October 9, 2024 • 51 mins
LOOK OUT! It’s only Films To Be Buried With!
Join your host Brett Goldstein as he talks life, death, love and the universe with the absolute film-making legend JASON REITMAN!
Jason's cinematic output over the last 20 years or more is undeniable, and you will have no doubt seen AT LEAST one of his movies and loved it. Maybe quoted it. Maybe re-enacted a scene or two... It's a fabulous thing then to hear this chat with he and Brett and confirm that Jason is indeed every single bit as film nerdy as you would have hoped. But also genuinely entertaining - these worlds are not mutually exclusive! It's a pleasure to hear about all the elements that make up who Jason is, including literally growing up on the Warner Brothers lot, loving comedians, depicting the pleasure of work in films, community of cinema, his father Ivan (some incredible history you'll hear there), surrender, James Acaster, and among so much more, the choreography and design of his new film Saturday Night! Oh and bonus shout to the Prince Charles Cinema too. A delight of an episode, you shall enjoy.
Video and extra audio available on Brett's Patreon!
SUPERBOB (Brett's 2015 feature film)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look how it's only films to be buried with. Hello,
and welcome to films to be buried with. My name
is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian, an actor and writer, director,
(00:20):
a fire extinguisher, and I love films. As Frederick Douglass
once said, it is easier to build strong children than
to repair broken men. Start them on inside out and
they will have the maturity they need to whether any
storm coming. Every week i'mte special guest over, tell them
they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life
from films that meant the most of them. Previous guests
include Barry Jenkins, Amber Ruffin, Sharon Stone, Mark Frost, and
(00:42):
even Bed Clambells. But this week it's the brilliant writer,
producer and director and all round legend mister Jason Rightman.
The last three dates of my North American stand up
tour of Second Best Night of Your Life are happening
in Baltimore, Bellingham and Seattle. Get the last tickets available
(01:02):
at Brett goldsteintour dot com. Thank you to everyone who
has come on this tour. What's a fucking time it
has been. Come along to the last three and we'll
have a rite whole time. Head over to the Patreon
at patreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein, where you'll
get about twenty minutes of maybe a bit more extra
stuff with Jason, including a secret you get the whole
episode uncut Adfrey and as a video. Check it out
(01:23):
over at patreon dot com Forward slash Brett Goldstein. Jason
Rightman Jason Rightman is one of the all time great directors.
He has made some absolute stone cold masterpieces, including Juno,
Young Adult, Tully Up in the Air. He's worked with
The Genie and Ghostbusters, Frozen Empire, and he's responsible for
the new film Saturday Night about the first show of
(01:44):
Saturday Night Live, which I believe is in cinemas now
and if not in the next week, go and see.
It's fucking brilliant. We had never met before, but we
recorded this on zoom. I loved it so much, so
I think it might be one of my old time
favorite episodes. He was such a treat and I really
think you're gonna love this one. That is for now.
I very much hope you enjoy this episode. Three hundred
and twenty of films to be buried with, Hello and
(02:17):
welcome to films to be buried with. It is me
Brett Colstein, and I'm joined today by a legend, a hero,
a writer, a producer, a director. He has genuinely made
some of the best films of all time. He's a junoer,
He's an Up in the Era, He's a Ghostbusters, He's
(02:38):
a young adulter, He's a labor dayer, He's a men,
women and children, you name it, he's done it. I
can't believe he's here. He's also the first person who
knew quite rightly that James A. Custer was a movie star.
Please welcome to the show. Is the one and only
here he is it, say's a right man.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Of the many times I've listened to you do that,
I never imagine, Oh maybe one day I'll hear him
do that about me. And I am so flattered. And
it is just as fun as I thought it would be.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
That's nice. I am like, truly a massive, massive valigold.
I have the poster of Young Adult on my will
in London, no kidding. I think it's one of the
great underrated classics of all time. That film, I think
it's such a great movie. And Up in the Air
was rightly beloved and I love it. I do not
(03:32):
love I love Tally, I love men, women and children.
You haven't made a bad one.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Oh, I've made bad movies. I'll be the first one
to fight you on that, but I'll tell you why.
Your thoughts on Young Adult mean a lot to me
because it was my fourth movie and I was coming
off of Juno and Up in the Air and I
was in a place where I could really make anything. Yeah,
and whatever weight I had in that moment, I used
to make Young Adult a movie where the hero is
(03:59):
trying to end somebody else's marriage, and people didn't get
it at the time, but I'm really proud of it,
and so when I meet someone who really loves that film,
it's a reminder that it was all worth it.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's so so good and I'm sure I've talked about
it on this podcast before because there's a moment in
it and I was like, it's so rare to see
people always talk about in cinema in everything you know
this that they always go are they likable enough? Other
characters are likable enough? And I always think it's bullshit.
Doesn't matter, they just have to be competing. And Young
Adult was such an interesting cinema experience where the audience
(04:32):
when she kisses him, half the audience were like yay,
and half the audience were like no, like people genuinely
didn't know how to feel. I was like, this right, right,
yeah cool.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I think Young Adult is an ugly mirror. It's a
mirror to the ugly parts of ourselves that we don't
want to recognize. And that's something that Diablo and I
think I've always been interested in, is the film screen
is a mirror to the things you were most vulnerable about.
I read that script and I just immediately fell hard
for it.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It's so good. It's also like a really I think,
a really subtle, excellent portrait of alcoholism in a way
that it isn't an addiction film, you know what I mean,
but it is right. That is a film about an acoholic,
and it's fucking good.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What a great It's a movie about loneliness. Yeah, and
that's what Up in the Air is about as well.
So you know, when I meet people who like those films,
I have to ask right back, it's how lonely are you?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Lonely enough? That that's one of my favorite films. So
I was like I feel seen great and it's such
a good film about consequences, you know what I mean,
like the end of it and that when he knocks
on her door and it's like, yeah, this is this
is your life, this is what you have built. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, it's one thing to theorize about how you think
life is supposed to be lived and then suddenly it's
put right back in your face. I knew that I
wanted to make up in the year when I knew
the ending, and Young Adult was really similar that way,
and they have oddly similar endings, Yeah, they do. It's
two people who are alone at the end. You know,
(06:11):
George is looking up at the big board of destinations
and Charlie's is just staring at the windshield.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah. And I also think there's another thing up in
there that I think you've done a few films to
sit maybe and thank you for smoking, where it's like
it's also a rare thing in like Hollywood films that
like I always think about, say, Mary Poppins is the
most extreme version of it, where Mary Poppins the messages
don't work too hard, like the dad needs to leave
the bank and spend time with the kids. Yeah, that's
(06:38):
usually Hollywood films is like, we shouldn't work, we should
spend time with our families. And what I like about
a lot of your stuff is there's a sort of
they acknowledge the pleasure of work and up in the
air they're arguing over their their amex cards and their
points like the pleasure in work and the spoils of it.
(07:01):
I don't think it's ever done like such a rare
example of going and that bit's also fun. You know.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, films are normally moralistic, and I think we just
kind of take it as a given that a film
is supposed to have good moral values and it is
supposed to teach you something. And I found that I
really enjoy movies that actually acknowledge and see the parts
of me that I'm not thrilled with or I think
I'm supposed to be embarrassed of. And look, the truth
(07:27):
is that I feel a lot of the things that
George doesn't up in the air, and I do like
collecting air miles, and I do look filling my life
with the bullshit sometimes, and I do question whether you're
supposed to live the rest of your life with one
human being, and whether you can only love one human being.
And in young adults case, I mean, I'd be lying
if there wasn't a part of me that just didn't
ache for success and ache for fame. And you know,
(07:50):
I mean, I think most people would be lying if
they said that wasn't true for them. And so it's
kind of nice to see a character who unapologetically says
this is who I am, or even if she's lying,
it's such a thin lie.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah. And what about what like young adult you've got
patterns or amazing performance? Yeah? So really, and I wonder,
And I was thinking, you've had him, You've had James
A Paster, you like comedians, and I wonder what you like?
Was pattern without naming anyone else? Was he like the
only choice for that?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So I do a table read of my scripts before
I go and make them. And it's the kind of
last moment where I make that green light, internal green
light decision of whether this is the thing I need
to make. And we'll sit down on my dining room table,
bind me and we'll read the script. And I asked
Patton to come because he was already a friend, and
read that part and by the end of the table
it was like all right, Well, clearly he's going to
(08:40):
play the role, and he was perfect for it. But
I do love stand ups. I think stand up comedians
have an inner awareness and you know, a sense of
what it's like to be human in a way that
other storytellers don't. There's obviously you're completely exposed as a
stand up when you get on stage, and the best
stand ups are digging deep and they're exposing really rough
(09:03):
sides of themselves for an audience to just shit all over.
And I love that. I love that vulnerability. I love
that sense of humor.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
It's great. And listen, people are going to want to know,
because can you tell us what it was like working
with James A pasta. I've heard his side of it.
He loved it. What is it like?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I adore Look, I adore James, and you know, from
the moment I saw his special and then I got
step in person, I got to know him as a person.
I listened to his podcast. I have to point out
there is something interesting about the fact that he just
wants to really talk about food. You just want to
talk about movies, but you don't feel like you can
just do that. He's got to have a Genie, you
(09:44):
got to die, Like, I don't know what it is
that you need this membrane the conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Is because I think it's being stand ups just so
you cannot be boring. You cannot be boring. So we're
gonna have to whack a jen. We're in the afterlife.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Keep it unlike your so in coming on your podcast.
At least I know the format. I you know, and
I'm like, I know the bit. I'm really excited about it.
Were a cast. When I went on his I had
never listened before when he did the he when he
showed up out of the lamp, I had no idea
what the fuck he was doing. I was I was soused.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But it's so funny because I've heard his you know,
episode of yours where he talks about being in Ghostbusters
and and I heard him like complain about improvising, as
though like that wasn't his favorite thing to do. But
he came in and he read and and Gil and
I already knew he was the guy. But he came
in and he read and it was just tailored for me.
(10:48):
He just had the exact right sense of humor. You know,
Ghostbusters have always been outsider comedians who are not afraid
of being nerdy and smart, and like that's exactly who
James is and so he's kind of perfect for it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well he's fucking and well I've done. Can I ask
you one more question? Yeah, because you mentioned it before
we started recording, and it was so interesting. I'm working
at Warner Brothers and you grew up on the lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
So my father's office was on now it used to
be called the Burbank Studios, and it was both the
Warner Brothers and the Columbia Lot, and my father had
made Ghostbusters for Columbia, and I grew up on that lot.
I grew up walking around. I told you that the
New York Street which was dressed for Blade Runner. My
dad took me to that set when I was a
(11:33):
little kid. I learned to drive a car, driving a
golf cart around that lot no way. And my favorite
thing I used to do was I don't know why
this happened, but they used to share all the call
sheets for all the sound stages around the lot. So
my father's office every morning would get a list of
all the call sheets and I could see who was
shooting on what stage and I would just wander over,
(11:54):
and being ten, eleven, twelve years old, everyone just presumes
I'm the kid of somebody, right, So I just would
walk onto the set, and I remember walking like Flatliners
was made back then, and it runs too and Batman
returns and just all kinds of cool sets, and I
(12:14):
would just wander in and walk around, fucking cool man. Yeah,
do you remember Blue Thunder? This is a weird deep hole.
