February 25, 2025 • 45 mins
George is joined by actress, director, producer and activist Erika Alexander. You know her from Get Out, American Fiction, and her legendary role in one of George's all-time favorite shows, Living Single. That character was so influential, it has its own name in social psychology: data has shown that her role inspired numerous Black women to go into law, a phenomenon known as the Maxine Shaw Effect. We talk to her about staying relevant and making changes. Todays' Queer Artist Spotlight is on “Drip” by Sevn Deep.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
We're not allowed to lay in the cut and be
Meryl Street out of Africa and set there longingly and
have the camera look at us, you know, as the
object of desire.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
That's Erica Alexander. You might have seen her in movies
like get Out or American Fiction.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
That's why you see, you know, so many black actresses.
They've given it because they got to.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
They've got about two seconds and maybe three scenes if that.
They've got to very quickly command that and earn their
keep there.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
And sometimes that can.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Be an over sort of statement of what blackness is like.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
That's when you get.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The girl I'm talking about, then, you know, because we're
over doing it.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Erica knows what it's like to be a black actress
in Hollywood and not be afforded the same privileges and
roles as white actresses. That's part of why she decided
to start her own production company in twenty seventeen. It's
called Color Farm Media, and she describes it as the
motown of film, television and tech.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We want to rebrand blackness because imagine how long blackness
has been going through a filter of white males.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yes, and then what you get is sort of.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Maybe a Frankenstein monster of what black people are supposed
to be.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Erica is so many things, but to me, she will
always remain at heart Maxine Shaw, the unapologetic lawyer from
the TV show Living Single, like singing in the heavy
handy with the world, take a sip of branded and
(01:36):
he spoke your guy, you know what the plan is?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Or became a Latin.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
You know one doesn't understand me.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm Georgiam Johnson and this is Fighting Words, a show
about using your words to fight back and make change.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Let's get into it with Erica Alexander.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I am here today with I'm trying not the fangirl,
because everyone who knows me knows my favorite show in
the world is Living Single. I watch it on TV
one every morning from six to eight, then on Dabble
from eight to nine. I watch the marathons, I go
to sleep Boy, Hulu, all of it. But I am
here today with the iconic Erica Alexander. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Thank you, George.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I appreciate the invitation and I'm so sorry you were addicted.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
That's not my fault.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, you know, your whole generations, luckily, because of syndication,
has had many different lives. So I appreciate it because
it helps pay the utilities. But you know, your addiction
is my come up.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
So there you go, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I always feel like the higher you get, the more
public you become, the less human you become. And so
I always like people to introduce themselves. And so, who
is Erica Alexander.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Well, Eric Alexander is fifty five year old woman. I've
been an actress for forty years. Most people know me
from Living Single or The Cosby Show, but I've done
a ton of work in those forty years. And so
I see myself as an actress, a producer, a director.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
And an activist.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And I'm really proud of being the daughter of Sammy
Alexander and Robert Alexander, two orphans from the Southwest. I
have six brothers and sisters and they're all alive. My
father is not, but everyone else is. I also have
many godchildren, no children of my own, but everybody seems
to want to give me theirs, damn it. And I'm
(03:38):
really proud to this far into my career be of
sound mind. Yes, so far, i think I'm in my
right mind. I think I'm getting ready to not be
after the inauguration, but right now I'm in my right mind,
So there you go.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Yeah, same boat.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I was fighting all through the last administration anyway, because
I'm an active as well, whether it's HIV work, whether it
was the book bands, which I'm at the top of
the list pretty much for the bands, I say thank
you my fight. My fight doesn't stop. It's just that
my plans have to change because I'm fighting something a
little bit different now, and so it's like the fight continues,
(04:19):
but now I got to change something. Is it different?
Is the fight different or is it just changed clothes?
I think the for me, the fight never stopped. Like
when administration has changed, My fight doesn't stop. I just
think my plans on how I have to fight sometimes
looks different because, as you're exactly right, it changes closed.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
But that's them.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Struggles are still there, like that you just struggled that
wouldn't have changed one way or another. There were certain
struggles that were not going to erase exactly no matter
who got elected. And so I'm glad to say it
that way because the plans change a little bit, but
the fight has to always be there.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, as well as rest and joy, Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I know that's right. Recovery. It's important.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You've had a very unique career, as you state that
you've been doing this for nearly forty years. But as
a kid, was this something you always knew you wanted
to do?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was discovered when I was fourteen, and so I
wanted to be a scientist, and I had no idea
that acting would be my career. I just happened to
go to an audition when a merchant Ivory film came
to Philadelphia and they needed little brown and black girls
to audition. And I was in a six week program
and this was the fifth week of it at New
Freedom Theater in Philadelphia, and so they encouraged us all
(05:34):
to audition. Little did I know that in the Tri
State area, everyone would show up to that audition, including me.
When the dust cleared and the lead role that they
were looking for turned out to be me. I didn't
know then that that was going to give me not
only my SAG card, but also create a path that
(05:56):
I had not planned on.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So No, I had no idea i'd be an actor.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Wow, that's amazing, because you do it so well.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Thank you, Thank you, you know say I say sometimes
you know we wonder about you know, fate, and my mother,
I should say, is a very huge part of that,
because I think a mother pays attention to their children uniquely.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And she saw me perform in.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Fourth grade a play where it was Groundhog's Day and
I played a lawyer who was arguing against it being
on the calendar. I didn't know later on i'd be
living single. But what she noticed is that she said, oh,
I think you like acting. You should go to this
school of this performing art school. That was fourth grade.
So I think she was just trying to provide an
outlet for her children. She was always bartering two orphans.
(06:42):
They are not rich, so she was always trying to
figure out culture, ways in culture that she could provide
us that she thought would enrich our lives. I think
she saw it as armor that she may not be
there to protect us. She knew that we were uniquely
bound in this world and burdened with not only blackness,
(07:02):
but being female or being seen as being less.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Than because you have less.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So she thought speaking full sentences read a lot, make
sure you can write and decent grammar, and then also
make sure her children had culture in their lives.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
So that's what she did.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
That's awesome. And you know, like speaking on living single,
I think what.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I am most excited about is what you talked about recently,
the Maxine Shaw effect. Yes, so could you just talk
about the Maxine Shaw effects.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
The Maxine Shaw effect is a phenomenon that now we
have placed real data behind.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
We did a research project that this.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Extraordinaryly huge amount of women, especially black women, went into
law in executive position in politics because they were inspired
to aspire to leadership. ISSI by maxin Shaw and Maxingshaw
famously was this lawyer who is very you know, powerful
(08:07):
and vary into her self power independence. She was freed
from religiosity, which was unusual in the early nineties because
so many, especially black women, did a lot of things
because of patriarchy's filter to say, you know, what they
could do, or if you did something, you have to
go and apologize and make sure the person.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Max was not that at all.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
She was a Vettley Bowser's creation, and Vettlee Bowser had
wanted to be a lawyer. And then she cast Eric
Alexander who came from the mountains of Arizona and grew
up as a tomboy.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
And I did not necessarily want to.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Be a girl. I wanted to be a girl, but
I didn't want to tap. I thought the girls were
suckers in this world. They were not allowed to do
this or that, so I didn't want any parts of that.
So I don't think I learned all the niceties and
the antiquette of what women were supposed to do. And
in fact, my mother thought I was so uncouth that
(09:05):
she sent me to modeling school. She said I couldn't walk.
She said, you look like you got off a horse.
She was one of those preacher women. So that was it.
So anyway, we put data in research behind it, but
came back blew everybody's mind that they founded. Tons of
judges and lawyers and teachers, all sorts of people were like, yes,
(09:26):
that character was influential, and I see it as a
marker in my life. That told me that with her
dark skin and her locks, and her attitude and her
free sensuality and sexuality, I could be her.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I guess oftentimes with black characters, we associate so our
community associates so hard with them that sometimes it's hard
for you to transcend the character. Right. It's like you're
always stuck as this person. When you go outside, people
are like Maxine Shaw instead of saying because they just
they're so attached to that. What was that journey like
for you to transcend Maxine Shaw?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think I might be still asking that question. Eric Alexander,
is Maxine Shaw.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
She is me. I am not her. That's the problem.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
It took people time to realize that I am more
myself than she is me. She is the character of
the writer, but the writer didn't know me when she
was writing it. She cast me, and then I come
in not knowing. Yvette Lee Bowser actually didn't even know
that she was that character until maybe four years into it.
I didn't know that she wanted to be a lawyer.
