August 18, 2025 • 45 mins
The Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson examines Trump’s authoritarian takeover of the nation’s capital.
Journalist Jean Guerrero details her book Hatemonger: Stephen Miller, Donald Trump, and the White Nationalist Agenda.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds, and vegetable prices rose by almost forty
percent last month, the largest spike since inflation took off
in twenty twenty two. We have such a great show
(00:21):
for you today. The Lincoln Projects own Rick Wilson joins
us to talk about Trump's authoritarian takeover of our nation's capital.
Then we'll talk to journalist Jean Guerrero about her book
Hate Manger, Steven Miller, Donald Trump, and the white nationalist agenda.
But first, here are some of the most important news
(00:42):
stories we've been following.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So mally great news for friends of the show. Media Matters.
A judge's done the right thing and gotten in and
bock the FTCs demands against them.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
We're in extra legal, some might say illegal territory where
the government, the federal government, is trying to punish media
matters and it's not okay. So a federal judge granted
a preliminary injunction to halt the Federal Trade Commissions Civil
investigative demand against Media Matters, finding that the FTC likely
(01:18):
engaged in retaliatory conduct violating the First Amendment. You'll remember,
the First Amendment is the amendment that Republicans pretended to
love and to be free speech absolutists. Well, it'll be
shocked to know that they are hypocrites. The judge ruled
that the FTC's demands would deter reporting, and that media
matters had shown they had sort of followed what they
(01:41):
were supposed to do. The judge noted that the FTC chair,
who was basically brought into that job because Trump thought
he would do what he wanted him to do, Andrew
Ferguson had previously called for investigating groups criticizing online disinformation.
One of those few bits of good news. So enjoy it, folk,
because there's plenty bad stuff to counterbound.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So, speaking of that, there's three states that are led
by Republicans that are going to deploy the National Guard
to DC because we need to harass more drunk students
from American University.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, okay, So this is like Trump has these Republicans
who are scared of him and think he's the only
way to win an election, and so they want him
to love them. And so West Virginia, South Carolina, and
Ohio are all sending National Guard troops to Washington, d C.
There they will all sit around and look at their
(02:39):
phones or terrorize, you know, anyone who doesn't look. I mean,
I think that's a pretty good assessment, right.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Let me tell you my fantasy here, and you've got
to bear with me because at first it's going.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
To sound a little wacky.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Sure, now you know how like those porn sites love
to show which people look at porn and Republican states
to show what bigger they are.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I want Candy.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Crush to publish how much higher the scores are going
in DC.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
They're candy crushing head.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Real call back to seasoned Blood there.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
They're candy crushing it. That's right, baby.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So Mali, I don't know if you've noticed, but in
my parts it seems like COVID is everywhere.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Now we have data to back that up.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, if you don't test, I've been told by Donald J.
Trump that if you don't test, the numbers go down.
We're going to see in real time if that works out.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Do I recall? You just slow it down and then
it goes away.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I'm pretty sure it will be rocking and rolling by Easter.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
I think, Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, this is all
sounding very familiar.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah from season one. Once in a lifetime pandemic, let's
not make it twice a little bit worrying.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
So, in other bleak news, Oklahoma, which just seemed to
be a testing ground for really stupid education policy lately,
is going to require teachers from New York and California
to prove that they back America.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
First.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yes, you need too that you're not woke. The Party
of Free Speech and Free Ideas wants to have teachers
test if they come to Oklahoma to teach. By the way,
here's a true story. Oklahoma has a lower so the
New York and California of higher state taxes, which means
there's more money for education. Oklahoma has a lower state tax.
(04:22):
How many teachers do you think are going from New
York and California to Oklahoma?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
At ten twenty. I mean, it's not going to be
a huge group because there's literally no reason to. I
think this is one of these things that Maga governor's
cook up as a way to own the Libs. But
you know, like with so many things in MAGA, it's
a laws that affect no one tend to be pretty
you know, fighting illegal, fighting crime that doesn't exist. They're
(04:51):
very good at stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Performative moronics. I believe you called.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yes, performative moronics.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So here's my question for you, though, So marg Rychilla
Green this weekend decided that she's over America first and
needs to be America only because she's tired of Israel.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Do you think that do.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You think that they Do you think that that they
require the teachers to be America oldly?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Or do you think they stick with the America first.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I had no idea that she had turned on.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Israel, but oh yeah, oh yeah, that's weeks old.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Like she she?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I mean I knew she was like not she Yeah,
she had thought that was bad?
Speaker 5 (05:27):
But which was?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
So? I mean, we have really ended up in somewhere
weird here.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Wellcome TG Woke MTG.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
The Wokeiest. Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln
Project and the host of the Enemy's List. Oh we're
on Oh no, I hope we're not regarding Welcome to
Fast Politics.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Rick Wilson, Hey, Mai junk Fast. You did great on
Bill Maher.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Thank you. I come back victorious from my forty two
hours in California. Let's talk about the military state that
is the District of Columbia. The videos I have seen,
I'm not laughing because it's authoritarianism, but I'm telling you
the videos I have seen from that are I don't
(06:17):
do not think democrats who cannot get their shit together
could make better ads. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
That you are exactly correct. They they are being given
every day in Washington, DC, a golden gift of the
authoritarian cosplay bullshit that these guys are executing on and
I mean it, they're making traffic stops. They're not as
you and I talked about, as you pointed out points,
this is not in the in the seething in the
(06:46):
seething like crime ridden city. This is in Georgetown and
du Pop Circle and Foggy Bottom.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And you're the fourth season.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Right, yeah, yeah, the desperate criminality that defines the M
Street corridor.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Right right, A forty dollars hamburger is not a crime crime,
that's right, No, I mean it is. To watch it
is incredible. Saw a woman who videos ice ray It's
getting beaten and being left at being They had to
call an ambulance for her what I am so struck
(07:20):
by and I think we want you know, it's both
a very dark time in American life because a lot
of the institutions we hoped would protect us, like billionaires,
those guys turn out to suck. In case you're wondering, Yeah,
pretty much, Yeah, they suck. And people who own television
companies also buy.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
And Jeff Bezos, who has become sort of the the
house mouthpiece now they're like they've become like a gentry
version of Breitbart for DC.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, and that crew has not been great, but we
have seen some amazing things. And I want to talk
about the Hogi guy.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yes, the hero American needs pink big pusshirt check in
the hoies.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Used to work at the DOJ. Yep, Chuck's a Hogi
at a you know, is he ice? Who even knows
what this?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's polities.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I was because he's wearing a mask and a whatever
and no id. Right, well why would he Chuck's a
hogy at him? He's now being tried for felony, right
because Judge Box of Wine does not like it when
people throw food, you.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Know, And I go back once again. There there were
there have been two terrorist attacks in d C in
our lifetime of any one was on nine to eleven,
and one was on January sixth. Where was all this
concern for state and federal and local police on January sixth,
it didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Well, they were police and not whatever.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
This is right, but this idea that DC's so out
of control, crime is down in DC, it's all. But
it's all costplay. It's all Trump showmanship bullshit. And you know,
we've got to you've got to realize as a people
that nothing that's going on in DC right now is
(09:08):
with all these deployments, is real, except for he wants
to put cops at you know, put the DC cops
under his control and on Pambondi's control. He wants to
put these troops in the street, not because there's crime
in DC, but because every reporter in DC lives in
the neighborhoods where he's putting the cops or putting these forces.
So they'll report on it, they'll see it, they'll be
(09:30):
worried about it, they'll freak out about it. They'll talk
about how Trump's being an authoritarian madman, which he is, but
he knows this is this is like a symbolically powerful
gesture on his part for the media's brain in d C.
I think I'm hot garbage. But there you go.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You want my hottest take fire away. I think that
this is just like trump World's war on anti Semitism, right,
it's a thing to control something thing else. So he
says he's punishing Columbia for being anti Semitic. He's publishing punishing.
He doesn't give a fuck about anti Semitism. He's punishing
(10:08):
Columbia because weirdo whatever or whatever for whatever reason, because
they because he knows that attacking education is part of
the playbook. And you know, it's sort of the Victor
Orbon school of its oratorianism. I mean, that's what this
is about. This is not this is never about what
they say it's about. And I think, yeah, And one
(10:29):
of the things go on. One of the things Rick
Wilson said to me before I went on, when we
were talking on the phone before I went on, Bill
Maher and you were giving me a little advice, was
you said this thing which I totally stole, of course
as well I should have, which is that no one
is pro crime. There is no pro crime caucus.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Right, There's yeah, there's no murder coalition in this country. Right,
there's no let's have the streets run where red with
blood movement in this country. And sometimes the Democrats have
gotten themselves tripped up in the shit where the right
has been able to demonize it or whatever. But I
think it's a lot harder in DC because if you
travel to DC, if you go to the city of Washington,
(11:10):
d C. There is about a ten square block area
in one part of the city that's really dangerous. The
rest of it is a very expensive place. You know,
it's a city where on U Street, you can pay
forty dollars, as you said, for a hamburger, or twenty
five dollars for a fucking smoothie, or one hundred dollars
for a pilates class. It's not exactly mogudd shoe. So
(11:30):
it is trying to put the Democrats in a dumb frame.
