November 20, 2025 • 44 mins
The New Republic’s Meredith Shiner examines how everyday citizens are fighting back against ICE.
Then The Bulwark’s Will Sommer details how MAGA infighting is weakening Trump’s administration.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds and national NPR PBS News Maris Paul
shows that Democrats have a fourteen point lead in the
generic ballot if the midterms were held today. We have
(00:23):
such a great show for you today. The New Republic's
Meredith Shiner joins us to talk about how everyday citizens
are fighting back against Ice. Then we'll talk to the
Bulwarks own Will Sommer about how MAGA infighting is weakening
the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But first the news.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Smile. You know what lives rent free in my head
every day is when Trump was on the stump and
COVID was surging and he screamed, we have to slow
it down about the testing. Today we got news that
the BLS is kidsley October jobs reports due to the
government shutdown. Head, I just feel the same energy somehow.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yes, Trump has long been a fan of not counting numbers.
I think that's fair. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
We like to say is Nemesis is the count of
Sesame Street.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
That's right. Well, no, he doesn't like that. Muslim math. This,
by the way, Muslim math is a throwback to Veep
when Jonah says we don't like Muslim math. Okay, I'm
not saying anything except that Jonah discovers that math comes
from the Islamic countries. I means, right, and so he
(01:34):
calls it Islamic math. And this is a follow up
to that Donald Trump doesn't like math. Look, I know
that everyone has forgotten about this, but Donald Trump did
fire the head of the Bureau of Labor and Statistics
because he did not like the numbers. So this makes
quite a lot of sense that he would not allow
(01:55):
this to be released because of the shutdown. But I
want to point out that even if you don't don't
know the math, you know, even if you don't read
the New York Times, even if you don't read the news,
it's still happening.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
You can't stop it. But you know what he can control.
So I'm going to take you back to recent times
when Trump would threaten to fire Jerome Powell, and what
would happen? The stock market would crush? What did he
do again? Today?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Threatened to fire Jerome pal did the stock market crash?
I haven't seen this stock market.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Well, it's a little early to tell. Where a little
earlier the day. But let me give you the exact
quote of what you said. I'd love to fire his ass.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, Jerome pal You know who hired his ass, Donald Trump.
One more thought on Jerome Palll being the chairman of
the FED is like sort of the highest government job
for a fancy economist. Here it is, you're this fancy economist.
You have this job, You're the FED chair and you
have this like gangster president being like a what to
(02:53):
fire is ass?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Like you have to wonder Jerome pal must be just
like what was I think thinking when I took this
fucking job? Because he can you know, if he quits,
it's extremely bad for the markets. He's got to sort
of keep riding this thing out. And he's almost done,
his appointments, almost done. But you have to think, like
this guy is so I mean, he is not. There's
(03:16):
no winning here, right, Like this is an actual confident
guy who could just have a normal job.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Truly, he did not read Rick Wilson's tomb. Everything Trump
touches dies and really consider his place in this. But
I want to get into an interesting trend we have
in congress. Censure. It's all the rage these days in
Congress and stripping people at covies. So particularly, we have
Representative Nancy Mace, who I think a lot of people
(03:42):
who've worked for her have called for a wellness check on.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Before we started recording, we were talking about this and
I said, oh, well, good for Nancy Mays for trying
to censure fellow Republican Corey Mills. She's ousting him from committees.
That's good, and you explained it in a way that
made a lot of sense. So I'm going to have
you be the explainer here and explain to us what's
really happening here.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So in the past for something like this, let's remember
Corey Mills has not been criminally charged, but he's had
two accusations and now a restraining order by past people
he was sexually involved with. And so what is happening
here is usually things like this in a Congress of
many years ago would be you'd get your ass thrown
(04:24):
out and potentially your seat would go up. But now
we've had to move the goalpost because the majority is
so slim on the GOP side, and so now it's
just a little censorship and get off of the committees.
Then Nancy mas can continue pretending her brand is protecting
women and things like that, while she bullis trans people
all day every day.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Right, So this is actually the kind of three dimensional
chests that we actually don't see Republicans do so much
because usually they're not that smart. You know, there's something
to be said politically for this because it's smart, which
is she is doing this so she looks like a
feminist fighter when in fact she's really just enabling more
(05:03):
of the usual from him.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, we should say there was a vote about Schuey
Garcia's pretty shady move to get their chief of staff
to succeed them in Congress, and then as well one
that failed about the Virgin Islands Rep. Stacy Plaskett getting
texts from Jeffrey EPs while questioning people in Congress, which,
yike's bad stuff there, Stacy that we could do better
(05:27):
with the Democrats than this stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Not good.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, you know, let's also remember Nancy Mace also did
a really vile, vile centerre of Villain Omar in the
past two Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
No, no, but we haven't seen Republicans do things that
seem like they're one thing but are actually something else.
So it is a little bit smart for them. I'm
just gonna come out and say it. They're not usually
smart about political stuff like this, So.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, I agree with you, Somai. We have House Majority
Leader Mike Johnson. The House obviously passed yesterday as we
discussed the release of the Epstein five, and the Senate
says they're going to move fast on it.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
They signed off on it last night.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yes, and did you see though Mike Johnson's reaction.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Please play it? I did. In fact, it's my ring tone.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Now, Oh wow, that's that's such a throwback for you.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, especially because I have never had the ringer on.
But please play it. Because he is shook.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
The bill without adding amendments or changing it. I am.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I'm deeply disappointed in this outcome.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I think I'm told I've been at the state dinner.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I was just told to rushed it to the floor
and put it out there preemptively.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It needed amendments. I just spoke to President about that.
We'll see what happened.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So is he do you think he may be?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know what you say, I'm not saying that. I'm
kind of sad that the crop on the video is
right above where his pets might be Pete.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You're so naughty. That is an incredible video. And what's
so interesting about it is this impetition past the House
four hundred and fifty whatever to one.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
The only vote against it was Rep. Clay Higgins. And
my joke has been is that's because he represents the
district of the Carcosa in True Detective season one, and
we know what happened there.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
This is like a too deep a cut, baby.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
It's one of the most popular TV shows of the decade.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Come on, I know, but it's like you have to
you have to explain it. You're losing anyway. The point
here is that I think you are absolutely right, and
I think that to watch this, they are so unprepared
for these Epstein files, despite the fact that like they
knew this was coming, and they still are so unprepared.
(07:44):
It's kind of amazing. I have so I just am
so impressed that at so many points these guys have
they've had a chance to deal with it, and they
just have not been able to figure out how to.
Meredith Shiner is a contributing editor at The New Republic.
(08:04):
Welcome to Fast Politics, Meredith.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
By Mollie. Thank you for having me back.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'm so excited to have you. So you are in Chicago,
which is right now sort of the center of the
ice Buckery, talk us through what's happening. It has like
kind of not been in the national spotlight as much
as it was before, but it doesn't mean it's not
still happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I mean, just like all of the other indicators of
our democratic collapse, I think this is something that's persistent
and people are living with. And obviously this week Greg
Borbino and the Custom and Border Patrol gang ended up
descending onto Charlotte and we're seeing them use a similar
playbook there. And so one of the things that I've
been trying to do in my writing at The New
(08:47):
Republic is really give people a cent of what it's
like to live here in Chicago and the things that
are deeply distressing and terrorizing about being a person who
lives and engages in works and sends kids to school
in the neighborhood, but also some of the things that
can be a playbook for optimism and resistance. You know,
I think one of the main themes that I see
(09:10):
every day here and when I hear hear from people
in my circles you know, I think sometimes resistance can
feel really overwhelming, like there's this huge barrier to entry
that you have to be at protests, that you have
to be face to face with some of these ICE agents,
like we're seeing in some of the footage that did
get national attention at the Broadview Ice facility just outside
(09:30):
of Chicago, because those standoffs look so dramatic to both
the news editor's eye and I think to the normal eye.
And what life here has taught us and what I've
really tried to show in our writing is that living
in this kind of democratic distress, it doesn't have to
be or feel so dramatic to actually stand up for
(09:51):
your neighbors. And so some of the things that we're
seeing simply and some of the things that I wrote
about even in organizing around Halloween, is that people show
up at drop off and pick up time at elementary
schools just to be an extra set of eyes and ears.
You make sure that you carry a whistle in your
pocket because you want to make sure that anyone around
you might know that ICE is present.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
One of the sad truths and realities about this holistic
attack on our communities is that they're happening in every
community across the city. You know, someone was taken a
delivery app driver was taken from our independent grocery store
five blocks from our house, and that organized people around
the elementary school, which is two blocks from our house.
And so I think what people need to know is that,
(10:35):
you know, it feels like this randomized terror. It almost
feels like the way to describe it is living in
America that's marked by school shootings that you always sort
of have this fear that it could happen to you,
and where it happened could be anywhere, and so part
of that terror is the design. But the thing that
is hopeful is that everyday people are showing up and
(10:55):
they're showing their neighbors that they care, and they're intervening
in ways that are really excited and also changing the
curve on how people or if people are taken.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, it's really interesting and important. I wonder if you
could talk a little bit about what people do to
draw attention to ice.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, I absolutely can do that. And I feel like
the thing is is that it was so grassroots, So
whistles are so important. I got a text message from
a friend from college who currently lives in Charlotte, and
that came in over the weekends, and one of the
things she says is like, well, what should I know
about Ice coming here? And I said, everyone needs a whistle, right,
So there were all of these whistle packing parties at
(11:37):
bars and parent groups and all of these different places
across the city where people pack the whistle with these
mini like leaflets that talked about what to do if
you see a federal agent trying to like execute a kidnapping,
and the whistle like devices that you should do so
(11:58):
like three short whistles if ICE is in the area,
and three protracted whistles if someone is actively being taken.