(10:41):
They hire you off the street and then they throw
you in the middle of a cast and I bring
in my Arizona, my hairstyle, my blackness, my point of view,
and I'm definitely a tool in her toolbox as an actor.
I'm saying her words, but I'm saying them is Eric Alexander.
I don't know who Maxinshaw is. I've seen one script
(11:01):
and you know, and I'm memorizing that in pieces. Because
the Kadija characters more thought out that was based more
on Latifa and Kim Coles, who were original to the shows.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Their characters were based on their own personalities.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Everybody else is coming in as themselves, including John Hinton,
TC Carson always dressed fly, you always use his voice
like that he was a singer. They wrote that in
you know, but certainly I'd like to say that it
wasn't me transcending Max. It was the audience realizing that
I was Eric Alexander as Max sine Shaw. And if
(11:36):
you want to know what the difference is, just ask
two different musicians to play the same piece. You know
Miles is playing it when he plays it, and you
know who's playing it if it's Charlie Parker, they have
different sounds, same music, but totally different. And if you
want to know what it would be like for me,
if Regina King was playing, it would be a different thing.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
So I didn't need to transcend myself.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I needed to do other roles so people see that
I was bringing my background and experience to the character.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I love that part of that background experience. It led
you to co founding Color Far Media. How challenging has
it been? You know, like not everybody can start a
production company. It takes a lot of man power, It
takes a lot of agents and lawyers, and a lot
of other things have to happen. What does that fight
look like for you, and how have you been able
(12:26):
to advocate for yourselves in these particular rooms and spaces.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Well, I've grown up in the business, so I know
what it is, and I know what it isn't, and
I know that it doesn't give you permission to do anything.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
You have to decide what you want.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
And like say Sylvester Stallone, who would not take no
for having written Rocky and saying I'm the lead too,
And a lot of people did not want this Italian
with a lisp to be the lead, but he said
that or you don't get the script, and it turned
out to be. He's one of the biggest movie stars
of all time and just happened to an Oscar winning script.
(13:02):
He's phenomenal. You really can, though, George, just start a
production company. You don't need agents and you don't need lawyers.
You just need yourself. So one of my mentors is
the great Joseph Pappa the Public Theater. I did five
plays there off Broadway. He said, Erica, what do you
want to do? And I said, I want to be
a producer. Now this is what before the Cosby Show.
(13:25):
But I just traveled with the Royal Shakespeare Theater around
the world, done the movie in Paris. I'd done series
movie with Woopy Goldberg, all of these things and it
was He says, well, you don't need to go to
school for that. He says, just find something and make
it happen. That's how you produce. You find something and
you make it happen. I do think that it's up
(13:46):
to you. It's you are the person with the golden ticket,
and the creator should also know that there are these
systems that will start to impose their template, and just
learn more about those templates for people who don't know
those things exist, and be ready for what is it
(14:07):
you want and be able to defend it and find
people who will go along with it.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
H M.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And now our career artist Spotlight of the Week. This
week's song is Dripped by seven Deep. Here's a short clip.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
You can listen to the whole song at the end
of the.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
Episode You Drip Don't Live, I won't in a whip
for the bro Blady, Can I have a silver fuck?
Speaker 4 (14:56):
You all over the tip. Watch how you drop to
the brown.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
And now back to my conversation with Erica Alexander.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
What I love about even just this conversation, now just
all of the interviews I've watched about you, is you
you give what people charge for free.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It makes me sound like I'm a hooker on sunset.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I mean sorry, you.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Know when I say that, I say it because I
think about like the master Class series, and I think
about how when I've negotiated some of my more recent
book deals, I always share my numbers with the other
black authors so that they don't get cheated when they
go to get their next book deals. And we always
do it like vice versa, and so smart. Like I'm
(15:45):
just listening to you with these wisdoms of the industry
and these things, and I'm like, this is the stuff
that people charge for, and it's amazing. That is part
of activism when you do this. This is a part
of how we break systems and how we break structures
is when we are willing to just give the dollar
that you wuldn't necessarily look for the thing in return.
Because I'm sitting here just carrying things and I'm like,
(16:05):
when I re listen to this.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
I'm gonna be writing a hoping stuff down.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
What you give, you get to keep. It's that simple
and frankly, in my life, my audience has given me
much more than I could ever give them. If I
can give them a key to understanding something that here too,
for might have been very opaque. The reason why I
want to do is I want to show you. You
must come in here. You must be willing to slay
(16:32):
the dragon in your mind, and in your mind you
think that it's bigger than you, but it's not. It's
a bunch of people in offices doing the best they can,
you know, trying to make a living, often carrying much
too much baggage and burning with them that they've got
to pay for.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You can produce wherever you are.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You just have to know that when you start to
go and ask these big players, they feel like they
have a.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Right to impose. But that's not because you can't be
successful in another place.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I know, when I'm creating anything, I always try to
judge where I'm at or what message I'm trying to
leave when someone walks out of something I'm created. By
using what's called the Hurston walker tests, which essentially is,
if black art takes you to a place of trauma,
then it must also give you the medicine and heal
your wounds.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
How do you feel when you're balancing that line, when.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You're talking about very heavy issues, very hard issues, to
make sure that when people leave, they don't necessarily leave hardened,
maybe being a little triggered, maybe being those things, but
they leave with something that helps them rather than perpetuates
the cycle.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Well, Love, you just pointed out something that is central
to how I think Black people have damaged themselves, as
brilliant as we are.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
If you look at the.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Genre of hip hop, it often never gave the remedy,
you know, and didn't say what It just gave a
lot of like this is out there and you need
to wash out and blah blah this and you know,
but not the remedy. And the ones who were giving
the remedy were the ones. They wouldn't play kras One
and those cats. It wasn't that, it was just a
(18:13):
bunch of, you know, hard hitting stuff. Let's just say
for every Maxine Shaw affect person, there are ten of
those people who are out there thinking that materialism and
non interdependence is the way to go, and that's not
a way that our community can be built up. So
you're right, I think that there needs to be If
(18:33):
you listen to me, I'm hopefully saying this is out there,
this is what you can do alternatively, and please look
at the blueprint other people have put. It's not hiding.
It's in books, it's on podcasts. You have access to it.
Don't set there feeling like a victim or that you
don't have options, because that's just an excuse for you
(18:54):
to stay in your position and act like it's just
too big. But Black people have never ever depended on
the so called mainstream right to support us.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
That's why we are great.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
We are the greatest culture makers in world history, the
thirteen percent African Americans. Because Louis Armstrong the Orphan, wasn't
asking anybody how to play music. He played his music
in his head. That's jazz. He played where he was
in New Orleans. And you ask those people from Haelia
Jackson to you know, country music, to rap, to rock
(19:31):
and roll to you know, everything, every genre of music,
even punk rock, you know, coming out of Detroit, did
any of those people ask for permission or were they
expecting to be played on so called white stations And
that's not but the young people found him, and so
to me, African American music is the true source of
(19:52):
American power. And I say not music meaning our culture, everything,
because everything, because people look at us and they gauged
themselves on how we are treated or what we are
promoting in the world. And so I'm really proud of that.
And I'm also proud that the white and black and
brown children of America, now that's their music.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
They can claim it. It's theirs.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
They grew up with it, it's part of their DNA now.
But not to be forgotten, the African Americans, blood and
bone and sweat that got it, not because anyone supported
him or gave them money.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
It's because we had to.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
It's all we had was access to our own creativities,
one thing they couldn't take from us. And look what
extraordinary things we've done with it.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
You did American fiction. You know, the movie does amazingly well.
And a new generation of people were being introduced to Erica. Alexander,
has that afforded you any like newer opportunities and what
has that experience been like?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I think it's wonderful that if you're able to in
different times in your life for your I'll just say
your fire to catch heat again, it's there, yeah, you know,
And then suddenly I love it and people noticed that,
oh look, you know she's burning brightly. You know, the
smoldering part. That part is the hardest to keep up,
(21:24):
not when it's burning. So I'm really grateful for things
like get Out and American Fiction and Wu Tang and
those types of things, and Core Jefferson and Jordan Peel.
You kind of needed them to come into their power
so they could start to go and cast some of
their life heroes and people they admired. I think I
(21:46):
was admired by a lot of people, and I've been
put up by a lot of really amazing cast directors
white and black, who really went in there for me.
But it was at the time where because I was
dark and nappy headed, it wasn't gonna move. They weren't
hiring anybody like us. And it's still like that to
some level, so I had to wait for a lot
(22:06):
of things to change. I think that there's a thing
that I call black inertia, because we know who's been
doing good work. And yet all that time I could
have been hired solely by black productions and I wasn't.
