November 10, 2025 • 47 mins
The Lincoln Project’s Rick Wilson examines how Trump continues to lose the messaging war over the shutdown. The Fight Agency’s Rebecca Katz and Morris Katz detail how Democrats continue to win heading into the midterms.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds and Republican congressman who actually was a
Democrat until pretty recently. Jeff Andrew says, We're going to
get killed in the midterms. Time to switch back, little buddy.
We have such a great show for you today. The
(00:22):
Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson joins us to talk about
Donald Trump's failures in the messaging wars. Then we'll talk
to The Fight Agency's own Rebecca and Morris Kats no
relation about how Democrats can continue to win going into
(00:43):
the midterms. But first the news.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Smiley Trump is promising a two thousand dollars tariff dividend
as the Scooter's decision looms, Adam Schiff says, the same happening.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I think Trump understands that he's in it right,
that people that he's not popular, that the polling is bad,
that the East Wing, that those optics of him destroying
the East Wing are not helping him, and so he's
just like tweeting a lot of shit. It's not tweeting,
it's truth thing. He's truth thing on his truth social
(01:15):
and so you see him, if you look at them
all together, they're increasingly erratic and crazy. Trump see him
like the lizard brain going back and here he is
saying that maybe he'll pay a two thousand dollars dividend
to most Americans out of the billions raised in tariffs
this year. Okay, he doesn't have the authority to do this.
He probably doesn't have the authority to do the tariffs
(01:37):
in the first place. You could just instead of paying people.
And again, this is like the Donald Trump post pandemic stuff, right,
like he's going to do Trump checks with Trump dollars.
Except what I don't think Donald Trump understands is he's
made everything more expensive with the tariff. So now the
idea that he's going to give people a check, it's
just completely nonsensical. But more important, besides just being nonsensical,
(02:02):
it is also just like he's panicking. And this sort
of panicky stuff is you know, they're just throwing everything
on the wall to see what might help his popularity,
and none of it is going to work. And it's
a little bit fun to watch.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
It really does feel like a lot of this is
that usual thing of that when he knows he's losing something.
You just see tons and tons of stupid shit, which
is why we're discussing that fat people quote unquote are
not going to be allowed to get visas and come
to America.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
First of all, I think the theory here is that
this is new State Department guidance encourages embassies and consulates
to deny visas to Americans with obesity or other health issues. Now,
there are countries that do this, and one of them
is Canada. Right, Like, if you want to become a
Canadian citizen, it's harder if you're older, it's harder if
you have health problems. You know why that is because
(02:57):
Canada has state healthcare. So if you become a Canadian
citizen and you go to the hospital, they have to
treat you. Now, America, we don't have that, right. In fact,
we you know, we have Obamacare. We have something so
that you don't just die twenty years ago, you just died,
or you went to the emergency room and then they
sent you home with a bill for forty thousand dollars.
(03:19):
But we don't have free health care. So the idea
that somehow these people will get visas and then we'll
get free health care. Like it's putting a lot of
stupid in there. But the other thing is like, we
are not we just are not offering a lot of
visas to people, period. And so these are just making
something that's not really happening that much harder. Even so,
(03:42):
I'm not surprised by this. And again, remember this administration
is all stick right, it's no care. Like at every
point they're like, oh, what would be unpleasant for people? Oh,
I know, let's ban fat people. And remember that on Friday,
when Donald Trump kept falling asleep in the Oval office
and doctor Meminaz kept talking about dementia, which was just
(04:05):
an odd coincidence, he was there to announce his fat
shot deal. I swear to god, fat shot deal got
your pharmaceutical company is to lower the cost the popular
with drugs o Zepeg and Zeppbam to about one hundred
and fifty dollars a month. They currently cost a little
bit more than twice that. So Trump took that announcement
to reveal that Stephen Chung was taking the drug. Because
(04:31):
if you know Donald Trump, you know that everything is copying.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I mean, he really loves to embarrass a fat guy.
Despite he loves.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
To embarrass anyone I.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Know, but particularly I've always said he loves like a
big goombay energy. He really really loves to rub it
in people's faces and stick their face. And that moment
was something that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So, in other ridiculous things, Todd Blinch no friend of
the show whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Speak for yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Hell yeah, I'm sure he's DOJ's number two, and he
is framing the legal battles. The Trump administration is in
as war on judges at rogue activist judges, and he
wants young lawyers to join the fight.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, Todd Blanche. You'll remember Todd Blanch from going to
visit Gallaine Maxwell and jail and then moving her to
a nicer prison camp facility. I don't think Todd Blanche
is doing so great. This is sort of pretty stupid crap.
And you know, I think, you know, he's young lawyers
(05:34):
to join the administration's war. I mean, I guess maybe
if they offer them sneakers. Most of these people go
to law school to either because they want to do
what's right or because they want to make money, And
what Todd Branch is doing here is offering them jobs
in the federal government, which are like things that if
you want to make money, you're not going to do,
(05:55):
and if you want to do what's right, you're probably
not going to go work for Trump. And I think
this is a binary that's exploring. Here's what he says, Todd.
And remember he's at the Federalist Society conference, so he
needs you know, he's looking for another Alito, another Thomas.
He's trying to find someone who has the fortitude of
a Greg Guttfeld and the intellect too. We need you
(06:15):
because it is a war and it's something we will
not win unless we keep on fighting. Sure, Todd, Sure,
there is.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Some concern that Maryland may not do the redistricting that
California plans to do, and it looks like Governor Wes
Moore has dispelled any doubts that Maryland may go ahead
with this.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I mean, look, the real question is why is New
York not doing redistricting. I understand that it'll be a
longer timetable. Why doesn't Governor hokel have that as a
sort of damnicle is like saying, you know, look, if
you start redistricting, we start redistricting. I don't understand why
every blue state governor is not. Like all over the
redistricting battle, Like, you know, what Gavin Newsom did was
(06:57):
incredible and you know, you may not love him politically,
but like he put together a special election in three months,
raised millions of dollars to do it, and he won,
and like in the end, he showed Republicans that they
can't cheat to win, and that is real. Rick Wilson
(07:17):
is the founder of the Lincoln Project and the host
of the Enemy's List. Welcome back two fast politics for Wilson,
Molly John Fast.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
That's always a delight to be with you.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I delight to be with you. So Trump first administration
ever to fuck with snap benefits, longest shut down ever
heading into Thanksgiving. My man just got a show lacking
in the twenty five election cycle. And the administration has
come out of it with the decision to try to
what prosecute states for trying to fill snap benefits on
(07:50):
their own.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Pretty much the message today has been don't feed those
starving people that were starving. I mean, and I think
it is. I think it is pretty remarkable. How how yeah,
that's exactly right. My one was good too. I think
it's pretty remarkable how we're leaving off the word children. Yeah,
this because the majority of the people that are receiving
(08:12):
these benefits, the benefits go to their kids. If you
watch Fox, you think these people are all buying you know,
it's all like they're buying lottery tickets and mental cigarettes.
Because we're so subtle here at Fox. You know, it's
just such a racist dog whistle. But a lot of
people that are getting this are Trump supporters, Red states,
Red states, Red congressional disters and their kids.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
White people in Red state, White.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
White people in Red states.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I'm gonna make you be old Rick Wilson, the one
you're tweeted about how sad you were about Dick Cheney dying.
We love you and we know that you worked with him,
and it's different when you're friends with someone. But what
are the sort of what's the political calculus on fucking
with food stamps? I mean, is that like it's this.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Is something that gives Russell Vaught a heart on and so, but.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You do have to theoretically at least win elections.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Hypothetically, But you know, they also look at elections as
sort of more optional than they used to be. But
in the case of Snap benefits, there is a.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Twofold gift looking up some data for me.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Not I'm actually not, but the Snap benefits problem is
twofold for them. One, there's a racist dog whistle. They
need to get the Trump base back in line, Okay,
even though most of the people receiving SNAP are not minorities,
not illegal immigrants, because they don't get SNAP just so
everybody knows. They need something to juice the Trump base backup,
because even with his base, Trump's numbers are down. The
(09:40):
second part of this is there is a exercise of
presidential authority argument being made by Russ Vott, Stephen Miller,
those guys inside the White House that holding the line
on this and saying that the president gets to control
all aspects of this is one more of their presidential
you know, plenary powers of the president that cannot be
gainsaid and that the law doesn't matter what it says,
(10:01):
the President's will override the law.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Let's talk this through, you know, government longest shut down ever? Right? Yeah,
I mean there are certain like facts about trump Ism
that I feel like we just don't repeat enough, Like
this man is the oldest person to ever have become president, yes,
so on Friday when he kept falling asleep during things.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Which was I thought quite special.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I mean, did you were you waiting for the CNN
package on that, I mean, did you want to?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
You know, I was told by a number of people
that any infirmity, slowness of wit, any alteration from the
patterns of a healthy fifty year old deserved immediate, consistent,
ongoing critical media concern at every second for the rest
of their presidency. But apparently that rule was, you know,
(10:57):
is now one of those like more in the more
in the in the breach than the observance.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
So what do you think the game here is? Like,
clearly Republicans did if even if they're saying, even if
they're not saying it to be true, they definitely saw
that Tuesday was fucking slacking for that.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Oh they know it. And by the way, by the way,
their own polsters are telling them, wake the fuck up,
their own polsters are telling them, this has been really
bad for you guys, because it has been. This has
been a very bad month and change for the Republican Party.
Because you know, the harm being done to poor people
(11:35):
is not the point. The harm being done to their
own base is the point, and there's been a lot
of harm done to their own base.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Trump has been insane and done insane stuff. Like it's
been a decade we've seen a lot of like him
where you're like, how does this work for anyone? But
with this, it feels more like he's actually just been
sort of like checked out and not focused.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, I was gonna a sort of a sort of
say if you felt the same way I did about this.
