April 30, 2025 • 63 mins
LOOK OUT! It’s only Films To Be Buried With! A REWIND CLASSIC!
Join your host Brett Goldstein as he talks life, death, love and the universe with showrunner, screenwriter, producer, comic, author and more JUDD APATOW!
Below will be the original writeup for this episode which originally aired on 3th March 2022. It's me on the intro/outro (your producer Buddy Peace), so don't be alarmed. I mean you no shock or surprise. A great episode on all counts! Have fun.
–––––––––––––––––––––––––
Judd is an unstoppable force behind a huge amount of cinematic and streaming greatness over the past decades, and you will surely know his work even if you are yet to be acquainted with the man himself. Superbad, The 40 Year Old Virgin, Bridesmaids, and so many more, Judd’s had a part to play in it all. So you can expect a deep, anecdote filled and wisdom topped banger of an episode right here, friends - and just have a quick glance over on IMDB to knowledge yourself before listening - the list is strong… Tons to enjoy as you’ll soon find out, so indulge!
Judd's book 'Sicker In The Head'
––––––––––
SUPERBOB (Brett's 2015 feature film)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look out.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
It's only films to be buried with rewind Classic. Hello,
(00:48):
dearest films to be buried with crew. My name is
Buddy Peace. I am a producer and editor, a DJ
and music maker, a delicate blend of librarian and horder
and for intro and outr purposes and temporary standing in
for your regular host and proud creator of this podcast,
mister Brett Goldstein, as Octavia Butler once said, there is
nothing new under the sun, but there are new sons.
(01:10):
There are also new moons, but I never really got
on board with the whole Twilight saga. Octavia. That is
absolutely fine. We can't love everything all the time. It
would be exhausting. Every week brettonvites a guest on he
tells them they've died, and then talks to them about
their life through the medium of film. However, this week
we are revisiting an earlier episode of the podcast while
Brett recharges the podcast batteries and retreats to the fortress
(01:33):
of Solitude for a moment or two in this bridge
between the seasons. This Rewine Classic is from March third,
twenty twenty two, originally episode one hundred and eighty eight.
Featuring screenwriter, producer, comic and dare i say, inventor of
the podcast, Chad Appertel, who you will know from his
involvement in such films as Knocked Up, The King of
Staten Island the forty year old version, and show friend
(01:55):
Pete Holmes is show crashing, or as Pete sometimes refers
to it, crushes. Let me take this opportunity to also
remind you that Brett has a Patreon page for the podcast,
upon which you get a bonus section on every podcast
with a secret from each guest, more questions, and a
video of each episode which looks very nice and very fresh.
So if you're of a supporting nature and feel like
(02:17):
some extras from the show, you'll find them all there.
So that is it for now. Let's get you settled
in for a wonderful episode with the illustrious Judd Apatoo.
Catch you at the end for a quick sign off
from me. But for now, please enjoy this flashback to
episode one hundred and eighty eight for Films to be
Buried With.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Hello, and welcome to Films to be Buried With. It
is I Brett Goldstein, and I am joined today by
a writer, a director, a producer, a documentarian, a book man,
a stand up a Netflix special, a changer of the gamer,
(03:03):
a lover, a fighter, a husband, a father, and one
of the most influential men in American comedy. Please welcome
to the show. Can't believe it's here? Could you believe
it's here? He's really here? Please welcome. It's mister Jan Abatau.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Whoa thank you that I maybe you feel nice? I
feel nice now.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, listen, I'm grateful you're doing this. Thank you for
your time. I actually was making notes before this, and
you're sort of one of the few people I've had
on where I'm kind of annoyed because there's so much
in your life and career that I want to talk about,
and I know there's a limited amount of time, and
so it's literally like I'm having to pick, like the bit,
what's the bit I can ask you about? Because you've
(03:47):
done it all, and you've done significant things a number
of times, I don't know how that feels for you
from a moment by moment basis. Do you just feel like, oh,
nothing's happened, I'm just just a guy, and I.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I feel like they have enough for the immemorial reel. Yeah, yes,
that's how I look at it like it's a good montage.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
It's a good montage.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And so really that's all you care about in life,
is like when they cut to the montage, do you
have the goods? You know that is a clip back
of a montage, right, you go to the chess whack
shot and then you go to the me bombing on
evening at the improv. You know, there's all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Fuck. Well, so you and I met at Largo doing
a gig. I was very lucky to do a gig
with Pete Times and you were on and I mean,
can we talk about stand up for a bit, because yes, please,
with my interested in it. You have just written You're
about to release a new book, Sicker in the Head.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yes, it's uh interviews with comedians, which is what I
did when I was a kid, just because I wanted
to meet comedians. It was just an excuse to get
near them, just to ask them how they do it.
So the first book was maybe half and half interviews
I did when I was fifteen and new ones, and
this one is all new ones except John Candy from
nineteen eighty four. The funny thing is for the new one,
(05:09):
I did most of it during the pandemic, so I
realized that everyone was home, so no one could say
no to me because it's for charity. It goes to
a two six. It's free tutoring and literacy charity. So
when you call someone and you know their home, you
know their board, and it's for charity, they can't say no.
And then the interviews were kind of intense and emotional
(05:29):
because everyone was sitting home.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Thinking about their lives and their journeys.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So I was able to get people that normally probably
couldn't get, like Lin Manuel, Miranda and Letterman.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I mean, so many cool people.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Mindy Kaling did it, and Nathan Fielder who you don't
hear talk a lot about how he does that, and
Sasha Baron Cohen and just tons of people. So I'm
psyched that it's out because the first one was the
book I wish someone wrote when I was a kid.
It didn't exist, and so I've seen with Sick in
the Head, a lot of people really went through it
with a highlighter.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
And it helped them the way doing the interviews helped me.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
What do you think it is? I was suddenly when
I was reading it. I got a chance to read
some of it, and it's brilliant like the other one.
But I was suddenly occurred to me. I was like,
why does this work so well in print when they're interviews?
Like what you know? You could equally, I guess release
the audio as a package or whatever. But so satisfying
to read these things. Do you have a theory on that?
(06:24):
I don't actually know why that is.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I don't. Okay, somebody was making fun of me.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
They're like, so, jud this is like a podcast written down.
But when I did him as a kid, I used
to joke it's almost like I was trying to invent
the podcast. Yeah, because it's what I wanted. I wanted
a long form interview with Seinfeld. If you love Seinfeld
in nineteen eighty three, there was no hour interview with
Jerry where he talked about how he did it.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So I did it for the radio, and that's the
thing that I wanted.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
When you write it down, I think they work because
I'm sharing my life in the conversation. It's not just
me asking questions, and it's also one creative person asking
another creative person how they do it, and we're both
you know, some of it is inside baseball of comedy,
but a lot of it is emotional and.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Why do we want to be funny?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Which I'm always fascinated by, you know, what leads us
to feel like.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
This is how we want to process the world.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
When we first spike, you were doing a bit of
stand up, but you were doing more sort of Q
and a chat, and you said to me, if it's
like I had to share this. I asked you if
you were planning a new special of what you were
working on a stand up and you said, I can't
find you say if you don't mind.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, well, well, I said, the pandemic made me confused
about my stand up point of view because I'm not
sure if I'm sad or I'm angry or cynical or hopeful.
I'm all over the place every day, so I can't
figure out my stance. And I was kind of embarrassed
to try to just do what I was in the
(07:58):
middle of when the pandemics started, which is very domestic
about my life and family and stories from show business,
and it all felt kind of stupid. I'm slowly trying
to see it if it's okay to you know, to
just just tell a funny story about someone that I
bumped into, or or something that's happening with my kids
moving out of the house and empty nesting. But it
(08:21):
all felt so unimportant. Now that's just in my head.
I watch everyone else like you and Pete Holmes. They're
crushing it. They're great. No one is having the mental
issue I'm having. But I'm about to host the Director's
Guild Awards, so I have to do stand up at
a monologue only in front of Spielberg, so there's no
pressure to do stand up in front of Spike Lee
(08:42):
and Steven Spielberg and Jane Campion.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
So now I have to get my shit together. And
so I've been going.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Out the stage doing like a DJ Awards monologue at
comedy clubs. So I have to say to the God,
I know you're not directors and you may not understand
or care about any of this, but I'm going to
treat you all like you are two hundred directors. And
it's gone pretty well so far. I'm gaining confidence by
the day.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Is that that date in the diary, Is that something
that's like a low level of anxiety that is residing
in your brain at all times, or is it like
that I'll be fine when I get to it.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I think I would be very nervous if I hadn't
done it a couple of times. This is the third
time I've done it, so I have a sense of
the crowd, and I think they're just happy that the
show doesn't.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Suck, is the truth, you know.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So for someone who's one of them to get up
and talk about what it's like to direct, what it's
like to direct during the pandemic, and all the weird
things about, you know, having to communicate so people with
a mask on you. I mean, you've been through this.
It's everything. Adam Sandler said to me. Shooting a movie
during the pandemic basically removes every aspect of shooting that
was fun. You can't like kidbits with people and chad.
(09:55):
You know, you can't have dinner afterwards, you know when
you make it. We made a movie called The Bubble
that's gonna be Netflix, and it was about the horrors
of this time and shooting a movie during the pandemic.
So in the movie, they're trying to shoot a dinosaur
action movie and it's a bunch of people stuck in
a house in a hotel in London, and the and
the studios pressuring them to finish this dinosaur movie. And
(10:18):
it's about the isolation, how everyone loses their mind.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
So we've all lived that.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I just I lived at so much that I had
to make a movie about it. You know, I was
having such a meltdown. I'm like, I guess I should
make a movie about what this feels like right now.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah. Can I ask with you, given that you you've
sort of done all the all the things you've done,
the writing, in the stand up, the acting, that if
you've done acting, have you.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I've done small things.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I'm not very proud of my abilities in that arena,
but when called upon, sometimes I will hurt someone's project
by making an attempt.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, but you do other things. And you and I
also King of Staten Island, which I fucking loved it.
It's a really beautiful film. I guess my question is,
do you know what the thing that takes you to
the next thing is?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Is it an emotional connection to something, as in when
you're like, I'm going to produce this thing, I'm going
to direct this thing, I'm going to stand up this thing, Like,
do you know what the difference is for you that
draws you in whatever role it is.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Well, sometimes it's just a love for comedy and certain
comedy challenges, like you know, hosting an award show with
all the celebrities. There is the fantasy of every kid
who loves comedy. So I'm never gonna get asked to
host the Academy Awards, but I'll get like the Producer's
Guild or the DJA, so it's like a mini version.
And you know what, no one sees it. I don't
(11:38):
let them even stream it anywhere, so I get to
do that. But a lot of times I find after
the fact I realize I made something because I was
trying to work something out in my own mind. So
I was attracted to talk about marriage because I was
trying to figure something out. Or I wanted to talk
about death and mortality and cancer, and so I wrote
(12:01):
Funny People. But I'm not exactly sure the specifics of
it till almost a few years later when I watch
it and go, oh, that's what I was working out.
I never realized till later that that's what I was
working out. Even the King of Staten Island, and I'm
attracted so many to so many aspects of what Pete's
story is, and I was very interested in firefighters and
(12:24):
the idea of sacrifice.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
That there were people that weren't like me.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
They were an egomaniacs looking to make people laugh and
have a showbiz life. They're just willing to risk their
lives to help other people. And I thought, that doesn't
seem like what I would ever write about, so that
should be where I should go. I'm interested in learning
about that. But then later I realized that I was
also dealing with divorce and step parents and feelings I
(12:51):
had as a kid, adjusting trying to get along with people,
and that there were aspects that were very personal for me.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
In terms of like, I guess this is a question
of ego, I suppose, but there's a difference between you've
done lots of things where you have helped comedians where
they're front and stage, where you've made them stars, where
you've and I assume you have lots of joy in that,
and then there's things where you do which is more
about you specifically, or more you've written directed it. You've again,
are you happy in all of those positions or do
(13:20):
you ever find yourself being I don't know jealous or like.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I want to be doing that, I want to be Pete. Yeah,
I definitely certainly have a level deep in me that
goes you never became Bill Murray, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I think that we all had that fantasy as a kid.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
We watched Ghostbusters and want to be a Ghostbuster or whatever.
And I certainly have had to accept that people who
are on screen are magic. They have a charisma. They
why is Bonobono? You know, what's the difference between him
and just some guy in a local band. And people
have something that's indefinable, and it's.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
What draws us to people.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And I always think, you know, if they have a
ten of that, I might have a three, and three
is kind of entertaining, but it is.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
It's Jim Carrey, you.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Know, it's you know, it's not Jerry Lewis. And and
on some level, I think most people in the world
have to accept that they're not Johnny Carson. They're not
walking around, you know, handsome and talented and hilarious and
everyone's fascinated by them. So yeah, there's definitely moments, But
I also don't hunger for it enough and never did
(14:30):
to really try to make that happen. I was just
as amused, or close to just as amused to write
like a piece of stand up for somebody like Jim
Carrey and watch them annihilate in a way I knew
I would never have the courage to even attempt. You know,
there's a fearlessness to some of these people, to Adam
(14:50):
Sandler or Amy Schumer, where when you see them do it,
you're like, wow, that's.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Just it's another level. It's like Michael Phelps.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, versus like a high school swimmer.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Swim yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've got so many
things to ask you, but maybe one other thing I
may ask is you also made the Zen Diaries of
Gary Shandy, which I think is a truly extraordinary piece
of work, And if people listening have not seen it,
as very much suggest you do, Like it's a very
deep dive into your late friend Gay Shanning, but it
goes through his diaries. It's incredibly intimate, and it's very
(15:25):
sad and very moving and real and honest and deep.
