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Intro - 0:00:00
Brock Bowers, Trey McBride, George Kittle, and Sam LaPorta - 0:00:25
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody. Welcome into the Fantasy Pros Football Podcast. I'm
Ryan Warmley, joined today by Andrew Rickson and Derek Brown Fellas.
We are talking top thirty two tight ends. We already
did this version of the show for the quarterbacks earlier
this week, so if you missed that, be sure to
check it out on YouTube or audio or wherever you
get your podcast. That was a very fun episode. We
went a little longer on that one. Then we're going
to go today on the tight ends.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Let's dive right in running through the top thirty two,
the very clear top four, at least according to our
early consensus rankings, which by the way, can be found
at fantasypros dot com slash rankings.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Our Brock Bowers at tight.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
End one, Trey McBride it to George kittle a three,
is Sam Laporta at four. That's the clear tier one
in our early ECR across. I think it's about forty
experts at this point in the offseason, so pos was
subject to change. I don't think these grouping is going
to change too much here ericson.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I'm pretty lockstep with the top three guys and where
they are. But I just Sam Laporta, it's just the
target competition, man. I have trouble wrapping my mind around.
This was the issue last year and why I was
pushing back against him as tight end one because why
should we draft a guy tight end one when he's
not even the number one target earner on his team.
So yep, that was a big concern for me with
(01:12):
him last year and him back up in this top
tier again when if anything it's tougher, then it's usually
because now Jamison Williams is like.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
A full fledged breakout.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Last year was like, Okay, maybe this guy's gonna break out,
We're not so sure. But now it's like, oh well,
now you all have Saint Brown as the alpha target earner.
You have Jameson Williams, who they're already talking up again
as a breakout candidate, which I didn't think was even
possible because he already broke out with like he's going
to break out again. So I mean Laporta, yes, he's
a tight end, he's really talented, great after the catch,
(01:41):
But I don't know, maybe in this new offense, if
they have an extra different wrinkle with Ben Johnson gone,
they involved him a little bit more. Again, health was
also a big issue with him last year, But there
are so many other tight ends I'd rather have than
Laporta that go after him. So he's the only guy
that I really pushed back against being up in the
top four.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
De bro I was talking on the quarterback episode about
how I really wanted to get one of those kind
of first three names at quarterback, which meant that I
wasn't going to get a lot of high end tight
ends because you can really only have.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Room to do one or the other for the way
I want to build my team.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Having said that, I really do want in leagues where
I choose to wait a quarterback, I really want to
get one of Bowers or McBride, Like I do like
all four of these tight ends to varying degrees, but
I just feel like Bowers is such an easy tight
end one and Trade McBride is such an easy tight
end two that I'm going to feel way more comfortable
at the position if i can just set it and
forget it with one of those two guys. And I
do think they kind of stand apart from the others
(02:38):
even within this tier. Of course, all four of them
I still think are very good in this tier.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
I don't disagree with you on Trade McBride and brock Bowers. Now, now,
to to Erickson's point, Samport was not my tight end
one of last year. That was Trade McBride, and if
he could just score touchdowns he would have been the
runaway tight end one. But we all kind of poo
pooed Kyler Murray and his outlook on the last episode.
(03:05):
So for me, man like I've got, I have no
problem with anybody draft and tradem Trad McBride or brock Bauers.
The guy that I've I feel like, honestly I'm gonna
be drafting the most out of this top three to
four is George Keittle. I'm gonna be drafting him everywhere
because you're not paying the premium as much as you
(03:25):
are for brock Bauers and Trade McBride. You've got target competition.
Like to Erickson's point, Rock Bowers is freaking awesome. He
had no target competition last year. He's got a lot
of target competition this year. Now again, is he still
going to probably lead the team in targets? Sure, but
adding talented players around him when they were basically none
outside of Jacoby Myers, who was also hurt last year.
(03:47):
Is going to impact him much less? Are we going
to see because for a lot of the team for
the year, the Raiders were passing the ball a ton.
Is that going to continue with Pete Carroll and Chip
Kelly in town? I don't know, man, So i'd say,
like going back to George Kittle, we know what we're
getting out of him, man Like, since twenty eighteen, he's
(04:08):
only finished outside the top four tight ends once. He's
never been lower than tight end six. In the last
three years. He's been top two in two of those seasons.
So George Kittle, and I'm getting a discount on him,
and he's entering the year healthy. And there's Brandon Ayuk.
What are we getting out of him this year? And
there's no debo, Samuel, George Kittle could easily be the
(04:32):
tight end one this year and nobody should be surprised
and everybody should take the discount.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It's a good point.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I think I'm discounting it by saying it's those top
two you're and it's not that I was saying Kittle
should be ranked lower, but you're right. He especially the
cost you can get him at compared to those other two.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I think.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I just want to ask you, guys, this is something
that fits points out a lot when we talk about
Trey McBride and some other players. Some guys, it's it's
not that like touchdown regression is coming. They just have
kind of an allergy of the end zone. Maybe it's
the offense they're in, maybe it's the player, maybe it
is just dumb luck. But Trey McBride, you talk about
how he would have been the runaway tight end one
(05:12):
if he'd scored touchdowns. This isn't like a fluke year
if him not scoring touchdowns. He scored one touchdown twenty
twenty two, his rookie season. He scored three touchdowns in
twenty twenty three, and he scored two touchdowns in twenty
twenty four. And that's the last two years, despite getting
over one hundred targets each year, having a combined five
touchdowns the last two years. Is this the player he
is debro whether it can be ascribed to the offense
(05:36):
or the player, or do you think there is a
chance that we have a nine touchdown season this year.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
I I'm just I think it's all fluke, dude, I
do I don't buy anyto that stuff because going back
to George Kittle, didn't we all say that about George Kittle,
Oh what if he could just score touchdowns when in
twenty eighteen to twenty twenty it was five touchdowns, five touchdowns,
two touchdowns, and then he proceeds to score six eleven
to six and a over the next four seasons. So
(06:02):
I think it just comes down to a lot of
that has to also talk like we could talk about
the red zone targets for certain players, but also it
comes down to target quality and what that looks like
as well. I think a lot of that is more
on Kyler Murray than it is on I just don't
subscribe to a player of Trey McBride six four, two
forty five. All the talent in the world can command
(06:24):
targets and all that kind of stuff, but oh well,
he he's not good when we get into the red
zone and he's not very like, come on, man, like,
I no no offense to fits, but I know I
put no stock.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
He's not planting his flag.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Fits.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
And I have talked about that, like with McBride and
the touchdowns and stuff like that I think it's more
a variance than it's anything that I'm going to actually
like believe that he just can't score touchdowns.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
I want to weigh in here as someone that had
a lot of money on Trey McBride anytime touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Adding that every single week, Dude, didn't we bet like
that he was going to score three against the Panthers.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Dude, I thought it was all.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I was like, the regression was just like matching because
like the Panthers go up the moment they were like.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Bottoms are the worst against tight ends.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I thought it was inevitable.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
So I do want to layer up because again I
was watching these like very closely trying to figure out
like what's going on, Like why is he not scoring
any touchdowns? And they jam targets to Marvin Harrison junior
and that end zone like they were like they were
trying to do it, and you look at just like
end zone targets, red zone targets Marvin Harrison Junior. Again,
he scored a lot of touchdowns last year in an
underwhelming rookie season, he had more touchdowns and training Bride,
(07:38):
which you look at you're like, that's so weird, right,
But they were really focusing in at least Kyler Murray was.
I'm not sure if that was Murray or if it
was the play call and be like, hey, we got
a force the ball to Marvin Harrison Junior and it.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Was not effective. Really.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
I get he scored eight touchdowns, but I think it
was eight touchdowns, but it took a lot of red
zone targets to get there. So I think that when
you zoom out, it's just better to on these guys
eventually finding the endzone.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Again, he's lader to the end zone until he's not.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
All of the usage metrics that we look at that
are predictive for touchdowns suggest this guy's going to catch
more touchdowns than he did a year ago, if he
has a twenty seven percent target chair, if he has
all these monster usage numbers as the number one pass
catcher in his offense. So I'll continue to bet on
McBride to score touchdowns. Maybe I'll lose money, maybe I won't,
but I can at least be okay with the process
(08:24):
behind doing it. And I do want to say one
more thing to bringing it back to George Kittle talking
about touchdowns in general, I think that how you approach.
Tight end is a little bit more league specific to
your format. I would rather have a guy like a
McBride or a brock Bowers, where these guys rack up receptions,
so in a full PPR they give you a bigger
(08:44):
edge at tight end versus half PPR where you just
got a score touchdown, like that's all you're kind of
making on so you're getting I think less of an
advantage with taking those types of players that you're not
benefiting as much from their receptions, which is why Bowers
and McBride are ranked as the top two guys versus
the touchdowns, which is like a half PPR. Like that's
why George Kittle Again, if you look at standard rankings
(09:06):
or standard projection, George Kittle is number one in everything
because he gets there by efficiency with yards and touchdowns,
not necessarily a ton of receptions. So again somebody to
keep in mind as what is your format. Okay, I
think I would rather wait a little bit more, maybe
not go after McBride or Bauers, or in a half
PPR versus a full PPR.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I mean somebody like Mark Andrew's kind of benefiting in
that you know standard format as well, just.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
To highlight how bad it was for McBride fifteen point
six fantasy points per game. He was number the tight
end two. Last year he was tight in one and
expected fantasy points per game with nineteen point two. So
you like add touchdowns to this insane volume in this
otherworldly like like production, and he is the runaway clear
(09:55):
number one dude.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And as Debro puts in our chat, zero red zone target, Ye,
this is Carolina.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
I know it was pretty bad because I remember there
was like they were trying to get in. I remember
him running a certain route in the end zone. They
were trying to get in the ball, but he was
like triple covered. Well he was over the middle of
the field Kyler Murray and then the head a jam
at to Marvin Harrison who didn't catch it, who dropped
it or something.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So it was super frustrating.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So yeah, yeah, welcome now to this week's Chasing Challenges,
brought to you by Microsoft. Just like the athletes who
push boundaries and redefine what's possible, business decision makers today
are turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft meets you where you
are with tools and guidance that help you make an impact.