There has been a sort of he's like a passenger
right right now. And yes he wants to troll people
and talk and you know, do his usual tough guy act.
But there feels it feels a little different to me
right now that he has been much more, much more
(12:19):
just like yeah, well you know, Democrats, he'll read the
talking point, but there's not much there there, There's not much.
There's not much emotion to it.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Trump did a couple of weeks ago he was like
on this Nobel Peace Prize kick or he was going
to do all these.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Wars, Well, he's just going to give him one now,
and then.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
They put out the prize. He didn't get it. It
turns out you had. It's not just like you just
can't just like think about it and get it and
weird huh yeah, and then now we're in the shutdown,
he wants to get rid of the filibuster. I think
it's a little bit interesting and important. Like if we
look at last week, so Tuesday, is this a Mikey Cheryl,
(13:02):
this is a this is a race that I've covered,
so I'm really more sort of read in on it
went from uh, it was it was a D plus
six for Harris, a D plus thirteen, I think, yeah,
probably for Mikey, right twelve point eight. I think now she.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Did very well. She did very well. And look this
breakdown of fundamental voter behavior with these governor's races all
through with that through line of economics. Republicans had locked
that thing up with Trump for such a long time
of Oh, Trump's good on the economy, Trump's the economy.
President Trump's the guy who's going to make the economy
(13:42):
hum again. Those things are now gone because people know
he's not going to do anything for the economy. He's
not going to help people survive, he's not going to
help people prosper. He's helping his buddies. He's building a ballroom.
He gives zero fs about anybody else and anything else.
And so I I think that both Ryl and Spanberger,
(14:03):
they were so good, they were so on point about
sticking with affordability and jobs in the economy that they
really gave everybody, gave all the Democrats a path forward
that is much more terrifying to Republicans than if they
had said, oh, well, yeah, we will relitigate the culture
(14:24):
war with you one more time.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It's funny to me because Glenn Youngkin, mister Reshnak, he
won Virginia by two points. Abigail Spanberger, she won Virginia
by fourteen plus. When Youngin won, everyone said he was
going to be president next.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
That's what I was told by many people, that Glenn
Youngkin was the inevitable next president. Somehow that has not
worked out. I will say this, The delta among the
numbers in Virginia was so enormous. The change level of votes,
including in very red parts of the state and very
rural counties of the state, was so enormous that I
(15:07):
spoke to one Republican polster on Friday night. I get
Friday morning, I guess, and he said, yeah, I'm so
having trouble believing the numbers and if I was like,
if I was like all my clients, I would tell
you it was a stolen election. But it wasn't. They
just beat our ass. And there is a little Republican
vibe space emerging of oh the election was stolen. Of
(15:28):
course it wasn't. But that tells you how badly they
got whipped, and how badly they know they got whipped.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
The Georgia numbers, so these are Georgia's state wide Public
Service Commission.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
We had two candidates R plus two. Ye swung to
a D plus twenty five.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
One of my big theories of this case is you
could never beat the culture war by fighting another culture war,
but you could beat the culture war by fighting an
economic war. And they had the same message of span
Berger and Cheryl and mom Donnie. Okay, to be fair, yeah, economics, economics, economics, families,
prosperity for individuals, taking care of people, the economic argument,
(16:13):
that's the underlying thing. It turned all the bullshit about
culture war stuff and trans issues like it turned them
actually into a into a negative for the Republicans, which
you know, call me crazy, but this is a they
were trying to play like you know, now, that's what
I call Culture War twenty twenty four edition. And it
just didn't work.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You know. There were so many news cycles that were
like Democrats have lost Latino voters. They'd lost and they've
lost them. They've lost them, They've lost.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Right, it's all over, they're back. The phrasing that a
lot of people use that I think is exactly right
is Trump did not win those voters over. He just
rented them. He had them for a cycle, and a
lot of them were impacted by what was then the
Biden economy, with high inflation and high prices, high gas
price as well. Those high prices are still with them,
(17:03):
and they're family members, relatives, friends, are being rounded up
on the streets. They are not down with the ice
the ice capades, if you will. And so this whole
idea that his fans were permanently part of the Republican
coalition has really fallen apart. And the only caveat to
that that I would point out for our Democratic friends
(17:24):
is they did not come back to you over climate
change or abortion or gun control or any other portfolio issues.
They came back to you because of the economy and
the horrors that are being played out in our streets
right now. So those are things to keep in mind
when you're talking about how do you take that return
of this coalition and maximize it in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Right, That is true, and I think that's a really
important point. But also, but also you know, you don't
at the end of the day, you don't really know
why you get those voters.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
You have some knowledge of it from the exit polls,
you don't have You don't have amazing granularity on it though, honestly,
but we do know. We do know from a lot
of the exit polling, we do know from some of
the voter file research that we've been engaged in and
others have been engaged in. There's no powerful argument right
now on the Republican side that says, hey, you know what,
(18:18):
you should stick with us because we're going to make
things more affordable. They have failed to do that, and
we're going to stop rounding up your friends, family members, cousins,
and neighbors in the streets because they're not going to
stop doing that right now. And so I just I
feel like there's a moment here where Democrats, you know,
(18:39):
can say this thing worked, do more of this thing.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Right right right, No, for sure. Well, and also so
I just want to get through last week. So we
have this huge day, which is also good for people
care about democracy, and it feels like maybe we're going
to get out of this thing eventually. And then the
next day, Donald Trump gives Republican senators the tour of
(19:03):
his flattened East wing, some of the new gold lettering,
and also tells them they have to get rid of
the filmbuster.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Discuss Look, well, the real telling point there is what happened.
The minute he said you have to get rid of
the filbuster. John Thune walked out the door, and within
minutes of leaving that meeting, they were telling reporters the
votes aren't there. No, it's not going to happen, So
don't you. And I think that also says something my way.
I think that says that Republicans are worried now that
(19:33):
if this economic message plays out as it played out
this year, plays out next year, they could lose the Senate,
which is not something I wake up in the morning
and think that's one hundred percent possibility. But if they
are in a position where they could lose the Senate,
if they are in a position where they where they
are are much more constrained about what they say and
do because they think they might lose the Senate. They
(19:54):
are going to show more resistance, even if it's kind
of passive resistance to Trump is saying, because when he
comes out and says in the filibuster, that's not like
a simple task for them, that's not like a that's
not like a trivial task for them. That's a gigantic
institution reshaping objective. And part of their fear about this
(20:17):
is that if they make this move, if they make
this play and decide, okay, we're going to get rid
of the philibuster, and the Democrats win the Senate back
next year, they have no filibuster. The tide of the
world ebbs and flows, molly and not. Everything for the
last ten years has felt like it's going in the
way of the good guys. But right now, you know,
(20:38):
we need to go back and look at the examples.
When Trump's on the ballot, he pulls out those unlikely voters.
When he's not twenty eighteen, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty five,
things ain't good.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I want to go to the tariffs for a minute,
because the next day we see the Supreme Court, they
have been just so fucking craven at every point. They're
enabling this food stamp fight. Like how hard is that?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Now? I will say I had a lawyer, a very
smart lawyer, tell me any way she did that is
the only way she could do it could and keep
future cases alive. I understood, Like because I had the
same reaction, I was like, the fuck is this?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Nobody is criticizing Koateenjie Brown's Brown Jackson because we know
that she had to do and also she's in the minority.
Like the liberal justices are just doing as much as
they can.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
But they're they're just they're just trying to get by.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, but the but that Wednesday tariff case where we
saw gorsicch and am Justice Amy starting to push back like,
you know, maybe we don't want to ruin ourselves.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Did you notice how how unusual it felt to hear
justices on pretty much opposite size of these equations making
the same lines of questioning to the to the Solicitor General.
I mean when I when I when I'm hearing Amy, Komy,
Barrett and Neil Gore, SIT's sounding like Katanji Brown Jackson
(22:02):
in an argument about the legality of taxation through tariffs,
I'm like, what world is this? May I have more
of this?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Please?
Speaker 1 (22:10):
And you know, I mean, what's so important about trump Ism?
And what I always I think is like you have
to remember is like this is a fucking paper tiger. Right,
you push back at all and the whole thing falls apart. Right,
And even when you saw those you know, when these
when the justices were finally like, well, isn't that taxation?
And then the Admin was like, well, there's there's a regulatory.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
There's a regulatory fees that somehow are like taxes but
not now.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's the Bawl and Green massacre.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Right, it's alternative facts. There's this idea among Republicans that
the obedience to Trump is and always will be absolute,
and that everybody plays by that rule. And I you know,
I think as a as a general principle that has
been correct at a moment we're in right now, where
we see the court finally step up and do something
(23:03):
that doesn't feel like full capitulation to Trump.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
It's kind of remarkable, But it's also the Marjorie Taylor
Green question, right, Like, nobody here is a good person
but some of these people are seeing a political opportunity.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, if you look at Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, Marjor
Taylor Green, a handful of others who ran Paul even,
who were like bringing these critiques of trump Ism now
into the forefront at the risk of being yelled at
by Trump or treated at by Trump, or Laura Lumer
(23:38):
going after going through their garbage.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Lumreed, it's called lumered.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
That moment we're in, I think I find it kind
of fascinating because we didn't believe that that that was
possible two years ago for people to be so consistent
and never an unfailingly loyal to him. Yeah, it is
breaking around the edges. Trumpism is still incredibly dangerous, and
(24:04):
there's a big movement of these billionaire a holes around
trump Ism that make whatever its successor virus is incredibly dangerous.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, but guys, he falls asleep in the chair multiple times.
Rick Wilson, will you come backck you Molly?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Absolutely, you know I will.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Rebecca Cats and Morris Cats are both political strategists at
the Fight Agency. Rebecca Cats Morris Cats no relation. Both
you guys are from the Fight Agency, which has birthed
many progressive candidates. But Morris, I want you to talk
about how you got involved in the mayor's race.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I got involved in the mayor's race about a year
and a half ago. Now, in April of twenty twenty four.
