Rick Wilson, Katie Phang, Ali Vitali, Maya Wiley & Joyce Vance

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds and Senator Tommy Tuberville still won't lift
his military blockade even as the death toll rises in
the Middle East. We have a star studded show today
live from the Texas Tribune Fest. We have a super

(00:21):
fun forum I was part of, featuring MSNBC's Katie Fang
and Ali Batally, former New York City mayoral candidate and
the mayor of My Heart, Maya Wiley, and Sisters in
Law's host Joyce fans. But first we have the host
of the Enemy's List fan favorite and my friend the
Lincoln Projects, Rick Wilson. Welcome back to Fast Politics. Rick Wilson.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Hey, MOLLI joung Fast. How are you this afternoon?

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Well, so I've been up since three am Mountain time.
I think it's mountain time, so that's ten thousand hours.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yes, and I rarely, I rarely sleep late, but I
was in bent till nine am this morning. It's a
beautiful fall Sunday day here in Florida. It got cool
and breezy, and I think the technical term for what
we've done all day today is a fuck all.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Nothing well. Our own lives may be okay, the state
of the world seems just absolutely beyond the pale. Everything
is just so incredibly fucked up.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
In the last two days, Yeah, and look, I mean,
the Hamas terrorist attacks on Israel have really emphasized two
things in my mind, my usual snark in joking aside.
For a second, we had a rules based international order
for seventy years that worked, and when Trump took office,
he abandoned that. And while Joe Biden is president now,

(01:45):
the Republicans that are in the Trump Party have continued
to behave as if Trump is still president, and they've
abandoned it again. As much as they pay lip service
to Israel. The first thing they're doing at a moment
where there are American dead murder by Hamas and hostages
taken by Hamas, what are the Republicans doing. They're trying
to blame Joe Biden for some imaginary like, oh, we

(02:06):
paid for it tax dollars, American tax dollars.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
It paints it's a travesing dollars.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
And just to emphasize once again for the audience who
already know this, that is a lie told by the
August and right, it's.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
From the Iran Deal nuclear deal, it was, it's money
that's in a South Korean bank account.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Money that's South Korea, right, owed Iran is it is
in a bank account in Qatar, and it is administered
for humanitarian and food aid only by the US Treasury.
None of it has actually been released yet. And the
idea that this attack somehow happened like three weeks ago
and they go, yeah, we got six billion dollars, let's
attack Israel. Oh bullshit. This attack wasn't planning for a

(02:51):
very life.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
And I think what's important here is that what it did.
And I want to get to the Republican Congress right
now because that I think is the net of it
is a lot of Republicans were like, this is the
worst thing that's ever happened. Also, it's it's Joe Biden's fault.
And you had Sarah Ronda Rona, McDaniel, ray Romney on

(03:14):
television saying this carnage is a great opportunity for Republicans.
It was like there wasn't even a second of like,
oh my god. It went straight to like how can
we politicize this? So I want you to talk about
there is right now no Speaker of the House. There
is a pro templar speaker who is very adorable and

(03:36):
stands on a crate. His politics suck, but he is
very short.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
He isn't a magical tree.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
He's very cute. Patrick McHenry, he's teeny teeny, stands on
a little crate. We're not making fun of him because
he's short. We're making fun of him because he's inevitably
a horrendous human being. But he could be the speaker
if he had the votes, but he doesn't. So it
looks like Keem Jeff was briefed. So now you have

(04:03):
two people, neither of whom are the speaker, neither of
whom are running the House of Representatives.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Discuss This is an example of the fundamental unseriousness of
today's maga Republican Party to go through a couple of
you and I talked about the separately the other day.
The fact that Republicans are trying to blame the Democrats
for Matt Gates and his hoarde Austin Kevin McCarthy is amazing,
first off, ludicrous to the extreme. The second part you're

(04:30):
seeing here is these are the same people who have
been all buddied up to Vladimir Putin for the last
year and a half since the initial invasion of Ukraine,
you know, calling Ukrainians Nazis and every other way to
please Putin in the book, and suddenly you know they
see something. Well, you know, Putin's terrorist attacks are fine,

(04:52):
but the Hamas terrorist attacks, those draw they're so hypocritical
and so disconnected from again going back to what I
talked about in the beginning, a rules based world order
where American could be counted on to support its allies
and to stand up against its enemies, and to stand
up against nations and leaders and countries that behave like
either Russia or Hamas is doing right now. We're not

(05:17):
going to settle the Israeli Palestinian crisis on this podcast.
But what you have here is a moment where the
alliance between Hamas and Iran and between Hamas and Russia,
which they visited Russia, the leadership, the Hamas leadership visited
Russia in the spring of this year, and you ended
up with what clearly looks like a lot of Russian

(05:38):
drones being used. This thing was planned well in advance.
It did not come from.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
But I don't want to get too stuck on foreign
policy just because I don't want to get over our
skis here and I don't think the people as much
as people love us for our foreign policy bona fides,
I would like to more move back to the republic
House because this week is going to be what they say,

(06:04):
what they say, what they call in French, a tremendous
shit show of the most epic precortions and only made
worse by what's not going.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
To get just rusty, but I believe it's Imma de Monte,
which is like throwing shit around. Yeah, so let's.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
Talk about that, because so there's going to be first,
there was going to be a televised debate on Fox News,
which I have to say, like they clearly were just like,
how can we get the most attention for this? Oh,
I know Brent Behar will host a televised debate. And
then they were like, oh, that seems like too much. Okay,
we're not going to do that. I mean even that,
when I said that, I was like, has that ever

(06:42):
happened before? No, completely unprecedented.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Look, the idea, the idea that the Republican Caucus is
going to do anything except support Trump's Trump's weird trained monkey.
Jim Jordan is utterly ridiculous. Yes, they would prefer Scalise. Yes,
they'll go in the in the caucus room and they'll say, Steve,
you're the greatest guy ever, and I love you. And

(07:08):
when it comes down to it, they recognize that the
bass looks at Scalise, who is by no means a moderate,
a little centrist. He's out there on the god damn
ragged edge. David without the baggage. Yeah, he's out there
on the ragged edge. He's not crazy enough.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Jim Jordan, though, man, that is the pure shit. That
is the uncut coke coming up from Bogata in the
fast boats. That is the real dude. That is the stuff.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
So let's talk about the uncut pure Jim Jordan. Jacket
list Jim the sort of rumpel Stiltskin of our current healthscape.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Another we fell up.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Either way, it's a secret ballad the voting, So theoretically it's.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
A secret ballot in the caucus. They're gonna know, believe
me that, But where they're gonna go to the floor,
they have to go to the floor. So it's gonna
be a ballot on the floor. They're gonna vote for
the guy on the floor.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
So you think they really will make Jim Jordan the
speaker because and I mean, if that happens, see, I
feel like it's too much of a democratic fever dream,
Like come on, elect the craziest person you've ever fucking
thought of. Like it seems too crazy, but you think
they're gonna do it.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Let me tell you what's gonna happen, every fucking one,
Because here's the theory that everybody should internalize in their heads.
And it took me a long time to get there
as a former Republican. Okay, there are no good guys
left in the party, none of them, even the ones
in Joe Biden districts. Oh, Don Bacon's a good guy. No,
he's not a piece of shit. Okay, Don Bacon is

(08:45):
going to be just like the rest of them. They're
all gonna vote for this guy. They're all gonna unify together.
Their Republicans will always pull together. If they really meant
their shit, if they really really really wanted to talk
the talk, and they were real problem which they are
supposed to bullshit, they would go out and go you
know what a team. Here's the deal. We need three

(09:05):
committee chairmanships, right, and you put us on three committees.
They don't have to be the big ones. You give
us three committees, okay, to show that it's going to
be bipartisan. You put us in leadership and some we
work some kind of symbolic blah blah blah. But you
know what they won't do. They won't do that. And
right now, I don't think Jeffies could have pulled this
off in the initial run up, in the first round

(09:26):
of voting for Kevin, right, But I almost think you
could get it now because now they really know who's
in charge. It's not our buddy Coove. It's Matt Gates
and Paul Gosar and all these other whack a dudies.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
The real Nazis, as opposed to the practical, as opposed
to this sort of partial Nazis.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
It's the Halloween favorite practical Nazis starry.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
But I mean, let's just go through here for a second. See,
I mean, you think there's a world in which they're like, Okay,
this is our guy, Jim Jordan.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Really, no one ever wakes up and says, hey, Jim
Jordan's my guy. He's just a creature of the of
the bizarro world, Republican Demi Mond, of kooks and freaks
and weirdos. And look, if you want to hire a
guy who's really good at ignoring screams coming from a
locker room, that's your choice. Okay. If you want to
hire a guy who's going to actually be a leader