With safe Secure AI solutions, players and teams are facing
their own challenges. In this segment, we spotlight athletes or
(10:43):
teams that are currently undergoing a challenge, what this means
from a fantasy or betting standpoint, and examine how we
think they.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Can overcome them.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise
to say bring it on. This week, we're discussing the
challenge faced by Mark Andrews as he enters the twenty
twenty five season with some question about his fantasy value
for the first.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Time in years.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Andrews has been a model of consistency at the tight
end position since being drafted in twenty eighteen, as Lamar
Jackson's favorite target and the Ravens all time leader in
receiving touchdowns. But there are more question marks in twenty
twenty five than ever before, with Andrews turning thirty before
the season and uber talented Isaiah likely threatening to earn
even more targets this year. And that's not even mentioning
(11:23):
the fact that Andrews is coming off the worst game
of his career in that brutal finish to the Ravens
playoff run in Buffalo Andrews is still a Tier two
tight end in the consensus rankings, with Baltimore reportedly considered
trading him this offseason, and it's unclear how many targets
will be available for him this year. He'll have to
shake off the painful memories of that playoff game and
deeper target competitions to bounce back and give fantasy managers
(11:44):
another elite tight end season. That's it for this week's
Chasing challenges. Remember Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take
bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to
help drive your business forward. With Microsoft, as you are
trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, innovative solutions,
and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft dot com Slash challengers
(12:05):
to learn more. All right, we are going to the
next group of tight ends here. I'm ignoring all these
annoying things that you and Ericson are putting in our
private chat.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Of course, he picks a Raven for the challenging situation.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Okay, first of all, I've done a bunch of these
Challenger reads, and I think that's the first Raven I've chosen.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Uh, it just happened to work out that way.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
I'm gone, you haven't done a show with us in
a while.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
They're like, you couldn't have to pile pitts and bone
the guy who needs well.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I truthfully, it was you missed it. It was it
was where in the show the read came. So I
had to pick a name that either we just talked
about and I was talking about it Tier one guys
they don't have any challenges, or a guy that we're
about to talk about. And Andrews is the one that
stuck out because he had such.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
A challenging circumstances Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
At any rate.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
The next group of tight Ends are talking about this
is this is I made kind of a larger tier
this So this isn't again directly aligned with the tears
in ECR. This is just kind of there's a large
group of names here that I think you could have
varying degrees in interest.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So from tight End five to twelve, TJ.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Hockinson, John hu Smith, Mark Andrews, Travis Kelsey, David and Joke, who,
Evan Ingram, Tucker Craft, and Jake Ferguson. Again, that's tight
Ends five through twelve. Ericson who stands out for you here?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Uh, the joker, Evan Ingram, Yeah, stands out the most.
I mean that's the guy I won't like. We talked
about the elite tight ends, but I have Evan Ingram
tight end four. Yes, I just think that a man
when we're talking about a full PPR. Evan Ingram, even
last year, was still really effective, averaging over five catches
per contest in the games that he played last year,
even though he only played nine games. But we've seen
(13:41):
him when he's been fully healthy, he just racks up perceptions.
And I could see very much him emerging as bo
Nix's in his second year, his number one checkdown option,
like his Binkie. Who's going to Oh, I'm under pressure
because Bonix was not good under pressure last year. Okay,
how do we fix that? Gave him a nice big
target outlet from the slot. However, they deploy Evan Ingram.
But we've seen Sean Payne get unique with certain tight
(14:03):
ends before. I don't think he's had the right tight
end on the roster in Denver.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
So what do you do?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
He went out and got Evan Ingram in free agency.
They didn't draft or invest anything else in the draft
really at tight end, so I think Evan Ingram again.
Courtland Sutton is there. He was the alpha last year.
But will we have a vice script on the target
chair as much as he did?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
I think Evan Ingram's going to see signific amount of targets.
I think it wouldn't surprise me if Evan Ingram maybe
isn't the leaving leading receiver in terms of yards, but
in terms of sheer volume in targets, I think he
could out target Courtland Sutton in his first year with
bo Nick. So, Evan Ingram has been a tight end
six in his first season with all of his new
teams with the Giants, the Jaguars, Robos are next.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Steeber, what do you think about Ingram? I?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I can't.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
I can't agree anymore. It is not possible for me
to agree with anything more that Erickson has stated here,
man like is he hit everything perfectly here? I have
Evan Ingram as my tight end four as well. I
have him above Sam Laporta, TJ. Hockins and Mark Andrews,
all those guys. For everything that Erickson laid out, Evan
(15:07):
Ingram is going to lead this team. In targets. That
that's gonna happen over Courtland Sutton. Courtland Sutton got a
ton of volume because he was legit the only full
time player in that offense last year. That's not happening
this year. So Courtland Sutton move aside. Evan Ingram. And
the thing I want to point out about Evan Ingram
is that, yeah, dude, like, let's just go back to
twenty twenty three. He was the leader of the Jacksonville
(15:29):
Jaguars passing attack. He was the tight end four in
that season. I think you could see another one hundred
and forty targets for Evan Ingram. Now here's the difference.
Evan Ingram has never gotten the red zone usage that
he deserves. Not last year, but the two previous seasons.
In twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three, this guy
ranked fourteenth and nineteenth in red zone targets and still
(15:51):
put up the seasons that he did as the tight
end four and tight end seven. If he gets top
ten usage in the red zone, and again we're going
back to touchdown stuff. Evan Ingram one touchdown four four three,
one three, three six. He's never had a season where
he's scored more than six touchdowns. Heck, outside of that
(16:11):
his rookie season, he's never scored more than four touchdowns.
If he gets into that seven to nine range and
gets that type of target volume, he's gonna be a
top three option at the position. He has he even
quietly has tight end one overall upside like that's the
type of upside that Evan Ingram brings. And yet in
ECR he's tight in ten behind Hockinson, who is definitively
(16:36):
probably the third option in that offense. John Newsmith. Does
he really continue to run as the number one option
in the Miami passing attack? Probably not. Mark Andrews. I
like him, and I think he's a wonderful value this year.
But DeAndre Hopkins there is he gonna siphon off some
of the touchdowns that really really helped Andrews last year.
(16:57):
Travis Kelce heck, no David and who is even the quarterback,
No dude. Like I think Evan Ingram's ranking right now
is egregiously wrong.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
So I don't disagree on Ingram over the guy I'm
about to ask about, but I do think we have
to discuss Kelsey just given what he's done in his career.
And also I wonder if the discount is too much
on him because everybody is, oh, he's older, they're saving
him for the playoffs. He was tight end six or
tight end seven in points per game through seventeen weeks
(17:30):
last season, and that was with only three touchdowns. I
get that, like the yards perception, we're way down compared
to his career. I get that his life, you know,
like the explosiveness was not there. If the touchdowns come
back up, like, would it surprise you to see them
using more in the red zone this year? And if
those three touchdowns get back up to like eight and
he's still you know, getting one hundred targets like that
(17:52):
would not shock me, And I wonder if maybe the
discount is too far Ericson.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
I do agree that there's definitely some value potential with
Travis Kelsey, and he was fourth and expected fantasy points
per game last year. But again you talked about the touchdowns.
He had the opportunities last year. He was first in
red zone targets, and yet he didn't score the touchdowns. Now, okay,
does he fix that? Does he score double digit touchdowns?
Am I happy that he has a mark Andrews twenty
(18:17):
twenty four season. Probably not, Like that's the concern that
everything else is gone. Like he's not racking up double
digit targets anymore, he's not getting the yardage. He's catching
a couple of balls here every single week, but he
needs the touchdowns. And then he doesn't score a touchdown.
Why started him? And he got me no points? So
that's where I get concerned with him. I think in
a best ball format, I think it makes more sense
(18:38):
if you're stacking with Patrick Mahomes you want to get
that touchdown correlation.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I think that makes sense. But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Man, he's thirty five years old. We clearly we saw
him hit the age cliff like it was so apparent.
I mean watching him in the playoffs, man, like, the
guy looked like a shell of himself. And I get
it's a little bit different at the end of the season,
but he was considering retiring, so I'm I'm just towards
other tight end.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
He looked like that the entirety of the season, though. Man,
he just looks like lumbering, like he Oh gosh, I'm
gonna say that. I know it's blasphemous, but dude, he
looked in a lot of instances, as robotic as he
looked in, as lumbering as he was, Like, he looked
like just the Ferrari version of like in your end
of career, Jason witten Man like it was. It wasn't
(19:21):
pretty man like.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I don't think Travis Kelsey can reverse father time that much.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I I don't want to play like too much like
armchair psychiatrist here. I do think like the Chiefs, they
were riding very high going into last season. I think
a lot of them kind of assumed that they would
be getting the three pete and not.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
That they didn't work hard.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I'm not at all suggesting that, but that, like I
think mentally they were like, coming off back to back
super Bowls, were the best team, the best dynasty of
this league's ever seen. Like, you know, he was traveling
with Taylor Swift all summer like all that stuff. I
think the fact that they got beat down in the
Super Bowl this last year and he still does to
come back, I think he wants to go out on
a high note. I think he's going to work even
(20:06):
harder than he did last summer to try to get
something close, you know, back close to what he was.
I am not saying this guy should be a Tier
one tight end. I'm not saying he's going to be
prime Travis Kelsey. I'm just saying this kind of grouping
of tight ends, I'm with you on Ingram should be
higher some of these other ones, like I might be
inclined to just say, like I'll I'm going to buy
(20:28):
into the first ballot Hall of Famer having one last
ride over taking David Njoku or John Usmith or somebody
like that who's currently in the same Tierism is kind
of my ultimate point. And I was very very out
on Kelsey last year. I wanted nothing to do with him.
I wanted all the other guys who were in that
kind of tier one tier two range over him. This year,
(20:51):
I wonder if maybe the discount will be so far
because everybody's looking at the age, because everybody's looking at
last year, when again, if he catches three, are those touchdowns,
like you're talking about a top five tight end season
last year in the worst year of his career. I
don't think he's going to totally reverse to Tran again.
He's not gonna be tight end one this year. But
I just wonder if maybe ericson it's it's gone a little.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Too far the other way.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
I guess I'm just trying to paint the picture of
am I excited to get Travis Kelcey on my team?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Like what if he starts off slow again? Then no?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
I mean I think that you're the division of a
boring vet. It's not about excitement.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
I mean, I like, I like driving excited guys. I
mean that's why I Evan Ingram right, he's going. He's
ranked after Travis Kelcey. Evan Ingram, like we said, talk
about leading his team in targets. He's significantly younger than
Travis kell Again, he has injury concerns as well. But
I don't know, I don't want to overthink this. Like
Travis Kelsey had an age cliff last year. Guys don't
get better with age, right eventually, What if he just
(21:44):
kind of like phases out entirely and he's not even feature.
Maybe they use Noah graymore in the red zone. Maybe
those red zone targets are going to other players. So
I mean, Marky Sprow is gonna be back the dude, Like,
I don't know, I just feel like last.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But do you think, I mean, Kelsey's not coming back
to be the backup tight end. He's he would just
retire if that was the point.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Noo, He's got increased target competition if Hollywood stays healthy,
if for Shee Rice, if Xavier Worthy, all those guys
are Jalen Royals, if all those guys are on the field,
and stuff like that. Like that's also like it's gonna
hurt him, Like I mean, just looking at game logs
last year too, like it is clear he's slowed down,
like he didn't earn and including the playoffs, he didn't
(22:25):
earn more than a well, excuse me, he earned double
digit targets only once after week thirteen. He didn't He
only crossed ninety receiving yards once after week ten. Like
I understand him coming back and chasing a ring, and
I think he's gonna be good for the Chiefs, but
(22:46):
I don't know if he's gonna be great for us
in fantasy. Man. It's just I think you could still
look at it and say, Okay, he got one hundred
and thirty three targets and he got ninety seven receptions.