We're in the midst of kind of the twenty four
cycle working on and I was working Damn Osborne's raised
Rebecca's working on in Rubin Diego, and that I'd heard
rumors that Zorn was considering Iran. Did not know him
personally at all, and even like politically, it was just
(25:07):
kind of vaguely aware of him and was initially relatively skeptical,
but then he had, you know, someone put us on
our tech star together. He asked to have coffee, and
I was like, I'm not going to say no to him,
and sat down and within like two minutes it was
it was like I love at first sight, kind of
kind of experienced fuickly, kind of taken by him.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
What made you think this guy is a candidate that
can win.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
The first thing he talked about was, at the time,
a lot of public polling had public safety as the
top issue, and he had this kind of theory that
what that was was not a reflection of voters not
caring about the affordability crisis, but it was a reflection
of voters having given up on government's ability to do
something to address that affordability crisis, and that you could
(25:53):
run a campaign clearly oriented around addressing that crisis, with
clear and digestible ideas about how to do so, and
with a kind of broader narrative of that it's government's
responsibility to address this.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That you could break through.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
And there was such a kind of strong, unique take
and also was struck by and I think this is
something that kind of New Yorkers were struck by the
last year. His sincerity, his ability to listen, his presence,
which is just, you know, all all too uncommon among
people who run for office. And I walked out of
a meeting and him like, you know, I came in
skeptical and I'm all in. And that was forty five
(26:30):
minute meeting. And we have a year and a half
to make that case to New Yorkers.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
And Mollie, you and I have talked a lot about
like how old democratic elected officials are, but we've never
really talked about how old the consulting class is around them. Right,
And one of the interesting things here is Morris called
me very soon after he met was Ron and said,
you know, you got to meet with him. He's incredible.
And I'm like, what what are you talking? Like? No,
(26:55):
you know, like I don't. I was busy trying to
win Arizona. I'm like, yet, you know the democratic So
like we got we have to focus on the big stuff.
But you know, I am over two decades older than Morris,
and but we are. We are partners at the same
at fight agency together and he he saw it and
then he helped us see it, do you know what
(27:15):
I mean? And I think if we're gonna win the future,
we have to be a little bit curious about the
kind of candidates and campaigns that are different, and we
haven't seen that in a while. So, like I have
said that, Zorn and Morris are kind of each other's
muses in a way that they feed off each other
and they have big, kind of fun ideas and we
need more of that in democratic politics. So it's been
(27:35):
really fun.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
You know what's so interesting is because we're thinking, we're
talking about Ruben, and like, Ruben is young the way
we're young. Right, He's in his forties, and I'll take
it right exactly. And I think they're both very young,
We're very young. But what I think is interesting and
this actually gets to something that so I was doing
this event and very smart CNN and was saying that
(28:01):
she had she team taught a class at a at
a politics institute and she had a student bring in.
She had the students bring in their favorite ads of
the cycle. And these two students brought in this Soorian
ad and they were like, this is the greatest ad ever.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
Which one was it?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I'm curious, I have no idea. They played it and
she was like, this ad is the worst thing I've
ever seen. And wait, it gets better. And she realized
the ad wasn't for her, it was for people in
their twenties, and that she just couldn't get it because
and she had this whole theory that what Zorian had
done was go first to the people in their twenties
(28:40):
and then go up. Is that true?
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Discuss Yeah, it's absolutely kind of was a We knew
that that would always be the path, was establishing a
strong base of youth support and kind of building up
from there once you cleared the viability threshold, which could
be reached. By building that base of support, then you
had other people to start taking a lot And I think,
particularly in the primary, there's always this kind of belief
that if we could get to the place where people
(29:05):
started us to think we were the alternative to Andrew Cmo,
then we could get a serious look and then people
would start to engage with Zorn as he actually is,
not as the kind of New York Posts or Andrew
Coma would want to make him out to be. And
I think there's also just this element of so often
in politics we kind of talk about and dismissed the
ideas of young people showing up to vote or turning
(29:26):
out new voters, and we overemphasize the kind of everything
becomes a focus on persuading like seven you know, suburban
homeowners in the Philadelphia and there's no imagination of what's
possible and if you actually invest in make a real effort.
In so much the way when we talk about turning
out young people want talk about running out immigrant communities.
(29:47):
A lot of the same people showed up on Tuesday
for Zoran. It's an afterthought in the election. It's like, Hey,
the elections in three weeks, let's go do a goot
event with some young person, and that's not the actual
way to do it. And what we were do is
by starting early, building a real sense of community where
young people saw themselves in this campaign, they sawt ownership
of it, and that was able to grow and extend.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
And I think Zoron was for zoomers what Obama was
for millennials, you know what I mean, Like there was
there was a candidate there who was offering actual hope
and excitement, and it was there was this feeling of
community out on the campaign trail. And you got to
understand the Cuomo campaign had so much hate and xenophone
like it was just you would every time you turned
on the TV, it was just like pictures of the
(30:30):
Twin Towers and the word jihad, and then they would
say Zorn is hijacking the party like it was ugly
at possible shit. And Zoran was out there saying let's
go do a scavenger hunt, everybody, let's go have fun,
and people felt that, you know what I mean, it
was exciting.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Rebecca. I want you to go on the consultant class
for another minute, because before this I was talking to
Tim Walls and I wore buddies. And you know, all
I want out of the twenty four cycle is for
that crew to admit that the consultant class completely screwed
them up every which way. I haven't gotten it yet,
but I think that well, but explain to us what
(31:09):
it is that the consultant class is doing to the
Democratic Party and why it and just why you sort
of how why, et cetera.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
I mean, there is there's this apprehension to take risks
right that, and I think playing it safe is probably
the riskiest thing we could do right now. Right like
we are, we have we are fighting on so many levels,
like we are fighting the most horrible things. I got
into politics because I was a political junkie. Right, it
was supposed to be fun. Some of the stuff is
(31:39):
not fun anymore. Like it is it is It is
like the future of the party, like the weight on
your shoulders and the countually. Yeah, no, it's it's of course,
it's very it's it's a lot. And I think there
is just this willingness to go for some of these
bland candidates because they're not going to rock the boat
and they're not going to offend anybody, and so like
(32:01):
given the choice between the worst possible extreme Republican and
like a milk toast Democrat. The Democratic powers that they
are just say like, let's let's give a milk toast, right,
And I think we're saying, you got to give people
something to vote for. You've got to give people a
reason to come out to to you know, to mobilize,
to knock on doors, to just feel something. And those
(32:24):
are the kind of candidates we like at fight like
those are. That's that's the people we like to vote
work for. You know, we like we need to get
up in the morning too and do our jobs right.
We want to do it for someone we believe in.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
I also think there's an issue of it to your point,
it's total lack of accountability among the consultant class of
there's just a real culture of failing off boards that
becomes you know, an excuse one even among like the
Quomo team of like you have people, do you know,
the same people responsible for covering up nursing home deaths
and intimidating victims of sexual harassment are then welcome back
(32:58):
into the party to run a camp pain for mayor
And there's no accountability. And I think it's you know,
reads this kind of corruption and incompetence that then the
average voter is looking at and it feels icky. It
doesn't pass the smell test. It feels like it's coming
from you know, sleazy human beings. And there should be
we should hold the consulting class to the same standards
(33:19):
we hold other public officials too. Of you know, there
should be ethical standards. They should be in this for
the right reasons, and there's just a real absence of
that right now.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I actually had the experience of having a consultant who
did both those things introduce herself to me, and I'm
thinking to myself, but you know, I've read a book,
so I know who you are. You know, we never
met a person, and I said, yes, we have not.
I think that's really important. I also want you to
sort of debunk conventional wisdom. I think you both should
(33:50):
weigh in on this. There is a feeling I think
it's very destructive in the party of like Dorian's going
to hurt you know, Michigan's Senate candidates, or he's gonna
so talk us through the id.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
The worst thing that we can do as a party
is kind of let like twists in the wind and
try and like be distant and just say he doesn't
speak for me, Like we look weak. What we saw
from Chuck Schumer of the many many months of hemming
and hung and having conversations with Zoron and never making
and endorsement in the.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Right but was happy to afort endorse Eric Adams.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Right, what I'm saying is like we look weak. We
are allowed like Ruben Diego one, you know, over performed
in Arizona one by overperformed Harris by eight points and
it's a red state now, and he still said, you know,
Zoraman done. He was focused on affordability, Like we can
all agree that we should maybe focus more on coming costs.
That's not a hard argument to make, and yet Democratic
(34:51):
leaders refuse to do that. And then just got asked
that every single press conference, are you gonna endorse zor
On yet? Like they it's like comms one oh one,
totally right. We can do better, just be stronger. It
is good for all Democrats if the mayor of New
York succeeds and being a good mayor, and we should
all be invested in that, Like why is that so hard?
(35:12):
Helping people should not be so hard? It should not
be controversial.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
It's this kind of bullshit like fallacy of the big
tent party and look in by the big like the
way so many elected Democrats and how the Democratic establishment
uses the term big tent party. Is really what they're
saying is we can have as big a tent as
is needed for cowardice if you're not answer questions, if
you're going to take money from corporations and lobbyists and
(35:37):
apac anyone is allowed. But if it's actually about taking
courageous stands, suddenly we're going to shrink that tent. It's
like we need a party big enough for Zaron Lomdani
and for Jared Golden, but we all of these people
who are just keeping seats warming Congress. And I think
it's the issue that extends even beyond Zoran is these
people who claim to want to win at any expense
(35:57):
actually could give less of a shit about winning. They
care about is holding on to power. Because when you
look at actual polling, we see poll after poll tells
us Bernie Sanders is the most popular Democrat in the country.
