September 9, 2025 • 36 mins
Today, we return to one of our favorite conversations, with iconic comedian, drag queen and author, Bob the Drag Queen.
Bob tells George to discuss his new novel Harriet Tubman: Live in Concert, losing his mother right before filming the Emmy award-winning reality show Traitors, and why we need more class solidarity. This episode's Queer Artist Spotlight is on "Queen of the Underground", one of Bob's two original songs that come with the audio version of his new book.
This episode was edited and scored by Mitra Kaboli.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
The thing about Hamilton is that Hamilton is more narrative storytelling,
and they just happened to be rapping. And I wanted
hairtub to be a rapper, Like it's not just like
we're telling a story and she's rapping.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Like Harriet Tubman is actively.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Pursuing a career in music and tried to do her
abolition work while doing it through hip hop.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's Bob the Drag Queen. Since winning season eight a
root called Drag Race, Bob has recorded two stand up
comedy specials, starting shows like We're Here and Traders NMC
a world tour for Madonna. Now he's released his debut novel,
Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. In it, the Great Harriet
Tubman is a live and present day and she has bars.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It wasn't about vanity for her. It wasn't about the glory.
It was about freedom. That was the overarching goal. The
freedom was.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
The start.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Handed to put the world take a sip of brand
new spoke the guy who know what the plan is.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
One doesn't understand me. My name is Georgiam Johnson. I
am the New York Times bestselling author of the book
All Boys Aren't Blue, which is the number one most
challenged book in the United States. This is Fighting Words,
a show where we take you to the front lines
of the culture wars with the people who are using
their words to make change and who refuse to be silenced.
(01:37):
On today's episode, Bob the Drag Queen.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You ready, Bob Ye? Cool?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Hello everyone. I want to welcome you all to another
episode of Fighting Words. I am here today with Bob
the Drag Queen. Who if you wanted to tell someone
in an elevator pitch, or if you got stuck in
an elevator with Beyonce O Rihanna and they were like,
who are you? Who is Bob the drag.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Queen, I would be really sure. I said, my name
is Bob the drag Queen. I'm a standout comedian. That's
really the whole that's the whole pitch. That's harry that
it's not more intense than that. But like, my name
is Bob the drag quon std comedian.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
But to me, I mean it tells you a lot
about me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I just told you I'm a drag quid and I
told you I'm a comedian, and those are really like
professionally speaking the two biggest I would say indicators about me.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You grew up in the South, and interestly enough, your
mom she owned a drag bar correct.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, called Sensations in Columbus, Georgia.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah yeah. So what was that experience.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Like, Well, because I was a child, I didn't actually
go to the club, and except for during the day
when when they were like cleaning it and like doing.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Like office stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
A big part of the process for me as a
kid was a bunch of lesbians in my living room
in Fittix Catey, Alabama, planning to create this club. That's
that's the main memories that I have to be honest.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
So then what was your first like introduction into drag
for yourself?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
First time I ever, technically dad drag was in college.
Technically was in high school. On crossdress day for a
spirit week, we did crossdres Day and I wore my well,
I think we had to go to the thrift store
because I was much larger than my mother. I mean,
I've been six foot two since I was in seventh grade,
so I was a very tall person. But I was
(03:21):
really skinny, so I might have actually and my mother
didn't really wear very feminine clothes because again, a bunch
of lesbians planning a club. So I think my cousin
Amanda was living with at the time, and she has
pretty big feet. So I wore some of her pay
less shoes, and I think I went to the thrift store.
My mom bought me a skirt and I remember wearing
my mom's brawl. Didn't have a wig, but I had
some tracks, so I pinned the tracks to my hair. Yes,
(03:44):
I have hair. I pinned the tracks to my hair,
and then I tied a bandana over my head. I
kind of looked like Daria.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So you have a new book called Harriet Tubny Live
in Concole.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Now we talk about Miss Harriet a lot, whether it's Twitter,
whether it's social media, whether it's if she had a
nice crown on her head in a nice dress when
she was trying to take slaves to freedo. Harriet Tubman
comes up a lot in conversations all around the internet streets.
Where did the idea come from?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Okay, so I have a lot of silly ideas. My
brain will birth an idea and then I guess I
have to do my own mental gymnastics to figure out
if this as an idea worth pursuing, or if it
was just a silly thought that I had. And I've
always loved Harry Tupping. Every time there was a Black
History Month report or anything, I was going to choose
my person, it was always going to be Harry Tubbing.
If I just love, love, love her story, it's quite
(04:43):
literally unbelievable. Your mind is kind of like, there's no way,
there's no way this happened.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I've read about her a lot too. Yeah, she lived
a lot of lives.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And she lived really long, Like the literal life she
lived was longer than most people ever live. And the
more you read about her story, you're like, no way,
no way, no way. But there's so many sources being
like absolutely absolutely her claims are corroborated throughout history. And
I also love hip hop music. I love writing rap
(05:14):
music listening to it. And then I was I was
doing Angels in America at the Birthrow Optory Theater and
the idea came to me there. I don't even know
how it came to me, but I just thought to myself,
I would love to hear Harrod Tubban's album. I want
to see it and I deserve It.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Was like the Broadway play like Hamilton in mind at
all when you were thinking about this and like how
we can creatively rewrite history.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I mean maybe, but the thing about Hamilton is that
Hamilton is more narrative storytelling, and they just happened to
be rapping. And I wanted Hairtubban to be a rapper
like Herod. It's not just like we're telling a story
and she's rapping like Harrod. Tubban is actively pursuing a
career in music and trying to do her abolition work
(05:56):
while doing it through hip hop. African American culture is
one of the most far reaching cultures there is in
the world, and hip hop is one of the biggest
kind of muis there is. So if every time I
wants to reach blite people, it's gonna make some hip
hop you know all that. Well, nowadays either you're doing
country or you.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Know, right, you could jam a blend exactly. I know.
For me, like anytime I'm writing a new book, I
really outlined the book first and like go through like
all of these different processes, and I also choose a
certain album that I listened to throughout the entire time
I'm writing it. What was your creative process, like for
writing this book.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
That's such a smart process. I should probably adopt that,
especially the outlining part. I was writing it as it
came to me. I was like it was flowing through
my fingers as I was clicking, like clacking. I didn't
know what the end of the book was until I
got to the end of the book.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
You know. Wow. Actually didn't even know how it start
until I started typing. I literally didn't even know.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Before going into this. Were there any books that inspired
you or any authors that you kind of were like, ooh,
this is an author who will help kind of shape
how I want to.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Have you heard of The Good Lord Bird?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I don't think so?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Uh okay, So The Good Lord Bird was my biggest
inspiration for this book. It's by James McBride. It's the
historical fiction piece about John Brown, the abolitionist, Yes, the
abolitionist yep. And in his mad Man abolition work, he
ends up kidnapping this this young man who's enslaved person
because his father ends up dying in a fight that
(07:20):
John Brown is in and then he's like, you don't
have a family, so you're you're coming.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
With me now?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Then in this journey, John Brown thinks that this little
boy is a girl. So this little boy has to
live as a girl for a couple of years, and
he's afraid of being found out that he's actually a boy.
But he's not trans, he's not queer. Yeah, he's just
a really pretty boy. And John Brown thought he was
(07:44):
a girl and now he has live as a girl.
And it's so absurd but also so funny but also
really heart wrenching. Like it's good, It's a really good
but I strongly recommend it is a book that is
genuinely hard to put down.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Okay, and from that you able to, I guess, glean
upon like how you wanted to make like with your storytelling.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, when I was an Angels in America, I played
Belize and he talks about a fake books. It's a
book that's created for the play. He says, it's historical fiction.
