June 1, 2022 • 51 mins
LOOK OUT! It’s only Films To Be Buried With! THE RESURRECTION!
Join your host Brett Goldstein as he talks life, death, love and the universe with the UK's favourite film critic and full time Wittertainer MARK KERMODE!
...or is that 'Witter-Take-r'? Heritage listeners will answer that one... Folks, Brett is joined once more by Doctor Kermode for a perfect follow up to his previous encounter, as they cover much ground yet uncovered, including loads of cool personal bits and pieces (within reason), as well as tremors of Kermodian rants (kind of), and some excellent horror theories and thoughts that always entertain and inform. One takeaway from this I guess is that you should watch Jeremy. Or not? But definitely The Exorcist. Ultimately, do you, but also think What Would Mark Kermode Do? And then make your choice. Enjoy! See you all SOON! Huge love from all of us on Team Films To Be Buried With. X
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look out. It's only films to be buried with the Resurrection. Hello,
and welcome to films to be buried with the Resurrection.
(00:21):
My name is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian and actor,
writer director Tamarine Man and I love film. As Ralph
Waldo Emerson once said, don't be pushed by your problems,
be led by your dreams. If you want to make
a film about a love affair between a stand up
and an opera singer who have a singing puppet baby,
you very much should. Sparks did and it was fucking brilliant. Yeah,
(00:41):
I love that film. That's fair enough, Ralph Waldo. Good point,
well brought up. Every week I'm vite a special guest over.
I tell them they've died. Then I get them to
discuss their life through the films that meant the most
of them. But not this week. This week I use
my newly acquired shamanic powers to bring back a former
guest from the dead and ask them twelve new questions.
(01:02):
And this week it is the return of the Wonderful
Podcast to Write a critic, presenter, and documentary filmmaker mister
Mark Kermode. Check out the Patreon at patreon dot com
Forward Slashback Goals Team, where you get an extra twenty
minutes with Mark where we talk plain film secrets and
many more wonderful things. Plus you get all of the
episodes uncut, ad free and most of them as a video.
(01:23):
Check it out over at patreon dot com. Forward Slashbreck
Goals Team. Tickets are selling fast for the big huge
live films to be Buried with live at the Hackney
Empire on July second. Make sure you get your tickets
for that from Plosive dot co dot uk and Hackney
Empire dot co dot UK. So I said we were
going to take a break, but here is the last
(01:45):
episode before I'm going to take a break from the podcast,
probably just a month off, who knows. Don't panic. It'll
be fine. We'll all be together at the live show
on July second. But this is a very special episode
that are recorded with Mark Kermode last week and I thought,
I can't hold this off. You guys need it. He's brilliant.
You'll know who Mark Como Di is. You should listen
(02:07):
to his new podcast, Comoda Mayo's Take, which is a
brand new podcast which is exactly the same as their
whole podcast and it's brilliant and you'll love it. This
was such a lovely time. I really enjoyed talking to
Mark again. I was very grateful for his time, and
I think you're really going to love it. So that
is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy
episode two hundred and one of Films to be Buried
(02:29):
with the Resurrection. Hello, and welcome to Films to be
Buried with the Resurrection. It is I Brett Goldstein, and
I am joined today by a writer, an actor, a
(02:53):
movie star, a podcaster, a double podcaster, a triple podcaster,
a non fictionalist, a fictionalist, a lover, a cold swimmer,
and a musician and a skiffler and man, please welcome
back to the show. Can't believe he's come back. It's
(03:15):
only him here, he is. It's mister Mark. Hello, Brat.
What's what's the actor thing? I don't think I'm an actor?
Am I Are? You're in films? Are you're in Benjamin? No?
But I mean as me that doesn't count. Yeah, but
that takes him serious acting, as you know from Gordon Ramsey. Yeah,
that's like me and Simon Mayo were better at being
me and Simon Mayow and Gordon Ramsey was at being
(03:37):
Gordon Ramsey, which which was remarkable, although weirdly enough, just
yesterday I was I was doing something yesterday in the
studio and I bumped into Simon Amstell, who I haven't
seen in forever. And of course, you know, usually if
you want to get touch with getting a DM and
on Twitter, because Simon doesn't do Twitter, and he's got
a Twitter account, but he only ever puts up very
sort of you know, short statements on it. And we
(03:58):
talked about Benjamin and he doing it. He's doing another
film now and so we talked about it and he
and I said, yeah, I was very I was very
pleased with it because me and Simon did come out
of it looking like me and Simon, because I had
worried that we were going to come out of it
looking like Gordon Ramsey. It is hard to play yourself.
I wouldn't. I would, I mean, because if you have
thought about that, like it should be easy, but you'd
(04:18):
be so self conscious if you're sending that, yeah, just
do what you do, Suddenly you're questioning what your hands do,
what your face does? I mean, they wonder Gordon Ramsey
was a wreck. I mean, yes, it is. It is
really good. I've done it more than once though, because
I did it, at least I played a sort of
I played a version of myself Darning. I played a
version of myself in the absolutely fabulous special. I was
(04:41):
some ARC critics sitting on a yeah, and I had
a line that had a rude Dublon tondra about first
being attracted to her Bush, which I have to say
I didn't understand when I said the line. It was
only when I saw it and go, oh, that's sorry.
I didn't get it. And then there was a thing
I always go back to this, because there was a
thing on extras. Yes, when Ricky Gervais was doing one
(05:04):
of the it was it was him being slagged off
on Newsnight Review, and it was me and Mark Lawson
and Germaine Greer. And then there was only only a
tiny little bit in the background, you know, slagging him off,
only a tiny little bit, and then he could he
did another one, like a sort of viral thing in
which he's on the sofa as well, and then we
had to be ourselves for that as well. So we
have a big career playing myself on screen to stretch
(05:27):
big news for you. Many congratulations on your new podcast,
and I love and is so different from the other podcast.
Tell me about the key differences that really really really strike.
It's a real bold, bold new concept. Because I was worried.
I was like, oh man, they really going for it.
(05:49):
They really mixing this up. And it is lovely to
have you back. And then when you go in a month,
it felt love It was exactly a month. Yeah, it
was a month, and you know, and it was I mean,
actually it was quite nice to just have a you
have a little bit of time out because usually, I mean,
I know that we're off sometimes, but you know, usually
it's you know, it's kind of one thing off the
obviously Simon's got his show that he was doing on
(06:10):
Greatest Hit. So yeah, it was nice to have actually
have a break and then come back again. But yeah,
what what has stressed me out? Because there is one difference,
which is you are now also talking about TV as
someone who himself has a film podcast. I barely have
time for the film. You're adding in TV to the mix,
how you know, but okay, it's not okay, Just to
be clear about this, Yeah, we are doing some TV
(06:33):
we are doing. There's a whole thing on you know,
the second podcast we just recorded. We got back to
Simon getting off his bike about the phrase film adjacent TV,
because we were trying to explain we're not we're not
TV critics, We're just not. We will do some TV
and it was usually some TV that has a kind
of you know, a connection to what we know about
through films like for example, Essex Serpent, which is directed
(06:54):
by Claire Barnard. So consequently, you know, okay, fine, I
mean usually in the space of any show we'd review
me in a six seven movies, we'll probably do five
or six movies and a TV thing, you know, But
it's not it's we're absolutely not reviewing TV. You won't
be getting the updates on what's happening in east At
east Enders, I absolutely would love your updates on that day.
(07:16):
You said you're going to get a lot of message.
Hang on a second, you think that way, but casually
that would be fair. It's funny because when I was young,
when I was in Manchester in the eighties, I used
there is a point to this story. Instantly, I used
to do my laundry on a Sunday afternoon in a
There was a laundrette in Whitworth Park, I think it
(07:36):
was called, and it was a lawn, it was laundrette,
and then it had next to it had a kind
of a sitting room. You were not sitting ro room,
but you could wait in and it had a telly
in it. Well I didn't have a telly because I
was in my kind of you know, militantly I'm not
having a telly period. But it turned out that the
east Enders Omnibus was on Sunday afternoon. I think it
(07:57):
was between two and three, and I realized after a
while that I was deliberately doing my laundry between two
and three. And my friend feels like, what what you know,
what's the thing? You know, we've got a no, I've
got to do the laundry between two and three. And
that was I think it was. That was what I
think is the kind of hate, because it must have
been you know, ange and dirty, dirty dad, that's right, Yes,
(08:19):
that's right, yeah, yeah, and all that stuff, and I
you know, and I used to kid myself that I
just you know, I'm doing the laundry, but I wanted
to making your clothes dirty so you had an excuse
to go back. Yeah, no, I've it needs another ten
minutes in the dry, Mark Kermode, I have brought you
(08:41):
back to life because I like you. You have been resurrected.