(10:21):
in the House or in the Republican Party, you're out
of your mind.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
But they don't need a they don't want a leader.
I mean, this is not what they want. A side show.
So and I want to talk about Nancy Mace.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Now, Oh, Nancy Mace. You know what, let me tell
you Nancy may story for you. A few months ago,
I am talking to a former Republican donor who said
to me, because you know that we were talking about
like all the good wines are gone, like Adam's gone,
Liz is gone, No one's going to stand up to
one six stuff anymore. And he's, well, I'm really hopeful

(10:52):
Nancy Mace is going to be become the new leadership,
the new leader and congressman never Trump. And I'm like,
are you kidding me? Come on? And as always as
the Cassandra of the Republican Party. I told him, I said,
she is going to do something so outrageous and break
your heart. This is also a guy who was like
a fan of Nikki Haley, who today said, oh yeah,

(11:13):
I could live with the idea of Millie being assassinated
or executed.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Yeah, that was really really I mean, what was the
need for it?

Speaker 2 (11:21):
You know?

Speaker 1 (11:21):
Here she is. They ask her, would it be okay?
What do you think of putting your the biggest general,
the most you know, the most important general of the
death And she's like, I don't think it's disqualifying, threatening
his life.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
And now what do you say to a person like that,
who honestly is is right now having her moment as
the donor bait of October twenty three where they're where
these Republican donors that are just desperate, they're small desperate. Well,
Ron didn't work out, so maybe maybe Tim Scott will

(11:53):
be the one. You No, he's too busy with his
Canadian girlfriend and she's very shy, but she's a supermodel.
But they thought for a minute it was going to
be Nikki Haley. And what has Nicki Haley done since
she had a decent debate two.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Weeks ago, destroyed herself.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
She's gone off the damn cliff. Yeah, I mean, call
me crazy, But if you're making a principal argument that
there should be a conservative president who doesn't act like
a maniac, don't endorse his positions of the former president
who acts like a maniac.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
I think that's a good call. We have almost no
one in this Republican party now right who, especially in
the House, like there are no grown ups. If they,
if I want you to like sort of game this
out with me, they If Jim Jordan does get to
two seventeen, which again would mean that eighteen Biden Republicans

(12:46):
had to vote for him, right, which would mean that
by voting for him, that is like the kind of
disqualifying vote that Nancy Pelosi used to that she used
to be horrified by the idea of making horror swing
candidate her swingy Congress. People vote for these kind of
disqualifying votes. So if eighteen Republicans have to vote for him,

(13:08):
he hurts the Republicans more than he helps them. Right, Oh,
by far, Because you just run against Jim Jordan jumping
up and down looking.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
Like listen to right, and you run against Jim Jordan,
whose number one priority is not inflation, jazz prices, the economy,
foreign policy education. You run against Jim Jordan, whose number
one priority is I want to see more dick picks
from Hunter Biden's right. I mean, it's just a if
they elect Jim Jordan, which they will now because Trump

(13:37):
has told them to, you.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Think that they will though you think he has the vote.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Here's the thing they know. They are now facing Donald
Trump at his most weird and depressively shitty vindicta's moment. Yeah,
here's the grotesque reality of the Republican Party for them.
If right, the extra got more grotesque ish. They know

(14:05):
that if Donald Trump either somehow lost the primary, or
if Donald Trump somehow he won't but he just hypothetically
went to jail, or if somehow Donald Trump said, oh God,
I've got dick cancer and I'm going to get off
the ballotive, percent of Republican voters will simply not vote

(14:26):
at all. My son, who is a very brilliant polster,
has just come out of the field with a gigantic
survey anstrument on this and depending on the states, between
twenty and twenty six percent of Republican voters who literally
won't vote at all if Trump's not on the ballot.
And so if Trump doesn't get his way with Jim Jordan,
He's going to throw a ship. Maybe maybe we'd be

(14:48):
best and not vote for the House, and then I
will just make King Jeffries do what I want. He win,
I know it, and so you end up with a
lose lose if it's Jim Jordan. Look, I will tell
you this. Kevin McCarthy, for all of his many, many,
many personal faults and by that I mean all of

(15:10):
his personal faults in every moral and personal dimension and political,
Jim Jordan cannot do one thing that Kevin McCarthy could do.
Kevin could put on normy draft yeah yeah, and go
out and sit in a conference room or on a
golf course, right.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
And seemed like lunatic. I mean, it's the difference between,
you know, a more functional looking Republican and Jim Jordan.
And it's funny because I was arguing with someone about
this last week and he was saying, well, now Democrats
have done it right. They've Kevin was their shot. But
Kevin did all the same things Jim Jordan will do right.

(15:44):
Impeach Biden. I mean, there's no daylight between the two
of them. It's just that Jim Jordan seems like a
complete lunatug.

Speaker 2 (15:52):
Okay, Kevin McCarthy brought impeachment right without a vote on it.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
Right and trying to cut the federal baidity that cut
the federal government.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Kevin's bullshit, Okay. Kevin's bullshit was that he could fake normal.
He could go in and look. Last year, he's at
a fundraiser in Texas and a friend of ours calls
us from it. Literally while Kevin's talking, he goes, this
fucking guy just stood up here and he said, in
this group of very wealthy moderate Republicans, he goes, you know,
I need you guys to help me, because if I

(16:27):
can get twenty or thirty more anti MAGA, non crazy
Republicans in the House, we can turn it all around.
The guy is a lying liar and lies. He is
a he is. The mendacity of Kevin is amazing, but
he was good at faking it right. And now with
Jim Jordan, like politically it sucks for them and financially
it sucks for them because here's the thing you've got.

(16:49):
You think, Jim Jordan is going to go sit in
a room at some private equity firm in New York
and say to everybody around the board, at the table
of the board, I need your maximum contribution because now
they're not given to their old buddy keV right, the
young gun Ryan School. Now they're giving their money to

(17:10):
the guy who's in He might have rabies.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
It is true, I mean, it's but you know that
is another thing about trump Ism, which I think is
pretty interesting, is that you have this very favorable Senate
map for Republicans. You have Mitch McConnell almost completely signed,
maybe not completely sidelined, but certainly sidelined, right, I mean,
that guy is not healthy enough to go out and

(17:36):
fundraise the way he used.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
To do well. And there's been a big dispute inside
McConnell world, Like all the teams inside McConnell world are
now fragmenting and splitting, and there are some that are
going like, we're going to bring Thune up now, and
we're the succession battle has started has started. And you know, so.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
You have that is the problem in the Senate, where
there are seats that would theoretically be winnable if Republicans
had their shit together. But they don't, right. I mean,
is there even anyone announced who's running against Jared Brown?

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Not yet. I think you're gonna go high out, Yeah,
I think you're gonna get There's a there's a maga
guy out there who's been making some noise. I can't
remember his name off the top of my head. But
he's not He's not going to beat Shared Brown. You've
got You've got Carrie Lake.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
And she's already governor, so it could be a problem.
Jesse reminds me via text message that Josh Mandell may
in fact run again.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Hello, if I may quote the philosopher Willow from the
Great Tentacle of Buffy Board now.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Well, Hello, Welcome to women and twenty twenty four. At
the Texas Tribune Festival twenty twenty three, we got some
dieharts hare getting to Saturday afternoon.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
I do want to thank the Texas Tribune and all
of the.

Speaker 3 (19:05):
Amazing sponsors for this incredible weekend and especially for our
panel today.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
Our panel grew, which I was very proud to do.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
I mean, there really cannot be a more incredible group
of I was going to say a word, I'm not
allowed to say here amazing women and really is my
honor to spend this time with them. I'm also going
to let you guys know this panel is going to
last about forty five minutes and then we'll have about
fifteen minutes for Q and A. As you see, there
is a microphone here, so I'll let you guys know

(19:35):
when to que up in line to be able to
ask the questions towards the end, Please silence your cell phones.
And for those of you that are social media Maven's
the hashtag is hashtag trip Fest twenty three. But without
further ado, I am Katie Fang from MSNBC. This is

(19:56):
not the Katie Fang Show, but we are live from
Austin in Texas. There's lots of news to cover and
lots of questions to answer, so let's get started. I
want to introduce very briefly our panelists for today.