But the correct frame is to keep saying, A, this
is bullshit, and B you're just trying to distract from Epstein.
Where's the fucking file Donald?
Speaker 6 (11:39):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Right, Well, it is a real question the Epstein and
this is something we talked about AMR. But it's also
something that I'm curious about Epstein has so Pam Bondi says,
I have the file on my desk right right, she
who knows what that was? I mean, there are thousands
of pages of paper. It could be anything.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Tens of thousands. Yeah, crazy, But why.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Play it up if you are then gonna like, do
you think he just was playing it up because he
was not paying at what do you think the thinking
there was?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
They recognize that the Epstein files, let's not even call
it files of the corpus of all this Epstein stuff
that the dog had. I think Trump legitimately forgot a
lot of that stuff from the nineties and two thousands, right, Like,
he doesn't really remember what's in it. He doesn't really
know what's in it, right. And so when they put
(12:36):
a thousand FBI agents looking through those files and they
found his name, and they started finding his name popping
up over and over and over, they had a breakdown.
They had to kind of freak out. And I think
that freakout is still going on. I think so much
of the shit we've been seeing the desperate summit yesterday
or this weekend.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
In a good not by the way, the fact that
like it was like we're gonna have a summit to
bring peace to Ukraine, because that's what everyone cares about,
because I'm going to win the Nobel Peace Bride.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
The idea of Trump when anything but the Darwin Award
at this point is just like the tale of ludicrous.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Talk this through with me. I mean, so everyone, so
now they went to Alaska. Putin was like, fuck you,
basically right, We're not like He's not like.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
He could have like roll out that carpet for me, bitch,
and then I'm gonna tell you to fuck yourself.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I mean he could have like said, well, we'll do
a ceasefire and then ignored it, which is typical would
be very on brand for Putin, right, But instead he
was like, no, we're not even going to do a ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Like discuss Putin, it thinks in one hundred year interval
timing versus Trump thinking in next news cycle timing. Putin
wants to reassemble the old Soviet Empire as Greater Russia.
He went to Shafi, Ukraine and Eastern Europe. Trump wants,
as you said, to get a Nobel Peace Prize. Trump
(13:56):
wants to get to tomorrow without having to look at
thetein stuff. And unfortunately for him, the Epstein stuff has
become such a dominant theme and such a dominant motivator
for all his political behavior that he made this desperate,
hurry up kind of rush up to Alaska to meet
Putin to pretend he was going to negotiate with this guy.
(14:18):
And Putin absolutely just rang his frickin' He just walked
all over him. And you could even see it in
Trump when we walked back to the plane, the schlump
we get off the plane. Looks like he has dog
has died. He's been off truth social for the most
of the weekend. It was a disaster. There's no spinning
and it's unspinnable. You can't spin this thing and go yeah,
(14:40):
this has some real upsides for Donald.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So what do you think, I what do you think
happened in that? Because they were alone in the car,
right and with a translator or not with I think
no trans speaks.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
English, Putin speaks English. English is fine.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So he's in the car, are there together? Then they
get out and I think what I think is so
interesting is everyone is trying to is trying to keep
them from being alone together. Right, you got Marco, you
got right. Everyone's like let's just try lateral right right,
(15:19):
And he's like, no, I'll just be alone with Putin,
And so they get in the car talk us through.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
They get in the Beast, the President's limousine. God knows
what was said in the Beast. God knows, right, Donald,
you're here, Donald Fdorvitch, you're here for quarterly performance review. Yeah,
God knows what Trump said in the car, But when
they got into the subject of meetings, it was obvious
that they said he had like to accomplish at these
(15:44):
minimal things. I don't think they were pushing him all
that hard, and his response was basically, now go fuck yourself. Yeah,
And when he gets out into the I found this fascinating,
big breach of diplomatic protocol. The host nation president speaks first,
so let's Putin go first. Putin talks about ten to
one to what Trump says in that press conference, and
(16:07):
Putin goes out and just says, we have to address
the historical claims about Ukraine, which is his cooking for
why want Ukraine. I'm going to eat all of it.
And it's just it's just and look, you saw the
clownish response today. And we're recording this on Sunday. You
saw a clown's response on Sunday from Mark or Rubio,
(16:29):
who on face the nation is there obviously just wants
to die inside.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
He looks like he's so.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Because he can't explain what Trump wants. He can't violate
what Trump said to putin because Trump wants to get
this as the predicate for a Nobel Peace Prize, which
is never coming. I don't he could buy Norway and
it's still not going to come.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You'd have to buy all the Norwegians.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
You'd have to buy everybody involved in everything about out
about Norway, you know. And they're delicious, you know, pickled.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Fishes, babyickle fish fishs. So yeah, it strikes me that
there is no world in which this doesn't So, I mean,
I think the most likely scenario here, and you I know,
we never want to predict the future, but since it's Trump,
things can only go sort of one of two ways.
(17:25):
I think the most likely scenario here is that they
have another meeting. All these Europeans are coming to try
to keep him from screaming. You know, literally all the
Europeans are coming here. The heads of all these European
countries are coming to the United States to try to
protect Zelensky from Trump.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Correct, and look the last time and right now you've
seen the White House has been reduced because all these
European leaders are coming. They're now saying if he doesn't
wear a suit, he can't come in the White House.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Is that what they say?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, they're saying that this afternoon. So where the so
if he'll wear a suit? And ridiculous, Yeah, ridiculous. But
that's how little Trump has. Now, this is how little
they got out of that summit. They're back to trying
to please the online social media Twitter maga crowd. Right, well,
we made him wear a suit. That's a real concession.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I'm telling you those polling let's do a minute on
the polling. Sure, I you know, we haven't seen a
ton of polls, and you know, but clearly these the
polls that I'm seeing. Everyone who voted for him because
he made a bunch of sneakers and did some UFC fights,
Like maybe not all those people are gone, but he's
(18:39):
certainly there. He's hemorrhaging them quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Oh Molly, listen, my son, who is a very smart pollster.
We're talking about this on Friday, and he's been going
through all these demographics that that after the election, MAGA said,
and and a lot of the national media, let's be fair,
a lot of the manstory media said, well, Trump now
has won young voters and they're Republicans. Now he's one
Hispanic voters, they're Republicans. Now, he's one young African American man.
(19:04):
They're Republicans. Know they're not. They're fleeing from Trump. His
approval ratings among young African Americans now at Ape Bin
Laden has higher approval numbers. I mean, he really he
has managed to collapse. Another big area of this, a
lot of rural agriculture voters are now seeing the impact
of losing all their workers and they're bailing on him.
(19:27):
He's losing, Maga, parts of the coalition, not just the
people that voted for him in twenty twenty four, He's
losing parts of his base now as well, like what
looks like those rural voters. A lot of those rural
ag voters are realizing, oh shit, Donald Trump has killed
our workforce and now are coster skyrocketing. He's losing the
suburban mommy vote now because they are on the front
(19:49):
lines of managing households they're the ones who are standing
in line at Walmart are targeting, going the fuck is
this when they get a receipt? You know this chain
of mistakes he's made. Yeah, it's adding up and adding
up and adding up. And that chain of mistakes is
increasingly Even though the Democratic Party's brand sucks, the intention
(20:14):
to vote for Democrats now is growing. We're seeing it grow.
If I may quote a certain famous quote, at levels
no one's seen before. And nothing he's doing is reversing
this trend right now. Could Democrats blow it, sure, they
have an infinite capacity to fuck it up. But right now,
Donald Trump is losing his newfound gains, and those gains
(20:38):
in part where a lot of the people that they
expected would be part of a permanent coalition going forward
and they're just not. They've chosen not to remain.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So I want you to talk for it about the redistricting.
What's happening in Texas. So August nineteenth is my birthday,
Yes it is, and it is awesome the day I
see Rick writing it down. No, I'm just kidding. So
it is also the day that that the special session,
(21:09):
the first, the most the first special session ends, right,
So and then Democrats.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
That's all that they passed all that flood relief.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Oh, they have passed that. And they, by the way,
they don't need a special session to pass flood belief.
