November 25, 2025 • 35 mins
George is joined by Emmy-nominated singer-songwriter Julian King. Julian tells George about his approach to making music, how living in China transformed him and opening for Mary J Blige.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
For a long time, I blurred the lines as it
pertained to like pronouns of my music, trying to be universal.
But then I said, Okay, no, I'm gonna talk about
boys because that's what I like. And then the music
is just gonna be good enough that you're not gonna carry.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Julian King is an R and B singer, songwriter, pianist,
and dancer based in Philadelphia. Julian was nominated for an
Emmy in the Outstanding Daytime Special category for All Boys
Aren't Blues theme song.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Julian has also opened for Mary J.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Blige, reached over two million total streams, and sung background
vocals for John Legend.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I want my gay little sisters to listen to my music,
just as I like my older straight brother to listen
to my music.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
I like one of my trans friends that listen to
my music, just.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
How I like my older religious grandmother to listen to
my music. I want people to know that I see
them too, just like they see.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Me singing in them. Heavy handy to the world. Take
a super brandy spoken guy.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
You know what the plan is? Who became a Latin?
You know when to understand me.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
My name is George M. Johnson. I am the New
York Times bestselling.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Author of the book All Boys Aren't Blue, which is
the number one most challenged book in the United States.
This is Fighting Words, a show where we take you
to the front lines of the culture wars with the
people who are using their words to make change and
who refuse to be silenced.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Today's guest Julian King.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I am here with a good friend who I've known
for several years. Some of you may know him as
an R and B singer, songwriter, pianist, dancer based in Philadelphia.
Mister Julian King, how are you doing today?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
What's so? I'm doing good. I'm doing good.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I'm healing from laryn Chi, So I apologize if I
speak a little slow and a little low.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I always say our bios precede us. So we always
like for our guests to tell us a little bit
about themselves. With our first question, which is who is
Julian King?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I have a love hate relationship with this question because
it always feels so weird answering.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Julian King is.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
A guy who loves the art. He loves animals, and
he loves people. He is a singer, dancer, musician. During
the day, he teaches music to kids, Kate the eight.
He comes home and he records music for different clients.
He's also a wedding singer. He's also a humanitarian. He's
(02:49):
also community driven and he sees the world through art.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Through music. The color went through feeling that's beautif.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So beautiful, k through a What is that? Giving?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Is giving? Find another job?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
No, it truly like I don't have any kids, so
I feel like I get to get all of that,
Like ah outomy, it has its challenges.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
It's interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I love education before the pandemic, and after the pandemic
I came back, it's a very different landscape. The kid's
attention spans are pretty low, the abilities are leaving us
little by little, and it's just it can sometimes be difficult.
But I'm appreciative that I teach music and then I'm
able to still find the joy in their youthfulness and
(03:50):
inspire them to want to do something outside of ela, math, science,
global studies, whatever they're studying. So it has its days
where I come home and I'm like but then it
has its days where I'm like, oh, it.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Was just so cute to that.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, I totally understand that I feel the same way
with my mentees, my ballroom kids.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Some days I'm just like yeah, and then some days
I'm like, oh, this was a day.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
It makes you want to rethink having kids. How about that?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So, what was the thing that like started you into
like the music and the arts from a younger age.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Was there like a moment that was like, oh, I
want to do this?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Uh? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I actually wanted to be a veterinarian. I went to
the top academic school here in Philadelphia called Jr.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Masterman.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I thought I was going to be a vet since
I was really young, and of course growing up in church,
I did the things that we do in church. We sing,
we dance, but it was never really given like all,
this could be a life because people didn't really believe
that arts could really sustain you. So, uh, my middle
school teacher, mister Travis, I will never forget. He ended
(05:01):
up finding out that I sang, and he like cursed
me out in the most nicest professional way possible and
pretty much told me that I was going to be
part of this musical. I ended up being the Lollipop
Guild and the Wizard of Oz. You could not tell
me anything. I mean when I did my bow at
the end of the show, and you know how like
the ensemble starts in the back and the leads kind
(05:22):
of come in front. No, I was like going around
each person. So I ended up bowing at the end
of the show next to scare growing Ti Man and
I just I remember like, Wow, this is really cool
that people appreciate this, and it's not something so religious
or so like.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Holy.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
It was like a different space to like occupy. But
it still wasn't enough to convince me, Like I still
thought that I was gonna be a fit. I ended
up doing the musical the following year, and then after
that I was like, wow, Okay, I think I'm na
be convinced. I switched high schools and went to the
Philadelpha High School for Creative Performing Arts.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
So Jazz Micellvan Boys did me.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
The main Legends Legends the Legends, and then that's where
I kind of switched. I was in school and I
was like, okay, well, you have a decision to make
either go and do this or not because you didn't
spend the last four years I mean rehearsal rehearsal.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I was a dance writer vocal major in the theater shows.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I was doing all the things to try to like
use those four years to really figure out this was
something that I could see myself committed to lifelong.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
And that was the moment my whole turchu actually shifted
and here we are.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So now you know you go into music, how would
you describe like your own musical universe?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
What are like your styles? What do you like to
lean into?
Speaker 4 (06:41):
This is probably going to shock a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I love R and B, right, That's what I grew
up on outside of gospel. A lot of the music
that I create lends itself to like pop music with
R and B sensualities, R and B music with pop sensualities.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
When I am at home.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Alone and I I am cleaning, I listen to alternative pop.
When I am alone and I want to resynergize myself,
I listen to movie scores, like orchestral movie scores. I
like to listen to a lot of instrumentals, stuff that
does not have words and lyrics, and it just allows
my brain to just flow and then for real, for real,
(07:20):
Like lately, I've been listening to a lot of frequencies,
just frequencies, sounds and noises, renavigating, how like these different
frequencies make me feel my little universe is like over
here in this little nugget that I don't feel like
a lot of people in my circle would understand. So
I still hear about myself. But it's interesting because when
(07:41):
I go to create music.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I love pop and I love R and B Bust.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I think that gospel is so rooted in me that
everything that I do has soul and feeling. I love that,
And it kind of leads me into like my next question,
because you're kind of talking about I always say sometimes
when I'm writing books, people always ask why do you think,
like some of your books go so universal?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And I was like, it's because I'm very specific.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I don't try to write them to be universal, like
like I'm not trying to be like, oh, I want
maybe this community, this community community to be seen in
this moment. It's like, now I want a black cheer
kid who is fifteen to be seen in this moment.
