Week 14 Lineup Advice: Starts, Sits, Player Debates, and TD Calls (Ep. 1879)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everybody. Welcome into the Fantasy pros Football Podcast. I'm
Ryan Warmley, joined by Jake Seey from The Athletic and
by Pat Fitzmorris. Guys, it has been a minute since
we have done a show to three of us. There
were some technical difficulties going on. Then of course we
had the holiday where we took a break on Thursday.
Hope everybody enjoyed their Thanksgivings with their family, their friends,
their football, all that fun stuff, their food as well.

(00:22):
How'd you guys enjoy your Thanksgiving?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
Here?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Jake, what'd you do?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Typical family stuff? And celebrated my fifty seventh birthday For
everybody that's trying to guess, it's not close to that,
but I don't believe that for one. Yeah, it was
somewhere in between thirty seven and fifty seven. I'll give
you that idea. But it was a good weekend because
that I still had the leftover cheesecake that we finally
finished cinnamon roll, just cheesecake that we finally finished off yesterday.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Nice, my mom makes me scratch fits. You look great
for fifty seven.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
How are you doing doing well?

Speaker 4 (00:54):
Yeah? We spent our Thanksgiving fostering a dog from the
animal shelter where my wife volunteers that we have since adopted.
So I should have known it was like less than
one percent you wouldn't wind up adopting this dog. And
sure enough, what kind? Yeah, congrats, it's a lab Retriever.
That's what it's listed. You think there's probably some pitball

(01:16):
in there too. It's he's a mott laborate.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
You enjoy the hair for the rest of your life.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
I know that's the thing. Our other dog is a doodle,
so there's no hair whatsoever, like no shedding, and yeah,
this guy is. This guy's gonna shed there's no question.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, congrats to you and to your new dog, Nolan
for getting a new a nice home. He really does
fits his enemy pictures yesterday. There's a lot of stuff
that's different about him and my dog Wally, But the
ears do look very similar when they when they kind
of perk up, they look really identical.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
I think I think a bigger question for you to
worm is like, do you even know this reference of this?
Do you know what Star Wars is? Since you don't
know what.

Speaker 3 (01:56):
I know what Star Wars is?

Speaker 1 (02:01):
I uh, you know, we did a we did an eighties,
And I know Star Wars came on the seventies, but
we did in eighties and nineties. Uh, like trivia thing
with Seth and Debro on one of their Twitch streams
and they had me and ericson joined because they were like, oh,
the young guys, they never know anything, and I stopped
all of them. I just want that on record that

(02:22):
I missed the I missed questions on toys like the
Cabbage Batch kids, and questions on like older video games,
but every TV and movie question and pop culture I
got right.

Speaker 3 (02:33):
So do you jen?

Speaker 4 (02:34):
You know which characters which Star Wars characters call endoor home?

Speaker 3 (02:39):
The Ewoks?

Speaker 4 (02:41):
Very good?

Speaker 1 (02:41):
I played like Star Wars Battlefront two on the computer,
growing you.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
The original song at the end of Return of the
Jedi from the Ewoks that they ruined and replaced? Do
you remember that one?

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Like what it's called?

Speaker 2 (02:54):
No, like the yub Yub? Do you actually remember the
yub Yub? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
See, Okay, you've redeemed yourself.

Speaker 1 (03:02):
Say that in the background on the video game, which
I know, but okay, I'm sure nobody cares about this.
Here in week fourteen, they are ready to get to
some Fantasy Talks, so apologies to everybody for that detour.
A quick provider that all of our twenty twenty five
consensus rankings and tiers can be found at fantasypros dot
com slash rankings. This is our must starts, must sit,
waiver ads and touchdown calls show.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Here we pack a.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Lot into our Thursday episodes. We're gonna start with the
waiver ads as we usually do and kind of ask
if we're willing to start these guys, and guys, it
is week fourteen, so we were at the point where
like this is do or die for a lot of teams.
You either don't really care about this week because you're
kind of locked into your standing, or this is like
the start of the playoffs essentially for you. And there
are four teams on BI I forgot to write them down.
It's the the Patriots, the Niners, the Giants, and the

(03:48):
Panthers are the form So those are the teams that
are not playing this week. You have any of those
players in your lineups, be sure to take them out.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Guys. Let's start with the waiver ads here.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Like I mentioned at an I Mitchell had a bit
of a breakout here in his last game, really strong
performance over one hundred yards and a touchdown.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
Jake, I'll start with you.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Is he somebody that here in Week fourteen, with four
teams on buy, that you're willing to consider starting?

Speaker 2 (04:10):
I am mostly because you saw the first game seven targets,
only two receptions, mostly because of his own fault. Then
he has seven targets, two receptions, somewhat his fault, somewhat
Tyrod Taylor's fault, and then they keep going back to him.
So the three games since he's been playing for the
Jets actually out in the field twenty nine point eighteen
target percentage. That's sixth in the league. Oh, by the way,
fifty nine point nine percent of his team's air yards

(04:32):
is number one in the league.

Speaker 4 (04:34):
Over there.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Again, it's a three game stretch. But my point here
is that they're going to him, They're going to him,
and then they're going to them again, even if it's
not connecting. I drew the comparison is, what's the big
difference between Anoni Mitchell and Alec Pierce or Tory Franklin
When Tory Franklin was Toroy Franklin. And that kind of
gives you the idea of like, look, it's not a guarantee.
I'm not calling Anni Mitchell a top twenty wide receiver.

(04:55):
This isn't somebody also though that we've never thought has talent,
Like he has talent. It just has connected in the NFL.
He's flashed at times with the Colts before he's with
the Jets. So in the wide receiver three low in conversation,
when we have all those teams on a buy as
that boom er Bus play most weeks, a wide receiver
four a Kaishawn Booty type, Yeah, I'm willing to play
it because it's gonna be one of those situations. So

(05:15):
if I'm chasing ceiling, I'm chasing Mitchell. If I don't
want the risks, he still folds in that risk bucket.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Fitz Adama. Mitchell is wide receiver twenty nine in ECR.
He was wide receiver thirty four to start the week.
So he's gone up five spots here just in the
last couple of days.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
In fact, he's no.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
One spot behind Rome of Dunday, which infact, you told
me that a month end of the season, I would
have thought you were crazy. But wide receiver twenty nine,
that's kind of in that range where you could go
either direction depending on what the rest of your team
looks like. Do you have him rked in a similar range?
Is he somebody you're willing to start here this week
if you need the spot?

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Yeah, wide receiver thirty one? Is that about where you are, Jake?

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah? Very close? Yeah, right in the same range, right,
like we're right on the cusp of that thirties. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
Yeah, And I did pick him up in like three
leagues this week, and in the leagues where I did,
I'm very desperate at wide receivers because of buys and injuries.
Leagues where I have Stefan Diggs and tenor Ron McMillan.
I think a lot of the new ad Mitchell buyers
are probably in pretty similar spots what I like here.
In addition to the air yards thing that Jake mentioned,
the Jets now have this very condensed passing game. It's Mitchell,

(06:18):
it's John Matchi, Breise Hall, a little bit of Mason Taylor.
That's pretty much it. And Tyrod Taylor is giving the
Jets a functional passing game, unlike justin fields.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Do you think that.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
There's a chance this is like like when you look
at this, are you looking at this as more just
an opportunity thing, or like this is a guy who
has a lot of athleticism and a degree of talent.
I mean this was like a second round pick in
rookie drafts, like the year he came out, you know
of the draft. So Jake to you, is Adam I
Mitchell somebody that could be actually taking a legitimate step

(06:52):
forward as like a long term fantasy asset, or is
this just like, hey, they have nobody in the passing game,
so we'll take advantage for a few weeks here, maybe
finished the season with him, and then next year like
kind of falling back to earth. How do you view
this long term?

Speaker 2 (07:05):
Can I say that like I'm not trying to straddle
the fence, but somewhere in between. It's not mutually exclusive
to say that he can break out and be what
we hope that it could be in the NFL as
somebody who also still wasn't a complete prospect and asn't
a complete wide receiver. He still has his own faults,
It still isn't a complete route runner. So all those
things being said, though, like Garrett Wilson's still the number
one this team, but also depends on what the quarterback

(07:26):
situation is next year. Obviously, none of us are assuming
that right now. The quarterback for the Jets twenty twenty
six is the quarterback on the team right now. So
that comes down to it. If it was still Tyron, like,
maybe they don't find a solution and maybe they draft
somebody later and then they hold off for one more
year and just let Tyrod take the helm with Garrett
Wilson back, I think that Edi and Mitchell being right

(07:47):
now where we're talking about him as potentially pushing the
top thirty, he just falls into a wide receiver three
or four next year with Garrett Wilson, mostly because even
though as Fits brought up, Tyron is making it somewhat
of a capable of passing offense, it's still not a
high volume one and one that's still going to lean
on the backfield that also throws to breeze hole in
that backfield. So he falls into that wide receiver four.