But what point in your life would you like to
come back to now or sometime in the past. Is
there a wrong you would like to ride all right
to wrong? Let us know now, Mark Kermode. Please, it
was really funny while you were doing that Voice of
(09:02):
God thing, you went all glitchy, so it was like
it was like the matrix, it was like the breats.
So if I could come back at any time, when
I come back to the present or to the past
in your honestly to the present, yeah, honestly, I'd come
to right now because I mean not because everything's hunky dory,
because like any like any other time in your life,
(09:24):
you know the things that are going well and things
that aren't going so well. But um, I've got this
sounds like a really naught thing to say, but I've
got a really lovely family, and the last year has
really shown me just how lovely they are. And I
think that one of the one of the things that's
kind of strange is that you can spend quite a
(09:45):
lot of time just going about your business and not
realizing how much you know, love and affection you have
around you, and then you look back and you got
I'd love to go back to that point. I'd love
to go back to that point, you know when whenever
and actually I'm I am in one of the rare
moments in my life when as I said, it's not
(10:06):
it's not everything's plain sailing. It isn't by any means,
but just over the last year, it's been a bit
of you know, it's been it's been a strange year.
And one of the things that has been demonstrated to
me is that the family, and I mean not just
my my wife and my kids, but also my you know,
my my family, extended family. I've just all been really
really lovely, solid, decent people. And you know that thing
(10:30):
about you only really know people when the you know,
when the ship hits the fan. I've just had very
good reason recently to discover that I really like how,
you know, what, what what a great you know, what
a great family I've got around me. So I'd be
very happy to come back to this because not only
but it's not just because they've been great now and
they haven't been It's because I'm noticing it now in
a way that I probably haven't done before. Kermaid, You're
(10:52):
going to make me cry like Mark Kermaid's watching any film.
That's really I mean, that's the best dance of every
for that, I think that's Beau. I'm really I'm really
glad that you are in the present appreciating the present.
That is unusual, isn't it. Yeah. And it's also the
thing that's the hardest to do, isn't it. You live
in the moment. Yeah, try, you know, just just have
(11:15):
a go really really hard. Here is embidist here there.
I think I asked you this last time, but it's
still has done. It is me. There are films that
you watch again. Sometimes you'll you'll talk about a family
go I went to see it again, and often that
film was three and a half hours in, and I think,
(11:36):
but there's a kind of well, if I'm writing a
lead review for The Observer, okay, I would like to
have seen it twice now. Obviously sometimes I can't, but
if I can, I will. And the reason is that
if you're going to write something, it feels kind of
you'll you'll understand it. It It feels like journal of record
(11:56):
when you write things that when you say things, they're
in the ether and they're like until somebody transcribes them
and then you go, excuse me, I didn't mean that.
But when you write things, it's kind of and particularly
with the observer, because it's the observer, it sort of
feels journal of recording. And so I do like to
watch something twice to just to check and to and
because often the first pass is to do with, you know,
(12:17):
getting the feel of the film, and then the second
pass is to do with understanding it. Yeah, and then
quite often if you've watched the film twice and got
a lot out of it, it's quite easy to step
back into it, you know, it just is. And also
the films that I love, you know, like the Richard
Gear Breathless and Duel in the Blue Cat and all
those stuff that I've talked about elsewhere, they're just they're
(12:38):
comfort blankets for me, and I love them and they
never let me down. And I so there's always time
to do it, even when there's no time to do
anything at all, there is always time to just revisit.
And of course the great thing is you know, you
can dip in and out. Yeah, I was late doing something.
I just I was staying just I was. I was
in a glamorous travelodge the last two nights, and I
(13:00):
was up late finishing work and I had to be
up early in the morning to do the thing. And
I did made the mistake of turning the television on
and they were showing the Poseidon Adventure. I just watch.
I'll just watched five minutes, you know. The next thing,
you know, an hour's gone. Anyway, Well you have come
(13:23):
back to now, well done, they're living. I wanted to
talk to you about films and whatnot, mostly films the
first thing that they would like to know. And they
have missed here and there the very excited that you
come back. I mean, imagine if this was what happened
with Jesus, he pops back and everyone or anyone I
was going is what was the last film you saw? Anyway?
What was the last film you saw? The last film
(13:44):
I saw would have been whatever I saw screened on Tuesdays.
Oh so it must have been The Quiet Girl, the
Irish movie, which is wonderful. I loved it. I absolutely
loved it. You know it was like a kind of
little oasis of joy in the middle of a slightly
strange week. And I knew my colleague Wendy Eyed, had said, look,
it's very good and you know you'll like it, because
(14:05):
you know, as I like selling CMR and that sort
of thing. But I just I went. It was a
screening at the screening was at the Cursin Soho, but
it was down you know, it was down in the in.
I think it was a screen three wherever it was.
And it was really odd because it was only about
five people there because I imagine that other people had
seen it already. And then in the middle of it,
somebody came in I think must have just come in
(14:26):
off the street and came in setting well about and
very very loudly fell asleep and snored. But I don't
think they didn't come in to watch the film. They
just come in to get to get warm or something.
And it's an indication of how good the film was
that it bothered me not one jot that somebody was
getting a nice warm kip while we were getting on
with watching the film, because usually I'd be sufferable work
(14:46):
we're making noise. But you know, no I thought it
was love you have you seen it? No? I literally
just read about it today and it's the first I've
heard of it. But so good, so lovely, right, It's
it's touching and heartfelt and understated, and it's it's fantastic
central performance by this this young actor I've seen him before,
which is great, and it's really well directed, and it's
(15:09):
just you know, you just go, yes, that's it, Make
make that, make that film. That's a that's a good.
And I came out of it feeling really like, oh, yeah,
you know, if I have one of those a year,
I'll be good. You know, it's really nice. Yeah, No,
I thought it was great. Oh and then I definitely
see that. Mark MD, who do you think should play
you in the film of your life? Well? You know
(15:31):
the answer this, right, I do know this answer, and
your Answood daysondiais yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a it's
a it's a it's a it's a fantasy thing for
me because you know, I know I've talked about this
at great length, but I'll never tire of it. When
I was at school with Jason, Jason was the person
who I wanted to be and I, you know, I
was a teenager and I had I think basically I
(15:53):
had a teenage crush on him in that way that
you can become completely infatuated with somebody, doesn't matter your
gender or your you know, sexual orientations, nothing to do
with that. You can you can basically fall in love
with somebody because you just they impressed you so much.
And of course it's funny because Jason now says, your look,
your version of me is completely wrong. Like you thought
I was cool and aloof but I wasn't any of
(16:15):
those things. Actually I was an outsider. I'd come down
from Liverpool. I didn't know anybody. Jason talks about changing
his accent so he fitted in in North London. And
of course he's you know, he's a chameleon when it
comes to accents. But because we're sort of with the
same age and yet he looks half my age, I
said to him the other day, I said, Jason, can
I ask you a question? Because I'm completely you know,
I'm complete, completely nick Lie. As you can see from this,
(16:38):
I said, Jason, do you die your hair? He said,
of course not. They die it for me. You know. Yeah,
I'd love to be played by Jason. It will never happen. Though. Well,
here's the thing. He could play you, sure, and he'd
do a very good joys a very good actor. But
you've proved that you're very good at playing a setup.
So I think it might have to me you I'll
(16:59):
do I'll do it myself. Yeah, yeah, Jason could probably
do you. Actually, I'm just thinking that, you know, Yeah, yeah,
I mean this is funny because on this I'm looking
at you on this camera, you've got this very kind
of action man look about you that you've getten the
in the in the black and white. You know, action
man with the same length beard and hair. You know,
the with the eagle eyes and the grippy hands that
(17:20):
you're using now to use your coffee cup and the
gripping hands. But you know he, Jason could play anyone,
to be honest, Jason can play anyone. What is the
most romantic film you've ever seen? And is it near that? Well,
you know, in a way, you've kind of you've you've
committed the Simon Mayo sin of asking a question to
(17:42):
which the answer is yes. I mean, I mean the
thing is, you know, in absolute terms, I love Splash.
You know, I've gone on about Splash a lot. I
absolutely love Splash because it's just you know, I loved
it before Quentin Tarantino loved it all right, you know
everyone loves Splash. Yeah. Well, I went to see Splash
(18:02):
at the Wllington City City when I was in Manchester,
and I went to see it, like, you know, two
or three times in the same week. And it's just
with the mermaid comedy. What what? What is? What's the thing?