In case you're wondering, Ken Paxson, Greg Abbott, full of shit,
full of show try exactly so Abbott wants says he
will will that now just immediately call another session. We
(21:38):
are seeing some anxiety from members of the House that
if these districts get redrawn, people like Mike Lawler, Niko Lolota,
all you know, these Republicans, at least the Phonic is
now going to.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Run for governor of New York, right, which which is
going to put a lot of people in a tough
spot because Kathy hoak is well, a lot of people
are not very sympathetic to Kathy Hockel. But if it's
at least Dephonic versus Kathy hockol but it's.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
A no brainer, right, I think that'll be a good
But so let's talk about the redistrict. What are the vibes.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
The vibes are very simple. You've got Gavin News, You've
got Pritzker, you've got Hokeel and now you're starting to
get a couple of other Democratic governors putting their noses out.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Can we have a minute on Gavin Newsome because I
want you to talk about this. His social media has
become you know, yes, okay, so Gavin.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
News now your god too.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
She is now tweeting really mean stuff about everything.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
In the language in case of Trump in.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
All caps, right, in all caps.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
His team is top of the pile.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
But it's interesting to me for two seconds here because
Cuomo is also doing that, and it's creepy as half.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Right with Cuomo, like like trying to like call call
a mom dummy's son and sports and show it just
comes across as like weird, really weird.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Right, Look, I mean, but Newsom is killing it.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
You've got to do if you're going to do this
transgressive stuff, Yeah, you've got to do it in a
way like New York Magazine profile one of my ads
last weekend about the Trump not like us had we
did and they were a little freaked out about it.
But it's like, oh my god, this is actually how
you do transgression. He's doing the transgression right, He's doing
it in a way that psychologically will affect the bad guys.
(23:24):
He's doing it in a way that breaks the rules
for a good reason, not just breaking the rules like
Trump breaks the rules just to burn everything down. They're
breaking the rules to show people there are ways that
you have to fight in this modern era. We don't
live in the old world where things are settled on
the debate stage or with policy papers. Live in a
world where you better be great at social media if
(23:47):
you're going to run for present.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
And Newsome has and in that regard, I'm announcing.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
And Newsome is deeply disliked by a lot of sure progressives,
but he has very good hair, and his social media
is really good.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
And you know what else, you know what else you knows.
I'm not a fanboy, but you know what else he's doing.
He's fighting.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, he went.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I did a press conference on Friday, and he said
to me Thursday, he said to Texas, if you do this,
we're about to take more than you're going to add.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Do you think, by the way, do you think that
works on Texas?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
No, it doesn't psychologically change abb at all. Abbott wants
to run for president. If he doesn't do what Trump wants,
Trump will say we Greg Abbott couldn't stand up through
me right. Yeah, Yes, that joke was as bad as
you thought, everybody, because what Trump would fucking do?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I like that he I like that you did it.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
In Trump's voice?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
W Bush?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
No, that was w Molly. That wasn't. Now come on,
come on, Molly, you.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Know better, Rick Wilson, Will you come back absolutely. Jean
Guerrero is an opinion writer for The New York Times
and the author of Pete Manger, Stephen Miller, Donald Trump,
and the White Nationalist Agenda. Hi Jean, Welcome to Fast Politics.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Hi Mollie, good to be here.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Let's start with Stephen Miller and talking about this book
he wrote in some ways, it's a big idea book.
So explain to us your big idea.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
Yeah, so, I mean the book is called hate Monger
because Stephen Miller is kind of the ideologue and the
intellectual architect behind Trump's immigration policies, and particularly the most restrictionists,
the most cruel, the most performatively sadistic of the policies,
(25:30):
which are those that focus not on people who are
committing crimes or who are seasoned gang members in any way,
but rather finding ways to strangle legal immigration into this
country and going after mom's dads like we're seeing right
now in streets across America.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Explain, he grew up in Santa Monica. He comes from
a family that feels a lot like mine, sort of liberal,
Jewish normal.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
What happened exactly, descendant of refugees and and Santa Monica
is largely seen as.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
Kind of a liberal city.
Speaker 6 (26:03):
But he went to this diverse public high school called
Santa Monica High School, and there, or just before arriving there,
is when he started to show signs of radicalization. He
had a best friend in middle school, Jason Eastless, who
is Latino, and he broke up with him right before
high school, started telling him that he didn't want to
(26:25):
be friends anymore because of his Latino heritage, and he
listed a number of other attributes related to Jason's insecurities,
and that was kind of one of the first signs.
Stephen used to complain about his Latina nanny and housekeeper
driving him to school in what he described as her
(26:46):
junkie car because he felt that it made him look poor,
and so he was very status conscious. And all of
this coincided with his family experiencing some financial difficulties related
to the real estate business of his father, and they
lost quite a bit of money and they had to
move from a very nice five bedroom house in the
(27:08):
nicest part of Santa Monica to a more diverse area
of Santa Monica in a smaller house. All of this
is when he starts going to this very diverse public
high school, where you see him begin to antagonize his
Latino classmates and going to school board meetings to rail
against multiculturalism, to complain about the school's celebration of the
Adelos Muertos or Cinco and Mayo.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
He didn't like.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
These multicultural holiday celebrations, he felt it was inappropriate, and
really just singled in on attacking any form of multicultural
or support for his classmates of color.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
So what really is a story about somebody blaming a
group for their problems?
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Exactly? Yeah, I think you know.
Speaker 6 (27:54):
Just based on my reporting talking to his friends when
he was a teenager, his classmates, it seems that this
extreme hostility to immigration and to multiculturalism was a way
for Stephen Miller to find a sense of purpose and
power at a time in his life when he felt
that he didn't have that, or that he didn't have
as much as he would like, and it also coincided
(28:18):
with him meeting two media personalities who had a huge
impact on his life and on his career. One of
them was David Horowitz, a former Marxist turned conservative activist.
He basically spent the nineties and early two thousands grooming
a new generation of young conservatives to use the tactics
(28:42):
of the civil rights movement against the gains of the
civil rights movement. So anyone who is against racism, suddenly
they're the racist. If you're fighting oppression, then you are
an oppressor and the only victim in this ideology, the
only valid victim is the white male conservative. So Stephen
(29:04):
Miller adopted these ideas, was taken under the wing of
David Horowitz as well as Larry Elder, who is a
right wing is a right wing.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Talk show host who's black, who is black.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
And is on Fox Too.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
He had written a book at the time called The
Ten Things You Can't Say in America where he argues
that black people are more racist than white people and
kind of you know, caters his messaging towards white audiences
and helping them to feel legitimate.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
In their racist biases.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
He often quoted this white supremacist named Jared Taylor who
publishes all kinds of discredited race pseudo science that frames
white people as superior.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I just want to add one thing about this, which
is Andreas and Horowoodz the Sun ends up becoming a
major venture capitalist starts Andreas and Horrowoods becomes in that
world of sort of these fair right wing tech pros,
donates money to Trump, then moves to Las Vegas and
(30:06):
lives in like a gated community and doesn't has become
very removed from the normal world exactly.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
I mean Horowitz and the movement that he has played
a huge role in shaping. They like to portray themselves
as allies of the working classes and immigration as something
that they're fighting on behalf of you know, legacy Americans.
But when you look at the associations that they have,
the families that they come from, it's very clear that
(30:36):
these are we're talking about the elites of the elites
and some of the wealthiest individuals aligned with the Silicon Valley.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, we were always told that wealthy people were the
myth of Soorrows or whatever, and then in fact this
crew is very committed to keeping the status quo reversing
progressive tax a in some ways, these tariffs are really
like a flat tax on working people exactly. Okay, So
(31:09):
then he goes and works for Jeff Sessions, Right, talk
us through sort of what happens next.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Well, first, just to the point that you were making.
Speaker 6 (31:16):
It's really reflected in this speech that Stephen Miller gave
in high school where he was early on expressing a
very hierarchical view of society, where it kind of went
viral afterwards, where he's saying, like, why should I have
to clean up my trash? Oh, I remember this when
we have janitors who are paid to do it for us,
(31:36):
And the way that he said that it was very
offensive to a lot of the students in the audience
whose parents were custodians who related to these janitors. And
I see it as a very early sign of his
willingness to use inflammatory rhetoric for attention, and also just
this hierarchical view where it's like, this is your place
in society to clean up my trash, and I don't
(31:59):
have to associated with you, and I don't have to
do any of that for myself. But yeah, So then
he goes on to Duke University. At this point, he
was already building somewhat of a national profile because of
his appearances on the Larry Elder Show, where he would
call in to complain about his high school what he
would call left wing in doctrination and how they weren't
reciting the Pledge of Allegiance as often as he wanted.
(32:20):
And he also was publishing op eds for David Horowitz's website,
And when he gets to Duke University, he uses this
argument of intellectual diversity to get a column for the
campus newspaper, which he similarly used to again frame white
male conservatives that's kind of the only valid victims in society,
(32:41):
and to make all kinds of inflammatory arguments and argue,
for example, that racism is a fantasy of our imaginations.
And he also was leading this thing called the Terrorism
Awareness Project for David Horowitz, which essentially was dedicated to
to maligning Palestinian and anyone who was in support of
(33:05):
Palestine or the Palestine Solidarity movement as terrorists as aligned
with Hamas early on at Duke University, it wasn't just
specific to immigration that he was focused on, but also
anti Palestinian activism right and from there David Horwitz, who.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
I interviewed for the book and who shared a bunch.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
Of emails between himself and Stephen Miller over the years,
he told me that he was pretty concerned that Steven
Miller wasn't going to get a job out of college
because of his reputation, well because he thought that he
was going to be discriminated against for his views. So
he put him in touch with a number of his
(33:45):
connections in Congress ultimately got him a job with Jeff Sessions,
where he worked in comms. That's where he really became
kind of single mindedly focused on the immigration issue and
derailing bipartisan immigration reform, painting anyone who is willing to
compromise on this issue as being an elite who just
(34:07):
wants cheap labor in this country.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
And it was an argument that became.
