October 16, 2025 • 47 mins
MSNBC’s Alex Wagner examines how Trump is overplaying his hand on immigration.
Then Congressman Brendan Boyle details how Republicans are losing the messaging war over the government shutdown.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds. And Scott Besson says he's considering doubling
the twenty billion dollars of aid to Argentina. Okay, this
is what happens when you have a cryptocer say we
have such a great show for you. Today, MSNBC's own
(00:22):
Alex Wagner stops by to talk about Trump overplaying his
hand on immigration. Then we'll talk to Congressman Brendan Boyle
about how the Republicans are losing the messaging war on
the government jut down. But first the news.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Somalia Duloitte has done a study. They've taken the temperature
on consumers and I'm going to shock you. After all
the stupid policies that Trump has been doing for a
whole nine months, you know, we get the worst consumer
confidence heading into the big hiring season of the holiday season,
and the economies look at bet.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
The consumers have no common confidence. I don't know why
that twenty or forty billion dollar bill out to Argentina
should make everyone feel confident.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I really felt a lot of confidence as I last night,
watched an interview with the farmer talking about how they're
funding his competitors.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, I feel confident that this is going to be
a fucking disaster. So again, you remember, Donald Trump tends
to fire anyone who tells him bad news. So I
don't know, maybe he'll never see this. But consumers plan
to spend about ten percent less than last year. Seventy
seven percent expect higher prices. The other twenty three percent
(01:36):
are magged out on crack. Gen Z expects to spend
thirty four percent less. Well, millennials expect to cut thirteen percent,
and boomers, those boomers who love Trump, those guys, they're
going to spend about six percent less. Yes, Generation X,
they're bucking the trend by spending a little more. President
(01:59):
Trump's two reps are on everything because he is a lunatic,
and so we're seeing, you know, rules on everything, apparel,
holiday decorps, toys. Remember when Donald Trump last year said
you might only get two dollars instead of ten dollars.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, I'm thinking about when like let Nick, all of
them were saying, just you wait and see in six
months of or on March, and oh wait, it's been
more than six months. Oh fuck, they will lied to
me again.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow, ninety deals in ninety days and that actually translated
to none or three. I don't know, maybe whatever. It's
all very lucy goosey here, except that everything costs a
lot more. But it's all so that Donald Trump can
have a slush fund that he can use for whatever,
(02:50):
because we have moved into a world with a government
that no longer follows the law. Thanks everyone, Smiley.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
While I'm saying this next part, you may go is
mine Bill Murray am I in the movie groundhog Day?
And I will say, no, you are not. It's just
that the same thing keeps happening because we have the
most reckless, moronic government possible. And yeah, the AHHS has
now had to recall the wad Off health statistics staff
that they fired in the Friday Night massacre last week,
(03:18):
and the rehirings will continue until morale improves.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I want to point out part of when we looked
at how Elon Mush was costing us all these tax dollars,
this is why he was going to say this money
because you're firing people and then you're rehiring them, so
you have to pay for severns or you have to
pay to retrain people, or you have to pay to
re onboard them. You'll remember Elon mush who fired like
(03:45):
everyone in the world, and you fired people like the
people who predict the hurricane, who do this, who do that?
So now we have AHHS. I actually am happy that
they're rehiring the statistics, the statistic staff, because I've seen
Trump also fire people who know stuff and then never
rehire them, like the Bureau of Labor and pharm Statistics
(04:07):
or put in a trumper. So at least they're rehiring
the people. But yeah, every time you fire someone because
you're a Russ Vaught and you want to stick it
to the libs, taxpayers have to pay for that. By
the way, in case you're wondering, we're paying as taxpayers.
We're paying for a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Baby, do you think this is a democratic agency? The
Health Statistics. I just can't keep track of which one's
a democratic agency.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, those are libtards right there, and the Bureau of
Labors they're the lib tardiest.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, I do have interesting news on this front, because
a judge has blocked mister Vaught from firing federal workers
during the government shutdown for nap.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, that judge, he's going to alligate or alcatraz.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I heard Jack pisobiak say say something about that over
the weekend.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Judge blocks Trump from firing federal workers during government shut
down for now. You know why because it's not legal.
So much of this is not legal. San Francisco US
District Court Judge, She's definitely going to the Hague or
the She's going to Gizmo. Jack pisobiac is going to
send her to Getmo.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
That's what he was saying over the weekend when he
was rallying for the new Jersey governor candidate for the Republicans.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, should a rally. So, look, I think it's important
to remember that so much of this they're doing is illegal,
im moral. If you stick around long enough, all of
this will ultimately be made illegal in court. The question
is when.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, so, Molly, I want to take you back in time.
I want to see how your long term memory is.
I going to say a name. Do you remember this person?
Jack Smith?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
All I can tell you is I don't want to
complain about Merrik Arlind, But since you've opened the door
to this Joe Biden put someone in the job who
was the worst possible person for the fucking job, and
that person very cautious and lawyer guy. Put another guy,
we got Jacksmith from Public Integrity. He was going to
(06:07):
solve it. Well, you know this.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Guy, one might say, the Mueller of his day.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
The Mueller. Yeah, another disappointing figure from American life. So
one of the difference between the Biden and Trump case
is that the obstructive conduct in the case that I investigated.
To prove illegal possession of classified documents, you need to
show this is like a Jacksmith quote. Okay, you need
to show that the defendant possessed the documents wilfully. That
(06:33):
means Trump knew what he was doing was wrong. Smith
said in a sit down at University College London, we
had tons of evidence of wilfulness. Oh really, you don't
fucking say.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So let's spell this out though, for those who are
not speaking that wonderful jargon of legal eese. He's saying
that mister Trump knowingly just took those documents, whereas Joe Biden, well.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
My man knew what he was doing was illegal.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
That's what we're saying here.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
That's what we're saying, and you'll be shocked to hear that.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
The speech comes as we're seeing that there's threats that
mister Trump is going to do to Jack Smith what
he has done to Leticia James, mister James comy, and
he's going to go after him next.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I think that seems very likely. But also that's and
we're going to fight. We're all going to fight, and
he's going to fight. But it's important to realize like
Smith had proof of obstruction, he had proof that Trump
knew what he was doing was illegal, and I think
that is certainly important.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, that's important.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Alex Wagner is a senior political analyst and ms NBC
and the host of Runaway Country on Crooket Media. Hi,
I'm excited to be joined by the host of the
upcoming Runaway Country podcast from Crookeet Media.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Thank you, Molly. It's a delight to be here with you.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Well, I'm happy to have you.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
You're like back on the road, and that I mean
ish ish I'm talking to people across the country.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
Yeah, but I'm not traveling like I was for other
projects I have engaged in the last year or two,
four or five.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
But it is like a pretty fucked up moment in
the country in a way, because so my friend in Chicago,
you know who's who is working in the legislature, sent
me these these Instagram photos last night from the Chicago
Sun Times, and she, you know she and I think
she's very, very smart, and I have a lot of
(08:38):
respect for she works in the Governor's office. And so
I'm always like, what's going on with you guys, And
She's like, I can't say anything that explains more than
these photos.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Yeah, so much of what's happening right now, for saw,
there's so much chaos happening, and it's all unfolding in
parallel and also in the abstract, right, Like we talk
about masked ice agents, and sometimes a video goes viral
and you see some violence or you see a confrontation,
or we talk about you know, tariffs and like farmers
sitting with a whole bunch of soybeans, like with no
(09:08):
market to sell it at. But like the actual lived
experience of that is so radically different. And I I,
as a journalist, have I always like go talking to
people in the center of the story, right, But I
just feel like, particularly at this moment, there are these visceral,
deeply emotional, riviting stories that we're missing because we're not
getting at like the kind of the marrow of it all.
(09:30):
We're not talking to the people, we don't have characters,
we're not thinking about the human the humanity.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
Of it all.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Right, as all this insanity plays out, part of it
is like we are digesting it also quickly that there
hasn't been I think, like the time to do it.
But you know, on new podcast, the whole goal is
to really give you characters and something you know that
resonates in your heart and mind to hold on too
when you think about when you read the next headline, right,
(09:57):
and some of these people are going to be recurring,
and we're talking to local journalists, we're expending our network
of kind of people who are going to help report
it out. It's like it's very exciting and also daunting
because they're so it's really hard to.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Know where to even begin.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
And by the way, we're not just talking to victims
of you know, Trump administration policies. We're also talking to
people who are maybe they're National Guard troops stationed at
a blue city or you know, they're still Trump supporters
in the middle of economic upheaval. But the idea is
to just kind of put some real like faces with
these these words that we talk about a lot, and
(10:33):
in the same way that your friend is like nothing
captures it the same way this photo does. Like we
there's I think there's a collective numbness that's set in
a little bit, and it's that we're trying to get
back to the sort of visceral understanding of what we're
going through as a country.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
But when you look at these photos of like these
National Guard troops with these kids, like yes, I'm sure
you've seen these photos, like yes, you know, young black
kid you know, looks like my cousin, you know, curly
hair being like thrown on the ground. Yeah, by this,
you know, member of the National Guard who's probably not
(11:06):
trained for this because Trump's paramilitary organization have you know,
has been put together in like three months by Christy Nome,
you know, noted dog killer Christie Nome, Like I just
dog assassin, right. I wonder like what the thing I
think a lot about is like Trump believes, at least
(11:27):
his administration believes these photos help him, Right, That's why
they're traveling around with camera crews and lighting, et cetera. Yeah,
And Fritzker, who I think is very smart, believes that
if you document everything, eventually the American people will see
this and be like, this is not who we are. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
And and Trump's wrong to think that he has American
public support on this, right, which is why you have
like Joe Rogan coming out and like you have Marjorie
Taylor Green coming out.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Right.