But I love Tom Hanks in that film. It's just
so he was so great. And then of course I
then saw I think they re released Bachelor Party and
(18:22):
it was terrible, except for the bit when he does
the thing with all the burners are currently occupied, which
was funny, and then it's lovely that now, all these
years later, Tom Hanks has turned into the person that
Simon and I regularly cited the best interview in the
world because he does that thing about he makes you
think that for the time that you're in the room
with him, you are the only person that's in the
room with him, but near dark will always have the
(18:43):
upper hand. Because it was that. Even though it was
the first film that Linda and I saw together, I
thought it was a date she says it wasn't. But
you know, it's you can't ever unhinge the thing that
you that, you know, the time that you saw something
in I mean, like, I remember, the best breakup movie
I ever saw was Hell Racer to see Hell Raiser,
which I'd already seen, but I went to see Hell
Razor at the end of a sticky relationship. And I
(19:06):
just remember going to taking myself to the Sulfur Keys
to see Hell Razor and it was just like laden
stuff and pins in the heads and you know, and
all that stuff, and it was just like, yeah, that's
the money, that's what we want. Good. Yeah, I'm so
over it. But yeah, no, Near Dart will always be.
(19:26):
It will always be the thing for me because because we,
you know, we saw it together. And I remember and
I remember thinking, God, I actually thinks I'm really cool.
I brought her to this grungy vampire movie. You know,
I didn't. I didn't take a Star is Born or
or you know or something like that. I took it.
I took her to see a film because I kind
of because I respect her, you know, and I'm sure
(19:47):
you know what she turned to that when she was
actually thinking as this is an interesting film. Who's he? Oh? Yeah,
that's right. Yeah, I really love that. This one is
a real interesting question for you, particularly given what we've said.
What is the best film you've ever seen that you
never want to see again? Oh? Wow? Well, I mean
(20:08):
there are things like there are endless documentaries about animal cruelty,
which I think are brilliant, but I wouldn't want to
see them again because because because they just you know,
you know, I just find it heartbreaking because I'm a
bleeding heart liberal. I know loads of people who whose
lives were changed by seeing Cowspiracy, for example, but you
wouldn't want to see it again. Yeah. I think the
(20:29):
Act of Killing is an absolutely existential soul shaking experience,
and I cannot imagine having an evening free and thinking,
you know, I'll do that. But I mean, you know,
I did watch Act of Killing twice because I watched
it once and then I had to review it for
The Observer and I had to review I wanted to
review it for the Observer, and so I went back
(20:51):
and watched it again and I just found it utterly
soul shaking, I mean genuinely soul shaking. But I wouldn't
want to watch it again. I don't need to him.
It's pretty much burned into my brain. Come and see.
As another example, isn't it the clean off? You know,
it's all right? Yeah, you know once it's kind of
it's kind of fun. The thing I would cite is
there's a film called Martyrs, which is a horror movie.
(21:13):
And I've said this before. It's the closest I've ever
come to walking out of a film without walking out
of the film, And by the time I got to
the end, I was really glad I hadn't walked out,
but I never wanted to see it again. And I
always cite it as a kind of interesting case of
it got so close to having gone too far for me,
(21:34):
and then and then it didn't. And I'm glad I
saw it through the closure. But I've only seen it once,
and I wouldn't go back and watch it again. Are
you able to articulate the difference? I sometimes wonder if
it's intent, But I've heard you talk about it, and
I think I feel similarly but less than you, as
in you like goring and nice stuff happening. And then
occasionally I hear you talk about a film and you'll
(21:56):
be like that is a horrible It was like and
it's another horror and its blood and guts and it,
but you sort of find it disgusting and an apparent
And can you articulate if there is a common theme
of why that it's the difference between one that you
really enjoy and one that you're like, this is yeah,
I mean I'll have a go. Yeah. I had a
kind of a rule for a while, this thing about
(22:18):
you know that in my experience, certainly when I had started,
when I started out working in film criticism, I was
a horror fan first and foremost. So when I first
started trying to get interviews and that kind of thing
that it was, it just turned out that the people
I went to were horror filmmakers. Yeah. I went to
Los Angeles in the late nineteen eighties because I've been
working a little bit for Time Out and New Musical
(22:38):
Express freelancing, but it was just writing film reviews and
I needed bigger things. I needed features. So I went
to stay with my friend Tim polecat In he lived
off of Hollywood, and I thought while I was there,
I'll get some interviews, and I sent out a bunch
of facts. As it would have been then people saying, look,
I'm a freelancer from the UK, I write for these publications.
I can't guarantee that the thing will end up in
(22:58):
any of these publications. Would you give me half an
hour of your time? The three people who gave me
an hour of their time was Wes Craven, who made
Last House and the Left, arguably one of the most
terrifyingly unpleasant films ever made. Sam Ramy, who made The
Evil Dead, which was on the you know the Video
Nasties sort of hit list and was described one of
the BBFC examiners said that after watching it they felt
(23:20):
that they'd been physically assaulted. And Linda Blair, the star
of The Exorcist, which is the movie that sent people
running out of theaters and into churches. They were all lovely.
They were really really lovely, thoughtful, nice, funny, sweet. You
would have trusted them with your life. And then later on,
you know, Guna Hansen who played leather Face in Texas
Chainsaw Maska, lovely blow just big, big bear of a guy,
(23:44):
you know who would you know they kind of personally,
would you know, give you lift you up over a
wall if you needed, you know, that kind of thing.
And then simultaneously I interviewed some other people who were,
you know, the head of some big corporations who make
some big family entertainment, and they were absolute assholes, Like
really really, I did an on stage with one who
(24:05):
just will remain nameless, but somebody who was pretty high
up in a studio which had made, you know, some
of the most salable kids entertainment in the world. And
I thought he was a contemptible oath and just sneery,
just like had no appeared to have no love of
movies in him, did not appear to did not appear
to love movies at all. And so the thing with
Gore cinema is I like movies that that provoke a reaction,
(24:29):
that provoke a response, and that works for me. I
like horror movies because they take me out of them.
You know, they in the moment, you know you're alive
at the moment. But I think that there's a thing
about that movies have an attitude that can be adventurous
or scary, but it can also have an attitude which
can be mean spirited. And I remember talking to Nigel
(24:51):
Floyd once about Peter Jackson's work. I like very much.
But he made this film Meet the Feebles, and I
thought that Meet the Feebles was a really mean spirited
film and it was interesting to discover that. Of course,
it was borne out of a great conflict that he
had been trying to get another project off the ground
and had been frustrated and ended up doing Meet the Feebles.
And you can feel, yeah, the anger in that film,
(25:14):
which is very weird for Peter Jackson because he's not
an angry filmmaker, but that film feels you know, you
you know what I'm saying. It means it's it's there's
something about that film. I know exactly what you mean.
It's really horrible. It's really it's really it's really just nasty.
It's made with love, is it? That's that's and there
we go and there that's hitting the nail on the head.
(25:37):
And if you compare that to say, yeah it is
and you know the George Romero Night They're Living Dead
and Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead movies,
those are made with with with absolutely love. And then
our Gento I think would be the same thing. You know, Argento,
if you talk about you know, his move from Jello
into horror and Suspiria front of us, all those things.
(25:57):
These are films that are made with by somebody who
your way of making the film. You can feel it,
you can feel it. And that's why partly I think
why Darry used to get so offended about his movies
being cut because he loved them. He loved the films,
and then he couldn't understand why somebody said, well, I
loved it, but I got to cut this bit off it.
You know. David Kronenberg once said that having your having
(26:17):
your film cut was like sending a child to school
and it being sent with a sent back with one
of its fingers cut off because they said, yeah, it
wasn't it was fine, but we didn't like that yet.
So anyway, there you go. It's a very Cronenberg image.
But so yeah, I think it's it is the film
made with a sense of celebration and love and you know,
you know, or adventurous and he's perfectly possible to make
(26:39):
a nihilistic film, but without it being mean spirited. I
think mean spirited, you know, is the thing that I
don't like. That's it. You've got it. I sound so sanctimonious. No, no,
I completely agree. I do think it's It is as
silly as it may sound, it is if you make
anything with love, you can take The Exocist is made
with love. It's fucking amazing. You can feel there. Yeah,
(27:00):
I get why you love The Exorcist. And then yeah,
I don't have to name all the films not maybe
we love that you can't feel it, you could sell.
What is the best action film you've ever seen? Well?
I love Point Break? I mean I just love Point Break.
I mean I know, I know it's a kind of
it's you know, it's immediately you are in hot fuzz territory.
But you know you've seen Bad Boys too, You've seen
(27:22):
point On which one you want to watch first? Have
you ever shot a gun in the year? We're going? Ah?
But the point is Point Break is one of those
movies like die Hard, that you go into it your
expectation is never going is not what the film is. Okay, So,
I mean I knew that I liked Bigelow, but Point
Break was like, wow, you know, this is a surfing
movie and Keano Reeves apparently just jumped out of a
(27:45):
plane without a parachute, and the you know the chase sequence,
you know when they're doing the thing, and then you
see how they did it at the camera with the
thing and the hoop on the end of a following
that film barrels at such a pace. It's absolutely breathtaking.