Speaker 4 (20:09):
Joyce Vance right there in the beautiful.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Red MSNBC Legal Analysts, law professor at the Nursity of Alabama,
co host of the hashtag Sisters of Law podcast.

Speaker 4 (20:20):
She's also the author of the popular.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Substact Civil Discourse, which takes on the intersection of law
and politics. And she is the keeper of the chickens.
And then to her left is Mollie.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
Jong Fast.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Special correspondent at Vanity Fair, host of the Fast Politices podcast,
and the keeper of the hair. In the middle, we
have Maya Wiley, MSNBC Legal Analysts, President.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
And CEO of.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
The Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights and keeper
of the grace is what I am saying today, the
grace and the elegance always, and certainly not least as
Ali Vitally.

Speaker 4 (21:04):
And they see Capitol Hill correspondent.

Speaker 3 (21:08):
And the author of Electable Why America hasn't put a
woman in the White House yet?

Speaker 4 (21:16):
She's keeper of the glam ladies and gentlemen. That's Ali Vittally.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
So I want to dive straight into two of the
biggest hot button topics I think that are going into
twenty twenty four. Abortion and guns. I call it, well
abortions and gun violence. I call it guy knows and guns.
But we also want to talk about good government too,
So that's kind of what we're going to talk about today.
I'm going to start actually with Joyce because we had
a conversation about this earlier today and I thought it

(21:43):
was important to share with our audience. So we're living
in a post Dobbs world. We are in the state
of Texas. I am in the state of Florida, which
is always a hold the beer moment with.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
The state of Texas.

Speaker 3 (21:54):
But we here in Texas right now as we sit here,
it's a fetal heartbeat state.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
There's a lot of ridiculous that's going on.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
But the scary thing is it's not just going to
stop with Postdobbs. We're now looking at the potential from
your state, Joyce, your Alabama Attorney General announcing it a
court filing that prosecution of people that provide transportation for
women in Alabama to leave the state to get an
abortion is the same as a criminal conspiracy. So, Joyce,

(22:24):
how much should we be looking at the prospect of
when we get to those ballots in twenty twenty four,
looking at what the candidates are standing for when it
comes to getting further down the road from Roe v.

Speaker 5 (22:35):
Wade.

Speaker 6 (22:37):
You know, I can remember my mother in law telling
me when I was first getting to know her, this
is a long time ago, in the late nineteen eighties,
and she said, I'm a single issue voter. I remember
when abortion was illegal, and I am a single issue voter,
and I remember thinking that it was both remarkable for

(22:59):
a night lady in Mountain Brook, Alabama and a member
of polite society to be very upfront about saying that,
and also it struck me as being surprising that that
was still her single issue, because of course abortion was
well established as something that women had access to. I
have increasingly come to understand the fierceness of her views

(23:23):
because Dobbs and the end of Roe Versus weighed that
was not enough, right, that long term Republican goal was
not enough. And now as they begin to realize that
a national ban is maybe politically unfeasible, the question is
what more can the states do? States like Idaho, where
there's ongoing litigation with DOJ and the attorney general has

(23:46):
walked it back a little bit, but like Alabama, where
the attorney general, who wants to be the governor is
aggressively positioning himself like officials in other states, Texas is
one of them to prosecute women if they choose to
leave the confines of Alabama to access medical care which

(24:08):
they are entitled to access in other states. Right, the
rhetoric of Dobs is the rhetoric of states' rights and
states choices and let each state make up its own mind.
So this action by Alabama and other states would appear
to be clearly unconstitutional. You have the right to go

(24:29):
to Colorado and smoke weed if you want to, You
just can't take it back to Alabama.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Right.

Speaker 6 (24:35):
Lots of things in this country work like that. A
normal Supreme court there should be no question. But this
Supreme Court, with its special jurisprudence for Alabama, I am
deeply worried. I think this issue should be on all
of our radar screens, and we probably live in a
moment when we all need to be, like my mother

(24:57):
in law, single issue voters.

Speaker 7 (25:00):
I want to ask you, Oh, there you go.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
But Molly, I want to follow up and ask you,
because you also have your finger on the pulse of
all things politics, do you think that the single issue
voter is going to come out enough to be able
to carry us across the finish line in twenty twenty
four when it comes to the issue singularly of abortion access.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
You know, it's funny because we're here in Texas, the
state where Roe was functionally overturned by SB eight a
year before the Dobbs decision came down, and I actually
when it happened, you saw a lot of people, smart
people said, oh, they're never going to let it stand.
The Supreme Court is never going to let it stand.

(25:44):
And in fact they did, and they saw it on
the shadow dock. At September first, the law came into effect.
It was a heartbeat bill. There is no fetal heartbeat
in six weeks, right, like we you know, by calling
it a heartbeat bill, we are selling their line that
it's not true. Six week you know, it's not even
a blastula or whatever it is, doesn't have a hard

(26:06):
it doesn't even have you know, it's a number of
cells at that point. So I think that it's a
very scary time, I think for reproductive health. And the
thing that I have been so struck by with the
people I have talked to who are doctors and women
and you know, people who's you know, a hospital, people

(26:26):
who who report on hospitals and things like that, is
that you're seeing pregnant women unable to get medical care.
So it is really we are really seeing firsthand that
abortion is healthcare. And you have women in parking lots
being told to bleed out before the doctors will touch them.
So you have doctors who are afraid to treat, doctors

(26:48):
who are afraid to go to jail and are afraid
to lose their licenses. And what's funny is when you
think back to nineteen seventy three and my mom uh
was for a second wave familyst Erika Johngan. In nineteen
seventy three, she published Fear Flying, And so I always
think about, like, nineteen seventy three was the year that
Roe was decided, and it was a very conservative core

(27:12):
and they did this because besides women dying, doctors were
being put in these terrible positions. And so I really
think we're seeing that again. And in a country where
you know, we have these rural hospital closures, we have
women of color being you know, subjected to much worse
medical treatment, higher maternal fetal health rates. I mean, we

(27:36):
really are seeing a sort of healthcare emergency around doms.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
And you know, Maya, it's statistically proven that the disproportionate
burden when it comes to maternal healthcare when it comes
to communities of color, it's remarkably just terrifying when you
look at the numbers.

Speaker 4 (27:56):
How does the messaging work, though, How does the message.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Work to be able to tell people that they have
to prioritize certain things right now when you want fundamental
rights like access to healthcare, but you also still.

Speaker 4 (28:11):
Need to be able to put food on the table.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
You still need to be able to explain to people
that it makes a difference for them to get to
the ballots. But especially when you're trying to get the
messaging to be uniformly across, so it resonates with all
different communities, not just a certain one.

Speaker 7 (28:29):
So and look, I'm trying to actually thread this needle
because so many important things have been said and they're
all connected. One is, I think we've already seen what
happens when you piss a lot of women off, right,
Because what happened in the midterms, what happened in the midterms,

(28:52):
Wisconsin was denied a trifecta, Michigan got a trifecta. We
saw ballot initiatives up and down the line, some of
them in very red states where the ballot initiative was
to prevent protection from abortion in a constitution like Kentucky
get shot down in a red state, not the only one,

(29:17):
and it was because it was absolutely motivating, mobilizing, and
we also saw young people, especially gen Z, who under
participate in terms of their numbers in power, get really
engaged in those states where the battle lines were clearly drawn.