Things like that, Like it's easy to keep a whistle
with you, it's easy to remember some of those systems,
and it's about like becoming a bystander in your own life.
There were a lot of makeshift sort of signal group
(12:18):
chats and places where people in the neighborhood would share
sort of intelligence about these cars, what plates they were,
where they might be heading, so that way you can
keep an eye out. And I would say, there's something
in part that feels empowering about that that you have
this awareness that you feel like there's something that you
can do, but it also can feel really overwhelming because
(12:40):
all of these contexts within which you're doing your everyday life,
they're being invaded by people who are acting without regard
to the law, who are acting out of hate, who
are taking people who are just trying to live their lives.
To me, and one of the things that I wrote
about in one of my recent essays at the New
Public was the story of a sixteen year old girl
(13:03):
who has stage four cancer, who's undergoing chemotherapy, who is weak,
and who's struggling to survive, and her dad was taken
from a home depot parking lot, and the huge fight
and the amount of local news coverage and the amount
of organizing that helped raise awareness for this case so
her dad could be released so he could be with
her as he went through chemotherapy. The other week, a
(13:26):
daycare teacher from an infant room was taken at a
drop off time in front of other staff, in front
of toddlers, in front of infants and parents, and that
very night a thousand people congregated in this neighborhood to
try to protest so that she would be released, and
since then she has, and so I think you're seeing
this intersection of people caring and being engaged and also
(13:51):
the power of how being informed can really inspire us
to action. One of the things I've been talking about
recently also is how good local news coverage has been.
We have a lot of independent journalists here, but we
also have reporters from our major publications, whether it's the
Chicago Sun Times or the Tribune or the TV networks,
who have been covering this both as an international story
(14:14):
about what happens when the US government gets corrupted, but
also a local neighborhood story what happens when people are
taken from their neighborhoods, from their families, from their communities.
And I think that they've done a really nice job
in balancing how to humanize our neighbors while also creating
a sense of urgency and seriousness around what's happening. And
(14:36):
to me, as someone who has done a fair share
of criticism of national media, that's also been really instructive too,
because it turns out that when we give people accurate information,
when we give people information and news that both explains
the stakes of what's happening, but also the humans who
are involved people are aware and recognizing what's happening. They
(15:00):
don't like it, and to me like that accuracy and
impact in journalism is one of the reasons why when
you look back at No King's Day a month ago,
Chicago had one of the biggest turnouts because people are
seeing with their own eyes the impacts of this administration
and the coverage that they're consuming. The news that they're
consuming reflects that reality at the same time, and it's
(15:21):
helping to organize them around the truth in a way
that sometimes gets lost at the national level when either
people are checked out or not paying attention, or our
leaders aren't really speaking clearly to the stakes and the
impacts of what's happening. That was sort of the weird
tension and discord of living through this time where there
(15:43):
was so much escalation in Chicago about what the federal
agents were doing and how they were behaving, and this
shutdown where Democrats didn't want to talk about anything other
than these health subsidies, and then also kick on the
health subsidies.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I think that your governor has done it flun job,
and if he hasn't, you are living in the state,
So tell me if you think he hasn't. But my
sense is that he's done a really good job. But
I do think you're right that the shutdown, they staunchly
refused to talk about ice, probably because of polling, and
maybe that was a mistake. So tell me what you're
(16:18):
seeing and what you think.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I have not seen any polling that indicates that people
are supportive of federal agents terrorizing neighborhoods and taking people
from the streets right now.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Obviously, not nobody likes it, but I think Democrats felt
that Hell's Care was a big winner for them. I
don't agree with that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I think that's how we got here, is what I'm
trying to say. And I think that part of how
we got here is that everyone was trying to be
cute at the margins over you know what a shutdown
could mean. I mean, I wrote specifically about Shatland politics
and this dynamic also at the New Republic last month.
And one of the things that I think drives this
is this absolute denial from the establishment Democrats and how
(17:00):
in Washington that we're not living in extraordinary times where
all of these rules don't apply because for Trump and
his allies and Republicans, no rules apply to them like,
these are people who on January sixth, twenty twenty one,
tried to overthrow the government, both violently by inspiring some
of their followers to attack the Capitol, but also politely
(17:22):
when many of them voted against certifying a free and
fair election. And everything that Democrats have shown with their
actions since then has tried to normalize what Republicans are doing.
I think on this hope that there will be some
sort of bounce back or return to like nineteen eighties Washington,
where bipartisanship can be something that is not just an
(17:44):
outcome but also just this glamorized ideal of what politics are,
and that's not the reality that the majority of people
live in outside of Washington, and so that I think
drives some of these shutdown politics. But at the end
of the day, like this, this is also about not
understanding from democratic leadership's perspectives, how to leverage media moments
(18:07):
that exist into the storytelling they need to do to
grow public understanding of the seriousness of our democratic collapse problem.
Right now, So we've dealt with shutdowns before. You know,
when I was a reporter covering Congress every day, there
were multiple shutdowns starting in twenty eleven when John Bayner
(18:28):
was trying to wrangle his House caucus infused with Tea
Party members when they couldn't even like figure out how
to raise the death ceiling, right, that happened, and then
twenty thirteen you with the Ted Cruz shutdown, And every
time these moments happened, there's sort of this feverish burst
of coverage from you know, the conversation makers, the DC
(18:49):
reporters who get to tell us what's happening and who
cover the palace intrigue of these standoffs. But what Democrats
refuse to engage with is understanding this both sides nature
of mainstream political journalism. They never know how to leverage
their side. They never understood that, like, in order to
(19:10):
make the shutdown happen and work to their advantage, they
needed to use that moment to actually like galvanize people
around the reality of this government. The idea, the basic
idea that we're not going to fund this government because
this government isn't legitimate was not anything that ever got
(19:30):
conveyed when you made it about healthcare subsidies and so
not only is this government not legitimate because they're terrorizing
everyday people and communities in a cities across this country.
But it's also not legitimate because this administration has treated
Congress like it's optional. They've treated authorizations and appropriations from
(19:51):
Congress as optional, as opposed to constitutionally mandate it. And
so part of not funding this government is making the
case for why this government shouldn't exist. And when Democrats
can't make that lead from point A to point B,
I think they're underselling the general public and what they're
capable of understanding, and they're trying to pull test this
(20:15):
into something that they think might be popular, but also
in the process sort of loses its meaning. Our elected
officials should be able to talk about more things at
once than they're currently showing that they're able to do.
And they also need to be able to doc connect
for the general public, because the media, as currently constituted,
(20:38):
feels like it's not their job to doc connect. And
so when Democrats refuse to connect all of these things together,
when they refuse to make this about something that's about
more than one person, more than Donald Trump, and instead
about a party that has invested decades of time, energy,
and unlimited special interest money in breaking the country, that's
(21:00):
when you're starting to see reactions to this cave from
Democrats of being like, are they actually complicit and not
just incompetent Because it's hard to square all of these
circles that we're seeing and that we're living.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
I think it's always better to assume in competence over being,
and Bliss said.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I mean, also why not bull, I.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Think there's a level of incompetence there. I have had
elected officials yell at may for things I've said on television.
I'm not going to say who, but I have had
that experience, and like, but before they start yelling at you,
they say, everything I'm about to tell you is off
the record. And I do think there is an inability
to think in a way that is that is how
(21:39):
we got here, among other things on the democratic side.
And there's also incompetence, But I don't necessarily think it's
corruption at large, or I mean, there certainly are elements
of corruption. I don't want to defend them.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Corruption is a strong word. I think that there is
this level of comfort with the status quo, and this
attachment to the status quo right, and the status who
is really dangerous now, whether it was trying to have
Jennifer Lopez sing at inauguration after January sixth, to show
normal and unity. There's this idea that the way it
(22:15):
feels from their bubbles, if you are comfortable going to
cocktails after work with people who are supposedly adversaries, that
that's a sign that the system is working, that that's
the ideal. Whereas I think they have not grappled fully
with the fact that there's no going back to where
we were, that anything that existed before is gone. You know,
(22:37):
I don't want to ascribe motives to that, right, I
don't necessarily think it's corruption, but there is a sense of, like,
when you continue to go along and try to like
play this role in this like overall feeder that you
feel like you're a player in, you lose the thread,
you lose the plot. You know, when you were talking
(22:58):
about hearing from politicians who at you after you say
something on television. I think about Senator Dick Durbin's response
to criticism over his vote to reopen the government, and
his whole response was, well, people just don't understand how
the Senate work. And I would argue people actually do
understand how it works, and they think that it's bad.
Like I think that some of those people thought they
(23:18):
were doing the right thing. I think when Tim King
goes out there and he writes his essay and his
whole thing is that we need to protect the filibuster,
like that is an expression of the status quo is
the most important, and that there's some normative return to
something that isn't this broken and I don't think without
accountability for how we got here and like an actual
(23:40):
just sort of transparent process where we think about all
of these things that went wrong so that we could
build something new. We're not going to get something new,
and we're definitely not returning to the thing that's old.
