Are Jameson Williams & Jayden Reed Draft Day Steals or Risky Picks? | Fantasy Football Draft Court Debates (Ep. 1645) - FantasyPros - Fantasy Football Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
All rise court is in session here on Fantasy Pros.
This is me Joey P joe P Zapia and welcome to
Judge Joey aka Fantasy Football Draft Cord, where today we're
gonna debate five players, with Andrew Erickson being aggressive in
terms of his ranking and Pat fitz Morris is going

(00:23):
to attempt to throw some cold water, and you, the audience,
will decide at the end of the day whether or
not you're gonna draft these players. So make sure you
like this video, make sure you hang out with us
here the entire show so your voice can be heard.
And of course we're trying to get to three hundred
thousand subscribers here on Fantasy Pros this year, and we
could do it with your help. Gentlemen, I'm glad you've
come dressed for the occasion today. I've seen you've worn

(00:47):
the best suits that you had to my court. You're
already pretty far behind right now in terms of the fashion,
but we have no choice. We gotta go forward here
regardless of what's going on here. So Pat fitz Morris,
I am assume that you've been preparing all of your briefs,
but I know the question everybody wants to know here
watching the show Boxers or briefs for Pat fitz Morris.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Oh, it's got to be Boxers, Yes, and I have
finished preparing my briefs show. I mean, young mister Ericson
felt the sting of my lash a few weeks ago,
and the bad news for him is that I mean
even more pugnacious mood today than I was that.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
Oh, the sting of the lash pugnacious. Andrew Erickson, are
you even gonna stand what the hell's coming out of
Pat's mouth?

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Here?

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Are you gonna need like a Theosaurus and a dictionary
to make sure you understand what kind of arguments he's
making in the first place?

Speaker 4 (01:37):
Yeah, I was gonna ask for a five minute break
so I could go pick up my Theosaurus and dictionary
to get an idea of what he's actually.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Objection overruled. We're gonna continue on here again. We've got
fun things to give away too before we get started,
so make sure you're with us. Drop your comments below.
You got questions you want to comment, you can get
here on this show. But let's instead begin Fantasy football
draft court today with a very high octane wide receiver
that's right. This first guy we're going to talk about

(02:05):
plays for the Lions. Now, the Lions are going to
have a new offense rolling around here in twenty twenty
five because Ben Johnson left for Chicago, Tanner Engstrom left
for the Jets, and now it's a new OC It's
a new day, yes it is, but will it be
the same old Jamison Williams, he's the first players to
debate today at Fantasy Court. Court is in session. Let's

(02:27):
talk about Jamison Williams here because in terms of the
rankings Andrew ericson Aggressive Wide Receiver twenty two, that's actually
higher than the ECR of twenty five and the ADP
of twenty seven. Just for discovery last year fifty eight receptions,
one thousand and one yard, one extra one for good measure,
and seven touchdowns for Jamison Williams also had a rushing touchdown.

(02:49):
Fun fact there two rushing touchdowns in the last two years.
Also fun. He has get to play every single game
of a season for a myriad of reasons. That's another
big word, Andrew Ericson. I hope you're following a law
and now we're going to get an opportunity to see
who's right and who's wrong. Because Fitzi's got him at thirty,
he's even lower than the ECR and the ADP ericson

(03:10):
being aggressive path Fitz Morris, you may begin your opening
arguments as to why Andrew Erickson is too aggressive when
it comes to this flashy young wide receiver, Won Jamison Williams.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Jamison Williams averaged six point one targets per game last season.
That's a pretty modest number. We want more than six
point one targets per game from our starting fantasy receivers.
And yet Jamison Williams was able to finish wide receiver
twenty in half point PPR Fantasy points per game, wide
receiver twenty six in full PPR fantasy points per game.

(03:43):
Very impressive, and to finish inside wide receiver two range
or just outside it and PPR scoring required JMO to
be incredibly efficient with his targets.

Speaker 5 (03:55):
Last season.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
He averaged seventeen point three yards per catch, eleven yards
per target, two point one zero yards per targets.

Speaker 5 (04:02):
Those are all.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Sensational efficiency numbers, so might even call them unsustainably sensational numbers.
So for Jamison Williams to have another wide receiver two season,
he would either have to maintain his freakish efficiency numbers,
which frankly seems unlikely, or grow his target share. And

(04:24):
target share growth seems like maybe the more plausible of
those two pass for Jamison Williams, at least until you
consider that the Lions ran the second most offensive plays
in the NFL last season, and then consider that aman
Ross Saint Brown averaged only eight point three targets per
game last season, a three year low for him, So

(04:45):
it seems unlikely aman Ro's target share drops any farther
than that. And Sam Laporte and Jamier Gibbs are also
very involved in the Detroit passing game, so it's hard
to see Jamison Williams maintaining his twenty twenty four efficiency
and it's hard to see him, say, magnificantly expanding his
target shair. I just think it's pure wish casting to

(05:05):
rank Jamison Williams inside wide receiver two range.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
Wow, he just called Andrew Erickson a wish caster. On
his resume, he calls himself a podcaster. We'll see at
the end of this argument which one is true. Andrew
Erickson Jamison Williams a guy who look if you look,
get back at the game log. Last year, four touchdowns
in his last five games came on strong. Now he
has a little boomer bust, a lot of you know,
wide receiver four, wide receiver nine, wide receiver seven finishes

(05:31):
in the second half, but also a fifty one to
thirty one, a twenty eight, and a thirty nine. So
not always exactly the model of consistency. So the argument
for booking him this year to be an absolute stud
here at wide receiver twenty two is very aggressive. Defend
your stance on Jamison Williams and this aggressive ranking of yours.

Speaker 4 (05:53):
Well, I'm here too as a wishcaster that Fitzmorris has
laid out who I am.

Speaker 6 (05:57):
I'm here to make dreams come true.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
And that's what's going to hap up for Jameson Williams
here in year four because I think that he is
going to see his volume increase because like you said earlier, Joe,
where we talked about Jamison Williams hasn't played a full
season throughout his entire NFL career. This is the first
time he's not coming off an injury or dealing with
the suspension. He is all in and all invested into
this Lion's offense with the new OC. That the first

(06:21):
thing that this new OC does when he lands in
Detroit is he talks about this is going to be
a breakout year for Jamison Williams. And you think back, Wait,
wasn't last year a breakout year for Jameson Williams. It was,
and now they're doubled downing on that. So last year
I wasn't as in tune with the hype about JMO.
I wasn't paying attention to it enough. And I made
sure that I wasn't going to make that mistake again.

(06:42):
Because they're doing it again. It's John Moore and it's
Dan Campbell. They're all saying the sky's the limit for
Jamison Williams because I think the volume is going to
be there for him. I don't think it's by accident
that Jamison Willams the first time that he plays the
most games in his career, it coincides with a target
share dip for aman Ros say break. I don't think
that was by accident. And when you take away Ben

(07:03):
Johnson from this offense, why are we trying to figure
out who the bear slot receiver is going to be?
Because we know Ben Johnson offensers are always focused on
the slot player. Well, now you're removing him from the
equation in Detroit, maybe they're not going to be so
focused on getting the ball to I'm on Russaint Brown.
Maybe they're gonna be focused on getting to the ball
to this explosive fourth year player who has fifteen career touchdowns,

(07:23):
eleven of which have been thirty or more yards. He
is a human highlight reel. I think that Jameson Williams
is really special. I thought that when he came out
of college, but it's just been a slow burn because
of the injuries and because of the nonsense the off
the field's concerns. But I don't have any of that anymore. Again, Yes,
he was efficient last year because he's good thirty NFL
yards after catch per reception. So I think that the

(07:46):
efficiency is screaming, Hey, we need to get this guy
the ball more often. And even the second half of
last year where we really saw him take off, his
target share was almost in line with a'm on russ
Saint Brown, except for that one game in Week fifteen
or I'm on Ross Saint Brown had eighteen targets. You
remove that from the equation. It's a pretty flat target
share between him Jamo Samuela Porta. So I think that

(08:07):
the ball is going to be there. That's where I
disagree with fits because he is efficient and doesn't take
a rocket science to think, hey, this guy's really good
with the ball in his hands, let's get him the
ball more.

