June 19, 2025 • 43 mins
The Al Franken Show’s Al Franken examines how the cruelty of Trumpism is affecting the way the Senate operates. Colonel Bree Fram details Trump’s trans military ban and how it’s impacting the military’s competence and those who serve our country.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And Christin nom is alert and recovering after a trip
to the hospital for.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
An allergic reaction.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We have such a great show for you today the
Al Franken Shows.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Al Franken stops by.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
To talk about trump ISM's cruelty affecting the way the
Senate operates. Then we'll talk to Colonel Briefram about Trump's
trans military ban and how it's affecting the military's confidence and.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The people who serve our country. But first the news'.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Somali the Supreme Court. I'm here to tell you it's
not woke. They have banned gender affirming care for transgender
youth in this case over at Tennessee law.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, so about half of the states have similar laws
on the books. These are laws that ban kids from
having hormone therapy and other treatments. The question is is
Tennessee simply regulating the practice of medicine or discriminating on
the basis of sex. Now, if it was discriminating on
(01:09):
the basis of sex, that would mean it was a
higher legal bar. I want to add again that and
this was a six' to three, ruling which means all
The conservatives ruled against and the liberals ruled. For we
still don't have an equal rights, amendment so technically discriminating
on the basis of sex is something that at least
(01:29):
theoretically not enshrined in our constitution. Anyway roberts rights in the,
majority of, course and the case carries with it the
weight of fear scientific and policy debates about this, safety,
efficiency and property of medical treatments in an evolving. Field
questions regarding the law's policy are appropriate left to the,
(01:51):
people their executive, representatives and the democratic. Process this Is
roberts pretending that he's not making a ruling when he's
really made. Ruling It's robert's, court, Right he's not the swing,
boat but he happens to be the Chief. JUSTICE i
am not surprised by this, ruling BUT i think it's
worth remembering.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
This is a very very very very far right.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Court.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Okay there are Six conservatives and three liberals on this.
Court and there's the Stolen scullio seat, right Which mitch
mcconald's stole For. Trump there is THE rbg seat Which
Donald trump And mitch mcconald's stole From Joe. Biden so
this should not be a surprise because this court is so.
(02:36):
Conservative but it's worth understanding who's going to be hurt by.
This children who feel they're in the wrong, body, right
kids who are already suffering so much are going to
be hurt by, This and who is going to be
helped by. This republicans who want to Use trant's children
(02:56):
as a wedge.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Issue it's really.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Despicable, So, MOLLY i feel like you, know each day
you wake, up you get, dressed you get a, coffee
you see another poorer economic. Indicator that's really. Sig we're
in a lot of trouble. Today we see the housing
market slump is getting a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Worse, YEAH i mean look this. Again here we Are
trump does all of.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
These trump's been in office Since, january and during that
period he's trying to enact tax. Cuts it's still THE
bbb wildly, unpopular still sort of trying to make its
way through The. Senate but what he has done is
he's engaged in trade. War and this trade war has
been largely. Inflationary we'll talk about that, later but what
(03:40):
it also has done besides being, inflationary is has gotten
a lot of people. Nervous and when people get, nervous
they don't make big financial. Purchases and so what we
see here is builders broke around on home construction In
may at the slowest pace in five. Years, right we're
seeing less, building less, bye less. Turnover and what that
(04:02):
means is when people don't buy, houses they don't do
you know that money to realtors doesn't go there's tax
incentives when people sell. Houses all of this stuff means
that there'll be less money in the, economy less money for.
Building and by the, way one of the reasons why
they're not, building why are they not Building?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Jesse they don't build back? Better, no there's no economic. Confidence,
well and they don't know how much steal's going to, cost,
right they don't.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Know there's actually crazy headlines about that today.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Too you can't start a project if you don't know
how much things are going to. Cost it's.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
True And i've talked to other small business owners who
have to get things From. China they just literally can't
project their, profits so they can't hire fun. Stuff speaking
of other fun, stuff you know what doesn't inspire confidence
When trump just sits around and picks a fight With
california all, day and now he's, saying no more money
for your high speed, rail which admittedly a lot of people,
said really they were building.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That, yeah we didn't even know that there was a
high speed.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Rail i'm going to technically, SAY i knew that they
kind of funded, IT i didn't think they were actually
doing anything with.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
It, yeah these large democratic projects that don't ultimately seem
to be going. Anywhere we should have high speed. Rail
it is crazy that we don't have high speed. Rail
and the fact that this that we've got millions is
this looks like. Billions i'm going to read you a.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Line the rail line aimed.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
At going From San francisco To Los angeles has gotten
six point nine billion dollars in federal money over the
last fifteen. Years this is not. GOOD i think that
there is something fucking sketchy, here and it's very annoying and,
infuriating AND i do not like, it not one little.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Bit, So, molly there's very rarely times WHERE i, go you,
know if that, happened that's WHAT i would really get
all my buddy and pack it up and Leave Dald
trump suggested that maybe he should run THE.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Fed, yeah few things would he be better at than
running THE. Fed this is, truppy but you, know and
we've heard him say stuff like. This he, says MAYBE
i should go to THE. Fed trump, said AM i
allowed to appoint myself at THE? FED i do a
much better job than these. People NOW i want you
(06:23):
all to come with. Me back to his business. Career
this is one of the very few people who managed
to lose money In New York city real. Estate so
the fact that he wants to now run THE. Fed, look,
MAN i can't tell you how Much trump two point zero.
Sucks real talk, Here, jesse just for a, minute, please
(06:45):
should you think this would? Suck BECAUSE i think it
sucks more THAN i thought it would.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
SUCK i think it's more like an apple and arge.
Thing it's just like the flavors of rot of the
fruit are a lot, tasting a lot different THAN i
thought they.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Would but it's so fucking. BAD i, mean AND i
just need to tell. You he's obviously not going to
point himself to THE. Fed this is him just doing
his trolley. Thing but the fact that he's even having
these conversations when my man is so cooked is just
everything you need to. Know Al franken is a former
(07:20):
senator and the host Of The Al Franken. Show welcome
back To Fast.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Politics well thanks thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Me it's funny because we were texting yesterday AND i was,
like can we can.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Will you come on the? Pod And you're, like, well
what do you want to talk? About it is just every,
day you.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Know In trump one point, zero it was like there
were so many pieces written about Like, Trump Donald trump assignment.
Editor you know that we would be sort of in,
this you, know you'd sort of try to catch the.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Stories it used to be sort of like there was.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
A novelty to. It NOW i find myself just crushed
by the.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
NEWS i find it difficult. Too it, is especially if
you have to cover.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
It and it's like part of why he, does you,
know it's distraction from distraction from distraction from distraction what he?
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Does, yeah, okay well right now we got the immigration
stuff and we got a thing In israel.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Happening, Yes so when we were, TEXTING i, SAID i,
said what can we talk?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
About regime?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Change it struck me as the one thing that everyone
agreed both on the left and the. Right in the
twenty four cycle was no more golf, wars and now
it looks like we're on the precipice of yet another golf.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
War well hopefully. Not BUT i am for regime change In,
iran and that probably is the only way you get.
It but IF i was living In, Iran i'd be
reading for regime. Change but you, know the best thing
that can, HAPPEN i. GUESS i guess is that they
(08:59):
the J cpoa gets. Renewed you, Know trump is now
threatening to join israel, side right AND i think he
will if there If iran doesn't cowto in a couple of.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Days you have served with these. People you know what The,
senate what's happening in The senate right?
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Now i'm not SURE i know what's happening in The
senate right, now but going.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Well you sort of have a sense of how this all.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Works AND i have a theory of the case that
we don't have enough that we The american people don't
have enough of a sense of how these decisions are,
made how the legislature. Works so right now it's being
sort of written about like this is All Donald trump's
choice is this All Donald trump's?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Choice and if, so.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Why, WELL i think The republicans have basically said whatever you, want,
sir and SO i think it is his. Choice so
he's a very powerful. President he gets to decide what
whether we go to war or. Not that's WHAT i.