And I also remember seeing die Hard for the first
time because people have said to me die Hard is
really good. And I wasn't a Bruce Willis fan. I
didn't know Moonlighting from a Hole in the Ground, and
(28:07):
you know, i'd heard that it was, you know, cowboys
and Indians in the Towering Inferno. And then you go,
it's so good. It's so good. It's so good. And um,
I mean obviously it's you know, it's got great script
and great performances and Rickman is wonderful. But just as
an action movie, there is a piece of action cinema.
It's great. But I think Point Break has got the
edge because Point Break is a film which you know,
(28:29):
it's land, sea and sky. It's like how many terrains
can you run? And it's like all of the yeah
it is. It's the surf and turf with you know,
with with a bird, you know, with a surf, turf
and a buff. Anyway, yeah, good, you can have it
(28:50):
of all the films that exist, if you had to,
which film do you think you could have made? And way? Well,
you know to start with the provider. Yet, as I've
said to you before, Brett, I couldn't make a film
that you couldn't make a film. You have it that
I couldn't make a film because I couldn't make a film.
So in a way, it's an impossible question to answer,
(29:11):
because all the films that I love I couldn't have made,
and all the films I don't like I couldn't have
made either, not because I would have done them better,
because I would have done them worse. I have always
said to people, Look, if I criticize your film, please
understand that it's coming from somebody who couldn't have made
the film. You know, I couldn't have made over sex
Rugsuckers from Mars. I mean, I really couldn't have made
even that low level. But of all the films, do
(29:31):
you mean, which one would I like to have made?
I guess what the question is and is what's the
sort of film that you think represents? Maybe it's another
way of saying, like, what film do you relate to? Like?
Have you I've seen a film accasing whether that a
funk I could have written that, as in I couldn't
have written away sensibility. Why they're like, that's well, I think,
(29:52):
you know, I think that, Yeah, okay, I think in
that case the answer again, I'm sorry to do the
old hits, but I'm an old man and I'm not
changing my mind about much anymore. I think Jeremy is
the film that felt like, you know, because bear in mind,
when I saw Jeremy, I was I was twelve. I
think you know. I saw it on a double bill
would Breakout Past, and it was a supporting film, and
I didn't know it ending about it, and then it
(30:13):
broke my heart in a thousand pieces. And then I
never saw it again for thirty years, but I remembered
every single thing about it. And I think that the
reason is it's that have you ever seen that film
Velvet gold Mine Todd Haynes, Yeah, Todd Haynes film. And
there's a bit in it when I think it's Christian Bale,
I mean Christian Bale and I batman Christian Bale. Yes,
(30:36):
he's watching the television and he sees in the in
the conceit of the film, he basically sees Bowie or
something like Bowie on the telly and he jumps up
and he goes, that's me, that's me. And he's some
you know, he's like a kid in flat but he
looks at it, he goes, that's me. And although it
clearly isn't him, it's you know, because he's in a
(30:56):
front room watching it tellly and this is some glam
rocker on on on the talent. But when I saw Jeremy,
it was like somebody had you know, that's me. And
because it isn't me. But I don't live in New York.
I don't go to Juilliard. You know, I was never
in that I was too you know, I was young.
I was never in that position. I'd never been in
love and had my heartbroken, although I did feel like
(31:17):
I was in love and had my heartbroken by the film.
And then years later, year decades later, when I became
friends with Alan Jones, it turned out that Alan, I love.
Alan's great and it turned out that he absolutely loved
Jeremy in the same way. Now, Alan and I are
very different people. Our lives are very different, our histories
(31:38):
are very different, our ages are very different. You know,
I mean Alan was, you know, he was. Alan's always
been this kind of a joke about Alan is. You know,
if in any sort of thing, like any film you
ever see about punk rock, Okay, if you moved the
camera slightly to the left, there's Alan. And in this
new film Wake Up Punk, he's actually in it. And
of course he's in Great Rock and Roll Swindle. And
he was working at Sex with um you know, Westwood
(31:59):
and Claren and he was friends with all that stuff.
And then he was he's the star of the Tensee C.
He's the roller skating star of the Tensee C music
video whatever it meant many beats per minute, it is.
And he was to you know, so we've had very
different lives, but we both saw Jeremy and when that's
me and and it demolts Rest. And then years later
I interviewed Robbie Benson about it. Robbie Benson went on
(32:22):
to be a famous performer, and he was, he's the
voice of Beast in Beauty and the Beast. Yes, yeah, yeah,
And I said, the thing about the film is that,
you know, it's like it's like falling in love. It's
exactly like falling in love. And he said, well, of course,
you know what I mean, and who was the co star?
We were falling in love. Actually in that film, what
you see is, you know, he's realized that you just
(32:43):
you must have such such warm memories of it. He said, no,
it was quite horrible to make, really, And then he
told me that it was these stories about just what
a really really difficult, like really properly unpleasant experience it
was to make a film which is full of innocence
and joy and and and I kept I kept thinking,
(33:04):
please stop, I don't want to know. It was, you know,
fallings out with the directors in the cinema to anyway,
you know, but it goes to show, you know. I
remember talking to Terry Gilliam once about Baron Munchhaus, and
of course famously Baron Munchaus had this incredibly painful birth.
But when you look at the film, it's light and delicate, funny,
you know. So yeah, so yeah, but Jeremy, I think
(33:25):
would be the film even though I never had any
of those experiences. I'm not that boy, you know, I didn't.
I don't live that life and never did. But like
Jeremy speaks to me on a on a profound level
I felt. I felt the same way when I saw
a ladybirds like, I'm Ceranian and obviously there we go.
I met Searcheronian for the first time on Monday. She
was in the beer Fi. I'd done a show and
she was in the beer Fi and she was sitting
(33:47):
there and and somebody said she was talking to somebody
I know, And I did the think that I kind
of went over and I and I sat down. I
you know, I studiously didn't, you know, And I just says, Hi, Searcha.
I'm like, she's, oh, hi, Hi, nice to meet me.
And I said, oh, you know, you know Brendan Gardner,
the you know, the dialect coach. But oh yeah, I
love Brendan. I said, oh, he's a good friend of mine.
You know, what are you doing? I was literally just
(34:10):
trying to get look, I'm you know, we know similar people.
She's so she's so great in everything. She really is.
She's fantastic. This is an interesting one. And I don't
know if you have an answered. What is the film
you have pretended to like to impress people? Wow? What
(34:31):
is the film I've pretended to like? Well, I will
confess that I pretended to like Citizen came before I
saw it, so it was a huge it was a
huge relief when I actually did see it and I
thought it was good. It's quite good. Yeah, yeah, you're say, yeah, nobody,
of course. And the great joy of it is is
that it's funnier than than you expect. And so you know,
(34:53):
you go in thinking, here we go, a great movie
you ever made? Oh god, and then of course it's
it's funny and it's satirical and news on the up
and all that stuff, which I which I really loved.
I remember I reviewed a film once. The title of
it may come back to me years later. I think
it was called Last Images of the Shipwreck. I think
that's what it was called. And I reviewed it for
(35:14):
Time Out. And sometime later Alan Frank, who was a
fellow film critic, he was doing something, he was doing
some cataloging. He said, he said, I read your review
of the Last Images of the Last Images of the Shipwreck,
and I went, oh, wow, yeah, it's like twenty years ago.
I mean, he said, yeah. He said, that was the
best example of somebody pretending to like a film that
(35:35):
I've ever read. So evidently, according to you know, to
an ounce a third party, and I'm more inclined to
believe it. Evidently I was pretending to like that because
it made me seem clever, but it literally said, yeah,
it's the best example of somebody pretending to like a
film I've ever read. Well, I think if I'd rather
(35:58):
a critic pretended to like, say they think that exactly exactly. So,
what is the film you've never seen that you think
it's mad? You've never seen it? There's an academic game,
you know, Linda, my wife is a professor of film,
And there's an academic game which is a kind of
(36:18):
game of a Dare game, which is the book that
you should have read that you haven't read, that you've
been teaching for twenty years, and it's kind of you know,
it starts at something fairly obscure, and then each each
person who admits has to has to crank it closer
to the what you mean you've never read Janeair, You
know what you mean, you've never read Emma. It's like
that kind of level of thing. But the film I'm
(36:40):
astonished that I haven't seen. I've never seen Wild Horse, Hank,
that is mad? What's the film you know what that
is no what is wild Horse Hank? Wild Horse Hank
is a Linda Blair film and I've never seen it.
And it's her favorite film that she made. Then, that
(37:00):
is really And I love Linda Blair. I think she's
she's great and I've never seen it. And the reason
I've never seen it is because when I was in
my Linda Blair completest period in which I'm trying to
get everything she'd ever done, it, wild Horse Sank was
just not available. But she said it's the one of
all her films, it's the one she loves the most.