(29:40):
So I just want to say we should not ignore that.
But I also want to go back to this notion
of should we be single issue and let me because
I actually agree with all these points, so this isn't
a point of disagreement. But I want to remind us
of something. Now, my mother is from Abling, Texas. Yeah,

(30:01):
the Abilene like that. Okay, Ableinge, Texas. Grew up in
the Southern Baptist Church in Abling. Okay, many of you
should know that means she's a white woman by definition.
Because the Southern Baptists actively, formally and as a matter
of dectrinal position, was opposed to integracial integration, was supportive

(30:28):
of essentially racist policies. In nineteen seventy three, they were
pro abortion. Six years later they become anti abortion. What happened?
What happened in those six years? The Justice Department came

(30:51):
for them for their segregated schools, and then they saw
the wedge. Then they found the edge. Alis Hoague, who
used to be the president of NAYRAL has actually written
about this. It was very important reproductive freedom community. I'm
elevating this issue before we got here. And then let's

(31:13):
go to the other part of the point that you
so rightly ask about, Katie, which is so black women
in New York City, which is a blue state. Okay,
all right, ignore the midterm that has abortion right is Blueish,
Bluish has abortion rights, standing up for abortion rights, trying

(31:37):
to figure out how to be a sanctuary state for
women looking for abortion right. Well, if you are black
in New York City, you have you are eleven, not four,
three or four times more likely to die in childbirth
or from pregnancy related causes. Eleven times has nothing to
do with Republicans, not a damn thing. It has everything

(31:58):
to do with whether or not you get true access
to health care, reproductive and whether you're allowed to be
a mother, whether you are allowed to be a mother.
At the same time, we see what abortion does. And
by the way, the states, the states that rushed to
do this spanning of abortion and fetal heartbeat laws and criminalization,

(32:18):
they actually guess what were some of the same states
that refuse to expand medicaid refuse to expand it called Obamacare,
refused to expand it. It was before we lost row. So
the reason I'm saying this is because all these issues
are so deeply connected and on our powers recognizing the

(32:39):
connection voting rights. So when I said to a group
of our allies, seriously wonderful act people have said, like
every fight that we have for abortion rights or to
stop the criminalization of health care. And by the way,
thanks to black people, we had to have a constitution
that said you can cross state lines was because of

(33:00):
black chattel slavery. We should remember this right, We should
remember the very legal underpinnings of our constitutional order that
we're now fighting about in the abortion fight, on the
criminalization of crossing state lines, we have because we had
black chattel slavery and had to try to undo it.
So the truth is all our issues are so deeply linked.

(33:22):
They're so deeply and that's our power. Because when we
still start talking about voting rights, and I said to
my voting rights on my reproductive justice allies, I said,
all these states are the same states that are talking
about voter fraud and claiming that we have to make
it hard for people to vote, and that's the only
way they can hold onto power. It's the only way

(33:44):
is by cheating. And so we've got to recognize that
no matter our race. And frankly, and thank you to
the men in the audience that came to hear about
the war on women, it's bad for men. It is
bad for men. And so I actually think that the
incredible importance of the messaging, the messaging point is it's

(34:06):
not only about abortion. It's about our very democratic rights
and whether or not we are allowed to make decisions
for ourselves, our families, our communities. And it doesn't matter
what your personal views are about abortion. But it does
matter if you want to see a doctor when you're sick.
It does matter if you want to be able to

(34:28):
choose to have a healthy baby. It does matter if
you think you should get to have easy access to
a ballot in order to decide who's going to make
decision over your lives and over your communities. And that
is all of us.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Ali vitally.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
You are a Capitol Hill correspondent.

Speaker 7 (34:52):
You are in the seat of power.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
You are around the people that are making these important
decisions that are affecting all of us across the United States.
But you are also in embed in the Elizabeth Warren campaign.
And the reason why I being that up though, is
because you've been on the road, You've been to the rallies,
You've been to all of these different important stops on
these tours for these campaign tours. And what is the disconnect?

(35:15):
Because Maya talks about the connection, but there seems to
be a disconnect from the people to Washington, DC. And
it transcends just the inability to get the people into
the office that we want to be in the offices,
But what's happening with the people that are on the ground,
that are the grassroots voters that are out there trying
to make sure that what Maya talks about and what

(35:37):
Molly talks about, what Joyce talks about, that all of
that is making sense.

Speaker 8 (35:41):
So I think, look, there's so many amazing points that
have been made up here. And I would never presume
to speak for Maya, but what I felt so deeply
when you were talking about what reproductive care is to me,
it boils down to an economics issue. And so when
you want to be a voter who says, Okay, I'm
a single issue voter who cares about what it costs
when I go to the grocery store, and also how

(36:03):
I put my life together.

Speaker 5 (36:05):
Because I can.

Speaker 8 (36:05):
Choose how and when to control my reproductive health. That's
a dollars and cents issue. And so that's maybe a
matter of disconnect when we talk about this as if
it's a niche thing, as if it's a women's issue.
This is something that touches everyone, and I think that
in my ten years covering reproductive health as sort of

(36:25):
a chosen side beat in addition to campaigns and Congress
and whatever else, this idea of being post row, up
until two years ago, had always been something that people
could just theorize about, but it was always a theory,
and Republicans never thought we'd get there, and Democrats never
thought we'd get there, and everyone was sort of secure
in their echo chambers of what those talking points meant.

(36:47):
And I think that's what we saw in twenty twenty
when I was following the Elizabeth Warren campaign, is yes,
there was a push to expand reproductive freedom on the
Warren campaign and other campaigns, but it was all pretty theoretical.
And then I with Dobbs, what's been fascinating to watch
as someone who really does see themselves. As a student
of politics and demographic trends is watching the ways that

(37:09):
in each of the seven or eight crucial moments that
repro has been on the ballot, in some way, it
has overwhelmingly shown that people want to be able to
access this care and they want to be able to
access it freely. And look, that shouldn't be shocking. The
polling around this has been consistent in that roughly six
and ten Americans always over time have wanted abortion to

(37:31):
be safe.

Speaker 5 (37:32):
And legal in most cases.

Speaker 8 (37:34):
I think most instructive is a few weeks ago when
I was in Ohio, you talked about red states where
this is happening. Yes, you mentioned Kentucky rightly, Kansas as well.
That was really the first kind of canary in the
coal mine for Republicans who I increasingly get the sense
or the dogs that caught the car and now.

Speaker 5 (37:49):
May get run over by it.

Speaker 8 (37:51):
But three million people do not turn out in August
special elections for one ballot measure that does not reference
the word abortion, but is very much about that, And
I think that's instructive for everyone trying to chart the
still actively being charted post row environment, and it's why

(38:12):
when I'm on the road with my twenty twenty four
Republican candidates, they get very squeamish. Unless you're Mike Pence,
who has clearly staked out this place. They get pretty
squeamish talking about where the weak markers should be and
because they have to in that primary. But in general
it becomes much tougher because of the environment that we've
seen in the few plot points that we have of

(38:32):
what it actually means to be post Row.

Speaker 4 (38:35):
We're going to move on from.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
This topic because a we're running out of time, but
I want to get to some other stuff. But I
am because I always have an opinion, just ask my husband.
I want to emphasize vigilance because, to Ali's point, this
was this was not some surprise event that happened with
the overturning of Row.

Speaker 7 (38:55):
Let's be very clear.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
This was a This was a train that was coming
and we all saw it coming, and we were asleep
at the switch some of us when it came to it.
So I want to make sure this is part of
why we're all here today, the vigilance on making sure
that we pay attention to these issues, because this was
something that we definitely saw the red flags for I
want to go now because I want to turn to
gun violence. We're in the state of Texas, and Joyce

(39:19):
and I were walking down the street and we kept
un noticing the signs of the warnings about don't bring
your gun into this place. But Florida now has permitless carry,
and you know a lot of the states are dealing
with that right now. And obviously your state has had
more than its share of tragedy, a disproportionate share of
tragedy when it comes to gun violence.

Speaker 4 (39:36):
I'm going to read a couple of statistics that I
were stunning to me.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Four point five million women in the United States have
been threatened with a gun.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
Okay, nearly one.

Speaker 3 (39:47):
Million women have been shot or shot at by an
intimate partner, and over fifty percent of all intimate partner
homicides are.

Speaker 5 (39:55):
Committed with guns.

Speaker 3 (39:57):
So, Joyce, we got that's in front of a Supreme
Court post bruin now a post bruin America. We have
a challenge to whether or not, if you have a
domestic violence injunction, whether you should be allowed to be
able to possess a firearm. Putting aside all of the
other conditions and terms inclusive of the Hunter Biden issues

(40:19):
that deal with drugs and substance abuse. What's the prospect
for twenty twenty four? And again the focus this is women,
the war on women. What is the prospect with Rahemi
in front of the Supreme Court when it comes to
these because these are startling numbers.

Speaker 6 (40:35):
So Raheemi is one of the cases the Supreme Court
will hear oral argument in this term. I'm a former
federal prosecutor in Alabama. One of our bread and butter
statues is eighteen US Code nine two G, which is
a laundry list of people who are prohibited from using firearms.