We see it in swing stats. Then you get on
these calls, you know, with other consultants or you hear
the way people in leadership talk about him, and it's like, there,
he's a leech on the party.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
It was like, no, he's the.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Most popular person. Same thing with AOC, same thing goes on.
You know who the least popular Democrat in the country is,
Chuck Schumer? Why are suddenly scared of Bernie Sanders campaigning
around when people like him, he brings out huge crowds,
and we act like he's the embarrassed And then when
Chuck Schumer has like a favorability rating that I could
count on my fingers, it's a joke.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Do you then?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I want you to also talk about veep speech. So
I have this theory that one of the great crimes
of Obama, I'm gonna this is a whole theory, is.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
That he don't get us in trouble here.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Mine it was that he was such a good and
compelling speaker that whatever he said made sense, So we
could say anything and it was it made sense, it
was good, it was smart. And then Democrats were like, well,
we can all do that. And so what you had
was you had a lot of people pretending to be him,
but the problem was just because you imitated him didn't
(37:12):
mean you were as good as speaker as he was.
And so what you would find is you'd find sort
of that would get more and more removed from actual speak,
you know, actual speaking into sort of a non speaking speaking,
and that gets us to a sort of veep speak.
And we saw that. We've seen that again and again
and again. And I'm talking about Viep the show like
(37:35):
you know where you just it's a Merara ka and
you know you have the mayor and the ka and
you put them together and it just you're just full of.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Bustering demo guys haven't put any emphasis on actually having
good messengers or a good message, right, Like what Zoramandami
had done so well is he was able to able
to communicate a really compelling message and then stay on
message and talk about a city you can afford every
single day of the campaign, right. And normally Democrats get
(38:04):
criticized on something and they completely change their approach because
like forbid, they get criticism. And Zorn just kept building
and building and building, and he was he's so compelling.
He's compelling in a room, he's compelling, you know when
he's on your phone on TV, like he is he
can't just he's good at it, but he's also saying
something substantive. And somewhere along the way, we forgot how
(38:27):
to be substantive. Right, We just had these like poll
tested like things that just like don't mean anything, you know,
like it just like we just have to be better
than that. We have to we have to have empathy
and compassion and like we have to feel something. You know,
what we were able to do in Arizona last cycle
with Reuben Diego it was because he like he gave
a shit, right, and people see that.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
So many politicians have started to just play punnit. Yeah,
like when you talk, what they're doing is analyzing politics, right,
like as if they don't have an active role to
and you know, but they're like, well, there is an
affordability crisis. And it's like it's not enough to just
say there's an affordability crisis. What are you person who's
in an actual position of power going to do about
the affordability crisis? And also are you willing to name
(39:13):
an enemy? Maybe's not happening by accident, and people aren't
stupid and you can't tell someone, hey, you're being fucked,
but I'm not going to tell you who's fucking you
doesn't really work, and so much of that is like
the way these politicians will talk about It's like there's
an affordability crisis. Things aren't good and they should be better.
It's like, well, I need a little bit more than that.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Rebecca Katz and Morris Katz. My next question for you
is a question that I get all the time because
I'm Jewish, and I'm going to tell you I take
no pleasure to report I'm fancy. And so all my
friends are mad at me because they know that Zorin.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
So we tell you about our friends.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
They know that Zorin is anti Semitic. So I said, well,
how is he anti Semitic? No, he is, Well, how
we just know because of global izantifix So I said, well,
he didn't say that. It was debunked, and actually Kristin
Jilibrien had to apologize when she said she did. She did.
So I said, well, so what other anti No, I
just know he's anti Semitic. Well, how do you know
(40:14):
he's anti Semitic? Because I know what that.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
I think there's an interesting lesson here that oftentimes when
we look at the kind of misinformation that has become
so prevalent on the right and the way many of
the same people will talk about, you know, the cousin
who's a maga person or something right like, oh, well,
they're just not getting the truth. They're just hearing the
Fox News talking points. They're looking at Bribert. And I
think in many ways we saw that take place in
(40:40):
this mayor's race, where there was just a totally distorted,
disconnected from reality version of z On that was being
portrayed to a lot of people. And I think he
handled it with integrity and grace throughout the entirety of
the campaign. And I also think that there's a general
issue in the way that kind of the issue of
Israel plays out in these races, where and then kind
(41:02):
of the social media culture where you know, Zoron held
his total of zero press conferences around the issue of Israel,
but inherently then he's asked about it, he answers it,
it's clipped, and then you have people be like, well,
why is he talking about Israel all the time, And
it kind of creates this echo chamber that's really being
constructed by the media, constructed by these fears that are
(41:23):
coming from bad faith actors. And again, part of the
reason that I think, like, you know, Andrew Cuomo should
be you know, banished from ever being in the political
realm ever again is he ran an entire campaign for
a year with the sole goal of fear mongering and
dividing the city. And he pushed this work. He put
it out relentlessly.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
Say Malia didn't work because you know, over a million
people came together and voted for Zoram on day, and
many of them Jewish voters who rejected being called anti
Semitic or yeah it was people saw right through it,
and that should be a lesson to all future candidates
to like, stop trying the ship because it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
It worked some places, it didn't work on.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
Am I working your neighbor. What I'm saying is, yet,
I do think there's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
My husband and I we looked for the map and
we were like, we gotta move. Really, this is not
come to Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
The water's warm, like, come on over. But I just,
I mean, I do think it is unfortunate that so
many Jewish voters really believe the worst of him when
we know him to be a lovely man who cares
deep and it's hard to keep being like even you know,
like from friends, like getting like some pretty vile like
(42:36):
he he must hate me, and I'm like, he actually
loves everybody, like he's he's pretty cool. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
And the joke is the people who I knew, who
knew him from growing up, from going to Bank Street,
were like, he's the greatest ever, Like we love him.
He's adorable, like we knew him, you know. And that
was the but you know again, like that yes, they
I mean they tried.
Speaker 5 (43:02):
To utter him, Molly, they really did. And he's a kid,
He's a New York City kid. He went to wrong Science,
Like what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Like what do we do well?
Speaker 4 (43:11):
It's an opportunity for some reflection of the city of
I think it's it's a reality that we treat Islamophobia
differently than we treat other forms of racism. That there's
a far more leeway for islampophobia and acceptance of it
and the kind of mainstream dialogue of our city, even
in our party, than there is for any similar form
of racism. And I think that hopefully it's a Rebecca's
(43:34):
point like that was overwhelmingly rejected by the voters of
New York, and I think can be a nice turning
page for the city of that There's not room for
that anymore.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
I kept you guys too long, though. I'm really glad
we talked about this, because this is like the fact
that somehow Islamophobia is still okay. I mean, as a Jew,
I'm just like you guys, it's the same as anti Semitism.
Speaker 5 (43:58):
It's not any I will say when spoke out about
it after all the attacks and he did a space
and he talked about Islamophobia, he got hit for that,
But I will say a lot of people felt seen
in his remarks, like he stood up for a lot
of people who have never had anyone stand up for
them before.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Just one last question, what do you guys watch it?
You got were coming up on twenty twenty six? Do
you have are you what are you seeing? Just vibes? Whatever, candidates,
whatever you want to say, just two seconds.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Well, Graham, Plattner and Maine. I think is a really
really exciting candidate who's some of his are om and
just in the sense of what he's bringing out of
keep with seeing people who've been on the sidelines of
politics showing up excited, believing again. I think Nathan Sage
and Iowa someone who's you know, not a politician, someone
who's able to bring in people who haven't been a
(44:45):
part of it, someone who understands how broken the status
quo is. And there are a number of different house
races across the country. Randy Vaios, Paige Trognetti, Bob Brooks's
people who just understand what's wrong with Washington. They can
credibly take on a broken status quo. I think that's
going to really break through in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
And I would add to the list. Abdulla El sayed
out and Michigan is saying a lot of really great things.
It's time to get a doctor in the Senate who
can actually throw down against RFK Junior. So we'll see.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Thanks you guys, They're no no moment full time. Rick Wilson,
Mama drunk fast?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Is it that time?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
It is the time? It's the top of times. What
is your moment of fuck right?
Speaker 3 (45:28):
My moment of fuckery today is that Sean Duffy, without
seeming to have any self awareness, alls like well, ten
to fifteen air traffic controllers are retiring every day. Why
would that be, Sean, can you stretch that big brain
ears their son to try to figure out why that's happening.
Oh wait, it's because they've been working without salaries for
a month in the most stressful, conceivable work you can imagine,
(45:50):
where there lives of hundreds of people or thousands of
people every day are in their hands. You don't want
to pay them, so you think they're stressed out for
no reason? Is that what it is? He has become,
to my mind, an exemplar of the sort of low
end shittiness of this administration because you know, here's a
reality TV star. He's going to be good on TV.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Uh huh, Okay, he's honestly the case against white men,
right Like, what is the I mean, these guys they
are not sending their best.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
I was told that they are not sending their best.
That is a fact, right there.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
No. Look, you know, Sean Duffy, whenever we talk about
the shutdowns in FOREMA, remember that the brave men and
women of ICE, and I mean that meant to be
ironically at all parts those guys are still making money.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
If you're an ICE member, you are still getting paid, and.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Your student loans are still forgiven.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Yeah, and their student loans are forgiven as we record this.
I don't know when the shutdown is going to end,
but at some point the pressure on the Republicans will
reach a level they can't breach anymore, and I hope
it's soon, because there are people like these air traffic
controller folks who do a thankless fucking job, a hard
and thingless job, who should be paid for the work
they do, as should, as should all Americans as a rule.
(47:05):
Thank you, You're welcome. As always, that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
For this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,
Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics
make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
Thanks for listening.
Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
today's best minds and Republican congressman who actually was a
Democrat until pretty recently. Jeff Andrew says, We're going to
get killed in the midterms. Time to switch back, little buddy.