And it essentially makes it a universal thing because of that.
And there was an interview where you did where you
said that your music is more than a queer thing
(08:25):
and how there shouldn't necessarily be separations in music based
on sexuality.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You can just relate on that just a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
For us, all of these labels and titles. People have
a really difficult hard time understanding what they can't comprehend,
so they try to put labels on things as it
pertains to genres and sexualities just that they can understand.
But for me, music like, first of all, I'm biracial,
and I also have lived in another country for more
than a year, So in my mind, like music is
(08:56):
the one thing that connects.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
It's not the one thing that me correct. It's one
of the things.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
There's many things, but music really has a way of
connecting people who may not understand each other, may not
understand the walls and lines.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Of people's identities or stories.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And I just have never really liked to subscribe to
a certain genre or a certain space just because it
does pigeonhole you and it puts you in a box.
I like to create, and I like to create music
that feels good to whoever. I want my gay little
sisters to listen to my music, just because I like
my older straight brother to listen to my music.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
I'd like one of my trans friends that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Listen to my music just how I like my older
religious grandmother to listen to my music.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
And it was interesting because.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
For a long time I blurred the lines as it
pertain as it pertained to like pronouns of my music,
trying to be universal.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
But then I said, Okay, no, I'm.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Gonna talk about boys because that's what I like. And
then the music is just going to be good enough
that you're not gonna care, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now. It kind of reminds me of when people found
out Frank Ocean on the first album was singing about
a man, right, but heterosexual man had already fell in
love with the music.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
The music was so good.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
And then like you kind of find out like a
year later that Frest you hadn't sing about a man
the whole time, and.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
And you got upset for a second, and then you
still because the music was good.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
No, that's so interesting.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I think about that all the time. And I also
think about.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
There was at there was a book twenty Morrison wrote
where you didn't know what the race of the character was,
and she was like very intentional about that, like.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
I love stuff like that, and I love.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Stuff like that, and it bothered people, like why don't
we know? And and they kept reading right and they
were like because, but it made you have to think
differently about what happens when you move race away from
this person. Where does your mind go? Because if this
person was black, you would think this way. If this
person was white, you would think this way.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And people have a very hard time understanding what they
can and comprehended.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
It's just like a weird it's like a weird thing.
But we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I'm hopeful even as I've seen in the industry so
many things are changing and so many things are being accepted.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Do you ever feel because people know that you're queer,
like that you're like put into a box to make
music that is like more queer or like based on identity?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Actually, no, I don't.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I actually feel more of that pressure outside of music, Like,
for instance, like I tell all my girlfriends that, Yo,
just because I'm gay does not mean I have a
boom cac emmy every time we see each other.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
It does not have to be this thing like.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Sometimes I just want to chill with my homegirls and
just like chill every time you see me. You don't
gotta be yes and all this all this what you
think is gay, Like, it don't have to be like that,
and not every song that I write Like it's very
interesting because outside of the pronouns that I might use,
(12:04):
the music doesn't necessarily sound what most people might think
is gay.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
I don't really have a lot of music. I don't
have a lot of like.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Other types of artists, which I have no problem with
that type of music. But for me, like I've always
felt as if I wanted to reach more than just
our community or it's really really hard to make music
that just felt good so that people wouldn't put this
type of thing up as soon as they heard it,
and it allowed me to enter spaces that were not
(12:37):
necessarily might not have been created for me and exists
in those space and also reshape how people feel about
people that like us in those spaces based off of
the music alone.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
It's been a.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Journey, but I've seen and I've seen the reward and
I felt the benefits of that.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Earlier you were talking about how like you've lived abroad.
I believe it was in China, correct, What was that
experience like for you? I think a lot of times
people only get to see, like what's on social media,
and when people travel, and like what goes viral when
people travel is like, oh, black person in China. Everybody's there, yeah, everybody,
but you were there. What was like the musical experience
(13:27):
for you? You know why you were there, like that
it inspire sound for you or something different.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
My time in China was probably one of the best
years of my life at the time. Just to give
a little context of why it even ended up there,
I just broken up with my boyfriend. I don't one
know that I had. I just fired my managers. I
just fired my production team. I just I had taken
too long to tell my job that I wanted to
(13:54):
come back, so they found someone else. My lease was
up in my apartment like it was given very much
like oh okay, all right, this is cute.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
And then I ended up.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Getting a message about being going away and seeing so
I was like, okay, yeah, I'm gone. Within two weeks
I was gone. The very first three and a half
months were very depressive. I'm not even going lie because
my favorite time of the year, like many other people,
is holidays, and that leads trade into my birthday. So
(14:25):
it was like Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas years my birthday in January,
and I was away from everyone and everything that I knew.
I took it very hard at first, but then I'm like, Yo,
you live in China. You're not paying a rent. I'm
living on the fifty second floor of a Grand Hyatt.
(14:47):
I am giving very much the cunt singing for the
richest of the most richest people that have traveled into
Chunkshaw and Guang show at this time, Like, Yo, lean
into this experience.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
It's probably actually what you really need.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And while I was over there, I started dealing with
some truths about my life and my family and my
sexuality and what I really wanted, how I wanted people
to perceive me with kind of music I wanted to write.
I dealt with all of these things while I was
over there, and then I dealt with those truths and
came back guns Blazon. I mean, I came back. A
(15:23):
week after that, I got hit up for the Motown
show at hard Rock and Atlantic City, and then a
week after that I got hit up for The Voice,
and it was just like.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Everything just started flowing. After that. I strong believer.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
That everyone, I mean, you don't got out with China,
but I think that everyone needs to spend a little
time away from the things that they know, the people
that they know, the like that.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
They once lived.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Because for me, I got to exist in a space
where no one had any preconceived notions about who I was,
what I should be doing, who my grandfather was, who
my family was in ministry, how I should have been
doing this Because I went to Kappa how I like
none of that existed, and I got to almost rEFInd
(16:13):
out who I was. So when I came back, a
lot of people were like, oh my go, are you changing?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's like, no, I finally just gave myself agencies. It's
like be who I actually really was. I think I
suppressed a lot of who I was because of who
I was.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And now back to my conversation with Julian King, you
also brought up that you were on NBC's The Voice
was a leisurely what was that experience?