There was a helicopter movie was starring Roy Scheider from
the early eighties, and that used to be on the
back lot that was just sitting around for years there
as I mean, now, there's a bunch of offices where
they used to have cool things, like there was an
old western town. There was a jungle area, which is
where they shot Creature from the Black Lagoon. So it
(12:38):
really it was like walking around Disneyland.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's fucking right. I'm assuming you always loved it, as
in just because you grew up and it was never like, ah,
just this shit. It was always exciting.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Any day that I could convince my father to let
me come with them to work was a good day.
And so I'd sit in the car with them on
the way to work and I'd ask them questions. I
was one of those kids. I'd just sit in the
passenger seat and just pelt them with question. And then
there was so many cool things about going to his office.
First of all, he had like like a revolving craft
service in his office, so there's just lots of available
(13:10):
his chips and candy and all sorts of crappty. He
also had a bunch of toys in his office, because
it was always like there was Ghostbusters toys, and there
was models for all the kinds of things he was
built working on. I feel like the reason why most
of us love that lot is because we grew up
on Bugs Bunny cartoons, and Bugs Bunny was a Warner
Brothers cartoon. So anytime Bugs Bunny would go on the
(13:31):
lot and you'd see him like talk to the security guard,
sneak by to the security guy. He was on the
Warner Brothers lot. So everyone's perception of what a movie
studio is supposed to look like comes from Bugs Bunny.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Very good. Oh, I'm sorry, we've been talking about all
your other things. I saw so your new film Saturday night.
I saw him Saturday. I went to the bank, sold
out screening it played like Gangbusters, which I've never understood
that reference, but I've seen that means good.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one. That's God's good.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
And I loved it and it's so good, and I
was like, I mean, I could say many things about it,
but what at its base it was almost like a
muppet sharpe is that let's put on It's a film
about let's put on the show. Yeah, and it's so
exciting and it's such a like I think we can
spoil the ending.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, Well, the best part about picturing this movie from
the beginning was I could always tell the entire story,
which is it's a movie about the ninety minutes leading
up to the first time anyone ever said live from
New York at Saturday night. And the closing line of
the movie is live from New York at Saturday Night.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And it's so satisfying when it happens, and it's such
a like it's like a sports movie. It's literally like
a sportsman like yes, because we've been through such a
ride to get there, and it's thrilling and it is
like all the things I like. All the things you're
talking about is about the creative act and bringing these
people together and marhling it and it's so satisfying. And
(14:56):
I wondered about the making of it because it is
pace wise, it's fun, he's stressful for ninety minutes. Yeah,
it's real time and it's moving through corridors, and I wondered,
I don't know how you schedule it. I was curious, like,
did you shoot in order or whether because it's sort
of seemingly one thing, but there's obviously how do you
do it?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
So the actors who signed up for this movie signed
up for an experience, okay, one in which you work
every single day, because the idea was to create a living,
breathing form of eight h the studio where they shoot SNL.
And that started with the set where Jess gone for For
our production designer who did like No Country for Old Man,
he rebuilt the entire eighth ninth floor of Rockefeller Center
(15:38):
down to like the original blueprints. Where was the set
we shot in Atlanta?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Wow, okay, so we built.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's so funny because we were on a on a
lot where Superman had almost every stage, but then we
had one stage that was ours, and we thought we
were the cool kids there and we built the entire
ace and lines floor as an enclosed single set, because
it's not really a movie with ninety scenes. It's a
movie with one scene that's ninety minutes. And all the
(16:06):
lighting was built into the set, all the cabling was
built in the set. There was microphones built into the
set so that there was no reason why you had
to start or stop a scene at any given moment.
You could just keep shooting because there's nothing visible on
set that would let you know where you were. And
we began working with stand ins on what essentially is
the choreography of the movie. It's like a dance movie.
(16:27):
You're choreographing all the movement of there's eighty speaking roles,
and there's eighty background actors and they work. They all
work every single day, and the shots could be three, four,
five minutes long, and the result is to give you
this sense that you just got dropped into nineteen seventy five.
The cameras like a human being with their head on
a swivel, just picking up information as it's coming by.
(16:47):
One of the best ways I can explain it is
the sound work EI. There was days where our mixer,
Steve Morrow, had up to fifty eight audio tracks going simultaneously.
That is to say, he had to bring a second
mixing board or just to handle the amount of tracks
that he's mixing in real time. So there's all the
mics that are built into the set, but then every
speaking role is wearing a mic as well, and the
(17:09):
band is all mics simultaneously, and he's live mixing everything,
so that you're getting like a mix of information all
the time. There's the people who are speaking right in
front of camera, but then there's the second layer, third layer,
fourth layer of characters and they're also talking, and it's
again it's like picking up information in a real place.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Given how it is, can I ask you this? I
am aware there is often when you make a film
seek if there's a budget, you get the chance to
do pickups. You've done an edit and you go, oh,
this is missing, we need to get this. Yeah, time
at this thing. With a film like that, I can't
imagine whether pickups was there anything you redid?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You just have to shoot the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, it is holding in order.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
It's funny. There's a director friend of mine who I
was speaking to right before we went in, and I
was talking about different actors and have you ever worked
with them? And what do they like? And you know,
are they going to be trouble? And at a certain
point he just said, hey, you're making a movie about
the open night of Saturday Night Live, Surrender. And it
was the best advice anyone could have given me, because
it's true. At a certain point, I could choreograph the
(18:07):
living shit out of it. And by the way, we
had we had a whiteboard the way a coach does,
and every morning at eight am we would meet at
home base and I would draw out everybody's movement like
a football play, and I would say, all right, this
is where every actor a draw, the camera, all the extras,
so everyone knew where they were going. But still, even
once everyone knows exactly where they're supposed to be and
(18:27):
we start to work it out, I have to surrender
to the magic. And the magic is what happened when
the molecules start bumping into each other.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's fucking good man, congratulations.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Thank you. I mean, that's how Saturny Live has been
for years. It's a it has to surrender to the
fact that it is live. You know, they go live
on air and then what happens happened. And that's the delight.
Half of the delight of watching SNL is knowing not
only the cats but the crew are somehow pulling this
off every single Saturday. And so when in making this film,
(18:57):
we chose to address it the same way.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Jonson.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Oh no, I know what's coming.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
On to you. Something?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Oh man, hit me?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Oh god, I can't believe I forgot. We were having
such a nice time. Yeah shit, I'll just say it,
and well, okay, guess we'll do with it.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
It can't be that bad.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Um, I guess it depends. You know, Saturday nights to
come out. You want to enjoy the You've died, You're dead?
Oh come on, I'm sorry. Man. Listen, you left on a.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
High, had plans, I had dreams.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
How did you die?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I thought about this. I'll tell you the moment that
I always think about the possibility of dying. And it's
either when I'm almost done writing a script, or almost
done shooting a film, or almost done editing a movie.
And it's a part of me that is always like,
I can't die now. I need to finish this. No
one's going to be able to take this. Seventy five
percent of a script and makes that sut of it.
(20:02):
And it often happens when I'm sitting in a plane
and I have this moment where I'm just, you know,
thirty forty thousand feet above the earth, and I imagine
a hole just opening up below me and my entire
seat with me and it just falls to the earth.
And I imagine that all that time in the air
thinking about how I was going to finish that script
(20:23):
or finish that movie, and it's never going to be done.
That just scares me the most.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You and Barry Jenkins, to excellent directors, both die by plane.
Huh makes you think, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I'll take that. I'll take literally any comparison to Barry Jackets,
even if you're not comparing to my movies. If you're
literally just yeah, you both think you might die that way.
That said, now that you've brought this up, if I
ever get on a plane with Barry, say one of
us has to get off.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
You two are taken. Cause do you worry about death?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I mean, I don't think there's anything beyond which I
know we're going to talk about later. But you know what, Look,
I'll tell you this, I really didn't believe in a
beyond until I lost my father, and I feel like
I've been visited him by him in ways that at
least put a question in my head?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Could you tell me one of them? Or is that
too much?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I'll tell you the little ways. Maybe one day when
we meet for a drink, I'll tell you the big one.
But I know it's a shitty tease. I'm excited to hear,
but it's personal. Yeah, I hear him laughing at jokes
that I write. You know, there's these moments where I'm
working on Ghostbusters and I'm writing dialogue for characters he
helped create, and it's strange because I'm thinking, oh, you know,
(21:42):
he's never going to read this, es And now my
Saturday Night LiveScript actually is the last script of mine
and my father ever read. But it's the first movie
of mine that I'll never see. But sometimes I'm writing,
you know, for Winston or for Ray or for venk Men,
and then I'll hear my dad laugh and I'll know
it works or the opposite, and I know it needs
(22:02):
an edit. But yeah, no, I feel like I've been visited.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Thank you man. Well, listen, there's your proof. There is
a heaven and you'll go in.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I like the assumption that I'm going to heaven.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Well you were, Barry Jenkins, you will end the plane
together it Oh.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
My god, that would suck. We both in a plane
and all of a sudden I see Barry floating up.
I'm like, well, what.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I mean, hey, it makes better movies. But come on,
can I please?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
It's filled with your favorite thing heaven? What's your favorite thing?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm going to see movies? I mean, my favorite thing
really is just going to see movies. I don't mean
to give such a boring answer, and I'm sure I'm
not the first person to say, but as soon as
I had my driver's license, I would just go to
the movies. And this last year I actually bought a
movie theater with a bunch of other directors, to which
one Yeah, there's a theater in Los Angeles called the Village.
(22:56):
It's my favorite movie theater in the world. My second
favorite is in London is the Prince Charles, because that's
the best audience I've ever seen a movie within my life.
When I was in London shooting, I went to the
Prince Charles as often as I possibly could. If they
had a Mystery Movie. I was there, I never got
to do one of the overnights. I really wanted to
do that. I'm hoping one day to do that. But
(23:17):
there's a sense of community at the Prince Charles Theater.
Yeah that's really important because people talk a lot about
picture and sound. They go on and on about it
as though that is the reason to see a movie
in the movie theaters. And yeah, sure, that's great. It's
great to see a movie with on a big screen
with big sound. But the reason I go to the
movies is community. And when I was at the Prince Charles,
I felt a sense of community. Whether we were seeing
(23:39):
you know, Alien or Scooby Doo, you know, or Akira,
Like it just didn't matter. I felt like I was
with my people and we laughed again, we cry together,
and it makes you feel less alone speaking of loneliness,
and so I love the movies.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Well, you tell you what, you're in the right place.
I'll tell you that they're very happy to say that.
Screamings everywhere. Guys, it's your community. They're so happy to
see you and they want to talk about your life.
But they want to talk about it. Died earlier. You've
been working too much. And they first thing they ask is,
(24:17):
where's the first film you remember seeing?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Jason right, Oh my god, you're you You're going to know.
The answer to this already is Ghostbusters?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Is it? Yeah? Is it? Yeah? How old were you?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I'm six years old?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Six.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I was on the set and I remember seeing it,
and it's scared the living crap out of me. The
library ghost and the terror Dog and Elmer Bernstein's music,
and like it didn't even matter that I had seen
them make it, so I'd already seen how they actually
made this movie. So it's not as though I was unaware.