What if the target volume goes down some because he's
not the guy he used to be and the receptions
go down, then yeah, you could be looking at just
a more expensive version of Mark Andrews and you're praying
(23:09):
for those touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I think I think I'm really I think I'm really
more confident than you guys that he's going to catch
more touchdowns this year. I think if he has a health,
if he's health, but do you.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Think the receptions and the yardage and all that other
kind of stuff, because all the rest of it's like, dude,
he got ninety seven balls last year and he still
didn't get over on nine hundred receiving ards, Like that's
not good, dude.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I also think too, like there are other I mean
talking about tight ends, right, most titands are touchdown dependent anyway,
So why don't want to drop the most expensive touchdown
dependent tight end?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Fair?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Because because what I'm saying is I don't know how
expensive he's going to be. I think it's not that
I'm saying he should be ranked aggressively. It's that I'm
anticipating the ranking of the ADP dropping, you know, to
a point where it becomes it's gone too far in
the other direction.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
I think to my issue with Kelsey is because he
is Travis Kelcey and he has that touchdown upside, like
you've alluded to, I'm gonna be afraid to move on
from him if he's underperforming. I'm gonna be putting it
in my lineup every sing like that's why like.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
You, because he's gonna go off in the bat one.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I want an.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Elite tight end or I want to punt it because
if a guy sucks, I want to move on right away.
But Travis Kelcey, to me, it seems like, I mean,
he's Travis Kelsey, He's got my home. He's scored touchdowns
last week, but then this week he did it, and
it's just he seems like more of a headache to
manage on a roster versus, Oh, this is like a
great value play. Like he's also going in that range
of tight end, at that eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve
(24:34):
range that historically speaking, these are bad adp bets to
draft the back end or that middle tier of tight
end where they're not the elite, but they're just the
best of the quote unquote late round tight ends.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
And I'd rather than PUNTI deep.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
We do that every year.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I actually don't think I'm going to be rostering a
lot of Kelsey. I might not have him anywhere, but
I think in our like like in the Fantasy Pros
season long rankings competition, I would anticipate that I rank
himigher than consensus because I think it's going to be boring,
but I think he will get more value. But I
think it's a very good point by you Rickson that
he will still be a difficult tight end to have
(25:10):
on your roster given the nature of how the season
will play out. But I think you will finish higher
than his ranking.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Kyle basically Kyler Murray of tight Ends.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yes, yes, in a different way. Yes, all right?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Moving on from this group tight Ends thirteen to eighteen,
Dallas Goddard, Dalton Kincaid, Colston Loveland, Tyler, Warren, Hunter, Henry,
and Kyle Pitts.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Some youth here, some obviously.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
A couple of rookies here, some not youth here, some
some veterans as well. Kind of a mixed mixed bag
in this grouping debro. Let's just let's do the rookies quickly.
Loveland and Warren year one, what degree of interest do
you have in having them on your roster?
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Not a lot, dude. I mean, I just Loveland.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
It's such a.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
It's such a tough target tree to figure out, Like
where you're looking at where the target's gonna go? Is
it gonna be DJM? Where's a good Roman donsday? Is
it gonna be Luther Burdon? Is it gonna be DeAndre Swift?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Like?
Speaker 5 (26:11):
And when this all comes back to like we're all like, Okay,
who's gonna get the targets? The thing I keep coming
back to is we still have to see Caleb Williams
support one really good fantasy option, much less multiple ones.
I'm staying away from Loveland, and I'm staying away from
Tyler Warren, Like I don't really have a lot of
(26:32):
like want or need to draft these guys because I
think they're gonna be in every single twenty twenty six
BI low sleeper value article that will be written. I
think Loveland. My worry not only is it how many
options can Caleb Williams support because he is coming off
a legendarily bad rookie season where he was bottom five
(26:53):
in every single metric, and there's a lot of a
lot of hope and how that is all tied to
just Ben Johnson figuring it all out for Caleb Williams.
I don't know if that happens. And Tyler Warren again,
you got Josh Downs, you got a healthy, supposedly a
healthy version of Michael Pittman, Alec Pierce, ad Nai Mitchell,
(27:17):
all those guys, and yet we're still talking about an
offense that is going to be led by Anthony Richardson
or Daniel Jones. Neither one of those guys are going
to lead a high volume passing offense. So Tyler Warren like, okay, fine,
he leads this team in targets, what is that? Is that.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Eighty?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (27:37):
And now we're talking about a team that's top that's
top five in red zone rushing rate. So he gets
Adie targets and he scores three touchdowns. Even if he
gets Adie targets and he scores three touchdowns, then what
are you talking about? Probably like tight end fifteen. So
I'm not this entire tier of guys I want nothing
to do with. Like Dallas Goddard, He's fine, but there's
(27:57):
not a lot of ceiling there. Dalton Kincaid, I didn't
even know if he's gonna be healthy this year. All
the injuries he dealt with, and what does his route
chare look like? Both of these rookies. No Hunter Henry
maybe is the only guy here, and that's only with
Drake May taking a leap. But honestly, if I get
to this tier of tight ends and I don't have
(28:19):
one yet and I'm in a draft, I'm probably just saying,
forget this tier of tight ends. I'm gonna look, I'm
gonna pull up the schedule and say, Okay, who is
playing who in Week one? And I'm just gonna stream
somebody in Week one and figure it out from there.
I'm just not gonna worry about drafting a lot of
these guys.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Ericson would you rather draft one of the rookies here
or one of these young guys like Kincaid or Pitts
who haven't done it yet but at least have been
in the league.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I still like Kinkaid because I just think Kinkaid was
just completely injured last year. I don't think he was
really ever healthy. And I think that the Buffalo Bills,
by the moves that they've made by not investing a
lot in other pass catchers, that they believe that Kincaid
can still take a step. And again, I know that
we want Titans to break out right away, and a
lot of them do, but some of them still take
(29:05):
time in the league a couple of years to really fire.
Josh Allen is still his quarterback again, besides Khalil Shakir,
I think that kenk could still be second on the
team in targets. Like we know, Shakiir is mister reliable,
But if there's a ceiling elevator in this Bill's offense,
I think that could still be Kinkaid if he is healthy.
So I still like taking shots on him as a
late round tight end. I like Hunter Henry a lot,
(29:28):
like when I'm looking if I'm all the Titans are
gone and I'm just like, oh man, I got I
need a guy to start Week one. Hunter Henry is
the guy that I want again, talking about my love
for Drake May. Last year, Hunter Henry fifth in red
zone targets, second in targets inside the ten yard line.
Talking about touchdown people being allergic to the end zone,
Hunter Henry scored twice. He scored two touchdowns despite having
(29:49):
really strong red zone usage. So again, a lot of
new pieces in this Patriots offense. You know, who was
there all year long with Drake May, Hunter Henry, and
it was also very weird because Austin Hooper was also
very involved in that offense. But it's a different offense
this year. It's Josh McDaniels. It's not Alex Van Pelt anymore,
who relied a lot on two tight end sets. So
(30:10):
if it's more of Hunter Henry, Stevon Diggs is still
coming off in major ACL injury. I think Henry is
a dark horse candidate to lead the Patriots and targets,
and that is very rare to find any player outside
the top fifteen tight ends in consensus ranking. So that's
the guy that in case of emergency, I'm like, all
the tight ends are gone, I need to start somebody
week one. Hunter Henry is the guy. I like it.
(30:31):
I like the idea because I compare him with my
late round quarterback. It's like back to back picks Hunter, Henry,
Drake May. I got my quarterback and tight end figured out.
If they hit, they'll hit together. So those are the
guys that I like.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
On a scale of one to ten. How open are
you guys to me making the case for Kyle Pitts.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I'm always I'm always open to some entertainment.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Can I give you a negative number?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
He's twenty four years old and you just said that
Titans sometimes take a couple, you know, years to develop
and get there.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I'm gonna try this out laughing.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
And that's I feel like the case is open and shut.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Worm.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
He's coming off his career high in touchdowns, last touchdowns.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
The thing that we're not comming like Howney was that dude,
he's better than be got more touchdowns and he's here.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
He's got up in touchdowns every season. He had won
in his rookie season, two in his second season, three
and his third season, and four in his fourth season.
He u is probably playing with the most arm talented
quarterback he's ever played with. Now you full season of
Michael Pennix. He had a yards per reception of almost
(31:49):
thirteen last year.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Listen, I am not saying, is.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
That a bulletproof case you're making work. What I'm saying
is it sounds like more like we're having a therapy
session here, like you're working through some.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
What I'm saying is he's not going to cost you anything.
He's tight end eighteen right now. Yea, And this is
a guy who is a top five pick, who's still
only twenty four years old and will still be twenty
four at the start of the season, who has had
injury stuff that might have set him back early on
in the career. And again, this is a long developing position.
It takes a while to get good at the NFL level.
I would rather draft him than Pat Fryarmooth. I'd rather
(32:29):
draft him than like Frankly Dalton Kincaid. I'd rather draft
him than any of these rookies, you know, and I
like the better long term, of course, but you're one
these rookies. I'm just making the case that as a
complete lottery ticket at the point in the draft that
you will be in when you need to draft him,
if you want to get him on your roster, I
(32:50):
will be interested in getting him and seeing if this
is the year it happens. I will not be making
him my tight end one. But I think there's a
case to be made that the upside is such that
he should be ranked higher than this.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I guess that's my ultimate point.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
I just made the case for for Kelsey and against
you guys. I can't fight you on another player, but
I wanted to at least throw it out there, given
the pedigree with Pitts and the fact that he's still
so young.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Ericson Debro do you want to you want to take it?
Seems like you were, you were ready to go to battle.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
I dude, I just can't.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Like when a guy gets out targeted by Ray Ray McLeod.
It's it's very considered.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
An Erickson made one point and absolutely just came off
the top ropes.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
So with that one point, So, I mean, I understand if, like,
if you were to make the argument for Pitts over
like Lovelan and Warren again both all guys that have
really strong draft capital, but Pitt's obviously playing in the NFL,
has a little bit more experience. I kind of just
feel like, I feel like the Falcons are kind of
over Pits. That's my concern that he needs to like
(33:54):
new team, he needs like new everything. Like again, to
your point, he was a.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
Full time player last year, mate.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Could he be following the path of you know, such
as like a Delaney Walker right where he's kind of
like forgotten about if the forty nine ers moves to
the Titans and becomes like an integral part of their
passing game. I think that Kyle Pitts maybe just needs
a fresh start somewhere else, like on a I know
that he keep his floater on with some trade rumors.
So because the Falcons seems so much more about Bijon,
(34:21):
Like all they've done since drafting is draft more skilled players.