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Like?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
So I had never really been interested in television.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I come from a place my grandmother always told me,
like what God has fears.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
For you, and you don't really got to do too much,
Like his hand is over your life.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And so I've never really felt like I needed to
compete or compare. I just have everything to share. I've
lived my entire life believing that. Where I felt like
I needed to do that was because I had just
been gone for speaking Mandarin for the past year or so,
(17:37):
that whole out of side, out of mind as.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It comes to the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I was like, Oh, this will be a good way
for me to just get back into people's faces. Dealing
with the show like that, you have to understand that
you are dealing with people who are very experienced, like myself,
and then you're dealing with people who they just found
singing on a TikTok in their bedrooms. There was a
lot of high anxiety leading up to these auditions, just
(18:02):
the whole process.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Mind you, things are getting a little weird already.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Because this was like right before the pandemic, and they
knew things were getting weird. They were already sequestering us,
but they were doing the absolute most. I remember very
shortly after my season air the pandemic started, there were
a lot of cool things and they allowed me agency
to Like I remember my battle I music directed that
(18:26):
entire thing, and I was kind of like, going in there,
I knew who I was, Like, I had just come
back from this this holistic Chinese retreat, so I was
coming back very much like, No, this is what I
want to wear, this is how I want to sound
with Lit's, this is this key. I don't want to
sing a song d And unfortunately they don't really like
people like that because they can't really tell you what
(18:47):
to do, and when you are more on like the
lower totem pole, they can tell you what to do.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
So I felt like I got what I needed from it.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I got my Instagram verification, got thousands of thousands of
dollars of followers, I got very much like all of
the press fronts, like I got what I needed. I
really wanted to just get in people's faces. Yeah, I
didn't really go to when no one goes to it
because when you win, nothing happens. And had I stayed
(19:17):
one more week, God iss so good. If I were
to say one more week, my contract with Epic would
have began and I would have been under some weird guidelines.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, yes, I can only imagine. Yeah, you brought up
a good point though about kind of like the visibility
of things. I feel the same way as like my
book brought me like a whole lot of visibility. But
then it also was like, Okay, how do I want
to control this new space I have to navigate in
(19:49):
a sense, how have you found like a balance in
navigating your social media after being on like a show
on NBC, How do you navigate that space?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
I am.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I'm very grateful that my season air before TikTok got
to America, like, oh yeah, my season got my season air,
and then TikTok came to America like that following summer.
I have a very love hate relationship with social media already.
I can sometimes get very high anxiety. So I go on,
I post my thing, and I don't really get off,
(20:23):
and then I'll allow myself, like after I shower and
lay my clothes out for the night, I'll allow myself
some time to kind of like scroll, so I get sleepy.
There were only a few instances where people tried me,
like tried me, but I had already had a sense
(20:44):
of control over myself. I had media training before I
did the Voice, so through everything else that I had
done before China and the Voice, being on the road
with Mary J. Blige and opening up for Miguel, all
the things that I'd done like that had already given
me a sense of like how to control myself when
people say the weird things.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Anybody who knows me knows I love Maryja Blodge. I'm
sure there are probably like four viral videos and be
Dancing marriage bloge by that.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
It was such a all right, so that it was
such an interesting experience because I this was around the
time that she was at divorcing her husband, so we
didn't really get to spend much time like she was
not it was a rough time, and I got that
I watched my mom go to t divorces, so it
wasn't like I was trying to force the situation on her,
(21:34):
but it was one of the It was one of
the things earlier in my career that I got to
hold onto as like an accomplishment, And I remember just
being so grateful for the opportunity to share the stage with.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
The Queen of R and B and soul.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
She is a force and to be able to hear
those songs that my mom was listening to going through
her divorce, cussing out her neggas gave very much like
gave very much like this is just beautiful, And it
also was very affirming to me as an artist, because
I'm like, wow.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
You wanted to be a vet girl. Look at you now?
Given very much like Mary J. Bosch is on your resume.
That's kind.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Was there a point like over like the last you know,
I say, like a few years where you really like
knew that you were like leading a purpose driven life.
I feel like even after I wrote all bozarm Blo,
I wasn't sure. Even though it was a success in
all those things, it was like, am I supposed to
write more?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Like?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Is book writing my thing?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Or am I supposed to pivot here and be a
one hit type of tee set? Like what was like
that affirmation of like, yeah, this is gonna be my
thing and if I just stay on the course, just
will It happens constantly in the smallest, little minute ways.
(23:01):
People will randomly ask me, yo, when is new music
coming out? And it takes me back because you know,
you do the thing, you release the thing, it has
its moment. But then you're like, wow, there are people
whom I don't even know who have been championing this
(23:22):
art and are eager for more because it's helping them
navigate whatever they're going through. I have to keep going.
It's not an unfortunate thing because it's not a burden.
It's a blessing to be able to get to do
what we do. And fortunately people have clung on to
the art and really see themselves in the art. That
(23:44):
is so special to me.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I don't take that for granted, and I you know,
I try to respond to as many comments and dms
as possible because I want people to know that I
see them too, just like they see me.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So you do also put time and energy into like
mentoring younger artists. But did you have any or do
you currently have any like mentors?
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I had a lot of mentors, especially when I started
making the transition from want to be veterinarian too artists.
A lot of my dance teachers, my male dance teachers,
ends up becoming mentors to me because, as you know,
I'm pretty sure you have.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Plenty of dance friends.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Dance for boys in the black community can be very difficult,
especially when they think you're gay. It just gets it's
like even worse. But to this day, my mentor, her
name is Crystal. Everyone calls her typewriter. She actually wrote
Showstoppers by Danny Kane and you mean that much to me.