And so that's where people's frustrations are coming from. It's
not that they think that these people are necessarily aggressively
or cartoonishly corrupt. We see that every day. Also, I
(24:03):
think it's about understanding that these systems that we're supposed
to undergird our democracy, that they're not actually aligned to
producing democratic outcomes. And so when you don't fight in
moments that present themselves, there's this idea that you're sort
of complicit in promoting the status quo, and that the
status quo is no longer in the public's interest, even
(24:25):
if it might be in the interests of those certain
elected officials.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, and I just think it's not a world that
exists anymore. So that is for sure true that we
found ourselves in a world that doesn't exist anymore, and
we have at least fifty percent of their Democratic Party
believes that if they can sort of will their way
back to that, it's almost like a larger sense of
denial among the party.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yes, and I think that that denial is growing, not
only a chasm between the Democratic Party and their base,
but I think just like the Democratic.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Party and the general public writ large. The anecdote I
like telling people is that at the beginning of ICE
really escalating their presence in Chicago, I showed up to
my son's Little Kickers like Toddler's soccer practice wearing an
abolish ICE shirt and Stix's yoga pants. Moms came up
to me and we're like, where did you get that shirt?
(25:19):
I love your shirt, And then the next week a
mom showed up wearing it. I think it's hard to
properly convey how like abolishing some of these structures has
become a normative position that people who were previously apolitical
are getting really engaged in politics because they're seeing the
outcomes in front of their eyes, and they don't like it.
In Washington, when some of these elected officials, when some
(25:41):
of these old senators are like sitting and they're consuming
I guess we're calling it MS now now, and they're
mad when people gently push at them. They're missing the
whole picture. They're missing the idea that there are people
who are being radicalized right now because the government is
being used to break up families and to take kids
pairs as our kids themselves, and we are so aware
(26:02):
of it. And when they don't act like they're aware
of it, I think that they're sort of rendering themselves
useless and pointless in ways that they don't fully appreciate.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Meredith, I really really, really really appreciate this conversation, and
I feel like you need to be our Chicago correspondent,
because what is happening in Chicago is real. It's a
function of Trump's government, and it's what we're going to
see in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
A lot of times when people look at what's something
happening in politics, and it feels so acute and important.
There's this sense that it comes out of nowhere, But
Republicans have made a long investment in bilifying Chicago, into
humanizing our residents. I grew up outside the city, and
when I used to travel and I said I was
(26:49):
from Chicago in the nineteen nineties, people like, oh, Michael Jordan, like,
that's what you know. And now I would say for
the past decade, anywhere I would go, if I say
I was from Chicago or live in Chicago, people are like, oh,
is that the most violent place in the world. Do
you constantly feel like your life is in danger? Because
that is the image that Fox News has put into
people's minds, and it's born of the same racism and
(27:12):
xenophobia that's now being exercised by the people with the
most power at the top of our federal government. And
so I want people to think about the fact that
all of these things are related. And this was a
very long investment to make Chicago sort of this boogeyman
when that's not the Chicago that anyone who lives here
really experiences, and it's certainly not the Chicago people would
(27:33):
experience if they were so afraid but actually got on
a plane landed here and got to spend time in
our city. This is all of strategy, and it's part
of conservatives who are trying to otherise and oppress others,
and we should really call it for what it is.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you all, thank you.
Molly well Somer is a reporter at The Bulwark and
the author of Trust the Plan. Welcome to Vast Politics School.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Thanks for having me talk.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Us through with the splintering of MAGA as it relates
to Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Beolpert.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I mean, look, I think the Trump movement right now
is that a really kind of fractured moment. You know,
they're coming off of this difficult election cycle. They just
there's all this kind of negative stuff going on. There's
a lot of fighting over Charlie Kirks legacy, but the
biggest thing right now is Epstein. And so you have
someone this is kind of represented by Marjorie Taylor Green,
who is or was sort of the ultimate Trump fan.
(28:30):
I mean she was a qan On believer, which positions
Trump is like a messianic figure who's going to save
the whole world, save the world from child sex trafficking demons,
and now instead they're fighting each other. And so I
think what's going on here is that, you know, you
have this disappointment that Trump won't release the Epstein files.
You also have this kind of pervasive and growing sense
(28:50):
in Maga. I think that Trump isn't going to do
the populist stuff they wanted, that he's he's paling around
with rich people and tech billionaires and sort of throwing
the average Magat person under the bus.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
You know.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Another issue for Margie Taylor Green obviously has been the
expiration of the Obamacare subsidy. So you're seeing this kind
of like Bannonite populist wing that she represents get a
little fed up with Trump.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Is it the financial or is it the political?
Speaker 5 (29:15):
I think it's a couple things. I think on one hand,
I think she has kind of personal grievances against Trump.
You know, he reportedly told her don't run for Senate
in Georgia, don't run for governor, you're too crazy, essentially,
which was probably a pretty reasonable calculus to make. But
I think as a result, it's made her feel kind
of like she's stuck in this role, this kind of
backbencher role, and that she's not getting any respect from
(29:36):
from the White House. And then also I think there's
this she has this id ideology. I think she is
a hardcore MAGA person at heart, and she's seeing this
the movement kind of led astray by Trump, and I
think that's what is making her fed up.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I wonder if you could say more about that, because
that's not necessarily true for Lauren Beaufort or Nancy Mays, right, Yeah,
I mean.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
I think each of these people is each of these
lawmakers is bringing sort of a uni thing to why
they backed the discharged petition. I mean, in Nancy Mace's case,
you know, she has claimed that she had this own
kind of a tortured situation as a sexual abuse victim.
I mean, there are a lot of lawsuits flying flying
around against it. The Daily the Daily Mail wrote an article.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, some boyfriend suing her.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Yeah, her ex fiance and some of his friends. I
mean she he claims that she accused him of sexual assaw.
I mean, this was crazy. She did this whole speech
on the House floor alleging that her ex fiance and
his friends were involved in this like really sinister you know,
sexual abuse ring.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And because she's for.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
It's worth mentioning just that if you say things on
the house floor, you're protected to a certain extent.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And that's what the Epstein survivors keep talking about, right exactly.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
And so because she's saying it from the house floor,
they couldn't sue her over it. He says, on the
other hand, that you know, this was all kind of
a scheme as they were fighting over real estate that
they had jointly owned. So that is what she's bringing
to the table. And also I think she I mean
to be frank, I don't think it's unfair to say.
Nancy Mayce is known for loving attention, so I think
that's probably what's bringing her to it. Lauren Bobert, I
(31:07):
think is a bit more of a cipher. She's a
bit of a of a renegade in a sort of
Marjorie Taylor Green Nancy mace Way. But it is a
little unclear I think why she backed the discharge petition.
I mean, certainly, I would say it. Certainly the White
House I think saw her as sort of the weakest link.
I mean, they were the ones they brought her into
the situation room.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
That's what I was gonna say. Like she resisted what
was pretty scary, right, they brought her into the situation where.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
Yeah, and I mean, I think, you know, that's a
sign that Trump's grip on the party is weakening even
a little bit. You know, this is not a Thomas
Massey or like a John McCain figure in Lauren Bobert,
who's sort of a notorious maverick politically. But I think,
you know the fact that she's saying, well, you know,
maybe I want a little distance from Trump, maybe I
will back this petition, I think is really telling about
(31:52):
Maga's direction right now.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
But this actually does feel like very different, this fracturing.
So you have really like you've chronicled Maga. So tell
us why you think this is different or why you don't.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
I mean, I think this is sort of a unique
moment that Trump is facing. I mean, the Epstein thing
is the biggest issue he's facing that's going on right now.
And that's in part because it is in the world
of right wing media in the Trump administration, they had
acted like this was a really big thing. I mean,
just to list one example, we all remember when Pam Bondi,
you know, gave Jack the soobac and all these other
(32:27):
MAGA characters, the Binders. I mean, they were saying Epstein
files matter a lot, and so then suddenly to make
that U turn. I mean that sticks with the audience
that that Trump is courting. On the other hand, I
think he's facing some other issues too. I mean, they
had a crummy run in the gubernatorial races in Virginia
and New Jersey, and so I think that is making
some Republicans nervous about the midterms. There's a lot of
(32:47):
just general kind of malaise about affordability. And then also
I think that just the vibe in the MAGA the
Trump world is kind of off right now. There's a
lot of feuding. I think there's a lot of clashing
after Charlie Kirks's atter the nation over you know, his
legacy and these conspiracy theories Candace Owens is pushing. We
saw Tucker Carlson kind of welcoming Nick Fuentes into the tent,
(33:08):
and that's creating a lot of drama at places like
the Heritage Foundation. So I think the GOP is just
taking a lot of bad beats lately, and the Epstein
one is the biggest.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Can you talk about this, Tucker Carlson Nick Fuente is
thing because I actually think it's it has huge implications.
