Polarizing 2025 NFL Draft Prospects with EJ Snyder (Ep. 227)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, and welcome into the Fantasy Pros NFL Draft Show.
With just over a week away until the NFL Draft
is officially here, we're stirring the pot by breaking down
the most polarizing twenty twenty five rookie prospects on today's episode,
I'm your host Seth Wilcock, and today I'm joined by
a man who some are calling the most accurate and
agreeable NFL Draft analysts on the Internet, the King of Bros,

(00:26):
Derek Crown akd bro. Good afternoon, pal, how are you
as we sit on this final episode of this particular
program ahead of Green Bay.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I thought that was a setup for EJ, because that
can't be describing me.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Man.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
There are too many people on the Internet that love
to hate too much of what I say, So I'll
pass that over to EJ.

Speaker 4 (00:43):
As far as all the love.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely. We're linking up today with a guy
who looks as cool as the other side of the
pillow with that wood background.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
Right now.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
Co creator, a Bootleg Football founder and host of the
Bear Era podcast, NFL Draft analyst EJ. Snyder, what's going on?
Thanks for hanging out with us, man. Are you the
people's champion, as Derek is not, I am not, but Bait.

Speaker 5 (01:06):
And Switch is fantastic. I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Well played, guys, It's been a really fun ride on
the show so far this offseason covering this NFL draft process.
We'll have a Betting Pros podcast episode next week with Debro,
myself a couple guests with our best NFL Draft bets.
We'll also be live on the fatas Pros YouTube channel
for the next few weeks on Monday at three pm
Eastern Time to take your question, So hop over there

(01:30):
if you have any dynasty of related questions redraft questions
relate to this NFL draft betting, we'll hook you up
over there. And before we get down to business, just
want to shadow everyone who's been tuning in all offseason
as well, whether that's on the Fantasy Pros YouTube channel
or the podcast feed. We see you, We appreciate you,
and as always, please give this video a thumbs up
if you enjoy this type of content. Also subscribe to

(01:50):
the channel if you're new and all right, boys, let's
go ahead. Let's jump into these polarizing prospects, starting with
a player who's projected draft position is slipping by the
day Colorado quarterback Shador Sanders. He's the Fantasy pros e
CR Rookie QB two after a season where he finished
eighth in the Heisman Trophy voting. However, he's currently six
in overall ECR Superflex Rookie rankings. Derek Brown, we began

(02:14):
this process many months ago with Shador as your quarterback one.
Do you still hold that true today? Sitting here April fourteenth,
just about a week away from the draft.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Was my QB one is my QB one And I'm
not moving off of that. I I mean, I think
there's a lot of different ways we can start this
conversation about Shadura Sanders. Whether you want to talk about
and he's polarizing, Whether we talk about the on the
field play off the field stuff. Yes, for me, I'll
wrap a bow on all of the off the field

(02:46):
stuff that I just don't care.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
Man.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
I think there is a thin line to slice about
cockiness versus confidence. I think there is a lot of
hate that goes Chaudur's way that I get where they're
coming from with it. I think there's also a lot
of hate that goes Chaudor's way that is just strictly
because they don't like his dad, and that's fine, But
if you want to talk about the player, there's also

(03:08):
a lot of narratives, all of the arm strength stuff
and the big thing about the arm strength stuff. For me,
I don't know how you watch this film, and I'm
because EJ, we have not talked about this guy. So
I'm so curious where you come down with Shador. So
for me with Shador, I don't know how we watch
the film and we have worries and questions about the
arm strength. To me, he has the arm strength to

(03:30):
make to throw the entire tree. And I think, just
from a top down approach, how can you be as
accurate as he is and drop the ball into the
bucket the way that he does on deep balls ranking
eighteenth in a just a completion rate if you don't
have the arm strength, like, just just cheer common sense here.

(03:52):
If you are struggling with a weak arm and you
need every bit of torque, every bit of all the
RPMs you can muster out of your body to get
the ball down the field you are talking to about.
You are throwing to spots, you are not accurate. You
are throwing to areas, you are not able to lace
throws like he can on the deep ball if you

(04:13):
are scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as
your arm strength goes, so like to me, I'm not
worried about his arm at all. Like you cannot be
that accurate to those levels of the field when arm
strength is that big of a concern as some people
talk about. I don't think that he is a howitzer.

(04:33):
But here's the thing in the NFL, do you really
need that every single down? No, So for me, his
accuracy is fine. I think he makes a business decision
with his arm and in these throws, with saying I
am prioritizing instead of just grip it, rip it, I'm
throwing it on a damn line. He makes the decision

(04:53):
of saying I care about and what we should care
about to not limit yack opportunities for my wide receivers
to place the ball where it needs to be. I
care more about ball placement over saying all right, let's
see how hard I could throw it. Let's go Anthony
Richardson style to the second.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
Level pow dart. But EJ, where do you say with it?

Speaker 3 (05:15):
I think there have been a lot of narratives since
the beginning of the process, because he is one of
the most talked about players in the entire draft, and
some of.

Speaker 5 (05:23):
The narratives have gone too far. Arm strength is probably
one of them.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
He does not have a great arm. He has a
fine arm, and that's fine for college. The problem is
when you get to the pros, the windows get smaller,
the players get faster. When you are expected to make
those throws, especially outdoors, it is a thing we see
quarterbacks struggle with it. Like Dome, Geno is a real thing.
I love Geno, but like he plays way better inside

(05:49):
than he does outside.

Speaker 5 (05:50):
So it's a consideration.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
I don't say it's the consideration in terms of the accuracy.
The numbers are fantastic, the film is not fantastic, and
again it's about trying to parse numbers from actual performance
and what matters where he was and what matters where
he's going. And for me, I come down on the

(06:14):
side of there are some things about Schouduer's game that
are really good, and there are some things about shoulders
game that are major red flags for me as he
tries to make the jump to the pros. And one
is that right now, largely he is a see it
throw it quarterback. He does not throw with a ton
of anticipation, and you will see him throw to his

(06:35):
guys after they have already like stopped moving on a comeback.

Speaker 5 (06:39):
He doesn't throw it at the break expecting they're going
to turn around and get it.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
He will wait until he sees them and then throws it,
which makes his arm look weaker than it is because again,
to throw is late, it ends up being contested. Is
it completed, Yeah, a lot of them were completed. Again,
is completion percentage is really high? Percentage of screens is
certainly something to worry about. This guy had more screens
in his offense than Justin Herbert had in his and
Justin Herbert was like the poster child for like threw

(07:04):
too many screens. We never saw what he did. Shouldar
had more, like literally more so. But then you do
see it, right, You do see really good accuracy to
windows shortened medium over the middle of the field, which
is where a lot of pro quarterbacks make a lot
of money, and he is money on those throws. If

(07:24):
you had to, if I had to put a big
green check at one area of Shoudar's game, it's right there,
short to medium, middle of the middle of the field throws.
He's very good. He does.

Speaker 5 (07:34):
He does quite a bit of work on there.

Speaker 3 (07:36):
The other thing that we have to consider, and I
know you guys are considering it, is how much Travis
Hunter made him look. Right, He's got a very good
wide receiving core, but Travis did work to make Schador
look good, not the other way around. And he's not
likely going to have a receiver like Travis Hunter because
there weren't very many of them in the NFL. He might,

(07:57):
but that would be an excellent opportunities pably not going
to be present on the team that he ends up with.
So is he a good quarterback? Yes? Is he a
top of the first round quarterback? Agnostic of everything else?

Speaker 5 (08:08):
Not for me? Can he be a successful pro quarterback? Yes?

Speaker 3 (08:11):
He can. Does he have work to do to get there,
just like all players do. He does, and I think
it might be a little bit bigger in that college
pro transition. He's mentally very tough. He's had to be
in his particular situation.