Chrissette Michelle, and she's super talented. She is the reason
(24:50):
why I got into this music industry and to this day,
I mean I called her like three weeks ago, damn
near kry and like, yo, I need your help.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
And it's people like that that really keep me going,
that really strengthened me.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And I am a huge advocate for having a mentor
but then also given back as a part of the
Recording Academy. Not only am I part of the social
media team and a voting member, but I'm also a
Grammy You mentor.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Grammy You is like a sub chapter of the Recording
Academy for young people who are in college or people
who are.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Not voting members, such as myself, like professionals, but still
are aspiring to be within the industry. And I love
being able to have these types of conversations with up
and coming artists, but also to just feed into them
and pour into them and to keep them keep their
gears oil because it's a very difficult road. Whether you're
(25:49):
a writer, whether you're a film producer, whether you're a dancer,
it's very difficult and we really need each other a
lot more than we actually think.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Absolutely Every now and then I feel like I'm on
a panel or something to remind people that Tony Morrison
had an editor, and I was like, I said, we
don't do this alone.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Like no one knows.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
We don't.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Even if you think you are the best songwriter and
I can write every song by myself, it's like, that's
great on paper, and that sounds great as a SoundBite,
but be very clear, the best of the best have
someone else that is also guiding, shaping, doing something to
help with the process. I mean, we literally just heard
(26:27):
it from the legend herself, Miss de Wie Allen, and
that acceptance speech.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I mean, we do not do this alone. And I
never say I do anything alone. It is because of
people like Crystal and Sean Lamer and Ladiva Davis that
have literally helped me up and literally had the spirit
of ancestor to.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Keep you going. Because there were many times that I
wanted to give up.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, there's times still I'd be like, Okay, this was cute,
but now I'm ready to go to Vermont and get
a little house and lived by myself.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And now back to my conversation with Julian King, what
do you feel is up next for you musically? What
are you working on next and what are like some
of the like just like even your goals moving forward.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So the past few years and full transparency have been
a little rough for me because I've been navigating independent
label after independent label after independent label. I mean, I
just left a really really weird situation where the label
head was like super homophobic, and yeah, that happened over
the summer, and I've just been healing since then. There's
(28:07):
a lot of music that I am now just about
to put be like put out starting in January. I'm
coming out guns blazing. I'm kind of just navigating now
taking full control over my career. I no longer have
a manager, I no longer have the support of independent label.
But I have community and I have a relationship and
(28:30):
I'm gonna be just fine.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I have the Grammy's coming up, being a part of
the Recording Academy. It's just super special for me and
it really is like another one of my backbones that
keeps me like ignited. And then also lately I've been
doing a lot of work with labination, but for real
is really just getting back into the algorithm of releasing music. Yeah,
(28:53):
I'm excited for this music because it's just good. A
lot of it is produced by Grammy nominated and Grammy
Award winning producers.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
One of the biggest producers I've been working with Mi TJ. Camper,
he just did I See You Coocle Jones. He's done
They Yeezy and Tie Doll the Time project. So I'm
super excited because, you know, not very often are those
A list producers.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Producer for the girls.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
But that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Before I let you go, I can't let you go
without talking about the song All Boys Aren't Blue.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yo, funny story about this song.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yes, go ahead, talent.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
You want me to talent? Okay?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (29:38):
So yo, all right.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So you know, during the pandemic, the girls getting all
this unemployment. So I had bought the book myself and
I read it and I just felt so seen and
I was like, yo, y'all not doing nothing. I spent
I feel like my entire unapployment check that I bought
a ship ton of books and I had like a
whole little moment in my house, gave all the books out,
(30:04):
ended up getting a liquor sponsor during the pandemic. It
was wild, and then I ended up writing this song
call All Boys Are Blue Now mind You.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I just never thought that it was see the light
of Day for a fru. I just really didn't.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
But I haunted Georgetown. I remember typing the email literally
in my bedroom, like, Yo, I really just hope that
you listen to this song. I felt inspired. I felt
like a young boy sending you there by the way.
You just don't really know how people are going to respond.
And George responded, I think you were like, Yo, thank
(30:39):
you so much. I'm gonna listen to it. But like
time had went by and I was like, oh god,
I just got played. I got played, And then you
ended up hitting me back like about how much you
loved it and how much you.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
And then here we are.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And then because about a year and a half after
the book came out is when we recorded the dramatic reading,
and when I was working with Nathan Williams, he was like,
we the song is that there's already one that there
is already a song, Nathan, And it's funny. There are
four songs named that I have in my three Other People.
One is an acoustic guitar vision of a preacher who
(31:15):
has a trans child, wrote this acoustic version song called
All Boys. But then there were two other ones too,
and Julian's song ended up being the theme song for
the dramatic reading that we did, and then we decided to.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Made my whole pandemic wrote and got all these awards,
and then he got an Emmy nomination, and then it
just be like way bigger than Yes of Age. And
I'm telling you, when I wrote that song, I just
never thought that it would be the beginning of not
even the opportunity, but just the beginning of our friendship
and our relationship. And I just I'm just so grateful
(31:51):
that you pressed to play.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
The final question, are there any words that you live
by or words that you're living by these days?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I often think about this quote what if who I
hope to be was always me? And I felt like
that is like the story of my life, because I
felt like for so many years I was chasing like
who was I supposed to be? But like who I
(32:31):
actually really wanted to be? I actually already was, And
it took so many years for me to unpack that.
I really unpacked that in China, oh shade and ever
since then, I'm like, yo, you're already that person. You're
already doing the things. Lean into it and just allow
(32:52):
God to do the rest. You know, I think a
lot of us, especially with this social media stuff, it's
just really different.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
It's difficult, and it's easy.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
To get lost and who you are as a result
of it, trying to keep up with the Kardashians, no
punitend like, it's really difficult. I imagine this version of
who I was supposed to be, but no actuality. Like
I was really already that person. I just needed to
lean into it. And by leaning into it, it's how
(33:24):
I feel like the gates have just opened up and
opportunities and friendships and spaces that I always longed to
be in.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
So you're more than likely already who you think you
want to be. Just lean into it.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
That that's a great way to end. Everybody, I want
to thank you Julian for coming on the show. Thank
you for your music. Of course, your music is healing.
Your music helps people think. Sometimes activism has to look
like a thing, and I'm like, no, music is a
form of activism. Art is a form of activism. Writing
is a form of activism. Yes, your music's helped and
healed so many other people.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
New music coming Sis January.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Fighting Words is a production of iHeart Podcasts in partnership
with Best Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This episode was
produced by Charlotte Morley. Executive producers are myself and Twiggy
p g Guar Song with Adam Pinks and Brick Cats
for Best Case Studios. The theme song was written and
composed by cole Vos ban Bianna and Myself. Original music
(34:43):
by Colevas. This episode was edited and scored by Max
Michael Miller. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel.
Following Rap Fighting Words, Wherever you get your podcast
For a long time, I blurred the lines as it
pertained to like pronouns of my music, trying to be universal.