We have such a great show for you today. The
(00:22):
Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson joins us to talk about
Donald Trump's failures in the messaging wars. Then we'll talk
to The Fight Agency's own Rebecca and Morris Kats no
relation about how Democrats can continue to win going into
(00:43):
the midterms. But first the news.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Smiley Trump is promising a two thousand dollars tariff dividend
as the Scooter's decision looms, Adam Schiff says, the same happening.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Yeah, I think Trump understands that he's in it right,
that people that he's not popular, that the polling is bad,
that the East Wing, that those optics of him destroying
the East Wing are not helping him, and so he's
just like tweeting a lot of shit. It's not tweeting,
it's truth thing. He's truth thing on his truth social
(01:15):
and so you see him, if you look at them
all together, they're increasingly erratic and crazy. Trump see him
like the lizard brain going back and here he is
saying that maybe he'll pay a two thousand dollars dividend
to most Americans out of the billions raised in tariffs
this year. Okay, he doesn't have the authority to do this.
He probably doesn't have the authority to do the tariffs
(01:37):
in the first place. You could just instead of paying people.
And again, this is like the Donald Trump post pandemic stuff, right,
like he's going to do Trump checks with Trump dollars.
Except what I don't think Donald Trump understands is he's
made everything more expensive with the tariff. So now the
idea that he's going to give people a check, it's
just completely nonsensical. But more important, besides just being nonsensical,
(02:02):
it is also just like he's panicking. And this sort
of panicky stuff is you know, they're just throwing everything
on the wall to see what might help his popularity,
and none of it is going to work. And it's
a little bit fun to watch.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
It really does feel like a lot of this is
that usual thing of that when he knows he's losing something.
You just see tons and tons of stupid shit, which
is why we're discussing that fat people quote unquote are
not going to be allowed to get visas and come
to America.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
First of all, I think the theory here is that
this is new State Department guidance encourages embassies and consulates
to deny visas to Americans with obesity or other health issues. Now,
there are countries that do this, and one of them
is Canada. Right, Like, if you want to become a
Canadian citizen, it's harder if you're older, it's harder if
you have health problems. You know why that is because
(02:57):
Canada has state healthcare. So if you become a Canadian
citizen and you go to the hospital, they have to
treat you. Now, America, we don't have that, right. In fact,
we you know, we have Obamacare. We have something so
that you don't just die twenty years ago, you just died,
or you went to the emergency room and then they
sent you home with a bill for forty thousand dollars.
(03:19):
But we don't have free health care. So the idea
that somehow these people will get visas and then we'll
get free health care. Like it's putting a lot of
stupid in there. But the other thing is like, we
are not we just are not offering a lot of
visas to people, period. And so these are just making
something that's not really happening that much harder. Even so,
(03:42):
I'm not surprised by this. And again, remember this administration
is all stick right, it's no care. Like at every
point they're like, oh, what would be unpleasant for people? Oh,
I know, let's ban fat people. And remember that on Friday,
when Donald Trump kept falling asleep in the Oval office
and doctor Meminaz kept talking about dementia, which was just
(04:05):
an odd coincidence, he was there to announce his fat
shot deal. I swear to god, fat shot deal got
your pharmaceutical company is to lower the cost the popular
with drugs o Zepeg and Zeppbam to about one hundred
and fifty dollars a month. They currently cost a little
bit more than twice that. So Trump took that announcement
to reveal that Stephen Chung was taking the drug. Because
(04:31):
if you know Donald Trump, you know that everything is copying.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
I mean, he really loves to embarrass a fat guy.
Despite he loves.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
To embarrass anyone I.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Know, but particularly I've always said he loves like a
big goombay energy. He really really loves to rub it
in people's faces and stick their face. And that moment
was something that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So, in other ridiculous things, Todd Blinch no friend of
the show whatsoever.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
Speak for yourself.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Hell yeah, I'm sure he's DOJ's number two, and he
is framing the legal battles. The Trump administration is in
as war on judges at rogue activist judges, and he
wants young lawyers to join the fight.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, Todd Blanche. You'll remember Todd Blanch from going to
visit Gallaine Maxwell and jail and then moving her to
a nicer prison camp facility. I don't think Todd Blanche
is doing so great. This is sort of pretty stupid crap.
And you know, I think, you know, he's young lawyers
(05:34):
to join the administration's war. I mean, I guess maybe
if they offer them sneakers. Most of these people go
to law school to either because they want to do
what's right or because they want to make money, And
what Todd Branch is doing here is offering them jobs
in the federal government, which are like things that if
you want to make money, you're not going to do,
(05:55):
and if you want to do what's right, you're probably
not going to go work for Trump. And I think
this is a binary that's exploring. Here's what he says, Todd.
And remember he's at the Federalist Society conference, so he
needs you know, he's looking for another Alito, another Thomas.
He's trying to find someone who has the fortitude of
a Greg Guttfeld and the intellect too. We need you
(06:15):
because it is a war and it's something we will
not win unless we keep on fighting. Sure, Todd, Sure,
there is.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Some concern that Maryland may not do the redistricting that
California plans to do, and it looks like Governor Wes
Moore has dispelled any doubts that Maryland may go ahead
with this.
Speaker 3 (06:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I mean, look, the real question is why is New
York not doing redistricting. I understand that it'll be a
longer timetable. Why doesn't Governor hokel have that as a
sort of damnicle is like saying, you know, look, if
you start redistricting, we start redistricting. I don't understand why
every blue state governor is not. Like all over the
redistricting battle, Like, you know, what Gavin Newsom did was
(06:57):
incredible and you know, you may not love him politically,
but like he put together a special election in three months,
raised millions of dollars to do it, and he won,
and like in the end, he showed Republicans that they
can't cheat to win, and that is real. Rick Wilson
(07:17):
is the founder of the Lincoln Project and the host
of the Enemy's List. Welcome back two fast politics for Wilson,
Molly John Fast.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
That's always a delight to be with you.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
I delight to be with you. So Trump first administration
ever to fuck with snap benefits, longest shut down ever
heading into Thanksgiving. My man just got a show lacking
in the twenty five election cycle. And the administration has
come out of it with the decision to try to
what prosecute states for trying to fill snap benefits on
(07:50):
their own.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Pretty much the message today has been don't feed those
starving people that were starving. I mean, and I think
it is. I think it is pretty remarkable. How how yeah,
that's exactly right. My one was good too. I think
it's pretty remarkable how we're leaving off the word children. Yeah,
this because the majority of the people that are receiving
(08:12):
these benefits, the benefits go to their kids. If you
watch Fox, you think these people are all buying you know,
it's all like they're buying lottery tickets and mental cigarettes.
Because we're so subtle here at Fox. You know, it's
just such a racist dog whistle. But a lot of
people that are getting this are Trump supporters, Red states,
Red states, Red congressional disters and their kids.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
White people in Red state, White.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
White people in Red states.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
I'm gonna make you be old Rick Wilson, the one
you're tweeted about how sad you were about Dick Cheney dying.
We love you and we know that you worked with him,
and it's different when you're friends with someone. But what
are the sort of what's the political calculus on fucking
with food stamps? I mean, is that like it's this.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Is something that gives Russell Vaught a heart on and so, but.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You do have to theoretically at least win elections.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Hypothetically, But you know, they also look at elections as
sort of more optional than they used to be. But
in the case of Snap benefits, there is a.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Twofold gift looking up some data for me.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Not I'm actually not, but the Snap benefits problem is
twofold for them. One, there's a racist dog whistle. They
need to get the Trump base back in line, Okay,
even though most of the people receiving SNAP are not minorities,
not illegal immigrants, because they don't get SNAP just so
everybody knows. They need something to juice the Trump base backup,
because even with his base, Trump's numbers are down. The
(09:40):
second part of this is there is a exercise of
presidential authority argument being made by Russ Vott, Stephen Miller,
those guys inside the White House that holding the line
on this and saying that the president gets to control
all aspects of this is one more of their presidential
you know, plenary powers of the president that cannot be
gainsaid and that the law doesn't matter what it says,
(10:01):
the President's will override the law.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Let's talk this through, you know, government longest shut down ever? Right? Yeah,
I mean there are certain like facts about trump Ism
that I feel like we just don't repeat enough, Like
this man is the oldest person to ever have become president, yes,
so on Friday when he kept falling asleep during things.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Which was I thought quite special.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
I mean, did you were you waiting for the CNN
package on that, I mean, did you want to?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
You know, I was told by a number of people
that any infirmity, slowness of wit, any alteration from the
patterns of a healthy fifty year old deserved immediate, consistent,
ongoing critical media concern at every second for the rest
of their presidency. But apparently that rule was, you know,
(10:57):
is now one of those like more in the more
in the in the breach than the observance.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
So what do you think the game here is? Like,
clearly Republicans did if even if they're saying, even if
they're not saying it to be true, they definitely saw
that Tuesday was fucking slacking for that.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Oh they know it. And by the way, by the way,
their own polsters are telling them, wake the fuck up,
their own polsters are telling them, this has been really
bad for you guys, because it has been. This has
been a very bad month and change for the Republican Party.
Because you know, the harm being done to poor people
(11:35):
is not the point. The harm being done to their
own base is the point, and there's been a lot
of harm done to their own base.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Trump has been insane and done insane stuff. Like it's
been a decade we've seen a lot of like him
where you're like, how does this work for anyone? But
with this, it feels more like he's actually just been
sort of like checked out and not focused.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Yeah, I was gonna a sort of a sort of
say if you felt the same way I did about this.
There has been a sort of he's like a passenger
right right now. And yes he wants to troll people
and talk and you know, do his usual tough guy act.
But there feels it feels a little different to me
right now that he has been much more, much more
(12:19):
just like yeah, well you know, Democrats, he'll read the
talking point, but there's not much there there, There's not much.