Even though it seems like it's a niche, it's actually not.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
Yeah, I mean, and you can tell because a lot
of really prominent people on the writer are taking this
very seriously. So Nick Fuente's white nationalist podcaster marched in Charlottesville,
really prominent voice essentially in the neo Nazi movement, and
he has been growing in popularity. He was kind of
Charlie Kirk's arch enemy, but after the assassination he's been
gaining a lot of profile himself. Tucker Carlson had clashed
(33:49):
with him before, but seems to have said, you know what,
I'm better off being friends with this guy or being
neutral on him than fighting with him, because he has
so much energy behind him among young Republicans. And so
Tucker Carl's and had a very friendly interview with him,
and that angered a lot of more traditional Republicans because
they said, you know, maybe we don't invite the neo
Nazi into the tent to act like this is sort
(34:10):
of an appropriate faction within Trump Is. And then this
kind of echoed out in various ways, most prominently at
the Heritage Foundation, which had sponsored Carlson's show, then put
out this video saying, Hey, we are sticking with Tucker.
We think he's great, and was very critical of people
who were mad about the interview, and they kind of
got embroiled in this morass. A lot of people resigned.
So you can tell, basically it's a fight about both
(34:34):
Israel and anti Semitism more broadly. And is that going
to be okay or even respectable at all within the party?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, and that seems like a very big deal for
any number of reasons. But I think the biggest of
which is that Israel has been such a big part
of Donald Trump's second inauguration, second run for office. You know,
he was I mean net Yahoo is like Trump's bestie.
And also so many people, you know, in the small
(35:03):
world that I live in, so many people you know,
the pro Issio group has become like the biggest Trumpers.
So the idea that somehow the Republican Party could tip
into anti Semitism seems like it could really alienate the base.
Speaker 5 (35:17):
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think a
lot of kind of more respectable or maybe more savvy
Republicans are kind of tearing their hair out over this
because they're saying, you know, we can't have a situation
where Nick Fuente is a guy who has said, among
other things, that Hitler is really cool. We can't have
this guy being seen as a guy we're okay with.
But at the same time, you're seeing Jadie Vance and
even Trump in a few days ago, say well, you know,
(35:38):
let's let's have this debate. We're not going to be
Matt at Tucker for hosting Nick Twente's for by the way,
it was not really a debate, was sort of a
hangout with Nickquente, right, that gave him a bigger platform.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Trump did, in fact, to hang out with Nickquentes himself
in mar A Lago, right, right. Isn't that that dinner
with Kanye Yeah?
Speaker 5 (35:56):
And so that is kind of what kind of the
funny aspect of all of this, this kind of agua
and this this rending of of garments over the Nickquente's thing,
is that Trump, like the king of the MAGA movement,
dined within several years ago. And so for them to
for people at Heritage to say, oh my gosh, I
can't believe we've now invited Nick Went's and you know
(36:16):
Trump kind of already did that. And the other thing
is that, you know a lot of this stuff is
already shot through with racism. I mean, Ben Shapiro has
been a big voice opposing Nick Fuentes. You know, Ben
Shapiro's Jewish, big supporter of Israel. On the other hand,
Ben Shapiro's company ran a whole pardon Derek Chauvin campaign.
And so like the idea that like, you know, these
are the these are like the wow kis or like
(36:38):
the non racist members of the writing media, I think
is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, now let's talk about this piece he wrote, which
I think is really so interesting. You know, we don't
want to be conspiratorial, but it is odd that we
have not seen any answers to this. This is this
story of the pipe bombs. So talk us through these
two pipe bombs found at around January sixth at the
(37:02):
RNC and the DNC, A mystery never solved. While the
Blaze thought they solved it, did they solve it?
Speaker 5 (37:09):
I don't think so. So this is this is Glenn Becksy.
You know, if I was in the FBI, wouldn't I
would not be putting cuffs on this person at the moment.
So this is Glenn Beck's outfit, although he's since left,
and they the pipe bomber case is really important to
the right because they think because the suspect was never identified,
they think, you know, maybe it was an FBI plot
(37:30):
or a CIA plot, and that you know, it sort
of ratcheted up tensions on the morning of January sixth,
because in their point of view, Capitol police kind of
caused the riot by not liking it when Trump supporters
tried to break into Congress, and so they're like, if
we could just find this right.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Bomber, it's a pretty big reach anyway, go on, yes.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Of course, and so The Blaze came out with this
story saying, you know, Glenn Beck, and the writer of
the story said, you know, this is going to be
like the biggest American political scandal in history. They were
so convinced. And they said, this former Capital Police officer,
this woman and they said her name, and she since
has joined the CIA. And we analyzed the gates, so
the way that the pipe bomber and the surveillance video
(38:09):
walked and the way that she walked when she was
playing a college soccer match, and they're nearly a match,
and so it's probably probable that she was the pipe bomber.
Now story has fallen apart almost instantly. I mean, it
was a huge hit on the right day said we
got it, we proved it. Members of Congress tweeted about it,
Anna Paulina Luna, and since then they've said, well maybe not.
(38:29):
And this Capitol Police officer has lawyered up, and I
think the Blaze has a big defamation case in its future.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And it is And it's funny because like we've seen
these mega media outlets try to solve crimes, and they've
really shown how important real reporting is.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
It is crazy. I mean with all of these I
kind of approached it with an open mind and then well,
I don't know, maybe maybe you know, it is odd
that they still haven't caught the pipe bombing suspect, and
then you kind of poke it just a little bit
and it does tend to fall apart.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Actually is a lot harder than you'd think. Yeah, no,
it is.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
I mean, you know, this thing, this pipeone thing, has
been very frustrating because for the right, because you know,
they were convinced the FBI was covering it up. Dan
Bongino said before it became deputy FBI director, he said,
they know who it is, you know, they just don't
want to reveal the name. And then he gets an
office and they had to put out new video just
a few weeks ago saying like, you know, okay, we
can't find this person. Can you help us, you know,
(39:25):
demonstrating that Chris Ray was not covering it up. He
just they couldn't find this person either.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
How much of the stuff that we're seeing now, the
cash Fattel and Pambondi, the answers that they can't deliver
are really because there was no there there.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
I mean I think a lot of it. I mean
I think we're seeing this over and over. I mean,
you know, this idea that you know, to take the
broadest point of view, I mean, you know, they were
convinced that there was this whole deep state plot against Trump. Okay,
well now we're finally there. What are they doing. Well,
they're going to investigate komy on maybe lying to Congress,
and that looks like it's on the verge of getting
thrown out. I mean, these are actually turning to be
very very shaky situations. And the thing I would direct
(40:02):
people to is this situation in Florida where the Grand
Jury is investigating all of these people in the government
who investigated Trump under the idea that it was one
giant conspiracy theory from the Steele dossier to the mar
A Lago raid called they call it the Grand Conspiracy,
And so that is going to be kind of I
think their latest stab at, you know, arresting everyone they
don't like.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, I feel like that's not going to work in
the way that they think it will. Do you think
I want you to talk for just one more minute
about this, because like, now we have these Ebstein files.
You know quite a lot about this, as do I
Unfortunately for us, because we spent the last decade mired
in this. There are all these documents, there are videos,
(40:43):
there's this, there's that. What are you sort of watching?
How do you think they are going to handle it?
It's just hard for me to imagine, like the Trump
lets this stuff get out there.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think the reason that their Trump
has made this about faces in part because they probably
have another idea for how they can the documents from
coming out. On the other hand, you know, the legislation
says that the files have to come out within thirty
days of the legislation passing, I believe, And so now
it's law, and so there's gonna be a court battle
over it. For me, I think my big question is
what is going to go on with these documents that
(41:15):
mentioned Trump's name, because we have FBI whistleblowers who have
said they were told to flag those documents. Whenever Pambondi
and cash Hotel are in front of Congress, they stonewall
about what happened to those documents. So I think it's
gonna be really hard to believe. Even if let's say
today Trump just showed up with boxes and said, here
you go, here are the documents, It's gonna be hard
for people to know that that's all of the documents.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
And there's so much material, and we already know that
there's tens of thousands of videos and pages and this
and that and photographs. Will sommer, will you please come back?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Always, no moment, Jesse Cannon.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
So one of the things when you know, ever Republicans
are in control of the House is they never show
up for work. We always see they do less days
and then we have this whole government shutdown where nothing
gets done. And now we have farmers who are basically
crying out saying like, these tariffs have destroyed our lives,
They're destroying the American economy, They're destroying our crops. Please
(42:13):
please do something. And I'll be shocked to let you know.
Nothing is getting fucking done by these assholes.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, you know you shouldn't vote for these people because
they're terrible. I just want to tell you they're terrible
and they don't give a fuck about people. So here's
the deal. Farmers are getting hit on a number of
different sides. I know you're going to be shocked to
hear this by down Trump's policies. Did they have trouble
finding people to work for them? That's part of it.
(42:39):
They're being affected by the tariffs in all different kinds
of ways, right, Because you have these tariffs that are
making other countries not want to buy food from us,
so that's affecting them. Then they have these farm workers
who are being deported or who are being arrested, or
who are scared to come to work. At every point here,
(43:00):
these farmers are kind of getting fucked And a lot
of these people are the people who voted for Trump, right,
they're like Trump space. You know, these are red state people.
You know, they're sort of lower frequency voters, and they
are now feeling the wrath of Trump's incredibly stupid and
(43:21):
terrible policies. Shockingly, by the way, this keeps fucking happening.