(08:07):
But yeah, if it's a if the and with a
top two pick and draft Mendoza or even more or
somebody like that, you can see him in the wide
receiver three conversation, even with a healthy Garrett Wilson.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Fitz let's look at another receiver here. This Adam I.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Mitchell was number one as the way of wire pick
up in the consensus rankings this week. Number two is
Jayden Higgins. He's wide receiver thirty six in the rankings
for this week. So again kind of in that range
where depending on how badly you need the spot, you
might be forced to start him, but you could go
another direction maybe again depending on who you have. So
for you, is Higgins somebody that you're willing to consider
starting in week fourteen?

Speaker 4 (08:41):
Yeah, I'm right in line with ECR. I've got him
at wide receiver thirty six too. I think Jayden Higgins
it's really good and has a bright future, and I
wish I had him in more Dynasty leagues. I just
wish he were playing more than about sixty percent of
the offensive snaps every game. And he has been right
right there at sixty percent, like consistently every week. And
that's just how Nick Kayley wants to run it. He

(09:03):
wants to give Xavier Hutchinson snaps too. I don't know why,
because Jaden Higgins looks like he's a star in the making.
But that's what's keeping Higgins as sort of a low
end wide receiver three for me, Jake, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, I'm a little bit behind cosensus, mostly because of
what fits just said. And this is coming from somebody
that missed on Higgins because I thought there was a
good chance that he could be the number two from
day one with no healthy tank tell because I compared
it to Marvin Jones, and like you put Marvin Jones
back in his heyday, on this team, it is touchdown reliant,
like this is Marvin Jones, only on thy eleven hundred yards.
He's never gone for fifteen hundred. But I thought that

(09:39):
was the perfect fit alongside Nico Collins. And interesting enough
that Dame Brugler, my cohort, the Draft Prospect Guide of Guides,
compared him to Nico Collins. I thought that was a
little bit aggressive, But all that being said is the
ilk is there of the skill set. I agree with
Fitz and I would love to see more. But at
the same time, it wasn't just the routes.

Speaker 3 (09:57):
It's that even on.

Speaker 2 (09:58):
Fewer routes for Hutches, CJ. Strouds still targeted Hutchinson as
much as he did Jaden Higgins. Like I would almost
prefer Davis Mills being back at quarterback because at least
he was targeting Higgins more consistently than CJ. Stroud is.
So I'm a little bit lower. I don't have him
outside of my top forty, but I just I wish
this was just a better scenario. Throw Higgins on some

(10:19):
of these other teams, and he's in a better case scenario.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Marvin Jones. There's a name I've not heard a long time.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
Asking doesn't it can't you see Marvin Jowd.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
I do like that comp a lot three touchdowns in
his last six games, but even with that, he has
not finished higher than wide receiver twenty two in that
span of time and half VPR scoring. So the ceiling
just has not been there given the usage. But we
all like the player.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
We'll see what the usage continues to look like.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
I want to throw a running back in here, Chris
Rodriguez going up against the Vikings. This is somebody who like,
has he been the most efficient runner in the world. No,
but he's getting the opportunity here for this offense. He
is getting the opportunity to score touchdowns as much as
this offensive scoring touchdowns. He's RB twenty seven here at Minnesota. Jake,

(11:08):
what do you think about that? Is that too high?
Too lowg just right? Is he somebody who willing to start?

Speaker 2 (11:12):
I just looked that's actually right where I have him,
so I'm okay with it. It's just Rodriguez. If he
gets a touchdown, he's like RB twenty four. If he
doesn't get a touchdown, he's like RB twenty four. Like
he gets the yards or the touchdown. He doesn't seem
to be able to put both together. I think he
has one top twenty performance, and granted that came in.
Now that he is the clear lead, the commanders have
clearly turned to Rodriguez. Jacory krossky Merrit is more of

(11:36):
a hold in dynasty and keeper leagues for next year
and maybe it clicks then. But he's not happening. We
know McNichols is a timeshare piece in the passing game.
So Rodriguez is the lead, but he's kind of, in
my opinion on uninspiring lead. He's somebody that if I
just needed six points, which how many times do you're like,
oh my god, six points is going to make or
break it for me, then you put in Rodriguez. But

(11:56):
that's why he's in that range, like I have him
right now with no Tray Benson, one spot behind Zonovan Night,
one spot in front of David Montgomery going tonight when
we're recording this, which might look foolish by the time,
because either Dave Montgomery RB twenty eight is wrong, either
he's way higher or way lower, like there's no in
between for him. But that kind of gives you the
ideas like Rodriguez on way more touches is kind of

(12:17):
Daved Montgomery. It's funny enough to.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Say, yeah, fits, he's got eleven carries, at least eleven
carries in three of his last four games. But to
Jake's point, he has been inside the top twenty just once.
It was that game against Seattle actually against a really
good defense, where he had sixty five yards in a touchdown.
Even then he was just RB fifteen, so a good day,
but it's not he was, you know, inside the top
ten or anything.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
How do you see him?

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Is he somebody against the a Vikings defense that can
be run on at times this season? Is he somebody
you're willing to start?

Speaker 4 (12:46):
Yeah, So you've mentioned at least eleven carries and three
of his last four, but he's only had more than
twelve carries once this season, topping out at fifteen, so
we can pretty much peg the carry total let around
ten to twelve. There might not be a more format
sensitive running back in the league right now for fantasy,

(13:07):
Like in standard, sure, I'll start Chris Rodriguez half point PPR.
Maybe full point PPR No, thanks, no interest in starting
a guy who's got one catch all season. So it
really depends on the format. But in half PPR, I'm
right in line with Jake and ECR. I got him
running back.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
Twenty seven one catch, he's got half his targets fits.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
Process.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Yeah that one catch game in Week eleven in Miami
against Miami catch right, Yeah, yeah, I guess all right,
let's go to play your flag players here, Jake, who
are you planting your flag on this week?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Yeah? So I'm going to Chris Godwin. And it really
comes down to I never thought i'd be saying this
after what we saw earlier this year. Is the fact
that Chris Gotwin when he first came back all the
way up to the point where he reaggravated the injury,
was like, man, Chris Godwin doesn't look right. He doesn't
look like Chris Godwin doesn't look like healthy Chris Godwin.
And then last week, from the jump in that game,
I'm watching it and I'm like, oh my god, he

(14:04):
looks explosive, like he was separating, like separating, like we
remember Chris Godwin separating. And the best part about it
is Baker Mayfield went to him and then went to
him again, and then kept going to him and kept
going to him, kept going to him, like Wow, this
is this is the Chris Godwin remember who finished top
three before the injury where it was Baker Mayfield just
love looking his way. And I'm not saying he's top three.

(14:26):
I'm not even putting him as a wide receiver one,
but I am locking him right back into wide receiver
two because all I needed was a healthy Chris Godwin.
And maybe I'm overreacting to what I watched last week,
but he looked healthy. And even if he's ninety five
percent with Baker looking to him at that comfort level there,
even if Mike Evans comes back, I wouldn't trust Mike
Evans in his first game back. And I'm a little

(14:47):
dubious if he's really coming back this week maybe next week,
but either way, I think Chris Godwin is in the
wide receiver two conversation and potentially I'm starting him over
at BUKA, no question about it, and I probably consider
putting him inside my top twenty this week.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
Okay, So that that's very different than consensus in ECR.
He is wide receiver thirty one and half PPR scoring
for the week, and by comparison, is up at wide receiver.
BUKA is up at thirteen. So there's like almost twenty
spots a gap.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
But how is it BUKA thirteen? What has he done
in the last six weeks?

Speaker 4 (15:19):
I lot of targets.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
I don't you know.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Who else has a lot of targets, Trey Tucker. Trey
Tucker has one double digit score since week thirteen. I
don't care if they're not good. The targets are just
falling on the ground.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
We do have more in a BUKA coming up. But
it's interesting, like the wide gap there and then and
also even just sitting in a BUKA aside the wide gap
between where you are ranking Godwin and where he is ranked.