Speaker 6 (34:11):
Really quite persuasive to a lot of people in the
conservative movement and ended up moving the Republican Party in
an extremely nativist direction at a time when it was
actually considering the opposite. So there was a dinner that
Steven Miller, Jeff Sessions, and Steve Bannon had in twenty
twelve when the Republican Party was they published an autopsy
(34:31):
report of the elections where they were saying, you know,
we need to move in a much more inclusive direction.
We need to be more pro immigrant, we need to
reach out to Hispanic voters. And Steven Miller, Steve Bannon,
and Jeff Sessions had a dinner where they reviewed this
analysis by Sean Trendy about the quote unquote missing white voter,
and they decided that they wanted to move the party
(34:53):
in the opposite direction, where they would be doubling down
on courting white rage and white fear, using the immigrat
issue to rally people around what ultimately became the Trump campaign.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
That is so completely crazy. So is that how it happens?
Speaker 6 (35:12):
Yeah, So Steven Miller reaches out to the campaign. He
tells Corey Lewandowski that he wants to talk about immigration
at every chance that he gets. And finally Corey returns
his calls and Steven starts working for the campaign, both
shaping Trump's speeches and his policies around immigration. And when
it comes to the speeches, one of the hallmark things
with Stephen Miller was the demonization of immigrants, using these gory,
(35:38):
visceral anecdotes of Americans being killed or assaulted by immigrants,
to create the false impression that immigrants are more likely
to commit crimes than US citizens, even though research has
shown that the opposite is true.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
But it really proved.
Speaker 6 (35:56):
Effective in creating this sphere and this hate around immigrants
and the notion that immigrants are an existential threat to
this country that need to be controlled by any means necessary.
And ultimately that's why during the first administration, they did
not focus on illegal immigration. They focused on dismantling the
(36:18):
refugee system. They focused on dismantling the asylum, the legal
asylum system into this country, and they focused on family separations,
so separating children from asylum seeking parents, often who were
presenting out ports of entry legally to seek asylum, as
is their right under federal and international law, but they
(36:38):
were separating them as a form of deterrence. So China
and still fear in immigrants abroad who don't want to
face that kind of trauma of being separated from a
child that.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Is so incredibly insane. So what was the thinking there.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
Well, So the thinking was that the more cruel and
even performatively cruel that they could be, the more that
they could decrease immigration through deterrence, so that it wouldn't
have to be about physically removing every individual, but getting
people to stop coming here and ultimately even to self
deport out of fear or anxiety. Because the ultimate goal
(37:19):
of the Miller project, when you look at the influences
that have gone into his policy making, it's not law
and order. It's not about ensuring that we have law
and order. It's about re engineering the racial demographics of
this country to ensure that we have a white majority.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Right. Is it racism for racism's sake or is it
racism for political winnings sake?
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Well, I think Stephen Miller is a true believer.
Speaker 6 (37:52):
This movement is extremely diverse, and there's people who want
to crack down on immigration, not to actually increase immigration,
but to maintain a permanent underclass of exploitable labor. What
Stephen Miller has been able to do is convince people
that the opposite is true.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
That if you are.
Speaker 6 (38:12):
Pro immigrant, if you believe in immigrant rights, if you
believe in a pathway to citizenship or any form of legalization,
then you are an elite who wants cheap.
Speaker 5 (38:22):
Labor in this country.
Speaker 6 (38:23):
But the reality is that when you do not allow
people who've been here for years and decades, contributing to
the society, buying homes, working, having kids, if you don't
allow them to have a pathway to legalization, then you
are ensuring that you.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
Have a permanent underclass. I think he's a contradiction.
Speaker 6 (38:43):
He's somebody whose family and who himself has benefited from
that inequality that is created by having that underclass. But
he's also somebody who, by expressing his extremely racist and
vitriolic viewpoints and turning them into policy, has found a
sense of power and purpose. So I think he is
(39:03):
a true believer. Everything in my reporting shows that he
actually thinks that he is quote unquote saving America by
unleashing the worst crackdown in the United States history on
immigrant communities.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I mean, is there any sense in which they see
that we need these people for the economy, or that
they have any sort of normal sense of why immigration
is good or now?
Speaker 5 (39:32):
I don't think Stephen Miller does at all. I think I.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Think he's somebody who when you listen to his words
and read his writing and particularly his private correspondence, it's
so clear how deeply influenced he has been by white
supremacist literature that actually sees immigrants as a mortal threat
to this country. One of those books is The Camp
(39:55):
of the Saints, which it's a French dystopian novel by
genre spy who Stephen Miller. During the Chump campaign advised
Breitbart to do an article comparing the book's plot to
what's happening at the US Mexico border.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
But the book.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
Essentially portrays the destruction of the white world by a
horde of brown refugees who are described in overtly racist,
animalistic terms. But the worst villains of that book actually
are not the refugees. It's actually the allies, the liberal
people in the white world who welcome them with open
(40:31):
arms and who choose compassion for the stranger.
Speaker 5 (40:34):
Those are the worst villains according to that book.
Speaker 6 (40:37):
And I think that aligns with Stephen Miller's views, which
are extremely hostile to immigrants, but equally or more so
towards anyone who believes that we should integrate them into
our society and that we should be inclusive in our
culture and in our politics.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, it is just like the most insane kind of
world live in. So can you explain to us like,
from what you've learned about this, what you think the
right thing for people who care about the world and
this kind of thing should be doing. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
So I wrote a piece in The New York Times
recently about the videos that people have been recording of
the arrests, the ice rates, and arrests in their neighborhoods.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Oh, yeah, that was a great piece I read that.
Speaker 6 (41:29):
I think these are some of the most powerful ways
for people to resist, which is to show who the
Trump administration is actually targeting with their immigration operations, because
a recent survey showed that most Americans, not even does
most conservatives, but most Americans believe that Trump is targeting
(41:50):
or prioritizing serious criminals. And so the more that you're
able to show that the people that he's that they're
going after are actually valued community members, people who are
trying to put food on the table for their children,
people who are beloved by liberals and conservatives alike, who
are being snatched off of the streets in front of
their homes, in front of their crying children. The more
(42:11):
you show that, the more you're destabilizing the narrative, the
false narrative of the Trump administration of Stephen Miller that
what they are doing is making this country safer and stronger,
because in reality, what you see is they are terrorizing
families and communities, and they are creating a public safety
crisis for people of color, particularly Latinos, who are being
(42:36):
racially profiled across the United States, because these agents are
leaping out of unmarked vehicles and taking people. And oftentimes
people are afraid to resist or to intervene when they
see something like this because they could be charged with
impeding an officer. But I mean oftentimes the neighbors don't
(42:57):
actually know, like is this ice or is this a kidnapper?
And so I really the feeling in our community, especially
in Los Angeles, it's this sense of a public safety crisis,
like the administration is making a mixedtatus communities and communities
of color more vulnerable to extortion, kidnapping, assaults, human trafficking,
all kinds of things because of the way that immigration
(43:20):
agents are behaving, which is in this vigilante style that
is meant to create fear, and that is very effective
at creating fear.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Geane. This is so your piece. Everyone should read your
piece in the New York Times about how these people
have created these ice watchdogs. It's really a great piece
and you've done such good work and really appreciate you
coming on the pod to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
Thank you. I really appreciate you having me a moment.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Rick Wilson, poly drunk fast.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
It's that time.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Is it that time again? The moment that time? My
moment of fuckery this week is are There are a
lot of big things, but this is one of those
smaller irritating people. Folks. Let's all getting the way back
machine to Kim Davis, the county clerk back in Ascrack,
Kentucky stand or wherever the fuck she's from, who refused,
(44:18):
who refuse to issue marriage licenses for gay people? And
she is the root cause of another one of these
long march Republican strategies, not even necessarily Republican, more like
Christian nationalist strategies to undo gay marriage. And the Obert
refereral case, which legalized gay marriage in this country is
now under challenge from her and a bunch of these
(44:39):
other idiots. And you can see Clarence Thomas and Alito
are salivating to kill gay marriage. The Christian right folks
are salivated to kill gay marriage. And this is all
coming from a woman who is on her soon to
be on her fourth marriage. So I just want to
say to Kim Davis, I'm so glad you believe the
institution of marriage. Why don't you let her somebody else
(45:00):
that lived their own fucking lives and do it themselves.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
As someone whose mother was on her fourth marriage, so ask.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
But your mom had no problem with people getting married,
that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
No, she did not. All right, good job. That's it
for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,
and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make
sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
(45:33):
Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds, and vegetable prices rose by almost forty
percent last month, the largest spike since inflation took off
in twenty twenty two. We have such a great show
(00:21):
for you today. The Lincoln Projects own Rick Wilson joins
us to talk about Trump's authoritarian takeover of our nation's capital.