And I love this idea of like writing fiction but
including real people just making up things they were doing,
you know what I mean. And I just thought that
was such an interesting concept. That was another big inspiration
(08:26):
for me. Tony Kushner's made up book in Angels of
America and I think it's called in Love with the
Night Mysterious.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I believe that's the name of it.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
So yeah, I was just kind of like pulling from
inspiration from that, and I liked how absurd this story was,
how crazy it sounded. And I also like to write
the kind of books that I would want to read,
you know what I mean. Yes, even started with the
title that is a title that I would see and
I would be like, I want. I was actually torn
between two titles Queen of the Underground Harry Tubman Queen
of the Underground, which is the name.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Of her album.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Her album is called Queen of the Underground Love, so
her album is called Queen of the Underground with a book's
called Harry Tuban Live in Concert. And also my audiobook
has two original songs in it. So if you want
to get a taste of my delicious music making skills,
the audiobook has two original songs in it.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And now back to my conversation with Bob and drag Queen.
I love the notion of how we introduce historical figures
to current day readers because a lot of times this
stuff is just not taught in schools. We know them
because of historical things they did, but we don't necessarily
know what the day to day life of a person is,
(09:58):
and so you get to a mad somewhat. What was
the day to day life of a person? Do you
find the importance in that and with what you're doing
with this project.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So to be clear, I am not a historian. This
book is not a biography. This book takes place current day,
so her day to day life is very different now
right now, Her day to day life in my book
is that she's writing an album, and she's also still
an abolitionist working toward freedom. But what it means to
be free is constantly changing, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
What I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
We're pushing for more and more and more and more freedom.
So you will learn some things about Harry Tubman. And
but I do want to be clear to you all,
this is not a history book.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It is fiction. It is made up.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
None of this of Harry Tubman is doing in the
book that I've written current day has ever happened. But
a lot of the stuff that I talk about that
happened from a past did happen.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Was there anything like surprising that you learned? I did
a book on the home of Renaissance recently, and I've
just learned so many surprising things. One that Langston Hughes
would have probably been Wendy Williams if he were alive today,
because he was a little messy.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
What a black guy living in a horror messy. I
don't believe it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I don't believe it.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
And a lot of them were a little bit best
finding out like these intricate details about some of their lives,
and I was like, oh, this is this is tea.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Right, we forget that people who live before us probably
had a lot of the same proclivities that we have. Right,
we think that our grandmas were not getting down in
the club, and they probably were.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
So I made a post one day when Beyonce's Church
Girl came out and I actually did it. It went
viral because I talked about my great grandmother and I
was like, this song is for people who are like
my great grandmother. I was like, she was the mother
of the church, but she had ten kids by three
different men. You know, you don't get ten kids by
not engaging in sexual.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, by throwing it. You were throwing it back on somebody,
you know.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
What I mean, and being a sexual being right, And
I was like, y'all talk about blasphemy, but I was like, no, like,
it's really important that we actually explore the full arcs
of people's humanity. Even with Harriet Tubman. I think that's
important too. I guess what went into your mind about
like shaping who she is or who you think she
would be this character as a rapper.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Well, a big part of the beginning of the book
is the character Darnell, who's loosely based on me. He's
a much kinder version of me. He's like me, if
I was like really nice, maybe the version of me
that I strive to be or wish I was, but
I don't have the capacity because I'm just not that nice.
And he idolizes Harry Tubman, but he's trying to work
(12:21):
with her and trying to give her the ability to
be human and not just like you know, his north star,
but also let her be human. That happens a lot
in the first chapter because he has to meet her
and he has to help her write this album. So
the main character of the book is actually Darnell. Harry
Tubman is throughout the entire book, but it's really seen
through the character Darnell's.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Eyes, and this character Darnell, like he said was based on.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You a loosely, very loosely.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, so this character is gay or queer or you
think I'm gay.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
That's crazy, that's crazy. You know, Darnella's gay. Darnell's gay,
and he's a hip hop producer who has been shunned
from the music business.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Something happened to him. I don't know if spoil the book.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
We had something to happen to him that was very
unsavory and he felt like he needed to leave the
hip hop business because of it. Also, remind you, guys,
it's not a trauma piece. This is not trauma porn.
There's no lashings, there's no all that stuff that we
hear about happening to enslave people. That is not happening
in my book. My book allows you to explore other
themes and not you know, have to imagine yourself going
(13:25):
through your ancestors trauma.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
My first book, All Boys Aren't Blue, ended up being
the second most band book in the country currently congratulations, Yes, thank.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
You, or as they saying shas congratulations.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
It really ended up doing that because it was one
of the first titles in young adult where even though
it's a memoir through essay, there was a queer lead
who didn't die at the end, right, And so I
find importance in making sure that there are titles where
you know, the leads actually have a different identity in
what mainstream society thinks should be acceptable in a book.
So did you find any importance in like this book,
(14:06):
you know, being about someone who, of course like Harriet
Tubman from the past, but also interacting with a queer person.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, a lot of queer people.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
We wonder what our existence would be in the past
because we don't see ourselves written, we don't see ourselves reflected,
or or if we do see queer people, their queerness
has just been completely erased. Even people who are living today,
like doctor Angela Davis. Do people know she's queer? Do
they know that?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I don't know if they know that.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
You know, before you watch the movie Bayard about Bayard Russe,
did we know that he was queer? Did we know
that there was a gay man working alongside Martin Luther King?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Do we know that? I don't know that.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
We know that, we found we find out, you know
what I mean? And then you know, people like William
Dorsey Swan who was Quotawa being America's first Drag Queen.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
He's not in our books. Yeah you know what I mean.
We know so little about him. Yeah, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
So I wanted to I wanted to let people know that,
like queer people know that we existed in the past, that.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Queer people are not like we're not We're not a race.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It's not like being Asian or being black, Like you
need Asian people to make Asian people, you need black
people to make black people. You do not need queer
people to make queer people. If you started a new
nation somewhere on an island, some queers are going to
pop up, you know what I mean. It's naturally occurring
in the gene process. And I really like the idea
of insisting that we exist.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Exactly and being a writer, like you said, sometimes it
is hard. I always feel like we get to a
point of like knowing queer history and then it just
is like nothing was written, like nothing was there, but
we knew we were there. Right, how old are you, George,
I will be forty.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
So we're old enough to know that even in our lifetime,
there was a time where you just kind of hide
your queerness, like you can exist as a queer person.
You can either hide or you just kind of like
shut the fuck up about it. Yep, Like you can
be gay, just don't just don't do it in my face.
I don't want to see that gay shit in my
fuck face, you know what I mean. And I imagine
that in the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, imagine that in the
(15:57):
early nineteen hundreds, you know what I mean. Yeah, So
obviously if you were living as a queer person, it
was all done in secret or within your small group.
I'm not sure, William Rosy Swan and you're like, I
don't care a bitch, I'm doing it out loud and
in public, you.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Know, right right?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I know, Like when I wrote Flamboyance on the Home
of Renaissance, it was a lot. You know, you're reading
other works about this person, trying to really figure out
what's real from what's rumor because everything isn't written down,
So it's like, can you verify this source, Like what
was the most interesting thing you found of what was
your research process?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Like, so I've been looking. I've been studying Harrot Tubman
for years, like literally for years. I guess my research
process started in high school, you know, in theory I
love it. But then also when going back and learning
about Harrot Tubman again, I did listen to a few
autobiographies actually, including the one that she had a hand
(16:54):
in writing. When she narrated her story to this white
woman whose name I forget right now, that was famously
kind of retold because abolitionists who were like well meaning,
but they wanted to get the message out there the
white people would change the stories that other white people
would feel more bad about it and want.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
To contribute more to the stories.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Right, So when you have people like Sojourn of Truth
who famously never said Ani woman, she never said that,
but the people who are writing her story were like,
more people will listen if she talks like this. But
the truth is, sir, journal the truth. Her first language
was Dutch. When she learned English, she spoke perfect English,
like she spoke the Queen's English behind me, so she
(17:33):
wouldn't be saying anti woman. But it made more people listen.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Was that bad? Was that good? I'm not here to
debate that.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
You know, there's a chance that we wouldn't have even
heard about sojourna Truth if we had not heard the
Ani Woman's speech.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So what I'm trying to do is when I when
I write these words, I'm letting everyone know this is fiction.
I'm like letting everyone know I am putting in my
own spin on this. We don't know for sure what
Harry Tubman said, because Harry Teban never wrote anything down herself.
