October 13, 2025 • 42 mins
The Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson joins us to discuss Trump’s increasing hints that he will enact the Insurrection Act. Then we’ll talk to CNBC’s Andrew Ross Sorkin about his new book, 1929: Inside the Greatest Crash in Wall Street History—and How It Shattered a Nation.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds. And Donald Trump has had two routine
yearly checkups now the second one which has determined he
is in exceptional health. We have such a great show
for you today. The Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson joins
(00:21):
us to discuss Trump's increasing hints that he will enact
the Insurrection Act. Then we'll talk to CNBC's Andrew Ross
Sorkin about his new book nineteen twenty nine, Inside the
greatest Crash in Wall Street History and how it shattered
a nation. But first the news Sabali.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
On our last episode, we talked about lay offs at
the CDC over one thousand Quisberg notified layoffs, including people
on the Ebola and Meaesels task forces. And guess what
they're reversing them because this government is not careful at all.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
A guy called Russ Vaught, one of the authors of
Project twenty twenty five, you may remember him. He had
got very excited about the shutdown. He had made a
lot of threats and he saw this as an opening
to fire more people. The problem is they've already fired
so many people. And it's funny because when you would
talk to Democrats and leadership about this, I would always
(01:15):
be like, aren't you worried they're going to fire more people?
And they'd be like, they've fired so many people. And
so here it is. On Friday, russ Vot very excited.
He lays off four one hundred employees from the CDC.
I mean, by the way, if you're an administration that
has already been foiled by one pandemic, perhaps just laying
(01:38):
off all these people who deal with health might not
be the smartest move. But again, russ Vot's got to
do it for the tweets, right, And in fact, he
tweeted on Friday, the RIfS reduced in force have begun
da da da da. So they laid off the people
(01:59):
who deal with the book a bola, a blood borne
virus that makes it so you bleed out. That sounds
like something we should roll the dice with.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, it just doesn't feel like they're careful. And jd
Vance was on Kristen Welker's show this morning and when
she asked him about it, let's just say he just
danced around the issue. The entire time and would not
confront it at all because he knows that this is
total incompetence.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Also, it's expensive to have to hire these people back.
They will now have to hire these people back, they
will have to pay severance and then to rehire, and
then some of these people will not come back, and
they'll have to retrain more people. All of this ultimately
ends up being more expensive. I love that they're firing
one hundred and eighty seven people in energy, four hundred
and forty two and high one hundred and seventy six
(02:47):
in Homeland Security, ten to thirty in the EPA because
they've fired all those people already. I'm reminded of what
Russ Vot said between Trump one point zero and Trump
two point zero. He said he wanted to put federal
workers in trauma, and that's exactly what he's doing.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That was cute. Speaking of other ridiculous things, are Defense
Secretary Pete Hegseith has announced that they have finalized an
agreement though allowed the Katari Emery Air Force to build
a facility in Mountain Home, Idaho.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, the kataris basically just own our government now, and
they probably do a better job than who we have
in their believe it or not. It's so funny because
it's like the Qataris really learned that we can be
their useful idiot. I feel like in Bush too.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Right, I like that turn of phrase for this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, And by the way, like good for them. I mean,
there are so many stupid people who are doing Wow.
Good for the Qataris for being in that group of
people taking advantage of our country. I for one, salute
their ingenuity.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Their chess skills on the world stage are really killing it.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, good for them.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So I think one of the interesting things about this
government shutdown is everybody's focused on the Democrats defense of
Obamacare premiums rising, but one of the other things that's
being negotiated is that sickly is actually a big thing
that Republicans have gutted in this budget as well.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, it take no pleasure in the fact that we
were all right about all of this. And it's funny
because they're not winning on this healthcare fight. And today
we saw Mike Johnson on the Sunday Show saying the
reason that they made healthcare better in the BBB, did
you know that you'll know it's better when your premiums
go way up. That's a real good sign that things
(04:37):
have gone a lot better.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I take Mike Johnson's word at all times, honest, straight shooter.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, me too, He's an honest broker. He still won't
swear in Atlita Grahava. You know why he won't swear
in because of the discharged peedition, this mosque.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
On an island in the Caribbean.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah. I don't understand, Like I feel like they should
throw in something popular. Why does every idea they have
it has to be so unpopular, Like I feel like,
let's add one or two popular ideas just to spice
it up. But no, all of these ideas are wildly unpopular. Takeaway,
sick leave, takeaway, healthcare, take away, all of it. That's
(05:19):
where we are, so you know, there we go. Rick
Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project and the
host of The Enemies List. Rick Wilson, Oh, Molly John
Fast Trump is looking at all his options as he
always does, that threatens to invoke the Insurrection Act. Jd Vance.
(05:41):
You may remember him from being anti Trump like a
week ago and saying Trump was like Hitler. He no
longer thinks Trump is like Hitler, or maybe it was
always just to compliment discuss.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Well, look, he's keeping his options open on the Insurrection Act.
This is the joy of Donald Trump's declining mental state.
Everything feels new all the time, so there's always new options.
But yeah, Vance came out and said the quiet part
out loud. He's keeping his options open, which means they've
already made a decision to do it. And if you
look at President Stephen Miller for the last several weeks,
he's increasingly like anything that's critical of Donald Trump is insurrection.
(06:19):
Is Orientifa?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, Miss NBC has host Son the Delight Trump Antifa Antifa,
you know, run it out ed the term doesn't like insurrection.
A court comes down with a decision that doesn't go
the way they want it. Insurrection.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, Antifa judges, Antique judges, some of them. Trump is appointed.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It is fascinating how deeply Antifa has managed to reach
into our society. Molly. I mean, I look at this
and I wonder sometimes where is Antifa headquarters. It's got
to be about the same size as the Pentagon. It's
got to have millions of people working for it. It's
the greatest conspiracy that no one ever really was able
to point to. And I wait, by the way, since
they did arrest their girlfriend of the head of Antifa.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yes, yes, so let's let's just from Canada.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
You don't know where she's not on social media.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Let's talk about what we're watching here right now. So
we have vans and Trump Trump went for I think
we can can we have two seconds on Trump going
for a physical. I know he's not Joe Biden, so
we're not allowed to talk about his health, right And I'm.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Waiting for somebody to write the book about this one?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Is someone talk to Jake Tapper?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I was told that that is the biggest possible issue
with the president, as if their mental facilities are declining,
that we have to obsessively cover just that subject so
for all future things.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So I wait, Trump goes back for his yearly physical
in less than a year, in like five months, right, what.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
We should really be saying Trump went back for his
post stroke physical.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, we don't know what is happening, but we do
know that his yearly physical is now happening twice a year.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
You know, we also know that Donald Trump is once
again has the cardiac fitness of a twenty four year
old super athlete that he is six feet seven inches tall,
weighs one hundred and seventy five pounds, and his body
is comprised of pure muscle, and in.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
That pure muscle is a COVID shot.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
And I want all of our MAGA friends to just
follow the President's example and get the COVID shot.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So I haven't gotten a COVID vaccine in a while.
I probably will, but I've just been lazy and involved.
I had the shingricks shot this year.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Oh, I have that too, and I am grateful I
did because everybody I've ever known who's gotten shingles is like,
it's like you will want to die.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, and also it's linked with dementia. So I got
the shingles vax, and I will get the flu and
I'll get the COVID. But I am not a person
who has run against those vaccines. So I think it's
pretty incredible. You have RFK Junior who is gone wild
on health's going well.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
On health related conspiracies. Let's be let's let's make sure
we clarify that well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I think going wild on anything is pejorative.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Perhaps Girl's Gone Wild the Great documentary.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, it's a documentary. That's right. Yeah, that's how I
think of girls gone wild. So, but he's gone wild
on house, Donald Trump. But there's something in that Donald
Trump's yearly weekly physical that I want you that you
actually drew my attention to. What was the phrase stroke
follow up? No, it was not stop trying to get
(09:31):
me sued? What was the phrase?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Well, now I can't remember what phrase.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I I think it was enhanced imaging.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Oh, yes, it is enhanced imaging, which they can't do
with the White House. That in medical parlance means that
it was an MRI or a full CT.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right, So you do that?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Why you do that as a part of the stroke
follow up?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Or something needs.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
To be some other or some other magnificant medical consequence. Right,
it is entailed in Trump's declining physical health. Right, So
listen to official I can sound, but I want.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
To someone tell Jake Tapper is the net neet of
this story? Jake, Well, it may not be.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
If you wanted to look at publicly facing examples of
Donald Trump's declining mental state. You've had the weekend middle
of the night tweets.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You've had that's my man at his best, though not
sleeping and tweeting crazy shit koffefe. Yeah, from season one, remember.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Kaffee, kaffee, kaffee, whatever the fuck it was from season
one was a It was a classic. But look, I
think I think everyone is watching right now a white
House week he disappeared. There is that weekly disappear. This
is a White House under tremendous pressure a lot of different.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Angles to destroy democracy. Can they there is that?
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Hey, look they're trying to get this Middle East thing
as a as a win because they need a win
of some kind. The country hates the ice deployments in
the street of America. They hate it. About twenty percent
of the voters overall like it. Those are the same
people who have the truck nuts and the and the
boat parades. The economy is on a brink of absolute
(11:14):
economic terror. The Chinese have called Trump's boff. We're back
to full trade war with a billion percent tiers on China.