And these are people who know what I'm capable of.
So even though these black directors came, it's like they
(22:27):
were of a certain caliber. And maybe it was people
not thinking they could approach me and put me in
certain things.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Maybe that's good. I don't want to be in something
that is not up to standard. And that's not me
being snotty. That's just what it is. I worked really
hard to come in and do the work at whatever level.
But all I know is now Alicia Harris in her
movie is God is These amazing writers have now taken
the stage. And before then they could not get in
(22:54):
because there were a ton of people being let in
that were not that good out be honest, they weren't,
but they were popular because they wrote what type of
black pathology people wanted to see. And so I was
outside of that. And so I'm looking at again black writers.
Great Tony Morris and you know who. By the way,
(23:16):
they didn't want to give her an award, and then
she got the Nobel Prize.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I mean that's amazing, right.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
And there's Octavia Butler and Samuel Delaney who's a.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Gay activist and writer.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And you have the greatness of Smoking Robinson, Stevie and
Prince and Quincy and Marvin and Mama Thorpe. We've been
writing our asses off, stunning poetry and again lyrics that
are Doci now is a great writer.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You know, check her out.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
So I needed them to matriculate through life and then
say who can pull this off? And when they did,
Erica Erica, and they invited me. They gave me the
honor to say, I know what you can do. I
can see it. I'm not going to make you go
through this gauntlet, you know, which I appreciate because sometime
I'm like, man, I know I can do it.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
I should audition you. Can you do it? Can you
direct this?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
But there's a lot of black inertia and that's not
just what black people us. Everywhere, the people that know
you the most ask you to do the least and
then say where are you And I'm like, no, where
are you?
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I'm here, moldering, keeping my fire going, learning new skill sets,
producing writing, you know, doing everything I can to stay
afloat and be relevant and also not to lose heart
and be heartbroken.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
That's not what I'm here for.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I'm here to be an artist, and I've already decided
that most of that can be you know, a really
you know, lonely.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Thankless job. But what I'm not going.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
To do is say that we are not responsible for
finding ways to give work to people we think deserve it.
When doctor dre and Jimmy Ivean gave eighty nine million
dollars to us, I did not hear the kind of
outcry that should have happened.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
That was absolutely absurd.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I'm sorry, you've made your living from black and brown
people who gave their dollars when you were selling.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
It out of your trunk.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
When are you going to go and give that back
to HBCUs and community colleges and schools for nursing for
women and all these people who stood up and made
sure that you.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Had a support.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Why did USC would Lucas and Spielberg need your money?
I'm sorry, I can say it. You know, ain't no
blowback for me because it's the truth. But why aren't
we having those conversations? Because we hold these people in
such high regard that people say, well, we're always trying
to pull people down. No, we're trying to reset it
for other people to know that it matters. If you
(25:49):
build on the backs of people and they sacrificed, then
damn it, come back and build them.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Do the right thing.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
And now back to my conversation with Erica, Alexander, do
you have a favorite Octavia about their book Kindred. I
tried to option that when I was seventeen, and I'm
sorry I ever made it, not because somebody at my
agency told somebody else and had someone with more money
(26:35):
come in and get it, and I never got a chance.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
And then I got a call that somebody said, oh,
you know, you have really good taste of material, because
I think now someone else is interested, and oh, we'll
get back to you and Erica and suddenly he was like,
oh no, it's gone now, and I'm like, and that's
the last time I saw it. I did audition for
different versions of it. You know, it wasn't the first
time that it's been trying to be done all these years,
and I didn't get it. But I was told by
(27:00):
the producer later on, you know, Erica, you did the
best audition, but they wouldn't let us hire you. And
I've been told that a lot, a lot they would
not let us hire you.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Anytime I get that type of feedback, I'm always like
rejection ass protection, rejection as protection like because it probably
was some other it was probably something I had no
business being a part of them.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Perhaps they didn't go.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I mean, you know, I aged out of the role too,
But it does hurt, and it's real. Whether it's you know,
protection or not, it was to me are lost opportunities.
And it's also you know racism, you know, colorism that
if I'm not light enough, I'm not going to get it.
And I can tell you roll after role where people
just said, Eric, we had to hire somebody lighter, and
they just straight up said it.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And what you need to do is not lose heart.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
It's very hard not to get jaded and frustrated or
or be frustrated at your fellow actresses for something that
they didn't create. You know, we're all living in this space,
but we perpetuated and it's a real thing. And to me,
the only thing that can destroy that system is a
different system that we hold people accountable and say, you
know what, the idea of a woman to be desired
(28:12):
will not always look like that other person's going to
be somebody who's bottom heavy or somebody who's, you know,
got thick arms and what how amazing wouldn't it be
great to see, you know, our big lead actors being
placed with and vice versa, with unique love interests. I think,
as we're in a different world though, there's a lot
of changes happening these everything that we think is we
(28:35):
were not able to do, it's being done, but it's
not being done in the necessarily America, so that I'm
happy for the changes wherever they are.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I remember I was living in Washington, DC in twenty sixteen,
and in the local news it was about a three
to four week span they kept talking about a girl
went missing, that another girl went missing, another girl, that
another girl, another girl, and it got up to fourteen
and it still had not made national news. And at
the time I was a journalist still and was working
(29:12):
as a freelancer for the Grio, and was like, can
I write this article about this? Was nobody nationally is
talking about how these fourteen black girls in DC are
just gone? And wrote an article about it, and the
article goes viral because people really didn't know, but between
public outcry us writing articles about it, just like us
as a small community doing that work, it forced investigations
(29:34):
to have to happen. And so, you know, it just
made me think about this Finding Timika podcast about a
missing black woman and the epidemic of missing black women,
because I always say copaganda movies makes us think that
taken is how sex trafficking works when it's right here
in the United States. But what drew you to wanting
(29:57):
to highlight this particular epidemic in the country because we
all know and white girls go missing, the National Guards
called them black girl go missing, it's just another day.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Especially when it's a white, middle class girl with blue
eyes and blonde hair.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That really is sort of the recipe.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
There are a lot of women no matter what color,
that go missing that no one looks for. But black
and indigenous women no one is looking for, and that's
why they make them so vulnerable. So you talked about copaganda.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I love that. I love that. I think it's about value.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
And why did I come to this because finding to
meek it first of all, I was invited and one
of my mentors is Great Chiela Jackson Lee passed away recently,
she used to say, Erica, go where you're invited.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And that's why I was talking about.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I said, you know, people invite you to do work,
you go there and sometimes do your best work because
they already know what you're capable of.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
They're giving you an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And her auntie, Rebecca Howard, is not only a lawyer,
she was also pr specialist, and she could not get
anybody to look for her niece in Spartanburg, South Carolina,
when she asked the national press specifically to profile it,
but Gabby Patito and all these other place women were
getting profiled all the time, and she's After a while,
(31:16):
she wrote a letter said why won't you look for her?
Speaker 3 (31:19):
What makes my niece different?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
No, implying that anybody could read through lines was because
she's black. And one of the editors, white men, finally
thought what is that? And they did a story on
like why do we look more for white women? But
that led to Tiffany Cross, who was at America's most
wanted who was a young producer, to eventually ask her
bosses if she could do it, and they trusted her
(31:45):
and said sure, go with it, and that got national attention,
which led to a breakthrough and clues which led through
eventually the police finding their man. The problem is that
it took all of that for that to happen. And
why not you talk about the white male avenger like taken.
We believe that this father is in whatever I will
(32:08):
find you.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I mean, she's coming for us.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Or Olivia Benson is going to show up at some
point that the copaganda, Olivia Benson is going to kick
down that door right at the.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Moment and come and come get us from it, from
law and order. And that's not a at all. And
in fact, I think that the worst thing that's happened
to America is the propaganda that we have these agencies,
and they are so fulfilling at all. I think the
FBI and the CIA and all these places need to
be overhauled for competence.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
They say they don't need DEEI.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
But if you're excluding black and brown people from looking
for them properly, then that's why you counted out.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
People look for who they know.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
So of course, if these places are run by white men,
they're going to look for their white daughters and their
white wives and people that look like them.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
And if they see a black girl.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
They might think, oh, well she's no, she's a burnout,
she might be a drug addict. She deserves, they deserve
to be looked for just as much, if not more,
because we are so vulnerable when we go missing. There
should be a whole agency alone that just does missing people.