(40:55):
The most frequently used part of the statute is the
part that prohibits people who have of prior felony convictions
from possessing a firearm. As Hunter Biden has learned, a
portion of that statute also prohibits people he used drugs
from possessing firearms. But Raheemi is a very interesting case
because often these.

Speaker 9 (41:16):
Are people who are told they.

Speaker 6 (41:19):
Can't possess guns, and there are attractive reasons for letting
them have them. Someone with a ten year old felony
conviction or someone who used to be addicted or maybe
is currently addicted to pills but has a hunting weapon.
Mister Raheemi is not in that category. He is a
repeated abuser of women. He is someone who engages in

(41:40):
domestic violence. He is trying to challenge the constitutionality of
a law that says he cannot possess a firearm. And
we know what the statistics tell us. They tell us,
and Katie relays some of this that domestic abusers who
have access to firearms are far more likely to kill
their partners. It should be a no brainer, right. Bruin

(42:05):
is the Supreme Court case from two terms ago where
the Supreme Court applied new rules for evaluating gun laws,
and it comes down to this. They said, unless a
restriction on Second Amendment rights was something that was in
existence at the time the founders wrote the Constitution, we

(42:29):
will not enforce it. There was no prohibition at the
time the founding fathers wrote the Constitution and domestic violence
abusers being able to possess firearms. In fact, the laws
and the Constitution explicitly contemplated that women were second class
citizens at that point in time. So look, I don't

(42:52):
have high hopes for Rahimi. I would like to think
that this Supreme Court would have some common sense left.
So far, they've shown no designs that they possess it.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
I think the.

Speaker 6 (43:02):
Interesting point, Katie and you sort of flag it is
what happens if Hunter Biden is convicted on gun charges
in that case goes up on appeal, and what will
sam Alito do when he has to decide between the
Second Amendment and Hunter Biden. Boy, is that going to
be tough for sam Alita.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
But Molly, this is again a single issue voter driver,
isn't it. I mean putting aside, putting aside these numbers,
putting aside the true reality and the grim reality of
what we have to suffer in America from gun violence.
A lot of people are still looking at gun control
as being a single issue vote going into twenty twenty four.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
I mean, I would say this is a Supreme Court problem, right,
And if we look at that term two years ago,
there was and I mean they have really done a
lot of stuff that's really unbelievable. I mean, they overturned
brow bruin epa versus West Virginia. I mean, limiting the
scope of the federal government when it comes to pollution.

(44:08):
I mean, they have just you know, they are remaking
this country. So I'm not sure that. And again, what
you can do with this, what we've seen with Bruin
is what you can do at the state level can
be overturned by this rogue court, right you have you know,
governors don't have the final say here. And so I

(44:28):
think the question is I think is it you know,
if you're going to vote for Biden again, which I
would assume that would be good because we otherwise we're
going to have bad whatever we're going to I mean,
otherwise a Trump I don't know how long a Trump
presidency would last, perhaps forever. If you're going to there

(44:49):
really needs to be pressure put on Biden to either
expand the court or to have term limits for the court,
or because this court is going to go the they
you know, these three Trump justices are young, right, they
are young, and they are ready, and they do not
have any interest in the status quo. And we saw

(45:10):
them again and again lie about starry decisives. So and
they will go and and so I do think Biden
is very uncomfortable trying to you know, we I talked
to people who are on his Supreme Court Committee. You know,
they they really does not want to touch this, but
term limits are very popular, and he that is something

(45:30):
he really could do in a second term. And so
I think the more that people can pressure him. You know,
this is an administration that really does respond to pressure,
as we saw with you know, some of the things
they've done recently with the Office of Gun Violence. And
so I do think that voters really do have power here.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
So Maya, this is the perfect segue into my kind
of next topic. And I wanted to speak to you
because number one, your position at the leadership conference.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
But number two, why is it that? And I'm proud
to say that I'm a woman of color, Why is it.

Speaker 3 (46:06):
That it is women of color that have become the
stalwart defenders of democracy these days?

Speaker 1 (46:11):
Why is it?

Speaker 3 (46:12):
I mean, and I appreciate all of our male allies,
don't get me wrong, right, well, why is it that
that is the case? Because we see it it runs
the gamut from the Tis James's to the FAWNI Willis's
to the Tanya Chuckkins. I mean, we're seeing this be
the case. But I wanted to kind of expand it
a little bit out though, and talk about getting to

(46:32):
the ballot box.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
Right, I want to talk about voter access.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
I want to talk about voter disenfranchisement, voter suppression. We're
seeing it happen. We're seeing the Jerry manderin. These are
all important. Is she's going in twenty twenty four And
if anybody needs super reminded, if you elect a president
who puts Supreme Court justices on the bench like we
saw with Donald Trump, you're going to get dobbs, You're
going to get bruined, You're going to get these decisions. So,

(46:56):
especially in your role at the leadership conference, what's going
on to be able to combat voter suppression? And then again,
why is it taking the women of color to make
sure that we still got democracy going on?

Speaker 7 (47:10):
Okay, I feel like every question, I feel like whoop, okay.
So well, one, I just want to remind us the
reason we have the Supreme Court we have is despite
the fact that we had a president who would have
appointed a justice who would have protected Roe, we don't
because the rules were rigged by Mitch McConnell to deny

(47:30):
Barack Obama even a hearing on his nominee, even a
hearing because it was a year before elections, so important
to remember these things. They just changed the rules and
act like it's you know, normal, and then they revert
them back right with an explicit not implicit, because Donald

(47:51):
Trump ran on a platform of reversing Row to get
anti Row justices on the bench. And that also relates
to citizens United. Dark money in politics because Leonard Leo
one point six billion dollars because somebody handed him a corporation.

(48:12):
If you give me a corporation, I swear I'll do
good things with it. So I just want to remind us.
That's just a reminder. But on the question of women
of color, it's always been women of color. And nothing
new about this, y'all. You know, it's new that we're
one out of every five people. That's what's new. It's

(48:33):
the change in our visibility because of our numbers, because
this country has been diversifying. And by the way, white
women too, Like I don't want to make this. It's
like women have for a very long time, right, for
a very long time been kind of the center of
pushing for change in America, even when we haven't gotten

(48:54):
the credit. And women of color, as I said, yes always,
and I'm going to go back to it. You all,
don't yell at me because I'm going to vote Bill Maher,
don't yell at me. Hear me out, hear me out,
hear me out. This is just a story. Remember when
you may remember this, back when Barack Obama was a
primary candidate and like number five, right, nobody thought he

(49:16):
was even going to arise to the top three, and
Moe's death and Cornell West were on Bill Maher, and
Bill Maher says to Cornell West and Mo's deaf, but
I'm folks. On Mo's death, he says, well, is it
really is America really ready for a black president? I mean,
are Americans really going to vote for a black man?
And Most Death said, can I curse? Okay, I'm just

(49:40):
it's a quote. I'm okay. So Mo's Death says, oh yeah,
because they're gonna say shit's fucked up. Let the nigga
run it. I didn't say it. Most quotes for the
records quotes that is. And I've a reason I remember
it is like he's said that. But I'm just gonna

(50:03):
say a black person was like that. That could be true.
But I do feel a little bit like the country
is in such a bad place that I'm seeing women
of color being given leadership positions we were never given before.
And I want to say that Lafonza Butler at Emma's List,
at Emily's List, Mimi timraju At now no longer nay Raw,

(50:25):
but Reproductive Freedom for All. It just rebranded all member
organizations of the Leadership Conference. So I'm just saying that
even in spaces and places where we have not traditionally
been running the show, we're seeing a change. And some
of that is because I think based on sheer, frankly, like,

(50:47):
no matter how bad it gets and how exhausted and
how angry, we just keep it moving because we have
no choice we have as women, we have no choice
across rate. We don't have no choice. You know why,
because they are babies. They are our babies, and we
know they're all our babies, like whether we gave birth

(51:10):
to them or not. And so, you know, I think
we're at a time when things are so bad that
they're saying, let her run it. Notice the word I left,
I know.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
And then this is the perfect segue to Ali Vittally,
Ali Vittally, you're.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
Not gonna curse Honny and it's gonna be okay.

Speaker 8 (51:31):
No, I'm a lapse Catholic, but I'm still a Catholic.