And I wondered, for you making that and going through
his diaries and stuff, how much of it was, Like
there's a level of kind of intimacy to that film
that I think is rare where it almost feels too much.
It almost feels like, I don't know if we should
be seeing this, do you know what I mean? It
feels so personal, and I wonder how that was for
(15:46):
you making it well.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Making it was a process of grieving, because you know,
Gary was a mentor to me, and I think in
a way until he died, I didn't really realize how
much of an impact he had on me. It just
felt like such a massive loss. And I was putting
together these little short video montages for his memorial service,
which I put together and then I quickly thought, oh,
(16:11):
there's an amazing documentary in this footage. And it was
hard to make. It took me months before I could
really listen to his voice and listen to all the podcasts.
It all just made me so sad, and I had
an idea of what I thought some of his life
was about, and I didn't know if I was correct,
because it kept feeling like it was about the loss
(16:33):
of his brother when he was a little kid, and
how his family handled it, which was by not really
talking about it, and it forced him sort of internalized
so much, and it led to a lot of issues
in relationships and trust issues, but it was a guess.
And then right near the end of the process, I
opened up a diary that I hadn't found before, and
(16:55):
there was a letter to his brother that basically said
everything that I I.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Thought it was.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
And he said just what a profound effect that his
brother had on him his entire life, and he says,
I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
It was a long letter.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I put a little piece of it in the documentary,
and I felt like Gary wanted something like this to
be out there, but he hadn't figured it out. In
stand up and even in thinking about documentaries, Gary was
trying to crack the code on this, and to me
it felt like finishing up a project that he had started.
(17:31):
That this is what he would want you to take
from his life. He would want you to learn from
the messiness of his life. You know, he leaned Buddhists,
and you know there's a thing in Buddhism, you know,
use everything for the path, right, use everything as a lesson.
And although Gary was very private in life, I thought
(17:51):
now that he's gone, he would want people's lives to
get better as a result of him having led this life.
Although I could be wrong, he would be furious.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
We'll never know.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well, it feels like I really I watched that film
and I thought this, it feels like an act of love,
like it's a it's a real it's a love letter
to a man. But this was a very even handed.
It isn't a I don't know if this is the
right word had geography.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
It's not meant to just kiss his ass and say
he's the greatest. Because Gary was wonderful and giving and
also a terror at times, and there were people he
couldn't forgive. He was very hard on Bob Saggot. You know,
they had a falling out when Gary sued their mutual manager,
and Bob Saggat made a joke to a newspaper where
(18:40):
he said I'm going to sue him too because I
need a Porsche, and that really hurt Gary's feelings in
a way. He never made up with him the rest
of his life because he thought that the joke made
Gary look like he was just in it for the
money and not for the justice of dealing with having
been wronged by the manager. And Gary took it way
(19:01):
too far. It was just way too far. Bob was
in this terrible situation where he was typed with Gary
and type with his manager, and his manager was really
there for him, and I'm sure Bob just nervously didn't
know what to do. And Gary, even as a Buddhist,
even as a person who should think Old Dharma's dreams
and nothing is really that important, he held a grudge.
(19:24):
And that's what the movie's about. It's not saying that
he's perfect. Sarah Silverman said, Gary needed Zen.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
He needed this. It wasn't that he was zen. He
needed Zen.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, wow, Yeah, absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
We're doing another one now about George Carlin, really a
two part documentary with my partner Michael Bonfiglio, and it
is so different also because I wasn't friends with George Carlin, so.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Right, is it easier? Is it easier to just go
this is a good bit.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
I was kind I couldn't capture it because I didn't
know him.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
But his daughter, Kelly Carlin, has done a lot of
interviews with us and she's a big part of it
and one of the producers, and we're just finishing it up.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
But it's a very.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Different life, but it's an equally deep dive and then
ultimately it's about almost the prophecy of his stand up
everything that we're going through today. He had a bit
about twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, can I ask you one more thing? And then
I promise we'll talk about films. Curious again, when you
look at your career, you made a load of amazing
stuff that wasn't necessarily successful. You had a period of
stuff that people love that didn't make money or was
considered yeah, not successful. There was a whole period of that.
Then you hit big. Basically, my question is the stuff
(20:42):
you made when you weren't as successful, if I may,
is really really good in your head? Was there any
difference between what you did before and after let's call
it big success or is it just luck and timing.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
It's hard to say.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I mean, hopefully I'm getting better, but there are things
you do when you're young because you don't know any better,
and that's why they're good. So we did The Cable Guy,
and at the time, because it was a dark comedy,
it was considered a disappointment. But yet on the Super
Bowl there's a Cable Guy commercial and we did that
movie in nineteen ninety six, so you know, so it's
(21:18):
twenty six years later that character is alive enough in
the culture that it's a Super Bowl commercial. And I
remember Carry Shanny was friends with Warren Batty and Cable
Guy wasn't doing well and got really bad reviews. And
we were surprised because we thought people would appreciate that
we were taking all these risks creatively.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
And Warren Baty said.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
To me, you don't know if a movie is good
or means anything to people for ten years after it
comes out. Then you'll know if they're still talking about it,
then you'll know where it really landed. Like Harold and
Maud was a big bomb when it came out. And
so the fact that twenty six years later people think
it's funny enough that they wanted to talk about it,
and the blue ray comes out and there's anniversaries of
(22:01):
the movie.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
But still it's a lesson because you still and I
are making a movie.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
We don't really even know how to make a movie,
and so we're we're doing all sorts of crazy things
that it's still debatable if they were the right choices
or not too light, too dark, you know what are
we saying? But I think that movie it was about
losing your mind due to reliance on gadgets, and that
is was the point, like I had literally and he says,
(22:25):
you know, let's kill the babysitter. That's the end of
the movie and him jumping to land on the satellite dish.
It doesn't work, he doesn't shut the satellite dish down,
but there is that moment where everyone's TV goes out.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, and then.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Someone just picks up a book and reads a book.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I'd even Kyle Gass from today Shousd is the one
that reads the book.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
But that was, you know, the point of the movie.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And then Freaks and Geeks, you know, was Paul Fiegs's vision,
and we all tried to make a contribution about what
happened to us in our childhoods in it. For me,
I always think, I don't know why that came out
so well, that there was some strange kis mid or
you know magic to that. We were just really passionate
about it, you know, and obviously Paul had a very
(23:11):
clear idea what he wanted to do, and I always thought, well,
at least that happened.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
You know, and then anything I did after it, it's
still it's still people still talk about it, it's still yeah,
and it's like.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
It's like we didn't even know what we had ever
done an hour TV show. But afterwards, I always thought,
I'm going to treat every project like the thing after
the great thing that work, so like I'm allowed to
take a big swing because Freaks and Geeks worked, so
it's okay if I fail on the next one. And
I've done that for every project since Freaking Geeks, because
(23:45):
I thought, oh, well, that's our that's our Sergeant Pepper.
So at least we did one thing amazing in our
whole careers, and everything else can be like we might
do it again, but if we don't, it's actually okay
because somehow that happened. And that's just a mental trick
for me not to put too much pressure on myself,
so I really allow myself to fail every time. I
(24:06):
don't want to be safe. That's the key, Chad.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I've forgotten to tell you something, and I feel like
an idiot because we've been talking for about twenty minutes
and I probably should have said it at the beginning,
and I don't even know how you can take this,
but I'll just say and well, I guess we'll deal
with the phone now afterwards, I'm so sorry. I just
have to say you've died. You're dead.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Oh man, shit, I thought that's what happened at.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Some point, Yeah, what happened? How did he die?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I was walking down the stairs in the middle of
the night because I realized I didn't bring the dogs in,
and a cat was on one of the steps, and
when my foot hit the cat, I was like, oh,
don't step on the cat, and then I just fell
backwards and wiped out. And that's how I died, trying
not to hurt my cat. And I have four cats, Like,
I don't need four. I could have three cats, but
(24:57):
my instinct was to care about the cat more than.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Me I loved. As a Hollywood screenwrites it, you died
saving the cat.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yes, thought about that. That's correct. That is a perfect death.
Do you worry about death?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I'm very bad on death. My parents weren't religious.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
They never talked about religion ever, and there was no
discussion of the afterlife ever, which has.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Left me with a gaping hole.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
And so I'm very interested in Buddhism and the idea
of accepting everything like there is no time. My body
lives in time, but I do not live in time.
But then I never really fully believe it. But I'm trying.
I'm trying to have something, but I generally I don't
have a good enough answer that lets me sleep well
at night. So what I'm also trying to do is
accept my own debt. So like when I'm on a
(25:49):
plane and I take off, I don't like try to live.
I always say the same thing, like that was a
pretty good ride. I guess that was it, and then
I get less nervous, and I think in life, that's
what I'm trying to do, to just go like, Okay,
that was enough.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
So you're treating everything like like you treat freaks and
geeks like the next project. The next day, I had
a pretty good day, So now that doesn't matter what
happens if I die.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Exactly. That's the only way I think to feel a
little bit better.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know, I really like that. That makes sense to me.
Do you think anything happens when you die?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
You know Tik nan Han, who is the big Buddhist
monk that a lot of people read his books like
pieces every step.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
He has all these amazing books, and.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
He just says, I'm not dead, like I'm in you,
I'm in your thoughts every time you breathe, I'm there,
I'm in the trees, I'm I'm the leaves.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
And I think that's a.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Beautiful idea that doesn't work at all for me to
feel better.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, not vitally compet but yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Want to I don't want to be in a leaf. Okay,
I get I get what that means.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
We're all energy, we're all changing and moving constantly, but
I would like to be here. I don't want to
be in a cricket. I don't want to be like
a piece of you know, some sort of living fungus
in dirt. None of that feels good to me.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
But someone said to me once, you have to love
the mystery, and so that's what I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to love the mystery because I think Pete
Holmes has an incredible bit about it. I'm paraphrasing and
doing it wrong, but he basically says people talk about like,
how could there be a heaven?
Speaker 4 (27:23):
And Pete said, well, how can there be this?
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And we're on a planet moving twenty thousand miles an
hour and we don't fall off of it. Yeah, you know,
like he has an amazing bit, which I think actually
is true. Who who knows?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, I know, I'm glad you know. Don't worry about it.
It's actually I think you're gonna like it. There's a heaven,
straight up heaven. God say that it's filled with your
favorite thing. What's your favorite thing?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
I guess it's movies, right, I guess we're going to
talk about movies.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Can would be nice? You want to change the format,
I'm ready to guess that.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
They're very excited to see you in heaven. They're all
big fans of all your work, but they won't talk
about your life. They want to talk about your life
through film. And the first thing they ask you is,
what is the first film you remember seeing? John Apata.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
The first film I have a memory of watching was
a movie called The Phantom.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Toll Booth, and it was I believe it was like
real people and at some point they went through like
a toll booth and it became animated.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Correct. I remember this film.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
I don't remember much more about it.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I have located it at times where I could watch it,
but have made some choice not to watch it because
it's like so magical in my mind. But that's my
first memory of a movie. I mean, you know, my
family as a kid would buy the first VHS tapes,
so right when it was invented, we had the VCR,
(28:56):
you know, mid seventies, and we only really had about
like ten twelve movies. You know. It really was like
Godfather Part one and two, Ani Hall, French Connection, ten
to ten, and The Pink Panther. I mean, so for
a while there was like six and then eight and
and our whole life was those movies. It was like
a little kid, like a little kid, you know, ten eight,
(29:19):
I'm like watching The Godfather a lot, and then all
the Woody Allen movies. You know, we all feel bad
talking about Woody Allen these days, but truly that was
just the heavy rotation was all those movies at that
time up through Manhattan was what we would watch constantly.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Are you a ninety child?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
I have an older brother and a younger sister that
behaved like an only child a fair amount, sat alone
a fair amount.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So you wanted to find a tobe at him on TV?
Is your first memory of it?
Speaker 3 (29:50):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It was in the theater. Wow. Yeah, and did you
think I want in on this?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I don't think I ever really thought I wanted in
on movies.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I wanted in on stand up. That's the strange part
about me.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
I didn't really make a movie's adjustment till I was
in my twenties. I didn't pay any attention to movies
as a kid, like, hmm, I wonder what Len's copa
is using on this shot. I didn't care at all.
I liked movies, but I didn't think about being a
director ever. I didn't think about writing them ever. Really,
(30:23):
I just thought I'd love to be in that world
of the National Lampoon, people on this Saturday Night Live,
people like stripes. I'd like somehow to be in that.
I don't know how it happens, and I want to
be friends with those people. I want to have a
group like that. But I don't think I had a
clear vision. And I wanted to be on stage like
(30:43):
Jeff Altman or Jerry Seinfeld or Gilbert Godfrey. That was
the dream, to be a stand up comedian. Then later
friends would get successful. Then suddenly they'd be like, should
we try to write a movie, And I'm like, oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I went to college for that. I think I did
eighteen months of screenwriting in USCA.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I think I know the format. I remember I sold
a movie pitch when I was very young, and then
afterwards it seemed like, Oh, they bought it, they like it.
I went downstairs to a bookstore and bought how to
write a screenplay, and then the people I had pitched
it to walked into the bookstore and I had to
(31:24):
hide that I was buying the book.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
You should have just signed it. I'm just signing this.
What's the film that scared you the most? Do you
like being scared? You've never made a horror I tried.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
I've tried to write some horror.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I don't know if it's my move because I really
have made some attempts to produce and help with herd.