Speaker 5 (08:25):
He's physically pretty tough.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
But the other thing is he doesn't offer you anything
his legs. There is there is nothing there. And we
talk about that with every other quarterback, right, people talk
about it with Kyle McCord. Oh, well, he's gonna be
great in the pocket, but he doesn't give you anything
in his legs. Shuder Sanders thinks he's faster than he is,
which is a real problem because he's trying to run
away from defenders who are not the caliber defenders he's

(08:48):
going to see in the NFL. And he doesn't make
it like he can give you a couple of yards
if the red sea parts, and you know he gets
eight or ten yards up the middle, he can do that. Sure,
is he a scrambling threat in any other way? On rollouts?
His accuracy on rollouts isn't great either. Like he is
a he isn't pocket passer that can work the middle
of the field. And there's a place for that in
the NFL. Is it a place high in the first round?

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Not for me, No, so shador. It is number one
in all time career passing completion percentage at the NCAA level.

Speaker 4 (09:18):
EJ.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
Do you think that's more scheme based? Is that kind
of your your thought there?

Speaker 5 (09:24):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
It certainly comes from a lot of the scheme and
having a guy like Travis Hunter. It does not all
come from that, because again you will see deep sideline shots.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
Deepro talked about it.

Speaker 3 (09:34):
He will put it in the bucket to a guy
racing down the sideline where he just decides, basically pre snap,
I'm going to this guy, and sometimes, as Travis Hunter,
he bails him out. Sometimes that ball is short but
still completed because the receiver turns into a back shoulder throw.
All those things don't come through in like raw accuracy metrics.
Typically you have to dig pretty deep and look his

(09:55):
accuracy metrics. The Sterling justined accuracy eighty one point eight
percent jumps out. You're like, okay, Then you go in.
You remove the screens, you remove the stop routes, like
I don't know too many. Well, I don't know any
quarterbacks who are being considered for the move to the NFL.
They can't hit a stop route at eight yards. I
don't care what your arm is, I don't care what
your anticipation is. That is a manufactured throw where you

(10:17):
put four guys in the pattern, one of them pulls
up at eight yards, turns his number too you and
you hit them with the football, Like I know fourteen
year olds that can do that, but again it doesn't
differentiate between like that is a that is an accurate
completion for your percentage for these statistics. So when you
get in there and you really look at, okay, where
do the good ones, where do the good Sunday throws

(10:38):
come from? And again it's that short to medium over
the middle field. There's a lot of work there in
a lot of offenses in the NFL. But if you're
asking him to consistently go across the field outside the numbers, again,
the arm is not awesome. A lot of times he
just threw it up and Travis was down there.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Derek, when we're kind of on this topic of polarizing
prospects should or certainly want, he opened up with an
over under of three and a half for his draft position.
That has ballooned up in the last week. It's now
over under six and a half. At Caesars you can
get plus three ten on the under, and then over
at DraftKings over under eight and a half plus two
to twenty for that under. This is gonna be one

(11:16):
of my strong stance in our betting episode next week.
I'm on that under. I'm going to continue to pound
that at that number. Are you as well, And are
you also in at the overall player six right now
coming off the board in super flex dynasty rookie drafts.

Speaker 4 (11:29):
I'm fine with both of those.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I mean, I think the conversation for any of these
quarterbacks starts at probably the one oh three to one
oh four of this class as far as Dynasty Ricky drafts,
probably the one oh four, after like two top first
round running backs tech come off the board, then we're
talking quarterbacks. And as far as that, yeah, I mean
I was hitting this the under when it was three
and a half and at plus six, so you know,

(11:53):
I'm still there and and some of this, and I
think this draft is so really interesting as far as
what are these top teams in the top three going
to do and outside of Camwood going at one, we
don't know. To me, and I've been on this and
I'm still this EJ. We haven't talked about any of this,
so I'm curious where you sit with this. Like I'm

(12:14):
not saying I'm a sores guy, like I have a few,
but not a ton, But with this situation in particular,
I think what the Giants did with their quarterback moves
this offseason and bringing russ In and them saying we're
going to construct a quarterback room. To me, that is
also signal because the best clarity you get about what

(12:36):
could possibly happen in the NFL Draft and what teams
are going to do or what they're not going to
do is the offseason moves that they make heading up
to the NFL Draft. So you'll see teams sign wide
receivers that are really kind of placeholders. So like if
we miss out on a guy or tight end or
running back, especially running backs, where it's like, look at
what Dallas is doing right now. If we don't get
a running back, we have bodies we can run the

(12:58):
ball with and will somehow maybe.

Speaker 4 (13:00):
Make do me.

Speaker 2 (13:03):
But that's why I feel about the Giants they're telling us.
I feel like those moves and is saying to us,
Cleveland is going to take a quarterback. Okay, if war
goes one, then Sanders goes too. I could be wrong
with that. And again everybody is going to the well
Cleveland met and had dinner with Travis Hunter, should her

(13:24):
Sanders is also at that dinner, So you can definitively
tell me that it's going to be Hunter over Sanders.
They were even both of them. It wasn't like one
of the guys was standing outside the restaurants like please
let me in, so I and again, maybe I'm just
taking too much signal, but EJ, how are you kind
of reconciling all of those different things.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
There's a lot this year, and I am you know,
I think the most important thing is I am probably
with you in that this draft is going to be.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
Fascinating as a draft guy.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
It's why as a guy that started in that place
like there is no certainty, there is usually certainty four
or five you can maybe even part out the top
ten with a pretty good feeling of like, hey, these
ten players will be going on the top twelve pick
something like that. Not so this year, like.

Speaker 5 (14:11):
After two, and I do think it is after two.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
I think cooler heads will probably prevail, and I think
Cleveland will be looking at their board and say like
Travis Hunters, Travis Hunter, we're going to And then the
conversation gets really interesting, regardless of what you think about
Cleveland's pick, because the Giants on the board at three
with Carter there, who they don't necessarily need and doesn't

(14:34):
really move the needle for again, their situation which is
a coach in a GM coaching for their lives in
New York. Right, That's where it gets really interesting. And
you know, is somebody gonna go up, you know with Carolina,
go up and get Carter? Well they might at that point,
because again he does move the needle for them.

Speaker 5 (14:54):
We'll see.

Speaker 3 (14:55):
So, but there is no certainty, especially if it goes
in that order.

Speaker 5 (14:59):
Can't I think is secure.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
I think the Titans should take him, and I think
that's a justified pick. I think Hannor should go too,
based on who he is and what he does. And
then you get to like, probably only one of the
top trinity that is, you know, really trade uppable for
outside of needing a quarterback, which is just neat that
happens every year in the NFL, is Carter. Three of

(15:21):
the Giants who have a money QB situation And okay,
now what are we doing? And the answer is, I
don't know. And it's going to be theater from three
on down.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Absolutely, man, there are so many question marks continuing at
the quarterback position. Maybe no bigger question mark than Alabama
signal caller Jalen Milroe after rushing for over seven hundred
yards twenty touchdowns this past season in that Nick Sheridan
called offense. I was really high on Jalen Milroe. However,
it's been a pretty rather disappointing pre draft process, with
Milroe not running at the combine, failing to impress and

(15:57):
mobile as well. Still, he did accept an in to
the NFL Draft, leading some analysts to believe he could
sneak into the back half of Day one. E J
Are you one of those believers that he could be
a Day one prospect? Still, with everything we've seen so
far this offseason, it.

Speaker 3 (16:12):
Would be fascinating. Is it possible? It absolutely is. I
you know, Mike Tomlin could end his slide and say
we believe and that is what it would take. Do
I think that's a great move? I personally don't. So
if Janiel Milroroe goes in the first with what he's done,
you know, in college and the pre draft process, I

(16:33):
would be very surprised. That would be what I would
consider a reach. Jalen Milroe one of the best runners
in this draft, and I don't mean runners from the
quarterback position. I mean one of the most electric guys
with the ball in his hands period in all of
college football. Unfortunately. The flip side is he has all
the arm you could ever want, but it is not
tied together with mechanics. The accuracy is incredibly inconsistent. You'll

(16:58):
see him make an amazing throw file up by three
complete file balls, and that type of inconsistency is very
difficult to live through in the NFL because you have
less plays overall, less drives, overall, points are more important
and not as plentiful as they are in college. You're
not racking up fifty burgers on very many NFL opponents.