And I interviewed her. I interviewed her, and I think
I lied. I think I said, oh, yes, I love
(37:23):
it too, because I wanted to impress her. What I mean,
you've got to track that down there. What is the
film that you love that you don't expect anyone else
to like? Well, Jeremy is a very good example. I won't.
I mean, in fact, like so much so that we
(37:44):
have three copies of Jeremy in my house and none
of my family have ever seen it. Really yeah, and
they can't and they can't they won't. I won't allow
them to see it because I couldn't deal with them
not liking it, and they think it's a very good
chance that they wouldn't like it, because I think there's
loads of things that were probably deeply wrong with it,
and so you know, I mean it's it's just I mean,
(38:06):
Simon won't watch it, and that's the joke because he
thinks the joke is funniest if he doesn't watch it.
But it's also entirely possible that he would watch it
and just think it's an absolute piece of trash. So
I can completely understand, Like if somebody said to me,
should I watch Jeremy two parts, One part of my
brain would go, yes, it's a lot it's me, and
then the other part of peopuld go no, I do
(38:28):
really know, yeah, because if they like Jeremy, they don't
like you. Oh yeah, And actually, but I think that's right.
I think there's a part of me that couldn't take
that level of judgment. You know, Yeah, it's too much. Yeah,
I don't know how you take with it anyone that
doesn't like a film that I loves my heart, I mean, yeah,
well I always used to make that joke about if
(38:49):
you don't like Mary Poppins, we won't be friends. And
I don't mean it as a joke. I mean, if
you know the person who I was talking about, the
studio head of the people that make you know, family entertainment,
but I thought was a man with a black hole
where his soul ought to be. I told him that
I cried. I told him that I cried every time
I watched Mary Poppins. And he said, well, you've just
made a fool of yourself. Ah, but I can't say.
(39:11):
I can't tell you who it was. I can't tell
you who it was. Okay, what's the film you would
show a lover? That's right, a lover A lover's brett.
Well to go back pre Linda, I really have lovers? Then, okay,
(39:31):
what is the film you would show a partner as
a test to see if you should be together? Mary Poppins. Great.
I mean, you're tying yourself up and knots it because
in a way, I'm kind of you know, it's like
I'm boringly predictable with these answers for Mary Poppins. I
do mean it. I genuinely mean it. It's like, if
you don't get Mary Poppins, we aren't going to get
(39:54):
on because so much of you know, so much of
of what what I believe in. It's Mary Bobbins. Yeah,
you know, Mary Bobbins is fucking amazing. It's just it's
just a joy. It's it's it's about everything that's good
in the world, and it's the best. It's the best
explanation of the financial crash I've ever seen on film,
(40:14):
and the songs are wonderful and it's just transcendent, and yeah,
it's it's you know, I'm sure we talked about it, right,
but yeah, yeah, you said, mister Bates is the one
that made me. It's lovely. It's lovely, which is why
did you have to make him so horrible? Yeah, it's
just great. What is the film that made you the
most uncomfortable? Martyrs did make me uncomfortable. The Last House
(40:39):
and the Left made me feel really really queasy, but
partly because Last House and Left was kind of a
test of that, how much do I actually believe in
free speech? Because I was, you know, I was involved
in defending it when we're trying to get it uncut
through the BBFC. And it's the thing that I had
always held was Last House and leftn't be released uncut
(41:01):
because it isn't a salacious piece of nastiness. It should
be released uncut because it's an important piece of salations nastiness.
You know, there are some people who say, well, lost
as to let this an exploitation movie is actually about
the reality of Vince. No, it's not. It's an exploitation movie.
It was originally called sex Crime of the Century. You know,
it's it's an exploitation movie. If you think it isn't,
you're kidding yourself. In the same way as if you
(41:22):
think that people defend films often by disavowing what they are, okay,
And the great example of me is Cruising, the William
Freaking film. Cruising would say, well, you know that film
is you know, it's got this really sort of salacious
mix of sex and violence in it, to which the
answer is yes, it has. And if you pretend that
that's not part of its appeal, then you're just lying
(41:43):
to yourself about the film. I mean, it might be
a you know, an existential murder mystery and all those
other things, but it's also got this incredibly tactile sleaziness
to it that actually is very very cinematic, and I
think it's an interesting film, but I partly think it's
an interesting film because it's got you know, all this
you know, it's stuff going on that's really kind of
you know, it's a film that feels like it's enjoying itself. Yeah,
(42:07):
you know, in the scenes in which it's apparently meant
to be not enjoying itself, you know what I mean.
It's so I think it's it's a kind of very
revealing movie like that. So, but the times that I've
been I think in the case of The Last House,
I felt uncomfortable because I was going into bat for
it to make a case for it being released on cut,
and so I did have to watch it quite a
few times, and every time I watched it go, you know,
this is this is really nasty. It's a really nasty
(42:30):
from even where's Craven thought the same thing where he
thought it was about something. He thought it was important,
and I think it is important because in terms of
the evolution of horror, it is about something. But it's
also completely nasty. It's got these weird bits of slapstick
comedy in it, which just completely I said to Craven ones,
what's that about? It? Said, Well, I felt the audience
needed a break, really, you know so, so I think
(42:53):
that made me feel very, very uncomfortable. The things that
I usually feel most uncomfortable in though, films that try
to co opt me into into something that I don't
believe in, and I it most regularly happens in kind
of bro humor, which I don't find funny. I just
don't find it funny. And I hate the idea, you know,
(43:14):
with the Entourage thing was you know that they said, well,
it's every remember the thing is, it's every man's dream.
It's every boy's dream to everything it isn't It wasn't mine,
and I'm not alone. I know loads and loads of
men who don't have that dream. Not only do I
not have that dream, I would literally want to floss
my head if I if that dream ever got into mine.
And I hate the fact that the film is going
(43:35):
all right, ay, you know, we do really don't we?
And that makes me feel uncomfortable because I feel like
just sitting here watching this quietly rather than standing up
and being outrage. I once saw a play. It was
when I was at Managest University. It was some kind
of bit of agit prop and I think it was
maybe it was a break piece. I can't remember, but
(43:56):
there were these Regularly the actors would stand at the
front of the stage and say will you intervene? Will
you intervene? And that second time they did it, somebody
stood up and said yep, and they went and it
was like what the fuck? And it was just like, yeah,
they're good for you, good for you. Can we go
home now? Exactly what? Well, it's pretty Mary Poppins. What
(44:21):
is if you could show a child one film, what
would he Well? Poppins obviously, and I mean it's not
an if I did you know, I mean my my
daughter and I must have watched Mary Poppins one hundred
times in a Year's the age you started her child
and Mary Poppins's I think Georgia first saw it when
she was about three, Okay, I think that's about right.
(44:42):
Because it's got songs and an animation, you know, so
it's a it's a kind of it's a gateway drug.
And we had it on a on a DVD, but
it was a flipper. You had to get up and
turn the thing over. So it's exactly the moment when
she says, Michael stopped stravging, you know, because he's got
one foot in the gutter and one foot on the thing,
and then it would stop, and then you'd have to
get up and turn it over, and then there was
the tea party on the ceiling. But I told her
(45:04):
that was kind of like the intermission, so you couldn't
fall asleep, you know, you had to be awake to
turn the thing over. So we just watched it over
and over again. But it's it's it's so great because
she would see it as as a child and I
would see it as an adult, and we'd both be
enjoying it for completely different reasons. I think the Ghibli
films are similar. I think that you know, you can
watch things like Spirited Away. I mean, in fact I
(45:26):
did when my daughter was still quite young. I was
given a videotape of Spirited Away because they wanted to
do a piece about it on Radio four, and they'd
ask me what I thought about it. It's just before
the kind of you know, Ghibli became everything to everyone, yea.
And I sat and watched it with my daughter and
she loved it, and I was completely baffled by it.
(45:48):
I mean, the narrative which the bathhouses and the what
and the thing and the pardon you know. But she
just loved it, and I was, you know, and that
that gave me a way of going, well, it makes
sense on some fundamental level that's beyond narrative, you know.
I like that Ponyo Ponyo is the other great example
of that. Somebody, somebody catches a fish that just turns
(46:09):
into a person, but it doesn't really, it's sort of
still a fish. What's the film? I forgot what it's cool,
but I really really loved it, and you loved it too.
It's quite recent. What's it called Where the turtle is?
There's no red turtle? The turtle? And I really loved
that film and it's really beautiful and I don't get
any dat all. No, it's it's funnily enough. The bloke goes, hey, hey, yeah,
(46:35):
just arrives on the island and that's it. And I
was wondering, I have no experience of children seeing it.