I've never really assisted well. Bill Hayter was writing a
horror movie before years before, a train Wreck, and it
was a great idea, really was funny. But I don't
think I had the chops in the world of horror
to give the appropriate guidance to get it to where
(32:07):
it was shootable.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
But you like I don't.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I'm not like a big fan of horror because I
don't love being in this state of terror.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
I will watch it.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I love what Jordan Peel's doing, and I've seen the
fair amount of it, and my kids like it and
they would they'll make me watch it, but it's not
where I go to for fun. I actually like a
scary movie more than a violent horror movie, so I'm
not attracted to like chopping people up. But if there's
like a movie and someone said, like it's really scary,
(32:39):
like Baba Duke, I'm all about the Baba Duke.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
That kind of thing I like a lot. But the
movie as a kid that scared me.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
The most was probably The Fog, the original version of
The Fog, and also when a stranger is calling, because
that idea of like.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
The call is coming from inside the house. Yeah, that
freaked me out.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
But the movie The Fog had these like I don't
remember if it was like pirates or something else, somebody
coming through the fog into the town to murder everyone.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
I'm sure I'm getting all the details wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, no, the FuG comes in and people like ghists
are in it from the past. I don't know if
they were pirates they might have been saying this, but yeah,
they're not happy.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
They're not happy.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
But What a Stranger Calls was the first one where
I was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
My god, yeah, when it's strange. It was amazing and
also amazing to string an hour and a half film
out of the concept He's in the house, Yes, the
coole is coming from the house, and it's like they
make it last.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
It was that Carol Kane was in there.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yeah right, okay.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
And I also was really scared, Like the scariest kind
of movie thing was in Woody Allen Movies. He talked
about his fear of death and he had the little
Boy and he's just like, well, I don't know if
the if the if the universe expands, you know, why
is it a break apart or you know. There was
a lot of what's the point of living type jokes,
(34:04):
and as a little kid watching way too much of that,
it planted seeds of terror inmate.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
That interesting. What about crying? What's the film that made
you cry the most? Are you a crier?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
I love to cry. I'm a sucker.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I'll cry during a commercial, I'll cry randomly during You'll.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
You'll cry in life in public in like you're not
shy about it? All right?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah, I'm okay, I mean I won't hold it in
the in the setting where it is appropriate. I mean,
terms of endearment is just a cry fast. You know
the scenes near the end with Deborah Winger of the hospital,
and then at the very end, Jack Nicholson is taking
care of the boy at the funeral, and then he
(34:49):
walks into his house and he says, you want to
see my pool, And there's something about it that just
takes you ball that this man who was all about himself,
was so involve cares about this kid. And I remember
I asked James Brooks about that scene and I said,
it's just such a magical grace. Note at the end
(35:09):
of this story, how did that happen? Is that improvise?
And he said, you know, we were going to shoot
the funeral scene and I said to everyone on the movie,
there is a roth Go museum where we are, I
know if they were in Dallas or in Texas, and
you should go look at these paintings. And I guess
he was trying to get people in the spirit of
mourning for the funeral and you should go there to
(35:30):
prepare and he said, no one went but Nicholson.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah, And thus you get let me show you my pool,
but that, you know, ending a movie on a very
small gesture of kindness. Yeah, you know, I found very
very powerful, and for some reason I cried during the
last twenty minutes of Punch Drunk Love A just ball,
like I can't stop crying.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeah, you know, I connect to it so much. And
you know, I lived with.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Adam Sandler, and when he was making the movie, he's like,
I'm kind of doing an impression of you and my
brother and I would watch the movie and I could
see like what he's making fun of, which at core
was like my insecurity that he observed when we lived
together when we were in our early twenties, and I
was just like terrified around women.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
And I there's a funny moment where.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
He's like talking about he's on a date and he's
trying to explain something funny a DJ said, and he's
just bombing at the table, and I'm like, that's like
my entire early twenties. So psychically, I felt so connected
to the loneliness of that character that I would just
(36:41):
lose my mind sobbing watching the end of it, because
I was happy he fell in love even though he
seems somewhat crazy and broken.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
He seemed that well. I think I don't know what
it was on. Maybe it was on the Homes book,
cust was it with you? I don't know where. James
Brooks was talking about the end of As Good as
It Gets and how that was just sort of made up,
just improvised. They were trying to find an ending they did.
I think they had like three nights of just kind
of playing around and then Yeah, I think he just
(37:11):
shouted kiss from behind the camera and I think he
said he'll do it better next time or whatever exactly
that line is, and that's the line in the film, and.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
He's it was an improvisation from Nicholson.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I think it was like a kind of genuine
moment of the kiss wasn't great, I'll do it better
next time, and it was like that works, but it Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
It's like the end of the graduate. Can I tell
you something Nats about that, please? I was on the
set one of those nights.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
No tell me.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Owen Wilson, I believe was a co producer on that movie.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Yeah, James Brooks was one of the producers of Battle
Rocket and he he hired Owen to be someone that
he turned to to be part of the creative discussion
of the movie. I'm not sure exactly what ohen services were,
but he was, you know, part of the creative team
on that movie. And I went to visit the set
the night they were shooting that. No, I wasn't really
(38:09):
wearing the headphones at the monitor with mister Brooks.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
I was very far away, just terrified, but I was there.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
And James Brooks is the person then, you know, I've
always learned so much from you know, what he did
in broadcast news and so much movies Intelligion and The Simpsons,
and yeah, it's really the thing that I would try
to be very aware of is the humanity underneath the comedy.
And he always talks about that you have a responsibility
to the characters you create. I love thinking about it
(38:40):
that way, like they exist and you have to do
right by them.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
You can't be you have to come through God.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I really like that. Tell me this, what is the
film that you love? People don't really like it. It's
not critically acclaimed, but you don't care what anyone says.
You love it unconditionally. Jodd Apataw, What is.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
It, well, the movie that I like that.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Maybe not ever everyone loves I remember I was a kid,
Caddyshack came out and it got two and a half
stars in New York News Day. It was the first
time I saw a movie that I worship get a
bad review where I understood that, oh, maybe reviewers aren't
always correct. Yes, and that was the abuse of meatballs,
(39:20):
and Caddyshack was a big thing. There is a movie
that makes me laugh so hard. Not to keep talking
about Sandler, but Jack and Jill makes me laugh so hard.
I don't know where people think it stands in the
cannon of Sandler, but I brought my kids to the premiere.
I've never laughed harder. I was just wall to wall,
(39:41):
losing my mind. And again I think the culture caught
up to it with the Pacino stuff and the doughnut
commercial and all that Doug Pacino.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
But my kids kept looking at me, like, what is
wrong with you?
Speaker 3 (39:52):
And what was making me laugh the most was I
could see in Adam's eyes the glee he was getting
from doing it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
There was just a joy in.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Playing the female part that it made me giggle so
hard because every choice he made I would imagine him
thinking of how to do it. So I was having
a multi level just ridiculous laugh fast watching it. And
also it's so proud to just go I'm going to
do anything.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
To make you laugh.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
That is a perfect answer. I found the same way
about That's My Boy, which yes, yeah, Claire and I
was very badly received, and fuck it's funny. I mean
we laughed. I mean, say what you like. I was
laughing on my friend.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
People don't realize how hard it is to just try
to make people piss their pants to try to figure
out what those levers are. That gets you to a
place where you really laugh hard and you're shocked, and
it just gets you in a mel Brooks riotous way.
You know. That's like my favorite thing when people are
just going, I'm going to try to destroy you right now,
(40:57):
Like I'm so excited to say jackass forever, right because yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Know what's coming. I know I'm going to be so happy.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
What is the film that you used to love but
you'vevoiced it recently and now you don't like it? But
that can be for personal reasons or whatever it might be.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Author author go On al Pacino as a writer Diane Cannon,
A lot of kids it is like he has a
lot of kids al Pacino. They all have the manner
of David Crumholtz as a young actor. But as a kid,
I kind of love that movie, and I watched it
again and I thought maybe as a kid, I thought
(41:37):
I was like being sophisticated with an adult movie, but
maybe not the master work. Now. I'm not saying it's
not solid, but in my mind as a kid, I
felt like I'm smart.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
I like author, author, it's a real time and it
makes you sound smart. I get it. What's the film
that means the most to you? Not necessarily the film
itself is any good, but the experience you had around
seeing the film that will always make it special to you.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
You know, I went and saw Diner with my mom
when I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You know, my mom was no longer with us, and
my parents got divorced, and you know, she moved away
and she was working as a waitress at a diner
in the Hampton's and she was very upper middle class.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
And was really bummed that she had to do that right,
and I was proud of her.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
I thought it was cool, like, oh my god, you're
just working hard to take care of yourself, and she
was really bummed, but was so nice and funny and
people probably loved her as a waitress, but really the
last person in the world you would think of who
would have to support herself in that way.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
And she took me to see diner, like after she worked,
and she fell asleep the entire time, and I just.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Remember watching Diner and my mom was as exhausted I'm
trying to make a living, but was for me, even
though she had no guests in the tank, took me
to diner.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
How old were you at the time.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
I was probably fourteen or fifteen.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So you stayed with your dad and your mom lived
the way. Is that what happened?
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah, if I may ask, And that wasn't something that happened.
So it was all very It was all very traumatic.
But when I think of moments where my mom was
really trying to be there for me, you know. And
then that became a movie that influenced me an enormous
amount because Barry Levinson, you know, he's a great storyteller,
and he told personal stories about his childhood, about his friendships,
(43:35):
and I think that he's much more influential than people
realize that all of this Tarantino speak and Seinfeld that
a lot of the earliest incarnations of that was created
by Barry Levinson in Diner. Yeah, you know, that's where
we saw just people talking about a roast beef sandwich. Yeah,
(43:57):
Paul Risers, you know, asking who's better mathis or Sinatra,
and and.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
He used comedians, you know, he had Paul Reiser and
he let him.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Improvise, which I was very influenced by, and I thought, wow,
Paul Reiser wrote most of his lines. That's incredible. But
it made it so real to how people talk when
they when they hang out. I think later movies and
TV did that, but I can't really think of places
I did it as well before Diner.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
And it also does see like it's not for nothing,
as in there's that incredible. I think it's one of
like the all time great scenes with Daniel Stern and
Ellen Bucking where he's saying, you never asked me about
the B sides of all these records. You never asked
me about the B sides, And it's, you know, on
the surface, it's a funny conversation about I care about
stuff you don't care about, but really it's about their
(44:44):
marriage it's a it's an amazing bit of writing that, Like,
you never asked me about the B side. I don't
give a shit. She's like, what do I care? I
don't care about the B side.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Yeah. And the sport the sports tests.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah, Steve Gutenberg makes his fiance take a test and
he won't marry her.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
He doesn't know everything about sports.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
It's so good. I didn't know that about your mom.
And it's I mean, it's explained all the things that
you've been asking the question of why do you do comedies?
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Like I get it exactly. Yeah, it all at all
thoughts coming together.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
What's the film that you must relate it to? Chad Apata?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I mean I related to Fast Times at Ridgemond High
as a kid. I liked seeing the hierarchy of the
high school right when we did Freezing Geeks pol Fig.
He never like looked at Welcome to the Dollhouse in
Fast Times as influences, but to me they were my
influences as his partner. And I always thought about, you know,
(45:46):
the kid who worked at the movie theater and his
friend sold the concert tickets and and and he was
the nerdy, the nerdy one, and I was like, I
feel like that kid.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
I'm that kid at the movie theater.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
And was very meaningful to me, and that the people
in it spoke the way we spoke, and Judge Ryan
Holds character, it felt like someone had captured what it
felt like in the mid eighties to be in high school.
And actually it was written by Cameron Crow, who went
undercover in a high school and wrote a book about
what happened and that then.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
He wrote a screenplay of the book.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
But he really did it. And he's one of the
people I interviewing Sicker in the Head and I asked
him a lot of questions about that.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I'd like to know about that. All right, Okay, I'm
going to read that section next. John Apatow is the
one people He's the one people tune in for what's
the sexiest film You've ever seen? And is it by
Derek in ten?
Speaker 3 (46:40):
I mean, that was a movie that I don't remember
any of because I love Dudley Moore. I just remember
the kid thinking I wish there was less adult stuff
in this and more silly Dudley more interesting.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
I didn't like Hunger for the.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Adult Blake Edward's aspects. I was like, I like Dudley
Moore to going Nuts a little bit, but more Arthur
type humor. Yeah, but as a kid, I think the
sexiest movie is probably Body Heat. Yes, I mean that
was the one where you're like, well, that's that's as
that's as hot as a as a movie can get.
(47:17):
I could not. I could not create scenes like that
in a movie. I get uncomfortable when I have to think,
have anyone be sexy or sexual? I'm working through my
own issues when I'm trying to present those types of scenes.
But when I look at that, I think, well, that
is a commitment. Lawrence Kasm, the great Lawrence Kasm made
that movie, And I don't know, I can't think of
(47:39):
another scene in anything that's like that. What what else
would you do? What else would even compare? I'll email
your list? What what?
Speaker 1 (47:51):
As a sub category to this question, traveling Bonner is worrying,
why don't I film? You found a rousing that you
weren't sure if you should?
Speaker 3 (47:59):
That's a very good question, you know, I might say
Sharky's Machine. I might you remember Sharky's Machine that the
bird read? Maybe it was Rachel Ward in Sharky's Machine.
