December 9, 2025 • 30 mins
George is joined by Ian L. Haddock, the founder and executive director of the Normal Anomaly Initiative, a nonprofit that provides direct services to the LGBTQ+ community in Houston. Ian tells George about getting kicked out of his house as a teenager; finding a new home with the LGBTQ+ community in Houston, and starting his own organization.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
My chosen father was a person living with HIV. I
saw this person getting up every day and going against
what people thought would be a death sentence and just
getting up and going to work and then going to school,
and then coming home and cooking for somebody that was
not his biological child. And I just remember, like the
beauty of that, and I said, I want to write
(00:21):
about that.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is Ian L.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Haddock.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
In twenty sixteen, he started blogging stories about the queer
black experience, especially in the South where he's from, but
he felt like it wasn't enough.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
What I started to realize is that telling stories are
so powerful. But on my end, I just felt a
heaviness in my heart. Yes, we're telling the stories, but
for people that I'm talking to, we're not changing their narratives.
The world is better because their story is told, but
their world isn't better because their story is told.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
As a result, Ian founded the Normal Anomaly Initiative, a
nonprofit that provides direct services to the LGBTQ plus community
in Houston.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm super grateful to have him on fighting words.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Today, singing in the heavy handed with the world, take
a super branded and the spooking guy, you know, what
the plan is, or became a Latin.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You know, one does understand me.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
My name is George M. Johnson.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I am the New York Times bestselling author of the
book All Boys Are in Blue, which is the number
one most challenged book in the United States. This is
Fighting Words, a show where we take you to the
front lines of the culture wars with the people who
are using their words to make change and who refuse
to be silenced.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Today's guest, Ian L.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Had It.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Welcome to Fighting Words today.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Ian.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
How you doing.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Oh my gosh, I'm on Fighting Words. How you doing.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'm on book tour, so wearing multiple hats and hopping
on planes, in cars, out of cars, and just working
all the time. I think sometimes our bios precede us.
So if you could let everyone listening know who is
Ian L.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Haddock. Yeah, I'm a little boy. I'm still like a
fifteen year old boy from Lamark, Texas, trying to find
my way, trying to find community. I found that through
the black LGBT community. That community has been my savior
in that I started an organization to save myself called
(02:42):
the Normal Anomaly Initiative, and we've been able to do
some great things here in Houston and across Texas, including
direct services and capacity building and storytelling.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
So, like, you know, tell me about like Houston. What
is your relationship to the city of Houston. I've been
used a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It's big.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
It is airport big, it is like nine Wards big.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It is.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It's just a big.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Ass it, which I guess at times could be hard
to make community when a city is that large.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
What's been your relationship to Yeah, I came to Houston
when I was about sixteen years old, kicked out of
my out of my family's house because of me choosing
to be The language was I chose to be gay.
I had a choice to be to be gay out
to stay at home, and I definitely chose to leave home.
(03:40):
I was kicked out when I was sixteen from a
town maybe thirty forty five minutes south of Houston, and
so I came to Houston. Like most people think La
New York is their big city, you know, that's their
dream city. For me, being from a small town in Texas,
Houston was the big city for me. And I came
(04:01):
here because there were queer folk and there were people
that looked in love like me and I, you know,
slept under the Metro. I couch served for a while.
So really I got to know Houston very very early
in my life, you know, staying on people's couches, whether
it was in Third Ward about the Galleria, and so
(04:22):
I felt like I grew up with Houston just because
I was a nomad. I was homeless for much of
my young adult life, and so I got to know
different type of people. You know, people often make the
joke about a hobo sexual and as a former hobosexual
(04:43):
or for the listeners out there, if you don't know
what a hobosexual is, it's a person that don't got
a place and so they will be sexual. That was me,
you know for most of my no I mean yeah,
like so that was most of my life. So I
got to know Houston in a very intimate way. And
(05:04):
you know, Houston is my community, you know, as a
person that was navigating sexual trauma and sex work, trying
to deal with that sexual trauma and do that work,
I found a lot of people that just really coached
me through that and loved me through that. And so
I'm really embraced by Houston, and I feel like this
(05:25):
is you know my family.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I love that. So can you just tell me like
a little bit more about like the normal Anomaly initiative.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, the Normal Anomaly initiative was birthed out of people
who walk before us. I never forget, you know, shout
out to you, George. I never forget watching you come
out to your fraternity on social media. Had no.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Somebody mentioned that to me the other day and I
was like, I really was not to say I was reckless,
but I was definitely like not give a shit. I
was more radical, I guess than I thought I was
being at the time. I thought I was just doing
like talking about this the whole time. They was like, girl,
you were shaking tables.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Like yeah, yeah, I remember seeing that. I had no
concept of who you were, so I didn't know you
as a journalist or as a writer. I just saw
like this person who said, like, this is my story
and we need to tell it. And then there were
other you know, bloggers, Muse magazine that was Renal Matters.
