Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello everybody. Welcome into the Fantasy Pros Dynasty Football Podcast.
I'm Ryan Warmley, joined as always by Pat Fitzmorris and
by Scott Bogman Fellas. Last week we gathered for the
running back rankings and tiers. Today we are talking wide
receiver rankings and tiers. It's going to be essentially the
same show we just had a week ago, but focused
on the receivers this time. This is the backbone of
(00:25):
most dynasty rosters. It is the position that you want
to be great at. It is a position that no
matter what format you're in, really it is very valuable
to have wide receivers who are great, especially the guys
at the top. So we're gonna run through a bunch
of tiers here and our rankings and kind of highlight
where Fits and Bogman might disagree, both with each other
and with the expert consensus rankings that you can find
(00:46):
at fantasypros dot com slash rankings. It's got all of
our twenty twenty five consensus rankings and tiers. You can
navigate to all of the different formats there, including our
Dynasty rankings as well. Guys, let's jump right in because
I think it's going to be a little bit of
a longer episode because there's so much to talk about
with wide receivers. Having said that, I don't know how
much there really is to talk about. In Tier one.
(01:08):
It's pretty straightforward. Jamar Chase is number one, Justin Jefferson
is number two. Ceed Lamb is number three. I think
for the most part, this is going to be the
consensus across the board. However, if you look at your guys' rankings,
there actually is some early disagreement. Bogman is in line
with these rankings. Fits you have a different player inside
(01:29):
your top three.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Melik Neighbors. Yeah, I mean it's it's a close call
for me, Melik Neighbors versus Ceed Lamb terrific players a
little bit of an age thing. Basically, I think Neighbors
can give us Cede Lamb type production Andy Swat three
years younger. So yeah, a little bit of an edge
to Neighbors for me. But I don't feel strongly about it,
(01:50):
And you know, maybe I should be more concerned that
Neighbors has yet to find his love connection at quarterback.
If you will, you know he's going to get by
away with Russell Wilson and Jackson Dart. And you know,
the guy who I would really love to see in
there to get Malik Neighbors jump started would be Jamis Winston.
I don't think Winston's going to make more than a
(02:11):
handful of starts if that this year, But I don't know,
We'll see. Maybe Jackson Dart can be the guy who
is the long term partner for Malik Neighbors. But I
do think Malik Neighbors has a really bright future based
on what we saw from him last year, when you know,
again quarterback was an issue for him.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Bogman, do you think there's a case to be made
for Neighbors or anybody else inside Tier one? Or do
you think that these three, Chase, Jefferson, and Lamb really
stand alone.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I mean, I honestly feel like there could be an
argument made for the entire next year in any one player. Honestly,
I feel like could slip in there. But I do
think that this is the way it needs to be.
These are the proven talents of the very top that
have done it for multiple years, even with different quarterbacks sometimes.
So yeah, I think this is pretty clear the top three.
(03:00):
I wouldn't have an argument for anyone else, but I
can understand it. I would listen to an argument for
any of the other guys in the next year to
be bumping against this tier, because I do think wide
receiver is fairly deep right now.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
I don't think you'll find anybody in the industry who
would have anybody other than Chase and Jefferson one and two.
If you're gonna move somebody out, it's it's Lamb, as
evidenced by what Fits has and just the fact that
he's third. But you know, Chase and Jefferson, I think,
by and large, even in that order is pretty consensus.
Chase one and Jefferson two. You might find some analysts
out there who have Jefferson ahead of Chase, but obviously
(03:35):
they're both pretty mega elite bagman. I want to ask
you kind of a follow up to a conversation Fitz
and I had on the Discord Show earlier this week
on the trade Block. We were presented with a potential
trade that somebody threw out and wanted to get our opinions.
I want to get your opinion three firsts, a twenty
twenty six first, a twenty twenty seven first, and a
twenty twenty eight first for Justin Jefferson. Now, this is
(03:58):
like technically a best ball league gets super flex, it
is full PPR. But in general, in a dynasty league,
is your next three first round picks probably you would
assume maybe coming from a contender, so maybe later in
the first round. Is that worth Justin Jefferson to.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
You, I think it's fair. What I say it's worth it,
I don't know. Probably. I think in most cases three
guys for one, specifically three first rounders for one is
going to work out. But there are many occasions where
it doesn't as well. So I would say it's a
(04:32):
fair deal. But if my team is good, I want Jefferson,
I want the good player. And Fitz brought this point
on one of the very first shows we've done, and
it is one of the foundations that you need to
remember when making a trade like this. You know, you
have to build in the waiting for these picks for
your team, So your trade isn't completed until twenty twenty eight, right, Like,
(04:56):
you don't get the benefit until twenty twenty eight of
this trade. Maybe your twenty six pick hits and you're
already as good and now it's just you know, icing
on the cake. But maybe twenty six completely flames out. Now,
all I have for Justin Jefferson are my twenty seven
and twenty eight pick. Now, they gotta both be good
for me to even be close to value with Justin Jefferson.
(05:19):
So I think in most cases I want Jefferson. But
I would say that that is a pretty fair trade,
And I think, you know, it just depends on where
your team is at. If Justin Jefferson's the only good player,
go ahead and pull the trigger on something like that.
But if your team is good, I'm not trading him
just to get value.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
The reason I like the Jefferson side and that well, one,
I would assume that Jefferson is cementing like a super
team for this guy, the Jefferson stakeholders trading with. So
those picks are likely you know, one ten through one twelve,
probably for all three of those years. And so we're
talking about low first round picks, and Jefferson just gives
(05:57):
you so much value over average for his roster spot.
And I don't know if the value over average for
those three players, unless you really just knock it out
of the park on all three of those picks, is
going to exceed the value over average that Jefferson gives you.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
We talk about a lot like player values are not additive, right,
You could give enough players that technically and the trade
value chart once that's better, But the fact that all
this value is coming from one individual player on your
roster is more meaningful and more valuable in the long run.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Only so many starting spots.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
But yeah, exactly, and what would be I'm curious we'll
move off to your one after this, because again there's
no real debate here, especially with these top two. For
one of these guys like Chaser Jefferson fits for you
as somebody who doesn't want to move off of them, obviously,
what would be enough if you were presented with the
trade and let's say you're like an average team. You're
not like an obvious desperate need and rebuild, You're not
an obvious contender, You're just kind of a general team.
(06:54):
What would be enough for you to say, Okay, I
am now willing to move off of Jamar Chase in
a dynasty league.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, we could definitely start talking turkey if I got
a quality starting quarterback back in a super flex league,
because there are five quarterbacks who I have with higher
super flex values than Jamar Chase and Justin Jefferson. So
you know those five are Jaden Daniels, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen,
Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts. But you know, like Drake May,
(07:23):
Patrick Mahomes, Herbert Stroud, those guys aren't too far off.
So maybe send me one of those guys plus a
you know, a draft pick. I'm willing to entertain that bagman.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I mean, I think I think Fitz is right. I
think it would have to be like you said, it
would have to be someone from the top tier of
any position plus draft picks. I think that's kind of
what you're looking at. So like Rock Bowers and a pick,
you know, a quarterback and a pick, Drake London in
a pick, you know what I mean. Like, I think
(07:56):
that's kind of what it looks like if you're trading off.
Because I'm not trading and this is the real issue
that I would have with a trade like Justin Jefferson
for three first rounds, right, It's that I'm not trading
a guy, an elite guy like that. In most cases
for something unknown, I have to get a proven commodity
back and hope for something that can push the trade
(08:18):
over the top in my value, and even if it doesn't,
I already have that floor, so that's what it would take.
But in most scenarios, I want to hold on to Jefferson.
It's on the rebuild only where I'm trading either one
of the Jefferson or Chase any top tier guy like that.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
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draft with the mock Draft Simulator at fantasypros dot com
slash mock. All right, guys, let's get into tier two.