Like that's all that they've done, and it's under different regime. Again,
it wasn't the same regime that like, So those are
my concerns with Pits and that this specific coaching staff
doesn't necessarily have the same amount of will we got
to get this is last year, Like he's in a
contract year. So yeah, I know that every talk about
he's gonna have a big year and then he has
(34:42):
x a laundry list of things he has to work
on to get better at. So I mean a tight
end tight end eighteen like you said, he's free. But
so I don't hate the value perspective with a Kyle
Pitts player. But I mean, if we're shooting for upside,
give me Isaiah Likely man if Mark Andrews washes out,
I can put Isaiah Likely in my lineup. I've seen
that guy be a tight end one Like that's where
(35:04):
I would choose for upside with a younger player would
be Isaiah, likely in case Andrew's flames out or you know,
gets hurt or something like that. So just to make
the upside debate in somewhere similar range where Pitts is going.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
My biggest issue with Pitts is that I can't be
in on a player when the team itself, to Erickson's point,
when the team themselves is out on the player, like
and just for just this one point when they decided.
If you look at where he started at the beginning
of the season, this guy was playing ninety six seventy
(35:36):
nine seventy percent of the snaps, eighty percent of the snaps.
From week eight on he eclipped sixty percent of the
snaps in only two games. So like for me, I
can't be in on a player that the team is
telling us he's not even a full time starter in
our offense and the fact of like just the routes
themselves being limited are going to crush him.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I tried to make the cases mostly that kid even
put up the white flag, He's like that, can't near
mind it.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Was worth it was worth a shot.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I didn't really believe it as I was saying it,
I with you, Unlikely by the way, Erickson, we'll just
kind of wrap up with the rest of them. I mean,
I don't think we need to go too deep.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
I got one guy I really want to bring up
through this.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I'll just read the names quickly from this is from
nineteen through thirty two at tight end Pat Fire with
zach ertz Isaiah Likely, Kadot and Mikah Sicki, Dalton Schultz,
col Comet, Chika kon Kuo, Jtavian Sanders, Mason Taylor, Brenton Strange,
Juwan Johnson, Elijah Arroyo, and the aforementioned Noah Gray. I
think Likely is a great, great late draft pick because
if Andrews misses any time or does off the cliff,
(36:42):
he is going to be a top six tight end.
Like I am that confident in like his ability to
be an elite tight end if Andrews is not in
the picture. So I think Likely is a great late
draft pick. Even if you have a good tight end
that you're comfortable with a lot of these other names,
it's more like you kind of squint to see the case.
I think Brenton's range is pretty undervalued. Honestly too. We
(37:03):
already talked a bit about that offense and the other show,
and then of course there's some rookies here as well.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Diever, you said you had a name or two that
you wanted to highlight.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
Two guys in this list and you want to talk
about upside and one of them we've seen it, and
the other one. I'm going to make a huge case
for Mike Giseki in this tier. He shouldn't be in
this tier. I mean, look, we know that the top
three pass and I know the splits last year. I
wrote about this in the primer every single week. The
splits last year with Gaseki, what he did when Tea
was in and out of the lineup, We're just massive,
(37:32):
Like Kaseki wasn't a part of the offense whenever t
was out. I think you could see that kind of
even out this year because andre Yoshavas was not a
high end target runner. We still all fully believe that
the Bengals defense is going to be terrible this year,
so we know that Joe Burrow is going to be
chucking the ball. So Gaseki as the true number three
option in that passing attack. You could sell me in
(37:54):
a world where he's a top twelve tight end this year.
And the other guy that I want to bring up here,
and I think that he is the dollar store version
of Sam Laporta in terms of he is going to
be definitively the number two target in this passing attack.
We've seen this quarterback support multiple guys and one of
(38:16):
them being a tight end in previous stops. Mason Taylor
is gonna get a ton of targets. Dude, there is
nobody after Garrett Wilson to catch the ball there. I'm
sorry Al Bazzard, no Malachai Corley, no Arian Smith, no
all these other guys. Mason Taylor is gonna be there
starting every like every down tight end I think a
week one and I think you're looking at is is
(38:40):
the Jets offense? Gross? Sure? Does that still mean that
people got to catch catch the ball? And he has
no other target competition in that passing attack besides Garrett Wilson. Yeah, man,
Like I think Mason Taylor is the guy, like if
you want to wait and punt tight end, whether it's
best ball and what have you. He is the name
of a guy that like nobody's tall talking about that
(39:01):
could go out and get one hundred.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Targets this year, Eric say, what do you think about
this group?
Speaker 4 (39:06):
So I think Friar was kind of undervalued, to be honest.
I mean he's a clear cut number two option on
the Pittsburgh Steelers given we don't know who the quarterback is,
but Arthur Smith. His offense is revolve around tight ends,
like there's the reason why Farmus caught a ton of
balls last year. And it's funny where I'm sure you
know this. He sucks against the Ravens, but he's good
against every other team, so you just don't play them
(39:26):
against the Ravens. And again, I think he's gonna fit
Again to your point about Travis Kelcey finishing much higher
than his ranking, I don't think is going to be
tight end nineteen, Like I think that's low for where
he's gonna ENDU finishes based on his body of work,
like he's always around that back end tight end one
range if he stays healthy. And again it's very dependent
on the quarterback. But after Hunter Henry, I think that
(39:47):
he is an emergency tight end, like, hey, I need
somebody someone's steady that's going to not kill my lineup.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Every single week.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
I think again, I don't think that he has like
insane upside, So it depends on the format that you're
looking for. But I don't hate him as an option.
The guy I do really like that I think is
kind of being slept on is I'm sure I'm surprised
you didn't bring them up.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Is Chicka Hounkua?
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Calvin Ridley's a number one? Who's the number two on
the Tennessee Titans. They drafted a bunch of rookies. So
I'll push back on that because this is the same
coaching staff that was there last year and who was
breaking out at the end of the season last year
was Chickakunkuo like he was having monster games. And again
going back to is this current coaching staff invested in
(40:28):
said player. This coaching staff showed the willingness to get
the ball to Chicka Honko at the end of last year,
and again it flew away under the radar because the
Tennessee Titans were a terrible team. You know, fantasy playoffs
were wrapped up, it was over. But Chicka coon Quo
finished the season really strong over his last three games
last year of his rookie contract. Again talking about young
tight ends, talking about guys explosive with the ball in
(40:50):
their hands. Chicka Conko is not a fall or catch
the ball and fall down like he can create yards
after the catch with chunk plays. So when we're looking
for okay, cam More, we got question marks, how good
can he be? Well, what if it's not Calvin Ridley,
that's just like commanding this like uber high target share.
Tyler Lockett, he disappeared last year and it's a bunch
(41:10):
of rookies. But then there's chickacoon Quo. So I think
that he's really interesting as a guy that can kind
of emerge from the woodwork of Oh if cam Ward hits,
I think that he's going to probably bring a Conquo
with him.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Any others just final thoughts debro on like tight end
strategy in general, you try to get one of these
early guys.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
I mean, this entire episode just makes me feel like
I'm I'm going to be paying up, like I'm gonna
walk away probably from a lot of different drafts with
one of the top three guys in a lot of
my draft basically it's the top three or Evan Ingram
is probably going to be my tight end strategy for
most of my drafts this.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Year ericson what's your strategy?
Speaker 4 (41:50):
So I like Evan Ingram, so that's going to be.
But again, I don't know how early he's going to go. Right,
we have him tight end four and he's tight end
ten in ECR.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
The highest he's.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
Gonna get with what a Yrickson tight end five, like,
probably tight end six because he probably doesn't even hop TJ.
Howkinson like with the name value Flix tight end six.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
Yeah, so that's probably the guy that I'll circle if
I'm not going for one of the league guys. I think, honestly,
I me and George kittle Man just the fear that
he strikes into my opponent every single week because they
know he can put up a thirty five point game.
I kind of like having that power with George kittle
I know he's gonna miss a couple gas because he's
get banged up, but just the consistency that Debro laid out.
He's a top five tight end every single year. And
(42:32):
if we're ever gonna look at a season where they
could rely on him the most, wouldn't it be a
year where Deebo's gone, Ayuk's coming back from the injury.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
I mean, Rock Jerry got.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
The bag, just got paid.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
So I like Rock Purty a lot. So George Kittle
would probably be the guy, especially in half PPR, where
you can you get so much benefit from the touchdowns,
the receiving yards and you don't need as much reception
heaviness from the guys like Brock Bauers or Trade McBride.
So I like that, but ultimately I still try to
lean on just going late round tight end. So a
(43:03):
couple of guys I'm circling in the middle rounds. I
really like Tuckercraft a lot. I know Deebo doesn't like
the Packers passing game, but I think Tuckercraft's a beast.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
I think that he's I love Craft.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Why I can't make a case against Craft. It comes
down to Green Bay's passing attack.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
And that's fine.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
But the way I see it is, Okay, if none
of these receivers are gonna step up, then make then
make the tight end, make him the focal point of
the offense. Make him George Kittle, and make him discord
because he's from a talent standpoint man like yards after
the catch man, Tucker Craft.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Can do it.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
All man, He's I've loved him ever since he first
came out, and I was very much on him over
over Luke Muskrave and that worked out.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
So Tucker Craft has been good to me.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
So I'm gonna continue to pound the table for Tucker
Craft and then after that it's as hunder Henry Sison.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
All right, we'll go ahead and wrap up there.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
If anybody missed the quarterback version of this episode, we
releasedt a couple of days ago on audio and on YouTube,
so be sure to check out. That was a very
fun conversation as well. Thanks everybody for tuning into both episodes,
Quarterbacks and tight ends. Here we're in too May. We're
thinking about real rankings now. It's a very fun It
gonna be a very fun summer here talking about rankings.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Are you drafting Kyle Pitts. Let us know in the comments, because.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Uh, Worm's making the case for good content. Worm is
not doing all lot.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
Put him on the Microsoft ad because he needs the
most help because of.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
When the ad read was done in the show, Thank
You gets traded into the Ravens.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
Worm'm gonna have a jersey tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
No, but if they if isay likely didn't exist. Yes,
I would be all in on it like that. For
Ericson and d Bro and Kyle Pitts, I'm ride warmly
thanks everybody for tuning in.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
We'll see again next time.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Pros Fantasy Football podcast.
If you love the show, the best freeway to support
us is by leaving a positive review on Apple podcasts
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to our.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Fantasy Pros
Hello everybody. Welcome into the Fantasy Pros Football Podcast. I'm
Ryan Warmley, joined today by Andrew Rickson and Derek Brown Fellas.
We are talking top thirty two tight ends. We already
did this version of the show for the quarterbacks earlier
this week, so if you missed that, be sure to
check it out on YouTube or audio or wherever you
get your podcast. That was a very fun episode. We
went a little longer on that one. Then we're going
to go today on the tight ends.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Guys.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Let's dive right in running through the top thirty two,
the very clear top four, at least according to our
early consensus rankings, which by the way, can be found
at fantasypros dot com slash rankings.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Our Brock Bowers at tight.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
End one, Trey McBride it to George kittle a three,
is Sam Laporta at four. That's the clear tier one
in our early ECR across. I think it's about forty
experts at this point in the offseason, so pos was
subject to change. I don't think these grouping is going
to change too much here ericson.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
No, I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I'm pretty lockstep with the top three guys and where
they are. But I just Sam Laporta, it's just the
target competition, man. I have trouble wrapping my mind around.