One billion. He's gone, He's gone. That's on that. So
we're in a moment where the unpopularity of the immigration rates,
the unpopularity of ice on the streets of America, the
unpopularity of the trade agenda, the unpopularity of the economic agenda,
the unpopularity of the shutdown. It's all accrued to Trump.
(11:35):
And by the way, folks do not fall for the
bullshit from the Trump world or from the media that
this is hurting the Democrats. The voters don't understand that
Donald Trump controls the White House, the Congress, the Senate,
and the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Do you think they do, Yeah, I know they're seeing.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
We're sitting We're seeing in our polling and everybody else
is pulling is showing this is accruing to Trump. They
are blaming Trump for this, and he understands it at
a lizard brain level that this is not working out
the way he thought it would work out. And it's
going to continue, I think, to escalate because the economic
I mean, look, the markets are now getting very yippy,
(12:13):
ma jittery. We had a bitcoin crash over the weekend.
People are buying fucking.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Gold, Yeah, they are.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
My portfolio is gold, canned goods, and ammunition. Is a
max now becoming a rational statement.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
My long suffering Spasse I was like asking him about
gold and he was like, you know, at some point
you have problems because you don't have the gold to
back up the gold.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yes, yeah, you don't have the gold for the gold
that the backup.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Right, So that seems like a problem. But I mean
it definitely seems like things are not good.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
No, we're in a moment I think of pretty maximalized chaos.
It is not great right now. And again you're seeing
this entire Middle East thing because the Katar bribe Trump
with a five billion dollar resort that they'll pay for
that he'll own another bribe on top of the airplane.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I actually think the best thing we have going for
us right now and the best like I think the
Middle East thing honestly good. The Guitaris, you know, like
they may not be the best actors, but if they
get this thing to stop that Danu right right, people
say exactly good, good for them. My question for you,
(13:26):
the reason why I think the thing I think is
going to happen with the Middle East, of which I'm
not sure they understand, is that most of the elites
care about the Middle East. But I think most of
the Americans don't give a fuck.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Americans, they literally are more worried about like changing the
tires on their car, than they are worried about the
Middle East. Right, I will say this is another unanticipated consequence.
People have not figured this out yet. Beating at in
Yahoo has survived being put He's not in prison because
he keeps going to war. He's been doing this for
almost fifteen years now, and he does not profit politically
(14:03):
by peace. So there will be a moment very soon
where he will have a new crisis and it will
be a new thing, and it will set the Middle
East sunfire again. And that is not, by the way,
for my listeners and your listeners. That is not saying,
oh Hamas is a harmless just a they're terrible fucking monsters.
(14:24):
But net and Yahoo over has faced more and more
internal pressure because he doesn't want peace. He needs a
constant state of battle and war and fear and terror.
Because there's one thing that Israeli citizens, as much as
they don't like the guy, in a lot of ways,
they're like, Okay, if shit's going really, really bad, we
(14:45):
gotta have bb in there because he's crazy. Yeah, And
that is going to be sooner than later. The internal
political pressure in Israel is going to be like, Okay,
now that we're at peace, bbe, well, you gotta go.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Get again, yeah. Will that will not be pretty and
I'm sure that will be crazy, and I'm sure that
will get Trump crazy. One of the reasons why I
think Trump's health is not good is because of the
people who are fighting to run Trump's government right now,
and you feel it bubbling under the surface. We have
jd Vance announcing things, and even jd Vance announcing that
(15:22):
Trump might go insurrection on all of our asses. That
strikes me as a sign that jadi Vance is making moves.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Jd Vance wants to be president and he believes that
right now. He's got an alliance with Stephen Miller at
the moment, so he's been out there very front and
center on a lot of the insurrection, immigration ice stuff.
If you watch him online, he's adopted very much the
edge lord ship posting style of the Jack Pisobiac wing
(15:50):
of the party. Yes, of the loudmouth wing of the party.
He's inserting himself a lot into that world because he
thinks that world, and I he's not.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Wrong, that world helps you.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
That world is a real unlock for ye twenty eight.
The other wing of the party internally, Trump himself is
a separate camp inside the White House. Now you've got
the heg Seth block you've got the Rubio wing. You
know you've got You've got a lot of these other.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Has brought everyone home, brought all the military home.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
No, the famous thing last week that I thought was
just great was Peterex is such a whiny, thirsty pitch.
He sends out a memo, d O D White, like
you must certify in writing that you have seen my video.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I love that everybody leaks. The one good thing is
that everybody you know like it's just it. And CBS
is another great example of like, if you don't like
your boss, you're gonna spend all your time just trying
to tarnish that person. Like every time Barry White does anything,
it's reported on more than anything, It gets more ratings
(16:59):
than CNA.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
As I like to think of Puck these days, it's
like the Barry Weiss Channel. Yes, every story is about
Barry Weiss or Disney, but yeah, the focus on internal
schisms in the White House is really important to understand.
You've now got Dan Scavino going over to take over
personnel from Sergio Gore. What happened to Joe is going
(17:20):
to India to be the ambassador.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So that is usually you go, you get sent far
away when the when the White House is nervous about.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Diplomatically, India is not an A posting, as they say, right,
you know, but you want your A postings. It's Court
to Saint James.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Right, it's Paris, but it's Rome. It's but those are expensive.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
They're they're expensive. Now I think has some money. I'm
not sure. I think he has some money, but I
don't know that he has. Nobody has Court to Saint
James money unless you're there.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, that's like you have to.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
You're gonna spend twenty thirty million dollars of your own
money every year entertaining people ambassador. Yeah, not cheap, but yeah,
I don't know what the internal story on that is.
But Sergio Gore had some stuff about his background, you know,
was he really born in Russia? Did he lie on
his s F eighty six's So I think they're shuffling
him off the stage.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Well, because you know, Don Junior's ex girlfriend, like it
tends to be, when the regime decides you're possibly problematic,
you get shipped off.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah. But it's interesting because they're both these different groups
in the White House are both fighting and forming new
alliances and new permutations. It is about as incestuous as
a cousin fucking convention in bumfuck Alabama. Okay, it is
a smaller and smaller circle of people who actually talk
to Trump again, unless he's calling out, what do you
think about this? Jared's made his big comeback.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Every piece of reporting on the Middle East is like
and then Jared Kushner said, and I'm like, who are
your sources? I can't can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Who could I can't imagine.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
I was listening to the Playbook podcast and they were
talking us through how it happened and.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Piece of the world. I'm going to nominate you Kushner
for a Nobel Peace Prize, just for spite.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
By the way, the fact that Donald Trump this week,
Donald Trump did not get a Nobel Peace Prize, in
spite of the fact that every country pretty much you
know what, seven countries nominated him.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, you put troops in your own streets, You're probably
not getting a Nobel Peace Price.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Just let you know.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
This is a future standard for future authoritarians. Just let
you know, if you put troops in the streets, you
are probably not going to get the Nobel Peace Prize.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Incredible stuff all around, There were a couple of newspaper
articles this week. Newspapers, you'll remember those.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I do remember those.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Media articles about how Stephen Miller is actually running the
White House. It was one in CNN.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Oh yeah, yeah, Well listen, I call him the domestic
president because Marco has a little cluster of power and
foreign policy. Heg saidre's a little cluster of power in
defense policy. But Stephen Miller is running and the Miller
Fought alliance is like this. They are inseparable, and they
both believe that at maximalist application of presidential power will
(20:04):
be protected by the Supreme Court, and that the I word,
saying it over and over again will mainstream it enough
to where and now, by the way, you do see it.
You do see it out there in the country. People
like Antifa has got an insurrection. So right, so you
know what, Miller is the most powerful force in the
White House. I have been told by two separate people
(20:26):
that know Susie Wiles that she is beside herself. She
is now a secretary. She is not the powerful chief
of staff. She is a secretary. Steven Miller goes, we're
going to do X. And if he even tells her
about it, which he frequently apparently does not. She's the
person who does the administrative backup. Miller runs the DOJ
with an iron fist. He is personally running the Lindsay
(20:48):
Halligan operation. I'm told. So Miller has had a amazing
rise to power.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So is he the boss really of this administration right now?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Absolutely? For everything domestic. There's little fiefdoms in foreign policy,
and Bessett has a fiefdom in Treasury Secretary Treasury Trade.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Uh, that's going great. In case, that's going great. I mean, yeah,
good job, Scott, Thank you for being the norm By
the way, remember remember Norman.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Oh yeah, Scott Besson's a normany He's a regular person. Yeah,
so is Susie Wilds. She's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Well she was fine, but she's out and he is
whatever he is. I mean, it's hard for me to
imagine this.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Luck holds look Miller's difficulty. And I've known this since
I I didn't we were never friends, but I knew
him when he was in the Senate as a staffer
for sessions, and knew Hi when he was in the
House and the staff for a little bit. Not not again,
we're never close. If I had ever heard anything about
Stephen Miller before the Trump earent people were like, he's
fucking nuts about immigration. He's so nuts about immigration that
(21:51):
if you go and say what should we get on
our pizza, He'll start talking about immigration. So he's really
had the moment of he got ice into our streets,
he got the troops into the streets. He's gotten most
of the law enforcement operations in the federal government now
switched over to being immigration police. I mean half the
FBI people in the field offices are now working immigration cases.