This is six names. I already mentioned the guy the top,
Milik Neighbors because fits has him in aside. His top
three after Neighbors is Puka Nakua, I'm and Ross Saint Brown,
Brian Thomas, Nico Collins, and Drake London. Now, Bogman, you
(09:16):
said that you could see a case for anybody in
Tier two as a Tier one guy. Is that something
where you're making the case where they could end up
there by the end of the year, or would you
consider any of these guys right now in the Tier.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
One No, I wouldn't consider them right now, but I
do think that they could end up at the end
of the sea.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Who's the most likely you think to get there?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
I think it is Neighbors, right like I and I
think Puka. We've already seen do it, so wouldn't be
shocking if Puka is there. Honestly, any of these guys.
Brian Thomas has such a huge year now, maybe Travis
Hunter makes him better, right Like, there's some possibility for that.
Nico loses Tank Dell and could get an absurd amount
(09:59):
of targets, so you can you can see all of
these but one hundred and seventy targets last season for
Leak Neighbors with an improved quarterback situation. No matter who's
back there, I think it is Malik Neighbors. I think
he's the knocking on the door right now, and Fitz
already has them.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
That fit if I remove Neighbors from the equation, because
you already have him there, and Bogman has him the
top this tier. Who's the guy that you think has
the best chance of being Tier one a year from now?
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Brian Thomas.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, BTJ had what eighty seven catches, almost thirteen hundred yards,
ten touchdowns as of rookie did that missing Trevor Lawrence
for a while. Now there's probably going to be an
overall offensive upgrade for the Jaguars with Liam Cohen coming in.
And like BTJ played hurt for a while in the season.
I forget exactly what the injury was. It was some
(10:48):
sort of upper body injury, I believe, but like that
was bothering him for two or three weeks at least,
just man like seeing was believing with that guy in
year one, so it would not surprise me if he
took the next step, you know, this year or next.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I think what is interesting about this tier and why
it is that the correct names to be in this
tier is that I'm looking through these six and I
wanted to kind of as an exercise, throw two different
trio combinations at you guys and say, hey, you're loaded
in dynasty at receiver. Would you rather have your three
starters be you know, these three or these three out
(11:22):
of this tier, and I couldn't come up with a
good combination that I thought would be one side or
the other because they're all really really good. Like Eddy
Trio obviously would be you know, insane out of these guys.
But you know, in consensus it's Neighbors, Nikua Saint Brown
and then Thomas Collins London. But I think you can
make a really compelling case that you'd if you might
(11:43):
maybe even rather have the trio of Brian Thomas, Nico
Collins and Drake London ahead of that other trio. I
just think there's so many directions you could take this
tier that they're just all really really good players. Like
I think Nico Collins, if he stayed healthy last year,
it might already be at the top of this tier
and borowline Tier one with what he was doing when
he was healthy with c J. Stroud last season. Drake London,
(12:04):
we are really excited about him, with Michael Pennock Junior
and just the peppering of targets we saw late last
year and just the talent of London. Obviously, Brian Thomas Jr.
Had a historic rookie season. Neighbors did as well. Phoka's
done it before.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Let me ask this one real quick? Who would drop
out of this like? Not that we're adding someone up
to the next tier, FITZI, and you get to go
first since I made up this question, So who drops
out of this tier? If you have to pick one
instead of one going up? Who would come down? And
Ross Saint Prown And that's because he's losing Ben Johnson
(12:41):
and just the ever changing landscape of the Lions coaching
staff here, huh.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
I mean not just that Boggs.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
But in twenty twenty three, Amnra averaged twenty point seven
PPR Fantasy points per game. Last year he dropped to
eighteen point six, which is still great, you know, even
losing two points one fantasy points a game, still high
level production without question. But like Amana, also fell off
in targets. He averaged ten point three and twenty twenty
(13:09):
three only eight point three last year, and I think
the emergence of Jamison Williams had a lot to do
with it. And for am and Rod to get within
two Fantasy points per game of where he was in
twenty twenty three, he needed a career high twelve touchdowns,
which was you know, aided by Jared Goff's career high
TD rate of six point nine percent and Amen Rock
cut eighty one point six percent of his targets, which
(13:32):
is just an outrageously high catch position, nine percentage points
higher than where he had been the previous two seasons.
So I mean Amonro had like sort of juiced production
and still was two points down from where he had
been two seasons ago. And you know, if he doesn't
have that same sort of high touchdown rates and doesn't
have that high catch rate, like maybe he slips another
(13:53):
notch this year.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
I think that in such a great response, by the
way I come up with the question off the cuff
and listen to FITs' response was incredible, by the way,
awesome I think to to me, it's I think outside
of neighbors, because we've already kind of talked about him
at Nausium here, I think it's Pooka who would be
But I think he's also the most likely outside of
(14:17):
neighbors to move up and down. So I just think
it's the injury stuff. It's the injuries from BYU. Then
he comes out, you know, Rookie of the Year, amazing season,
and then banged up again. In his second season, So
if it's another injury playing season, I think we start
to put that tag on him. You might be able
to even say the same thing about Nico after missing
(14:38):
five games.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Also, what if we get like two years of DeVante
Adams in you know on the round?
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah, yeah, that those are the two for me, Luca
and Amra, where again I still really like them both.
Of course, yes we have them inside top ten, but
if you're going to make the case against somebody like
amen Ra is the first name I go to and
Pukea is the second.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
So Pooka had the highest receiving grade in the league
according to PFAF. But you know, he missed his games.
It's been in his past, and he's talking about wanting
to retire at thirty and all that stuff. So there's
like built in things with poke I feeling.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
I mean, not that I want to just blow past
all the best players because they're super fun to talk about,
but again, kind of similar to Tier one, this is
a very clear Tier two, especially with your guys' rankings,
the order is different, and obviously, like I said, fits
his neighbors a little bit higher, but this is four
through nine essentially for you guys, nobody in this group.
Do you have outside the top nine? Nobody below this
(15:37):
in consensus? Do you have inside this group? This is
very set in terms of kind of those next six
names after that elite trio at the top. So the
top nine is pretty straightforward and there's really not too
many arguments. Any of these guys you're gonna be very
happy with taking, Like they're all excellent second round picks
in a startup draft like this. This is a very
(15:58):
very great group to be working from, and you should
be really happy if you have two of these guys
like you are set very well at the position. So
I think we can move on to tier three, where
it starts to get a little more interesting. This is
largely you guys are in line with consensus. Again a
little bit different order, but this is the same group
for the most part. It runs from Wide Receiver ten
(16:18):
through Wide Receiver fifteen. It's Lad mcconkee, AJ Brown, Jackson
Smith and Jigbu, Garrett Wilson, Marvin Harrison, Junior T. Higgins.
And unlike the previous two tiers, this tier has a
lot of different archetypes in it. You have the guy
who is starting to get a little bit older in
AJ Brown, not that he's old, he's still very, very,
very good, but starting to get on the older end,
to the point where in Dynasty maybe you go towards
(16:39):
the younger guys. You also have the guys who are unproven,
like Marvin Harrison Junior, who you know is coming off
of what is generally a good season for a rookie,
but definitely a disappointment relative to our expectations for year
one from him. They are in the same tier here.
We have a guy like Garrett Wilson who's never had
a good quarterback situation but has still given you a
high floor. A guy like Higgins who's really talented, but
he's number two in his offense and has it in
(17:00):
stuff as well. JACKA. Smith the JIGBA finally had his
breakout last year. Lad McConkie obviously a great rookie season.
