October 6, 2025 • 32 mins
George is joined by actor Greg Mathis Jr., who shares what it was like to work in DC for 10 years, trying to pass the Affordable Care Act, before switching careers to entertainment. Greg tells George about his latest role in the movie "Fighting to Be Me," which tells the story of transgender gang leader Dwen Curry.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Part of that journey of self discovery. I did look
back at who I was when I was younger, the
young version of me, and it was the creative, you know,
the dynamic person and the family that everyone's like, oh yeah,
you're definitely gonna be the entertainer.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The actor.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Greg Mathis Junior is an actor whose latest role is
in the movie Fighting to Be Me The Dwyn Curry Story.
It's a true crime biopic that tells the story of
the transgender fashion icon and fraudster Dwynn Curry and her
criminal organization, the Gay Gangsters. In it, Greg Mathis Junior
plays the role of DJ, dwyn Curry's close friend.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I think dwyn actually was like, look, y'all need to
give him this part. He has been working training like
he looks just like DJ. They have the same spirit.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
He is DJ.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Singing in the heavy and.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Take a sip of Brandy Spook the guy you know
what the plan is of Kama Latin.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
You know one doesn't understand me. My name is Georgiam Johnson.
I am the New York Times best selling author of
the book All Boys Aren't Blue, which is the number
one most challenged book in the United States. This is
Fighting Words, a show where we take you to the
front lines of the culture wars with the people who
are using their words to make change and who refuse
(01:25):
to be silent. Today's guest, Greg mathis Junior. I'm here
today with my good friend Greg Matthis junior. I want
to welcome you to the show. How are you feeling today?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm feeling good. Actually, I had a good weekend.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
The day is off to a nice start and I
get to hang out with you for a little bit,
so I got no complaints. We're gonna lead with positivity today.
That's you know, we just got to pull ourselves up.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Could you just let everybody listening know who is Greg Mathews.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I am a black queer man that is trying to
make this world a better place for people like me.
I think growing up, obviously, service was instilled in me
from my father, because you know, he has had a
long history of working to change the way this country
and world that we live in operates and make it
better for black people in general and mass and I
(02:23):
think that's something that really has just been ingrained in
me from a younger age. Is trying to really, you know,
look deep within me and find out what skills I
have that can accomplish that goal. You know, that really
is my purpose.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, the first question is what is that like growing
up semi in the public eye, When you grow up
with your father on TV for twenty plus years, I'm
sure it can have an effect on how you grow up,
how people view you. And you have his name, you
didn't have even more added pressure.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
That's the that's the part that we have hid me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You know what's funny, George is, before I talk about
my experience, I will start by saying that my father
even before I was born, but he did not want
to name me Greg Mathis Junior. My mom was like,
I think we should. I think it's beautiful. You know,
it's you know, it's a legacy. This is your first son.
And he was saying, you know, I don't want him
to feel like he will have to live up to
(03:21):
the expectations of me, of who I am. I want
him to be able to live his own life.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
He obviously made the decision to name me after him,
and he had a friend with one of his He
had a conversation with one of his good friends who
basically convinced him of like, look man, anybody that wants
to put that on him, you know, your legacy, whoever
you are. Because even back then, in nineteen eighty nine
when I was born, my father was prominent in Detroit.
He was, you know, working for the mayor. He was
(03:47):
big in politics. He ran the Reverend Jesse Jackson's campaign
in Michigan, which was the only northern state they won
for his presidential campaign. So he was pretty prominent even
at that point, and so he really struggled with it
how I've carried it and how it's kind of led
into my experiences. Like I talked about, even from a
young age, he was prominent in Detroit, So I don't
(04:08):
really know what it feels.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Like to not be an guy, if that makes sense.
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I always trends, you know, related to maybe like a
bigger version of being a preacher's kid.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Where even when I.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Was in you know, elementary school, middle school, kindergarten, it
was my dad was the judge. And because he was
a real judge before he was a television judge, which
a lot of people don't know. So my dad, like
I said, he was a big figure in Detroit.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
He was judge.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Mathis at thirty six District Court in Detroit, and before
that he was working for the mayor Comban Young, who
was a huge political figure in Detroit, you know, and
kind of nationally at that time also that talked about
how he ran Reverend Jesse Jackson's campaign, and so there
is always that feeling of like, Okay, well, you can't
make any mistakes because any mistakes that you make are
(04:57):
going to, you know, be directly placed on my father,
my family.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Everybody's looking at me. I was the judges son.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
If I get in trouble at school, everybody's talking about
it at school.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
You know. My parents' friends and.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
People who are rivals to them, you know, they take
that information and it's gossip. And so there's always kind
of i'll call it a sixth sense that's hanging over you,
just to make sure you don't say anything that can
bring shame or embarrassment to the family. I think as
I've gotten older, I've learned to carry a lot less
of that, and you know, that's what the encouragement of
my parents and our old family, because we're all in
(05:32):
this together. And that's a blessing actually, because a lot
of people who get thrust into the public eye don't
have that, you know. I've heard you talk about this
on some of your other episodes, just how it can
be taxing that being the public guy, particularly when you're
doing the work like we do, which is social justice work,
and you're committed to changing you know, the world and
fighting the powers that be, which is also a legacy
(05:52):
that my dad has created for himself. And so I
think for a lot of us in our family we
have that luxury of being a were too lean on
each other and understand what it feels like. I understand
what it is. We're a lot of people who are
just kind of a celebrity in their own right, or
like you, who's a public figure in your own right.
It can be difficult to have to carry that alone
(06:14):
or not have a family or huge support system to
kind of coach you through some of the things that
come with things in the public.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
God, now you at a reality TV show, Yes, so
some people probably have met you there, some people may
have met you in some of the films you've been in.
But before that, you worked in policy in DC.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, for ten years. Actually I worked in policy in DC.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Which is crazy though, because I know you lived in
and we never crossed halfs the entire time. But honestly,
it's probably my fault because during that time I was
closeted or living a life where I wasn't fully open.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
And I was in the streets with Preston mentioned so
we definitely were not crossing paths because wherever there was
a gay club, a gay bar, or a gay party. Pressed.
So what did you do when you were working in
policy in DC?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
After undergrad When I came down to DC, the first
person I worked for was actually Jesse Jackson Junior. I
worked in this Congression of office and that was one
the Obama years, and it was I mean, we talk
about how it's difficult to be living in the time
we're living in now, just you know, everything that we're facing,
and when I think about how I feel now, I mean,
that was just a complete flip side of this. Yeah,
(07:30):
it feels like the good you know, it's just the
glory days of when I got on the hill. Jesse
Jackson Junior was the co chair of Obama's campaign. I
ended up actually working on the campaign for his re
election campaign. We were able to just get a lot
of really good things done. I was doing domestic policy issues,
So one of the things that I did work on
was the Affordable Care Act, which in my opinion, is
(07:52):
one of the most important things we have done for
the Black community maybe this decade, I want to say.
