August 30, 2025 • 51 mins
The Nation’s Jeet Heer examines the damage caused by dismantling the U.S. government.
Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill details her run for New Jersey governor.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds. And Donald Trump has canceled former VP
Harris's Secret Service detail. We have such a great show
for you today. The Nation's get Here stops by to
talk about the damage done by disassembling the United States government.
(00:25):
Then we'll talk to Congresswoman Mikey Cheryl about her run
for New Jersey governor. But first we have the news Swally.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I know this administration is not so hot on facts, indicators, gauges,
other metrics, especially when it comes to the economy. But
the FED is their inflation gauge and ain't looking good.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, it turns out facts really care about Trump World's feelings.
I'm just kidding. So here's the deal. The head of
the Bureau of Labor Statistics revised the journalists claim Trump
fired her. The FED refused to lower interest rates. Trump
(01:11):
tried to fire Lisa Cook. We'll see what happens. Trump
would like to fire anyone who releases data that does
not say basically North Korean style. Mister Trump, you are
the greatest leader. And again, like that cabinet meeting that
happened this week where they were all going around like
who can make a bigger Trump statue. That's a little
(01:33):
bit about what's happening here. Trump is working really hard
to get rid of data which doesn't create the vibes
that he wants. The data's woke, Molly, Yeah, the datas woke.
Math is woke. But it's also like this has worked
for Trump, right. Trump has flooded the zone. He has
drowned out all the other noise. This has worked, So
why won't it work with this? And here's the problem.
(01:56):
The problem is if it works. The problem is if
people don't understand and what's coming these indicators. We have
these indicators for reason to guide us to make better decisions,
to help us avoid catastrophe. What's happening here is that
he's covering up information that will be useful for making
smarter decisions which can avoid catastrophe. So the core PCEE,
(02:21):
which excludes food and energy costs. And by the way,
I just want to point out, I'm in a place
that's quite expensive right now, but the gas here is
over four dollars a gallon the same with here. Yeah,
that seems very high to me, and especially because the
Trump administration is saying that gas is under two dollars
a gallon. I don't see that anywhere. So what it's
saying is compared to the same period a year ago,
(02:42):
the personal consumption Expenditures Price Index increased two point six
percent in July, so that means that inflation is up.
So now you have this problem, which I think is
really worth thinking about for a minute. Democrats got a
lot of flak for saying that inflation was transitory. You'll
remember that they got a lot of flack, and a
lot of conservative pundits were like, Democrats are lying about inflation.
(03:07):
Things are more expensive. They are not telling the truth.
And they were telling the truth, but they were trying
to explain it, and people didn't want to hear an explanation.
They just wanted things to be cheaper. Okay, now we
have inflation. It's actually happening, and it's not being caused
by a once in a lifetime pandemic. No, it's being
caused by what What's it been caused by by tariffs?
(03:28):
Tariffs and maybe some cutting of wind power, soul or
you know that we built all this expansion that Trump
is now trying to shut down, So probably some of
that and you know, some of the inflation is probably
being caused by a lot of anxiety when it comes
to businesses if you know, they don't know what's going
to happen. That's also from the terrafs. So you have
(03:50):
inflation here happening, the administration saying it's not happening, and
I think that it makes it much more dangerous you
know what's going to happen. Also, I want to add,
we look at this economy right now. The growth is
all coming from AI, this artificial intelligence which is going
to take away all our jobs and make us all
much much stupider, probably because it's going to write everything
(04:13):
for us.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Also, let someone to commit suicide this week, So maybe
that's what all happens then, Right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So the point is, you know, so much of the
growth in this economy is AI and not other things.
If that AI bubble bursts, there's a real thinking that
the rest of the economy will create. Also we've had
you know, So the point of all of this is
that knowing things is meant to help you, not hurt you.
(04:39):
And Trump's war on data is ultimately one of his
most destructive wars.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, and For the record, the national average for gas
right now is three dollars and twenty cents.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Okay, so where we are is more expensive.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, where we are is more expensive, but we're a
lot closer to the real price than mister Trump anyway,
So Maya, I'm going to be real here a lot
of time when I hear Latin my and goes, I'm
good on that. But I realized I had to learn
what a deminimous rule was this week, because it's looking
like it's about the fuck our economy pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, I was reading an article about this, and I
think it's really true. And I've written about this too,
that Trump world takes these zombie laws like the Comstock
Act or you know, different sort of stupid things we
abandoned in the past but that were never repealed. That
Trump uses to do a lot of things like prevent
the mailing of abortion pills. So this is a great example.
(05:29):
The deminimous exception was meant for buying things that were small.
I was introduced in nineteen thirty eight to avoid the
expense of collecting only small amounts of import duties into
the US. Now, why do you think that is? Because
very expensive to tear small things. Right.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, it's the same way that you let some things
ride because it's not even worth charging for them.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right. So you're going to buy a pair of pants,
the tariff is going to be whatever. Say you buy
a pair of pants that are one hundred dollars, the
tariff is seven bucks. So now you're going to have
a seven dollars tariff charge. By the way, I don't
know who they're hiring to do all of this, but
the point of this or not zero, but we went
from low, very targeted tariffs to whatever. This is the
(06:15):
point I want to make about this was it was
introduced in nineteen thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right, hummm, what was going on then?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I wonder what was going on there? And also, like
so much of what Trump is doing right now, it
feels like the run up to nineteen twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, I really like creator in the show when you
call big balls Franz Ferdinand. That's going to stick with
me for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Speaking of that era, that was pretty much my best moment.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Speaking of bad moments, this stuff with the massive walkouts
of the CDC. You know, sometimes we use the term
nightmare fuel. I like to call this nightmare jet fuel
because it's going to burn so bad.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
There's long been a discussion in certain sections of the
internet that maybe RFK Junior will be the most active
member of Trump's cabinet, and it's certainly looking that way.
So he has brought in people who are anti vax,
who are anti science. We talk about this all the time.
These people didn't go to the federal government because they
(07:13):
couldn't get better jobs. People who are at the CDC
went there because they wanted to help people, because they
felt the government was the best way to make the
world a better place. These are members who have gotten
fired because they didn't agree with the people RFK Junior
put in there. And remember RFK has this financial incentive
(07:34):
to create an anti vax world. So this is this.
Susan Moraz was asked the CDC director she had just
been sworn in. She was voted in on party lines.
Patty Murphy said something quite good about her. She said,
Jeer was this woman who was worried she wouldn't be
(07:56):
able to stand up to RFK Junior, and in fact
she stood so much that RFC Junior fired her. This
is another one where he may actually not be able
to fire her. There was a shooting at the CDC
earlier this month, and remember, seven hundred and fifty HHS
employees went public on August twentieth with a letter sent
(08:19):
to Kennedy in Congress accusing him of contributing to harassment
and violence against government employees. Bill Cassidy, if you're listening,
perhaps this is the moment to get in there and
do something. You are a doctor. You know what's happening here?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Not good.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So one of the things that we learned during the
making of our special on Project twenty twenty five was
that one of its authors, Russ Fought, is particularly supposedly
talented at being able to find the minutia of how
you get around these pesky government rules, and you get
in there and cancel things and fudge what the meaning
(08:59):
of these laws ment to these checks and balances. And
today we have another action like that where the White
House was declared almost five billion dollars in four and eight.
You know early, can't you knowatter? Early canceled?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
You know what's so interesting about that Project twenty twenty
five documentary that we did, which actually has aged extremely well.
And I take no pleasure in saying that because when
we were doing it, we were like, this is so insane,
this is so terrible, this is so like I remember
sitting there with you and be like, Eh, this is
what they're saying, but I don't know that they could
implement this. And it turns out, yes they can. What
(09:34):
I was so struck by was so much of it
was just how much Russ Fought, who had worked in
Trump's first administration, who had been in fact head of
omb in his first administration. So the Russavought really had
this idea and this is so much of this is
from Nixon. Russwot had this idea that he could just
(09:54):
cancel whatever he wanted because Congress was a bunch of cowards. Now,
I actually thought that Congress would want to keep some
of its power because these people are doing this job, right,
I mean they ran for office to get power.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Notoriously would you go into governments because you're a person
that is described as power hungry, right, But.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It turns out they're not power hungry when it comes
to standing up for themselves anyway. But all of this stuff,
like literally this idea that they'd be able to cancel
whatever they wanted, and that's The thing that's so stupid
when these members of Congress made deals with the Trump administration,
was like, what are you guys thinking, Like, it doesn't
(10:37):
matter what you they're not going to do what you
want them to do. I mean, this is when you
stop following the law, which this administration has done numerous times,
when you just decide you're going to do whatever you want,
you're just going to follow with vibes. When that happens,
stuff like this is what is the result. So they're
declaring four point nine billion and fourign canceled. They'd love
(11:02):
to cancel fore An aid. So this is I think
really important. We're about to have this government funding deadline
come up in September. There's a real question they need
Democrats to fund the government. Now, Trump, you'll remember, wants
the government to stop working. So I think it'll be
a real question here what happens, because there's no world
(11:24):
in which russ bought is like, oh, yeah, you're right,
this is bad. We shouldn't shut down the government. You know,
let's just we'll give that foreign aid. No, there's no
way that's going to happen. So I think the question
is what is the democrats threshold? For pain when it
comes to a shutdown, and if they shut down, who
blames who? Right? Will voters blame Democrats for a shutdown,
(11:47):
which is what Republicans say, or will voters understand that
this shutdown is because of the actions of the Trump
administration and that I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, it's a good question.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Get here is a contributor to the nation and the
host of the time of monsters. Welcome back to Fast Politics.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
G here always good to be on Fast Politics.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Fast we gotta get we gotta announce announced the brand
before we get going. You live in Canada, take me
with you.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Actually, let's go.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Big news of the last couple of days is what
RFK Junior has done to HHS.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
After promising Republican senators that he wouldn't do any of
that stuff, he did all of that stuff. So let's talk.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
About have predicted who could have predicted? But this uh
a crank who is in.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Rock Creek Park fired?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
All the doctors tell you who has parts of his
brain missing or what the act would act in an
erotic way. I could not have been predicted. No one
is to blame. Let's not question who nominated who I
mean in the long run. I mean, I do think
the RFK junior stuff, along with the general dismantling of
(13:20):
the civil service and the bureocracy, is going to be
the long run damage. And I think I'd like to
see the Democrats thinking a little bit harder about what's
going to be actually done to this to restore this,
because it's easier to destroy than to build, you know,
like people like to complain about red tape and buocracy,
but like a lot of like American government is actually
in a un remarkable achievement. I mean, if you think
(13:40):
of something like Social Security, you know, to be able
to send up all those texts and as it turns out,
like with remarkable efficiency because all the sort of bake
accounts that Elon Musk count were actually not receiving money.