So again, a lot of guys that are bringing different
things to the table in this group fits. I'll start
with you what player stands out to you most that
you want to highlight.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Here, T Higgins, let's talk about him like I'm lowest
on it. Well, I'm only one spot below ec R
and Bagman at wide receiver sixteen, and I might be
too low on him just looking at the potential of
this Cincinnati offense this year, especially in light of how
bad the Cincinnati defense could be. And uh, you know,
(17:37):
I was saying this on another show this week, like
if I ever see a Vegas total under fifty on
a Bengals game this year, like that is such a
quick auto bet for me. I don't know if we'll
see one. Like every game should be a shootout. So
I'm not really worried about the presence of Jamar Chase,
Like I think there's plenty to go around, especially since
(17:58):
it's kind of a skinny target tree in Cincinna. Anyway,
it's it's Chase Higgins and then you know Chase Brown.
That's that's kind of it. A little bit of gas sicky,
you know, the occasional shot played at josavash I.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
Like Yos, but he's buried.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, So and then if like anything were to ever
happen to Jamar Chase, I think there have been five
games since Chase came too the league that T Higgins
played without Jamar Chase, and in those games he's like
pro rated over a full season. It would come out
to like, I forget what he was at five hundred
(18:34):
and forty one. I think he averaged basically one hundred
yards a game in those games where there was no
Jamar Chase, So a lot of upside for T.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Higgins still young.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I know people don't like the fact that he's not
the number one receiver in his own offense, and he's
missed five games in each of the last two years,
has had some hamstring issues. But I'm still pretty bullish
on Higgins, even though I'm actually behind ECR.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
Higgins is somebody that I tend to avoiding dynasty just
because there's more uncertainty with him than other guys. Having
said that, there's uncertainty with a lot of players in
this group, whether it's because of the quarterback situation, or
because we haven't seen them do it yet, or any
number of reasons. Bagman, when you think about T Higgins
back end of year three, it aligns with your rankings.
(19:19):
Does that feel right to you? I?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah, I'll say this for this tier, though I haven't fractured,
and I kind of have this third tier just eliminated
because I have the top three guys here in ladd
ag Brown and JSN in between neighbors. So my tier
goes from neighbors down to JSN, and then I split Wilson, Higgins,
and Harrison into a deeper tier of the guys below them.
(19:45):
So for me, I see Ladd, ag Brown and JSN
is kind of I've already seen them do it. I've
seen them prove it. I believe in them. The other
three guys, you know, Higgins is great, he is a
very He's not a wide receiver two on his team
is the wide receiver B. That's kind of how I
would explain him more is that, yes, he's the second
(20:07):
option and is maybe his upside is capped by Jamar Chase,
but he's still really good. And then the offenses are
like Marvin Harrison just didn't show it, and he added
a bunch of weight this offseason to try to get
off those jams and make himself open. Is that going
to work? I think that's a question. And if Justin
Fields works in New York, that could be running that
ball a ton, right, So he is still the number one,
(20:29):
but that's going to turn into a primary run first offense.
And Garrett Wilson maybe capped a lot day Flowers you
know what I mean, Like, I think Jay Flowers is awesome,
but what I love him in Cincinnati over Baltimore one
hundred percent. So you know, I just think that there
are there's issues with those three guys, whereas the other
three guys, Like I don't know, is Sam Donald really
gonna kill JSN? I don't think so. I think he's
(20:51):
a possession guy. So the other guys, I'm not afraid of.
Those guys all have little nitpicks.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I want to ask about a guy that you didn't
mention there so you're not afraid of him. McConkey, who
fit says number ten, which is a line of consensus
you have n't at eleven, so essentially the same spot.
And you just said kind of looped into that tier
ahead if you were tearing them just you individually. Are
we I don't want to say we're out over our
skis on lad, but are we overreacting to a very
strong rookie season despite the fact that he plays in
(21:19):
a run heavy offense. You know, he said some he's
the type of player who, like, even if he doesn't
miss time, just like looks kind of banged up a
lot when he's coming off the field plays through stuff,
and I'm more trying to play Devil's advocate than making
a case. Think too soon for him to be in
the top eleven, top ten.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I think it is, and I think the rankers have
shown us that it is right, and that is why
he is in that third tier where you wouldn't put
him up there. I just I believe in him. I
saw him at Georgie. I think he's outstanding, and I
think adding a guy like Trey Harris, even though it
is a target, I think it is better for Ladd.
I think his connection with Justin Herbert, because he's such
a good deep threat, is going to open up more
(21:59):
things than an I think Gadsden could also end up
doing that for the Chargers as well. So I just
think that Ladd is the number one for the foreseeable
future for the Chargers, and I kind of think that's
already locked in so to me, same thing with JSN
as well. I think he's already the number one, and
I'm pretty locked in there now that they traded DK.
So I think those guys just have a lot of
(22:22):
value here.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Yeah, if I if I can chime in on Ladd
worm like I I share some of your concerns for redraft. Actually,
I'm much more in the Lad for dynasty than for
redraft because I think Ladd is just a phenomenal player.
Two point five to nine yards per route run as
a rookie, that's just amazing. And then, of course, the
last look we got at Ladd mcconkeye last season, one
(22:45):
hundred and ninety seven yards in the Chargers wild card
loss to the Texans. Like, the Texans did not have
a bad defense and they could not guard that dude
in that game. It was really impressive. So the thing though,
like Ladd was twenty sixth in the league in targets
last year, and that was with the Chargers actually being
(23:08):
the tenth run heaviest team in the league. I would
I would put an even many bet down that the
Chargers are going to be top five in run heaviness
this year after signing Najie Harris and drafting Amaran Hampton,
like they went to run the crap out of the ball.
Speaker 4 (23:23):
They have signaled that.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
So do we really think Lad is going to do
any better than twenty sixth in targets, especially with as
Boggs mentioned, they had Trey Harris, Ronde Gadsden was like
this revelation in OTAs.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
So the defense is going to play as good as
it did last season.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
So that's true.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
They might be more shootouts, but I mean they did average,
Like they gave up what like seventeen points a game,
lowest in the league.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
So they were so good last year. Yeah, it was
such a big turnaround from the year before too.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
But I so, yeah, I don't think we're going to
see Ladd fully flower maybe until the offense of circumstances
are a little different, but who knows. He might be
playing under Greg Roman for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Do you fit se So you have lad tenth and
you have Marvin Harrison Junior eleventh, which is a few
spots higher than Bogman. Do you see a wide gap
between ten and eleven or do you view those two
players as close in your dynasty rankings?
Speaker 4 (24:18):
It's close.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Both of those guys have their annoying issues that they're
dealing with right now. With with mcconka, it's the run
heaviness of the offense, and with Harrison, I just worry
that it is an oil and water match with Kyler
Murray that that is my concern there. Like I I'm
sold on the talent, like I watched the sky It
played Ohio State, Like I have no doubt Marvin Harrison
(24:40):
Junior is really good. And I'm not not really worried
about the David Boston thing Bogs where he beefs up
and turns into a you know, professional body, could be,
could be.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
But Maserati Marv that's his nickname, right.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I mean, I still really like the player. I just
don't know if I like him with Kyler Murray.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
So in this tier and we're about to move off it,
but I just want to highlight that AJ Brown is
kind of the guy that Bogman is the high man
on of the three of us. And that's largely because
Bogman is a very win now guy, and you know
he's a J Brown still super super good, so the
kind of age gaps also a baby.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
I think he's going to cry his way out of
Philly and go somewhere at the end of his career
just to pad his stats. I think that's what he's
gonna want.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
He's really good, though, man, and if he's really good
to Philly was far and away the run heaviest team
in the league last year, and if they run least,
it's only going to help AJ Brown.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
So Bogman is the high guy. I'm Brown fits of
the three of us, is the high guy in Harrison.