Did you see that with your children? I wonder how
it plays. I have seen it with my children, because
I saw it. I loved it. I interviewed um, who's
the director. He gave me one of the original drawings
of the Turtle, which I have signed on my wall,
(46:56):
and then you know, and then I just showed it
to my family, my family, but they were older kids
at that point, but you know, but yeah, it's just
like you have to watch. This is the best thing ever. Yeah,
it's really, it's really something. Mark per Moode, you have
been wonderful, so wonderful. I've decided I'm gonna let you live,
but thank you. I might kill you again one day
(47:18):
in the future, so just before I do, there's a
will here, and you need to leave one DVD for
the people behind in case you happen to die again.
Just one DVD for any for anybody. Yeah, I feel
loved ones. Well, okay, I would leave Petite Mammal because
(47:41):
because it has out, it has I think one of
the most brilliant depictions of childhood and adulthood and the
bit when the mum says, you know, you're not responsible
for my sorrow. M It's just I mean, I just
think that filmed. It's just it's amazing, eighty two minutes
(48:03):
long and every piece of human life is in there. Yeah,
you know, so i'd say that, say that wonderful, that's wonderful.
I also think it's nice you've left for the future
where people will have no attention spans. You've left a
short film that was very thought mark. I really really
(48:23):
appreciate your time. I've loved doing this again. Thank you,
it's fun. Thank you for having me back. Bro. I
really appreciate I appreciate you. If there's anything you want
to table to listen, look out for a read, or anything,
please say yeah. Well, you know, I hope that people
will will listen to the podcast. I hope that they'll
they'll find us, you know, on the new podcast, and
as you said, not radically different show. Really, I mean
(48:46):
it's it's I mean, it's like things are changing. It's
a different thing. The people's popular front of Jude and
the popular people's front of jud It's that, you know,
it's that that level of divisiveness. But you know, I mean,
I would really like it if people listen, if people
found the podcast, and they appear to be doing so,
and that's lovely. But I don't ever take it for granted.
(49:06):
I do not take it for granted because Simon and
I would like to carry on doing it. We love
doing that show, and we can only carry on doing
it if people listen to it. So I know this
sounds needy and pleady, but you know, please download it. Yeah,
I think they. I think they will and I'm sure
if they're listening to this they already do. Mark made
God bless you. Thank for your God bless I would
(49:27):
thank your band stopped them recording. Thank you. That was
a real pleasure. Thank you. So that was episode two
hundred and one. Head over to the Patreon at patron
dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein for the extra twenty
minutes of chat, secrets and video with Mark. Don't forget
to get your tickets for the live show at the
Hackney Empire July second at hack the Empire dot co
dot uk or Placed dot co dot uk. So listen.
(49:51):
Last week I said that I was going to take
a break from the podcast. I had so many nice
messages from loads and loads of people, and I would
like you to know that they all meant and awful
lot to me. At the moments. Were very bad about
taking his break. But I'm going to take a little break.
But there will be more podcasts, I'm sure. So hold
on tight. Listen to old ones. If you miss him,
(50:13):
come see the live show. I appreciate you all and
I will speak to you soon. Thank you so much too,
Mark for giving me all his time. Thanks to creepy
spipeping the distracts some pieces of network. Thanks to Buddy
Pieces for producing it. Takes to Acost for using it.
Takes to Adam Richardson for the graphics. Lisallied him for
the photography. See you very soon, but in the meantime,
have a lovely week, and please, now more than ever,
(50:35):
be excellent to each other. Thank you. Crust uncrustam was
(51:04):
untrust was uncrustam
Look out. It's only films to be buried with the Resurrection. Hello,
and welcome to films to be buried with the Resurrection.
(00:21):
My name is Brett Goldstein. I'm a comedian and actor,
writer director Tamarine Man and I love film. As Ralph
Waldo Emerson once said, don't be pushed by your problems,
be led by your dreams. If you want to make
a film about a love affair between a stand up
and an opera singer who have a singing puppet baby,
you very much should. Sparks did and it was fucking brilliant. Yeah,
(00:41):
I love that film. That's fair enough, Ralph Waldo. Good point,
well brought up. Every week I'm vite a special guest over.
I tell them they've died. Then I get them to
discuss their life through the films that meant the most
of them. But not this week. This week I use
my newly acquired shamanic powers to bring back a former
guest from the dead and ask them twelve new questions.
(01:02):
And this week it is the return of the Wonderful
Podcast to Write a critic, presenter, and documentary filmmaker mister
Mark Kermode. Check out the Patreon at patreon dot com
Forward Slashback Goals Team, where you get an extra twenty
minutes with Mark where we talk plain film secrets and
many more wonderful things. Plus you get all of the
episodes uncut, ad free and most of them as a video.
(01:23):
Check it out over at patreon dot com. Forward Slashbreck
Goals Team. Tickets are selling fast for the big huge
live films to be Buried with live at the Hackney
Empire on July second. Make sure you get your tickets
for that from Plosive dot co dot uk and Hackney
Empire dot co dot UK. So I said we were
going to take a break, but here is the last
(01:45):
episode before I'm going to take a break from the podcast,
probably just a month off, who knows. Don't panic. It'll
be fine. We'll all be together at the live show
on July second. But this is a very special episode
that are recorded with Mark Kermode last week and I thought,
I can't hold this off. You guys need it. He's brilliant.
You'll know who Mark Como Di is. You should listen
(02:07):
to his new podcast, Comoda Mayo's Take, which is a
brand new podcast which is exactly the same as their
whole podcast and it's brilliant and you'll love it. This
was such a lovely time. I really enjoyed talking to
Mark again. I was very grateful for his time, and
I think you're really going to love it. So that
is it for now. I very much hope you enjoy
episode two hundred and one of Films to be Buried
(02:29):
with the Resurrection. Hello, and welcome to Films to be
Buried with the Resurrection. It is I Brett Goldstein, and
I am joined today by a writer, an actor, a
(02:53):
movie star, a podcaster, a double podcaster, a triple podcaster,
a non fictionalist, a fictionalist, a lover, a cold swimmer,
and a musician and a skiffler and man, please welcome
back to the show. Can't believe he's come back. It's
(03:15):
only him here, he is. It's mister Mark. Hello, Brat.
What's what's the actor thing? I don't think I'm an actor?
Am I Are? You're in films? Are you're in Benjamin? No?
But I mean as me that doesn't count. Yeah, but
that takes him serious acting, as you know from Gordon Ramsey. Yeah,
that's like me and Simon Mayo were better at being
me and Simon Mayow and Gordon Ramsey was at being
(03:37):
Gordon Ramsey, which which was remarkable, although weirdly enough, just
yesterday I was I was doing something yesterday in the
studio and I bumped into Simon Amstell, who I haven't
seen in forever. And of course, you know, usually if
you want to get touch with getting a DM and
on Twitter, because Simon doesn't do Twitter, and he's got
a Twitter account, but he only ever puts up very
sort of you know, short statements on it. And we
(03:58):
talked about Benjamin and he doing it. He's doing another
film now and so we talked about it and he
and I said, yeah, I was very I was very
pleased with it because me and Simon did come out
of it looking like me and Simon, because I had
worried that we were going to come out of it
looking like Gordon Ramsey. It is hard to play yourself.
I wouldn't. I would, I mean, because if you have
thought about that, like it should be easy, but you'd
(04:18):
be so self conscious if you're sending that, yeah, just
do what you do, Suddenly you're questioning what your hands do,
what your face does? I mean, they wonder Gordon Ramsey
was a wreck. I mean, yes, it is. It is
really good. I've done it more than once though, because
I did it, at least I played a sort of
I played a version of myself Darning. I played a
version of myself in the absolutely fabulous special. I was
(04:41):
some ARC critics sitting on a yeah, and I had
a line that had a rude Dublon tondra about first
being attracted to her Bush, which I have to say
I didn't understand when I said the line. It was
only when I saw it and go, oh, that's sorry.
I didn't get it. And then there was a thing
I always go back to this, because there was a
thing on extras. Yes, when Ricky Gervais was doing one
(05:04):
of the it was it was him being slagged off
on Newsnight Review, and it was me and Mark Lawson
and Germaine Greer. And then there was only only a
tiny little bit in the background, you know, slagging him off,
only a tiny little bit, and then he could he
did another one, like a sort of viral thing in
which he's on the sofa as well, and then we
had to be ourselves for that as well. So we
have a big career playing myself on screen to stretch
(05:27):
big news for you. Many congratulations on your new podcast,
and I love and is so different from the other podcast.
Tell me about the key differences that really really really strike.
It's a real bold, bold new concept. Because I was worried.
I was like, oh man, they really going for it.