Speaker 6 (11:55):
People see this unfolding in their communities and it doesn't
I mean, and his poll numbers on immigration are not good.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Right, he's there on.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
The economy, right, and like this is not some I mean,
it is a curiosity why Democrats have not felt like
they can occupy the moral high ground on this more
vociferously and aggressively, because people don't like this.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
This is not what they ask for.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Although although the signs at the RNC were like mass
deportations now, I do not think the American public truly
comprehended or contemplated the notion that there would be as
you say, Trump's paramilitary organization led by Christy Nome, would
be terrorizing communities whether they're even there or not. Right, Like,
there's so much fear in black and brown communities. My mother,
(12:42):
who is a naturalized American citizen has been here for
sixty years, is like, I don't feel comfortable driving by
myself anymore. She lives in a swing district, and it's like,
this is like, this isn't what we bargained for when
we signed up for America.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Right, No, but I think we all thought this is
where this When I saw those signs, I was like,
these people don't don't know what this is going to be, absolutely,
but we know, like we know from history, Yes, what
happens when you Mexicans. That's what I was actually thinking about.
It always sweeps up the people who are citizens too.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
Yes, because when you're just targeting people racially and you
live in a racially diverse country, you're going to sweep
up a bunch of people that are American citizens. And
I think the fact that they're doing so with the
impromonte of the Supreme Court is like another level of nefarious, pernicious,
like distressing developments that we could talk about at another time,
but call them Kavanaugh stops.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, exactly, sorry, gone, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yes, Kavanaugh stops.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
I mean I just yeah, I think I think there
were and I think, you know, the videos that you
talk about are made for the Trump administration is doing
with you know, the ride alongs and doctor Phil and
whatever the fuck else is, sorry, whatever the hell else is,
But that stuff is made for the people with the
mass deportation signs now mass people occasions now assign And
(14:01):
the problem for Trump is that's those people are already
fired up. They've been fired up, Like racism is Warren
proudly and as like a badge of honor, and like
that's not also America, Like there is a part of
his magabase that is really into this, but that is
not the American public writ large. And that's where you
know they're in real trouble.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I think on this. In addition, I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But I also killing the economy.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
I would also just say there is and this is
where I would love to see more in terms of
organization and engagement independent of Trump, Like we can't let
this happen to our fellow citizens, Like this just can't
be something we abide. And you know, I think the
organization there's like a big protest coming up this weekend,
but it is a thing that you really have to
(14:48):
keep talking about because people should be indignant about this
that it's happening in our country. Like, even setting aside
whether it's going to strew Trump Trump or not, it's
just like we can't live in this. We are breaking
the American social compact when we allow people who look
a certain way to be targeted systematically by the government
(15:10):
and terrorized.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Like that's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, I think you have a really good point that
it's politically horrifying, but it's also morally wrong, yes, And
like we have to always say that because it's this
is not just about politics. This is about like the
whole game. Like this is why we.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Get out of bed in the morning, why we were
proud to be in this country is because we were
a diverse, accepting inclusive I mean, I mean inclusive in
the most traditional sense rights of liberty style, and the
rest of.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
The world thinks we are. I mean, it's not even
laughing at us now. It's like they feel bad for
us there. I mean, it's we have really beclowned ourselves.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Is such a good word, but we've fouled ourselves. I
mean I was in Hungary earlier this year.
Speaker 8 (16:02):
And the Hungarians living under Orbon are like, holy shit, And.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
You guys Okay, Yeah, this happened way faster for you
than it did for us. They're running this playbook in
like the first quarter. It's a football metaphor. Can you
even do that?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I don't know, I don't know, I don't who knows.
Speaker 8 (16:20):
In the blend of the blind and one I'd ministering anyway,
I'm just saying, like, you know, we talk about slide
to word autocracy, like fascistic impulses, dictatorial, eplic this is
what autocracy looks like.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I actually believe, like if
we think about how much we've been in these rapid
cycles of backlash. I love this book Backlash by Susan Faludi,
and I just realized, and you know, she talks about
like how you know, you get progress and get backlash,
and I think what we have is different because it
(16:53):
moves so much more quickly. But we're in like backlash
to backlash, backlash, Like you know, you have George Floyd
and then you have ten minutes later these people being
like you know, Kavanaught stops right. Yeah, so like you
have to think about race as you know, an important
parts as discrimination as being a huge part of American life. Oh, no,
you can discriminate on people because of the way they look, Like,
(17:16):
I mean, this is wild within a couple you know, months,
So I think it will turn back. I'm almost scared
for how violently it will turn well.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Yeah, I mean I'm working on this book which is
about the sort of radicalization of the right through the
lens of the Supreme Court in the nineteen eighties, and
like what's really clear is I'm completely in complete agreement
about the sign curve. It's like it's fluctuating with like
much in it's fluctuating to a greater degree in a
much smaller amount of time. But the outer boundaries in
(17:49):
terms of what conservatives want to do and rewinding the
clock on racial and.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Social sea yeah, it is. We're back in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 6 (17:58):
Like this is like post reconstruction, like America that they
want to not even public pre civil rights Like this
is like, you know, this is a project that has
been in the works for decades, and I just feel
like the appetite for regression and you know, turning this
country into really something unrecognizable this millennium, like we're talking
(18:24):
early twentieth century, late.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Nineteenth Like that's not that's what they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
But I think I think the problem they're going to
have is twofold one is I think the country is
too big to do an authoritarian takeover. I think that
what you're going to end up having is a kind
of dissolving of federalism, which, by the way, yeah, I'm
not advocating because I think that's going to be a
real fucking problem too, like a Brexit. You know, you
(18:53):
could see that happening. Just really wants us to talk
about that group chat, the Politico group chat, which showed
all of these like normal quote unquote normal all of
this sort of like you work for Stephanic and so
you're supposed to be normal Republicans in their thirties and
forties and twenties, but not kids saying things like you're
(19:15):
going to get in the gas chamber. Rapist's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I love Hitler.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Racist, right, they're both. Turns out this crew is racist,
not surprising, anti Semitic. I've been raised, I've been I've
been saying, you guys like they're you know, as a Jew,
I'm like, these are not are this crew?
Speaker 6 (19:34):
I remember I'm old, and i I'm old enough to
remember when there were like swastikas and like stars of
David used in derogatory explicitly and semitic fashion in like
twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yes, it's so long ago, right.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
He may have brought peace and I use a lot
of air quotes to the Middle East, but he is
still that crew is still very much not on board.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
Well, when you have the phrase I love Hitler Leek
as part of your group texts, like, I think it's
like the writings on the wall about where you stand.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Yeah, it's not a big mystery there.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Does that taint people like Stephonic, like Mike Lawler, there
are swingy Republicans, I mean they bearing Biden distructs quote unquote, Yeah,
I mean I think I don't know.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
I mean this is one of those things, Molly, where
you would think explicit racism and anti semitism would be.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
A real problem.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
You would think if you were an elected office and
like you had staffers that were engaging in it.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
It's important to note we laugh to keep from crying.
We're not laughing because this is fun, because it's in horror.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
You have a vice president who's embraced the great replacement theory.
I do think whenever you invoke Hitler in a positive fashion,
that's a problem for you. I'm not going to say
that this is nothing burger, but I keep hoping that
there are some red lines that still exist. I mean,
I think it'll be a question about ultimately, it all
comes down to whether people in the GOP can stomach it,
or whether they have or whether they actually say this
(21:02):
is a problem.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
But so far they've been fine with it.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
I mean, at this point, the people we have to
look to are the people inside the party, because until
and unless they do anything, it will be more outrage
from all corners, but except among the sort of rank
and file that prop up the entire project. And until
they decide they've had enough or a revolt or say
this isn't okay, or this isn't who we are, we
(21:26):
can't abide this, then I feel like it's a little
bit of status quo that isn't to be defeatist. And
that's not to say that it shouldn't still be talked
about and highlighted as unacceptable. But you know, I am
galled by the appetite for anti democratic, fascist, racist, misogynist
(21:47):
rhetoric language behavior that has been embraced or just tolerated
by the people and the like leadership and the party.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It's staggering, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
It's interesting to me that we find ourselves here in
like there are some things that we in the normal
world find disqualifying, but MAGA does not. Right, Like those
I love Hitler chats, they'll say they were kidding, whatever,
they're young, whatever they can say. But like Epstein files,
(22:19):
explain us, explain that to us, because they care about.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
Well, right, I mean, actually they kind of care about both,
but in different ways. So, like the idea that black
and brown people are fundamentally somehow outside the American identity
is like bedrock foundational conservative stuff, since the fucking mindy,
since forever, really right exactly, Yeah, But they won't explicitly
(22:44):
say you don't belong here, but look at what's happening, right,
Like there's a clear sort of policy articulation of that
xenophobia and racism. So underneath all of that is it's
belief that you're not really one of us.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
You're not us.
Speaker 6 (22:56):
And so people who are like live wires and go
out there and say it in a group text and
talk about black folks and watermelons or Hitler, like they're
the extreme end of an ideology that the GOP's already
embraced and is acting upon like in real time.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Okay, so in that way.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
They actually like, that's that's that's that's like the most
extreme part of their brethren, right. Epsteine files get to
a foundational belief in MAGA world that there is the
elites are a secret, that the cabal of the elites
is out there to fuck over the rest of the
country slash just pornographically, illegally suck the lifeblood out of
(23:35):
the innocence, right and and so the idea, I mean,
first of all Epstein parts of it happened to be true, right, right, like,
so we should all care about you know, sex trafficking
and victims people.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And by the way, the people in this it's like
Trump's friends from Alan and also Bill Clinton and you
know what, and Prince Andrew and take them all down.
I mean, I don't care like Bill richards you know,
for Bill.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Richardson, I think I think they they can't let that
go because it's central to the worldview that you know,
it's about destroying institutions and the elites that run them.