And so he's had great success with that. He's managed
(22:11):
to drive the national dialogue on that to a great degree.
But his difficulty is he's a terrible manager, he's terrible
to get along with, he's psychotic, and he has this
vision of America that is only appealing to a very,
very very small piece of the.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Government of the popastviel country. Yeah, and look, when.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
You ask people, do you want to secure the border?
Eighty percent of Americans go, yeah, sure. Do you want
to throw immigrant children onto the ground in cold Chicago
winter nights when they're zip tide? No, that's what not
what they want, And that's what Miller wants. He wants
the theater of cruelty and spectacle of harming these people
who have come here to work. And you notice something.
They've had to sort of shift from Trendiagua.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
To immigrants because there's no there's not.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Enough trendiagua out there. There's not enough MS thirteen out there.
So now they've chifted over to Antifa, which has the
benefit for them of not existing being.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Really Rick Wilson, well, can you come back absolutely. Andrew
Ross Sorkin is a financial columnist for The New York
Times and co anchor of CNBC squawk Box, and the
author of nineteen twenty nine Inside, the Greatest Crash in
Wall Street History and How It Shattered a nation. Welcome
(23:25):
Too Fast Politics, Andrew Ross Sorkin.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Thank you for having me. It's nice to see you
like this.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It's nice to see you too. I'm excited about this book.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I'm excited about being on your show. I want you
to know. I mean, we've known each other for quite
a bit and I get to sit next to you
on TV and all the things. Yes, but this is
like a whole other operation.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
We have a lot of parallels in our lives, including
your wife, who is amazing and one of the great
people and very very smart, and also just was instrumental
in my writing of my book. So I feel like
it's very apropos that we're talking to you about your book,
because you know, you had a similar situation to me,
(24:05):
and the fact that you have something you do as
a day job. You wanted to write a book that
was a real book, that wasn't outtakes from your day job.
And that's how you got to this, right, That's.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
How I got to this. But as a result, it
took forever. Yes, this took eight years. I went into
this project thinking, Okay, maybe I'll do it in a
year or two, maybe a little longer. But this just,
you know, it swallowed my life in a good way.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
For the four people who listen to those podcasts who
don't know exactly who you are. You write about finance,
you write about markets, you write about the economy, you
write your book. I feel like you have many jobs
like I do. Right, you're part of the gig economy.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Gig economy. So New York Times CNTAC, I see you
on MSNBC. I wrote books and make movies and TV
shows and other things.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So yes, and this book is about a financial crisis,
but not the most recent one.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
So I wrote about that crisis too in two thousand
and eight, a book called Too Big to Fail, And
I actually, in may think that this is like the
prequel to that. So this is about the most infamous
financial crisis in history in nineteen twenty nine. And the
truth is I almost did it because I didn't know
too much about it. That's what sort of led me
to want to even try to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Give us, like the top lines about what you learned.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
The biggest top line, more than anything else, is that
this was a human drama. It was like a It
was a story about people. We oftentimes, I think, think
about the world of finance as you know, about systems
and economics and structures. But I think one of the
lessons that I've found just over my whole career is
it's never really about all those things. I mean, those
(25:43):
things come into play, but it's about human beings who
are all just like us, make good decisions and oftentimes
make bad decisions, and make decisions for all sorts of
strangeries and sometimes their petty decisions, sometimes their ego decisions,
and all sorts of things and so I was basically
trying to unearth in the archives who these people really were.
(26:07):
I'd never you know, you read a lot of things
about ninet twenty ninety, you don't really know who the
people are. What are they saying to each other, who's
sleeping with who, who's trying to screw over who? What's
going on? And that's what I really want to understand.
And once I think you could figure that out, it
really almost opens up the whole story into something that
just it feels like a drama, but also I think
(26:28):
makes it a lot more understandable.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, I personally believe that every bad thing is
a failure of regulation, but that's my own peccadillos. Is
that what it is? I mean, how do you get
to nineteen twenty nine?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Okay? So I think it starts with the human condition,
which is the human condition. I hate to say it
is a little bit greedy, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I'm shocked. How is that possible?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I think that people want and they want more, and
so when you talk about regulation, yes, if the human
condition is is to want to want more, the question
is where do you put the guardrails? And the truth is,
you do need a little bit of speculation to create innovation.
I mean, I think speculation and innovation are kind of
(27:13):
like twins, right, that's enough ways, And so you don't
want to have no speculation. I mean, even if you
think of whatever you think about Elon Musk, somebody had
to speculate early and believe that there was something that
seemed completely insane to believe that it was going to work.
So you do need some speculation, but you don't want
it to get out of control. And I think what
happened in the late twenties was one of the first
(27:35):
and biggest examples of things getting totally out of control.
And it was a story about an entire generation that
really had the It was their first opportunity in reality
to gamble like this. I mean people, by the way,
prior to nineteen nineteen, people didn't take on credit or
debt to do anything. It was a moral sin in
America if you had credit or took a loan out.
(27:56):
By the mid twenties, people were taking out loans to
buy stocks. You know. Brokerages were on the corners of the
streets like they're Starbucks. It would walk in and you
could give them a dollar. They would give you ten,
you could borrow ten dollars, and as long as the
market's going up, it's all free money to you.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
So that's the same as two thousand and eight.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
That's the same as two thousand and eight. I would
argue to some extent, that's the same.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
A little bit as right now.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Well, what's going on with artificial intelligence right now? Just
this remarkable boom that's taking place, which also is being,
you know, backed by a lot of leverage. I don't
want to say we're there yet, but I think we're
in the early stages, and so I think we need
to be mindful of just, you know, how far this goes.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
It seems like it's going to go far. I mean,
it's hard for me to imagine that there's not, from
what I understand, quite a lot of deregulation going on
right now in a lot of different sectors.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
In a lot of different sectors, and specifically by the
way of the stock market. I mean, one of the
things that's happening literally right now is the Trump administration
is making things that were never available to the public available.
So you know, we never allowed people, the public, if
you will, to invest in private companies typically there was
something called an accredited investor rule. You had to have
a million dollars to invest in a startup company, because
(29:08):
the view is we didn't want people to use their
hard earned money and risk it and lose it and
their charlatans and fraud. In private companies, public companies have
to disclose information and do all sorts of regulatory audits.
We are now about to put private company investments, venture capital,
private equity, what's called private credit crypto inside of your
retirement fund, inside your four to one K. I mean,
(29:29):
this is a total revolution in finance, and it's happening
in front of us. But President just announced his plan
to reduce the number of times a year. Typically companies
have to declare their earnings four times a year and
provide audited financials, answer questions from investors, journalists and analysts
and the like, and he says, maybe we should do
(29:49):
that twice a year, so less transparency. So all of
that is happening against the backdrop of this other new
AI boom, and it's those kind of things that make
me anxious.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
But the general feeling right now is that the market
feels that the rate cuts that are coming will be
enough to create a rally despite those, right, I mean
that's the general feeling.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
I mean, I think part of it is this rate
cut piece, and part of it is, you know, a
generational investment piece of buying into the future. And this
is exactly what was happening, By the way, in nineteen
twenty nine, there was a huge debate going on in
nineteen twenty and literally about should they lower interest rates?
Should they raise interest rates? If they raise interest rates,
are they going to slow down the economy if they
(30:33):
lower interest rates? Is it just going to make it
more and more speculative? How independence the Fed? Actually, these
are questions that were happening then. And by the way,
if Nvidia is the meme stock of today, you know,
there was something called RCA which was radio in twenty nine,
and everybody was betting that that was the future. By
(30:54):
the way, they were right, it was the future, but
it didn't matter. Well, it didn't matter in that the
stock when it point if you were betting on this,
I think it was up at five hundred and thirty
six dollars a share, and by nineteen thirty two it
was three dollars a share. Now radio persisted, right, RCAA
actually still did exist, it's not that it went out
of business. And it's similar to the dot com bubble.
There were a lot of businesses that started in the
(31:15):
dot com bubble. The Internet is here, Amazon is still here,
but there's a lot of other companies that fell by
the wayside along the way.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And it's also all about timing right, Like you could
have bought a credit default swap for the two thousand
and eight crash, but if you bought it six months
too early, you wouldn't have been able to afford to
keep it right.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Well, that's the thing about every bubble. People always say,
are we in a bubble? And I say, of course,
we're in a bubble. What I just can't tell you
is is the bubble going to pop tomorrow? Is going
to pop in five or six years. And if you
bet that it's going to pop tomorrow when it doesn't
pop for five or six years, that's a bad bet.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, which is pretty insane. I want you to talk
about the dollar, because this here has actually been a
really bad year for the dollar.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Well, that's an interesting issue in the context of sort
of where you think the the US economy is, and
not just the economy, but the country. I mean, this
goes to the politics of what's happening in the country,
the belief in the dollar long term. Other way, this
is sort of gets that, you know why they're not
just crypto bros, but folks around the world now that
are interested in bitcoin and other things. Frankly has alternatives
(32:19):
to the dollar. We've always talked about, you know, will
there be an alternative to the dollar at some point?