THINK i, MEAN i don't think That Lindsay, graham who
is a big hawk like On, ukraine has any influence on.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Him we're seeing visuals right OF ice going after. People in,
fact there was a recent video OF ice schoons taking
a guy who was a translator In. Afghanistan our last
Failed Middle Eastern, way which happened like eighteen months, AGO
i mean not even eighteen months, ago maybe two years,
(10:30):
ago was the you know it basically was.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
There they tried to take a translator who worked FOR,
us who saved our lives, yea In.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Afghanistan there's a video of AN ice guy's trying to
arrest a and he, says But i'm a was a,
translator you. KNOW i, mean we're still dealing with the
wreckage of the most Recent but he must.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Be completely, LEGAL i would.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
THINK i mean a lot of these videos we see
these people are actually, legal but are being detained BY.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
ICE i, mean for, Example Brad, lander he.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Was handcuffed, too, right.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, yeah detained for many hours.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yesterday what's the play here besides Helping, democrats what's the
play Being ice just arresting random.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
People, Well i'm not sure it's even Helping democrats that.
MUCH i MEAN i think that it's AS i look
look at the, polling people are split on, this and
it splits the long party. Lines So i'm not sure
it helps, us even as egregious as it all.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
IS i think yesterday to Watch Governor hokeel go into
And lander actually gave an interview last night On Chris
hayes where you talked about how they let him out
When hokeel, Came LIKE i do think people DON'T i,
mean the idea that they're just arresting. Electeds, now you
(11:55):
can be a low frequency, voter but you don't want
like once they start arresting. PEOPLE i, mean it doesn't
even look like you, know you could say, OKAY i
don't work in a, field but you're not going to be, Like,
Okay i'm not this second highest elected official In New,
york so this will never happen.
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Or a centator from you, know the senior centator From.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
California, California, yeah which was. RIDICULOUS i mean it is
a sea.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Change to have videos of electeds being arrested like that
is a profound.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Sea can two in how many, days you, know four
days or something like. That, yeah, yeah it is a sea.
Change it's but ubly interested to see if we see another.
One is it.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Like are we sleep? WALKING i, mean obviously this is.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
AUTHORITARIANISM i MEAN i don't think there's any you, know
when they start arresting politicians who are from the other.
PARTY i, mean isn't this like what we see in
countries that we. STUDY i, mean isn't that what this?
Speaker 5 (13:02):
Is, WELL i don't. KNOW i mean, this you, know
you can say honest mistake in both. CASES i mean
it's hard to buy in the case of the, senator
but you, KNOW i mean he starts getting pushed. OUT
i don't know what she saw and what she. Heard
it was absolutely. Egregious BUT i don't know if this
(13:26):
is going to be a.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
TREND i really, don't, RIGHT i wonder why we have
another police force that wears?
Speaker 5 (13:34):
Masks, well why do they wear a? MASK i, mean
these are the ones that are apprehending what they say
are undocumented. People, yes it's.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Like a kind of like. There you, know it's funny
because you think about.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
Seen beforeforce in our. COUNTRY i don't remember this at.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
All there have been times In american life where we've,
had you, know AN fb that was out of, control
like the j AND gi THAT fbi was out of.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Control. Right we've had times when.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Law, enforcement the federal government has done really sketchy.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
STUFF i, mean change.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
On various people Like Martin Luther king.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Citizens, Yeah Martin Luther, King that's WHAT i was thinking.
About but this is sort of more. Blatant and, then you,
know one of the things THAT i wonder about so
much Is trump defenders will say he doesn't really mean,
that it's not really this, right and then he'll co
and be, like, NO i really want to Detain. Democrats
(14:39):
like one of my favorite things he did this he
said they should Arrest remember they should arrest governor knew.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Something, yes because he's a very bad.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Governor, yeah well that's the, charge, right you, know very bad.
Governor and then but THEN i would go to you,
know a judge who would be the the district court,
judge and he would reverse it and then it would
did appeal, right go work up to the spring court
(15:11):
and there'd be on that. ONE i don't, know a
six to three.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
VOTE i want to talk to you About minnesota because
you are A. Minnesotan is that? RIGHT i?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Am this has been a, horrible horrible week For.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Minnesota you had a state representative Named Melissa, hortman Who
i'm sure you.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
KNOW i know.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
HER i know she's a, great an amazing. PERSON i
campaigned around the state with. Her she was a great,
speaker she got an incredible amount. Done she was a
no nonsense, speaker but also just a person with incredible
heart and. Humor and couldn't talk about a better person
(15:51):
Than Melissa. Hortman and it is an absolute tragedy that
she and her husband and The hoffmans don't understand how they.
RECOVERED i heard they had nine shots in them each
or something like. That, yeah well it was accomplished an incredible.
Amount in two thousand and, three they had they had a.
Trifecta they passed an amazing amount of great, stuff like
(16:15):
free college for people who can't afford. It it's going
to be breakfast and lunch for all kids In. Minnesota every. Kid,
yeah you know that kind of. Thing one hundred percent
renewable energy by twenty and. Forty it was her leadership
and the governor and that made it able to go
through if you knew. Her this is just an incredible
(16:37):
law of personal. Loss it's hard to believe that it's.
Happened her kids wrote. Something did you see?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
This?
Speaker 5 (16:45):
No, well her kids wrote something and they said what
you could do to honor their, Parents and this is
just part of what they. Wrote but they, said plant a.
Tree had a, dog and their, dog Their Golden, retriever
was killed. Too the guy killed their.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Dog it was being trained as a service dog to blind.
People so they killed the service.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
DOG i killed the service.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Dog visit a local park and make use of their,
amenities especially a bike. Trail bake, something read For mark
that's their. Dad take From melissa and share it with with.
Someone try a new hobby and enjoy learning. Something stand
for what you, believe especially at that thing is justice and.
Peace that's her.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Kids so they got murdered because she was successful at
passing things that help.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
People.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Yeah, Absolutely and The Mike lee joke or whatever that
was supposed to. Be this is what happens When marxists
don't get their. Way it was an attempt to say
that they were killed from the, left which is just.
EVIL i can't. COULDN'T i can't believe that this guy
(18:01):
voted For his roommate said he voted For. Trump he,
was you, know anti. Abortion And Mike lee is trying
to do a one a joke in the wake of this,
thing and then two something to try to misdirect people
is who the killer.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Was So Tina smith takes him, aside and we don't
know what she, says but we see a photo of
her just what looks like really talking to. Him he
does not, apologize because this is. Magas he can't, apologize
but he does delete the tweets and then he starts
(18:42):
running away from camera crew when they ask, him what
do you think this?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
IS i, Mean Mike lee is not a, Podcaster he's a.
SENATOR i, mean what do you, think like you know
a lot of these.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
PEOPLE i Know.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
MIKE i Know, mike and he thinks of himself was a.
Whit he really screwed up, HERE i, mean he really screwed.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Up and.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
That's WHY i did WHAT i saw that footage of
him not talking to the, reporter AND i don't blame.
Them what he did was so embarrassing and this is
just like and completely in service of an evil. Intent
SO i just DON'T i don't get, it you, know
(19:27):
is not.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Stupid one of the things THAT i was struck by
is when he deleted the. Tweets even though he didn't
apologize and he didn't say, anything and he didn't do
what he really should have, done there is a sense
that he definitely understood this was a loser for, him
right that being that these two people being murdered in
(19:50):
their beds and then these other people being almost, murdered
that maybe this was in fact the bridge too. Far
we have lived with political violence now since we are
in this new. NORMAL i, mean this is something we
had in the sixties and it's sort of back. NOW
(20:10):
i want so badly to be one of the people
who helped shut this, down who helped stop this political.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Violence AND i just. Wonder you've been in so many
worlds like comedy and, government AND i wonder what you
think the sort of the way to do it.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
IS i WISH i had an answer for. You there
doesn't seem to be. ONE i don't know how to
stop this. Violence these are people who ARE i, think
have gone over the edge in most. CASES i don't
know why the guy who shot At trump did, that
what was going on with that with? Him and this
IS i don't know how you stop THESE i WISH i.