And it's of a piece with their the large project
of like gutting the federal bureaucracy, draining the swamp, et cetera,
et cetera. And so they're not going to let that
one go in the same way that they'll sit down
(24:26):
and shush up when you know, the racist texts emerge,
because that's actually like in service of the larger project,
which is to make the country wider, and.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
The larger project, like that's how a lot of Republicans
and a lot of Christians made their peace with Donald Trump, right.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
You know, I was talking to a Christian momb the
other day about Trump, and we were it was in
the context of the social Safety Net, and I think,
I think.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
That rolling my eyes because it's so horrific. Go on yet, Well, but.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
I do think the abortion thing, right, and they really
like that he overturned row, you know, like that is
part of and like, you know, the one thing about
pro life is like it's a very clear ideology, Like
they don't they see life as life from conception, and
they're unswerving about it. There's no gray area, right, there's
and there's actually and there's no there's no masquerading. It
(25:17):
is what it is, right, Yeah, And in that way.
It's a pretty clear cut ideology. And so it's I
think that that for example, this mom that I spoke
with that was that was her bright line. She was like,
I am that is life matters above all else. And
I can actually understand how if that's your issue, that
that's the guy that overturned mov Wade. He's trying to
get rid of Mith Pristowe in my prost in some ways,
(25:38):
in some ways not you know, but he's going to
further that agenda in the way that no one else
can at the cost of you know, you know, women's
health and bodyly autonomy.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And I don't know to go into all the counter.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
For that argument.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
But what I think is shocking to me in this
moment is I, as of someone who is raised Catholic,
so much of Christianity is about good works, is about community,
is about and it's like, I get the life thing,
I totally get it, but like everything else on the
agenda is so like vehemently and like just is so
(26:11):
in opposition to the most basic Christian foundations and ethics,
and like how do you make your peace with that dissonance?
You know, how do you? But that's I think what's happening.
Although you know, listen, never say never. I mean, I
do think we're reaching a point where you can't ignore
the brutality of the agenda. Right, it's really playing out
(26:34):
in red states and blue states.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, we're gonna see you, right, I mean, yeah, we will.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
I mean the Supreme Court doesn't allow like a massive
that doesn't rip down the rest of the Voting Rights Act,
and you know, gerrymandered house districts don't steal the election
for TWEP and twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
We'll see, yes, that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
We laugh to keep from crying.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Thank you, Thank you, Molly, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Congressman brand And Boyle represents Pennsylvania's second district. Welcome to
path politics, Congressman Boyle.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
Great to be back with you, Molly. And it's been
too long.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
We were just talking before this about sort of the
moment we're in. We have this shutdown. I was nervous
about this shutdown. I thought Democrats did not have the
paint tolerance too, because Republicans were like, we're just going
to kill the whole federal government, because that's what we've
always wanted to do. But a lot of people in
(27:29):
Democratic leadership told me they thought they were.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Bluffing, sorry, that they thought the Republicans were bluffing.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Well, Republicans were bluffing, and it seems like they sort
of are and they sort of aren't.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
So first on the idea of the shutdown, let's not forget.
Republicans control the House, they control the Senate, they control
the White House. This is the Republican shutdown. I've supported
this in March. I even more so strongly support it now,
not going along with giving up a yes vote when
a metaphorical gun is pointed at your head. The fear
(28:03):
tactic on the other side that was used was that
basically they said, the Democrats shut up, vote yes, or
this bad situation will get even worse and will lay
off more people. Well they've been doing that for the
last nine months. Anyway, did you hear about dog? So no,
I refuse to go along. I also think that coming
off this summer, and I was very involved in this
(28:26):
fight as ranking member of the Budget Committee, pushing back
against what is a bill that's so deeply unpopular. Trump
is even abandoned calling it the Big Beautiful Bill because
it's something like thirty points underwater.
Speaker 7 (28:39):
Go figure.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
It turns out throwing fifteen million people off their healthcare
and making it more expensive for tens of millions of
more people just to pay for tax cuts for the
very rich, it turns out that.
Speaker 7 (28:52):
Is deeply unpopular.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
So I think that anything that we can do to
make that front and center is both right on policy
and write on politics.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
You know, Lisa mckowski. Was it Lisa mccowsky who said
why should Democrat negotiate with Republicans? Or was it Susan Collins?
Speaker 4 (29:11):
She may have said that, but Steve Woomack, a pretty
conservative Republican from Arkansas who's on the Appropriations Committee, outright
said that on the record, why would Democrats vote yes
if the very next day the White House and russ
vote can announce their rescinding what we just voted yes to.
So that is another part of this debate that probably
(29:31):
hasn't gotten as much public attention as the healthcare fight,
and understandably so, but it's really important.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Part of Democrats writ large problem is explaining that some
of this complicated stuff to voters because they just don't
have a ton of civic education. So explain what pocket
recisions are and why they've sort of undermined the power
of the purse.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Yeah, so, Molly, first, one of the reason why I
love talking to you is you're always so optimistic and positive.
So I can help give you some therapy here. Yes, good,
Let me explain recisions. Suppose, Molly, you and I make
an agreement and you're going to get X.
Speaker 7 (30:07):
I'm going to get why. Okay, we shake hands, you
give me your vote. Deal.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
The very next day, I say, yeah, that X you
were getting screw off, You're not getting it. I'm taking
it back. That's recisions. That's what the White House is doing.
Basically votes for money that we had appropriated from Congress
and was signed into law by President the very next day,
taken back from the White House. So what they've been
(30:32):
doing on recisions is illegal. There actually is, and this
really gets into the weeds. There is a process they
could follow that would make it legal, but they basically
refuse to do So why would that?
Speaker 7 (30:44):
Yeah, why would they?
Speaker 4 (30:45):
I mean they basically have to put it up for
a congressional vote within forty five days. But what pocket
recisions are is they just wait until under forty five
days left in the fiscal year and they run out
the clock. So it's really important in this appropriation fight,
this budget fight, that we get a permanent change to
ensure that the White House actually followed the law as
(31:08):
it relates to recisions, because what they're really doing is
taking away the power of the purse, which is the
most important thing Congress has. And when you look at
the way they've stacked the courts, when you look at
the way they have tried to go around the courts,
if you're able to give one stiff arm to Congress
and you're able to give another stiff arm to the
(31:30):
judicial branch, then what do you have? An all powerful executive?
And it's the end of checks and balances. So that's
why what seems like a really inside DC baseball fight
over recisions, pocket recisions, Empowerman, actually is a really important
fight about whether or not we're going to have a
(31:50):
completely all powerful, unchecked executive.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
And that's a real question. I mean, I think that's
the goal of Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Right, Yeah, we're pretty explicit about I mean, Russ Vote,
the Omb director, wrote most of Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7 (32:07):
The reality is this has.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Been a fever dream for people like Russ Vote and
Steven Miller and some others for really a couple decades now,
and they actually have Donald Trump who is willing and
able to go along.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
With their fever dream. It's very, very dangerous.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
That's why this fight we're in right now again is
much bigger than any of the specific line items that
we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
One of the things about this moment that is so
incredibly disappearting is that we've been doing this for like
a decade of our lives. Right, Trump one point zero,
This is not who we are. Trump two point zero.
This is kind of who we are. You're trying to
like do stuff in Congress. You've got Mike Johnson, he
won't swear in the newest Democratic congresswoman. There's this Epstein petition.
(33:00):
If Badalva Grihava is ever sworn in, they'll sign the
discharge petition. Eventually it will get voted down in the Senate.
What's it like to just deal with these people like
Mike Johnson? People like him. He seems like a reasonable guy.
That said. He's on television today saying he doesn't want
to talk about Corey Mills's second set of domestic violence
(33:23):
charges because he only wants to focus on serious stuff.
Speaker 7 (33:27):
First. The last decade can be exhausting.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I forget sometimes that my first two years here we're
back in the normal era when Barack Obama was president
and it was the pre Maga era. So I know
that people can be exhausted about all of this.
Speaker 7 (33:42):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
But I would point out even in the last decade,
we also did have successes along the way. Twenty eighteen,
we flipped forty House seats, won back the House, held
it in twenty twenty. In fact, won a Democratic trifecta
in twenty twenty. With the House, the Senate and the
White House, we're able to pass a lot of good
and meaningful pieces of legislation in twenty twenty one and
(34:03):
twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Not the Voting Right Tact though.
Speaker 7 (34:07):
No, unfortunately not.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
You know, when you have a Senate majority of fifty
to fifty and you need every single Senate Democrat to
go along, that, unfortunately is just one can prevent you
from it.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
And we had two Kristen Cinema and sorry, gone, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
But my point is though that twenty eighteen, twenty twenty,
even twenty twenty two, at a lot of levels governors
races state legislative races was not the typical midterm election.
Republicans were able to flip the House, albeit by the
narrowest of margins. Part of their dysfunction today is because
they only have a three seat majority. So my point is,
(34:40):
it's not like the last ten years has been all
maga uninterrupted.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
Instead, it's been.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
This really kind of very close, constant fight where the
margins are absurdly small. I mean, the look at my
state of Pennsylvania. You know, we're talking about under one
percentage point in twenty sixteen, Trump wins, one point two percent.
In twenty twenty, Joe Biden wins one point seven percent
(35:07):
twenty twenty four, Trump comes back. The margins that we're
talking about are frustratingly, maddeningly close, but we can't give up.
Speaker 7 (35:18):
The alternative is just too awful to contemplate.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, no, no, I mean, there are no choices, and
none of this is popular, though it has managed to
capture Like when you think about it, none of this
is popular, but there is no lane for normal Republicans
right pretty much.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
No, I mean the Senate you occasionally have some, but
the thing that is pretty clear in this era is
that the overwhelming majority of congressional Republicans absolutely refuse to
stand up to Donald Trump, even when they know better,
because they are so deathly afraid of their dear leader
weighing in against them in a Republican primary.