I was just really moved by the conversations that were
(06:36):
being had. But oftentimes, in my experience, I felt so
privileged even though I was so poor and so kind
of out of it. I felt privileged that my experience
was one, although traumatic, full of joy, like there were
so many people around me who were going against the odds,
who were not taking no for an answer and just trying.
(07:00):
I say, I was raised my chosen father was a
person living with HIV who was in his master's program
and was working frontline and HIV. And I saw this person.
I had no concept of HIV, but I saw this
person getting up every day and going against what people thought,
(07:20):
would you know, be a death sentence and just getting
up and going to work and then going to school
and then coming home and cooking for somebody that was
not his biological child. And I just remembered, like the
beauty of that, And I said, I want to write
about that. And I'm not really a writer, you know,
I didn't consider myself a writer at that time, but
I wanted to put something on paper about that, and
(07:42):
so I started a blog. And then around COVID nineteen,
what I started to realize is that telling stories are
so powerful, and I'm grateful for storytellers, but on my end,
I just felt a heaviness in my heart that like, yes,
we're telling the stories, but for people that I'm talking
(08:05):
to We're not changing their narratives, Like the world isn't
the world is better because their story is told. But
their world isn't better because their story is told. And
so that's when we got into a nonprofit and started
doing direct services, capacity building, technical assistance, training building, entrepreneurs
(08:27):
building curriculum that really took the community from let me
just tell you what's going on. Let me tell you about,
you know, some possibility models to let's make you one,
let's make us one?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Right, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I mean I think about like my time even working
in community healthcare work as helping us, and it really
was like the storytelling is just one aspect of it.
Like you said, it can inspire people to be moved,
but the resources still have to be there to make
the movement happen. And so like when you decided, you know,
to turn this into like much bigger than a storytelling project,
(09:03):
Like what resources were you able to to even like
pull from because you did work as the program manager
right for the first County HIV Prevention Department, which I
mean is interesting, like the first County HIV Prevention Department
and like to tooth, it's like girl, it took that long.
But yes, but people don't understand, like there are still
(09:25):
like a lot of healthcare deserts.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, Harris County is the county that Houston sits in,
and they have for decades upon decades split prevention and treatment.
So the ron white dollars comes from the county and
the prevention dollars comes from the city. You know, when
you think about like these two bureaucratic entities saying like, Okay,
(09:51):
I'm doing prevention and I'm doing treatment when we're in
a world where treatment is prevention and prevention is treatment,
it's like, yeah, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Right, And so you were able to kind of use
your knowledge of the systems to kind of close that
gap for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, and I think that that is queer folks superpower,
you know, like particularly black LGBT folks, Like we experience
the system in a way that it is actually set
out to be. Right. These systems, political systems are not
built for black people, are not built for queer people, right,
(10:30):
and so since they are not built for us, then
we experience them as they are set out to be.
And so we have a very unique and nuanced leans
on how to fix the system because we get to
experience it how it was set out to be. And
that's different than our white counterparts. That's different than our
(10:52):
heterosexual kind of parts, because pieces of them experience the
system different than how it was set out to be.
But as black GBT people, everything in our existence says
this is not for you. And so I was able
to take those systems that I was intricately and unintentionally
placed in to say, hey, I got some solutions.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
For that, right.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And now it's been very interesting in trying times because
you know, now this new administration, it's almost been one year,
always been one year, and it's.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Just been so much dismantling.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I know for me as a band author, like it
has totally infiltrated every part.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Of my life. How has it been for you?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I mean, like, literally, we have a lunatic at HHS
who is trying to bring back the measles and the
months and just a bunch of weird, outdated diseases. But
funding has also began to shift from certain orgs and
you can't use certain words like queer or trans and
proposals to try and get funding and try and get money.
(11:55):
So how has that affected your org.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, I mean day one of Trump's presidency, we lost
half of our budget and it's been hard to really
come back. We've had to downsize in multiple different ways.
And honestly, you know, I'm grateful for the support of funders,
but particularly community donors. You know, people that give five
(12:19):
or ten dollars when they can that really keep us alive.
But you know, it's been really tough. And you know,
for the first time this year, I went to the hospital.
I'm thirty eight years old. I've never been to the
emergency room, but I woke up one morning and I
just felt like I could not breathe and I could
(12:41):
not drive anywhere, and I was scared to call the
ambulance because I felt like, you know, I can't die
in the back of a I don't know what was
going on in my head, but anyway, I got to
the emergency room in a uber and they were like
checking all of my stuff and they're like, well, it's
kind of normal. Do you have anxiety? And I'm like,
(13:03):
abs the fuckolutely I have anxiety, doesn't everybody next question? So,
but I had never experienced it like that, and it's
so now I'm on medication, which I'm thankful for the
medication because it's made my life a lot better. But
I say that to say, like, you know, that is
(13:25):
what this world wants to do to us. Not that
like I'm glad I found out I had a mental illness,
but I'm saying like this world wants to take us out.
It wants to kill us. It wants to kill us,
it wants to take everything, both emotionally, spiritually, physically, and
so I've been fighting back.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And now back to my conversation with Ian L.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Haddock. I wonder, George, I know this is your podcast,
but I'm interested, do you think the pendulum will swing back?