This should not be a sing in America that people
should go missing like this and no one knows, and
not into trafficking, but being sent out to other countries
(33:14):
and also for harvesting organs.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
That's real, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And we are allowing that, We're allowing the LGBTQ community
to be set upon and killed and targeted and hunted
and haunted by these things.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
I say no.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
So finding Tamika was my part in sort of saying,
this woman is inviting me to have a larger conversation
about something that's systemic, something that's linked to what when
I feel the Great journalist is called missing White Women's syndrome.
I didn't think it could be done, but then Charlemagne
the God called me and said.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yo, Queen, we got a new deal.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Me and Kevin Hart, we want to make yours the
first what's that thing you pitched about the missing young
black woman? He's from South Carolina. So remember people look
really Grandma, yeah, there you go wow. And I for
a while my mother lived in Greenville, South Carolina, and
my sister's still there, so they gave us a shot.
I always say people in rooms where we're not typically
(34:11):
they're black men, need to speak up for people who
aren't there and give them the shot.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Give them, you know, say we're going to bring these
people in.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
You got athletes and they're having cigars and drinks with
these very powerful white men who have money and access,
and they want to do business with them because these
are their heroes and including musical artists. And then they
don't bring in our names.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
We need that.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
People who are not in those positions need that, and
they gave us that. So give them all the props.
And why do we do it? Because it seemed like
the right thing at the time. I'll be honest, I
thought there's no way anybody's going to support this.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I just thought this is dead on arrival. But I'm
not going to say no.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
I got to try, and it wasn't and it got
through in the type of way that we need to
do it.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I had a whole.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Team, and then that team dropped out was women, I'll
be honest with you, and they said I was going
to hurt Tamika because I wanted to do a neo
noir ghost story. I said, it's got to be entertaining. Man,
we got to entertain people. And they were like, well,
we don't want you hurting to Amika. I was like,
I've never And when they dropped out, then there was
another young person, Jasmine Green, and she said, I'm going
(35:16):
to do this. My cousin went missing and we're going
to do it. And we got together and wrote that
thing in three hundred pages and two months, got it done, hosting,
and did it. But it was frankly, I believe Tamika
steering that. And in fact, when twenty twenty did the
recap of it recently, I told twenty twenty I said,
Tamika said it was going to be national. She promised
(35:38):
people she was going to be a star nationally. And
I said, you don't know that. That spirit is very big,
this ghost story. And so I feel like she came
and got me, and I answered yes, but I'm also
answering yes to what I said.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
My mission was on Earth before I got here.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
Wow, Wow, that was powerful.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I know for a fact what I am tired of
this week is people trying to pretend that these Nazis
are not not I like, it's right in our face,
and the mainstream media will literally put aheadline like seems
to have done a hand gesture that might have been
(36:35):
can you imagine something Hitler?
Speaker 5 (36:37):
It's like, no, he did the exact like.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I am sick and tired of I guess them trying
to like tell us what we're not watching. I need
mainstream media to stop normalizing this and just calling it
exactly what it is.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Is there anything that you are tired of this week?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Wow, I'm tired of so much this week. I guess
I'm tired of black people's warnings being ignored and everybody
playing the price. I wish people would go to their
demographic and do their work, because we will not be
able to save this country on the moral high ground.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
And we vote for the village for the most part.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
But if a constituency is bent on self sabotaging themselves
for whatever reason, fear, whatever, then I'm tired of that.
I'm tired of that because I see how sad black
people are. We're actually going against our own characteristic to
speak out because people are.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Like, no, this has to happen.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I'm going to rest and take care of myself and
let them work for it. Let them see what's at
the end of their fork. And I'm not blaming everybody,
but if that's your group, you got to bring them
into the community. You have to do the work, you
have to make the sacrifice. And if we all went down,
we live in the same country. So if it's not
(38:02):
going to work out, it's not. But I am tired
of that because I think I just see the sadness.
Maybe I feel it. I feel sad, and I would
really like us to move forward and start to work
on really big problems like climate change. We need men,
white men of all ages to get to work and
(38:24):
get a hold of what's going on. It's nothing that
we can do. We don't have the power, and this
world is changing. Not to be afraid of it and
embrace what's happening. So I'm tired of that. I'm also
I have to say, I'm not tired of I just
want to make sure that Dochie gets her props. I'm
tired of people y'all need to pay more.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Dochi.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
I love Doci. Doci is a great and I don't
know if they hate on us. She's fabulous, dark and fabulous,
you know, yeah, extraordinary talent. I'm grateful for other people
out there doing the work. I'm so happy that people
haven't given up and that they're biding their time and
marching in place.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Sometime you can march in place.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
Oh. I love that. Sometimes you can march and mind you.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I was going to ask for a quote from you
to end on, but sometimes you can march in place.
I think it sums it up. That's perfect. I want
to thank you for being here today.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
The work put in also pen and ink, because I
do believe that that lives way beyond flesh and bone. Everyone,
Erika Alexander, thank you, love, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Every story I write adds to me, a little changes me,
a little forces me to re examine an attitude or belief,
causes me to research and learn, helps me to understand
people and grow.
Speaker 5 (39:51):
That quote is from Oktavia Butler.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
She wrote primarily science fiction, but if you haven't read her,
this is not like Star Wars. Her works were prescient
and concerned with social conditions and the black experience. This
is sci fi that's human. It's not cold and mechanical.
It's soulful, sensual, heartfelt, and sometimes brutal, but most importantly,
(40:15):
at its core, it's the truth. The novel Kindred, which
Erica mentioned, is about a black woman in the nineteen
seventies who is transported back into the South during slavery.
A true nightmare from a visionary writer. And now in full,
this is dripped by seven Deep. Thanks for listening to
(40:38):
fighting words, and we hope you'll join us for another
round next week.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Why y'all, don't make the.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
Tail, don't slift and I won't in nowhere you fill
a breath. Baky can have her self. Fuck you dripping
all over the tip watching how you drop to the
brown got a nigga fingt. I wanna eat it right now,
come a little closer, bake and move the thing around.
You better move the shit around, bay playing. You gonna
fill it in your kneega swine joys. Do it to
(41:24):
the beer, then we gonna move it to the sheets.
But you ain't going to.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Sleep, uh uh.
Speaker 6 (41:48):
Ben wait and on the sunshine and they think you
need that bad?
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Not do it like that? Don't whe else gonna hit
it like that, damn.
Speaker 6 (41:57):
Bunt the back.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
They get a make it clap. I'm'a a pair of
baby reading like my mother.
Speaker 6 (42:02):
Niggas challenge baby, that's bad, Joe Ship, take it in
the truck like please, we're gonna fill it in young
leadline noise. Do it to the then we're gonna move
into the sheets, but you ain't going to sleep.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
Please, we're gonna fill it in young lead loine nooys.
Speaker 6 (42:25):
Do it to the Then we're gonna move into the sheets,
but you ain't going to sleep. Ain't going to sleep
at least Dan give me the horns like that. Ah yeah, a.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Oh one more time?
Speaker 6 (43:10):
Bring ahead, now bring it back? Uh uh not bring
it back back? Please, you're gonna full it in your
knees one joy. Do it to the bead. Then we're
gonna move it to the sheets, but you ain't going
to sleep.
Speaker 5 (43:28):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
How won't we get your h not bringing it back?
Speaker 6 (43:39):
Now?
Speaker 4 (43:46):
Rush time with it in the short cause you usually
went off my tail.
Speaker 6 (43:51):
We'll be rich if I post this clip your alien
sup stuff pickle, you wanna fuck me right now? You
know that I'm gonna put it down if I'm dry
and we're gonna do it to this sound.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Jere Jere. I'm gonna make it yere jere chere. Mmmm,
jure jef Jef, I wonna make it jere chere.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Fighting Words is production of iHeart Podcasts in partnership with
Beth's Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This episode was produced
by Charlotte Morley. Second producers are myself and Tweaky p
g Guar Song with Adam Pinkins and.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
Brick CAATs for Best Case Studios.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
The theme song was written and composed by Colebos, ban
Bianna and myself. Original music by Colebos. This episode was
edited and scored by Max Michael Miller. Our I Heart
team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel. Following Rape, Fighting Words,
Wherever you get your Podcast
We're not allowed to lay in the cut and be
Meryl Street out of Africa and set there longingly and
have the camera look at us, you know, as the
object of desire.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
That's Erica Alexander. You might have seen her in movies
like get Out or American Fiction.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
That's why you see, you know, so many black actresses.