And I say that because healthcare, when we think about
the financial burden of it, is such a you know,
it can really be a socioeconomic divider.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
You know, when I was when I came to working
on the Hill, bankruptcy having a health care issue was
the number one cause of bankruptcy. Wow, and we know
who that falls on. It was the number one cause
of bankruptcy, and that fell on black, brown, low income Americans.
And so the Affordable Care Act comes in and basically says,
(08:32):
you know what, you don't have to have an employer
giving you healthcare coverage.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
We're going to provide that healthcare coverage. And it's safe lives.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's say, you know, it's put black people and brown
people and poor people on much stronger financial footing.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And so that was.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Probably the crown jewel of my work there, just being
able to really not only be a part of passing
that law, be a part of defending the legislation against
multiple attacks that I was on the Senate floor that
John McCain was there and we were fighting with the
Republicans and we were finally able to convince him to
vote no on.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
The repeal in Obamacare.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah. I always find that one of the funniest, it's
not actually funniest, one of the saddest things that people
don't realize that the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare are
the same. And so most people have been trying to
destroy Obamacare while also wanting to keep their Affordable Care Act,
and they don't know that they're the same.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
George, I'm telling you, when I was working for Senator
Mark Warner, who's Senator from Virginia, we would go to
the rural rural.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Parts of like southwest Virginia, which is.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Appalachia, Lunenburg, Mecklenburg Counties.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I mean, we're talking about if it's a black person there,
it's exactly one, it's exactly one.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And you know, but these are.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Very impoverished areas, so you have a lot of you know,
white people who are below the poverty line. And when
we would go there, we would do these healthcare clinics
and we talk to these people and they would be
the Republicans, Trump voters, come into this free healthcare clinic
because they were not able to get health care on
their own. And it's like, do you not understand that
you're voting against your self interest having to line up
(10:11):
come to this healthcare clinic that we as Democrats are
putting on for you because you Republicans, you keep voting
for it, want to take it away from you. Don't
want to expand these coverages for you. And so that
was just a fascinating experience of like.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
The dichotomy of I mean, and we're watching it play
out now as rural hospitals starting to close, yep, and
we're watching that base of voters start to be confused
about what they actually voted for.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Are they confused though? Because I just.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
And now back to my conversation with Greg Mathis Junior.
I guess what do you feel like your voice needs
to be during these times?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What I have been leaning into during this time. You know,
for a while, I was just I was down and out.
I was trying to figure out how do I pull
myself back to the table to be able to really
just you know, show up and continue to lead and
continue to fight this fight that we have to fight.
What I've been focusing on, is living the best version
of my life and doing that publicly and leaning into
(11:17):
my community and the people who are you know, who
I can directly touch, because at the end of the day,
I mean, the unfortunate part of it is that in
the immediate there isn't a ton of power that we
have to just stop this man from doing what he
wants to do. Obviously we have to fight that fight,
but I say that it's important for us to focus
on living. And that's what I've been using my voice
(11:38):
to say, like, continue to fight, but continue to live
your life and continue to do the things that fill
you up. Because we've talked about this privately. You know,
I check on you because I see it on you.
The work that you do, the work that we do,
is tax and you have to fill yourself up. I mean,
you're fighting legal cases against entities that have these vast resources.
(12:01):
You know, we're talking about the entire United States government
coming after you, and so to be able to fight
something of that enormity, you have to take those moments
for yourself. I mean, we look at the people who've
come before us, like James Baldwin, you know, going out
of the country to be able to really lean more
into his work and be more impactful from that standpoint. Yeah,
(12:21):
and that's really what I've been leaning up to, is
using this, as I'll say, a period of working rest
and what I worry because what's happening now is just
a roadmap for what the future is going to look
like indefinitely. That's one of the reasons I did end
up leaving working directly in politics. I saw personally the
(12:41):
things had gotten so I don't know a better word
to say other than crazy, where people weren't talking to
each other anymore.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
The issues we used to.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Be having fights over over whether we should spend this,
you know, one hundred I'll just use an example, but
one hundred dollars on medicaid or five hundred dollars on
medicaid have gone to no, let's just destroy Medicaid entirely,
you know. And so it's gotten so extreme to where
me personally, I didn't see an avenue for me fixing
the system from within. And so that's one of the
(13:11):
reasons I did end up leaving politics directly. And I said,
you know what, I know another skill I have, and
I've always been passionate about and that's speaking, that's talking,
that's using my visibility to help other people, knowing that
I had a platform that I could use, and also
knowing that I'm passionate about my creative work, you know,
acting and those projects that I think moved the culture
forward and talk about issues and really change public opinion
(13:34):
in a way that will leave us better prepared to
take on these fights in the future.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
What was it in you that knew, like, at some
point I'm doing all this political career, I want to
be an actor, and you still, I believe in this
time weren't like fully out. So I guess let's start
with the coming out.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, I mean, I will say, I mean the privilege
of this journey has been me becoming more of myself,
which I think is true for most of us. It
is that we live this life and it eventually at
a point becomes about stripping so much away from yourself
that isn't you, that's been placed on you by other people,
to become the person that you're truly meant to be.
