Will Tyreek Hill Have Another Elite Season? | Fantasy Football Draft Court Debates (Ep. 1626) - FantasyPros - Fantasy Football Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome in everybody to Fantasy pros. This is Fantasy Football
Draft Court. Is me Joey P. Joe P's a PA
aka Judge Joey, and I am Judge Joey, an executioner.
Here for our next bit of debates with me, Pat
fitz Morris, Andrew Erickson. These are our lawyers. I'm not
exactly sure they went to law school or pass the

(00:25):
bar exam, but you don't have to do that. I'm
pretty sure I've been at a bar too with Pat
fitz Morris Andrew Erickson in my lifetime, but that'll have
to do today for these debates. We have five players
we're going to debate. Pat fitz Morris is going to
actually it says Derek Brown, so maybe we should fix
that the Pat fitz Morris really quick. Here there it is,
there you go. I don't want to dare insult you,

(00:45):
Pat fitz Morris by having you be called Derek Brown
on this program. Today we are live here on our
YouTube channel. Subscribe to the YouTube channel, drop your comments below.
Hang out with us. We love when you guys hang out.
You're part of the jury today as well. As I
was saying, we have five debates today, and we are
going to go through some players, talk about the players
that Pat likes more than Andrew FITZI will defend himself.

(01:08):
Andrew will be the prosecutor. So without further ado, court
is in session. Let the debates begin. Judge Joey is
ready to preside. Andrew Erickson, let us continue with our
first of many players to discuss today, Alvin Kamara. Now,
the New Orleans Saints are not an offensive ecosystem that
I want to be invested in. However, I find myselfs

(01:31):
on many of our mock draft shows, go ahead and
draft Alvin Kamara many times, and I feel like he's
just sitting there for me in the fourth and fifth round,
and I'm looking for an RB two or even sometimes
just a pairing of running backs because I've gone three
wide receivers in the first three rounds. And I don't
like the Saints offense, but damn it, I enjoy a
good Alvin Kamara and a good Scotch. So let's talk

(01:54):
about Alvin Kamara. You look at last season, obviously a
very productive running back still regardless of the shortcomings of
the Saints, but those shortcomings could be even shorter in
twenty twenty five with Tyler Schuck and Spencer Rattler at QB.
So let's talk about Alvin Kamara, who, by the way,
just in case you're wondering, was RB ten last year
nine hundred and fifty yards, six touchdowns and two receiving

(02:18):
touchdowns as well as sixty eight receptions are five hundred
and forty three yards. All right, let's take a look,
because Andrew Rickson, you have him as RB nineteen, not
near the RB one conversation, Pat has him a bit higher.
Andrew Erickson, why so low on Alvin Kamara?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Well, I'm not necessarily sure. I'm so low on him.
I kind of took him and described the way that
you've been drafting him. Right, You said, Hey, I'm looking
for my RB two that I need to fill this void.
Because that's what I think Alvin Kamara is. When you
look at projections, he projects really well. He's more in
that RB thirteen, RB sixteen range. And admittedly, I think
that the strongest case for Kamara is in the full

(02:58):
PPR settings, where you do I feel pretty good about
taking him as your RB two because that's been how
he's been so successful as a fantasy running back. Is
through the pass catching because the rushing efficiency has fallen
off a cliff like that. Like that, I think is
pretty shot at this point. He's going to be thirty
years old this season. And for me, the concern with
Kamara comes down to what's the upside here?

Speaker 3 (03:19):
Right? What are we shooting for?

Speaker 2 (03:21):
In you kind of laid out the case, where are
we really excited about this Saints offense with Tyler Shuck.
I don't know if that's gonna be fits his defense here.
It's gonna be like I'm the Tyler Shuck believer. I
think Shuck's gonna be the guy, and maybe he can
make me a believer as well, But I'm not convinced.
And we look at Kamara the last three seasons, He's
had four touchdowns, six touchdowns and eight touchdowns. Eight is

(03:42):
what he had last year. But if he falls more
into that four touchdown category, I don't know if he's
going to be a top twenty running back. The last
two seasons, you look at running backs who have scored
five or fewer touchdowns. There have been zero running backs
under five touchdowns or at five that have been top
twenty and a half PPR.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
So you look at the Saints.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
They're thirty first and protected points based on the Vegas
win implied odds. That's tied with the New York Giants
in terms of total touchdowns expected from this Saints offense.
So I understand the play on Kamara as a floor. Hey,
I really need an RB two. He fell in my draft.
It's full PPR. Okay, then I can make the case
for that. But I'm not going into my draft being like,

(04:23):
I gotta get Alvin Kamara because at the end of
the season, are you gonna regret not drafting a Saints player?
I don't think so. So I'm interested to hear what
fitzas to say about that.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
I don't think there's gonna be a lot of regrets
from people saying, oh, I wish I had more Rashid
Shahied shares in twenty twenty five. I don't think that's
gonna happen. But Alvin Kamara is a little different story here.
So pe Fitz Morris, clearly, the Saints are not looking good.
They are looking closer to having the number one overall
pick in the draft than they are necessarily look like

(04:54):
they're going to be a playoff team. I think that
is for certain. However, Andrew does make some good arguments
here about the possibility the inefficiency of this offense, the
quarterback play not being able to sustain what you know,
you would hope that they even had last year with
the different quarterbacks that they use with Alvin kamaras So,
your RB ranking is RB thirteen, which feels pretty good

(05:17):
to me, FITZI, but you do have to, you know,
here on Fantasy Corps justify your rankings. It's interesting because
in between is where the ECR is at sixteen. You
are at thirteen, Erickson's at nineteen, So ECR splitting the difference.
Why are you actually ahead of ECR? Why should I
buy into that narrative? When looking at the twenty twenty

(05:38):
five version of Alvin Kamara, pad.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Well, your honor, you mentioned that Kamara was RB ten
last year, but he was actually RB six in half
point PPR Fantasy scoring per game. I believe last year.
I think it can continue to be a top twelve
or at least a top fifteen running back. And I
know some people would contend that the inexperience of the
Saints quarterback is a reason to fade Alvin Kamara in

(06:02):
twenty twenty five. I would contend that the inexperience of
Tyler Shuck and Spencer Ratler is a reasona like Alvin
Kamara for twenty twenty five. These inexperienced quarterbacks are going
to be very eager to check down to Kamara if
they don't see anything they like downfield a few seconds
after the snap, and Alvin Kamara remains one of the
very best pass catching running backs in the league. I

(06:25):
suspect that with young quarterbacks who simply won't be able
to do a lot of business downfield, Kamara's pass catching
role is going to be as prominent as ever this season.
He had more than eighty receptions in each of his
first four seasons in the NFL, hasn't had more than
seventy five in any of his last four seasons. I
think he could get back over eighty catches this year.