But I saw it in different countries, you know, Like
(24:53):
I saw that movie in la and New York and
in Paris, and I went with my dad around the
world with it, and it ever lost its juice. I
mean I used to wake up thinking the tear dog
was underneath my bed.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
What a cool what a cool life? Are you an
only child? But do you have I got two sisters?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Okay, I got my so Catherine, my younger sister, has
a show on Netflix called Working Moms, which is like
a hit all around the world. They have seven seasons.
It crushes, it kills uh so when when I go
out with Katherine, everyone recognizes her. And then I got
a little sister who very different life, married a guy
in the Navy and a Navy corman and lived on
(25:33):
base and uh lives down in San Diego. Now, but
we all, we all have the same sense of humor.
We all get along.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I love it. What is the film that made you
cry the most? Are you a crier? You're all right?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Movie that made me cry?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So I got I got a I got a few
here for cry and I know you only want one.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
But I'm going to make exceptions for you.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It's very kind of you. I mean, stand by Me
kills me every time. Breaking Away he kills me every time. Beginners,
which is a film that I found particularly amongst men
of my generation. Beginners rocks that world. But the one
that I'm gonna go with is a Swedish film called Together,
a director named Lucas Moodyson. And have you ever seen it?
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah? He because he made that, it's that lovely film.
And then he made a very dark film.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yes, and he made Lylia Forever exactly so, also brilliant
but really rough.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, so Together.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I remember reading this Roger Eaedbert piece, and he was
talking about Lucas Moodyson as one of the most important
living directors, and I thought, I don't even know who
this guy is. I just felt embarrassed, and I immediately went
and watched his films and they're all fantastic. I had
a film called We're the Best recently that was really great.
But I had a film called I Am Love, which
is fantastic, Lily Forever, which is a masterpiece. But Together
(26:50):
is unlike any movie I've ever seen. It really introduces
you to a character that you think is speaking of
unredeemable characters. Like you said earlier, you meet a guy
in that movie this is no coming back, And by
the end of this movie, you're just in love with
all these people. You could have never imagined coalescing the
way they did. They all live in like a commune
(27:10):
in Stockholm, so they are a commune living in living
in a townhouse in Stockholm. And it's a hard movie
to find. So I feel bad talking about a movie
where s here I am talking about how great it
is and any listeners being like, oh great, I'm gonna
screaming them, yeah, good luck. But it's but it's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Great, great, great. What about being scared? Other than Ghostbusters?
What's the film that scared you the most? Do you
like it?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Michael Hannike's Funny Games scared the but Jesus out of me,
and less so because of the jump scares, because you know,
like in a pure way, I think the scariest films
I've ever seen are the ones you'd expect, like, you know,
the shining. But there's something about Funny Games where the
whole conceit is that there are no rules that you know.
Hannikey's point of view seems to be in almost all
(27:58):
of us films, that these rules that we think we
live by, the reason why you don't just punch people
in the face, the reason why you're not just an
asshole to people, there is no there is no reason
why we abiding by societal rules. And in Funny Games,
he's bending the way that we interact and there's a
cruelty to it that is nasty. It's a mean film. Yes,
(28:20):
I can't remember what movie it is. He used to
be a movie that talked about baseball, and I would say,
to be a picture, you got to be mean. And
I feel like, you know, to make funny games. You
got to be mean. You gotta be a mean director.
You have to be cruel to the audience. Yeah, that's interesting.
A lot of his films are mean. He's a mean director,
which I think is really brave.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, it's something I really admire. Like, I don't think
I could be that mean to the audience. And I'm
and I'm kind of mean to the audience, Like I
my movies have sad endings and then they have unrepentant characters.
But I'm not touching Anikey. I mean, Anniky leaves you
out in the coult.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I think what's interesting about what like you young don't
I'm trying to say American, is that it's it is
bad people, but you love them. You the film like that. Yeah,
I love the characters and that right, it's more interesting
to me. That seems big. It's easy to judge people
and you don't. I think that's so you think, well, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I actually don't. I don't tend to believe in good
or evil. I don't believe in evil people. And I
think there's a again, there's a general conceit in a
lot of films that there's people who are good and
there's people and evil, and I just don't.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I just don't.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It's why I struggle with Westerns. I just don't believe
in the white hat and the black hat. I'll tell
you I do have a funny Michael Hannikey story I
went to. I was at a film festival in the
Czech Republic called carl Avari, and they were playing a
handicky film called The Piano Teacher, The Piano Lesson and
great movie. I any went Best Actor and Actress I
(29:56):
can that year. But at this film festival, all the
movies played in like old ballrooms that were convicted converted
into movie theaters, and they didn't have subtitles. Rather, you
would get a headset as you walked into the movie theater,
and then in the back there were little booths like
the un where they hire like college students who knew
lots of languages to live translate the movie. So I
(30:17):
got this headset on. I click it in and I
start watching the Handikee film and this is a filthy movie,
and and there's some college girl translating the movie and
she's just getting embarrassed and the movie's really heavy, but
she's just giggling because she's afraid to translate the stuff
that's happening on screen. So I'm watching these movies and
(30:37):
this intense scenes are happening, and then you know, this
girl in my ears, like I want to lick your assess.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
The best way to watch on Michael Hannecke film, that's fine,
she just going You get it, you get it, you know,
you know what's happening because you, guys, what is the
film that you love?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
It is not critically acclaimed, most people don't even like it,
but you love it unconditionally.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I'm not sure if this film counts, but I love
a film called Pump Up the Volume with Christian Slater
from the early nineties. I'm not sure if anyone thinks
highly of it, but I love that movie. Like, I
think that's a profoundly good movie about being a teenager
and Christian Slater's phenomenal in it. And I think it
(31:28):
made me want to be a DJ, Like it made
me want to like have my own pirate radio station
where I could just share my thoughts secretly.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That's a fucking great shot. That's a perfect shot. Not
critically acclaimed, but it worked. Do you have you watched
it recently? Like how much is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Oh yeah, I have a movie night every Sunday at
my house. Ay Caster's been doing. It's been going back
over ten years, and Sunday's always made me depressed. Sunday's
were always really hard for me, and I was looking
for a solution for Sundays and I just started having
people over to my house on Sunday to watch movies,
and so every Sunday night, I have a movie night.
We started with like really heavy stuff, but at one
point we got to pump up the volume and it
(32:05):
played great. Kill That's great.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Okay. Well, then the next question is a film that
you used to love that you've watched recently, maybe on
a Sunday, and you've got Oh. I feel very differently
about this now.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I feel really nervous to say this because I'm sure
people will disagree with me. But a film that I
loved that I thought was brilliantly funny and is clearly
groundbreaking I went to see with some friends a few
years ago and it did not make me laugh. And
that film is the Zuker Brothers film Airplane.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I knew you were going to say it.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And trust me, I feel a little red dot on
my head, just saying that out loud. But it was
really hard to watch that movie. Now, when's the last
time you watch Airplane?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I am watching a long time. Is it that it's dated?
Is it like offensive? Or is it that it's just
not funny.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I don't really get offended by movies, Like I feel
like movies have a time and place and you know,
and I can watch a movie enjoy it for what
it is. It just didn't hit me the way I
did when I was a kid. When I was a kid,
I thought it was really funny and irreverent and kind
of groundbreaking. Like I just like I could feel it
because it was challenging my thoughts on what a movie
could be. And it was hard to watch.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
You and Brendane Brown, You and Brendan Brown, listen, You're
in good company at Barry Jenkins and Brene Brown.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Oh also didn't like Airplane?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
How was her worst film? What is the film that
means the most to you? The film is good, but
the experience you had seeing it always special to you.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
This is a strange one. So I got to start
directing commercials right out of college. I was really lucky.
I started making short films in college, they started playing
film festivals and it became a professional commercial director right
out of school. I got an early commercial that shot
in London. It was the first time I got to
actually like live out there, and it was really like
I remember, I lived at the Sanderson Hotel for a month,
(33:54):
which was just it was it was still like really
cool and new. It's in uh it's above Oxford Street
in Soho, and you know, it was a really trippy
hotel that had a twenty four hour DJ before like
it feels like every hotel now has a twenty four
hour DJ. And I was out there making this commercial
for Honda, working with Widen Kennedy, which which was such
(34:17):
a badass agency. And I went to every movie theater
in the area when I was living at Soho. I
think I went to every single movie theater that exists
out there that it was walking distance. And I got
to a point where I was running out of movies
because I was just seeing movies every single day. And
I went into a screen of a movie and I
didn't know what the hell it was and never heard
of it, and it was Paul Greengrass's Bloody Sunday.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And you know, perhaps I'm n educated. I really didn't
know much about the events of A Bloody Sunday, and
it was a filmmaking style that I feel like I
hadn't seen before, where it was so authentically documentary in
its style and so well done that it immediately, I mean,
it just kind of broke me as a director because
I just kept on thinking, how the hell did you
(34:57):
do this? It felt like a magic trick that I
couldn't puzzle out out yeah, and was simultaneously really moving
and put me on kind of a life's journey of
chasing how do you recreate reality? Like how do you
actually make it feel like you're watching something genuine? And
I think up until then, I thought the primary goal
of a director was to do something cool, you know,
like come up with a cool shot, put it to
(35:19):
cool music, like I you know, I grew up on
Quentin Tarantino, and suddenly I watched this Paul green Grass
film and you know, I'm sure anyone listening right now
would say, yeah, why don't you just go look at
some nineteen sixties French and Italian films and lend very
day is And yeah, fine. I didn't go to film school,
but that Paul Grengrass movie showed me and seeing it
(35:40):
in London was particularly special.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well, the fucking great as it well in Saturday Night?
I like you. You touched it on film, right, it
looks real.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, it was shot from sixteen, which I presume is
what he shot on And I was really just trying
to make a comedic bloody Sunday and I think I
finally found the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I think you did it. I really think it does
feel everything you said. It does feel chaotic. It feels
genuinely chaotic, and yeah, in a good way anyway. Yeah,
what is the film you most relate to?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Hal Ashby's Shampoo?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Are you wearing Beaty?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
No? But what I love about that movie is that
there I wish I was warn baby. There are five
access points to that film. There's three women and two
men who are kind of in a love pentagon and
they're discussing the idea of what whether one person can
fulfill everything you need in life. And it's a movie
about five people with five different dreams, and it's it's
(36:35):
correctly set in Los Angeles, which is a city where
people show up it too, because they're chasing some kind
of dream and it's about real politics, it's about sexual politics.
And look, a lot of takes place in Beverly Hills,
where I grew up. And I think people think of
Beverly Hills as a tourist destination, but it's also where
I grew up, you know, and you know is where
(36:55):
I went to the grocery store and stuff. And that movie,
that movie portray raised five different people who want things
and they're not all good things, but it never judges them.
And frankly, the image of Warren standing out on you know,
the edge of Mulholland at the end, looking into the distance,
I mean that that's the ending of Up in the Air.
I mean Up in the Air is a love letter
(37:16):
to shampoo.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Wow, yeah it is, I see that. Speaking of one baby,
What's the sexiest thrill You've ever seen?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Man?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I knew this one was coming and I thought a
lot about it. It's a really tricky one because there's
two far there's two kinds of sexy movies. Right, I
think the first thing that pops in your head and
you're like, what's sexiest movie you've ever seen? Is like
a movie starring the sexiest person? Right and right, like
the first thing in your head is like, all right, well,
I'm really attractive so and so and so anything they're
(37:47):
in that is clearly the sexiest movie. But then there's
a movie where the sexuality is not just how good
he or she looks, it's there's a sexuality to the film.