But then I said, Okay, no, I'm gonna talk about
boys because that's what I like. And then the music
is just gonna be good enough that you're not gonna carry.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Julian King is an R and B singer, songwriter, pianist,
and dancer based in Philadelphia. Julian was nominated for an
Emmy in the Outstanding Daytime Special category for All Boys
Aren't Blues theme song.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
Julian has also opened for Mary J.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Blige, reached over two million total streams, and sung background
vocals for John Legend.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
I want my gay little sisters to listen to my music,
just as I like my older straight brother to listen
to my music.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
I like one of my trans friends that listen to
my music, just.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
How I like my older religious grandmother to listen to
my music. I want people to know that I see
them too, just like they see.
Speaker 5 (00:59):
Me singing in them. Heavy handy to the world. Take
a super brandy spoken guy.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
You know what the plan is? Who became a Latin?
You know when to understand me.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
My name is George M. Johnson. I am the New
York Times bestselling.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Author of the book All Boys Aren't Blue, which is
the number one most challenged book in the United States.
This is Fighting Words, a show where we take you
to the front lines of the culture wars with the
people who are using their words to make change and
who refuse to be silenced.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Today's guest Julian King.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I am here with a good friend who I've known
for several years. Some of you may know him as
an R and B singer, songwriter, pianist, dancer based in Philadelphia.
Mister Julian King, how are you doing today?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
What's so? I'm doing good. I'm doing good.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I'm healing from laryn Chi, So I apologize if I
speak a little slow and a little low.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I always say our bios precede us. So we always
like for our guests to tell us a little bit
about themselves. With our first question, which is who is
Julian King?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I have a love hate relationship with this question because
it always feels so weird answering.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
Julian King is.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
A guy who loves the art. He loves animals, and
he loves people. He is a singer, dancer, musician. During
the day, he teaches music to kids, Kate the eight.
He comes home and he records music for different clients.
He's also a wedding singer. He's also a humanitarian. He's
(02:49):
also community driven and he sees the world through art.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Through music. The color went through feeling that's beautif.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
So beautiful, k through a What is that? Giving?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Is giving? Find another job?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
No, it truly like I don't have any kids, so
I feel like I get to get all of that,
Like ah outomy, it has its challenges.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
It's interesting.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I love education before the pandemic, and after the pandemic
I came back, it's a very different landscape. The kid's
attention spans are pretty low, the abilities are leaving us
little by little, and it's just it can sometimes be difficult.
But I'm appreciative that I teach music and then I'm
able to still find the joy in their youthfulness and
(03:50):
inspire them to want to do something outside of ela, math, science,
global studies, whatever they're studying. So it has its days
where I come home and I'm like but then it
has its days where I'm like, oh, it.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
Was just so cute to that.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
No, I totally understand that I feel the same way
with my mentees, my ballroom kids.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Some days I'm just like yeah, and then some days
I'm like, oh, this was a day.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
It makes you want to rethink having kids. How about that?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
So, what was the thing that like started you into
like the music and the arts from a younger age.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Was there like a moment that was like, oh, I
want to do this?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Uh? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:34):
I actually wanted to be a veterinarian. I went to
the top academic school here in Philadelphia called Jr.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Masterman.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
I thought I was going to be a vet since
I was really young, and of course growing up in church,
I did the things that we do in church. We sing,
we dance, but it was never really given like all,
this could be a life because people didn't really believe
that arts could really sustain you. So, uh, my middle
school teacher, mister Travis, I will never forget. He ended
(05:01):
up finding out that I sang, and he like cursed
me out in the most nicest professional way possible and
pretty much told me that I was going to be
part of this musical. I ended up being the Lollipop
Guild and the Wizard of Oz. You could not tell
me anything. I mean when I did my bow at
the end of the show, and you know how like
the ensemble starts in the back and the leads kind
(05:22):
of come in front. No, I was like going around
each person. So I ended up bowing at the end
of the show next to scare growing Ti Man and
I just I remember like, Wow, this is really cool
that people appreciate this, and it's not something so religious
or so like.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
Holy.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
It was like a different space to like occupy. But
it still wasn't enough to convince me, Like I still
thought that I was gonna be a fit. I ended
up doing the musical the following year, and then after
that I was like, wow, Okay, I think I'm na
be convinced. I switched high schools and went to the
Philadelpha High School for Creative Performing Arts.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
So Jazz Micellvan Boys did me.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
The main Legends Legends the Legends, and then that's where
I kind of switched. I was in school and I
was like, okay, well, you have a decision to make
either go and do this or not because you didn't
spend the last four years I mean rehearsal rehearsal.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
I was a dance writer vocal major in the theater shows.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
I was doing all the things to try to like
use those four years to really figure out this was
something that I could see myself committed to lifelong.
Speaker 4 (06:25):
And that was the moment my whole turchu actually shifted
and here we are.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
So now you know you go into music, how would
you describe like your own musical universe?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
What are like your styles? What do you like to
lean into?
Speaker 4 (06:41):
This is probably going to shock a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
I love R and B, right, That's what I grew
up on outside of gospel. A lot of the music
that I create lends itself to like pop music with
R and B sensualities, R and B music with pop sensualities.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
When I am at home.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
Alone and I I am cleaning, I listen to alternative pop.
When I am alone and I want to resynergize myself,
I listen to movie scores, like orchestral movie scores. I
like to listen to a lot of instrumentals, stuff that
does not have words and lyrics, and it just allows
my brain to just flow and then for real, for real,
(07:20):
Like lately, I've been listening to a lot of frequencies,
just frequencies, sounds and noises, renavigating, how like these different
frequencies make me feel my little universe is like over
here in this little nugget that I don't feel like
a lot of people in my circle would understand. So
I still hear about myself. But it's interesting because when
(07:41):
I go to create music.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I love pop and I love R and B Bust.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I think that gospel is so rooted in me that
everything that I do has soul and feeling. I love that,
And it kind of leads me into like my next question,
because you're kind of talking about I always say sometimes
when I'm writing books, people always ask why do you think,
like some of your books go so universal?
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And I was like, it's because I'm very specific.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I don't try to write them to be universal, like
like I'm not trying to be like, oh, I want
maybe this community, this community community to be seen in
this moment. It's like, now I want a black cheer
kid who is fifteen to be seen in this moment.
And it essentially makes it a universal thing because of that.
And there was an interview where you did where you
said that your music is more than a queer thing
(08:25):
and how there shouldn't necessarily be separations in music based
on sexuality.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
You can just relate on that just a little bit.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
For us, all of these labels and titles. People have
a really difficult hard time understanding what they can't comprehend,
so they try to put labels on things as it
pertains to genres and sexualities just that they can understand.