Speaker 1 (08:16):
Certainly a great career for him in Alabama where he
was the explosive, big playmaker, and certainly a lot of
nonsense has followed around Jamison Williams. So there's a lot
to take in here. Any rebuttals Pat Fitzmorris to some
of the arguments that Andrew Rickson's laid out here for Jamo, Yeah,
I mean.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I would push back on the possibility of a volume increase.
Just again, the Lions were second in offensive plays last year.
They were first in touchdowns, So maybe the scoring outlook
and the touchdown outlook isn't quite as bright for the
members of that offense. And you know, the let's just say,
we're going to file away Ericson's contention that Ben Johnson

(08:55):
liked to funnel targets to the slot receiver. We're going
to file that one away for later.

Speaker 6 (09:02):
Is that it everywhere. Jarvis Landry remembers. It's the same.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Thing I did do. Remember Jarvis Landry, What a fine
young man he was. Never saw him in my court,
Tyreek Hill once or twice. Once or twice did see him.
But now we turn it over to all of you.
So the poll is up. Officially, we want to hear
from all of you. Will you be drafting Jamison Williams
at his cost? Here we've got again Pepwitz Morris wide

(09:28):
Receiver thirty saying no, no, no, it's too high. Andrew
Erickson saying it's time to get in on the young
twenty four year old. So now officially we turn it
over to you. The jury is under deliberation. You vote
right now. Drop your comments while we're waiting. Some fun
comments here. One from jury in the chat my one
O one pick says that Judge Joey has no bottoms

(09:49):
on under that robe. I'll let your imagination decide what
that is. Perhaps, if we have time, we'll put a
pole up for that too, No puns intended. All right,
let's so continue on here because we've got amazing things
going on here. Fantasy Bros, don't forget make sure to
subscribe to the channel. Do everything here like the stream
and vote right now as we're waiting to vote Andrew Erickson.

(10:11):
When you're looking for let's say, explosiveness out of your
wide receiver three, which is kind of where he's going
right right on that fringe wide receiver twenty five, right
twenty seven somewhere in the ADP. To me, Williams is
exactly that kind of guy. I want the boomer bust guy.
I want the guy that can win me a week
because I'm not looking for floor from number three necessarily.

(10:32):
I'm looking for the guy that could make the big
splash play, but is his best role potentially the later
you get him, especially in a wide receiver let's say
two wide receiver league where you can play Jamison Williams
as a flex guy.

Speaker 6 (10:46):
I mean, I think that the ADP is a better
grip in where you want to draft him. Ideally.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
I mean, I have wide receiver twenty two because I
want people to be aggressive trying to get him, because
when you look in that range, that cluster of receivers,
there's a lot of guys that that type of bill
that you were kind of describing a usually a wide
receiver three flex play, but I think with Jamison Williams,
I think that there can be more for him. You know,
I don't think that it's too outmantage to think that
he could outscore I'm on ros Saint Brown this year again.

(11:14):
If we Week one comes and he out targets, I'm
on Roussaint Brown. What are we going to be saying
after that? It's one game, but it's a new offense,
and I just don't want to ignore all the signs
and all the fire coming out of Detroit training camp
where it's Jamison Williams, James and Williams James and Williams
Pat fitz Morris.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Right around that SAMEADP, you've got Rushie Rice Xavior Worthy.
Are you telling me that you would rather have Xavier
Worthy than Jamison Williams.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, I mean Xavier Worthy caught fifty balls over his
last eight games last year, like his his breakout over
the back half of the season, well that stretched into
the playoff too, that includes playoff games. But his breakthrough
late in the year was legitimate, I think, and even
with Rishie Rice there, I feel like Worthy is still
going to be able to earn targets. So yeah, I mean,

(12:01):
both guys are not clearly the number one target earners
on their respective teams, and you know, are maybe third
in the packing order.

Speaker 5 (12:09):
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
I think I feel a little bit better about the
Kansas City offense than I do the Detroit offense this year.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
Well, the jury has come back from deliberation. They've been
sequestered for quite some time. They have returned, and they've
returned with a verdict. And the verdict is in and
I will read it, Pat Fitzmorris, perhaps no lashings, at
least not in this round of Fantasy Court, because seventy
one percent of people here today agree with Andrew Erickson

(12:38):
Jamison Williams that boy's getting drafted. Case dismissed. Let's go.
So there you have our first decision of many here.
We've got four more debates to come. Don't worry, Pat,
I'm sure you're just giving the kid one there to
feel confident and then you know, I kind of smack
him around in the back end of this show here.
Don't forget everybody as are watching the show today, drop

(13:01):
your comments, subscribe to the channel, ring the belt till
it goes ding, because when you do all those things,
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you know you're the big winner of the AJ Brown
autographed helmet. Our next victim or should I say defendant
here at court is actually one close to mister cheese
at himself, Pat fitz Morris. Pat has a love hate
relationship with the packers and the lactose intolerance. Sometimes a

(14:08):
love hate relationship with Cheese as well. However, today on
the program, we're gonna cut right to the chase and
we're gonna look at Jaden Reed. Now, Jaden Reed a
guy that has come on and been a useful I
would say fantasy wide receiver for sure. Last year a
bit of a disappointment, but then again, Jordan Love was
hurt most of the year, and his rookie season, Jaden

(14:28):
Reid played sixteen games, had sixty four receptions for seven
hundred and ninety three yards and eight touchdowns. Last year
a bit of a dip, went from ninety four targets
to just seventy five targets even though he played one
more game only had fifty five receptions just six touchdowns,
So again a step backward sophomore slump. Perhaps a lot
of these things might be true on Fantasy pros. Currently,

(14:49):
his ADP is wide receiver forty four, the ECRs wide
receiver forty two, but Andrew Rickson he is far more aggressive.
He is at wide receiver thirty four, so he believes
in Jaden Reed at Fitz Morris is a little closer
here at forty one to the consensus to what's happening
in those drafting streets. So Pat fitz Morris, once again,

(15:09):
it's time to go to Fantasy draft court. Court is
in session, and I am judge Joey, an executioner. Let's
talk about Jaden Reid. Tell us why Andrew Erickson is
too aggressive on this Packer wide out?

Speaker 5 (15:22):
Well, your honor.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
The defense seems to like betting on high efficiency wide
receivers to either maintain their high efficiency or even more
and probably improve it upon their target share. And Jan
Reid has averaged nine point eight yards per target and
two point one three yards per rout run over his
first two NFL seasons.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
Those are excellent numbers. But here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
Jane Reid rarely plays in two receiver sets for the
Green Bay Packers. He's usually on the field only when
the Packers go to three receiver four receiver sets, and
as a result, Jane Reid only had a sixty three
percent snapshare last year. Now, the Packers spent a first
round draft pick on University of Texas wide receiver Matthew Golden,

(16:05):
who instantly becomes Green Bay's fastest offensive player. The addition
of Golden isn't going to make it any easier for
Jaden Reed to get on the field for two receiver sets.