I don't have rankings here, but I would like to
kind of plant my flag that I want to be
the high guy in Garrett Wilson, like paired up with
his college quarterback. I'm expecting, actually, even if they are
a run heavy team in general, I'm expecting Garrett Wilson
to have his best year yet and to look like
a real Tier two Dynasty wide receiver by this time
(25:51):
next year.
Speaker 3 (25:51):
Well, Fitz hates him, so talk to Fit about it.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
As all the way down at wide receiver fifteen, so
I don't know what he's thinking before I eat to
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(26:58):
a bigger one. I'll quickly run through the names in it,
and then we'll highlight someone's that standout. So this goes
from wide receiver sixteen to wide receiver twenty five. Travis Hunter,
Tetoroa McMillan, Rashi, Rice DeVante, Smith, Zay Flowers, Roma Dunze,
DJ Moore, Jordan Addison, DK Metcalf Jalen Waddle. This is
the group where we finally get into not only some
(27:20):
disagreements with ECR, but some disagreements between the two of you.
I believe the widest gap of a disagreement between the
two of you so far through these rankings is Ted McMillan.
Speaker 4 (27:30):
Fitz.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
You've got him at wide receiver fourteen, so that would
be up with those other names we were just talking
about in tier three. Bogwin, you've got him down at
wide receiver twenty six. So that's a pretty sizable gap.
If we were going strictly based on these tiers and rankings,
that would actually be neither. If you have him in
tier four, Fits would be tier three and Bogwin will
be Tier five. Again, we're just going with the new
miracle of these these rankings. Bogman, let me start with
(27:52):
the negative side with you. Why are you lower on
TET Well, first of all, I have a tier of
thirteen to twenty six, okay the way, so it's a
huge tier for me.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
It's thirteen players deep. But I do have Ted at
the bottom. I just want to see him do it right.
That's really what the thing is. He has all of
this opportunity to be a number one in this offense
and to be a stud. So I still have him
as a high end wide receiver three, low end wide
receiver two, somewhere in that range. But I have him
(28:23):
where he could, you know, go all the way up
to the number one wide receiver two to me, So
I do have him in a tier with that group.
I just want to see him do it first. That's
really it. Because coming into the league, Like if you
ask me between Rome of Dunesay and Ted McMillan, I
want Rome like easy. If you ask me between Rome
Worthy and Ted, I want Worthy easy. So I do
(28:46):
like t Maac. I just don't like him his skill
set as much as I like some of these other
guys coming into the league. So I do have him
a little bit lower. But the spot is beautiful. It's
absolutely gorgeous because everything you said about since he fits
right like they're gonna have to play shootouts Carolina is too.
They should be much improved from last year, but last
year they were historically one of the worst defenses in
(29:09):
the history of the league. They gave him more rushing
yards than any defense ever. So I think they are
going to be bad and Carolina's gonna have to play
point for point, so that's all really good. Like the
opportunity is awesome. That's why I have him in this tier,
albeit at the bottom. But I just want to see
him do it first, that's all.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I am definitely closer to Fitz's ranking of wide receiver
fourteen for Teed McMillan. I like the player as a
prospect that sounds like better than you did, Bogman, And
also like the opportunity is awesome in this offense, right,
especially if Bryce Young is the guy we saw in
the second half, Like, I just don't I don't see
if he is still that guy. I don't see how
the opportunity is just going to be so so good
(29:49):
for a tech that he would have to be really
below what I expect of him as a player to
not take advantage of the volume that I think.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
Bryce Young is bad again.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Yeah, yeah, I'm saying if Bryce Young is what he
was second half of last year, then I don't see
a way that it doesn't work. That could end up
not being the case, of course, but I just don't
think it's ever a bad idea.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Face should get solved quickly, though, Like you.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
I just don't think it's a bad idea to invest
in top ten receivers in good landing spots, like in general, like,
I'd rather be higher on those guys a year in
and year out than lower in re draft leagues. It
feels like the lowest you ever draft them is their
rookie season. They are always more valued the next year.
And I just like I want to be in the
business of being above consensus on a guy like Teed McMillan,
where he went in the draft, what his landing spot
(30:30):
is fits. You obviously have him there already.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
I do great prospect and goes into a terrific situation.
I mean, Boggs, if you want to see it first,
why are you necessarily putting Romo Dunesay ahead of Tat McMillan,
Because we haven't really seen it from odunsday either.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I don't think we saw a fair shake from odun
saying last year though.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Because yeah, it wasn't necessarily Rome's fault, but.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
We still It's the point I'm not sitting here saying
that Tet McMillan is definitely going to be at the bottom.
That's why I have in this tier right at the
end of the season, could I move him all the
way up to thirteen, fourteen, fifteen where you guys have
him one hundred percent? But I think winning now is
also being a little bit cautious on the rookies, right,
Like it's it's a little bit cautious on these guys.
(31:15):
These guys can pay off huge, so you do want
to take the risk.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Of course, if you hate him, and the commenters will
reflect that, and.
Speaker 3 (31:22):
That's fine, that doesn't bother me at all. But like,
I don't know, taking him ahead of the floor of
some of these guys like Smith and Waddle and Addison,
I can't do it. So, yeah, McMillan's gonna be I'm
gonna be low man on mcmill.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
Not only if you have him at the top of
this tier, you have Tet ahead of guys in the
tier above. Garrett Wilson and t Higgins are both lower
than Tet for you on your rankings.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, and blasphemy, I could second guess that one for sure.
Those three are are pretty hard to parse. But you know,
I probably give the youth advantage to McMillan there.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
So how about the other rookie that went inside the
top ten Travis Hunter. He's sixteenth in ECR. He's seventeenth
for Fits, twenty fifth for Bogwin. So this is another
one where Bogman is lower than Fits is. I don't
even know, like I tend to feel like I'm the
guy who's fading Hunter. I don't even know what ranking
I would put on him personally. I just like he's
(32:20):
one more than anybody else. I need to see it
to believe it, not to believe the talent, but just
to believe what the usage is gonna be. And I
think I'm too cowardly to be investing in him as
a top sixteen dynasty wide receiver until I see for
sure how Jacksonville is actually gonna use him. Bogman, you
are once again the low man on him.
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Yeah, and listen, this is Fits screaming in my mind
the thing that fits as the point that he has made.
It's probably overblown at this point, but it still is true. Like,
what if he's just better as a corner than a whiteout,
would they move him or at least play him more
at corner and maybe split him up at wide receivers.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
So just the.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Realm of possibilities for Travis Hunter is endless. He could
be better than Brian Thomas and immediately be a wide receiver. One,
he could be so bad at wide receiver they need
to put him at corner. Like what I think is
gonna end up happening is he's probably not as good
as Brian Thomas, but he's a really good wide receiver. Two.
That's probably what we're going to see with him. But
there's a lot going on there.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, fits, I mean, there was like a report I
forget who said it, but I saw somebody there day
was saying that some of the Jacksonville guys were talking about,
like the usage is going to be very different game
to game for Hunter, like depending on where he's more
needed in terms of the matchups on defense versus offense.
If I'm building up my dynasty roster, I don't want
(33:45):
that kind of uncertainty. It's in in a different way
than I was saying talking with uncertainty with T Higgins,
but again in a different way, but a similar type
of there is uncertainty there. I just don't want to
mess with that. As early as you would have to
take him in a startup draft or had to him
in rookie drafts. In May you are, you know, more
bullish here with him at wide receiver seventeen.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, and it makes me look like a windsock because,
as Bogman said, I have been, you know, kind of
sounding this alarm about like are we sure that Travis
Hunter is going to be a wide receiver for the
long haul? And I am not so sure. So for me,
actually there is a gap between that Tedoroe McMillan, Garrett Wilson, T.