I mean, there was this Canadian movie. I can't ever
remember the name of it, but it was about a
(48:20):
guy who was like an extra, you know, he was
atmosphere and movies I want to be actor wasn't doing
well and he plays a cop in something and he
steals the uniform and starts like going around town acting
like a cop and like being more and more aggressive
about that, just like telling people to get out of
the way, you know, giving people take it its even
(48:42):
though he's not a cop. And I remember there was
some sort of romance in that movie with a Canadian
actress and I can't remember it. I can't remember what
it looked like, but I remember being fascinated by it.
And someone's gonna message you and tell you what that
movie is. It's Canadian, Canadian movie.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's not the film Let's Speak Cop.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
No, it's like a drama. It's like a troubling version
of Let's Speak Ops from like.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
And it's not Miami for this. It's not Miami Blace.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
It's not Miami bluesm okay, that.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Is a good mystery for us. John Apatow, what is objectively,
objectively the greatest film of all time might not be
your favorite, but objectively it's the greatest.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
I mean, when I think of perfect movies, it's always
like there's like two or three. I can't get it
exactly right. Being there is usually on the top of
my list. I feel like it's a miracle of a movie.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
It holds up.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
I mean, I think all through the Trump administration people
referenced it, and it's a yoursy Kazinski novel that it
was based on. I think my grandfather did the development
for John Frankenheimer, the director, when he was like in
his sixties or late fifties, and it was a period
with it. I think they claimed that they owned that
book and then they lost the option to it. But
(50:00):
Peter Salers couldn't be funny the scenes with him and
Shirley maclain, the scene where they're like watching television and
he's trying to copy what's on the TV and she
thinks like they're having a sexual moment. I mean, it's
the greatest comic set pieces of old time, and it
has much deeper meaning. And then I always think about
Cuckoo's Nest in terms of the I mean terms when
(50:20):
deermon and broadcast news are always right up there, and
I always think about the movie. In addition to like
Godfather movies and Goodfellas, there's a movie called a prophet
ye movie that's I just when it ended, I'm like,
he can't do it better than that?
Speaker 4 (50:37):
You can't it is?
Speaker 3 (50:40):
You know?
Speaker 1 (50:40):
So which is your answer? Gun to head, I'd say
being there, I'd say right there, you can have it
chut out as out. What's the film you could or
have watched? The Mice Iver and over again?
Speaker 3 (50:52):
The movie that I've seen more than any other movie.
That's a good question. What if I watched over and
over again, then I want to watch over and over again.
Maybe oddly groundhog Day another perfect movie. Yeah, you know,
(51:13):
we made a movie called Year One with Harold Ramis,
and we were all excited to just be around him
because he loved to answer questions. He would tell you
all the stories, very happy. He was the nicest man
in the Greatest hang. But that is as good as
a comedy film can get. And you can watch it
over and over again and always find new things about it.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, I have a question for you when you're making
films and I think I've read something, correct me if
I'm wrong. I think this is what you said in
an insuew and I really liked it. Is that someone
was saying, oh, your films are so long, while they
say long, cut them down, and you said something like,
because I like all the bits, I don't want to
cut it down. Is that true? Is that right?
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Well, you know there's usually a moment in the editing
where you realize as a whole, this might play better
at an hour and forty eight, but the sixteen minutes
I would have to cut to get you there is
the thing that makes the movie really good.
Speaker 4 (52:10):
And so I feel ahead of my time in not
caring about time.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Because people will sit down and watch like seven episodes
of Yellow Jackets in a row, So why won't you
watch a two hour and seven or eleven minute movie.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
And you know a lot of.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
People will be like, oh, it's you know, comedies need
to be ninety minutes. So comedy is worth less of
your time than a spaceship or a superhero. I remember
someone said to me, I think it was James Brooks.
He said, you know, when your movie is a little
bit longer, you're saying these people are worth your time.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
That's very nice.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
And that's how I like to look at it. And
I have watched movies later and go, God, I wish
I found that ten minutes. And some sometimes they asked
me to cut it down because I have to because
it's going to be on ABC or something, and they're like, well,
you only have this much time, so you need to
cut twelve minutes for it to fit on network television,
and I do, and everyone's while I'm like, yeah, it
(53:06):
might be better that way.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
When you're when you're making I can't remember this from
How often do you think when you're in the edit
did you watch the film? Let's let's take this is forty,
which I love, By the way, how often do you
think you watched that film from beginning to end in
the edit, rather than working on bits where you just
sat back watched it as a whole. Do you have
any estimate?
Speaker 3 (53:28):
You have to be careful because your brain can only
handle so many full watches. So I'll fix hunks of
it for months and months, having maybe watched a long
two hour and forty minute assemble at the beginning of
the process once and then I won't watch it all together.
I'll just watch, you know, they cut into like six reels,
and then at the preview when I watch it with
(53:50):
an audience.
Speaker 4 (53:51):
That's when I watch it.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
I rarely watch the whole thing by myself without an audience.
But then when I'm with the audience, I really like
rest up and you get focus, and I try to
see if I can have the experience of the audience,
which is hard because you lose all the mystery and
the tension of I wonder what'll happen. So in a way,
as a filmmaker, you never get to watch it the
way another person feels when they watch it, so you
(54:13):
almost can't edit your movie correctly.
Speaker 4 (54:15):
You're trying to edit your.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Movie based on math, based on story dynamics that you're
being very intellectual about.
Speaker 4 (54:21):
But when someone watches a movie, you know, sometimes you think, oh.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
I wonder if they're gonna be worried if they're gonna kiss,
But really what they're worrying about is he's gonna murder her.
Like you don't know what people think when they don't
know what's coming. And sometimes you'll test the movie and
they'll be like, I really thought he was gonna kill her,
and you're like, I didn't intend that at all. I
thought you look like he just liked her. And that's
something that you have to have a conversation with the
(54:47):
crowd to say, where was it boring?
Speaker 4 (54:50):
Where's it slowing down? How are you experiencing this?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
I'm actually excited because there's a lot of my movies
I haven't watched in ten years or more, and I
can begin to to try to watch them to see
if I can get a feel for them as an
audience member.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Amazing A, jat apta, what's the I don't like to
be negative for too long. What's the worst film you
ever seen?
Speaker 3 (55:11):
I think the worst movie I've ever seen was a
kids movie. I used to have to watch all the
kids movies when my daughters were younger, and there was
a movie called Brats b R A t Z Yes,
And every second of it was like being in a
dentist chair. It just time was moving backwards, and it
(55:33):
all felt like an excuse to make a toy into
a movie.
Speaker 4 (55:36):
It felt like a like a money play.
Speaker 3 (55:39):
And I could be wrong, but on that particular day,
I suffered more than I can remember ever suffering in
a movie.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
And did they love it? Did your girls love it?
Speaker 4 (55:49):
I don't even think they loved it. You know, lot
of times when you take your kids to movies.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
It's just a Sunday time killer, Like your kids are
bored and you're like, Okay, an hour and a half
of this will be this movie, then we'll go get
Chinese Fit and so you you want have seen a
lot of movies that you would want to see. But
it is sad because now that my kids are, you know,
nineteen and twenty five, I don't go to kids movies anymore.
Speaker 4 (56:09):
I don't watch them. And I did.
Speaker 3 (56:11):
I watched them for twenty years, everything, every single kid's
movie that came out. And like I was home the
other day, I'm like, should I watch this cartoon? And
I did, and and I'm like, you should just start
watching kids movies alone. Is that weird and creepy to
just sit by yourself watching those movies?
Speaker 4 (56:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
You'd have to ask my neighbor if she thinks he's
weird and creepy that I do. Well, you're in comedy,
you're a comedian. You've made some of the great comedies.
What film made you laugh the most? Jut up, it's happen.
Speaker 3 (56:42):
I mean the movie that makes me laugh more than
any movie. I mean, there's a couple of experiences I
remember watching Young Frankenstein in a theater at a revival
house twenty years ago, having never seen it, with a
crowd and the place.
Speaker 4 (56:58):
Just losing their shit.
Speaker 3 (57:00):
Walter just the laughs were crazy and that was fun.
That the biggest laughs I remember in a theater. One
was Airplane when it came out, like the Weekend came out.
So I saw it as a very young man and
it was a barn burner. It just it made everyone
so happy and people laughed so hard. And the other
(57:23):
one I remember the two others, something about Mary. I
went to see with Ben Stiller on opening night, just
in the Hiding in the back in Santa Monica, and
that was so fun.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
It's so fun to see it with Ben.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
I was just so happy for Ben and it it
such It inspired so many movies and so many of
our movies. But the one that was the craziest was
we went to see borat the first time. Sasha showed
his friends to get thoughts and notes, so it was
like twenty five minutes longer than it ultimately was. They
(57:57):
were set pieces in it that he cut out. There
was a whole scene like shooting a porno that was
just so crazy and troubling. I may have hit some
DVD extually, I don't know. And the scene where he
has the naked fight, there was nothing covering the ball,
so it was way longer and make way more aggressive
(58:21):
about like just the guy's balls and penis on Sasha's face,
just rubbing on his face. And you know, it was
a true fall out of your seat, you know, split
up whatever you're eating or drinking moment.
Speaker 4 (58:34):
And then when it ended, George Meyer from The Simpsons
was there.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
Wow, and.
Speaker 3 (58:41):
He just said, I feel like I just listened to
Sergeant Pepper for the first time. That's my second Sergeant
Pepper reference. Yeah, And I thought, well, that's the nicest
compliment you ever can get, Like we knew the form
had been reinvented. Yeah, and that was exciting.
Speaker 1 (58:55):
That's a perfect answer. Okay, John Aptout, You've been amazing.
I'm so grateful for you. Thank you for giving me
your time. However, when you were walking down the stairs
late at night and one of your four cats, you
about to tread on it, and you thought, in perfect
screenwriting structure, save the cat, so you moved your foot
and in doing so, you fell down the steps over
(59:17):
and over and over. Again, and it turns out you've
got five flights of steps because you live in a
very big house, and you just kept rolling down it
like a old fastened stunt man. But you didn't quite
have the way to land in a way that wouldn't
hurt yourself, and you broke ninety three percent of all
the bones in your body. At the bottom of the stairs,
you were dead, land on your head, dead, and the
(59:38):
cat padded over walked over your body when it had
some milk. No idea what I gone on? I'm walking past.
I got a coffin with me. You know what I'm like,
I pop in on the upper towels. I'm like as
everyone as everyone doing, says anyone seen jud I just
wanted to say low, And they went, oh, I think
he's having a nap at the bottom of the stairs.
I go to a boom stairs, I go, I don't
(59:59):
think that's a nap. You're in a fucking state. You're
all over the shop. So I have to get you.
But you're all in bits, like your limbs are all
twists and stuff. I have to break off bits to
try and get you in this coffin. I have to
end up chopping you up, I get I get the
whole family involved. We said, can I get bring some knives?
We chop you all up, pop you all in the
coffin absolutely jammed in there. There's more of you than
(01:00:20):
I was expecting. The coffin is full. There is only
really enough room in this coffin for me to slide
one DVD into the side with you, for you to
take across to the other side. And on the other side.
It's movie night every night. One night it's your movie night.
What film are you taking to show people in heaven
when it's your movie night?
Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Damn, that's a that's a thing I'm gonna say. It's
just what popped into my head. Animal House. Wow, Okay,
you know there's comedy, there's music, there's a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
Because you know, if that's the only one does have
a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Going on in it and no one else has brought it,
you'll be welcome in heaven. People gonna have a party.
Chad out, You've been fucking brilliant. Is that anything you
would like to tell people to watch, listen out for
and read?
Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Accept Well, The sticker in the head is my book
for charity for eighty six that is out and you
can buy it now on online or at a real bookstore.
Better to get at a real bookstore, yes, but you
could get an advance copy now and then the Bubble
on Netflix, and then the two part George Carlin documentary,
and then I disappear for about two three years. So
(01:01:27):
I'm going to disappear. I realized I did too much
over the last few years, and now I got it.
I just shut it down. Nothing but poems that I
don't show anyone that I burn after I write.
Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Though, John apt thank you so much for this. I
really appreciate you. I hope you have a lovely death.
Good day to you, sir, you as well.
Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
Thank you. That's fun.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
So that was a rewine classic with Judd Apatow. Be
sure to check out the Patreon page Patreon dot com
slash Brett Goldstein, where you will find extra chat and
video at various tiers and otherwise. If you fancy leaving
a note on Apple podcasts, that would be lovely too,
but make it a review of your favorite film, much
more fun and way more interesting to read. Everyone involved.
(01:02:14):
Thank you so much the Judd for greatness and presence
on the podcast. Thanks to SCREWBASPI and the Distraction Pieces Network.
Thanks too. And this is where Brett thanks me for
editing and producing the podcast, so I say it is
a pleasure. Thanks to iHeartMedia and Will Ferrell's Big Money
Players Network for hosting it. Thanks to Adam Richardson for
the graphics and Lisa Lydon for the photography. We will
(01:02:35):
be back next week with another Rewine classic.
Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
But that is it for now.
Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Brett and I and all of us at Films can
be buried with hope you will very well. In the meantime,
have a lovely week, take some deep breaths, and now
more than ever, be excellent to each other.
Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Best post back progos pas, best, the best post the
best pot bot programs, best blast backcras procop chin best,
the best post back procos plays
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Best past pot crash ban best, best post back proct
Look out.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
It's only films to be buried with rewind Classic. Hello,
(00:48):
dearest films to be buried with crew. My name is
Buddy Peace. I am a producer and editor, a DJ
and music maker, a delicate blend of librarian and horder
and for intro and outr purposes and temporary standing in
for your regular host and proud creator of this podcast,
mister Brett Goldstein, as Octavia Butler once said, there is
nothing new under the sun, but there are new sons.