Is enough for the rest of the world going and
not believe in the dollar the way they have, right,
And that's a real question. Now the world is also relative, right,
It's not exactly like everybody is going to you know,
be cashing in their dollars for euros or for r
(32:39):
and b's and China. I mean, like it's just.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Not know, a lot of people are going to gold.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
I mean, there are people who are investing in gold,
and that's I think very similar to the sort of
bitcoin game, to the extent that people think that bitcoin
is some kind of digital goal.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Right though, wouldn't you be I mean just real talk,
wouldn't you feel much more comfortable with gold than bitcoin.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
It's interesting because both of them are almost like religion.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Right, No, Well, that is for sure, no, but.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Both of them are sort of a belief system. The
older generation believes in physical gold, the younger generation believes
in what they think is digital gold. Is one better
than the other, I don't know, because neither produce anything.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Right, true, Laarren Buffett.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
We always say I prefer to own a farm because
if I work my farm, it can actually produce eggs,
It could produce we could reduce stuff in the ground,
and I could get something for it. Bitcoin is not
that bitcoin. It's not a Ponzi scheme, but you have
to believe that's gonna be worth more tomorrow than it is.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Today, right And there are people who think it's a
Ponzi scheme, though I'm not one of them. One of
the many things that I like about you is that
you make me think I feel like you're like my
husband in this way. That there are good capitalists, that
there are people who both want to make money and
not be evil. Right now, we have not seen a
ton of that. We have seen the people who have
(33:58):
been loudest in this country right now tend to be
the ones who are going along to get along. Celebrating
Trump is a I haven't seen a ton of the
good guys out there.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
So here's the thing. And I think about this, and
maybe you'll think I'm being too sympathetic or empathetic or something.
I think right now, no matter who you are, whether
you are the best guy in the world or best
woman in the world, or you think you're a complete
sickophant to whoever's in power, I think it's very hard
to stand up and raise your hand and say I
(34:34):
don't like what's happening here. This is crazy to truly
speak out. I wish people did, but I think, really,
you know, the prevailing view is you look at some
of the people running the companies in America today, the
billionaire class. You say, they're the ones if anybody can
stand up, they're the ones who should be able to
stand up. And the truth is that I'm not sure
that money is either emotional armor or frankly legal armor.
(34:58):
And I think a lot of people look take Bill Gates,
for example, I actually think that Bill Gates, who obviously
started Microsoft and is giving extraordinary amounts of money away,
has not been as vocal as you might want to
think he should be. Potentially, I don't know around these issues,
but the truth is, I think that he thinks he
could be a target, an actual target, a personal target,
and I think we're seeing it, you know, whether it's
(35:20):
George Soros or Reed Hoffman now potentially being targeted. Comy
is an example of it. Whether you put the colleges
or the law firms, or what happened with CBS in paramount,
or you know, go down the list. And so I
think that I don't want to say it's a lot
to ask these folks to raise their hand, but I
think there's a trade off. And the question is if
you raise your hand today, what happens to you and
(35:41):
what do you get for it? So, if you raise
your hand today's stee what's going on in Washington is
not shouldn't be happening, you clearly are going to get
the anger and a truth social post at minimum. At maximum,
you could have your taxes pulled and something bad happened
to your company, and all sorts of things happen. Now
on the upside, what would you actually in this moment,
given that Congress and Senate and the White House are
(36:04):
controlled by republic, what would you actually get for raising
your hand and doing it in this actual moment? And
so I think that that's a little bit of the
gamble here. It's like if I raise my hand, now,
what do I get for it? Maybe if the Dems
get the House in the midterms, does that change the dynamic.
Maybe if enough people, if enough crazy things happen and
then people band together and raise my hand, that that
(36:26):
is different. So I think that that's a little bit
of the calculus. I'm not saying it's the right calculus,
but I think that's the conversation.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
So you think there are people on the sidelines who
are waiting for the moment when they can be like, look,
this is not who we are.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
I think there's a lot of people who, deep down
in their heart know that there are problems and real threats.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I'm thinking about the pair of military staff.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Yeahh no, No, I think there are people who think
that some of this is crazy, No question. There are
people who think this is crazy, and I think they're
trying to figure out, how could I have an impact?
And if I could have an impact, if I could
have a good impact, I'd do it. But if I
have no impact and also have the chance of being slaughtered, right,
maybe I won't do it. The one thing that's scary
about all of this is I do think there are
(37:13):
some people sort of running America today that you've noticed,
are now sort of in the club.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
You get close to the White House, you get close
to the present, you're in the system, and I think
even people who came in skeptically, they start to believe.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Right. Scott Beson is a good example.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
You believe, you know, even if you come I wasn't
Eve talking about Scott Besson. I was saying, they're CEOs,
twoere Democrats who clearly appear like they have switched. And
I think some have switched for convenience. But I think
in the process of switching for convenience, if you will,
some start to believe it because you're around it all
the time. And that's an interesting dynamic as to what
(37:49):
happens later with those folks.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
There's a lot of craziness. I do think it is
a little bit interesting. Like there's a specific hedge fund
manager who is a Republican owner who's been really vocally
calling out Trump about certain things. I've been very impressed
with that.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Are you referring to Ken Griffin?
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Yeah, No, I think has actually been fascinating. He's the
only one forget of being a Republican. He's the only
person I can sort of single out and identify who's
been out there saying there are things that this president's
doing that he doesn't agree with.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
And by the way, undermining the FED that is something
ninety nine point nine nine nine percent of people think
is bad. I mean, does anyone think that's going to
be good for the economy?
Speaker 4 (38:32):
No, nobody, nobody.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
It's not like a controversial issue he's calling him out on.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
That should be an easy one. And maybe, by the way,
you could argue it's easier for Ken to say these
things because this is an easy one.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Right, But I also think part of it is that
is brave, Like I mean, it may not seem like
it because he's in that club, but it kind of is.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Yeah. No, I look, I give an enormous amount of
credit he's been out there on that. He's been out
there on this issue about the disclosures of information that
public companies should have. He's been one of the few
who hasn't you know, totally fallen in line.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
The tariffs are going to the Supreme Court and they're
going to be a real I mean, we're basically having
a Koch brother and Leonard Leo versus the Trump administration,
and the Supreme Court is going to decide. I mean,
do you have any thoughts on this? Like it feels
like the showdown to end all showdowns.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
So I think it's an important showdown, But I don't
know if it's the showdown to end all showdowns, because
even if the tariffs as currently constructed are slapped down
by this court, there are other mechanisms with which this
administration can use to effectively implement tariffs that look very similar,
(39:47):
maybe not exactly, And maybe he's going to have to
do it at fifteen month increments and have to keep
putting them in place, and maybe those will go to
have legal challenges as well. But it's not so clear
to me that because the Supreme Court says, if they
were to say these tariffs or illegal, that this is
the end of the tariff story.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, super interesting, very cool to get to talk to you.
Thank you, Andrew, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
No moment.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
With Wilson, Lovely jog Fast. I'm subjecting you to my
moment of frockrated.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
I I'm here for you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
So it's a lot of people who are up in
arms about fairy Wise taking over CBS, except for the
people who are very excited because she represents their worldview.
I have a hot take that I'd like you and
I to chat about for a minute, which is that
Bary Wise is actually about to engage with the glass
(40:44):
cliff to end all glass cliffs.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Oh yeah, explain, CBS is a venerable and honorable institution
over eighty years now. It is also like a lot
of media operations targeting a bunch of boomers who will
be dead soon. When you're media and audience seventy five
years old, that means half of them are older. It's insane.
That's not a market you can sustain unless you're selling
depends and adult supplements. So I think she may shock
(41:10):
some of her people who look at her and think, oh,
she's a winger. She's on our side. I think Barry
Weiss may be more iconoclastic than either the left or
the right things in this equation. I hope so, because
I think that would actually be good for the network.
You know, you take that story brand and those great
deep resources they have, and if your leadership is let's
go like make big news and cover big stories, I
(41:32):
don't know. I think you've got an opportunity there. The
death knell would be if the corporate dickheads go, Okay,
soften it up, more news magazine things, that shit is dead.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
You're overly optimistic. I actually think this is just another
woman being put in an impossible spot to fire people
and get blamed.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
She may the thing that goes with that long standing,
storied bureaucracy or institution is a bureaucracy and a culture.