They've given it because they got to.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
They've got about two seconds and maybe three scenes if that.
They've got to very quickly command that and earn their
keep there.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
And sometimes that can.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Be an over sort of statement of what blackness is like.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
That's when you get.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
The girl I'm talking about, then, you know, because we're
over doing it.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Erica knows what it's like to be a black actress
in Hollywood and not be afforded the same privileges and
roles as white actresses. That's part of why she decided
to start her own production company in twenty seventeen. It's
called Color Farm Media, and she describes it as the
motown of film, television and tech.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
We want to rebrand blackness because imagine how long blackness
has been going through a filter of white males.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Yes, and then what you get is sort of.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Maybe a Frankenstein monster of what black people are supposed
to be.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Erica is so many things, but to me, she will
always remain at heart Maxine Shaw, the unapologetic lawyer from
the TV show Living Single, like singing in the heavy
handy with the world, take a sip of branded and
(01:36):
he spoke your guy, you know what the plan is?
Speaker 4 (01:38):
Or became a Latin.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
You know one doesn't understand me.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
I'm Georgiam Johnson and this is Fighting Words, a show
about using your words to fight back and make change.
Speaker 5 (01:50):
Let's get into it with Erica Alexander.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
I am here today with I'm trying not the fangirl,
because everyone who knows me knows my favorite show in
the world is Living Single. I watch it on TV
one every morning from six to eight, then on Dabble
from eight to nine. I watch the marathons, I go
to sleep Boy, Hulu, all of it. But I am
here today with the iconic Erica Alexander. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Thank you, George.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
I appreciate the invitation and I'm so sorry you were addicted.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
That's not my fault.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
Well, you know, your whole generations, luckily, because of syndication,
has had many different lives. So I appreciate it because
it helps pay the utilities. But you know, your addiction
is my come up.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
So there you go, exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I always feel like the higher you get, the more
public you become, the less human you become. And so
I always like people to introduce themselves. And so, who
is Erica Alexander.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Well, Eric Alexander is fifty five year old woman. I've
been an actress for forty years. Most people know me
from Living Single or The Cosby Show, but I've done
a ton of work in those forty years. And so
I see myself as an actress, a producer, a director.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
And an activist.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And I'm really proud of being the daughter of Sammy
Alexander and Robert Alexander, two orphans from the Southwest. I
have six brothers and sisters and they're all alive. My
father is not, but everyone else is. I also have
many godchildren, no children of my own, but everybody seems
to want to give me theirs, damn it. And I'm
(03:38):
really proud to this far into my career be of
sound mind. Yes, so far, i think I'm in my
right mind. I think I'm getting ready to not be
after the inauguration, but right now I'm in my right mind,
So there you go.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Yeah, same boat.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
I was fighting all through the last administration anyway, because
I'm an active as well, whether it's HIV work, whether it
was the book bands, which I'm at the top of
the list pretty much for the bands, I say thank
you my fight. My fight doesn't stop. It's just that
my plans have to change because I'm fighting something a
little bit different now, and so it's like the fight continues,
(04:19):
but now I got to change something. Is it different?
Is the fight different or is it just changed clothes?
I think the for me, the fight never stopped. Like
when administration has changed, My fight doesn't stop. I just
think my plans on how I have to fight sometimes
looks different because, as you're exactly right, it changes closed.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
But that's them.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Struggles are still there, like that you just struggled that
wouldn't have changed one way or another. There were certain
struggles that were not going to erase exactly no matter
who got elected. And so I'm glad to say it
that way because the plans change a little bit, but
the fight has to always be there.
Speaker 5 (04:55):
Yeah, as well as rest and joy, Yes.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
I know that's right. Recovery. It's important.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
You've had a very unique career, as you state that
you've been doing this for nearly forty years. But as
a kid, was this something you always knew you wanted
to do?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
No.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was discovered when I was fourteen, and so I
wanted to be a scientist, and I had no idea
that acting would be my career. I just happened to
go to an audition when a merchant Ivory film came
to Philadelphia and they needed little brown and black girls
to audition. And I was in a six week program
and this was the fifth week of it at New
Freedom Theater in Philadelphia, and so they encouraged us all
(05:34):
to audition. Little did I know that in the Tri
State area, everyone would show up to that audition, including me.
When the dust cleared and the lead role that they
were looking for turned out to be me. I didn't
know then that that was going to give me not
only my SAG card, but also create a path that
(05:56):
I had not planned on.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
So No, I had no idea i'd be an actor.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Wow, that's amazing, because you do it so well.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Thank you, Thank you, you know say I say sometimes
you know we wonder about you know, fate, and my mother,
I should say, is a very huge part of that,
because I think a mother pays attention to their children uniquely.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And she saw me perform in.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Fourth grade a play where it was Groundhog's Day and
I played a lawyer who was arguing against it being
on the calendar. I didn't know later on i'd be
living single. But what she noticed is that she said, oh,
I think you like acting. You should go to this
school of this performing art school. That was fourth grade.
So I think she was just trying to provide an
outlet for her children. She was always bartering two orphans.
(06:42):
They are not rich, so she was always trying to
figure out culture, ways in culture that she could provide
us that she thought would enrich our lives. I think
she saw it as armor that she may not be
there to protect us. She knew that we were uniquely
bound in this world and burdened with not only blackness,
(07:02):
but being female or being seen as being less.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Than because you have less.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
So she thought speaking full sentences read a lot, make
sure you can write and decent grammar, and then also
make sure her children had culture in their lives.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
So that's what she did.
Speaker 5 (07:20):
That's awesome. And you know, like speaking on living single,
I think what.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I am most excited about is what you talked about recently,
the Maxine Shaw effect. Yes, so could you just talk
about the Maxine Shaw effects.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
The Maxine Shaw effect is a phenomenon that now we
have placed real data behind.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
We did a research project that this.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Extraordinaryly huge amount of women, especially black women, went into
law in executive position in politics because they were inspired
to aspire to leadership. ISSI by maxin Shaw and Maxingshaw
famously was this lawyer who is very you know, powerful
(08:07):
and vary into her self power independence. She was freed
from religiosity, which was unusual in the early nineties because
so many, especially black women, did a lot of things
because of patriarchy's filter to say, you know, what they
could do, or if you did something, you have to
go and apologize and make sure the person.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Max was not that at all.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
She was a Vettley Bowser's creation, and Vettlee Bowser had
wanted to be a lawyer. And then she cast Eric
Alexander who came from the mountains of Arizona and grew
up as a tomboy.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
And I did not necessarily want to.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
Be a girl. I wanted to be a girl, but
I didn't want to tap. I thought the girls were
suckers in this world. They were not allowed to do
this or that, so I didn't want any parts of that.
So I don't think I learned all the niceties and
the antiquette of what women were supposed to do. And
in fact, my mother thought I was so uncouth that
(09:05):
she sent me to modeling school. She said I couldn't walk.
She said, you look like you got off a horse.
She was one of those preacher women. So that was it.
So anyway, we put data in research behind it, but
came back blew everybody's mind that they founded. Tons of
judges and lawyers and teachers, all sorts of people were like, yes,
(09:26):
that character was influential, and I see it as a
marker in my life. That told me that with her
dark skin and her locks, and her attitude and her
free sensuality and sexuality, I could be her.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I guess oftentimes with black characters, we associate so our
community associates so hard with them that sometimes it's hard
for you to transcend the character. Right. It's like you're
always stuck as this person. When you go outside, people
are like Maxine Shaw instead of saying because they just
they're so attached to that. What was that journey like
for you to transcend Maxine Shaw?
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I think I might be still asking that question. Eric Alexander,
is Maxine Shaw.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
She is me. I am not her. That's the problem.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
It took people time to realize that I am more
myself than she is me. She is the character of
the writer, but the writer didn't know me when she
was writing it. She cast me, and then I come
in not knowing. Yvette Lee Bowser actually didn't even know
that she was that character until maybe four years into it.
I didn't know that she wanted to be a lawyer.
(10:41):
They hire you off the street and then they throw
you in the middle of a cast and I bring
in my Arizona, my hairstyle, my blackness, my point of view,
and I'm definitely a tool in her toolbox as an actor.
I'm saying her words, but I'm saying them is Eric Alexander.