(17:18):
So when you look at what Jalen Milroe is and
what he could be, he might have the highest variance
in this draft. If you get Jalen Milroe in the
building and you figure it out, you get him with
the guy that you know, Josh Allen worked with to
clean up his accuracy, and he gets even average in
terms of consistency, accuracy, ball placement. He's got every tool.

(17:38):
We don't have any arm questions about mil Roe. We
certainly don't have any leg questions about Mirroe. We have
quarterback playing questions in the NFL about Milroe. Again, great
college player that translation is going to need a bunch
of work so if somebody is sure enough that they
can make that quickly enough that they choose him in
the first round. And again, the invitation to the first

(17:58):
round is flemixing many of us. You know, we'll see,
but in terms of man, the potential is off the charts.
The actuality is you have to be real, and patience
is incredibly limited in the NFL these days, so he's
got both of those things working against him.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Derek, kind of give me your feel on Milroe currently.
I know you weren't high on him initially when watching
the tape because like you see those games against Georgia
this season. First half amazing, LSU ran all over the place,
but then there's the lows. You watch that Oklahoma game
at the end of the season, melt down Michigan as well,
melt down in that Pop Tarts Bowl game in the weather.
So there's two sides of the coin here. Currently ECR

(18:39):
rookie qbfore player fifteen overall, so a ton of upside
in the second round of Dynasty rookie drafts. But is
that enough to get you there with him?

Speaker 2 (18:46):
Nope, it's not. I just, dude, I feel like we've
done this and this is not. This is not me,
you know, trying to cover up wounds or dealing with
wounds from Anthony Richardson.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
This is different for me, like I got him.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
I'm not comparing jam and Milroe to Richardson. I'm not
comparing him, and I think it is a horrible comparison
because look, jaaln Hurts is a better He was a
more accurate quarterback coming out. He was just miles ahead
of Milrow in every aspect of playing quarterback, not talking
about rushing the ball and what you can do on
your legs and stuff like that. I could point to

(19:22):
a billion stats for jaymen Hurts to say that anybody
making the comparison between those two players has not done
the work, doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
They're not the same guy. And so for.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
Milroe, it just comes down to me, as he's a
damn good athlete. I've heard he's a hard worker or
he's an awesome kid. I wish him all of the
luck in the NFL. It's just not a bet I'm
prepared to make, man like with just watching him play quarterback.
It's the erratic accuracy to every level of the field.
I mean, we're discussing a quarterback over the last two

(19:52):
years fifty third sixtieth in all amongst all FBS quarterbacks,
these one hundred and fifty dropbacks. You even look at
when he was giving clean and that's where it's like,
you know, pressure metrics for quarterbacks versus pressure can wax
and wane. They can look great one year, not great
another year. A lot of that is contextual based off
of your offensive line, what types of pressure you're facing,

(20:14):
because not all pressure is created equal. You have quick pressure,
you have pressure off the edge, you have unblocked pressure.
So saying a guy was pressured doesn't look the same
as if like you're running back missus the blitz pick
up and you're getting blown up two seconds after you
got the damn ball in your hands, versus you sack
in the pocket for five seconds and oh my gosh,
I'm pressured.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
That's totally different. But when you look at clean.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
Pocket adjust a completion rate sixty six seventy eighth over
the last two years, like that is horrible, man. And
it just it goes whether you're talking about ball plays, mean,
you're talking about him as a thrower, you're talking about
even him processing speed wise where there's so many times
where it's like I'm just I mean, he's a seat
throw at quarterback. There's so many times where I'm watching

(20:59):
film and I watch Milrose film and I came away
just immensely frustrated dude, where it was like throw it,
throw it, throw it, damn it. Why is he throwing it?

Speaker 4 (21:07):
Throw it? Throw it? Throw it. He's still holding onto it.
Throw it. Why to run do nothing? And he's he's
holding onto it. I'm a get rid of the ball, dude.
And all of that is.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
So flumixing that it's not a bad unwoman to make. Like,
there are certain guys where you're like, Okay, every player
goes into the NFL, and it's like you have shortcomings
with every player. It is what do you need to
improve when you go to the NFL? Every player is
like that. Nobody is perfect straight up. But when the

(21:39):
game gets faster, the players get bigger, everybody is fast,
everybody's a ridiculous alien athlete. Stuff gets even harder. Man,
So the things that you're not good at, or the
things that you struggle with are the parts of your
game that need to be cleaned up can get magnified
even more where we're talking about accurate issues, processing issues,

(22:01):
hero ball stuff. That was why I was worried about
Caleb last year. But like this all comes back to Milrow.
I'm not it's not a player that I'm willing to
make the bet that he can clean up all of
this stuff in the requisite time to get the starts
to I mean, like we're talking about EJ hit this perfectly. Man,
in this iteration of the NFL, you can't even say

(22:22):
that guys are getting the entirety of their rookie deals
to even prove that their NFL worthy quarterbacks. Like Richardson,
you knew as a team Indy drafted this guy, and
as a general manager and head coach you should have
known he needed more starts, he needed snaps, he needed
just to play freaking football to even have a chance

(22:45):
to figure it out. And yet he's hurt, he's inconsistent,
he hasn't gotten a lot of time, and they're already
pulling the plug on that. So you're telling me Milroe
comes in and an NFL team is going to definitively
give him time depending on what his situation looks like.

Speaker 4 (23:03):
That's a tough.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Bet for me, man, And And the other part of
this is if I was Jalen Milroe, I would say
to the NFL, I'm sorry, I'm not going to be
your theater piece.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
I appreciate and I respect you inviting me there for
the first round of the NFL Draft. I'm going to
chill at home with my family, right. I use me
as a spectable spectacle to sit here and keep bringing
the camera back to me where I go if I
fall in the first round. Ah, I'm not feeling airtime
for you. I'm sitting at home and I'm chilling with
the fan.

Speaker 4 (23:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
It's difficult, man, especially because, like I would have loved
to see him come back to Alabama being that Ryan
Grubb called offense and we'll see in twenty twenty five.
I think it would have been, you know, one more
year with Brian Williams out there at Whiteout too. So
it just feels like he kind of rushed through the process.
And like EJ, when we're sitting here on our dynasty drafts,
like you have the chance to draft a Milroe or
Jayden Higgins or Jalen Knowle or Elk a Oman or

(23:54):
like there's just it feels like a tough bet to
make at that pick right there.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Especially if he gets picked in the first round and
theater piece aside, like the NFL to your point, ever,
doesn't want that theater I know you think they do.
They don't want a guy sitting there moping into the
second round. Hope. You know. That is not why they
they pulled him there. They know girlfriend, yes, and he's

(24:21):
not the only one right, it does happen. But to
make that offer that sort of assuredly at the time
when they did it, they know something. He's probably going
off the board, whether or not we agree with it,
because they don't want him sitting there like yesterday's fruit.

Speaker 5 (24:36):
That is not That is not the.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
Look they're looking for now, Whether or not we agree
with that, but the point being, if he gets picked
in the first round, all those expectations ratchet up, you
know they do. It's a label, it's a tag. It
gives you some extra chances. In the NFL, historically, if
you're a first round pick, people are more willing to say, hey,
it's a first round pick, I'll give him another shot.
But it also gives you pressure in your currency. May

(25:00):
we picked you in the first round. That was the
biggest draft chip we had, and he spent it on you.
We need you to pay it off like now, and
that's not going to be healthy for him. If I
had to pick an ideal situation for him.