(14:14):
And I think that that has been a big part
of my journey, you know, kind of leading up to
and definitely after coming out, not feeling like I have
to hide anything anymore, and that I can be the
person that I've truly always been. You know, it's still
some work finding that, and I don't know if you
ever find it before you leave the surf. But as
part of that journey of self discovery, I did look
back at who I was when I was younger, the
(14:35):
young version of me, and it was the creative, you know,
the dynamic person and the family that everyone's like, oh yeah,
You're definitely gonna be the entertainer, the actor. And so
when I was younger, I would do plays. I was
a ten Man and the Wizard of Ours. I was
Daddy Warbucks and Annie kind of up until I was
in high school. And then it comes to talk of like, Okay,
(14:57):
what am I going to do when I go to
co You know, what are the career paths that are
viable for me? And I definitely wanted to pursue the
entertainment route and the arts route. But the reality and
the fact is I didn't have the confidence in myself
at that point because I knew what I was hiding,
I knew what I didn't want to disclose, and for me,
(15:18):
it came to the point of I knew that I
could make money in politics.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I could to support myself.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I could you know, this is something I'm passionate about,
and I could help people at the level that I
was ready to help people at, you know, not necessarily
having to be completely vulnerable with who I was, but
still being able to have an impact. And so that
is what pushed me into the political career. Root first,
it's just not being fully comfortable with myself wanting to
(15:44):
make a check. It's like, okay, I would tell you now,
since I have made that transition to you know, the
artist part of me being an act, which is very
much just an entrepreneur, which entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Is one of the most difficult things that you can do.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
But since embarking on that journey and becoming an actor,
there isn't that stability that I had when I was
in politics, of that bi weekly.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Paycheck paycheck in a long time either.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So but even with that happening, it is the truest
version of me, like or I'm getting closer to the
truest version of me, which I think is important for
everybody's find that skill that aligns with your purpose, and
I have found that this one certainly.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Does Let's actually talk about that, like that transition, like
you said, the bi weekly paycheck, because I think a
lot of people who listen, you know, that is the
one thing that they're always trying to understand. Even my
father doesn't fully understand, like how I make money.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Even people they don't realize how difficult it is. I mean,
I know, I am just getting started out on my
creative journey.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You know, it's been about three years for me at
this point.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
But I don't know how I would be able to
survive without, you know, if I weren't in a household
where I had a partner that could help with the
bills when the work is slow or when things aren't
quite adding up, because I mean, you know, the hustle
of I see other actors and it's like you have
to have these multiple jobs and you have to have
multiple streams of income and really be entrepreneurial to live
(17:21):
your dream because although it all looks shiny and flashy,
we know that behind a lot of us in this
industry are you know, working class, working class people.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
And you were recently in a movie called Fighting to
Be Be the Dwynn Curry story where you play DJ
twin's best friend part of a criminal organization, the gay Gangsters.
This is a true crime story about a transgender fraudster.
So criminality, identity trans a movie. I mean, if there's
(17:54):
no other way to fight back against what they're trying
to silence, putting all this in one film, I think
if I think, if the administration really knew about this film,
you would be on the same way that all Boys
Are in Blue ended up at the Senate.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Trust me, I am very aware.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
But what did you feel like going into this right?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Like?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
What was how did you get approach like about the project?
The movie was great? Gives us a little bit of
like the story of doing Curry and what your fears
were in being a potation something that had a lot
of promotion right like everywhere.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So Dwyn Curry is who the movie is about, is
a phenomenal woman, a woman you know, born as a man, transition,
you know, she's now a woman. And the movie tracks
that journey for her of being born in Detroit, you know,
struggling with her identity and who she was and falling
into a life of crime and the streets. And she
(18:53):
eventually was a scammer that stole like twelve million.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I don't want to get in trouble.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
But a lot of money and so, but it shows
that kind of once she had her downfall, once she
really was able to become the full of this version
of who she really was. That her life and you
know who she is really came for a circle and
she you know, really became to thrive. And I think
that's an important story to tell. She originally because of
(19:19):
her crime. My father, Judge Greg Mathis, produces a show
on BT Plus called Trap Puss American Gangster Trapquins, and
it is basically if y'all never seen the show, it's
a great show, but it tracks the stories of infamous
women over time who have gone to prison for you know, big,
kind of outlandish crimes.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
They were like queen pins, Queen pins.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Thank you, but they were able to come home and
turn their lives around after prison and give back to
their community, similar to my dad's story. So Dwynn was
featured on this show and her episode got so much
attention that they were like, oh my god, we got
to do a movie about this. We got to do
a movie about this. This had to be maybe five
years ago, six years ago. You know, things in Hollywood.
(20:02):
Take a long long time. That happened, and so at
this point I'm on the heel. I'm like, oh great, Dad,
you know, I'm glad the show was doing well. Like
I don't really It's it's not really in my purview
even that, even though I know I've had this past
of being an actor, it's not in my perview that
this is.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Something I'm going to be doing right now.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Fast forward a few years later, at this point, you know,
Mathis Family Matters gets picked up. I'm like, oh crap,
I'm transitioning. I'm getting pulled into Hollywood to go do
this reality TV show. And at this point I'm like, okay,
well now I'm kind of interested in doing you know,
acting and returning to those roots. And at this point,
because that episode had done so well, they had started
(20:40):
really getting advanced and the talks about doing doing a
full movie and putting the movie together of how they
wanted to look.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Dwyn and I had gotten close.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Just because of her relationship with my dad, and so
I wasn't even thinking about the movie. To be completely honest,
I knew what I wanted to do. I knew I
wanted to be an acting classes So I was in
Richard Lawston studio at the time, and I study.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
With him for maybe a year and a half, I think.
And about a year after.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Me being at the studio, I think Dwynn, just because
she knew all the work I was doing, she approached
me and she was like, Hey, they got a role
in this movie. I think you'd be great for it.
It's my best friend DJ. So she set me up
with DJ. I met DJ, we kind of hung out,
I got to know him a little bit. Maybe fast
forward a few months later. Eventually after some talking begging, lobbying,
(21:26):
politic and I think dwyn actually was like, look, y'all
need to give him this part. He has been working
training in like he looks just like DJ. They have
the same spirit he is DJ, And so she really
pushed for me. My dad was an executive producer of
the film, but he was hands off mega.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
My media TRESSA Smallwood was the actual producer of the film.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So she did give me an opportunity to audition for
two roles, which was DJ and then another role in
the film. And I ended up booking the role for DJ,
which is her best friend.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
And now back to my conversation, with Greg Mathews JUNR.
So what is that experience then, like, like the movie
comes out, what are your feelings? What were I guess
your fears potentially of like backlash.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I mean even something as simple as like shit.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I don't want to get out of it. You know,
that's a reality that has happened. I mean under the
Bush administration. My father went on television and said some
stuff after Hurricane Katrina, I think, and just criticized them heavily.
You know, got a call from Warner Brothers because it
was a little over the top of what he said,
and two months later got an audit, gottenaught it that
(22:40):
cost them a lot of money. And so I think
there is inherently that fear whenever you're undertaking something like this, right,
I mean, this is not just a queer film, but
it is a film where you have a translead. Yeah,
and the film is about it's solely about this trans
woman and her life, and you know it's going on
(23:03):
bet at that this is the first in so many ways.
You know, it really is a first, and so it
definitely was something that I was very aware of, and
the lead up into the coming out of it, particularly
you know, we filmed the movie before the election, but
after that election, I'm like, shit, like it's this movie.
And I mean, movies get delayed for all types of reasons.