Speaker 2 (15:42):
Here before Fitz jumps in the top twenty because I'm
so passionate about this, Buka is going to finish this
wide receiver one and Chris Godwin's going to have forty
yards and zero touchdown. So just letting you know, because
when I'm this passionate, it just completely goes the other direction.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Yeah, fits, how do you see Godwin specifically?

Speaker 1 (15:58):
I mean, like I said, Randy, you're thirty one here.
That's really low for where Jake sees it.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
All right, So we disagree on Abuka, will table that
for now, but I agree with Jake like Godwin did
look good. I had the Buccaneers on the quad box
last week and I'm like, wait, is that Chris Godwin?
Like he looks He looks fantastic. All three of his
catches went for more than twenty yards and he should
have had a touchdown too, he just dropped it. I mean,

(16:23):
that's pretty rare for Chris Godwin too. He's got a
really reliable set of hands. So I saw the same
thing Jake did. And but Mike Evans is practicing again.
I don't know if there's a chance he could be
back this week. But if he is, man, that's that's
really going to complicate these Godwin abuca.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Oh yeah, I'd slide him back stations, he'd be out,
He'd be outside my top twenty, but he wouldn't be
outside my top thirty, maybe even top twenty five, Like
it'd be enough to concern a little bit, but I
wouldn't slid him back egregiously.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Fits, who are you planting your flag on?

Speaker 4 (17:00):
Well, let's go with the slot receiver motif Jacoby Myers,
and he and Trevor Lawrence have clicked pretty instantly. Lawrence
just seems to be good with tight ends and the
slot guys and outside receivers not so much so. In
four games with the Jaguars, Myers has an eighty five
point seven percent catch rate and is averaging eleven point

(17:22):
seven yards per targets. Only played twenty seven snaps in
his first game with Jacksonville, had forty one yards. In
the three games since, he's averaged sixty eight yards, and
he's had a touchdown catch in each of the last
two games. So I am working on the assumption here
that Parker Washington doesn't play. He I don't think practiced
on Wednesday. He left last week's game with a hip injury.

(17:44):
If he plays, I'll probably have to chill out on
Jacoby Myers a bit. But right now I think he's
a really good start this week against the Colts.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Why does youver twenty two in ECR Jake, He's been
inside the top twenty in each of the last two weeks,
getting a touchdown each game.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Where is he for you?

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Is he somebody that you're kind of on board with
Fits on this one or pushing against.

Speaker 2 (18:06):
I am just slightly behind, but that's only because so
my ranks will adjust. I put Drake London in for
the argument like where with Drake London ranks? So I
put him in with that kind of conversation, not that
I necessarily expected. T Higgins is in with that situation.
Marvin Harrison is in, so that right there would slide
them up three spots. And I say that to say,

(18:26):
because I also have Godwin in front of them, I'm
technically behind consensus by three, but I'd be right in
line with it assuming those three guys are out and
then the Godwin situation notwithstanding. So I'm with Fits in this.
And also look at the last two games. Trevor Lawrence
has been playing really well, not necessarily so much in
the completion department, but in the red zone and the
touchdowns that he's getting in this matchup similar to the

(18:47):
past two weeks of what we've see. Oh, by the way,
Jaguars at home against the Colts. I don't know if
everybody's heard undefeated over the last however many games it's been,
so the Jaguars are guaranteed to win. But I'm with
fits is that the connection is definitely more there which
you Myers and the slot work than it is with
Brian Thomas. Can we get Mac Jones back for Brian Thomas?
Like I have this sign football still sitting here and
I don't want to go waste.

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Speaker 1 (20:31):
Guys, let's get into our start hit player Debatesier will start,
as always with the running backs. Traves Etn Verus Kenneth Walker,
two guys who have come up on the show a
bunch this year because they've kind of been consistently ranked
in this like iffy range if if we want to
be starting them or not, So I figured let's put
them head to head against each other here. Miswart's back
over at running back to see where they're currently ranked.

(20:51):
Because I put this together yesterday, Walker's at RB seventeen,
Traves Eten is RB eighteen, so they are still back
to back here in the rankings.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Fits.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
I'll start with you on this one. Would you rather
be starting Travis Etn or Kenneth Walker?

Speaker 4 (21:03):
I would rather start Travis Etn. And I know people
are going to be spooked that Etn completely bricked in
a great matchup against the Titans last week. Twelve carries
twenty eight yards, one catch thirteen yards. It's not like
Bashal Tuton really did that much better against the Titans either,
eight carries for seventeen yards, although he did get into
the end zone. So for whatever reason, the Jags just

(21:24):
couldn't get it done on the ground against the Titans.
But before that bad game, ETN had scored at least
fourteen half point PPR points in four straight games, whereas
Kenneth Walkers hit double digit half point PPR points just
twice since the end of September, two times in the
last eight games. So I think ETN has the higher

(21:47):
ceiling and maybe the higher floor too.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Jake, what do you think we differ on this one?
Which feels good because we're back to the normal. We
were green way too much in the last one, and
it's not a huge gap. I have Walker two spots
in front of them, and I think a lot of
people's concern was that, oh, Sharbonay got all these touches,
and he still gets the goal line touches, but six
of his fourteen were in the fourth quarter, and Walker
didn't touch the ball in the fourth quarter. That was

(22:10):
That game was like out of hand. It was not
a situation where Walker was even relevant for the fourth quarter.
So I'm not that concerned about Scharbonay's touches last week.
It's still Walker in the lead, they're still leaning to
him more. I am still concerned that Sharbona is going
to take the goal line opportunities. But that's the concern
that I have for ETN too, is that Tutan's now
taking the goal line opportunities. So in a toss up
situation like this, slightly trust kennth Walker more than ETN,

(22:34):
only because I think there's a bigger window to ETN
kind of like slipping up in game and then leading
on too and more than there is charbona for Walker,
just because they've kind of made that switch. But it's
close enough they like, just because we disagree, I don't
think it's a huge gap, Like, like I don't think
fits as crazy on this one.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Do you, Jake, disagree with the range that they're in
RB seventeen RB eighteen or do you do you have
them in that same spot just maybe a couple spots off.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
I actually genuinely have seventeen to nineteen to give me
an idea.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Okay, so very very close there too.

Speaker 1 (23:05):
Yeah, I mean I was looking when I was putting
together the names of who to you know, kind of
put head to head here. We've kind of run into
this a few times where you get to that like
mid to eighteens, especially at running back, and it really
does feel like it's pretty obvious the guys ahead of
these names should be ahead of them, and it's pretty
obvious for the most part that the guys behind them
should be behind them. They're kind of in that like

(23:27):
they should be here. You can maybe put them head
to head against each other, but like it would be
I think kind of hard to make an argument for
a lot of names behind them to being ahead of them,
and vice versa for the names ahead of them.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Does that feel.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Similar to you fits where it's almost maybe a little
bit of a tear break here.

Speaker 4 (23:41):
Yeah, I do feel that way when where like there's
a tier break where you're feeling pretty good about the
top fifteen or sixteen guys, mostly good about the next
guys all the way up to about twenty three or
twenty four, and then it gets really iffy after that.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, especially with this, you know, four teams on buy.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
I can't stand that there's four teams on buy and
week fourteen, Like I've it's bad.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
I really hate it how late it is in the season.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
I would love to you know, when I was a
commissioner of the league last year, I wasn't even thinking
about the buys and we fourteen and I put a
double championship week, and in.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
Order to do that, you have to start your playoffs
will be fourteen.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Like, I just wish that was an option on the
table for people, because I just don't like.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
I don't like this current set up with four teams
on by this week.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
I'm sure the NFL has its reasons for having some
weeks be sixteen buys and some weeks be two team
buys and having buys in week fourteen, but I would
love to know what those reasons are.

Speaker 1 (24:38):
Well, I just wish they would finish the buys in
week thirty. Why do they do no buys in week thirteen?
I know I gotta get that thanks Giving, but like,
you just have the teams play like I think you
could just have fewer teams like playing that week before.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
I don't know if it's the same A big deal.
I don't know if anybody knows this, but it's really simple.
Thirty two divided by fours eight and then you could
just do weeks fire through twelve. Don very simple.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yes, I would be super umpy.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
You can even do a one division at a time,
just boom boom, boom boom boom.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yea that I have actually never considered that. That's a
great idea. I would love the idea of just divisions
getting the bye weeks. That's I can't believe I've never
thought of that. That's an awesome idea. I don't know
why they don't do that. They'll never listen to me
on scheduling. So I feel like I complained, we're going
to start.