And like, the first one that comes to mind is
Mike Go Closer, Like there's an honesty in the sexual
relationships in that movie that I think that turns me on.
And then I got a weird one. Did you see
(38:09):
the Polish movie Cold War black and white film?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I got the pist through that as well. I have
the pist of Cold War and young adult War.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Cold War is one of the best movies of this century.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
It's a great expertly.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Done and it's also kind of sexy because it's really
the relationship is so real, and their approach to love
and affairs and breakup and weird desire and being really
honest about what you want and the fact that there
is like there's there's something transactional about love that people
(38:46):
are afraid to talk about whether and I'm not talking
about just financially transactional. Transactional, it's like it's transactional on
ten levels, and we don't just come together because we're
magnets for each other. And I like that cold word
openly kind of gets into.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
That fucking great film. And it's also I've just realized something.
But it's also like an epic film that's ninety minutes
and yeah does everything.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
And every scene is one shot.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Fuck, it's a great movie.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
It's an intimidatingly good film. I mean, that's the kind
of movie you watch and go, well, maybe I won't
make movies like it's just like, it's the best film
has already been made. Why am I trying?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah? Wow? And what about we have a subcategory traveling
by worrying? Why don't a film you found a rousing
you weren't sure? You shit?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Oh my god. I mean here's the one. Here's where
I really out myself. It's not the whole movie. It's
a scene. Can I if you're gonna have a subcategory,
can I you've been sub subcategory?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Subcategory. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
There's a scene in Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master where
Amy Adams is giving Philip sum Or Hoffman a hand job.
You remember this. They're in the bathroom and he's obviously
in control of the entire movie, and then she sets
him straight and she jerks him off while telling him
exactly who's in control. And that's one of the hardest
scenes I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Great answer. Sorry, no, nothing to a budotize about. I think.
I think that's excellent, brilliant, not being wrong with it.
No notes, what's what is objectively the greatest film of
all time. It might not be your favorite, but it
is the pinnacle of cinema.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
I fear I'm giving an answer that's been said a lot.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Eat. No, it hasn't been said in a long time,
and it's untouchable. Yeah. I can't watch it, but you're right.
Why because it makes me cry too much and I
can't handle those feelings. I find it sort of too devastating. Eat.
It destroyed me. I don't think I've been the same since.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
What's your relationship like with your dad? Come on, man,
let's go.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
I'm opening up my heart here to you. I'm giving
you anything.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah, but I wouldn't do this podcast. You're bad to
do it. Yeah, I love I love him very much. Yeah,
and he took us to I have talked about this
years ago in this podcast. But he took us to
et having seen it, you know, he took me and
my sister like the second time, he'd already seen it,
and he was like, you got to see this. And
I remember and I was so young, and I remember
(41:21):
being like just crying and crying. And I think I
even said to him, why have you brought us to this?
Because I'm so devastated. He was like, what are you
putting me through? Yeah, it's so sad. It is amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
The economy of storytelling is perfect. The music, it's maybe
the best original score of all time. It's a movie
about the deep need for love parenting. I mean, every
choice is perfect on it.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah, and there's a thing I talked about that I
love in hugely an earlier Spielberg. I don't know how
much he does it now, but it's your documentary thing.
There's like the scenes of them having dinner early on
in the film where it feels improvised. It feels so real,
Ye all that.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Ye, them eating pizza. It's interesting. I feel like every
director of my age now attempts to do a scene
of a family and they're always singing in a kitchen
booth with that light that's hovering like this far, you know,
just like you know, just two feet off the table,
and we're all referencing this same dinner scene. I'd like,
(42:25):
for instance, in my life, I've never been to someone's
house who has a booth in their kitchen, But in
movies you see it a lot. And it's because we
all saw them, you know, ordering the pizza, and like
the whole thing, we're all referencing the same thing.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
That's true. It's an amazing film. It is an amazing film.
I can't bear it, but it is amazing. What is
the film you could or have watched the most over
and over again?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Michael Winterbottom's twenty four Hour Party People.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Really, that's a great movie.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
There's the first movie in my life that I watch
and then the moment it ended, I literally just restarted
the film. It's a movie that I show my cast
on many of the movies before we go to make it.
As just kind of talking about performance. I think it's
absolutely extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Because of how naturally is well.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
It's it's both right because because there's extreme naturalism on
the on the verge of documentary happening, and then simultaneously
there's real comedic performance. I mean like like people obviously
brilliant comedians who are working with a genuine command of
what is funny and how to be funny and how
to do character work. So it's both things happening fascinating.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
I love Michael Winchbot, I love how.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, and nothing quite touches that. Like his work is
great in general, but his ability to make a love
letter about a city perfectly like, I don't know another
love letter to a city as good as twenty four hour.
Part of People is to Manchester. It's the best movie
about musical history where you watch the transition from punk
to new wave in this naturalistic way where it all
(44:01):
makes sense. It's devastating when you know to the end
of joy division. It's also delightful. Its main character is
completely unredeemable, and it breaks the fourth wall in a
way that no movie you've ever seen breaks the fourth wall,
because because Steve Coogan's not only addressing camera but talking
(44:23):
about where we are in the movie at that moment
and referencing people in the movie who are played by themselves,
and it's sense of itself. It is the definition of meta,
and yet it is still completely deeply evolving. It's not
broken into three acts, it's broken into different It's it's
an exceptional film.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Good answer, Good answer. Listen. We don't like to be negative,
so we do it quick. What's the worst film you've
ever seen? I don't think I can answer this question,
and I do owt to me a dick. I know
I respect you for it. It was a test.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Have you ever heard Patton Oswald's bit about Deathbed, the
Bet that Eats be He has an old stand up
routine and he's talking about the movie Deathbed, The Bed
that Eats People, which I think is you know, you know,
you know, it's known as the worst movie ever made.
I don't know what it was, rotten tomato score is.
But he talks about the crew that made Deathbed, the
Bed that Eats People. He talks about the guy from
(45:17):
Crafty who woke up at four am to just brew
the coffee so that the crew had the energy to
make death Bed the Bed that Eat People. Or the
carpenter who threw out his arm, putting it nails into
the death bed and as a result never taught his
son to throw a ball, and the son hates him
for the rest of his life, Like you know, to
(45:39):
make a movie is an extraordinary sacrifice, Like as a director,
you are convincing people to join you on a one
year journey where they sacrifice their loved ones, their time.
The other thing they could have worked on that was
undoubtedly going to be better. And so it's really hard
to just point out a film and be like, that
film's awful. The only reason I can point to a
film and say it's awful is when I go, there
(46:00):
is no good reason that movie was made. It was
not made by anyone who had anything to say or
wanted to make it. It was simply a studio just
shoving money down people's throats. So I guess I would
potentially point to one of those films.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I respect you for it, and you're right. What is You?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Will still ask this question of your next guest.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
I don't know why it's still in the list. I
feel bad every time it comes up. What is your
your You made comedies, you're in comedy. What's the film
that made you laugh the most?
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I saw American Psycho by Mary Herron at its premiere
at the Sundance Film Festival. Wow, And I remember I
was already fan of you know, who shot Andy Warhol
and sitting in the Eccles Theater with or a thousand
people and nobody got the joke, and I was cackling.
I just could not stop laughing at that movie. I
(46:49):
loved how dark it was and menacing unrepented hero and
that movie delights me. Yeah, I think it's it's it's
funny in a way I wouldn't even know.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
It is funny. Yeah, great answer, Jason Ryman. God, you've
been a pleasure. My god, I've enjoyed this. However. Yeah,
when you went to catch a plane and you were
walking to your seat and Barry Jenkins saw you coming
down the island, he went and he said, if you'll
excuse me, I don't like the feel of this, and
(47:23):
he got up, very where are you going? And he
passed you in. He went a big fan of your work,
but he was loving and I have so many questions. Okay,
he went by so flight and he gets off and
you sit down like that was weird. And the plane
takes off and you decide to watch a film, and
you watch Michael Hanneka film and you're like, well, I
(47:47):
guess maybe everything's going to be Okay. I'm watching the
plane's flying and you you notice there's a little sort
of sort of rattle just by your feet, and you're like,
why is that? And you you reached down, like where
is that? And you seel like a little like a
little rattle with your foot and you press your foot down.
Where's that? Press harder and the bottom falls out just
(48:10):
where your seat is, and your seat falls through the
plane and you get picked up by the When you spin,
the spin spin like sundry bog and gravity. Gravity is
coming and you spin and spin and spin and spin,
and you head towards the ground. And Barry Jenkins sat
there with a nice espresso. You finish, and he goes,
(48:37):
fucking hell, my instincts were right. And I'm walking past
with a coffin, you know what. I'm like. I'm like,
all right, Barry, how's it going. He says, yeah, I'm
late for a meeting I was supposed to meet on
a plane, but I think it's for the best. And
I goes, that is Jason. He goes, yeahs yeah, and
I go fucking He give me a hand, Barry, and
the two of us try and get but you're attached
(48:59):
to your see the bits of the plane are still
with you? Is a fucking recommender to dig you out?
Dig you out anyway, we end up chopping you up
into bits, you know what we like, we end up
putting you in the coffin. There's only enough room now
in this coffin, it's rand. There's only enough room to
slip one DVD into the side for you to take
across to the other side. And on the other side,
it's movie night every night. What film are you taking
(49:21):
to show the people of heaven when it is your
movie night, mister Jason rightman.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Well, I think they're going to have to have a cry.
I'm bringing EAT with me you. I'm sorry you. I
hope you're still alive, because there I'm coming for your tears.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Brother, I'm going to be at the gates of Heaven.
Game are they playing? Eat?
Speaker 4 (49:41):
I forget it, but you know ET is about a
journey into the cosmos, and I think maybe it's fitting.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
It's a beautiful film and a beautiful answer. Jason, what
an absolute delight you have been. Would you like to
tell people what to see and look out for and
listen to coming up in the Jason Wrightman world?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
It's really kind I got a movie called Saturday Night
and it is about the opening night of Saturday Night Live.
And I hope they come and enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Go see it at the cinema. You will love it. Jason,
What are your pleasure? This was one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Oh you're very sweet.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Thank you very much. Have a wonderful death. Good day
to you. So that was episode three hundred and twenty.
Head over to the Patreon Patreon dot com for his
nice break Cold Steme for the extra secret chat and
video with Jason, going to break glavistintour dot com for
the final tickets for my stand up shows. Thank you
so much to Jason for giving me his time. Thanks
to Scruby's pip and the distraction pieces of Network. Thanks
(50:39):
to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks to you all
for listening. I hope you're all well. Thanks to iHeartMedia
and Wilfare of Big Money Players Network hosting it. Thanks
Adam Richarster for the graphics and Lisa Laden for the photography.