And how long? If you do, how long do you
think it will take.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I mean it will swing back, right, Will it swing
all the way back like everything gets reversed. I don't
know if it's going to do that. I do know
that the pendulum will start to shift. And I mean,
if you look at certain things, it is shifting slowly right.
Now does that meaning shifts all the way to the left?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Four? Does that mean it shifts back center?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Does the country become like a centrist, middle of the
ground country like it was in the nineties, right when
you put a black conservative justice on the Supreme Court, right,
like when like that was nineties right, And literally I
tell people all the time, I'm like, y'all, uncle Phil
was a Republican and a black panther, like, like, really,
think about like the conservatism of the nineties, right, it
(15:02):
was very centrist and it was very moderate, but it
was that way on both sides of politics. I think
you're starting to see where a political shift is happening
to being back more moderate and centrist. You're starting to
see people have to be like, Okay, the country still
has to function, like it will shift back, but it
(15:23):
only shifts back with work, Like work has to be done,
Like you can't outvote fascism, Like there's no way to
outvote fascism. You actually have to change the systems that
are at play.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
And I don't know how many people are ready to
do that, but I do know.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
That it starts with the work that we do, and
I know it starts with arts and culture. Tony Morrison
has always talked about that. Angela Davis, Nigogievanni, Like the
list goes on where people are like no writers really
are what can help move the needle on this and
so you said you're not a writer, but you have
written a book.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yes, yes, So the thing is, writing is my first love.
I love writing. When I was younger, no one said that,
like I thought different or I had a neuro divergence,
but like I could tell. But I was really good
in school. I was exceptionally good in school, but I
(16:18):
just I just didn't do well in writing. My teachers
would say I was too creative, like I wasn't academic enough.
And so I went to college and I wanted to
be a writer also, but I just you know, I
couldn't pass English. I struggled with that a while, and.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
So I wasn't great at English. First thing, I was
good at writing, but not. No, it's like kind of
a funny story, like I didn't I didn't really do
like super great on my English sat like I knocked
math at the park, but I didn't do the best
one me too and became a writer. So right, So
I've had a recording just recently. Honestly, I've had a
(17:03):
lot of difficulty, you know, reckoning with me not being
an academic. And this is the first time that I'm
kind of really talking about this because it literally has
just happened. And I'm literally just having this conversation with
my close friends and also my therapist, like what does
(17:23):
that mean? And so recently I've just gotten back into college.
I'm starting next semester, and it's not necessarily because I
need a degree. I mean, I have the job that
I desire, I'm doing okay in life, but I have
to reckon with the fact that like, I haven't felt
I haven't felt good enough in that way, and that's
(17:45):
no one's thought but mind. So I have to do
that work, and a part of that is going back
to college. One of the things that I believe happens
in marginalized communities is that like when you get to
a level of success because of a certain thing, it
becomes your personality in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And so I've been this kind of like rebel do
what I want, where what I want, go where I want,
say what I want kind of person and that has
become in my mind who I was. But I can
make a different choice today, right, So I don't have
to be the rebel who didn't graduate, who still did
(18:29):
what they wanted and all that kind of stuff. I
can have done that and say, but I want a
different choice today.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And ultimately, do you have like a higher goal or
a higher desire?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I find it interesting because, like, you know, I really
was thirty when I was like, Okay, I got a
master's degree. I'm in my job that I thought would
be my dream job, and I'm just not fulfilled.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I need to make like.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
A career change and a choice that may be hard
for some to believe in, but it's something that makes
sense to me.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I want to do this. I want to be a writer.
Do you have any like additional goals?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
And I'm finally find it is I just turned forty
that like a lot of these thoughts do start to
come to your mind, Like what else more do I
want out of life?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I don't. I don't even know. I could not have
imagined this life so far. It still feels super surreal,
and there's a lot of survivor's guilt that like I
have to manage just because like I just did not
(19:36):
imagine I would be here both physically and like you know, professionally.
I just could not imagine this life before, and so
I don't. I can't. Yeah, I can't imagine what's next.
But what I will say is that the divine has
a beautiful way in my life personally of creating situation
(20:00):
to urge me to do a thing in preparation of
the next thing. And so I'm leaning on that divine
push to open up the possibilities of what could be
in the future.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So I've read that you were inspired by a bay
Or Rustling quote the only weapon we have is our bodies,
and we need to tuck them in places so wheels
don't turn. Yeah, can you just tell me about that
quote and what it means to you? It means very powerful,
But what does that quote mean to you?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
A couple of things. Number one, I talked about my
chosen father, who is a person who is a person
living with HIV, and I remember him taking me to
my first intervention in a you know, community health space,
which at that time was many men, many.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Voices, yes, threev.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And I was looking around and there were all kind
of people in you know the space with us, you know,
drag queens, trans women, There were people living with and
people impacted by HIV. I had no understanding of HIV,
and I when I came out, one of the first
things that my mother said was that I would you know,
(21:27):
get AIDS. Excuse my expression, but I would get AIDS
and die, you know, because that was the only thing
that a small town woman knew about being queer, and
so I had kind of accepted that. I kind of
accepted HIV and hell as like one beautiful thing that
was my destiny. And so learning about HIV and the
(21:50):
fact that I could prevent it for myself seemed pretty cool,
except for I wasn't interested in doing the preventive method
I wasn't. I mean, y'all get it. I wasn't interested
in the preventive methods. And so you know, over time,
I just kind of accept it, like at some point
(22:12):
I'll get tested, It'll be reactive, and I'll die. I'll
go to hell. Cool, like that's what's going to happen.