(01:10):
There are also new moons, but I never really got
on board with the whole Twilight saga. Octavia. That is
absolutely fine. We can't love everything all the time. It
would be exhausting. Every week brettonvites a guest on he
tells them they've died, and then talks to them about
their life through the medium of film. However, this week
we are revisiting an earlier episode of the podcast while
Brett recharges the podcast batteries and retreats to the fortress
(01:33):
of Solitude for a moment or two in this bridge
between the seasons. This Rewine Classic is from March third,
twenty twenty two, originally episode one hundred and eighty eight.
Featuring screenwriter, producer, comic and dare i say, inventor of
the podcast, Chad Appertel, who you will know from his
involvement in such films as Knocked Up, The King of
Staten Island the forty year old version, and show friend
(01:55):
Pete Holmes is show crashing, or as Pete sometimes refers
to it, crushes. Let me take this opportunity to also
remind you that Brett has a Patreon page for the podcast,
upon which you get a bonus section on every podcast
with a secret from each guest, more questions, and a
video of each episode which looks very nice and very fresh.
So if you're of a supporting nature and feel like
(02:17):
some extras from the show, you'll find them all there.
So that is it for now. Let's get you settled
in for a wonderful episode with the illustrious Judd Apatoo.
Catch you at the end for a quick sign off
from me. But for now, please enjoy this flashback to
episode one hundred and eighty eight for Films to be
Buried With.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Hello, and welcome to Films to be Buried With. It
is I Brett Goldstein, and I am joined today by
a writer, a director, a producer, a documentarian, a book man,
a stand up a Netflix special, a changer of the gamer,
(03:03):
a lover, a fighter, a husband, a father, and one
of the most influential men in American comedy. Please welcome
to the show. Can't believe it's here? Could you believe
it's here? He's really here? Please welcome. It's mister Jan Abatau.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Whoa thank you that I maybe you feel nice? I
feel nice now.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, listen, I'm grateful you're doing this. Thank you for
your time. I actually was making notes before this, and
you're sort of one of the few people I've had
on where I'm kind of annoyed because there's so much
in your life and career that I want to talk about,
and I know there's a limited amount of time, and
so it's literally like I'm having to pick, like the bit,
what's the bit I can ask you about? Because you've
(03:47):
done it all, and you've done significant things a number
of times, I don't know how that feels for you
from a moment by moment basis. Do you just feel like, oh,
nothing's happened, I'm just just a guy, and I.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I feel like they have enough for the immemorial reel. Yeah, yes,
that's how I look at it like it's a good montage.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
It's a good montage.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
And so really that's all you care about in life,
is like when they cut to the montage, do you
have the goods? You know that is a clip back
of a montage, right, you go to the chess whack
shot and then you go to the me bombing on
evening at the improv. You know, there's all sorts of stuff.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Fuck. Well, so you and I met at Largo doing
a gig. I was very lucky to do a gig
with Pete Times and you were on and I mean,
can we talk about stand up for a bit, because yes, please,
with my interested in it. You have just written You're
about to release a new book, Sicker in the Head.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yes, it's uh interviews with comedians, which is what I
did when I was a kid, just because I wanted
to meet comedians. It was just an excuse to get
near them, just to ask them how they do it.
So the first book was maybe half and half interviews
I did when I was fifteen and new ones, and
this one is all new ones except John Candy from
nineteen eighty four. The funny thing is for the new one,
(05:09):
I did most of it during the pandemic, so I
realized that everyone was home, so no one could say
no to me because it's for charity. It goes to
a two six. It's free tutoring and literacy charity. So
when you call someone and you know their home, you
know their board, and it's for charity, they can't say no.
And then the interviews were kind of intense and emotional
(05:29):
because everyone was sitting home.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
Thinking about their lives and their journeys.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
So I was able to get people that normally probably
couldn't get, like Lin Manuel, Miranda and Letterman.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
I mean, so many cool people.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Mindy Kaling did it, and Nathan Fielder who you don't
hear talk a lot about how he does that, and
Sasha Baron Cohen and just tons of people. So I'm
psyched that it's out because the first one was the
book I wish someone wrote when I was a kid.
It didn't exist, and so I've seen with Sick in
the Head, a lot of people really went through it
with a highlighter.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
And it helped them the way doing the interviews helped me.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
What do you think it is? I was suddenly when
I was reading it. I got a chance to read
some of it, and it's brilliant like the other one.
But I was suddenly occurred to me. I was like,
why does this work so well in print when they're interviews?
Like what you know? You could equally, I guess release
the audio as a package or whatever. But so satisfying
to read these things. Do you have a theory on that?
(06:24):
I don't actually know why that is.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I don't. Okay, somebody was making fun of me.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
They're like, so, jud this is like a podcast written down.
But when I did him as a kid, I used
to joke it's almost like I was trying to invent
the podcast. Yeah, because it's what I wanted. I wanted
a long form interview with Seinfeld. If you love Seinfeld
in nineteen eighty three, there was no hour interview with
Jerry where he talked about how he did it.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
So I did it for the radio, and that's the
thing that I wanted.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
When you write it down, I think they work because
I'm sharing my life in the conversation. It's not just
me asking questions, and it's also one creative person asking
another creative person how they do it, and we're both
you know, some of it is inside baseball of comedy,
but a lot of it is emotional and.
Speaker 4 (07:11):
Why do we want to be funny?
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Which I'm always fascinated by, you know, what leads us
to feel like.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
This is how we want to process the world.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
When we first spike, you were doing a bit of
stand up, but you were doing more sort of Q
and a chat, and you said to me, if it's
like I had to share this. I asked you if
you were planning a new special of what you were
working on a stand up and you said, I can't
find you say if you don't mind.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, well, well, I said, the pandemic made me confused
about my stand up point of view because I'm not
sure if I'm sad or I'm angry or cynical or hopeful.
I'm all over the place every day, so I can't
figure out my stance. And I was kind of embarrassed
to try to just do what I was in the
(07:58):
middle of when the pandemics started, which is very domestic
about my life and family and stories from show business,
and it all felt kind of stupid. I'm slowly trying
to see it if it's okay to you know, to
just just tell a funny story about someone that I
bumped into, or or something that's happening with my kids
moving out of the house and empty nesting. But it
(08:21):
all felt so unimportant. Now that's just in my head.
I watch everyone else like you and Pete Holmes. They're
crushing it. They're great. No one is having the mental
issue I'm having. But I'm about to host the Director's
Guild Awards, so I have to do stand up at
a monologue only in front of Spielberg, so there's no
pressure to do stand up in front of Spike Lee
(08:42):
and Steven Spielberg and Jane Campion.
Speaker 4 (08:44):
So now I have to get my shit together. And
so I've been going.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
Out the stage doing like a DJ Awards monologue at
comedy clubs. So I have to say to the God,
I know you're not directors and you may not understand
or care about any of this, but I'm going to
treat you all like you are two hundred directors. And
it's gone pretty well so far. I'm gaining confidence by
the day.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Is that that date in the diary, Is that something
that's like a low level of anxiety that is residing
in your brain at all times, or is it like
that I'll be fine when I get to it.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I think I would be very nervous if I hadn't
done it a couple of times. This is the third
time I've done it, so I have a sense of
the crowd, and I think they're just happy that the
show doesn't.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Suck, is the truth, you know.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
So for someone who's one of them to get up
and talk about what it's like to direct, what it's
like to direct during the pandemic, and all the weird
things about, you know, having to communicate so people with
a mask on you. I mean, you've been through this.
It's everything. Adam Sandler said to me. Shooting a movie
during the pandemic basically removes every aspect of shooting that
was fun. You can't like kidbits with people and chad.
(09:55):
You know, you can't have dinner afterwards, you know when
you make it. We made a movie called The Bubble
that's gonna be Netflix, and it was about the horrors
of this time and shooting a movie during the pandemic.
So in the movie, they're trying to shoot a dinosaur
action movie and it's a bunch of people stuck in
a house in a hotel in London, and the and
the studios pressuring them to finish this dinosaur movie. And
(10:18):
it's about the isolation, how everyone loses their mind.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
So we've all lived that.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
I just I lived at so much that I had
to make a movie about it. You know, I was
having such a meltdown. I'm like, I guess I should
make a movie about what this feels like right now.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Yeah. Can I ask with you, given that you you've
sort of done all the all the things you've done,
the writing, in the stand up, the acting, that if
you've done acting, have you.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I've done small things.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
I'm not very proud of my abilities in that arena,
but when called upon, sometimes I will hurt someone's project
by making an attempt.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, but you do other things. And you and I
also King of Staten Island, which I fucking loved it.
It's a really beautiful film. I guess my question is,
do you know what the thing that takes you to
the next thing is?
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Like?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Is it an emotional connection to something, as in when
you're like, I'm going to produce this thing, I'm going
to direct this thing, I'm going to stand up this thing, Like,
do you know what the difference is for you that
draws you in whatever role it is.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Well, sometimes it's just a love for comedy and certain
comedy challenges, like you know, hosting an award show with
all the celebrities. There is the fantasy of every kid
who loves comedy. So I'm never gonna get asked to
host the Academy Awards, but I'll get like the Producer's
Guild or the DJA, so it's like a mini version.
And you know what, no one sees it. I don't
(11:38):
let them even stream it anywhere, so I get to
do that. But a lot of times I find after
the fact I realize I made something because I was
trying to work something out in my own mind. So
I was attracted to talk about marriage because I was
trying to figure something out. Or I wanted to talk
about death and mortality and cancer, and so I wrote
(12:01):
Funny People. But I'm not exactly sure the specifics of
it till almost a few years later when I watch
it and go, oh, that's what I was working out.
I never realized till later that that's what I was
working out. Even the King of Staten Island, and I'm
attracted so many to so many aspects of what Pete's
story is, and I was very interested in firefighters and
(12:24):
the idea of sacrifice.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
That there were people that weren't like me.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
They were an egomaniacs looking to make people laugh and
have a showbiz life. They're just willing to risk their
lives to help other people. And I thought, that doesn't
seem like what I would ever write about, so that
should be where I should go. I'm interested in learning
about that. But then later I realized that I was
also dealing with divorce and step parents and feelings I
(12:51):
had as a kid, adjusting trying to get along with people,
and that there were aspects that were very personal for me.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
In terms of like, I guess this is a question
of ego, I suppose, but there's a difference between you've
done lots of things where you have helped comedians where
they're front and stage, where you've made them stars, where
you've and I assume you have lots of joy in that,
and then there's things where you do which is more
about you specifically, or more you've written directed it. You've again,
are you happy in all of those positions or do
(13:20):
you ever find yourself being I don't know jealous or like.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
I want to be doing that, I want to be Pete. Yeah,
I definitely certainly have a level deep in me that
goes you never became Bill Murray, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
I think that we all had that fantasy as a kid.
Speaker 3 (13:39):
We watched Ghostbusters and want to be a Ghostbuster or whatever.
And I certainly have had to accept that people who
are on screen are magic. They have a charisma. They
why is Bonobono? You know, what's the difference between him
and just some guy in a local band. And people
have something that's indefinable, and it's.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
What draws us to people.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
And I always think, you know, if they have a
ten of that, I might have a three, and three
is kind of entertaining, but it is.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
It's Jim Carrey, you.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Know, it's you know, it's not Jerry Lewis. And and
on some level, I think most people in the world
have to accept that they're not Johnny Carson. They're not
walking around, you know, handsome and talented and hilarious and
everyone's fascinated by them. So yeah, there's definitely moments, But
I also don't hunger for it enough and never did
(14:30):
to really try to make that happen. I was just
as amused, or close to just as amused to write
like a piece of stand up for somebody like Jim
Carrey and watch them annihilate in a way I knew
I would never have the courage to even attempt. You know,
there's a fearlessness to some of these people, to Adam
(14:50):
Sandler or Amy Schumer, where when you see them do it,
you're like, wow, that's.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
Just it's another level. It's like Michael Phelps.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yeah, versus like a high school swimmer.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Swim yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I've got so many
things to ask you, but maybe one other thing I
may ask is you also made the Zen Diaries of
Gary Shandy, which I think is a truly extraordinary piece
of work, And if people listening have not seen it,
as very much suggest you do, Like it's a very
deep dive into your late friend Gay Shanning, but it
goes through his diaries. It's incredibly intimate, and it's very
(15:25):
sad and very moving and real and honest and deep.
And I wondered, for you making that and going through
his diaries and stuff, how much of it was, Like
there's a level of kind of intimacy to that film
that I think is rare where it almost feels too much.
It almost feels like, I don't know if we should
be seeing this, do you know what I mean? It
feels so personal, and I wonder how that was for
(15:46):
you making it well.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Making it was a process of grieving, because you know,
Gary was a mentor to me, and I think in
a way until he died, I didn't really realize how
much of an impact he had on me. It just
felt like such a massive loss. And I was putting
together these little short video montages for his memorial service,
which I put together and then I quickly thought, oh,
(16:11):
there's an amazing documentary in this footage. And it was
hard to make. It took me months before I could
really listen to his voice and listen to all the podcasts.
It all just made me so sad, and I had
an idea of what I thought some of his life
was about, and I didn't know if I was correct,
because it kept feeling like it was about the loss
(16:33):
of his brother when he was a little kid, and
how his family handled it, which was by not really
talking about it, and it forced him sort of internalized
so much, and it led to a lot of issues
in relationships and trust issues, but it was a guess.