Speaker 5 (25:14):
It would be again, not a first round selection. So
this is weird.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
But like when Malik went to Green Bay, right and
he got to be not the guy and he gets
a couple of starts and they're like, look, you can
do this with a limited playbook and you looked really
good doing it.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
You're not going to.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Get that if you're the first round quarterback. Nobody's pulling
any punches. So I would like for him for his
own development. Like you said, it would have been cool
if you went back to Alabama. If he is going
to go to the NFL, get him in a second
round spot, even a third round spot would be fine
with me.

Speaker 5 (25:44):
Get him with a.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
Coach that knows he doesn't have to start right away
and can have him come in in some spots as
a package player and then work on that stuff. Get
him to a quarterback coaching the off season, start tying
his mechanics together, and then see what he could be,
because I want to see him be the best version,
because he's the best version.

Speaker 5 (26:01):
You mentioned some of the games. That's great football, it's
fun to electric.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Yeah, so free j would you disagree with any of
those spots man him going to Now this is assuming
that we get this coaching staff staying there, but him
going to the Giants game, going to the Giants, not
being pressed into starting this year, going to Las Vegas,
even the Jets because Justin Fields has good money for

(26:25):
the next two years, so that they would do that.

Speaker 3 (26:28):
Oro sitting behind Fields in particular is fascinating.

Speaker 4 (26:32):
That would be fascinating.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah, because I'm like, huh, Fields was farther along as
a passer, also very electric as a runner.

Speaker 5 (26:40):
Had a much higher standard.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
And I was fine with Justin Fields being picked in
the first round because he gets shown on film things
in the passing game that would translate to the NFL.
He got to the NFL was not a great situation. Obviously,
he regressed as a passer in a lot of ways,
continue to excel as a runner.

Speaker 5 (26:58):
But having Justin Field is kind of.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
Two point zero with a lesser passer rating sitting behind
you and feels one point oh is.

Speaker 5 (27:05):
Is would be very very interesting to me.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
And again I think the new coaching staff in New
York has a better shot of saying, hey, this is
how you need to be a pro in the NFL
and shaping that experience for him. I like that aspect,
But what if it would be a field day.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
What if what if Seattle would take where to take
the water down version approach of you know what happened
with Kirk Cousins. What if they would take him in
the second round and put them behind Darnold.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, you know you got you've got, You've got Drew right. Yeah.
I don't know that Seattle would prioritize the pick. And again,
he's probably gonna be off the board before teams like
that would take a swing in him, which is both good.

Speaker 5 (27:53):
Be like, hey, go make your money.

Speaker 3 (27:55):
But the money you're gonna make if you're a Jayalen
Milroe is getting your game together, playing well and getting signed.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
Somewhere where you have a chance to start, I'll lock
RK Cousins, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know that's that's
the ticket. And I don't I don't think he's going
to get to be able to punch it.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
And that's gonna be a very high pressure situation for
young guy. Who has been in it. Look, being quarterback
at Alabama is not a low pressure situation. He's already
experienced that, but in terms of his pro prospects, it's
gonna make it more difficult for him. Agreed.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Okay, Before we shift gears, I did want to remind
the Fantasy Pros family that if you want to win
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(28:43):
a winner right here on the program. So make sure
you ring that bell so you can be alerted when
new videos are up and to claim your prize. Let's
get to some polarizing wide receiver prospects, starting with Missouri's
Luther Burden, the third who a few months ago many
people were taking him as the wide receiver two this class,
in the top five overall of superflex rookie drafts. I

(29:04):
feel like the community is slowly caught up to deebro
and Ey's opinion that hey, this guy's profile a little
bit fraudulent, causing him to fall down to player eleven
overall in ECR Debro, Can you kind of shed some
light on those who maybe missed our Top ten wide
receiver episode on why you're not buying Birding as a
first round rookie or NFL draft prospect.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
Yeah, man, I mean it comes down to was he
incredibly productive? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (29:29):
This has nothing to do in the reasons that I'm
lower on Luther Burton, has nothing to do with his
down twenty twenty four season. I just want to make
sure that I'm phrasing this right.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Everybody talks about that as a talking point, and you
know what we saw in usage from twenty twenty three
to twenty twenty four. To me, that's not where I'm
at and why I'm lower on him. For me, this
archetype of player and what we've seen out of his
game to this point. That's why I'm scared in terms
of what he's really good at, the way that he

(29:59):
was used in Missouri and projecting that type of manufactured
touch roll into the NFL.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
We hear it year after year after a year. After
a year.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I sat on the other side of the fence for
Malachi Corley last year and I'm still there and people
you know, cite miss tackles.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
Force and blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
I mean just he's he's a train I mean, he's
a bowling ball with the you know, with the ball
in his hands and get it's a good thing when
a team wants to get the ball in their hands.
And his movement skills, can we project him to be
a good route runner? My whole thing with all of that,
saying you have really good movement skills and saying that
you will be a good route runner is a big

(30:40):
intuitive leap I am not willing to make. It is
a very different conversation. I said it on previous episodes,
to be a good route runner and to say that
you have the potential to possibly become a good route
runner is a very There are two very different conversations
to have. So just because he is twitchy, just because
he can break tackles, just because his movement skills good,
does not mean that he will definitively turn into a

(31:03):
good route runner. And based off of what we've seen
out of college, his archetype, the way his game is,
and the way he was used, there is a lot
of projection, and I think it's really really scary as
far as projecting it that he will be the guy
that everybody hopes that he will turn into. And if
you look at just how he was used so every
and these stats are from my dude, Scott Barrett out

(31:25):
on Twitter every eight hundred yard FBS wide receiver season
and these are ranked by the percentage of yards gained
on either screens or deep slot targets, so your slot fads.
Since twenty eighteen, the players that were assuming the good
draft capital for Luther Burden, the players drafted in the
top three rounds. Here are the percentages. Malachi Corley sixty
five percent, Malachi Corley fifty eight percent. And I'm just

(31:47):
reading down the list of the guys that qualify for
this got the draft capital, but this is the usage
that they got in college. You're looking at Malachi Corley
as the top two on this list, then it's two
two at well, this is not a great list to
be on. Then Luther Burden is fourth, Wandel Robinson, Trailon Burks,
Devin Dubernet, Jalen Hyatt, Amari Rodgers. That is a damning

(32:09):
list to find yourself on Like this archetype of player
that is used from the slot, used with manufacturer touches,
and it's just not good, dude, And I can't make
that projection that Luther Burden is going to do more
in the NFL and learn everything he needs to learn
to be a good route runner, to be on the perimeter,

(32:29):
to be the guy that wasn't because all I saw
was a ton of tape on him being used in
bunch formations, handoffs, rub routes, a ton of stuff creating
easy separation for him where.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
He's not he's not asked to.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
And this is the thing where it's like this translate.
This translates ten times out of ten. Give me the
wide receiver where I'm not asking or an offensive coordinator
isn't forced to scheme up all these ways to get
you from get the ball in your hands. If I
can ask you and just say go line up and
route dudes up, go line up and win routes. That

(33:09):
has not been asked of Louther Burden to this point.
Can he answer that question and do that in the
NFL remains to be seen. I'm on the other side
of it saying I'm highly skeptical that happens.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
Okay, and yeah, I will put my hand up. I
was one that I didn't like the production nearly dropping
in half this past year, like Theoese outproduced him. A
guy who's coming in this NFL draft process. No one's
talking about him. So do you have similar concerns as well, EJ.
Whether that's a lack of production in twenty twenty four
or just the overall schemedness of this player.

Speaker 5 (33:45):
No on the first, Yes on the second. Okay, okay
in terms of.

Speaker 3 (33:50):
The production, didn't bother me as soon as you look
at Missouri's offense, especially their quarterback, and you go, Okay,
I get it.

Speaker 5 (33:56):
I understand why the production drops.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Yeah, Braddy Cook's not the best.