But I remember, like every time, being terrified to get tested,
and you know, at least half of the time, somebody
would come back reactive and I wouldn't, and I would
be looking like, now, I know I've been carrying on,
(22:37):
why is this happening? And then PREP came up, came up,
and it was an opportunity for me, and over time,
when the new drugs came out, the injection they were
doing studies. And that's when this buyer rustling quote really
like started to deeply resonate with me, because black and
(23:00):
bodies hadn't been in these types of studies, and it's
because we have medical mistrust and medical distrust and so
on and so forth. But I thought about, like, hey,
you know what, actually, not only will I be protecting
myself as we get in this clinical trial, but really,
if I have to use my body to make more
(23:22):
black men comfortable with this opportunity, then that's what I
have to do. And so for the last couple of years,
I've been in this study to try to develop this
two times a year injection, and so I just think about,
like how many times that's been done on my behalf?
And that is the work, right, And that is the
(23:43):
larger picture I think people need to understand, is that
like a part of your advocacy should be about putting
yourself in spaces, so no matter how incremental it can be,
that things don't move just because your body is there.
And so I think that that is the power.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And now back to my conversation with Ian L.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Haddock, So what do you think now, like moving forward,
what does the work look like for you, and.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
How do we continue, you know, on a path of.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I guess the ultimate goal should always be a world
without AIDS an HIV.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
How do we get there?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Like, because sometimes I find myself struggling as an activists
who's publicly positive.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I'm like, I just don't know anymore.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Like we have so many fights and you know how
to get there, because sometimes I feel like I don't
even know how to how.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
To walk outside.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, no, I think. I think I keep a sliver
of hope, just a sliver. But I will also say that, like,
we can't end HIV without ending all the things that
lead up to it. And so when you think about
that in a larger context, like people not trying to
end homelessness. They're not trying to end job insecurity, They're
(25:36):
not trying to end transportation issues and infrastructural issues, right Like,
they're not trying to end that. And so black and
brown people will continue to unfortunately get HIV because HIV
is a symptom of a much larger disease, and the
disease is poverty and environmental issues and so on and
(25:58):
so forth. But I will say that the future of
the work to me is reaching across disease states, it's
reaching across missions. One of the things that I'm really
hopeful for is that in all of our movements, we
get a better grasp on what we expect allies to do.
I think that when we consider allyship in the past,
(26:22):
it's just like all or nothing, like sacrifice your life
so that I can live. I think that's unrealistic. And
I also think that it's not helpful when allies are
allies by name only. And so I'm trying to figure
out what that balance looks like because I think that
we are going to have to You know, everybody is
loving the term accomplice, but I'm using ally in terms
(26:47):
of alliance and not necessarily about like walking side by side, No,
Like how can we build together? How can we reach
across disease states, across socio economic status? Like how can
we reach across those things and build something that's fruitful together?
And I think that that is really the future of
(27:10):
my work and the future of the work at large,
is just to figure out how do we build alliances
that are productive, protective, and constructive for marginalized people.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Just one more thing I did want to ask you,
what is like maybe just some words and encouragement that
you maybe say to yourself when you're down that you
think may help someone else.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, recently I've been saying this a lot and it's
really helped me. So I think we always, as people
who love people, we always ask, like, you know, what
is what is it I can do? Like? What is
there to do? What do you need? You know? Those
are really wonderful questions. But the question I have been
(28:08):
really sitting with as I walk into space and as
I get better boundaries, because of my anxiety and because
of like the current system, I've been asking what is
mine to give? And I think that's a really powerful
question to ask yourself, is what is mine to give?
Because there's always a lot to do, there are always
(28:34):
a lot of problems, and you may even have Is
(28:55):
that mine to give right now? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It's beautiful. Ian.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I want to thank you for coming on fighting words,
and thank you for the work that you continue to do,
especially in the South. The work is important globally, but
it's even more important in areas that have been neglected
by so many institutions. So grateful to have you in
community down there to make sure that people are getting
the resources they need.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much
for the invite.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Fighting Words is a production of iHeart Podcasts in partnership
with Best's Case Studios. I'm Georgia Johnson. This episode was
produced by Charlotte Morley as That Could. Producers are myself
and Twiggy p g gar Song with Adam Pinks and
Brick Cats for Best Case Studios. The theme song was
written and composed by Kovas Banbianna and Myself.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Original music by Kovas. This episode was edited and scored
by Max Michael Miller.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel. Following Rake,
Fighting Words Wherever you get your Podcast
My chosen father was a person living with HIV. I
saw this person getting up every day and going against
what people thought would be a death sentence and just
getting up and going to work and then going to school,
and then coming home and cooking for somebody that was
not his biological child. And I just remember, like the
beauty of that, and I said, I want to write
(00:21):
about that.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
This is Ian L.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Haddock.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
In twenty sixteen, he started blogging stories about the queer
black experience, especially in the South where he's from, but
he felt like it wasn't enough.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
What I started to realize is that telling stories are
so powerful. But on my end, I just felt a
heaviness in my heart. Yes, we're telling the stories, but
for people that I'm talking to, we're not changing their narratives.