There's not much emotion to it.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Trump did a couple of weeks ago he was like
on this Nobel Peace Prize kick or he was going
to do all these.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Wars, Well, he's just going to give him one now,
and then.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
They put out the prize. He didn't get it. It
turns out you had. It's not just like you just
can't just like think about it and get it and
weird huh yeah, and then now we're in the shutdown,
he wants to get rid of the filibuster. I think
it's a little bit interesting and important. Like if we
look at last week, so Tuesday, is this a Mikey Cheryl,
(13:02):
this is a this is a race that I've covered,
so I'm really more sort of read in on it
went from uh, it was it was a D plus
six for Harris, a D plus thirteen, I think, yeah,
probably for Mikey, right twelve point eight. I think now she.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Did very well. She did very well. And look this
breakdown of fundamental voter behavior with these governor's races all
through with that through line of economics. Republicans had locked
that thing up with Trump for such a long time
of Oh, Trump's good on the economy, Trump's the economy.
President Trump's the guy who's going to make the economy
(13:42):
hum again. Those things are now gone because people know
he's not going to do anything for the economy. He's
not going to help people survive, he's not going to
help people prosper. He's helping his buddies. He's building a ballroom.
He gives zero fs about anybody else and anything else.
And so I I think that both Ryl and Spanberger,
(14:03):
they were so good, they were so on point about
sticking with affordability and jobs in the economy that they
really gave everybody, gave all the Democrats a path forward
that is much more terrifying to Republicans than if they
had said, oh, well, yeah, we will relitigate the culture
(14:24):
war with you one more time.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
It's funny to me because Glenn Youngkin, mister Reshnak, he
won Virginia by two points. Abigail Spanberger, she won Virginia
by fourteen plus. When Youngin won, everyone said he was
going to be president next.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
That's what I was told by many people, that Glenn
Youngkin was the inevitable next president. Somehow that has not
worked out. I will say this, The delta among the
numbers in Virginia was so enormous. The change level of votes,
including in very red parts of the state and very
rural counties of the state, was so enormous that I
(15:07):
spoke to one Republican polster on Friday night. I get
Friday morning, I guess, and he said, yeah, I'm so
having trouble believing the numbers and if I was like,
if I was like all my clients, I would tell
you it was a stolen election. But it wasn't. They
just beat our ass. And there is a little Republican
vibe space emerging of oh the election was stolen. Of
(15:28):
course it wasn't. But that tells you how badly they
got whipped, and how badly they know they got whipped.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
The Georgia numbers, so these are Georgia's state wide Public
Service Commission.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
We had two candidates R plus two. Ye swung to
a D plus twenty five.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
One of my big theories of this case is you
could never beat the culture war by fighting another culture war,
but you could beat the culture war by fighting an
economic war. And they had the same message of span
Berger and Cheryl and mom Donnie. Okay, to be fair, yeah, economics, economics, economics, families,
prosperity for individuals, taking care of people, the economic argument,
(16:13):
that's the underlying thing. It turned all the bullshit about
culture war stuff and trans issues like it turned them
actually into a into a negative for the Republicans, which
you know, call me crazy, but this is a they
were trying to play like you know, now, that's what
I call Culture War twenty twenty four edition. And it
just didn't work.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
You know. There were so many news cycles that were
like Democrats have lost Latino voters. They'd lost and they've
lost them. They've lost them, They've lost.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Right, it's all over, they're back. The phrasing that a
lot of people use that I think is exactly right
is Trump did not win those voters over. He just
rented them. He had them for a cycle, and a
lot of them were impacted by what was then the
Biden economy, with high inflation and high prices, high gas
price as well. Those high prices are still with them,
(17:03):
and they're family members, relatives, friends, are being rounded up
on the streets. They are not down with the ice
the ice capades, if you will. And so this whole
idea that his fans were permanently part of the Republican
coalition has really fallen apart. And the only caveat to
that that I would point out for our Democratic friends
(17:24):
is they did not come back to you over climate
change or abortion or gun control or any other portfolio issues.
They came back to you because of the economy and
the horrors that are being played out in our streets
right now. So those are things to keep in mind
when you're talking about how do you take that return
of this coalition and maximize it in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Right, That is true, and I think that's a really
important point. But also, but also you know, you don't
at the end of the day, you don't really know
why you get those voters.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
You have some knowledge of it from the exit polls,
you don't have You don't have amazing granularity on it though, honestly,
but we do know. We do know from a lot
of the exit polling, we do know from some of
the voter file research that we've been engaged in and
others have been engaged in. There's no powerful argument right
now on the Republican side that says, hey, you know what,
(18:18):
you should stick with us because we're going to make
things more affordable. They have failed to do that, and
we're going to stop rounding up your friends, family members, cousins,
and neighbors in the streets because they're not going to
stop doing that right now. And so I just I
feel like there's a moment here where Democrats, you know,
(18:39):
can say this thing worked, do more of this thing.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Right right right, No, for sure. Well, and also so
I just want to get through last week. So we
have this huge day, which is also good for people
care about democracy, and it feels like maybe we're going
to get out of this thing eventually. And then the
next day, Donald Trump gives Republican senators the tour of
(19:03):
his flattened East wing, some of the new gold lettering,
and also tells them they have to get rid of
the filmbuster.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
Discuss Look, well, the real telling point there is what happened.
The minute he said you have to get rid of
the filbuster. John Thune walked out the door, and within
minutes of leaving that meeting, they were telling reporters the
votes aren't there. No, it's not going to happen, So
don't you. And I think that also says something my way.
I think that says that Republicans are worried now that
(19:33):
if this economic message plays out as it played out
this year, plays out next year, they could lose the Senate,
which is not something I wake up in the morning
and think that's one hundred percent possibility. But if they
are in a position where they could lose the Senate,
if they are in a position where they where they
are are much more constrained about what they say and
do because they think they might lose the Senate. They
(19:54):
are going to show more resistance, even if it's kind
of passive resistance to Trump is saying, because when he
comes out and says in the filibuster, that's not like
a simple task for them, that's not like a that's
not like a trivial task for them. That's a gigantic
institution reshaping objective. And part of their fear about this
(20:17):
is that if they make this move, if they make
this play and decide, okay, we're going to get rid
of the philibuster, and the Democrats win the Senate back
next year, they have no filibuster. The tide of the
world ebbs and flows, molly and not. Everything for the
last ten years has felt like it's going in the
way of the good guys. But right now, you know,
(20:38):
we need to go back and look at the examples.
When Trump's on the ballot, he pulls out those unlikely voters.
When he's not twenty eighteen, twenty twenty two, twenty twenty five,
things ain't good.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
I want to go to the tariffs for a minute,
because the next day we see the Supreme Court, they
have been just so fucking craven at every point. They're
enabling this food stamp fight. Like how hard is that?
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Now? I will say I had a lawyer, a very
smart lawyer, tell me any way she did that is
the only way she could do it could and keep
future cases alive. I understood, Like because I had the
same reaction, I was like, the fuck is this?
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Nobody is criticizing Koateenjie Brown's Brown Jackson because we know
that she had to do and also she's in the minority.
Like the liberal justices are just doing as much as
they can.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
But they're they're just they're just trying to get by.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Yeah, but the but that Wednesday tariff case where we
saw gorsicch and am Justice Amy starting to push back like,
you know, maybe we don't want to ruin ourselves.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Did you notice how how unusual it felt to hear
justices on pretty much opposite size of these equations making
the same lines of questioning to the to the Solicitor General.
I mean when I when I when I'm hearing Amy, Komy,
Barrett and Neil Gore, SIT's sounding like Katanji Brown Jackson
(22:02):
in an argument about the legality of taxation through tariffs,
I'm like, what world is this? May I have more
of this?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
Please?
Speaker 1 (22:10):
And you know, I mean, what's so important about trump Ism?
And what I always I think is like you have
to remember is like this is a fucking paper tiger. Right,
you push back at all and the whole thing falls apart. Right,
And even when you saw those you know, when these
when the justices were finally like, well, isn't that taxation?
And then the Admin was like, well, there's there's a regulatory.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
There's a regulatory fees that somehow are like taxes but
not now.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
It's the Bawl and Green massacre.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Right, it's alternative facts. There's this idea among Republicans that
the obedience to Trump is and always will be absolute,
and that everybody plays by that rule. And I you know,
I think as a as a general principle that has
been correct at a moment we're in right now, where
we see the court finally step up and do something
(23:03):
that doesn't feel like full capitulation to Trump.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
It's kind of remarkable, But it's also the Marjorie Taylor
Green question, right, Like, nobody here is a good person
but some of these people are seeing a political opportunity.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Yeah, if you look at Josh Hawley, Tom Cotton, Marjor
Taylor Green, a handful of others who ran Paul even,
who were like bringing these critiques of trump Ism now
into the forefront at the risk of being yelled at
by Trump or treated at by Trump, or Laura Lumer
(23:38):
going after going through their garbage.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Lumreed, it's called lumered.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
That moment we're in, I think I find it kind
of fascinating because we didn't believe that that that was
possible two years ago for people to be so consistent
and never an unfailingly loyal to him. Yeah, it is
breaking around the edges. Trumpism is still incredibly dangerous, and
(24:04):
there's a big movement of these billionaire a holes around
trump Ism that make whatever its successor virus is incredibly dangerous.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
Yeah, but guys, he falls asleep in the chair multiple times.
Rick Wilson, will you come backck you Molly?
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Absolutely, you know I will.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Rebecca Cats and Morris Cats are both political strategists at
the Fight Agency. Rebecca Cats Morris Cats no relation. Both
you guys are from the Fight Agency, which has birthed
many progressive candidates. But Morris, I want you to talk
about how you got involved in the mayor's race.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
I got involved in the mayor's race about a year
and a half ago. Now, in April of twenty twenty four.