(05:49):
They really mixing this up. And it is lovely to
have you back. And then when you go in a month,
it felt love It was exactly a month. Yeah, it
was a month, and you know, and it was I mean,
actually it was quite nice to just have a you
have a little bit of time out because usually, I mean,
I know that we're off sometimes, but you know, usually
it's you know, it's kind of one thing off the
obviously Simon's got his show that he was doing on
(06:10):
Greatest Hit. So yeah, it was nice to have actually
have a break and then come back again. But yeah,
what what has stressed me out? Because there is one difference,
which is you are now also talking about TV as
someone who himself has a film podcast. I barely have
time for the film. You're adding in TV to the mix,
how you know, but okay, it's not okay, Just to
be clear about this, Yeah, we are doing some TV
(06:33):
we are doing. There's a whole thing on you know,
the second podcast we just recorded. We got back to
Simon getting off his bike about the phrase film adjacent TV,
because we were trying to explain we're not we're not
TV critics, We're just not. We will do some TV
and it was usually some TV that has a kind
of you know, a connection to what we know about
through films like for example, Essex Serpent, which is directed
(06:54):
by Claire Barnard. So consequently, you know, okay, fine, I
mean usually in the space of any show we'd review
me in a six seven movies, we'll probably do five
or six movies and a TV thing, you know, But
it's not it's we're absolutely not reviewing TV. You won't
be getting the updates on what's happening in east At
east Enders, I absolutely would love your updates on that day.
(07:16):
You said you're going to get a lot of message.
Hang on a second, you think that way, but casually
that would be fair. It's funny because when I was young,
when I was in Manchester in the eighties, I used
there is a point to this story. Instantly, I used
to do my laundry on a Sunday afternoon in a
There was a laundrette in Whitworth Park, I think it
(07:36):
was called, and it was a lawn, it was laundrette,
and then it had next to it had a kind
of a sitting room. You were not sitting ro room,
but you could wait in and it had a telly
in it. Well I didn't have a telly because I
was in my kind of you know, militantly I'm not
having a telly period. But it turned out that the
east Enders Omnibus was on Sunday afternoon. I think it
(07:57):
was between two and three, and I realized after a
while that I was deliberately doing my laundry between two
and three. And my friend feels like, what what you know,
what's the thing? You know, we've got a no, I've
got to do the laundry between two and three. And
that was I think it was. That was what I
think is the kind of hate, because it must have
been you know, ange and dirty, dirty dad, that's right, Yes,
(08:19):
that's right, yeah, yeah, and all that stuff, and I
you know, and I used to kid myself that I
just you know, I'm doing the laundry, but I wanted
to making your clothes dirty so you had an excuse
to go back. Yeah, no, I've it needs another ten
minutes in the dry, Mark Kermode, I have brought you
(08:41):
back to life because I like you. You have been resurrected.
But what point in your life would you like to
come back to now or sometime in the past. Is
there a wrong you would like to ride all right
to wrong? Let us know now, Mark Kermode. Please, it
was really funny while you were doing that Voice of
(09:02):
God thing, you went all glitchy, so it was like
it was like the matrix, it was like the breats.
So if I could come back at any time, when
I come back to the present or to the past
in your honestly to the present, yeah, honestly, I'd come
to right now because I mean not because everything's hunky dory,
because like any like any other time in your life,
(09:24):
you know the things that are going well and things
that aren't going so well. But um, I've got this
sounds like a really naught thing to say, but I've
got a really lovely family, and the last year has
really shown me just how lovely they are. And I
think that one of the one of the things that's
kind of strange is that you can spend quite a
(09:45):
lot of time just going about your business and not
realizing how much you know, love and affection you have
around you, and then you look back and you got
I'd love to go back to that point. I'd love
to go back to that point, you know when whenever
and actually I'm I am in one of the rare
moments in my life when as I said, it's not
(10:06):
it's not everything's plain sailing. It isn't by any means,
but just over the last year, it's been a bit
of you know, it's been it's been a strange year.
And one of the things that has been demonstrated to
me is that the family, and I mean not just
my my wife and my kids, but also my you know,
my my family, extended family. I've just all been really
really lovely, solid, decent people. And you know that thing
(10:30):
about you only really know people when the you know,
when the ship hits the fan. I've just had very
good reason recently to discover that I really like how,
you know, what, what what a great you know, what
a great family I've got around me. So I'd be
very happy to come back to this because not only
but it's not just because they've been great now and
they haven't been It's because I'm noticing it now in
a way that I probably haven't done before. Kermaid, You're
(10:52):
going to make me cry like Mark Kermaid's watching any film.
That's really I mean, that's the best dance of every
for that, I think that's Beau. I'm really I'm really
glad that you are in the present appreciating the present.
That is unusual, isn't it. Yeah. And it's also the
thing that's the hardest to do, isn't it. You live
in the moment. Yeah, try, you know, just just have
(11:15):
a go really really hard. Here is embidist here there.
I think I asked you this last time, but it's
still has done. It is me. There are films that
you watch again. Sometimes you'll you'll talk about a family
go I went to see it again, and often that
film was three and a half hours in, and I think,
(11:36):
but there's a kind of well, if I'm writing a
lead review for The Observer, okay, I would like to
have seen it twice now. Obviously sometimes I can't, but
if I can, I will. And the reason is that
if you're going to write something, it feels kind of
you'll you'll understand it. It It feels like journal of record
(11:56):
when you write things that when you say things, they're
in the ether and they're like until somebody transcribes them
and then you go, excuse me, I didn't mean that.
But when you write things, it's kind of and particularly
with the observer, because it's the observer, it sort of
feels journal of recording. And so I do like to
watch something twice to just to check and to and
because often the first pass is to do with, you know,
(12:17):
getting the feel of the film, and then the second
pass is to do with understanding it. Yeah, and then
quite often if you've watched the film twice and got
a lot out of it, it's quite easy to step
back into it, you know, it just is. And also
the films that I love, you know, like the Richard
Gear Breathless and Duel in the Blue Cat and all
those stuff that I've talked about elsewhere, they're just they're
(12:38):
comfort blankets for me, and I love them and they
never let me down. And I so there's always time
to do it, even when there's no time to do
anything at all, there is always time to just revisit.
And of course the great thing is you know, you
can dip in and out. Yeah, I was late doing something.
I just I was staying just I was. I was
in a glamorous travelodge the last two nights, and I
(13:00):
was up late finishing work and I had to be
up early in the morning to do the thing. And
I did made the mistake of turning the television on
and they were showing the Poseidon Adventure. I just watch.
I'll just watched five minutes, you know. The next thing,
you know, an hour's gone. Anyway, Well you have come
(13:23):
back to now, well done, they're living. I wanted to
talk to you about films and whatnot, mostly films the
first thing that they would like to know. And they
have missed here and there the very excited that you
come back. I mean, imagine if this was what happened
with Jesus, he pops back and everyone or anyone I
was going is what was the last film you saw? Anyway?
What was the last film you saw? The last film
(13:44):
I saw would have been whatever I saw screened on Tuesdays.
Oh so it must have been The Quiet Girl, the
Irish movie, which is wonderful. I loved it. I absolutely
loved it. You know it was like a kind of
little oasis of joy in the middle of a slightly
strange week. And I knew my colleague Wendy Eyed, had said, look,
it's very good and you know you'll like it, because
(14:05):
you know, as I like selling CMR and that sort
of thing. But I just I went. It was a
screening at the screening was at the Cursin Soho, but
it was down you know, it was down in the in.
I think it was a screen three wherever it was.
And it was really odd because it was only about
five people there because I imagine that other people had
seen it already. And then in the middle of it,
somebody came in I think must have just come in
(14:26):
off the street and came in setting well about and
very very loudly fell asleep and snored. But I don't
think they didn't come in to watch the film. They
just come in to get to get warm or something.
And it's an indication of how good the film was
that it bothered me not one jot that somebody was
getting a nice warm kip while we were getting on
with watching the film, because usually I'd be sufferable work
(14:46):
we're making noise. But you know, no I thought it
was love you have you seen it? No? I literally
just read about it today and it's the first I've
heard of it. But so good, so lovely, right, It's
it's touching and heartfelt and understated, and it's it's fantastic
central performance by this this young actor I've seen him before,
which is great, and it's really well directed, and it's
(15:09):
just you know, you just go, yes, that's it, Make
make that, make that film. That's a that's a good.
And I came out of it feeling really like, oh, yeah,
you know, if I have one of those a year,
I'll be good. You know, it's really nice. Yeah, No,
I thought it was great. Oh and then I definitely
see that. Mark MD, who do you think should play
you in the film of your life? Well? You know
(15:31):
the answer this, right, I do know this answer, and
your Answood daysondiais yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a it's
a it's a it's a it's a fantasy thing for
me because you know, I know I've talked about this
at great length, but I'll never tire of it. When
I was at school with Jason, Jason was the person
who I wanted to be and I, you know, I
was a teenager and I had I think basically I
(15:53):
had a teenage crush on him in that way that
you can become completely infatuated with somebody, doesn't matter your
gender or your you know, sexual orientations, nothing to do
with that. You can you can basically fall in love
with somebody because you just they impressed you so much.