And even if that culture needs to change, all cultures
resist change. So I am not a Barry Weiss fanboy,
and I'm not a Berry Weiss panicker. I think she's
very smart. And look, she built free Press into something
(42:11):
meaningful in three and a half years, built a really
big brand that sold for one hundred fucking million dollars.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
That ain't nothing wow anyway, But agreed.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
If she fails, well they go. Women can't run media networks.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah they will.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Yeah, Rick Wilson, I hope you'll come back as always,
see you next time.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best
minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If
you enjoy this podcast, Please send it to a friend
and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds. And Donald Trump has had two routine
yearly checkups now the second one which has determined he
is in exceptional health. We have such a great show
for you today. The Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson joins
(00:21):
us to discuss Trump's increasing hints that he will enact
the Insurrection Act. Then we'll talk to CNBC's Andrew Ross
Sorkin about his new book nineteen twenty nine, Inside the
greatest Crash in Wall Street History and how it shattered
a nation. But first the news Sabali.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
On our last episode, we talked about lay offs at
the CDC over one thousand Quisberg notified layoffs, including people
on the Ebola and Meaesels task forces. And guess what
they're reversing them because this government is not careful at all.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
A guy called Russ Vaught, one of the authors of
Project twenty twenty five, you may remember him. He had
got very excited about the shutdown. He had made a
lot of threats and he saw this as an opening
to fire more people. The problem is they've already fired
so many people. And it's funny because when you would
talk to Democrats and leadership about this, I would always
(01:15):
be like, aren't you worried they're going to fire more people?
And they'd be like, they've fired so many people. And
so here it is. On Friday, russ Vot very excited.
He lays off four one hundred employees from the CDC.
I mean, by the way, if you're an administration that
has already been foiled by one pandemic, perhaps just laying
(01:38):
off all these people who deal with health might not
be the smartest move. But again, russ Vot's got to
do it for the tweets, right, And in fact, he
tweeted on Friday, the RIfS reduced in force have begun
da da da da. So they laid off the people
(01:59):
who deal with the book a bola, a blood borne
virus that makes it so you bleed out. That sounds
like something we should roll the dice with.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, it just doesn't feel like they're careful. And jd
Vance was on Kristen Welker's show this morning and when
she asked him about it, let's just say he just
danced around the issue. The entire time and would not
confront it at all because he knows that this is
total incompetence.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Also, it's expensive to have to hire these people back.
They will now have to hire these people back, they
will have to pay severance and then to rehire, and
then some of these people will not come back, and
they'll have to retrain more people. All of this ultimately
ends up being more expensive. I love that they're firing
one hundred and eighty seven people in energy, four hundred
and forty two and high one hundred and seventy six
(02:47):
in Homeland Security, ten to thirty in the EPA because
they've fired all those people already. I'm reminded of what
Russ Vot said between Trump one point zero and Trump
two point zero. He said he wanted to put federal
workers in trauma, and that's exactly what he's doing.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
That was cute. Speaking of other ridiculous things, are Defense
Secretary Pete Hegseith has announced that they have finalized an
agreement though allowed the Katari Emery Air Force to build
a facility in Mountain Home, Idaho.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, the kataris basically just own our government now, and
they probably do a better job than who we have
in their believe it or not. It's so funny because
it's like the Qataris really learned that we can be
their useful idiot. I feel like in Bush too.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Right, I like that turn of phrase for this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yeah, And by the way, like good for them. I mean,
there are so many stupid people who are doing Wow.
Good for the Qataris for being in that group of
people taking advantage of our country. I for one, salute
their ingenuity.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Their chess skills on the world stage are really killing it.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yeah, good for them.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
So I think one of the interesting things about this
government shutdown is everybody's focused on the Democrats defense of
Obamacare premiums rising, but one of the other things that's
being negotiated is that sickly is actually a big thing
that Republicans have gutted in this budget as well.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yeah, it take no pleasure in the fact that we
were all right about all of this. And it's funny
because they're not winning on this healthcare fight. And today
we saw Mike Johnson on the Sunday Show saying the
reason that they made healthcare better in the BBB, did
you know that you'll know it's better when your premiums
go way up. That's a real good sign that things
(04:37):
have gone a lot better.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
I take Mike Johnson's word at all times, honest, straight shooter.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Yeah, me too, He's an honest broker. He still won't
swear in Atlita Grahava. You know why he won't swear
in because of the discharged peedition, this mosque.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
On an island in the Caribbean.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah. I don't understand, Like I feel like they should
throw in something popular. Why does every idea they have
it has to be so unpopular, Like I feel like,
let's add one or two popular ideas just to spice
it up. But no, all of these ideas are wildly unpopular. Takeaway,
sick leave, takeaway, healthcare, take away, all of it. That's
(05:19):
where we are, so you know, there we go. Rick
Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln Project and the
host of The Enemies List. Rick Wilson, Oh, Molly John
Fast Trump is looking at all his options as he
always does, that threatens to invoke the Insurrection Act. Jd Vance.
(05:41):
You may remember him from being anti Trump like a
week ago and saying Trump was like Hitler. He no
longer thinks Trump is like Hitler, or maybe it was
always just to compliment discuss.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Well, look, he's keeping his options open on the Insurrection Act.
This is the joy of Donald Trump's declining mental state.
Everything feels new all the time, so there's always new options.
But yeah, Vance came out and said the quiet part
out loud. He's keeping his options open, which means they've
already made a decision to do it. And if you
look at President Stephen Miller for the last several weeks,
he's increasingly like anything that's critical of Donald Trump is insurrection.
(06:19):
Is Orientifa?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Right?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Yeah, Miss NBC has host Son the Delight Trump Antifa Antifa,
you know, run it out ed the term doesn't like insurrection.
A court comes down with a decision that doesn't go
the way they want it. Insurrection.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, Antifa judges, Antique judges, some of them. Trump is appointed.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
It is fascinating how deeply Antifa has managed to reach
into our society. Molly. I mean, I look at this
and I wonder sometimes where is Antifa headquarters. It's got
to be about the same size as the Pentagon. It's
got to have millions of people working for it. It's
the greatest conspiracy that no one ever really was able
to point to. And I wait, by the way, since
they did arrest their girlfriend of the head of Antifa.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
Yes, yes, so let's let's just from Canada.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
You don't know where she's not on social media.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
Let's talk about what we're watching here right now. So
we have vans and Trump Trump went for I think
we can can we have two seconds on Trump going
for a physical. I know he's not Joe Biden, so
we're not allowed to talk about his health, right And I'm.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Waiting for somebody to write the book about this one?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Is someone talk to Jake Tapper?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
I was told that that is the biggest possible issue
with the president, as if their mental facilities are declining,
that we have to obsessively cover just that subject so
for all future things.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
So I wait, Trump goes back for his yearly physical
in less than a year, in like five months, right, what.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
We should really be saying Trump went back for his
post stroke physical.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well, we don't know what is happening, but we do
know that his yearly physical is now happening twice a year.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
You know, we also know that Donald Trump is once
again has the cardiac fitness of a twenty four year
old super athlete that he is six feet seven inches tall,
weighs one hundred and seventy five pounds, and his body
is comprised of pure muscle, and in.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
That pure muscle is a COVID shot.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
And I want all of our MAGA friends to just
follow the President's example and get the COVID shot.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
So I haven't gotten a COVID vaccine in a while.
I probably will, but I've just been lazy and involved.
I had the shingricks shot this year.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Oh, I have that too, and I am grateful I
did because everybody I've ever known who's gotten shingles is like,
it's like you will want to die.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, and also it's linked with dementia. So I got
the shingles vax, and I will get the flu and
I'll get the COVID. But I am not a person
who has run against those vaccines. So I think it's
pretty incredible. You have RFK Junior who is gone wild
on health's going well.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
On health related conspiracies. Let's be let's let's make sure
we clarify that well.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
I think going wild on anything is pejorative.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Perhaps Girl's Gone Wild the Great documentary.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, it's a documentary. That's right. Yeah, that's how I
think of girls gone wild. So, but he's gone wild
on house, Donald Trump. But there's something in that Donald
Trump's yearly weekly physical that I want you that you
actually drew my attention to. What was the phrase stroke
follow up? No, it was not stop trying to get
(09:31):
me sued? What was the phrase?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Well, now I can't remember what phrase.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
I I think it was enhanced imaging.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Oh, yes, it is enhanced imaging, which they can't do
with the White House. That in medical parlance means that
it was an MRI or a full CT.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Right, So you do that?
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Why you do that as a part of the stroke
follow up?
Speaker 1 (09:53):
Or something needs.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
To be some other or some other magnificant medical consequence. Right,
it is entailed in Trump's declining physical health. Right, So
listen to official I can sound, but I want.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
To someone tell Jake Tapper is the net neet of
this story? Jake, Well, it may not be.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
If you wanted to look at publicly facing examples of
Donald Trump's declining mental state. You've had the weekend middle
of the night tweets.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
You've had that's my man at his best, though not
sleeping and tweeting crazy shit koffefe. Yeah, from season one, remember.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Kaffee, kaffee, kaffee, whatever the fuck it was from season
one was a It was a classic. But look, I
think I think everyone is watching right now a white
House week he disappeared. There is that weekly disappear. This
is a White House under tremendous pressure a lot of different.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Angles to destroy democracy. Can they there is that?
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Hey, look they're trying to get this Middle East thing
as a as a win because they need a win
of some kind. The country hates the ice deployments in
the street of America. They hate it. About twenty percent
of the voters overall like it. Those are the same
people who have the truck nuts and the and the
boat parades. The economy is on a brink of absolute
(11:14):
economic terror. The Chinese have called Trump's boff. We're back
to full trade war with a billion percent tiers on China.
One billion. He's gone, He's gone. That's on that. So
we're in a moment where the unpopularity of the immigration rates,
the unpopularity of ice on the streets of America, the
unpopularity of the trade agenda, the unpopularity of the economic agenda,
the unpopularity of the shutdown. It's all accrued to Trump.