It took like generations to build up that. It took
generations to you know, get rid of folio, to get
rid of beazls. But all things is like, you know,
one bad administration to dismantle that. And we don't know
(14:04):
what the short run factor is going to be, but
it's easy to imagine, like you know, like imagine COVID scenario,
but not with doctor FACI, but with RFK junior in charge,
it's likely to be very bad. I'm also think you'd
like in terms of the long run, like like who
will want to work for the government, Like, if you
have like any sort of like you know, skill in
(14:24):
science or medicine, do you want to like put your
life in a position where like it just takes one
crack plot Republican administration to like, you know, throw your
life work away. Yeah, yeah, I actually don't know. I mean, yeah,
we're supposed to be confident fundits, but I actually don't
know from a physician of humility, like how you get
(14:44):
back from that? How you I mean the comparison people
are throwing around is like Sinko, the crackpot geneticist that
the Stalin put in charge, you know, the stupid beliefs
that led to mast starvation in the nineteen thirties with
the old time sabotage really Soviet biology for decades to come,
(15:05):
even after he was gone. And I do actually see
a kind of similar scenario with I'll add another provisal,
which is like one has to think and all these
things in terms of like globally, the New York Times
had a very good article, very interesting article about how
China is like at the cusp of takeoff in terms
of medical research and biomedical research, that they have a
(15:29):
critical mass of scientists, they have the investment, and they
have a state that is very interested in us, and
you know that they already have some real achievements in
terms of their own COVID vaccine and other things.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
But we better at home that China is doing that because,
like I understand that from a competitive aspect, like while
China's eating our lunch and China is the biggest enemy
that the United States has, and we're just putting ourselves
back and back and back.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
But the reality is, if China's not doing this research,
no one.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
It's exactly this same with renewables. I mean, like you know,
like you know, like Adam Twos of Columbing University has
this kind of amazing chart where like you know, as
recently as twenty five years ago, China was less than
one percent of solar and the United States was the
global leader, and now it is, you know, the opposite
that China is nearly seventy percent and electric vehiculs cheaper.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
It's like that's you know, we're a country that's very
stupid like we you know, we subsidize oil and gas,
and we don't subsidize media. We don't subsidize newspapers, we
don't subsidize local news. We don't subsidize you know, anything
that seems like it might be make us smarter.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Well, we do have people who subsidize that, which is
people like Peter.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
TiO except for the right yeah, for the wrong room.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
For the exactly for the wrong reasons, that prefer for
damaging ways and the New York Times. I'd like, I
gut have to kind of basically look at the United
States and China in terms of science, and these are
two that have made two different beats. And China is
betting on that there will be like new developments in
the future and that they're going to invest in it,
(17:08):
and the US is really betting in the in the era,
in the area of energy, it's betting on possibleppeal, it's
betting on cold, it's beending on your twentieth century or
even nineteenth century technologies. And in the area of medicine,
it's investing in quack stuff. It's investing in ourcage. You're here,
who you know, I'm sorry, has deranged ideas. Yeah, I mean,
(17:31):
I mean I think that this is like kind of
like a really serious problem, and I don't even know
like where to begin, Like it fes like it goes
like well beyond like sort of Trump and Trump in
this sense has always been a symptom. I mean, it
is more about a country where, because of inequality and
poor education, you just don't have a public that has
(17:52):
been taught the value of science. And it's very you know,
like like the villagers in a Frankenstein movie. It is
like quick, they're like form a mob and say, like,
you know, we got to get rid of doctor Pozzi.
You know. Well, I mean, in the Frankistin movie makes sense,
Doctor Frankensin was bad, but actually in the real world,
science is good.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, And I think that's right. And so there's this
cdc HS says, there's this human services, the all of
the kind of medicine. So there's a real question about
what happens next if we have another pandemic. And then
there's also you know, the national security stuff. I mean,
(18:34):
I just feel like there are so many different bad
places we're in, But the one that I want to
talk to you about the most was tariffs because we're
seeing some you know, these tariffs are humongous. They are
in place in a lot of places, they're not thaughtful.
So for example, steel steel, there's like a fifty percent
tariffon steal. So it's cheaper probably to bring in things
(18:58):
with steel than to bring in steel and manufacture here.
So there's going to be all sorts of these dumb,
you know, kind of nuance e things and that where
you're going to have people manufacturing in other places because
of the tariffs are not thought out. There are so
many parts of the Trump administration that are not so many,
(19:19):
but there are a few things where there's a good
there's a grain of a good idea, and because they're
so incompetent, it's put together in such a way that
it's going to negate any upside.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah talks, And I think that's exactly right. I mean, like,
like you know, like I've never you know, bought this
sort of neoliberal line we'll always have free trade. I
think that there has been historically, like real examples of
like you know, well thought out industrial policy. I think
China itself is an example, as was Korea and South
(19:52):
Korea and Japan earlier, where like if you actually you know,
do industrial policy right, you can actually like you know,
growth the industries you want. But having said that, that's
how what Trump is doing a lot of it stuff
like makes like no sense. I mean, the one thing
I think about is India, where like suddenly there's like
fifty percent tariffs on India. This is a country where
(20:12):
you know, there's like was a bipartisan consensus going back
to the nineteen nineties of what you actually wanted, like
card of India is a growing power and it's an
alternative to China. And if the United States wants to
you know, you know, like have balance in Asia, it
needs to develop more ties with India. And Trump has
really just thrown that away. And as as you mention
with the steel, I mean, one other aspect is selling abroad.
(20:34):
I mean, like in Canada we kind of seal this
because you know, we're not gonna be able to sell
steel to the United States. But the other aspect is
because the United States under Trump is so deregulated into
environmentally bad our steel is actually like much more attractive
now to Europe because the carnage repression has put in
like regulations to have like sort of like carbon friendly steel.
(20:55):
And there's a lot of places in the world, especially
like in Europe, but not just Europe, in Asia as
well that are kind of like looking at these things,
and so you're basically going to create an alternative trading
block which is outside the United States, and one is
already kind of seeing less forming between the Europeans, Canada, Australia.
You look at countries like you know, India, which is
(21:17):
like you know, has real conflicts with China a lot more,
you know, a border conflict with China just five years ago,
but which is now like you know, looking to China's
a trade alternative. So basically what the terriff's worlds do
is like, if there's going to be the US is
a fortress US, well, the rest of the world will
just find ways to trade with each other.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
The thing about the tariffs is like that is actually
kind of a liberal policy, right, making sure that free
trade doesn't kill American manufacturing. Yeah, that's like a Bernie
Sanders policy that was you know, it wasn't a Bill
Clinton policy, but it has roots in American liberalism. Another
(21:57):
thing that does is this idea that more of a
sales tax, right, that's maybe not so liberal, but you
could see a corporate tax, which is very liberal. So
if you look at the tariffs, they are basically both
of who's paying the tariffs. Some of the tariff is
being paid by a corporation, so that's a corporate tax,
which is something Democrats have historically loved and Republicans have
(22:20):
historically hated. And some of it is being paid by
the consumers, which is a sales tax. So you have
Donald Trump and he's like, I have raised all of
these billions of dollars, but they're all taxes.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
No, I mean, I mean that's the other thing. The
tariff is like kind of a huge tax increase. Again,
like it's done in such a blunt and arbitrary way
that it's not absolutely clear what the goal is or
if you know, Like as I said, I'm a company's
favorite of industrial policy, and certainly, I mean I think
Biden was mixed success, but was trying to do like
(22:53):
industrial policy to rebuild manufacturing. I mean, with Trump with
the tariffs, I think that we shouldn't too much policy intelligence.
I think he's using the rhetoric and the language because
he knows that there are a lot of people in
the working class who have been angered by the way
that free trade worked against their address, and he can
take it harvest that anger. That's definitely the case. But
(23:15):
I mean, if you have actually look at the way
he's carried out tariffs, with all the sort of switches
going back and forth, like to me, it seems like
the real goal is just profit for Trump and his cronies.
Like it seems like the major is like a lot
of them to manipulate the stock market.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And tariffs are good for manipulating the stock market, and
they're also good for cutout where you can give your
friends deals.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
So yeah, I know, it's just the kind of crony
capitalism where like but also like getting everyone to kiss
the ring to like feed Trump's narcissism with all these
big companies, there's a reason why, like you know, cook
of Apple, like you know, give crump that ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Ji jaw because Tim Apple.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Yeah, yeah, so I don't that once you'd credit too
much policy in told just as it is the sort
of you know, manifestation of the same sort of like narcissism.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And ultimately like very kind of damaging. And I think, yeah,
I mean politically, I think the interesting thing is I
think we're gonna see the effects of this. We already
see the effects of this in terms of rising prices,
which you know, like Trump and them are gonna like,
you know, say, well this is d I or this
is like the Biden administration or whatever. But I mean,
like you you know, like a lot of this will
(24:28):
be eating up by consumers. And I don't know that
you're gonna have like a high wage plus high prices.
Post can make sense, but I actually don't see the
high wages aspect of red No, it's hard to see
this as anything other than it's gonna have a very
bad effect on ordinary people.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It feels like we're in the fuck around period now right,
like high tariffs, firing all the CDC. So much of
the federal government is redundndencies to keep things from falling apart,
so you know, you have like Social Security has redundancies. Yeah,
(25:08):
so that people get their checks, so that Big Balls
doesn't load everyone's information into an insecure cloud storage, which
there's a whistleblower report saying he did Big Balls. By
the way, is our our Duke bernand discuss.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, I don't. I mean, like it turns out that
he's also responsible for the occupation of Washington, d C. Yeah,
if it turns out that Twittin gains all of America's
nuclear secrets, that probably turns me that big balls is
the good And I look forward to the historians of
the future teaching about big balls to children as this
is the demand responsible for the fall of the American Empire.
(25:55):
But I me, I mean, the thing is like this,
you know, like the bureaucracy and the that this has
been a dream of the right for a long time.
And I think this is one reason why Trump is
still very power of Republican you know, he's he's he's
doing it. But you know, like we're actually gonna see, like,
you know, the real world consequences.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And we're gonna get to find out and whether it's
a pandemic or a financial crisis, it's coming.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
That's right exactly on that level. Like I actually do
kind of think, you know, like I would like to see,
you know, democrats be more like laying out like what
is that, you know, like an affirmative defense of government
and all the things that the CDC did, you know,
like I'm not actually seeing like a lot of defenses
of doctor FONTI. But you know like that, you know,
(26:43):
you do that more people died than they should that
Trump's fut but actually, you know, like like what was
actually achieved with Operation War Speed was kind of like
a miracle, and like, you know, like in terms of
eventually rebuilding, like you actually need people to make the
actual positive case that you know, government for government for
a strong state with like you know, like an independent
(27:04):
breocracy that is made up of experts, you know, who
have like a level of confidence in their job and
won't be fired by some idiot whose half of whose
brain has been by a worm. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I think that's a really good point. And in a
world with no mainstream media, which is really we don't
have it. We have the New York Times, that's it.