This was the issue last year and why I was
pushing back against him as tight end one because why
should we draft a guy tight end one when he's
not even the number one target earner on his team.
So yep, that was a big concern for me with
(01:12):
him last year and him back up in this top
tier again when if anything it's tougher, then it's usually
because now Jamison Williams is like.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
A full fledged breakout.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Last year was like, Okay, maybe this guy's gonna break out,
We're not so sure. But now it's like, oh well,
now you all have Saint Brown as the alpha target earner.
You have Jameson Williams, who they're already talking up again
as a breakout candidate, which I didn't think was even
possible because he already broke out with like he's going
to break out again. So I mean Laporta, yes, he's
a tight end, he's really talented, great after the catch,
(01:41):
But I don't know, maybe in this new offense, if
they have an extra different wrinkle with Ben Johnson gone,
they involved him a little bit more. Again, health was
also a big issue with him last year, But there
are so many other tight ends I'd rather have than
Laporta that go after him. So he's the only guy
that I really pushed back against being up in the
top four.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
De bro I was talking on the quarterback episode about
how I really wanted to get one of those kind
of first three names at quarterback, which meant that I
wasn't going to get a lot of high end tight
ends because you can really only have.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Room to do one or the other for the way
I want to build my team.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Having said that, I really do want in leagues where
I choose to wait a quarterback, I really want to
get one of Bowers or McBride, Like I do like
all four of these tight ends to varying degrees, but
I just feel like Bowers is such an easy tight
end one and Trade McBride is such an easy tight
end two that I'm going to feel way more comfortable
at the position if i can just set it and
forget it with one of those two guys. And I
do think they kind of stand apart from the others
(02:38):
even within this tier. Of course, all four of them
I still think are very good in this tier.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
I don't disagree with you on Trade McBride and brock Bowers. Now, now,
to to Erickson's point, Samport was not my tight end
one of last year. That was Trade McBride, and if
he could just score touchdowns he would have been the
runaway tight end one. But we all kind of poo
pooed Kyler Murray and his outlook on the last episode.
(03:05):
So for me, man like I've got, I have no
problem with anybody draft and tradem Trad McBride or brock Bauers.
The guy that I've I feel like, honestly I'm gonna
be drafting the most out of this top three to
four is George Keittle. I'm gonna be drafting him everywhere
because you're not paying the premium as much as you
(03:25):
are for brock Bauers and Trade McBride. You've got target competition.
Like to Erickson's point, Rock Bowers is freaking awesome. He
had no target competition last year. He's got a lot
of target competition this year. Now again, is he still
going to probably lead the team in targets? Sure, but
adding talented players around him when they were basically none
outside of Jacoby Myers, who was also hurt last year.
(03:47):
Is going to impact him much less? Are we going
to see because for a lot of the team for
the year, the Raiders were passing the ball a ton.
Is that going to continue with Pete Carroll and Chip
Kelly in town? I don't know, man, So i'd say,
like going back to George Kittle, we know what we're
getting out of him, man Like, since twenty eighteen, he's
(04:08):
only finished outside the top four tight ends once. He's
never been lower than tight end six. In the last
three years. He's been top two in two of those seasons.
So George Kittle, and I'm getting a discount on him,
and he's entering the year healthy. And there's Brandon Ayuk.
What are we getting out of him this year? And
there's no debo, Samuel, George Kittle could easily be the
(04:32):
tight end one this year and nobody should be surprised
and everybody should take the discount.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It's a good point.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
I think I'm discounting it by saying it's those top
two you're and it's not that I was saying Kittle
should be ranked lower, but you're right. He especially the
cost you can get him at compared to those other two.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I think.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I just want to ask you, guys, this is something
that fits points out a lot when we talk about
Trey McBride and some other players. Some guys, it's it's
not that like touchdown regression is coming. They just have
kind of an allergy of the end zone. Maybe it's
the offense they're in, maybe it's the player, maybe it
is just dumb luck. But Trey McBride, you talk about
how he would have been the runaway tight end one
(05:12):
if he'd scored touchdowns. This isn't like a fluke year
if him not scoring touchdowns. He scored one touchdown twenty
twenty two, his rookie season. He scored three touchdowns in
twenty twenty three, and he scored two touchdowns in twenty
twenty four. And that's the last two years, despite getting
over one hundred targets each year, having a combined five
touchdowns the last two years. Is this the player he
is debro whether it can be ascribed to the offense
(05:36):
or the player, or do you think there is a
chance that we have a nine touchdown season this year.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
I I'm just I think it's all fluke, dude, I
do I don't buy anyto that stuff because going back
to George Kittle, didn't we all say that about George Kittle,
Oh what if he could just score touchdowns when in
twenty eighteen to twenty twenty it was five touchdowns, five touchdowns,
two touchdowns, and then he proceeds to score six eleven
to six and a over the next four seasons. So
(06:02):
I think it just comes down to a lot of
that has to also talk like we could talk about
the red zone targets for certain players, but also it
comes down to target quality and what that looks like
as well. I think a lot of that is more
on Kyler Murray than it is on I just don't
subscribe to a player of Trey McBride six four, two
forty five. All the talent in the world can command
(06:24):
targets and all that kind of stuff, but oh well,
he he's not good when we get into the red
zone and he's not very like, come on, man, like,
I no no offense to fits, but I know I
put no stock.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
He's not planting his flag.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
Fits.
Speaker 5 (06:41):
And I have talked about that, like with McBride and
the touchdowns and stuff like that I think it's more
a variance than it's anything that I'm going to actually
like believe that he just can't score touchdowns.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
I want to weigh in here as someone that had
a lot of money on Trey McBride anytime touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Adding that every single week, Dude, didn't we bet like
that he was going to score three against the Panthers.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Dude, I thought it was all.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
I was like, the regression was just like matching because
like the Panthers go up the moment they were like.
Speaker 5 (07:13):
Bottoms are the worst against tight ends.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
I thought it was inevitable.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
So I do want to layer up because again I
was watching these like very closely trying to figure out
like what's going on, Like why is he not scoring
any touchdowns? And they jam targets to Marvin Harrison junior
and that end zone like they were like they were
trying to do it, and you look at just like
end zone targets, red zone targets Marvin Harrison Junior. Again,
he scored a lot of touchdowns last year in an
underwhelming rookie season, he had more touchdowns and training Bride,
(07:38):
which you look at you're like, that's so weird, right,
But they were really focusing in at least Kyler Murray was.
I'm not sure if that was Murray or if it
was the play call and be like, hey, we got
a force the ball to Marvin Harrison Junior and it.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Was not effective. Really.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
I get he scored eight touchdowns, but I think it
was eight touchdowns, but it took a lot of red
zone targets to get there. So I think that when
you zoom out, it's just better to on these guys
eventually finding the endzone.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Again, he's lader to the end zone until he's not.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
All of the usage metrics that we look at that
are predictive for touchdowns suggest this guy's going to catch
more touchdowns than he did a year ago, if he
has a twenty seven percent target chair, if he has
all these monster usage numbers as the number one pass
catcher in his offense. So I'll continue to bet on
McBride to score touchdowns. Maybe I'll lose money, maybe I won't,
but I can at least be okay with the process
(08:24):
behind doing it. And I do want to say one
more thing to bringing it back to George Kittle talking
about touchdowns in general, I think that how you approach.
Tight end is a little bit more league specific to
your format. I would rather have a guy like a
McBride or a brock Bowers, where these guys rack up receptions,
so in a full PPR they give you a bigger
(08:44):
edge at tight end versus half PPR where you just
got a score touchdown, like that's all you're kind of
making on so you're getting I think less of an
advantage with taking those types of players that you're not
benefiting as much from their receptions, which is why Bowers
and McBride are ranked as the top two guys versus
the touchdowns, which is like a half PPR. Like that's
why George Kittle Again, if you look at standard rankings
(09:06):
or standard projection, George Kittle is number one in everything
because he gets there by efficiency with yards and touchdowns,
not necessarily a ton of receptions. So again somebody to
keep in mind as what is your format. Okay, I
think I would rather wait a little bit more, maybe
not go after McBride or Bauers, or in a half
PPR versus a full PPR.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I mean somebody like Mark Andrew's kind of benefiting in
that you know standard format as well, just.
Speaker 5 (09:33):
To highlight how bad it was for McBride fifteen point
six fantasy points per game. He was number the tight
end two. Last year he was tight in one and
expected fantasy points per game with nineteen point two. So
you like add touchdowns to this insane volume in this
otherworldly like like production, and he is the runaway clear
(09:55):
number one dude.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And as Debro puts in our chat, zero red zone target, Ye,
this is Carolina.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
I know it was pretty bad because I remember there
was like they were trying to get in. I remember
him running a certain route in the end zone. They
were trying to get in the ball, but he was
like triple covered. Well he was over the middle of
the field Kyler Murray and then the head a jam
at to Marvin Harrison who didn't catch it, who dropped
it or something.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
So it was super frustrating.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
So yeah, yeah, welcome now to this week's Chasing Challenges,
brought to you by Microsoft. Just like the athletes who
push boundaries and redefine what's possible, business decision makers today
are turning challenges into opportunities. Microsoft meets you where you
are with tools and guidance that help you make an impact.
With safe Secure AI solutions, players and teams are facing
their own challenges. In this segment, we spotlight athletes or
(10:43):
teams that are currently undergoing a challenge, what this means
from a fantasy or betting standpoint, and examine how we
think they.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Can overcome them.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Whatever challenge you're facing, Microsoft empowers you with the expertise
to say bring it on. This week, we're discussing the
challenge faced by Mark Andrews as he enters the twenty
twenty five season with some question about his fantasy value
for the first.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Time in years.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Andrews has been a model of consistency at the tight
end position since being drafted in twenty eighteen, as Lamar
Jackson's favorite target and the Ravens all time leader in
receiving touchdowns. But there are more question marks in twenty
twenty five than ever before, with Andrews turning thirty before
the season and uber talented Isaiah likely threatening to earn
even more targets this year. And that's not even mentioning
(11:23):
the fact that Andrews is coming off the worst game
of his career in that brutal finish to the Ravens
playoff run in Buffalo Andrews is still a Tier two
tight end in the consensus rankings, with Baltimore reportedly considered
trading him this offseason, and it's unclear how many targets
will be available for him this year. He'll have to
shake off the painful memories of that playoff game and
deeper target competitions to bounce back and give fantasy managers
(11:44):
another elite tight end season. That's it for this week's
Chasing challenges. Remember Microsoft's AI solutions empower you to take
bold steps and make informed decisions, sparking new ideas to
help drive your business forward. With Microsoft, as you are
trusted partner, you can navigate your journey with confidence, innovative solutions,
and reaching new possibilities. Visit Microsoft dot com Slash challengers
(12:05):
to learn more. All right, we are going to the
next group of tight ends here. I'm ignoring all these
annoying things that you and Ericson are putting in our
private chat.