(20:51):
DID i WISH i had had a good answer for.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
YOU i think that a lot of people In minnesota
understand that this is so dangerous and scary that it
needs to be talked about as what it, is, right which,
is you, know this incredible red line that has been
crossed and needs to not be crossed. Again you, Know
minnesota has it's just a state where there's a lot of,
(21:13):
Religion there's a lot of you, know it's just a
lot Of.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
This guy evidently was a bit of a religious.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Freak, YEAH i just wonder like how you feel about
this and how and just how you've first reacted to,
this and just you, know how politics has shifted and
what your take on this.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Is my take Is i'm sure what the take of
most people, is which is this shit is. Happening AND
i do Blame trump to a degree for basically saying
that the violence is, okay and he did that by
pardoning all the people who were In january, sixth and
(21:56):
there are people who died because Of january sixth And
Capital police right who died and then who committed suicide
because what happened to. Them AND i think that the
question isn't you, know Does trump deserve some responsibility? HERE
(22:19):
i think it's, yes it's just to what extent right
of an atmosphere of.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Violence Colonel breenfram is An american military, officer astronautical, engineer
and transgender rights. Activist welcome to Vast, Politics Colonel, Fram
thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Because you work at THE. DoD give us your.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Disclaimer, Yeah i'm joining you today in my personal, capacity
and my views do not necessarily reflect those of The
department Of defense or The United states.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Government right, now tell me what your title, is what you,
do and a little bit about.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
That so THOUGH i have been played based on administrative
leave at this point pending, SEPARATION i remain a active
duty colonel in The United States Space, force and in
my final, ASSIGNMENT i was The director Of Requirements integration
for The Space. Force what that means is my team
AND i were the ones that defined the capabilities that
(23:19):
we would need, five, ten twenty years in the future
to ensure that we stay ahead of our adversaries and
should conflict extend into, space that we were prepared to.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Win space force is the hardest of the branches to get.
Into so you obviously had a pretty impressive military. CAREER
i would love you to just talk about. That how
you got into the, military how you got. Here you're
A i don't want to get this, wrong but you're
technically a rocket. Scientist explain to us what you do
and just sort of how you got.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Here, sure so my career at in the three minute.
NUTSHELL i am an astronautical engineer by, education or colloquially
a rocket. SCIENTIST i had no intention of joining the
military WHEN i grew, up THOUGH i did want to
be an aerospace. ENGINEER i had been inspired By Star.
TREK i wanted to Be Jordie LaForge and make the
(24:11):
warp engines go help humanity expand into the. Stars BUT
i graduated in two thousand and one and AS i
was looking for, jobs we were, attacked and that was
one of the few moments in my life where everything
changed in a, heartbeat AND i wanted to give. BACK
i wanted to be part of something greater than myself
and defend the freedoms and the opportunities That i'd been
(24:33):
given AND i enjoyed to make sure they were there
for future. Generations despite, THAT i knew there was something
THAT i was going to have to hide about myself
in order to. Serve and that's a burden on an.
Individual you can be good at your, job you can
be great at your, job but you can never be
your best if you're paying that mental tax to protect your.
(24:54):
Identity BUT i had an amazing career working on technology
element programs a number of. SATELLITES i had two opportunities
to take technology right from the laboratory to the battlefield
early in my career WHEN i deployed To iraq to
do counter ied, detection and then later in my career
(25:14):
WHEN i did counter drone. Work and that's in addition
to all the cool space Programs i've worked, on like missile,
warning launch, vehicles communications. Intelligence it's been an incredible, ride
and to have ended up in The Space force was
like a dream come. True when they finally let the engineers,
in it felt like a marriage. Proposal WHEN i was
(25:36):
asked to join AND i was, like, yes, yes a thousand. Times,
yes this is WHERE i.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
BELONG i want to point this out BECAUSE i feel
like civil. Servants you're not a civil servant, obviously but
people work for the government have been so disparaged by
THE doge. Crew but technically you could make a lot
more money just working in like, plastics, RIGHT i, mean
in the private.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Sector can you explain to us why you have a
skill set that's very in.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Demand, yeah a lot of members of the military can
make far more on the. Outside but there is something
that keeps us. In it is that element of, service
that element of. Character what do we care about as
well as the bonds we've formed with the people around,
us who we've served with for, decades that matter so
deeply to mission accomplishment and what we believe the military
(26:24):
provides for this. Country but we've been given education, clearances
specialized skills that are incredibly valuable on the, outside and
you're right that many of us could make, two three
or more times as much should we choose to leave
and serve in the private. Sector but that's not what
(26:45):
keeps us. Serving we are not motivated by those. Things
we have an oath that we swore to care about
and defend the ideals embedded in The, constitution and that
matters to.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Us The trump administration has gone to war with trans.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
People is really all they care about is being obsessed
with trans. People they think it's a political winner for
them or. Whatever who even knows what the thinking is.
There for whatever, reason they are extremely mad at trans.
People you are, trans you are in the. Military this
is a group that they are obsessed. With so tell
(27:22):
us how they've targeted.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
You, well there was an executive order soon after this
administration came in Called Prioritizing Military excellence And, readiness and
that executive order classified us as, undisciplined dishonorable liars who
lack the humility required for military. Service and while the
attack on our character was certainly, THERE i have to
(27:45):
laugh a little bit about, that particularly when you say
you lack the humility. REQUIRED i was not aware that
was a key piece of the military. Ethos AND i
do ask have they ever met a, pilot because in
our military we are filled with, pilots and the pilots
are going to tell you not only that they're a
pilot in the first two minutes you talk with, them
but that they are the greatest, pilot and that is
(28:08):
kind of necessary for those of us who are going
to be on the front, lines who are going to
launch themselves into the air in this advanced equipment that
they are at the controls. Of you have to have
a little bit of that, confidence sometimes even bordering on,
arrogance that you can do this really hard. Thing and
that's what trans people have been asked to do in the,
(28:31):
military do the hard. Things and if trans people can
thrive in that kind of, environment doing the most demanding
missions our nation has to, offer it is proof that
we belong. Everywhere and we have had nearly a decade
now of trans people serving openly accomplishing their wartime, missions
(28:53):
deployed around the world and here at home all the,
time and there is no evidence whatsoever that we have
failed at any of. That we meet or exceed standards.
Consistently AND i think.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's important to mention that to be in The Space,
FORCE i, mean how many people are even in The Space,
FORCE i, mean just talk us through how rigorous a
process that.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Is, yeah we have about ten thousand people in uniform
in The Space, force so we are, tiny and we
have a lot of people that would love to serve
in this highly, technical highly capable, service and so have
had the luxury of having far more people want to
be in The Space force than we have spots. Available
(29:36):
so for my career, field for the engineers that wanted
to transfer into The Space force at the, beginning they
held a board and were allowed to be very selective
with who was brought over into the. Service and so
here may be a bit of my touch lack of
humility in THAT i think we are incredibly talented, people
(29:58):
and the folks THAT i have had the honor of
serving with in The Space force are the most incredible
PEOPLE i have ever. Met they are so, talented so,
smart so welcoming the fact that we've built this truly
twenty first century military culture that lets everyone be their
best and get after that mission we have to secure
(30:19):
our nation's interests in from and to space is such
a joy to be a part of because we are
doing incredible things with limited. Resources Incredibly, WELL i.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Want you explain where you are right, now What trump
has done to trand service.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Members, yeah we are all being forced. Out these are
thousands and thousands of service members who were told you
either had to voluntarily identify yourself and request separation or,
retirement or you would enter this involuntary phase where there
were all sorts of unknowns and could be very punitive
(30:57):
actions taken against. You BUT i want to make it
very clear there is no such thing as a voluntary
choice to leave the. Service here we are being forced.
Out if there was a, choice we would continue to
serve because there have been these incredible investments IN. Us
(31:18):
we are the service members who not only are technical,
experts but we are training and developing future generations of.
Leaders so the impact is not just on, us it
is also on the units where all of a, sudden
there's going to be this hole where an incredibly, capable
qualified service member used to, be and the people around
(31:41):
see that, hole they have to work harder to fill
that because there's not a replacement that walks in off
the street and fills in where someone who is an
eighteen year senior non commissioned officer used to. Be so
what do they think will they want to continue? Serving
what about the people that we would have been trained
and developing to take our places and now we're just,
(32:03):
gone or the people considering military service where thirty percent
Of GEN z adults identify as member of THE lgbtq,
community will they think the military is an option for.