She just kept telling people and they would write down
what they wanted to write down.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
It's like her famous quote, that's not her quote, I
freed a thousand slaves. I would have freed.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Thousands, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, but she gets so it's
like exactly, yeah, Well, you know, something to people to
not realize that the estimated when I'm saying she's freed
it somewhere between six hundred and eight hundred actually.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
But a lot of people don't realize that most of
them were all in the same day, all in the
exact same day. So Harry Stubban is the only woman
in the history of the US military to ever lead
a military mission to this day, to this day, it
has never been done. And she'd let the Kmbay River raids.
They went to three different plantations and freed all these
slaves in one day. So because when she was making
(18:42):
these trips, y'all. She wasn't not taking like forty fifty
people with her. I think her largest group was allegedly
twelve people. And that's a lot of people to be
traveling from Maryland to either Pennsylvania or Canada.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yes, it is. And one of my favorites will yeah,
I can say it's like one of my favorite stories
of her is pulling out the gun.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, she carried. She carried the blaki, but she famously
never had to use it. Harroy Tubbing one of her
big points of privately that she never lost a single
passenger on the underground railroad. I assume that's because she
was so intimidated that people knew not to test it,
you know what I mean. And to be clear, y'all,
when she's doing this not because Harry Tump is like
a bad ass who'd love to carry. It's because if
you go back and you get caught, you could be
(19:24):
tortured and give up a lot of information that would
hurt a lot of people who are already freed, are
people who want to become free after you. So once
you start traveling, Harry Tapping, you cannot turn back. You
are not allowed to turn back you're not allowed to
turn around. You know, if you turn around and took
a step in the opposite direction, that might be the
last step you ever take.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yeah, that was one of the stories I read. It
was essentially the first time was trying to turn around
that She was like, you got two choices. You either
keep going or this is where you This is where
you're gonna like because bigger left breast, because I got
my piece.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, this is where you take your last breath. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And and those people were trying to run back to
the fence running, I can almost guarantee without a shadow
of it was incredibly scary because you don't know what's
on the other side. You don't know how long you're walking.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
We live in a world with Google Maps. Y'all think
they were giving slaves maps. You live on a plot
of land in a state. You don't even know what
the rest of the state looks like. You don't know
what the rest of the country looks like. You don't
you seriously don't know what the world looks like. You
don't know what's beyond the land that you're that you're
legally allowed to be on. You don't know how long
to be walking.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I would try to explain that to people too, because
they're like, well, why didn't you know all the slaves revolt?
And I'm like, well, you would have had to have
known that there were slaves there, Like you know what
you know from the proximity of the land that you're in.
I don't know that there are slaves in another state
and exactly another state below me and above me. I
don't know there are slaves thirty miles from me.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
It's so easy to say what you would have done
when you weren't there. It's so easy to be in
twenty twenty five. But I would have been bought boot.
I would have did There is a key Piel sketch
where they are slaves up on the auction block and
they keep being like, well, they better not try to
fucking get me, because if they if they give me,
I'm a revolt.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
It's an interesting comedic take on people today talking about
how easily they would have done what would have happened
at the time. But you know, don't fault your ancestors
for one to turn back. Don't fault your ancestors for
not knowing that they have other options.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
You know, every time I see someone say like, I
am not my grandparents, I'll use my hands, i am
not my answers, I'll use my hands, And I'm like,
then you just don't know history, because they used more
than their hands. They used every tool possible to escape
and to just survive and to keep us here.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
And y'all talking to that, y'all talking that noise. Maybe
your descendants will be saying the same thing about you
the whole time when they get more freedom we are now,
they'll be saying they'd be like, I'm not I'm not
my answers because I do this.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
And they thought you was a fucking bitch.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Honey, your descendants will think you're a bitch who stood
for anything. So don't don't shit on your ancestors. Don't
shit on your grandma. Your grandma was doing the best
she could with what she had.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And now back to my conversation with Bob and drag Queen,
what do you think Harriet Tubman was to say about
like the state of progress or where we are in
black Americans today?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Again, this is all conjecture. I don't know, but I
assume that hair Teven would fight like she would, she
would continue her work. Also, y'all, harods have ben moved
in silence, Harrot Heven had to move in silence. She
had to be a ghost. She had to be an abarition,
She had to be a spirit, otherwise she wouldn't be
able to do the work. You can't walk around I'm Harriet,
(22:53):
motherfucking topic. You know what I'd be out here in
the streets doing, because then you can't do what you're doing.
You know, it wasn't It wasn't about vanity for her.
It wasn't about the glory. It wasn't about having her
name in the history books. It was about freeing people.
It was about freedom. That was the overarching goal. The
freedom was the star.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah. Do you think that this novel is going to
be a one off? Or would you like to continue
writing fiction?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I do want to continue. I already have my next
book in mind. I want to call it Jesus Christ
for President. In this book, Jesus Christ comes back and
he's running for president. I want to continue building this world.
And I think a lot of conservatives are shocked that
they don't want to vote for him because he's low
key to communists, not lokey high keya communist. He's giving
everything away, he's really into socialist programs, or he's really
into helping the poor. He hangs with the hookers, the hoes,
(23:36):
the lepers. He's open borders, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
What I mean.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, that's an amazing concept. Oh thank you, now that
really is because I mean, it is interesting how Christianity
in his country has like backflipped.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I will never fathom what in the Bible would make
you ever think that Jesus would be a nationalist. And
if he was a nationalist, why he'd be one for America.
That is beyond me.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
It's been beyond me.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
All of this.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
The evangelicals, none of it makes any sense. Are makes
any sense?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Are you Christian?
Speaker 3 (24:08):
I would say I grew up in the church, But.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Are you Christian?
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Though?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
That's a hard question for you to answer. Sometimes it is, Yeah,
if you don't want.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
To know, I have to question it, like I have
to question it just based off of what the indoctrination
of Christianity looks like today. Who I am as a
person is I am community first? I am like always
going to be about helping other people using my blessings
to help other people be blessed. This is how my
grandmother raised me. Grandma, she was my main caregiver, like
(24:40):
both my parents were in my life, but they worked
like really like a lot. Her name was Louise, Louise Kennedy,
Evan's elder.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
My grandmother was Mary Elizabeth Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Hey, grandma Grandma Juli is obviously grandma Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
When my grandma Mildred was my other grandmother, it was
interesting because she also was the mother of our church.
But she had a love for LGBTQ people like I
have never seen before.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I wonder how much that was having a gay grandson.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It wasn't just me though, right like she she used
to say, it ran in the family and she just
had an understanding of that and was like, we don't
throw people out. I can't go to church here. That
Jesus is love. And then you think that love means
that this person isn't built in some way, shape or
form that you think that they are, that they're supposed
to be casted out.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Shut out to your grandma.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Now you're no stranger to reality TV.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
What're you talking about?
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I hate it's called reality.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
No, I don't I don't mind the gran reality reality
kind of has like a negative connotation to it. But
I'm a big bit of reality TV. I specifically love
competition based reality television.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
OK, So I don't really watch them. I don't watch like.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
So, I don't watch like Housewives or like that because
like it's hard for me to watch people like living
their lives but no one's competing for something, like what
y'all want? What do y'all want? Besides attention? I love
attention to trust me. I'm a drag queen, I'm a comedian,
I'm a performer. I thrive on attention.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
But like I never.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Watched the Kardashians or the Housewives because like they're not
competing for anything.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I want to see people want something, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I keep loving hip hop on
TV because I.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Had My mom used to watch love and hip hop.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I still my mother does I love it. It's just
how my mom knows.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Cardi B.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I absolutely love it. But you were recently on The Traders.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I was Traders not very long, only four episodes.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
But but you made the most impact.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I was mentioned in every episode of The Traders. I
was mentioned in episode I was mentioned in more episodes
than Lord Ivory, and he won the show.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, And I feel like if you didn't watch the show,
people probably think you want it because of because of
how many clips on social media, because how much press
you have gotten that Seahood Like, it's actually interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I mean in theory, didn't I win the hearts of
the of the world through my performance on The Traders?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I actually had a lot of fun doing this show.