Come and join me next week for another smashure of
a guest. But that is it for now. I hope
you're all well. In the meantime, have a lovely week
and please be excellent to each others. Backs, back back
(51:20):
by the back, backs, backs on backs, buying back backs
and
Speaker 3 (51:28):
Backs back back back backs and back by back back
back back
Look how it's only films to be buried with. Hello,
and welcome to films to be buried with. My name
is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian, an actor and writer, director,
(00:20):
a fire extinguisher, and I love films. As Frederick Douglass
once said, it is easier to build strong children than
to repair broken men. Start them on inside out and
they will have the maturity they need to whether any
storm coming. Every week i'mte special guest over, tell them
they've died. Then I get them to discuss their life
from films that meant the most of them. Previous guests
include Barry Jenkins, Amber Ruffin, Sharon Stone, Mark Frost, and
(00:42):
even Bed Clambells. But this week it's the brilliant writer,
producer and director and all round legend mister Jason Rightman.
The last three dates of my North American stand up
tour of Second Best Night of Your Life are happening
in Baltimore, Bellingham and Seattle. Get the last tickets available
(01:02):
at Brett goldsteintour dot com. Thank you to everyone who
has come on this tour. What's a fucking time it
has been. Come along to the last three and we'll
have a rite whole time. Head over to the Patreon
at patreon dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein, where you'll
get about twenty minutes of maybe a bit more extra
stuff with Jason, including a secret you get the whole
episode uncut Adfrey and as a video. Check it out
(01:23):
over at patreon dot com Forward slash Brett Goldstein. Jason
Rightman Jason Rightman is one of the all time great directors.
He has made some absolute stone cold masterpieces, including Juno,
Young Adult, Tully Up in the Air. He's worked with
The Genie and Ghostbusters, Frozen Empire, and he's responsible for
the new film Saturday Night about the first show of
(01:44):
Saturday Night Live, which I believe is in cinemas now
and if not in the next week, go and see.
It's fucking brilliant. We had never met before, but we
recorded this on zoom. I loved it so much, so
I think it might be one of my old time
favorite episodes. He was such a treat and I really
think you're gonna love this one. That is for now.
I very much hope you enjoy this episode. Three hundred
and twenty of films to be buried with, Hello and
(02:17):
welcome to films to be buried with. It is me
Brett Colstein, and I'm joined today by a legend, a hero,
a writer, a producer, a director. He has genuinely made
some of the best films of all time. He's a junoer,
He's an Up in the Era, He's a Ghostbusters, He's
(02:38):
a young adulter, He's a labor dayer, He's a men,
women and children, you name it, he's done it. I
can't believe he's here. He's also the first person who
knew quite rightly that James A. Custer was a movie star.
Please welcome to the show. Is the one and only
here he is it, say's a right man.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Of the many times I've listened to you do that,
I never imagine, Oh maybe one day I'll hear him
do that about me. And I am so flattered. And
it is just as fun as I thought it would be.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
That's nice. I am like, truly a massive, massive valigold.
I have the poster of Young Adult on my will
in London, no kidding. I think it's one of the
great underrated classics of all time. That film, I think
it's such a great movie. And Up in the Air
was rightly beloved and I love it. I do not
(03:32):
love I love Tally, I love men, women and children.
You haven't made a bad one.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Oh, I've made bad movies. I'll be the first one
to fight you on that, but I'll tell you why.
Your thoughts on Young Adult mean a lot to me
because it was my fourth movie and I was coming
off of Juno and Up in the Air and I
was in a place where I could really make anything. Yeah,
and whatever weight I had in that moment, I used
to make Young Adult a movie where the hero is
(03:59):
trying to end somebody else's marriage, and people didn't get
it at the time, but I'm really proud of it,
and so when I meet someone who really loves that film,
it's a reminder that it was all worth it.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It's so so good and I'm sure I've talked about
it on this podcast before because there's a moment in
it and I was like, it's so rare to see
people always talk about in cinema in everything you know
this that they always go are they likable enough? Other
characters are likable enough? And I always think it's bullshit.
Doesn't matter, they just have to be competing. And Young
Adult was such an interesting cinema experience where the audience
(04:32):
when she kisses him, half the audience were like yay,
and half the audience were like no, like people genuinely
didn't know how to feel. I was like, this right, right,
yeah cool.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
I think Young Adult is an ugly mirror. It's a
mirror to the ugly parts of ourselves that we don't
want to recognize. And that's something that Diablo and I
think I've always been interested in, is the film screen
is a mirror to the things you were most vulnerable about.
I read that script and I just immediately fell hard
for it.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
It's so good. It's also like a really I think,
a really subtle, excellent portrait of alcoholism in a way
that it isn't an addiction film, you know what I mean,
but it is right. That is a film about an acoholic,
and it's fucking good.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
What a great It's a movie about loneliness. Yeah, and
that's what Up in the Air is about as well.
So you know, when I meet people who like those films,
I have to ask right back, it's how lonely are you?
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Lonely enough? That that's one of my favorite films. So
I was like I feel seen great and it's such
a good film about consequences, you know what I mean,
like the end of it and that when he knocks
on her door and it's like, yeah, this is this
is your life, this is what you have built. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Yeah, it's one thing to theorize about how you think
life is supposed to be lived and then suddenly it's
put right back in your face. I knew that I
wanted to make up in the year when I knew
the ending, and Young Adult was really similar that way,
and they have oddly similar endings, Yeah, they do. It's
two people who are alone at the end. You know,
(06:11):
George is looking up at the big board of destinations
and Charlie's is just staring at the windshield.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah. And I also think there's another thing up in
there that I think you've done a few films to
sit maybe and thank you for smoking, where it's like
it's also a rare thing in like Hollywood films that
like I always think about, say, Mary Poppins is the
most extreme version of it, where Mary Poppins the messages
don't work too hard, like the dad needs to leave
the bank and spend time with the kids. Yeah, that's
(06:38):
usually Hollywood films is like, we shouldn't work, we should
spend time with our families. And what I like about
a lot of your stuff is there's a sort of
they acknowledge the pleasure of work and up in the
air they're arguing over their their amex cards and their
points like the pleasure in work and the spoils of it.
(07:01):
I don't think it's ever done like such a rare
example of going and that bit's also fun. You know.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Well, films are normally moralistic, and I think we just
kind of take it as a given that a film
is supposed to have good moral values and it is
supposed to teach you something. And I found that I
really enjoy movies that actually acknowledge and see the parts
of me that I'm not thrilled with or I think
I'm supposed to be embarrassed of. And look, the truth
(07:27):
is that I feel a lot of the things that
George doesn't up in the air, and I do like
collecting air miles, and I do look filling my life
with the bullshit sometimes, and I do question whether you're
supposed to live the rest of your life with one
human being, and whether you can only love one human being.
And in young adults case, I mean, I'd be lying
if there wasn't a part of me that just didn't
ache for success and ache for fame. And you know,
(07:50):
I mean, I think most people would be lying if
they said that wasn't true for them. And so it's
kind of nice to see a character who unapologetically says
this is who I am, or even if she's lying,
it's such a thin lie.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah. And what about what like young adult you've got
patterns or amazing performance? Yeah? So really, and I wonder,
And I was thinking, you've had him, You've had James
A Paster, you like comedians, and I wonder what you like?
Was pattern without naming anyone else? Was he like the
only choice for that?
Speaker 2 (08:19):
So I do a table read of my scripts before
I go and make them. And it's the kind of
last moment where I make that green light, internal green
light decision of whether this is the thing I need
to make. And we'll sit down on my dining room table,
bind me and we'll read the script. And I asked
Patton to come because he was already a friend, and
read that part and by the end of the table
it was like all right, Well, clearly he's going to
(08:40):
play the role, and he was perfect for it. But
I do love stand ups. I think stand up comedians
have an inner awareness and you know, a sense of
what it's like to be human in a way that
other storytellers don't. There's obviously you're completely exposed as a
stand up when you get on stage, and the best
stand ups are digging deep and they're exposing really rough
(09:03):
sides of themselves for an audience to just shit all over.
And I love that. I love that vulnerability. I love
that sense of humor.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
It's great. And listen, people are going to want to know,
because can you tell us what it was like working
with James A pasta. I've heard his side of it.
He loved it. What is it like?
Speaker 2 (09:23):
I adore Look, I adore James, and you know, from
the moment I saw his special and then I got
step in person, I got to know him as a person.
I listened to his podcast. I have to point out
there is something interesting about the fact that he just
wants to really talk about food. You just want to
talk about movies, but you don't feel like you can
just do that. He's got to have a Genie, you
(09:44):
got to die, Like, I don't know what it is
that you need this membrane the conversation.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Is because I think it's being stand ups just so
you cannot be boring. You cannot be boring. So we're
gonna have to whack a jen. We're in the afterlife.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Keep it unlike your so in coming on your podcast.
At least I know the format. I you know, and
I'm like, I know the bit. I'm really excited about it.
Were a cast. When I went on his I had
never listened before when he did the he when he
showed up out of the lamp, I had no idea
what the fuck he was doing. I was I was soused.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But it's so funny because I've heard his you know,
episode of yours where he talks about being in Ghostbusters
and and I heard him like complain about improvising, as
though like that wasn't his favorite thing to do. But
he came in and he read and and Gil and
I already knew he was the guy. But he came
in and he read and it was just tailored for me.
(10:48):
He just had the exact right sense of humor. You know,
Ghostbusters have always been outsider comedians who are not afraid
of being nerdy and smart, and like that's exactly who
James is and so he's kind of perfect for it.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
Well he's fucking and well I've done. Can I ask
you one more question? Yeah, because you mentioned it before
we started recording, and it was so interesting. I'm working
at Warner Brothers and you grew up on the lot. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
So my father's office was on now it used to
be called the Burbank Studios, and it was both the
Warner Brothers and the Columbia Lot, and my father had
made Ghostbusters for Columbia, and I grew up on that lot.
I grew up walking around. I told you that the
New York Street which was dressed for Blade Runner. My
dad took me to that set when I was a
(11:33):
little kid. I learned to drive a car, driving a
golf cart around that lot no way. And my favorite
thing I used to do was I don't know why
this happened, but they used to share all the call
sheets for all the sound stages around the lot. So
my father's office every morning would get a list of
all the call sheets and I could see who was
shooting on what stage and I would just wander over,
(11:54):
and being ten, eleven, twelve years old, everyone just presumes
I'm the kid of somebody, right, So I just would
walk onto the set, and I remember walking like Flatliners
was made back then, and it runs too and Batman
returns and just all kinds of cool sets, and I
(12:14):
would just wander in and walk around, fucking cool man. Yeah,
do you remember Blue Thunder? This is a weird deep hole.
There was a helicopter movie was starring Roy Scheider from
the early eighties, and that used to be on the
back lot that was just sitting around for years there
as I mean, now, there's a bunch of offices where
they used to have cool things, like there was an
old western town. There was a jungle area, which is
where they shot Creature from the Black Lagoon. So it
(12:38):
really it was like walking around Disneyland.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
That's fucking right. I'm assuming you always loved it, as
in just because you grew up and it was never like, ah,
just this shit. It was always exciting.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Any day that I could convince my father to let
me come with them to work was a good day.
And so I'd sit in the car with them on
the way to work and I'd ask them questions. I
was one of those kids. I'd just sit in the
passenger seat and just pelt them with question. And then
there was so many cool things about going to his office.