The world is better because their story is told, but
their world isn't better because their story is told.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
As a result, Ian founded the Normal Anomaly Initiative, a
nonprofit that provides direct services to the LGBTQ plus community
in Houston.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I'm super grateful to have him on fighting words.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Today, singing in the heavy handed with the world, take
a super branded and the spooking guy, you know, what
the plan is, or became a Latin.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You know, one does understand me.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
My name is George M. Johnson.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I am the New York Times bestselling author of the
book All Boys Are in Blue, which is the number
one most challenged book in the United States. This is
Fighting Words, a show where we take you to the
front lines of the culture wars with the people who
are using their words to make change and who refuse
to be silenced.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Today's guest, Ian L.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Had It.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Welcome to Fighting Words today.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Ian.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
How you doing.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Oh my gosh, I'm on Fighting Words. How you doing.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I'm good.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I'm on book tour, so wearing multiple hats and hopping
on planes, in cars, out of cars, and just working
all the time. I think sometimes our bios precede us.
So if you could let everyone listening know who is
Ian L.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Haddock. Yeah, I'm a little boy. I'm still like a
fifteen year old boy from Lamark, Texas, trying to find
my way, trying to find community. I found that through
the black LGBT community. That community has been my savior
in that I started an organization to save myself called
(02:42):
the Normal Anomaly Initiative, and we've been able to do
some great things here in Houston and across Texas, including
direct services and capacity building and storytelling.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
So, like, you know, tell me about like Houston. What
is your relationship to the city of Houston. I've been
used a lot of times.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
It's big.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
It is airport big, it is like nine Wards big.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
It is.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It's just a big.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Ass it, which I guess at times could be hard
to make community when a city is that large.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
What's been your relationship to Yeah, I came to Houston
when I was about sixteen years old, kicked out of
my out of my family's house because of me choosing
to be The language was I chose to be gay.
I had a choice to be to be gay out
to stay at home, and I definitely chose to leave home.
(03:40):
I was kicked out when I was sixteen from a
town maybe thirty forty five minutes south of Houston, and
so I came to Houston. Like most people think La
New York is their big city, you know, that's their
dream city. For me, being from a small town in Texas,
Houston was the big city for me. And I came
(04:01):
here because there were queer folk and there were people
that looked in love like me and I, you know,
slept under the Metro. I couch served for a while.
So really I got to know Houston very very early
in my life, you know, staying on people's couches, whether
it was in Third Ward about the Galleria, and so
(04:22):
I felt like I grew up with Houston just because
I was a nomad. I was homeless for much of
my young adult life, and so I got to know
different type of people. You know, people often make the
joke about a hobo sexual and as a former hobosexual
(04:43):
or for the listeners out there, if you don't know
what a hobosexual is, it's a person that don't got
a place and so they will be sexual. That was me,
you know for most of my no I mean yeah,
like so that was most of my life. So I
got to know Houston in a very intimate way. And
(05:04):
you know, Houston is my community, you know, as a
person that was navigating sexual trauma and sex work, trying
to deal with that sexual trauma and do that work,
I found a lot of people that just really coached
me through that and loved me through that. And so
I'm really embraced by Houston, and I feel like this
(05:25):
is you know my family.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I love that. So can you just tell me like
a little bit more about like the normal Anomaly initiative.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, the Normal Anomaly initiative was birthed out of people
who walk before us. I never forget, you know, shout
out to you, George. I never forget watching you come
out to your fraternity on social media. Had no.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Somebody mentioned that to me the other day and I
was like, I really was not to say I was reckless,
but I was definitely like not give a shit. I
was more radical, I guess than I thought I was
being at the time. I thought I was just doing
like talking about this the whole time. They was like, girl,
you were shaking tables.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Like yeah, yeah, I remember seeing that. I had no
concept of who you were, so I didn't know you
as a journalist or as a writer. I just saw
like this person who said, like, this is my story
and we need to tell it. And then there were
other you know, bloggers, Muse magazine that was Renal Matters.
I was just really moved by the conversations that were
(06:36):
being had. But oftentimes, in my experience, I felt so
privileged even though I was so poor and so kind
of out of it. I felt privileged that my experience
was one, although traumatic, full of joy, like there were
so many people around me who were going against the odds,
who were not taking no for an answer and just trying.