I don't know who Maxinshaw is. I've seen one script
(11:01):
and you know, and I'm memorizing that in pieces. Because
the Kadija characters more thought out that was based more
on Latifa and Kim Coles, who were original to the shows.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Their characters were based on their own personalities.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Everybody else is coming in as themselves, including John Hinton,
TC Carson always dressed fly, you always use his voice
like that he was a singer. They wrote that in
you know, but certainly I'd like to say that it
wasn't me transcending Max. It was the audience realizing that
I was Eric Alexander as Max sine Shaw. And if
(11:36):
you want to know what the difference is, just ask
two different musicians to play the same piece. You know
Miles is playing it when he plays it, and you
know who's playing it if it's Charlie Parker, they have
different sounds, same music, but totally different. And if you
want to know what it would be like for me,
if Regina King was playing, it would be a different thing.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
So I didn't need to transcend myself.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
I needed to do other roles so people see that
I was bringing my background and experience to the character.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
I love that part of that background experience. It led
you to co founding Color Far Media. How challenging has
it been? You know, like not everybody can start a
production company. It takes a lot of man power, It
takes a lot of agents and lawyers, and a lot
of other things have to happen. What does that fight
look like for you, and how have you been able
(12:26):
to advocate for yourselves in these particular rooms and spaces.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Well, I've grown up in the business, so I know
what it is, and I know what it isn't, and
I know that it doesn't give you permission to do anything.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
You have to decide what you want.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
And like say Sylvester Stallone, who would not take no
for having written Rocky and saying I'm the lead too,
And a lot of people did not want this Italian
with a lisp to be the lead, but he said
that or you don't get the script, and it turned
out to be. He's one of the biggest movie stars
of all time and just happened to an Oscar winning script.
(13:02):
He's phenomenal. You really can, though, George, just start a
production company. You don't need agents and you don't need lawyers.
You just need yourself. So one of my mentors is
the great Joseph Pappa the Public Theater. I did five
plays there off Broadway. He said, Erica, what do you
want to do? And I said, I want to be
a producer. Now this is what before the Cosby Show.
(13:25):
But I just traveled with the Royal Shakespeare Theater around
the world, done the movie in Paris. I'd done series
movie with Woopy Goldberg, all of these things and it
was He says, well, you don't need to go to
school for that. He says, just find something and make
it happen. That's how you produce. You find something and
you make it happen. I do think that it's up
(13:46):
to you. It's you are the person with the golden ticket,
and the creator should also know that there are these
systems that will start to impose their template, and just
learn more about those templates for people who don't know
those things exist, and be ready for what is it
(14:07):
you want and be able to defend it and find
people who will go along with it.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
H M.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
And now our career artist Spotlight of the Week. This
week's song is Dripped by seven Deep. Here's a short clip.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
You can listen to the whole song at the end
of the.
Speaker 6 (14:43):
Episode You Drip Don't Live, I won't in a whip
for the bro Blady, Can I have a silver fuck?
Speaker 4 (14:56):
You all over the tip. Watch how you drop to
the brown.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
And now back to my conversation with Erica Alexander.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
What I love about even just this conversation, now just
all of the interviews I've watched about you, is you
you give what people charge for free.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
It makes me sound like I'm a hooker on sunset.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I mean sorry, you.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
Know when I say that, I say it because I
think about like the master Class series, and I think
about how when I've negotiated some of my more recent
book deals, I always share my numbers with the other
black authors so that they don't get cheated when they
go to get their next book deals. And we always
do it like vice versa, and so smart. Like I'm
(15:45):
just listening to you with these wisdoms of the industry
and these things, and I'm like, this is the stuff
that people charge for, and it's amazing. That is part
of activism when you do this. This is a part
of how we break systems and how we break structures
is when we are willing to just give the dollar
that you wuldn't necessarily look for the thing in return.
Because I'm sitting here just carrying things and I'm like,
(16:05):
when I re listen to this.
Speaker 5 (16:06):
I'm gonna be writing a hoping stuff down.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
What you give, you get to keep. It's that simple
and frankly, in my life, my audience has given me
much more than I could ever give them. If I
can give them a key to understanding something that here too,
for might have been very opaque. The reason why I
want to do is I want to show you. You
must come in here. You must be willing to slay
(16:32):
the dragon in your mind, and in your mind you
think that it's bigger than you, but it's not. It's
a bunch of people in offices doing the best they can,
you know, trying to make a living, often carrying much
too much baggage and burning with them that they've got
to pay for.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
You can produce wherever you are.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
You just have to know that when you start to
go and ask these big players, they feel like they
have a.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Right to impose. But that's not because you can't be
successful in another place.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I know, when I'm creating anything, I always try to
judge where I'm at or what message I'm trying to
leave when someone walks out of something I'm created. By
using what's called the Hurston walker tests, which essentially is,
if black art takes you to a place of trauma,
then it must also give you the medicine and heal
your wounds.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
How do you feel when you're balancing that line, when.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
You're talking about very heavy issues, very hard issues, to
make sure that when people leave, they don't necessarily leave hardened,
maybe being a little triggered, maybe being those things, but
they leave with something that helps them rather than perpetuates
the cycle.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Well, Love, you just pointed out something that is central
to how I think Black people have damaged themselves, as
brilliant as we are.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
If you look at the.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Genre of hip hop, it often never gave the remedy,
you know, and didn't say what It just gave a
lot of like this is out there and you need
to wash out and blah blah this and you know,
but not the remedy. And the ones who were giving
the remedy were the ones. They wouldn't play kras One
and those cats. It wasn't that, it was just a
(18:13):
bunch of, you know, hard hitting stuff. Let's just say
for every Maxine Shaw affect person, there are ten of
those people who are out there thinking that materialism and
non interdependence is the way to go, and that's not
a way that our community can be built up. So
you're right, I think that there needs to be If
(18:33):
you listen to me, I'm hopefully saying this is out there,
this is what you can do alternatively, and please look
at the blueprint other people have put. It's not hiding.
It's in books, it's on podcasts. You have access to it.
Don't set there feeling like a victim or that you
don't have options, because that's just an excuse for you
(18:54):
to stay in your position and act like it's just
too big. But Black people have never ever depended on
the so called mainstream right to support us.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
That's why we are great.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
We are the greatest culture makers in world history, the
thirteen percent African Americans. Because Louis Armstrong the Orphan, wasn't
asking anybody how to play music. He played his music
in his head. That's jazz. He played where he was
in New Orleans. And you ask those people from Haelia
Jackson to you know, country music, to rap, to rock
(19:31):
and roll to you know, everything, every genre of music,
even punk rock, you know, coming out of Detroit, did
any of those people ask for permission or were they
expecting to be played on so called white stations And
that's not but the young people found him, and so
to me, African American music is the true source of
(19:52):
American power. And I say not music meaning our culture, everything,
because everything, because people look at us and they gauged
themselves on how we are treated or what we are
promoting in the world. And so I'm really proud of that.
And I'm also proud that the white and black and
brown children of America, now that's their music.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
They can claim it. It's theirs.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
They grew up with it, it's part of their DNA now.
But not to be forgotten, the African Americans, blood and
bone and sweat that got it, not because anyone supported
him or gave them money.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
It's because we had to.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
It's all we had was access to our own creativities,
one thing they couldn't take from us. And look what
extraordinary things we've done with it.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
You did American fiction. You know, the movie does amazingly well.
And a new generation of people were being introduced to Erica. Alexander,
has that afforded you any like newer opportunities and what
has that experience been like?
Speaker 1 (21:01):
I think it's wonderful that if you're able to in
different times in your life for your I'll just say
your fire to catch heat again, it's there, yeah, you know,
And then suddenly I love it and people noticed that,
oh look, you know she's burning brightly. You know, the
smoldering part. That part is the hardest to keep up,
(21:24):
not when it's burning. So I'm really grateful for things
like get Out and American Fiction and Wu Tang and
those types of things, and Core Jefferson and Jordan Peel.
You kind of needed them to come into their power
so they could start to go and cast some of
their life heroes and people they admired. I think I
(21:46):
was admired by a lot of people, and I've been
put up by a lot of really amazing cast directors
white and black, who really went in there for me.
But it was at the time where because I was
dark and nappy headed, it wasn't gonna move. They weren't
hiring anybody like us. And it's still like that to
some level, so I had to wait for a lot
(22:06):
of things to change. I think that there's a thing
that I call black inertia, because we know who's been
doing good work. And yet all that time I could
have been hired solely by black productions and I wasn't.
And these are people who know what I'm capable of.
So even though these black directors came, it's like they
(22:27):
were of a certain caliber. And maybe it was people
not thinking they could approach me and put me in
certain things.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Maybe that's good. I don't want to be in something
that is not up to standard. And that's not me
being snotty. That's just what it is. I worked really
hard to come in and do the work at whatever level.