Speaker 2 (25:18):
At least one show talk a year or two away
from eighteen weeks and two buys per team anyway.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
So yeah, yeah, that's a good point. All right, Let's
go to another running back here, hopping a little further
down in the rankings. How about Devin Neil versus Woody Marks.
A couple of rookies here, a couple of Day three
rookie draft picks here. These guys are both ranked in
the twenties. They are back to back. Woody Marx is
RB twenty two, Devin Neil is RB twenty three. Jake,

(25:44):
I'll start with you on this one. And by the way,
normally I know your guys' rankings ahead of time. I
did have Jake's fits because he was busy adopting the dog.
I wasn't able to get them by the time I
was putting the show sheet together. So it's fun because
I'm actually discovering if you guys are going to agree
or not as we go on the show. But these
two are back to back AECR. Like I said, so, Jake,
who do you prefer Marx O'Neil?

Speaker 2 (26:05):
It's Marx And it's not the fact so much. They're like,
oh my god, Marx has been amazing, but he is
getting fifteen seventeen touches. It's just also turning into sixty
seventy yards not really with a touchdown. Not the best
matchup casees worryso is not as worrisome as it was
last year. But that's where I'm going with this. Who's
was Worriams Worrisom as the Chiefs were last year? The Buccaneers.

(26:26):
I do not want running backs facing the Buccaneers. The
Texans are in that group, but Devin Neil versus Woody Marks.
You flip these matchups and I probably flipped my ranks.
I have a pretty decent gap here. I have Marks
at twenty four and Neil at thirty, and that's without Kamara.
I just I don't want running backs against the Buccaneers.
They've been stomping a lot of people, especially in the
second half of the season, and more talented running backs

(26:47):
than Devin Neil. So that really is what it comes
down to. I don't expect a ton from what he Marx,
He's only at twenty four, But I, like I said,
I really don't want to start Tevianneil against the Buccaneers.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Fitz.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
Is your decision in who you prefer to start here
also largely driven by the matchup.

Speaker 4 (27:02):
Yes, it is, and that's why I've got Devin Neil
ranked higher. And it's great that Jake and I are
dropping the gloves after so much agreement with Seth was
filling in for you his host two weeks ago? Like
that was you know Jake and I Seth brings it out. Yes,
that exactly so. Yeah, it is about the matchup for me,
and it's mostly about the pass catching potential. It gets

(27:24):
weird that Woody Mars has been kind of a non
factor as a pass catcher coming out of college. I
figured he was going to find his niche in the
NFL as a third down back, but over his last
five games, Woody Marks has five catches Buddy's averaged to
Jake's point. Fifteen point four carries a game over that stretch,
even though he's only averaging three point six yards per
carry this season, So Devin Neil hasn't done all that

(27:46):
much as a runner in his two games as a starter,
seven carries for eighteen yards in Week twelve, fourteen carries
for forty seven yards last week against a greatly improved
Dolphins run defense. But Devin Neil has eight catches for
sixty five five yards over his last two weeks, and
both guys have tough run game matchups this week. And
I agree with Jake that the Chiefs run defense has

(28:08):
not been as tough as it's been the last few years,
and the Buccaneers run defense always very tough, and very
tough this year under Todd Balls, But the Buccaneers have
really been giving it up to running backs in the
passing game. They've allowed six hundred and eighty one receiving
yards to running backs. That's one hundred and twenty more
receiving yards than any other team has given up to

(28:29):
running backs. That's why I prefer Devin Neil here. I
think as receiving numbers give them a pretty sturdy floor.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
How much of that.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Chunk was Bejon and Gibbs.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
Though, to be fair, that's true, that's true they but
like I do think, you know, not still a fair point.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
It's still a very fair point.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
Which is the weird thing. I mean, I think the
Buccaneers are giving up like they're in the bottom half
as far as running back fantasy points allowed, despite how
good their run defense actually is. It's all because of
the receiving production they've given.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
On the kind of somewhat came around together at the
end of that worm makes you.

Speaker 4 (29:03):
Feel little better.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
Yes, I do think it's a good point.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Like obviously we haven't seen as much from Devin Neil
this season, Who's a player I liked coming out of
College Wood he marks.

Speaker 3 (29:12):
I do think it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Fits to your point about like not being used in
the passing game. He also only has one touchdown rushing
touchdown since Week four. So, like I mean, if you
told me that from weeks ten to thirteen, a guy
like whatdy Marx was getting fourteen, eighteen, sixteen, and nineteen
carries in those games, I would be like, oh, so
he ended up being like a league winner this year,
like on the Texans getting that kind of workload, I

(29:35):
would have been really excited for where he was going
in drafts, but it's kind of been empty calories because
the passing game work hasn't been there, particularly as of late,
and the goal line work has not been there. So
it's just been a lot of carries out of middling efficiency.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
There's only so far that can take you.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
I mean, for the last five games he's been under
eight Fantasy points and half VPR scoring. That's kind of
in congress with the level of workload we're getting from
him on the ground. So and it's on the Chiefs
are an easy matchup, like, you know, talk about the
matchup side of things. So I'm kind of with you
and being like hesitant on Marx, but I guess I'm
kind of down on both these guys. I don't love
that they're both ranked inside the top twenty four, but

(30:11):
that kind of is what it is. The four teams
on buy and all the injuries you have at this
time of year. Is that would you would say that's fair?
Fits that, like, regardless of putting them head to head,
Like being inside of the top twenty four is maybe
a little higher.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Do you have them both ranked as RB Two's.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
No, I've got Neil at twenty three and Marx at
twenty six.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
Okay, okay, so roughly roughly in the same grade.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
Here, both of these guys are kind of out of
the circle. I've got the two Bears at twenty one
and twenty two, and once you get past them, I
think that the safety is kind of gone.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
I was just gonna say, it feels like a tear
break to me because in ECR Swift and Manongai are
twenty and twenty one, and then Marks are twenty two
and twenty three.

Speaker 3 (30:49):
The gap in my you.

Speaker 1 (30:51):
Know, how I've had my confidence level in starting these
guys between Manongai and Marx just feels very different, even
though you know the Bears are going up and you
know in Green Bay here, all right, let's get to
the wide receivers, Jake, let's get to we know alluded
that this was going to come up a mecha Buka
versus Justin Jefferson, which is a really interesting one. Obviously,
the Vikings have just you know, had this horrible carousel

(31:13):
at quarterback this year, you know, regardless of who has
been there, it just has not really worked outside of
Carson Wentz for a few games. So Justin Jefferson continues
to slide down the weekly rankings each week going in
and people like nobody's like dropped him off a cliff,
But it's been like, little by little, he's gone down
a couple of spots each week as the quarterback situation
has gotten worse or at least not gotten better. So

(31:34):
now we sit here with a Mecca Buke at wide
receiver thirteen and Justin Jefferson at wide receiver fourteen. They
are back to back here just outside the top twelve
of the position. From what we talked about earlier, I
think I know what direction you're going here, Jake, But
who do you like better at Buka or Jefferson.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Well, to be fair, I have both of them way
on their consensus because they like from my argument right here,
Jefferson and Aguka have been the exact same thing, like
since the change at quarterback, since we lost Carson Wentz, which,
by the way, can we just get one arm Carson
Wentz back for this team because then we be excited
about Justin Jefferson play with one arm, dude, Like, who
cares it's your non throwing arm. But the point is, like,

(32:08):
since it's been anybody but wins. Justin Jefferson around this
sacked same time that Buka hit the rookie wall and all.
And I put that up close because that's not what
I'm thinking is happening at Buka. I've been watching all
the games. It really comes down to it, and you
can see it in the numbers two. It's a twenty
percentage point, which means it's a lot more than twenty percentage.
He went from seven percent of his targets being off

(32:29):
target from Baker Mayfield to twenty seven percent of his
targets being off target since that flipp in Week six.
And it's not just that Baker Mayfield's not throwing his way.
It's just he's getting defensive attention. Some of the balls
aren't catchall. He's still getting a lot of targets, but
so is Justin Jefferson. And that's why I put him
in the same bucket. That's why I have him as
low end wide receiver twos. It's because, yeah, all the

(32:51):
targets are great, but all the targets in the world.
I made my joke about Trey Tucker, and everybody wants
Trey Tucker to be a thing. All the targets don't
matter for Jack Didley if you're not catching him, and
I do think Abuka can rebound down the stretch, especially
if Chris Godwin is starting to look at hundred percent.
If Mike Evans comes back, then you just pull off
all this defensive attention that Abuka has rightfully been getting.