And I know we will forever be covering this incredibly
stupid administration and the fallout from it, but it is,
it is really something to just keep covering this, always
be covering the deaths of American democracy.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Every day. Another leopard eats another face.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Every day, and that's right. That's it for this episode
of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and
Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense
of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please
send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
(44:07):
Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds and national NPR PBS News Maris Paul
shows that Democrats have a fourteen point lead in the
generic ballot if the midterms were held today. We have
(00:23):
such a great show for you today. The New Republic's
Meredith Shiner joins us to talk about how everyday citizens
are fighting back against Ice. Then we'll talk to the
Bulwarks own Will Sommer about how MAGA infighting is weakening
the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
But first the news.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Smile. You know what lives rent free in my head
every day is when Trump was on the stump and
COVID was surging and he screamed, we have to slow
it down about the testing. Today we got news that
the BLS is kidsley October jobs reports due to the
government shutdown. Head, I just feel the same energy somehow.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yes, Trump has long been a fan of not counting numbers.
I think that's fair. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
We like to say is Nemesis is the count of
Sesame Street.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
That's right. Well, no, he doesn't like that. Muslim math. This,
by the way, Muslim math is a throwback to Veep
when Jonah says we don't like Muslim math. Okay, I'm
not saying anything except that Jonah discovers that math comes
from the Islamic countries. I means, right, and so he
(01:34):
calls it Islamic math. And this is a follow up
to that Donald Trump doesn't like math. Look, I know
that everyone has forgotten about this, but Donald Trump did
fire the head of the Bureau of Labor and Statistics
because he did not like the numbers. So this makes
quite a lot of sense that he would not allow
(01:55):
this to be released because of the shutdown. But I
want to point out that even if you don't don't
know the math, you know, even if you don't read
the New York Times, even if you don't read the news,
it's still happening.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
You can't stop it. But you know what he can control.
So I'm going to take you back to recent times
when Trump would threaten to fire Jerome Powell, and what
would happen? The stock market would crush? What did he
do again? Today?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Threatened to fire Jerome pal did the stock market crash?
I haven't seen this stock market.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Well, it's a little early to tell. Where a little
earlier the day. But let me give you the exact
quote of what you said. I'd love to fire his ass.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, Jerome pal You know who hired his ass, Donald Trump.
One more thought on Jerome Palll being the chairman of
the FED is like sort of the highest government job
for a fancy economist. Here it is, you're this fancy economist.
You have this job, You're the FED chair and you
have this like gangster president being like a what to
(02:53):
fire is ass?
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Right?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Like you have to wonder Jerome pal must be just
like what was I think thinking when I took this
fucking job? Because he can you know, if he quits,
it's extremely bad for the markets. He's got to sort
of keep riding this thing out. And he's almost done,
his appointments, almost done. But you have to think, like
this guy is so I mean, he is not. There's
(03:16):
no winning here, right, Like this is an actual confident
guy who could just have a normal job.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Truly, he did not read Rick Wilson's tomb. Everything Trump
touches dies and really consider his place in this. But
I want to get into an interesting trend we have
in congress. Censure. It's all the rage these days in
Congress and stripping people at covies. So particularly, we have
Representative Nancy Mace, who I think a lot of people
(03:42):
who've worked for her have called for a wellness check on.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Before we started recording, we were talking about this and
I said, oh, well, good for Nancy Mays for trying
to censure fellow Republican Corey Mills. She's ousting him from committees.
That's good, and you explained it in a way that
made a lot of sense. So I'm going to have
you be the explainer here and explain to us what's
really happening here.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
So in the past for something like this, let's remember
Corey Mills has not been criminally charged, but he's had
two accusations and now a restraining order by past people
he was sexually involved with. And so what is happening
here is usually things like this in a Congress of
many years ago would be you'd get your ass thrown
(04:24):
out and potentially your seat would go up. But now
we've had to move the goalpost because the majority is
so slim on the GOP side, and so now it's
just a little censorship and get off of the committees.
Then Nancy mas can continue pretending her brand is protecting
women and things like that, while she bullis trans people
all day every day.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
Right, So this is actually the kind of three dimensional
chests that we actually don't see Republicans do so much
because usually they're not that smart. You know, there's something
to be said politically for this because it's smart, which
is she is doing this so she looks like a
feminist fighter when in fact she's really just enabling more
(05:03):
of the usual from him.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yeah, we should say there was a vote about Schuey
Garcia's pretty shady move to get their chief of staff
to succeed them in Congress, and then as well one
that failed about the Virgin Islands Rep. Stacy Plaskett getting
texts from Jeffrey EPs while questioning people in Congress, which,
yike's bad stuff there, Stacy that we could do better
(05:27):
with the Democrats than this stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Not good.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Yeah, you know, let's also remember Nancy Mace also did
a really vile, vile centerre of Villain Omar in the
past two Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
No, no, but we haven't seen Republicans do things that
seem like they're one thing but are actually something else.
So it is a little bit smart for them. I'm
just gonna come out and say it. They're not usually
smart about political stuff like this, So.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, I agree with you, Somai. We have House Majority
Leader Mike Johnson. The House obviously passed yesterday as we
discussed the release of the Epstein five, and the Senate
says they're going to move fast on it.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
They signed off on it last night.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Yes, and did you see though Mike Johnson's reaction.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Please play it? I did. In fact, it's my ring tone.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Now, Oh wow, that's that's such a throwback for you.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Yeah, especially because I have never had the ringer on.
But please play it. Because he is shook.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
The bill without adding amendments or changing it. I am.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I'm deeply disappointed in this outcome.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
I think I'm told I've been at the state dinner.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
I was just told to rushed it to the floor
and put it out there preemptively.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It needed amendments. I just spoke to President about that.
We'll see what happened.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
So is he do you think he may be?
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know what you say, I'm not saying that. I'm
kind of sad that the crop on the video is
right above where his pets might be Pete.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
You're so naughty. That is an incredible video. And what's
so interesting about it is this impetition past the House
four hundred and fifty whatever to one.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
The only vote against it was Rep. Clay Higgins. And
my joke has been is that's because he represents the
district of the Carcosa in True Detective season one, and
we know what happened there.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
This is like a too deep a cut, baby.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
It's one of the most popular TV shows of the decade.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Come on, I know, but it's like you have to
you have to explain it. You're losing anyway. The point
here is that I think you are absolutely right, and
I think that to watch this, they are so unprepared
for these Epstein files, despite the fact that like they
knew this was coming, and they still are so unprepared.
(07:44):
It's kind of amazing. I have so I just am
so impressed that at so many points these guys have
they've had a chance to deal with it, and they
just have not been able to figure out how to.
Meredith Shiner is a contributing editor at The New Republic.
(08:04):
Welcome to Fast Politics, Meredith.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
By Mollie. Thank you for having me back.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I'm so excited to have you. So you are in Chicago,
which is right now sort of the center of the
ice Buckery, talk us through what's happening. It has like
kind of not been in the national spotlight as much
as it was before, but it doesn't mean it's not
still happening. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I mean, just like all of the other indicators of
our democratic collapse, I think this is something that's persistent
and people are living with. And obviously this week Greg
Borbino and the Custom and Border Patrol gang ended up
descending onto Charlotte and we're seeing them use a similar
playbook there. And so one of the things that I've
been trying to do in my writing at The New
(08:47):
Republic is really give people a cent of what it's
like to live here in Chicago and the things that
are deeply distressing and terrorizing about being a person who
lives and engages in works and sends kids to school
in the neighborhood, but also some of the things that
can be a playbook for optimism and resistance. You know,
I think one of the main themes that I see
(09:10):
every day here and when I hear hear from people
in my circles you know, I think sometimes resistance can
feel really overwhelming, like there's this huge barrier to entry
that you have to be at protests, that you have
to be face to face with some of these ICE agents,
like we're seeing in some of the footage that did
get national attention at the Broadview Ice facility just outside
(09:30):
of Chicago, because those standoffs look so dramatic to both
the news editor's eye and I think to the normal eye.
And what life here has taught us and what I've
really tried to show in our writing is that living
in this kind of democratic distress, it doesn't have to
be or feel so dramatic to actually stand up for
(09:51):
your neighbors. And so some of the things that we're
seeing simply and some of the things that I wrote
about even in organizing around Halloween, is that people show
up at drop off and pick up time at elementary
schools just to be an extra set of eyes and ears.
You make sure that you carry a whistle in your
pocket because you want to make sure that anyone around
you might know that ICE is present.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
You know.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
One of the sad truths and realities about this holistic
attack on our communities is that they're happening in every
community across the city. You know, someone was taken a
delivery app driver was taken from our independent grocery store
five blocks from our house, and that organized people around
the elementary school, which is two blocks from our house.
And so I think what people need to know is that,
(10:35):
you know, it feels like this randomized terror. It almost
feels like the way to describe it is living in
America that's marked by school shootings that you always sort
of have this fear that it could happen to you,
and where it happened could be anywhere, and so part
of that terror is the design. But the thing that
is hopeful is that everyday people are showing up and
(10:55):
they're showing their neighbors that they care, and they're intervening
in ways that are really excited and also changing the
curve on how people or if people are taken.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, it's really interesting and important. I wonder if you
could talk a little bit about what people do to
draw attention to ice.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
Yeah, I absolutely can do that. And I feel like
the thing is is that it was so grassroots, So
whistles are so important. I got a text message from
a friend from college who currently lives in Charlotte, and
that came in over the weekends, and one of the
things she says is like, well, what should I know
about Ice coming here? And I said, everyone needs a whistle, right,
So there were all of these whistle packing parties at
(11:37):
bars and parent groups and all of these different places
across the city where people pack the whistle with these
mini like leaflets that talked about what to do if
you see a federal agent trying to like execute a kidnapping,
and the whistle like devices that you should do so
(11:58):
like three short whistles if ICE is in the area,
and three protracted whistles if someone is actively being taken.