In a world where that you have that whole, it
falls on the opposition party to narrate what's happening. And
I'm sorry to tell you that unfortunately that opposition party
(27:37):
are the Democrat.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
It is true.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Something're gonna, yeah, they're gonna need to narrate what happens.
And I think one of the things I've been struck by,
and again you and I have different a little bit
different ideologies, but You're Canadians, so you have you're a
little smarter and a little nicer. I'm Americans. I'm a
little dumber and a little meaner. I do think that,
(28:01):
you know, the the Democrats who are able to narrate
this moment. Yeah, there's no other game there, you know,
there's no Walter Mondel for this moment.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, no, I mean I think that I
think that's exactly right. Like I actually do think, you know,
narrating the game. Actually, I think talking about like, you know,
the long term damages. I think people's senses. I think
that you know, like you see the sort of you know,
Bernie and aoc rallies, but you also see the protests,
like you know, the CDC, there's a lot of people
that came out, you know, to cheer on the fired
(28:33):
workers out in Atlanta. I think I think people have
like a basic level of understanding of like, you know
that we actually rely on these people. And I think
that this would actually be like a good message, and
it's a more in some ways. The one advantage of
this message is it's a more positive message than just
talking about how bad Trump.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
Is, because honestly, we've known this for ten years and
for some of us, like myself, like I maybe Trump
since the nineteen eighties, like I remember this guy from
the Central Park so so so so. Yeah, to talk
about like how terrible Trump is, Yes, we we already
know that, but like actually to make the case like
what kind of you know, like America do we want
(29:12):
at the end of this, and and to actually say that,
like you know, things like the CDC you'll have to
do a tremendous benefit to the America, you know, and
what is being done is sort of like a vandalism
and a destruction of the sort of you know, the
real patrimony and the real heritage of America is it's
it's obscene.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
You can't just be against things, Yeah, yeah, you have
to be for something.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
That's right now. You have to actually say what these
institutions do and why we need them. You know. That's
the kind of missing component. You know, one is hearing
some of this, but I would actually like to see
a more force square you know, a defense of all
these institutions, because I gotta tell you, like, at the
end of the day, they're gonna have to be revealed
at some point, like you know, like there's gonna be
some we don't know what the disasters that's coming is
(29:58):
going to be, but there will be something really bad
and at the end of it, like unless you have
an alternative narrative, what is going to happen? Is that
like if there's like a financial meltdown or a plague
trap and those guys will say was DEI or you know,
you actually have to like actually have something in place
(30:19):
so that people understand have a mental roadmap of what's
happening in the world. And I think that's the crucial
clinical agenda for this moment.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Jid here will you come back?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Of course, I love youing on this program.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Congresswoman Mikey Cheryl represents New Jersey's eleventh district and is
a candidate for governor in New Jersey. Welcome back to
Fast Politics, Mikey Shannon. Well, great to be here and
it's great to be back. Thanks so much. You're running
for governor of New Jersey. First, I want to know
how do you make that decision to go from Congress
(30:56):
because there are two of you in that group where
you guys went to Congress at the same time, are
very close and you have a list right the three
of you you Abigail and Alyssa are all very close
and you've all made these decisions. So how do you
make that decision to go from the House to the governorship.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
So, especially in speaking about Alyssa and Abigail and speaking
to them over the years, I think that when you
come from national security, when you come from in my
case the military was an EVY helicopter pilot, it's a
very proactive place. That is a place where you know,
the constant mantras are things like lead follower, get out
of the way. Are the only easy to do was yesterday?
(31:37):
You know, it's just this constant drum beat of getting
stuff accomplished. And really it makes a lot of sense. Right,
decisions have to be made in a crisis, calmly but quickly,
and then decisions have to be executed.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Results have to happen.
Speaker 7 (31:51):
There's not a lot of you know what, I'm standing
on the still getting shot at, and in about ten
years I'm going to make a decision about what the.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Best course of Actually, you really have to keep moving.
Speaker 7 (32:03):
And so I do think that there's this drive to serve,
there's this drive to get results, and there is especially
in a time like this, which I think certainly I
and I think both of those women view as a
time of crisis, there is a real need for leadership,
so constantly looking at how in these times can I
best lead, How can I make sure that I'm best
(32:24):
taking care of the people I'm serving, that I'm getting.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Results for them.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
And in my case, it's being governor that ability to
direct the plan and to execute and to get results
for people in a timely manner, and to sort of
work with everyone on that agenda and bring everyone together
on that mission. Because I have to tell you, you know,
here in New Jersey, we're facing an onslaught of crap
(32:49):
from the federal government that we're having to deal with
in a really destructive way, and we want to you know,
we're ready to do that, and we're ready to stand
up to that. But we're also facing some problems for
Trent where we're not moving quickly enough, where we're we've
got to cut through red tape and permitting issues, where
it takes too long to guests have accomplished, where costs
are just going up, up, up every year, and the root.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Causes of that aren't correctly addressed. So it's this.
Speaker 7 (33:13):
Desire right now to really take on these tough challenges
and to get to work right away.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
New Jersey had some really interesting elected you, Andrew, No,
but it's just a real rate. It's like been a
real sea change. Also because New Jersey used to have
a certain kind of politician and now you guys have
a very different kind of politician. You know, Democrats have
been in power for two terms. So you're running as
(33:39):
a change candidate, but to succeed another Democrat, how do
you make the case for that and how do you
sort of campaign on that but also opposed to that?
Speaker 7 (33:50):
Yeah, so you know, this is I think a really
critical election here in New Jersey. So we do have
interesting politics.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
We have tough politics.
Speaker 7 (33:59):
So we have more municipalities here in New Jersey then California,
so that gives a dense layer of people in elected
office and everyone, you know, kind of driving to deliver.
And so if you want to run here, you need
to be willing to take on tough challenges and you
need to be a tough fighter because nobody here in
politics puts up with somebody who's kind of going to
(34:22):
be a shrinking violot, Right, you need to get in
there and go. And so with that in mind taking
on these tough challenges, but also then an understanding here
in this state that this.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Is for all the marvels.
Speaker 7 (34:34):
This is the only statewide competitive race in the nation
the year after Trump got into office and is really
destroying the economy right now, So we know we have
a responsibility. I hear it all the time from the
people of New Jersey, like we are ready to do this.
And as we're hearing some of the national narratives about
concerns about engagement and stuff, here in New Jersey, we're
(34:57):
like on the front line of the fight and we're
ready to go. So for example, we saw the largest
turnout in the Democratic primary in the state of New
Jersey ever in June, so we have mobilized people. We
remain mobilized as the Democratic Party. We saw the divisions
in the party last year in New Jersey, we are
all coming together.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
We had a huge primary.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
We had a six person competitive primary in a way
that we rarely see in our state.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
For various reasons.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
People were fighting hard. But it's sort of like a
big Italian family where you kind of come together and
yell at each other and then at the day you
love each other and you come together and that's what
our Democratic Party is doing. So we are ready for
this fight. I get asked by people from outside New Jersey,
you know, are you guys going to do this? We
are going to do everything, you know, within our ability
to make sure that we are leading the way here
(35:44):
in New Jersey on how you both fight back against
the attacks on small businesses, on medicaid, on families, on
housing costs, on utility costs, and at the same time
deliver really great government here in the Garden State.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Trump kind of closed the gas in New Jersey sort
of shockingly, and I remember actually watching Don Lemon do
a live from New Jersey and asking people how they
were going to vote, and I was there were a
lot of Trump voters, a lot of like low frequency
voters who maybe didn't necessarily know what he was going
(36:20):
to do would affect them. You're in the state going around,
are you seeing any kind of Trump remorse? What is
it like there on the ground, Because I know they're
of tariffs, but some things haven't been passed on to
consumers yet, and I'm just curious.
Speaker 7 (36:35):
So costume and going up on New Jerseys for years now,
and people are frustrated with Trump, because he promised to
address those customs only made it worse.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
So sure people are upset, but is there this huge remorse.
I don't think I'm feeling that.
Speaker 7 (36:49):
But what there is is this desire to find a
leader who is going to address these issues in a
thoughtful way. And so I say that because this is
the least partisan race I've run in. People are exhausted
by a lot of what's been going on in this country.
They're exhausted by the vitriol, They're exhausted by the rage.
(37:11):
Many people who I'd say ten years ago were you know,
had maybe MSNBC on loop, you know, just watching or
even Fox News just watching it all the time, or
saying like, I'm not watching the news right now, I'm
knocking on the door. I'm talking to my friends and neighbors,
and people who, you know, even a couple of years
ago would have said, I've cut off my you know,
(37:33):
brother in law because he's a Trump voter are now
sort of like, yeah, you know, he's a Trump voter,
but you know, we all agree that we got to
get casts down here, and we just don't talk about
it right now. I think there is this willingness and
openness in a very different way to the conversations.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
And so whereas maybe.
Speaker 7 (37:54):
In a twenty eighteen, twenty twenty, twenty twenty two, twenty
twenty four, as I would be out saying like, look,
I'm running for governor, people say are you Democrat? And
if I said yes, they'd be like, I'm a Trump supporter.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
You know.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
It's just a veterans event the other day and everybody,
and you know, this was in my district, so people
know who I am. And I was speaking to a
bunch of people and there's a guy wearing a maga
haat and I'm just talking to his table and I'm like, hey,
I just wanted to check in. I'm you know, how
are you guys doing? And we were just talking and
you know, nobody said like when I reached out to
shake their hand or to say hell, nobody was like
(38:26):
you know, in the past that might have been the case,
but now I think people are looking to see what
can you deliver? And I think right now, with my
histories of veteran that lends credibility to people because I've
always served this country. This is not new i haven't
come this way. You know, I'm not doing this for
self interest. Nobody goes into the military to make gazillions, right, Like,
(38:46):
this is something that I've long served this country. I'm
continuing to serve this country. I've got four kids, so
I cared deeply about the future.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Of this state. And so people get why I'm at.
Speaker 7 (38:59):
This and so that alone, that level of integrity and
accountability speaks to people in a way that is, you know,
people are willing to say, Okay, so what's your plan?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
What are you going to do?