Higgins tier and then I've got Travis Hunter at the
(34:28):
top of Tier four, which is like a big fifteen
player tier For me, that goes from like Travis Hunter
to George Pickens because I do have that fear. But
at the same time, if he does stick with wide
receiver or if he does wind up being this freak
who plays a lot of wide receiver and cornerback and
really is the showhe of Tani of the NFL, Like
(34:50):
I mean, this is a guy who could potentially work
his way into Tier one at some point, So I
don't want to ignore that possible outcome because that is
in his range of outcomes. This guy is just a
freakishly talented player. But at the same time, yeah, there
is some trepidation about what the role is going to be.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
And twenty five to me is pointed worm. It's look,
he has to be my first wide receiver three if
he's on my roster, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (35:20):
If Brian Thomas Junior doesn't take a step back fits,
do you think Travis Hunter can still be Tier one,
because it's gonna be really hard for the same team
to have two receivers who are both Dynasty like Brian
times Unter we're talking about, could be Tier one a
year from now. You already have him Top five, so
Travis Hunter is also Tier one. That's like two top
(35:40):
five or six Dynasty wide receivers on the same in
the same offense. Do you see that as an actual
possible outcome or does Brian thomas.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Defense is similar decensis By the way.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Yeah, it's not a great defense, but still like, yeah,
I mean, maybe one of them could get into like
a low end wide receiver one, but as far as
being like a true year one wide receiver, where right
now we've only got what less than half a dozen
guys on that tier, Yeah, I mean, like Travis Hunter
could get there eventually, but he would probably need to
be decoupled from Brian Thomas Junior.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Most of these other names in this tier, which, by
the way, I think is a tier that's really important
to get right. Like everybody kind of knows what to
expect out of those first three tiers. I think getting
tier four and tier five right in your startup draft,
in your trades this offseason is a real key area
to really reap those benefits moving forward or struggle if
you get it wrong. A lot of the names you
(36:34):
guys do have him in a different order, but it's
like you're pretty close to each other. The one where
there's the widest gap that we haven't mentioned already is
Ze Flowers. This time it's the reverse. Fits is the
guy who's a little lower. Bogman has him up at
wide receiver seventeen. Fits at wide receiver twenty four. He's
wide receiver twenty. So kind of splitting the difference in
the consensus rankings, Fits, I'll start with you this time
as the low guy on Za, Why do you have
(36:55):
him down at the back end of the wide receiver
two rage as opposed to more that middle of that
range where Bogman does.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Yeah, I mean I like Zay.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
I think he's worth the first round pick the Ravens
spent on him in twenty twenty three. I just think
the nature of I think as long as he's on
the Ravens, he is going to be volatile week to
week just because of how much they like to run
the ball. You know, maybe, well, Derek Henry's not going
to be around for the entirety of Jay Flower's career,
but they're going to be run heavy. They are the
(37:24):
Ravens after all. And I think there were eight games
last year where Zay had six or fewer targets. That's
just how it goes with Baltimore.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
For me, it's it's I like Zay because of the
crazy high floor that he has, and he is a
free agent in twenty seven. I would like to think
that the Ravens would pay a guy like Zay and
keep him around because he's fit so well. But you know,
I don't think wide receivers are a complete priority, so
he could end up going somewhere with a much better
(37:54):
passing offense in a couple of years as well.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
My biggest knock against Day for fantasy, and again, I
love him as a real life player. I'm very glad
the Ravens drafted him in the first round the year
they did. But for fantasy purposes, if I had to
set the over under on seasons in his career in
Baltimore where he has double digit receiving touchdowns, I'll set
it at one and a half. Just because he might
have one year where breaks a few long ones. I
(38:16):
don't think he's getting two like. I just think they
do not use him in that way. He needs to
break long touchdowns to score. I think he can catch
a lot of passes, and I think we're maybe even
slightly underrating the targets and catches that he can have
in his best years. But I think fantasy managers tend
to also underrate the fact that the touchdowns I just
(38:38):
don't think are ever gonna come. And it's gonna be
really hard for him to take a step forward from
where he's ranked without that red zone usage, and I
just don't see it coming.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
Yeah, Lamar likes throwing in the middle of the field,
and when he gets close to the goal line, it
seems like it's always the tight ends.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
It's the tight ends or they want to run the ball.
It is just very they do not use their receivers
in that way. And if they are going to use
their receivers, and it's likely to be Shaw Bateman or
this season maybe DeAndre Hopkins like Flowers, this is so
fee He's gonna have to grow.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
With Lamar to get double digit touchdowns there and also
stay healthy when they're both out.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Let's go to the next tier here. Actually, first, I
want to let everybody know about our new jersey giveaway.
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Pros YouTube channel right now, drop a comment below on
(39:32):
any video and that is it. We will be announcing
a winner right here on the channel, so make sure
to turn on those notifications so you can know when
new videos are up and to claim your prize. Tier
five guys we've got from Wide Receiver twenty six to
Wide Receiver thirty six and the names are Terry McLaurin,
Xavier Worthy, Chris Olave, Jamison Williams, and Mecha Agbuka George Pickens,
(39:52):
Tyreek Hill, Davante Adams, Mike Evans, Brandon Ayuk, and Jerry Judy.
A lot more disagreement here. The later, you know, further
you get into their rankings, it's inherently going to be
a little bit more disagreement because there's not as many
sure things in this group. To kind of stick with
the rookie theme that we had in the last year,
Mega Buka is somebody that you guys are pretty wide
apart on. My guess is that it's just strictly based
(40:14):
on the landing spot, because I know you guys both
liked him as a prospect prior to the NFL Draft,
but I want to hear your thoughts to kind of
make sure that that is correct. Fits you are higher
on a Buka. You've got him at wide receiver twenty three,
which is seven spots ahead of consensus, So you're not
worried about the landing spot.
Speaker 4 (40:29):
No.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
I just feel like he's a rock solid prospect and
he's going to, like doesn't have a clear path to
one hundred targets in his rookie year, but I think
that path is going to clear up pretty quickly. Like
Evans and Chris Godwin are probably in the back half
of their careers. I don't really fear Jalen McMillan as
a guy who's going to steal targets from Buka. Just
(40:51):
really like the player and like Bogs or Worm for instance.
I have him ranked one spot higher than Zay Flowers.
Who would you rather have in Dynasty?
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Would rather have a Bucca? Yeah, I'm with you, Bogman.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Uh Yeah. For me, it's just the you know, how
long does it take to get him gone? Because I
do think he's awesome. He could he might already be
the best wide receiver there right Like that is definitely
within the realm of possibility. Maybe Mike Evans is old
this year, maybe this is the first year we see it,
but we still have Mike Evans, we still have Chris Godwin.
I'm over three year window guys, so he's more of
(41:25):
a you know, low end wide receiver three than a
high end wide receiver.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
To let me ask you this, Bogman, because you mentioned
being like a three year window guy, so you tend
to be more on board with the older guys. I
want to ask about two names here that are back
to back in consensus. Who are both older Tyrie Kill
and DeVante Adams. You guys are both lower than consensus
on DeVante Adams, which obviously I would imagine is driven
by the age, but you are actually above consensus on
(41:49):
Tyrie Kill despite his also age. He's only two years
younger than Adams, so I actually think it's more like
a year and a half. But I'm curious why with
one of them you kind of have your typical approach
of care so much about as I want to win now,
but the other one you seem to be lower on.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Yeah, I mean, I think Davante has one more year,
Like I think, I think he only wants to play
one more year. So maybe I'm wrong, but I think
that's like for him and Stafford in that offense. I
kind of feel like, if Stafford decides this is it,
I think Tay might just be like, yeah, that's it
for me too. I don't want to, you know, play
with another young QB. And I'm not following Aaron Rodgers
around anymore. I think I might just be done. So
(42:26):
Tyreek has a thousand kids to feat. He said he
was gonna finish at thirty. I do think he's going
to play longer but also I think the aging effects
of a guy like Tyreek, outside of that risk thing
that Deepak told us about that may never get better.