Speaker 5 (33:58):
Yeah, that's for sure. That's a very very kind way
to say that. So the production thing in college production
again is.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
It can be indicative, but you have to look at
how it's produced and doesn't translate. And I think Debro's
I'm not going to call it a rant. I'm going
to call it his argument because I think it's a
good one. Is really right on here like this, that's
one of the best ways I've heard it parsed out
about this player. And it's the way I feel about
this player. I haven't really had a chance to go

(34:30):
over this, but yeah, I was higher on him coming
in because he had that incredible season. Right Whenever a
guy has that much production, there's something there and you
go find what the some things are.

Speaker 5 (34:41):
Do they translate and how excited you are about him.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Wasn't worried about the production dropping, because as soon as
I looked at the tape this year, I was like,
I know why the production drop.

Speaker 5 (34:47):
That's why I didn't have a lot to do with him.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Then you get into peeling away the layers of the onion,
and I think the layers that Debro focused on are.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
The most important ones.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
When people start talking about a player and they start saying, well,
if you can only do this for him, if you
can just do this, if you do this with him,
he'll be great. And there's all these caveats for this
is how we'll make him great. He'll be great if
we can get him into space, if we can get
him scheme touched it like the NFL doesn't really flex

(35:16):
like that, And the production you get off those targets
is again reduced. Because defenders get them more quickly, they're
more likely to tackle you are you going to get
away on someone and have some highlight plays. You are.
But as you look at this archetype, it's funny that
you brought up Scott's list. I look at another lists.
But when you start saying, who does this player remind
me of? From tape? Who do these arguments remind me of?

(35:38):
From draft circles from pre draft or post ra And
it's the Canarius Tony type. Right. It's an electric athlete.
We're going to get him in space. He's going to
make all these things happen, right, And every time you
hear that, you go yeah, and I get excited about
those players. Those players are cool, and I say cool?
What would translate a lot of the production? Even the

(35:58):
production he did have the good production this year from Missouri.
Are those type of touches they don't translate as well
in the NFL, because again, you need to get put
out on an island and forced to create your own
stuff more often than not. And if you can't do
that reliably all the time, your production's going to go down.
And if his production goes down from where it was

(36:19):
in college, for all the factors we just talk about,
you're talking about a receiver that has three or four
hundred yards a year in the NFL. You know, Jerry
Judy was another one, right, and Jerry Judy we actually
is a little more polarizing because he opened up when
he got a guy that could throw the ball and
they started using them the right way. But in Denver
it was continually like, well and again, he wasn't a
guy that made yards after contact. He wasn't a physical

(36:39):
guy after the catch. It was that he can route
guys up, but he has to do it in space.
He's not going to do it against press necessarily. He's
got to get away from the gym. Like there are
all these stipulations. And we saw that play out over
his first seasons in Denver, and we're like, well, that's
kind of what you get when you get to the NFL. Now,
was it in there? It was For the other guys
I mentioned, it hasn't been, and for almost all all

(37:00):
the guys the Deebro mention, it hasn't been. So it
is a tough bet. The only thing and this is
the sort of I don't want to say saving grace
because it's not the sort of silver lining for Luther
Burt is that guy's a dog in clutch situation, like
when they need a play down the field traditional effect
like he made. He made it twice this year in
spots where you can't will right. So he's got that

(37:23):
going for him. He is a tough to you mentally.
You did start to see the frustration this year. I
don't blame him, but it's still a check on his
film that like he is. If you're a body language guy,
if you're an onfield presence guy, if you're a bench guy,
like it was not good this year at Missouri, and
I understand why. You have a great season, you go
to the next season, which is your NFL draft season,
and it falls off, you have the right to be frustrated.

(37:46):
What you do with that frustration outwardly certainly goes to
your film too.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
So you're talking about a very talented.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
Guy, good hand, great athlete, not a great route runner,
not necessarily great at I'll say, earning his own stuff
in an NFL way, who again, I think is gonna
be a productive but not hyper productive NFL player. That's
not a guy you pick in the first round. That's
not a first receiver off the board. And when I
see him on lists, up there. Again, it's kind of

(38:12):
like Jaylen Miler. I think that's unfair to him as
a player. It's going to be more difficult for his
projection if he's a first wide receiver draft in this draft.
Come on, it comes with weight, right, and he's not
going to live up to that in the NFL like
most likely, very small chance that he does. It basically
stacks the board against him, and I don't want to
see that. If he gets picked in the bottom of

(38:33):
the second, I think that's much more reasonable. Top of
a third, great value.

Speaker 5 (38:37):
Let's go.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
You want to give me Luther Bird in the top
of the third. Everybody's screaming at home right now. Zoo
fans are like pointed mentions. You know. I don't think
that's going to happen. I think he's going to get
picked earlier, and I don't think it's going to be
as good for his PRO projection. Again, great college player,
his second last season, undeniably one of the great college
wide receiver seasons we've seen recently. Good stuff college and

(39:02):
pro not the same. I think it would be a
good PRO, a steady PRO, A wide receiver three or
four that you can use can give you a little
bit of juice in the return game. Sure, Net that
is not a top half of the first round wide receiver.
And I seen place there and I think it's ot place.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
I couldn't agree more with everything that you said.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Hej like I thought that the after I got through
with him as a prospect, I thought it was absolutely
crazy sauce that I was seeing him mocked and projected
as a first round wide receiver. I've got him as
a day two guy, Like I'm with you. I think
like late round two, early round three. One more thing
that I'll mention here. Sure to everybody out there, he

(39:44):
is not, say Flowers, He is not DJ Moore. Stop
comping him to that. And Jalaenol is actually who you
want Luther Burden to be. Like, Jalaenol is that guy
that everybody wants Luther Burden to be.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Yeah, And Nola kind of under the radar. He's been
playing with Higgins. He's been playing at Iowa State, which
you know before this season. Definitely not a helmet program,
as you'd like to say, Devro not now a school
that everyone's claiming to bet on each weekend or watch consistently.
So sticking with these polarizing prospects at the wide receiver position.
Let's talk about the consensus wide receiver one of the

(40:18):
twenty twenty five rookie class, or maybe I should say
was the consensus wide receiver one of the rookie class,
Arizona's Tetoa McMillan, who now has a projected draft position
of over under seventeen and a half, the same as
Matthew Golden. Most people's concerns revolve around his top end speed,
the play strength as well due to kind of his
lanky stature. Derek Brown, do you share any of those

(40:39):
concerns or do you remain all in on the twenty
twenty four consensus all American.

Speaker 4 (40:43):
I'm all in, man like, he's the wide receiver one
of this class.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
I just.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
Prospect fatigue is real. I get it.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
We talk about these guys for a long time. I'm
not shading Tedoa McMillan. I'm not worried about the four
or five. And this is not me Austin Shade or
you know, taken shots here. But I've also I've seen
where people have talked about we have not seen a
wide receiver picked inside of one of the top ten
or fifteen picks that's run over a four or five.

(41:13):
That stat is very, very cherry picked when you consider
that Marvin Harrison Junior did not run the forty, Drake
London did not drake forty. Both of those guys did
not run the forty. So that stat is already debunked,
and just kick it into the ether because I don't
really give a shit about it. I think Ted has
all the skills to be a wide receiver won in
an offense. I think that he has all the skills

(41:33):
to be an alpha in the league. I think that
he moves in a way that a six y five
receiver should not be able to move. When you're six
five and your butt can run a crisp whip route,
you have my attention when you look at his ability,
his start stop ability, and his short your short yardage ability.

(41:55):
As far as like his burst, his yak ability. You
don't see guys that are that that had that type
of burst just immediately when they turn into a run
after the catch player. And we could parse through all
the other kind of stuff about route running. Do I
wish that he had a little bit more christness at
the top of his stem at times? Sure, but no
player is perfect coming to the NFL. Does he have

(42:16):
things he needs to work on in his game, absolutely,
But can he be a wide.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
Receiver one for an NFL offense? Absolutely to me.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
And the one thing that I don't really understand is,
in one breath, a lot of people are like, oh,
he's like Drake London, and then they're like, but he's
not worth going being drafted in the top end of
the first round.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
Oh, but he's like T Higgins.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Oh, you mean like T Higgins that just produced amazing
numbers on a per game basis. Health has been more
of the problem with why T Higgins has not put
up sixteen hundred yard seasons than his talent.