Speaker 7 (39:11):
And as we've spoken to thousands and thousands of people,
I think we've really honed in on what.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
It's going to take.
Speaker 7 (39:17):
And I would say, you know, people keep acting like
this is a real mystery. What do we need to do?
What do democrats need to do? I've never found it
very hard. I've been running since twenty eighteen. You go around,
you meet with as many people as humanly possible. You
hear about what those things are that are keeping them
up at night, and then you say, okay, would this
(39:38):
work if I did this, if I was able to
do this for you, would that make a difference in
your life?
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Would that help you sleep at night?
Speaker 7 (39:44):
And you know, you work until you find those answers,
and then you just go and speak to as many
more people as possible as you can to bring them
on board, and then you start to execute the minute
you get in office.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
And I got to tell you, I think that's what
people want.
Speaker 7 (39:59):
And they're just too many people in office now who
will say whatever you want to hear. And then they
get in office and they completely ignore you. And then
four years later they show up at your church and
they're there again.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Ay me again.
Speaker 7 (40:10):
That is the exact opposite of how I've always run
and how I've always delivered. And I have to tell you,
I think right now people just want to see who's
gonna really have me in mind, who's going to make
sure my kids are okay?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
And they're not seeing a lot of that. You have
a sort of bold plan to make energy prices cheaper,
Explain to us what that would be.
Speaker 7 (40:30):
So right now, we have an energy crisis in New
Jersey in the whole region for a lot of reasons,
and I would say some of it's our grid operator
PJAM And so we have a bipartisan group of governors
in the PGM region who are really holding them to account,
who are coming out I mean they have just taken
six years to get new power generation into the grid.
They've got huge amount of people in the queue. They've
(40:53):
screwed up the market, so prices have gone up exponentially.
We have the BPU, the Board of Public Utilities here
in New Jersey, who has seen this and kick the
can down the road. We've had the administration as and
appropriately addressed it. We have Trump who's now driving up
with a one big, beautiful bill energy costs by hundreds
of dollars. And so at the end of the day,
we have this crisis. And then I'm running against a
(41:14):
guy who's basically said that PJM, the grid operator who
stretches from here to Illinois at this point and is
in multiple states, is just some small nonprofit because he
wants to discount it and says that people have to
suffer a little pain with Trump's policies. Well, people are
suffering a lot of pain, and that's not okay. And
(41:35):
so instead of allowing all these alphabet soup of agencies
to put the costs on the back of families because
they've screwed this up, instead, I'm coming in and I'm
saying no. On day one, I'm declaring an emergency on
utility costs and freezing rate hikes, because then we are
going to push power into the grid. We're going to
(41:56):
get solar in battery storage almost immediately. We're going to
had through red tape and permitting so we can continue
to do that and then grow out the power plan
by modernizing our natural GaAs infrastructure and then looking to
nuclear in the future, because right now costs have just
gone up without a really legitimate strategy going forward with
how we're going to really push power into our state
(42:20):
and drive cost down.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
It's interesting to me that this is this new trumpy thing.
You have to have a little pain, But I mean
it's like with the two dollars instead of five dolls
there's no world in which they can bring back manufacturing
with the way they're doing the tariffs. This little pain
isn't going to like putting the grid on solar. It's
just going to like fuck ups and corruption. Right Well,
(42:42):
that's exactly right. The little pain is to enrich Trump
and his cronies. I mean, we've seen the biggest transfer
of wealth in the history of this nation since FDR
in the One Big Beautiful Bill, and so it's a
lot of working people, a lot of four people taking
on i'd say more than a little pain so that
the rich can get richer. How is this actually addressing
(43:03):
the deficit which they promised to How is this actually
getting costs down for people which they promised to do. Instead,
they're getting in these trade wars with Canada.
Speaker 7 (43:12):
So now small businesses who have North American supply chains
are going out of business. Big businesses are not employing people,
and you're seeing that in the jobs numbers, or you
were until Trump fired the people recording it. So this
idea that somehow we're all in this together and we're
all going to take on this pain for a better future. No,
we're all taking on pain so rich people can have
(43:34):
a better future and everyone else can just have crups
at the table.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
And that's again unacceptable.
Speaker 7 (43:39):
Time running for governor because in New Jersey we're going
to chart a different path forward, because again, if we
are going to build out a middle class, if we're
going to keep a strong, resilient middle class in our state,
we need strong leadership in the state.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
And again that's why I'm running for governor. Trump has
been taking aim at different states. We see that the
states with the governors who push back artists ultimately sort
of save themselves in a weird way. I feel like
we saw this now Trump, you know, saying he's going
to go into Chicago, and this sort of quick pushback
from PRITZKERGH has definitely been kind of the move you're
(44:14):
you know, hopefully going to be a governor. Who are
you sort of studying? What are you learning from watching
what's happening right now?
Speaker 7 (44:23):
I am looking at every possible way that as governor,
I am going to be able to stand against what's
going on in Washington and Donald Trump and stand for
the people of New Jersey and get better results for them.
It's everyone. It's the strong pushback. It's how you have
a strong attorney general. It's how you utilize law enforcement
(44:44):
in your state to keep people safe. It's how you
ensure that you are making sure your state programs are
running as efficiently as possible, so you can show people
effective government in contrast to what's going on. So you know,
whether it's Josh Shapiro and Wes Moore in handling a
crisis like a road collapse or bridge collapse, or whether
(45:05):
it's Gavin Newsom and effective communication and pushing back against Strumberg.
As you said, whether it's Pritzker or whether it's Gretchen Whitmer,
just you keeping it brass tax fixing the damn roads
again and again and again. It's really all of these
strong democratic governors that are the most effective people in
our party at pushing back against this. So that's why,
(45:29):
again I do think strong effective governors are the ones
that are going to be able to do this. And
that's why I think this race right here in twenty
twenty five is so seminal, because this is the one
statewide competitive race where we can really show what strong
democratic leadership and a plan looks like and grow that
(45:50):
out and set the table then for the future.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah. True. So I read this piece in The Times
today about you and ab Gail and Alyssa about your
national security background, and how basically I thought it was
interesting and also like slightly disturbing that it sort of
neutralizes your womanness, right, that it gives voters a little
(46:15):
bit of confidence that even though despite your being a woman,
you know, I mean I say this with air quotes,
but also with abject horror. I wonder if you could
talk us through that. I mean, look, the reality is
people just need to win. In my mind, it doesn't matter,
you know, what the permission structure looks like. There just
has to be one. But I'm just curious if you
(46:37):
could talk about that.
Speaker 7 (46:39):
Yeah, So I've always worked in male dominated spaces from
the time I was a teenager, right, That's when I
first went to the Naval Academy, which at that time
was under ten percent women. And then I went into
the military, and then I went into big corporate law firm,
and you know, and then I went into eventually went
into Congress. And I will say that an understanding of that,
(47:03):
you know, being comfortable in spaces like that and showing
success there, I think speaks to certain groups of people.
I would say as important or in some cases in
running I think for governor.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Even more important.
Speaker 7 (47:19):
To people is the fact that I'm a mom, because
I think that speaks to a lot of people about
who I fight for and why I'm doing it. So
the fact that I have four teenagers, I think people
feel a lot of sympathy for me.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
So that's nice.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
I only have.
Speaker 7 (47:33):
Three, so you get it regularly like oh, okay, we
got to help this lady. But they also get that,
like my focus is very much on not only the
opportunities and the governance that we need today.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
But I am looking.
Speaker 7 (47:48):
I've got the long play in mind, right because I
want to make sure that New Jersey is a place
where my kids can live, where my grandkids can live,
so that I can see them.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
You know, I'm a grandma. I mean all the stuff.
Speaker 7 (47:59):
People that New Jersey is a very you know, family
is really important here where are historically one of the
states with the most intergenerational family members because people stay close.
We care deeply about that. So being a mom is
actually really important. But I think having all of these
different aspects are always helpful in getting that you're really tough,
(48:21):
but you also really get it, you get where I'm
coming from. In fact, being a helicopter pilot, that part
can be off putting to some people because they're like, oh,
she might not get me. But then being a mom,
they're like, oh, yeah, she gets me. It's kind of
all the things you're trying to communicate. When I run,
I build out really broad coalitions to people. If we're
going to get done here in New Jersey, what I
want to get done, if we're going to make life
(48:41):
better for families.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
I'm not just trying to get you know, a few
niche people. I'm trying to get the state on.
Speaker 7 (48:47):
Board with the mission of how we're going to come
together as a community to take care of each other
and get a better future for everyone. And right now
we are being told from Trump's administration that you know,
as every man of self and that you know, this
is this environment of scarcity in the richest country in
the world, and so everybody's got to get what they
(49:07):
can get, and other groups and other people should be
pushed to the side because they're a threat to your success.
In New Jersey, that is not the case. I mean,
we are a state where we thrive because we have
so much innovation. We have so many different people coming
to the table. We have schools that help so many
different people succeed that that lifts us all up. We're
(49:29):
sort of a when we all do better, we all
do better state. That's what we're driving in right now.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Mikey, Cheryl, thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 7 (49:38):
Well, as always, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
We could use the help.
Speaker 7 (49:42):
Like I said, we are the competitive race in the
cycle now. So if you want a phone bank or
text bank, or donate or comeknock doors with us.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Please go to mikey Cheryl.
Speaker 7 (49:50):
Dot com slash volunt here because we would love the support.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
We're all so far Jesse Kanna, my.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Junk fast Tulci Gabbert. Every time I think of her,
I think of when mister Trump said, they don't bring
us their best. That's all I can think of.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Is her? Not all two colored hair? Not all two
colored hair.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
I'm so sorry that you have a brand to go
over a lap with her.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
I have a branding overlap with her. Look, the hair
is good, everything else is bad. She is the Director
of National Intelligence, or in this case, Director of National stupid.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
The ironically named Director of National Intelligence.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So the Wall Street General reports that, I mean, this
is so insane. She revealed the identity of an undercover officer.
She made a stupid mistake. A smart director of National
Intelligence would have consulted with the CIA. He put the
CIA cover procedures at risk, could put relationships with foreign governments.
(50:53):
I don't think we have anymore. That was a risk.
She has been in this month long campaign to make
Trump love her again. The most important point of this
very very, very very stupid story is that they're never ever, ever, ever,
ever ever playing three dimensional chess. That's it for this
(51:18):
episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,
and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make
sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds. And Donald Trump has canceled former VP
Harris's Secret Service detail. We have such a great show
for you today. The Nation's get Here stops by to
talk about the damage done by disassembling the United States government.