It was it came at a really crazy time in
my life. You know, my mother passed away two weeks
before I did The Traders, Like one week after my
mom's funeral, I went and did The Traders. It was crazy.
My mind was spaghettified. It was like I went to
my mind and went through a black hole. I went,
I went beyond the event horizon, and I went to
a point where I could not come back. You know,
when your mom passes away, you're part of what I
(27:26):
call the dead Mom's Club. It's this club that you're in.
And I don't know, are you both your parents still
with you?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yes, but you were raised your grandma and you mentioned
that your grandma has gone on to glory. And you know,
once you're part of. It's a club that you are
in and you've already paid your dues.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
It is blood in, it is blood out.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
The only way got out of the club is to
pass away, only to get in the club if someone
passes away. And it's a club that you don't want
to be in, but you can't get out of. But
you also like to be in the company and people
who have this experience, you know what I mean, when
your mom passes away, it's for me anyway. It was
the only thing I could talk about for like a year.
It actually hasn't been a year yet. My god, it
hasn't been a year yet. My mother was my biggest fan.
(28:06):
She thought I was that girl. She thought I was
better than everyone, and she was right period. And so
you know, going into that, I really had I really
had a battery in my back. I was like, this
was from Martha Caldwell, you know what I mean. I
gotta go in there and let these holes have it.
My mother would be so proud of how I performed
on the Traders. I know, she'd be like, that's my baby.
(28:26):
He was himself, He never diminished himself, He never hid
his light under a bushel to snatch from the Bible.
He really, you know, showed who he was and I
was I was truly myself on the Traders, and that
I'm very very proud of.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, what is that experience?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Like?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I think that's also like something that a lot of
people who are just viewers wonder because it's like, we
watched a show over a span of ten weeks, twelve weeks,
thirteen weeks, but y'all are actually filming in a very
truncated time frame.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, it's back, it's back to back. So a week
for you is a day for us, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Next week it's next week for you is tomorrow for us,
you know what I mean? Wow, last week is yesterday.
So it's all happening really fast. You're in a summer
camp or anything like that before. Yeah, when you go
to summer camp, these are the most important people in
your life. They matter to you more than anyone could
possibly matter. You cling to them for a little bit
and they kind of start becoming distant memories and stuff,
and you stick with a few people here and there.
(29:20):
But in that time, those were the most important people
in my life, Like they meant the world to me
and I was also murdering them, and I really wanted
to win the game, so I played really hard. It
is very stressful. It is absolute distrust. You don't trust anyone.
Like imagine a world where everyone is potentially your enemy,
even your teammates.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
That's what the trade is for you.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Okay, I don't want to take up too much more
of your time, but I always like to just close
out on two things.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Before you close out, I want to say this.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You can go to Readthdrag Queen dot com and that
will give you mini options by the book. And if
you want to sign a copy, go to Bob Signed
book dot com.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
And the name of your book again is.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Harriet Tubman Live in Concert.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's hard living in the United States some days waking
up to all of the chaos and everything. We always
have to get up do our jobs and everything. I
always wonder, like what people are tired of, like for
the week, and so Bob, would I have to ask
you what are you trying to? What are you tying of?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, I stay tired.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
You watch one of those movies with all the superheroes
where they all come together Avengers. There's a scene where
Hulk is getting ready to go fight this big giant
like galactic robot slash a bug thing and then he
looks back at I think Captain America. He goes, well,
my secret is I'm always angry. Maybe my secret is
(30:51):
I'm always tired. My secret I'm always tired. But I
I think maybe this week what I'm really tired of.
You know, I would like for some of these Trumpers, like,
at some point, y'all gotta admit you've been duped. Like
was it when Donald Trump did a car commercial at
(31:12):
the White House? Is that when you realize you were duped?
Was it when the price of eggs kept going up?
Was it when he sold the presidency to the world's
richest man? Like, at some point you got to realize
you were a dupe. We need some class holidarity in here.
You will never be the one percent. Ever, you will
not be. I don't think y'all can fathom how much
(31:33):
money these people have.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
You can't.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I don't think our brands can even comprehend how wealthy
these people are. It would take like over two hundred
oprah Renfrees to be one.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Elon Musk.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Taylor Swift, who's a certified billionaire's closer an income to
a person who works at McDonald's this year is to
Elon Musk. So I think what I'm sick of is
like the I guess i'll call them pick meies, the
capitalist pick mes. And we all engage in capitalism. Obviously
we're here on a podcast that is being funded by money.
(32:08):
I'm not saying that, you know, just because you engage
in capitalism you're bad. But like the former capitalism that
Elon Musk is engaging in, it will never be you.
You will never have that much money. You will never
you will never become the world's richest man on your
crypto or by you know, sucking up to Elon Musk.
And I'm taking tired of the people thinking that if
they just emulate what they're doing, they'll become one of
those people.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Right, And I don't know why people still haven't realized it,
but for him to be that wealthy, you have to
stay that poor. Yeah, So it's not gonna Yeah, that's
that's the thing that's not gonna change.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Listen, resources are finite, So in so much money, there's
go in so many houses doing so much food. Food
can be replenished. But the sources of the food are finite,
you know what I mean. In order for the people
at the bottom to have something, the people at the
top are gonna have.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
To give something up or have it snatched out of
their hands. Yep. And that's just the truth. We can't
all live at the top.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
You gonna give it to me, I'm gonna take it exactly.
That's where it's at. That's where it's at. And the
final thing is I always like to leave people just
with like a phrase that like, motive is motivating you
for this year.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I've been saying this for years. I don't even know
where I got this from.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
But you know, everything works out in the end, and
if it's not working out, it's just not the end.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
M just keep going, just keep going through. I love that.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I wouldn't go see Lizo last night at the wheel
Turn and I'm not really into like love w type stuff,
but she had a moment that really got me good
and she was talking about love in real life. And
I live on the Internet and the Internet is a vapid, vapid,
nasty place. It is so easy to get wrapped up
in what it feels like the world is full of hate.
There there's a lot of love out there. Yeah, there
(33:46):
really is a lot of love out there in the world,
a lot of people who want to do good, who
don't know how to do good, who think they're doing good.
I've been guilty of all these things as well, you know.
And I never give a message like this because I'm
really not a love w type bitch. But like, there
genuinely is a lot of love out there.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Look y'all, we got Bob to give a love message.
Thank you for coming on Fighting Words today, and congratulations
on the new book.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Thank you. It's my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
People will never fight for your freedom if you have
not given evidence that you are prepared to fight for
it yourself. This is a quote from Baird Rustin, whom
Bob mentioned. Baird was considered one of the most important
architects of the civil rights movement and mlk's right hand man,
but his name was largely forgotten until recently. Rustin was
(34:40):
openly gay and was raised by his breaker grandmother, Julia Rustin,
who always affirmed his sexuality. One of his most important
contributions was organized into March on Washington in August nineteen
sixty three with a Philip Randolph That quote makes me
think about a quote that I wrote in my book
All Boys Aren't Blue. The first person you have to
(35:01):
be an activist for is yourself. It also ties so
much to religion when you think about how faith without
works is dead, or the saying God helps those who
help themselves. As a community, we must all come together
to fight against the injustices that is currently happening to
the LGBTQ community, But we must all remember that that
(35:24):
fight does start with us who we are as people,
who we are as individuals, and we must be resilient
in this fight for equality injustice. Thanks for listening to
Fighting Words and hope you'll join us for another round
next week. Fighting Words is a production of iHeart Podcasts
(35:49):
in partnership with Best Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This
episode was produced by Charlotte Morley. Is That Could. Producers
are myself and Twiggy Pugi Guar Song with Adam Pinkins
and Brick Cats for Best Case Studios. The theme song
was written and composed by cole Vos Bambianna and myself.