Things like that, Like it's easy to keep a whistle
with you, it's easy to remember some of those systems,
and it's about like becoming a bystander in your own life.
There were a lot of makeshift sort of signal group
(12:18):
chats and places where people in the neighborhood would share
sort of intelligence about these cars, what plates they were,
where they might be heading, so that way you can
keep an eye out. And I would say, there's something
in part that feels empowering about that that you have
this awareness that you feel like there's something that you
can do, but it also can feel really overwhelming because
(12:40):
all of these contexts within which you're doing your everyday life,
they're being invaded by people who are acting without regard
to the law, who are acting out of hate, who
are taking people who are just trying to live their lives.
To me, and one of the things that I wrote
about in one of my recent essays at the New
Public was the story of a sixteen year old girl
(13:03):
who has stage four cancer, who's undergoing chemotherapy, who is weak,
and who's struggling to survive, and her dad was taken
from a home depot parking lot, and the huge fight
and the amount of local news coverage and the amount
of organizing that helped raise awareness for this case so
her dad could be released so he could be with
her as he went through chemotherapy. The other week, a
(13:26):
daycare teacher from an infant room was taken at a
drop off time in front of other staff, in front
of toddlers, in front of infants and parents, and that
very night a thousand people congregated in this neighborhood to
try to protest so that she would be released, and
since then she has, and so I think you're seeing
this intersection of people caring and being engaged and also
(13:51):
the power of how being informed can really inspire us
to action. One of the things I've been talking about
recently also is how good local news coverage has been.
We have a lot of independent journalists here, but we
also have reporters from our major publications, whether it's the
Chicago Sun Times or the Tribune or the TV networks,
who have been covering this both as an international story
(14:14):
about what happens when the US government gets corrupted, but
also a local neighborhood story what happens when people are
taken from their neighborhoods, from their families, from their communities.
And I think that they've done a really nice job
in balancing how to humanize our neighbors while also creating
a sense of urgency and seriousness around what's happening. And
(14:36):
to me, as someone who has done a fair share
of criticism of national media, that's also been really instructive too,
because it turns out that when we give people accurate information,
when we give people information and news that both explains
the stakes of what's happening, but also the humans who
are involved people are aware and recognizing what's happening. They
(15:00):
don't like it, and to me like that accuracy and
impact in journalism is one of the reasons why when
you look back at No King's Day a month ago,
Chicago had one of the biggest turnouts because people are
seeing with their own eyes the impacts of this administration
and the coverage that they're consuming. The news that they're
consuming reflects that reality at the same time, and it's
(15:21):
helping to organize them around the truth in a way
that sometimes gets lost at the national level when either
people are checked out or not paying attention, or our
leaders aren't really speaking clearly to the stakes and the
impacts of what's happening. That was sort of the weird
tension and discord of living through this time where there
(15:43):
was so much escalation in Chicago about what the federal
agents were doing and how they were behaving, and this
shutdown where Democrats didn't want to talk about anything other
than these health subsidies, and then also kick on the
health subsidies.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I think that your governor has done it flun job,
and if he hasn't, you are living in the state,
So tell me if you think he hasn't. But my
sense is that he's done a really good job. But
I do think you're right that the shutdown, they staunchly
refused to talk about ice, probably because of polling, and
maybe that was a mistake. So tell me what you're
(16:18):
seeing and what you think.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
I have not seen any polling that indicates that people
are supportive of federal agents terrorizing neighborhoods and taking people
from the streets right now.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Obviously, not nobody likes it, but I think Democrats felt
that Hell's Care was a big winner for them. I
don't agree with that.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
I think that's how we got here, is what I'm
trying to say. And I think that part of how
we got here is that everyone was trying to be
cute at the margins over you know what a shutdown
could mean. I mean, I wrote specifically about Shatland politics
and this dynamic also at the New Republic last month.
And one of the things that I think drives this
is this absolute denial from the establishment Democrats and how
(17:00):
in Washington that we're not living in extraordinary times where
all of these rules don't apply because for Trump and
his allies and Republicans, no rules apply to them like,
these are people who on January sixth, twenty twenty one,
tried to overthrow the government, both violently by inspiring some
of their followers to attack the Capitol, but also politely
(17:22):
when many of them voted against certifying a free and
fair election. And everything that Democrats have shown with their
actions since then has tried to normalize what Republicans are doing.
I think on this hope that there will be some
sort of bounce back or return to like nineteen eighties Washington,
where bipartisanship can be something that is not just an
(17:44):
outcome but also just this glamorized ideal of what politics are,
and that's not the reality that the majority of people
live in outside of Washington, and so that I think
drives some of these shutdown politics. But at the end
of the day, like this, this is also about not
understanding from democratic leadership's perspectives, how to leverage media moments
(18:07):
that exist into the storytelling they need to do to
grow public understanding of the seriousness of our democratic collapse problem.
Right now, So we've dealt with shutdowns before. You know,
when I was a reporter covering Congress every day, there
were multiple shutdowns starting in twenty eleven when John Bayner
(18:28):
was trying to wrangle his House caucus infused with Tea
Party members when they couldn't even like figure out how
to raise the death ceiling, right, that happened, and then
twenty thirteen you with the Ted Cruz shutdown, And every
time these moments happened, there's sort of this feverish burst
of coverage from you know, the conversation makers, the DC
(18:49):
reporters who get to tell us what's happening and who
cover the palace intrigue of these standoffs. But what Democrats
refuse to engage with is understanding this both sides nature
of mainstream political journalism. They never know how to leverage
their side. They never understood that, like, in order to
(19:10):
make the shutdown happen and work to their advantage, they
needed to use that moment to actually like galvanize people
around the reality of this government. The idea, the basic
idea that we're not going to fund this government because
this government isn't legitimate was not anything that ever got
(19:30):
conveyed when you made it about healthcare subsidies and so
not only is this government not legitimate because they're terrorizing
everyday people and communities in a cities across this country.
But it's also not legitimate because this administration has treated
Congress like it's optional. They've treated authorizations and appropriations from
(19:51):
Congress as optional, as opposed to constitutionally mandate it. And
so part of not funding this government is making the
case for why this government shouldn't exist. And when Democrats
can't make that lead from point A to point B,
I think they're underselling the general public and what they're
capable of understanding, and they're trying to pull test this
(20:15):
into something that they think might be popular, but also
in the process sort of loses its meaning. Our elected
officials should be able to talk about more things at
once than they're currently showing that they're able to do.
And they also need to be able to doc connect
for the general public, because the media, as currently constituted,
(20:38):
feels like it's not their job to doc connect. And
so when Democrats refuse to connect all of these things together,
when they refuse to make this about something that's about
more than one person, more than Donald Trump, and instead
about a party that has invested decades of time, energy,
and unlimited special interest money in breaking the country, that's
(21:00):
when you're starting to see reactions to this cave from
Democrats of being like, are they actually complicit and not
just incompetent Because it's hard to square all of these
circles that we're seeing and that we're living.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
I think it's always better to assume in competence over being,
and Bliss said.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I mean, also why not bull, I.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Think there's a level of incompetence there. I have had
elected officials yell at may for things I've said on television.
I'm not going to say who, but I have had
that experience, and like, but before they start yelling at you,
they say, everything I'm about to tell you is off
the record. And I do think there is an inability
to think in a way that is that is how
(21:39):
we got here, among other things on the democratic side.
And there's also incompetence, But I don't necessarily think it's
corruption at large, or I mean, there certainly are elements
of corruption. I don't want to defend them.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Corruption is a strong word. I think that there is
this level of comfort with the status quo, and this
attachment to the status quo right, and the status who
is really dangerous now, whether it was trying to have
Jennifer Lopez sing at inauguration after January sixth, to show
normal and unity. There's this idea that the way it
(22:15):
feels from their bubbles, if you are comfortable going to
cocktails after work with people who are supposedly adversaries, that
that's a sign that the system is working, that that's
the ideal. Whereas I think they have not grappled fully
with the fact that there's no going back to where
we were, that anything that existed before is gone. You know,
(22:37):
I don't want to ascribe motives to that, right, I
don't necessarily think it's corruption, but there is a sense of, like,
when you continue to go along and try to like
play this role in this like overall feeder that you
feel like you're a player in, you lose the thread,
you lose the plot. You know, when you were talking
(22:58):
about hearing from politicians who at you after you say
something on television. I think about Senator Dick Durbin's response
to criticism over his vote to reopen the government, and
his whole response was, well, people just don't understand how
the Senate work. And I would argue people actually do
understand how it works, and they think that it's bad.
Like I think that some of those people thought they
(23:18):
were doing the right thing. I think when Tim King
goes out there and he writes his essay and his
whole thing is that we need to protect the filibuster,
like that is an expression of the status quo is
the most important, and that there's some normative return to
something that isn't this broken and I don't think without
accountability for how we got here and like an actual
(23:40):
just sort of transparent process where we think about all
of these things that went wrong so that we could
build something new. We're not going to get something new,
and we're definitely not returning to the thing that's old.