(33:13):
But until that click happens, I'm just gonna have him
as a low end wide receiver too. I'm not burying
the guy. I'm still starting him as a wide receiver too.
I'm still starting Jefferson as a wide receiver too. But
I think now with Godwin being one hundred percent, I
would go Godwin then Abuka, which means I slightly, very
closely slightly take Jefferson over at Buka. It's by two spots.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
What do you make, Jake of Jefferson like the target
share going down just in the last couple of weeks,
I mean he was, uh, well one of those.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, Rosbery targeted the other team as much as he
targeted justin Jefferson. Let's be fair.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah, that is fair.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
It's just funny because like you talk about, you know,
he's still getting the target. Since you look at the
last four weeks, it went from twelve to nine to
six to six, the last two weeks being six and six.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
Obviously that's the game was like really weird.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
He didn't get targeted like the whole you know, for
a very long time at the beginning, you know, throughout
the first half of the game. That had to have
been the worst game of his career, right since he
since basically like week three of his rookie season. I
didn't actually go back and look, but I can't imagine
there's been a worse one. Fits when you look at
these two head to head, Like when you think about
a Buka verus Jefferson, are you thinking more about you

(34:23):
like and it sounds like you like Abuca bad. Are
you thinking more that you like Abuka or more that
you dislike Jefferson.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
My thinking about this is sort of quarterback.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
I was gonna say he disliked. I was gonna jump
in and say he dislikes JJ McCarthy, which is rightfully.
So yeah, that's it.

Speaker 4 (34:38):
And I know Abuka has been in a slump, but
it's certainly not for lack of targets. He's had at
least eight targets in six straight games, and there's only
been one time all season where he's seen fewer than
seven targets in a game. I think the slump is
more about Baker Mayfield than Abuka. Like Mayfield has averaged
under six yards per pass attempt over his last six games.
But that said, I betting on Baker Mayfield over JJ

(35:01):
McCarthy every day and twice on Sundays. So and by
the way, about Jake's point with Carson Wentz, like if
the one r men in the Fugitive could commit murder
with just one arm, do you think all we're asking
from Carson Wentz is just complete a few forward passes,
So it seems like not a lot to ask.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
And to go back to this too, like again I
have almost back to back if you want to go
with or Buka, I'm fine with it part of it,
And maybe that's just me trying to predict games, which
is always just risky, But I just think the Buccaneers
can get away with this game, even leaning on Bucky
Irving twenty times, like they don't need to throw a
ton in this one, especially that Baker Mayfield not being
one hundred percent. So that's part of what I'm including

(35:42):
in my ranks with this as well.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
I was going to say, I don't think either of
you mentioned like the specific matchup. Jefferson gets the Commanders,
which you know has said a few games this year
where they have been just absolutely tor few to that most.

Speaker 4 (35:57):
By better quarterbacks than JJ McCarthy.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
That's fair, I mean, that's very it's a very long
list to be a fair face.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yes, yes, it's the stoppable object against the movable, stoppable
force against the movable object.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
By the way, I have.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Seen the fugitive I know you were at I'm gonna
ask me about it, So I have seen it.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
I don't care you get that reference there, I do.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Yeah, it's Tommy Lee Jones.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
Yeah, all right, let's go to Christian Watson versus Led mcconkee.
Watson has been, you know, really good since coming back
to the lineup here fits We have been talking about
it for a couple of weeks. He continues to just
like reinsert himself really really well in this offense. Coming
off of the devastating knee injury last December. He is

(36:45):
now one spot in the rankings behind Lad McConkie. Interestingly,
these are the two guys behind it. Goes Hey Buka
at thirteen Jefferson at fourteen, Lad McConkie at fifteen, Christian
Watson at sixteen, So we're kind of playing in this
same sandbox here in the area of the rankings. So
it fits Christian wants Watson for you or Ladd mccauky
this week.

Speaker 4 (37:03):
I think ECR is too high on both guys. Watson
because he's not a prolific target earner and we could
I think it's better than fifty to fifty. The Packers
get Jayden Reid back this week, which further jeopardizes the
Watson targets, like he does get high value targets, so
I do have him ahead of Ladd McConkie, who have

(37:24):
kind of steadily been sliding down in the rankings. Like
I'm just I'm terrified by the Chargers quarterback situation. We've
got either the one handed man, Justin Herbert's or Trey
Lance in a pretty terrifying matchup against the Eagles. Maybe
not terrifying, but like the Eagles I think have allowed
what the fourth fewest Fantasy points per game to wide receivers.

(37:47):
So for all the problems that team is having, I
don't think past defense is really one of them. I
would rather play Watson than mcconkee.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
For what it's worth on Herbert.

Speaker 1 (37:56):
And it's still Thursday, so with those teams playing on Monday,
we don't really know yet. But doctor Deepak Choona from
Sport MD Analysis, who we do a lot of fun
stuff with here at Fantasy Pros, he tweeted yesterday last
night that you know, it's crazy, but Herbert really could play,
you know, this week, even with the hand surgery.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Like he's not at all ruling him out here.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
You know, he was saying that he would expect more
shotgun in that game and obviously a bigger run game
emphasis in general, just to take some of the workload
off Herbert, but that he's you know, leaving it open
that he could play, by the way, on Christian Watson.
Just a note from Debro here that he tweeted yesterday.
Since week eleven, he's wide receiver twelve and fantasy points
per game, eighty two point four percent, route percentage, twenty

(38:40):
eight point two target percentage, almost sixty yards per game,
two and a half yards per route run, and a
thirty six percent first read share.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
Those are from some notes from Debro there.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
So Jake, when you hear those and thinking about some
of the injury stuff with the Chargers offense. Are you
interested in Watson or would you rather be starting.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Lad one hundred percent, Like I'm just campaigning for Watson
and the Waivers as soon as he's just coming back.
And everage time since actually the show you missed, I
even talked about Watson during that one with Seth And
you know, I would agree with Fitz if it wasn't
this year. Seventeen targets over the last two games for Watson,
and I know Reed could come back, but this is
the one area like I'm gonna actually push It's funny

(39:18):
that at the end I'm actually going to agree with
Fitz to make this clear, but I'm gonna push back
in disagreement. A little bit differently is I do think
Reid coming back can help, but I think Reid helps
what they're lacking right now. They're lacking Tucker Craft. Tucker
Craft was a big part of what was making the
passing game click, and I think Reid coming back is
going to fill the tucker Craft void more so than

(39:39):
threatened Christian Watson. I do think, of course, like seventeen
targets in two games, maybe it's fourteen. I think Christian
Watson is still going to get his So I have
Christian Watson in front of Lad. I also have Trey
Lance in the ranks because I'm banking on that versus
because the easy answer is, if it's Justin Herbert, what
do we do? Most people know I would move up Lad,
but not that much. That's where we are. A complete
agreement is one Watson over Ladd, and then too is

(40:01):
I'm not gonna move him up that much, even with Herbert,
just because you look at the charges of Chargers of late,
even before the injury to Herbert, it's been a little
bit more run heavy. It was actually the run heaviest
they've been the entire year last week. But again hurt
in game by Justin Herbert. But if they get Hampden back,
I know there's a lot of moving pieces with the Chargers,
but if they get Hampden back, why turn into Herbert
or Lance more than you need to? And it comes

(40:23):
down to Lad would be the only wide receiver I
would trust, but it's hard to trust him as a
wide receiver one which I have Christian Wawson pushing the
wide receiver one range. I have him top fifteen, I
have Ladd more down. I'm behind consensus on Lad I
have him down in eighteen nineteen.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Herbert's awesome, but like even if he was fully healthy
and didn't have this hand issue, I'd be a little
nervous about him going. That's what I'm saying with that
offensive line against the Eagles, Like, so you throw in
the injury concern, it just makes it that much more heightened,
and the potential data too.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Arguably pro Bowl tackles that are out. I mean, it's
gonna take.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
A hit against this team.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
The thing I will say is that the Eagles aren't
man heavy, but the man covers that they do run,
they've actually been exploited quite a bit by man capable
wide retire like Jamison Williams. George Pickens is better against
man than he is against zone, more so than Ceedee Lamb,
and he had a better game than Lamb in that one.
So Ladd would be the one that would benefit the

(41:21):
most if Herbert's out there. I'm just pointing that out.
It's a bad matchup, but Ladd would be the one
that could benefit the most from the Chargers wide receivers.
But all our concerns are still valid.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, let's go to some of these rapid fire start decisions.
Will move a little quicker through this section. Running back
one here Kareem Hunt verus Chris Rodriguez. Actually, when I
was putting this together, forgot that we already talking about Rodriguez.
But I do think it's an interesting one. They are
very close in ECR. Who do you guys prefer between
Hunts going up against this really tough Houston defense or

(41:51):
Chris Rodriguez, who we already talked about. Jake, I'll start
with you early.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I said I don't want to start running backs against
the Texans, But I mean, if you're going to tell
me two bad matchups, one offense I trust more than
the other to potentially get a touchdown, that's cream Hunt.
But it's it's narrow, and I want to be surprised
if Pachecko looked somewhat okay in his first game back,
if he steals more this week. So I'm not saying
it's a guarantee, but these are guys that are both
out beside my RB two range fits.