First of all, he had like like a revolving craft
service in his office, so there's just lots of available
(13:10):
his chips and candy and all sorts of crappty. He
also had a bunch of toys in his office, because
it was always like there was Ghostbusters toys, and there
was models for all the kinds of things he was
built working on. I feel like the reason why most
of us love that lot is because we grew up
on Bugs Bunny cartoons, and Bugs Bunny was a Warner
Brothers cartoon. So anytime Bugs Bunny would go on the
(13:31):
lot and you'd see him like talk to the security guard,
sneak by to the security guy. He was on the
Warner Brothers lot. So everyone's perception of what a movie
studio is supposed to look like comes from Bugs Bunny.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Very good. Oh, I'm sorry, we've been talking about all
your other things. I saw so your new film Saturday night.
I saw him Saturday. I went to the bank, sold
out screening it played like Gangbusters, which I've never understood
that reference, but I've seen that means good.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good one. That's God's good.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
And I loved it and it's so good, and I
was like, I mean, I could say many things about it,
but what at its base it was almost like a
muppet sharpe is that let's put on It's a film
about let's put on the show. Yeah, and it's so
exciting and it's such a like I think we can
spoil the ending.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
Yeah, Well, the best part about picturing this movie from
the beginning was I could always tell the entire story,
which is it's a movie about the ninety minutes leading
up to the first time anyone ever said live from
New York at Saturday night. And the closing line of
the movie is live from New York at Saturday Night.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
And it's so satisfying when it happens, and it's such
a like it's like a sports movie. It's literally like
a sportsman like yes, because we've been through such a
ride to get there, and it's thrilling and it is
like all the things I like. All the things you're
talking about is about the creative act and bringing these
people together and marhling it and it's so satisfying. And
(14:56):
I wondered about the making of it because it is
pace wise, it's fun, he's stressful for ninety minutes. Yeah,
it's real time and it's moving through corridors, and I wondered,
I don't know how you schedule it. I was curious, like,
did you shoot in order or whether because it's sort
of seemingly one thing, but there's obviously how do you
do it?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
So the actors who signed up for this movie signed
up for an experience, okay, one in which you work
every single day, because the idea was to create a living,
breathing form of eight h the studio where they shoot SNL.
And that started with the set where Jess gone for For
our production designer who did like No Country for Old Man,
he rebuilt the entire eighth ninth floor of Rockefeller Center
(15:38):
down to like the original blueprints. Where was the set
we shot in Atlanta?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Wow, okay, so we built.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's so funny because we were on a on a
lot where Superman had almost every stage, but then we
had one stage that was ours, and we thought we
were the cool kids there and we built the entire
ace and lines floor as an enclosed single set, because
it's not really a movie with ninety scenes. It's a
movie with one scene that's ninety minutes. And all the
(16:06):
lighting was built into the set, all the cabling was
built in the set. There was microphones built into the
set so that there was no reason why you had
to start or stop a scene at any given moment.
You could just keep shooting because there's nothing visible on
set that would let you know where you were. And
we began working with stand ins on what essentially is
the choreography of the movie. It's like a dance movie.
(16:27):
You're choreographing all the movement of there's eighty speaking roles,
and there's eighty background actors and they work. They all
work every single day, and the shots could be three, four,
five minutes long, and the result is to give you
this sense that you just got dropped into nineteen seventy five.
The cameras like a human being with their head on
a swivel, just picking up information as it's coming by.
(16:47):
One of the best ways I can explain it is
the sound work EI. There was days where our mixer,
Steve Morrow, had up to fifty eight audio tracks going simultaneously.
That is to say, he had to bring a second
mixing board or just to handle the amount of tracks
that he's mixing in real time. So there's all the
mics that are built into the set, but then every
speaking role is wearing a mic as well, and the
(17:09):
band is all mics simultaneously, and he's live mixing everything,
so that you're getting like a mix of information all
the time. There's the people who are speaking right in
front of camera, but then there's the second layer, third layer,
fourth layer of characters and they're also talking, and it's
again it's like picking up information in a real place.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Given how it is, can I ask you this? I
am aware there is often when you make a film
seek if there's a budget, you get the chance to
do pickups. You've done an edit and you go, oh,
this is missing, we need to get this. Yeah, time
at this thing. With a film like that, I can't
imagine whether pickups was there anything you redid?
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You just have to shoot the whole thing.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, it is holding in order.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
It's funny. There's a director friend of mine who I
was speaking to right before we went in, and I
was talking about different actors and have you ever worked
with them? And what do they like? And you know,
are they going to be trouble? And at a certain
point he just said, hey, you're making a movie about
the open night of Saturday Night Live, Surrender. And it
was the best advice anyone could have given me, because
it's true. At a certain point, I could choreograph the
(18:07):
living shit out of it. And by the way, we
had we had a whiteboard the way a coach does,
and every morning at eight am we would meet at
home base and I would draw out everybody's movement like
a football play, and I would say, all right, this
is where every actor a draw, the camera, all the extras,
so everyone knew where they were going. But still, even
once everyone knows exactly where they're supposed to be and
(18:27):
we start to work it out, I have to surrender
to the magic. And the magic is what happened when
the molecules start bumping into each other.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
That's fucking good man, congratulations.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Thank you. I mean, that's how Saturny Live has been
for years. It's a it has to surrender to the
fact that it is live. You know, they go live
on air and then what happens happened. And that's the delight.
Half of the delight of watching SNL is knowing not
only the cats but the crew are somehow pulling this
off every single Saturday. And so when in making this film,
(18:57):
we chose to address it the same way.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Jonson.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Oh no, I know what's coming.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
On to you. Something?
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Oh man, hit me?
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Oh god, I can't believe I forgot. We were having
such a nice time. Yeah shit, I'll just say it,
and well, okay, guess we'll do with it.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
It can't be that bad.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Um, I guess it depends. You know, Saturday nights to
come out. You want to enjoy the You've died, You're dead?
Oh come on, I'm sorry. Man. Listen, you left on a.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
High, had plans, I had dreams.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
How did you die?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I thought about this. I'll tell you the moment that
I always think about the possibility of dying. And it's
either when I'm almost done writing a script, or almost
done shooting a film, or almost done editing a movie.
And it's a part of me that is always like,
I can't die now. I need to finish this. No
one's going to be able to take this. Seventy five
percent of a script and makes that sut of it.
(20:02):
And it often happens when I'm sitting in a plane
and I have this moment where I'm just, you know,
thirty forty thousand feet above the earth, and I imagine
a hole just opening up below me and my entire
seat with me and it just falls to the earth.
And I imagine that all that time in the air
thinking about how I was going to finish that script
(20:23):
or finish that movie, and it's never going to be done.
That just scares me the most.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
You and Barry Jenkins, to excellent directors, both die by plane.
Huh makes you think, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
I'll take that. I'll take literally any comparison to Barry Jackets,
even if you're not comparing to my movies. If you're
literally just yeah, you both think you might die that way.
That said, now that you've brought this up, if I
ever get on a plane with Barry, say one of
us has to get off.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
You two are taken. Cause do you worry about death?
Speaker 2 (20:56):
I mean, I don't think there's anything beyond which I
know we're going to talk about later. But you know what, Look,
I'll tell you this, I really didn't believe in a
beyond until I lost my father, and I feel like
I've been visited him by him in ways that at
least put a question in my head?
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Could you tell me one of them? Or is that
too much?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I'll tell you the little ways. Maybe one day when
we meet for a drink, I'll tell you the big one.
But I know it's a shitty tease. I'm excited to hear,
but it's personal. Yeah, I hear him laughing at jokes
that I write. You know, there's these moments where I'm
working on Ghostbusters and I'm writing dialogue for characters he
helped create, and it's strange because I'm thinking, oh, you know,
(21:42):
he's never going to read this, es And now my
Saturday Night LiveScript actually is the last script of mine
and my father ever read. But it's the first movie
of mine that I'll never see. But sometimes I'm writing,
you know, for Winston or for Ray or for venk Men,
and then I'll hear my dad laugh and I'll know
it works or the opposite, and I know it needs
(22:02):
an edit. But yeah, no, I feel like I've been visited.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
Thank you man. Well, listen, there's your proof. There is
a heaven and you'll go in.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I like the assumption that I'm going to heaven.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Well you were, Barry Jenkins, you will end the plane
together it Oh.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
My god, that would suck. We both in a plane
and all of a sudden I see Barry floating up.
I'm like, well, what.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Dude.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
I mean, hey, it makes better movies. But come on,
can I please?
Speaker 1 (22:33):
It's filled with your favorite thing heaven? What's your favorite thing?
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm going to see movies? I mean, my favorite thing
really is just going to see movies. I don't mean
to give such a boring answer, and I'm sure I'm
not the first person to say, but as soon as
I had my driver's license, I would just go to
the movies. And this last year I actually bought a
movie theater with a bunch of other directors, to which
one Yeah, there's a theater in Los Angeles called the Village.
(22:56):
It's my favorite movie theater in the world. My second
favorite is in London is the Prince Charles, because that's
the best audience I've ever seen a movie within my life.
When I was in London shooting, I went to the
Prince Charles as often as I possibly could. If they
had a Mystery Movie. I was there, I never got
to do one of the overnights. I really wanted to
do that. I'm hoping one day to do that. But
(23:17):
there's a sense of community at the Prince Charles Theater.
Yeah that's really important because people talk a lot about
picture and sound. They go on and on about it
as though that is the reason to see a movie
in the movie theaters. And yeah, sure, that's great. It's
great to see a movie with on a big screen
with big sound. But the reason I go to the
movies is community. And when I was at the Prince Charles,
I felt a sense of community. Whether we were seeing
(23:39):
you know, Alien or Scooby Doo, you know, or Akira,
Like it just didn't matter. I felt like I was
with my people and we laughed again, we cry together,
and it makes you feel less alone speaking of loneliness,
and so I love the movies.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Well, you tell you what, you're in the right place.
I'll tell you that they're very happy to say that.
Screamings everywhere. Guys, it's your community. They're so happy to
see you and they want to talk about your life.
But they want to talk about it. Died earlier. You've
been working too much. And they first thing they ask is,
(24:17):
where's the first film you remember seeing?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Jason right, Oh my god, you're you You're going to know.
The answer to this already is Ghostbusters?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Is it? Yeah? Is it? Yeah? How old were you?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
I'm six years old?
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Six.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I was on the set and I remember seeing it,
and it's scared the living crap out of me. The
library ghost and the terror Dog and Elmer Bernstein's music,
and like it didn't even matter that I had seen
them make it, so I'd already seen how they actually
made this movie. So it's not as though I was unaware.
But I saw it in different countries, you know, Like
(24:53):
I saw that movie in la and New York and
in Paris, and I went with my dad around the
world with it, and it ever lost its juice. I
mean I used to wake up thinking the tear dog
was underneath my bed.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
What a cool what a cool life? Are you an
only child? But do you have I got two sisters?
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Okay, I got my so Catherine, my younger sister, has
a show on Netflix called Working Moms, which is like
a hit all around the world. They have seven seasons.
It crushes, it kills uh so when when I go
out with Katherine, everyone recognizes her. And then I got
a little sister who very different life, married a guy
in the Navy and a Navy corman and lived on
(25:33):
base and uh lives down in San Diego. Now, but
we all, we all have the same sense of humor.