(00:25):
Then we'll talk to Congresswoman Mikey Cheryl about her run
for New Jersey governor. But first we have the news Swally.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I know this administration is not so hot on facts, indicators, gauges,
other metrics, especially when it comes to the economy. But
the FED is their inflation gauge and ain't looking good.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, it turns out facts really care about Trump World's feelings.
I'm just kidding. So here's the deal. The head of
the Bureau of Labor Statistics revised the journalists claim Trump
fired her. The FED refused to lower interest rates. Trump
(01:11):
tried to fire Lisa Cook. We'll see what happens. Trump
would like to fire anyone who releases data that does
not say basically North Korean style. Mister Trump, you are
the greatest leader. And again, like that cabinet meeting that
happened this week where they were all going around like
who can make a bigger Trump statue. That's a little
(01:33):
bit about what's happening here. Trump is working really hard
to get rid of data which doesn't create the vibes
that he wants. The data's woke, Molly, Yeah, the datas woke.
Math is woke. But it's also like this has worked
for Trump, right. Trump has flooded the zone. He has
drowned out all the other noise. This has worked, So
why won't it work with this? And here's the problem.
(01:56):
The problem is if it works. The problem is if
people don't understand and what's coming these indicators. We have
these indicators for reason to guide us to make better decisions,
to help us avoid catastrophe. What's happening here is that
he's covering up information that will be useful for making
smarter decisions which can avoid catastrophe. So the core PCEE,
(02:21):
which excludes food and energy costs. And by the way,
I just want to point out, I'm in a place
that's quite expensive right now, but the gas here is
over four dollars a gallon the same with here. Yeah,
that seems very high to me, and especially because the
Trump administration is saying that gas is under two dollars
a gallon. I don't see that anywhere. So what it's
saying is compared to the same period a year ago,
(02:42):
the personal consumption Expenditures Price Index increased two point six
percent in July, so that means that inflation is up.
So now you have this problem, which I think is
really worth thinking about for a minute. Democrats got a
lot of flak for saying that inflation was transitory. You'll
remember that they got a lot of flack, and a
lot of conservative pundits were like, Democrats are lying about inflation.
(03:07):
Things are more expensive. They are not telling the truth.
And they were telling the truth, but they were trying
to explain it, and people didn't want to hear an explanation.
They just wanted things to be cheaper. Okay, now we
have inflation. It's actually happening, and it's not being caused
by a once in a lifetime pandemic. No, it's being
caused by what What's it been caused by by tariffs?
(03:28):
Tariffs and maybe some cutting of wind power, soul or
you know that we built all this expansion that Trump
is now trying to shut down, So probably some of
that and you know, some of the inflation is probably
being caused by a lot of anxiety when it comes
to businesses if you know, they don't know what's going
to happen. That's also from the terrafs. So you have
(03:50):
inflation here happening, the administration saying it's not happening, and
I think that it makes it much more dangerous you
know what's going to happen. Also, I want to add,
we look at this economy right now. The growth is
all coming from AI, this artificial intelligence which is going
to take away all our jobs and make us all
much much stupider, probably because it's going to write everything
(04:13):
for us.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Also, let someone to commit suicide this week, So maybe
that's what all happens then, Right.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
So the point is, you know, so much of the
growth in this economy is AI and not other things.
If that AI bubble bursts, there's a real thinking that
the rest of the economy will create. Also we've had
you know, So the point of all of this is
that knowing things is meant to help you, not hurt you.
(04:39):
And Trump's war on data is ultimately one of his
most destructive wars.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, and For the record, the national average for gas
right now is three dollars and twenty cents.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Okay, so where we are is more expensive.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, where we are is more expensive, but we're a
lot closer to the real price than mister Trump anyway,
So Maya, I'm going to be real here a lot
of time when I hear Latin my and goes, I'm
good on that. But I realized I had to learn
what a deminimous rule was this week, because it's looking
like it's about the fuck our economy pretty bad.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Yeah, I was reading an article about this, and I
think it's really true. And I've written about this too,
that Trump world takes these zombie laws like the Comstock
Act or you know, different sort of stupid things we
abandoned in the past but that were never repealed. That
Trump uses to do a lot of things like prevent
the mailing of abortion pills. So this is a great example.
(05:29):
The deminimous exception was meant for buying things that were small.
I was introduced in nineteen thirty eight to avoid the
expense of collecting only small amounts of import duties into
the US. Now, why do you think that is? Because
very expensive to tear small things. Right.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, it's the same way that you let some things
ride because it's not even worth charging for them.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Right. So you're going to buy a pair of pants,
the tariff is going to be whatever. Say you buy
a pair of pants that are one hundred dollars, the
tariff is seven bucks. So now you're going to have
a seven dollars tariff charge. By the way, I don't
know who they're hiring to do all of this, but
the point of this or not zero, but we went
from low, very targeted tariffs to whatever. This is the
(06:15):
point I want to make about this was it was
introduced in nineteen thirty eight.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
Right, hummm, what was going on then?
Speaker 1 (06:23):
I wonder what was going on there? And also, like
so much of what Trump is doing right now, it
feels like the run up to nineteen twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah, I really like creator in the show when you
call big balls Franz Ferdinand. That's going to stick with
me for quite a while.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Speaking of that era, that was pretty much my best moment.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Speaking of bad moments, this stuff with the massive walkouts
of the CDC. You know, sometimes we use the term
nightmare fuel. I like to call this nightmare jet fuel
because it's going to burn so bad.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
There's long been a discussion in certain sections of the
internet that maybe RFK Junior will be the most active
member of Trump's cabinet, and it's certainly looking that way.
So he has brought in people who are anti vax,
who are anti science. We talk about this all the time.
These people didn't go to the federal government because they
(07:13):
couldn't get better jobs. People who are at the CDC
went there because they wanted to help people, because they
felt the government was the best way to make the
world a better place. These are members who have gotten
fired because they didn't agree with the people RFK Junior
put in there. And remember RFK has this financial incentive
(07:34):
to create an anti vax world. So this is this.
Susan Moraz was asked the CDC director she had just
been sworn in. She was voted in on party lines.
Patty Murphy said something quite good about her. She said,
Jeer was this woman who was worried she wouldn't be
(07:56):
able to stand up to RFK Junior, and in fact
she stood so much that RFC Junior fired her. This
is another one where he may actually not be able
to fire her. There was a shooting at the CDC
earlier this month, and remember, seven hundred and fifty HHS
employees went public on August twentieth with a letter sent
(08:19):
to Kennedy in Congress accusing him of contributing to harassment
and violence against government employees. Bill Cassidy, if you're listening,
perhaps this is the moment to get in there and
do something. You are a doctor. You know what's happening here?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Not good.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
So one of the things that we learned during the
making of our special on Project twenty twenty five was
that one of its authors, Russ Fought, is particularly supposedly
talented at being able to find the minutia of how
you get around these pesky government rules, and you get
in there and cancel things and fudge what the meaning
(08:59):
of these laws ment to these checks and balances. And
today we have another action like that where the White
House was declared almost five billion dollars in four and eight.
You know early, can't you knowatter? Early canceled?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
You know what's so interesting about that Project twenty twenty
five documentary that we did, which actually has aged extremely well.
And I take no pleasure in saying that because when
we were doing it, we were like, this is so insane,
this is so terrible, this is so like I remember
sitting there with you and be like, Eh, this is
what they're saying, but I don't know that they could
implement this. And it turns out, yes they can. What
(09:34):
I was so struck by was so much of it
was just how much Russ Fought, who had worked in
Trump's first administration, who had been in fact head of
omb in his first administration. So the Russavought really had
this idea and this is so much of this is
from Nixon. Russwot had this idea that he could just
(09:54):
cancel whatever he wanted because Congress was a bunch of cowards. Now,
I actually thought that Congress would want to keep some
of its power because these people are doing this job, right,
I mean they ran for office to get power.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Notoriously would you go into governments because you're a person
that is described as power hungry, right, But.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
It turns out they're not power hungry when it comes
to standing up for themselves anyway. But all of this stuff,
like literally this idea that they'd be able to cancel
whatever they wanted, and that's The thing that's so stupid
when these members of Congress made deals with the Trump administration,
was like, what are you guys thinking, Like, it doesn't
(10:37):
matter what you they're not going to do what you
want them to do. I mean, this is when you
stop following the law, which this administration has done numerous times,
when you just decide you're going to do whatever you want,
you're just going to follow with vibes. When that happens,
stuff like this is what is the result. So they're
declaring four point nine billion and fourign canceled. They'd love
(11:02):
to cancel fore An aid. So this is I think
really important. We're about to have this government funding deadline
come up in September. There's a real question they need
Democrats to fund the government. Now, Trump, you'll remember, wants
the government to stop working. So I think it'll be
a real question here what happens, because there's no world
(11:24):
in which russ bought is like, oh, yeah, you're right,
this is bad. We shouldn't shut down the government. You know,
let's just we'll give that foreign aid. No, there's no
way that's going to happen. So I think the question
is what is the democrats threshold? For pain when it
comes to a shutdown, and if they shut down, who
blames who? Right? Will voters blame Democrats for a shutdown,
(11:47):
which is what Republicans say, or will voters understand that
this shutdown is because of the actions of the Trump
administration and that I don't know.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah, it's a good question.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Get here is a contributor to the nation and the
host of the time of monsters. Welcome back to Fast Politics.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
G here always good to be on Fast Politics.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Fast we gotta get we gotta announce announced the brand
before we get going. You live in Canada, take me
with you.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Actually, let's go.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
Big news of the last couple of days is what
RFK Junior has done to HHS.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah that's right. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
After promising Republican senators that he wouldn't do any of
that stuff, he did all of that stuff. So let's talk.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
About have predicted who could have predicted? But this uh
a crank who is in.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Rock Creek Park fired?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
All the doctors tell you who has parts of his
brain missing or what the act would act in an
erotic way. I could not have been predicted. No one
is to blame. Let's not question who nominated who I
mean in the long run. I mean, I do think
the RFK junior stuff, along with the general dismantling of
(13:20):
the civil service and the bureocracy, is going to be
the long run damage. And I think I'd like to
see the Democrats thinking a little bit harder about what's
going to be actually done to this to restore this,
because it's easier to destroy than to build, you know,
like people like to complain about red tape and buocracy,
but like a lot of like American government is actually
in a un remarkable achievement. I mean, if you think
(13:40):
of something like Social Security, you know, to be able
to send up all those texts and as it turns out,
like with remarkable efficiency because all the sort of bake
accounts that Elon Musk count were actually not receiving money.