We're in the midst of kind of the twenty four
cycle working on and I was working Damn Osborne's raised
Rebecca's working on in Rubin Diego, and that I'd heard
rumors that Zorn was considering Iran. Did not know him
personally at all, and even like politically, it was just
(25:07):
kind of vaguely aware of him and was initially relatively skeptical,
but then he had, you know, someone put us on
our tech star together. He asked to have coffee, and
I was like, I'm not going to say no to him,
and sat down and within like two minutes it was
it was like I love at first sight, kind of
kind of experienced fuickly, kind of taken by him.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
What made you think this guy is a candidate that
can win.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
The first thing he talked about was, at the time,
a lot of public polling had public safety as the
top issue, and he had this kind of theory that
what that was was not a reflection of voters not
caring about the affordability crisis, but it was a reflection
of voters having given up on government's ability to do
something to address that affordability crisis, and that you could
(25:53):
run a campaign clearly oriented around addressing that crisis, with
clear and digestible ideas about how to do so, and
with a kind of broader narrative of that it's government's
responsibility to address this.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
That you could break through.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
And there was such a kind of strong, unique take
and also was struck by and I think this is
something that kind of New Yorkers were struck by the
last year. His sincerity, his ability to listen, his presence,
which is just, you know, all all too uncommon among
people who run for office. And I walked out of
a meeting and him like, you know, I came in
skeptical and I'm all in. And that was forty five
(26:30):
minute meeting. And we have a year and a half
to make that case to New Yorkers.
Speaker 5 (26:34):
And Mollie, you and I have talked a lot about
like how old democratic elected officials are, but we've never
really talked about how old the consulting class is around them. Right,
And one of the interesting things here is Morris called
me very soon after he met was Ron and said,
you know, you got to meet with him. He's incredible.
And I'm like, what what are you talking? Like? No,
(26:55):
you know, like I don't. I was busy trying to
win Arizona. I'm like, yet, you know the democratic So
like we got we have to focus on the big stuff.
But you know, I am over two decades older than Morris,
and but we are. We are partners at the same
at fight agency together and he he saw it and
then he helped us see it, do you know what
(27:15):
I mean? And I think if we're gonna win the future,
we have to be a little bit curious about the
kind of candidates and campaigns that are different, and we
haven't seen that in a while. So, like I have
said that, Zorn and Morris are kind of each other's
muses in a way that they feed off each other
and they have big, kind of fun ideas and we
need more of that in democratic politics. So it's been
(27:35):
really fun.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
You know what's so interesting is because we're thinking, we're
talking about Ruben, and like, Ruben is young the way
we're young. Right, He's in his forties, and I'll take
it right exactly. And I think they're both very young,
We're very young. But what I think is interesting and
this actually gets to something that so I was doing
this event and very smart CNN and was saying that
(28:01):
she had she team taught a class at a at
a politics institute and she had a student bring in.
She had the students bring in their favorite ads of
the cycle. And these two students brought in this Soorian
ad and they were like, this is the greatest ad ever.
Speaker 5 (28:16):
Which one was it?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I'm curious, I have no idea. They played it and
she was like, this ad is the worst thing I've
ever seen. And wait, it gets better. And she realized
the ad wasn't for her, it was for people in
their twenties, and that she just couldn't get it because
and she had this whole theory that what Zorian had
done was go first to the people in their twenties
(28:40):
and then go up. Is that true?
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Discuss Yeah, it's absolutely kind of was a We knew
that that would always be the path, was establishing a
strong base of youth support and kind of building up
from there once you cleared the viability threshold, which could
be reached. By building that base of support, then you
had other people to start taking a lot And I think,
particularly in the primary, there's always this kind of belief
that if we could get to the place where people
(29:05):
started us to think we were the alternative to Andrew Cmo,
then we could get a serious look and then people
would start to engage with Zorn as he actually is,
not as the kind of New York Posts or Andrew
Coma would want to make him out to be. And
I think there's also just this element of so often
in politics we kind of talk about and dismissed the
ideas of young people showing up to vote or turning
(29:26):
out new voters, and we overemphasize the kind of everything
becomes a focus on persuading like seven you know, suburban
homeowners in the Philadelphia and there's no imagination of what's
possible and if you actually invest in make a real effort.
In so much the way when we talk about turning
out young people want talk about running out immigrant communities.
(29:47):
A lot of the same people showed up on Tuesday
for Zoran. It's an afterthought in the election. It's like, Hey,
the elections in three weeks, let's go do a goot
event with some young person, and that's not the actual
way to do it. And what we were do is
by starting early, building a real sense of community where
young people saw themselves in this campaign, they sawt ownership
of it, and that was able to grow and extend.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
And I think Zoron was for zoomers what Obama was
for millennials, you know what I mean, Like there was
there was a candidate there who was offering actual hope
and excitement, and it was there was this feeling of
community out on the campaign trail. And you got to
understand the Cuomo campaign had so much hate and xenophone
like it was just you would every time you turned
on the TV, it was just like pictures of the
(30:30):
Twin Towers and the word jihad, and then they would
say Zorn is hijacking the party like it was ugly
at possible shit. And Zoran was out there saying let's
go do a scavenger hunt, everybody, let's go have fun,
and people felt that, you know what I mean, it
was exciting.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Rebecca. I want you to go on the consultant class
for another minute, because before this I was talking to
Tim Walls and I wore buddies. And you know, all
I want out of the twenty four cycle is for
that crew to admit that the consultant class completely screwed
them up every which way. I haven't gotten it yet,
but I think that well, but explain to us what
(31:09):
it is that the consultant class is doing to the
Democratic Party and why it and just why you sort
of how why, et cetera.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
I mean, there is there's this apprehension to take risks
right that, and I think playing it safe is probably
the riskiest thing we could do right now. Right like
we are, we have we are fighting on so many levels,
like we are fighting the most horrible things. I got
into politics because I was a political junkie. Right, it
was supposed to be fun. Some of the stuff is
(31:39):
not fun anymore. Like it is it is It is
like the future of the party, like the weight on
your shoulders and the countually. Yeah, no, it's it's of course,
it's very it's it's a lot. And I think there
is just this willingness to go for some of these
bland candidates because they're not going to rock the boat
and they're not going to offend anybody, and so like
(32:01):
given the choice between the worst possible extreme Republican and
like a milk toast Democrat. The Democratic powers that they
are just say like, let's let's give a milk toast, right,
And I think we're saying, you got to give people
something to vote for. You've got to give people a
reason to come out to to you know, to mobilize,
to knock on doors, to just feel something. And those
(32:24):
are the kind of candidates we like at fight like
those are. That's that's the people we like to vote
work for. You know, we like we need to get
up in the morning too and do our jobs right.
We want to do it for someone we believe in.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
I also think there's an issue of it to your point,
it's total lack of accountability among the consultant class of
there's just a real culture of failing off boards that
becomes you know, an excuse one even among like the
Quomo team of like you have people, do you know,
the same people responsible for covering up nursing home deaths
and intimidating victims of sexual harassment are then welcome back
(32:58):
into the party to run a camp pain for mayor
And there's no accountability. And I think it's you know,
reads this kind of corruption and incompetence that then the
average voter is looking at and it feels icky. It
doesn't pass the smell test. It feels like it's coming
from you know, sleazy human beings. And there should be
we should hold the consulting class to the same standards
(33:19):
we hold other public officials too. Of you know, there
should be ethical standards. They should be in this for
the right reasons, and there's just a real absence of
that right now.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I actually had the experience of having a consultant who
did both those things introduce herself to me, and I'm
thinking to myself, but you know, I've read a book,
so I know who you are. You know, we never
met a person, and I said, yes, we have not.
I think that's really important. I also want you to
sort of debunk conventional wisdom. I think you both should
(33:50):
weigh in on this. There is a feeling I think
it's very destructive in the party of like Dorian's going
to hurt you know, Michigan's Senate candidates, or he's gonna
so talk us through the id.
Speaker 5 (34:05):
The worst thing that we can do as a party
is kind of let like twists in the wind and
try and like be distant and just say he doesn't
speak for me, Like we look weak. What we saw
from Chuck Schumer of the many many months of hemming
and hung and having conversations with Zoron and never making
and endorsement in the.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Right but was happy to afort endorse Eric Adams.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Right, what I'm saying is like we look weak. We
are allowed like Ruben Diego one, you know, over performed
in Arizona one by overperformed Harris by eight points and
it's a red state now, and he still said, you know,
Zoraman done. He was focused on affordability, Like we can
all agree that we should maybe focus more on coming costs.
That's not a hard argument to make, and yet Democratic
(34:51):
leaders refuse to do that. And then just got asked
that every single press conference, are you gonna endorse zor
On yet? Like they it's like comms one oh one,
totally right. We can do better, just be stronger. It
is good for all Democrats if the mayor of New
York succeeds and being a good mayor, and we should
all be invested in that, Like why is that so hard?
(35:12):
Helping people should not be so hard? It should not
be controversial.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
It's this kind of bullshit like fallacy of the big
tent party and look in by the big like the
way so many elected Democrats and how the Democratic establishment
uses the term big tent party. Is really what they're
saying is we can have as big a tent as
is needed for cowardice if you're not answer questions, if
you're going to take money from corporations and lobbyists and
(35:37):
apac anyone is allowed. But if it's actually about taking
courageous stands, suddenly we're going to shrink that tent. It's
like we need a party big enough for Zaron Lomdani
and for Jared Golden, but we all of these people
who are just keeping seats warming Congress. And I think
it's the issue that extends even beyond Zoran is these
people who claim to want to win at any expense
(35:57):
actually could give less of a shit about winning. They
care about is holding on to power. Because when you
look at actual polling, we see poll after poll tells
us Bernie Sanders is the most popular Democrat in the country.
We see it in swing stats. Then you get on
these calls, you know, with other consultants or you hear
the way people in leadership talk about him, and it's like, there,
he's a leech on the party.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
It was like, no, he's the.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
Most popular person. Same thing with AOC, same thing goes on.