Them so this is a wide ranging, impact not just on,
us but on so many, others and will have important
implications to national security both today but those ripples grow
(32:27):
as we go further into the future without our.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Presence it's set up in a way to make it
as unpleasant and painful as possible for trans members of the.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Military can you explain sort of the nuances of.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
That the policy basically goes after us on. Character we
are basically being told that we are not, wanted we
should not exist in the public. Sphere WHAT i get
from that isn't just the question of, why because there's
no evidence to back any of the claim being made about,
(33:01):
us and you have at this point had multiple judges
rule that it is in fact our service record that
is EXHIBIT a as to why these claims are nothing but.
Animous BUT i think it also speaks to the incredible
resiliency of our transgender service members who have had these
things thrown at them for years and have continued to
(33:23):
lace up their boots and accomplish the. Mission but now
we are finally being ordered to take off those boots
and set them aside for the final. Time and that
hurts because this is our. Identity we do not walk
into a room and Say i'm trans or lead with
any of. That we walk into the room with our.
(33:44):
Uniform we lead with the accolades and the experiences and
the characteristics about us that that uniform. Represents that is
what people, see and we have been told that cannot
be you, anymore and that hurts because we.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
CARE i wonder if you could explain to us what
it's like right now when you talk to other. People
you guys are being led by someone who has not
a ton of military. Service we've seen that there's been
a lot of like the way that this administration has fired,
people it seems as if the people they fired have
(34:22):
all been black women or, trends and it strikes me
they transmit a lot that this is about. Readiness the
head of THE DoD does a lot of. PUSHUPS i
wonder if you could talk to us about how this
feels to be there when this is, happening and a
little bit about what you've.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
See, well it feels like there's a focus on short
term actions that be considered as wins in some way
by putting others, down, perhaps or focusing on things that
are not connected to any sort of long term. Strategy
(35:01):
this relentless focus on war fighting and how do we
fight better than anyone. Else in my, mind it's more
about focusing on how do we not go to, war
how do we be prepared in a, way how do
we have the friends and alliances that matter in a
(35:22):
way that no one would ever want to fight, us
that we would never have to get to that. Point
so that's one of the things THAT i wish we were,
doing is figuring out how do we lead in a
way that others are going to want to follow, us
that we're going to want to come together in some
sort of shared purpose and ensure that we never have to,
(35:45):
fight because it is not about being the, biggest baddest
bully on the. Block it's about having so many friends
that you're. Untouchable and so that feeling that we're changing
our focus can be really challenging to deal. With and
also there's a bit of a culture of silence that has,
(36:06):
emerged and that's really frightening as, well because our job
is to provide best military, advice and if the advice
or the only thing we can say is, yes that's
problematic as. Well and we have historically been able to
tap into multiple perspectives and build amazing solutions because we're
(36:28):
listening to. Everyone we're hearing from people of different, backgrounds different,
experiences and integrating that into the solution that we. Need
and if we are telling certain voices that you're not,
welcome that your perspective is not, warranted then we have a.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Problem the military figured out that if you were, diverse
you could get people to work together. Better AND i
wonder if you could explain why The trump administration's anti
diversity push is ACTUALLY i just it seems like an
anathema to what the military is. Now.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
WELL i can't explain why this focus on destruction of
the diversity that exists within our. Military WHAT i can
point to is the incredible record of diversity and the
value of inclusion in the. Military we can go all
the way back to The revolution and the first person
(37:26):
killed Was Christmas, addicts An African american of native descent as,
well someone who may not have been allowed in, uniform
but truly kicked off what became The American. Revolution you
had people brought over From europe who were. Gay baron Von,
steuben who trained THE Us army and whose Field manual
(37:49):
was basically in place for the first fifty years of the.
Country he was the one that Whipped washington's troops in
The shape And Valley. Forge in The Civil, war you
have a record of over there were four hundred people
who were assigned female at birth who put on The
union colors and. Fought so the evidence exists to the
(38:09):
very beginning of when the nation, called people, answered and
In World War one we tapped into The navajo code.
Talkers despite fifty years of, oppression they called and served
and gave us incredible value because of their unbreakable code
just from using their. Language they would go on to
(38:31):
serve again In World War. Two or you saw the
example of The Tuskegee airmen black officers who were spat
upon and refused entry into The Officers, club yet were
the greatest thing A b seventeen pilot could ever see
on their. Wing because of their skill meant that those
pilots had a much greater chance of returning. Home so
(38:52):
we have seen example after example of groups being integrated
into the military and despite the barrier in their, way
they added. Value and then when we took steps After
World War two to formally start removing some of those
barriers with executive orders beginning Like Truman's order To integrate The,
(39:12):
military which took six years to finally desegregate the last
army in, it we saw them thrive even. More but each,
time whether it was With African americans with lesbian's, gaze
bisexuals with, women or with women in, combat we saw
these arguments that they were somehow incapable or unwilling to.
(39:34):
Serve and those are the same arguments being recycled against
trans people today with the inclusion again of an argument
that is tried and, true that we are a disruption
to unit. Cohesion AND i want to offer two short
stories that kind of proved that false in my, case
AND i think are indicative of where our military is.
(39:54):
At WHEN i came out in twenty, sixteen on the
day that transpan ended for the first, TIME i had
an email that went out to my, colleagues and when
The secretary Of defense finished making the, ANNOUNCEMENT i hit
send on that email and THEN i ran away BECAUSE
i didn't know how my life was going to. CHANGE
i hopped on the elliptical. MACHINE i went nowhere faster
(40:16):
THAN i had ever gone anywhere in my. Life but
EVENTUALLY i walked back to my, office sat, down and
my colleagues walked over to me one by one and,
said it's an honor to serve with. You AND i
was absolutely. Floored that was the unit cohesion impact because
we had worked together and now they KNEW i could
be myself and rededicate myself to the mission and to
(40:38):
the relationships around. Us and at the very end of my,
career AS i KNEW i was going to be placed
on administrative leave AND i would go to meeting after
meeting where it was going to be my last time.
THERE i had one WHERE i was the last person
called on in that, meeting AND i gave one work
related update and THEN i, SAID i will be departing.
Shortly this is my last. Meeting i'm not sure who
(41:01):
my replacement is going to be because this is an unplanned.
Departure and the senior officer next to me, said why
where are you? Going AND i had to explain THAT
i didn't meet this administration standards for military excellence and.
Readiness and though it took a, moment reality dawned on
the senior leaders in that, room generals and admirals and senior,
(41:21):
civilians and the scene repeated one by. One they walked
over to me and with now the tinged by the
sadness of past, tense, said it's been an honor to
serve with. You AND i walked out of the room
with tears in my.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Eyes thank, you thank, you thank, you thank you for joining, us.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
And a Moment.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Jesse, cannon my jug.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Fast you know WHAT i think of WHEN i think
of WHAT i would want my hypothetical children. Around, Yeah,
tommy a gun that sprays more inaccurately so that they
could possibly get hit by. Crossfire which is Why texas
thinks it's probably a good idea that they make sought
off shotguns.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Legal the state is said to decriminize the ownership of
short barrel rifles and, shotguns never mind that it was
one of the guns used in the twenty Eighteen Santi bay. Shooting,
kman what this country needs are more, guns said no one.