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Of course, he picks a Raven for the challenging situation.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Okay, first of all, I've done a bunch of these
Challenger reads, and I think that's the first Raven I've chosen.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Uh, it just happened to work out that way.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
I'm gone, you haven't done a show with us in
a while.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
They're like, you couldn't have to pile pitts and bone
the guy who needs well.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
I truthfully, it was you missed it. It was it
was where in the show the read came. So I
had to pick a name that either we just talked
about and I was talking about it Tier one guys
they don't have any challenges, or a guy that we're
about to talk about. And Andrews is the one that
stuck out because he had such.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
A challenging circumstances Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
At any rate.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
The next group of tight Ends are talking about this
is this is I made kind of a larger tier
this So this isn't again directly aligned with the tears
in ECR. This is just kind of there's a large
group of names here that I think you could have
varying degrees in interest.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
So from tight End five to twelve, TJ.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Hockinson, John hu Smith, Mark Andrews, Travis Kelsey, David and Joke, who,
Evan Ingram, Tucker Craft, and Jake Ferguson. Again, that's tight
Ends five through twelve. Ericson who stands out for you here?
Speaker 4 (13:19):
Uh, the joker, Evan Ingram, Yeah, stands out the most.
I mean that's the guy I won't like. We talked
about the elite tight ends, but I have Evan Ingram
tight end four. Yes, I just think that a man
when we're talking about a full PPR. Evan Ingram, even
last year, was still really effective, averaging over five catches
per contest in the games that he played last year,
even though he only played nine games. But we've seen
(13:41):
him when he's been fully healthy, he just racks up perceptions.
And I could see very much him emerging as bo
Nix's in his second year, his number one checkdown option,
like his Binkie. Who's going to Oh, I'm under pressure
because Bonix was not good under pressure last year. Okay,
how do we fix that? Gave him a nice big
target outlet from the slot. However, they deploy Evan Ingram.
But we've seen Sean Payne get unique with certain tight
(14:03):
ends before. I don't think he's had the right tight
end on the roster in Denver.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
So what do you do?
Speaker 4 (14:07):
He went out and got Evan Ingram in free agency.
They didn't draft or invest anything else in the draft
really at tight end, so I think Evan Ingram again.
Courtland Sutton is there. He was the alpha last year.
But will we have a vice script on the target
chair as much as he did?
Speaker 3 (14:21):
I don't think so.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
I think Evan Ingram's going to see signific amount of targets.
I think it wouldn't surprise me if Evan Ingram maybe
isn't the leaving leading receiver in terms of yards, but
in terms of sheer volume in targets, I think he
could out target Courtland Sutton in his first year with
bo Nick. So, Evan Ingram has been a tight end
six in his first season with all of his new
teams with the Giants, the Jaguars, Robos are next.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Steeber, what do you think about Ingram? I?
Speaker 3 (14:44):
I can't.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
I can't agree anymore. It is not possible for me
to agree with anything more that Erickson has stated here,
man like is he hit everything perfectly here? I have
Evan Ingram as my tight end four as well. I
have him above Sam Laporta, TJ. Hockins and Mark Andrews,
all those guys. For everything that Erickson laid out, Evan
(15:07):
Ingram is going to lead this team. In targets. That
that's gonna happen over Courtland Sutton. Courtland Sutton got a
ton of volume because he was legit the only full
time player in that offense last year. That's not happening
this year. So Courtland Sutton move aside. Evan Ingram. And
the thing I want to point out about Evan Ingram
is that, yeah, dude, like, let's just go back to
twenty twenty three. He was the leader of the Jacksonville
(15:29):
Jaguars passing attack. He was the tight end four in
that season. I think you could see another one hundred
and forty targets for Evan Ingram. Now here's the difference.
Evan Ingram has never gotten the red zone usage that
he deserves. Not last year, but the two previous seasons.
In twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three, this guy
ranked fourteenth and nineteenth in red zone targets and still
(15:51):
put up the seasons that he did as the tight
end four and tight end seven. If he gets top
ten usage in the red zone, and again we're going
back to touchdown stuff. Evan Ingram one touchdown four four three,
one three, three six. He's never had a season where
he's scored more than six touchdowns. Heck, outside of that
(16:11):
his rookie season, he's never scored more than four touchdowns.
If he gets into that seven to nine range and
gets that type of target volume, he's gonna be a
top three option at the position. He has he even
quietly has tight end one overall upside like that's the
type of upside that Evan Ingram brings. And yet in
ECR he's tight in ten behind Hockinson, who is definitively
(16:36):
probably the third option in that offense. John Newsmith. Does
he really continue to run as the number one option
in the Miami passing attack? Probably not. Mark Andrews. I
like him, and I think he's a wonderful value this year.
But DeAndre Hopkins there is he gonna siphon off some
of the touchdowns that really really helped Andrews last year.
(16:57):
Travis Kelce heck, no David and who is even the quarterback,
No dude. Like I think Evan Ingram's ranking right now
is egregiously wrong.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
So I don't disagree on Ingram over the guy I'm
about to ask about, but I do think we have
to discuss Kelsey just given what he's done in his career.
And also I wonder if the discount is too much
on him because everybody is, oh, he's older, they're saving
him for the playoffs. He was tight end six or
tight end seven in points per game through seventeen weeks
(17:30):
last season, and that was with only three touchdowns. I
get that, like the yards perception, we're way down compared
to his career. I get that his life, you know,
like the explosiveness was not there. If the touchdowns come
back up, like, would it surprise you to see them
using more in the red zone this year? And if
those three touchdowns get back up to like eight and
he's still you know, getting one hundred targets like that
(17:52):
would not shock me, And I wonder if maybe the
discount is too far Ericson.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
I do agree that there's definitely some value potential with
Travis Kelsey, and he was fourth and expected fantasy points
per game last year. But again you talked about the touchdowns.
He had the opportunities last year. He was first in
red zone targets, and yet he didn't score the touchdowns. Now, okay,
does he fix that? Does he score double digit touchdowns?
Am I happy that he has a mark Andrews twenty
(18:17):
twenty four season. Probably not, Like that's the concern that
everything else is gone. Like he's not racking up double
digit targets anymore, he's not getting the yardage. He's catching
a couple of balls here every single week, but he
needs the touchdowns. And then he doesn't score a touchdown.
Why started him? And he got me no points? So
that's where I get concerned with him. I think in
a best ball format, I think it makes more sense
(18:38):
if you're stacking with Patrick Mahomes you want to get
that touchdown correlation.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I think that makes sense. But I don't know.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Man, he's thirty five years old. We clearly we saw
him hit the age cliff like it was so apparent.
I mean watching him in the playoffs, man, like, the
guy looked like a shell of himself. And I get
it's a little bit different at the end of the season,
but he was considering retiring, so I'm I'm just towards
other tight end.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
He looked like that the entirety of the season, though. Man,
he just looks like lumbering, like he Oh gosh, I'm
gonna say that. I know it's blasphemous, but dude, he
looked in a lot of instances, as robotic as he
looked in, as lumbering as he was, Like, he looked
like just the Ferrari version of like in your end
of career, Jason witten Man like it was. It wasn't
(19:21):
pretty man like.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
I don't think Travis Kelsey can reverse father time that much.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
I I don't want to play like too much like
armchair psychiatrist here. I do think like the Chiefs, they
were riding very high going into last season. I think
a lot of them kind of assumed that they would
be getting the three pete and not.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
That they didn't work hard.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I'm not at all suggesting that, but that, like I
think mentally they were like, coming off back to back
super Bowls, were the best team, the best dynasty of
this league's ever seen. Like, you know, he was traveling
with Taylor Swift all summer like all that stuff. I
think the fact that they got beat down in the
Super Bowl this last year and he still does to
come back, I think he wants to go out on
a high note. I think he's going to work even
(20:06):
harder than he did last summer to try to get
something close, you know, back close to what he was.
I am not saying this guy should be a Tier
one tight end. I'm not saying he's going to be
prime Travis Kelsey. I'm just saying this kind of grouping
of tight ends, I'm with you on Ingram should be
higher some of these other ones, like I might be
inclined to just say, like I'll I'm going to buy
(20:28):
into the first ballot Hall of Famer having one last
ride over taking David Njoku or John Usmith or somebody
like that who's currently in the same Tierism is kind
of my ultimate point. And I was very very out
on Kelsey last year. I wanted nothing to do with him.
I wanted all the other guys who were in that
kind of tier one tier two range over him. This year,
(20:51):
I wonder if maybe the discount will be so far
because everybody's looking at the age, because everybody's looking at
last year, when again, if he catches three, are those touchdowns,
like you're talking about a top five tight end season
last year in the worst year of his career. I
don't think he's going to totally reverse to Tran again.
He's not gonna be tight end one this year. But
I just wonder if maybe ericson it's it's gone a little.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Too far the other way.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
I guess I'm just trying to paint the picture of
am I excited to get Travis Kelcey on my team?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Like what if he starts off slow again? Then no?
Speaker 1 (21:21):
I mean I think that you're the division of a
boring vet. It's not about excitement.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
I mean, I like, I like driving excited guys. I
mean that's why I Evan Ingram right, he's going. He's
ranked after Travis Kelcey. Evan Ingram, like we said, talk
about leading his team in targets. He's significantly younger than
Travis kell Again, he has injury concerns as well. But
I don't know, I don't want to overthink this. Like
Travis Kelsey had an age cliff last year. Guys don't
get better with age, right eventually, What if he just
(21:44):
kind of like phases out entirely and he's not even feature.
Maybe they use Noah graymore in the red zone. Maybe
those red zone targets are going to other players. So
I mean, Marky Sprow is gonna be back the dude, Like,
I don't know, I just feel like last.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But do you think, I mean, Kelsey's not coming back
to be the backup tight end. He's he would just
retire if that was the point.
Speaker 5 (22:03):
Noo, He's got increased target competition if Hollywood stays healthy,
if for Shee Rice, if Xavier Worthy, all those guys
are Jalen Royals, if all those guys are on the field,
and stuff like that. Like that's also like it's gonna
hurt him, Like I mean, just looking at game logs
last year too, like it is clear he's slowed down,
like he didn't earn and including the playoffs, he didn't
(22:25):
earn more than a well, excuse me, he earned double
digit targets only once after week thirteen. He didn't He
only crossed ninety receiving yards once after week ten. Like
I understand him coming back and chasing a ring, and
I think he's gonna be good for the Chiefs, but
(22:46):
I don't know if he's gonna be great for us
in fantasy. Man. It's just I think you could still
look at it and say, Okay, he got one hundred
and thirty three targets and he got ninety seven receptions.