Speaker 4 (42:46):
Oh okay, Oh, he's.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Like Courtland Sutton. You mean Courtland Sutton before all of
the injuries. That was a really, really freaking good player.
But apparently all those names in one breath, we talk
about all those comps and all those stylistic comparisons, But
then he's not worth going as high as we think
he should go because I don't know, we're at the
part of the draft cycle where we're just going to
make up talking points about players like I'm just not

(43:10):
willing to do that, man, I mean, give me Tet's
ability after the catch, his ability. He wasn't pressed a ton,
but he showed over the last two seasons he could
beat press. He'd beat man coverage. I mean, and he's
battle tested and that to a certain extent like Tedoro
McMillan over the last two years has faced the third
most and the tenth most man coverage targets in those

(43:31):
last two seasons.

Speaker 4 (43:32):
What did he do?

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Produced top ten yards per out run seasons in each
one of those years against man coverage. Like he's a
wide receiver one. Dude, I'm not getting too cute with this, EJ.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Where are you at on Tet?

Speaker 5 (43:46):
Uh? Slightly cooler, but I would not say cool again.
This is when people start saying.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Consensus and number one and guaranteed and he's all everything.
Those are rare players. We had possibly three of them
in last year's draft, which spoils people.

Speaker 5 (44:01):
Sometimes there's none, and.

Speaker 3 (44:02):
You could even argue this year that maybe this is
that year, right, A lot of very good wide receivers.
But when you're saying wide receiver one, I believe he
can be a starting X, which is a very valuable
thing in the NFL. Is that a true wide receiver one. Well,
if you look at offenses like Seattle's and JSN, like
Jaysn's the one. He's not an X right, he plays

(44:23):
slot for them, but he's the one because that's how
their offense is focused. So Ted, I think, is all
the things that Debro said outside of sort of all everything.

Speaker 5 (44:33):
And T Higgins is a little rich for me. Con
Sutton is pretty good. I like that Drake.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
I think a lot of people are saying Drake because
the size of the movement, skills are similar, similar different players.
Drake is a tougher player. He's better rebounder than Ted
is contested catch stuff.

Speaker 5 (44:51):
People who are worried about the drops. Drops are noisy.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
Uh, They're kind of like interceptions for dbs, like they
go up and down. They're fickle. It's a concern like
you need to be sure when you're picking him why
those happened? And would you like more toughness at the catchpoint?
You would for sure?

Speaker 5 (45:11):
Has he demonstrated it throughout the past.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
Yes. The one thing about Ted is you have no
questions about who he is in terms of usage, in
terms of overall volume, in terms of production, like he
has shown you clearly who he is. You're either comfortable
with that for what you and your offense need or
you're not. So is he a starting action yes? Is
he a top round wide receiver? Yes? I would take
him in the first if my team needed that, because

(45:35):
he's highly productive. He's athletic in ways again that taller,
longer lived guys typically aren't. You can work with a
lot of what's there, and I'm not. I'm not unhappy
about it, and it's not a projection. So I'm going
to sleep pretty well if I pick Ted knowing who
he is, because I'm not like, well, I hope he
turns into like he already is that guy? That guy

(45:57):
works pretty well in the NFL as a straight up
starting at which again, just about every team in the
league has and uses regularly. Like is he gonna be
your leading receiver? I don't know that he is. Is
he going to be good and worthy of that spot?

Speaker 5 (46:10):
I think he is okay.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
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(47:21):
and shift gears to the running back position. Next up
is Arizona State's Cam Scattabo, who was one of the
most fun players to watch down the stretch in the
college football season. Led the sun Devils to the CFP
nearly help upset them against the Texas Longhorns with a
brilliant performance in that Peach Bowl. After finishing fifth in
the country in the Heisman voting, Scabatobo is ranked nineteenth

(47:44):
overall in our Rookie Super Flex ECR. However, some of
our own analysts, including my co host over the Betting
Pros College Football show, Scott Bogan, he views him as
a first round rookie pick. Derek Brown, where would you
be taking Cam Scataboo in rookie drafts?

Speaker 2 (47:58):
Much much much lower than that. I've got Cam Skataboo
at RB.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
You gonna do Bogs like that? Will the Bogs?

Speaker 4 (48:08):
And I have thought about him. I say that he's
got too much.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
He watched too much of that Texas game, and it's
pushing him too hard. Like I get it, man, Like
I understand, like everybody that believes and the scatabo hive
or Skataboo hive, I get it, man, I understand where
it's coming from.

Speaker 4 (48:28):
For me.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I've got him as my twenty seventh overall ranked player.
And this is before draft capital. Okay, I think the
draft capital is probably not going to be kind to
Cam Skataboo. Really I and when I say not kind,
I think he's going to be a day three guy.
I think somewhere in the middle of day three I

(48:49):
will be surprised if he goes higher than that. Like
I just and this isn't like I know he went
out ran a four six five forty and stuff like that.
Look if you were if you were expecting faster, I
don't know what you were watching on tape, Like, I mean, yeah,
for me, you know, and we can adjust that, like
if you want to talk about it, it's a pro
day time. Really that's four seven if you want to

(49:10):
add the point oh five. But regardless of even of that,
like I didn't need to see him to run the
forty to know what his game is like and know
how he's going to translate. I just for me, is
he a good receiver out of the backfield? Yeah, we
can have that conversation. For me, it's the archetype of player.
It's the testing. It's some of the off like not
off field stuff, but things I heard floating around the

(49:32):
combine about work ethic and things. And again I'm not
I'm not spreading things. I'm just here telling people what
was discussed and when I heard. I don't know the
kid personally. I can't speak to you know how many
days he's in the gym and what he's doing. But
looking at the archetype of player, I think you match
up the testing versus just his his game. If the

(49:54):
draft capital is not tied to that, and knowing that
he is going to be a.

Speaker 4 (49:59):
Three down word course and get the volume.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
I mean, I don't think anybody's gonna sit here and
tell you that he's an explosive player. He's ripping off
long runs. Okay, Well, if he's not doing that, then
he needs to be a tone setter. He needs to
be the guy that's the fuel of your offense, and
he needs to be getting volume to maximize why a
team drafts him. And in this iteration of the NFL, yeah,
like we could have a long conversation about okay, more

(50:22):
too high coverage softer, the re revitalization of the running
back position in today's NFL. Maybe a team believes in
him and he's part of that. He could be the
full crom for an offense. I kind of lean on
the other side of it is there's also the side
of the NFL where we need explosive plays and if
we're not getting those out of the passing game because

(50:44):
we're not seeing as much single high, not as much
man coverage, a lot more zone, a lot of teams
saying in past defense structures that are saying we are
going to take away your ability to get explosive plays
through the passing game, So we need explosive plays through
the ground game.

Speaker 4 (51:01):
If that is.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
The way that NFL offenses and teams and coordinators are
approaching this, and they're going to approach that with how
they're building their team, how they're designing their offense and
looking for the players that have the skill sets to
maximize those those plays and this type of idea of
what how do we want to function as an offense.

(51:22):
Scataboo doesn't fit that at all. So okay, Well, if
he's not going to be the ever down guy, if
he's not going to get the volume, then what is
he in the NFL? Probably the one B at a committee,
Probably the goal line guy, Probably the short yardage guy.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
Probably a guy that's.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Going to live in the nine to fifteen carries type
of range. Maybe if it's a team that's a lot
of positive game script. He's salting the way the clock
and for all of.