It took like generations to build up that. It took
generations to you know, get rid of folio, to get
rid of beazls. But all things is like, you know,
one bad administration to dismantle that. And we don't know
(14:04):
what the short run factor is going to be, but
it's easy to imagine, like you know, like imagine COVID scenario,
but not with doctor FACI, but with RFK junior in charge,
it's likely to be very bad. I'm also think you'd
like in terms of the long run, like like who
will want to work for the government, Like, if you
have like any sort of like you know, skill in
(14:24):
science or medicine, do you want to like put your
life in a position where like it just takes one
crack plot Republican administration to like, you know, throw your
life work away. Yeah, yeah, I actually don't know. I mean, yeah,
we're supposed to be confident fundits, but I actually don't
know from a physician of humility, like how you get
(14:44):
back from that? How you I mean the comparison people
are throwing around is like Sinko, the crackpot geneticist that
the Stalin put in charge, you know, the stupid beliefs
that led to mast starvation in the nineteen thirties with
the old time sabotage really Soviet biology for decades to come,
(15:05):
even after he was gone. And I do actually see
a kind of similar scenario with I'll add another provisal,
which is like one has to think and all these
things in terms of like globally, the New York Times
had a very good article, very interesting article about how
China is like at the cusp of takeoff in terms
of medical research and biomedical research, that they have a
(15:29):
critical mass of scientists, they have the investment, and they
have a state that is very interested in us, and
you know that they already have some real achievements in
terms of their own COVID vaccine and other things.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
But we better at home that China is doing that because,
like I understand that from a competitive aspect, like while
China's eating our lunch and China is the biggest enemy
that the United States has, and we're just putting ourselves
back and back and back.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
But the reality is, if China's not doing this research,
no one.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
It's exactly this same with renewables. I mean, like you know,
like you know, like Adam Twos of Columbing University has
this kind of amazing chart where like you know, as
recently as twenty five years ago, China was less than
one percent of solar and the United States was the
global leader, and now it is, you know, the opposite
that China is nearly seventy percent and electric vehiculs cheaper.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
It's like that's you know, we're a country that's very
stupid like we you know, we subsidize oil and gas,
and we don't subsidize media. We don't subsidize newspapers, we
don't subsidize local news. We don't subsidize you know, anything
that seems like it might be make us smarter.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Well, we do have people who subsidize that, which is
people like Peter.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
TiO except for the right yeah, for the wrong room.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
For the exactly for the wrong reasons, that prefer for
damaging ways and the New York Times. I'd like, I
gut have to kind of basically look at the United
States and China in terms of science, and these are
two that have made two different beats. And China is
betting on that there will be like new developments in
the future and that they're going to invest in it,
(17:08):
and the US is really betting in the in the era,
in the area of energy, it's betting on possibleppeal, it's
betting on cold, it's beending on your twentieth century or
even nineteenth century technologies. And in the area of medicine,
it's investing in quack stuff. It's investing in ourcage. You're here,
who you know, I'm sorry, has deranged ideas. Yeah, I mean,
(17:31):
I mean I think that this is like kind of
like a really serious problem, and I don't even know
like where to begin, Like it fes like it goes
like well beyond like sort of Trump and Trump in
this sense has always been a symptom. I mean, it
is more about a country where, because of inequality and
poor education, you just don't have a public that has
(17:52):
been taught the value of science. And it's very you know,
like like the villagers in a Frankenstein movie. It is
like quick, they're like form a mob and say, like,
you know, we got to get rid of doctor Pozzi.
You know. Well, I mean, in the Frankistin movie makes sense,
Doctor Frankensin was bad, but actually in the real world,
science is good.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, And I think that's right. And so there's this
cdc HS says, there's this human services, the all of
the kind of medicine. So there's a real question about
what happens next if we have another pandemic. And then
there's also you know, the national security stuff. I mean,
(18:34):
I just feel like there are so many different bad
places we're in, But the one that I want to
talk to you about the most was tariffs because we're
seeing some you know, these tariffs are humongous. They are
in place in a lot of places, they're not thaughtful.
So for example, steel steel, there's like a fifty percent
tariffon steal. So it's cheaper probably to bring in things
(18:58):
with steel than to bring in steel and manufacture here.
So there's going to be all sorts of these dumb,
you know, kind of nuance e things and that where
you're going to have people manufacturing in other places because
of the tariffs are not thought out. There are so
many parts of the Trump administration that are not so many,
(19:19):
but there are a few things where there's a good
there's a grain of a good idea, and because they're
so incompetent, it's put together in such a way that
it's going to negate any upside.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah talks, And I think that's exactly right. I mean, like,
like you know, like I've never you know, bought this
sort of neoliberal line we'll always have free trade. I
think that there has been historically, like real examples of
like you know, well thought out industrial policy. I think
China itself is an example, as was Korea and South
(19:52):
Korea and Japan earlier, where like if you actually you know,
do industrial policy right, you can actually like you know,
growth the industries you want. But having said that, that's
how what Trump is doing a lot of it stuff
like makes like no sense. I mean, the one thing
I think about is India, where like suddenly there's like
fifty percent tariffs on India. This is a country where
(20:12):
you know, there's like was a bipartisan consensus going back
to the nineteen nineties of what you actually wanted, like
card of India is a growing power and it's an
alternative to China. And if the United States wants to
you know, you know, like have balance in Asia, it
needs to develop more ties with India. And Trump has
really just thrown that away. And as as you mention
with the steel, I mean, one other aspect is selling abroad.
(20:34):
I mean, like in Canada we kind of seal this
because you know, we're not gonna be able to sell
steel to the United States. But the other aspect is
because the United States under Trump is so deregulated into
environmentally bad our steel is actually like much more attractive
now to Europe because the carnage repression has put in
like regulations to have like sort of like carbon friendly steel.
(20:55):
And there's a lot of places in the world, especially
like in Europe, but not just Europe, in Asia as
well that are kind of like looking at these things,
and so you're basically going to create an alternative trading
block which is outside the United States, and one is
already kind of seeing less forming between the Europeans, Canada, Australia.
You look at countries like you know, India, which is
(21:17):
like you know, has real conflicts with China a lot more,
you know, a border conflict with China just five years ago,
but which is now like you know, looking to China's
a trade alternative. So basically what the terriff's worlds do
is like, if there's going to be the US is
a fortress US, well, the rest of the world will
just find ways to trade with each other.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
The thing about the tariffs is like that is actually
kind of a liberal policy, right, making sure that free
trade doesn't kill American manufacturing. Yeah, that's like a Bernie
Sanders policy that was you know, it wasn't a Bill
Clinton policy, but it has roots in American liberalism. Another
(21:57):
thing that does is this idea that more of a
sales tax, right, that's maybe not so liberal, but you
could see a corporate tax, which is very liberal. So
if you look at the tariffs, they are basically both
of who's paying the tariffs. Some of the tariff is
being paid by a corporation, so that's a corporate tax,
which is something Democrats have historically loved and Republicans have
(22:20):
historically hated. And some of it is being paid by
the consumers, which is a sales tax. So you have
Donald Trump and he's like, I have raised all of
these billions of dollars, but they're all taxes.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
No, I mean, I mean that's the other thing. The
tariff is like kind of a huge tax increase. Again,
like it's done in such a blunt and arbitrary way
that it's not absolutely clear what the goal is or
if you know, Like as I said, I'm a company's
favorite of industrial policy, and certainly, I mean I think
Biden was mixed success, but was trying to do like
(22:53):
industrial policy to rebuild manufacturing. I mean, with Trump with
the tariffs, I think that we shouldn't too much policy intelligence.
I think he's using the rhetoric and the language because
he knows that there are a lot of people in
the working class who have been angered by the way
that free trade worked against their address, and he can
take it harvest that anger. That's definitely the case. But
(23:15):
I mean, if you have actually look at the way
he's carried out tariffs, with all the sort of switches
going back and forth, like to me, it seems like
the real goal is just profit for Trump and his cronies.
Like it seems like the major is like a lot
of them to manipulate the stock market.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And tariffs are good for manipulating the stock market, and
they're also good for cutout where you can give your
friends deals.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
So yeah, I know, it's just the kind of crony
capitalism where like but also like getting everyone to kiss
the ring to like feed Trump's narcissism with all these
big companies, there's a reason why, like you know, cook
of Apple, like you know, give crump that ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Ji jaw because Tim Apple.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Yeah, yeah, so I don't that once you'd credit too
much policy in told just as it is the sort
of you know, manifestation of the same sort of like narcissism.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
And ultimately like very kind of damaging. And I think, yeah,
I mean politically, I think the interesting thing is I
think we're gonna see the effects of this. We already
see the effects of this in terms of rising prices,
which you know, like Trump and them are gonna like,
you know, say, well this is d I or this
is like the Biden administration or whatever. But I mean,
like you you know, like a lot of this will
(24:28):
be eating up by consumers. And I don't know that
you're gonna have like a high wage plus high prices.
Post can make sense, but I actually don't see the
high wages aspect of red No, it's hard to see
this as anything other than it's gonna have a very
bad effect on ordinary people.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It feels like we're in the fuck around period now right,
like high tariffs, firing all the CDC. So much of
the federal government is redundndencies to keep things from falling apart,
so you know, you have like Social Security has redundancies. Yeah,
(25:08):
so that people get their checks, so that Big Balls
doesn't load everyone's information into an insecure cloud storage, which
there's a whistleblower report saying he did Big Balls. By
the way, is our our Duke bernand discuss.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, I don't. I mean, like it turns out that
he's also responsible for the occupation of Washington, d C. Yeah,
if it turns out that Twittin gains all of America's
nuclear secrets, that probably turns me that big balls is
the good And I look forward to the historians of
the future teaching about big balls to children as this
is the demand responsible for the fall of the American Empire.
(25:55):
But I me, I mean, the thing is like this,
you know, like the bureaucracy and the that this has
been a dream of the right for a long time.
And I think this is one reason why Trump is
still very power of Republican you know, he's he's he's
doing it. But you know, like we're actually gonna see, like,
you know, the real world consequences.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And we're gonna get to find out and whether it's
a pandemic or a financial crisis, it's coming.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
That's right exactly on that level. Like I actually do
kind of think, you know, like I would like to see,
you know, democrats be more like laying out like what
is that, you know, like an affirmative defense of government
and all the things that the CDC did, you know,
like I'm not actually seeing like a lot of defenses
of doctor FONTI. But you know like that, you know,
(26:43):
you do that more people died than they should that
Trump's fut but actually, you know, like like what was
actually achieved with Operation War Speed was kind of like
a miracle, and like, you know, like in terms of
eventually rebuilding, like you actually need people to make the
actual positive case that you know, government for government for
a strong state with like you know, like an independent
(27:04):
breocracy that is made up of experts, you know, who
have like a level of confidence in their job and
won't be fired by some idiot whose half of whose
brain has been by a worm. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
I think that's a really good point. And in a
world with no mainstream media, which is really we don't
have it. We have the New York Times, that's it.