But I do think that, you know, he just needs
fewer receptions to still make an impact. That speed hasn't
really gone anywhere. Are the injuries going to creep up? Yes,
(42:49):
but I think it's like maybe two or three more
seasons of Tyreek, whereas with Devonte could be at any point.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
He's just it's your lower than consensus on both of them,
but you are higher on on Tyreek than DeVante, just
like bog Is.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
Yeah, same thing, just worried about the age. How much
how much more are you going to get out of
those guys.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
A couple other names in this tier that you guys
are very wide apart on. I want to save the
biggest gap for the end of this tier the last
name of this year, though you also do have a
big gap on it. That's Jerry Judy and this one
fits his higher. He's got a wide receiver twenty nine,
Bogman down at wide receiver thirty eight. Bogmin's a very
close to consensus, just a couple spots lower. Fits you
are well ahead of consensus. By seven spots. Why do
(43:27):
you like Jerry Judy this year without our beloved Jamis
Winston in Cleveland?
Speaker 2 (43:32):
Yeah, I understand, I mean so yeah it was. He
did put up by far his best numbers last year
with Jamis Winston at quarterback. He averaged better than one
hundred yards a game in Winston starts. But he was
actually strangely good in the game started by the other
Browns quarterbacks who weren't named Deshaun Watson, like he was
the only Watson was the only quarterback who Judy didn't
(43:55):
work with last year. So I'm it's justly optimistic that
even though the Browns quarterback situation looks pretty grotesque this year,
you know, Flacco might get a few starts, which would
certainly be good for Judy because Flacco is such a
reckless downfield thrower late in his career. But you know,
you're not going to be as excited if he's getting
(44:17):
starts with Dylan Gabriel or Shitto or Sanders in their
rookie seasons, or certainly Kenny Pickett.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
But I don't know.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
I was just so impressed by the fifth year breakout
Judy had, and I know that maybe we should be
wary of fifth year breakouts, but man over twelve hundred
yards and he's just a good route runner.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
He's really good after the catch.
Speaker 2 (44:38):
So yeah, like wide receiver twenty nine, I feel like
it isn't too aggressive, but maybe it is relative to
ECR and Bogman.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Yeah, Boggs, you've got him. Like I said, basically a
line with ECR just a couple spots lower.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, I look I like Jerry Judy right like, I
think what we saw last year was awesome, But Jerry
Judy is wide receiver. Kyle Pitts right like, he's fetch.
We've been trying to make it happen and it just
hasn't happened. So you know, his first year over one
thousand yards, he was way better with Jamis Winston. This offense,
(45:13):
I think this offense, it's not just Joe Flacco. And
this is why I like Judkins And we've talked a
lot about Dylan Sampson here as well. Right is where
this whole offense is going to have to restructure and
find a new format. They cannot pass as much as
they did last season. They're not built for it. So
I think what you're going to see from Cleveland is
(45:34):
they want to aggressively run the ball early, which is
just going to make most of Judy's production late when
they're losing in that garbage time, which those stats count too.
And Flacco's great at him, so maybe it will work,
but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
All right, two more names that I want to hit
on in this tier. One of them is Xavier Worthy,
which you guys don't disagree with each other on, but
you both have not only higher the consensus, both of
you would have him in the tier above the one.
You both have him ahead of Rashi Rice fits just
by one spot and Bogman by a handful of spots.
So Fitz, I just want to kind of quickly hear.
We talked a little bit about this on the Discord
(46:10):
Show as well, But why do you have Worthy ahead
of Rashi Rice?
Speaker 2 (46:14):
Worthy was on a one hundred catch pace over his
last eight games of last season if you count playoff
games and if you exclude Week eighteen, where none of
the starters played for Kansas City. So yeah, in his
last eight games fifty catches. Now I realized that was
sort of in the Rashi Rice role that was vacated
(46:35):
when Rice got hurt early in the year. But the
idea that Rice is going to go back into that role, sure,
I buy that, But it's not like Worthy is going
to like become the new Marquez Veldez Scantling of this offense,
who's just like running wind sprints downfield and never seeing
targets Like Worthy is not going away in this offense.
(46:56):
And I think it's entirely possible. He's the better player
than Rice, albeit a different sort of player and you know,
might also be less of a knucklehead.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Bogmin Why do you like Worthy better than Rice? Besides
the fact that he went to Texas.
Speaker 3 (47:11):
I mean, you know, all the stuff that that fits
you just said, and we talked about Worthy, you know,
on this channel before, and it's the finish that he
had with Patrick Mahomes was great, Specifically the super Bowl,
the last game they played together, was Worthy's best. So
I don't think they're going to forget that. And he's
three years younger than Rice, he's not coming off a
major injury, and he doesn't have suspension looming over his head.
(47:31):
So yeah, give me Worthy over Rice all day.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Okay, last name in this tier. This is the big one.
This is the largest discrepancy that you two have amongst
the tiers that we're going to be talking about today. Fits,
you have George Pickens wide receiver thirty one, which is
actually exactly the same as consensus. Bogman you have George
Pickens wide receiver nineteen, so twelve spots.
Speaker 4 (47:51):
Oh that's it. I thought Bogs had him ranked ahead
of Jamar Chase.
Speaker 3 (47:55):
No, not yet.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah, I'm sure heally needs to see a couple of
good games in Dallas that he'll and he'll vump him
up there. Let me quickly, I want to get fits
His take first because he's in line of consensus, so
I assume it'll be just kind of quick and align
with everybody else's that I want you to dive in
by with. So if it's why do you have, it's
exactly a line of consensus. Whyde is super thirty one?
Speaker 2 (48:13):
Yeah, I mean he is a complicated player to try
to tackle, because we know he's His on field behavior
can be erratic at times. He also makes some of
the craziest contested catches you'll ever see. So it's a
real mix back with him. But I actually like the
change of venue for him where he doesn't have to
be the lead receiver, maybe gets a little less defensive attention,
(48:36):
get some matchups against lesser cornerbacks, and uh, you know,
Dak Prescott is one of the better pure passers in
the NFL, so he's definitely getting a quarterback.
Speaker 4 (48:45):
Upgrade going to Dallas.
Speaker 2 (48:47):
So I'm I'm tentatively bullish on Pickens, But then again,
like he is a mercurial fellow, and uh, there's no
guarantee he doesn't go off the rails for something or other.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
At some point, I think it's Danny Heifitz at the
Ringer who says that if the field were like five
feet wider, or it might even be like a foot
wider on either end of the sidelines, that Pickens would
be the best wide receiver in football because he makes
so many of those crazy catches where he's just out
of balance by like six inches. Those are obviously a
really fun draw when you have them on your fantasy team,
(49:22):
to see these great circus catches getting you fantasy points.
Bagman Wide receiver nineteen obviously very high. This would put
him in the range based on consensus with guys like
Rashie Rice, Teed McMillan, and DeVonta Smith say, flowers well
ahead of where he is. Right now, what's going into
let me, let me clear the plant the paint, and
let you go to work. What's going into this ranking
(49:42):
for you?
Speaker 3 (49:43):
Okay, Well, look, I think there's a lot going on here.
Number one. I think the problems that George Pickens are
are attitude problems. They're not off the field arrest me issues, right,
So yeah, I think those things can get straightened out.