Speaker 4 (51:48):
That, I just look at it. He's probably more.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Like the hyped up version of Tyler Algier than he
is going to be the next coming of Kareem Hunt
in the NFL.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Yeah, I get it. I agree with everything you said.
The only thing I would add is a like I
think that he is a great kid. I think he
is a team leader. We talked about earlier on this
on this program in a different episode, that he is
someone who lost a ton of weight coming into his
senior season. He was a team captain. I think a
team is going to fall in love with him. I

(52:21):
think he does get into day two because I could
see Mike Tomlin snatching him up in the third round
and loving this guy and hit him being the one
be the Jalen Warren e j where you kind of
out on cam skataboo because obviously, just between Deebro and I,
very polarizing, yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:35):
Very polarizing player.

Speaker 3 (52:36):
I was happy to see his name on the list
because I think he's worthy of a lot of these conversations.
And honestly, I'd say I split the difference between you two.
I okay, I think there are a lot of things
that you can like about his game.

Speaker 5 (52:49):
They're not typically the things that college fans look.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
The things that college fans like are going to translate
less well to the NFL. But there are still a
lot of things that teams like about a guy like
camp Scattabo. He is unquestionably tough and he plays that way,
and NFL decision makers love that the right or wrong,
they dig it. That comes with mileage. That comes where

(53:16):
some teams aren't wild about that. The passing game is
very underrated for him. He is one of the better
pass receiving backs in this class, and that is a
valuable role because if you're going to come in be
hard nosed in pass protection and you know, then release
chip and release stuff, he's going to be a weapon
for you. Again, you can get small explosive plays on

(53:38):
the perimeter out of the passing game, which is really
substituting for the run game.

Speaker 5 (53:42):
Camp Scatabo could.

Speaker 3 (53:43):
Be worthwhile there.

Speaker 5 (53:45):
If you're a.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
College fan and you think he's going to come in
and get twenty five or thirty carries, Hey, nobody gets
that right. Even usually combined, we're not rushing the ball
thirty to thirty five times a game in the NFL,
we're lucky if we run it twenty five times a game.
We do need more pop from each.

Speaker 5 (54:01):
One of those.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Now, can you get it creatively? Right now, we're back
into the kind of Luther Burden argument of well, if
we set him up here and we get him one
on one with a one hundred and eighty pound defensive back,
I think he can take him. Well. Sure, and he
will do that a couple of times and it will
be exciting, just like it was in the college football playoff.
Can you build an offense out of that? Right?

Speaker 5 (54:20):
Can you make a lunch in his ingredients?

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Not week to week typically doesn't mean he doesn't have
a roster spot, doesn't mean he's not going to be
a beloved teammate, doesn't mean he's not going to be
a tone set on the goal line in short yardage,
third down, set in the edge against pass rushers, then
getting out catching a little pass and rumbling for eighteen
yards because he does get a one hundred and eighty
pound defensive back one on one, those will be the

(54:43):
kind of places he makes. But those are around the
edges plays. Those aren't sort of main dish plays so
up top. People are talking about him. You know, early on,
right after the college PLAYERFF, people were talking about him
as a first round running back. Now way too rich
for me.

Speaker 5 (54:55):
Second round running back. Day three, I can see it.
I'm with you.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
End of day three, compensatory picks start to come into it.
Somebody goes, hey, we want this right, we want all
those things that he is right or wrong and only
takes one. That's about where it starts for me or
sorry not day three, round.

Speaker 5 (55:13):
Three, my bad? Okay, okay, yeah yeah, end.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Of round three, day two like compensitory picks. Yeah, anywhere
on the third day, sure, all the positives. You go, look,
we need this. He's going to fill this niche in
or running back room. He is not going to be
our one A. He is not going to be our
future shining hope for EPA in the run game. That
is not We're going into this with eyes wide open
and saying he is complimentary in a way that we like.

(55:39):
He's got a lot of good skills.

Speaker 5 (55:40):
It's proven.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
We love the kid, we love the guy, we love
the work or whatever that is. Yeah, they're gonna do it.
So could we see him at the end of Day two.
I think we absolutely could. That's probably where it starts
for me, and I think a lot of people are,
you know, generally higher on him than that. We're going
to get through round two for sure in Arizona State
fans are going.

Speaker 5 (55:57):
To be like, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Did you not see this guy?

Speaker 5 (56:01):
And it happens every year and we'll see how it goes.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
Yeah, I'm with you. I think he is the guy
if you want to if you're an NFL team and
you want to take the Pat doll Packers approach and
you want to draft to guys and build your backfield
and diversify skill sets, He's the guy that you take
to be the early down thumper and then you take
one of these passing down specialists maybe later, or a

(56:25):
guy that's going to give you big playability and you
team them together for the future.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
That's it, like a Jayden Blue or something like that.

Speaker 2 (56:34):
Yeah, like Jadane Blue, Marcus Charn's for sure Smith, Like
you know, like, let's you know, keep going down the
arc type of guys that are to give you explosives.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Ye okay, real quick, before we round out the show
with one final polarizing prospect, I did want to remind
everyone to use our Dicey Rookie Draft simulator lets you
complete a mock draft in minutes with no waiting between picks.
You actually customize your league settings to match your league's
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test trade scenarios by mocking with your traded draft picks.

(57:05):
Prepare for rookie drafts and dynasty startup drafts in one place.
Use the Dynacey Rookie Draft Simulary to dominate your rookie
draft today at fantasypros dot com Slash simulator.

Speaker 4 (57:16):
All right, gentlemen, let's.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Go ahead and round it out with a tight end
here with arguably one of the greatest tight end seasons
in recent history. It's Harold fan and junior coming out
of Bowling Green one hundred and seventeen receptions over fifteen
hundred yards, MAC Offensive Player of the Year consensus All American. However,
at six foot three, two hundred and forty one pounds,
he ran a four seven to one second forty yard dash.

(57:37):
Many have described the Canton, Ohio native as a quote
tweener that he won't be on the field for all
three downs. Do you share those same concerns, EJ.

Speaker 5 (57:47):
I think so.

Speaker 3 (57:48):
But I also think the conversation around Harold Fanage Union has.

Speaker 5 (57:52):
Again kind of gone too far.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
We opened the show talking about Scheduer, and some of
those conversations have gone too far. I have people dropping
him down to like the end of day through, and
I'm like, did you not see him play football? Because
he keeps doing it, regardless of what he ran, regardless
of his size, regardless of the offense. He keeps doing it.
And you keep coming up with excuses why he didn't
or why he can't or why he won't, and he

(58:15):
keeps doing it. And he did it over and over
and over again. You talked about the production was outstanding,
one hundred and fifty targets, one hundred and seventeen catches,
fifteen hundred yards. Like, at some point, dude's a baller.
He can play football. He's six three two forty one.
You know Mason Taylor, who's a much larger athlete with
NFL lineage, and they're like, he's six five to fifty one.

(58:38):
Wait a minute, he's ten pounds heavier. We're doing this
over ten pounds again, right. You look at the times
that tight ends ran at Indy. I was a little
disappointed by them in general as a class. Ran high
on the tight end class and thinking, oh, this is
incredibly deep, and I came out of Indy I kind.

Speaker 5 (58:56):
Of reversed the wide receiver at tight end classes.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
I went in thinking this is a weak wide receiver
class and a really strong tight end class. Kind of
left Indianapolis like reversing that, going there are some good
tight ends here, but it drops off more quickly than
I thought it did, and you're gonna get less when
you get farther down. And the wide receivers kind of
snuck up on me, and I was like, there's some
sneaky depth there. So again, Harold Fan and Junior, you
watch the tape and you say, hey, this is the

(59:20):
way that he wins, this is who he is. Does
it translate to Sunday? There's a lot of players that
win just like he does in the NFL?

Speaker 5 (59:29):
Are they faster?

Speaker 3 (59:30):
Generally?

Speaker 5 (59:31):
At his size? They are?

Speaker 3 (59:32):
I get it, But at some point there's all that production.

Speaker 5 (59:36):
Is he gonna have all that production in the NFL?