(23:24):
I don't know what happened behind the closed doors. Timelines
always get pushed back, but I will tell you our
timeline for that movie, roll Out got pushed back six
months from when it was supposed to come out, and
it wasn't because of it. And so I do wonder
if there were things that maybe I wasn't privy to
conversations that went on behind closed doors. That's often do
in this town about how we handle this, because I mean,
(23:47):
as we've seen, they're canceling whole you know, legendary people
who are not getting in line with what this administration
wants them to do. You know me, I'm not one
to say things just to be over the top of it,
but we really are living in a dictatorship right now
when you have a president that can strike fear in
so many people to.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Speak their truth.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
You know, we're not even talking about protesting or you know,
we're talking about us making a movie. You know, comedians
making jokes on late night television, and so it was
definitely tough. The one thing that made me feel good
about our fight in that situation is that we had
some very.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Strong allies on our side. I mean, my father made
one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And I can't express just how thankful and grateful I
am that he has made a decision to join this
fight with us. I mean, and when you think about
his base, that's not an easy.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Decision by him.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
You know, he had his relationships and the Kojik Church,
the Seventh day at Ventist Church, which he was raised in.
I mean, these are the people who support him, who
you know, hold him up, and even some of our
you know, larger organizations like the NAACP can be you know,
when you look at some of the regions, they can
be a bit regressive when it comes to the issues
like this.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
And so I ain't.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Gonna call no names, but he certainly heard from people
about like, what's this movie you're doing? You know, but
this is a decision that he has made to continue
this fight alongside me and everyone else in our community,
no matter what may come of him.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I was like, should not talk about Elliott, But I
don't like to put people on the spot.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Of course, you can talk about my husband, yes.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Talk about Elliott Elliott is amazing. So what has that
been like to be like a couple in the public
eye in a community where we know we struggle with
love and we struggle with partnership, and you know, we're
just gonna say, and you ended up with someone black
and you were black as a public figure, and it
gets skewed in the public eye.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Wow, it has been a whirlwind.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
I'm George when I tell you, these last four years,
I have probably like just grown in ways that I
feel like my body's.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
About to explode.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Like that's how it has felt. At times, I'm like,
who the hell have I become? But it's been a
beautiful thing because it's really forced me to see life
in a different way, see our union in a different way,
and put us on like stronger foundation to grow just
as individual beings, I think, but also joint beings because
it's tough. I mean, like we went from being closeted
(26:19):
basically maybe like a few of our friends knew about
our relationship.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Elliott was even more closetive than me.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
His family didn't know within the span of two years,
you know, to being on national TV, right and you know,
all of this happening to us and so like just
that in general, it's like and You're hearing all these
different opinions and comments, and I mean, I'll tell you,
one thing I discovered about myself is that I'm possessive
and I have attitude problems.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Because I'll be under them comments like what the hell
did they just say about it?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know, I have a very attractive husband, you know,
in many ways, both mentally, you know, and physically.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But and so that is something that I'm like, wait,
I ain't realize I was like this.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I thought I was usually the person that didn't really care,
it wasn't really pressed about much.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
But I'll be in them like, who the hell is
this person talking about some you look good?
Speaker 3 (27:09):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
But I think, you know, to be serious about it.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
It has been you know, partially for us, just leaning
on each other a lot and figuring out how to
navigate that emotional space of just how quickly we went
from not sharing so much with so many people and
having these facades up of who we were to now
just everything is ripped wide open. And so my approach,
(27:35):
even from the beginning before we did math as family matters,
I mean, you just have to be genuine.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
You got to be who you are.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And that's the number one thing I continue to remind
myself of is like, regardless of what people say, regardless
of what people do to you, the only choice, quite frankly,
that you have is to be yourself. And you know
that can be difficult when people are constantly critiquing you
and critiquing your partner and throwing things at you. So
you have to find the things which we do that
(28:04):
fill us back up and to make sure that we're
taking care of ourselves, taking care of each other, because
it's not easy. People are vicious out there, and you know,
before we did Matthew's Family Matters, we actually had I
had a friend who works in politics, and you know,
there's a lot of this that goes on. But he's
ten years older than me and he's still closeted to
this day.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
But he.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
You know, he when I talked to him about doing
the show before I did the show decided to do it,
he was like, you know, you and Elliott could just
go on the show and just be friends. You don't
have to explain who he is or what he is.
Because I'm like, well, how am I going to handle this?
Because this is a person that's in my life, that's
going to continue to be in my life. He's like, well,
he could just be around and be a family friend,
(28:47):
and I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Like, hey, that's just not who I am.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I got to be genuine if I'm presenting myself to
all of these people. And I think at that point
in my life, I was so sick and tired of
hiding and lying and the smoking mirrors. That just didn't
make sense to me. And I know how important it
is to be visible. And when Elliot and I did
put ourselves out there in that way, we got so
many messages from parents, children of parents that talked about
(29:12):
how seeing our relationship on TV, seeing my relationship with
my father, seeing you know, that, help them mend their
relationship with their children, help that child, you know, have
a connection with their parent that they never had before.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And that was the result that I knew that we
could reach.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
And I'm so happy that we chose that and to
continue to be visible as opposed to shrinking the wood,
because it really does help save people's lives.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
People know. I used to have a column called George
is Tired, where weekly I just would write about what the.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Hell I was tired of that thing might be enovel?
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Right, is there anything that greg radthe Junior is tired of?
And it can be important, it could be silly, it
can be whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
But how do I put this in the right words?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I'm tired of everybody faking the funk when it comes
to acting like they don't know what's going on in
this country. And I guess that maybe just means I'm
tired of Republicans, tired of white people.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I don't know, but.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I'm tired of them acting like we don't deserve what
we deserve and that you know, this country doesn't need
a huge overhaul.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You know, we've been fighting this fight.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
For decades upon decades, and so I'm just tired of it.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, but I'm not gonna stop. Tired, but I'm not
gonna stop.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
That is perfect. Any words you want to leave, words
of wisdom, words of mantras that you live by. I'm
a big quote person, so I love a good quote.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, Lee would love, Lee would love And I
know that's cliche, but that's my quote. Please see, y'all.
I know it's tough out here. I know that we
are being beat up from all sides. And I know
that what that can do to a person. I know
what it does to me. But find those ways to
feel yourself back up so that we can come back
to this fight full and with love, not only you know,
(31:04):
loving on ourselves, but on our community. I mean, I
think our community can use it to you, George. So
just love on each other, love on yourselves, and let's
keep fighting.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Greg.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Thank you for coming on Fighting Words today.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Thank you, George. I love you and I hope to
see you soon. Yes you will.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yes. Fighting Words is production of iHeart podcast in partnership
with Best Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This episode was
produced by Charlotte Morley. Executive producers are myself and Twetey
(31:46):
Puchi Guar Songs with Adam Pinkins and Brick Cats for
Best Case Studios. The theme song was written and composed
by cole Vas Bambianna and myself. Original music by Covas.