What if the target volume goes down some because he's
not the guy he used to be and the receptions
go down, then yeah, you could be looking at just
a more expensive version of Mark Andrews and you're praying
(23:09):
for those touchdowns.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
I think I think I'm really I think I'm really
more confident than you guys that he's going to catch
more touchdowns this year. I think if he has a health,
if he's health, but do you.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Think the receptions and the yardage and all that other
kind of stuff, because all the rest of it's like, dude,
he got ninety seven balls last year and he still
didn't get over on nine hundred receiving ards, Like that's
not good, dude.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I also think too, like there are other I mean
talking about tight ends, right, most titands are touchdown dependent anyway,
So why don't want to drop the most expensive touchdown
dependent tight end?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Fair?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Because because what I'm saying is I don't know how
expensive he's going to be. I think it's not that
I'm saying he should be ranked aggressively. It's that I'm
anticipating the ranking of the ADP dropping, you know, to
a point where it becomes it's gone too far in
the other direction.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
I think to my issue with Kelsey is because he
is Travis Kelcey and he has that touchdown upside, like
you've alluded to, I'm gonna be afraid to move on
from him if he's underperforming. I'm gonna be putting it
in my lineup every sing like that's why like.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
You, because he's gonna go off in the bat one.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
I want an.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
Elite tight end or I want to punt it because
if a guy sucks, I want to move on right away.
But Travis Kelcey, to me, it seems like, I mean,
he's Travis Kelsey, He's got my home. He's scored touchdowns
last week, but then this week he did it, and
it's just he seems like more of a headache to
manage on a roster versus, Oh, this is like a
great value play. Like he's also going in that range
of tight end, at that eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve
(24:34):
range that historically speaking, these are bad adp bets to
draft the back end or that middle tier of tight
end where they're not the elite, but they're just the
best of the quote unquote late round tight ends.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
And I'd rather than PUNTI deep.
Speaker 5 (24:48):
We do that every year.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
I actually don't think I'm going to be rostering a
lot of Kelsey. I might not have him anywhere, but
I think in our like like in the Fantasy Pros
season long rankings competition, I would anticipate that I rank
himigher than consensus because I think it's going to be boring,
but I think he will get more value. But I
think it's a very good point by you Rickson that
he will still be a difficult tight end to have
(25:10):
on your roster given the nature of how the season
will play out. But I think you will finish higher
than his ranking.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
Kyle basically Kyler Murray of tight Ends.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yes, yes, in a different way. Yes, all right?
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Moving on from this group tight Ends thirteen to eighteen,
Dallas Goddard, Dalton Kincaid, Colston Loveland, Tyler, Warren, Hunter, Henry,
and Kyle Pitts.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Some youth here, some obviously.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
A couple of rookies here, some not youth here, some
some veterans as well. Kind of a mixed mixed bag
in this grouping debro. Let's just let's do the rookies quickly.
Loveland and Warren year one, what degree of interest do
you have in having them on your roster?
Speaker 5 (25:50):
Not a lot, dude. I mean, I just Loveland.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
It's such a.
Speaker 5 (25:58):
It's such a tough target tree to figure out, Like
where you're looking at where the target's gonna go? Is
it gonna be DJM? Where's a good Roman donsday? Is
it gonna be Luther Burdon? Is it gonna be DeAndre Swift?
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Like?
Speaker 5 (26:11):
And when this all comes back to like we're all like, Okay,
who's gonna get the targets? The thing I keep coming
back to is we still have to see Caleb Williams
support one really good fantasy option, much less multiple ones.
I'm staying away from Loveland, and I'm staying away from
Tyler Warren, Like I don't really have a lot of
(26:32):
like want or need to draft these guys because I
think they're gonna be in every single twenty twenty six
BI low sleeper value article that will be written. I
think Loveland. My worry not only is it how many
options can Caleb Williams support because he is coming off
a legendarily bad rookie season where he was bottom five
(26:53):
in every single metric, and there's a lot of a
lot of hope and how that is all tied to
just Ben Johnson figuring it all out for Caleb Williams.
I don't know if that happens. And Tyler Warren again,
you got Josh Downs, you got a healthy, supposedly a
healthy version of Michael Pittman, Alec Pierce, ad Nai Mitchell,
(27:17):
all those guys, and yet we're still talking about an
offense that is going to be led by Anthony Richardson
or Daniel Jones. Neither one of those guys are going
to lead a high volume passing offense. So Tyler Warren like, okay, fine,
he leads this team in targets, what is that? Is that.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Eighty?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (27:37):
And now we're talking about a team that's top that's
top five in red zone rushing rate. So he gets
Adie targets and he scores three touchdowns. Even if he
gets Adie targets and he scores three touchdowns, then what
are you talking about? Probably like tight end fifteen. So
I'm not this entire tier of guys I want nothing
to do with. Like Dallas Goddard, He's fine, but there's
(27:57):
not a lot of ceiling there. Dalton Kincaid, I didn't
even know if he's gonna be healthy this year. All
the injuries he dealt with, and what does his route
chare look like? Both of these rookies. No Hunter Henry
maybe is the only guy here, and that's only with
Drake May taking a leap. But honestly, if I get
to this tier of tight ends and I don't have
(28:19):
one yet and I'm in a draft, I'm probably just saying,
forget this tier of tight ends. I'm gonna look, I'm
gonna pull up the schedule and say, Okay, who is
playing who in Week one? And I'm just gonna stream
somebody in Week one and figure it out from there.
I'm just not gonna worry about drafting a lot of
these guys.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Ericson would you rather draft one of the rookies here
or one of these young guys like Kincaid or Pitts
who haven't done it yet but at least have been
in the league.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
I still like Kinkaid because I just think Kinkaid was
just completely injured last year. I don't think he was
really ever healthy. And I think that the Buffalo Bills,
by the moves that they've made by not investing a
lot in other pass catchers, that they believe that Kincaid
can still take a step. And again, I know that
we want Titans to break out right away, and a
lot of them do, but some of them still take
(29:05):
time in the league a couple of years to really fire.
Josh Allen is still his quarterback again, besides Khalil Shakir,
I think that kenk could still be second on the
team in targets. Like we know, Shakiir is mister reliable,
But if there's a ceiling elevator in this Bill's offense,
I think that could still be Kinkaid if he is healthy.
So I still like taking shots on him as a
late round tight end. I like Hunter Henry a lot,
(29:28):
like when I'm looking if I'm all the Titans are
gone and I'm just like, oh man, I got I
need a guy to start Week one. Hunter Henry is
the guy that I want again, talking about my love
for Drake May. Last year, Hunter Henry fifth in red
zone targets, second in targets inside the ten yard line.
Talking about touchdown people being allergic to the end zone,
Hunter Henry scored twice. He scored two touchdowns despite having
(29:49):
really strong red zone usage. So again, a lot of
new pieces in this Patriots offense. You know, who was
there all year long with Drake May, Hunter Henry, and
it was also very weird because Austin Hooper was also
very involved in that offense. But it's a different offense
this year. It's Josh McDaniels. It's not Alex Van Pelt anymore,
who relied a lot on two tight end sets. So
(30:10):
if it's more of Hunter Henry, Stevon Diggs is still
coming off in major ACL injury. I think Henry is
a dark horse candidate to lead the Patriots and targets,
and that is very rare to find any player outside
the top fifteen tight ends in consensus ranking. So that's
the guy that in case of emergency, I'm like, all
the tight ends are gone, I need to start somebody
week one. Hunter Henry is the guy. I like it.
(30:31):
I like the idea because I compare him with my
late round quarterback. It's like back to back picks Hunter, Henry,
Drake May. I got my quarterback and tight end figured out.
If they hit, they'll hit together. So those are the
guys that I like.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
On a scale of one to ten. How open are
you guys to me making the case for Kyle Pitts.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
I'm always I'm always open to some entertainment.
Speaker 5 (30:54):
Can I give you a negative number?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
He's twenty four years old and you just said that
Titans sometimes take a couple, you know, years to develop
and get there.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
I'm gonna try this out laughing.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
And that's I feel like the case is open and shut.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Worm.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
He's coming off his career high in touchdowns, last touchdowns.
Speaker 4 (31:16):
The thing that we're not comming like Howney was that dude,
he's better than be got more touchdowns and he's here.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
He's got up in touchdowns every season. He had won
in his rookie season, two in his second season, three
and his third season, and four in his fourth season.
He u is probably playing with the most arm talented
quarterback he's ever played with. Now you full season of
Michael Pennix. He had a yards per reception of almost
(31:49):
thirteen last year.
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Listen, I am not saying, is.
Speaker 5 (31:55):
That a bulletproof case you're making work. What I'm saying
is it sounds like more like we're having a therapy
session here, like you're working through some.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
What I'm saying is he's not going to cost you anything.
He's tight end eighteen right now. Yea, And this is
a guy who is a top five pick, who's still
only twenty four years old and will still be twenty
four at the start of the season, who has had
injury stuff that might have set him back early on
in the career. And again, this is a long developing position.
It takes a while to get good at the NFL level.
I would rather draft him than Pat Fryarmooth. I'd rather
(32:29):
draft him than like Frankly Dalton Kincaid. I'd rather draft
him than any of these rookies, you know, and I
like the better long term, of course, but you're one
these rookies. I'm just making the case that as a
complete lottery ticket at the point in the draft that
you will be in when you need to draft him,
if you want to get him on your roster, I
(32:50):
will be interested in getting him and seeing if this
is the year it happens. I will not be making
him my tight end one. But I think there's a
case to be made that the upside is such that
he should be ranked higher than this.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
I guess that's my ultimate point.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
I just made the case for for Kelsey and against
you guys. I can't fight you on another player, but
I wanted to at least throw it out there, given
the pedigree with Pitts and the fact that he's still
so young.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Ericson Debro do you want to you want to take it?
Seems like you were, you were ready to go to battle.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
I dude, I just can't.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
Like when a guy gets out targeted by Ray Ray McLeod.
It's it's very considered.
Speaker 5 (33:29):
An Erickson made one point and absolutely just came off
the top ropes.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
So with that one point, So, I mean, I understand if, like,
if you were to make the argument for Pitts over
like Lovelan and Warren again both all guys that have
really strong draft capital, but Pitt's obviously playing in the NFL,
has a little bit more experience. I kind of just
feel like, I feel like the Falcons are kind of
over Pits. That's my concern that he needs to like
(33:54):
new team, he needs like new everything. Like again, to
your point, he was a.
Speaker 5 (33:58):
Full time player last year, mate.
Speaker 4 (34:00):
Could he be following the path of you know, such
as like a Delaney Walker right where he's kind of
like forgotten about if the forty nine ers moves to
the Titans and becomes like an integral part of their
passing game. I think that Kyle Pitts maybe just needs
a fresh start somewhere else, like on a I know
that he keep his floater on with some trade rumors.