Speaker 5 (16:16):
So again, for Jade Reed to.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Live up to the sort of lofty ranking that mister
arrison Ericson has given him, Reid would either have to
get a bigger snapshare, which seems unlikely, or improve upon
his already sterling efficiency numbers, which also seems unlikely.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Unlikely potential they are efficiency returning for Jaden Reed and
Matthew Golden, of course, making things a little bit more complicated.
It's been a bit of a cluster, so to speak.
Maybe more of a curd? Is that a better way
to describe the wide receiver corps of the Packers? Perhaps? Okay,
a bit of a curdy situation here. So Andrew Erickson,
why does this curd right here rise to the top

(16:57):
of the water. You want to pluck out, pop in
your mouth or pop on your foster here and get
him going this season? Certainly a guy that's been looked
to in the red zone for Jordan Love. Is it
just as easy as a healthy Jordan Love means a
bounce back for Jayden Reid.

Speaker 6 (17:10):
I think that's a big part of it.

Speaker 4 (17:12):
I think that what fits laid out is kind of
making the argument for me where I want to bet
on these highly efficient players to get more volume. I
think that the coaches take it when they're looking at
who can we get the ball to? Who are we
designing plays for it, Let's get the ball to our
best players. I truly believe that Jayden Reid is still
one of the best playmakers on the Green Bay Packers,
and fits laid out how efficient he has been the

(17:33):
last two seasons. Despite having a down year last year,
he was still top twenty in terms of yards per
route one despite playing with the quarterback who injured his
groin in Week one and miss time. He had to
play a bunch of games with Malik Willis where they
never threw the ball.

Speaker 6 (17:47):
So in a.

Speaker 4 (17:48):
Situation where the Packers are playing more up tempo, they're
playing in more shootouts in the very competitive NFC North, well,
they're gonna have no choice but to play Jayden Reid
more because they have to score points with these other
high power offenses in that division. So that's part of
the reason why I like Jayden Reid, and yeah I
have him at wide receiver thirty four. That's baking in

(18:08):
the fact that he doesn't play in a lot of
these two receiver sets. That's already considered in the price
wide receiver forty four and ADP. That's more than capturing
that because last year it was the same situation. He
was still wide receiver twenty six overall. So he was
already beating this ADP last season despite not having an
expanded role, and before his Week four so weeks one

(18:29):
through thirteen, if already that Week fourteen doud where he
basically got zero points, he was a top ten wide
receiver wide receiver eight overall, wide receiver eighteen in terms
of points per game. So yes, I do totally agree
with Fitz's point about the usage for Jayden Reed. Whether
that changes or whether it doesn't remains to be seen,
but it's already considered in the price tag and how

(18:50):
suppressed it is. I'm just gonna better on the talent
and him being a player that takes advantage of an
offense that is more productive through the air.

Speaker 6 (18:57):
In twenty twenty five.

Speaker 1 (19:00):
It's Morris Andrew does bring up a very good point
Malik Willis in some of those games. Looking at week two.
In week three, when he started, Jayden Reied was wide
receiver forty eight and forty two. Week eight wide receiver
fifty seven. Week sixteen was another week where he got
Malik Willis. He was wide receiver thirty five. Boyl boy,
that's pretty bad. Are you sure you're not misplacing some
of your disdain for what happened last year in Green

(19:22):
Bay with Malik Willis playing more than he should have
and transferring that unfairly to one Jaden Reed?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Well, your honor, Jordan Love was there for the Packers'
last nine games of the season, including their playoff loss,
and Jane Reid exceeded. He got to fifty yards once
in the last nine games, just once.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Fair you were very, very ready for that question. I
appreciate that Andrew Erickson has made his argument for being
aggressive with Jayden Reed, Pat fitz Morris as pump the brakes,
But what do you say? Drop your comments below, and
of course it's time to vote, so vote right now.
It's open. Are we drafting Jayden Reid here or are

(20:07):
we letting him pass through our fingers? The Packers certainly
had a lot of mouths if he last year, But
is Jaden Reid now going to be the guy that
gets out there and figures it out. Dennis thinks that
Reid is only good for best ball, so just putting
that out there, would you agree with that? Ericson? Are
you are you looking at him in the best ball streets?

Speaker 6 (20:25):
Yeah? I think so.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
I mean, he definitely has that spikey potential, especially when
it comes to because part of my argument is the
Packers are going to be throwing more.

Speaker 6 (20:32):
I think their passing game is going to be more efficient.

Speaker 4 (20:34):
And when would you see spikes in their passing game
would be in shootout conditions, which you don't always know
pre game if a game is going to be a
potential shootout or not.

Speaker 6 (20:43):
So.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Pat Fitzmorris, how do you feel about Jaden Reid best ball?

Speaker 5 (20:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:47):
I do like him, and he does get some rushing
opportunities I have to acknowledge. I think that's probably the
best way to harness the volatility in his profile. And
by the way, while the jury deliberates you, I've never
been so hopeful that there are a lot of Bears
and Vikings fans in the house just so they can

(21:08):
stuff the ballot against a Green Bay pack.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Right while waiting. Yeah, while we're waiting here for that
ballot stuffing again, you know, I don't want to shenanigans
in my courtroom, right. I am not afraid to send
somebody to prison overnight or even for a couple of days.
I just I refuse to have any shenanigans going on here.
This is a court of law and order and rules, unless,
of course, you write a big check to me, which
case I'm open to it. I'm listening. I can send

(21:33):
me my PayPal, Venmo. Any of those things will work
for me. What I'm saying is I can be bought.
That's what I'm saying here. But one thing that is
also very important in the same of year is good advice.
So while the jury is deliberating, make sure you get
that advice. Not just here in our YouTube channel anymore. No, No,
you can also get it on our twitch Twitch dot
tv Slash Fantasy Pros. That's the place to be five

(21:53):
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(22:15):
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So let's take a look here at the results, and
I gotta say overwhelming this debate has become here even

(22:37):
higher than the last one seventy one percent. This might
be a new draft court record. I gotta say I'm
a little shocked here by how much this number has
swung here and then has swung in the favor of
one Patrick Anthony Fitzmorris. Eighty five percent say no, they
are not drafting Jaden Reid. I'm sorry, guilty as charged.

Speaker 4 (23:00):
I am zero for two defending Jade Reid. He needs
to hire a new attorney.

Speaker 6 (23:04):
That's not me.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yes, well, you know, unfortunately it's tough, but aew Erickson
takes solace in this. Take solace in this. You can
get him in the forties if you like him right,
he is a value there, and I think that's the
point to be made here. There's upside when you're looking
around some of the other guys being drafted at same range.
Not all those guys have the same sort of I
guess flashes of productivity that Jayden Reid has had, and

(23:26):
I think that's something to remember. I mean, Khalil Shakir,
you know, is okay, Deebo Samuel a little unclear. I'm
sure Ricky Pearsall will be a guy people will be
aggressive on. But I'll tell you after Stefan Diggs and
Rickey Pearsall, I'm looking around here and Cooper Cup, Josh Downs,
I don't know, man, I think I take a shot
on Jayden Reid.