We all get along.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
I love it. What is the film that made you
cry the most? Are you a crier? You're all right?
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Movie that made me cry?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (25:46):
So I got I got a I got a few
here for cry and I know you only want one.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
But I'm going to make exceptions for you.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
It's very kind of you. I mean, stand by Me
kills me every time. Breaking Away he kills me every time. Beginners,
which is a film that I found particularly amongst men
of my generation. Beginners rocks that world. But the one
that I'm gonna go with is a Swedish film called Together,
a director named Lucas Moodyson. And have you ever seen it?
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah? He because he made that, it's that lovely film.
And then he made a very dark film.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yes, and he made Lylia Forever exactly so, also brilliant
but really rough.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Yeah, so Together.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
I remember reading this Roger Eaedbert piece, and he was
talking about Lucas Moodyson as one of the most important
living directors, and I thought, I don't even know who
this guy is. I just felt embarrassed, and I immediately went
and watched his films and they're all fantastic. I had
a film called We're the Best recently that was really great.
But I had a film called I Am Love, which
is fantastic, Lily Forever, which is a masterpiece. But Together
(26:50):
is unlike any movie I've ever seen. It really introduces
you to a character that you think is speaking of
unredeemable characters. Like you said earlier, you meet a guy
in that movie this is no coming back, And by
the end of this movie, you're just in love with
all these people. You could have never imagined coalescing the
way they did. They all live in like a commune
(27:10):
in Stockholm, so they are a commune living in living
in a townhouse in Stockholm. And it's a hard movie
to find. So I feel bad talking about a movie
where s here I am talking about how great it
is and any listeners being like, oh great, I'm gonna
screaming them, yeah, good luck. But it's but it's brilliant.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
Great, great, great. What about being scared? Other than Ghostbusters?
What's the film that scared you the most? Do you
like it?
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Michael Hannike's Funny Games scared the but Jesus out of me,
and less so because of the jump scares, because you know,
like in a pure way, I think the scariest films
I've ever seen are the ones you'd expect, like, you know,
the shining. But there's something about Funny Games where the
whole conceit is that there are no rules that you know.
Hannikey's point of view seems to be in almost all
(27:58):
of us films, that these rules that we think we
live by, the reason why you don't just punch people
in the face, the reason why you're not just an
asshole to people, there is no there is no reason
why we abiding by societal rules. And in Funny Games,
he's bending the way that we interact and there's a
cruelty to it that is nasty. It's a mean film. Yes,
(28:20):
I can't remember what movie it is. He used to
be a movie that talked about baseball, and I would say,
to be a picture, you got to be mean. And
I feel like, you know, to make funny games. You
got to be mean. You gotta be a mean director.
You have to be cruel to the audience. Yeah, that's interesting.
A lot of his films are mean. He's a mean director,
which I think is really brave.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yeah, it's something I really admire. Like, I don't think
I could be that mean to the audience. And I'm
and I'm kind of mean to the audience, Like I
my movies have sad endings and then they have unrepentant characters.
But I'm not touching Anikey. I mean, Anniky leaves you
out in the coult.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I think what's interesting about what like you young don't
I'm trying to say American, is that it's it is
bad people, but you love them. You the film like that. Yeah,
I love the characters and that right, it's more interesting
to me. That seems big. It's easy to judge people
and you don't. I think that's so you think, well, yeah, no.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
I actually don't. I don't tend to believe in good
or evil. I don't believe in evil people. And I
think there's a again, there's a general conceit in a
lot of films that there's people who are good and
there's people and evil, and I just don't.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
I just don't.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It's why I struggle with Westerns. I just don't believe
in the white hat and the black hat. I'll tell
you I do have a funny Michael Hannikey story I
went to. I was at a film festival in the
Czech Republic called carl Avari, and they were playing a
handicky film called The Piano Teacher, The Piano Lesson and
great movie. I any went Best Actor and Actress I
(29:56):
can that year. But at this film festival, all the
movies played in like old ballrooms that were convicted converted
into movie theaters, and they didn't have subtitles. Rather, you
would get a headset as you walked into the movie theater,
and then in the back there were little booths like
the un where they hire like college students who knew
lots of languages to live translate the movie. So I
(30:17):
got this headset on. I click it in and I
start watching the Handikee film and this is a filthy movie,
and and there's some college girl translating the movie and
she's just getting embarrassed and the movie's really heavy, but
she's just giggling because she's afraid to translate the stuff
that's happening on screen. So I'm watching these movies and
(30:37):
this intense scenes are happening, and then you know, this
girl in my ears, like I want to lick your assess.
Speaker 3 (30:49):
The best way to watch on Michael Hannecke film, that's fine,
she just going You get it, you get it, you know,
you know what's happening because you, guys, what is the
film that you love?
Speaker 1 (31:03):
It is not critically acclaimed, most people don't even like it,
but you love it unconditionally.
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I'm not sure if this film counts, but I love
a film called Pump Up the Volume with Christian Slater
from the early nineties. I'm not sure if anyone thinks
highly of it, but I love that movie. Like, I
think that's a profoundly good movie about being a teenager
and Christian Slater's phenomenal in it. And I think it
(31:28):
made me want to be a DJ, Like it made
me want to like have my own pirate radio station
where I could just share my thoughts secretly.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
That's a fucking great shot. That's a perfect shot. Not
critically acclaimed, but it worked. Do you have you watched
it recently? Like how much is it? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Oh yeah, I have a movie night every Sunday at
my house. Ay Caster's been doing. It's been going back
over ten years, and Sunday's always made me depressed. Sunday's
were always really hard for me, and I was looking
for a solution for Sundays and I just started having
people over to my house on Sunday to watch movies,
and so every Sunday night, I have a movie night.
We started with like really heavy stuff, but at one
point we got to pump up the volume and it
(32:05):
played great. Kill That's great.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Okay. Well, then the next question is a film that
you used to love that you've watched recently, maybe on
a Sunday, and you've got Oh. I feel very differently
about this now.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
I feel really nervous to say this because I'm sure
people will disagree with me. But a film that I
loved that I thought was brilliantly funny and is clearly
groundbreaking I went to see with some friends a few
years ago and it did not make me laugh. And
that film is the Zuker Brothers film Airplane.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I knew you were going to say it.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And trust me, I feel a little red dot on
my head, just saying that out loud. But it was
really hard to watch that movie. Now, when's the last
time you watch Airplane?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I am watching a long time. Is it that it's dated?
Is it like offensive? Or is it that it's just
not funny.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
I don't really get offended by movies, Like I feel
like movies have a time and place and you know,
and I can watch a movie enjoy it for what
it is. It just didn't hit me the way I
did when I was a kid. When I was a kid,
I thought it was really funny and irreverent and kind
of groundbreaking. Like I just like I could feel it
because it was challenging my thoughts on what a movie
could be. And it was hard to watch.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
You and Brendane Brown, You and Brendan Brown, listen, You're
in good company at Barry Jenkins and Brene Brown.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Oh also didn't like Airplane?
Speaker 1 (33:20):
How was her worst film? What is the film that
means the most to you? The film is good, but
the experience you had seeing it always special to you.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
This is a strange one. So I got to start
directing commercials right out of college. I was really lucky.
I started making short films in college, they started playing
film festivals and it became a professional commercial director right
out of school. I got an early commercial that shot
in London. It was the first time I got to
actually like live out there, and it was really like
I remember, I lived at the Sanderson Hotel for a month,
(33:54):
which was just it was it was still like really
cool and new. It's in uh it's above Oxford Street
in Soho, and you know, it was a really trippy
hotel that had a twenty four hour DJ before like
it feels like every hotel now has a twenty four
hour DJ. And I was out there making this commercial
for Honda, working with Widen Kennedy, which which was such
(34:17):
a badass agency. And I went to every movie theater
in the area when I was living at Soho. I
think I went to every single movie theater that exists
out there that it was walking distance. And I got
to a point where I was running out of movies
because I was just seeing movies every single day. And
I went into a screen of a movie and I
didn't know what the hell it was and never heard
of it, and it was Paul Greengrass's Bloody Sunday.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Oh wow.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And you know, perhaps I'm n educated. I really didn't
know much about the events of A Bloody Sunday, and
it was a filmmaking style that I feel like I
hadn't seen before, where it was so authentically documentary in
its style and so well done that it immediately, I mean,
it just kind of broke me as a director because
I just kept on thinking, how the hell did you
(34:57):
do this? It felt like a magic trick that I
couldn't puzzle out out yeah, and was simultaneously really moving
and put me on kind of a life's journey of
chasing how do you recreate reality? Like how do you
actually make it feel like you're watching something genuine? And
I think up until then, I thought the primary goal
of a director was to do something cool, you know,
like come up with a cool shot, put it to
(35:19):
cool music, like I you know, I grew up on
Quentin Tarantino, and suddenly I watched this Paul green Grass
film and you know, I'm sure anyone listening right now
would say, yeah, why don't you just go look at
some nineteen sixties French and Italian films and lend very
day is And yeah, fine. I didn't go to film school,
but that Paul Grengrass movie showed me and seeing it
(35:40):
in London was particularly special.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Well, the fucking great as it well in Saturday Night?
I like you. You touched it on film, right, it
looks real.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yeah, it was shot from sixteen, which I presume is
what he shot on And I was really just trying
to make a comedic bloody Sunday and I think I
finally found the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (35:57):
I think you did it. I really think it does
feel everything you said. It does feel chaotic. It feels
genuinely chaotic, and yeah, in a good way anyway. Yeah,
what is the film you most relate to?
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Hal Ashby's Shampoo?
Speaker 1 (36:11):
Are you wearing Beaty?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
No? But what I love about that movie is that
there I wish I was warn baby. There are five
access points to that film. There's three women and two
men who are kind of in a love pentagon and
they're discussing the idea of what whether one person can
fulfill everything you need in life. And it's a movie
about five people with five different dreams, and it's it's
(36:35):
correctly set in Los Angeles, which is a city where
people show up it too, because they're chasing some kind
of dream and it's about real politics, it's about sexual politics.
And look, a lot of takes place in Beverly Hills,
where I grew up. And I think people think of
Beverly Hills as a tourist destination, but it's also where
I grew up, you know, and you know is where
(36:55):
I went to the grocery store and stuff. And that movie,
that movie portray raised five different people who want things
and they're not all good things, but it never judges them.
And frankly, the image of Warren standing out on you know,
the edge of Mulholland at the end, looking into the distance,
I mean that that's the ending of Up in the Air.
I mean Up in the Air is a love letter
(37:16):
to shampoo.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Wow, yeah it is, I see that. Speaking of one baby,
What's the sexiest thrill You've ever seen?
Speaker 3 (37:25):
Man?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I knew this one was coming and I thought a
lot about it. It's a really tricky one because there's
two far there's two kinds of sexy movies. Right, I
think the first thing that pops in your head and
you're like, what's sexiest movie you've ever seen? Is like
a movie starring the sexiest person? Right and right, like
the first thing in your head is like, all right, well,
I'm really attractive so and so and so anything they're
(37:47):
in that is clearly the sexiest movie. But then there's
a movie where the sexuality is not just how good
he or she looks, it's there's a sexuality to the film.
And like, the first one that comes to mind is
Mike Go Closer, Like there's an honesty in the sexual
relationships in that movie that I think that turns me on.