Speaker 4 (42:17):
Yeah, I agree with Jake here. Hunt. We talked about
how TD dependent Chris rodriguezz doesn't offer anything As a
pass catcher, Hunt also somewhat TD dependant. He's had eight
touchdowns this season, five in his last five games, but
he does at least provide some other value. He's had
at least forty rushing yards in five straight games. Hunt
has fourteen catches for one hundred and fourteen yards in

(42:38):
a touchdown. Tough matchups for both, like Jake said, but
like Pacheco might not be that much of a threat
to Hunts like Hunt. I know was Pacheco's first game back,
Hunt out snapped him forty two to twenty out touched
him fifteen to five. I doubt that completely flips, like
maybe it gets a little closer to fifty to fifty,

(42:59):
But I kind of think Hunt is their lead guy.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Now, where would Hunt rank for you guys this week
compared to Marx and Neil, because he's in that same
range in ECR fits.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
I have got Hunt. Let's see, I've got him one
spot ahead of Mars at RB twenty five and two
spots behind Devin Neil.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Jake, somewhere I go, I go, Mark's Hunt, Rodriguez Neil.
I clearly hate Devin Deel.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
Oh yeah, I'm do. I have Rodriguez lowest of these guys, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
I do, he's lowest in ECR, but it's it's very close.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
They're all within about five spots of each other in
that kind of mid mid twenties range.

Speaker 3 (43:41):
All right, let's go to the wide receiver. What I
have here? How about Roma Dunsay or DK Metcalf.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Obviously a Dunze has quite fallen off quite a bit here, Jake,
since he where he was in the first month of
the season going up against a DK Metcalf in a
Steelers offense that has been really bad as of late themselves.
So Odunza or Metcalf Cald, I say neither.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
I mean they're both pushing the bottom of the wide
receiver threes for me at this point, like I have
DK at twenty nine and on Dounsay at thirty one Ondoonsay.
It kind of falls into the book of conversation, but
even worse because the targets aren't there, because the Bears
aren't passing that much. When they do, they have a
litany of options to go to. Everyone from Loveland and

(44:20):
the tight ends all the way up to now. Burden
is more involved, which we hope for, but it's trying
to predict a DJ Moore game versus a Donsay game,
versus a Burden game versus the tight ends and a backfield. Oh,
by the way, they're facing the Packers in Green Bay
in cold weather. Why not just run the ball a
billion times like you have been so I will go
DK barely, but I really don't want to start. I

(44:41):
don't want to start DK Metcalf against the Ravens. But
if he gave me the toss up like a Dunsay
at this point, I give him the slightest of ages.

Speaker 4 (44:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Fits, I'm curious what you say. It's funny.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
I was going back to look Out was like, I
don't remember what Adunda did. I don't even remember the
Bears playing the Packers. How did that first time go?
And I realized they haven't played yet. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
I had Bogman on my podcast. He did the same
thing last night. He was like, what did they do
the first time around? Because we were talking about Burden
and I was like, they haven't played yet.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah, there's a reason I can't remember.

Speaker 1 (45:11):
Yeah, but I feel like the NFL has done this
a lot where they have a lot of like this year,
a lot of these, like the Ravens played the Bengals
like two out of three weeks, or like they're in
the middle of that now, hadn't played the Steelers yet
till be fourteen. Similar here with Bears and Packers they
played to the next three weeks, hadn't played yet getting
to this late in the season. I don't know if
that was intentional by the NFL or just kind of
how it worked out, but we have not seen this

(45:31):
matchup yet. Here fits what do you expect out of
a duneesay in you know, comparison to DK Metcalf.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
Like Jake, I'm sort of not real excited about either
of these guys, but I would play a dune say
like I just had this nagging feeling before the season
that Aaron Rodgers and DK Metcalf would be in oil
and water pairing, and they somehow made it work for
a little while, Like DK had four touchdowns in his
first five games, had some long catch and runs, but
it's just it's not working anymore. Metcalf is finished with

(46:00):
youwer than fifty receiving yards in five straight games, fewer
than sixty receiving yards and seven straight games since the
start of November, DK Metcalf is averaging four point five
yards per target, and things haven't really been that great
for Odonsay either. He had one hundred and fourteen yards
against the Ravens Worms, I'm sure you remember in Week eight.

(46:20):
Since then, only thirteen catches for one hundred and eighty
eight yards and a touchdown, and that's over five games.
Its wide receiver sixty in PPR Fantasy points per game
over that stretch and has a thirty eight point two
percent catch rate in his last five games. But I
don't think o'doonsay is fundamentally mismatched with his quarterback the
way Metcalf is, So I wouldn't be able to surprised

(46:42):
at o'doonsay. Yeah, o'doonsay he could get hot again, but
I would be utterly shocked if Metcalf got hot again
with Aaron Rodgers.

Speaker 1 (46:51):
Let's stick with the Bears for our first flex head
to head here, Kyle Manungai versus A Flowers Mawmanunga didn't
practice on Wednesday with an ankle issue, so keep an
eye on that.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (47:02):
Yeah, I was gonna say it is Wednesday, but it
did happen, So just pay attention there. Obviously, he's coming
off of an excellent game against Philly, Jay Flowers coming
off a real dud. Everybody knows how I feel about Flowers.
Their ranked very close in ECR. Flowers is a few
spots higher. So Zay Flowers, Jake or Kyle mnunguy.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
How you feel? Can we just laugh about that for
a second. Like, if there's one thing we definitely got
right about the Ravens is don't draft day Flowers because
Jay Flowers is say Flowers streaming it from the mountain
top like all, but here's the thing, like you said it, Dodd,
But if you look at the game since week four,
twenty six, thirty two, forty seven, twenty eight, thirty three, thirty,
twenty one, thirty that's just that was our point about
Zay Flowers is he's a wide receiver three and he's

(47:43):
just gonna hover in that range because oh, by the way,
what does he not do? Worm? You know what this is?
Doesn't catch touchdowns? He has one that was back in
week one when he was wide receiver one of all things,
of course, but all that being said, best why I'll
lean to manongay because I do again, I lean to
this being run heavy, it's gonna be soon cold weather,
which usually presents a better opportunity for the run game

(48:03):
because it mutes the passing game, not like if there's
snow out there, but enough to say, like they lean
on the run game for this one, hopefully against the Packers.
That's what they try to do anyway to try and
win this game. So I give Mananguy the slight edge.
Zay Flowers would be as crazy as to say as
the backup running back. You would seem it would be
more of that boomer Bus play. But Jay Flowers is
still boomer Bus to me.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
Like if you want to.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Potentially hopefully he gets a touchdown and finishes a top
fifteen wide receiver, cool, it rarely happens, but I would
give Manong Guy the slide. They're very close to my rankings.
They're within ten spots of each other in the flex rankings.
But I'm gonna go Manong Guy.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
I will give Zay some credit, like should have had
a touchdown on Thursday against and fIF OPI call, Yeah,
like there could have been more here. Uh if he
just got that touchdown then they didn't call the OPI
and everything else is the same though, like he would
have finished in the same range of points that he
has the last five weeks, like ten eight, ten, nine, nine,

(49:00):
Like that's where he would have been with that catch.
And if nothing else changed that it's not that would
have given him.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
One of the worst offensive pass interference calls this year.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
I can't talk about that. That that was just like
utterly painful. But yes, like I said in after Week one,
and I was like, I wouldn't be surprised if he
goes like months before he catches another touchdown and lo
and behold, he has not got a touchdown since Week one.
That was like, by a mile, his best game of
the season. We all know how I feel about that.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
So for fix before, Like, I am a non guy
at forty six flowers at fifty. So like, if you
are smiling because you're going to disagree, I'm not going
to be like, oh my god, you're crazy.