Original music by cole Vas. This episode was edited and
(36:13):
scored by Max Michael Miller. Our iHeart Team is Ali
Perry and Carl Ketel, following rap Fighting Words Wherever you
get your podcast
The thing about Hamilton is that Hamilton is more narrative storytelling,
and they just happened to be rapping. And I wanted
hairtub to be a rapper, Like it's not just like
we're telling a story and she's rapping.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Like Harriet Tubman is actively.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Pursuing a career in music and tried to do her
abolition work while doing it through hip hop.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's Bob the Drag Queen. Since winning season eight a
root called Drag Race, Bob has recorded two stand up
comedy specials, starting shows like We're Here and Traders NMC
a world tour for Madonna. Now he's released his debut novel,
Harriet Tubman Live in Concert. In it, the Great Harriet
Tubman is a live and present day and she has bars.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It wasn't about vanity for her. It wasn't about the glory.
It was about freedom. That was the overarching goal. The
freedom was.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
The start.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Handed to put the world take a sip of brand
new spoke the guy who know what the plan is.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
One doesn't understand me. My name is Georgiam Johnson. I
am the New York Times bestselling author of the book
All Boys Aren't Blue, which is the number one most
challenged book in the United States. This is Fighting Words,
a show where we take you to the front lines
of the culture wars with the people who are using
their words to make change and who refuse to be silenced.
(01:37):
On today's episode, Bob the Drag Queen.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You ready, Bob Ye? Cool?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Hello everyone. I want to welcome you all to another
episode of Fighting Words. I am here today with Bob
the Drag Queen. Who if you wanted to tell someone
in an elevator pitch, or if you got stuck in
an elevator with Beyonce O Rihanna and they were like,
who are you? Who is Bob the drag.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Queen, I would be really sure. I said, my name
is Bob the drag Queen. I'm a standout comedian. That's
really the whole that's the whole pitch. That's harry that
it's not more intense than that. But like, my name
is Bob the drag quon std comedian.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
But to me, I mean it tells you a lot
about me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I just told you I'm a drag quid and I
told you I'm a comedian, and those are really like
professionally speaking the two biggest I would say indicators about me.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You grew up in the South, and interestly enough, your
mom she owned a drag bar correct.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, called Sensations in Columbus, Georgia.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
Yeah yeah. So what was that experience.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Like, Well, because I was a child, I didn't actually
go to the club, and except for during the day
when when they were like cleaning it and like doing.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Like office stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
A big part of the process for me as a
kid was a bunch of lesbians in my living room
in Fittix Catey, Alabama, planning to create this club. That's
that's the main memories that I have to be honest.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
So then what was your first like introduction into drag
for yourself?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
First time I ever, technically dad drag was in college.
Technically was in high school. On crossdress day for a
spirit week, we did crossdres Day and I wore my well,
I think we had to go to the thrift store
because I was much larger than my mother. I mean,
I've been six foot two since I was in seventh grade,
so I was a very tall person. But I was
(03:21):
really skinny, so I might have actually and my mother
didn't really wear very feminine clothes because again, a bunch
of lesbians planning a club. So I think my cousin
Amanda was living with at the time, and she has
pretty big feet. So I wore some of her pay
less shoes, and I think I went to the thrift store.
My mom bought me a skirt and I remember wearing
my mom's brawl. Didn't have a wig, but I had
some tracks, so I pinned the tracks to my hair. Yes,
(03:44):
I have hair. I pinned the tracks to my hair,
and then I tied a bandana over my head. I
kind of looked like Daria.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So you have a new book called Harriet Tubny Live
in Concole.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Now we talk about Miss Harriet a lot, whether it's Twitter,
whether it's social media, whether it's if she had a
nice crown on her head in a nice dress when
she was trying to take slaves to freedo. Harriet Tubman
comes up a lot in conversations all around the internet streets.
Where did the idea come from?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Okay, so I have a lot of silly ideas. My
brain will birth an idea and then I guess I
have to do my own mental gymnastics to figure out
if this as an idea worth pursuing, or if it
was just a silly thought that I had. And I've
always loved Harry Tupping. Every time there was a Black
History Month report or anything, I was going to choose
my person, it was always going to be Harry Tubbing.
If I just love, love, love her story, it's quite
(04:43):
literally unbelievable. Your mind is kind of like, there's no way,
there's no way this happened.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
I've read about her a lot too. Yeah, she lived
a lot of lives.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
And she lived really long, Like the literal life she
lived was longer than most people ever live. And the
more you read about her story, you're like, no way,
no way, no way. But there's so many sources being
like absolutely absolutely her claims are corroborated throughout history. And
I also love hip hop music. I love writing rap
(05:14):
music listening to it. And then I was I was
doing Angels in America at the Birthrow Optory Theater and
the idea came to me there. I don't even know
how it came to me, but I just thought to myself,
I would love to hear Harrod Tubban's album. I want
to see it and I deserve It.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Was like the Broadway play like Hamilton in mind at
all when you were thinking about this and like how
we can creatively rewrite history.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
I mean maybe, but the thing about Hamilton is that
Hamilton is more narrative storytelling, and they just happened to
be rapping. And I wanted Hairtubban to be a rapper
like Herod. It's not just like we're telling a story
and she's rapping like Harrod. Tubban is actively pursuing a
career in music and trying to do her abolition work
(05:56):
while doing it through hip hop. African American culture is
one of the most far reaching cultures there is in
the world, and hip hop is one of the biggest
kind of muis there is. So if every time I
wants to reach blite people, it's gonna make some hip
hop you know all that. Well, nowadays either you're doing
country or you.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Know, right, you could jam a blend exactly. I know.
For me, like anytime I'm writing a new book, I
really outlined the book first and like go through like
all of these different processes, and I also choose a
certain album that I listened to throughout the entire time
I'm writing it. What was your creative process, like for
writing this book.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
That's such a smart process. I should probably adopt that,
especially the outlining part. I was writing it as it
came to me. I was like it was flowing through
my fingers as I was clicking, like clacking. I didn't
know what the end of the book was until I
got to the end of the book.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
You know. Wow. Actually didn't even know how it start
until I started typing. I literally didn't even know.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Before going into this. Were there any books that inspired
you or any authors that you kind of were like, ooh,
this is an author who will help kind of shape
how I want to.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Have you heard of The Good Lord Bird?
Speaker 3 (06:58):
I don't think so?
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Uh okay, So The Good Lord Bird was my biggest
inspiration for this book. It's by James McBride. It's the
historical fiction piece about John Brown, the abolitionist, Yes, the
abolitionist yep. And in his mad Man abolition work, he
ends up kidnapping this this young man who's enslaved person
because his father ends up dying in a fight that
(07:20):
John Brown is in and then he's like, you don't
have a family, so you're you're coming.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
With me now?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Then in this journey, John Brown thinks that this little
boy is a girl. So this little boy has to
live as a girl for a couple of years, and
he's afraid of being found out that he's actually a boy.
But he's not trans, he's not queer. Yeah, he's just
a really pretty boy. And John Brown thought he was
(07:44):
a girl and now he has live as a girl.
And it's so absurd but also so funny but also
really heart wrenching. Like it's good, It's a really good
but I strongly recommend it is a book that is
genuinely hard to put down.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Okay, and from that you able to, I guess, glean
upon like how you wanted to make like with your storytelling.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Well, when I was an Angels in America, I played
Belize and he talks about a fake books. It's a
book that's created for the play. He says, it's historical fiction.
And I love this idea of like writing fiction but
including real people just making up things they were doing,
you know what I mean. And I just thought that
was such an interesting concept. That was another big inspiration
(08:26):
for me. Tony Kushner's made up book in Angels of
America and I think it's called in Love with the
Night Mysterious.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
I believe that's the name of it.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
So yeah, I was just kind of like pulling from
inspiration from that, and I liked how absurd this story was,
how crazy it sounded. And I also like to write
the kind of books that I would want to read,
you know what I mean. Yes, even started with the
title that is a title that I would see and
I would be like, I want. I was actually torn
between two titles Queen of the Underground Harry Tubman Queen
of the Underground, which is the name.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
Of her album.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Her album is called Queen of the Underground Love, so
her album is called Queen of the Underground with a book's
called Harry Tuban Live in Concert. And also my audiobook
has two original songs in it. So if you want
to get a taste of my delicious music making skills,
the audiobook has two original songs in it.