Speaker 3 (51:39):
If y'all haven't read Electable, y'all are missing out. It's
an exceptional book written by Ali Vittally, but the message
is just so profound, and it's disturbing that we're still
having this conversation. We had this conversation a year ago
when the book came out. We're gonna have another conversation
about it now. Gender double standards placed on women presidential candidates,
we understand twenty twenty four is a different beast. We're

(52:03):
all Biden Harris, yes, but but I'm troubled too.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
Prong question to you.

Speaker 3 (52:10):
First one is why is the Vice president Kamala Harris
getting such a short thrift?

Speaker 1 (52:17):
One?

Speaker 3 (52:18):
And then two kind of dovetailing what Maya said, why
don't we have a female president of the United States?

Speaker 4 (52:28):
Woo. It's very easy with me, and these are friends.
You can imagine if these weren't friends, what these questions
would be like.

Speaker 7 (52:36):
I am It's all good.

Speaker 8 (52:39):
I mean so, first of all, I do think it's
really important to punctuate from a reporter perspective something that
maya was saying, which is the idea that women of
color not the end We're no.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
No.

Speaker 8 (52:50):
I do think it's important, though, to punctuate the way
that I think media have done well in finally giving
women of color their flowers when they have put the
work in.

Speaker 5 (53:01):
I mean, you could not talk about.

Speaker 8 (53:02):
The games that Democrats made in Georgia without talking about
the work that Stacy Abrams did in eighteen and twenty two.
And I think that those of us who covered those
races knew that that was work, and those were seeds
that were being planted, maybe not for them, but certainly
for later. And I think that women in researching my
book as well, every woman candidate who runs for anything

(53:26):
knows that she's laying brickwork in the ground for someone.

Speaker 5 (53:28):
Else to walk over it with more ease than she did.

Speaker 8 (53:31):
And I think that that's true of both Republicans and Democrats.
But Democrats have done it. Their road is much longer right,
They've invested, They found that upside earlier than Republican women did.
The good news across the board, and eventually it becomes
a numbers game. To answer the question of why haven't
we had a female president yet? Is because the pipeline
just hasn't been full. Thankfully, the last few decades, we

(53:54):
have seen the number of women in Congress steadily rising.
The more women that are elected to federal and exacsative
office at the state wide level means that they have
a better resume that can then usher them onto.

Speaker 5 (54:04):
Those presidential tickets.

Speaker 8 (54:06):
We have then seen in twenty sixteen, in twenty twenty,
when you had more women running for the Democratic nomination
than at any point in any other primary that took
until twenty twenty. The good news is that I don't
think that we will see another primary on either side
where at least one woman isn't in the mix. And
what that means is that the imagination barrier for voters

(54:27):
is less. They don't have to wonder, well, what would
it feel like to vote for this woman, to entertain
what she looks like in that office. That means that
there's muscle memory of voting for women, and that is
so critically important because there was a really long gap
in the two thousands on where women, if they ran
Elizabeth Dole, for example, they dropped out before votes were cast,
so people didn't even have to think about what would

(54:48):
it look like to have a woman in this office,
Kamala Harris presents both an opportunity and a difficulty. And
I think Democrats and Republicans alike have made these points,
but Democrats certainly are the ones that I most here
who are grappling with this. I spent a whole chapter
on it because it was so complex. She is someone
who doesn't look like anyone who has held that office before.

(55:08):
That is both an amazing opportunity and it also means
that people look at her and expect her to redefine
the job of vice president.

Speaker 5 (55:14):
And if she were doing that, she's not being a
very good vice president.

Speaker 8 (55:19):
And therein is the paradox, because you've got people looking
at her saying, gosh, I just wish she would do more,
And no one asked that of Mike pen.

Speaker 4 (55:27):
Like Dan Quayle.

Speaker 8 (55:28):
Did quail No one asked that of Pence. When Biden
stepped out of line and did more, it was a moment,
because that's not the job of being vice president. Do I,
as the reporter here, take into account that the interviews
sometimes lack she's write words. Sure, yes, that's a problem.

(55:53):
That was a problem when Kamala Harris ran for president.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
But if you take her in the totality.

Speaker 8 (55:57):
What I often see in the criticism of her is
that people's expectations were just so high because she's history
making that it's almost unfair to set her to those
expectations because no vice president will ever meet them.

Speaker 5 (56:11):
That's not their job.

Speaker 10 (56:14):
Yes, Maya, what she said, Okay, as a as a
person who ran for office in a city that has.

Speaker 7 (56:25):
Never had a woman, Molly's gonna cry.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
Now, Yes, I just want to say that I've voted
for you. I would vote for you again. We have
as a New York resident who has who knows very
well of the New York mayor curse. I just can't
every day. I am just she's my mayor. She's the
mayor of my heart. I'm sorry.

Speaker 7 (56:48):
So, okay, thank you. That is I'm not gonna cry.
But the reason I raised my hand is because everything
Ali you said is so true and really needs to
be underscored. And then there's one thing we have to

(57:08):
say explicitly, she and a woman of color we cannot
shy away. So the double standards there. Remember Hillary Clinton
got a spanking because she was trying to run policy
as the first lady, right, Remember that remember the cookie monster, right,
So there's no question that the gender thing is real,

(57:29):
no matter the race of the woman. But we cannot
because I'm going to tell you what the problem the
Democrats have. Why did Joe Biden promise he was going
to pay black women back? And he said it explicitly
and it was the first time we got recognition, and
it is the Stacy Abrams factor for sure. But what
Stacy Abrams did is she showed America what black women

(57:52):
had been doing since including suffragettes. Need I remind anybody,
I don't think I have to mind name by this room,
black women were so for jets, so it's like always
been the case. But but but he explicitly said I
owe my seat to black women, uh, which is part

(58:12):
of Kamala Harris becoming is running mate. It was also
why Katanji Brown Jackson is now one of the most
fabulous Supreme Court justice we've saved.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
But I I want to piggyback on you for a
minute because this is something that I've talked about and
I've interviewed the Vice President twice and that I actually
believe that there is an innate sexism and racism that
she bases that is impossible for us to put our
fingers on. And I think that it really affects the

(58:45):
way people see her, the way they treat her, the
questions they ask her. I mean, I really see this,
and I've talked to you know, I've actually even talked
to you know that she has this there, and you know,
I've talked to people who are like, I just don't
know why I don't like her, and I'm like, I
know why. There's just something about her and I so

(59:08):
that I think that I just wanted.

Speaker 6 (59:09):
To add that, you know, Can I just add one Morrison,
because I think this is the important data point about
Kamala Harris. He's a lovely human being who faces challenges
that are unfair.

Speaker 4 (59:21):
She is a knitter, I mean.

Speaker 6 (59:25):
And a cook she that too, But I mean she
is not She is not, you know, a pedestrian knitter.
She is an accomplished knitter. And the thing that I
know about knitters being one of them and seeing a
number of y'all out in the audience, knitters get shit
done right.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
I mean, I now know why, I now know why
I lost the mayor's race.

Speaker 6 (59:54):
But Maya, to your point, we live in we live
in difficult times. We live in troubling times. I want
to see Kamala Harris, not next term, but the term
after in the White House because we need and it
comes found to out.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
So I want to invite if you guys have questions. No,
no stampeding, but there isn't open mic here, so please
feel free.

Speaker 4 (01:00:18):
To come up and queue in line. Please, And why
are not a question?

Speaker 7 (01:00:21):
Why are open mike? Because I want it just a
little insider perspective on Allie's point about pipeline for women.
And first of all is if you try to put
yourself in a pipeline, I tell you don't deserve to
be there. Okay, I just want to say that as
someone who ran and was told wait, you don't you
didn't get in line, You're you weren't up. I was like, Smorry,
it's not and they don't give you money. You do

(01:00:43):
need money to win. You need money to win, and
women have a very hard time of any race raising
the dollars. None of that is about the quality of
the candidate.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
So if this is a knitting question, Joyce, we'll take
that separately at the end of the panel.

Speaker 7 (01:01:00):
No, I need to know how to knit.

Speaker 4 (01:01:01):
Do you need to learn how to honey.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
I tried.

Speaker 8 (01:01:03):
We can start a little circle, because I want to
do if we can tell you.

Speaker 4 (01:01:07):
Some stories about them.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
It was me Mary Trump, Joyce Vance, Aging Carroll and
Gentile praying for me to learn how to knit. There
may have been some boosoma anyway, please go ahead.