(07:00):
I say, I was raised my chosen father was a
person living with HIV who was in his master's program
and was working frontline and HIV. And I saw this person.
I had no concept of HIV, but I saw this
person getting up every day and going against what people thought,
(07:20):
would you know, be a death sentence and just getting
up and going to work and then going to school
and then coming home and cooking for somebody that was
not his biological child. And I just remembered, like the
beauty of that, And I said, I want to write
about that. And I'm not really a writer, you know,
I didn't consider myself a writer at that time, but
I wanted to put something on paper about that, and
(07:42):
so I started a blog. And then around COVID nineteen,
what I started to realize is that telling stories are
so powerful, and I'm grateful for storytellers, but on my end,
I just felt a heaviness in my heart that like, yes,
we're telling the stories, but for people that I'm talking
(08:05):
to We're not changing their narratives, Like the world isn't
the world is better because their story is told. But
their world isn't better because their story is told. And
so that's when we got into a nonprofit and started
doing direct services, capacity building, technical assistance, training building, entrepreneurs
(08:27):
building curriculum that really took the community from let me
just tell you what's going on. Let me tell you about,
you know, some possibility models to let's make you one,
let's make us one?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Right, that's amazing.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
I mean I think about like my time even working
in community healthcare work as helping us, and it really
was like the storytelling is just one aspect of it.
Like you said, it can inspire people to be moved,
but the resources still have to be there to make
the movement happen. And so like when you decided, you know,
to turn this into like much bigger than a storytelling project,
(09:03):
Like what resources were you able to to even like
pull from because you did work as the program manager
right for the first County HIV Prevention Department, which I
mean is interesting, like the first County HIV Prevention Department
and like to tooth, it's like girl, it took that long.
But yes, but people don't understand, like there are still
(09:25):
like a lot of healthcare deserts.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, Harris County is the county that Houston sits in,
and they have for decades upon decades split prevention and treatment.
So the ron white dollars comes from the county and
the prevention dollars comes from the city. You know, when
you think about like these two bureaucratic entities saying like, Okay,
(09:51):
I'm doing prevention and I'm doing treatment when we're in
a world where treatment is prevention and prevention is treatment,
it's like, yeah, it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
Right, And so you were able to kind of use
your knowledge of the systems to kind of close that
gap for a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Yeah, and I think that that is queer folks superpower,
you know, like particularly black LGBT folks, Like we experience
the system in a way that it is actually set
out to be. Right. These systems, political systems are not
built for black people, are not built for queer people, right,
(10:30):
and so since they are not built for us, then
we experience them as they are set out to be.
And so we have a very unique and nuanced leans
on how to fix the system because we get to
experience it how it was set out to be. And
that's different than our white counterparts. That's different than our
(10:52):
heterosexual kind of parts, because pieces of them experience the
system different than how it was set out to be.
But as black GBT people, everything in our existence says
this is not for you. And so I was able
to take those systems that I was intricately and unintentionally
placed in to say, hey, I got some solutions.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
For that, right.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
And now it's been very interesting in trying times because
you know, now this new administration, it's almost been one year,
always been one year, and it's.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Just been so much dismantling.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
I know for me as a band author, like it
has totally infiltrated every part.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Of my life. How has it been for you?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
I mean, like, literally, we have a lunatic at HHS
who is trying to bring back the measles and the
months and just a bunch of weird, outdated diseases. But
funding has also began to shift from certain orgs and
you can't use certain words like queer or trans and
proposals to try and get funding and try and get money.
(11:55):
So how has that affected your org.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, I mean day one of Trump's presidency, we lost
half of our budget and it's been hard to really
come back. We've had to downsize in multiple different ways.
And honestly, you know, I'm grateful for the support of funders,
but particularly community donors. You know, people that give five
(12:19):
or ten dollars when they can that really keep us alive.
But you know, it's been really tough. And you know,
for the first time this year, I went to the hospital.
I'm thirty eight years old. I've never been to the
emergency room, but I woke up one morning and I
just felt like I could not breathe and I could
(12:41):
not drive anywhere, and I was scared to call the
ambulance because I felt like, you know, I can't die
in the back of a I don't know what was
going on in my head, but anyway, I got to
the emergency room in a uber and they were like
checking all of my stuff and they're like, well, it's
kind of normal. Do you have anxiety? And I'm like,
(13:03):
abs the fuckolutely I have anxiety, doesn't everybody next question? So,
but I had never experienced it like that, and it's
so now I'm on medication, which I'm thankful for the
medication because it's made my life a lot better. But
I say that to say, like, you know, that is
(13:25):
what this world wants to do to us. Not that
like I'm glad I found out I had a mental illness,
but I'm saying like this world wants to take us out.
It wants to kill us. It wants to kill us,
it wants to take everything, both emotionally, spiritually, physically, and
so I've been fighting back.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And now back to my conversation with Ian L.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Haddock. I wonder, George, I know this is your podcast,
but I'm interested, do you think the pendulum will swing back?