Then we'll talk to journalist Jean Guerrero about her book
Hate Manger, Steven Miller, Donald Trump, and the white nationalist agenda.
But first, here are some of the most important news
(00:42):
stories we've been following.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So mally great news for friends of the show. Media Matters.
A judge's done the right thing and gotten in and
bock the FTCs demands against them.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
We're in extra legal, some might say illegal territory where
the government, the federal government, is trying to punish media
matters and it's not okay. So a federal judge granted
a preliminary injunction to halt the Federal Trade Commissions Civil
investigative demand against Media Matters, finding that the FTC likely
(01:18):
engaged in retaliatory conduct violating the First Amendment. You'll remember,
the First Amendment is the amendment that Republicans pretended to
love and to be free speech absolutists. Well, it'll be
shocked to know that they are hypocrites. The judge ruled
that the FTC's demands would deter reporting, and that media
matters had shown they had sort of followed what they
(01:41):
were supposed to do. The judge noted that the FTC chair,
who was basically brought into that job because Trump thought
he would do what he wanted him to do, Andrew
Ferguson had previously called for investigating groups criticizing online disinformation.
One of those few bits of good news. So enjoy it, folk,
because there's plenty bad stuff to counterbound.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So, speaking of that, there's three states that are led
by Republicans that are going to deploy the National Guard
to DC because we need to harass more drunk students
from American University.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yeah, okay, So this is like Trump has these Republicans
who are scared of him and think he's the only
way to win an election, and so they want him
to love them. And so West Virginia, South Carolina, and
Ohio are all sending National Guard troops to Washington, d C.
There they will all sit around and look at their
(02:39):
phones or terrorize, you know, anyone who doesn't look. I mean,
I think that's a pretty good assessment, right.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
It's true.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Let me tell you my fantasy here, and you've got
to bear with me because at first it's going.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
To sound a little wacky.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Sure, now you know how like those porn sites love
to show which people look at porn and Republican states
to show what bigger they are.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
I want Candy.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Crush to publish how much higher the scores are going
in DC.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
They're candy crushing head.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Real call back to seasoned Blood there.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
They're candy crushing it. That's right, baby.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
So Mali, I don't know if you've noticed, but in
my parts it seems like COVID is everywhere.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Now we have data to back that up.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, if you don't test, I've been told by Donald J.
Trump that if you don't test, the numbers go down.
We're going to see in real time if that works out.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Do I recall? You just slow it down and then
it goes away.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
I'm pretty sure it will be rocking and rolling by Easter.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
I think, Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes, this is all
sounding very familiar.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah from season one. Once in a lifetime pandemic, let's
not make it twice a little bit worrying.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
So, in other bleak news, Oklahoma, which just seemed to
be a testing ground for really stupid education policy lately,
is going to require teachers from New York and California
to prove that they back America.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
First.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yes, you need too that you're not woke. The Party
of Free Speech and Free Ideas wants to have teachers
test if they come to Oklahoma to teach. By the way,
here's a true story. Oklahoma has a lower so the
New York and California of higher state taxes, which means
there's more money for education. Oklahoma has a lower state tax.
(04:22):
How many teachers do you think are going from New
York and California to Oklahoma?
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
At ten twenty. I mean, it's not going to be
a huge group because there's literally no reason to. I
think this is one of these things that Maga governor's
cook up as a way to own the Libs. But
you know, like with so many things in MAGA, it's
a laws that affect no one tend to be pretty
you know, fighting illegal, fighting crime that doesn't exist. They're
(04:51):
very good at stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Performative moronics. I believe you called.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Yes, performative moronics.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
So here's my question for you, though, So marg Rychilla
Green this weekend decided that she's over America first and
needs to be America only because she's tired of Israel.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Do you think that do.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You think that they Do you think that that they
require the teachers to be America oldly?
Speaker 4 (05:14):
Or do you think they stick with the America first.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I had no idea that she had turned on.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Israel, but oh yeah, oh yeah, that's weeks old.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Like she she?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I mean I knew she was like not she Yeah,
she had thought that was bad?
Speaker 5 (05:27):
But which was?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
So? I mean, we have really ended up in somewhere
weird here.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
Wellcome TG Woke MTG.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
The Wokeiest. Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln
Project and the host of the Enemy's List. Oh we're
on Oh no, I hope we're not regarding Welcome to
Fast Politics.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Rick Wilson, Hey, Mai junk Fast. You did great on
Bill Maher.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Thank you. I come back victorious from my forty two
hours in California. Let's talk about the military state that
is the District of Columbia. The videos I have seen,
I'm not laughing because it's authoritarianism, but I'm telling you
the videos I have seen from that are I don't
(06:17):
do not think democrats who cannot get their shit together
could make better ads. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
That you are exactly correct. They they are being given
every day in Washington, DC, a golden gift of the
authoritarian cosplay bullshit that these guys are executing on and
I mean it, they're making traffic stops. They're not as
you and I talked about, as you pointed out points,
this is not in the in the seething in the
(06:46):
seething like crime ridden city. This is in Georgetown and
du Pop Circle and Foggy Bottom.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
And you're the fourth season.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Right, yeah, yeah, the desperate criminality that defines the M
Street corridor.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Right right, A forty dollars hamburger is not a crime crime,
that's right, No, I mean it is. To watch it
is incredible. Saw a woman who videos ice ray It's
getting beaten and being left at being They had to
call an ambulance for her what I am so struck
(07:20):
by and I think we want you know, it's both
a very dark time in American life because a lot
of the institutions we hoped would protect us, like billionaires,
those guys turn out to suck. In case you're wondering, Yeah,
pretty much, Yeah, they suck. And people who own television
companies also buy.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
And Jeff Bezos, who has become sort of the the
house mouthpiece now they're like they've become like a gentry
version of Breitbart for DC.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, and that crew has not been great, but we
have seen some amazing things. And I want to talk
about the Hogi guy.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
Yes, the hero American needs pink big pusshirt check in
the hoies.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Used to work at the DOJ. Yep, Chuck's a Hogi
at a you know, is he ice? Who even knows
what this?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
It's polities.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
I was because he's wearing a mask and a whatever
and no id. Right, well why would he Chuck's a
hogy at him? He's now being tried for felony, right
because Judge Box of Wine does not like it when
people throw food, you.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Know, And I go back once again. There there were
there have been two terrorist attacks in d C in
our lifetime of any one was on nine to eleven,
and one was on January sixth. Where was all this
concern for state and federal and local police on January sixth,
it didn't exist.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Well, they were police and not whatever.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
This is right, but this idea that DC's so out
of control, crime is down in DC, it's all. But
it's all costplay. It's all Trump showmanship bullshit. And you know,
we've got to you've got to realize as a people
that nothing that's going on in DC right now is
(09:08):
with all these deployments, is real, except for he wants
to put cops at you know, put the DC cops
under his control and on Pambondi's control. He wants to
put these troops in the street, not because there's crime
in DC, but because every reporter in DC lives in
the neighborhoods where he's putting the cops or putting these forces.
So they'll report on it, they'll see it, they'll be
(09:30):
worried about it, they'll freak out about it. They'll talk
about how Trump's being an authoritarian madman, which he is, but
he knows this is this is like a symbolically powerful
gesture on his part for the media's brain in d C.
I think I'm hot garbage. But there you go.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
You want my hottest take fire away. I think that
this is just like trump World's war on anti Semitism, right,
it's a thing to control something thing else. So he
says he's punishing Columbia for being anti Semitic. He's publishing punishing.
He doesn't give a fuck about anti Semitism. He's punishing
(10:08):
Columbia because weirdo whatever or whatever for whatever reason, because
they because he knows that attacking education is part of
the playbook. And you know, it's sort of the Victor
Orbon school of its oratorianism. I mean, that's what this
is about. This is not this is never about what
they say it's about. And I think, yeah, And one
(10:29):
of the things go on. One of the things Rick
Wilson said to me before I went on, when we
were talking on the phone before I went on, Bill
Maher and you were giving me a little advice, was
you said this thing which I totally stole, of course
as well I should have, which is that no one
is pro crime. There is no pro crime caucus.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Right, There's yeah, there's no murder coalition in this country. Right,
there's no let's have the streets run where red with
blood movement in this country. And sometimes the Democrats have
gotten themselves tripped up in the shit where the right
has been able to demonize it or whatever. But I
think it's a lot harder in DC because if you
travel to DC, if you go to the city of Washington,
(11:10):
d C. There is about a ten square block area
in one part of the city that's really dangerous. The
rest of it is a very expensive place. You know,
it's a city where on U Street, you can pay
forty dollars, as you said, for a hamburger, or twenty
five dollars for a fucking smoothie, or one hundred dollars
for a pilates class. It's not exactly mogudd shoe. So
(11:30):
it is trying to put the Democrats in a dumb frame.
But the correct frame is to keep saying, A, this
is bullshit, and B you're just trying to distract from Epstein.
Where's the fucking file Donald?
Speaker 6 (11:39):
Right?