Ever this state where if you're a woman and wants
(42:28):
to go to the, doctor they have some. Questions but
if you're a person who wants to own a, Firearm
go for, it.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Man this is where we.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Are we have just a complete fucking disaster putting more
guns into more hands in more sensitive. Places we need
to start arming the. Dogs every, man, woman AND k
nine needs to be. Armed they're arming the.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Dogs that's it for this episode Of Fast. Politics tune
in Every, Monday, Wednesday thursday And saturday to hear the
best minds and politics make sense of all this. Chaos
if you enjoy this, podcast please send it to a
friend and keep the conversation. Going thanks for. Listening
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
And Christin nom is alert and recovering after a trip
to the hospital for.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
An allergic reaction.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
We have such a great show for you today the
Al Franken Shows.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Al Franken stops by.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
To talk about trump ISM's cruelty affecting the way the
Senate operates. Then we'll talk to Colonel Briefram about Trump's
trans military ban and how it's affecting the military's confidence and.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The people who serve our country. But first the news'.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Somali the Supreme Court. I'm here to tell you it's
not woke. They have banned gender affirming care for transgender
youth in this case over at Tennessee law.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, so about half of the states have similar laws
on the books. These are laws that ban kids from
having hormone therapy and other treatments. The question is is
Tennessee simply regulating the practice of medicine or discriminating on
the basis of sex. Now, if it was discriminating on
(01:09):
the basis of sex, that would mean it was a
higher legal bar. I want to add again that and
this was a six' to three, ruling which means all
The conservatives ruled against and the liberals ruled. For we
still don't have an equal rights, amendment so technically discriminating
on the basis of sex is something that at least
(01:29):
theoretically not enshrined in our constitution. Anyway roberts rights in the,
majority of, course and the case carries with it the
weight of fear scientific and policy debates about this, safety,
efficiency and property of medical treatments in an evolving. Field
questions regarding the law's policy are appropriate left to the,
(01:51):
people their executive, representatives and the democratic. Process this Is
roberts pretending that he's not making a ruling when he's
really made. Ruling It's robert's, court, Right he's not the swing,
boat but he happens to be the Chief. JUSTICE i
am not surprised by this, ruling BUT i think it's
worth remembering.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
This is a very very very very far right.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Court.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Okay there are Six conservatives and three liberals on this.
Court and there's the Stolen scullio seat, right Which mitch
mcconald's stole For. Trump there is THE rbg seat Which
Donald trump And mitch mcconald's stole From Joe. Biden so
this should not be a surprise because this court is so.
(02:36):
Conservative but it's worth understanding who's going to be hurt by.
This children who feel they're in the wrong, body, right
kids who are already suffering so much are going to
be hurt by, This and who is going to be
helped by. This republicans who want to Use trant's children
(02:56):
as a wedge.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Issue it's really.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Despicable, So, MOLLY i feel like you, know each day
you wake, up you get, dressed you get a, coffee
you see another poorer economic. Indicator that's really. Sig we're
in a lot of trouble. Today we see the housing
market slump is getting a lot.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Worse, YEAH i mean look this. Again here we Are
trump does all of.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
These trump's been in office Since, january and during that
period he's trying to enact tax. Cuts it's still THE
bbb wildly, unpopular still sort of trying to make its
way through The. Senate but what he has done is
he's engaged in trade. War and this trade war has
been largely. Inflationary we'll talk about that, later but what
(03:40):
it also has done besides being, inflationary is has gotten
a lot of people. Nervous and when people get, nervous
they don't make big financial. Purchases and so what we
see here is builders broke around on home construction In
may at the slowest pace in five. Years, right we're
seeing less, building less, bye less. Turnover and what that
(04:02):
means is when people don't buy, houses they don't do
you know that money to realtors doesn't go there's tax
incentives when people sell. Houses all of this stuff means
that there'll be less money in the, economy less money for.
Building and by the, way one of the reasons why
they're not, building why are they not Building?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Jesse they don't build back? Better, no there's no economic. Confidence,
well and they don't know how much steal's going to, cost,
right they don't.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Know there's actually crazy headlines about that today.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Too you can't start a project if you don't know
how much things are going to. Cost it's.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
True And i've talked to other small business owners who
have to get things From. China they just literally can't
project their, profits so they can't hire fun. Stuff speaking
of other fun, stuff you know what doesn't inspire confidence
When trump just sits around and picks a fight With
california all, day and now he's, saying no more money
for your high speed, rail which admittedly a lot of people,
said really they were building.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That, yeah we didn't even know that there was a
high speed.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
Rail i'm going to technically, SAY i knew that they
kind of funded, IT i didn't think they were actually
doing anything with.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
It, yeah these large democratic projects that don't ultimately seem
to be going. Anywhere we should have high speed. Rail
it is crazy that we don't have high speed. Rail
and the fact that this that we've got millions is
this looks like. Billions i'm going to read you a.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Line the rail line aimed.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
At going From San francisco To Los angeles has gotten
six point nine billion dollars in federal money over the
last fifteen. Years this is not. GOOD i think that
there is something fucking sketchy, here and it's very annoying and,
infuriating AND i do not like, it not one little.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Bit, So, molly there's very rarely times WHERE i, go you,
know if that, happened that's WHAT i would really get
all my buddy and pack it up and Leave Dald
trump suggested that maybe he should run THE.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Fed, yeah few things would he be better at than
running THE. Fed this is, truppy but you, know and
we've heard him say stuff like. This he, says MAYBE
i should go to THE. Fed trump, said AM i
allowed to appoint myself at THE? FED i do a
much better job than these. People NOW i want you
(06:23):
all to come with. Me back to his business. Career
this is one of the very few people who managed
to lose money In New York city real. Estate so
the fact that he wants to now run THE. Fed, look,
MAN i can't tell you how Much trump two point zero.
Sucks real talk, Here, jesse just for a, minute, please
(06:45):
should you think this would? Suck BECAUSE i think it
sucks more THAN i thought it would.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
SUCK i think it's more like an apple and arge.
Thing it's just like the flavors of rot of the
fruit are a lot, tasting a lot different THAN i
thought they.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Would but it's so fucking. BAD i, mean AND i
just need to tell. You he's obviously not going to
point himself to THE. Fed this is him just doing
his trolley. Thing but the fact that he's even having
these conversations when my man is so cooked is just
everything you need to. Know Al franken is a former
(07:20):
senator and the host Of The Al Franken. Show welcome
back To Fast.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Politics well thanks thanks for having.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Me it's funny because we were texting yesterday AND i was,
like can we can.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Will you come on the? Pod And you're, like, well
what do you want to talk? About it is just every,
day you.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Know In trump one point, zero it was like there
were so many pieces written about Like, Trump Donald trump assignment.
Editor you know that we would be sort of in,
this you, know you'd sort of try to catch the.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Stories it used to be sort of like there was.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
A novelty to. It NOW i find myself just crushed
by the.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
NEWS i find it difficult. Too it, is especially if
you have to cover.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
It and it's like part of why he, does you,
know it's distraction from distraction from distraction from distraction what he?
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Does, yeah, okay well right now we got the immigration
stuff and we got a thing In israel.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Happening, Yes so when we were, TEXTING i, SAID i,
said what can we talk?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
About regime?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Change it struck me as the one thing that everyone
agreed both on the left and the. Right in the
twenty four cycle was no more golf, wars and now
it looks like we're on the precipice of yet another golf.
Speaker 5 (08:38):
War well hopefully. Not BUT i am for regime change In,
iran and that probably is the only way you get.
It but IF i was living In, Iran i'd be
reading for regime. Change but you, know the best thing
that can, HAPPEN i. GUESS i guess is that they
(08:59):
the J cpoa gets. Renewed you, Know trump is now
threatening to join israel, side right AND i think he
will if there If iran doesn't cowto in a couple of.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Days you have served with these. People you know what The,
senate what's happening in The senate right?
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Now i'm not SURE i know what's happening in The
senate right, now but going.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Well you sort of have a sense of how this all.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Works AND i have a theory of the case that
we don't have enough that we The american people don't
have enough of a sense of how these decisions are,
made how the legislature. Works so right now it's being
sort of written about like this is All Donald trump's
choice is this All Donald trump's?
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Choice and if, so.
Speaker 5 (09:45):
Why, WELL i think The republicans have basically said whatever you, want,
sir and SO i think it is his. Choice so
he's a very powerful. President he gets to decide what
whether we go to war or. Not that's WHAT i.
THINK i, MEAN i don't think That Lindsay, graham who
is a big hawk like On, ukraine has any influence on.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Him we're seeing visuals right OF ice going after. People in,
fact there was a recent video OF ice schoons taking
a guy who was a translator In. Afghanistan our last
Failed Middle Eastern, way which happened like eighteen months, AGO
i mean not even eighteen months, ago maybe two years,
(10:30):
ago was the you know it basically was.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
There they tried to take a translator who worked FOR,
us who saved our lives, yea In.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
Afghanistan there's a video of AN ice guy's trying to
arrest a and he, says But i'm a was a,
translator you. KNOW i, mean we're still dealing with the
wreckage of the most Recent but he must.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Be completely, LEGAL i would.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
THINK i mean a lot of these videos we see
these people are actually, legal but are being detained BY.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
ICE i, mean for, Example Brad, lander he.