You know who the least popular Democrat in the country is,
Chuck Schumer? Why are suddenly scared of Bernie Sanders campaigning
around when people like him, he brings out huge crowds,
and we act like he's the embarrassed And then when
Chuck Schumer has like a favorability rating that I could
count on my fingers, it's a joke.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Do you then?
Speaker 1 (36:40):
I want you to also talk about veep speech. So
I have this theory that one of the great crimes
of Obama, I'm gonna this is a whole theory, is.
Speaker 5 (36:51):
That he don't get us in trouble here.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Mine it was that he was such a good and
compelling speaker that whatever he said made sense, So we
could say anything and it was it made sense, it
was good, it was smart. And then Democrats were like, well,
we can all do that. And so what you had
was you had a lot of people pretending to be him,
but the problem was just because you imitated him didn't
(37:12):
mean you were as good as speaker as he was.
And so what you would find is you'd find sort
of that would get more and more removed from actual speak,
you know, actual speaking into sort of a non speaking speaking,
and that gets us to a sort of veep speak.
And we saw that. We've seen that again and again
and again. And I'm talking about Viep the show like
(37:35):
you know where you just it's a Merara ka and
you know you have the mayor and the ka and
you put them together and it just you're just full of.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Bustering demo guys haven't put any emphasis on actually having
good messengers or a good message, right, Like what Zoramandami
had done so well is he was able to able
to communicate a really compelling message and then stay on
message and talk about a city you can afford every
single day of the campaign, right. And normally Democrats get
(38:04):
criticized on something and they completely change their approach because
like forbid, they get criticism. And Zorn just kept building
and building and building, and he was he's so compelling.
He's compelling in a room, he's compelling, you know when
he's on your phone on TV, like he is he
can't just he's good at it, but he's also saying
something substantive. And somewhere along the way, we forgot how
(38:27):
to be substantive. Right, We just had these like poll
tested like things that just like don't mean anything, you know,
like it just like we just have to be better
than that. We have to we have to have empathy
and compassion and like we have to feel something. You know,
what we were able to do in Arizona last cycle
with Reuben Diego it was because he like he gave
a shit, right, and people see that.
Speaker 4 (38:49):
So many politicians have started to just play punnit. Yeah,
like when you talk, what they're doing is analyzing politics, right,
like as if they don't have an active role to
and you know, but they're like, well, there is an
affordability crisis. And it's like it's not enough to just
say there's an affordability crisis. What are you person who's
in an actual position of power going to do about
the affordability crisis? And also are you willing to name
(39:13):
an enemy? Maybe's not happening by accident, and people aren't
stupid and you can't tell someone, hey, you're being fucked,
but I'm not going to tell you who's fucking you
doesn't really work, and so much of that is like
the way these politicians will talk about It's like there's
an affordability crisis. Things aren't good and they should be better.
It's like, well, I need a little bit more than that.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Rebecca Katz and Morris Katz. My next question for you
is a question that I get all the time because
I'm Jewish, and I'm going to tell you I take
no pleasure to report I'm fancy. And so all my
friends are mad at me because they know that Zorin.
Speaker 5 (39:50):
So we tell you about our friends.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
They know that Zorin is anti Semitic. So I said, well,
how is he anti Semitic? No, he is, Well, how
we just know because of global izantifix So I said, well,
he didn't say that. It was debunked, and actually Kristin
Jilibrien had to apologize when she said she did. She did.
So I said, well, so what other anti No, I
just know he's anti Semitic. Well, how do you know
(40:14):
he's anti Semitic? Because I know what that.
Speaker 4 (40:17):
I think there's an interesting lesson here that oftentimes when
we look at the kind of misinformation that has become
so prevalent on the right and the way many of
the same people will talk about, you know, the cousin
who's a maga person or something right like, oh, well,
they're just not getting the truth. They're just hearing the
Fox News talking points. They're looking at Bribert. And I
think in many ways we saw that take place in
(40:40):
this mayor's race, where there was just a totally distorted,
disconnected from reality version of z On that was being
portrayed to a lot of people. And I think he
handled it with integrity and grace throughout the entirety of
the campaign. And I also think that there's a general
issue in the way that kind of the issue of
Israel plays out in these races, where and then kind
(41:02):
of the social media culture where you know, Zoron held
his total of zero press conferences around the issue of Israel,
but inherently then he's asked about it, he answers it,
it's clipped, and then you have people be like, well,
why is he talking about Israel all the time, And
it kind of creates this echo chamber that's really being
constructed by the media, constructed by these fears that are
(41:23):
coming from bad faith actors. And again, part of the
reason that I think, like, you know, Andrew Cuomo should
be you know, banished from ever being in the political
realm ever again is he ran an entire campaign for
a year with the sole goal of fear mongering and
dividing the city. And he pushed this work. He put
it out relentlessly.
Speaker 5 (41:44):
Say Malia didn't work because you know, over a million
people came together and voted for Zoram on day, and
many of them Jewish voters who rejected being called anti
Semitic or yeah it was people saw right through it,
and that should be a lesson to all future candidates
to like, stop trying the ship because it doesn't work.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
It worked some places, it didn't work on.
Speaker 5 (42:06):
Am I working your neighbor. What I'm saying is, yet,
I do think there's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
My husband and I we looked for the map and
we were like, we gotta move. Really, this is not
come to Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
The water's warm, like, come on over. But I just,
I mean, I do think it is unfortunate that so
many Jewish voters really believe the worst of him when
we know him to be a lovely man who cares
deep and it's hard to keep being like even you know,
like from friends, like getting like some pretty vile like
(42:36):
he he must hate me, and I'm like, he actually
loves everybody, like he's he's pretty cool. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
And the joke is the people who I knew, who
knew him from growing up, from going to Bank Street,
were like, he's the greatest ever, Like we love him.
He's adorable, like we knew him, you know. And that
was the but you know again, like that yes, they
I mean they tried.
Speaker 5 (43:02):
To utter him, Molly, they really did. And he's a kid,
He's a New York City kid. He went to wrong Science,
Like what are we doing here?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Like what do we do well?
Speaker 4 (43:11):
It's an opportunity for some reflection of the city of
I think it's it's a reality that we treat Islamophobia
differently than we treat other forms of racism. That there's
a far more leeway for islampophobia and acceptance of it
and the kind of mainstream dialogue of our city, even
in our party, than there is for any similar form
of racism. And I think that hopefully it's a Rebecca's
(43:34):
point like that was overwhelmingly rejected by the voters of
New York, and I think can be a nice turning
page for the city of that There's not room for
that anymore.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
I kept you guys too long, though. I'm really glad
we talked about this, because this is like the fact
that somehow Islamophobia is still okay. I mean, as a Jew,
I'm just like you guys, it's the same as anti Semitism.
Speaker 5 (43:58):
It's not any I will say when spoke out about
it after all the attacks and he did a space
and he talked about Islamophobia, he got hit for that,
But I will say a lot of people felt seen
in his remarks, like he stood up for a lot
of people who have never had anyone stand up for
them before.
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Just one last question, what do you guys watch it?
You got were coming up on twenty twenty six? Do
you have are you what are you seeing? Just vibes? Whatever, candidates,
whatever you want to say, just two seconds.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Well, Graham, Plattner and Maine. I think is a really
really exciting candidate who's some of his are om and
just in the sense of what he's bringing out of
keep with seeing people who've been on the sidelines of
politics showing up excited, believing again. I think Nathan Sage
and Iowa someone who's you know, not a politician, someone
who's able to bring in people who haven't been a
(44:45):
part of it, someone who understands how broken the status
quo is. And there are a number of different house
races across the country. Randy Vaios, Paige Trognetti, Bob Brooks's
people who just understand what's wrong with Washington. They can
credibly take on a broken status quo. I think that's
going to really break through in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 5 (45:01):
And I would add to the list. Abdulla El sayed
out and Michigan is saying a lot of really great things.
It's time to get a doctor in the Senate who
can actually throw down against RFK Junior. So we'll see.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Thanks you guys, They're no no moment full time. Rick Wilson,
Mama drunk fast?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Is it that time?
Speaker 1 (45:24):
It is the time? It's the top of times. What
is your moment of fuck right?
Speaker 3 (45:28):
My moment of fuckery today is that Sean Duffy, without
seeming to have any self awareness, alls like well, ten
to fifteen air traffic controllers are retiring every day. Why
would that be, Sean, can you stretch that big brain
ears their son to try to figure out why that's happening.
Oh wait, it's because they've been working without salaries for
a month in the most stressful, conceivable work you can imagine,
(45:50):
where there lives of hundreds of people or thousands of
people every day are in their hands. You don't want
to pay them, so you think they're stressed out for
no reason? Is that what it is? He has become,
to my mind, an exemplar of the sort of low
end shittiness of this administration because you know, here's a
reality TV star. He's going to be good on TV.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Uh huh, Okay, he's honestly the case against white men,
right Like, what is the I mean, these guys they
are not sending their best.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
I was told that they are not sending their best.
That is a fact, right there.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
No. Look, you know, Sean Duffy, whenever we talk about
the shutdowns in FOREMA, remember that the brave men and
women of ICE, and I mean that meant to be
ironically at all parts those guys are still making money.
Speaker 3 (46:37):
If you're an ICE member, you are still getting paid, and.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Your student loans are still forgiven.
Speaker 3 (46:43):
Yeah, and their student loans are forgiven as we record this.
I don't know when the shutdown is going to end,
but at some point the pressure on the Republicans will
reach a level they can't breach anymore, and I hope
it's soon, because there are people like these air traffic
controller folks who do a thankless fucking job, a hard
and thingless job, who should be paid for the work
they do, as should, as should all Americans as a rule.
(47:05):
Thank you, You're welcome. As always, that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
For this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday,
Thursday and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics
make sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,
please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.
Thanks for listening.
Host
Molly Jong-Fast
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