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Right, Well, it is a real question the Epstein and
this is something we talked about AMR. But it's also
something that I'm curious about Epstein has so Pam Bondi says,
I have the file on my desk right right, she
who knows what that was? I mean, there are thousands
of pages of paper. It could be anything.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Tens of thousands. Yeah, crazy, But why.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Play it up if you are then gonna like, do
you think he just was playing it up because he
was not paying at what do you think the thinking
there was?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
They recognize that the Epstein files, let's not even call
it files of the corpus of all this Epstein stuff
that the dog had. I think Trump legitimately forgot a
lot of that stuff from the nineties and two thousands, right, Like,
he doesn't really remember what's in it. He doesn't really
know what's in it, right. And so when they put
(12:36):
a thousand FBI agents looking through those files and they
found his name, and they started finding his name popping
up over and over and over, they had a breakdown.
They had to kind of freak out. And I think
that freakout is still going on. I think so much
of the shit we've been seeing the desperate summit yesterday
or this weekend.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
In a good not by the way, the fact that
like it was like we're gonna have a summit to
bring peace to Ukraine, because that's what everyone cares about,
because I'm going to win the Nobel Peace Bride.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
The idea of Trump when anything but the Darwin Award
at this point is just like the tale of ludicrous.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Talk this through with me. I mean, so everyone, so
now they went to Alaska. Putin was like, fuck you,
basically right, We're not like He's not like.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
He could have like roll out that carpet for me, bitch,
and then I'm gonna tell you to fuck yourself.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I mean he could have like said, well, we'll do
a ceasefire and then ignored it, which is typical would
be very on brand for Putin, right, But instead he
was like, no, we're not even going to do a ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
Like discuss Putin, it thinks in one hundred year interval
timing versus Trump thinking in next news cycle timing. Putin
wants to reassemble the old Soviet Empire as Greater Russia.
He went to Shafi, Ukraine and Eastern Europe. Trump wants,
as you said, to get a Nobel Peace Prize. Trump
(13:56):
wants to get to tomorrow without having to look at
thetein stuff. And unfortunately for him, the Epstein stuff has
become such a dominant theme and such a dominant motivator
for all his political behavior that he made this desperate,
hurry up kind of rush up to Alaska to meet
Putin to pretend he was going to negotiate with this guy.
(14:18):
And Putin absolutely just rang his frickin' He just walked
all over him. And you could even see it in
Trump when we walked back to the plane, the schlump
we get off the plane. Looks like he has dog
has died. He's been off truth social for the most
of the weekend. It was a disaster. There's no spinning
and it's unspinnable. You can't spin this thing and go yeah,
(14:40):
this has some real upsides for Donald.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So what do you think, I what do you think
happened in that? Because they were alone in the car,
right and with a translator or not with I think
no trans speaks.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
English, Putin speaks English. English is fine.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
So he's in the car, are there together? Then they
get out and I think what I think is so
interesting is everyone is trying to is trying to keep
them from being alone together. Right, you got Marco, you
got right. Everyone's like let's just try lateral right right,
(15:19):
And he's like, no, I'll just be alone with Putin,
And so they get in the car talk us through.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
They get in the Beast, the President's limousine. God knows
what was said in the Beast. God knows, right, Donald,
you're here, Donald Fdorvitch, you're here for quarterly performance review. Yeah,
God knows what Trump said in the car, But when
they got into the subject of meetings, it was obvious
that they said he had like to accomplish at these
(15:44):
minimal things. I don't think they were pushing him all
that hard, and his response was basically, now go fuck yourself. Yeah,
And when he gets out into the I found this fascinating,
big breach of diplomatic protocol. The host nation president speaks first,
so let's Putin go first. Putin talks about ten to
one to what Trump says in that press conference, and
(16:07):
Putin goes out and just says, we have to address
the historical claims about Ukraine, which is his cooking for
why want Ukraine. I'm going to eat all of it.
And it's just it's just and look, you saw the
clownish response today. And we're recording this on Sunday. You
saw a clown's response on Sunday from Mark or Rubio,
(16:29):
who on face the nation is there obviously just wants
to die inside.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
He looks like he's so.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Because he can't explain what Trump wants. He can't violate
what Trump said to putin because Trump wants to get
this as the predicate for a Nobel Peace Prize, which
is never coming. I don't he could buy Norway and
it's still not going to come.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
You'd have to buy all the Norwegians.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
You'd have to buy everybody involved in everything about out
about Norway, you know. And they're delicious, you know, pickled.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
Fishes, babyickle fish fishs. So yeah, it strikes me that
there is no world in which this doesn't So, I mean,
I think the most likely scenario here, and you I know,
we never want to predict the future, but since it's Trump,
things can only go sort of one of two ways.
(17:25):
I think the most likely scenario here is that they
have another meeting. All these Europeans are coming to try
to keep him from screaming. You know, literally all the
Europeans are coming here. The heads of all these European
countries are coming to the United States to try to
protect Zelensky from Trump.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
Correct, and look the last time and right now you've
seen the White House has been reduced because all these
European leaders are coming. They're now saying if he doesn't
wear a suit, he can't come in the White House.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Is that what they say?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, they're saying that this afternoon. So where the so
if he'll wear a suit? And ridiculous, Yeah, ridiculous. But
that's how little Trump has. Now, this is how little
they got out of that summit. They're back to trying
to please the online social media Twitter maga crowd. Right, well,
we made him wear a suit. That's a real concession.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
I'm telling you those polling let's do a minute on
the polling. Sure, I you know, we haven't seen a
ton of polls, and you know, but clearly these the
polls that I'm seeing. Everyone who voted for him because
he made a bunch of sneakers and did some UFC fights,
Like maybe not all those people are gone, but he's
(18:39):
certainly there. He's hemorrhaging them quickly.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Oh Molly, listen, my son, who is a very smart pollster.
We're talking about this on Friday, and he's been going
through all these demographics that that after the election, MAGA said,
and and a lot of the national media, let's be fair,
a lot of the manstory media said, well, Trump now
has won young voters and they're Republicans. Now he's one
Hispanic voters, they're Republicans. Now, he's one young African American man.
(19:04):
They're Republicans. Know they're not. They're fleeing from Trump. His
approval ratings among young African Americans now at Ape Bin
Laden has higher approval numbers. I mean, he really he
has managed to collapse. Another big area of this, a
lot of rural agriculture voters are now seeing the impact
of losing all their workers and they're bailing on him.
(19:27):
He's losing, Maga, parts of the coalition, not just the
people that voted for him in twenty twenty four, He's
losing parts of his base now as well, like what
looks like those rural voters. A lot of those rural
ag voters are realizing, oh shit, Donald Trump has killed
our workforce and now are coster skyrocketing. He's losing the
suburban mommy vote now because they are on the front
(19:49):
lines of managing households they're the ones who are standing
in line at Walmart are targeting, going the fuck is
this when they get a receipt? You know this chain
of mistakes he's made. Yeah, it's adding up and adding
up and adding up. And that chain of mistakes is
increasingly Even though the Democratic Party's brand sucks, the intention
(20:14):
to vote for Democrats now is growing. We're seeing it grow.
If I may quote a certain famous quote, at levels
no one's seen before. And nothing he's doing is reversing
this trend right now. Could Democrats blow it, sure, they
have an infinite capacity to fuck it up. But right now,
Donald Trump is losing his newfound gains, and those gains
(20:38):
in part where a lot of the people that they
expected would be part of a permanent coalition going forward
and they're just not. They've chosen not to remain.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
So I want you to talk for it about the redistricting.
What's happening in Texas. So August nineteenth is my birthday,
Yes it is, and it is awesome the day I
see Rick writing it down. No, I'm just kidding. So
it is also the day that that the special session,
(21:09):
the first, the most the first special session ends, right,
So and then Democrats.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
That's all that they passed all that flood relief.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Oh, they have passed that. And they, by the way,
they don't need a special session to pass flood belief.
In case you're wondering, Ken Paxson, Greg Abbott, full of shit,
full of show try exactly so Abbott wants says he
will will that now just immediately call another session. We
(21:38):
are seeing some anxiety from members of the House that
if these districts get redrawn, people like Mike Lawler, Niko Lolota,
all you know, these Republicans, at least the Phonic is
now going to.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Run for governor of New York, right, which which is
going to put a lot of people in a tough
spot because Kathy hoak is well, a lot of people
are not very sympathetic to Kathy Hockel. But if it's
at least Dephonic versus Kathy hockol but it's.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
A no brainer, right, I think that'll be a good
But so let's talk about the redistrict. What are the vibes.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
The vibes are very simple. You've got Gavin News, You've
got Pritzker, you've got Hokeel and now you're starting to
get a couple of other Democratic governors putting their noses out.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Can we have a minute on Gavin Newsome because I
want you to talk about this. His social media has
become you know, yes, okay, so Gavin.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
News now your god too.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
She is now tweeting really mean stuff about everything.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
In the language in case of Trump in.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
All caps, right, in all caps.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
His team is top of the pile.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
But it's interesting to me for two seconds here because
Cuomo is also doing that, and it's creepy as half.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Right with Cuomo, like like trying to like call call
a mom dummy's son and sports and show it just
comes across as like weird, really weird.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Right, Look, I mean, but Newsom is killing it.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
You've got to do if you're going to do this
transgressive stuff, Yeah, you've got to do it in a
way like New York Magazine profile one of my ads
last weekend about the Trump not like us had we
did and they were a little freaked out about it.