But for me, music like, first of all, I'm biracial,
and I also have lived in another country for more
than a year, So in my mind, like music is
(08:56):
the one thing that connects.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
It's not the one thing that me correct. It's one
of the things.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
There's many things, but music really has a way of
connecting people who may not understand each other, may not
understand the walls and lines.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Of people's identities or stories.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
And I just have never really liked to subscribe to
a certain genre or a certain space just because it
does pigeonhole you and it puts you in a box.
I like to create, and I like to create music
that feels good to whoever. I want my gay little
sisters to listen to my music, just because I like
my older straight brother to listen to my music.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
I'd like one of my trans friends that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Listen to my music just how I like my older
religious grandmother to listen to my music.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
And it was interesting because.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
For a long time I blurred the lines as it
pertain as it pertained to like pronouns of my music,
trying to be universal.
Speaker 4 (09:49):
But then I said, Okay, no, I'm.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Gonna talk about boys because that's what I like. And
then the music is just going to be good enough
that you're not gonna care, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now. It kind of reminds me of when people found
out Frank Ocean on the first album was singing about
a man, right, but heterosexual man had already fell in
love with the music.
Speaker 4 (10:12):
The music was so good.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
And then like you kind of find out like a
year later that Frest you hadn't sing about a man
the whole time, and.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
And you got upset for a second, and then you
still because the music was good.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
No, that's so interesting.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
I think about that all the time. And I also
think about.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
There was at there was a book twenty Morrison wrote
where you didn't know what the race of the character was,
and she was like very intentional about that, like.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
I love stuff like that, and I love.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Stuff like that, and it bothered people, like why don't
we know? And and they kept reading right and they
were like because, but it made you have to think
differently about what happens when you move race away from
this person. Where does your mind go? Because if this
person was black, you would think this way. If this
person was white, you would think this way.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
And people have a very hard time understanding what they
can and comprehended.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
It's just like a weird it's like a weird thing.
But we're getting there.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
I'm hopeful even as I've seen in the industry so
many things are changing and so many things are being accepted.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Do you ever feel because people know that you're queer,
like that you're like put into a box to make
music that is like more queer or like based on identity?
Speaker 4 (11:25):
Actually, no, I don't.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I actually feel more of that pressure outside of music, Like,
for instance, like I tell all my girlfriends that, Yo,
just because I'm gay does not mean I have a
boom cac emmy every time we see each other.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
It does not have to be this thing like.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Sometimes I just want to chill with my homegirls and
just like chill every time you see me. You don't
gotta be yes and all this all this what you
think is gay, Like, it don't have to be like that,
and not every song that I write Like it's very
interesting because outside of the pronouns that I might use,
(12:04):
the music doesn't necessarily sound what most people might think
is gay.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
I don't really have a lot of music. I don't
have a lot of like.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Other types of artists, which I have no problem with
that type of music. But for me, like I've always
felt as if I wanted to reach more than just
our community or it's really really hard to make music
that just felt good so that people wouldn't put this
type of thing up as soon as they heard it,
and it allowed me to enter spaces that were not
(12:37):
necessarily might not have been created for me and exists
in those space and also reshape how people feel about
people that like us in those spaces based off of
the music alone.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
It's been a.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Journey, but I've seen and I've seen the reward and
I felt the benefits of that.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Now.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Earlier you were talking about how like you've lived abroad.
I believe it was in China, correct, What was that
experience like for you? I think a lot of times
people only get to see, like what's on social media,
and when people travel, and like what goes viral when
people travel is like, oh, black person in China. Everybody's there, yeah, everybody,
but you were there. What was like the musical experience
(13:27):
for you? You know why you were there, like that
it inspire sound for you or something different.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
My time in China was probably one of the best
years of my life at the time. Just to give
a little context of why it even ended up there,
I just broken up with my boyfriend. I don't one
know that I had. I just fired my managers. I
just fired my production team. I just I had taken
too long to tell my job that I wanted to
(13:54):
come back, so they found someone else. My lease was
up in my apartment like it was given very much
like oh okay, all right, this is cute.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
And then I ended up.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Getting a message about being going away and seeing so
I was like, okay, yeah, I'm gone. Within two weeks
I was gone. The very first three and a half
months were very depressive. I'm not even going lie because
my favorite time of the year, like many other people,
is holidays, and that leads trade into my birthday. So
(14:25):
it was like Halloween, Thanksgiving, Christmas years my birthday in January,
and I was away from everyone and everything that I knew.
I took it very hard at first, but then I'm like, Yo,
you live in China. You're not paying a rent. I'm
living on the fifty second floor of a Grand Hyatt.
(14:47):
I am giving very much the cunt singing for the
richest of the most richest people that have traveled into
Chunkshaw and Guang show at this time, Like, Yo, lean
into this experience.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
It's probably actually what you really need.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
And while I was over there, I started dealing with
some truths about my life and my family and my
sexuality and what I really wanted, how I wanted people
to perceive me with kind of music I wanted to write.
I dealt with all of these things while I was
over there, and then I dealt with those truths and
came back guns Blazon. I mean, I came back. A
(15:23):
week after that, I got hit up for the Motown
show at hard Rock and Atlantic City, and then a
week after that I got hit up for The Voice,
and it was just like.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
Everything just started flowing. After that. I strong believer.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
That everyone, I mean, you don't got out with China,
but I think that everyone needs to spend a little
time away from the things that they know, the people
that they know, the like that.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
They once lived.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Because for me, I got to exist in a space
where no one had any preconceived notions about who I was,
what I should be doing, who my grandfather was, who
my family was in ministry, how I should have been
doing this Because I went to Kappa how I like
none of that existed, and I got to almost rEFInd
(16:13):
out who I was. So when I came back, a
lot of people were like, oh my go, are you changing?
Speaker 4 (16:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
It's like, no, I finally just gave myself agencies. It's
like be who I actually really was. I think I
suppressed a lot of who I was because of who
I was.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
And now back to my conversation with Julian King, you
also brought up that you were on NBC's The Voice
was a leisurely what was that experience?
Speaker 5 (17:03):
Like?
Speaker 4 (17:03):
So I had never really been interested in television.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I come from a place my grandmother always told me,
like what God has fears.