(06:45):
And while Kamara's never had a one thousand yard rushing season,
and while the prosecution contends that his rushing efficiency has collapsed,
he had nine hundred and fifty rushing yards last year
in just fourteen games. He was pacing for his first
one thousand yard season, and since his second NFL season
in twenty eighteen. Kamara's never averaged fewer than fifty three

(07:08):
rushing yards per game. By no means is he any
sort of zero in the running game. Should he stay
healthy this season, he should once again give you eight
or nine hundred yards rushing. So I think the RB
three ranking of Kamara is more than justified.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yes, it's the all purpose yards, the full point PPR
allure of Alvin Kamara two. When you look at the
number of receptions he's had here, I think that bump
up to sixty eight is interesting. So we are going
to for now shelves debate, send it to you our
YouTube audience here and appollent that you decide. Are you
for Andrew Erickson at RB nineteen, Alvin Kamara or Fitzi's

(07:46):
RB thirteen rankings. So let's continue the deliberation here as
we go and realize too, age does matter here. Let's
keep talking it out. He is thirty years old, Pat,
So does that bother you because at the end of
the day, we do have those age concerns when it
comes to running backs, when they start to reach that
magical peak of thirty. I know Andrew Erickson his productivity

(08:10):
took a downturn when he turned thirty last year. It's
an all downhill from there, but will be the same
for Alvin Kamara.

Speaker 4 (08:18):
I hate to answer a question with a question, your honor,
but are you fading Derrick Henry this year? Uh?

Speaker 1 (08:25):
How dare you?

Speaker 3 (08:26):
How good is Jack?

Speaker 1 (08:27):
I will find you in contempt different you dared bleta?
How can we even discuss fading? You don't even say
those words fading Derrick Henry in my courtroom. You are
out of line even for suggesting that. Look at him,
Look at how beautiful he is. Look at he's the
perfect running back, size, power speed. Of course, this is
his Tennessee Titans days. But look at Derrick Henry with

(08:48):
his little braided ponytail out there. No, I am not
fading him, but a very different physical human specimen Andrew Erickson.
I'll put the age requirement to you. Thirty years old,
al Kamara? Is that another thing that should be worrying
us about him in twenty twenty five? Or because he
is the best guy they got and they don't have
a lot behind you know, under center? Is it really

(09:11):
just Alvin Kamara season for one more glorious year in
twenty five?

Speaker 2 (09:15):
I mean, I think the age matters from a point
of efficiency, Right, he can put up compiling stats if
it is just hey, he's just catching up a bunch
of dump off passes from the inexperienced quarterbacks that are
under center. But that can only get you so far.
I feel like that does cap the ceiling a little bit.
That's why I think that he's a floor play in PPR,
like he's an RB two floor play, because I don't
think the ceiling is there based on his age and

(09:37):
based on the ecosystem that I'm not excited about.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
All Right, the jury has deliberated, The jury has made
a decision, and I will honor that decision. Sixty percent
of the audience broke a certain way, forty percent broke
the other, and the sixty percent majority rule in favor
of drafting Alvin Kamara. You will be drafting Alvin com
in twenty twenty five. Pat Fitzmorris wins this first battle here,

(10:04):
and again, it's not all about battles. Sometimes it's also
about having fun, and sometimes it's even about giving away
free stuff. And we've got some amazing things here at
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(10:28):
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(10:49):
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hanging out with us and talking ball. All right, So
round one goes to Pat fitz Morris here. It's good
to uh to see that Andrew Erickson's got some fight
left in him, though I'm pretty sure of that. Andrew Erickson.

(11:09):
Are you on location today or is this the new
place you're broadcasting from? What's happening here? What do you
mean well, you know, like in my cousin Vinny, the
judge says, we're a suit to my courtroom. Pat fitz Morris,
as a lovely background, You're just looks like you're broadcasting
from the jail cell today. Now, I did put you
in contempt last time, but I thought I posted bail
for you and you got out last time.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
That is correct.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I do appreciate that. I do appreciate the bail money. No,
this is yeah, this is my new place. This is
where I'm going to be. This is a new home
base for me. I mean, I've been banished to the basement,
but the internet works down here because I've got a
fifty foot ethernet cord and yeah, it's working out great.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Please nobody needs to know the size of your ethernet cord.
Let's take Alex's question here, I pros. How do you
feel about Noel? Shouldn't he be stepping into the tank
Dell role? Pat fitz Morris, Higgins Kirk Noel a lot
of new pieces joining Nico Collins. What do you think
about Noel's fantasy value in twenty five?

Speaker 4 (12:06):
I don't know if he's going to be able to
beat out Christian Kirk. I like Jalen Knowle as a prospect.
I just I don't know if he's the odd man
out when they go to a three receiver set. It's
possible it's gonna be Nico, Kirk and Higgins.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Hmm, yeah, I tend to agree, Erickson. Is that three
for three for you? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (12:25):
I agree that that's how it's going to open. But
I just don't think Christian Kirk is built for the
long game. I mean, he's been on injured preserve the
last two seasons at the end of the year, so
I think I mean, I think Noel is a really
talented guy. I'm really shocked that he lasted till the
third round of the NFL Draft. And look, I get
a healthy Kirk is going to get the Hey, he's

(12:46):
a veteran, he's experienced. We're gonna put him in the
starting lineup. But if Noel makes the most of his
opportunities when he gets whether it's spelling one of those
other three guys at times, and he's making big plays,
he may have a need an injury to take over
that thought role in the second half of the season.
So I like him long term a lot, especially at
the end of the year.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
I find myself this is not something I do normally,
but because they're all cheap, I find myself getting multiple
Texans wide receivers late in drafts of Kirk and Higgins,
Higgins and Noel, Noel and Kirk just different combinations because
I do feel over time they will have different usage.
Like I feel like Kirk for that first six weeks
will be good, and then maybe Jaden Higgins for that
last six weeks will be the guy that I want.

(13:24):
Maybe who knows what happens in between? Quick one here
too from Io who's super chat us. We appreciate you.
Who to go for in a twelve man league eleven
spot half PPR half PPR look, I would consider Genty
and Derek Henry and then the best wide receiver on
the return Andrew Erickson. What do you want to do
in that half PPR at eleven?

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Drake London, Brian Thomas Junior, Hash and Genty. Those are
kind of the guys I'm circling. When I'm looking at
picking at the turn. I like the running back receiver
start the most because you can get I think contenders
to finish both RB one and wide receiver one.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
When you're picking that late.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
All right, Pat, you agreed, disagree?

Speaker 4 (14:01):
Sweet spot for wide receiver if you have to start
three of them, if you only have to start two
wide receivers every week, then I think you can introduce
Christian McCaffrey, Derek Henry, Ashton genty into the next All.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Right, that's enough questions for now. Let's get back to
why we're really here, which is fantasy court. So the
next person we're going to debate is a running back
who is now on the Cowboys, and he's got some
company there, but I'm always really sure if he's any
good the company around him is any good. He's the
RB thirty four currently in the EASTCR but Pat Fitzmorris

(14:34):
has him more aggressively at RB thirty and Andrew Erickson
he does not care for him at RB thirty seven.
His name is Javonte Williams. Get on the stand, Javonte.
It's time to take you to court. Let's go, Javonte Williams.
Here we go, Andrew Erickson, make the case against the
ECR and for your ranking of Javonte Williams. A backfield

(14:55):
that's wide open, but you don't feel he can take
advantage of that well.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
I mean, he is my highest rank Dallas Cowboys running back.
So if you're making me pick someone that I think
could fall into winning this back, it still will be Javante.
I guess I'm just less confident about that compared to
ECR and compared to Fits, because I mean, Javonta's just
been terrible, right, He's been absolutely atrocious since that devastating
knee injury that he suffered a couple of years ago,

(15:20):
and we're all hoping that, okay, maybe he can get
back to it. And you know, he's two years now
removed from it. He's still a relatively young running back
at age twenty five, so you're thinking, Okay, maybe there
is a path where he can have a JK. Dobbins
type of resurgence in Dallas. And I do think that
is it within the range of outcomes. But I also
think that Dallas is not necessarily prioritizing their running backs.