And then right near the end of the process, I
opened up a diary that I hadn't found before, and
(16:55):
there was a letter to his brother that basically said
everything that I I.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Thought it was.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
And he said just what a profound effect that his
brother had on him his entire life, and he says,
I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
It was a long letter.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
I put a little piece of it in the documentary,
and I felt like Gary wanted something like this to
be out there, but he hadn't figured it out. In
stand up and even in thinking about documentaries, Gary was
trying to crack the code on this, and to me
it felt like finishing up a project that he had started.
(17:31):
That this is what he would want you to take
from his life. He would want you to learn from
the messiness of his life. You know, he leaned Buddhists,
and you know there's a thing in Buddhism, you know,
use everything for the path, right, use everything as a lesson.
And although Gary was very private in life, I thought
(17:51):
now that he's gone, he would want people's lives to
get better as a result of him having led this life.
Although I could be wrong, he would be furious.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
We'll never know.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well, it feels like I really I watched that film
and I thought this, it feels like an act of love,
like it's a it's a real it's a love letter
to a man. But this was a very even handed.
It isn't a I don't know if this is the
right word had geography.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yeah, it's not.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
It's not meant to just kiss his ass and say
he's the greatest. Because Gary was wonderful and giving and
also a terror at times, and there were people he
couldn't forgive. He was very hard on Bob Saggot. You know,
they had a falling out when Gary sued their mutual manager,
and Bob Saggat made a joke to a newspaper where
(18:40):
he said I'm going to sue him too because I
need a Porsche, and that really hurt Gary's feelings in
a way. He never made up with him the rest
of his life because he thought that the joke made
Gary look like he was just in it for the
money and not for the justice of dealing with having
been wronged by the manager. And Gary took it way
(19:01):
too far. It was just way too far. Bob was
in this terrible situation where he was typed with Gary
and type with his manager, and his manager was really
there for him, and I'm sure Bob just nervously didn't
know what to do. And Gary, even as a Buddhist,
even as a person who should think Old Dharma's dreams
and nothing is really that important, he held a grudge.
(19:24):
And that's what the movie's about. It's not saying that
he's perfect. Sarah Silverman said, Gary needed Zen.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
He needed this. It wasn't that he was zen. He
needed Zen.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, wow, Yeah, absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
We're doing another one now about George Carlin, really a
two part documentary with my partner Michael Bonfiglio, and it
is so different also because I wasn't friends with George Carlin, so.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Right, is it easier? Is it easier to just go
this is a good bit.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
I was kind I couldn't capture it because I didn't
know him.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
But his daughter, Kelly Carlin, has done a lot of
interviews with us and she's a big part of it
and one of the producers, and we're just finishing it up.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
But it's a very.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Different life, but it's an equally deep dive and then
ultimately it's about almost the prophecy of his stand up
everything that we're going through today. He had a bit
about twenty years ago.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah, can I ask you one more thing? And then
I promise we'll talk about films. Curious again, when you
look at your career, you made a load of amazing
stuff that wasn't necessarily successful. You had a period of
stuff that people love that didn't make money or was
considered yeah, not successful. There was a whole period of that.
Then you hit big. Basically, my question is the stuff
(20:42):
you made when you weren't as successful, if I may,
is really really good in your head? Was there any
difference between what you did before and after let's call
it big success or is it just luck and timing.
Speaker 4 (20:55):
It's hard to say.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
I mean, hopefully I'm getting better, but there are things
you do when you're young because you don't know any better,
and that's why they're good. So we did The Cable Guy,
and at the time, because it was a dark comedy,
it was considered a disappointment. But yet on the Super
Bowl there's a Cable Guy commercial and we did that
movie in nineteen ninety six, so you know, so it's
(21:18):
twenty six years later that character is alive enough in
the culture that it's a Super Bowl commercial. And I
remember Carry Shanny was friends with Warren Batty and Cable
Guy wasn't doing well and got really bad reviews. And
we were surprised because we thought people would appreciate that
we were taking all these risks creatively.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
And Warren Baty said.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
To me, you don't know if a movie is good
or means anything to people for ten years after it
comes out. Then you'll know if they're still talking about it,
then you'll know where it really landed. Like Harold and
Maud was a big bomb when it came out. And
so the fact that twenty six years later people think
it's funny enough that they wanted to talk about it,
and the blue ray comes out and there's anniversaries of
(22:01):
the movie.
Speaker 4 (22:02):
But still it's a lesson because you still and I
are making a movie.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
We don't really even know how to make a movie,
and so we're we're doing all sorts of crazy things
that it's still debatable if they were the right choices
or not too light, too dark, you know what are
we saying? But I think that movie it was about
losing your mind due to reliance on gadgets, and that
is was the point, like I had literally and he says,
(22:25):
you know, let's kill the babysitter. That's the end of
the movie and him jumping to land on the satellite dish.
It doesn't work, he doesn't shut the satellite dish down,
but there is that moment where everyone's TV goes out.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Yeah, and then.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
Someone just picks up a book and reads a book.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I'd even Kyle Gass from today Shousd is the one
that reads the book.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
But that was, you know, the point of the movie.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
And then Freaks and Geeks, you know, was Paul Fiegs's vision,
and we all tried to make a contribution about what
happened to us in our childhoods in it. For me,
I always think, I don't know why that came out
so well, that there was some strange kis mid or
you know magic to that. We were just really passionate
about it, you know, and obviously Paul had a very
(23:11):
clear idea what he wanted to do, and I always thought, well,
at least that happened.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
You know, and then anything I did after it, it's
still it's still people still talk about it, it's still yeah,
and it's like.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
It's like we didn't even know what we had ever
done an hour TV show. But afterwards, I always thought,
I'm going to treat every project like the thing after
the great thing that work, so like I'm allowed to
take a big swing because Freaks and Geeks worked, so
it's okay if I fail on the next one. And
I've done that for every project since Freaking Geeks, because
(23:45):
I thought, oh, well, that's our that's our Sergeant Pepper.
So at least we did one thing amazing in our
whole careers, and everything else can be like we might
do it again, but if we don't, it's actually okay
because somehow that happened. And that's just a mental trick
for me not to put too much pressure on myself,
so I really allow myself to fail every time. I
(24:06):
don't want to be safe. That's the key, Chad.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
I've forgotten to tell you something, and I feel like
an idiot because we've been talking for about twenty minutes
and I probably should have said it at the beginning,
and I don't even know how you can take this,
but I'll just say and well, I guess we'll deal
with the phone now afterwards, I'm so sorry. I just
have to say you've died. You're dead.
Speaker 4 (24:29):
Oh man, shit, I thought that's what happened at.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Some point, Yeah, what happened? How did he die?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I was walking down the stairs in the middle of
the night because I realized I didn't bring the dogs in,
and a cat was on one of the steps, and
when my foot hit the cat, I was like, oh,
don't step on the cat, and then I just fell
backwards and wiped out. And that's how I died, trying
not to hurt my cat. And I have four cats, Like,
I don't need four. I could have three cats, but
(24:57):
my instinct was to care about the cat more than.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Me I loved. As a Hollywood screenwrites it, you died
saving the cat.
Speaker 5 (25:06):
Yes, thought about that. That's correct. That is a perfect death.
Do you worry about death?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (25:17):
I'm very bad on death. My parents weren't religious.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
They never talked about religion ever, and there was no
discussion of the afterlife ever, which has.
Speaker 4 (25:24):
Left me with a gaping hole.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
And so I'm very interested in Buddhism and the idea
of accepting everything like there is no time. My body
lives in time, but I do not live in time.
But then I never really fully believe it. But I'm trying.
I'm trying to have something, but I generally I don't
have a good enough answer that lets me sleep well
at night. So what I'm also trying to do is
accept my own debt. So like when I'm on a
(25:49):
plane and I take off, I don't like try to live.
I always say the same thing, like that was a
pretty good ride. I guess that was it, and then
I get less nervous, and I think in life, that's
what I'm trying to do, to just go like, Okay,
that was enough.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
So you're treating everything like like you treat freaks and
geeks like the next project. The next day, I had
a pretty good day, So now that doesn't matter what
happens if I die.
Speaker 4 (26:12):
Exactly. That's the only way I think to feel a
little bit better.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
You know, I really like that. That makes sense to me.
Do you think anything happens when you die?
Speaker 3 (26:22):
You know Tik nan Han, who is the big Buddhist
monk that a lot of people read his books like
pieces every step.
Speaker 4 (26:30):
He has all these amazing books, and.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
He just says, I'm not dead, like I'm in you,
I'm in your thoughts every time you breathe, I'm there,
I'm in the trees, I'm I'm the leaves.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
And I think that's a.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Beautiful idea that doesn't work at all for me to
feel better.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, not vitally compet but yeah, I don't.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
Want to I don't want to be in a leaf. Okay,
I get I get what that means.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
We're all energy, we're all changing and moving constantly, but
I would like to be here. I don't want to
be in a cricket. I don't want to be like
a piece of you know, some sort of living fungus
in dirt. None of that feels good to me.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
So I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
But someone said to me once, you have to love
the mystery, and so that's what I'm trying to do.
I'm trying to love the mystery because I think Pete
Holmes has an incredible bit about it. I'm paraphrasing and
doing it wrong, but he basically says people talk about like,
how could there be a heaven?
Speaker 4 (27:23):
And Pete said, well, how can there be this?
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And we're on a planet moving twenty thousand miles an
hour and we don't fall off of it. Yeah, you know,
like he has an amazing bit, which I think actually
is true. Who who knows?
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Well, I know, I'm glad you know. Don't worry about it.
It's actually I think you're gonna like it. There's a heaven,
straight up heaven. God say that it's filled with your
favorite thing. What's your favorite thing?
Speaker 4 (27:52):
I guess it's movies, right, I guess we're going to
talk about movies.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Can would be nice? You want to change the format,
I'm ready to guess that.
Speaker 4 (28:01):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
They're very excited to see you in heaven. They're all
big fans of all your work, but they won't talk
about your life. They want to talk about your life
through film. And the first thing they ask you is,
what is the first film you remember seeing? John Apata.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
The first film I have a memory of watching was
a movie called The Phantom.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
Toll Booth, and it was I believe it was like
real people and at some point they went through like
a toll booth and it became animated.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Correct. I remember this film.
Speaker 4 (28:32):
I don't remember much more about it.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I have located it at times where I could watch it,
but have made some choice not to watch it because
it's like so magical in my mind. But that's my
first memory of a movie. I mean, you know, my
family as a kid would buy the first VHS tapes,
so right when it was invented, we had the VCR,
(28:56):
you know, mid seventies, and we only really had about
like ten twelve movies. You know. It really was like
Godfather Part one and two, Ani Hall, French Connection, ten
to ten, and The Pink Panther. I mean, so for
a while there was like six and then eight and
and our whole life was those movies. It was like
a little kid, like a little kid, you know, ten eight,
(29:19):
I'm like watching The Godfather a lot, and then all
the Woody Allen movies. You know, we all feel bad
talking about Woody Allen these days, but truly that was
just the heavy rotation was all those movies at that
time up through Manhattan was what we would watch constantly.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Are you a ninety child?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
I have an older brother and a younger sister that
behaved like an only child a fair amount, sat alone
a fair amount.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So you wanted to find a tobe at him on TV?
Is your first memory of it?
Speaker 3 (29:50):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:50):
It was in the theater. Wow. Yeah, and did you
think I want in on this?
Speaker 3 (29:57):
I don't think I ever really thought I wanted in
on movies.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
I wanted in on stand up. That's the strange part
about me.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
I didn't really make a movie's adjustment till I was
in my twenties. I didn't pay any attention to movies
as a kid, like, hmm, I wonder what Len's copa
is using on this shot. I didn't care at all.
I liked movies, but I didn't think about being a
director ever. I didn't think about writing them ever. Really,
(30:23):
I just thought I'd love to be in that world
of the National Lampoon, people on this Saturday Night Live,
people like stripes. I'd like somehow to be in that.
I don't know how it happens, and I want to
be friends with those people. I want to have a
group like that. But I don't think I had a
clear vision. And I wanted to be on stage like
(30:43):
Jeff Altman or Jerry Seinfeld or Gilbert Godfrey. That was
the dream, to be a stand up comedian. Then later
friends would get successful. Then suddenly they'd be like, should
we try to write a movie, And I'm like, oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
I went to college for that. I think I did
eighteen months of screenwriting in USCA.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
I think I know the format. I remember I sold
a movie pitch when I was very young, and then
afterwards it seemed like, Oh, they bought it, they like it.
I went downstairs to a bookstore and bought how to
write a screenplay, and then the people I had pitched
it to walked into the bookstore and I had to
(31:24):
hide that I was buying the book.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
You should have just signed it. I'm just signing this.
What's the film that scared you the most? Do you
like being scared? You've never made a horror I tried.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
I've tried to write some horror.
Speaker 3 (31:44):
I don't know if it's my move because I really
have made some attempts to produce and help with herd.