So because the Falcons seems so much more about Bijon,
(34:21):
Like all they've done since drafting is draft more skilled players.
Like that's all that they've done, and it's under different regime. Again,
it wasn't the same regime that like, So those are
my concerns with Pits and that this specific coaching staff
doesn't necessarily have the same amount of will we got
to get this is last year, Like he's in a
contract year. So yeah, I know that every talk about
he's gonna have a big year and then he has
(34:42):
x a laundry list of things he has to work
on to get better at. So I mean a tight
end tight end eighteen like you said, he's free. But
so I don't hate the value perspective with a Kyle
Pitts player. But I mean, if we're shooting for upside,
give me Isaiah Likely man if Mark Andrews washes out,
I can put Isaiah Likely in my lineup. I've seen
that guy be a tight end one Like that's where
(35:04):
I would choose for upside with a younger player would
be Isaiah, likely in case Andrew's flames out or you know,
gets hurt or something like that. So just to make
the upside debate in somewhere similar range where Pitts is going.
Speaker 5 (35:16):
My biggest issue with Pitts is that I can't be
in on a player when the team itself, to Erickson's point,
when the team themselves is out on the player, like
and just for just this one point when they decided.
If you look at where he started at the beginning
of the season, this guy was playing ninety six seventy
(35:36):
nine seventy percent of the snaps, eighty percent of the snaps.
From week eight on he eclipped sixty percent of the
snaps in only two games. So like for me, I
can't be in on a player that the team is
telling us he's not even a full time starter in
our offense and the fact of like just the routes
themselves being limited are going to crush him.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
I tried to make the cases mostly that kid even
put up the white flag, He's like that, can't near
mind it.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Was worth it was worth a shot.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
I didn't really believe it as I was saying it,
I with you, Unlikely by the way, Erickson, we'll just
kind of wrap up with the rest of them. I mean,
I don't think we need to go too deep.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
I got one guy I really want to bring up
through this.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
I'll just read the names quickly from this is from
nineteen through thirty two at tight end Pat Fire with
zach ertz Isaiah Likely, Kadot and Mikah Sicki, Dalton Schultz,
col Comet, Chika kon Kuo, Jtavian Sanders, Mason Taylor, Brenton Strange,
Juwan Johnson, Elijah Arroyo, and the aforementioned Noah Gray. I
think Likely is a great, great late draft pick because
if Andrews misses any time or does off the cliff,
(36:42):
he is going to be a top six tight end.
Like I am that confident in like his ability to
be an elite tight end if Andrews is not in
the picture. So I think Likely is a great late
draft pick. Even if you have a good tight end
that you're comfortable with a lot of these other names,
it's more like you kind of squint to see the case.
I think Brenton's range is pretty undervalued. Honestly too. We
(37:03):
already talked a bit about that offense and the other show,
and then of course there's some rookies here as well.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
Diever, you said you had a name or two that
you wanted to highlight.
Speaker 5 (37:10):
Two guys in this list and you want to talk
about upside and one of them we've seen it, and
the other one. I'm going to make a huge case
for Mike Giseki in this tier. He shouldn't be in
this tier. I mean, look, we know that the top
three pass and I know the splits last year. I
wrote about this in the primer every single week. The
splits last year with Gaseki, what he did when Tea
was in and out of the lineup, We're just massive,
(37:32):
Like Kaseki wasn't a part of the offense whenever t
was out. I think you could see that kind of
even out this year because andre Yoshavas was not a
high end target runner. We still all fully believe that
the Bengals defense is going to be terrible this year,
so we know that Joe Burrow is going to be
chucking the ball. So Gaseki as the true number three
option in that passing attack. You could sell me in
(37:54):
a world where he's a top twelve tight end this year.
And the other guy that I want to bring up here,
and I think that he is the dollar store version
of Sam Laporta in terms of he is going to
be definitively the number two target in this passing attack.
We've seen this quarterback support multiple guys and one of
(38:16):
them being a tight end in previous stops. Mason Taylor
is gonna get a ton of targets. Dude, there is
nobody after Garrett Wilson to catch the ball there. I'm
sorry Al Bazzard, no Malachai Corley, no Arian Smith, no
all these other guys. Mason Taylor is gonna be there
starting every like every down tight end I think a
week one and I think you're looking at is is
(38:40):
the Jets offense? Gross? Sure? Does that still mean that
people got to catch catch the ball? And he has
no other target competition in that passing attack besides Garrett Wilson. Yeah, man,
Like I think Mason Taylor is the guy, like if
you want to wait and punt tight end, whether it's
best ball and what have you. He is the name
of a guy that like nobody's tall talking about that
(39:01):
could go out and get one hundred.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Targets this year, Eric say, what do you think about
this group?
Speaker 4 (39:06):
So I think Friar was kind of undervalued, to be honest.
I mean he's a clear cut number two option on
the Pittsburgh Steelers given we don't know who the quarterback is,
but Arthur Smith. His offense is revolve around tight ends,
like there's the reason why Farmus caught a ton of
balls last year. And it's funny where I'm sure you
know this. He sucks against the Ravens, but he's good
against every other team, so you just don't play them
(39:26):
against the Ravens. And again, I think he's gonna fit
Again to your point about Travis Kelcey finishing much higher
than his ranking, I don't think is going to be
tight end nineteen, Like I think that's low for where
he's gonna ENDU finishes based on his body of work,
like he's always around that back end tight end one
range if he stays healthy. And again it's very dependent
on the quarterback. But after Hunter Henry, I think that
(39:47):
he is an emergency tight end, like, hey, I need
somebody someone's steady that's going to not kill my lineup.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Every single week.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
I think again, I don't think that he has like
insane upside, So it depends on the format that you're
looking for. But I don't hate him as an option.
The guy I do really like that I think is
kind of being slept on is I'm sure I'm surprised
you didn't bring them up.
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Is Chicka Hounkua?
Speaker 4 (40:07):
Calvin Ridley's a number one? Who's the number two on
the Tennessee Titans. They drafted a bunch of rookies. So
I'll push back on that because this is the same
coaching staff that was there last year and who was
breaking out at the end of the season last year
was Chickakunkuo like he was having monster games. And again
going back to is this current coaching staff invested in
(40:28):
said player. This coaching staff showed the willingness to get
the ball to Chicka Honko at the end of last year,
and again it flew away under the radar because the
Tennessee Titans were a terrible team. You know, fantasy playoffs
were wrapped up, it was over. But Chicka coon Quo
finished the season really strong over his last three games
last year of his rookie contract. Again talking about young
tight ends, talking about guys explosive with the ball in
(40:50):
their hands. Chicka Conko is not a fall or catch
the ball and fall down like he can create yards
after the catch with chunk plays. So when we're looking
for okay, cam More, we got question marks, how good
can he be? Well, what if it's not Calvin Ridley,
that's just like commanding this like uber high target share.
Tyler Lockett, he disappeared last year and it's a bunch
(41:10):
of rookies. But then there's chickacoon Quo. So I think
that he's really interesting as a guy that can kind
of emerge from the woodwork of Oh if cam Ward hits,
I think that he's going to probably bring a Conquo
with him.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Any others just final thoughts debro on like tight end
strategy in general, you try to get one of these
early guys.
Speaker 5 (41:27):
I mean, this entire episode just makes me feel like
I'm I'm going to be paying up, like I'm gonna
walk away probably from a lot of different drafts with
one of the top three guys in a lot of
my draft basically it's the top three or Evan Ingram
is probably going to be my tight end strategy for
most of my drafts this.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Year ericson what's your strategy?
Speaker 4 (41:50):
So I like Evan Ingram, so that's going to be.
But again, I don't know how early he's going to go. Right,
we have him tight end four and he's tight end
ten in ECR.
Speaker 3 (41:58):
The highest he's.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
Gonna get with what a Yrickson tight end five, like,
probably tight end six because he probably doesn't even hop TJ.
Howkinson like with the name value Flix tight end six.
Speaker 4 (42:08):
Yeah, so that's probably the guy that I'll circle if
I'm not going for one of the league guys. I think, honestly,
I me and George kittle Man just the fear that
he strikes into my opponent every single week because they
know he can put up a thirty five point game.
I kind of like having that power with George kittle
I know he's gonna miss a couple gas because he's
get banged up, but just the consistency that Debro laid out.
He's a top five tight end every single year. And
(42:32):
if we're ever gonna look at a season where they
could rely on him the most, wouldn't it be a
year where Deebo's gone, Ayuk's coming back from the injury.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
I mean, Rock Jerry got.
Speaker 5 (42:40):
The bag, just got paid.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
So I like Rock Purty a lot. So George Kittle
would probably be the guy, especially in half PPR, where
you can you get so much benefit from the touchdowns,
the receiving yards and you don't need as much reception
heaviness from the guys like Brock Bauers or Trade McBride.
So I like that, but ultimately I still try to
lean on just going late round tight end. So a
(43:03):
couple of guys I'm circling in the middle rounds. I
really like Tuckercraft a lot. I know Deebo doesn't like
the Packers passing game, but I think Tuckercraft's a beast.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
I think that he's I love Craft.
Speaker 5 (43:12):
Why I can't make a case against Craft. It comes
down to Green Bay's passing attack.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
And that's fine.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
But the way I see it is, Okay, if none
of these receivers are gonna step up, then make then
make the tight end, make him the focal point of
the offense. Make him George Kittle, and make him discord
because he's from a talent standpoint man like yards after
the catch man, Tucker Craft.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Can do it.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
All man, He's I've loved him ever since he first
came out, and I was very much on him over
over Luke Muskrave and that worked out.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
So Tucker Craft has been good to me.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
So I'm gonna continue to pound the table for Tucker
Craft and then after that it's as hunder Henry Sison.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
All right, we'll go ahead and wrap up there.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
If anybody missed the quarterback version of this episode, we
releasedt a couple of days ago on audio and on YouTube,
so be sure to check out. That was a very
fun conversation as well. Thanks everybody for tuning into both episodes,
Quarterbacks and tight ends. Here we're in too May. We're
thinking about real rankings now. It's a very fun It
gonna be a very fun summer here talking about rankings.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Are you drafting Kyle Pitts. Let us know in the comments, because.
Speaker 1 (44:11):
Uh, Worm's making the case for good content. Worm is
not doing all lot.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
Put him on the Microsoft ad because he needs the
most help because of.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
When the ad read was done in the show, Thank
You gets traded into the Ravens.
Speaker 5 (44:28):
Worm'm gonna have a jersey tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
No, but if they if isay likely didn't exist. Yes,
I would be all in on it like that. For
Ericson and d Bro and Kyle Pitts, I'm ride warmly
thanks everybody for tuning in.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
We'll see again next time.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Pros Fantasy Football podcast.
If you love the show, the best freeway to support
us is by leaving a positive review on Apple podcasts
at Fantasypros dot com, slash review, or on Spotify. Follow
us on Instagram and TikTok at Fantasy Pros, and subscribe
to our.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Fantasy Pros
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Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
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