(11:35):
And by the way, folks do not fall for the
bullshit from the Trump world or from the media that
this is hurting the Democrats. The voters don't understand that
Donald Trump controls the White House, the Congress, the Senate,
and the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Do you think they do, Yeah, I know they're seeing.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
We're sitting We're seeing in our polling and everybody else
is pulling is showing this is accruing to Trump. They
are blaming Trump for this, and he understands it at
a lizard brain level that this is not working out
the way he thought it would work out. And it's
going to continue, I think, to escalate because the economic
I mean, look, the markets are now getting very yippy,
(12:13):
ma jittery. We had a bitcoin crash over the weekend.
People are buying fucking.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Gold, Yeah, they are.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
My portfolio is gold, canned goods, and ammunition. Is a
max now becoming a rational statement.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
My long suffering Spasse I was like asking him about
gold and he was like, you know, at some point
you have problems because you don't have the gold to
back up the gold.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Yes, yeah, you don't have the gold for the gold
that the backup.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Right, So that seems like a problem. But I mean
it definitely seems like things are not good.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
No, we're in a moment I think of pretty maximalized chaos.
It is not great right now. And again you're seeing
this entire Middle East thing because the Katar bribe Trump
with a five billion dollar resort that they'll pay for
that he'll own another bribe on top of the airplane.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
I actually think the best thing we have going for
us right now and the best like I think the
Middle East thing honestly good. The Guitaris, you know, like
they may not be the best actors, but if they
get this thing to stop that Danu right right, people
say exactly good, good for them. My question for you,
(13:26):
the reason why I think the thing I think is
going to happen with the Middle East, of which I'm
not sure they understand, is that most of the elites
care about the Middle East. But I think most of
the Americans don't give a fuck.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
Americans, they literally are more worried about like changing the
tires on their car, than they are worried about the
Middle East. Right, I will say this is another unanticipated consequence.
People have not figured this out yet. Beating at in
Yahoo has survived being put He's not in prison because
he keeps going to war. He's been doing this for
almost fifteen years now, and he does not profit politically
(14:03):
by peace. So there will be a moment very soon
where he will have a new crisis and it will
be a new thing, and it will set the Middle
East sunfire again. And that is not, by the way,
for my listeners and your listeners. That is not saying,
oh Hamas is a harmless just a they're terrible fucking monsters.
(14:24):
But net and Yahoo over has faced more and more
internal pressure because he doesn't want peace. He needs a
constant state of battle and war and fear and terror.
Because there's one thing that Israeli citizens, as much as
they don't like the guy, in a lot of ways,
they're like, Okay, if shit's going really, really bad, we
(14:45):
gotta have bb in there because he's crazy. Yeah, And
that is going to be sooner than later. The internal
political pressure in Israel is going to be like, Okay,
now that we're at peace, bbe, well, you gotta go.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Get again, yeah. Will that will not be pretty and
I'm sure that will be crazy, and I'm sure that
will get Trump crazy. One of the reasons why I
think Trump's health is not good is because of the
people who are fighting to run Trump's government right now,
and you feel it bubbling under the surface. We have
jd Vance announcing things, and even jd Vance announcing that
(15:22):
Trump might go insurrection on all of our asses. That
strikes me as a sign that jadi Vance is making moves.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Jd Vance wants to be president and he believes that
right now. He's got an alliance with Stephen Miller at
the moment, so he's been out there very front and
center on a lot of the insurrection, immigration ice stuff.
If you watch him online, he's adopted very much the
edge lord ship posting style of the Jack Pisobiac wing
(15:50):
of the party. Yes, of the loudmouth wing of the party.
He's inserting himself a lot into that world because he
thinks that world, and I he's not.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Wrong, that world helps you.
Speaker 3 (16:02):
That world is a real unlock for ye twenty eight.
The other wing of the party internally, Trump himself is
a separate camp inside the White House. Now you've got
the heg Seth block you've got the Rubio wing. You
know you've got You've got a lot of these other.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Has brought everyone home, brought all the military home.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
No, the famous thing last week that I thought was
just great was Peterex is such a whiny, thirsty pitch.
He sends out a memo, d O D White, like
you must certify in writing that you have seen my video.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I love that everybody leaks. The one good thing is
that everybody you know like it's just it. And CBS
is another great example of like, if you don't like
your boss, you're gonna spend all your time just trying
to tarnish that person. Like every time Barry White does anything,
it's reported on more than anything, It gets more ratings
(16:59):
than CNA.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
As I like to think of Puck these days, it's
like the Barry Weiss Channel. Yes, every story is about
Barry Weiss or Disney, but yeah, the focus on internal
schisms in the White House is really important to understand.
You've now got Dan Scavino going over to take over
personnel from Sergio Gore. What happened to Joe is going
(17:20):
to India to be the ambassador.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So that is usually you go, you get sent far
away when the when the White House is nervous about.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Diplomatically, India is not an A posting, as they say, right,
you know, but you want your A postings. It's Court
to Saint James.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Right, it's Paris, but it's Rome. It's but those are expensive.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
They're they're expensive. Now I think has some money. I'm
not sure. I think he has some money, but I
don't know that he has. Nobody has Court to Saint
James money unless you're there.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, that's like you have to.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
You're gonna spend twenty thirty million dollars of your own
money every year entertaining people ambassador. Yeah, not cheap, but yeah,
I don't know what the internal story on that is.
But Sergio Gore had some stuff about his background, you know,
was he really born in Russia? Did he lie on
his s F eighty six's So I think they're shuffling
him off the stage.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Well, because you know, Don Junior's ex girlfriend, like it
tends to be, when the regime decides you're possibly problematic,
you get shipped off.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah. But it's interesting because they're both these different groups
in the White House are both fighting and forming new
alliances and new permutations. It is about as incestuous as
a cousin fucking convention in bumfuck Alabama. Okay, it is
a smaller and smaller circle of people who actually talk
to Trump again, unless he's calling out, what do you
think about this? Jared's made his big comeback.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Every piece of reporting on the Middle East is like
and then Jared Kushner said, and I'm like, who are
your sources? I can't can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Who could I can't imagine.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
I was listening to the Playbook podcast and they were
talking us through how it happened and.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Piece of the world. I'm going to nominate you Kushner
for a Nobel Peace Prize, just for spite.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
By the way, the fact that Donald Trump this week,
Donald Trump did not get a Nobel Peace Prize, in
spite of the fact that every country pretty much you
know what, seven countries nominated him.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yeah, you put troops in your own streets, You're probably
not getting a Nobel Peace Price.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Just let you know.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
This is a future standard for future authoritarians. Just let
you know, if you put troops in the streets, you
are probably not going to get the Nobel Peace Prize.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Incredible stuff all around, There were a couple of newspaper
articles this week. Newspapers, you'll remember those.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
I do remember those.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Media articles about how Stephen Miller is actually running the
White House. It was one in CNN.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Oh yeah, yeah, Well listen, I call him the domestic
president because Marco has a little cluster of power and
foreign policy. Heg saidre's a little cluster of power in
defense policy. But Stephen Miller is running and the Miller
Fought alliance is like this. They are inseparable, and they
both believe that at maximalist application of presidential power will
(20:04):
be protected by the Supreme Court, and that the I word,
saying it over and over again will mainstream it enough
to where and now, by the way, you do see it.
You do see it out there in the country. People
like Antifa has got an insurrection. So right, so you
know what, Miller is the most powerful force in the
White House. I have been told by two separate people
(20:26):
that know Susie Wiles that she is beside herself. She
is now a secretary. She is not the powerful chief
of staff. She is a secretary. Steven Miller goes, we're
going to do X. And if he even tells her
about it, which he frequently apparently does not. She's the
person who does the administrative backup. Miller runs the DOJ
with an iron fist. He is personally running the Lindsay
(20:48):
Halligan operation. I'm told. So Miller has had a amazing
rise to power.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
So is he the boss really of this administration right now?
Speaker 3 (20:57):
Absolutely? For everything domestic. There's little fiefdoms in foreign policy,
and Bessett has a fiefdom in Treasury Secretary Treasury Trade.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Uh, that's going great. In case, that's going great. I mean, yeah,
good job, Scott, Thank you for being the norm By
the way, remember remember Norman.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Oh yeah, Scott Besson's a normany He's a regular person. Yeah,
so is Susie Wilds. She's gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Well she was fine, but she's out and he is
whatever he is. I mean, it's hard for me to
imagine this.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
Luck holds look Miller's difficulty. And I've known this since
I I didn't we were never friends, but I knew
him when he was in the Senate as a staffer
for sessions, and knew Hi when he was in the
House and the staff for a little bit. Not not again,
we're never close. If I had ever heard anything about
Stephen Miller before the Trump earent people were like, he's
fucking nuts about immigration. He's so nuts about immigration that
(21:51):
if you go and say what should we get on
our pizza, He'll start talking about immigration. So he's really
had the moment of he got ice into our streets,
he got the troops into the streets. He's gotten most
of the law enforcement operations in the federal government now
switched over to being immigration police. I mean half the
FBI people in the field offices are now working immigration cases.