This episode was edited and scored by Michelle Macklin. Our
iHeart team is Ally Perry and Karl Ketel. Following Rape,
(32:07):
Fighting Word, Wherever you get your Podcast
Part of that journey of self discovery. I did look
back at who I was when I was younger, the
young version of me, and it was the creative, you know,
the dynamic person and the family that everyone's like, oh yeah,
you're definitely gonna be the entertainer.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
The actor.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Greg Mathis Junior is an actor whose latest role is
in the movie Fighting to Be Me The Dwyn Curry Story.
It's a true crime biopic that tells the story of
the transgender fashion icon and fraudster Dwynn Curry and her
criminal organization, the Gay Gangsters. In it, Greg Mathis Junior
plays the role of DJ, dwyn Curry's close friend.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
I think dwyn actually was like, look, y'all need to
give him this part. He has been working training like
he looks just like DJ. They have the same spirit.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
He is DJ.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Singing in the heavy and.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Take a sip of Brandy Spook the guy you know
what the plan is of Kama Latin.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
You know one doesn't understand me. My name is Georgiam Johnson.
I am the New York Times best selling author of
the book All Boys Aren't Blue, which is the number
one most challenged book in the United States. This is
Fighting Words, a show where we take you to the
front lines of the culture wars with the people who
are using their words to make change and who refuse
(01:25):
to be silent. Today's guest, Greg mathis Junior. I'm here
today with my good friend Greg Matthis junior. I want
to welcome you to the show. How are you feeling today?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
I'm feeling good. Actually, I had a good weekend.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
The day is off to a nice start and I
get to hang out with you for a little bit,
so I got no complaints. We're gonna lead with positivity today.
That's you know, we just got to pull ourselves up.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Could you just let everybody listening know who is Greg Mathews.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
I am a black queer man that is trying to
make this world a better place for people like me.
I think growing up, obviously, service was instilled in me
from my father, because you know, he has had a
long history of working to change the way this country
and world that we live in operates and make it
better for black people in general and mass and I
(02:23):
think that's something that really has just been ingrained in
me from a younger age. Is trying to really, you know,
look deep within me and find out what skills I
have that can accomplish that goal. You know, that really
is my purpose.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah, the first question is what is that like growing
up semi in the public eye, When you grow up
with your father on TV for twenty plus years, I'm
sure it can have an effect on how you grow up,
how people view you. And you have his name, you
didn't have even more added pressure.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
That's the that's the part that we have hid me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You know what's funny, George is, before I talk about
my experience, I will start by saying that my father
even before I was born, but he did not want
to name me Greg Mathis Junior. My mom was like,
I think we should. I think it's beautiful. You know,
it's you know, it's a legacy. This is your first son.
And he was saying, you know, I don't want him
to feel like he will have to live up to
(03:21):
the expectations of me, of who I am. I want
him to be able to live his own life.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
You know.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
He obviously made the decision to name me after him,
and he had a friend with one of his He
had a conversation with one of his good friends who
basically convinced him of like, look man, anybody that wants
to put that on him, you know, your legacy, whoever
you are. Because even back then, in nineteen eighty nine
when I was born, my father was prominent in Detroit.
He was, you know, working for the mayor. He was
(03:47):
big in politics. He ran the Reverend Jesse Jackson's campaign
in Michigan, which was the only northern state they won
for his presidential campaign. So he was pretty prominent even
at that point, and so he really struggled with it
how I've carried it and how it's kind of led
into my experiences. Like I talked about, even from a
young age, he was prominent in Detroit, So I don't
(04:08):
really know what it feels.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Like to not be an guy, if that makes sense.
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I always trends, you know, related to maybe like a
bigger version of being a preacher's kid.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
Where even when I.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Was in you know, elementary school, middle school, kindergarten, it
was my dad was the judge. And because he was
a real judge before he was a television judge, which
a lot of people don't know. So my dad, like
I said, he was a big figure in Detroit.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
He was judge.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Mathis at thirty six District Court in Detroit, and before
that he was working for the mayor Comban Young, who
was a huge political figure in Detroit, you know, and
kind of nationally at that time also that talked about
how he ran Reverend Jesse Jackson's campaign, and so there
is always that feeling of like, Okay, well, you can't
make any mistakes because any mistakes that you make are
(04:57):
going to, you know, be directly placed on my father,
my family.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Everybody's looking at me. I was the judges son.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
If I get in trouble at school, everybody's talking about
it at school.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
You know. My parents' friends and.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
People who are rivals to them, you know, they take
that information and it's gossip. And so there's always kind
of i'll call it a sixth sense that's hanging over you,
just to make sure you don't say anything that can
bring shame or embarrassment to the family. I think as
I've gotten older, I've learned to carry a lot less
of that, and you know, that's what the encouragement of
my parents and our old family, because we're all in
(05:32):
this together. And that's a blessing actually, because a lot
of people who get thrust into the public eye don't
have that, you know. I've heard you talk about this
on some of your other episodes, just how it can
be taxing that being the public guy, particularly when you're
doing the work like we do, which is social justice work,
and you're committed to changing you know, the world and
fighting the powers that be, which is also a legacy
(05:52):
that my dad has created for himself. And so I
think for a lot of us in our family we
have that luxury of being a were too lean on
each other and understand what it feels like. I understand
what it is. We're a lot of people who are
just kind of a celebrity in their own right, or
like you, who's a public figure in your own right.
It can be difficult to have to carry that alone
(06:14):
or not have a family or huge support system to
kind of coach you through some of the things that
come with things in the public.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
God, now you at a reality TV show, Yes, so
some people probably have met you there, some people may
have met you in some of the films you've been in.
But before that, you worked in policy in DC.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Yes, for ten years. Actually I worked in policy in DC.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Which is crazy though, because I know you lived in
and we never crossed halfs the entire time. But honestly,
it's probably my fault because during that time I was
closeted or living a life where I wasn't fully open.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
And I was in the streets with Preston mentioned so
we definitely were not crossing paths because wherever there was
a gay club, a gay bar, or a gay party. Pressed.
So what did you do when you were working in
policy in DC?
Speaker 1 (07:09):
After undergrad When I came down to DC, the first
person I worked for was actually Jesse Jackson Junior. I
worked in this Congression of office and that was one
the Obama years, and it was I mean, we talk
about how it's difficult to be living in the time
we're living in now, just you know, everything that we're facing,
and when I think about how I feel now, I mean,
that was just a complete flip side of this. Yeah,
(07:30):
it feels like the good you know, it's just the
glory days of when I got on the hill. Jesse
Jackson Junior was the co chair of Obama's campaign. I
ended up actually working on the campaign for his re
election campaign. We were able to just get a lot
of really good things done. I was doing domestic policy issues,
So one of the things that I did work on
was the Affordable Care Act, which in my opinion, is
(07:52):
one of the most important things we have done for
the Black community maybe this decade, I want to say.