But all I know is now Alicia Harris in her
movie is God is These amazing writers have now taken
the stage. And before then they could not get in
(22:54):
because there were a ton of people being let in
that were not that good out be honest, they weren't,
but they were popular because they wrote what type of
black pathology people wanted to see. And so I was
outside of that. And so I'm looking at again black writers.
Great Tony Morris and you know who. By the way,
(23:16):
they didn't want to give her an award, and then
she got the Nobel Prize.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
I mean that's amazing, right.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
And there's Octavia Butler and Samuel Delaney who's a.
Speaker 3 (23:27):
Gay activist and writer.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
And you have the greatness of Smoking Robinson, Stevie and
Prince and Quincy and Marvin and Mama Thorpe. We've been
writing our asses off, stunning poetry and again lyrics that
are Doci now is a great writer.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
You know, check her out.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
So I needed them to matriculate through life and then
say who can pull this off? And when they did,
Erica Erica, and they invited me. They gave me the
honor to say, I know what you can do. I
can see it. I'm not going to make you go
through this gauntlet, you know, which I appreciate because sometime
I'm like, man, I know I can do it.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
I should audition you. Can you do it? Can you
direct this?
Speaker 1 (24:08):
But there's a lot of black inertia and that's not
just what black people us. Everywhere, the people that know
you the most ask you to do the least and
then say where are you And I'm like, no, where
are you?
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I'm here, moldering, keeping my fire going, learning new skill sets,
producing writing, you know, doing everything I can to stay
afloat and be relevant and also not to lose heart
and be heartbroken.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
That's not what I'm here for.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
I'm here to be an artist, and I've already decided
that most of that can be you know, a really
you know, lonely.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
Thankless job. But what I'm not going.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
To do is say that we are not responsible for
finding ways to give work to people we think deserve it.
When doctor dre and Jimmy Ivean gave eighty nine million
dollars to us, I did not hear the kind of
outcry that should have happened.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
That was absolutely absurd.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I'm sorry, you've made your living from black and brown
people who gave their dollars when you were selling.
Speaker 3 (25:15):
It out of your trunk.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
When are you going to go and give that back
to HBCUs and community colleges and schools for nursing for
women and all these people who stood up and made
sure that you.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Had a support.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Why did USC would Lucas and Spielberg need your money?
I'm sorry, I can say it. You know, ain't no
blowback for me because it's the truth. But why aren't
we having those conversations? Because we hold these people in
such high regard that people say, well, we're always trying
to pull people down. No, we're trying to reset it
for other people to know that it matters. If you
(25:49):
build on the backs of people and they sacrificed, then
damn it, come back and build them.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
Do the right thing.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
And now back to my conversation with Erica, Alexander, do
you have a favorite Octavia about their book Kindred. I
tried to option that when I was seventeen, and I'm
sorry I ever made it, not because somebody at my
agency told somebody else and had someone with more money
(26:35):
come in and get it, and I never got a chance.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
And then I got a call that somebody said, oh,
you know, you have really good taste of material, because
I think now someone else is interested, and oh, we'll
get back to you and Erica and suddenly he was like,
oh no, it's gone now, and I'm like, and that's
the last time I saw it. I did audition for
different versions of it. You know, it wasn't the first
time that it's been trying to be done all these years,
and I didn't get it. But I was told by
(27:00):
the producer later on, you know, Erica, you did the
best audition, but they wouldn't let us hire you. And
I've been told that a lot, a lot they would
not let us hire you.
Speaker 5 (27:10):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
Yeah, Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Anytime I get that type of feedback, I'm always like
rejection ass protection, rejection as protection like because it probably
was some other it was probably something I had no
business being a part of them.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
Perhaps they didn't go.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
I mean, you know, I aged out of the role too,
But it does hurt, and it's real. Whether it's you know,
protection or not, it was to me are lost opportunities.
And it's also you know racism, you know, colorism that
if I'm not light enough, I'm not going to get it.
And I can tell you roll after role where people
just said, Eric, we had to hire somebody lighter, and
they just straight up said it.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
And what you need to do is not lose heart.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
It's very hard not to get jaded and frustrated or
or be frustrated at your fellow actresses for something that
they didn't create. You know, we're all living in this space,
but we perpetuated and it's a real thing. And to me,
the only thing that can destroy that system is a
different system that we hold people accountable and say, you
know what, the idea of a woman to be desired
(28:12):
will not always look like that other person's going to
be somebody who's bottom heavy or somebody who's, you know,
got thick arms and what how amazing wouldn't it be
great to see, you know, our big lead actors being
placed with and vice versa, with unique love interests. I think,
as we're in a different world though, there's a lot
of changes happening these everything that we think is we
(28:35):
were not able to do, it's being done, but it's
not being done in the necessarily America, so that I'm
happy for the changes wherever they are.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
I remember I was living in Washington, DC in twenty sixteen,
and in the local news it was about a three
to four week span they kept talking about a girl
went missing, that another girl went missing, another girl, that
another girl, another girl, and it got up to fourteen
and it still had not made national news. And at
the time I was a journalist still and was working
(29:12):
as a freelancer for the Grio, and was like, can
I write this article about this? Was nobody nationally is
talking about how these fourteen black girls in DC are
just gone? And wrote an article about it, and the
article goes viral because people really didn't know, but between
public outcry us writing articles about it, just like us
as a small community doing that work, it forced investigations
(29:34):
to have to happen. And so, you know, it just
made me think about this Finding Timika podcast about a
missing black woman and the epidemic of missing black women,
because I always say copaganda movies makes us think that
taken is how sex trafficking works when it's right here
in the United States. But what drew you to wanting
(29:57):
to highlight this particular epidemic in the country because we
all know and white girls go missing, the National Guards
called them black girl go missing, it's just another day.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Especially when it's a white, middle class girl with blue
eyes and blonde hair.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
That really is sort of the recipe.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
There are a lot of women no matter what color,
that go missing that no one looks for. But black
and indigenous women no one is looking for, and that's
why they make them so vulnerable. So you talked about copaganda.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
I love that. I love that. I think it's about value.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
And why did I come to this because finding to
meek it first of all, I was invited and one
of my mentors is Great Chiela Jackson Lee passed away recently,
she used to say, Erica, go where you're invited.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And that's why I was talking about.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
I said, you know, people invite you to do work,
you go there and sometimes do your best work because
they already know what you're capable of.
Speaker 3 (30:50):
They're giving you an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
And her auntie, Rebecca Howard, is not only a lawyer,
she was also pr specialist, and she could not get
anybody to look for her niece in Spartanburg, South Carolina,
when she asked the national press specifically to profile it,
but Gabby Patito and all these other place women were
getting profiled all the time, and she's After a while,
(31:16):
she wrote a letter said why won't you look for her?
Speaker 3 (31:19):
What makes my niece different?
Speaker 1 (31:23):
No, implying that anybody could read through lines was because
she's black. And one of the editors, white men, finally
thought what is that? And they did a story on
like why do we look more for white women? But
that led to Tiffany Cross, who was at America's most
wanted who was a young producer, to eventually ask her
bosses if she could do it, and they trusted her
(31:45):
and said sure, go with it, and that got national attention,
which led to a breakthrough and clues which led through
eventually the police finding their man. The problem is that
it took all of that for that to happen. And
why not you talk about the white male avenger like taken.
We believe that this father is in whatever I will
(32:08):
find you.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
I mean, she's coming for us.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Or Olivia Benson is going to show up at some
point that the copaganda, Olivia Benson is going to kick
down that door right at the.
Speaker 1 (32:16):
Moment and come and come get us from it, from
law and order. And that's not a at all. And
in fact, I think that the worst thing that's happened
to America is the propaganda that we have these agencies,
and they are so fulfilling at all. I think the
FBI and the CIA and all these places need to
be overhauled for competence.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
They say they don't need DEEI.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
But if you're excluding black and brown people from looking
for them properly, then that's why you counted out.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
People look for who they know.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
So of course, if these places are run by white men,
they're going to look for their white daughters and their
white wives and people that look like them.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
And if they see a black girl.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
They might think, oh, well she's no, she's a burnout,
she might be a drug addict. She deserves, they deserve
to be looked for just as much, if not more,
because we are so vulnerable when we go missing. There
should be a whole agency alone that just does missing people.