Speaker 4 (49:36):
No I was. I was smiling because you live in
Virginia and you're saying it's going to be super cold
in Green Bay. It's gonna be in the low twenties. Shake,
we just call that out.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
I thought it was supposed to No, I thought game
time was supposed to be single digits because it's the
afternoon game.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
Is that not oh late? It is a late afternoon.
Maybe that's it. Maybe I was looking at an earlier Yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Supposed to be like a high at seventeen.

Speaker 4 (49:57):
So that's that's well, that's that's not that's not the ice.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
That's like a light wind breaker for people.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Who light wind breaker. Get the hell out of here.
That's all right. Hold on, this is weather Bug promotion.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
Weather Bug.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
The no actually now fits. Is supposed to be a
higher twelve at game time. So there you go. That's
even worse.

Speaker 4 (50:15):
That's a little that's a little chilly.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
It is funny, just quickly fits. How you get used
to it, Like I went, this is like in college.
I went skiing up in Quebec on a ski trip
over New Year's and it was like, on average, like
negative eight degrees during our trip. And then like two
weeks later, I went skiing down in like Virginia or
Pennsylvania or somewhere further south, and it was like twelve
degrees and all the people I was with were so
bundled up, and I felt like I was borderline sweating

(50:38):
because I got so used to just how frigid it
was when it was in the negatives that like twenty
degrees warmer, even though it would normally be very cold
to me, did feel warmer. So like there is something too,
like you do get pretty used to it if you're
there long enough, and those conditions, I.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
Mean, you learn those. Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
I was gonna say, I usually ski with a long
sleeve and open jacket, so like it doesn't bother me much.
But single digits is still single digits. If you've ever
played football, that thing turns into a freaking rock. I'm
just saying, Yeah, you.

Speaker 4 (51:08):
Learn the pro tips when you go to to Packers
games in December, Like you're supposed to put newspapers under
your feet and that helps keep your feet warmer, even
if you're wearing like thick boots. Really yeah, that actually
that actually works. I noticed the difference when I I
was at that.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
You remember real quickly when weve on. Remember the ice
Bowl for the Giants where they were throwing snowballs and
knocked out the coach for the Vikings. Remember that I was.
I was at the game before that where there was
ice on the ground. We were legitimately buying hot coco
just a port on the ground to try and melt
the ice because our feet were so cold.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
But anyway, continue, Yeah, so you're gonna hate this warm
I'm taking Zay Flowers here. I know he hasn't scored
in a long time, but you know, he's actually weirdly
given us this safe floor where he uh, he's averaging
five catches and sixty four receiving yards a game. He's
only last week with the six yard game. There was

(52:00):
only the third time this season he's had fewer than
fifty eight receiving yards. And Manongay, it's just we do
these rankings in half point PPR and an average of
five catches a game, that's two and a half PPR
points a game. Manang guy offers really next to nothing
as a pass catcher, but obviously more touchdown equity. He's
got any of the end zone four straight games. I'm

(52:21):
not dissing Manogay. The Bears are second in the league
in rushing yardage since thereby they've averaged one hundred and
seventy nine point six rushing yards a game. So I
just I think Flowers is a little bit safer in
half point PPR in standard scoring at Startmanogay and I
think if you need to land a haymaker, if you're
a big underdog, I'd probably start Managay.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
This is We're gonna talk more about this tomorrow, Fitz,
So I'll save that for now. But I will just say,
like I am also a little bit nervous about just
like Lamar has been bad as of late, and the
Steelers are the team he struggles against most Now it's
the worst Steelers defense than he usually faces, but like
this is the team historically that he is his worst.

Speaker 2 (52:59):
Tame ends he's also one right now, It's clear.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah, I mean I've been getting in a lot of
arguments on Twitter with folks who are trying to traw
me about Lamar and I yeah, the injury. I mean,
he's on the injury report again.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
He's limited. He actually did practice on Wednesday this week
for the first.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Time in like a month, but he was still limited
with all this slower body stuff. Let's go to Zach
Sharbonay or Xavier Worthy if it's I'll start with you
on this one.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
Sharbonay, are Worthy, Sharbone.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
It's just a really tough matchup for Worthy against the Texans.
I mean, they Texans are kind of a slot funnel
as far as their passing game, and I mean that
doesn't leave too much for the outside receivers. And when
in doubt, this is the Bob Harris rule, go with
the running back over the wide receiver in flex decisions,

(53:46):
and I don't see any reason to go against that
role here.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
What do you think, Jake?

Speaker 2 (53:50):
Same thing? Really, what Fitz said too is they've given
up the Saxons three to three wide receivers have hit
one hundred yards against them, and it was Nikuha, Jackson
Smith and Jake by the way, not in the ilk
of those ones. And then Khalil Shakir oh slot by
the way, which actually Nikoa and Jackson, Smith and Jake
would do a lot of so complete agreement on this one.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Let's go to another flex one here, Jake, Jordan Addison
or Zonovan Knight.

Speaker 2 (54:17):
I don't want to touch JJ McCarthy. Like I'm willing
to roll the dice with Justin Jefferson, I'm not willing
to do it with anybody else. And maybe TJ. Hockinson
if is desperate, because all of a sudden he's looking
Hawkinson's way late in the season. But now I'm bam
Knight assuming there's no Trey Benson. If Trey Benson does
come back, but it doesn't seem like it's happening, which
also means he's not going to play this season because

(54:38):
he's only a few days out from you can't come
back period. I'm just gonna go with the running back
as this is the Bob Harris thing again. I know
he's getting touches. I don't know if Jordan Aison gets
one reception. Honestly, right, yes, Addison.

Speaker 1 (54:51):
Interestingly, he is ranked I wanted to ask about him
just because of the Vikings offense. In the state of everything,
he's ranked higher. He is ranked actually right behind Zach Charbay.
I could have put the two of them together based
on ECR and it would have been a reasonable conversation.
That does feel way too high, which is why I
was kind of aiming in a different range here, at
least based on ECR.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
I fits. How do you see it, Addison or Night.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Same way Jake sees it. I mean Bam has had
eleven catches in his last three games. He's actually giving
us some receiving value, and he's had double digit carries
in three of his last four games. I mean Jordan
Adison is a better football player than Bam Knight full stop.
Not close. But I don't want to start JJ McCarthy's
number two receiver, and.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
It might be a number three receiving option. Also, to
give you a bonus, where am I going to jump in?
Because I'm curious, because I threw this out on my
podcast last night, I'm curious what Fitz thinks I made
a case for playing Vile over Jordan Nissen at this point.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Yeah, hold on, I want to see I might actually
have Vala ranked higher. Uh No, I've Addison thirty nine
at VLA forty two.

Speaker 2 (55:56):
But they're that close.

Speaker 4 (55:57):
I think there is a case, no question. Who would
have thought we'd be making that decision? And you know,
back this summer, one of those things you could have imagined, Yeah,
possibly contemplating.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah, one more flex one here Luther Burden or base
Shall Tuton. Couple rookies here again, fits, who do you prefer?

Speaker 4 (56:17):
I'm a Luther Truther man. His recent upticking usage really encouraging.
Had his highest snaphares of the season in his last
two games, only about fifty percent, but still, Burton has
had at least five targets in three straight games at
least four catches or excuse me, at least three catches
and four straight games. He's even had two rushing attempts
the last couple of weeks. This will be the last

(56:39):
game Luther Burton plays at age twenty one. He turns
twenty two on December twelfth. Maybe he can give us
a breakout game before he turns into an old man
and twoton like he had double digit carries once this season.
He said more than thirty rushing yards twice. He said
three catches in his last six games, like he's a handcuff.
There are only trace amounts of and a loan value

(57:00):
here with Fachell touton.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Jake, what do you think?

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah, but he has their goal line option. All that
being said, I am I'm higher on Consassus than both,
and I have him legitimately back to back in the flex.
So I am good with going both, but in so
much in the fact that the Luther Truther I am
one of the same. I had him in my tier
one of rookie wide receivers, and I actually have him
higher than DJ Moore this week. To give you an

(57:24):
idea of how much of a Luther Truther I am
with you, Fitz Wow nice.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I was hoping you were going to say that you
liked to toot and so we could have Truther Burden
versus Bayshell truth in wow Here, all right, everybody.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
That's us for this week.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
We'll see, Yeah, sadly can't go out on that high note.
We've got a couple more names here. Quarterback Lamar Jackson,
who I don't think we've asked about all year, but
people are asking you about, like, at what point is
this thing going to turn around for a guy that
you drafted to be a set it and forget it,
you know, elite quarterback option obviously has not been that
for a month. Dealing with injury stuff. We've talked about
a lot, and you know, now going up against the

(57:59):
Steelers defense that's giving him.