And how long? If you do, how long do you
think it will take.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
I mean it will swing back, right, Will it swing
all the way back like everything gets reversed. I don't
know if it's going to do that. I do know
that the pendulum will start to shift. And I mean,
if you look at certain things, it is shifting slowly right.
Now does that meaning shifts all the way to the left?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Four? Does that mean it shifts back center?
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Does the country become like a centrist, middle of the
ground country like it was in the nineties, right when
you put a black conservative justice on the Supreme Court, right,
like when like that was nineties right, And literally I
tell people all the time, I'm like, y'all, uncle Phil
was a Republican and a black panther, like, like, really,
think about like the conservatism of the nineties, right, it
(15:02):
was very centrist and it was very moderate, but it
was that way on both sides of politics. I think
you're starting to see where a political shift is happening
to being back more moderate and centrist. You're starting to
see people have to be like, Okay, the country still
has to function, like it will shift back, but it
(15:23):
only shifts back with work, Like work has to be done,
Like you can't outvote fascism, Like there's no way to
outvote fascism. You actually have to change the systems that
are at play.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
And I don't know how many people are ready to
do that, but I do know.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
That it starts with the work that we do, and
I know it starts with arts and culture. Tony Morrison
has always talked about that. Angela Davis, Nigogievanni, Like the
list goes on where people are like no writers really
are what can help move the needle on this and
so you said you're not a writer, but you have
written a book.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yes, yes, So the thing is, writing is my first love.
I love writing. When I was younger, no one said that,
like I thought different or I had a neuro divergence,
but like I could tell. But I was really good
in school. I was exceptionally good in school, but I
(16:18):
just I just didn't do well in writing. My teachers
would say I was too creative, like I wasn't academic enough.
And so I went to college and I wanted to
be a writer also, but I just you know, I
couldn't pass English. I struggled with that a while, and.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
So I wasn't great at English. First thing, I was
good at writing, but not. No, it's like kind of
a funny story, like I didn't I didn't really do
like super great on my English sat like I knocked
math at the park, but I didn't do the best
one me too and became a writer. So right, So
I've had a recording just recently. Honestly, I've had a
(17:03):
lot of difficulty, you know, reckoning with me not being
an academic. And this is the first time that I'm
kind of really talking about this because it literally has
just happened. And I'm literally just having this conversation with
my close friends and also my therapist, like what does
(17:23):
that mean? And so recently I've just gotten back into college.
I'm starting next semester, and it's not necessarily because I
need a degree. I mean, I have the job that
I desire, I'm doing okay in life, but I have
to reckon with the fact that like, I haven't felt
I haven't felt good enough in that way, and that's
(17:45):
no one's thought but mind. So I have to do
that work, and a part of that is going back
to college. One of the things that I believe happens
in marginalized communities is that like when you get to
a level of success because of a certain thing, it
becomes your personality in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And so I've been this kind of like rebel do
what I want, where what I want, go where I want,
say what I want kind of person and that has
become in my mind who I was. But I can
make a different choice today, right, So I don't have
to be the rebel who didn't graduate, who still did
(18:29):
what they wanted and all that kind of stuff. I
can have done that and say, but I want a
different choice today.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
And ultimately, do you have like a higher goal or
a higher desire?
Speaker 3 (18:41):
I find it interesting because, like, you know, I really
was thirty when I was like, Okay, I got a
master's degree. I'm in my job that I thought would
be my dream job, and I'm just not fulfilled.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I need to make like.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
A career change and a choice that may be hard
for some to believe in, but it's something that makes
sense to me.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
I want to do this. I want to be a writer.
Do you have any like additional goals?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
And I'm finally find it is I just turned forty
that like a lot of these thoughts do start to
come to your mind, Like what else more do I
want out of life?
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I don't. I don't even know. I could not have
imagined this life so far. It still feels super surreal,
and there's a lot of survivor's guilt that like I
have to manage just because like I just did not
(19:36):
imagine I would be here both physically and like you know, professionally.
I just could not imagine this life before, and so
I don't. I can't. Yeah, I can't imagine what's next.
But what I will say is that the divine has
a beautiful way in my life personally of creating situation
(20:00):
to urge me to do a thing in preparation of
the next thing. And so I'm leaning on that divine
push to open up the possibilities of what could be
in the future.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
So I've read that you were inspired by a bay
Or Rustling quote the only weapon we have is our bodies,
and we need to tuck them in places so wheels
don't turn. Yeah, can you just tell me about that
quote and what it means to you? It means very powerful,
But what does that quote mean to you?
Speaker 1 (20:43):
A couple of things. Number one, I talked about my
chosen father, who is a person who is a person
living with HIV, and I remember him taking me to
my first intervention in a you know, community health space,
which at that time was many men, many.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Voices, yes, threev.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
And I was looking around and there were all kind
of people in you know the space with us, you know,
drag queens, trans women, There were people living with and
people impacted by HIV. I had no understanding of HIV,
and I when I came out, one of the first
things that my mother said was that I would you know,
(21:27):
get AIDS. Excuse my expression, but I would get AIDS
and die, you know, because that was the only thing
that a small town woman knew about being queer, and
so I had kind of accepted that. I kind of
accepted HIV and hell as like one beautiful thing that
was my destiny. And so learning about HIV and the
(21:50):
fact that I could prevent it for myself seemed pretty cool,
except for I wasn't interested in doing the preventive method
I wasn't. I mean, y'all get it. I wasn't interested
in the preventive methods. And so you know, over time,
I just kind of accept it, like at some point
(22:12):
I'll get tested, It'll be reactive, and I'll die. I'll
go to hell. Cool, like that's what's going to happen.