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Was handcuffed, too, right.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, yeah detained for many hours.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Yesterday what's the play here besides Helping, democrats what's the
play Being ice just arresting random.
Speaker 5 (11:17):
People, Well i'm not sure it's even Helping democrats that.
MUCH i MEAN i think that it's AS i look
look at the, polling people are split on, this and
it splits the long party. Lines So i'm not sure
it helps, us even as egregious as it all.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
IS i think yesterday to Watch Governor hokeel go into
And lander actually gave an interview last night On Chris
hayes where you talked about how they let him out
When hokeel, Came LIKE i do think people DON'T i,
mean the idea that they're just arresting. Electeds, now you
(11:55):
can be a low frequency, voter but you don't want
like once they start arresting. PEOPLE i, mean it doesn't
even look like you, know you could say, OKAY i
don't work in a, field but you're not going to be, Like,
Okay i'm not this second highest elected official In New,
york so this will never happen.
Speaker 5 (12:13):
Or a centator from you, know the senior centator From.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
California, California, yeah which was. RIDICULOUS i mean it is
a sea.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Change to have videos of electeds being arrested like that
is a profound.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
Sea can two in how many, days you, know four
days or something like. That, yeah, yeah it is a sea.
Change it's but ubly interested to see if we see another.
One is it.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Like are we sleep? WALKING i, mean obviously this is.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
AUTHORITARIANISM i MEAN i don't think there's any you, know
when they start arresting politicians who are from the other.
PARTY i, mean isn't this like what we see in
countries that we. STUDY i, mean isn't that what this?
Speaker 5 (13:02):
Is, WELL i don't. KNOW i mean, this you, know
you can say honest mistake in both. CASES i mean
it's hard to buy in the case of the, senator
but you, KNOW i mean he starts getting pushed. OUT
i don't know what she saw and what she. Heard
it was absolutely. Egregious BUT i don't know if this
(13:26):
is going to be a.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
TREND i really, don't, RIGHT i wonder why we have
another police force that wears?
Speaker 5 (13:34):
Masks, well why do they wear a? MASK i, mean
these are the ones that are apprehending what they say
are undocumented. People, yes it's.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Like a kind of like. There you, know it's funny
because you think about.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
Seen beforeforce in our. COUNTRY i don't remember this at.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
All there have been times In american life where we've,
had you, know AN fb that was out of, control
like the j AND gi THAT fbi was out of.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Control. Right we've had times when.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
Law, enforcement the federal government has done really sketchy.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
STUFF i, mean change.
Speaker 5 (14:15):
On various people Like Martin Luther king.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Citizens, Yeah Martin Luther, King that's WHAT i was thinking.
About but this is sort of more. Blatant and, then you,
know one of the things THAT i wonder about so
much Is trump defenders will say he doesn't really mean,
that it's not really this, right and then he'll co
and be, like, NO i really want to Detain. Democrats
(14:39):
like one of my favorite things he did this he
said they should Arrest remember they should arrest governor knew.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Something, yes because he's a very bad.
Speaker 5 (14:48):
Governor, yeah well that's the, charge, right you, know very bad.
Governor and then but THEN i would go to you,
know a judge who would be the the district court,
judge and he would reverse it and then it would
did appeal, right go work up to the spring court
(15:11):
and there'd be on that. ONE i don't, know a
six to three.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
VOTE i want to talk to you About minnesota because
you are A. Minnesotan is that? RIGHT i?
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Am this has been a, horrible horrible week For.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Minnesota you had a state representative Named Melissa, hortman Who
i'm sure you.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
KNOW i know.
Speaker 5 (15:31):
HER i know she's a, great an amazing. PERSON i
campaigned around the state with. Her she was a great,
speaker she got an incredible amount. Done she was a
no nonsense, speaker but also just a person with incredible
heart and. Humor and couldn't talk about a better person
(15:51):
Than Melissa. Hortman and it is an absolute tragedy that
she and her husband and The hoffmans don't understand how they.
RECOVERED i heard they had nine shots in them each
or something like. That, yeah well it was accomplished an incredible.
Amount in two thousand and, three they had they had a.
Trifecta they passed an amazing amount of great, stuff like
(16:15):
free college for people who can't afford. It it's going
to be breakfast and lunch for all kids In. Minnesota every. Kid,
yeah you know that kind of. Thing one hundred percent
renewable energy by twenty and. Forty it was her leadership
and the governor and that made it able to go
through if you knew. Her this is just an incredible
(16:37):
law of personal. Loss it's hard to believe that it's.
Happened her kids wrote. Something did you see?
Speaker 2 (16:44):
This?
Speaker 5 (16:45):
No, well her kids wrote something and they said what
you could do to honor their, Parents and this is
just part of what they. Wrote but they, said plant a.
Tree had a, dog and their, dog Their Golden, retriever
was killed. Too the guy killed their.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Dog it was being trained as a service dog to blind.
People so they killed the service.
Speaker 1 (17:09):
DOG i killed the service.
Speaker 5 (17:10):
Dog visit a local park and make use of their,
amenities especially a bike. Trail bake, something read For mark
that's their. Dad take From melissa and share it with with.
Someone try a new hobby and enjoy learning. Something stand
for what you, believe especially at that thing is justice and.
Peace that's her.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Kids so they got murdered because she was successful at
passing things that help.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
People.
Speaker 5 (17:40):
Yeah, Absolutely and The Mike lee joke or whatever that
was supposed to. Be this is what happens When marxists
don't get their. Way it was an attempt to say
that they were killed from the, left which is just.
EVIL i can't. COULDN'T i can't believe that this guy
(18:01):
voted For his roommate said he voted For. Trump he,
was you, know anti. Abortion And Mike lee is trying
to do a one a joke in the wake of this,
thing and then two something to try to misdirect people
is who the killer.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Was So Tina smith takes him, aside and we don't
know what she, says but we see a photo of
her just what looks like really talking to. Him he
does not, apologize because this is. Magas he can't, apologize
but he does delete the tweets and then he starts
(18:42):
running away from camera crew when they ask, him what
do you think this?
Speaker 1 (18:48):
IS i, Mean Mike lee is not a, Podcaster he's a.
SENATOR i, mean what do you, think like you know
a lot of these.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
PEOPLE i Know.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
MIKE i Know, mike and he thinks of himself was a.
Whit he really screwed up, HERE i, mean he really screwed.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Up and.
Speaker 5 (19:05):
That's WHY i did WHAT i saw that footage of
him not talking to the, reporter AND i don't blame.
Them what he did was so embarrassing and this is
just like and completely in service of an evil. Intent
SO i just DON'T i don't get, it you, know
(19:27):
is not.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Stupid one of the things THAT i was struck by
is when he deleted the. Tweets even though he didn't
apologize and he didn't say, anything and he didn't do
what he really should have, done there is a sense
that he definitely understood this was a loser for, him
right that being that these two people being murdered in
(19:50):
their beds and then these other people being almost, murdered
that maybe this was in fact the bridge too. Far
we have lived with political violence now since we are
in this new. NORMAL i, mean this is something we
had in the sixties and it's sort of back. NOW
(20:10):
i want so badly to be one of the people
who helped shut this, down who helped stop this political.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Violence AND i just. Wonder you've been in so many
worlds like comedy and, government AND i wonder what you
think the sort of the way to do it.
Speaker 5 (20:28):
IS i WISH i had an answer for. You there
doesn't seem to be. ONE i don't know how to
stop this. Violence these are people who ARE i, think
have gone over the edge in most. CASES i don't
know why the guy who shot At trump did, that
what was going on with that with? Him and this
IS i don't know how you stop THESE i WISH i.