Speaker 7 (35:58):
That's why I have to say I give her a
lot of credit.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
I really respect the way Marjorie Taylor Green has recently
been speaking out, because she's one of the precious few
who is on not just one issue on the Republican side,
who is actually speaking out against her own party's leadership,
including the White House. And so even though I think
she's an extreme figure and agree with her on very little,
(36:21):
I at least give her credit. But there are very
few Republican members of the House and Senate who are
willing to stand up and vote against this president. That's
why it's so desperately important that Democrats take back the
House next November.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Marjorie Taylor Green, Thomas Massey, Ran Paul Make that makes it.
I mean, I guess Libertarians are used to making everyone mad,
so they don't care.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yeah, there's also something in the water, I guess in
Kentucky that explained Thomas Massey and Ram Paul.
Speaker 7 (36:50):
But otherwise, you know, so far.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
At least especially this term, Trump has had ninety nine
percent of Congressional Republicans going with him. As we get
closer to next election and they see there in real trouble,
maybe that will change. But again, the shortest way of
ending this nightmare is at the very least taking back
the House in twenty twenty six and getting ready for
twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
How worried are you about the redistricting.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
I'm very concerned about it. Look, I applaud what Gavin
Newsom is doing. Gavin, as a friend of you, known
each other a long time. He has shown real courage
and real leadership in this moment. I am sick and
tired of those on my side who embrace unilateral disarmament.
I'm glad that more people on my side are starting
to wake up and realize that era has to end.
(37:37):
We cannot have commissions in blue states and yet get
her teeth kicked in in red states. I believe we
should ban jerrymandering nationwide. I actually voted for that four
years ago, and a bill that was called HR one
had a lot of good government reforms, including a ban
on jerrymander. You would have independent, nonpartisan commissions in all
fifty states. But until we have a national solution, we
(38:01):
cannot have Blue states unilaterally disarming. And I would encourage
other Blue state governors to learn from the leadership of
Gavin Newsom and follow it accordingly. Because we see what
Republicans have already done in Texas and Missouri, they are
trying desperately to do the same thing in Indiana, and
in North Carolina and a number of other states. North
(38:24):
Carolina already has a deeply jerrymandered map, but Republicans are
so in love with jerrymandering they're going back to read
jerrymander the state they just jerrymandered only last election.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, if Republicans are able to keep the House to jerrymandering,
it's hard to imagine things don't end really badly for everything.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Well, that's a possibility that I don't discount. I would
point out that the average midterm election over the last
one hundred and fifty years is a pickup of on average,
twenty three seats. Just the last twenty years, we've seen
a higher figure than that in terms of the average,
and the best estimate, you know, Republicans have a three
seat majority. Now if California, if that initiative passes, it's
(39:08):
so important that proposition passes that would basically cancel out
the Republican gains in Texas through their new map.
Speaker 7 (39:15):
Even if you account for all the others, and even
if you.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
Say that Democrats refuse the follow suit in Maryland and Illinois,
then it looks like Republicans would net about a five
seat increase from all of this jerry manderin you add
to do you add that to the.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
Three seat majority they already have.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
Basically they would be at high single digits instead of
low single digits. Yeah, that's enough. They could still hold on.
But if we do what we need to do on
our side, we should be picking up a hell of
a lot more than eight seats next election.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Well, I mean, it is very unpopular what he's doing
now two.
Speaker 7 (39:49):
To one, but we say it's unpopular.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Their agenda that they passed of the biggest tax cuts
in American history, paid for it through the biggest loss
of healthcare in American history and the biggest cuts to
other programs such as new nutrition assistance, student loan repayment programs,
et cetera. Most polls show that is more than twenty
points underwater. Some even show two to one disapproval over approval.
(40:14):
According to one professor who is quoted by CNN who
has tracked polling date over the last fifty years, he
said he has never seen any other piece of legislation
as deeply unpopular as the Republican tax bill.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, because a minute's insane. It's the largest transfer of
wealth wealth right poor to the ruge. So you're in leadership.
Democrats have had a little bit of trouble getting their feet,
sort of finding their feet. I listened to this Belt
White podcast that I hate. That makes me so depressed.
That is like all of them like being like, you know,
(40:47):
I always say, like they put the fun in fascism,
and they're like, you know, oh, look at that tank,
it's so shiny. But what I think is interesting is
they even said like Republicans are not able to stay
on message the way Democrats are when it comes this shutdown.
And I've seen people like Hassan Piker, who's this wildly
(41:10):
popular YouTuber. I'm sure you know who he is. She
has been really hard on leadership probably you know, maybe
a little bit even I mean as hard as anyone,
and he saw Jeffries fighting with Mike Lawler and was like, hell, yeah,
what do you think that? What are the lessons here?
Speaker 4 (41:29):
I welcome this fight, as you know, Molly argued for it,
both internally and externally. I think we have to be
caught trying people get that we want to save the
healthcare of the American people. I think we're on strong
ground and firm ground, both substantively and politically. And I
think in this moment, I would point out that even
Donald Trump, much of the frustration, it turns out of
(41:53):
Mike Johnson and John Thune. Even Donald Trump, sitting in
the Oval Office, when asked about the shutdown, said well,
it's about healthcare. Yeah, that that was the success of
what we've been saying. This shutdown is about healthcare. It's
about the fact that Republicans just passed the tax bill
that will throw fifteen million Americans off their health insurance
(42:13):
according to the CBO, and will increase premiums for tens
and tens of millions more beginning literally.
Speaker 7 (42:20):
By the wayrus today in Idaho.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
The very first state to send out their letters of
the premium increases. In my own state, I've talked about
how close Pennsylvania is, biggest battleground state in the country.
On the Obamacare exchanges, it is estimated the average premium
increase will be a one hundred to two percent increase.
That is stagers, if you're used to paying five hundred
(42:44):
dollars a month overnight, you're paying one thousand dollars a month.
So that's what Democrats are fighting to prevent, and Republicans
are so hell bent on pushing through with this, they're
willing to shut down the government in order to make
sure it happens.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
ComRes mcboil, will you come back always?
Speaker 7 (43:00):
I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 6 (43:03):
No more perfectly.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Jesse Cannon Smiley, I am kind of obsessed with this
idea of the Trump administration trying to make Antifa into
a thing that is a real thing that's running around America.
But really, we all know that this is a way
that they can make a designation to start to round
up their enemies and pretend that people with signs that
(43:27):
rallies are a real threat to them.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, so this is this thing where Trump really really
wants to prosecute Democrats and he can't think of a
way to do that, so BONDI has made up something
called Antifa, which is not real. She says, it's no
different than MS thirteen. That is not true. That is like,
it's not it's not true. It's like what is more
(43:52):
not true than not true? Like what is it's not
even like anywhere near true. It's like it's not even close.
It's just not even any uh uh net know not true.
And she uses as proof the most reliable people in
the world, mega influencers, perhaps some who are paid by
(44:14):
foreign governments. She would like people to talk to those
mega influencers because they know the truth about the danger
of democrats. I'm sorry, but like, I guess there's someone
who believes this, But I feel like even the most
trumpy of Trumpers has to know this is ridiculous, right
(44:36):
or am I wrong?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
No? I mean largely what we saw at the White
House the other week was a bunch of losers whose
brand was built on when Antifo was active five years ago,
they were covering them. Now they're doing brand recovery, trying
to make themselves relevant again, and they went to the
White House and they're pretending this is the thing because
there's now political expiency. One of the most telling things
(44:59):
we saw this week was Glenn Beck did his usual
thing where he was ranting and raving and seeing things
he doesn't know what he's talking about about Antifa, and
he had to kind of go on air and be like,
so funny thing happened. Cash Hotel sent the FBI to
my house to hear about my evidence about Antifa existing,
because he's that giddy to find Antifa, and you'll be
shocked to your glad dad to kind of walk back
(45:20):
as usual bullshit that he didn't really have much evidence
of Antifa existing.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, this is like with everything, this is just bullshit.
It's worth realizing. Like I want to just point out
one other thing that's happening here, which is we're seeing
like a lot almost all the journalists who cover the Pentagon,
including Fox News, including everyone with the exception of Oam
giving up their Pentagon passes because Pete Hegsas made this
(45:50):
crazy oh that none of them would sign. And I
just want to point out I just want to go
back to this for one more second, because I feel
like this is the way you do it if you
are university solidarity. Everybody says they won't make the deal
as opposed to You can't just fight one at a time.
Got to do this as a group. That's the only
(46:13):
way to do any of this. And I just I
want to point that out again because you know, Antifa
may not be real, but when they come after universities
and media outlets and everything else like that, Senators, Republican senators,
everyone needs to stand up because if it's just one person,
it's much easier to ruin them, but if it's many,
(46:36):
then it's much harder for them.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
I can I talk to you about the real terrorist
threat I'm concerned about. Yes, these women who pick up
boulders on glass bridges that collapse, the Golden Retrievers get
the kids very scared about this. I've seen videos alike.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
And everyone needs to block the AI slum. Yes, I agree,
AI is not your friend. Block Allsora, block the slum.
That's what all I care about. Block this lap baby.