I've never really assisted well. Bill Hayter was writing a
horror movie before years before, a train Wreck, and it
was a great idea, really was funny. But I don't
think I had the chops in the world of horror
to give the appropriate guidance to get it to where
(32:07):
it was shootable.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
But you like I don't.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
I'm not like a big fan of horror because I
don't love being in this state of terror.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
I will watch it.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I love what Jordan Peel's doing, and I've seen the
fair amount of it, and my kids like it and
they would they'll make me watch it, but it's not
where I go to for fun. I actually like a
scary movie more than a violent horror movie, so I'm
not attracted to like chopping people up. But if there's
like a movie and someone said, like it's really scary,
(32:39):
like Baba Duke, I'm all about the Baba Duke.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
That kind of thing I like a lot. But the
movie as a kid that scared me.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
The most was probably The Fog, the original version of
The Fog, and also when a stranger is calling, because
that idea of like.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
The call is coming from inside the house. Yeah, that
freaked me out.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
But the movie The Fog had these like I don't
remember if it was like pirates or something else, somebody
coming through the fog into the town to murder everyone.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
I'm sure I'm getting all the details wrong.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, no, the FuG comes in and people like ghists
are in it from the past. I don't know if
they were pirates they might have been saying this, but yeah,
they're not happy.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
They're not happy.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
But What a Stranger Calls was the first one where
I was like, oh.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
My god, yeah, when it's strange. It was amazing and
also amazing to string an hour and a half film
out of the concept He's in the house, Yes, the
coole is coming from the house, and it's like they
make it last.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
It was that Carol Kane was in there.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Yeah right, okay.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
And I also was really scared, Like the scariest kind
of movie thing was in Woody Allen Movies. He talked
about his fear of death and he had the little
Boy and he's just like, well, I don't know if
the if the if the universe expands, you know, why
is it a break apart or you know. There was
a lot of what's the point of living type jokes,
(34:04):
and as a little kid watching way too much of that,
it planted seeds of terror inmate.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
That interesting. What about crying? What's the film that made
you cry the most? Are you a crier?
Speaker 4 (34:16):
I love to cry. I'm a sucker.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
I'll cry during a commercial, I'll cry randomly during You'll.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
You'll cry in life in public in like you're not
shy about it? All right?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah, I'm okay, I mean I won't hold it in
the in the setting where it is appropriate. I mean,
terms of endearment is just a cry fast. You know
the scenes near the end with Deborah Winger of the hospital,
and then at the very end, Jack Nicholson is taking
care of the boy at the funeral, and then he
(34:49):
walks into his house and he says, you want to
see my pool, And there's something about it that just
takes you ball that this man who was all about himself,
was so involve cares about this kid. And I remember
I asked James Brooks about that scene and I said,
it's just such a magical grace. Note at the end
(35:09):
of this story, how did that happen? Is that improvise?
And he said, you know, we were going to shoot
the funeral scene and I said to everyone on the movie,
there is a roth Go museum where we are, I
know if they were in Dallas or in Texas, and
you should go look at these paintings. And I guess
he was trying to get people in the spirit of
mourning for the funeral and you should go there to
(35:30):
prepare and he said, no one went but Nicholson.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah, And thus you get let me show you my pool,
but that, you know, ending a movie on a very
small gesture of kindness. Yeah, you know, I found very
very powerful, and for some reason I cried during the
last twenty minutes of Punch Drunk Love A just ball,
like I can't stop crying.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
Yeah, you know, I connect to it so much. And
you know, I lived with.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Adam Sandler, and when he was making the movie, he's like,
I'm kind of doing an impression of you and my
brother and I would watch the movie and I could
see like what he's making fun of, which at core
was like my insecurity that he observed when we lived
together when we were in our early twenties, and I
was just like terrified around women.
Speaker 4 (36:18):
And I there's a funny moment where.
Speaker 3 (36:20):
He's like talking about he's on a date and he's
trying to explain something funny a DJ said, and he's
just bombing at the table, and I'm like, that's like
my entire early twenties. So psychically, I felt so connected
to the loneliness of that character that I would just
(36:41):
lose my mind sobbing watching the end of it, because
I was happy he fell in love even though he
seems somewhat crazy and broken.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
He seemed that well. I think I don't know what
it was on. Maybe it was on the Homes book,
cust was it with you? I don't know where. James
Brooks was talking about the end of As Good as
It Gets and how that was just sort of made up,
just improvised. They were trying to find an ending they did.
I think they had like three nights of just kind
of playing around and then Yeah, I think he just
(37:11):
shouted kiss from behind the camera and I think he
said he'll do it better next time or whatever exactly
that line is, and that's the line in the film, and.
Speaker 4 (37:19):
He's it was an improvisation from Nicholson.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, I think it was like a kind of genuine
moment of the kiss wasn't great, I'll do it better
next time, and it was like that works, but it Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
It's like the end of the graduate. Can I tell
you something Nats about that, please? I was on the
set one of those nights.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
No tell me.
Speaker 4 (37:42):
Owen Wilson, I believe was a co producer on that movie.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Yeah, James Brooks was one of the producers of Battle
Rocket and he he hired Owen to be someone that
he turned to to be part of the creative discussion
of the movie. I'm not sure exactly what ohen services were,
but he was, you know, part of the creative team
on that movie. And I went to visit the set
the night they were shooting that. No, I wasn't really
(38:09):
wearing the headphones at the monitor with mister Brooks.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
I was very far away, just terrified, but I was there.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
And James Brooks is the person then, you know, I've
always learned so much from you know, what he did
in broadcast news and so much movies Intelligion and The Simpsons,
and yeah, it's really the thing that I would try
to be very aware of is the humanity underneath the comedy.
And he always talks about that you have a responsibility
to the characters you create. I love thinking about it
(38:40):
that way, like they exist and you have to do
right by them.
Speaker 4 (38:43):
You can't be you have to come through God.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
I really like that. Tell me this, what is the
film that you love? People don't really like it. It's
not critically acclaimed, but you don't care what anyone says.
You love it unconditionally. Jodd Apataw, What is.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
It, well, the movie that I like that.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Maybe not ever everyone loves I remember I was a kid,
Caddyshack came out and it got two and a half
stars in New York News Day. It was the first
time I saw a movie that I worship get a
bad review where I understood that, oh, maybe reviewers aren't
always correct. Yes, and that was the abuse of meatballs,
(39:20):
and Caddyshack was a big thing. There is a movie
that makes me laugh so hard. Not to keep talking
about Sandler, but Jack and Jill makes me laugh so hard.
I don't know where people think it stands in the
cannon of Sandler, but I brought my kids to the premiere.
I've never laughed harder. I was just wall to wall,
(39:41):
losing my mind. And again I think the culture caught
up to it with the Pacino stuff and the doughnut
commercial and all that Doug Pacino.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
But my kids kept looking at me, like, what is
wrong with you?
Speaker 3 (39:52):
And what was making me laugh the most was I
could see in Adam's eyes the glee he was getting
from doing it.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
There was just a joy in.
Speaker 3 (40:01):
Playing the female part that it made me giggle so
hard because every choice he made I would imagine him
thinking of how to do it. So I was having
a multi level just ridiculous laugh fast watching it. And
also it's so proud to just go I'm going to
do anything.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
To make you laugh.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
That is a perfect answer. I found the same way
about That's My Boy, which yes, yeah, Claire and I
was very badly received, and fuck it's funny. I mean
we laughed. I mean, say what you like. I was
laughing on my friend.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
People don't realize how hard it is to just try
to make people piss their pants to try to figure
out what those levers are. That gets you to a
place where you really laugh hard and you're shocked, and
it just gets you in a mel Brooks riotous way.
You know. That's like my favorite thing when people are
just going, I'm going to try to destroy you right now,
(40:57):
Like I'm so excited to say jackass forever, right because yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (41:01):
Know what's coming. I know I'm going to be so happy.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
What is the film that you used to love but
you'vevoiced it recently and now you don't like it? But
that can be for personal reasons or whatever it might be.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
Author author go On al Pacino as a writer Diane Cannon,
A lot of kids it is like he has a
lot of kids al Pacino. They all have the manner
of David Crumholtz as a young actor. But as a kid,
I kind of love that movie, and I watched it
again and I thought maybe as a kid, I thought
(41:37):
I was like being sophisticated with an adult movie, but
maybe not the master work. Now. I'm not saying it's
not solid, but in my mind as a kid, I
felt like I'm smart.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
I like author, author, it's a real time and it
makes you sound smart. I get it. What's the film
that means the most to you? Not necessarily the film
itself is any good, but the experience you had around
seeing the film that will always make it special to you.
Speaker 4 (42:05):
You know, I went and saw Diner with my mom
when I was a kid.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You know, my mom was no longer with us, and
my parents got divorced, and you know, she moved away
and she was working as a waitress at a diner
in the Hampton's and she was very upper middle class.
Speaker 4 (42:25):
And was really bummed that she had to do that right,
and I was proud of her.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
I thought it was cool, like, oh my god, you're
just working hard to take care of yourself, and she
was really bummed, but was so nice and funny and
people probably loved her as a waitress, but really the
last person in the world you would think of who
would have to support herself in that way.
Speaker 4 (42:46):
And she took me to see diner, like after she worked,
and she fell asleep the entire time, and I just.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
Remember watching Diner and my mom was as exhausted I'm
trying to make a living, but was for me, even
though she had no guests in the tank, took me
to diner.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
How old were you at the time.
Speaker 4 (43:05):
I was probably fourteen or fifteen.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
So you stayed with your dad and your mom lived
the way. Is that what happened?
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah, if I may ask, And that wasn't something that happened.
So it was all very It was all very traumatic.
But when I think of moments where my mom was
really trying to be there for me, you know. And
then that became a movie that influenced me an enormous
amount because Barry Levinson, you know, he's a great storyteller,
and he told personal stories about his childhood, about his friendships,
(43:35):
and I think that he's much more influential than people
realize that all of this Tarantino speak and Seinfeld that
a lot of the earliest incarnations of that was created
by Barry Levinson in Diner. Yeah, you know, that's where
we saw just people talking about a roast beef sandwich. Yeah,
(43:57):
Paul Risers, you know, asking who's better mathis or Sinatra,
and and.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
He used comedians, you know, he had Paul Reiser and
he let him.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Improvise, which I was very influenced by, and I thought, wow,
Paul Reiser wrote most of his lines. That's incredible. But
it made it so real to how people talk when
they when they hang out. I think later movies and
TV did that, but I can't really think of places
I did it as well before Diner.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
And it also does see like it's not for nothing,
as in there's that incredible. I think it's one of
like the all time great scenes with Daniel Stern and
Ellen Bucking where he's saying, you never asked me about
the B sides of all these records. You never asked
me about the B sides, And it's, you know, on
the surface, it's a funny conversation about I care about
stuff you don't care about, but really it's about their
(44:44):
marriage it's a it's an amazing bit of writing that, Like,
you never asked me about the B side. I don't
give a shit. She's like, what do I care? I
don't care about the B side.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
Yeah. And the sport the sports tests.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah, Steve Gutenberg makes his fiance take a test and
he won't marry her.
Speaker 4 (45:00):
He doesn't know everything about sports.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
It's so good. I didn't know that about your mom.
And it's I mean, it's explained all the things that
you've been asking the question of why do you do comedies?
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Like I get it exactly. Yeah, it all at all
thoughts coming together.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
What's the film that you must relate it to? Chad Apata?
Speaker 3 (45:26):
I mean I related to Fast Times at Ridgemond High
as a kid. I liked seeing the hierarchy of the
high school right when we did Freezing Geeks pol Fig.
He never like looked at Welcome to the Dollhouse in
Fast Times as influences, but to me they were my
influences as his partner. And I always thought about, you know,
(45:46):
the kid who worked at the movie theater and his
friend sold the concert tickets and and and he was
the nerdy, the nerdy one, and I was like, I
feel like that kid.
Speaker 4 (45:56):
I'm that kid at the movie theater.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
And was very meaningful to me, and that the people
in it spoke the way we spoke, and Judge Ryan
Holds character, it felt like someone had captured what it
felt like in the mid eighties to be in high school.
And actually it was written by Cameron Crow, who went
undercover in a high school and wrote a book about
what happened and that then.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
He wrote a screenplay of the book.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
But he really did it. And he's one of the
people I interviewing Sicker in the Head and I asked
him a lot of questions about that.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I'd like to know about that. All right, Okay, I'm
going to read that section next. John Apatow is the
one people He's the one people tune in for what's
the sexiest film You've ever seen? And is it by
Derek in ten?
Speaker 3 (46:40):
I mean, that was a movie that I don't remember
any of because I love Dudley Moore. I just remember
the kid thinking I wish there was less adult stuff
in this and more silly Dudley more interesting.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
I didn't like Hunger for the.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
Adult Blake Edward's aspects. I was like, I like Dudley
Moore to going Nuts a little bit, but more Arthur
type humor. Yeah, but as a kid, I think the
sexiest movie is probably Body Heat. Yes, I mean that
was the one where you're like, well, that's that's as
that's as hot as a as a movie can get.
(47:17):
I could not. I could not create scenes like that
in a movie. I get uncomfortable when I have to think,
have anyone be sexy or sexual? I'm working through my
own issues when I'm trying to present those types of scenes.
But when I look at that, I think, well, that
is a commitment. Lawrence Kasm, the great Lawrence Kasm made
that movie, And I don't know, I can't think of
(47:39):
another scene in anything that's like that. What what else
would you do? What else would even compare? I'll email
your list? What what?
Speaker 1 (47:51):
As a sub category to this question, traveling Bonner is worrying,
why don't I film? You found a rousing that you
weren't sure if you should?
Speaker 3 (47:59):
That's a very good question, you know, I might say
Sharky's Machine. I might you remember Sharky's Machine that the
bird read? Maybe it was Rachel Ward in Sharky's Machine.
I mean, there was this Canadian movie. I can't ever
remember the name of it, but it was about a
(48:20):
guy who was like an extra, you know, he was
atmosphere and movies I want to be actor wasn't doing
well and he plays a cop in something and he
steals the uniform and starts like going around town acting
like a cop and like being more and more aggressive
about that, just like telling people to get out of
the way, you know, giving people take it its even
(48:42):
though he's not a cop. And I remember there was
some sort of romance in that movie with a Canadian
actress and I can't remember it. I can't remember what
it looked like, but I remember being fascinated by it.