Speaker 6 (23:44):
There, I agree.

Speaker 4 (23:46):
I mean, I can't fathom taking Cooper Cup over Jayden
Reid a slot receiver. I mean, I'm taking the guy
with juice, the young player.

Speaker 6 (23:55):
M M.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Pat Fitzmorris, Jaden Reid or Cooper Cup.

Speaker 5 (23:58):
Oh, Jayden Reid.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Okay, there we go. We finally got on the same
page there. So Fantasy Court has come to a decision.
Jaden Reid will not be drafted in twenty twenty five,
at least not by pafitz Morris and everyone watching the
show right now, on to the next one. Our next
defendantier that we're going to bring into the court room
is a young wide receiver, a rookie. He hasn't even

(24:19):
taken a snap yet in the NFL, but some of
us are very excited about one Jaden Higgins. Now he's
also the first guy to ever get a fully guaranteed
contract as a second round pick. Judge Joey always tells
you what boys and girls follow the money. When you
follow the money, you end up with targets. You end
up with fantasy productivity most of the time. And sure

(24:40):
it could be a little slower. They were Christian Kirk
in the beginning. I'm sure that's gonna be part of
this argument. Currently, the ADP here is wide receiver fifty
three on Fantasy Pros, which you could see at fantasypros
dot com. All the consensus ADPs from the Yahoo's, the Sleepers,
the ESPN, YadA, YadA, YadA, the ECR, the expert consensus
ranking of Jayden Higgins's wide receiver sixty four. Oh, just

(25:01):
for clarity, that's where Pat fitz Morris is. He is
in the expert consensus ranking of wide receiver sixty six.
Andrew Erickson, on the other hand, is at wide receiver
forty six, even more aggressive than what we've had here
in the average draft position of Jaden Higgins. So Pat
fitz Morris tell us about all the downside, all the

(25:21):
negatives of why Jaden Higgins is not going to happen
in his rookie season.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
You're on her permission to cross examine the defense.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
I'm intrigued by this. I'll allow it. I will allow
it because I like you coming out of the gate.
Hot Here go.

Speaker 5 (25:36):
Ahead, mister Ericson.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
When you consider that Jaden Higgins and Jalen Knowle had
nearly identical stats last year at Iowa State, and that
Jalen Knowle ran a four point thirty nine and high
jumped forty one and a half inches at the NFL
scouting Combine, and that Jalen Knowle was drafted only one
round later than Jayden Higgins. Can you be one hundred

(25:58):
percent certain that Jayden Higg is even the best rookie
receiver from Iowa State on the Houston Texans roster.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
Guarantee he's the best receiver. I think that both the
rookies are both very really talented. I know that I
had them ranked back to back before they were drafted.
It's less about who I think is the more talented player,
because I agree with you that Nole can make some
noise if he's also on the field alongside Higgins. But
the difference is Christian Kirk is in Jalen Nole's role
where he's not going to be starting when this team

(26:27):
opens up in Week one, whereas Jadon Higgins he has
a clear path to opportunity opposite of Nico Collins. So
that's why I had them ranked in this way because
of opportunity. But I will definitely acknowledge the talent that
Noel is once Christian Kirk, who has been injured in
the second half of both seasons the last two years,
if he ends up missing time or phases out of
this offense, then yeah, I think that both of these

(26:48):
rookies can be really talented. I mean, I like betting
on these Texas receivers. Last year, how high are we
drafting Collins, Digs and Tanked Dell. They were all inside
the top five rounds and after one year of c J.
Stroud having a little bit of soft more slump. We
immediately decide, right, it's Collins, and then everybody else is
outside the top fifty receivers. We don't want any of
these guys. When a clear they prioritized Higgins as the

(27:09):
player that they look at.

Speaker 6 (27:10):
Hey, we need to get.

Speaker 4 (27:11):
Immediate opportunity from him, whereas Nol was more of a hey,
a long term bet. We have Christian Kirk here to
operate the slot from the beginning, and then once he's
done twenty twenty six or whatever they decide, Nol is
ready to take over that slot role. He can step
in and also be productive. So I like both guys.
I'm ranked ahead. You can check NOL my NOL ranking.
He's also ranked ahead of ADP for me as well

(27:32):
ahead of ECR. I like drafting both these guys cause
I think both of them are severely undervalued.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
Well to your point, Okay, go ahead, go ahead, Sorry continue.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
No, no, no, let's continue to continue.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
Let's say, just to follow up on the point about
Christian Kirk. Jayden Higgins is a big outside receiver and
the Texans already have one of the best big outside
receivers in the league. And Nico Collins Jalen Nole, on
the other hand, does his best work from the slot
and the only thing keeping Noel from being the Texans
primary slot and is Christian Kirk pretty unremarkable player quite honest, honestly,

(28:05):
who is injury prone and going into the final year
of a contract he has not lived up to. So
I almost feel like Noel has the easier path to productivity.
And with your ranking of wide receiver forty six, we're
talking about a guy who should be flexworthy pretty much
right away, and I'm not sure that's going to be

(28:27):
the case. I don't know if Jaydon Higgins gets the target.
And you know, I'm not even going to go into
the sorry state of the Houston Texans offensive line.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Well, here's a question for both of you. I'll ask
it to the room and then get your individual takes
on it. The offensive line has them agoinst and CJ.
Stroud showed up in town. Has to stopped Nico Collins
from being great. We were drafting Stefon Diggs, who also
plays on the outside aggressively, and he was on pace
for one hundred catch season before his injury. So with
all of that there, and remember Nico, and I want

(28:57):
to say Stefan Diggs were going right around while like
wide receiver fourteen fifteen last year or somewhere in that range,
right right outside the top ten guys pretty much and
basically back to back. So sure the sophomore slump a
little bit dear for CJ. Stroud. Sure, of course the
offensive line does have some issues. But Pat fitz Morris,
if we were coming off a successful year with Stefan

(29:17):
Diggs had one thousand yards receiving and stayed healthy and
had one hundred catches alongside Nico Collins, would we still
be acting so dismissive of Jayden Higgins.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Well, there were the injuries that obviously kept the trio
of Texans receivers from hitting their stride last year, but
we also had the offensive line problem with CJ. Stroud
not getting adequate protection. And you know, we still do
have a number of receivers on this team besides Nico Collins,
who figures to be a big target hog. The rest

(29:51):
is going to get chopped up among Higgins, Noel Kirk,
Dalton Schultz, and I just don't know that this is
going to be a team that's giving us like a
top and output in the passing game. So I'm not
sure that anyone here is really fantasy relevant beyond Nico
Andrew Erickson.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
Anything to add here in your closing arguments for Jayden Higgins. Again,
you are the one who is pushing the envelope when
it comes to the ADP.