(15:41):
I think that they really are taking it to heart
of the running backs don't matter ever since they overpaid
Ezekiel Elliott, and just every year they're thinking, okay, how
can we just scrap together some type of run game
with all these running back cast offs. I mean, look,
Jamonte seems like he's in the driver's sept to BBRB one,
But Miles Sanders has also been reported to be making
first team reps. And you know, he looked decent enough

(16:03):
in his last game with Carolina Panthers. Again, he looked
still a lot better than Javonte did the entire season
in Denver in that one game for the Carolina Panthers.
So I don't think it's all but said in terms
of who is the RB one in this offense. I
think that Dallas is still trying to figure that out.
And if Davonte isn't back to his former self, then
he's a wasted pick because he's not gonna be able

(16:23):
to do anything. I think in this offense again, he'll
start the year, you know, operating and pass protection, catcher
passes out of the backfield. But I just don't want
to be overly confident that, oh, he is back to
his form, because he's saying that he feels a lot better.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
I like when he's cheap as an option, like last
year JK.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Dobbins, he was going outside the top forty running backs
and I was all over that because I thought that Okay,
all of the injury downside is baked in here, But
up at RB thirty, I mean there's a lot of
good players still in that range where they're a dual
threat quarterback. I mean, justin Fields is going in that
range at RB three. There's a lot of breakout wide
receivers in that range. So where I don't sory hate

(17:00):
the bet on Javonte the player, it's where he gets
up in terms of pricing with all the injury risk
baked in or maybe not baked in as much as
where I get a little hesitant.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
So that's my take on Javonte.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Some interesting points there for manju Erics, and I like
the fact that it's not just the fact that he's
going late, it's also where he's going and who you're
passing up to draft him now, Pat fitz Morris. It's
also a very good year for rookie running backs. This
rookie class we like a lot. That's another reason maybe
why you know, perhaps the Javonte Williams investment isn't the
best because some of those young guys like Caleb Johnson

(17:33):
floating around there, Lake Camp Scataboo floating around there late
in a similar range. You also got some veterans there
like Naji Harris in that grouping, as well as some
upstart second year guys like Taj Spears. So there's a
lot of guys in this RB range that might have
a little bit more appeal. But regardless, you seem to

(17:54):
turn your head ignore this fact, Pat fitz Morris, and
you're aggressively ranking. And I say aggressively because I'm the judge.
I can say what I want aggressively ranking Javonte Williams
at RB thirty. So let's talk about it. What's that justification?
I know Jayden Blue is not endearing himself to the
coaching staff, but is that enough for Javonte Williams to
just default run away with this job?

Speaker 4 (18:16):
At RB thirty, Javonte Williams maybe the last lead back
you can get in your draft, and I do think
he is going to be the lead back. Javonte Williams
has said he is just starting to feel one hundred
percent healthy after that devastating knee injury in twenty twenty
two when he tours ACL and LCL. If he is

(18:37):
fully healthy and successfully fends off all challengers in the
Dallas backfield, it's possible Williams could dramatically outperform his low
ADP of RB thirty nine. And let's look at that competition.
In the Dallas backfield. There is rookie Jayden Blue, who
you as you mentioned your honor, has reportedly annoyed his

(18:59):
new employee with his work habits that are said to
be less than exemplary. There's Miles Sanders, who over the
last two years has averaged three point five yards per
carry and four point three yards per target and has
scored four touchdowns in twenty seven games. And there is
late seventh round pick Phil Maffa who has four point six.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
To one speed.

Speaker 4 (19:20):
And Javonte Williams has ninety nine catches over the last
two seasons and has caught more than forty passes in
every season except for the one where he wrecked his
knee in Week four. And if Javonte Williams is fully
healthy and goes back to being the same powerful, tackle
breaking runner he was as a rookie in twenty twenty one,
when fantasy managers across the land were clamoring for the

(19:43):
Broncos to bench Melvin Gordon and give Javonte Williams more carries, well,
then Javonte Williams is going to look like a bargain
even where I have him ranked as a mid range RB.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Three interesting points of view here on both sides, one
pro Javante, one anti Javonte. But you decide that's the
beauty of joining us live. You are the jury. So
I'm going to put the Javonte Williams to draft or
not to draft at that ADP that we're looking at again,
Fitzi's got him ranked at RB thirty, Ericson at thirty seven,

(20:14):
the ECR once again in between at thirty four. So
are we drafting him or are we not drafting him?
So you decide. The poll is up. Let's see what
you got there, YouTube fam. In the meantime, let's continue
to discuss Javonte Williams because fits a lot of the
arguments here. I feel like for you are a matter
of have you seen the guys he's competing against, and

(20:35):
that's fair, it's not great. But isn't there a world
where none of these guys are great, where they're all
just kind of miserable and none of them really impact
us in fantasy at all? Or do you think that
somebody in this Dallas backfield just has to do it
by default.

Speaker 4 (20:51):
No, there is a scenario where none of these guys
tops five hundred rushing yards and maybe we even see
some film off getting time, but that would depend on
I think for that to happen, Javonte Williams would have
to be just a physically different guy now post knee
injury than he was before the knee injury. But if

(21:13):
we leave open a window of optimism that he could
be back to where he was when he came into
the league as a rookie and was routinely taking tacklers
for free pony rides on his back, then I think
he runs away.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
With the job. Pony rides are fun, There's no denying that.
Andrew Erickson, Derek Brown makes a point then rarely does
this happen, But he's made a point here, which is
that last year JK. Dobbins was a guy drafted as
an RB three who became an RB two. Could that
same path be forward for Javonte Williams considering he is

(21:49):
more removed from the knee surgery that really concerned you,
which is valid granted, but we also know the further
we get removed from some of these knee surgeries, the
better the performance is from some of these running backs.
Is that enter into psyche at all, my friend?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
I think so. I mean, I think that the comp
to JK. Dobbins is is a solid one. But I
think Dobbins was going even later. I mean a lot
of people did not want to drop Dobbins at all
because he had just missed so many games. At least
Javonte has been playing, just it seems like he's not
really been at one hundred percent in terms of him
feeling like himself after the death and devastating injury. But

(22:23):
at the same time, there's a laundry list of running
backs that were never the same again, like you said,
when they get severed of these devastating knee injuries and
they never get back that explosive to that juice, that
tackle breaking ability that we were so high on earlier
in their careers. And I think the thing with Javonte too,
is he's always been a committee back. Getting back to

(22:44):
his North Carolina college days, right where he was putting time.
I believe it was with Michael Carter. So in the NFL,
it was Melvin Gordon, it was he was in a
time share with So even in Dallas, if it is
Javante as the one A, is there someone else that's
still involved? I mean Jayden Blue again, not a workhorse
back by any means, but someone that can still make

(23:05):
plays in the passing game out of the backfield catching passes. Okay,
he has a lot of juice. So is he more
a compliment to Javonte? Again, it's really about carving out
those high value opportunities. So if Javonte is working on
passing downs, which makes sense, that's something that he did
in Denver, and who is the red zone back? I
think that's really the key. The thing with Davonte with
me is if he was going higher, you know, let's
say he was like a top twenty four running back,