And so he's had great success with that. He's managed
(22:11):
to drive the national dialogue on that to a great degree.
But his difficulty is he's a terrible manager, he's terrible
to get along with, he's psychotic, and he has this
vision of America that is only appealing to a very,
very very small piece of the.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Government of the popastviel country. Yeah, and look, when.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
You ask people, do you want to secure the border?
Eighty percent of Americans go, yeah, sure. Do you want
to throw immigrant children onto the ground in cold Chicago
winter nights when they're zip tide? No, that's what not
what they want, And that's what Miller wants. He wants
the theater of cruelty and spectacle of harming these people
who have come here to work. And you notice something.
They've had to sort of shift from Trendiagua.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
To immigrants because there's no there's not.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Enough trendiagua out there. There's not enough MS thirteen out there.
So now they've chifted over to Antifa, which has the
benefit for them of not existing being.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Really Rick Wilson, well, can you come back absolutely. Andrew
Ross Sorkin is a financial columnist for The New York
Times and co anchor of CNBC squawk Box, and the
author of nineteen twenty nine Inside, the Greatest Crash in
Wall Street History and How It Shattered a nation. Welcome
(23:25):
Too Fast Politics, Andrew Ross Sorkin.
Speaker 4 (23:28):
Thank you for having me. It's nice to see you
like this.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It's nice to see you too. I'm excited about this book.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I'm excited about being on your show. I want you
to know. I mean, we've known each other for quite
a bit and I get to sit next to you
on TV and all the things. Yes, but this is
like a whole other operation.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
We have a lot of parallels in our lives, including
your wife, who is amazing and one of the great
people and very very smart, and also just was instrumental
in my writing of my book. So I feel like
it's very apropos that we're talking to you about your book,
because you know, you had a similar situation to me,
(24:05):
and the fact that you have something you do as
a day job. You wanted to write a book that
was a real book, that wasn't outtakes from your day job.
And that's how you got to this, right, That's.
Speaker 4 (24:16):
How I got to this. But as a result, it
took forever. Yes, this took eight years. I went into
this project thinking, Okay, maybe I'll do it in a
year or two, maybe a little longer. But this just,
you know, it swallowed my life in a good way.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
For the four people who listen to those podcasts who
don't know exactly who you are. You write about finance,
you write about markets, you write about the economy, you
write your book. I feel like you have many jobs
like I do. Right, you're part of the gig economy.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
Gig economy. So New York Times CNTAC, I see you
on MSNBC. I wrote books and make movies and TV
shows and other things.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So yes, and this book is about a financial crisis,
but not the most recent one.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
So I wrote about that crisis too in two thousand
and eight, a book called Too Big to Fail, And
I actually, in may think that this is like the
prequel to that. So this is about the most infamous
financial crisis in history in nineteen twenty nine. And the
truth is I almost did it because I didn't know
too much about it. That's what sort of led me
to want to even try to figure it out.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Give us, like the top lines about what you learned.
Speaker 4 (25:22):
The biggest top line, more than anything else, is that
this was a human drama. It was like a It
was a story about people. We oftentimes, I think, think
about the world of finance as you know, about systems
and economics and structures. But I think one of the
lessons that I've found just over my whole career is
it's never really about all those things. I mean, those
(25:43):
things come into play, but it's about human beings who
are all just like us, make good decisions and oftentimes
make bad decisions, and make decisions for all sorts of
strangeries and sometimes their petty decisions, sometimes their ego decisions,
and all sorts of things and so I was basically
trying to unearth in the archives who these people really were.
(26:07):
I'd never you know, you read a lot of things
about ninet twenty ninety, you don't really know who the
people are. What are they saying to each other, who's
sleeping with who, who's trying to screw over who? What's
going on? And that's what I really want to understand.
And once I think you could figure that out, it
really almost opens up the whole story into something that
just it feels like a drama, but also I think
(26:28):
makes it a lot more understandable.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
I mean, I personally believe that every bad thing is
a failure of regulation, but that's my own peccadillos. Is
that what it is? I mean, how do you get
to nineteen twenty nine?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
Okay? So I think it starts with the human condition,
which is the human condition. I hate to say it
is a little bit greedy, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
I'm shocked. How is that possible?
Speaker 4 (26:52):
I think that people want and they want more, and
so when you talk about regulation, yes, if the human
condition is is to want to want more, the question
is where do you put the guardrails? And the truth is,
you do need a little bit of speculation to create innovation.
I mean, I think speculation and innovation are kind of
(27:13):
like twins, right, that's enough ways, And so you don't
want to have no speculation. I mean, even if you
think of whatever you think about Elon Musk, somebody had
to speculate early and believe that there was something that
seemed completely insane to believe that it was going to work.
So you do need some speculation, but you don't want
it to get out of control. And I think what
happened in the late twenties was one of the first
(27:35):
and biggest examples of things getting totally out of control.
And it was a story about an entire generation that
really had the It was their first opportunity in reality
to gamble like this. I mean people, by the way,
prior to nineteen nineteen, people didn't take on credit or
debt to do anything. It was a moral sin in
America if you had credit or took a loan out.
(27:56):
By the mid twenties, people were taking out loans to
buy stocks. You know. Brokerages were on the corners of the
streets like they're Starbucks. It would walk in and you
could give them a dollar. They would give you ten,
you could borrow ten dollars, and as long as the
market's going up, it's all free money to you.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
So that's the same as two thousand and eight.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
That's the same as two thousand and eight. I would
argue to some extent, that's the same.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
A little bit as right now.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Well, what's going on with artificial intelligence right now? Just
this remarkable boom that's taking place, which also is being,
you know, backed by a lot of leverage. I don't
want to say we're there yet, but I think we're
in the early stages, and so I think we need
to be mindful of just, you know, how far this goes.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
It seems like it's going to go far. I mean,
it's hard for me to imagine that there's not, from
what I understand, quite a lot of deregulation going on
right now in a lot of different sectors.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
In a lot of different sectors, and specifically by the
way of the stock market. I mean, one of the
things that's happening literally right now is the Trump administration
is making things that were never available to the public available.
So you know, we never allowed people, the public, if
you will, to invest in private companies typically there was
something called an accredited investor rule. You had to have
a million dollars to invest in a startup company, because
(29:08):
the view is we didn't want people to use their
hard earned money and risk it and lose it and
their charlatans and fraud. In private companies, public companies have
to disclose information and do all sorts of regulatory audits.
We are now about to put private company investments, venture capital,
private equity, what's called private credit crypto inside of your
retirement fund, inside your four to one K. I mean,
(29:29):
this is a total revolution in finance, and it's happening
in front of us. But President just announced his plan
to reduce the number of times a year. Typically companies
have to declare their earnings four times a year and
provide audited financials, answer questions from investors, journalists and analysts
and the like, and he says, maybe we should do
(29:49):
that twice a year, so less transparency. So all of
that is happening against the backdrop of this other new
AI boom, and it's those kind of things that make
me anxious.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
But the general feeling right now is that the market
feels that the rate cuts that are coming will be
enough to create a rally despite those, right, I mean
that's the general feeling.
Speaker 4 (30:12):
I mean, I think part of it is this rate
cut piece, and part of it is, you know, a
generational investment piece of buying into the future. And this
is exactly what was happening, By the way, in nineteen
twenty nine, there was a huge debate going on in
nineteen twenty and literally about should they lower interest rates?
Should they raise interest rates? If they raise interest rates,
are they going to slow down the economy if they
(30:33):
lower interest rates? Is it just going to make it
more and more speculative? How independence the Fed? Actually, these
are questions that were happening then. And by the way,
if Nvidia is the meme stock of today, you know,
there was something called RCA which was radio in twenty nine,
and everybody was betting that that was the future. By
(30:54):
the way, they were right, it was the future, but
it didn't matter. Well, it didn't matter in that the
stock when it point if you were betting on this,
I think it was up at five hundred and thirty
six dollars a share, and by nineteen thirty two it
was three dollars a share. Now radio persisted, right, RCAA
actually still did exist, it's not that it went out
of business. And it's similar to the dot com bubble.
There were a lot of businesses that started in the
(31:15):
dot com bubble. The Internet is here, Amazon is still here,
but there's a lot of other companies that fell by
the wayside along the way.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
And it's also all about timing right, Like you could
have bought a credit default swap for the two thousand
and eight crash, but if you bought it six months
too early, you wouldn't have been able to afford to
keep it right.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Well, that's the thing about every bubble. People always say,
are we in a bubble? And I say, of course,
we're in a bubble. What I just can't tell you
is is the bubble going to pop tomorrow? Is going
to pop in five or six years. And if you
bet that it's going to pop tomorrow when it doesn't
pop for five or six years, that's a bad bet.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yeah, which is pretty insane. I want you to talk
about the dollar, because this here has actually been a
really bad year for the dollar.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Well, that's an interesting issue in the context of sort
of where you think the the US economy is, and
not just the economy, but the country. I mean, this
goes to the politics of what's happening in the country,
the belief in the dollar long term. Other way, this
is sort of gets that, you know why they're not
just crypto bros, but folks around the world now that
are interested in bitcoin and other things. Frankly has alternatives
(32:19):
to the dollar. We've always talked about, you know, will
there be an alternative to the dollar at some point?