(20:51):
DID i WISH i had had a good answer for.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
YOU i think that a lot of people In minnesota
understand that this is so dangerous and scary that it
needs to be talked about as what it, is, right which,
is you, know this incredible red line that has been
crossed and needs to not be crossed. Again you, Know
minnesota has it's just a state where there's a lot of,
(21:13):
Religion there's a lot of you, know it's just a
lot Of.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
This guy evidently was a bit of a religious.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Freak, YEAH i just wonder like how you feel about
this and how and just how you've first reacted to,
this and just you, know how politics has shifted and
what your take on this.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
Is my take Is i'm sure what the take of
most people, is which is this shit is. Happening AND
i do Blame trump to a degree for basically saying
that the violence is, okay and he did that by
pardoning all the people who were In january, sixth and
(21:56):
there are people who died because Of january sixth And
Capital police right who died and then who committed suicide
because what happened to. Them AND i think that the
question isn't you, know Does trump deserve some responsibility? HERE
(22:19):
i think it's, yes it's just to what extent right
of an atmosphere of.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Violence Colonel breenfram is An american military, officer astronautical, engineer
and transgender rights. Activist welcome to Vast, Politics Colonel, Fram
thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Because you work at THE. DoD give us your.
Speaker 4 (22:43):
Disclaimer, Yeah i'm joining you today in my personal, capacity
and my views do not necessarily reflect those of The
department Of defense or The United states.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Government right, now tell me what your title, is what you,
do and a little bit about.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
That so THOUGH i have been played based on administrative
leave at this point pending, SEPARATION i remain a active
duty colonel in The United States Space, force and in
my final, ASSIGNMENT i was The director Of Requirements integration
for The Space. Force what that means is my team
AND i were the ones that defined the capabilities that
(23:19):
we would need, five, ten twenty years in the future
to ensure that we stay ahead of our adversaries and
should conflict extend into, space that we were prepared to.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Win space force is the hardest of the branches to get.
Into so you obviously had a pretty impressive military. CAREER
i would love you to just talk about. That how
you got into the, military how you got. Here you're
A i don't want to get this, wrong but you're
technically a rocket. Scientist explain to us what you do
and just sort of how you got.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Here, sure so my career at in the three minute.
NUTSHELL i am an astronautical engineer by, education or colloquially
a rocket. SCIENTIST i had no intention of joining the
military WHEN i grew, up THOUGH i did want to
be an aerospace. ENGINEER i had been inspired By Star.
TREK i wanted to Be Jordie LaForge and make the
(24:11):
warp engines go help humanity expand into the. Stars BUT
i graduated in two thousand and one and AS i
was looking for, jobs we were, attacked and that was
one of the few moments in my life where everything
changed in a, heartbeat AND i wanted to give. BACK
i wanted to be part of something greater than myself
and defend the freedoms and the opportunities That i'd been
(24:33):
given AND i enjoyed to make sure they were there
for future. Generations despite, THAT i knew there was something
THAT i was going to have to hide about myself
in order to. Serve and that's a burden on an.
Individual you can be good at your, job you can
be great at your, job but you can never be
your best if you're paying that mental tax to protect your.
(24:54):
Identity BUT i had an amazing career working on technology
element programs a number of. SATELLITES i had two opportunities
to take technology right from the laboratory to the battlefield
early in my career WHEN i deployed To iraq to
do counter ied, detection and then later in my career
(25:14):
WHEN i did counter drone. Work and that's in addition
to all the cool space Programs i've worked, on like missile,
warning launch, vehicles communications. Intelligence it's been an incredible, ride
and to have ended up in The Space force was
like a dream come. True when they finally let the engineers,
in it felt like a marriage. Proposal WHEN i was
(25:36):
asked to join AND i was, like, yes, yes a thousand. Times,
yes this is WHERE i.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
BELONG i want to point this out BECAUSE i feel
like civil. Servants you're not a civil servant, obviously but
people work for the government have been so disparaged by
THE doge. Crew but technically you could make a lot
more money just working in like, plastics, RIGHT i, mean
in the private.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Sector can you explain to us why you have a
skill set that's very in.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
Demand, yeah a lot of members of the military can
make far more on the. Outside but there is something
that keeps us. In it is that element of, service
that element of. Character what do we care about as
well as the bonds we've formed with the people around,
us who we've served with for, decades that matter so
deeply to mission accomplishment and what we believe the military
(26:24):
provides for this. Country but we've been given education, clearances
specialized skills that are incredibly valuable on the, outside and
you're right that many of us could make, two three
or more times as much should we choose to leave
and serve in the private. Sector but that's not what
(26:45):
keeps us. Serving we are not motivated by those. Things
we have an oath that we swore to care about
and defend the ideals embedded in The, constitution and that
matters to.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Us The trump administration has gone to war with trans.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
People is really all they care about is being obsessed
with trans. People they think it's a political winner for
them or. Whatever who even knows what the thinking is.
There for whatever, reason they are extremely mad at trans.
People you are, trans you are in the. Military this
is a group that they are obsessed. With so tell
(27:22):
us how they've targeted.
Speaker 4 (27:23):
You, well there was an executive order soon after this
administration came in Called Prioritizing Military excellence And, readiness and
that executive order classified us as, undisciplined dishonorable liars who
lack the humility required for military. Service and while the
attack on our character was certainly, THERE i have to
(27:45):
laugh a little bit about, that particularly when you say
you lack the humility. REQUIRED i was not aware that
was a key piece of the military. Ethos AND i
do ask have they ever met a, pilot because in
our military we are filled with, pilots and the pilots
are going to tell you not only that they're a
pilot in the first two minutes you talk with, them
but that they are the greatest, pilot and that is
(28:08):
kind of necessary for those of us who are going
to be on the front, lines who are going to
launch themselves into the air in this advanced equipment that
they are at the controls. Of you have to have
a little bit of that, confidence sometimes even bordering on,
arrogance that you can do this really hard. Thing and
that's what trans people have been asked to do in the,
(28:31):
military do the hard. Things and if trans people can
thrive in that kind of, environment doing the most demanding
missions our nation has to, offer it is proof that
we belong. Everywhere and we have had nearly a decade
now of trans people serving openly accomplishing their wartime, missions
(28:53):
deployed around the world and here at home all the,
time and there is no evidence whatsoever that we have
failed at any of. That we meet or exceed standards.
Consistently AND i think.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
It's important to mention that to be in The Space,
FORCE i, mean how many people are even in The Space,
FORCE i, mean just talk us through how rigorous a
process that.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Is, yeah we have about ten thousand people in uniform
in The Space, force so we are, tiny and we
have a lot of people that would love to serve
in this highly, technical highly capable, service and so have
had the luxury of having far more people want to
be in The Space force than we have spots. Available
(29:36):
so for my career, field for the engineers that wanted
to transfer into The Space force at the, beginning they
held a board and were allowed to be very selective
with who was brought over into the. Service and so
here may be a bit of my touch lack of
humility in THAT i think we are incredibly talented, people
(29:58):
and the folks THAT i have had the honor of
serving with in The Space force are the most incredible
PEOPLE i have ever. Met they are so, talented so,
smart so welcoming the fact that we've built this truly
twenty first century military culture that lets everyone be their
best and get after that mission we have to secure
(30:19):
our nation's interests in from and to space is such
a joy to be a part of because we are
doing incredible things with limited. Resources Incredibly, WELL i.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
Want you explain where you are right, now What trump
has done to trand service.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Members, yeah we are all being forced. Out these are
thousands and thousands of service members who were told you
either had to voluntarily identify yourself and request separation or,
retirement or you would enter this involuntary phase where there
were all sorts of unknowns and could be very punitive
(30:57):
actions taken against. You BUT i want to make it
very clear there is no such thing as a voluntary
choice to leave the. Service here we are being forced.
Out if there was a, choice we would continue to
serve because there have been these incredible investments IN. Us
(31:18):
we are the service members who not only are technical,
experts but we are training and developing future generations of.
Leaders so the impact is not just on, us it
is also on the units where all of a, sudden
there's going to be this hole where an incredibly, capable
qualified service member used to, be and the people around
(31:41):
see that, hole they have to work harder to fill
that because there's not a replacement that walks in off
the street and fills in where someone who is an
eighteen year senior non commissioned officer used to. Be so
what do they think will they want to continue? Serving
what about the people that we would have been trained
and developing to take our places and now we're just,
(32:03):
gone or the people considering military service where thirty percent
Of GEN z adults identify as member of THE lgbtq,
community will they think the military is an option for.