Speaker 3 (09:37):
And now back to my conversation with Bob and drag Queen.
I love the notion of how we introduce historical figures
to current day readers because a lot of times this
stuff is just not taught in schools. We know them
because of historical things they did, but we don't necessarily
know what the day to day life of a person is,
(09:58):
and so you get to a mad somewhat. What was
the day to day life of a person? Do you
find the importance in that and with what you're doing
with this project.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
So to be clear, I am not a historian. This
book is not a biography. This book takes place current day,
so her day to day life is very different now
right now, Her day to day life in my book
is that she's writing an album, and she's also still
an abolitionist working toward freedom. But what it means to
be free is constantly changing, you know.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
What I mean.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
We're pushing for more and more and more and more freedom.
So you will learn some things about Harry Tubman. And
but I do want to be clear to you all,
this is not a history book.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It is fiction. It is made up.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
None of this of Harry Tubman is doing in the
book that I've written current day has ever happened. But
a lot of the stuff that I talk about that
happened from a past did happen.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Was there anything like surprising that you learned? I did
a book on the home of Renaissance recently, and I've
just learned so many surprising things. One that Langston Hughes
would have probably been Wendy Williams if he were alive today,
because he was a little messy.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
What a black guy living in a horror messy. I
don't believe it.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I don't believe it.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
And a lot of them were a little bit best
finding out like these intricate details about some of their lives,
and I was like, oh, this is this is tea.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Right, we forget that people who live before us probably
had a lot of the same proclivities that we have. Right,
we think that our grandmas were not getting down in
the club, and they probably were.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
So I made a post one day when Beyonce's Church
Girl came out and I actually did it. It went
viral because I talked about my great grandmother and I
was like, this song is for people who are like
my great grandmother. I was like, she was the mother
of the church, but she had ten kids by three
different men. You know, you don't get ten kids by
not engaging in sexual.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yeah, by throwing it. You were throwing it back on somebody,
you know.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
What I mean, and being a sexual being right, And
I was like, y'all talk about blasphemy, but I was like, no, like,
it's really important that we actually explore the full arcs
of people's humanity. Even with Harriet Tubman. I think that's
important too. I guess what went into your mind about
like shaping who she is or who you think she
would be this character as a rapper.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Well, a big part of the beginning of the book
is the character Darnell, who's loosely based on me. He's
a much kinder version of me. He's like me, if
I was like really nice, maybe the version of me
that I strive to be or wish I was, but
I don't have the capacity because I'm just not that nice.
And he idolizes Harry Tubman, but he's trying to work
(12:21):
with her and trying to give her the ability to
be human and not just like you know, his north star,
but also let her be human. That happens a lot
in the first chapter because he has to meet her
and he has to help her write this album. So
the main character of the book is actually Darnell. Harry
Tubman is throughout the entire book, but it's really seen
through the character Darnell's.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
Eyes, and this character Darnell, like he said was based on.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
You a loosely, very loosely.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Yeah, so this character is gay or queer or you
think I'm gay.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
That's crazy, that's crazy. You know, Darnella's gay. Darnell's gay,
and he's a hip hop producer who has been shunned
from the music business.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Something happened to him. I don't know if spoil the book.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
We had something to happen to him that was very
unsavory and he felt like he needed to leave the
hip hop business because of it. Also, remind you, guys,
it's not a trauma piece. This is not trauma porn.
There's no lashings, there's no all that stuff that we
hear about happening to enslave people. That is not happening
in my book. My book allows you to explore other
themes and not you know, have to imagine yourself going
(13:25):
through your ancestors trauma.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
My first book, All Boys Aren't Blue, ended up being
the second most band book in the country currently congratulations, Yes, thank.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
You, or as they saying shas congratulations.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
It really ended up doing that because it was one
of the first titles in young adult where even though
it's a memoir through essay, there was a queer lead
who didn't die at the end, right, And so I
find importance in making sure that there are titles where
you know, the leads actually have a different identity in
what mainstream society thinks should be acceptable in a book.
So did you find any importance in like this book,
(14:06):
you know, being about someone who, of course like Harriet
Tubman from the past, but also interacting with a queer person.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
Well, a lot of queer people.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
We wonder what our existence would be in the past
because we don't see ourselves written, we don't see ourselves reflected,
or or if we do see queer people, their queerness
has just been completely erased. Even people who are living today,
like doctor Angela Davis. Do people know she's queer? Do
they know that?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I don't know if they know that.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
You know, before you watch the movie Bayard about Bayard Russe,
did we know that he was queer? Did we know
that there was a gay man working alongside Martin Luther King?
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Do we know that? I don't know that.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
We know that, we found we find out, you know
what I mean? And then you know, people like William
Dorsey Swan who was Quotawa being America's first Drag Queen.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
He's not in our books. Yeah you know what I mean.
We know so little about him. Yeah, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
So I wanted to I wanted to let people know that,
like queer people know that we existed in the past, that.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
Queer people are not like we're not We're not a race.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
It's not like being Asian or being black, Like you
need Asian people to make Asian people, you need black
people to make black people. You do not need queer
people to make queer people. If you started a new
nation somewhere on an island, some queers are going to
pop up, you know what I mean. It's naturally occurring
in the gene process. And I really like the idea
of insisting that we exist.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Exactly and being a writer, like you said, sometimes it
is hard. I always feel like we get to a
point of like knowing queer history and then it just
is like nothing was written, like nothing was there, but
we knew we were there. Right, how old are you, George,
I will be forty.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
So we're old enough to know that even in our lifetime,
there was a time where you just kind of hide
your queerness, like you can exist as a queer person.
You can either hide or you just kind of like
shut the fuck up about it. Yep, Like you can
be gay, just don't just don't do it in my face.
I don't want to see that gay shit in my
fuck face, you know what I mean. And I imagine
that in the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, imagine that in the
(15:57):
early nineteen hundreds, you know what I mean. Yeah, So
obviously if you were living as a queer person, it
was all done in secret or within your small group.
I'm not sure, William Rosy Swan and you're like, I
don't care a bitch, I'm doing it out loud and
in public, you.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Know, right right?
Speaker 3 (16:13):
I know, Like when I wrote Flamboyance on the Home
of Renaissance, it was a lot. You know, you're reading
other works about this person, trying to really figure out
what's real from what's rumor because everything isn't written down,
So it's like, can you verify this source, Like what
was the most interesting thing you found of what was
your research process?
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Like, so I've been looking. I've been studying Harrot Tubman
for years, like literally for years. I guess my research
process started in high school, you know, in theory I
love it. But then also when going back and learning
about Harrot Tubman again, I did listen to a few
autobiographies actually, including the one that she had a hand
(16:54):
in writing. When she narrated her story to this white
woman whose name I forget right now, that was famously
kind of retold because abolitionists who were like well meaning,
but they wanted to get the message out there the
white people would change the stories that other white people
would feel more bad about it and want.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
To contribute more to the stories.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Right, So when you have people like Sojourn of Truth
who famously never said Ani woman, she never said that,
but the people who are writing her story were like,
more people will listen if she talks like this. But
the truth is, sir, journal the truth. Her first language
was Dutch. When she learned English, she spoke perfect English,
like she spoke the Queen's English behind me, so she
(17:33):
wouldn't be saying anti woman. But it made more people listen.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Was that bad? Was that good? I'm not here to
debate that.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
You know, there's a chance that we wouldn't have even
heard about sojourna Truth if we had not heard the
Ani Woman's speech.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
So what I'm trying to do is when I when
I write these words, I'm letting everyone know this is fiction.
I'm like letting everyone know I am putting in my
own spin on this. We don't know for sure what
Harry Tubman said, because Harry Teban never wrote anything down herself.
She just kept telling people and they would write down
what they wanted to write down.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
It's like her famous quote, that's not her quote, I
freed a thousand slaves. I would have freed.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Thousands, yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, but she gets so it's
like exactly, yeah, Well, you know, something to people to
not realize that the estimated when I'm saying she's freed
it somewhere between six hundred and eight hundred actually.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
But a lot of people don't realize that most of
them were all in the same day, all in the
exact same day. So Harry Stubban is the only woman
in the history of the US military to ever lead
a military mission to this day, to this day, it
has never been done. And she'd let the Kmbay River raids.