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best
(47:14):
minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If
you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend
and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds. And Scott Besson says he's considering doubling
the twenty billion dollars of aid to Argentina. Okay, this
is what happens when you have a cryptocer say we
have such a great show for you. Today, MSNBC's own
(00:22):
Alex Wagner stops by to talk about Trump overplaying his
hand on immigration. Then we'll talk to Congressman Brendan Boyle
about how the Republicans are losing the messaging war on
the government jut down. But first the news.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
Somalia Duloitte has done a study. They've taken the temperature
on consumers and I'm going to shock you. After all
the stupid policies that Trump has been doing for a
whole nine months, you know, we get the worst consumer
confidence heading into the big hiring season of the holiday season,
and the economies look at bet.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
The consumers have no common confidence. I don't know why
that twenty or forty billion dollar bill out to Argentina
should make everyone feel confident.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I really felt a lot of confidence as I last night,
watched an interview with the farmer talking about how they're
funding his competitors.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Yeah, I feel confident that this is going to be
a fucking disaster. So again, you remember, Donald Trump tends
to fire anyone who tells him bad news. So I
don't know, maybe he'll never see this. But consumers plan
to spend about ten percent less than last year. Seventy
seven percent expect higher prices. The other twenty three percent
(01:36):
are magged out on crack. Gen Z expects to spend
thirty four percent less. Well, millennials expect to cut thirteen percent,
and boomers, those boomers who love Trump, those guys, they're
going to spend about six percent less. Yes, Generation X,
they're bucking the trend by spending a little more. President
(01:59):
Trump's two reps are on everything because he is a lunatic,
and so we're seeing, you know, rules on everything, apparel,
holiday decorps, toys. Remember when Donald Trump last year said
you might only get two dollars instead of ten dollars.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Well, I'm thinking about when like let Nick, all of
them were saying, just you wait and see in six
months of or on March, and oh wait, it's been
more than six months. Oh fuck, they will lied to
me again.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Wow, ninety deals in ninety days and that actually translated
to none or three. I don't know, maybe whatever. It's
all very lucy goosey here, except that everything costs a
lot more. But it's all so that Donald Trump can
have a slush fund that he can use for whatever,
(02:50):
because we have moved into a world with a government
that no longer follows the law. Thanks everyone, Smiley.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
While I'm saying this next part, you may go is
mine Bill Murray am I in the movie groundhog Day?
And I will say, no, you are not. It's just
that the same thing keeps happening because we have the
most reckless, moronic government possible. And yeah, the AHHS has
now had to recall the wad Off health statistics staff
that they fired in the Friday Night massacre last week,
(03:18):
and the rehirings will continue until morale improves.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I want to point out part of when we looked
at how Elon Mush was costing us all these tax dollars,
this is why he was going to say this money
because you're firing people and then you're rehiring them, so
you have to pay for severns or you have to
pay to retrain people, or you have to pay to
re onboard them. You'll remember Elon mush who fired like
(03:45):
everyone in the world, and you fired people like the
people who predict the hurricane, who do this, who do that?
So now we have AHHS. I actually am happy that
they're rehiring the statistics, the statistic staff, because I've seen
Trump also fire people who know stuff and then never
rehire them, like the Bureau of Labor and pharm Statistics
(04:07):
or put in a trumper. So at least they're rehiring
the people. But yeah, every time you fire someone because
you're a Russ Vaught and you want to stick it
to the libs, taxpayers have to pay for that. By
the way, in case you're wondering, we're paying as taxpayers.
We're paying for a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Baby, do you think this is a democratic agency? The
Health Statistics. I just can't keep track of which one's
a democratic agency.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, those are libtards right there, and the Bureau of
Labors they're the lib tardiest.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Well, I do have interesting news on this front, because
a judge has blocked mister Vaught from firing federal workers
during the government shutdown for nap.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah, that judge, he's going to alligate or alcatraz.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I heard Jack pisobiak say say something about that over
the weekend.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Judge blocks Trump from firing federal workers during government shut
down for now. You know why because it's not legal.
So much of this is not legal. San Francisco US
District Court Judge, She's definitely going to the Hague or
the She's going to Gizmo. Jack pisobiac is going to
send her to Getmo.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
That's what he was saying over the weekend when he
was rallying for the new Jersey governor candidate for the Republicans.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
Yeah, should a rally. So, look, I think it's important
to remember that so much of this they're doing is illegal,
im moral. If you stick around long enough, all of
this will ultimately be made illegal in court. The question
is when.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Yeah, so, Molly, I want to take you back in time.
I want to see how your long term memory is.
I going to say a name. Do you remember this person?
Jack Smith?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
All I can tell you is I don't want to
complain about Merrik Arlind, But since you've opened the door
to this Joe Biden put someone in the job who
was the worst possible person for the fucking job, and
that person very cautious and lawyer guy. Put another guy,
we got Jacksmith from Public Integrity. He was going to
(06:07):
solve it. Well, you know this.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Guy, one might say, the Mueller of his day.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
The Mueller. Yeah, another disappointing figure from American life. So
one of the difference between the Biden and Trump case
is that the obstructive conduct in the case that I investigated.
To prove illegal possession of classified documents, you need to
show this is like a Jacksmith quote. Okay, you need
to show that the defendant possessed the documents wilfully. That
(06:33):
means Trump knew what he was doing was wrong. Smith
said in a sit down at University College London, we
had tons of evidence of wilfulness. Oh really, you don't
fucking say.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
So let's spell this out though, for those who are
not speaking that wonderful jargon of legal eese. He's saying
that mister Trump knowingly just took those documents, whereas Joe Biden, well.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
My man knew what he was doing was illegal.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
That's what we're saying here.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
That's what we're saying, and you'll be shocked to hear that.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
The speech comes as we're seeing that there's threats that
mister Trump is going to do to Jack Smith what
he has done to Leticia James, mister James comy, and
he's going to go after him next.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I think that seems very likely. But also that's and
we're going to fight. We're all going to fight, and
he's going to fight. But it's important to realize like
Smith had proof of obstruction, he had proof that Trump
knew what he was doing was illegal, and I think
that is certainly important.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, that's important.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Alex Wagner is a senior political analyst and ms NBC
and the host of Runaway Country on Crooket Media. Hi,
I'm excited to be joined by the host of the
upcoming Runaway Country podcast from Crookeet Media.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Thank you, Molly. It's a delight to be here with you.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Well, I'm happy to have you.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
You're like back on the road, and that I mean
ish ish I'm talking to people across the country.
Speaker 6 (08:09):
Yeah, but I'm not traveling like I was for other
projects I have engaged in the last year or two,
four or five.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
But it is like a pretty fucked up moment in
the country in a way, because so my friend in Chicago,
you know who's who is working in the legislature, sent
me these these Instagram photos last night from the Chicago
Sun Times, and she, you know she and I think
she's very, very smart, and I have a lot of
(08:38):
respect for she works in the Governor's office. And so
I'm always like, what's going on with you guys, And
She's like, I can't say anything that explains more than
these photos.
Speaker 6 (08:48):
Yeah, so much of what's happening right now, for saw,
there's so much chaos happening, and it's all unfolding in
parallel and also in the abstract, right, Like we talk
about masked ice agents, and sometimes a video goes viral
and you see some violence or you see a confrontation,
or we talk about you know, tariffs and like farmers
sitting with a whole bunch of soybeans, like with no
(09:08):
market to sell it at. But like the actual lived
experience of that is so radically different. And I I,
as a journalist, have I always like go talking to
people in the center of the story, right, But I
just feel like, particularly at this moment, there are these visceral,
deeply emotional, riviting stories that we're missing because we're not
getting at like the kind of the marrow of it all.
(09:30):
We're not talking to the people, we don't have characters,
we're not thinking about the human the humanity.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
Of it all.
Speaker 6 (09:35):
Right, as all this insanity plays out, part of it
is like we are digesting it also quickly that there
hasn't been I think, like the time to do it.
But you know, on new podcast, the whole goal is
to really give you characters and something you know that
resonates in your heart and mind to hold on too
when you think about when you read the next headline, right,
(09:57):
and some of these people are going to be recurring,
and we're talking to local journalists, we're expending our network
of kind of people who are going to help report
it out. It's like it's very exciting and also daunting
because they're so it's really hard to.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Know where to even begin.
Speaker 6 (10:12):
And by the way, we're not just talking to victims
of you know, Trump administration policies. We're also talking to
people who are maybe they're National Guard troops stationed at
a blue city or you know, they're still Trump supporters
in the middle of economic upheaval. But the idea is
to just kind of put some real like faces with
these these words that we talk about a lot, and
(10:33):
in the same way that your friend is like nothing
captures it the same way this photo does. Like we
there's I think there's a collective numbness that's set in
a little bit, and it's that we're trying to get
back to the sort of visceral understanding of what we're
going through as a country.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
But when you look at these photos of like these
National Guard troops with these kids, like yes, I'm sure
you've seen these photos, like yes, you know, young black
kid you know, looks like my cousin, you know, curly
hair being like thrown on the ground. Yeah, by this,
you know, member of the National Guard who's probably not
(11:06):
trained for this because Trump's paramilitary organization have you know,
has been put together in like three months by Christy Nome,
you know, noted dog killer Christie Nome, Like I just
dog assassin, right. I wonder like what the thing I
think a lot about is like Trump believes, at least
(11:27):
his administration believes these photos help him, Right, That's why
they're traveling around with camera crews and lighting, et cetera. Yeah,
And Fritzker, who I think is very smart, believes that
if you document everything, eventually the American people will see
this and be like, this is not who we are. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
And and Trump's wrong to think that he has American
public support on this, right, which is why you have
like Joe Rogan coming out and like you have Marjorie
Taylor Green coming out.
Speaker 7 (11:55):
Right.
Speaker 6 (11:55):
People see this unfolding in their communities and it doesn't
I mean, and his poll numbers on immigration are not good.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Right, he's there on.
Speaker 6 (12:03):
The economy, right, and like this is not some I mean,
it is a curiosity why Democrats have not felt like
they can occupy the moral high ground on this more
vociferously and aggressively, because people don't like this.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
This is not what they ask for.