This should not be a sing in America that people
should go missing like this and no one knows, and
not into trafficking, but being sent out to other countries
(33:14):
and also for harvesting organs.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
That's real, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
And we are allowing that, We're allowing the LGBTQ community
to be set upon and killed and targeted and hunted
and haunted by these things.
Speaker 3 (33:29):
I say no.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
So finding Tamika was my part in sort of saying,
this woman is inviting me to have a larger conversation
about something that's systemic, something that's linked to what when
I feel the Great journalist is called missing White Women's syndrome.
I didn't think it could be done, but then Charlemagne
the God called me and said.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yo, Queen, we got a new deal.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Me and Kevin Hart, we want to make yours the
first what's that thing you pitched about the missing young
black woman? He's from South Carolina. So remember people look
really Grandma, yeah, there you go wow. And I for
a while my mother lived in Greenville, South Carolina, and
my sister's still there, so they gave us a shot.
I always say people in rooms where we're not typically
(34:11):
they're black men, need to speak up for people who
aren't there and give them the shot.
Speaker 3 (34:16):
Give them, you know, say we're going to bring these
people in.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
You got athletes and they're having cigars and drinks with
these very powerful white men who have money and access,
and they want to do business with them because these
are their heroes and including musical artists. And then they
don't bring in our names.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
We need that.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
People who are not in those positions need that, and
they gave us that. So give them all the props.
And why do we do it? Because it seemed like
the right thing at the time. I'll be honest, I
thought there's no way anybody's going to support this.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
I just thought this is dead on arrival. But I'm
not going to say no.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
I got to try, and it wasn't and it got
through in the type of way that we need to
do it.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I had a whole.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Team, and then that team dropped out was women, I'll
be honest with you, and they said I was going
to hurt Tamika because I wanted to do a neo
noir ghost story. I said, it's got to be entertaining. Man,
we got to entertain people. And they were like, well,
we don't want you hurting to Amika. I was like,
I've never And when they dropped out, then there was
another young person, Jasmine Green, and she said, I'm going
(35:16):
to do this. My cousin went missing and we're going
to do it. And we got together and wrote that
thing in three hundred pages and two months, got it done, hosting,
and did it. But it was frankly, I believe Tamika
steering that. And in fact, when twenty twenty did the
recap of it recently, I told twenty twenty I said,
Tamika said it was going to be national. She promised
(35:38):
people she was going to be a star nationally. And
I said, you don't know that. That spirit is very big,
this ghost story. And so I feel like she came
and got me, and I answered yes, but I'm also
answering yes to what I said.
Speaker 3 (35:53):
My mission was on Earth before I got here.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
Wow, Wow, that was powerful.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
I know for a fact what I am tired of
this week is people trying to pretend that these Nazis
are not not I like, it's right in our face,
and the mainstream media will literally put aheadline like seems
to have done a hand gesture that might have been
(36:35):
can you imagine something Hitler?
Speaker 5 (36:37):
It's like, no, he did the exact like.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
I am sick and tired of I guess them trying
to like tell us what we're not watching. I need
mainstream media to stop normalizing this and just calling it
exactly what it is.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
Is there anything that you are tired of this week?
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Wow, I'm tired of so much this week. I guess
I'm tired of black people's warnings being ignored and everybody
playing the price. I wish people would go to their
demographic and do their work, because we will not be
able to save this country on the moral high ground.
Speaker 3 (37:15):
And we vote for the village for the most part.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
But if a constituency is bent on self sabotaging themselves
for whatever reason, fear, whatever, then I'm tired of that.
I'm tired of that because I see how sad black
people are. We're actually going against our own characteristic to
speak out because people are.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Like, no, this has to happen.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I'm going to rest and take care of myself and
let them work for it. Let them see what's at
the end of their fork. And I'm not blaming everybody,
but if that's your group, you got to bring them
into the community. You have to do the work, you
have to make the sacrifice. And if we all went down,
we live in the same country. So if it's not
(38:02):
going to work out, it's not. But I am tired
of that because I think I just see the sadness.
Maybe I feel it. I feel sad, and I would
really like us to move forward and start to work
on really big problems like climate change. We need men,
white men of all ages to get to work and
(38:24):
get a hold of what's going on. It's nothing that
we can do. We don't have the power, and this
world is changing. Not to be afraid of it and
embrace what's happening. So I'm tired of that. I'm also
I have to say, I'm not tired of I just
want to make sure that Dochie gets her props. I'm
tired of people y'all need to pay more.
Speaker 3 (38:43):
Dochi.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
I love Doci. Doci is a great and I don't
know if they hate on us. She's fabulous, dark and fabulous,
you know, yeah, extraordinary talent. I'm grateful for other people
out there doing the work. I'm so happy that people
haven't given up and that they're biding their time and
marching in place.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Sometime you can march in place.
Speaker 5 (39:06):
Oh. I love that. Sometimes you can march and mind you.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I was going to ask for a quote from you
to end on, but sometimes you can march in place.
I think it sums it up. That's perfect. I want
to thank you for being here today.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
The work put in also pen and ink, because I
do believe that that lives way beyond flesh and bone. Everyone,
Erika Alexander, thank you, love, appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Every story I write adds to me, a little changes me,
a little forces me to re examine an attitude or belief,
causes me to research and learn, helps me to understand
people and grow.
Speaker 5 (39:51):
That quote is from Oktavia Butler.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
She wrote primarily science fiction, but if you haven't read her,
this is not like Star Wars. Her works were prescient
and concerned with social conditions and the black experience. This
is sci fi that's human. It's not cold and mechanical.
It's soulful, sensual, heartfelt, and sometimes brutal, but most importantly,
(40:15):
at its core, it's the truth. The novel Kindred, which
Erica mentioned, is about a black woman in the nineteen
seventies who is transported back into the South during slavery.
A true nightmare from a visionary writer. And now in full,
this is dripped by seven Deep. Thanks for listening to
(40:38):
fighting words, and we hope you'll join us for another
round next week.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
Why y'all, don't make the.
Speaker 6 (41:02):
Tail, don't slift and I won't in nowhere you fill
a breath. Baky can have her self. Fuck you dripping
all over the tip watching how you drop to the
brown got a nigga fingt. I wanna eat it right now,
come a little closer, bake and move the thing around.
You better move the shit around, bay playing. You gonna
fill it in your kneega swine joys. Do it to
(41:24):
the beer, then we gonna move it to the sheets.
But you ain't going to.
Speaker 4 (41:29):
Sleep, uh uh.
Speaker 6 (41:48):
Ben wait and on the sunshine and they think you
need that bad?
Speaker 4 (41:53):
Not do it like that? Don't whe else gonna hit
it like that, damn.
Speaker 6 (41:57):
Bunt the back.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
They get a make it clap. I'm'a a pair of
baby reading like my mother.
Speaker 6 (42:02):
Niggas challenge baby, that's bad, Joe Ship, take it in
the truck like please, we're gonna fill it in young
leadline noise. Do it to the then we're gonna move
into the sheets, but you ain't going to sleep.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
Please, we're gonna fill it in young lead loine nooys.
Speaker 6 (42:25):
Do it to the Then we're gonna move into the sheets,
but you ain't going to sleep. Ain't going to sleep
at least Dan give me the horns like that. Ah yeah, a.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Oh one more time?
Speaker 6 (43:10):
Bring ahead, now bring it back? Uh uh not bring
it back back? Please, you're gonna full it in your
knees one joy. Do it to the bead. Then we're
gonna move it to the sheets, but you ain't going
to sleep.
Speaker 5 (43:28):
Huh.
Speaker 4 (43:33):
How won't we get your h not bringing it back?
Speaker 6 (43:39):
Now?
Speaker 4 (43:46):
Rush time with it in the short cause you usually
went off my tail.
Speaker 6 (43:51):
We'll be rich if I post this clip your alien
sup stuff pickle, you wanna fuck me right now? You
know that I'm gonna put it down if I'm dry
and we're gonna do it to this sound.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Jere Jere. I'm gonna make it yere jere chere. Mmmm,
jure jef Jef, I wonna make it jere chere.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
Fighting Words is production of iHeart Podcasts in partnership with
Beth's Case Studios. I'm Georgian Johnson. This episode was produced
by Charlotte Morley. Second producers are myself and Tweaky p
g Guar Song with Adam Pinkins and.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
Brick CAATs for Best Case Studios.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
The theme song was written and composed by Colebos, ban
Bianna and myself. Original music by Colebos. This episode was
edited and scored by Max Michael Miller. Our I Heart
team is Ali Perry and Carl Ketel. Following Rape, Fighting Words,
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