Speaker 11 (01:01:23):
Well, I just wanted to say, first of all, thank you.
It's been such an empowering panel but also just really joyful,
which is awesome.

Speaker 8 (01:01:29):
Thank you.

Speaker 11 (01:01:33):
And my question was going back to the idea of
there's just something about Kamalade that you just can't put
my finger on it, Like I've definitely also felt that,
and it was hard for me to articulate, especially as
I'm continuing to try and do the work to break
down internalize misogyny, internalized racism. And so I'm curious if
you think that there's a space going into twenty twenty

(01:01:55):
four to address the internalized issues like as a you know,
four of the people who are consistently voting blue, Like,
where does that conversation come in where it's not just
I'm showing up as a Democrat, but I'm actually like
the doing the personal work so that in the future
we can get her, you know a president president question.

Speaker 7 (01:02:14):
So well one, I really appreciate you raising up point.
It takes a lot of bravery. And you know, the
truth is we all have internalized stuff. Can't grow up
in America not so just thank you for that. But
I think that's a big part of it, is just
calling it out, like if you don't if you can't
find a reason, then you have a reason that you're
just not confronting. And the other thing i'd say, and

(01:02:36):
it's very hard. You can do it running for a
mayoral office, it's really hard doing it when you're running
a national race. Is if y'all met Kamala, it's like
she is the most lovely person. She really is. She
will hook you want to talk about joyful. That woman
is joyful. She's brilliant, she's joyful, she's loving. So is
Hillary Clinton? Like you know, everybody asks like she's some monster,

(01:02:59):
say like if you met her, to be like, I
like her. I want to have dinner with her. But
we in national racism in particular, you know, we don't
get that. And women have a harder time being seen
as relatable, right, especially in women of color, and so
that relatable is that nonverbal? I just don't know. And

(01:03:21):
what people looking for is I want to feel I
want to feel something, but you know when it's harder
to feel it with women, that's what That's what really
And then it's like just posing that question was like, well,
if you can't find a reason, is there one?

Speaker 8 (01:03:36):
I will add, just as the reporter here who believes
that it's the politician's job to get themselves across the
way that they want to be perceived. Yes, I think
it's on voters and all of us to ask these
questions of our implicit bias, of why don't we accept
a certain level of authenticity from people like Hillary Clinton,
from people like Kamala Harris. I think all of those
are very valid questions, and we don't allow women to

(01:03:58):
showcase all of themselves because by b too likable, they're
not strong enough. If they're too strong, then they're too shrill.
All of those things are real. And also, you'll run
within the environment that you run. It's not a secret
that Harris has these problems. Her team is well aware.

Speaker 5 (01:04:12):
She is well aware. She ran a presidential that ended.

Speaker 8 (01:04:15):
Quite badly for a whole myriad number of reasons, but
among them was the fact that she just at certain points,
as the reporter asking the questions, didn't necessarily know her stuff.
So it's on us to deal with our implicit biases
and the way that we look at these candidates, and
it is very much on them to get it together
and get them points across the way that they need
to be seen.

Speaker 7 (01:04:33):
But I will say again, inside of you, if you
don't have money, you because how do you get that?
How do you get how do you get the team
that can give you and feed you. So I'm just
saying that I'm just going to.

Speaker 6 (01:04:50):
Yes, literally part of that equation that we have to
acknowledge to the point of your question, and it's this, Yes,
their societal obligations. Yes, the candidate has obligations. This country
has enemies that do not want to see democracy prevail,
and social media disinformation misinformation from those enemies plays an

(01:05:15):
enormous role in negative characterizations of women like Hillary Clinton and.

Speaker 7 (01:05:19):
Kamala Harris Good.

Speaker 4 (01:05:24):
Please, thank you tough for all of us.

Speaker 6 (01:05:26):
And it means we need to push back and stay aware.

Speaker 9 (01:05:29):
So thank you all so much for being here.

Speaker 12 (01:05:30):
So while I'm closer to retirement now, I started off
my career. I spent seven years running two abortion clinics
in Dallas and in Fort Worth.

Speaker 7 (01:05:39):
And thank you.

Speaker 9 (01:05:41):
I remember the day that Bill Clinton was inaugurated. It
was an off.

Speaker 12 (01:05:45):
We didn't have any patients that day, and I'm in
the clinic by myself. My Angelou is doing her poem
and I'm crying because I'm thinking, finally, it's okay, right,
We're done, and here we be. So in the light
of not being surprised, you know, we a couple of
years ago and continuing, we have had national organizations that
have propagated anti abortion legislation like the actual wording, so

(01:06:08):
that it makes it very easy for state.

Speaker 9 (01:06:10):
Legislators to pass this.

Speaker 12 (01:06:11):
This past year we had anti trans youth issues, same
wording across the multiple states. There's been some talk that
the next step is contraception and the possibility of us
living in a I guess of post Griswold world.

Speaker 9 (01:06:25):
What do you think about that?

Speaker 12 (01:06:27):
Or is the fact that ballot measures have been that
Republicans have lost in ballot measures going to make that
less likely?

Speaker 9 (01:06:33):
Or what do you think?

Speaker 6 (01:06:37):
So I'll just say one short thing, which is this,
I'm from Alabama. Chris Kobak is the individual that you're
referring to that put the groups together that wrote this legislation,
anti immigration legislation, voter suppression legislation. It continues to be
a serious threat. We need to be aware of it
if we don't want to end up in a post Griswold,

(01:06:59):
post vote right Zach world, which I am very frightened.

Speaker 7 (01:07:02):
Of, also posts marriage equality. I mean, so I just
it's all the things right, and I'll just say the one,
the really most important pushback to all of this, because
I don't want us to leave thinking that there we
don't have power, is we are the majority. We are
the majority, and the we looks like the country in

(01:07:26):
all of its gorgeous beauty. And that is what we
have to mobilize to. And it goes back to that hope,
right is And the hope isn't inevitability. The hope is possibility.
But that hope comes from being able to come together
and seeing the organizing that's happening both here in Texas,

(01:07:46):
in Alabama, in other states Alabama Forward and all these
other like it's happening. So we just have to figure
out how to wrap our arms around that and support that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:56):
Thank you go ahead these right, Thank you.

Speaker 13 (01:07:58):
My name is Jana Silms. I'm an organizer, and so
in organizing, defining the narrative is very important and you
never want to let the opposition define the narrative. But
my question is, have we done a good job of
defining the narrative? Is pro choice the right narrative when
you're trying to compete with you know, killing babies? I mean,

(01:08:22):
And so I'm curious what y'all think about how we're
doing undefining the narrative.

Speaker 1 (01:08:25):
I'll take this one. So I would say I have
really a problem with this the late term abortion discussion,
because right, people are not having a people are not
carrying children, and then being like at thirty weeks, you know, oh,
I change my mind, right, like the people who are
having abortions at that time. And I know because with

(01:08:49):
my oldest son, he had a genetic disease and we
we might have to have a second trimester abortion because
he was going to die, and it turned out he
didn't have it. But my doctor was like, I don't
do second trimester, and then she started telling me the
horror stories of patients she had had who had, you know,
a dead fetus and had to go to California because

(01:09:11):
there was no doctor who did abortions that late. And
so I think that it's really, really really important that
we do not do enough defining like these these bands
are not. They they end up preventing people who you know,
they end up causing people who have dead babies to
be walking coffins, right, I mean that's what this is.

(01:09:31):
This is not you know, nobody is getting a kind
of an abortion that late unless there is some you know,
either they're gonna die or the baby's gonna die. And
so we definitely don't do enough messaging on that. I
would say with some of the other things, like we
you know, it's popular, like voters are out there voting
for choice, right they and you know, with birth control,

(01:09:54):
like you start saying Republicans are coming for your birth control,
that's very effective messaging. I mean, just like with pornography,
like Americans don't want Republicans coming for their pornography or
their birth control, and so you know, I will I
think that's a fight that Democrats should definitely have and

(01:10:15):
that they can win.