They went to three different plantations and freed all these
slaves in one day. So because when she was making
(18:42):
these trips, y'all. She wasn't not taking like forty fifty
people with her. I think her largest group was allegedly
twelve people. And that's a lot of people to be
traveling from Maryland to either Pennsylvania or Canada.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
Yes, it is. And one of my favorites will yeah,
I can say it's like one of my favorite stories
of her is pulling out the gun.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah, she carried. She carried the blaki, but she famously
never had to use it. Harroy Tubbing one of her
big points of privately that she never lost a single
passenger on the underground railroad. I assume that's because she
was so intimidated that people knew not to test it,
you know what I mean. And to be clear, y'all,
when she's doing this not because Harry Tump is like
a bad ass who'd love to carry. It's because if
you go back and you get caught, you could be
(19:24):
tortured and give up a lot of information that would
hurt a lot of people who are already freed, are
people who want to become free after you. So once
you start traveling, Harry Tapping, you cannot turn back. You
are not allowed to turn back you're not allowed to
turn around. You know, if you turn around and took
a step in the opposite direction, that might be the
last step you ever take.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Yeah, that was one of the stories I read. It
was essentially the first time was trying to turn around
that She was like, you got two choices. You either
keep going or this is where you This is where
you're gonna like because bigger left breast, because I got
my piece.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Yeah, this is where you take your last breath. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
And and those people were trying to run back to
the fence running, I can almost guarantee without a shadow
of it was incredibly scary because you don't know what's
on the other side. You don't know how long you're walking.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Y'all.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
We live in a world with Google Maps. Y'all think
they were giving slaves maps. You live on a plot
of land in a state. You don't even know what
the rest of the state looks like. You don't know
what the rest of the country looks like. You don't
you seriously don't know what the world looks like. You
don't know what's beyond the land that you're that you're
legally allowed to be on. You don't know how long
to be walking.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
I would try to explain that to people too, because
they're like, well, why didn't you know all the slaves revolt?
And I'm like, well, you would have had to have
known that there were slaves there, Like you know what
you know from the proximity of the land that you're in.
I don't know that there are slaves in another state
and exactly another state below me and above me. I
don't know there are slaves thirty miles from me.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
It's so easy to say what you would have done
when you weren't there. It's so easy to be in
twenty twenty five. But I would have been bought boot.
I would have did There is a key Piel sketch
where they are slaves up on the auction block and
they keep being like, well, they better not try to
fucking get me, because if they if they give me,
I'm a revolt.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
It's an interesting comedic take on people today talking about
how easily they would have done what would have happened
at the time. But you know, don't fault your ancestors
for one to turn back. Don't fault your ancestors for
not knowing that they have other options.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
You know, every time I see someone say like, I
am not my grandparents, I'll use my hands, i am
not my answers, I'll use my hands, And I'm like,
then you just don't know history, because they used more
than their hands. They used every tool possible to escape
and to just survive and to keep us here.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
And y'all talking to that, y'all talking that noise. Maybe
your descendants will be saying the same thing about you
the whole time when they get more freedom we are now,
they'll be saying they'd be like, I'm not I'm not
my answers because I do this.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
And they thought you was a fucking bitch.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Honey, your descendants will think you're a bitch who stood
for anything. So don't don't shit on your ancestors. Don't
shit on your grandma. Your grandma was doing the best
she could with what she had.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And now back to my conversation with Bob and drag Queen,
what do you think Harriet Tubman was to say about
like the state of progress or where we are in
black Americans today?
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Again, this is all conjecture. I don't know, but I
assume that hair Teven would fight like she would, she
would continue her work. Also, y'all, harods have ben moved
in silence, Harrot Heven had to move in silence. She
had to be a ghost. She had to be an abarition,
She had to be a spirit, otherwise she wouldn't be
able to do the work. You can't walk around I'm Harriet,
(22:53):
motherfucking topic. You know what I'd be out here in
the streets doing, because then you can't do what you're doing.
You know, it wasn't It wasn't about vanity for her.
It wasn't about the glory. It wasn't about having her
name in the history books. It was about freeing people.
It was about freedom. That was the overarching goal. The
freedom was the star.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah. Do you think that this novel is going to
be a one off? Or would you like to continue
writing fiction?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So?
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I do want to continue. I already have my next
book in mind. I want to call it Jesus Christ
for President. In this book, Jesus Christ comes back and
he's running for president. I want to continue building this world.
And I think a lot of conservatives are shocked that
they don't want to vote for him because he's low
key to communists, not lokey high keya communist. He's giving
everything away, he's really into socialist programs, or he's really
into helping the poor. He hangs with the hookers, the hoes,
(23:36):
the lepers. He's open borders, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
What I mean.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, that's an amazing concept. Oh thank you, now that
really is because I mean, it is interesting how Christianity
in his country has like backflipped.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I will never fathom what in the Bible would make
you ever think that Jesus would be a nationalist. And
if he was a nationalist, why he'd be one for America.
That is beyond me.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
It's been beyond me.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
All of this.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
The evangelicals, none of it makes any sense. Are makes
any sense?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Are you Christian?
Speaker 3 (24:08):
I would say I grew up in the church, But.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
Are you Christian?
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Though?
Speaker 2 (24:13):
That's a hard question for you to answer. Sometimes it is, Yeah,
if you don't want.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
To know, I have to question it, like I have
to question it just based off of what the indoctrination
of Christianity looks like today. Who I am as a
person is I am community first? I am like always
going to be about helping other people using my blessings
to help other people be blessed. This is how my
grandmother raised me. Grandma, she was my main caregiver, like
(24:40):
both my parents were in my life, but they worked
like really like a lot. Her name was Louise, Louise Kennedy,
Evan's elder.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
My grandmother was Mary Elizabeth Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Hey, grandma Grandma Juli is obviously grandma Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
When my grandma Mildred was my other grandmother, it was
interesting because she also was the mother of our church.
But she had a love for LGBTQ people like I
have never seen before.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I wonder how much that was having a gay grandson.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It wasn't just me though, right like she she used
to say, it ran in the family and she just
had an understanding of that and was like, we don't
throw people out. I can't go to church here. That
Jesus is love. And then you think that love means
that this person isn't built in some way, shape or
form that you think that they are, that they're supposed
to be casted out.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Shut out to your grandma.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Now you're no stranger to reality TV.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
What're you talking about?
Speaker 3 (25:43):
I hate it's called reality.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
No, I don't I don't mind the gran reality reality
kind of has like a negative connotation to it. But
I'm a big bit of reality TV. I specifically love
competition based reality television.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
OK, So I don't really watch them. I don't watch like.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
So, I don't watch like Housewives or like that because
like it's hard for me to watch people like living
their lives but no one's competing for something, like what
y'all want? What do y'all want? Besides attention? I love
attention to trust me. I'm a drag queen, I'm a comedian,
I'm a performer. I thrive on attention.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
But like I never.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Watched the Kardashians or the Housewives because like they're not
competing for anything.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I want to see people want something, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I keep loving hip hop on
TV because I.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Had My mom used to watch love and hip hop.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
I still my mother does I love it. It's just
how my mom knows.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Cardi B.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I absolutely love it. But you were recently on The Traders.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
I was Traders not very long, only four episodes.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
But but you made the most impact.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
I was mentioned in every episode of The Traders. I
was mentioned in episode I was mentioned in more episodes
than Lord Ivory, and he won the show.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, And I feel like if you didn't watch the show,
people probably think you want it because of because of
how many clips on social media, because how much press
you have gotten that Seahood Like, it's actually interesting.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
I mean in theory, didn't I win the hearts of
the of the world through my performance on The Traders?
Speaker 2 (27:03):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
I actually had a lot of fun doing this show.
It was it came at a really crazy time in
my life. You know, my mother passed away two weeks
before I did The Traders, Like one week after my
mom's funeral, I went and did The Traders. It was crazy.