Speaker 4 (17:10):
For you, and you don't really got to do too much,
Like his hand is over your life.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And so I've never really felt like I needed to
compete or compare. I just have everything to share. I've
lived my entire life believing that. Where I felt like
I needed to do that was because I had just
been gone for speaking Mandarin for the past year or so,
(17:37):
that whole out of side, out of mind as.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
It comes to the entertainment industry.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I was like, Oh, this will be a good way
for me to just get back into people's faces. Dealing
with the show like that, you have to understand that
you are dealing with people who are very experienced, like myself,
and then you're dealing with people who they just found
singing on a TikTok in their bedrooms. There was a
lot of high anxiety leading up to these auditions, just
(18:02):
the whole process.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Mind you, things are getting a little weird already.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
Because this was like right before the pandemic, and they
knew things were getting weird. They were already sequestering us,
but they were doing the absolute most. I remember very
shortly after my season air the pandemic started, there were
a lot of cool things and they allowed me agency
to Like I remember my battle I music directed that
(18:26):
entire thing, and I was kind of like, going in there,
I knew who I was, Like, I had just come
back from this this holistic Chinese retreat, so I was
coming back very much like, No, this is what I
want to wear, this is how I want to sound
with Lit's, this is this key. I don't want to
sing a song d And unfortunately they don't really like
people like that because they can't really tell you what
(18:47):
to do, and when you are more on like the
lower totem pole, they can tell you what to do.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
So I felt like I got what I needed from it.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
I got my Instagram verification, got thousands of thousands of
dollars of followers, I got very much like all of
the press fronts, like I got what I needed. I
really wanted to just get in people's faces. Yeah, I
didn't really go to when no one goes to it
because when you win, nothing happens. And had I stayed
(19:17):
one more week, God iss so good. If I were
to say one more week, my contract with Epic would
have began and I would have been under some weird guidelines.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yeah, yes, I can only imagine. Yeah, you brought up
a good point though about kind of like the visibility
of things. I feel the same way as like my
book brought me like a whole lot of visibility. But
then it also was like, Okay, how do I want
to control this new space I have to navigate in
(19:49):
a sense, how have you found like a balance in
navigating your social media after being on like a show
on NBC, How do you navigate that space?
Speaker 4 (19:59):
I am.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I'm very grateful that my season air before TikTok got
to America, like, oh yeah, my season got my season air,
and then TikTok came to America like that following summer.
I have a very love hate relationship with social media already.
I can sometimes get very high anxiety. So I go on,
I post my thing, and I don't really get off,
(20:23):
and then I'll allow myself, like after I shower and
lay my clothes out for the night, I'll allow myself
some time to kind of like scroll, so I get sleepy.
There were only a few instances where people tried me,
like tried me, but I had already had a sense
(20:44):
of control over myself. I had media training before I
did the Voice, so through everything else that I had
done before China and the Voice, being on the road
with Mary J. Blige and opening up for Miguel, all
the things that I'd done like that had already given
me a sense of like how to control myself when
people say the weird things.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Anybody who knows me knows I love Maryja Blodge. I'm
sure there are probably like four viral videos and be
Dancing marriage bloge by that.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
It was such a all right, so that it was
such an interesting experience because I this was around the
time that she was at divorcing her husband, so we
didn't really get to spend much time like she was
not it was a rough time, and I got that
I watched my mom go to t divorces, so it
wasn't like I was trying to force the situation on her,
(21:34):
but it was one of the It was one of
the things earlier in my career that I got to
hold onto as like an accomplishment, And I remember just
being so grateful for the opportunity to share the stage with.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
The Queen of R and B and soul.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
She is a force and to be able to hear
those songs that my mom was listening to going through
her divorce, cussing out her neggas gave very much like
gave very much like this is just beautiful, And it
also was very affirming to me as an artist, because
I'm like, wow.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
You wanted to be a vet girl. Look at you now?
Given very much like Mary J. Bosch is on your resume.
That's kind.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Was there a point like over like the last you know,
I say, like a few years where you really like
knew that you were like leading a purpose driven life.
I feel like even after I wrote all bozarm Blo,
I wasn't sure. Even though it was a success in
all those things, it was like, am I supposed to
write more?
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Like?
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Is book writing my thing?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Or am I supposed to pivot here and be a
one hit type of tee set? Like what was like
that affirmation of like, yeah, this is gonna be my
thing and if I just stay on the course, just
will It happens constantly in the smallest, little minute ways.
(23:01):
People will randomly ask me, yo, when is new music
coming out? And it takes me back because you know,
you do the thing, you release the thing, it has
its moment. But then you're like, wow, there are people
whom I don't even know who have been championing this
(23:22):
art and are eager for more because it's helping them
navigate whatever they're going through. I have to keep going.
It's not an unfortunate thing because it's not a burden.
It's a blessing to be able to get to do
what we do. And fortunately people have clung on to
the art and really see themselves in the art. That
(23:44):
is so special to me.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I don't take that for granted, and I you know,
I try to respond to as many comments and dms
as possible because I want people to know that I
see them too, just like they see me.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
So you do also put time and energy into like
mentoring younger artists. But did you have any or do
you currently have any like mentors?
Speaker 1 (24:11):
I had a lot of mentors, especially when I started
making the transition from want to be veterinarian too artists.
A lot of my dance teachers, my male dance teachers,
ends up becoming mentors to me because, as you know,
I'm pretty sure you have.
Speaker 4 (24:27):
Plenty of dance friends.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Dance for boys in the black community can be very difficult,
especially when they think you're gay. It just gets it's
like even worse. But to this day, my mentor, her
name is Crystal. Everyone calls her typewriter. She actually wrote
Showstoppers by Danny Kane and you mean that much to me.
Chrissette Michelle, and she's super talented. She is the reason
(24:50):
why I got into this music industry and to this day,
I mean I called her like three weeks ago, damn
near kry and like, yo, I need your help.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
And it's people like that that really keep me going,
that really strengthened me.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
And I am a huge advocate for having a mentor
but then also given back as a part of the
Recording Academy. Not only am I part of the social
media team and a voting member, but I'm also a
Grammy You mentor.