Speaker 4 (30:19):
So yeah, one of the things I look at with
Higgins and it's a he's a bet that's hit the
last two seasons where you're you take a guy who's
drafted highly in the second round that falls into a
team attached to a above average quarterback, which I think we
can all agree se these strauts above average quarterback who
can support fantasy viable receivers. Even last year, as bad
as it was, Diggs was still productive for fantasy. Nico

(30:40):
Collins was a monster her fantasy football. When these rookies
end up, these second round rookie picks end up on
teams with these quarterbacks, they hit in a big way
because they're severely discount because their second round picks. But
Jaye Higgins was a thirty fourth overall pick. I mean
there were people, there were rumors he was going to
go in the first round, and the Texans took a
lot of calls on this pick. And they refuse to
trade it because Hey, I knew we're gonna lock it

(31:01):
low with Jane Higgins. The last two seasons it was
Roshie Rice second round pick, really really cheap, but attached
Patrick Mahomes mega hit. Last year, La mcconkeye second round
pick attached to Justin Herbert, mega hit. I just think
it's the same type of bet Jane Higgins attached to c. J.
Stroud immediate path to opportunity. I know we talked about
you or fit to argue about Nol and how he

(31:22):
could have an easier path. So week one, are you
going to rank Jalen Nole over Jayden Higgins or are
you gonna rank Jaan Higgs higher? Because I think I'm
gonna rank Higgins higher because the Week one projection suggests
he's going to be starting out there and Noel's probably
gonna be on the bench.

Speaker 2 (31:35):
I mean, I may have Higgins ranked higher, but they're
both going to be probably well outside the top sixty
at wide receiver.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
Fair enough, let us put it to the jury. Now
the debates have been made the case for Jayden Higgins.
Are you drafting him? Are you not? Let's find out
here and while we're waiting for the answers to that question.
We've got more things to tell you about, including our
Draft Assist in if you want to make sure you're
crushing all your drafts, whether you're drafting Jayden and Higgins

(32:04):
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(32:47):
else's tail. All right, let's see what the people are
saying currently about Jayden Higgins. If we've got some comments here,
I'm definitely going late Higgins in drafts here. This is
from Joseph here, father man, friend of the show. Here,
I'm all for Higgins, so it should be interesting. A
lot of early buzz here, even Sam apologizing. Sorry, Pat,
I have Higgins on my Dynasty. Part of your jury

(33:09):
is bias, So there you go. There is an inherent
bias here. And some of these folks, they've listened to
you in the Dynasty podcast here on Fantasy Pros, and
perhaps you have muddy your own waters. Pat, any concerns,
especially from the chat here, how it's going.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
I am a little concerned. I mean, I do like
Higgins Dynasty stock. I just don't think this year is
really his ETA, all.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Right, So let's take a look at his projections then
perhaps that is a fun way to see if he's
gonna go over or under them. Jayden Higgins right now
on Fantasy Pros, the projections we have here forty eight receptions,
six hundred and thirty yards, four touchdowns. Pat fitz Morris,
over or under those projections.

Speaker 5 (33:50):
I'm gonna say slightly under.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Slightly under. My God, Andrew Erickson, you must be an
over on this right. Forty eight receptions, six thirty four touchdowns.
What is it look like? Give me the receptions, the
yards and the touchdowns.

Speaker 6 (34:03):
Let's go with six touchdowns. Let's say he gets to
six hundred.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
What was his yard to six thirty? Is the yards?

Speaker 6 (34:09):
Thirty?

Speaker 4 (34:10):
I think he's gonna go over. That's the seven hundred
yards and it's getting fifty catches.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
Fifty catches. There you go a little bit more productive. Oh,
this one is close by the hair of our chinny
chinchin the I'm glad we'd have a hung jury here.
We had got real close to it for the first time.
Hung jury. We'd have to offer arbitration here between the
ECR and Andrew Erickson and see if they will agree
to it. If not, I don't know what happens rock
paper scissor tournament. I don't know how we would decide it.

(34:34):
But luckily, just by the skin of our teeth, we
just got there. Fifty two percent, according to the jury,
are drafting Jaden Higgins. Case closed. You're drafting that boy.
You're putting them on your rosters, and you're looking for
a big season. Pat fitz Morris, I'm sorry this one
did not go your way, but it was so close.
What's it like to get to the gold line and

(34:55):
just fumble right before it? Pat?

Speaker 5 (34:57):
Oh, It's it's painful. We thought we were about to
score six here and came up short.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Settled in for the field goal. Andrew ericson, this must
feel pretty good, because I feel like last time the
two a year together, Pat Fitzmorris did kind of rub
your face in it a little bit, a little bit
of taunting, and he came out here real flashy and
right now it's two to one. How are you feeling
right now going into the next player on our list?

Speaker 4 (35:19):
I know Fitzy came out with a lot of big
words I did not understand, But what I do understand
is the standing and it's two to one.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Two to one. There you go. That's how we do
it in fantasy court. All right, let's get to the
next one here. It's a tight end. We're gonna switch
things up here, and a tight end. We had a
really good college career. A lot of us had high
fantasy expectations, but I don't know if this player has
yet to realize his full potension. Could twenty twenty five
be the year for Dalton king Kaid, we do not know.

(35:47):
Let's dive deeper into Dalton Kincaid and give you the
low down on our Knucks sucks, our next suspect or
our Knucks suspect, either one of them. It's good. That's good.
Let's get to our discussion here about Dalton Kinkaid. He's
being just barely drafted, just barely as the twelfth tight

(36:09):
end off the board. The ADP though is at fourteen,
the ECRs at twelve, so we are right there, depending
upon if you like Dalton Kinkaid or not. Just to
kind of recap what we've seen from him, he's two
years into the league, year one, encouraging low touchdown totals. Okay,
touchdown regression happens, but he did see ninety one targets,

(36:30):
caught seventy three. Then last year missed some time, only
played thirteen games in year two and twenty twenty four
saw seventy five to Augus KRT forty four for again
just two touchdowns. So that is the problem when it
comes to Dalton Kinkaid. It's the touchdowns only four and
two seasons. You need more out of your tight end.
Why because you catch a touchdown. You are a tight

(36:52):
end one. That's how it works in fantasy. Pretty much
every single week now, just to get through this year.
Pat fitz Morris is at tight end fifteen, which is
right around where the ADP is actually a little bit
even lower. Andrew Erickson is a tight end eleven, a
little bit higher than some of the consensus in the ADP. So, gentlemen,
let's talk about it. Let us take a look dive
deeper into Dalton Kincaid Pat fitz Morris. Why should people

(37:14):
be avoiding him in twenty twenty five?

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Well, the Buffalo Bills offense has a mantra everybody eats,
And as good as Josh Allen is, he is not
cooking up Thanksgiving dinner for everyone. Dalton Kincaid isn't going
into the kitchen and coming out with a plate full
of turkey, mashed potatoes and stuffing everybody eats means that
everybody gets a little something to nash on, not enough

(37:38):
food to make you loose in your belt when you
get up from the table. Think of it more like
going to a happy hour with your friends and splitting
a couple of starters, some pretzel bites, some pigs in
a blanket, maybe some hummus and peed of bread.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
The Bills spread the ball around. It's just what they do.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
And the Bills also like to play a second tight end,
Dawson Knox, who had a sixty one percent snapshare last season.
So yes, Dalton Kinkaid had seventy three catches as a rookie,
but he did it by catching an unsustainable eighty point
two percent of his targets, and his catch rate fell
to fifty eight point seven percent last year. And over

(38:13):
his first two seasons, Kinkaid has averaged nine point six
yards per catch, six point eight yards per target, one
point five two yards per rout run, not very inspiring numbers.
He scored four touchdowns in twenty nine NFL games. As
you mentioned, Judge, those are all pretty mediocre numbers. Certainly
nothing to suggest that this Clark Kent level tight end

(38:35):
is suddenly going to come out of the phone booth
as Superman. And in the Fantasy pros Expert consensus rankings,
Kinkaid is tight end twelve. Rookie Tyler Warren is tight
end thirteen. Warren could be special, Kinkaid has shown us
he's not special. Like I'm taking Warren over Kinkaid every time. Heck,
I would take Kyle Pitts over Kincaid every time. At

(38:56):
least Pits has given us one thousand yard season.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Shots there By, FITZI, I do like a good superhero metaphor,
and I also like a good appetizer. So that was
a very cogent and exciting monologue here to open up
this discussion, this debate on Dalton king Kaid, Pat fitz Morris,
what is the one on one of appetizers? Just out
of curiosity? You're at the bar, what do you do?