Speaker 7 (01:10:16):
Can I just say the one thing I agree totally
women of color, though I have a much more complicated
relationship to it. So this is where I think values
messaging is so important, and it's one of the things
we have not been good enough at. You know, we
become so issue focused and I see self reflection. So
I mean, I think we and what the right has

(01:10:37):
done so well is not right. That's why they can
say war on woke and like attack banking regulations, like
what the heck does that have to do with woke?
But you know, so, but they can use that right
for everything, and you know in this fight, because I
do think and going back to this point is you

(01:10:58):
know what people are upset about is wait, you trying
to get between me and making some really personal decisions.
Like that's why we have a lot of religious women
who are deeply religious and actually have very strong feelings
about abortion being a sin, saying but that's not okay.
So I do think like finding the value that really

(01:11:18):
is redefining freedom because one of the things that the
right has done really effectively is redefined freedom as a
weapon for what is truly freedom right, And so we
have to take back that value of what freedom really is,
and freedom is the right to make decisions about your
own body. Freedom is about the right to get the

(01:11:39):
care you want, make the decisions you want. Freedom is
about the marry whoever the hell you love. You know,
it's all these things, and it's our kind of underpinning.
But it's a shared value across politics, and we have
to animate that more and then that enables us to
also talk to our particular communities where it's not pro
choice for a lot of black women, but it is

(01:12:01):
pro freedom. It is pro freedom to make your own
decisions about your family, including to have healthy babies. If
you choose, please go ahead.

Speaker 14 (01:12:14):
Kay.

Speaker 15 (01:12:15):
I think the question we're asking about Kamala Harris is wrong.
It's not what she is doing wrong that's blaming her.
I'm tired of that, tired of blameing women. The question
is what is Biden doing wrong. A good leader in
any setting uses the people that he has chosen and
has put around him. He's not giving her the opportunity
to shine. And I think if he gave her the opportunity,

(01:12:37):
and if every president before him had given their vice
president the opportunity to shine, maybe it'd be a different place.
But he's just doing what every president before has done,
which is not letting your vice president do anything so
I just was wondering what your thoughts are.

Speaker 7 (01:12:53):
So I, well, this is a complicated question because there's
a whole bunch of inside baseball that I won't pretend
I know all of and what I do know is
it's complicated. What I will say, though, is I think
we are seeing her both being utilized and being much
more of a presence than she was a year ago
on these unreally critical from from Roe from abortion to

(01:13:16):
voting rights. And actually she's taking a very active role
now I'm missing disinformation and what to do about artificial intelligence,
and she's taking leaderships. So I hear that, and I
think there's a legitimate conversation to have around what is
the empowerment, what is how is the president you know,
organizing his cabinet. I mean, that's really it's that's a

(01:13:38):
that's a broader question as well. And there's a lot of,
for instance, consternation about whether it's cabinet secretaries are being
given enough independence to do the things they want to
do because there's so much fear sometimes about the politics.
So it's a legitimate thing to raise. I just want
to say we it's important for us to recognize she's
doing a lot more of it, and she's doing it

(01:14:00):
a lot better. And it's this is an a static situation.

Speaker 8 (01:14:05):
Hi, what one baby ad is It's still politics. You know,
you're not going to tee up the next coming or
whoever's next. Even though Biden says that he's going to
pass the torch kind of leader. This is a guy
that's wanted to be president for three decades. He tried
three times, He's finally there. This explains a lot of
the current moment. And as much as I think he

(01:14:27):
wants to be a torch bearer within the party.

Speaker 5 (01:14:30):
It's still politics. At the end of the day.

Speaker 8 (01:14:31):
You're not going to tee up your best competition and
overshadow yourself.

Speaker 6 (01:14:35):
But can I add one last thing about that. I
think it's a very interesting question because it goes to
the issue of management style and leadership style, and the
point that presidents for time immemorial have not pushed forward
their vice presidents for the reasons that Ali identified. I
think that's absolutely accurate. So I am intrigued by this

(01:14:59):
news we got this week that Kamala Harris is running
point on this new gun control office. You know, it
seemed like she got sidelined sidelined, and whether it was
the fault of her staff or just something dysfunctional going
on on tough issues like the border that no Democratic
can ever win on, right. I mean that was just
don't please, don't send her to the border, this gun

(01:15:21):
control issue.

Speaker 7 (01:15:21):
I am fascinated to see.

Speaker 6 (01:15:23):
What she makes of it, because I think she's a
strong and a forceful leader, and I think Joe Biden
actually appreciates her. The relationship seems to be genuine. So
I would just put that asterisk to the question and say,
let's see what happens.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
So I think we're technically out of time, but I
did want to let you ask a question.

Speaker 14 (01:15:41):
Yeah, I'm sharing from Ohio, and I appreciate Allie's shout out.
We worked really hard to defeat that little slide in
special election in August. So since most elections, you know,
you have your left and your right, and people are
dug in, so most of it is in the middle.

(01:16:01):
I know a lot of anti abortion people are just
anti choice to begin with. There are some that are
truly religiously anti abortion. David French, I'm sure all you know, evangelical,
very pro life, brought up some really interesting points when
I was talking to him this morning, if that I
think might be convincing to pro life people to vote

(01:16:25):
for a Democrat. His points were, he posed the questions,
who do you think had the most reduced rate of
abortions of any administration? It was the Obama administration, he said,
by like three hundred thousand a year less abortions because

(01:16:45):
of the infrastructure of trying to support families. He said,
what administration do you think had the most abortions for
the last twenty year? The Trumpump exactly exactly. So if
you're concern really is so he talked about like just
trying to legislate is not going to work. So if
your concern really is to prevent abortion and you are

(01:17:09):
pro life, then maybe you should consider expanding support for
people to be able to choose that. So I just
thought maybe that could change people that aren't dug in,
you know, either way, that they could say, yes, I'm
pro life, I'm supporting this candidate. They're pro choice, but
in the end, what they support is going to cause

(01:17:30):
fewer abortions. So what are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 4 (01:17:34):
Quickly does somebody want to answer?

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
I mean, I think the supposition here is that these
people are not hypocrites, right, I mean there's not you know,
look the child tax credit right lifted all these children
out of poverty. Now they're all support it. This is
not about this is about power and control. This is
not about you know, these people and a lot of

(01:17:58):
these people, you know, payper If their daughters need an abortion,
they'll pay for it in a minute. So I just think,
like what, I love David and I think he's very
smart and a good writer. But you know, he truly
believes this, whereas I think a lot of these people don't.

Speaker 4 (01:18:15):
So I just want to thank all of you for
being here.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
I want to thank Molly, John Fast, Joyce, Fan Smyle Wiley,
Hallie VI's Hallie.

Speaker 4 (01:18:23):
Thank you guys all for being here. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
No moment, Rick Wilson, Yes, do you have a moment
of fuckery for us?

Speaker 2 (01:18:36):
I always have a moment of fuckery for you, Molly.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
Let's hear the moment.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
Here's the moment of fuckery. Matt Gates is the Dobbs
decision of Republican inter party politics. On the one hand,
he got everything he wanted. He got the chaos, he
got the monkey show, he got the insanity and he
got the guy he hated the most killed off. But now,
just like with Dobbs, when Republicans caught when the dog

(01:19:00):
caught the car, the consequences of it are going to
be catastrophic because, let me tell you, Matt Gates doesn't
want to be in the minority. Matt Gates doesn't want
to be the guy who who will go down most
likely as the guy that costs Republicans their majority in
the House. That's a rarity, that's something that you just
don't get that frequently. Nobody fucks up that badly. But

(01:19:22):
it looks like Matthew has.

Speaker 1 (01:19:25):
That is a really good point. That is I hadn't
even thought of that, but it is. He is the
Dobbs decision of the Republican Party, which is a little
bit ironic. What I might say one might I'm going
to say that my moment of fuckery is JD Vance
because Jdvans lied about that. I mean, it was like
there was so little time between the like horrendous, horrendous

(01:19:51):
kidnapping videos we saw and the horrible violence we saw
and these like children and women and old ladies being
kidnapped to Jdvance being like this is all Joe Biden's
fault because of the nuclear deal, and Jadvance is like
has multiple Ivy League degrees, Like the man is just

(01:20:13):
a fucking liar.

Speaker 2 (01:20:14):
Yeah, I can't really debate that part. His mendacity is stratospheric.

Speaker 1 (01:20:23):
Thank you so much for coming on. I hope you'll
come here.

Speaker 2 (01:20:26):
You are very welcome as always.

Speaker 15 (01:20:27):
My friend.

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in
every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds
in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you
enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend
and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rick Wilson, Katie Phang, Ali Vitali, Maya Wiley & Joyce Vance