My mind was spaghettified. It was like I went to
my mind and went through a black hole. I went,
I went beyond the event horizon, and I went to
a point where I could not come back. You know,
when your mom passes away, you're part of what I
(27:26):
call the dead Mom's Club. It's this club that you're in.
And I don't know, are you both your parents still
with you?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yes, but you were raised your grandma and you mentioned
that your grandma has gone on to glory. And you know,
once you're part of. It's a club that you are
in and you've already paid your dues.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
It is blood in, it is blood out.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
The only way got out of the club is to
pass away, only to get in the club if someone
passes away. And it's a club that you don't want
to be in, but you can't get out of. But
you also like to be in the company and people
who have this experience, you know what I mean, when
your mom passes away, it's for me anyway. It was
the only thing I could talk about for like a year.
It actually hasn't been a year yet. My god, it
hasn't been a year yet. My mother was my biggest fan.
(28:06):
She thought I was that girl. She thought I was
better than everyone, and she was right period. And so
you know, going into that, I really had I really
had a battery in my back. I was like, this
was from Martha Caldwell, you know what I mean. I
gotta go in there and let these holes have it.
My mother would be so proud of how I performed
on the Traders. I know, she'd be like, that's my baby.
(28:26):
He was himself, He never diminished himself, He never hid
his light under a bushel to snatch from the Bible.
He really, you know, showed who he was and I
was I was truly myself on the Traders, and that
I'm very very proud of.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah, what is that experience?
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Like?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
I think that's also like something that a lot of
people who are just viewers wonder because it's like, we
watched a show over a span of ten weeks, twelve weeks,
thirteen weeks, but y'all are actually filming in a very
truncated time frame.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah, it's back, it's back to back. So a week
for you is a day for us, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 3 (28:58):
Got it?
Speaker 1 (28:59):
Next week it's next week for you is tomorrow for us,
you know what I mean? Wow, last week is yesterday.
So it's all happening really fast. You're in a summer
camp or anything like that before. Yeah, when you go
to summer camp, these are the most important people in
your life. They matter to you more than anyone could
possibly matter. You cling to them for a little bit
and they kind of start becoming distant memories and stuff,
and you stick with a few people here and there.
(29:20):
But in that time, those were the most important people
in my life, Like they meant the world to me
and I was also murdering them, and I really wanted
to win the game, so I played really hard. It
is very stressful. It is absolute distrust. You don't trust anyone.
Like imagine a world where everyone is potentially your enemy,
even your teammates.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
That's what the trade is for you.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
Okay, I don't want to take up too much more
of your time, but I always like to just close
out on two things.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Before you close out, I want to say this.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
You can go to Readthdrag Queen dot com and that
will give you mini options by the book. And if
you want to sign a copy, go to Bob Signed
book dot com.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
And the name of your book again is.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Harriet Tubman Live in Concert.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
It's hard living in the United States some days waking
up to all of the chaos and everything. We always
have to get up do our jobs and everything. I
always wonder, like what people are tired of, like for
the week, and so Bob, would I have to ask
you what are you trying to? What are you tying of?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Well, I stay tired.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
You watch one of those movies with all the superheroes
where they all come together Avengers. There's a scene where
Hulk is getting ready to go fight this big giant
like galactic robot slash a bug thing and then he
looks back at I think Captain America. He goes, well,
my secret is I'm always angry. Maybe my secret is
(30:51):
I'm always tired. My secret I'm always tired. But I
I think maybe this week what I'm really tired of.
You know, I would like for some of these Trumpers, like,
at some point, y'all gotta admit you've been duped. Like
was it when Donald Trump did a car commercial at
(31:12):
the White House? Is that when you realize you were duped?
Was it when the price of eggs kept going up?
Was it when he sold the presidency to the world's
richest man? Like, at some point you got to realize
you were a dupe. We need some class holidarity in here.
You will never be the one percent. Ever, you will
not be. I don't think y'all can fathom how much
(31:33):
money these people have.
Speaker 2 (31:35):
You can't.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
I don't think our brands can even comprehend how wealthy
these people are. It would take like over two hundred
oprah Renfrees to be one.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Elon Musk.
Speaker 1 (31:48):
Taylor Swift, who's a certified billionaire's closer an income to
a person who works at McDonald's this year is to
Elon Musk. So I think what I'm sick of is
like the I guess i'll call them pick meies, the
capitalist pick mes. And we all engage in capitalism. Obviously
we're here on a podcast that is being funded by money.
(32:08):
I'm not saying that, you know, just because you engage
in capitalism you're bad. But like the former capitalism that
Elon Musk is engaging in, it will never be you.
You will never have that much money. You will never
you will never become the world's richest man on your
crypto or by you know, sucking up to Elon Musk.
And I'm taking tired of the people thinking that if
they just emulate what they're doing, they'll become one of
those people.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Right, And I don't know why people still haven't realized it,
but for him to be that wealthy, you have to
stay that poor. Yeah, So it's not gonna Yeah, that's
that's the thing that's not gonna change.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Listen, resources are finite, So in so much money, there's
go in so many houses doing so much food. Food
can be replenished. But the sources of the food are finite,
you know what I mean. In order for the people
at the bottom to have something, the people at the
top are gonna have.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
To give something up or have it snatched out of
their hands. Yep. And that's just the truth. We can't
all live at the top.
Speaker 3 (32:59):
You gonna give it to me, I'm gonna take it exactly.
That's where it's at. That's where it's at. And the
final thing is I always like to leave people just
with like a phrase that like, motive is motivating you
for this year.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
I've been saying this for years. I don't even know
where I got this from.
Speaker 1 (33:15):
But you know, everything works out in the end, and
if it's not working out, it's just not the end.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
M just keep going, just keep going through. I love that.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I wouldn't go see Lizo last night at the wheel
Turn and I'm not really into like love w type stuff,
but she had a moment that really got me good
and she was talking about love in real life. And
I live on the Internet and the Internet is a vapid, vapid,
nasty place. It is so easy to get wrapped up
in what it feels like the world is full of hate.
There there's a lot of love out there. Yeah, there
(33:46):
really is a lot of love out there in the world,
a lot of people who want to do good, who
don't know how to do good, who think they're doing good.
I've been guilty of all these things as well, you know.
And I never give a message like this because I'm
really not a love w type bitch. But like, there
genuinely is a lot of love out there.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
Look y'all, we got Bob to give a love message.
Thank you for coming on Fighting Words today, and congratulations
on the new book.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Thank you. It's my pleasure.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
People will never fight for your freedom if you have
not given evidence that you are prepared to fight for
it yourself. This is a quote from Baird Rustin, whom
Bob mentioned. Baird was considered one of the most important
architects of the civil rights movement and mlk's right hand man,
but his name was largely forgotten until recently. Rustin was
(34:40):
openly gay and was raised by his breaker grandmother, Julia Rustin,
who always affirmed his sexuality. One of his most important
contributions was organized into March on Washington in August nineteen
sixty three with a Philip Randolph That quote makes me
think about a quote that I wrote in my book
All Boys Aren't Blue. The first person you have to
(35:01):
be an activist for is yourself. It also ties so
much to religion when you think about how faith without
works is dead, or the saying God helps those who
help themselves. As a community, we must all come together
to fight against the injustices that is currently happening to
the LGBTQ community, But we must all remember that that
(35:24):
fight does start with us who we are as people,
who we are as individuals, and we must be resilient
in this fight for equality injustice. Thanks for listening to
Fighting Words and hope you'll join us for another round
next week. Fighting Words is a production of iHeart Podcasts
(35:49):
in partnership with Best Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This
episode was produced by Charlotte Morley. Is That Could. Producers
are myself and Twiggy Pugi Guar Song with Adam Pinkins
and Brick Cats for Best Case Studios. The theme song
was written and composed by cole Vos Bambianna and myself.
Original music by cole Vas. This episode was edited and
(36:13):
scored by Max Michael Miller. Our iHeart Team is Ali
Perry and Carl Ketel, following rap Fighting Words Wherever you
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