Them so this is a wide ranging, impact not just on,
us but on so many, others and will have important
implications to national security both today but those ripples grow
(32:27):
as we go further into the future without our.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Presence it's set up in a way to make it
as unpleasant and painful as possible for trans members of the.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Military can you explain sort of the nuances of.
Speaker 4 (32:40):
That the policy basically goes after us on. Character we
are basically being told that we are not, wanted we
should not exist in the public. Sphere WHAT i get
from that isn't just the question of, why because there's
no evidence to back any of the claim being made about,
(33:01):
us and you have at this point had multiple judges
rule that it is in fact our service record that
is EXHIBIT a as to why these claims are nothing but.
Animous BUT i think it also speaks to the incredible
resiliency of our transgender service members who have had these
things thrown at them for years and have continued to
(33:23):
lace up their boots and accomplish the. Mission but now
we are finally being ordered to take off those boots
and set them aside for the final. Time and that
hurts because this is our. Identity we do not walk
into a room and Say i'm trans or lead with
any of. That we walk into the room with our.
(33:44):
Uniform we lead with the accolades and the experiences and
the characteristics about us that that uniform. Represents that is
what people, see and we have been told that cannot
be you, anymore and that hurts because we.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
CARE i wonder if you could explain to us what
it's like right now when you talk to other. People
you guys are being led by someone who has not
a ton of military. Service we've seen that there's been
a lot of like the way that this administration has fired,
people it seems as if the people they fired have
(34:22):
all been black women or, trends and it strikes me
they transmit a lot that this is about. Readiness the
head of THE DoD does a lot of. PUSHUPS i
wonder if you could talk to us about how this
feels to be there when this is, happening and a
little bit about what you've.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
See, well it feels like there's a focus on short
term actions that be considered as wins in some way
by putting others, down, perhaps or focusing on things that
are not connected to any sort of long term. Strategy
(35:01):
this relentless focus on war fighting and how do we
fight better than anyone. Else in my, mind it's more
about focusing on how do we not go to, war
how do we be prepared in a, way how do
we have the friends and alliances that matter in a
(35:22):
way that no one would ever want to fight, us
that we would never have to get to that. Point
so that's one of the things THAT i wish we were,
doing is figuring out how do we lead in a
way that others are going to want to follow, us
that we're going to want to come together in some
sort of shared purpose and ensure that we never have to,
(35:45):
fight because it is not about being the, biggest baddest
bully on the. Block it's about having so many friends
that you're. Untouchable and so that feeling that we're changing
our focus can be really challenging to deal. With and
also there's a bit of a culture of silence that has,
(36:06):
emerged and that's really frightening as, well because our job
is to provide best military, advice and if the advice
or the only thing we can say is, yes that's
problematic as. Well and we have historically been able to
tap into multiple perspectives and build amazing solutions because we're
(36:28):
listening to. Everyone we're hearing from people of different, backgrounds different,
experiences and integrating that into the solution that we. Need
and if we are telling certain voices that you're not,
welcome that your perspective is not, warranted then we have a.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
Problem the military figured out that if you were, diverse
you could get people to work together. Better AND i
wonder if you could explain why The trump administration's anti
diversity push is ACTUALLY i just it seems like an
anathema to what the military is. Now.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
WELL i can't explain why this focus on destruction of
the diversity that exists within our. Military WHAT i can
point to is the incredible record of diversity and the
value of inclusion in the. Military we can go all
the way back to The revolution and the first person
(37:26):
killed Was Christmas, addicts An African american of native descent as,
well someone who may not have been allowed in, uniform
but truly kicked off what became The American. Revolution you
had people brought over From europe who were. Gay baron Von,
steuben who trained THE Us army and whose Field manual
(37:49):
was basically in place for the first fifty years of the.
Country he was the one that Whipped washington's troops in
The shape And Valley. Forge in The Civil, war you
have a record of over there were four hundred people
who were assigned female at birth who put on The
union colors and. Fought so the evidence exists to the
(38:09):
very beginning of when the nation, called people, answered and
In World War one we tapped into The navajo code.
Talkers despite fifty years of, oppression they called and served
and gave us incredible value because of their unbreakable code
just from using their. Language they would go on to
(38:31):
serve again In World War. Two or you saw the
example of The Tuskegee airmen black officers who were spat
upon and refused entry into The Officers, club yet were
the greatest thing A b seventeen pilot could ever see
on their. Wing because of their skill meant that those
pilots had a much greater chance of returning. Home so
(38:52):
we have seen example after example of groups being integrated
into the military and despite the barrier in their, way
they added. Value and then when we took steps After
World War two to formally start removing some of those
barriers with executive orders beginning Like Truman's order To integrate The,
(39:12):
military which took six years to finally desegregate the last
army in, it we saw them thrive even. More but each,
time whether it was With African americans with lesbian's, gaze
bisexuals with, women or with women in, combat we saw
these arguments that they were somehow incapable or unwilling to.
(39:34):
Serve and those are the same arguments being recycled against
trans people today with the inclusion again of an argument
that is tried and, true that we are a disruption
to unit. Cohesion AND i want to offer two short
stories that kind of proved that false in my, case
AND i think are indicative of where our military is.
(39:54):
At WHEN i came out in twenty, sixteen on the
day that transpan ended for the first, TIME i had
an email that went out to my, colleagues and when
The secretary Of defense finished making the, ANNOUNCEMENT i hit
send on that email and THEN i ran away BECAUSE
i didn't know how my life was going to. CHANGE
i hopped on the elliptical. MACHINE i went nowhere faster
(40:16):
THAN i had ever gone anywhere in my. Life but
EVENTUALLY i walked back to my, office sat, down and
my colleagues walked over to me one by one and,
said it's an honor to serve with. You AND i
was absolutely. Floored that was the unit cohesion impact because
we had worked together and now they KNEW i could
be myself and rededicate myself to the mission and to
(40:38):
the relationships around. Us and at the very end of my,
career AS i KNEW i was going to be placed
on administrative leave AND i would go to meeting after
meeting where it was going to be my last time.
THERE i had one WHERE i was the last person
called on in that, meeting AND i gave one work
related update and THEN i, SAID i will be departing.
Shortly this is my last. Meeting i'm not sure who
(41:01):
my replacement is going to be because this is an unplanned.
Departure and the senior officer next to me, said why
where are you? Going AND i had to explain THAT
i didn't meet this administration standards for military excellence and.
Readiness and though it took a, moment reality dawned on
the senior leaders in that, room generals and admirals and senior,
(41:21):
civilians and the scene repeated one by. One they walked
over to me and with now the tinged by the
sadness of past, tense, said it's been an honor to
serve with. You AND i walked out of the room
with tears in my.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Eyes thank, you thank, you thank, you thank you for joining, us.
Speaker 4 (41:40):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (41:42):
And a Moment.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Jesse, cannon my jug.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Fast you know WHAT i think of WHEN i think
of WHAT i would want my hypothetical children. Around, Yeah,
tommy a gun that sprays more inaccurately so that they
could possibly get hit by. Crossfire which is Why texas
thinks it's probably a good idea that they make sought
off shotguns.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Legal the state is said to decriminize the ownership of
short barrel rifles and, shotguns never mind that it was
one of the guns used in the twenty Eighteen Santi bay. Shooting,
kman what this country needs are more, guns said no one.
Ever this state where if you're a woman and wants
(42:28):
to go to the, doctor they have some. Questions but
if you're a person who wants to own a, Firearm
go for, it.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Man this is where we.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
Are we have just a complete fucking disaster putting more
guns into more hands in more sensitive. Places we need
to start arming the. Dogs every, man, woman AND k
nine needs to be. Armed they're arming the.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Dogs that's it for this episode Of Fast. Politics tune
in Every, Monday, Wednesday thursday And saturday to hear the
best minds and politics make sense of all this. Chaos
if you enjoy this, podcast please send it to a
friend and keep the conversation. Going thanks for. Listening
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
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