So I do think maturity is an enormous issue for him,
but I think he can get better, specifically on a
team where he knows, now I'm not the number one
(50:05):
ride receiver. Ceed Lamb is the best, one of the
best players in the league, so I don't think it's
very arguable for him. So he needs to calm down
about all that stuff. But we haven't seen him with
a fair shake. It's been Kenny Pickett and you know,
Mason Rudolph and the ghost of Russell Wilson as George
Pickens's number one quarterback here. These are awful options and
(50:28):
Arthur Smith offenses and he was the number one target there. Like,
I just think in a pass heavy offense with a
guy like Ceedee Lamb on the other side rolling, getting
coverage roll to him is going to afford George Pickens
so many opportunities. And I think the talent is there.
He's top twenty in like everything. He's top five in
a dot, he's top twenty in yards per rout run.
(50:50):
He's top like twenty five in yak like. He's good
with the ball in his hands if you're moving to
a pass heavy offense. I think he could be so
much like T Higgins with Jamar Chase in Dallas. I
think the talent's there. It's putting it all together. But
I do think it'll come together for him eventually, because
I do still think he's in that positive and I
still despise the trade that sent him to Dallas.
Speaker 1 (51:12):
It's his bogman swaying you at all.
Speaker 2 (51:15):
No, I mean, I think he's a mixed bag kind
of player, So I I.
Speaker 3 (51:19):
You can see the upside easy, but you can see
the downsoun absolutely So that makes him that makes the
floor the bottom could drop out. So I understand having
him ranked a little bit lower. I just don't think it.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
Will final tier that we're gonna be talking about here.
It's a big one, So get ready, I'm gonna read
through all the names, just so I've said them and
people can know the tiers. But if you want to
follow along more closely and not forget all the names
that I'm about to read, you can again find those
at fantasypros dot com slash rankings. It will just highlight
a couple of them in our conversation. But the names
are and this is wide receiver thirty seven to wide
receiver fifty three, so a very large tier. Luther Burden,
(51:51):
Chris Godwin, Ricky Piersoll, Jaden Reid, Josh Downs, Khalil Shakir
Courtland Sutton, Matthew Golden, Michael Pittman, Jaden Higgins, Calvin Lee,
Trey Harris, Deebo, Samuel Juwan Jennings, Kean Coleman, Jacoby Myers,
and Jalen McMillan. So we're not gonna talk about every
single name in detail, obviously, because we don't want to
be here for three hours. One name that I do
want to ask you guys about, and you both have
(52:13):
various connections given his college and now's NFL team, is
Matthew Golden, and he is somebody that I didn't really
target very aggressively in Rookie drafts. He wasn't my favorite
receiver in this draft. However, this is a first round
receiver who is paired with what I think is a
good quarterback in the NFL, and it's an offense that
(52:34):
I think is gonna throw more this year than last year,
assuming Jordan Love is actually healthy again. So I wonder
if ECR is forty four for him, you guys are
both higher, Like I feel like ECR forty four is
way too low for him, a dynasy just given those
two simple facts, first round wide receiver in the draft
paired with a good quarterback like that seems to be
(52:55):
enough that to me, she beans out of the top forty.
At least you guys both have him in the thirties.
Fits he's on your packers, what goes into this ranking
for you?
Speaker 4 (53:04):
So yeah, I'm ahead of ECR.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
I think ECR sometimes lags a bit on some of
the non first round Well, he was one of the
first round receivers, but maybe the guys who aren't the
top talents at wide receiver in this case the non
Tetorohne McMillan, Travis Hunter class. It's a mixed bag for
me on Golden and just We've talked about this a lot,
(53:26):
in the fact that the film guys, the evaluators like
Daniel Jeremiah and Dan Brugler and mel kiper Junior loved
Matthew Golden and all had him as a top fifteen
overall prospect in this draft, but the production profile kind
of scary, and guys who had the sort of production
(53:48):
profile that Golden head where he was like not even
a one year wonder, almost like a half year wonder
at Texas. And granted he had some great games down
the stretch, and some of them again really good defenses,
like the Georgia game. So I mean, I can see
the cases on both sides. It's just like I know
(54:08):
the guys who do modeling, and you know, like they
are sounding alarms about Matthew Golden's college production profile and
just saying, like the hit rates for guys who look
like him coming out of college have been terrible. So
that is the warning shot, I guess, and I just
I do expect it to be kind of a mixed
bag as far as like who is producing for the
(54:31):
Packers among the pass catchers, I think it's going to
be an ad hoc group where it's a different person
every week. So yeah, I'm sort of torn on Golden.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
For you, Bogman, He's up at wider Shever thirty one, who,
which is higher than anybody else in this tier, So
you are definitely buying into more of the film watcher
hype rather than some of the analytical maybe fading of him.
Speaker 3 (54:56):
Yeah, and this tier you can see it. I think
the only older guy that I'm above consensu on is
maybe Depot. I think the rest, it's all the younger guys.
So I'm it's back to regular Dynasty ranking once we
get down here. I'm looking for a future upside, not
guys that are going to pan out right now. But
I do think that Golden, you know, look, the upside
is high, like he could I think it's Zay Flowers right,
(55:18):
Like it's a run heavy team that's what it's going
to be for a while in Green Bay. But you
could get you know, he could be the number one
pretty convincingly in Green Bay if everything pans out this year.
But he could turn into what Jayden Reid is right
now as well. So I think there's I think the
floora is higher than a lot of the guys in
(55:38):
this tier for Matthew Golden because he's a first round pick.
It doesn't it's not the be all end all, Like
Fitz said, you know, he's closer to the back end
and the top end as a first round pick, but
he's still a first round pick, and that means, you know,
getting afore another opportunity. If it doesn't work in green Bay,
someone else is gonna say, oh, first round talent, look
at the speed, We're going to pick him up and
try him as well. So it just elongates his career,
(56:00):
whether he's you know, the performing that we think he
is or not. But I do think he's going to
be solid. I think there's a reason they took him
in the first round. I think he provides a number
one target for green Bay for a while. So yes,
I do want to roster Matthew Golden if I can.
Speaker 1 (56:14):
I want to ask you guys to each pick one
more name in this tier that you want to highlight,
and I'm going to ask you to not pick Keon
Coleman because everybody knows that you guys love Kean Coleman.
I'll just say the rankings that you have now in
ECRI's wide receiver fifty one Bogman's got in wide receiver
forty two fits as a wide receiver thirty five. They're
both well ahead of consensus. Everybody who's listening to the
show knows you guys love Kean Coleman. So besides Coleman,
(56:36):
and this can be somebody that you are higher than
consensus on or lower whatever direction do you want to
take it each Pick one name that you just really
kind of want to highlight and speak to before we
wrap up this tier fits you can go first.
Speaker 4 (56:47):
Can we go back to the Packers.
Speaker 2 (56:49):
Let's talk about Jayden Reid for a second, because I'm
anxious to hear what you guys think of him. I'm
sort of conflicted on Jaden Reid as well, because one
of the problems with Reid is he typically does not
play big snaphaars and typically is not on the field
in two wide receiver sets, which is kind of a
problem and it's sort of an obstacle to him providing
big time production. But at the same time, in the
(57:12):
first twenty games of his career that he has played
with Jordan Love, Jayden Reid has scored thirteen touchdowns. Like
his rate of finding the end zone has been pretty good.
And you know, kind of disappeared down the stretch a
little bit for the Packers last year, although I think
in that playoff loss to the Eagles he started to
resurface a bit.
Speaker 4 (57:32):
I just I don't know what to make of him.
Speaker 2 (57:35):
Again, I do think that the Packers group of pass
catchers is just kind of this mixed bag where it's
going to be different guys coming out of the fog
every week as sort of the lead guy. But I
do think there are going to be some Jaden Reid games.
I just don't know how to approach him as a
dynasty asset.
Speaker 1 (57:53):
I think I'd rather have Golden than Reid, but you
have them back to backfits, so I think you see
that as very close to ATAPA up read is somebody
that you are much lower than consensus on though Bogwin,
So you're kind of on the opposite end here.