But I remember, like every time, being terrified to get tested,
and you know, at least half of the time, somebody
would come back reactive and I wouldn't, and I would
be looking like, now, I know I've been carrying on,
(22:37):
why is this happening? And then PREP came up, came up,
and it was an opportunity for me, and over time,
when the new drugs came out, the injection they were
doing studies. And that's when this buyer rustling quote really
like started to deeply resonate with me, because black and
(23:00):
bodies hadn't been in these types of studies, and it's
because we have medical mistrust and medical distrust and so
on and so forth. But I thought about, like, hey,
you know what, actually, not only will I be protecting
myself as we get in this clinical trial, but really,
if I have to use my body to make more
(23:22):
black men comfortable with this opportunity, then that's what I
have to do. And so for the last couple of years,
I've been in this study to try to develop this
two times a year injection, and so I just think about,
like how many times that's been done on my behalf?
And that is the work, right, And that is the
(23:43):
larger picture I think people need to understand, is that
like a part of your advocacy should be about putting
yourself in spaces, so no matter how incremental it can be,
that things don't move just because your body is there.
And so I think that that is the power.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
And now back to my conversation with Ian L.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Haddock, So what do you think now, like moving forward,
what does the work look like for you, and.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
How do we continue, you know, on a path of.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
I guess the ultimate goal should always be a world
without AIDS an HIV.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
How do we get there?
Speaker 3 (24:55):
Like, because sometimes I find myself struggling as an activists
who's publicly positive.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
I'm like, I just don't know anymore.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
Like we have so many fights and you know how
to get there, because sometimes I feel like I don't
even know how to how.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
To walk outside.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Yeah, no, I think. I think I keep a sliver
of hope, just a sliver. But I will also say that, like,
we can't end HIV without ending all the things that
lead up to it. And so when you think about
that in a larger context, like people not trying to
end homelessness. They're not trying to end job insecurity, They're
(25:36):
not trying to end transportation issues and infrastructural issues, right Like,
they're not trying to end that. And so black and
brown people will continue to unfortunately get HIV because HIV
is a symptom of a much larger disease, and the
disease is poverty and environmental issues and so on and
(25:58):
so forth. But I will say that the future of
the work to me is reaching across disease states, it's
reaching across missions. One of the things that I'm really
hopeful for is that in all of our movements, we
get a better grasp on what we expect allies to do.
I think that when we consider allyship in the past,
(26:22):
it's just like all or nothing, like sacrifice your life
so that I can live. I think that's unrealistic. And
I also think that it's not helpful when allies are
allies by name only. And so I'm trying to figure
out what that balance looks like because I think that
we are going to have to You know, everybody is
loving the term accomplice, but I'm using ally in terms
(26:47):
of alliance and not necessarily about like walking side by side, No,
Like how can we build together? How can we reach
across disease states, across socio economic status? Like how can
we reach across those things and build something that's fruitful together?
And I think that that is really the future of
(27:10):
my work and the future of the work at large,
is just to figure out how do we build alliances
that are productive, protective, and constructive for marginalized people.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Just one more thing I did want to ask you,
what is like maybe just some words and encouragement that
you maybe say to yourself when you're down that you
think may help someone else.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, recently I've been saying this a lot and it's
really helped me. So I think we always, as people
who love people, we always ask, like, you know, what
is what is it I can do? Like? What is
there to do? What do you need? You know? Those
are really wonderful questions. But the question I have been
(28:08):
really sitting with as I walk into space and as
I get better boundaries, because of my anxiety and because
of like the current system, I've been asking what is
mine to give? And I think that's a really powerful
question to ask yourself, is what is mine to give?
Because there's always a lot to do, there are always
(28:34):
a lot of problems, and you may even have Is
(28:55):
that mine to give right now? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It's beautiful. Ian.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I want to thank you for coming on fighting words,
and thank you for the work that you continue to do,
especially in the South. The work is important globally, but
it's even more important in areas that have been neglected
by so many institutions. So grateful to have you in
community down there to make sure that people are getting
the resources they need.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much
for the invite.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
Fighting Words is a production of iHeart Podcasts in partnership
with Best's Case Studios. I'm Georgia Johnson. This episode was
produced by Charlotte Morley as That Could. Producers are myself
and Twiggy p g gar Song with Adam Pinks and
Brick Cats for Best Case Studios. The theme song was
written and composed by Kovas Banbianna and Myself.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Original music by Kovas. This episode was edited and scored
by Max Michael Miller.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel. Following Rake,
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