Speaker 3 (58:00):
Trouble in the past.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
He's QB eight. Baker Mayfield is QB nine. So who
do you like better of those two, Jake, Lamar Jackson
or Baker Mayfield.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
I still have, Like I was lower than most last
week on Lamar, I am again, but I still have
him in front of Baker because and the here's how
I'm looking at the chance that he's even close to
one hundred percent and starts running more again, Like the
biggest thing we're losing from Lamar is the running, and
also it's affecting his throws. You see it, he's sailing
passes because the foot isn't one hundred percent, but Baker

(58:29):
Mayfield's not one hundred percent. And Baker Mayfield, if you
go back and watch that Buccaneers game, the few times
he did run, you saw him, especially on that one
play where he dove purposely to the like he kind
of like went down and he was like you could
see he was trying to protect the arm. That's the
concern because you avoid, like Baker finally started running a
little bit more of late, then he gets hurt, so
you have that concern, and it goes back to my

(58:49):
whole argument about this game in general, is that the
Buccaneers can run in this game to win this game,
unless it goes sideways, which you've seen so far because
it's the NFL. But I'm just going to take the
chance that Lamar is anywhere near one hundred percent versus
risking Baker Mayfield in the game where they don't need
him to even throw much, which he hasn't done the past.
Two games.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Lamar Jackson last three games QB twenty nine, QB twenty five,
QB twenty seven fits for me. It's not even so
much about him running, it's about his ability to just
evade pressure in the pocket. He just he can't accelerate
and decelerate the way that he you know, we're used
to watching from him, and this offensive line is not
very good, and it's just really I think messed with

(59:29):
his throwing, like let alone, whatever he's doing on the ground,
you know, obviously, single digit scoring three straight weeks just
not what you've come to expect from a guy of
Lamar Jackson's stature. So for you, are you considering starting
somebody like Baker Mayfield over him? Or are you still
sticking with Lamar?

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Nope, Lamar has the higher profile slump that Baker's been
in a slump too. He has not averaged seven passing
yards per attempt in a game since Week six. Baker
Mayfield He's averaged five point five yards per attempt, which
is completely anemic over his last se starts, and he's
only in one game with multiple touchdown passes over his
last six starts. So Baker Mayfield or Lamar Jackson would

(01:00:08):
not have had a single digit point total last week
if Isaiah likely hadn't screwed up and if he hadn't
had a touchdown pass wiped out by penalty. So like,
we know what Lamar's ceiling looks like, and I think
he could get back to it, even though, yes, historically
is not done well against the Steelers, I'm playing Lamar
over Baker, no question, to your.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
To your point, that game against the Bengals was like
a couple of inches away from being a three hundred
yard passing day with a couple of passing.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Touchdowns PI and hold onto and he has two touchdowns
that game.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Yeah, tight end Aronda Gadston going up against Eagles, very
tough matchup, or Harold Fannon Junior going up against the Titans.
Fits Who do you like better?

Speaker 4 (01:00:53):
I don't like either, guys, spot thanks for giving us
such an unappealing choice. A welcome Gadsden. As of right now,
I've got him tight end ten, But if Justin Herbert
doesn't play, I'm probably going to drop Gadston out of
the top fifteen, and maybe tight end ten is already
too high. I've got Fan in a tight end eleven.
I just I reluctantly moved him ahead of Colston Loveland.

(01:01:13):
But man, Fannin's quarterback is a rookie making his third
NFL start, sad Or Sanders. He's playing a game with
a Vegas total of thirty four. That's on hard rock bat.
I think it's thirty three and a half in some
other spots. And the Titans have actually been pretty stingy
against tight ends this year, ninth fewest points allowed to
the position. I just I don't like the spot for

(01:01:34):
either guy. Gadsden, but just hold your nose and start him.
If Justin Herbert.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Starts, I'm stuck making our tight end pick in the
touchdown calls contest, I wanted to drag you guys down
with a gross tight end question too.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
But don't pick either of these guys.

Speaker 3 (01:01:52):
Will I will not Jake Gadsden or fan In.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
I'm going fan In no matter who the quarterback is.
And it's not like I'm super excited for fann and
tight as eleven, but it just comes down to a
one hundred percent Herbert. We talked about the passing game
concerns earlier with Ladd and everything involved with the Chargers,
and yeah, Sanders is making this third, but Sanders is
showing the things. The good things we knew about him
from coming from college is that he makes some smart

(01:02:15):
throws a high percentage last week, and he looked fan
In's way. He kind of treated Fanning as his number two.
That entire game has kind of grown the stretch, including
the opportunities and routes between Fannin and n Djoku. So
I'm not super excited about him. He's a low end TI,
he's barely a tight end one. But just taking that
over what we've seen real honestly, Gadson has been almost
non existent since his breakout stopped and all these issues

(01:02:38):
started to happen. Very similar target shares, very similar targets
per game for Fannin and Gadson. So I'm just going
to take the questions out of it, and I know
I'm trusting a rookie to take the questions out of it.
But the point being is, I don't have to worry
about Lance, I don't have to worry about a non
healthy Herbert. So I get what I like. It's tight end.
The gas in touchdown is going to throw this out
the window if it happens like Gason catching a touchdown

(01:02:59):
would just mean he finishes his top ten tight end.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Yeah, say goodbye.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
To start sitting dilemmas with Fantasy Pros, start sit Assistant.
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(01:03:25):
We're about to get to our touchdown calls for the week,
but first join our free Touchdown Calls contest in the
Fantasy Pros Discord. Each week, pick four players you think
we'll score with a bonus flex Worth double. Weekly winners
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Play now by going to Fantasypros dot Com slash Chat
and heading to the Touchdown Calls channel. All right, we're

(01:03:45):
under our touchdown calls here, Jake, You're on running back
this week.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Yeah, I'm gonna take what it feels like a little
bit of a layup. I gotta get right after I
think in miss two and a row, including one being
a tight end because of course, but going against what
is hopefully a shootout and what is hopefully one of
the best or what is one of the best running
backs at finding the end zone, I guess a team
that is giving up plenty of running back points, touchdowns, yards,
everything going against the Bengals, I'm taking James Cook to

(01:04:09):
get in the end zone, which, like I said, this
almost feels like a given, especially for the fact that
they just leave up two to one being Henry and
one Keaton Mitchell just last week.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
Fits you're on wide receiver, I'll take Courtland Sutton. He
scored a touchdown against the Commanders last week, just his
second TD in his last eight games. Hasn't had tds
in consecutive games since weeks two and three, but he's
going to do it this week. Courtland Sutton reasserts himself
as the Broncos Alpha receiver and has a big game
against the Raiders.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
So James Cook and Courtland Sutton so far, I'm on
tight end I am going with Mark Andrews, and obviously
I've talked a lot about how I'm nervous about what
Lamar is going to do here, you know, against the
Steelers and during his slump. But Mark Andrews signed a
very surprising to me three year contract extension yesterday that
I like, my job was on the floor when I
saw that and the money they gave him, and like

(01:05:00):
this clearly means I think clearly that they're going to
let Isaiah likely walk and all that. So I think
that there goes would be like a little bit of
maybe extra motivation to get Andrews. I'll touchdown kind of
celebrating this, you know, this extension and showing like, hey,
he's still got it. This is why we brought him
back for three more years. Lamar has not thrown a
touchdown in three straight weeks. He's going to look to
his guy to get one done, and I think this
guy's going to be Mark Andrews. So not that I

(01:05:22):
feel great about it, but James Cook for Jake Cortlin,
Slutton for Fits, Mark Andrews for me, who I don't
think I've.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Picked this year in any of my tight ends.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
So you can dominate your fantasy football league with Fantasy
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Speaker 3 (01:05:45):
We'll wrap things up there.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Best luck everybody getting into those playoff spots here, clinching
up everything and getting ready for a playoff run here
over the next few weeks here, starting off in week fourteen.
So for Jake and Fits, I'm Ryan warmly thanks for
tuning in.

Speaker 3 (01:05:59):
We'll see you next time.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
Thanks for listening to the Fantasy Pros Fantasy Football podcast.
If you love the show, the best freeway to support
us is by leaving a positive review on Apple podcasts
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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Week 14 Lineup Advice: Starts, Sits, Player Debates, and TD Calls (Ep. 1879)