Speaker 3 (59:38):
No, I don't think you're drafting him thinking oh, this
is going to be a thousand yard tight end. But
there are a lot of very good five hundred yard
tight ends in the NFL. And if you're telling me
that Harold Fan and Junior can't do that, I'm telling
you I think you're wrong.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Okay, what do you think, Derek Brown? Are you wrong?

Speaker 3 (59:54):
No?

Speaker 4 (59:54):
I'm with EJ on that.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I guess I'll bounce this back to AJ roof fast
before I kind of lay into it.

Speaker 4 (01:00:00):
AJ.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Do you think where do you put his draft stock?
Do you think he gets into round three? Like?

Speaker 4 (01:00:05):
I don't, I don't. I don't think there's a chance
he goes around two of the NFL.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
No, I don't think so either, because because of the
outlier status, right Yeah, gms in the NFL are risk averse.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
And I think somebody's gonna believe it not to pick
a guy, somebody's guy to really believe in him to
take him round three too, So like, are you with me?

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Like?

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
Probably round four.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
I think he's gonna be one of those players that
a lot of people are surprised when Day three comes around.
He's probably gonna be on that list like best of
the players. I can't believe this guy that was this
wildly productive is still here. There are reasons for that.
Do I think he goes pretty early on day three?
I do. Could I see him like scatabout going at
the end of day two again, you know, if you're

(01:00:48):
building your tight end room, if you've got the other
guys or the other archetypes, and you're like your offensive
coordinator is like, I want this guy because I know
how I'm gonna use him. Yeah, I could see it
happening again. Working to see a lot of that top
to bottom in this draft where our evaluations don't line
up with the leagues because there's this wide middle of
talent that has a very sort of similar grade base.

(01:01:10):
So we're going to see these huge round variations. I
thought he was the second round guy. Oh he went
in the fourth. I thought he was a fifth round guy.
He went at the end of the second. What happened
Like teams just view them differently. So I could see
a room with a built tight end room looking for
this piece, this role player to play and be a
flexible piece in let's just call it four wide receiver

(01:01:30):
sets because it's three wide receivers and Harold Fannin and
you know, working those underneath spots. He's very good against zone.
He just finds a way to keep doing is one
of those players you're like, he doesn't look that fast, Well, sure.

Speaker 5 (01:01:43):
Enough, he's not that fast.

Speaker 3 (01:01:44):
Yeah, he just getting open, keeps making the catches contested
catches situations too. And you're like, at some point you
just got about out of the production and go, it's
not going to be NFL production at that level. But
to tell me this guy doesn't produce. Production does translate
from college to the pros, both on the offensive side
and the defensive side. When a guy is this much production,
it's beyond like, oh, we schemed him open some Like

(01:02:07):
the guy knows how to play football, He's going to
be able to keep doing it at.

Speaker 5 (01:02:10):
The next level.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
I think we see Harold Fannin in a very very
similar light, like I don't. I don't think then from
the way that you're contextualizing his game, you don't see
him as being a three down full time like eighty
five percent starting, eighty five percent snap starting tight end
in the NFL. And I don't either, And that's what
I think, Like a lot of people are projecting that
he can be that type of guy, and I just

(01:02:32):
don't see that. Like my comp I think perfectly encapsulates
what I see at his in the NFL. He's Isaiah Likely.
To me, he's just Isaiah Likely two point zero in
a lot of different ways. Now there are subtle differences
to his game and likely and stuff like that, Like
we could a long conversation about all that. But I
think he's the guy that he's going to be the
tight end too on your roster. He's going to come

(01:02:53):
in when you play in twelve. You could flex him
into the slot. Like I don't think he's gonna be
the guy you're asking the down blocks at the edge,
like he's in line. He's not the guy that you're
going to play eighty five percent of the snaps. And
that's where I think the polarizing part comes in here
and the tweeter conversation of because even the guys that
have operated in that hyper specific like big slot super

(01:03:17):
like Mike Aseeki's of the world and stuff like that, they.

Speaker 4 (01:03:19):
Are ridiculous other world type of athletes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
And going back to an earlier point, Ejma and I
think this perfectly encapsulates Fannin when you talk about NFL
and NFL offensive coordinators and just coaches carving out roles
and saying I need to do this and this and
this and this and this to get you involved, to
create a role for you, versus guys that come in

(01:03:43):
and say I can do everything. I'm earning role, I'm
earning snaps, I can be the every down guy. This
is the guy where you put him in that Luther
Burden type of bucket. You put him in that bucket
where we need to make a lot of concessions on
how we're using him, how we're utilizing him, what he
can and can't do. And for me, that's where the

(01:04:03):
tweener label is. I mean it's perfect because I think Fannin,
where his athletic limitations are, his feet make up for
a lot of Like I think his hips are more stiff,
and I think you see that in his routes and
things like that and sinking his hips at the top
and how you can utilize him. But again, as a
player that we saw win down the seam in college

(01:04:25):
at Bowl and Green, that's a whole lot easier to
do when you're running a four to seven versus the NFL,
and you got linebackers that are right with you, and
so you're probably not gonna it's not going to be
a clean catch point, so you're gonna have to muscle
up some dudes or win with body control or back shoulders.
And can he is he a guy that you can
consistently ask to stretch the stretch the field down the seam. No,

(01:04:47):
I don't think so in the NFL. Could he do
it on occasion or sneak down the seam, sure, but
being a true pass game weapon where he's changing the
math of how defenses are going to have I have
to account for and play an offense with him in it.
I don't see him as a math changer. And to me,
to operate in this role at a high level end

(01:05:10):
to buck the trend, you need to be a guy
that changes the math like we're seeing Dalton kin Kaid
is like the high end of like what he's even
facing like sixty and sixty five percent route chairs in
the NFL right now. And I know a lot of
contexts with injuries last year play into that, but fan
and again, I see him as being a solid player
in the NFL. I just see Isaiah likely he's going

(01:05:32):
to be a twelve personnel tight end. And for me,
if I'm an NFL GM and stuff like that. That's not
a player I'm drafting in the second round of the
NFL draft. That's not a player that I'm drafting in
the third round. That's not a player that maybe I'm
even pushing the button for depending on how our board
stacks up, even in round four. Like so, again, I

(01:05:53):
love the player, I like his skill set, But transitioning
this to the NFL, I'm more worry that instead of
a team leaning into this and saying we will do this,
we will carve out a role. You will be a
folk rome and the number two in our passing attack,
I worry more that there is more there, that he
gets Isaiah Likelead, that he gets je Jaheim Beld, and

(01:06:16):
that he falls into late round four, round five.

Speaker 1 (01:06:20):
Well, gentlemen, great discussion today, EJ. Thank you so much
for joining us. Can you tell us how we can
best find support your content throughout the rest of this
twenty twenty five NFL Draft process and beyond, my friend.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Absolutely, head to YouTube type in bootleg football.

Speaker 5 (01:06:34):
You'll find most of things there. If you want even
more than that, go to Patreon. Type in the same thing,
and as.

Speaker 3 (01:06:39):
You mentioned, bear Era for the bear specific stuff for
them Chicago die Hards.

Speaker 5 (01:06:45):
I guess we'll call him.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
I'll calls how was gonna be unfortunately whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:06:50):
Yeah, we take that label proudly. Yeah, you can find
it in any of those three places.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
Awesome. Well that's going to do it for us today
on the Fantasy Pros NFL Draft Show. Thank you, Thank
you all so much for watching. A reminder that Debro
and I will be live on the Fantasy Pros YouTube
channel each of the next few Mondays three pm Eastern Time,
taking your NFL Draft questions. Our entire team will also
be live throughout Day one and Day two of the
NFL Draft. Again, please like this video if you enjoy it,

(01:07:16):
subscribe to the Fantasy Pros YouTube channel and the podcast
feed for Derek Brown and EJ.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
Snyder.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
I'm Sethablecock take care of y'all. Thanks for listening to
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the best freeway to support us is by leaving a
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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Polarizing 2025 NFL Draft Prospects with EJ Snyder (Ep. 227)