Speaker 6 (12:18):
Although although the signs at the RNC were like mass
deportations now, I do not think the American public truly
comprehended or contemplated the notion that there would be as
you say, Trump's paramilitary organization led by Christy Nome, would
be terrorizing communities whether they're even there or not. Right, Like,
there's so much fear in black and brown communities. My mother,
(12:42):
who is a naturalized American citizen has been here for
sixty years, is like, I don't feel comfortable driving by
myself anymore. She lives in a swing district, and it's like,
this is like, this isn't what we bargained for when
we signed up for America.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Right, No, but I think we all thought this is
where this When I saw those signs, I was like,
these people don't don't know what this is going to be, absolutely,
but we know, like we know from history, Yes, what
happens when you Mexicans. That's what I was actually thinking about.
It always sweeps up the people who are citizens too.
Speaker 6 (13:14):
Yes, because when you're just targeting people racially and you
live in a racially diverse country, you're going to sweep
up a bunch of people that are American citizens. And
I think the fact that they're doing so with the
impromonte of the Supreme Court is like another level of nefarious, pernicious,
like distressing developments that we could talk about at another time,
but call them Kavanaugh stops.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, exactly, sorry, gone, yes.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yes, Kavanaugh stops.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
I mean I just yeah, I think I think there
were and I think, you know, the videos that you
talk about are made for the Trump administration is doing
with you know, the ride alongs and doctor Phil and
whatever the fuck else is, sorry, whatever the hell else is,
But that stuff is made for the people with the
mass deportation signs now mass people occasions now assign And
(14:01):
the problem for Trump is that's those people are already
fired up. They've been fired up, Like racism is Warren
proudly and as like a badge of honor, and like
that's not also America, Like there is a part of
his magabase that is really into this, but that is
not the American public writ large. And that's where you
know they're in real trouble.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
I think on this. In addition, I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
But I also killing the economy.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
I would also just say there is and this is
where I would love to see more in terms of
organization and engagement independent of Trump, Like we can't let
this happen to our fellow citizens, Like this just can't
be something we abide. And you know, I think the
organization there's like a big protest coming up this weekend,
but it is a thing that you really have to
(14:48):
keep talking about because people should be indignant about this
that it's happening in our country. Like, even setting aside
whether it's going to strew Trump Trump or not, it's
just like we can't live in this. We are breaking
the American social compact when we allow people who look
a certain way to be targeted systematically by the government
(15:10):
and terrorized.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Like that's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, I think you have a really good point that
it's politically horrifying, but it's also morally wrong, yes, And
like we have to always say that because it's this
is not just about politics. This is about like the
whole game. Like this is why we.
Speaker 5 (15:29):
Get out of bed in the morning, why we were
proud to be in this country is because we were
a diverse, accepting inclusive I mean, I mean inclusive in
the most traditional sense rights of liberty style, and the
rest of.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
The world thinks we are. I mean, it's not even
laughing at us now. It's like they feel bad for
us there. I mean, it's we have really beclowned ourselves.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Is such a good word, but we've fouled ourselves. I
mean I was in Hungary earlier this year.
Speaker 8 (16:02):
And the Hungarians living under Orbon are like, holy shit, And.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
You guys Okay, Yeah, this happened way faster for you
than it did for us. They're running this playbook in
like the first quarter. It's a football metaphor. Can you
even do that?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
I don't know, I don't know, I don't who knows.
Speaker 8 (16:20):
In the blend of the blind and one I'd ministering anyway,
I'm just saying, like, you know, we talk about slide
to word autocracy, like fascistic impulses, dictatorial, eplic this is
what autocracy looks like.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I actually believe, like if
we think about how much we've been in these rapid
cycles of backlash. I love this book Backlash by Susan Faludi,
and I just realized, and you know, she talks about
like how you know, you get progress and get backlash,
and I think what we have is different because it
(16:53):
moves so much more quickly. But we're in like backlash
to backlash, backlash, Like you know, you have George Floyd
and then you have ten minutes later these people being
like you know, Kavanaught stops right. Yeah, so like you
have to think about race as you know, an important
parts as discrimination as being a huge part of American life. Oh, no,
you can discriminate on people because of the way they look, Like,
(17:16):
I mean, this is wild within a couple you know, months,
So I think it will turn back. I'm almost scared
for how violently it will turn well.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
Yeah, I mean I'm working on this book which is
about the sort of radicalization of the right through the
lens of the Supreme Court in the nineteen eighties, and
like what's really clear is I'm completely in complete agreement
about the sign curve. It's like it's fluctuating with like
much in it's fluctuating to a greater degree in a
much smaller amount of time. But the outer boundaries in
(17:49):
terms of what conservatives want to do and rewinding the
clock on racial and.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Social sea yeah, it is. We're back in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 6 (17:58):
Like this is like post reconstruction, like America that they
want to not even public pre civil rights Like this
is like, you know, this is a project that has
been in the works for decades, and I just feel
like the appetite for regression and you know, turning this
country into really something unrecognizable this millennium, like we're talking
(18:24):
early twentieth century, late.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Nineteenth Like that's not that's what they're looking for.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
But I think I think the problem they're going to
have is twofold one is I think the country is
too big to do an authoritarian takeover. I think that
what you're going to end up having is a kind
of dissolving of federalism, which, by the way, yeah, I'm
not advocating because I think that's going to be a
real fucking problem too, like a Brexit. You know, you
(18:53):
could see that happening. Just really wants us to talk
about that group chat, the Politico group chat, which showed
all of these like normal quote unquote normal all of
this sort of like you work for Stephanic and so
you're supposed to be normal Republicans in their thirties and
forties and twenties, but not kids saying things like you're
(19:15):
going to get in the gas chamber. Rapist's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I love Hitler.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Racist, right, they're both. Turns out this crew is racist,
not surprising, anti Semitic. I've been raised, I've been I've
been saying, you guys like they're you know, as a Jew,
I'm like, these are not are this crew?
Speaker 6 (19:34):
I remember I'm old, and i I'm old enough to
remember when there were like swastikas and like stars of
David used in derogatory explicitly and semitic fashion in like
twenty sixteen.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yes, it's so long ago, right.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
He may have brought peace and I use a lot
of air quotes to the Middle East, but he is
still that crew is still very much not on board.
Speaker 6 (19:57):
Well, when you have the phrase I love Hitler Leek
as part of your group texts, like, I think it's
like the writings on the wall about where you stand.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Yeah, it's not a big mystery there.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Does that taint people like Stephonic, like Mike Lawler, there
are swingy Republicans, I mean they bearing Biden distructs quote unquote, Yeah,
I mean I think I don't know.
Speaker 6 (20:20):
I mean this is one of those things, Molly, where
you would think explicit racism and anti semitism would be.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
A real problem.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
You would think if you were an elected office and
like you had staffers that were engaging in it.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
It's important to note we laugh to keep from crying.
We're not laughing because this is fun, because it's in horror.
Speaker 6 (20:39):
You have a vice president who's embraced the great replacement theory.
I do think whenever you invoke Hitler in a positive fashion,
that's a problem for you. I'm not going to say
that this is nothing burger, but I keep hoping that
there are some red lines that still exist. I mean,
I think it'll be a question about ultimately, it all
comes down to whether people in the GOP can stomach it,
or whether they have or whether they actually say this
(21:02):
is a problem.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
But so far they've been fine with it.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
I mean, at this point, the people we have to
look to are the people inside the party, because until
and unless they do anything, it will be more outrage
from all corners, but except among the sort of rank
and file that prop up the entire project. And until
they decide they've had enough or a revolt or say
this isn't okay, or this isn't who we are, we
(21:26):
can't abide this, then I feel like it's a little
bit of status quo that isn't to be defeatist. And
that's not to say that it shouldn't still be talked
about and highlighted as unacceptable. But you know, I am
galled by the appetite for anti democratic, fascist, racist, misogynist
(21:47):
rhetoric language behavior that has been embraced or just tolerated
by the people and the like leadership and the party.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
It's staggering, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
It's interesting to me that we find ourselves here in
like there are some things that we in the normal
world find disqualifying, but MAGA does not. Right, Like those
I love Hitler chats, they'll say they were kidding, whatever,
they're young, whatever they can say. But like Epstein files,
(22:19):
explain us, explain that to us, because they care about.
Speaker 6 (22:23):
Well, right, I mean, actually they kind of care about both,
but in different ways. So, like the idea that black
and brown people are fundamentally somehow outside the American identity
is like bedrock foundational conservative stuff, since the fucking mindy,
since forever, really right exactly, Yeah, But they won't explicitly
(22:44):
say you don't belong here, but look at what's happening, right,
Like there's a clear sort of policy articulation of that
xenophobia and racism. So underneath all of that is it's
belief that you're not really one of us.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
You're not us.
Speaker 6 (22:56):
And so people who are like live wires and go
out there and say it in a group text and
talk about black folks and watermelons or Hitler, like they're
the extreme end of an ideology that the GOP's already
embraced and is acting upon like in real time.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Okay, so in that way.
Speaker 6 (23:11):
They actually like, that's that's that's that's like the most
extreme part of their brethren, right. Epsteine files get to
a foundational belief in MAGA world that there is the
elites are a secret, that the cabal of the elites
is out there to fuck over the rest of the
country slash just pornographically, illegally suck the lifeblood out of
(23:35):
the innocence, right and and so the idea, I mean,
first of all Epstein parts of it happened to be true, right, right, like,
so we should all care about you know, sex trafficking
and victims people.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
And by the way, the people in this it's like
Trump's friends from Alan and also Bill Clinton and you
know what, and Prince Andrew and take them all down.
I mean, I don't care like Bill richards you know,
for Bill.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
Richardson, I think I think they they can't let that
go because it's central to the worldview that you know,
it's about destroying institutions and the elites that run them.