And I say that because healthcare, when we think about
the financial burden of it, is such a you know,
it can really be a socioeconomic divider.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
You know, when I was when I came to working
on the Hill, bankruptcy having a health care issue was
the number one cause of bankruptcy. Wow, and we know
who that falls on. It was the number one cause
of bankruptcy, and that fell on black, brown, low income Americans.
And so the Affordable Care Act comes in and basically says,
(08:32):
you know what, you don't have to have an employer
giving you healthcare coverage.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
We're going to provide that healthcare coverage. And it's safe lives.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's say, you know, it's put black people and brown
people and poor people on much stronger financial footing.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And so that was.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Probably the crown jewel of my work there, just being
able to really not only be a part of passing
that law, be a part of defending the legislation against
multiple attacks that I was on the Senate floor that
John McCain was there and we were fighting with the
Republicans and we were finally able to convince him to
vote no on.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
The repeal in Obamacare.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Yeah. I always find that one of the funniest, it's
not actually funniest, one of the saddest things that people
don't realize that the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare are
the same. And so most people have been trying to
destroy Obamacare while also wanting to keep their Affordable Care Act,
and they don't know that they're the same.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
George, I'm telling you, when I was working for Senator
Mark Warner, who's Senator from Virginia, we would go to
the rural rural.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Parts of like southwest Virginia, which is.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
Appalachia, Lunenburg, Mecklenburg Counties.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I mean, we're talking about if it's a black person there,
it's exactly one, it's exactly one.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And you know, but these are.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Very impoverished areas, so you have a lot of you know,
white people who are below the poverty line. And when
we would go there, we would do these healthcare clinics
and we talk to these people and they would be
the Republicans, Trump voters, come into this free healthcare clinic
because they were not able to get health care on
their own. And it's like, do you not understand that
you're voting against your self interest having to line up
(10:11):
come to this healthcare clinic that we as Democrats are
putting on for you because you Republicans, you keep voting
for it, want to take it away from you. Don't
want to expand these coverages for you. And so that
was just a fascinating experience of like.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
The dichotomy of I mean, and we're watching it play
out now as rural hospitals starting to close, yep, and
we're watching that base of voters start to be confused
about what they actually voted for.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Are they confused though? Because I just.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
And now back to my conversation with Greg Mathis Junior.
I guess what do you feel like your voice needs
to be during these times?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:56):
What I have been leaning into during this time. You know,
for a while, I was just I was down and out.
I was trying to figure out how do I pull
myself back to the table to be able to really
just you know, show up and continue to lead and
continue to fight this fight that we have to fight.
What I've been focusing on, is living the best version
of my life and doing that publicly and leaning into
(11:17):
my community and the people who are you know, who
I can directly touch, because at the end of the day,
I mean, the unfortunate part of it is that in
the immediate there isn't a ton of power that we
have to just stop this man from doing what he
wants to do. Obviously we have to fight that fight,
but I say that it's important for us to focus
on living. And that's what I've been using my voice
(11:38):
to say, like, continue to fight, but continue to live
your life and continue to do the things that fill
you up. Because we've talked about this privately. You know,
I check on you because I see it on you.
The work that you do, the work that we do,
is tax and you have to fill yourself up. I mean,
you're fighting legal cases against entities that have these vast resources.
(12:01):
You know, we're talking about the entire United States government
coming after you, and so to be able to fight
something of that enormity, you have to take those moments
for yourself. I mean, we look at the people who've
come before us, like James Baldwin, you know, going out
of the country to be able to really lean more
into his work and be more impactful from that standpoint. Yeah,
(12:21):
and that's really what I've been leaning up to, is
using this, as I'll say, a period of working rest
and what I worry because what's happening now is just
a roadmap for what the future is going to look
like indefinitely. That's one of the reasons I did end
up leaving working directly in politics. I saw personally the
(12:41):
things had gotten so I don't know a better word
to say other than crazy, where people weren't talking to
each other anymore.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
The issues we used to.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Be having fights over over whether we should spend this,
you know, one hundred I'll just use an example, but
one hundred dollars on medicaid or five hundred dollars on
medicaid have gone to no, let's just destroy Medicaid entirely,
you know. And so it's gotten so extreme to where
me personally, I didn't see an avenue for me fixing
the system from within. And so that's one of the
(13:11):
reasons I did end up leaving politics directly. And I said,
you know what, I know another skill I have, and
I've always been passionate about and that's speaking, that's talking,
that's using my visibility to help other people, knowing that
I had a platform that I could use, and also
knowing that I'm passionate about my creative work, you know,
acting and those projects that I think moved the culture
forward and talk about issues and really change public opinion
(13:34):
in a way that will leave us better prepared to
take on these fights in the future.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
What was it in you that knew, like, at some
point I'm doing all this political career, I want to
be an actor, and you still, I believe in this
time weren't like fully out. So I guess let's start
with the coming out.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yeah, I mean, I will say, I mean the privilege
of this journey has been me becoming more of myself,
which I think is true for most of us. It
is that we live this life and it eventually at
a point becomes about stripping so much away from yourself
that isn't you, that's been placed on you by other people,
to become the person that you're truly meant to be.
(14:14):
And I think that that has been a big part
of my journey, you know, kind of leading up to
and definitely after coming out, not feeling like I have
to hide anything anymore, and that I can be the
person that I've truly always been. You know, it's still
some work finding that, and I don't know if you
ever find it before you leave the surf. But as
part of that journey of self discovery, I did look
back at who I was when I was younger, the
(14:35):
young version of me, and it was the creative, you know,
the dynamic person and the family that everyone's like, oh yeah,
You're definitely gonna be the entertainer, the actor. And so
when I was younger, I would do plays. I was
a ten Man and the Wizard of Ours. I was
Daddy Warbucks and Annie kind of up until I was
in high school. And then it comes to talk of like, Okay,
(14:57):
what am I going to do when I go to
co You know, what are the career paths that are
viable for me? And I definitely wanted to pursue the
entertainment route and the arts route. But the reality and
the fact is I didn't have the confidence in myself
at that point because I knew what I was hiding,
I knew what I didn't want to disclose, and for me,
(15:18):
it came to the point of I knew that I
could make money in politics.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I could to support myself.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
I could you know, this is something I'm passionate about,
and I could help people at the level that I
was ready to help people at, you know, not necessarily
having to be completely vulnerable with who I was, but
still being able to have an impact. And so that
is what pushed me into the political career. Root first,
it's just not being fully comfortable with myself wanting to
(15:44):
make a check. It's like, okay, I would tell you now,
since I have made that transition to you know, the
artist part of me being an act, which is very
much just an entrepreneur, which entrepreneurship.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Is one of the most difficult things that you can do.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
But since embarking on that journey and becoming an actor,
there isn't that stability that I had when I was
in politics, of that bi weekly.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Paycheck paycheck in a long time either.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
So but even with that happening, it is the truest
version of me, like or I'm getting closer to the
truest version of me, which I think is important for
everybody's find that skill that aligns with your purpose, and
I have found that this one certainly.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
Does Let's actually talk about that, like that transition, like
you said, the bi weekly paycheck, because I think a
lot of people who listen, you know, that is the
one thing that they're always trying to understand. Even my
father doesn't fully understand, like how I make money.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Even people they don't realize how difficult it is. I mean,
I know, I am just getting started out on my
creative journey.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
You know, it's been about three years for me at
this point.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
But I don't know how I would be able to
survive without, you know, if I weren't in a household
where I had a partner that could help with the
bills when the work is slow or when things aren't
quite adding up, because I mean, you know, the hustle
of I see other actors and it's like you have
to have these multiple jobs and you have to have
multiple streams of income and really be entrepreneurial to live
(17:21):
your dream because although it all looks shiny and flashy,
we know that behind a lot of us in this
industry are you know, working class, working class people.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
And you were recently in a movie called Fighting to
Be Be the Dwynn Curry story where you play DJ
twin's best friend part of a criminal organization, the gay Gangsters.