But it's like, oh my god, this is actually how
you do transgression. He's doing the transgression right, He's doing
it in a way that psychologically will affect the bad guys.
(23:24):
He's doing it in a way that breaks the rules
for a good reason, not just breaking the rules like
Trump breaks the rules just to burn everything down. They're
breaking the rules to show people there are ways that
you have to fight in this modern era. We don't
live in the old world where things are settled on
the debate stage or with policy papers. Live in a
world where you better be great at social media if
(23:47):
you're going to run for present.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
And Newsome has and in that regard, I'm announcing.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
And Newsome is deeply disliked by a lot of sure progressives,
but he has very good hair, and his social media
is really good.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
And you know what else, you know what else you knows.
I'm not a fanboy, but you know what else he's doing.
He's fighting.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
Yeah, he went.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I did a press conference on Friday, and he said
to me Thursday, he said to Texas, if you do this,
we're about to take more than you're going to add.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
Do you think, by the way, do you think that
works on Texas?
Speaker 3 (24:20):
No, it doesn't psychologically change abb at all. Abbott wants
to run for president. If he doesn't do what Trump wants,
Trump will say we Greg Abbott couldn't stand up through
me right. Yeah, Yes, that joke was as bad as
you thought, everybody, because what Trump would fucking do?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I like that he I like that you did it.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
In Trump's voice?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
W Bush?
Speaker 3 (24:40):
No, that was w Molly. That wasn't. Now come on,
come on, Molly, you.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Know better, Rick Wilson, Will you come back absolutely. Jean
Guerrero is an opinion writer for The New York Times
and the author of Pete Manger, Stephen Miller, Donald Trump,
and the White Nationalist Agenda. Hi Jean, Welcome to Fast Politics.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
Hi Mollie, good to be here.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Let's start with Stephen Miller and talking about this book
he wrote in some ways, it's a big idea book.
So explain to us your big idea.
Speaker 6 (25:10):
Yeah, so, I mean the book is called hate Monger
because Stephen Miller is kind of the ideologue and the
intellectual architect behind Trump's immigration policies, and particularly the most restrictionists,
the most cruel, the most performatively sadistic of the policies,
(25:30):
which are those that focus not on people who are
committing crimes or who are seasoned gang members in any way,
but rather finding ways to strangle legal immigration into this
country and going after mom's dads like we're seeing right
now in streets across America.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Explain, he grew up in Santa Monica. He comes from
a family that feels a lot like mine, sort of liberal,
Jewish normal.
Speaker 6 (25:55):
What happened exactly, descendant of refugees and and Santa Monica
is largely seen as.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
Kind of a liberal city.
Speaker 6 (26:03):
But he went to this diverse public high school called
Santa Monica High School, and there, or just before arriving there,
is when he started to show signs of radicalization. He
had a best friend in middle school, Jason Eastless, who
is Latino, and he broke up with him right before
high school, started telling him that he didn't want to
(26:25):
be friends anymore because of his Latino heritage, and he
listed a number of other attributes related to Jason's insecurities,
and that was kind of one of the first signs.
Stephen used to complain about his Latina nanny and housekeeper
driving him to school in what he described as her
(26:46):
junkie car because he felt that it made him look poor,
and so he was very status conscious. And all of
this coincided with his family experiencing some financial difficulties related
to the real estate business of his father, and they
lost quite a bit of money and they had to
move from a very nice five bedroom house in the
(27:08):
nicest part of Santa Monica to a more diverse area
of Santa Monica in a smaller house. All of this
is when he starts going to this very diverse public
high school, where you see him begin to antagonize his
Latino classmates and going to school board meetings to rail
against multiculturalism, to complain about the school's celebration of the
Adelos Muertos or Cinco and Mayo.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
He didn't like.
Speaker 6 (27:30):
These multicultural holiday celebrations, he felt it was inappropriate, and
really just singled in on attacking any form of multicultural
or support for his classmates of color.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
So what really is a story about somebody blaming a
group for their problems?
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Exactly? Yeah, I think you know.
Speaker 6 (27:54):
Just based on my reporting talking to his friends when
he was a teenager, his classmates, it seems that this
extreme hostility to immigration and to multiculturalism was a way
for Stephen Miller to find a sense of purpose and
power at a time in his life when he felt
that he didn't have that, or that he didn't have
as much as he would like, and it also coincided
(28:18):
with him meeting two media personalities who had a huge
impact on his life and on his career. One of
them was David Horowitz, a former Marxist turned conservative activist.
He basically spent the nineties and early two thousands grooming
a new generation of young conservatives to use the tactics
(28:42):
of the civil rights movement against the gains of the
civil rights movement. So anyone who is against racism, suddenly
they're the racist. If you're fighting oppression, then you are
an oppressor and the only victim in this ideology, the
only valid victim is the white male conservative. So Stephen
(29:04):
Miller adopted these ideas, was taken under the wing of
David Horowitz as well as Larry Elder, who is a
right wing is a right wing.
Speaker 5 (29:11):
Talk show host who's black, who is black.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
And is on Fox Too.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Yes.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
He had written a book at the time called The
Ten Things You Can't Say in America where he argues
that black people are more racist than white people and
kind of you know, caters his messaging towards white audiences
and helping them to feel legitimate.
Speaker 5 (29:32):
In their racist biases.
Speaker 6 (29:33):
He often quoted this white supremacist named Jared Taylor who
publishes all kinds of discredited race pseudo science that frames
white people as superior.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I just want to add one thing about this, which
is Andreas and Horowoodz the Sun ends up becoming a
major venture capitalist starts Andreas and Horrowoods becomes in that
world of sort of these fair right wing tech pros,
donates money to Trump, then moves to Las Vegas and
(30:06):
lives in like a gated community and doesn't has become
very removed from the normal world exactly.
Speaker 6 (30:15):
I mean Horowitz and the movement that he has played
a huge role in shaping. They like to portray themselves
as allies of the working classes and immigration as something
that they're fighting on behalf of you know, legacy Americans.
But when you look at the associations that they have,
the families that they come from, it's very clear that
(30:36):
these are we're talking about the elites of the elites
and some of the wealthiest individuals aligned with the Silicon Valley.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Yeah, we were always told that wealthy people were the
myth of Soorrows or whatever, and then in fact this
crew is very committed to keeping the status quo reversing
progressive tax a in some ways, these tariffs are really
like a flat tax on working people exactly. Okay, So
(31:09):
then he goes and works for Jeff Sessions, Right, talk
us through sort of what happens next.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
Well, first, just to the point that you were making.
Speaker 6 (31:16):
It's really reflected in this speech that Stephen Miller gave
in high school where he was early on expressing a
very hierarchical view of society, where it kind of went
viral afterwards, where he's saying, like, why should I have
to clean up my trash? Oh, I remember this when
we have janitors who are paid to do it for us,
(31:36):
And the way that he said that it was very
offensive to a lot of the students in the audience
whose parents were custodians who related to these janitors. And
I see it as a very early sign of his
willingness to use inflammatory rhetoric for attention, and also just
this hierarchical view where it's like, this is your place
in society to clean up my trash, and I don't
(31:59):
have to associated with you, and I don't have to
do any of that for myself. But yeah, So then
he goes on to Duke University. At this point, he
was already building somewhat of a national profile because of
his appearances on the Larry Elder Show, where he would
call in to complain about his high school what he
would call left wing in doctrination and how they weren't
reciting the Pledge of Allegiance as often as he wanted.
(32:20):
And he also was publishing op eds for David Horowitz's website,
And when he gets to Duke University, he uses this
argument of intellectual diversity to get a column for the
campus newspaper, which he similarly used to again frame white
male conservatives that's kind of the only valid victims in society,
(32:41):
and to make all kinds of inflammatory arguments and argue,
for example, that racism is a fantasy of our imaginations.
And he also was leading this thing called the Terrorism
Awareness Project for David Horowitz, which essentially was dedicated to
to maligning Palestinian and anyone who was in support of
(33:05):
Palestine or the Palestine Solidarity movement as terrorists as aligned
with Hamas early on at Duke University, it wasn't just
specific to immigration that he was focused on, but also
anti Palestinian activism right and from there David Horwitz, who.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
I interviewed for the book and who shared a bunch.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
Of emails between himself and Stephen Miller over the years,
he told me that he was pretty concerned that Steven
Miller wasn't going to get a job out of college
because of his reputation, well because he thought that he
was going to be discriminated against for his views. So
he put him in touch with a number of his
(33:45):
connections in Congress ultimately got him a job with Jeff Sessions,
where he worked in comms. That's where he really became
kind of single mindedly focused on the immigration issue and
derailing bipartisan immigration reform, painting anyone who is willing to
compromise on this issue as being an elite who just
(34:07):
wants cheap labor in this country.