And it's of a piece with their the large project
of like gutting the federal bureaucracy, draining the swamp, et cetera,
et cetera. And so they're not going to let that
one go in the same way that they'll sit down
(24:26):
and shush up when you know, the racist texts emerge,
because that's actually like in service of the larger project,
which is to make the country wider, and.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
The larger project, like that's how a lot of Republicans
and a lot of Christians made their peace with Donald Trump, right.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
You know, I was talking to a Christian momb the
other day about Trump, and we were it was in
the context of the social Safety Net, and I think,
I think.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
That rolling my eyes because it's so horrific. Go on yet, Well, but.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
I do think the abortion thing, right, and they really
like that he overturned row, you know, like that is
part of and like, you know, the one thing about
pro life is like it's a very clear ideology, Like
they don't they see life as life from conception, and
they're unswerving about it. There's no gray area, right, there's
and there's actually and there's no there's no masquerading. It
(25:17):
is what it is, right, Yeah, And in that way.
It's a pretty clear cut ideology. And so it's I
think that that for example, this mom that I spoke
with that was that was her bright line. She was like,
I am that is life matters above all else. And
I can actually understand how if that's your issue, that
that's the guy that overturned mov Wade. He's trying to
get rid of Mith Pristowe in my prost in some ways,
(25:38):
in some ways not you know, but he's going to
further that agenda in the way that no one else
can at the cost of you know, you know, women's
health and bodyly autonomy.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
And I don't know to go into all the counter.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
For that argument.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
But what I think is shocking to me in this
moment is I, as of someone who is raised Catholic,
so much of Christianity is about good works, is about community,
is about and it's like, I get the life thing,
I totally get it, but like everything else on the
agenda is so like vehemently and like just is so
(26:11):
in opposition to the most basic Christian foundations and ethics,
and like how do you make your peace with that dissonance?
You know, how do you? But that's I think what's happening.
Although you know, listen, never say never. I mean, I
do think we're reaching a point where you can't ignore
the brutality of the agenda. Right, it's really playing out
(26:34):
in red states and blue states.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, we're gonna see you, right, I mean, yeah, we will.
Speaker 6 (26:40):
I mean the Supreme Court doesn't allow like a massive
that doesn't rip down the rest of the Voting Rights Act,
and you know, gerrymandered house districts don't steal the election
for TWEP and twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
We'll see, yes, that doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
We laugh to keep from crying.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Thank you, Thank you, Molly, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
Congressman brand And Boyle represents Pennsylvania's second district. Welcome to
path politics, Congressman Boyle.
Speaker 7 (27:05):
Great to be back with you, Molly. And it's been
too long.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
We were just talking before this about sort of the
moment we're in. We have this shutdown. I was nervous
about this shutdown. I thought Democrats did not have the
paint tolerance too, because Republicans were like, we're just going
to kill the whole federal government, because that's what we've
always wanted to do. But a lot of people in
(27:29):
Democratic leadership told me they thought they were.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
Bluffing, sorry, that they thought the Republicans were bluffing.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Well, Republicans were bluffing, and it seems like they sort
of are and they sort of aren't.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
So first on the idea of the shutdown, let's not forget.
Republicans control the House, they control the Senate, they control
the White House. This is the Republican shutdown. I've supported
this in March. I even more so strongly support it now,
not going along with giving up a yes vote when
a metaphorical gun is pointed at your head. The fear
(28:03):
tactic on the other side that was used was that
basically they said, the Democrats shut up, vote yes, or
this bad situation will get even worse and will lay
off more people. Well they've been doing that for the
last nine months. Anyway, did you hear about dog? So no,
I refuse to go along. I also think that coming
off this summer, and I was very involved in this
(28:26):
fight as ranking member of the Budget Committee, pushing back
against what is a bill that's so deeply unpopular. Trump
is even abandoned calling it the Big Beautiful Bill because
it's something like thirty points underwater.
Speaker 7 (28:39):
Go figure.
Speaker 4 (28:40):
It turns out throwing fifteen million people off their healthcare
and making it more expensive for tens of millions of
more people just to pay for tax cuts for the
very rich, it turns out that.
Speaker 7 (28:52):
Is deeply unpopular.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
So I think that anything that we can do to
make that front and center is both right on policy
and write on politics.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
You know, Lisa mckowski. Was it Lisa mccowsky who said
why should Democrat negotiate with Republicans? Or was it Susan Collins?
Speaker 4 (29:11):
She may have said that, but Steve Woomack, a pretty
conservative Republican from Arkansas who's on the Appropriations Committee, outright
said that on the record, why would Democrats vote yes
if the very next day the White House and russ
vote can announce their rescinding what we just voted yes to.
So that is another part of this debate that probably
(29:31):
hasn't gotten as much public attention as the healthcare fight,
and understandably so, but it's really important.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Part of Democrats writ large problem is explaining that some
of this complicated stuff to voters because they just don't
have a ton of civic education. So explain what pocket
recisions are and why they've sort of undermined the power
of the purse.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Yeah, so, Molly, first, one of the reason why I
love talking to you is you're always so optimistic and positive.
So I can help give you some therapy here. Yes, good,
Let me explain recisions. Suppose, Molly, you and I make
an agreement and you're going to get X.
Speaker 7 (30:07):
I'm going to get why. Okay, we shake hands, you
give me your vote. Deal.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
The very next day, I say, yeah, that X you
were getting screw off, You're not getting it. I'm taking
it back. That's recisions. That's what the White House is doing.
Basically votes for money that we had appropriated from Congress
and was signed into law by President the very next day,
taken back from the White House. So what they've been
(30:32):
doing on recisions is illegal. There actually is, and this
really gets into the weeds. There is a process they
could follow that would make it legal, but they basically
refuse to do So why would that?
Speaker 7 (30:44):
Yeah, why would they?
Speaker 4 (30:45):
I mean they basically have to put it up for
a congressional vote within forty five days. But what pocket
recisions are is they just wait until under forty five
days left in the fiscal year and they run out
the clock. So it's really important in this appropriation fight,
this budget fight, that we get a permanent change to
ensure that the White House actually followed the law as
(31:08):
it relates to recisions, because what they're really doing is
taking away the power of the purse, which is the
most important thing Congress has. And when you look at
the way they've stacked the courts, when you look at
the way they have tried to go around the courts,
if you're able to give one stiff arm to Congress
and you're able to give another stiff arm to the
(31:30):
judicial branch, then what do you have? An all powerful executive?
And it's the end of checks and balances. So that's
why what seems like a really inside DC baseball fight
over recisions, pocket recisions, Empowerman, actually is a really important
fight about whether or not we're going to have a
(31:50):
completely all powerful, unchecked executive.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
And that's a real question. I mean, I think that's
the goal of Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Right, Yeah, we're pretty explicit about I mean, Russ Vote,
the Omb director, wrote most of Project twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7 (32:07):
The reality is this has.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Been a fever dream for people like Russ Vote and
Steven Miller and some others for really a couple decades now,
and they actually have Donald Trump who is willing and
able to go along.
Speaker 7 (32:21):
With their fever dream. It's very, very dangerous.
Speaker 4 (32:25):
That's why this fight we're in right now again is
much bigger than any of the specific line items that
we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
One of the things about this moment that is so
incredibly disappearting is that we've been doing this for like
a decade of our lives. Right, Trump one point zero,
This is not who we are. Trump two point zero.
This is kind of who we are. You're trying to
like do stuff in Congress. You've got Mike Johnson, he
won't swear in the newest Democratic congresswoman. There's this Epstein petition.
(33:00):
If Badalva Grihava is ever sworn in, they'll sign the
discharge petition. Eventually it will get voted down in the Senate.
What's it like to just deal with these people like
Mike Johnson? People like him. He seems like a reasonable guy.
That said. He's on television today saying he doesn't want
to talk about Corey Mills's second set of domestic violence
(33:23):
charges because he only wants to focus on serious stuff.
Speaker 7 (33:27):
First. The last decade can be exhausting.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
I forget sometimes that my first two years here we're
back in the normal era when Barack Obama was president
and it was the pre Maga era. So I know
that people can be exhausted about all of this.
Speaker 7 (33:42):
I get it.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
But I would point out even in the last decade,
we also did have successes along the way. Twenty eighteen,
we flipped forty House seats, won back the House, held
it in twenty twenty. In fact, won a Democratic trifecta
in twenty twenty. With the House, the Senate and the
White House, we're able to pass a lot of good
and meaningful pieces of legislation in twenty twenty one and
(34:03):
twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Not the Voting Right Tact though.
Speaker 7 (34:07):
No, unfortunately not.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
You know, when you have a Senate majority of fifty
to fifty and you need every single Senate Democrat to
go along, that, unfortunately is just one can prevent you
from it.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
And we had two Kristen Cinema and sorry, gone, yes, yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:19):
But my point is though that twenty eighteen, twenty twenty,
even twenty twenty two, at a lot of levels governors
races state legislative races was not the typical midterm election.
Republicans were able to flip the House, albeit by the
narrowest of margins. Part of their dysfunction today is because
they only have a three seat majority. So my point is,
(34:40):
it's not like the last ten years has been all
maga uninterrupted.
Speaker 7 (34:45):
Instead, it's been.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
This really kind of very close, constant fight where the
margins are absurdly small. I mean, the look at my
state of Pennsylvania. You know, we're talking about under one
percentage point in twenty sixteen, Trump wins, one point two percent.
In twenty twenty, Joe Biden wins one point seven percent
(35:07):
twenty twenty four, Trump comes back. The margins that we're
talking about are frustratingly, maddeningly close, but we can't give up.