Is enough for the rest of the world going and
not believe in the dollar the way they have, right,
And that's a real question. Now the world is also relative, right,
It's not exactly like everybody is going to you know,
be cashing in their dollars for euros or for r
(32:39):
and b's and China. I mean, like it's just.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Not know, a lot of people are going to gold.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
I mean, there are people who are investing in gold,
and that's I think very similar to the sort of
bitcoin game, to the extent that people think that bitcoin
is some kind of digital goal.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Right though, wouldn't you be I mean just real talk,
wouldn't you feel much more comfortable with gold than bitcoin.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
It's interesting because both of them are almost like religion.
Speaker 1 (33:00):
Right, No, Well, that is for sure, no, but.
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Both of them are sort of a belief system. The
older generation believes in physical gold, the younger generation believes
in what they think is digital gold. Is one better
than the other, I don't know, because neither produce anything.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Right, true, Laarren Buffett.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
We always say I prefer to own a farm because
if I work my farm, it can actually produce eggs,
It could produce we could reduce stuff in the ground,
and I could get something for it. Bitcoin is not
that bitcoin. It's not a Ponzi scheme, but you have
to believe that's gonna be worth more tomorrow than it is.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Today, right And there are people who think it's a
Ponzi scheme, though I'm not one of them. One of
the many things that I like about you is that
you make me think I feel like you're like my
husband in this way. That there are good capitalists, that
there are people who both want to make money and
not be evil. Right now, we have not seen a
ton of that. We have seen the people who have
(33:58):
been loudest in this country right now tend to be
the ones who are going along to get along. Celebrating
Trump is a I haven't seen a ton of the
good guys out there.
Speaker 4 (34:10):
So here's the thing. And I think about this, and
maybe you'll think I'm being too sympathetic or empathetic or something.
I think right now, no matter who you are, whether
you are the best guy in the world or best
woman in the world, or you think you're a complete
sickophant to whoever's in power, I think it's very hard
to stand up and raise your hand and say I
(34:34):
don't like what's happening here. This is crazy to truly
speak out. I wish people did, but I think, really,
you know, the prevailing view is you look at some
of the people running the companies in America today, the
billionaire class. You say, they're the ones if anybody can
stand up, they're the ones who should be able to
stand up. And the truth is that I'm not sure
that money is either emotional armor or frankly legal armor.
(34:58):
And I think a lot of people look take Bill Gates,
for example, I actually think that Bill Gates, who obviously
started Microsoft and is giving extraordinary amounts of money away,
has not been as vocal as you might want to
think he should be. Potentially, I don't know around these issues,
but the truth is, I think that he thinks he
could be a target, an actual target, a personal target,
and I think we're seeing it, you know, whether it's
(35:20):
George Soros or Reed Hoffman now potentially being targeted. Comy
is an example of it. Whether you put the colleges
or the law firms, or what happened with CBS in paramount,
or you know, go down the list. And so I
think that I don't want to say it's a lot
to ask these folks to raise their hand, but I
think there's a trade off. And the question is if
you raise your hand today, what happens to you and
(35:41):
what do you get for it? So, if you raise
your hand today's stee what's going on in Washington is
not shouldn't be happening, you clearly are going to get
the anger and a truth social post at minimum. At maximum,
you could have your taxes pulled and something bad happened
to your company, and all sorts of things happen. Now
on the upside, what would you actually in this moment,
given that Congress and Senate and the White House are
(36:04):
controlled by republic, what would you actually get for raising
your hand and doing it in this actual moment? And
so I think that that's a little bit of the
gamble here. It's like if I raise my hand, now,
what do I get for it? Maybe if the Dems
get the House in the midterms, does that change the dynamic.
Maybe if enough people, if enough crazy things happen and
then people band together and raise my hand, that that
(36:26):
is different. So I think that that's a little bit
of the calculus. I'm not saying it's the right calculus,
but I think that's the conversation.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
So you think there are people on the sidelines who
are waiting for the moment when they can be like, look,
this is not who we are.
Speaker 4 (36:41):
I think there's a lot of people who, deep down
in their heart know that there are problems and real threats.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I'm thinking about the pair of military staff.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
Yeahh no, No, I think there are people who think
that some of this is crazy, No question. There are
people who think this is crazy, and I think they're
trying to figure out, how could I have an impact?
And if I could have an impact, if I could
have a good impact, I'd do it. But if I
have no impact and also have the chance of being slaughtered, right,
maybe I won't do it. The one thing that's scary
about all of this is I do think there are
(37:13):
some people sort of running America today that you've noticed,
are now sort of in the club.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
Right.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
You get close to the White House, you get close
to the present, you're in the system, and I think
even people who came in skeptically, they start to believe.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Right. Scott Beson is a good example.
Speaker 4 (37:29):
You believe, you know, even if you come I wasn't
Eve talking about Scott Besson. I was saying, they're CEOs,
twoere Democrats who clearly appear like they have switched. And
I think some have switched for convenience. But I think
in the process of switching for convenience, if you will,
some start to believe it because you're around it all
the time. And that's an interesting dynamic as to what
(37:49):
happens later with those folks.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
There's a lot of craziness. I do think it is
a little bit interesting. Like there's a specific hedge fund
manager who is a Republican owner who's been really vocally
calling out Trump about certain things. I've been very impressed
with that.
Speaker 4 (38:06):
Are you referring to Ken Griffin?
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Yeah, No, I think has actually been fascinating. He's the
only one forget of being a Republican. He's the only
person I can sort of single out and identify who's
been out there saying there are things that this president's
doing that he doesn't agree with.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
And by the way, undermining the FED that is something
ninety nine point nine nine nine percent of people think
is bad. I mean, does anyone think that's going to
be good for the economy?
Speaker 4 (38:32):
No, nobody, nobody.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
It's not like a controversial issue he's calling him out on.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
That should be an easy one. And maybe, by the way,
you could argue it's easier for Ken to say these
things because this is an easy one.
Speaker 1 (38:43):
Right, But I also think part of it is that
is brave, Like I mean, it may not seem like
it because he's in that club, but it kind of is.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
Yeah. No, I look, I give an enormous amount of
credit he's been out there on that. He's been out
there on this issue about the disclosures of information that
public companies should have. He's been one of the few
who hasn't you know, totally fallen in line.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
The tariffs are going to the Supreme Court and they're
going to be a real I mean, we're basically having
a Koch brother and Leonard Leo versus the Trump administration,
and the Supreme Court is going to decide. I mean,
do you have any thoughts on this? Like it feels
like the showdown to end all showdowns.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
So I think it's an important showdown, But I don't
know if it's the showdown to end all showdowns, because
even if the tariffs as currently constructed are slapped down
by this court, there are other mechanisms with which this
administration can use to effectively implement tariffs that look very similar,
(39:47):
maybe not exactly, And maybe he's going to have to
do it at fifteen month increments and have to keep
putting them in place, and maybe those will go to
have legal challenges as well. But it's not so clear
to me that because the Supreme Court says, if they
were to say these tariffs or illegal, that this is
the end of the tariff story.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, super interesting, very cool to get to talk to you.
Thank you, Andrew, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
No moment.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
With Wilson, Lovely jog Fast. I'm subjecting you to my
moment of frockrated.
Speaker 3 (40:22):
I I'm here for you.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
So it's a lot of people who are up in
arms about fairy Wise taking over CBS, except for the
people who are very excited because she represents their worldview.
I have a hot take that I'd like you and
I to chat about for a minute, which is that
Bary Wise is actually about to engage with the glass
(40:44):
cliff to end all glass cliffs.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
Oh yeah, explain, CBS is a venerable and honorable institution
over eighty years now. It is also like a lot
of media operations targeting a bunch of boomers who will
be dead soon. When you're media and audience seventy five
years old, that means half of them are older. It's insane.
That's not a market you can sustain unless you're selling
depends and adult supplements. So I think she may shock
(41:10):
some of her people who look at her and think, oh,
she's a winger. She's on our side. I think Barry
Weiss may be more iconoclastic than either the left or
the right things in this equation. I hope so, because
I think that would actually be good for the network.
You know, you take that story brand and those great
deep resources they have, and if your leadership is let's
go like make big news and cover big stories, I
(41:32):
don't know. I think you've got an opportunity there. The
death knell would be if the corporate dickheads go, Okay,
soften it up, more news magazine things, that shit is dead.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
You're overly optimistic. I actually think this is just another
woman being put in an impossible spot to fire people
and get blamed.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
She may the thing that goes with that long standing,
storied bureaucracy or institution is a bureaucracy and a culture.
And even if that culture needs to change, all cultures
resist change. So I am not a Barry Weiss fanboy,
and I'm not a Berry Weiss panicker. I think she's
very smart. And look, she built free Press into something
(42:11):
meaningful in three and a half years, built a really
big brand that sold for one hundred fucking million dollars.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
That ain't nothing wow anyway, But agreed.
Speaker 3 (42:20):
If she fails, well they go. Women can't run media networks.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Yeah they will.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Yeah, Rick Wilson, I hope you'll come back as always,
see you next time.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best
minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If
you enjoy this podcast, Please send it to a friend
and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com