In a world where that you have that whole, it
falls on the opposition party to narrate what's happening. And
I'm sorry to tell you that unfortunately that opposition party
(27:37):
are the Democrat.
Speaker 3 (27:39):
It is true.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Something're gonna, yeah, they're gonna need to narrate what happens.
And I think one of the things I've been struck by,
and again you and I have different a little bit
different ideologies, but You're Canadians, so you have you're a
little smarter and a little nicer. I'm Americans. I'm a
little dumber and a little meaner. I do think that,
(28:01):
you know, the the Democrats who are able to narrate
this moment. Yeah, there's no other game there, you know,
there's no Walter Mondel for this moment.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Yeah yeah, yeah, no, I mean I think that I
think that's exactly right. Like I actually do think, you know,
narrating the game. Actually, I think talking about like, you know,
the long term damages. I think people's senses. I think
that you know, like you see the sort of you know,
Bernie and aoc rallies, but you also see the protests,
like you know, the CDC, there's a lot of people
that came out, you know, to cheer on the fired
(28:33):
workers out in Atlanta. I think I think people have
like a basic level of understanding of like, you know
that we actually rely on these people. And I think
that this would actually be like a good message, and
it's a more in some ways. The one advantage of
this message is it's a more positive message than just
talking about how bad Trump.
Speaker 6 (28:51):
Is, because honestly, we've known this for ten years and
for some of us, like myself, like I maybe Trump
since the nineteen eighties, like I remember this guy from
the Central Park so so so so. Yeah, to talk
about like how terrible Trump is, Yes, we we already
know that, but like actually to make the case like
what kind of you know, like America do we want
(29:12):
at the end of this, and and to actually say that,
like you know, things like the CDC you'll have to
do a tremendous benefit to the America, you know, and
what is being done is sort of like a vandalism
and a destruction of the sort of you know, the
real patrimony and the real heritage of America is it's
it's obscene.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
You can't just be against things, Yeah, yeah, you have
to be for something.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
That's right now. You have to actually say what these
institutions do and why we need them. You know. That's
the kind of missing component. You know, one is hearing
some of this, but I would actually like to see
a more force square you know, a defense of all
these institutions, because I gotta tell you, like, at the
end of the day, they're gonna have to be revealed
at some point, like you know, like there's gonna be
some we don't know what the disasters that's coming is
(29:58):
going to be, but there will be something really bad
and at the end of it, like unless you have
an alternative narrative, what is going to happen? Is that
like if there's like a financial meltdown or a plague
trap and those guys will say was DEI or you know,
you actually have to like actually have something in place
(30:19):
so that people understand have a mental roadmap of what's
happening in the world. And I think that's the crucial
clinical agenda for this moment.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
Jid here will you come back?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Of course, I love youing on this program.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Congresswoman Mikey Cheryl represents New Jersey's eleventh district and is
a candidate for governor in New Jersey. Welcome back to
Fast Politics, Mikey Shannon. Well, great to be here and
it's great to be back. Thanks so much. You're running
for governor of New Jersey. First, I want to know
how do you make that decision to go from Congress
(30:56):
because there are two of you in that group where
you guys went to Congress at the same time, are
very close and you have a list right the three
of you you Abigail and Alyssa are all very close
and you've all made these decisions. So how do you
make that decision to go from the House to the governorship.
Speaker 7 (31:16):
So, especially in speaking about Alyssa and Abigail and speaking
to them over the years, I think that when you
come from national security, when you come from in my
case the military was an EVY helicopter pilot, it's a
very proactive place. That is a place where you know,
the constant mantras are things like lead follower, get out
of the way. Are the only easy to do was yesterday?
(31:37):
You know, it's just this constant drum beat of getting
stuff accomplished. And really it makes a lot of sense. Right,
decisions have to be made in a crisis, calmly but quickly,
and then decisions have to be executed.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
Results have to happen.
Speaker 7 (31:51):
There's not a lot of you know what, I'm standing
on the still getting shot at, and in about ten
years I'm going to make a decision about what the.
Speaker 1 (31:58):
Best course of Actually, you really have to keep moving.
Speaker 7 (32:03):
And so I do think that there's this drive to serve,
there's this drive to get results, and there is especially
in a time like this, which I think certainly I
and I think both of those women view as a
time of crisis, there is a real need for leadership,
so constantly looking at how in these times can I
best lead, How can I make sure that I'm best
(32:24):
taking care of the people I'm serving, that I'm getting.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Results for them.
Speaker 7 (32:27):
And in my case, it's being governor that ability to
direct the plan and to execute and to get results
for people in a timely manner, and to sort of
work with everyone on that agenda and bring everyone together
on that mission. Because I have to tell you, you know,
here in New Jersey, we're facing an onslaught of crap
(32:49):
from the federal government that we're having to deal with
in a really destructive way, and we want to you know,
we're ready to do that, and we're ready to stand
up to that. But we're also facing some problems for
Trent where we're not moving quickly enough, where we're we've
got to cut through red tape and permitting issues, where
it takes too long to guests have accomplished, where costs
are just going up, up, up every year, and the root.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Causes of that aren't correctly addressed. So it's this.
Speaker 7 (33:13):
Desire right now to really take on these tough challenges
and to get to work right away.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
New Jersey had some really interesting elected you, Andrew, No,
but it's just a real rate. It's like been a
real sea change. Also because New Jersey used to have
a certain kind of politician and now you guys have
a very different kind of politician. You know, Democrats have
been in power for two terms. So you're running as
(33:39):
a change candidate, but to succeed another Democrat, how do
you make the case for that and how do you
sort of campaign on that but also opposed to that?
Speaker 7 (33:50):
Yeah, so you know, this is I think a really
critical election here in New Jersey. So we do have
interesting politics.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
We have tough politics.
Speaker 7 (33:59):
So we have more municipalities here in New Jersey then California,
so that gives a dense layer of people in elected
office and everyone, you know, kind of driving to deliver.
And so if you want to run here, you need
to be willing to take on tough challenges and you
need to be a tough fighter because nobody here in
politics puts up with somebody who's kind of going to
(34:22):
be a shrinking violot, Right, you need to get in
there and go. And so with that in mind taking
on these tough challenges, but also then an understanding here
in this state that this.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Is for all the marvels.
Speaker 7 (34:34):
This is the only statewide competitive race in the nation
the year after Trump got into office and is really
destroying the economy right now, So we know we have
a responsibility. I hear it all the time from the
people of New Jersey, like we are ready to do this.
And as we're hearing some of the national narratives about
concerns about engagement and stuff, here in New Jersey, we're
(34:57):
like on the front line of the fight and we're
ready to go. So for example, we saw the largest
turnout in the Democratic primary in the state of New
Jersey ever in June, so we have mobilized people. We
remain mobilized as the Democratic Party. We saw the divisions
in the party last year in New Jersey, we are
all coming together.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
We had a huge primary.
Speaker 7 (35:17):
We had a six person competitive primary in a way
that we rarely see in our state.
Speaker 1 (35:21):
For various reasons.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
People were fighting hard. But it's sort of like a
big Italian family where you kind of come together and
yell at each other and then at the day you
love each other and you come together and that's what
our Democratic Party is doing. So we are ready for
this fight. I get asked by people from outside New Jersey,
you know, are you guys going to do this? We
are going to do everything, you know, within our ability
to make sure that we are leading the way here
(35:44):
in New Jersey on how you both fight back against
the attacks on small businesses, on medicaid, on families, on
housing costs, on utility costs, and at the same time
deliver really great government here in the Garden State.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Trump kind of closed the gas in New Jersey sort
of shockingly, and I remember actually watching Don Lemon do
a live from New Jersey and asking people how they
were going to vote, and I was there were a
lot of Trump voters, a lot of like low frequency
voters who maybe didn't necessarily know what he was going
(36:20):
to do would affect them. You're in the state going around,
are you seeing any kind of Trump remorse? What is
it like there on the ground, Because I know they're
of tariffs, but some things haven't been passed on to
consumers yet, and I'm just curious.
Speaker 7 (36:35):
So costume and going up on New Jerseys for years now,
and people are frustrated with Trump, because he promised to
address those customs only made it worse.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
So sure people are upset, but is there this huge remorse.
I don't think I'm feeling that.
Speaker 7 (36:49):
But what there is is this desire to find a
leader who is going to address these issues in a
thoughtful way. And so I say that because this is
the least partisan race I've run in. People are exhausted
by a lot of what's been going on in this country.
They're exhausted by the vitriol, They're exhausted by the rage.
(37:11):
Many people who I'd say ten years ago were you know,
had maybe MSNBC on loop, you know, just watching or
even Fox News just watching it all the time, or
saying like, I'm not watching the news right now, I'm
knocking on the door. I'm talking to my friends and neighbors,
and people who, you know, even a couple of years
ago would have said, I've cut off my you know,
(37:33):
brother in law because he's a Trump voter are now
sort of like, yeah, you know, he's a Trump voter,
but you know, we all agree that we got to
get casts down here, and we just don't talk about
it right now. I think there is this willingness and
openness in a very different way to the conversations.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
And so whereas maybe.
Speaker 7 (37:54):
In a twenty eighteen, twenty twenty, twenty twenty two, twenty
twenty four, as I would be out saying like, look,
I'm running for governor, people say are you Democrat? And
if I said yes, they'd be like, I'm a Trump supporter.
Speaker 4 (38:05):
You know.
Speaker 7 (38:05):
It's just a veterans event the other day and everybody,
and you know, this was in my district, so people
know who I am. And I was speaking to a
bunch of people and there's a guy wearing a maga
haat and I'm just talking to his table and I'm like, hey,
I just wanted to check in. I'm you know, how
are you guys doing? And we were just talking and
you know, nobody said like when I reached out to
shake their hand or to say hell, nobody was like
(38:26):
you know, in the past that might have been the case,
but now I think people are looking to see what
can you deliver? And I think right now, with my
histories of veteran that lends credibility to people because I've
always served this country. This is not new i haven't
come this way. You know, I'm not doing this for
self interest. Nobody goes into the military to make gazillions, right, Like,
(38:46):
this is something that I've long served this country. I'm
continuing to serve this country. I've got four kids, so
I cared deeply about the future.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Of this state. And so people get why I'm at.
Speaker 7 (38:59):
This and so that alone, that level of integrity and
accountability speaks to people in a way that is, you know,
people are willing to say, Okay, so what's your plan?
Speaker 1 (39:09):
What are you going to do?