Speaker 5 (34:09):
And it was an argument that became.
Speaker 6 (34:11):
Really quite persuasive to a lot of people in the
conservative movement and ended up moving the Republican Party in
an extremely nativist direction at a time when it was
actually considering the opposite. So there was a dinner that
Steven Miller, Jeff Sessions, and Steve Bannon had in twenty
twelve when the Republican Party was they published an autopsy
(34:31):
report of the elections where they were saying, you know,
we need to move in a much more inclusive direction.
We need to be more pro immigrant, we need to
reach out to Hispanic voters. And Steven Miller, Steve Bannon,
and Jeff Sessions had a dinner where they reviewed this
analysis by Sean Trendy about the quote unquote missing white voter,
and they decided that they wanted to move the party
(34:53):
in the opposite direction, where they would be doubling down
on courting white rage and white fear, using the immigrat
issue to rally people around what ultimately became the Trump campaign.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
That is so completely crazy. So is that how it happens?
Speaker 6 (35:12):
Yeah, So Steven Miller reaches out to the campaign. He
tells Corey Lewandowski that he wants to talk about immigration
at every chance that he gets. And finally Corey returns
his calls and Steven starts working for the campaign, both
shaping Trump's speeches and his policies around immigration. And when
it comes to the speeches, one of the hallmark things
with Stephen Miller was the demonization of immigrants, using these gory,
(35:38):
visceral anecdotes of Americans being killed or assaulted by immigrants,
to create the false impression that immigrants are more likely
to commit crimes than US citizens, even though research has
shown that the opposite is true.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
But it really proved.
Speaker 6 (35:56):
Effective in creating this sphere and this hate around immigrants
and the notion that immigrants are an existential threat to
this country that need to be controlled by any means necessary.
And ultimately that's why during the first administration, they did
not focus on illegal immigration. They focused on dismantling the
(36:18):
refugee system. They focused on dismantling the asylum, the legal
asylum system into this country, and they focused on family separations,
so separating children from asylum seeking parents, often who were
presenting out ports of entry legally to seek asylum, as
is their right under federal and international law, but they
(36:38):
were separating them as a form of deterrence. So China
and still fear in immigrants abroad who don't want to
face that kind of trauma of being separated from a
child that.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
Is so incredibly insane. So what was the thinking there.
Speaker 6 (36:56):
Well, So the thinking was that the more cruel and
even performatively cruel that they could be, the more that
they could decrease immigration through deterrence, so that it wouldn't
have to be about physically removing every individual, but getting
people to stop coming here and ultimately even to self
deport out of fear or anxiety. Because the ultimate goal
(37:19):
of the Miller project, when you look at the influences
that have gone into his policy making, it's not law
and order. It's not about ensuring that we have law
and order. It's about re engineering the racial demographics of
this country to ensure that we have a white majority.
Speaker 1 (37:42):
Right. Is it racism for racism's sake or is it
racism for political winnings sake?
Speaker 5 (37:49):
Well, I think Stephen Miller is a true believer.
Speaker 6 (37:52):
This movement is extremely diverse, and there's people who want
to crack down on immigration, not to actually increase immigration,
but to maintain a permanent underclass of exploitable labor. What
Stephen Miller has been able to do is convince people
that the opposite is true.
Speaker 5 (38:10):
That if you are.
Speaker 6 (38:12):
Pro immigrant, if you believe in immigrant rights, if you
believe in a pathway to citizenship or any form of legalization,
then you are an elite who wants cheap.
Speaker 5 (38:22):
Labor in this country.
Speaker 6 (38:23):
But the reality is that when you do not allow
people who've been here for years and decades, contributing to
the society, buying homes, working, having kids, if you don't
allow them to have a pathway to legalization, then you
are ensuring that you.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
Have a permanent underclass. I think he's a contradiction.
Speaker 6 (38:43):
He's somebody whose family and who himself has benefited from
that inequality that is created by having that underclass. But
he's also somebody who, by expressing his extremely racist and
vitriolic viewpoints and turning them into policy, has found a
sense of power and purpose. So I think he is
(39:03):
a true believer. Everything in my reporting shows that he
actually thinks that he is quote unquote saving America by
unleashing the worst crackdown in the United States history on
immigrant communities.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I mean, is there any sense in which they see
that we need these people for the economy, or that
they have any sort of normal sense of why immigration
is good or now?
Speaker 5 (39:32):
I don't think Stephen Miller does at all. I think I.
Speaker 6 (39:34):
Think he's somebody who when you listen to his words
and read his writing and particularly his private correspondence, it's
so clear how deeply influenced he has been by white
supremacist literature that actually sees immigrants as a mortal threat
to this country. One of those books is The Camp
(39:55):
of the Saints, which it's a French dystopian novel by
genre spy who Stephen Miller. During the Chump campaign advised
Breitbart to do an article comparing the book's plot to
what's happening at the US Mexico border.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
But the book.
Speaker 6 (40:10):
Essentially portrays the destruction of the white world by a
horde of brown refugees who are described in overtly racist,
animalistic terms. But the worst villains of that book actually
are not the refugees. It's actually the allies, the liberal
people in the white world who welcome them with open
(40:31):
arms and who choose compassion for the stranger.
Speaker 5 (40:34):
Those are the worst villains according to that book.
Speaker 6 (40:37):
And I think that aligns with Stephen Miller's views, which
are extremely hostile to immigrants, but equally or more so
towards anyone who believes that we should integrate them into
our society and that we should be inclusive in our
culture and in our politics.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, it is just like the most insane kind of
world live in. So can you explain to us like,
from what you've learned about this, what you think the
right thing for people who care about the world and
this kind of thing should be doing. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
So I wrote a piece in The New York Times
recently about the videos that people have been recording of
the arrests, the ice rates, and arrests in their neighborhoods.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Oh, yeah, that was a great piece I read that.
Speaker 6 (41:29):
I think these are some of the most powerful ways
for people to resist, which is to show who the
Trump administration is actually targeting with their immigration operations, because
a recent survey showed that most Americans, not even does
most conservatives, but most Americans believe that Trump is targeting
(41:50):
or prioritizing serious criminals. And so the more that you're
able to show that the people that he's that they're
going after are actually valued community members, people who are
trying to put food on the table for their children,
people who are beloved by liberals and conservatives alike, who
are being snatched off of the streets in front of
their homes, in front of their crying children. The more
(42:11):
you show that, the more you're destabilizing the narrative, the
false narrative of the Trump administration of Stephen Miller that
what they are doing is making this country safer and stronger,
because in reality, what you see is they are terrorizing
families and communities, and they are creating a public safety
crisis for people of color, particularly Latinos, who are being
(42:36):
racially profiled across the United States, because these agents are
leaping out of unmarked vehicles and taking people. And oftentimes
people are afraid to resist or to intervene when they
see something like this because they could be charged with
impeding an officer. But I mean oftentimes the neighbors don't
(42:57):
actually know, like is this ice or is this a kidnapper?
And so I really the feeling in our community, especially
in Los Angeles, it's this sense of a public safety crisis,
like the administration is making a mixedtatus communities and communities
of color more vulnerable to extortion, kidnapping, assaults, human trafficking,
all kinds of things because of the way that immigration
(43:20):
agents are behaving, which is in this vigilante style that
is meant to create fear, and that is very effective
at creating fear.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Geane. This is so your piece. Everyone should read your
piece in the New York Times about how these people
have created these ice watchdogs. It's really a great piece
and you've done such good work and really appreciate you
coming on the pod to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (43:46):
Thank you. I really appreciate you having me a moment.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
Rick Wilson, poly drunk fast.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
It's that time.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Is it that time again? The moment that time? My
moment of fuckery this week is are There are a
lot of big things, but this is one of those
smaller irritating people. Folks. Let's all getting the way back
machine to Kim Davis, the county clerk back in Ascrack,
Kentucky stand or wherever the fuck she's from, who refused,
(44:18):
who refuse to issue marriage licenses for gay people? And
she is the root cause of another one of these
long march Republican strategies, not even necessarily Republican, more like
Christian nationalist strategies to undo gay marriage. And the Obert
refereral case, which legalized gay marriage in this country is
now under challenge from her and a bunch of these
(44:39):
other idiots. And you can see Clarence Thomas and Alito
are salivating to kill gay marriage. The Christian right folks
are salivated to kill gay marriage. And this is all
coming from a woman who is on her soon to
be on her fourth marriage. So I just want to
say to Kim Davis, I'm so glad you believe the
institution of marriage. Why don't you let her somebody else
(45:00):
that lived their own fucking lives and do it themselves.
Speaker 1 (45:02):
As someone whose mother was on her fourth marriage, so ask.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
But your mom had no problem with people getting married,
that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
No, she did not. All right, good job. That's it
for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,
and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make
sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
(45:33):
Thanks for listening.
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
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