(23:26):
Let's say we were more confident of him being the
RB one when he also looked exactly like a dead
zone running back. Where we're vaulting him up the rankings
because of projected volume even though he's been really inefficient,
And the argument is there's no one else to takeaway
touches and what always happens, Oh, they always find a
way to get someone else touches in that backfield. So
that's what just why I try to be a little
price more price sensitive to Javante, just because the there's

(23:50):
a really risky floor here if he gets too expensive.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
The jury has returned from being a sequestered and they
have an answer on the Javante Williams question. Guilty or
not GEI draft or not to draft, that is the question,
and fifty nine percent are in favor of drafting Javonte
Williams at his current ADP. Perhaps he is a red
zone back of worth. Perhaps he's a dead zone back,

(24:17):
but he's a dead zone back going later than the
other dead zone running back. So the verdict is in
Javonte Williams will be drafted this year in twenty twenty five.
I don't know about me. I'm with you Andrew ericson
off the record, but I have to go along with
the people. Unfortunately, the people run this joint around here,

(24:37):
at least for today. At least for today. All right,
continue to drop your comments below. We love hearing from
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(25:00):
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(25:22):
we are the People show. So it's not just YouTube,
it's also Twitch. It's another great way to interact with us,
get your questions answered, and hang out and talk football
this season again Twitch dot Come, slash Fantasy Pros. That's
the place to be. Switch twitch dot tv. Pardon me,
slash Fantasy Pros. Sorry, there's a lot of things to
remember here. And this wig is hot, very hot, extremely uncomfortable.

(25:46):
It's July, and I'm wearing this wig because I'm an
artist at the end of the day. That's why. Because
this is my art and this is what I do
for you, the people. All right, let us continue to
help the people here and switch gears no more. I'm
sick and tired of that. Judge Joey wants to talk
about a wide receiver, and not just any wide receiver.
I want to talk about a sexy wide receiver. I

(26:07):
want to talk about a guy who was going potentially
number one overall last year, but not this year. It
was a disappointing year for Tyreek Hill. Tyreek Hill actually
was in my courtroom for other reasons at different times,
but today he is here for one reason only, because
we're trying to decide whether or not to draft him. Now,
the consensus ranking of Tyreek Hill is wide receiver fourteen.

(26:29):
Pat Fitzmorris is pretty close to that wide receiver sixteen.
Then all the way somewhere I don't know, in the
southern district of New York, somewhere very far from New Jersey,
here is Andrew Erickson's ranking of wide receiver twenty three.
Twenty three. That's pretty low here for Tyreek Hill, a
guy who is one people many a fantasy league. Now.

(26:51):
I understand he's thirty one years old. I understand last
year there were some disappointments. I understand the Dolphins are falling.
Part of the seams. Potentially he had eighty one just
nine hundred and fifty nine yards just six touches. He's
only a year removed from back to back seventeen hundred
yard seasons with twenty combined touchdowns over that period, so

(27:12):
a lot of fantasy productivity down years happened. He has
been a top six wide receiver since the twenty twenty season. So,
Andrew Erickson, why are we so aggressively negative on Tyreek
Hill in twenty twenty five? Make your case Tyreek Hill
is on the stand.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
Well, I think the first thing with tyrerak kill as
you point out about last year being a down year,
and I know that we can point a lot of
that to his quarterback not being available for a lot
of that season, But even when Tua was healthy last year,
Tyrek Hill was the wide receiver eighteen in terms of
points per game. He saw his yards per out run
plummeted nearly half. It was down to one point seventy five.

(27:52):
And I think the most glaring thing for me when
it comes to Tyrek Hill is yards out to the catch.
He posted one of his worst metrics in terms of
yards to the catch per reception last year and that
has nothing new with the quarterback. The quarterback did his job,
he got the ball to Tyry Kill, and it's Tyrey
Kill's job to then make guys miss and create yards
after the catch, which he's always done throughout his NFL career,

(28:12):
but not last season, because I think that's a clear
red flag of Hey, this is a older player, he's
going to be thirty one, who's relied on speed to
get separation, and you're starting to see.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
It kind of dwindle.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Guys don't get better as they get older, especially at
the receiver position.

Speaker 3 (28:28):
We see this all the time.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
I think that Tyreek Kill is past his prime and
that's why I have him ranked so lowly because I
don't believe that it's going to just get bounced back
and get better. We're just going to turn back the
clock because that hasn't really happened with a lot of
these receivers, especially the ones that are the same archetype
as Tyry Kill that are more reliant on that speed.
So I'm much more bullish on Jalen Waddell being the

(28:50):
more focal point of this offense. He is younger, he's
only twenty six, and I think that he's also shown
an elite ceiling attached to Totanue, Loyola and Mike McDaniel
in this Miami Dolphins offense. So and then you layer
in the outburst in week eighteen or I mean.

Speaker 3 (29:05):
He quit on his team.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
So how committed is the action to the Miami Dolphins
if they start zero and two? Is he going to
be on the sidelines again complaining? So that's another fact
that that's not even necessarily football related, but off the field,
like how dedicated is he to this team? And this season?
I know that a lot of things I've been reading
about this year, specifically with Wattle versus Hill, like Wattle's
taking on a bigger leadership role in this offense this year,

(29:26):
so I'm expecting him to really step up and be
a big part along with von A chan horas Tyreek
Hill maybe isn't as as emphasized nearly as much. And
even when you look at some of that ESPN release,
the report of they pull all of these anonymous scouts
and executives about who are the top receivers in the game,
and Tyrek Hill ranked number third in that list, So
I thought that was kind of interesting.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
But then when you read the profile.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
It's yeah, because of all the attention that he grabs
some defenses, not the fact that he is the offensive
player that people are afraid of. It's yes, he commands
attention from defenses, but it's allowing other players in the
offense to get open and to be productive like we
saw last year when the two most productive players on
the Dolphins were Jonas Smith and Devon a Chan So
for those reasons, especially where tyre Kill's going. So I'm

(30:09):
gonna take Terry Kill over Garrett Wilson, who just got
paid to be one of the as one of the
best receivers in the NFL. George Kittle again also older,
but he plays tight end and was coming off leaving
the NFL in points per game at tight end. Or
Davonte Adams again another older receiver, but he's shown no
signs of decline last season. I'm going to take all
those guys over Tyreek Kill. So I can't get on

(30:30):
the price of that high end wide receiver two low
and wide receiver one for Tyreek Hill.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Now, one thing that does get better with age, Pat
fitz Morris. Definitely one of those things. Now, Pat fitz Morris,
let's talk about it. Here, let's talk about Tyreek Kill
because Andrew Ericson is suggesting not only is he not
Garrett Wilson or Davonte Adams range worthy, but he is
more Zay Flowers worthy by his ranking. And now that
is a tough road for me to drive down in

(30:55):
the middle of the night with no headlights. I can't
see already. I have to wear glasses at night. It's
a very difficult thing to find Tyreek Hill in that range.
He's never gonna go in that range, realistically. We all
know that because he's a bigger name guy. The question
is are his better days behind him? You say not
so fast. Let's tell everybody why you should still consider

(31:15):
Tyreek Hill your honor.