And then I got a weird one. Did you see
(38:09):
the Polish movie Cold War black and white film?
Speaker 1 (38:13):
I got the pist through that as well. I have
the pist of Cold War and young adult War.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Cold War is one of the best movies of this century.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
It's a great expertly.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Done and it's also kind of sexy because it's really
the relationship is so real, and their approach to love
and affairs and breakup and weird desire and being really
honest about what you want and the fact that there
is like there's there's something transactional about love that people
(38:46):
are afraid to talk about whether and I'm not talking
about just financially transactional. Transactional, it's like it's transactional on
ten levels, and we don't just come together because we're
magnets for each other. And I like that cold word
openly kind of gets into.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
That fucking great film. And it's also I've just realized something.
But it's also like an epic film that's ninety minutes
and yeah does everything.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
And every scene is one shot.
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Fuck, it's a great movie.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
It's an intimidatingly good film. I mean, that's the kind
of movie you watch and go, well, maybe I won't
make movies like it's just like, it's the best film
has already been made. Why am I trying?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
Yeah? Wow? And what about we have a subcategory traveling
by worrying? Why don't a film you found a rousing
you weren't sure? You shit?
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Oh my god. I mean here's the one. Here's where
I really out myself. It's not the whole movie. It's
a scene. Can I if you're gonna have a subcategory,
can I you've been sub subcategory?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Subcategory. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
There's a scene in Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master where
Amy Adams is giving Philip sum Or Hoffman a hand job.
You remember this. They're in the bathroom and he's obviously
in control of the entire movie, and then she sets
him straight and she jerks him off while telling him
exactly who's in control. And that's one of the hardest
scenes I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Great answer. Sorry, no, nothing to a budotize about. I think.
I think that's excellent, brilliant, not being wrong with it.
No notes, what's what is objectively the greatest film of
all time. It might not be your favorite, but it
is the pinnacle of cinema.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
I fear I'm giving an answer that's been said a lot.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Eat. No, it hasn't been said in a long time,
and it's untouchable. Yeah. I can't watch it, but you're right.
Why because it makes me cry too much and I
can't handle those feelings. I find it sort of too devastating. Eat.
It destroyed me. I don't think I've been the same since.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
What's your relationship like with your dad? Come on, man,
let's go.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Come on.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
I'm opening up my heart here to you. I'm giving
you anything.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Yeah, but I wouldn't do this podcast. You're bad to
do it. Yeah, I love I love him very much. Yeah,
and he took us to I have talked about this
years ago in this podcast. But he took us to
et having seen it, you know, he took me and
my sister like the second time, he'd already seen it,
and he was like, you got to see this. And
I remember and I was so young, and I remember
(41:21):
being like just crying and crying. And I think I
even said to him, why have you brought us to this?
Because I'm so devastated. He was like, what are you
putting me through? Yeah, it's so sad. It is amazing.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
The economy of storytelling is perfect. The music, it's maybe
the best original score of all time. It's a movie
about the deep need for love parenting. I mean, every
choice is perfect on it.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah, and there's a thing I talked about that I
love in hugely an earlier Spielberg. I don't know how
much he does it now, but it's your documentary thing.
There's like the scenes of them having dinner early on
in the film where it feels improvised. It feels so real,
Ye all that.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Ye, them eating pizza. It's interesting. I feel like every
director of my age now attempts to do a scene
of a family and they're always singing in a kitchen
booth with that light that's hovering like this far, you know,
just like you know, just two feet off the table,
and we're all referencing this same dinner scene. I'd like,
(42:25):
for instance, in my life, I've never been to someone's
house who has a booth in their kitchen, But in
movies you see it a lot. And it's because we
all saw them, you know, ordering the pizza, and like
the whole thing, we're all referencing the same thing.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
That's true. It's an amazing film. It is an amazing film.
I can't bear it, but it is amazing. What is
the film you could or have watched the most over
and over again?
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Michael Winterbottom's twenty four Hour Party People.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Really, that's a great movie.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
There's the first movie in my life that I watch
and then the moment it ended, I literally just restarted
the film. It's a movie that I show my cast
on many of the movies before we go to make it.
As just kind of talking about performance. I think it's
absolutely extraordinary.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Because of how naturally is well.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
It's it's both right because because there's extreme naturalism on
the on the verge of documentary happening, and then simultaneously
there's real comedic performance. I mean like like people obviously
brilliant comedians who are working with a genuine command of
what is funny and how to be funny and how
to do character work. So it's both things happening fascinating.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
I love Michael Winchbot, I love how.
Speaker 2 (43:39):
Yeah, and nothing quite touches that. Like his work is
great in general, but his ability to make a love
letter about a city perfectly like, I don't know another
love letter to a city as good as twenty four hour.
Part of People is to Manchester. It's the best movie
about musical history where you watch the transition from punk
to new wave in this naturalistic way where it all
(44:01):
makes sense. It's devastating when you know to the end
of joy division. It's also delightful. Its main character is
completely unredeemable, and it breaks the fourth wall in a
way that no movie you've ever seen breaks the fourth wall,
because because Steve Coogan's not only addressing camera but talking
(44:23):
about where we are in the movie at that moment
and referencing people in the movie who are played by themselves,
and it's sense of itself. It is the definition of meta,
and yet it is still completely deeply evolving. It's not
broken into three acts, it's broken into different It's it's
an exceptional film.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Good answer, Good answer. Listen. We don't like to be negative,
so we do it quick. What's the worst film you've
ever seen? I don't think I can answer this question,
and I do owt to me a dick. I know
I respect you for it. It was a test.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Have you ever heard Patton Oswald's bit about Deathbed, the
Bet that Eats be He has an old stand up
routine and he's talking about the movie Deathbed, The Bed
that Eats People, which I think is you know, you know,
you know, it's known as the worst movie ever made.
I don't know what it was, rotten tomato score is.
But he talks about the crew that made Deathbed, the
Bed that Eats People. He talks about the guy from
(45:17):
Crafty who woke up at four am to just brew
the coffee so that the crew had the energy to
make death Bed the Bed that Eat People. Or the
carpenter who threw out his arm, putting it nails into
the death bed and as a result never taught his
son to throw a ball, and the son hates him
for the rest of his life, Like you know, to
(45:39):
make a movie is an extraordinary sacrifice, Like as a director,
you are convincing people to join you on a one
year journey where they sacrifice their loved ones, their time.
The other thing they could have worked on that was
undoubtedly going to be better. And so it's really hard
to just point out a film and be like, that
film's awful. The only reason I can point to a
film and say it's awful is when I go, there
(46:00):
is no good reason that movie was made. It was
not made by anyone who had anything to say or
wanted to make it. It was simply a studio just
shoving money down people's throats. So I guess I would
potentially point to one of those films.
Speaker 1 (46:12):
I respect you for it, and you're right. What is You?
Speaker 2 (46:16):
Will still ask this question of your next guest.
Speaker 1 (46:19):
I don't know why it's still in the list. I
feel bad every time it comes up. What is your
your You made comedies, you're in comedy. What's the film
that made you laugh the most?
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I saw American Psycho by Mary Herron at its premiere
at the Sundance Film Festival. Wow, And I remember I
was already fan of you know, who shot Andy Warhol
and sitting in the Eccles Theater with or a thousand
people and nobody got the joke, and I was cackling.
I just could not stop laughing at that movie. I
(46:49):
loved how dark it was and menacing unrepented hero and
that movie delights me. Yeah, I think it's it's it's
funny in a way I wouldn't even know.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
It is funny. Yeah, great answer, Jason Ryman. God, you've
been a pleasure. My god, I've enjoyed this. However. Yeah,
when you went to catch a plane and you were
walking to your seat and Barry Jenkins saw you coming
down the island, he went and he said, if you'll
excuse me, I don't like the feel of this, and
(47:23):
he got up, very where are you going? And he
passed you in. He went a big fan of your work,
but he was loving and I have so many questions. Okay,
he went by so flight and he gets off and
you sit down like that was weird. And the plane
takes off and you decide to watch a film, and
you watch Michael Hanneka film and you're like, well, I
(47:47):
guess maybe everything's going to be Okay. I'm watching the
plane's flying and you you notice there's a little sort
of sort of rattle just by your feet, and you're like,
why is that? And you you reached down, like where
is that? And you seel like a little like a
little rattle with your foot and you press your foot down.
Where's that? Press harder and the bottom falls out just
(48:10):
where your seat is, and your seat falls through the
plane and you get picked up by the When you spin,
the spin spin like sundry bog and gravity. Gravity is
coming and you spin and spin and spin and spin,
and you head towards the ground. And Barry Jenkins sat
there with a nice espresso. You finish, and he goes,
(48:37):
fucking hell, my instincts were right. And I'm walking past
with a coffin, you know what. I'm like. I'm like,
all right, Barry, how's it going. He says, yeah, I'm
late for a meeting I was supposed to meet on
a plane, but I think it's for the best. And
I goes, that is Jason. He goes, yeahs yeah, and
I go fucking He give me a hand, Barry, and
the two of us try and get but you're attached
(48:59):
to your see the bits of the plane are still
with you? Is a fucking recommender to dig you out?
Dig you out anyway, we end up chopping you up
into bits, you know what we like, we end up
putting you in the coffin. There's only enough room now
in this coffin, it's rand. There's only enough room to
slip one DVD into the side for you to take
across to the other side. And on the other side,
it's movie night every night. What film are you taking
(49:21):
to show the people of heaven when it is your
movie night, mister Jason rightman.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Well, I think they're going to have to have a cry.
I'm bringing EAT with me you. I'm sorry you. I
hope you're still alive, because there I'm coming for your tears.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Brother, I'm going to be at the gates of Heaven.
Game are they playing? Eat?
Speaker 4 (49:41):
I forget it, but you know ET is about a
journey into the cosmos, and I think maybe it's fitting.
Speaker 1 (49:53):
It's a beautiful film and a beautiful answer. Jason, what
an absolute delight you have been. Would you like to
tell people what to see and look out for and
listen to coming up in the Jason Wrightman world?
Speaker 2 (50:04):
It's really kind I got a movie called Saturday Night
and it is about the opening night of Saturday Night Live.
And I hope they come and enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Go see it at the cinema. You will love it. Jason,
What are your pleasure? This was one of my favorites.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
Oh you're very sweet.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Thank you very much. Have a wonderful death. Good day
to you. So that was episode three hundred and twenty.
Head over to the Patreon Patreon dot com for his
nice break Cold Steme for the extra secret chat and
video with Jason, going to break glavistintour dot com for
the final tickets for my stand up shows. Thank you
so much to Jason for giving me his time. Thanks
to Scruby's pip and the distraction pieces of Network. Thanks
(50:39):
to Buddy Peace for producing it. Thanks to you all
for listening. I hope you're all well. Thanks to iHeartMedia
and Wilfare of Big Money Players Network hosting it. Thanks
Adam Richarster for the graphics and Lisa Laden for the photography.
Come and join me next week for another smashure of
a guest. But that is it for now. I hope
you're all well. In the meantime, have a lovely week
and please be excellent to each others. Backs, back back
(51:20):
by the back, backs, backs on backs, buying back backs
and
Speaker 3 (51:28):
Backs back back back backs and back by back back
back back
Host
Brett Goldstein
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