And so that's where people's frustrations are coming from. It's
not that they think that these people are necessarily aggressively
or cartoonishly corrupt. We see that every day. Also, I
(24:03):
think it's about understanding that these systems that we're supposed
to undergird our democracy, that they're not actually aligned to
producing democratic outcomes. And so when you don't fight in
moments that present themselves, there's this idea that you're sort
of complicit in promoting the status quo, and that the
status quo is no longer in the public's interest, even
(24:25):
if it might be in the interests of those certain
elected officials.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, and I just think it's not a world that
exists anymore. So that is for sure true that we
found ourselves in a world that doesn't exist anymore, and
we have at least fifty percent of their Democratic Party
believes that if they can sort of will their way
back to that, it's almost like a larger sense of
denial among the party.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
Yes, and I think that that denial is growing, not
only a chasm between the Democratic Party and their base,
but I think just like the Democratic.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Party and the general public writ large. The anecdote I
like telling people is that at the beginning of ICE
really escalating their presence in Chicago, I showed up to
my son's Little Kickers like Toddler's soccer practice wearing an
abolish ICE shirt and Stix's yoga pants. Moms came up
to me and we're like, where did you get that shirt?
(25:19):
I love your shirt, And then the next week a
mom showed up wearing it. I think it's hard to
properly convey how like abolishing some of these structures has
become a normative position that people who were previously apolitical
are getting really engaged in politics because they're seeing the
outcomes in front of their eyes, and they don't like it.
In Washington, when some of these elected officials, when some
(25:41):
of these old senators are like sitting and they're consuming
I guess we're calling it MS now now, and they're
mad when people gently push at them. They're missing the
whole picture. They're missing the idea that there are people
who are being radicalized right now because the government is
being used to break up families and to take kids
pairs as our kids themselves, and we are so aware
(26:02):
of it. And when they don't act like they're aware
of it, I think that they're sort of rendering themselves
useless and pointless in ways that they don't fully appreciate.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Meredith, I really really, really really appreciate this conversation, and
I feel like you need to be our Chicago correspondent,
because what is happening in Chicago is real. It's a
function of Trump's government, and it's what we're going to
see in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
A lot of times when people look at what's something
happening in politics, and it feels so acute and important.
There's this sense that it comes out of nowhere, But
Republicans have made a long investment in bilifying Chicago, into
humanizing our residents. I grew up outside the city, and
when I used to travel and I said I was
(26:49):
from Chicago in the nineteen nineties, people like, oh, Michael Jordan, like,
that's what you know. And now I would say for
the past decade, anywhere I would go, if I say
I was from Chicago or live in Chicago, people are like, oh,
is that the most violent place in the world. Do
you constantly feel like your life is in danger? Because
that is the image that Fox News has put into
people's minds, and it's born of the same racism and
(27:12):
xenophobia that's now being exercised by the people with the
most power at the top of our federal government. And
so I want people to think about the fact that
all of these things are related. And this was a
very long investment to make Chicago sort of this boogeyman
when that's not the Chicago that anyone who lives here
really experiences, and it's certainly not the Chicago people would
(27:33):
experience if they were so afraid but actually got on
a plane landed here and got to spend time in
our city. This is all of strategy, and it's part
of conservatives who are trying to otherise and oppress others,
and we should really call it for what it is.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you all, thank you.
Molly well Somer is a reporter at The Bulwark and
the author of Trust the Plan. Welcome to Vast Politics School.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Thanks for having me talk.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Us through with the splintering of MAGA as it relates
to Marjorie Taylor Green and Lauren Beolpert.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I mean, look, I think the Trump movement right now
is that a really kind of fractured moment. You know,
they're coming off of this difficult election cycle. They just
there's all this kind of negative stuff going on. There's
a lot of fighting over Charlie Kirks legacy, but the
biggest thing right now is Epstein. And so you have
someone this is kind of represented by Marjorie Taylor Green,
who is or was sort of the ultimate Trump fan.
(28:30):
I mean she was a qan On believer, which positions
Trump is like a messianic figure who's going to save
the whole world, save the world from child sex trafficking demons,
and now instead they're fighting each other. And so I
think what's going on here is that, you know, you
have this disappointment that Trump won't release the Epstein files.
You also have this kind of pervasive and growing sense
(28:50):
in Maga. I think that Trump isn't going to do
the populist stuff they wanted, that he's he's paling around
with rich people and tech billionaires and sort of throwing
the average Magat person under the bus.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
You know.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
Another issue for Margie Taylor Green obviously has been the
expiration of the Obamacare subsidy. So you're seeing this kind
of like Bannonite populist wing that she represents get a
little fed up with Trump.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Is it the financial or is it the political?
Speaker 5 (29:15):
I think it's a couple things. I think on one hand,
I think she has kind of personal grievances against Trump.
You know, he reportedly told her don't run for Senate
in Georgia, don't run for governor, you're too crazy, essentially,
which was probably a pretty reasonable calculus to make. But
I think as a result, it's made her feel kind
of like she's stuck in this role, this kind of
backbencher role, and that she's not getting any respect from
(29:36):
from the White House. And then also I think there's
this she has this id ideology. I think she is
a hardcore MAGA person at heart, and she's seeing this
the movement kind of led astray by Trump, and I
think that's what is making her fed up.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I wonder if you could say more about that, because
that's not necessarily true for Lauren Beaufort or Nancy Mays, right, Yeah,
I mean.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
I think each of these people is each of these
lawmakers is bringing sort of a uni thing to why
they backed the discharged petition. I mean, in Nancy Mace's case,
you know, she has claimed that she had this own
kind of a tortured situation as a sexual abuse victim.
I mean, there are a lot of lawsuits flying flying
around against it. The Daily the Daily Mail wrote an article.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
You know, some boyfriend suing her.
Speaker 5 (30:20):
Yeah, her ex fiance and some of his friends. I
mean she he claims that she accused him of sexual assaw.
I mean, this was crazy. She did this whole speech
on the House floor alleging that her ex fiance and
his friends were involved in this like really sinister you know,
sexual abuse ring.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
And because she's for.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
It's worth mentioning just that if you say things on
the house floor, you're protected to a certain extent.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
And that's what the Epstein survivors keep talking about, right exactly.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
And so because she's saying it from the house floor,
they couldn't sue her over it. He says, on the
other hand, that you know, this was all kind of
a scheme as they were fighting over real estate that
they had jointly owned. So that is what she's bringing
to the table. And also I think she I mean
to be frank, I don't think it's unfair to say.
Nancy Mayce is known for loving attention, so I think
that's probably what's bringing her to it. Lauren Bobert, I
(31:07):
think is a bit more of a cipher. She's a
bit of a of a renegade in a sort of
Marjorie Taylor Green Nancy mace Way. But it is a
little unclear I think why she backed the discharge petition.
I mean, certainly, I would say it. Certainly the White
House I think saw her as sort of the weakest link.
I mean, they were the ones they brought her into
the situation room.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
That's what I was gonna say. Like she resisted what
was pretty scary, right, they brought her into the situation where.
Speaker 5 (31:30):
Yeah, and I mean, I think, you know, that's a
sign that Trump's grip on the party is weakening even
a little bit. You know, this is not a Thomas
Massey or like a John McCain figure in Lauren Bobert,
who's sort of a notorious maverick politically. But I think,
you know the fact that she's saying, well, you know,
maybe I want a little distance from Trump, maybe I
will back this petition, I think is really telling about
(31:52):
Maga's direction right now.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
But this actually does feel like very different, this fracturing.
So you have really like you've chronicled Maga. So tell
us why you think this is different or why you don't.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
I mean, I think this is sort of a unique
moment that Trump is facing. I mean, the Epstein thing
is the biggest issue he's facing that's going on right now.
And that's in part because it is in the world
of right wing media in the Trump administration, they had
acted like this was a really big thing. I mean,
just to list one example, we all remember when Pam Bondi,
you know, gave Jack the soobac and all these other
(32:27):
MAGA characters, the Binders. I mean, they were saying Epstein
files matter a lot, and so then suddenly to make
that U turn. I mean that sticks with the audience
that that Trump is courting. On the other hand, I
think he's facing some other issues too. I mean, they
had a crummy run in the gubernatorial races in Virginia
and New Jersey, and so I think that is making
some Republicans nervous about the midterms. There's a lot of
(32:47):
just general kind of malaise about affordability. And then also
I think that just the vibe in the MAGA the
Trump world is kind of off right now. There's a
lot of feuding. I think there's a lot of clashing
after Charlie Kirks's atter the nation over you know, his
legacy and these conspiracy theories Candace Owens is pushing. We
saw Tucker Carlson kind of welcoming Nick Fuentes into the tent,
(33:08):
and that's creating a lot of drama at places like
the Heritage Foundation. So I think the GOP is just
taking a lot of bad beats lately, and the Epstein
one is the biggest.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Can you talk about this, Tucker Carlson Nick Fuente is
thing because I actually think it's it has huge implications.
Even though it seems like it's a niche, it's actually not.
Speaker 5 (33:28):
Yeah, I mean, and you can tell because a lot
of really prominent people on the writer are taking this
very seriously. So Nick Fuente's white nationalist podcaster marched in Charlottesville,
really prominent voice essentially in the neo Nazi movement, and
he has been growing in popularity. He was kind of
Charlie Kirk's arch enemy, but after the assassination he's been
gaining a lot of profile himself. Tucker Carlson had clashed
(33:49):
with him before, but seems to have said, you know what,
I'm better off being friends with this guy or being
neutral on him than fighting with him, because he has
so much energy behind him among young Republicans. And so
Tucker Carl's and had a very friendly interview with him,
and that angered a lot of more traditional Republicans because
they said, you know, maybe we don't invite the neo
Nazi into the tent to act like this is sort
(34:10):
of an appropriate faction within Trump Is. And then this
kind of echoed out in various ways, most prominently at
the Heritage Foundation, which had sponsored Carlson's show, then put
out this video saying, Hey, we are sticking with Tucker.