Speaker 4 (31:18):
Tyreek Hill had back to back one hundred and nineteen
catch seventeen hundred yard seasons in twenty twenty two and
twenty twenty three. Last year, in a bad season, and
I would ask the courts stenographer to let the record
show that I'm using Eric.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Let the record show air quotes were used. Thank you,
You may proceed in this record shown.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
In this bad season, tyreek Hill still had eighty one
catches for nine hundred and fifty nine yards and six touchdowns.
There were undeniable headwinds for Tyreek. He dealt with a
wrist injury, he lost starting quarterback to a tongue of
Iloa to a concussion, and the Miami offense completely ran
aground in the several games that have missed and upon

(32:01):
to his return, the Dolphins went to a short passing
attack to protect their quarterback and to minimize what they
were asking from a bad offensive line. And yet, despite
all of these headwinds, Hill still provided us with wide
receiver two numbers. Now tight end John new Smith is gone,
which should further consolidate targets in the Miami offense amongst Hill,

(32:25):
Jalen Waddle, Devon h Chan John who had eighty eight
catches last year. Tua averaged a career low five point
seven intended air yards per attempt last season. In twenty
twenty three was at seven point seven intended air yards
per attempt. In twenty twenty two, he was at nine
point five. One would have to imagine that Dolphins head

(32:47):
coach Mike McDaniel will try to restore the principle of
verticality in on the Miami passing game this year. Tyreek
Hill recently ran the one hundred yard dash in just
a hair over ten seconds flat. He is still blazing fast.
He's still the cheetah. He is by no means washed
up at age thirty one, as the prosecution would try
to have you believe, and your honor, let the record

(33:08):
show that the defense is still below consensus with its
wide receiver sixteen ranking for mister Hill. The prosecution's ranking
for mister Hill is to use a complex legal phrase,
cuckoo for cocoa puffs.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
All right, I will allow that language in the courtroom
Justice one time, because I know it took a lot
for you, with your Midwestern sensibilities, to use that sort
of language in my courtroom, so I will allow it.
But you're on thin ice, Fitz Morris, watch your ass,
all right, Just be careful what comes out of your
mouth next. So we are gonna put it to you

(33:44):
the jury. Now keep in mind the current ADP is
where neither of these two bozos are. We're looking at
wide receiver fourteen for Tyreek Hill. However, Fitzi's got him
at sixteen, just below that. Andrew Erickson saying he is
closer to a wide receiver three with his ranking at
wide receiver twenty three. We're talking about the range of

(34:05):
DeVonta Smith, Zay Flowers, Jamison Williams for the once great
Tyreek Keel Could he be great again? We're gonna put
that to you the jury vote right now. We want
to hear from you, and yes, fits is slaying it.
But I'm telling you the naughty words, be careful, Be careful.
Andrew Erickson, do you think this is you know, as
you continue to listen to some of these other arguments here,

(34:27):
is there any wiggle room for you to change any
opinion of Tyreek kill Er. You don't see him as
potentially a league winner at the discount you're getting him
because he's only one year removed from being the wide
receiver one overall. I think that's something that everybody needs
to recall. Whether or not you think he's a player
that can repeat wide receiver one overall, it's another thing

(34:48):
to go and make him from the number one wide
receiver overall to not even being a wide receiver one
to almost being a wide receiver three. Is that too
much of a precipitous fall in your rankings?

Speaker 2 (35:00):
I mean, I don't think so. I think that when
you look at Terry Kill. Weren't we talking about Maybe
it was on one of the shows on the betting
side of things.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
But what if Torry Hill gets traded?

Speaker 2 (35:11):
I mean that seemed like it was a little legitimate possibility,
and what happens to his fantasy value? Then maybe it's
a good place that he goes to. Maybe he goes
back to Kansas City. You know they don't have Rashie Rice.
He gets suspended, So how does that play a factor
in it? Because when you're you're trying to capture the
range of outcomes for Tyry Kill. Yeah, I understand if
he just shows exactly what he did a couple of
years ago, yes you're getting him at a discount, But

(35:32):
what if things just totally bought him out. I mean
this has happened before with some of these older receivers.
Cooper Cup, everything was great, he was unstoppable, and then
it wasn't because he got banged up and he showed
signed to decline. Michael Thomas, same thing. So that's where
I get concerned, where, yeah, you look at what they've
done and you think, man, I'm ranking this player too low,
and maybe I could move tyre Kill up a little bit.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
But I'm just mind.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Ranking is just sugesting to those that follow my ranks
that I don't want you to draft tyry Kill. I
would rather you wait to draft ja I think that
he's a way better value. So you talk about Hill
as a value, Yeah, he's discounted from last year, But
I still think there's the floor I don't think is existent.
I think it's a really fragile floor with tyreek Kill
because if he falls out of favor with this Dolphins offense,
what does that look like? What happens then? And that's

(36:16):
where I get scary about making the investment of Tyrek Kill,
who still costs what You're still drafting them in round
two or round three. That's still a lot of draft capital.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Pat there's not a lot of landing spots for a
trade for Tyreek Kill. If that were to happen. Arizona
Cardinals perhaps could be one, unless you want to get
traded to the Tennessee Titans. Going to make a big
move for a wide receiver. I don't really see that happening.
Jacksonville already filled their wide receiver gap there. You know,
the Raiders could always add a bad boy, and that's

(36:44):
typically what the Raiders like to do, and Pete Carroll
is not getting any younger if he wants to go
ahead and win one more Super Bowl. Is there a
spot where you could see Tyreek Hill landing in a trade,
perhaps before the season begins. Unlikely but possible. And what
would that pos due to his draft value?

Speaker 4 (37:02):
Pat, you would think that whoever dealt for Tyreek Hill
would have to be a team that felt the Super
Bowl was within reach. And I don't know if any
of the teams you mentioned quite fit that category. But
we are getting into training training camp now We're going
to see injuries happen on almost a daily basis. I

(37:22):
think it would be some sort of contending team that
perhaps lost a top wide receiver to an injury in
training camp.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
All Right, the jury has returned and the verdict is in.
It's a close one, the closest we've had yet. I
can't believe this. Just fifty five percent are in favor
of drafting Tyreek Hill. We are drafting Tyreek Hill. Case
is dismissed. Here, go ahead, draft Tyreek Hill. Look, I

(37:53):
gotta say I'm drafting Tyreek Hill. I took him in
our latest mock draft with my third round pick and
I have him and Chase on that team. Now, theoretically,
if Tyreek Hill isn't very good, well, okay, it's gonna
hurt me, but I still got Chase. I can't pass
him up in the third round. I just can't do it. Andrew,
you had. There are a lot of problems there when
it comes to Tyreek Hill. There's no doubt about that.

(38:15):
On the field, off the field, age y speed, by
all the things or problems. But I'm just not ready
to banish him to the phantom zone either. And I'm
not ready to just eat cocoa puffs either. It says
Papist Morris put out there behind us. Oh, we are
going to continue our discussions here with more wide receivers
before we do. A quick reminder, don't mock draft, don't

(38:37):
draft on your own, be there with us for all
of it. And here's how you do it. The Draft Assistant,
that's what you're gonna use here, the draft assistant with
us here at fantasypros dot com, Slash Assistant that's the
place to go. All you gotta do is just sink
your leagues for free over at Fantasy Pros. Download the app.
That's what you do. It'll give you live pick suggestions

(38:58):
during your draft. It'll tell you who you should take,
who's been taken before, what the recommendations are. If the
team behind you already has a quarterback and I'll say,
don't take a quarterback, you can wait another round. All
those insights, all the cheat sheets, all the intel, everything
at your fingertips at one time. There is no failing here. Okay,
it's all about success. It's all about dominating your draft

(39:20):
and embarrassing your friends and relatives in your fantasy football league.
So let us help you do just that by sinking
your leagues for free at Fantasy Pros. Download the app today.
Wherever you get your apps, go to fantasypros dot com
slash assistant. That's the place where we can help you
on draft day out kick everybody right in. You know what.