Speaker 3 (58:06):
I just don't think that they like him. That's the
thing is, I don't think that the Packers like him.
I don't understand what his role is right like the
last six weeks being sixty percent of the snaps or lower.
I think in like four or five of those last
final six weeks of the season, kind of showed to me.
I don't know that they'd like him. Not only that,
(58:26):
but they also drafted Golden in the first round, So
is it like, Okay, look, Dobbs is out. He was
a whining cry baby last year. He's done. These are
our guys, now. I hope that's what we get because
I think that's the way it should be. And I
think those are the two most talented wide receivers for
the Packers. And it wouldn't shock me if they go
with both those guys, give them both a full compliment
(58:47):
and read is the better guy, It wouldn't be the
most shocking thing in the world by a lot. I
just don't know what is happening in Green Bay where
they keep taking him off the field so much. Is
it that bad of a run block?
Speaker 2 (58:57):
They do value run blocking from their wide receivers, And
you know, Jade Reid is five to eleven and not
even one hundred and ninety pounds.
Speaker 3 (59:06):
And you got to teach him how to do it better.
You can't be I mean, it's just it's too easy
to signify. Oh all right, Jaye Reid comes off the field.
We're running the ball right here, so let's go in
to run defense.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Come on, all right, Bob, you know which of these
players do you want to talk about.
Speaker 3 (59:19):
I think it's Josh Downs for me. I still think
Josh Downs is uber talented. They just need to find
somebody to throw the ball. And there are a lot
of targets there, and I know Tyler Warren is coming
in to take some of those over the top, you know,
targets away from Downs. But Downs is just so good
in contested situations. He's so fast, he's going with the
(59:40):
ball in his hands. Like I just I think we
need to see more from Downs. And I think they
those guys can compliment each other. I think they have
a perfect compliment of wide receivers. I think this all
fits very well. You have your possession guy in Pittman,
you have you're over the middle, two tough guys in
Warren and Downs, and you have your big hitters and
add Nai Mitchell and all Pierce. Like this offense is
(01:00:02):
all ready to click. They just need someone that can
throw the forward pass well, which they haven't had in
the last couple of seasons. So hopefully we get Richard
center Daniel Jones to work something out here because there's
so much talent on this.
Speaker 1 (01:00:14):
Team fits Are they going to find a quarterback to
take advantage of downs as talent?
Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I don't know, but I do think Tyler Warren is
going to put a major dent.
Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
In Josh downs production. Like I mean, I would rather.
Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Like he's going to get those little short throws near
the line of scrimmage and then he is going to,
you know, knock three people over going And like not
that the bullet and China shop approach is necessarily better
than downs make you miss approach, but people do fall
in love with this shifty slot receiver archetype, I think,
(01:00:49):
And so I'm just I've never had that Jamison Crowder
syndrome before, So I don't like downs as much as
Boggs does. And like seven touchdowns and thirty one career games,
I'm just not that interested in Josh Dowins.
Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Honestly bad.
Speaker 3 (01:01:03):
I mean, it's Joe Flacco before, it was Richardson, right,
It's been bad qbs there, But I understand the slot
guys usually either last a really long time like welcome,
or they don't. But that contested catchability that Donalds has
is one of the reasons why I like him as
one of those smallest.
Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
He is a good player, I just don't know if
he's ever going to be this guy who's consistently drawing
one hundred and twenty targets a Year's.
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Right, Let's have you guys pick one name each that
is not inside these top six tiers that you think
should be or just want to highlight. There's a lot
of names that I think are still really interesting that are,
you know, not within that top fifty three in the
top six tiers. Guys like Jack Besh, I think Rasha
Bateman is ranked too low, Cedric Tillman, Marvin Mims, like,
There's a lot of guys that I would be pretty
interested in as sort of those back end pieces on
(01:01:51):
my bench on a dynasty roster in this range. So
doesn't have to be one of the guys I U named.
It could be anybody fits who stands out to you
that's not inside the top six tiers.
Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
Man, a lot of interesting potential rookies from this group.
I think I definitely want to go with someone from
this rookie CLIs you know what, Yeah, I Am going
to go with Kyle Williams, Like I just and I
know we have been hearing maybe from Patriots Beat writers
(01:02:22):
that Drake May seems to really have this nice connection
with the Marrio Douglas, So maybe the Kyle Williams takeover
of the Demerio Douglas role is not at all imminent.
But man Like Williams is a guy I didn't really
necessarily love in the pre draft process at the beginning
of it, and I just the more I kind of
(01:02:43):
went back and watched and just like, he's so quick.
I can't help but think that he is going to
make an impact and pair pretty well with Drake May.
And I like having a young receiver paired with a
young quarterback because you can sort of see the future there.
You don't have to guess at what the next what
(01:03:05):
things might look like after the rookie receiver's first contract. Like,
I think these guys could be together for a really
long time.
Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Bogman, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Mean I think that's a good one. I I there
are a couple I like here. I mean, first of all,
I have to apologize to your boy with Shot Bateman.
I feel like all I did was talk crap about
him last offseason and then he proved me wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
So he's one of those guys that, like I just
think wide receiver sixty is too low. Like I'm not
saying he's going to be, you know, a dynasty wide
receiver one, and I think I don't. I think I think, babe,
it's a good player and like he's he's having a
fully healthy offseason. They signed it to another extension.
Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Not the guy get him at the ball.
Speaker 4 (01:03:44):
He needs to be on a throws.
Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
I'm not I don't even know if he's out of
the top forty. I just think wide receiver sixty is
too low. I think he's going to be more like
like he should be like wide receiver forty six or
something instead.
Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
I also think a guy that I'm like writing consensus with,
I think we're you know, I think maybe getting a
little litle bit of overcorrection from Xavier Laguette. Yes, he
was great in his rookie season, but he was a rookie, right,
and now they're adding a deep talent like t mac
in there. I'm not saying he need to go out
and draft him. I just think that he gets buried.
He gets skipped a lot. I am a wide receiver
(01:04:16):
sixty six, but he's going closer to wide receiver. I
feel like eighty or seventy five. Like throwing a deeper
league at the end, Why not he might get more
open underneath with McMillan taking the deep.
Speaker 2 (01:04:27):
Ske You know, he's he's good with the ball in
his hands. Bogs like he's he's dangerous. But like, I
don't think the dude knows how to run rots.
Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
He might not.
Speaker 3 (01:04:36):
They need a depot it would, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
It would concern me less if he was in early Declare,
had been in early Declare, but he was an old
prospect who didn't really pop until he was a fifth
year senior. So I just I'm worried.
Speaker 4 (01:04:49):
Man.
Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
He could easily be a donut, like he could be
a nothing, But I do like throwing a dart at
the end because he is good with the ball in
his hands. And sometimes it's just a matter of hey,
look we saw him for a year. Now we know
what his skill set is. Now we can kind of
design things around him, so maybe we get a little more.
Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
There are a lot of dart throws I like here,
and if you're making a trade, I would just try
and get them thrown in as a lottery ticket. I
mean again, already mentioned a few of them, like Bateman
Cedric Tillman. Like I said, Marvin Ms, Jalen Knowle, the
guys you picked, you know, rookie receivers here, besh Ady Mitchell,
I think is a worthwhile just lottery, lottery tickets. So
a lot of names in this range that I would
like to see get some opportunity and see what they
(01:05:27):
do this year. We went a little long, so we'll
ahead and wrap up there. But like like you said
at the top, wide receiver is like such just an
essential part of your Dynasty roster that it felt like
a good episode to take a little more time with.
But like I said, we'll go ahead and wrap up. So
thanks everybody for tuning in and listening today to our
wide receiver rankings and tiers for Bogman and Fits. I'm
Ryan Warmley. We'll see again next time. Thanks for listening
(01:05:48):
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