This is a true crime story about a transgender fraudster.
So criminality, identity trans a movie. I mean, if there's
(17:54):
no other way to fight back against what they're trying
to silence, putting all this in one film, I think
if I think, if the administration really knew about this film,
you would be on the same way that all Boys
Are in Blue ended up at the Senate.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Trust me, I am very aware.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
But what did you feel like going into this right?
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Like?
Speaker 3 (18:17):
What was how did you get approach like about the project?
The movie was great? Gives us a little bit of
like the story of doing Curry and what your fears
were in being a potation something that had a lot
of promotion right like everywhere.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
So Dwyn Curry is who the movie is about, is
a phenomenal woman, a woman you know, born as a man, transition,
you know, she's now a woman. And the movie tracks
that journey for her of being born in Detroit, you know,
struggling with her identity and who she was and falling
into a life of crime and the streets. And she
(18:53):
eventually was a scammer that stole like twelve million.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I don't want to get in trouble.
Speaker 1 (18:57):
But a lot of money and so, but it shows
that kind of once she had her downfall, once she
really was able to become the full of this version
of who she really was. That her life and you
know who she is really came for a circle and
she you know, really became to thrive. And I think
that's an important story to tell. She originally because of
(19:19):
her crime. My father, Judge Greg Mathis, produces a show
on BT Plus called Trap Puss American Gangster Trapquins, and
it is basically if y'all never seen the show, it's
a great show, but it tracks the stories of infamous
women over time who have gone to prison for you know, big,
kind of outlandish crimes.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
They were like queen pins, Queen pins.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Thank you, but they were able to come home and
turn their lives around after prison and give back to
their community, similar to my dad's story. So Dwynn was
featured on this show and her episode got so much
attention that they were like, oh my god, we got
to do a movie about this. We got to do
a movie about this. This had to be maybe five
years ago, six years ago. You know, things in Hollywood.
(20:02):
Take a long long time. That happened, and so at
this point I'm on the heel. I'm like, oh great, Dad,
you know, I'm glad the show was doing well. Like
I don't really It's it's not really in my purview
even that, even though I know I've had this past
of being an actor, it's not in my perview that
this is.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Something I'm going to be doing right now.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Fast forward a few years later, at this point, you know,
Mathis Family Matters gets picked up. I'm like, oh crap,
I'm transitioning. I'm getting pulled into Hollywood to go do
this reality TV show. And at this point I'm like, okay,
well now I'm kind of interested in doing you know,
acting and returning to those roots. And at this point,
because that episode had done so well, they had started
(20:40):
really getting advanced and the talks about doing doing a
full movie and putting the movie together of how they
wanted to look.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Dwyn and I had gotten close.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Just because of her relationship with my dad, and so
I wasn't even thinking about the movie. To be completely honest,
I knew what I wanted to do. I knew I
wanted to be an acting classes So I was in
Richard Lawston studio at the time, and I study.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
With him for maybe a year and a half, I think.
And about a year after.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Me being at the studio, I think Dwynn, just because
she knew all the work I was doing, she approached
me and she was like, Hey, they got a role
in this movie. I think you'd be great for it.
It's my best friend DJ. So she set me up
with DJ. I met DJ, we kind of hung out,
I got to know him a little bit. Maybe fast
forward a few months later. Eventually after some talking begging, lobbying,
(21:26):
politic and I think dwyn actually was like, look, y'all
need to give him this part. He has been working
training in like he looks just like DJ. They have
the same spirit he is DJ, And so she really
pushed for me. My dad was an executive producer of
the film, but he was hands off mega.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
My media TRESSA Smallwood was the actual producer of the film.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
So she did give me an opportunity to audition for
two roles, which was DJ and then another role in
the film. And I ended up booking the role for DJ,
which is her best friend.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
And now back to my conversation, with Greg Mathews JUNR.
So what is that experience then, like, like the movie
comes out, what are your feelings? What were I guess
your fears potentially of like backlash.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I mean even something as simple as like shit.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
I don't want to get out of it. You know,
that's a reality that has happened. I mean under the
Bush administration. My father went on television and said some
stuff after Hurricane Katrina, I think, and just criticized them heavily.
You know, got a call from Warner Brothers because it
was a little over the top of what he said,
and two months later got an audit, gottenaught it that
(22:40):
cost them a lot of money. And so I think
there is inherently that fear whenever you're undertaking something like this, right,
I mean, this is not just a queer film, but
it is a film where you have a translead. Yeah,
and the film is about it's solely about this trans
woman and her life, and you know it's going on
(23:03):
bet at that this is the first in so many ways.
You know, it really is a first, and so it
definitely was something that I was very aware of, and
the lead up into the coming out of it, particularly
you know, we filmed the movie before the election, but
after that election, I'm like, shit, like it's this movie.
And I mean, movies get delayed for all types of reasons.