(39:41):
That way, you are the fantasy championship at the end
of the day. That's what we want you to be,
the champion. Let's get to another name on our list
here at Fantasy Court. The next name is in a
new spot with the new quarterback and a new offense.
What could go wrong for one DK Metcalf. Let's bring
him into the room and have him take a seed

(40:01):
DK metcalf physical specimen. Yes, of course, DK Metcalf is
now on the Pittsburgh SS Dealers, playing with Aaron Rodgers
and Arthur Smith offense. Boy, oh boy, settle down, everybody.
I know all those things sound really exciting when you
put them all together, but DK Metcalf is still just
twenty seven years old. DK Metcalf has had a strong

(40:24):
career back to back years, though just sixty six receptions.
He's hovering around a thousand yards a combined thirteen touchdowns
receiving over the last two years, just five last year.
But things weren't great necessarily in Seattle last season, so
perhaps we give him a pass. The previous two years
he finished as wide receiver sixteen, wide receiver eighteen, the

(40:44):
two years before that, wide receiver twelve, and wide receiver seven.
So he's going backwards in these rankings. And as you
can tell right now from our Fantasy Post expert consensus rankings,
right now, DK Metcalf is wide receiver twenty two for
Pat fitz Morris. He's right around there at wide receiver twenty,
but Andrew Ericson once again not having it wide receiver

(41:04):
twenty nine. Andrew Rickson, It's time to step up the
game and talk about DK Metcalf. It's time to bring
Metcalf to justice. Let the debates begin.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
DK Metcalf, in my opinion, is overrated. I think that
physical specimen.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Say it to his face with those bisets, dare you,
I dare you?

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Please?

Speaker 2 (41:26):
Don't anybody send him this link of him? Think I
mean thinking he's over and it's really just from fantasy.
He's actually a real, real life, good NFL wide receiver.
But when it comes to fantasy production. Joey talked about it,
how things have gone in the complete opposite direction for
DK Metcalf after starting his career on fire. It's really
not gotten better. And looking back so many debates we've

(41:48):
had about drafting DK Metcalf, Should we draft him in
round three?

Speaker 3 (41:51):
In round two?

Speaker 2 (41:52):
And then at the end of the season, him and
Tyl Lockett end up scoring the same amount of points
and Tyre Lockett was three or four rounds cheaper every
single year. So let's fast forward to the current situation
in Pittsburgh with Arthur Smith, everybody's favorite offensive mind for
fantasy football purposes.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
We all love him.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
We look at the number one wide receiver in Arthur
Smith offenses. You don't ever have to have this guy
on your fantasy team. I look back the six years
that he's either been a head coach or an OC
one receiver has been inside the top twenty five in
points per game as the number one option on an
Arthur Smith offense. And it was aj Brown in twenty
twenty when Ryan Tannehill threw thirty three touchdowns and seven interceptions.

(42:33):
AJ Brown was the wide receiver five in points per game.
But every other season the receiver the top option on
an Arthur Smith offense has not cracked the top twenty five,
and most of the time they have cracked the top
thirty six in terms of points per game for the
wide receiver position. Now, Metcalfs specifically last three seasons outside
the top fifteen overall wide receivers. Last year he was

(42:56):
wide receiver thirty three in points per game, and that
was playing in this up tempo so Ryan Grubb pass
heavy offense. That's not the situation in Pittsburgh. It's the
complete opposite. Pittsburgh with Aaron Rodgers a quarterback. What do
we know, They're gonna run sluggish, They're gonna be a
slow paced offense because Rogers loves to run the playclock down,
They're gonna want to run the football like we've seen

(43:16):
with Arthur Smith traditionally in all of his offenses. That's
why I went out and drafted Caleb Johnson. So for
those reasons, I feel no need to draft dk Metcalf
Because yes, I get that he understands the projects as
the number one receiver and he's this big, exciting receiver
who can catch touchdowns and make big plays, but he's
gonna be so inconsistent you're gonna be pulling your hair
out every single week because I don't think that the

(43:37):
actual sheer volume is going to be that massive, even
if his target share and percentages of the offense are large.
And I think what's also being under sold. We talked
about this guy earlier. I think fits that he had
eighty eight catches last year. Johnny Smith Arthur Smith offenses
have heavily featured the tight end. If you look at
those six offenses I mentioned before, here are the target

(43:57):
shares to the tight ends eighth for first, fifth, third, fourth,
and eighth overall in the league that particular season. They
have two decent tight ends between JOHNA. Smith and Pat
fiarm with. I don't think those guys are scrubs. They
can both command targets, they can both command red zone opportunities.
So Metcalf showed in Seattle that yes he was the alpha,

(44:18):
but it was really more of a one a one bet.
You know, Lockett was always involved in last year, Jysen
had his breakout and Metcalf was still there. You know,
he missed some time because of injuries, but he never
really just clearly establishimself as I'm the only one that
earns targets in this offense. So for those reasons, I'm
out on DK Metcalf.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Pat fitz Morris. It's been brought to the attention of
the court here Andrew Rickson has brought some stats that
I'm going to look at and review again because what
Andrew Erickson is saying is that Arthur Smith and Fantasy
Wide receivers basically that's a big no no, and he's
got the data here to prove it. This is some
damning evidence potentially here incriminating DK Metcalf and Arthur Smith.

(44:57):
And not to mention now John News Smith and others.
Smith has been brought into this offense and We have
seen some prior leans towards Johnny with Arthur Smith offenses.
So this is a tough situation you're in here, Pat
fitz Morris, your back's up against the wall here for
wide receiver twenty defend DK metcalf.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
Pat your honor, let me start by saying, I find
it outrageous that mister Erickson is trying to put Arthur
Smith on trial for the murder of Drake London statistics
in his first two years in the league, while Marcus
Mariota and Desmond Raider and Taylor Heineke walk around his freeman.
Is the prosecution really going to suggest that Aaron Rodgers,

(45:36):
one of the four or five greatest pure passers in
NFL history, he's going to have the same sort of
trouble delivering passes to his number one receiver.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
The Marcus objection, objection, Andrew, you should have objected to
that Aaron Rodgers comment. That is not necessarily fact based,
that is opinion based. That's what Pat fitz mor is.
I will let the objection that I created stand. You
may continue, but be careful about what you say around
Aaron Rodgers around this court, my friend. All right, that
is purely circumstantial and opinion based Aaron Rodgers' analysis, But

(46:10):
continue past.