We think he's great, and was very critical of people
who were mad about the interview, and they kind of
got embroiled in this morass. A lot of people resigned.
So you can tell, basically it's a fight about both
(34:34):
Israel and anti Semitism more broadly. And is that going
to be okay or even respectable at all within the party?
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, and that seems like a very big deal for
any number of reasons. But I think the biggest of
which is that Israel has been such a big part
of Donald Trump's second inauguration, second run for office. You know,
he was I mean net Yahoo is like Trump's bestie.
And also so many people, you know, in the small
(35:03):
world that I live in, so many people you know,
the pro Issio group has become like the biggest Trumpers.
So the idea that somehow the Republican Party could tip
into anti Semitism seems like it could really alienate the base.
Speaker 5 (35:17):
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, I think a
lot of kind of more respectable or maybe more savvy
Republicans are kind of tearing their hair out over this
because they're saying, you know, we can't have a situation
where Nick Fuente is a guy who has said, among
other things, that Hitler is really cool. We can't have
this guy being seen as a guy we're okay with.
But at the same time, you're seeing Jadie Vance and
even Trump in a few days ago, say well, you know,
(35:38):
let's let's have this debate. We're not going to be
Matt at Tucker for hosting Nick Twente's for by the way,
it was not really a debate, was sort of a
hangout with Nickquente, right, that gave him a bigger platform.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
Trump did, in fact, to hang out with Nickquentes himself
in mar A Lago, right, right. Isn't that that dinner
with Kanye Yeah?
Speaker 5 (35:56):
And so that is kind of what kind of the
funny aspect of all of this, this kind of agua
and this this rending of of garments over the Nickquente's thing,
is that Trump, like the king of the MAGA movement,
dined within several years ago. And so for them to
for people at Heritage to say, oh my gosh, I
can't believe we've now invited Nick Went's and you know
(36:16):
Trump kind of already did that. And the other thing
is that, you know a lot of this stuff is
already shot through with racism. I mean, Ben Shapiro has
been a big voice opposing Nick Fuentes. You know, Ben
Shapiro's Jewish, big supporter of Israel. On the other hand,
Ben Shapiro's company ran a whole pardon Derek Chauvin campaign.
And so like the idea that like, you know, these
are the these are like the wow kis or like
(36:38):
the non racist members of the writing media, I think
is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Yeah, now let's talk about this piece he wrote, which
I think is really so interesting. You know, we don't
want to be conspiratorial, but it is odd that we
have not seen any answers to this. This is this
story of the pipe bombs. So talk us through these
two pipe bombs found at around January sixth at the
(37:02):
RNC and the DNC, A mystery never solved. While the
Blaze thought they solved it, did they solve it?
Speaker 5 (37:09):
I don't think so. So this is this is Glenn Becksy.
You know, if I was in the FBI, wouldn't I
would not be putting cuffs on this person at the moment.
So this is Glenn Beck's outfit, although he's since left,
and they the pipe bomber case is really important to
the right because they think because the suspect was never identified,
they think, you know, maybe it was an FBI plot
(37:30):
or a CIA plot, and that you know, it sort
of ratcheted up tensions on the morning of January sixth,
because in their point of view, Capitol police kind of
caused the riot by not liking it when Trump supporters
tried to break into Congress, and so they're like, if
we could just find this right.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Bomber, it's a pretty big reach anyway, go on, yes.
Speaker 5 (37:46):
Of course, and so The Blaze came out with this
story saying, you know, Glenn Beck, and the writer of
the story said, you know, this is going to be
like the biggest American political scandal in history. They were
so convinced. And they said, this former Capital Police officer,
this woman and they said her name, and she since
has joined the CIA. And we analyzed the gates, so
the way that the pipe bomber and the surveillance video
(38:09):
walked and the way that she walked when she was
playing a college soccer match, and they're nearly a match,
and so it's probably probable that she was the pipe bomber.
Now story has fallen apart almost instantly. I mean, it
was a huge hit on the right day said we
got it, we proved it. Members of Congress tweeted about it,
Anna Paulina Luna, and since then they've said, well maybe not.
(38:29):
And this Capitol Police officer has lawyered up, and I
think the Blaze has a big defamation case in its future.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
And it is And it's funny because like we've seen
these mega media outlets try to solve crimes, and they've
really shown how important real reporting is.
Speaker 5 (38:48):
It is crazy. I mean with all of these I
kind of approached it with an open mind and then well,
I don't know, maybe maybe you know, it is odd
that they still haven't caught the pipe bombing suspect, and
then you kind of poke it just a little bit
and it does tend to fall apart.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
Actually is a lot harder than you'd think. Yeah, no,
it is.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
I mean, you know, this thing, this pipeone thing, has
been very frustrating because for the right, because you know,
they were convinced the FBI was covering it up. Dan
Bongino said before it became deputy FBI director, he said,
they know who it is, you know, they just don't
want to reveal the name. And then he gets an
office and they had to put out new video just
a few weeks ago saying like, you know, okay, we
can't find this person. Can you help us, you know,
(39:25):
demonstrating that Chris Ray was not covering it up. He
just they couldn't find this person either.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
How much of the stuff that we're seeing now, the
cash Fattel and Pambondi, the answers that they can't deliver
are really because there was no there there.
Speaker 5 (39:40):
I mean I think a lot of it. I mean
I think we're seeing this over and over. I mean,
you know, this idea that you know, to take the
broadest point of view, I mean, you know, they were
convinced that there was this whole deep state plot against Trump. Okay,
well now we're finally there. What are they doing. Well,
they're going to investigate komy on maybe lying to Congress,
and that looks like it's on the verge of getting
thrown out. I mean, these are actually turning to be
very very shaky situations. And the thing I would direct
(40:02):
people to is this situation in Florida where the Grand
Jury is investigating all of these people in the government
who investigated Trump under the idea that it was one
giant conspiracy theory from the Steele dossier to the mar
A Lago raid called they call it the Grand Conspiracy,
And so that is going to be kind of I
think their latest stab at, you know, arresting everyone they
don't like.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, I feel like that's not going to work in
the way that they think it will. Do you think
I want you to talk for just one more minute
about this, because like, now we have these Ebstein files.
You know quite a lot about this, as do I
Unfortunately for us, because we spent the last decade mired
in this. There are all these documents, there are videos,
(40:43):
there's this, there's that. What are you sort of watching?
How do you think they are going to handle it?
It's just hard for me to imagine, like the Trump
lets this stuff get out there.
Speaker 5 (40:54):
Yeah, I mean, I think the reason that their Trump
has made this about faces in part because they probably
have another idea for how they can the documents from
coming out. On the other hand, you know, the legislation
says that the files have to come out within thirty
days of the legislation passing, I believe, And so now
it's law, and so there's gonna be a court battle
over it. For me, I think my big question is
what is going to go on with these documents that
(41:15):
mentioned Trump's name, because we have FBI whistleblowers who have
said they were told to flag those documents. Whenever Pambondi
and cash Hotel are in front of Congress, they stonewall
about what happened to those documents. So I think it's
gonna be really hard to believe. Even if let's say
today Trump just showed up with boxes and said, here
you go, here are the documents, It's gonna be hard
for people to know that that's all of the documents.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
And there's so much material, and we already know that
there's tens of thousands of videos and pages and this
and that and photographs. Will sommer, will you please come back?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Always, no moment, Jesse Cannon.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
So one of the things when you know, ever Republicans
are in control of the House is they never show
up for work. We always see they do less days
and then we have this whole government shutdown where nothing
gets done. And now we have farmers who are basically
crying out saying like, these tariffs have destroyed our lives,
They're destroying the American economy, They're destroying our crops. Please
(42:13):
please do something. And I'll be shocked to let you know.
Nothing is getting fucking done by these assholes.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, you know you shouldn't vote for these people because
they're terrible. I just want to tell you they're terrible
and they don't give a fuck about people. So here's
the deal. Farmers are getting hit on a number of
different sides. I know you're going to be shocked to
hear this by down Trump's policies. Did they have trouble
finding people to work for them? That's part of it.
(42:39):
They're being affected by the tariffs in all different kinds
of ways, right, Because you have these tariffs that are
making other countries not want to buy food from us,
so that's affecting them. Then they have these farm workers
who are being deported or who are being arrested, or
who are scared to come to work. At every point here,
(43:00):
these farmers are kind of getting fucked And a lot
of these people are the people who voted for Trump, right,
they're like Trump space. You know, these are red state people.
You know, they're sort of lower frequency voters, and they
are now feeling the wrath of Trump's incredibly stupid and
(43:21):
terrible policies. Shockingly, by the way, this keeps fucking happening.
And I know we will forever be covering this incredibly
stupid administration and the fallout from it, but it is,
it is really something to just keep covering this, always
be covering the deaths of American democracy.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Every day. Another leopard eats another face.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Every day, and that's right. That's it for this episode
of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and
Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense
of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please
send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
(44:07):
Thanks for listening.
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.