(23:24):
I don't know what happened behind the closed doors. Timelines
always get pushed back, but I will tell you our
timeline for that movie, roll Out got pushed back six
months from when it was supposed to come out, and
it wasn't because of it. And so I do wonder
if there were things that maybe I wasn't privy to
conversations that went on behind closed doors. That's often do
in this town about how we handle this, because I mean,
(23:47):
as we've seen, they're canceling whole you know, legendary people
who are not getting in line with what this administration
wants them to do. You know me, I'm not one
to say things just to be over the top of it,
but we really are living in a dictatorship right now
when you have a president that can strike fear in
so many people to.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Speak their truth.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
You know, we're not even talking about protesting or you know,
we're talking about us making a movie. You know, comedians
making jokes on late night television, and so it was
definitely tough. The one thing that made me feel good
about our fight in that situation is that we had
some very.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Strong allies on our side. I mean, my father made
one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
And I can't express just how thankful and grateful I
am that he has made a decision to join this
fight with us. I mean, and when you think about
his base, that's not an easy.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Decision by him.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
You know, he had his relationships and the Kojik Church,
the Seventh day at Ventist Church, which he was raised in.
I mean, these are the people who support him, who
you know, hold him up, and even some of our
you know, larger organizations like the NAACP can be you know,
when you look at some of the regions, they can
be a bit regressive when it comes to the issues
like this.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
And so I ain't.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Gonna call no names, but he certainly heard from people
about like, what's this movie you're doing? You know, but
this is a decision that he has made to continue
this fight alongside me and everyone else in our community,
no matter what may come of him.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
I was like, should not talk about Elliott, But I
don't like to put people on the spot.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Of course, you can talk about my husband, yes.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Talk about Elliott Elliott is amazing. So what has that
been like to be like a couple in the public
eye in a community where we know we struggle with
love and we struggle with partnership, and you know, we're
just gonna say, and you ended up with someone black
and you were black as a public figure, and it
gets skewed in the public eye.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
Wow, it has been a whirlwind.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
I'm George when I tell you, these last four years,
I have probably like just grown in ways that I
feel like my body's.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
About to explode.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Like that's how it has felt. At times, I'm like,
who the hell have I become? But it's been a
beautiful thing because it's really forced me to see life
in a different way, see our union in a different way,
and put us on like stronger foundation to grow just
as individual beings, I think, but also joint beings because
it's tough. I mean, like we went from being closeted
(26:19):
basically maybe like a few of our friends knew about
our relationship.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Elliott was even more closetive than me.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
His family didn't know within the span of two years,
you know, to being on national TV, right and you know,
all of this happening to us and so like just
that in general, it's like and You're hearing all these
different opinions and comments, and I mean, I'll tell you,
one thing I discovered about myself is that I'm possessive
and I have attitude problems.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
Because I'll be under them comments like what the hell
did they just say about it?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
You know, I have a very attractive husband, you know,
in many ways, both mentally, you know, and physically.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But and so that is something that I'm like, wait,
I ain't realize I was like this.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I thought I was usually the person that didn't really care,
it wasn't really pressed about much.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
But I'll be in them like, who the hell is
this person talking about some you look good?
Speaker 3 (27:09):
That's hilarious.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
But I think, you know, to be serious about it.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
It has been you know, partially for us, just leaning
on each other a lot and figuring out how to
navigate that emotional space of just how quickly we went
from not sharing so much with so many people and
having these facades up of who we were to now
just everything is ripped wide open. And so my approach,
(27:35):
even from the beginning before we did math as family matters,
I mean, you just have to be genuine.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
You got to be who you are.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
And that's the number one thing I continue to remind
myself of is like, regardless of what people say, regardless
of what people do to you, the only choice, quite frankly,
that you have is to be yourself. And you know
that can be difficult when people are constantly critiquing you
and critiquing your partner and throwing things at you. So
you have to find the things which we do that
(28:04):
fill us back up and to make sure that we're
taking care of ourselves, taking care of each other, because
it's not easy. People are vicious out there, and you know,
before we did Matthew's Family Matters, we actually had I
had a friend who works in politics, and you know,
there's a lot of this that goes on. But he's
ten years older than me and he's still closeted to
this day.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
But he.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
You know, he when I talked to him about doing
the show before I did the show decided to do it,
he was like, you know, you and Elliott could just
go on the show and just be friends. You don't
have to explain who he is or what he is.
Because I'm like, well, how am I going to handle this?
Because this is a person that's in my life, that's
going to continue to be in my life. He's like, well,
he could just be around and be a family friend,
(28:47):
and I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
Like, hey, that's just not who I am.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
I got to be genuine if I'm presenting myself to
all of these people. And I think at that point
in my life, I was so sick and tired of
hiding and lying and the smoking mirrors. That just didn't
make sense to me. And I know how important it
is to be visible. And when Elliot and I did
put ourselves out there in that way, we got so
many messages from parents, children of parents that talked about
(29:12):
how seeing our relationship on TV, seeing my relationship with
my father, seeing you know, that, help them mend their
relationship with their children, help that child, you know, have
a connection with their parent that they never had before.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
And that was the result that I knew that we
could reach.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
And I'm so happy that we chose that and to
continue to be visible as opposed to shrinking the wood,
because it really does help save people's lives.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
People know. I used to have a column called George
is Tired, where weekly I just would write about what the.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Hell I was tired of that thing might be enovel?
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Right, is there anything that greg radthe Junior is tired of?
And it can be important, it could be silly, it
can be whatever.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
But how do I put this in the right words?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
I'm tired of everybody faking the funk when it comes
to acting like they don't know what's going on in
this country. And I guess that maybe just means I'm
tired of Republicans, tired of white people.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I don't know, but.
Speaker 1 (30:17):
I'm tired of them acting like we don't deserve what
we deserve and that you know, this country doesn't need
a huge overhaul.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
You know, we've been fighting this fight.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
For decades upon decades, and so I'm just tired of it.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, but I'm not gonna stop. Tired, but I'm not
gonna stop.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
That is perfect. Any words you want to leave, words
of wisdom, words of mantras that you live by. I'm
a big quote person, so I love a good quote.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, yeah, Lee would love, Lee would love And I
know that's cliche, but that's my quote. Please see, y'all.
I know it's tough out here. I know that we
are being beat up from all sides. And I know
that what that can do to a person. I know
what it does to me. But find those ways to
feel yourself back up so that we can come back
to this fight full and with love, not only you know,
(31:04):
loving on ourselves, but on our community. I mean, I
think our community can use it to you, George. So
just love on each other, love on yourselves, and let's
keep fighting.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Love that.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Greg.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
Thank you for coming on Fighting Words today.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
Thank you, George. I love you and I hope to
see you soon. Yes you will.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yes. Fighting Words is production of iHeart podcast in partnership
with Best Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This episode was
produced by Charlotte Morley. Executive producers are myself and Twetey
(31:46):
Puchi Guar Songs with Adam Pinkins and Brick Cats for
Best Case Studios. The theme song was written and composed
by cole Vas Bambianna and myself. Original music by Covas.
This episode was edited and scored by Michelle Macklin. Our
iHeart team is Ally Perry and Karl Ketel. Following Rape,
(32:07):
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