Speaker 4 (46:11):
I realize his honor is a big Johnny unitas fan,
so I retract my previous day love.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
The Johnny you also we have to take with a
grain of salt, mister packer, mister cheesehead giving us. Is
Aaron Rodgers glazing here on the program, But we will
return to the DK Metcalf. Let's stick to DK here
and Aaron Rodgers. You may continue. Be careful what comes next. Pat.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
I do think it's fair to suggest that Aaron Rodgers
will not have the same sort of issues delivering passes
to his number one receiver that Marcus Mariota and Desmond
Ridder did. And I know Aaron Rodgers at forty one
is not quite what he was in his prime, But
I think Aaron Rodgers at seventy one will be a
better passer than either Marcus Mariota or Desmond Ridder. Enough

(46:56):
of Old Falcon's history. Though DK Metcalf has average seventy
three catches, one fifty four yards and eight touchdowns a
year over six seasons in Seattle, he's been extremely durable.
DK Metcalf will be the unquestioned number one receiver in
Pittsburgh which doesn't appear to have another good wide receiver

(47:17):
on the roster, and Aaron Ron Rogers managed to make
not one but two wide receivers, Devonte Adams and Garrett
Wilson weekly must starts for fantasy last year. DK Metcalf
will be a must start player this year, as he
has been for the entirety of his career.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
All right, there you have it, everybody, Dk Metcalf, the pros,
the cons. Now the vote. It's up to you, the
jury here. The poll is now up. Are you drafting
DK Metcalf and giving Andrew Rickson a win here? Or no,
I don't know, are we against drafting DK Metcalf. This
one's gonna be closed. I could feel it, I could
smell it. Let's talk about that one glaring obvious thing.

(47:58):
I think it was what what Charlie? They brought it
up in the chat here, Andrew, which is Aaron Rodgers
does have tunnel vision historically for a guy, and pretty
much ZK is the guy and the only guy here
you can really justify getting that kind of attention. Do
you think that that alone is enough to propel him
past a mediocre twenty twenty four campaign into a better

(48:21):
twenty twenty five performance.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
No, I don't. I just think that.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yes, even if Metcalf is the number one target, I'm
looking at it from a what's the actual sheer volume?

Speaker 1 (48:32):
Like?

Speaker 3 (48:32):
What does that actually mean?

Speaker 2 (48:33):
And that's what I was trying to capture looking at
the Arthur Smith offenses. Not necessarily the efficiency, which agreed
Rogers is going to be more efficient than those other
quarterbacks were. But what's the upside case if Metcalf is
really round? Oh, because he's a number one, he gets
eight targets a game, is that enough for him to
be Oh, he's locked and loaded top twenty four wide receiver.
Maybe maybe the week's he scores touchdowns. It's good, But

(48:55):
what about in games where the Steelers are playing bullyball
and they're feeding Caleb Johnson twenty twenty five?

Speaker 3 (49:00):
What's gonna happen then with Mecalf? Probably not that much.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
And I get that the receivers are bad, but what
if those two tight ends were just receivers instead? Did
those two titles are gonna both command targets in this offense?
Just based on what Arthur Smith does. They traded for
Jonah Smith. He's gonna be involved in some capacity, especially underneath.
You think Rogers is gonna want to wait and drop
back and wait for Dk Metcalf to get open downfield.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
He's forty one, he doesn't want to take hits. He's
gonna get the ball out to Jonah Smith, just like
they did in Miami.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Pat fitz Morris. Aaron Rodgers, who some might say in
this courtroom, and by some I mean people wearing Brewers hats.
Some might say that Aaron Rodgers can save Dk Metcalfs
fantasy season. But let the record show a QBR forty
one in twenty twenty two with the Packers, a quarterback

(49:49):
in decline, coming off his first year in Many where
he didn't reach four thousand yards passing, then the injury
the achilles in twenty twenty three, now age forty one
with the New York Jets, last year under four thousand
yards passing and a QBR of forty eight, passer rating
of ninety. That's fine and dandy, but again, certainly the

(50:09):
statistics are saying and suggesting that Aaron Rodgers also a
player who is way past his prime. Do you really
think that just because DK's the lone guy that Aaron
Rodgers is good enough at this stage of his career
to really make DK Metcalf a guy worth drafting.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
I do think he will be. And you look at
it over the years, and what is the favorite pass
Aaron Rodgers likes to throw. Over the years, he has
destroyed defenses on that back shoulder sideline throw. He did
it with Jordy Nelson, he did it with DeVante Adams.
I think he's going to do it with DK Metcalf,

(50:48):
who was with his physical stature, very well equipped to
be right up there with Jordy and Davante as a
great catcher of the back shoulder fade.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
All right, I've been told the jury is in and
we have a decision, and I have to say, it's shocking.
This is this is a shocking decision here. It's a
sixty two percent decision here. I thought this one would
be much closer. I thought this would be a fifty
one to forty nine scenario. I don't think it's going
to be a happy day in the Andrew Erickson house
because yet again he has lost this debate sixty two

(51:24):
percent in favor of drafting DK Metcalf. This court is
ruling in favor of drafting DK Metcalf based on the
people Andrew Erickson. Perhaps the basement is where you should be,
which is where your wife has now relegated your office
to in your new home. So hopefully you can pull
out this last one. You've got one player left to debate.

(51:47):
Let's see how it goes here. Before we get there,
keep the conversation going on our Discord fantasypros dot Com
slast chat. Look out happy I am when I'm talking
about Discord. Look at me. Oh Discord It's so much fun.
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amazing people in our community. If you want to get
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(52:08):
if you want to just talkball, need some help on
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can also hang out with us on shows that we
record on Discord during the season, and even preseason, so join.

(52:31):
We want you there, hang out with us, be part
of our community at fantasypros dot com slash chat, join
our discord today the final player to debate. We've come
full circle here in this courtroom today. Back to another
guy on the New Orleans Saints, Chris Olave, a player
with great talent but also great risk. Some concussion issues

(52:54):
last year really unfortunately derailed his season. Fits has them
at wide receiver third two. Ericsson has that wide receiver
forty two thirty one is actually where the ECR lies.
So neither of you guys like him as much as
the consensus. Pat clearly you're closer to the consensus. Andrew Erickson,

(53:15):
you are further away from the consensus. Now, I will
tell you, Andrew, I've set you up for success on
this one because I am where you are. But again,
I don't decide. The people decide. You're watching us on YouTube,
subscribe to the channel, and those are the people ultimately
who will decide the fate of to draft or not
to draft. Chris o'lave. Court is in session. Let's hear

(53:37):
your arguments against drafting Chris o'lave Andrew Rickson.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Well, if we're already draft no Alvin Kamara. I don't
know if I could stomach having two Saints fair enough.

Speaker 1 (53:46):
That's a good start.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
So that's how that's my Oh, that's my opening statement.
I cannot co sign having two Saints. Maybe one Saint,
but not two Saints on the same fantasy football team. Now,
my issue with a Lave last year again not great
wide receiver forty ten points per game, and that was
in his six full games because I know he missed
a bunch of games where he got knocked out early.