Speaker 7 (39:11):
And as we've spoken to thousands and thousands of people,
I think we've really honed in on what.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
It's going to take.
Speaker 7 (39:17):
And I would say, you know, people keep acting like
this is a real mystery. What do we need to do?
What do democrats need to do? I've never found it
very hard. I've been running since twenty eighteen. You go around,
you meet with as many people as humanly possible. You
hear about what those things are that are keeping them
up at night, and then you say, okay, would this
(39:38):
work if I did this, if I was able to
do this for you, would that make a difference in
your life?
Speaker 1 (39:42):
Would that help you sleep at night?
Speaker 7 (39:44):
And you know, you work until you find those answers,
and then you just go and speak to as many
more people as possible as you can to bring them
on board, and then you start to execute the minute
you get in office.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
And I got to tell you, I think that's what
people want.
Speaker 7 (39:59):
And they're just too many people in office now who
will say whatever you want to hear. And then they
get in office and they completely ignore you. And then
four years later they show up at your church and
they're there again.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Ay me again.
Speaker 7 (40:10):
That is the exact opposite of how I've always run
and how I've always delivered. And I have to tell you,
I think right now people just want to see who's
gonna really have me in mind, who's going to make
sure my kids are okay?
Speaker 1 (40:21):
And they're not seeing a lot of that. You have
a sort of bold plan to make energy prices cheaper,
Explain to us what that would be.
Speaker 7 (40:30):
So right now, we have an energy crisis in New
Jersey in the whole region for a lot of reasons,
and I would say some of it's our grid operator
PJAM And so we have a bipartisan group of governors
in the PGM region who are really holding them to account,
who are coming out I mean they have just taken
six years to get new power generation into the grid.
They've got huge amount of people in the queue. They've
(40:53):
screwed up the market, so prices have gone up exponentially.
We have the BPU, the Board of Public Utilities here
in New Jersey, who has seen this and kick the
can down the road. We've had the administration as and
appropriately addressed it. We have Trump who's now driving up
with a one big, beautiful bill energy costs by hundreds
of dollars. And so at the end of the day,
we have this crisis. And then I'm running against a
(41:14):
guy who's basically said that PJM, the grid operator who
stretches from here to Illinois at this point and is
in multiple states, is just some small nonprofit because he
wants to discount it and says that people have to
suffer a little pain with Trump's policies. Well, people are
suffering a lot of pain, and that's not okay. And
(41:35):
so instead of allowing all these alphabet soup of agencies
to put the costs on the back of families because
they've screwed this up, instead, I'm coming in and I'm
saying no. On day one, I'm declaring an emergency on
utility costs and freezing rate hikes, because then we are
going to push power into the grid. We're going to
(41:56):
get solar in battery storage almost immediately. We're going to
had through red tape and permitting so we can continue
to do that and then grow out the power plan
by modernizing our natural GaAs infrastructure and then looking to
nuclear in the future, because right now costs have just
gone up without a really legitimate strategy going forward with
how we're going to really push power into our state
(42:20):
and drive cost down.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
It's interesting to me that this is this new trumpy thing.
You have to have a little pain, But I mean
it's like with the two dollars instead of five dolls
there's no world in which they can bring back manufacturing
with the way they're doing the tariffs. This little pain
isn't going to like putting the grid on solar. It's
just going to like fuck ups and corruption. Right Well,
(42:42):
that's exactly right. The little pain is to enrich Trump
and his cronies. I mean, we've seen the biggest transfer
of wealth in the history of this nation since FDR
in the One Big Beautiful Bill, and so it's a
lot of working people, a lot of four people taking
on i'd say more than a little pain so that
the rich can get richer. How is this actually addressing
(43:03):
the deficit which they promised to How is this actually
getting costs down for people which they promised to do. Instead,
they're getting in these trade wars with Canada.
Speaker 7 (43:12):
So now small businesses who have North American supply chains
are going out of business. Big businesses are not employing people,
and you're seeing that in the jobs numbers, or you
were until Trump fired the people recording it. So this
idea that somehow we're all in this together and we're
all going to take on this pain for a better future. No,
we're all taking on pain so rich people can have
(43:34):
a better future and everyone else can just have crups
at the table.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
And that's again unacceptable.
Speaker 7 (43:39):
Time running for governor because in New Jersey we're going
to chart a different path forward, because again, if we
are going to build out a middle class, if we're
going to keep a strong, resilient middle class in our state,
we need strong leadership in the state.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
And again that's why I'm running for governor. Trump has
been taking aim at different states. We see that the
states with the governors who push back artists ultimately sort
of save themselves in a weird way. I feel like
we saw this now Trump, you know, saying he's going
to go into Chicago, and this sort of quick pushback
from PRITZKERGH has definitely been kind of the move you're
(44:14):
you know, hopefully going to be a governor. Who are
you sort of studying? What are you learning from watching
what's happening right now?
Speaker 7 (44:23):
I am looking at every possible way that as governor,
I am going to be able to stand against what's
going on in Washington and Donald Trump and stand for
the people of New Jersey and get better results for them.
It's everyone. It's the strong pushback. It's how you have
a strong attorney general. It's how you utilize law enforcement
(44:44):
in your state to keep people safe. It's how you
ensure that you are making sure your state programs are
running as efficiently as possible, so you can show people
effective government in contrast to what's going on. So you know,
whether it's Josh Shapiro and Wes Moore in handling a
crisis like a road collapse or bridge collapse, or whether
(45:05):
it's Gavin Newsom and effective communication and pushing back against Strumberg.
As you said, whether it's Pritzker or whether it's Gretchen Whitmer,
just you keeping it brass tax fixing the damn roads
again and again and again. It's really all of these
strong democratic governors that are the most effective people in
our party at pushing back against this. So that's why,
(45:29):
again I do think strong effective governors are the ones
that are going to be able to do this. And
that's why I think this race right here in twenty
twenty five is so seminal, because this is the one
statewide competitive race where we can really show what strong
democratic leadership and a plan looks like and grow that
(45:50):
out and set the table then for the future.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Yeah. True. So I read this piece in The Times
today about you and ab Gail and Alyssa about your
national security background, and how basically I thought it was
interesting and also like slightly disturbing that it sort of
neutralizes your womanness, right, that it gives voters a little
(46:15):
bit of confidence that even though despite your being a woman,
you know, I mean I say this with air quotes,
but also with abject horror. I wonder if you could
talk us through that. I mean, look, the reality is
people just need to win. In my mind, it doesn't matter,
you know, what the permission structure looks like. There just
has to be one. But I'm just curious if you
(46:37):
could talk about that.
Speaker 7 (46:39):
Yeah, So I've always worked in male dominated spaces from
the time I was a teenager, right, That's when I
first went to the Naval Academy, which at that time
was under ten percent women. And then I went into
the military, and then I went into big corporate law firm,
and you know, and then I went into eventually went
into Congress. And I will say that an understanding of that,
(47:03):
you know, being comfortable in spaces like that and showing
success there, I think speaks to certain groups of people.
I would say as important or in some cases in
running I think for governor.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Even more important.
Speaker 7 (47:19):
To people is the fact that I'm a mom, because
I think that speaks to a lot of people about
who I fight for and why I'm doing it. So
the fact that I have four teenagers, I think people
feel a lot of sympathy for me.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
So that's nice.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
I only have.
Speaker 7 (47:33):
Three, so you get it regularly like oh, okay, we
got to help this lady. But they also get that,
like my focus is very much on not only the
opportunities and the governance that we need today.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
But I am looking.
Speaker 7 (47:48):
I've got the long play in mind, right because I
want to make sure that New Jersey is a place
where my kids can live, where my grandkids can live,
so that I can see them.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
You know, I'm a grandma. I mean all the stuff.
Speaker 7 (47:59):
People that New Jersey is a very you know, family
is really important here where are historically one of the
states with the most intergenerational family members because people stay close.
We care deeply about that. So being a mom is
actually really important. But I think having all of these
different aspects are always helpful in getting that you're really tough,
(48:21):
but you also really get it, you get where I'm
coming from. In fact, being a helicopter pilot, that part
can be off putting to some people because they're like, oh,
she might not get me. But then being a mom,
they're like, oh, yeah, she gets me. It's kind of
all the things you're trying to communicate. When I run,
I build out really broad coalitions to people. If we're
going to get done here in New Jersey, what I
want to get done, if we're going to make life
(48:41):
better for families.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
I'm not just trying to get you know, a few
niche people. I'm trying to get the state on.
Speaker 7 (48:47):
Board with the mission of how we're going to come
together as a community to take care of each other
and get a better future for everyone. And right now
we are being told from Trump's administration that you know,
as every man of self and that you know, this
is this environment of scarcity in the richest country in
the world, and so everybody's got to get what they
(49:07):
can get, and other groups and other people should be
pushed to the side because they're a threat to your success.
In New Jersey, that is not the case. I mean,
we are a state where we thrive because we have
so much innovation. We have so many different people coming
to the table. We have schools that help so many
different people succeed that that lifts us all up. We're
(49:29):
sort of a when we all do better, we all
do better state. That's what we're driving in right now.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
Mikey, Cheryl, thank you so much for joining.
Speaker 7 (49:38):
Well, as always, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1 (49:40):
We could use the help.
Speaker 7 (49:42):
Like I said, we are the competitive race in the
cycle now. So if you want a phone bank or
text bank, or donate or comeknock doors with us.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Please go to mikey Cheryl.
Speaker 7 (49:50):
Dot com slash volunt here because we would love the support.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
We're all so far Jesse Kanna, my.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Junk fast Tulci Gabbert. Every time I think of her,
I think of when mister Trump said, they don't bring
us their best. That's all I can think of.
Speaker 1 (50:07):
Is her? Not all two colored hair? Not all two
colored hair.
Speaker 2 (50:13):
I'm so sorry that you have a brand to go
over a lap with her.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
I have a branding overlap with her. Look, the hair
is good, everything else is bad. She is the Director
of National Intelligence, or in this case, Director of National stupid.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
The ironically named Director of National Intelligence.
Speaker 1 (50:32):
So the Wall Street General reports that, I mean, this
is so insane. She revealed the identity of an undercover officer.
She made a stupid mistake. A smart director of National
Intelligence would have consulted with the CIA. He put the
CIA cover procedures at risk, could put relationships with foreign governments.
(50:53):
I don't think we have anymore. That was a risk.
She has been in this month long campaign to make
Trump love her again. The most important point of this
very very, very very stupid story is that they're never ever, ever, ever,
ever ever playing three dimensional chess. That's it for this
(51:18):
episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,
and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make
sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
Thanks for listening.
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
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