Speaker 5 (39:18):
I'm always going to be a nachos guy.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Nachos her a good choice. Nachos. You gotta get something long.
You gotta get like, you know, ground b for chicken
or something else, chili, something like that. On the nachos,
you gotta do the nacho's good. The other acceptable answer sampler, platter,
a little everything, a little of everything. That's what you do.
Andrew ericson, let's talk about Dalton kin Kaid. To Pat's point,
you know, he hasn't given us a thousand yard season.

(39:42):
He hasn't given us a lot of touchdowns. You know,
like Kyle Pitts, he gave us a lot of hype,
but he really hasn't delivered. Now. I know sometimes it
takes certain tight ends a little longer to catch on,
but how much more patience can we have here with
Dalton king kaid.

Speaker 4 (39:55):
Well, I think it's year three for him. He's still
a relatively younger player. He plays the tight end position.
Not everyone can be Rock Bowers or Sam la Porta.
Those guys have really spoiled us in terms of, oh,
we just get these Titans right out of college and
they become tight end ones out of the gates. Now,
his rookie year was encouraging. Like Fits laid out last year,
he took a step back after many of us thought
that he could take a bigger step forward.

Speaker 6 (40:17):
But he was hurt all of last year.

Speaker 4 (40:19):
I mean, we got reports after the season he was
playing through a torn PCL injury. Sean McDermott echoed this
at the end of last season and during a lot
of the offseason pressers that King kid just was not healthy.
Like our goal this offseason to get in health. And
I know that he's already kind of dealt with a
couple knee injuries here and there, And the last things
I looked at from training camp was he was out there,
he was participating, and right now he's healthier than the
number one wide receiver on the Buffalo Bills is Coklil Shakir.

(40:42):
And I think it's worth pointing out that last season,
Shakir missed one game fully and was limited in another game.
And in those two contests, King Kaid led the Buffalo
Bills in targets, target raate, perroute run, and routes run overall.

Speaker 6 (40:56):
So he deployed.

Speaker 4 (40:57):
He was deployed in a way where if Shakir does
have to miss or this ankle injury is prolonging, then
you're going to see a little bit more of that
Josh Allen Dalton Kink connection, especially like you laid out
in the red zone. I just don't want to write
off younger players coming off of injury plague seasons attached
to Josh Allen, I think someone in this Buffalo passing game,
especially if Shakir is going to be sidelined, it's gonna pop.

(41:19):
And Josh Allen wont MVP last year, we don't want
any of his receivers like that doesn't add up to me,
especially with James Cook and his nineteen touchdowns sitting out
a training camp like they got to score his touchdowns
some way. So I think kin k can be one
of those candidates. And where he's going, I mean, he's free,
he's not being drafted. Yes, I think that Warren is
really exciting. But who's his quarterback?

Speaker 6 (41:39):
We don't know.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
We don't know who the week one quarterback is for
the Aanapiskops, where we know Dalton king Gaid. His quarterback
is Josh Allen and he's going to generate a lot
of touchdowns and that's upside and that's why I think
that it's worth going back to Dalton kon Kaid.

Speaker 6 (41:50):
Especially last year.

Speaker 4 (41:51):
Again, it wasn't great, but one of the highlights hyper
targeted twenty six percent route or target rate per rout run.
That was fifth highest at the position among Titans with
at least one hundred and fifty routes run last year.
So when he was out there, he was banged up,
but he's still getting a lot of targets at a
very high rate. I think that bodes well for him
to bounce back in a healthier season in year three.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
All right, let's put this to the jury and see
what they have to say about it. So you can
vote right now, have your voice heard. Do you want
to draft Dalton Kincaid this year or not? Pa fitz
Morris Andrew does bring up while the jury's deliberating, I
want them to chew on this a little bit. He
does bring up the health, and I can also bring
up we've had some amazing tight ends in this league

(42:33):
who did take a couple of years to kind of
carve out their role. I'm Tony Gonzalez comes to mind, right,
a Hall of Famer. It took him a couple of
seasons to kind of figure out all that talent and
figure out what it was going to be. So is
it a matter of we should be more patient and
actually more potentially interested in Kincaid simply because he does
play in such a good offensive ecosystem with the Buffalo

(42:55):
Bills and the reigning MVP.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
You can make that case. I mean, maybe we've gotten
spoiled then he just did. Maybe we have gotten spoiled
the last couple of years with rookie tight ends finishing
back to back is the overall tight ends one in
fantasy with Sam Laporta and Brock Bauers. But yeah, man,

(43:17):
I just feel like we would have seen the spark
but from Dalton Kincaid by now. And you know, I
don't know if it's necessarily a selling point to mention that,
you know, this second year tight end was like plagued
by injuries last year and.

Speaker 5 (43:33):
We'll see how he does now.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
But I do like the sort of misdirection Ericson ran
when we were talking about like the Shikir absence last year,
and you know, Ericson immediately goes to the routes stats
for Kincaid and neglects to mention that in those two
games he was like two for thirty four and five
for sixty one, and of course no touchdowns in either game.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
So well, one thing I will say to Andrew Ericson
we look back at twenty twenty three is rookie game
log the highest he ever got to eighty seven yards
in one game and eighty four both happened to be
in the last two games of the season. They were
against the New England Patriots that year in the Miami Dolphins. Again,
that was in twenty twenty three, his rookie season, So
it did seem like or seem like he was on

(44:17):
an upward trajectory there. But the touchdowns in the red
zone seems to be a real issue. And that's where
I always fall down here when it comes to the
tight end position. I want scoring equity if I can't
get brock Bowers, and I don't want to pay that
kind of premium for him or for Trey McBride. I'm
looking for touchdown equity. It's why I like Mark Andrews
so much, because he gets so many heavy red zone

(44:37):
targets in a game. So that's the problem here. When
it comes to Kincaid, it just doesn't seem like he
gets enough opportunity here to convert into fantasy points to
the tight end position.

Speaker 4 (44:47):
From there, well, when James Cook scoring all the touchdowns,
it's hard, It's true hard to get them. And look,
we all agree to some point that the James Cook
touchdowns are going to regress, so we didn't have to allocate.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
I'm sorry, not all of us do believe that.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
Some of us here in Handsome's gonna score nineteen again.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
I just don't think it's gonna regress to the point
where you all do, like if it goes from eighteen
to thirteen or fourteen, Oh my god, is the sky falling?

Speaker 6 (45:14):
No less touchdowns.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
It's just less, you know what. You know what. I
will go let the record show nineteen touchdowns from Judge
Joey for James Cook this year. He better because I
just drafted him this weekend in the Fleck's Expert League.
So we'll see how that goes. But the jury has
made a decision. The bailiff has brought it to me
and we will read it now aloud. This one also,

(45:36):
I'm not as close. Nothing gonna be as close as
that last one. This one goes in favor right now
of not drafting Dalton Kincaid. Case dismissed. Unfortunately on Dalton Kinkaid.
He is guilty, guilty of what you say, lack of touchdowns.
I've had it two years of Dalton Kinkaid. I need
more touchdowns out of my tight end. I'm sorry, Dalton.