Speaker 7 (35:18):
The alternative is just too awful to contemplate.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
Yeah, no, no, I mean, there are no choices, and
none of this is popular, though it has managed to
capture Like when you think about it, none of this
is popular, but there is no lane for normal Republicans
right pretty much.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
No, I mean the Senate you occasionally have some, but
the thing that is pretty clear in this era is
that the overwhelming majority of congressional Republicans absolutely refuse to
stand up to Donald Trump, even when they know better,
because they are so deathly afraid of their dear leader
weighing in against them in a Republican primary.
Speaker 7 (35:58):
That's why I have to say I give her a
lot of credit.
Speaker 4 (36:01):
I really respect the way Marjorie Taylor Green has recently
been speaking out, because she's one of the precious few
who is on not just one issue on the Republican side,
who is actually speaking out against her own party's leadership,
including the White House. And so even though I think
she's an extreme figure and agree with her on very little,
(36:21):
I at least give her credit. But there are very
few Republican members of the House and Senate who are
willing to stand up and vote against this president. That's
why it's so desperately important that Democrats take back the
House next November.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Marjorie Taylor Green, Thomas Massey, Ran Paul Make that makes it.
I mean, I guess Libertarians are used to making everyone mad,
so they don't care.
Speaker 4 (36:43):
Yeah, there's also something in the water, I guess in
Kentucky that explained Thomas Massey and Ram Paul.
Speaker 7 (36:50):
But otherwise, you know, so far.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
At least especially this term, Trump has had ninety nine
percent of Congressional Republicans going with him. As we get
closer to next election and they see there in real trouble,
maybe that will change. But again, the shortest way of
ending this nightmare is at the very least taking back
the House in twenty twenty six and getting ready for
twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
How worried are you about the redistricting.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
I'm very concerned about it. Look, I applaud what Gavin
Newsom is doing. Gavin, as a friend of you, known
each other a long time. He has shown real courage
and real leadership in this moment. I am sick and
tired of those on my side who embrace unilateral disarmament.
I'm glad that more people on my side are starting
to wake up and realize that era has to end.
(37:37):
We cannot have commissions in blue states and yet get
her teeth kicked in in red states. I believe we
should ban jerrymandering nationwide. I actually voted for that four
years ago, and a bill that was called HR one
had a lot of good government reforms, including a ban
on jerrymander. You would have independent, nonpartisan commissions in all
fifty states. But until we have a national solution, we
(38:01):
cannot have Blue states unilaterally disarming. And I would encourage
other Blue state governors to learn from the leadership of
Gavin Newsom and follow it accordingly. Because we see what
Republicans have already done in Texas and Missouri, they are
trying desperately to do the same thing in Indiana, and
in North Carolina and a number of other states. North
(38:24):
Carolina already has a deeply jerrymandered map, but Republicans are
so in love with jerrymandering they're going back to read
jerrymander the state they just jerrymandered only last election.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
Yeah, if Republicans are able to keep the House to jerrymandering,
it's hard to imagine things don't end really badly for everything.
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Well, that's a possibility that I don't discount. I would
point out that the average midterm election over the last
one hundred and fifty years is a pickup of on average,
twenty three seats. Just the last twenty years, we've seen
a higher figure than that in terms of the average,
and the best estimate, you know, Republicans have a three
seat majority. Now if California, if that initiative passes, it's
(39:08):
so important that proposition passes that would basically cancel out
the Republican gains in Texas through their new map.
Speaker 7 (39:15):
Even if you account for all the others, and even
if you.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
Say that Democrats refuse the follow suit in Maryland and Illinois,
then it looks like Republicans would net about a five
seat increase from all of this jerry manderin you add
to do you add that to the.
Speaker 7 (39:31):
Three seat majority they already have.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
Basically they would be at high single digits instead of
low single digits. Yeah, that's enough. They could still hold on.
But if we do what we need to do on
our side, we should be picking up a hell of
a lot more than eight seats next election.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Well, I mean, it is very unpopular what he's doing
now two.
Speaker 7 (39:49):
To one, but we say it's unpopular.
Speaker 4 (39:51):
Their agenda that they passed of the biggest tax cuts
in American history, paid for it through the biggest loss
of healthcare in American history and the biggest cuts to
other programs such as new nutrition assistance, student loan repayment programs,
et cetera. Most polls show that is more than twenty
points underwater. Some even show two to one disapproval over approval.
(40:14):
According to one professor who is quoted by CNN who
has tracked polling date over the last fifty years, he
said he has never seen any other piece of legislation
as deeply unpopular as the Republican tax bill.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yeah, because a minute's insane. It's the largest transfer of
wealth wealth right poor to the ruge. So you're in leadership.
Democrats have had a little bit of trouble getting their feet,
sort of finding their feet. I listened to this Belt
White podcast that I hate. That makes me so depressed.
That is like all of them like being like, you know,
(40:47):
I always say, like they put the fun in fascism,
and they're like, you know, oh, look at that tank,
it's so shiny. But what I think is interesting is
they even said like Republicans are not able to stay
on message the way Democrats are when it comes this shutdown.
And I've seen people like Hassan Piker, who's this wildly
(41:10):
popular YouTuber. I'm sure you know who he is. She
has been really hard on leadership probably you know, maybe
a little bit even I mean as hard as anyone,
and he saw Jeffries fighting with Mike Lawler and was like, hell, yeah,
what do you think that? What are the lessons here?
Speaker 4 (41:29):
I welcome this fight, as you know, Molly argued for it,
both internally and externally. I think we have to be
caught trying people get that we want to save the
healthcare of the American people. I think we're on strong
ground and firm ground, both substantively and politically. And I
think in this moment, I would point out that even
Donald Trump, much of the frustration, it turns out of
(41:53):
Mike Johnson and John Thune. Even Donald Trump, sitting in
the Oval Office, when asked about the shutdown, said well,
it's about healthcare. Yeah, that that was the success of
what we've been saying. This shutdown is about healthcare. It's
about the fact that Republicans just passed the tax bill
that will throw fifteen million Americans off their health insurance
(42:13):
according to the CBO, and will increase premiums for tens
and tens of millions more beginning literally.
Speaker 7 (42:20):
By the wayrus today in Idaho.
Speaker 4 (42:23):
The very first state to send out their letters of
the premium increases. In my own state, I've talked about
how close Pennsylvania is, biggest battleground state in the country.
On the Obamacare exchanges, it is estimated the average premium
increase will be a one hundred to two percent increase.
That is stagers, if you're used to paying five hundred
(42:44):
dollars a month overnight, you're paying one thousand dollars a month.
So that's what Democrats are fighting to prevent, and Republicans
are so hell bent on pushing through with this, they're
willing to shut down the government in order to make
sure it happens.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
ComRes mcboil, will you come back always?
Speaker 7 (43:00):
I'm happy to do it.
Speaker 6 (43:03):
No more perfectly.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Jesse Cannon Smiley, I am kind of obsessed with this
idea of the Trump administration trying to make Antifa into
a thing that is a real thing that's running around America.
But really, we all know that this is a way
that they can make a designation to start to round
up their enemies and pretend that people with signs that
(43:27):
rallies are a real threat to them.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, so this is this thing where Trump really really
wants to prosecute Democrats and he can't think of a
way to do that, so BONDI has made up something
called Antifa, which is not real. She says, it's no
different than MS thirteen. That is not true. That is like,
it's not it's not true. It's like what is more
(43:52):
not true than not true? Like what is it's not
even like anywhere near true. It's like it's not even close.
It's just not even any uh uh net know not true.
And she uses as proof the most reliable people in
the world, mega influencers, perhaps some who are paid by
(44:14):
foreign governments. She would like people to talk to those
mega influencers because they know the truth about the danger
of democrats. I'm sorry, but like, I guess there's someone
who believes this, But I feel like even the most
trumpy of Trumpers has to know this is ridiculous, right
(44:36):
or am I wrong?
Speaker 2 (44:38):
No? I mean largely what we saw at the White
House the other week was a bunch of losers whose
brand was built on when Antifo was active five years ago,
they were covering them. Now they're doing brand recovery, trying
to make themselves relevant again, and they went to the
White House and they're pretending this is the thing because
there's now political expiency. One of the most telling things
(44:59):
we saw this week was Glenn Beck did his usual
thing where he was ranting and raving and seeing things
he doesn't know what he's talking about about Antifa, and
he had to kind of go on air and be like,
so funny thing happened. Cash Hotel sent the FBI to
my house to hear about my evidence about Antifa existing,
because he's that giddy to find Antifa, and you'll be
shocked to your glad dad to kind of walk back
(45:20):
as usual bullshit that he didn't really have much evidence
of Antifa existing.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, this is like with everything, this is just bullshit.
It's worth realizing. Like I want to just point out
one other thing that's happening here, which is we're seeing
like a lot almost all the journalists who cover the Pentagon,
including Fox News, including everyone with the exception of Oam
giving up their Pentagon passes because Pete Hegsas made this
(45:50):
crazy oh that none of them would sign. And I
just want to point out I just want to go
back to this for one more second, because I feel
like this is the way you do it if you
are university solidarity. Everybody says they won't make the deal
as opposed to You can't just fight one at a time.
Got to do this as a group. That's the only
(46:13):
way to do any of this. And I just I
want to point that out again because you know, Antifa
may not be real, but when they come after universities
and media outlets and everything else like that, Senators, Republican senators,
everyone needs to stand up because if it's just one person,
it's much easier to ruin them, but if it's many,
(46:36):
then it's much harder for them.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
I can I talk to you about the real terrorist
threat I'm concerned about. Yes, these women who pick up
boulders on glass bridges that collapse, the Golden Retrievers get
the kids very scared about this. I've seen videos alike.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
And everyone needs to block the AI slum. Yes, I agree,
AI is not your friend. Block Allsora, block the slum.
That's what all I care about. Block this lap baby.
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best
(47:14):
minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If
you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend
and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
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