Speaker 3 (54:09):
The issue I have with a Lave is the.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Weekly ceiling appeal with him, because when you look at
his body of work, you point to, yes, he's excellent
in terms of the yards per route run. I think
that showcases how talented he is as a route runner.
But the issue I have is he really hasn't shown
a weekly ceiling. Last year, he was being out produced
by Rashichi. He Rashiji was like on his way to
this full fledged breakout until he got injured. But you

(54:35):
look at the targets, the air yards sh he was
running circles around Chris Olave. He also posted more top
twelve weekly finishes and that's my main point with a Lave.
The last two seasons, Rashichi has more top twelve weekly
finishes Olave over his career has averaged fewer than two
top twelve finishes per season. So when you put him

(54:58):
in your lineup, he is a f play at best.
He is not hitting your lineup and giving you league
or week winning type of potential. And when you look
at him in the context of this offense, where is
that gonna happen unless Tyler Shuck just dramatically outperforms where
he was drafted as a second round pick, which traditionally
historically has not been a high hit rate for quarterbacks

(55:20):
in any capacity. I don't see the upside case to
go after a Lave. So, yeah, there's a scenario where
he can quote unquote. Now I'm using air quotes again.
Let everyone please let the record show.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Once again that the lawyer is using air quotes. Okay,
you may proceed, Andrew Erickson, it's been noted.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Oh, I appreciate.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
You, welcome. Don't kiss my rear end. Okay, it's not
gonna get you any further in my courtroom. Just putting
that out there. Continue.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I don't see the upside case from a weekly perspective
with a Lave. And when you look at just the
last twenty four games that a Lave has played alongside
Rashid Shiheed, Shaheed has averaged fifty six and a half
receiving yards per game compared to Olave's sixty four. That's
a difference of eight receiving yards per game. So I

(56:08):
understand trying to find value with the Saints offense with
some of these guys that are all discounted across the
board in case Shuck is better than expected and it's
not this bottom feeder offense, but I want to get
that at the cheapest price that I can get, and
that's what Shahid who's going as wide receiver fifty five,
despite the fact he was out producing Chris Olave last season.
And the last point I'll make before going over to

(56:31):
fits Olave. The thing with his game that I don't
think is going to translate well with Shuck or any
bad quarterback plays. He doesn't make yards after the catch,
and I don't know if that's to do with the
issues he's has staying healthy with concussions, but he's a
more of a traditional I catch the ball, I make
great plays and then I fall down. So if he's
not adding extra yards after the catch, he's more now

(56:52):
reliant on the quarterback play being above average, which I'm
very skeptical is going to be the case with Tyler Shuck.
So yeah, that's why I'm not really all.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Right fair enough I am. I will say this, I
don't expect that quarterback play to be average. I think
below average would be kind potentially for the quarterback play
this year. Pat fitz Morris, it's a pretty good argument
that andrew Ers has laid out against Chris o'lave. I
think you have to work uphill here. So let me
put that backpack on you and let's see if you
can make that climb to getting the people on board

(57:23):
with drafting Chris o lave this season.

Speaker 4 (57:26):
Well, I think Ericson in part made my case for
me when he mentioned Chris Olave's outstanding yards per route
run figures over his career. In fact, his career yards
per route run is two point twenty one yards. That's
just tenth of a percentage point behind Jamar Chase and
CD Lamb in the category of career yards per route run.

(57:49):
So he has pedigree as an elite wide receiver to
some degree, and Chris O. Lave was being drafted late
in the second round in the third round of twenty
twenty three and twenty twenty four fantasy drafts. Now, let's
frame this debate for what it is. We're talking about
whether to draft him as a seventh rounder. And I

(58:11):
would contend that despite some of the risks which I acknowledge,
there is the concussion risk, although I would remind the
court that if mister Olave were to miss time with
a concussion, his fantasy managers are entitled to put a
bench player or a waiver wire acquisition into a Lave's
lineup spot, as opposed to taking a zero for that
spot while mister Olave recovers. And I know there are

(58:34):
concerns about the offense for the Saints and the quarterback situation.
Even the worst offenses in the NFL generate three thousand
passing yards per season at minimum. Although I regret to
note in front of this particular judge and prosecuting attorney
that the New England Patriots fell six yards short of

(58:55):
three thousand passing yards in twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1 (58:59):
Please know so mentions of how bad the Patriots were
in previous seasons. It hurts my feelings, and Andrew Rickson
please proceed.

Speaker 4 (59:08):
So Chris Olav, lean into.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
You're out of order if Fitz Morris, I'm just telling
you way out of order at that one.

Speaker 4 (59:18):
Lean into the yards per route run and how Chris
o'lave has shown us he's an elite route runner with
excellent speed, and while there are some headwinds for him,
I find a seventh round price very reasonable for a
wide receiver of his caliber.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
All right, I want to put this to the jury,
but I want the jury to hear this and listen
to these instructions very carefully. Chris o'lave is in the ECR,
going right around George Pickens, who plays with Dak Prescott,
Travis Hunter, who plays with Trevor Lawrence, Chris Godwin who
plays with Baker Mayfield. Heck, even Jerry Judy. I think
his quarterback situation, although he has five thousand of them,

(59:57):
I think all of them are better than what they
have in New Orleans. So please keep that in mind
when deliberating here this final Chris Olave, the jury may
now deliberate. In the meantime, we are going to ask
you to like this video because you're hanging out with
us and you're watching almost three hundred of you live here.
It's really fun. We appreciate you being with us. Subscribed
to Fantasy Pros. We're trying to get to three hundred

(01:00:17):
thousand subscribers this year. We could do it with your help.
Drop your comments below and you might win yourself that
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bad boy can be yours. That's a pretty snazzy look
in jersey. All right, we are waiting for the results

(01:00:40):
to come in here. Andrew Rickson, are you confident that
this time around, finally the people have heard your argument.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Maybe I'm not sure. Maybe I'll get a pity vote
because they don't want to see me go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
But then again, I think they may all want to
see fits go five and oh and just complete the sweep.

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Should I get my broom? Now? I got one?

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
Pat fitz Morris, are you prepared for the clean, sweet
potentially of Andrew Erickson in this courtroom today. I gotta
say I did not see the DK one coming here
on this last one.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
Yeah, I'm prepared to go five to zero, and being
a humble defense attorney, I will not make any Lionel
Huts jokes in references.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
There you go, what could go wrong when Lionel Huts
is there? The jury is in. We have a verdict,
and this one is our biggest yet. Seventy four percent
have gone one way this time. They have gone with
the prosecution. They are not drafting Chris o'lave and neither
am I case dismissed. Get out of here, Chris Olave

(01:01:45):
not this season. We wish him all the health, all
the best. But New Orleans quarterback situation. Even a great
lawyer like you, Pat fitz Morris, I mean, when your
argument is well, there's guys on the waiver wire on
your bench, that's a losing argument. You lost me right there.
That's when I was done. You didn't have enough there,
But you did go four and one over Andrew ericson
today on the Fantasy Football Draft court, join us. I'm

(01:02:09):
not burying the lead. Hey, better to leave on a
high note, Andrew Ricks And that's what I always say,
and you can join us next week, same time, same station,
Fantasy Pros Draft Court Tuesday, three pm Eastern. Don't forget.
Subscribe to the channel, ring the bell and then you
get that little alert bing bing Look, oh, Fantasy Draft Court.
I'm gonna watch that because Joe's wearing a wig and

(01:02:30):
they're giving out good fantasy football advice. And that's why
we want you to be with us here on the channel.
So that'll do it for us today, But the story
of the game goes on for our two attorneys Andrew
ericson Pat fitz Morris. I want to thank all of
our people here on the jury today as well. I
am Judge Joey. This courtroom is now adjourned. Enjoy the

(01:02:51):
rest of your day, everybody. Thanks for listening to the
Fantasy Pros Fantasy Football Podcast. If you love the show,
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Will Tyreek Hill Have Another Elite Season? | Fantasy Football Draft Court Debates (Ep. 1626)

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Andrew Erickson

Joe Pisapia

Derek Brown

Thor Nystrom

Ryan Wormeli

Pat Fitzmaurice

Matthew Freedman

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Will Tyreek Hill Have Another Elite Season? | Fantasy Football Draft Court Debates (Ep. 1626)