(45:58):
I hope things turn around. He's interesting by low potentially
in dynasty leagues for me because he was such a
great college player. FITSI. You could speak to this too.
You watched him there in college. He was a very
special talent and hasn't converted yet. But I can't rule
out here just two years into the league, especially last
year with all the injuries that he suffered, that it
can never happen.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, it's hard to pick up the tight end position
because you have so many You have to be the
blocker and the pass catcher, and you know, sometimes that's
sort of the norm that it takes these guys a
little bit of time in the NFL to really get
a foothold and start producing. So, Yes, despite the immediate
pops that we got from Samuel Porta and Brock Powers,

(46:39):
I do think maybe some patients with Kincaida's warranted.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Andrew Erickson, are you somebody that believes the future is
still bright regardless of what twenty twenty five may or
may not hold for Dalton Kinkade.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
I think that there's he has to be brighter. It
can't be worse than one would last year, would hope?
Does Dawson Knock make it dimmer? When Dawson Knox fades
away eventually, is that an opportunity for Kincaid to shine
or no?

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Because the usage is so different.

Speaker 4 (47:09):
I think that it's I think it's really just about
kink the player, because even when he's been playing to
fits his point, I mean, he already won, so you
really haven't seen that spark of Oh, this guy looks
like he's going to be a dominant tight end at
the NFL level. That hasn't happened yet, but because it
is tight end and he's been banged up. Okay, if
he's healthy in year three, maybe we get more what
we saw at the college level from Dalton Kinkaid and

(47:31):
why he was such a high draft pick. He was
a first round pick and again his rookie year he
was still pretty good. So I think that the future
is brighter. And yeah, I think that he probably is
an intriguing dynasty asset, especially with you know, people writing
off these tight ends very quickly, even if they are young,
because of the how we've been spoiled with some of
these rookies.

Speaker 1 (47:52):
Well, the jury has spoken, Dalton Kinkaid will not be
on their rosters in twenty twenty five. So unfortunately this
topic is now closed officially when it comes to Dalton
Kincaid on Fantasy Football Draft Court, our last debate today
has to do with a rookie tight end. That's right,
it's Colston Loveland of the Chicago Bears. And Colston Loveland

(48:16):
again hasn't played a snap of football yet, but there's
a lot of buzz. The training camp buzz one of
my favorite pastimes. Every single August. It rolls around Pat
fitz Morris, and everyone's in the best shape of their life,
and everyone's got a great connection, and everybody looks sharp.
He sure does look sharp this weekend. Boy oh boy,
I saw him at practice in shorts. Boy a boy.

(48:36):
That fella's good at football. But can we take it
for truth? That's what this courtroom cares about. It cares
about truth. And we're gonna have to get down to
the bottom of things here with Colston Loveland. Now we
have no stats to talk about, but there was some
draft capital used here. Ben Johnson, new head coach, wants
a new toy at tight end. Now they already had
Cole commit at tight end, but that wasn't enough apparently
for Ben Johnson. Instead, they now draft Colston Loveland. And

(49:00):
I am old enough to remember the last time a
Ben Johnson offense got a young tight end. It was
Sam Laporta, who had himself a pretty good season. The
season so good that you would call it a league
winner in many circles. So Pat fitz Morris, as we
begin this debate here on Colston Loveland. That is the
big question. He is currently in the ECR at tight
end fifteen, ADP tight end thirteen. Pat fitz Morris has

(49:24):
it much later, though, at tight end nineteen, whereas Andrew
Erickson is in line with the ADP. Andrew Rickson is
looking at Coaston Loveland and Pat fitz Morris is looking
past him. So Pat, how can you look past the
man who could potentially be with a head coach who
made Sam Laporta a league winner just two years ago.

(49:44):
Let's debate it. Fantasy draft court is in session. Pat
fitz Morris, talk to me about Coaston Loveland.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Well, I do like Colston Loveland as a prospect. He's
tight end five.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Objection, objection, you do not like him. I have seen
your ranking of him and it is not good. It's nineteen.
It's far lower than consensus. You may continue, excuse me,
your honor.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
I like him as a dynasty prospect where I have
him tight end five in my rank.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Stained stained continue.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
But I don't think people should be interested in Colston
Loveland for redraft until next season. The too many mouths
to feed narrative is not my favorite, even though I
sort of used it with Dalton Kincaid just a moment ago.
Talented players can lay that narrative to waste, and I
do think Loveland is more talented than Kincaid. But man,

(50:34):
the Bears have a lot of talented pass catchers. DJ
Moore has averaged eleven hundred yards over the last six seasons.
Romo Dunes was a top ten NFL draft pick last year.
Luther Burden is a very talented rookie, a second round
draft pick who might have been a top ten pick
had he been able to come out after a sensational
sophomore season. Oh and by the way, Andrew Erickson said

(50:55):
earlier in the show that Ben Johnson likes to feed
his slot receiver, so said I was going to file
that one away. I'm going to use that now with
the listing of all these pass catchers in the Bears offense.
And we have all these high upside pass catchers in Chicago,
But do the Bears have a quarterback who can make
even two of these pass catchers fantasy relevant? Make them

(51:18):
every week fantasy starters. Like There are a lot of
players who've gotten good buzz since training camps opened.

Speaker 5 (51:25):
Caleb Williams is not one of those. Players.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Not that we need to panic over the mistakes that
quarterbacks make in training camp, but let's just say that
Caleb Williams performance for the Bears in camp thus far
has not been very encouraging to anyone hoping for a
second year Caleb Williams breakout. So I do want to
like Colston Lovelin, but even if I squit real hard,
I just I can't see a scenario where I would
feel comfortable putting him into my starting tight end spot

(51:52):
at any point in his rookie year.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
There's one thing a Packer fan loves to do. It's
throw shade at the Chicago Bears on Papwitz Morris, well done.
It's like a national pastime up there, Andrew Erickson, Pafwitz Morris,
did I think slip up a little bit there where
he said with all these other pass catchers around was
Aman Rossaint Brown and Jamison Williams and Reynolds and all

(52:16):
these other pass catchers around when Sam Laporta went off. Now,
I know it's not copy and paste, because Jared Goff
is certainly not Caleb Williams. However, with different mouths to
feed a tight end eight in a Ben Johnson offense
before the problem is, is Caleb Williams capable of getting
in the kitchen and making something that doesn't poison us?

Speaker 5 (52:38):
Well?

Speaker 4 (52:38):
I hope, so I hope that he can make this
guy a productive tight end because I think that is
part of the pushback against leveland is the fact that
he is he has a quarterback that hasn't shown that
he can support fantasy viable weapons. And the talk from
training camp has basically been a lot of this is
kind of like Caleb Williams rookie year right where they're
kind of resetting everything, his footwork, they're trying to fix everything,

(52:59):
clean up the mistake from last year because of how
bad it was last season.

Speaker 6 (53:02):
So I still think there's an.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
Upside case where he's a second year quarterback, he can
make a leap. We expect the offense to be better,
and why can't Colston Lovelin be part of the reason
why Caleb Williams is better. One of the things that
Ben Johnson has echoed constantly is we want to get
Kayleb Williams his completion percentage up to seventy percent.

Speaker 6 (53:19):
How do you do that. You find a.