Speaker 4 (25:18):
Grammy You is like a sub chapter of the Recording
Academy for young people who are in college or people
who are.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Not voting members, such as myself, like professionals, but still
are aspiring to be within the industry. And I love
being able to have these types of conversations with up
and coming artists, but also to just feed into them
and pour into them and to keep them keep their
gears oil because it's a very difficult road. Whether you're
(25:49):
a writer, whether you're a film producer, whether you're a dancer,
it's very difficult and we really need each other a
lot more than we actually think.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Absolutely Every now and then I feel like I'm on
a panel or something to remind people that Tony Morrison
had an editor, and I was like, I said, we
don't do this alone.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Like no one knows.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
We don't.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Even if you think you are the best songwriter and
I can write every song by myself, it's like, that's
great on paper, and that sounds great as a SoundBite,
but be very clear, the best of the best have
someone else that is also guiding, shaping, doing something to
help with the process. I mean, we literally just heard
(26:27):
it from the legend herself, Miss de Wie Allen, and
that acceptance speech.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I mean, we do not do this alone. And I
never say I do anything alone. It is because of
people like Crystal and Sean Lamer and Ladiva Davis that
have literally helped me up and literally had the spirit
of ancestor to.
Speaker 4 (26:47):
Keep you going. Because there were many times that I
wanted to give up.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
Yeah, there's times still I'd be like, Okay, this was cute,
but now I'm ready to go to Vermont and get
a little house and lived by myself.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And now back to my conversation with Julian King, what
do you feel is up next for you musically? What
are you working on next and what are like some
of the like just like even your goals moving forward.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
So the past few years and full transparency have been
a little rough for me because I've been navigating independent
label after independent label after independent label. I mean, I
just left a really really weird situation where the label
head was like super homophobic, and yeah, that happened over
the summer, and I've just been healing since then. There's
(28:07):
a lot of music that I am now just about
to put be like put out starting in January. I'm
coming out guns blazing. I'm kind of just navigating now
taking full control over my career. I no longer have
a manager, I no longer have the support of independent label.
But I have community and I have a relationship and
(28:30):
I'm gonna be just fine.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
I have the Grammy's coming up, being a part of
the Recording Academy. It's just super special for me and
it really is like another one of my backbones that
keeps me like ignited. And then also lately I've been
doing a lot of work with labination, but for real
is really just getting back into the algorithm of releasing music. Yeah,
(28:53):
I'm excited for this music because it's just good. A
lot of it is produced by Grammy nominated and Grammy
Award winning producers.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
One of the biggest producers I've been working with Mi TJ. Camper,
he just did I See You Coocle Jones. He's done
They Yeezy and Tie Doll the Time project. So I'm
super excited because, you know, not very often are those
A list producers.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Producer for the girls.
Speaker 3 (29:23):
But that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Before I let you go, I can't let you go
without talking about the song All Boys Aren't Blue.
Speaker 4 (29:32):
Yo, funny story about this song.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
Yes, go ahead, talent.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
You want me to talent? Okay?
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (29:38):
So yo, all right.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
So you know, during the pandemic, the girls getting all
this unemployment. So I had bought the book myself and
I read it and I just felt so seen and
I was like, yo, y'all not doing nothing. I spent
I feel like my entire unapployment check that I bought
a ship ton of books and I had like a
whole little moment in my house, gave all the books out,
(30:04):
ended up getting a liquor sponsor during the pandemic. It
was wild, and then I ended up writing this song
call All Boys Are Blue Now mind You.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
I just never thought that it was see the light
of Day for a fru. I just really didn't.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
But I haunted Georgetown. I remember typing the email literally
in my bedroom, like, Yo, I really just hope that
you listen to this song. I felt inspired. I felt
like a young boy sending you there by the way.
You just don't really know how people are going to respond.
And George responded, I think you were like, Yo, thank
(30:39):
you so much. I'm gonna listen to it. But like
time had went by and I was like, oh god,
I just got played. I got played, And then you
ended up hitting me back like about how much you
loved it and how much you.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
And then here we are.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And then because about a year and a half after
the book came out is when we recorded the dramatic reading,
and when I was working with Nathan Williams, he was like,
we the song is that there's already one that there
is already a song, Nathan, And it's funny. There are
four songs named that I have in my three Other People.
One is an acoustic guitar vision of a preacher who
(31:15):
has a trans child, wrote this acoustic version song called
All Boys. But then there were two other ones too,
and Julian's song ended up being the theme song for
the dramatic reading that we did, and then we decided to.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Made my whole pandemic wrote and got all these awards,
and then he got an Emmy nomination, and then it
just be like way bigger than Yes of Age. And
I'm telling you, when I wrote that song, I just
never thought that it would be the beginning of not
even the opportunity, but just the beginning of our friendship
and our relationship. And I just I'm just so grateful
(31:51):
that you pressed to play.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
The final question, are there any words that you live
by or words that you're living by these days?
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (32:07):
I often think about this quote what if who I
hope to be was always me? And I felt like
that is like the story of my life, because I
felt like for so many years I was chasing like
who was I supposed to be? But like who I
(32:31):
actually really wanted to be? I actually already was, And
it took so many years for me to unpack that.
I really unpacked that in China, oh shade and ever
since then, I'm like, yo, you're already that person. You're
already doing the things. Lean into it and just allow
(32:52):
God to do the rest. You know, I think a
lot of us, especially with this social media stuff, it's
just really different.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
It's difficult, and it's easy.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
To get lost and who you are as a result
of it, trying to keep up with the Kardashians, no
punitend like, it's really difficult. I imagine this version of
who I was supposed to be, but no actuality. Like
I was really already that person. I just needed to
lean into it. And by leaning into it, it's how
(33:24):
I feel like the gates have just opened up and
opportunities and friendships and spaces that I always longed to
be in.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
So you're more than likely already who you think you
want to be. Just lean into it.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
That that's a great way to end. Everybody, I want
to thank you Julian for coming on the show. Thank
you for your music. Of course, your music is healing.
Your music helps people think. Sometimes activism has to look
like a thing, and I'm like, no, music is a
form of activism. Art is a form of activism. Writing
is a form of activism. Yes, your music's helped and
healed so many other people.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
New music coming Sis January.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Fighting Words is a production of iHeart Podcasts in partnership
with Best Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This episode was
produced by Charlotte Morley. Executive producers are myself and Twiggy
p g Guar Song with Adam Pinks and Brick Cats
for Best Case Studios. The theme song was written and
composed by cole Vos ban Bianna and Myself. Original music
(34:43):
by Colevas. This episode was edited and scored by Max
Michael Miller. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel.
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