And someone's gonna message you and tell you what that
movie is. It's Canadian, Canadian movie.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
It's not the film Let's Speak Cop.
Speaker 3 (49:00):
No, it's like a drama. It's like a troubling version
of Let's Speak Ops from like.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
And it's not Miami for this. It's not Miami Blace.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
It's not Miami bluesm okay, that.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Is a good mystery for us. John Apatow, what is objectively,
objectively the greatest film of all time might not be
your favorite, but objectively it's the greatest.
Speaker 3 (49:21):
I mean, when I think of perfect movies, it's always
like there's like two or three. I can't get it
exactly right. Being there is usually on the top of
my list. I feel like it's a miracle of a movie.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
It holds up.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
I mean, I think all through the Trump administration people
referenced it, and it's a yoursy Kazinski novel that it
was based on. I think my grandfather did the development
for John Frankenheimer, the director, when he was like in
his sixties or late fifties, and it was a period
with it. I think they claimed that they owned that
book and then they lost the option to it. But
(50:00):
Peter Salers couldn't be funny the scenes with him and
Shirley maclain, the scene where they're like watching television and
he's trying to copy what's on the TV and she
thinks like they're having a sexual moment. I mean, it's
the greatest comic set pieces of old time, and it
has much deeper meaning. And then I always think about
Cuckoo's Nest in terms of the I mean terms when
(50:20):
deermon and broadcast news are always right up there, and
I always think about the movie. In addition to like
Godfather movies and Goodfellas, there's a movie called a prophet
ye movie that's I just when it ended, I'm like,
he can't do it better than that?
Speaker 4 (50:37):
You can't it is?
Speaker 3 (50:40):
You know?
Speaker 1 (50:40):
So which is your answer? Gun to head, I'd say
being there, I'd say right there, you can have it
chut out as out. What's the film you could or
have watched? The Mice Iver and over again?
Speaker 3 (50:52):
The movie that I've seen more than any other movie.
That's a good question. What if I watched over and
over again, then I want to watch over and over again.
Maybe oddly groundhog Day another perfect movie. Yeah, you know,
(51:13):
we made a movie called Year One with Harold Ramis,
and we were all excited to just be around him
because he loved to answer questions. He would tell you
all the stories, very happy. He was the nicest man
in the Greatest hang. But that is as good as
a comedy film can get. And you can watch it
over and over again and always find new things about it.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, I have a question for you when you're making
films and I think I've read something, correct me if
I'm wrong. I think this is what you said in
an insuew and I really liked it. Is that someone
was saying, oh, your films are so long, while they
say long, cut them down, and you said something like,
because I like all the bits, I don't want to
cut it down. Is that true? Is that right?
Speaker 3 (51:53):
Well, you know there's usually a moment in the editing
where you realize as a whole, this might play better
at an hour and forty eight, but the sixteen minutes
I would have to cut to get you there is
the thing that makes the movie really good.
Speaker 4 (52:10):
And so I feel ahead of my time in not
caring about time.
Speaker 3 (52:15):
Because people will sit down and watch like seven episodes
of Yellow Jackets in a row, So why won't you
watch a two hour and seven or eleven minute movie.
Speaker 4 (52:23):
And you know a lot of.
Speaker 3 (52:24):
People will be like, oh, it's you know, comedies need
to be ninety minutes. So comedy is worth less of
your time than a spaceship or a superhero. I remember
someone said to me, I think it was James Brooks.
He said, you know, when your movie is a little
bit longer, you're saying these people are worth your time.
Speaker 1 (52:44):
That's very nice.
Speaker 3 (52:45):
And that's how I like to look at it. And
I have watched movies later and go, God, I wish
I found that ten minutes. And some sometimes they asked
me to cut it down because I have to because
it's going to be on ABC or something, and they're like, well,
you only have this much time, so you need to
cut twelve minutes for it to fit on network television,
and I do, and everyone's while I'm like, yeah, it
(53:06):
might be better that way.
Speaker 1 (53:09):
When you're when you're making I can't remember this from
How often do you think when you're in the edit
did you watch the film? Let's let's take this is forty,
which I love, By the way, how often do you
think you watched that film from beginning to end in
the edit, rather than working on bits where you just
sat back watched it as a whole. Do you have
any estimate?
Speaker 3 (53:28):
You have to be careful because your brain can only
handle so many full watches. So I'll fix hunks of
it for months and months, having maybe watched a long
two hour and forty minute assemble at the beginning of
the process once and then I won't watch it all together.
I'll just watch, you know, they cut into like six reels,
and then at the preview when I watch it with
(53:50):
an audience.
Speaker 4 (53:51):
That's when I watch it.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
I rarely watch the whole thing by myself without an audience.
But then when I'm with the audience, I really like
rest up and you get focus, and I try to
see if I can have the experience of the audience,
which is hard because you lose all the mystery and
the tension of I wonder what'll happen. So in a way,
as a filmmaker, you never get to watch it the
way another person feels when they watch it, so you
(54:13):
almost can't edit your movie correctly.
Speaker 4 (54:15):
You're trying to edit your.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Movie based on math, based on story dynamics that you're
being very intellectual about.
Speaker 4 (54:21):
But when someone watches a movie, you know, sometimes you think, oh.
Speaker 3 (54:25):
I wonder if they're gonna be worried if they're gonna kiss,
But really what they're worrying about is he's gonna murder her.
Like you don't know what people think when they don't
know what's coming. And sometimes you'll test the movie and
they'll be like, I really thought he was gonna kill her,
and you're like, I didn't intend that at all. I
thought you look like he just liked her. And that's
something that you have to have a conversation with the
(54:47):
crowd to say, where was it boring?
Speaker 4 (54:50):
Where's it slowing down? How are you experiencing this?
Speaker 3 (54:54):
I'm actually excited because there's a lot of my movies
I haven't watched in ten years or more, and I
can begin to to try to watch them to see
if I can get a feel for them as an
audience member.
Speaker 1 (55:05):
Amazing A, jat apta, what's the I don't like to
be negative for too long. What's the worst film you
ever seen?
Speaker 3 (55:11):
I think the worst movie I've ever seen was a
kids movie. I used to have to watch all the
kids movies when my daughters were younger, and there was
a movie called Brats b R A t Z Yes,
And every second of it was like being in a
dentist chair. It just time was moving backwards, and it
(55:33):
all felt like an excuse to make a toy into
a movie.
Speaker 4 (55:36):
It felt like a like a money play.
Speaker 3 (55:39):
And I could be wrong, but on that particular day,
I suffered more than I can remember ever suffering in
a movie.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
And did they love it? Did your girls love it?
Speaker 4 (55:49):
I don't even think they loved it. You know, lot
of times when you take your kids to movies.
Speaker 3 (55:52):
It's just a Sunday time killer, Like your kids are
bored and you're like, Okay, an hour and a half
of this will be this movie, then we'll go get
Chinese Fit and so you you want have seen a
lot of movies that you would want to see. But
it is sad because now that my kids are, you know,
nineteen and twenty five, I don't go to kids movies anymore.
Speaker 4 (56:09):
I don't watch them. And I did.
Speaker 3 (56:11):
I watched them for twenty years, everything, every single kid's
movie that came out. And like I was home the
other day, I'm like, should I watch this cartoon? And
I did, and and I'm like, you should just start
watching kids movies alone. Is that weird and creepy to
just sit by yourself watching those movies?
Speaker 4 (56:28):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (56:28):
You'd have to ask my neighbor if she thinks he's
weird and creepy that I do. Well, you're in comedy,
you're a comedian. You've made some of the great comedies.
What film made you laugh the most? Jut up, it's happen.
Speaker 3 (56:42):
I mean the movie that makes me laugh more than
any movie. I mean, there's a couple of experiences I
remember watching Young Frankenstein in a theater at a revival
house twenty years ago, having never seen it, with a
crowd and the place.
Speaker 4 (56:58):
Just losing their shit.
Speaker 3 (57:00):
Walter just the laughs were crazy and that was fun.
That the biggest laughs I remember in a theater. One
was Airplane when it came out, like the Weekend came out.
So I saw it as a very young man and
it was a barn burner. It just it made everyone
so happy and people laughed so hard. And the other
(57:23):
one I remember the two others, something about Mary. I
went to see with Ben Stiller on opening night, just
in the Hiding in the back in Santa Monica, and
that was so fun.
Speaker 4 (57:34):
It's so fun to see it with Ben.
Speaker 3 (57:36):
I was just so happy for Ben and it it
such It inspired so many movies and so many of
our movies. But the one that was the craziest was
we went to see borat the first time. Sasha showed
his friends to get thoughts and notes, so it was
like twenty five minutes longer than it ultimately was. They
(57:57):
were set pieces in it that he cut out. There
was a whole scene like shooting a porno that was
just so crazy and troubling. I may have hit some
DVD extually, I don't know. And the scene where he
has the naked fight, there was nothing covering the ball,
so it was way longer and make way more aggressive
(58:21):
about like just the guy's balls and penis on Sasha's face,
just rubbing on his face. And you know, it was
a true fall out of your seat, you know, split
up whatever you're eating or drinking moment.
Speaker 4 (58:34):
And then when it ended, George Meyer from The Simpsons
was there.
Speaker 1 (58:39):
Wow, and.
Speaker 3 (58:41):
He just said, I feel like I just listened to
Sergeant Pepper for the first time. That's my second Sergeant
Pepper reference. Yeah, And I thought, well, that's the nicest
compliment you ever can get, Like we knew the form
had been reinvented. Yeah, and that was exciting.
Speaker 1 (58:55):
That's a perfect answer. Okay, John Aptout, You've been amazing.
I'm so grateful for you. Thank you for giving me
your time. However, when you were walking down the stairs
late at night and one of your four cats, you
about to tread on it, and you thought, in perfect
screenwriting structure, save the cat, so you moved your foot
and in doing so, you fell down the steps over
(59:17):
and over and over. Again, and it turns out you've
got five flights of steps because you live in a
very big house, and you just kept rolling down it
like a old fastened stunt man. But you didn't quite
have the way to land in a way that wouldn't
hurt yourself, and you broke ninety three percent of all
the bones in your body. At the bottom of the stairs,
you were dead, land on your head, dead, and the
(59:38):
cat padded over walked over your body when it had
some milk. No idea what I gone on? I'm walking past.
I got a coffin with me. You know what I'm like,
I pop in on the upper towels. I'm like as
everyone as everyone doing, says anyone seen jud I just
wanted to say low, And they went, oh, I think
he's having a nap at the bottom of the stairs.
I go to a boom stairs, I go, I don't
(59:59):
think that's a nap. You're in a fucking state. You're
all over the shop. So I have to get you.
But you're all in bits, like your limbs are all
twists and stuff. I have to break off bits to
try and get you in this coffin. I have to
end up chopping you up, I get I get the
whole family involved. We said, can I get bring some knives?
We chop you all up, pop you all in the
coffin absolutely jammed in there. There's more of you than
(01:00:20):
I was expecting. The coffin is full. There is only
really enough room in this coffin for me to slide
one DVD into the side with you, for you to
take across to the other side. And on the other side.
It's movie night every night. One night it's your movie night.
What film are you taking to show people in heaven
when it's your movie night?
Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Damn, that's a that's a thing I'm gonna say. It's
just what popped into my head. Animal House. Wow, Okay,
you know there's comedy, there's music, there's a lot of things.
Speaker 4 (01:00:50):
Because you know, if that's the only one does have
a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Going on in it and no one else has brought it,
you'll be welcome in heaven. People gonna have a party.
Chad out, You've been fucking brilliant. Is that anything you
would like to tell people to watch, listen out for
and read?
Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Accept Well, The sticker in the head is my book
for charity for eighty six that is out and you
can buy it now on online or at a real bookstore.
Better to get at a real bookstore, yes, but you
could get an advance copy now and then the Bubble
on Netflix, and then the two part George Carlin documentary,
and then I disappear for about two three years. So
(01:01:27):
I'm going to disappear. I realized I did too much
over the last few years, and now I got it.
I just shut it down. Nothing but poems that I
don't show anyone that I burn after I write.
Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
Though, John apt thank you so much for this. I
really appreciate you. I hope you have a lovely death.
Good day to you, sir, you as well.
Speaker 4 (01:01:46):
Thank you. That's fun.
Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
So that was a rewine classic with Judd Apatow. Be
sure to check out the Patreon page Patreon dot com
slash Brett Goldstein, where you will find extra chat and
video at various tiers and otherwise. If you fancy leaving
a note on Apple podcasts, that would be lovely too,
but make it a review of your favorite film, much
more fun and way more interesting to read. Everyone involved.
(01:02:14):
Thank you so much the Judd for greatness and presence
on the podcast. Thanks to SCREWBASPI and the Distraction Pieces Network.
Thanks too. And this is where Brett thanks me for
editing and producing the podcast, so I say it is
a pleasure. Thanks to iHeartMedia and Will Ferrell's Big Money
Players Network for hosting it. Thanks to Adam Richardson for
the graphics and Lisa Lydon for the photography. We will
(01:02:35):
be back next week with another Rewine classic.
Speaker 1 (01:02:37):
But that is it for now.
Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
Brett and I and all of us at Films can
be buried with hope you will very well. In the meantime,
have a lovely week, take some deep breaths, and now
more than ever, be excellent to each other.
Speaker 3 (01:03:01):
Best post back progos pas, best, the best post the
best pot bot programs, best blast backcras procop chin best,
the best post back procos plays
Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Best past pot crash ban best, best post back proct
Host
Brett Goldstein
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com