Speaker 4 (53:21):
Big, intermediate, short intermediate target like Colston Lovelin, and you
get him the ball and you feed him the rock.
So yeah, you talked about how Ben johnson offense feature
the slot. Why can't Colston Loven be the brock Bauers
in this offense. Brock Bauers was basically a glorified slot
receiver last season. Why can't Loveland be in that type
of role? So he actually is playing in that slot

(53:42):
where Ben Johnson has featured some of his pieces, It
would makes sense to me that they would feature him inside,
given the fact that they took him tenth overall and
kind of a shocking pick where many of us weren't
projecting the Bears to be looking at a tight end
in the NFL draft. We thought, maybe receiver they go here,
maybe they draft ashing genty and then they kind of
surprised us with Colson Loveland.

Speaker 6 (54:00):
I know that fits.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
One of the things we were both on was Loveland
is the first tight end off the board, which we
benefit in the betting street, which is a great hit.
So thank you Ben Johnson for that. But I want
to continue to ride this Colston Loveland train. I think
that the gravy train still has more money to give here,
and I think getting Loveland where he is, I think
it's just worth the shot to kind of see what
happens when Week one rolls around. I know also just
saw it pop up. Cole Comet left today with an injury.

(54:23):
So is that something that could open up an opportunity
for Colston Lovelan to really take this tight end one
job and run with it. So I just think that
he's he's just so talented. We don't need to argue
about his prospect profile because I know that you really
like him too, and I just want to buy into
that immediately because I think that he is talented enough
where he can force the coach's hand to make sure

(54:45):
that he's heavily involved from the get go. And he's
I mean, he's cheap enough where you can put him
on the end of your bench if he's the tenth
overall pick.

Speaker 6 (54:52):
I don't want to just ignore that.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Let's put it to the jury. See what they say,
are they or are they not drafting Colston Loveland this year?
In twenty twenty five, all the debate continues. Pat fitz Morris,
you know rookie quarterbacks good and bad, do tend to
look for the tight end quite often. So do you
think that he could be as one of our listeners
just put in the chat there, the security blanket regardless
of any struggles that Caleb Williams could have, could love

(55:16):
one be the go to guy regardless.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Yeah, it's possible. But if we're talking about him as
a security blanket, that probably means a lot of less
valuable targets near the line of scrimmage that maybe pad
the reception total a little bit, but don't do great
things for his yardage and touchdown totals. I mean, if
we want to get Caleb Williams to a seventy percent
completion percentage, I feel like Ben Johnson might have to

(55:42):
dial up about eighty shovel passes this year to do it.
It just I don't know if Caleb Williams has that
in him. And by the way, you're on or the
effort to derail my arguments here with the mention of
Sam Laporta in his rookie year, Jamison will said, twenty
four catches in Sam Laportez overall tight end one rookie season.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Fair fair up objection sustained your backpack. It's Morris, I
will I will allow it. Let's continue to let the
jury take some moments here to make their final decision.
Before they do, keep the conversation going on our discord.
That's the place to go if you're looking to join
the league, if you're looking to be part of our shows.

(56:26):
We have shows on our discord that we record where
you get to ask us questions right there. It's like
a call in radio show kind of thing. It's super
cool and we're gonna be doing that all season long,
just like we've done the last couple of years Fantasypros
dot Com, slash Chat. Join our discord. That's the only
way you can be on those shows. Be part of
the AMAS, be part of all the channels. We're doing
mock draft Mondays here with everybody crazy. They fill up

(56:47):
in literally eight seconds. I did a super flex mock
on Monday last week. I think it was eight seconds.
It was full and we rolled. That's the place to
be man, Join our discord, and remember when you're watching
this video, drop your comments below, Subscribe to the channel
like this video here before the show is done, and
you might win yourself. The AJ Brown helmet autographed by
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(57:10):
not be replaced by Treylon Burks apparently, but we've got
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drop your comments, subscribe to the channel like this video
and you could win it from Pristine Auction dot com.
We are awaiting just seconds away. Question for you, Andrew Erickson,
Tyler Warren or Colston Lovelin, two rookie tight ends. Who
would you rather have in redraft this year?

Speaker 4 (57:30):
So for me, it's Tyler Warren and it goes down
to he's never gonna leave the field, think that he
could play ninety percent of the snaps, which is not
what I would project for love one. And the other
thing is I don't think that we're gonna get necessarily
great quarterback play in either situation. I think that Caleb
could probably have the better season if he hits his
upside case rather than the Colts quarterback combination. But if

(57:51):
they're both bad quarterback situations, that I want to take
the guy that's better after the catch and can create
more on his own, and that's Tyler Warren to me.

Speaker 1 (57:58):
Well, the jury has come back with a verdict. We
have it. It is fifty eight percent. The jury says
that they are not I repeat, not drafting Colston Loveland
in twenty twenty five. Oh, Andrew Erickson, You're like Icarus.
You flew so close to the sun. You were so
good to start the show, coming out guns of blazing.
But Youthan's skill are no match for old Asian treachery.

(58:20):
And that's what Pat Morris, Patris Wrris gave you here.
I just called you Pat Morris, which is funny. Pat
Fitzmorris here apologies. The courtroom will put out an official
apology for that. But I'm not gonna apologize for drafting
Colston Loveland late deeper leagues, I think you take a
shot on him. But a lot of concerns there, Kayleb
Williams being the big one new offense rookie is a

(58:42):
lot here with tight ends, you know. I think sometimes
we get spoiled where we see like a Kyle Pitts
come in and drop a thousand yards and every rookie
tight end is going to come in and just be great.
History is not always on the side, but it is
good to see that it can happen. Sam Laporta also
recent memories. So perhaps it will be Tyler Warren, perhaps
it will be Colston Loveland. Who knows. But again, that's
what we're here for. So it was a great Fantasy

(59:04):
Court today. I want to thank our incredible lawyers, Pat
fitz Morris Andrew Erickson for being here today and making
all their arguments. Hopefully we'll get some appetizers after the show.
I also want to thank everybody for joining us here
on the live stream. Nobody's better than our crew here
at Fantasy Pros, our producers and everyone behind the scenes.
Two shout out to them for making the show work

(59:24):
here today, and all of you with a jury. I
appreciate your comments, I appreciate your judgments here and that'll
do it for us here. But the story of the
game goes on for Pat fitz, Morrison Andrew Erickson. This
court broom is officially adjourned for today. Get out of here,
Go run some mock drafts. Download draft Wizard. What are
you doing here? Start putting all this knowledge they use

(59:46):
for God's sakes, sink your leagues for free. By the way, too,
it's a good thing to do. Don't be a tool,
use the tools. That's what I always say. Listen to
Judge Joey, He's smart sometimes. Thanks for listening to the
Fantasy Pros Fantasy football podcast. If you love the show,
the best free way to support us is by leaving

(01:00:07):
a positive review on Apple Podcasts at Fantasypros dot com
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Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Follow us on x, Instagram, and TikTok at Fantasy Pros,
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Are Jameson Williams & Jayden Reed Draft Day Steals or Risky Picks? | Fantasy Football Draft Court Debates (Ep. 1645)

Episode Transcript

Hosts And Creators

Andrew Erickson

Joe Pisapia

Derek Brown

Thor Nystrom

Ryan Wormeli

Pat Fitzmaurice

Matthew Freedman

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Are Jameson Williams & Jayden Reed Draft Day Steals or Risky Picks? | Fantasy Football Draft Court Debates (Ep. 1645)