And of course it's funny because Jason now says, your look,
your version of me is completely wrong. Like you thought
I was cool and aloof but I wasn't any of
(16:15):
those things. Actually I was an outsider. I'd come down
from Liverpool. I didn't know anybody. Jason talks about changing
his accent so he fitted in in North London. And
of course he's you know, he's a chameleon when it
comes to accents. But because we're sort of with the
same age and yet he looks half my age, I
said to him the other day, I said, Jason, can
I ask you a question? Because I'm completely you know,
I'm complete, completely nick Lie. As you can see from this,
(16:38):
I said, Jason, do you die your hair? He said,
of course not. They die it for me. You know. Yeah,
I'd love to be played by Jason. It will never happen. Though. Well,
here's the thing. He could play you, sure, and he'd
do a very good joys a very good actor. But
you've proved that you're very good at playing a setup.
So I think it might have to me you I'll
(16:59):
do I'll do it myself. Yeah, yeah, Jason could probably
do you. Actually, I'm just thinking that, you know, Yeah, yeah,
I mean this is funny because on this I'm looking
at you on this camera, you've got this very kind
of action man look about you that you've getten the
in the in the black and white. You know, action
man with the same length beard and hair. You know,
the with the eagle eyes and the grippy hands that
(17:20):
you're using now to use your coffee cup and the
gripping hands. But you know he, Jason could play anyone,
to be honest, Jason can play anyone. What is the
most romantic film you've ever seen? And is it near that? Well,
you know, in a way, you've kind of you've you've
committed the Simon Mayo sin of asking a question to
(17:42):
which the answer is yes. I mean, I mean the
thing is, you know, in absolute terms, I love Splash.
You know, I've gone on about Splash a lot. I
absolutely love Splash because it's just you know, I loved
it before Quentin Tarantino loved it all right, you know
everyone loves Splash. Yeah. Well, I went to see Splash
(18:02):
at the Wllington City City when I was in Manchester,
and I went to see it, like, you know, two
or three times in the same week. And it's just
with the mermaid comedy. What what? What is? What's the thing?
But I love Tom Hanks in that film. It's just
so he was so great. And then of course I
then saw I think they re released Bachelor Party and
(18:22):
it was terrible, except for the bit when he does
the thing with all the burners are currently occupied, which
was funny, and then it's lovely that now, all these
years later, Tom Hanks has turned into the person that
Simon and I regularly cited the best interview in the
world because he does that thing about he makes you
think that for the time that you're in the room
with him, you are the only person that's in the
room with him, but near dark will always have the
(18:43):
upper hand. Because it was that. Even though it was
the first film that Linda and I saw together, I
thought it was a date she says it wasn't. But
you know, it's you can't ever unhinge the thing that
you that, you know, the time that you saw something
in I mean, like, I remember, the best breakup movie
I ever saw was Hell Racer to see Hell Raiser,
which I'd already seen, but I went to see Hell
Razor at the end of a sticky relationship. And I
(19:06):
just remember going to taking myself to the Sulfur Keys
to see Hell Razor and it was just like laden
stuff and pins in the heads and you know, and
all that stuff, and it was just like, yeah, that's
the money, that's what we want. Good. Yeah, I'm so
over it. But yeah, no, Near Dart will always be.
(19:26):
It will always be the thing for me because because we,
you know, we saw it together. And I remember and
I remember thinking, God, I actually thinks I'm really cool.
I brought her to this grungy vampire movie. You know,
I didn't. I didn't take a Star is Born or
or you know or something like that. I took it.
I took her to see a film because I kind
of because I respect her, you know, and I'm sure
(19:47):
you know what she turned to that when she was
actually thinking as this is an interesting film. Who's he? Oh? Yeah,
that's right. Yeah, I really love that. This one is
a real interesting question for you, particularly given what we've said.
What is the best film you've ever seen that you
never want to see again? Oh? Wow? Well, I mean
(20:08):
there are things like there are endless documentaries about animal cruelty,
which I think are brilliant, but I wouldn't want to
see them again because because because they just you know,
you know, I just find it heartbreaking because I'm a
bleeding heart liberal. I know loads of people who whose
lives were changed by seeing Cowspiracy, for example, but you
wouldn't want to see it again. Yeah. I think the
(20:29):
Act of Killing is an absolutely existential soul shaking experience,
and I cannot imagine having an evening free and thinking,
you know, I'll do that. But I mean, you know,
I did watch Act of Killing twice because I watched
it once and then I had to review it for
The Observer and I had to review I wanted to
review it for the Observer, and so I went back
(20:51):
and watched it again and I just found it utterly
soul shaking, I mean genuinely soul shaking. But I wouldn't
want to watch it again. I don't need to him.
It's pretty much burned into my brain. Come and see.
As another example, isn't it the clean off? You know,
it's all right? Yeah, you know once it's kind of
it's kind of fun. The thing I would cite is
there's a film called Martyrs, which is a horror movie.
(21:13):
And I've said this before. It's the closest I've ever
come to walking out of a film without walking out
of the film, And by the time I got to
the end, I was really glad I hadn't walked out,
but I never wanted to see it again. And I
always cite it as a kind of interesting case of
it got so close to having gone too far for me,
(21:34):
and then and then it didn't. And I'm glad I
saw it through the closure. But I've only seen it once,
and I wouldn't go back and watch it again. Are
you able to articulate the difference? I sometimes wonder if
it's intent, But I've heard you talk about it, and
I think I feel similarly but less than you, as
in you like goring and nice stuff happening. And then
occasionally I hear you talk about a film and you'll
(21:56):
be like that is a horrible It was like and
it's another horror and its blood and guts and it,
but you sort of find it disgusting and an apparent
And can you articulate if there is a common theme
of why that it's the difference between one that you
really enjoy and one that you're like, this is yeah,
I mean I'll have a go. Yeah. I had a
kind of a rule for a while, this thing about
(22:18):
you know that in my experience, certainly when I had started,
when I started out working in film criticism, I was
a horror fan first and foremost. So when I first
started trying to get interviews and that kind of thing
that it was, it just turned out that the people
I went to were horror filmmakers. Yeah. I went to
Los Angeles in the late nineteen eighties because I've been
working a little bit for Time Out and New Musical
(22:38):
Express freelancing, but it was just writing film reviews and
I needed bigger things. I needed features. So I went
to stay with my friend Tim polecat In he lived
off of Hollywood, and I thought while I was there,
I'll get some interviews, and I sent out a bunch
of facts. As it would have been then people saying, look,
I'm a freelancer from the UK, I write for these publications.
I can't guarantee that the thing will end up in
(22:58):
any of these publications. Would you give me half an
hour of your time? The three people who gave me
an hour of their time was Wes Craven, who made
Last House and the Left, arguably one of the most
terrifyingly unpleasant films ever made. Sam Ramy, who made The
Evil Dead, which was on the you know the Video
Nasties sort of hit list and was described one of
the BBFC examiners said that after watching it they felt
(23:20):
that they'd been physically assaulted. And Linda Blair, the star
of The Exorcist, which is the movie that sent people
running out of theaters and into churches. They were all lovely.
They were really really lovely, thoughtful, nice, funny, sweet. You
would have trusted them with your life. And then later on,
you know, Guna Hansen who played leather Face in Texas
Chainsaw Maska, lovely blow just big, big bear of a guy,
(23:44):
you know who would you know they kind of personally,
would you know, give you lift you up over a
wall if you needed, you know, that kind of thing.
And then simultaneously I interviewed some other people who were,
you know, the head of some big corporations who make
some big family entertainment, and they were absolute assholes, Like
really really, I did an on stage with one who
(24:05):
just will remain nameless, but somebody who was pretty high
up in a studio which had made, you know, some
of the most salable kids entertainment in the world. And
I thought he was a contemptible oath and just sneery,
just like had no appeared to have no love of
movies in him, did not appear to did not appear
to love movies at all. And so the thing with
Gore cinema is I like movies that that provoke a reaction,
(24:29):
that provoke a response, and that works for me. I
like horror movies because they take me out of them.
You know, they in the moment, you know you're alive
at the moment. But I think that there's a thing
about that movies have an attitude that can be adventurous
or scary, but it can also have an attitude which
can be mean spirited. And I remember talking to Nigel
(24:51):
Floyd once about Peter Jackson's work. I like very much.
But he made this film Meet the Feebles, and I
thought that Meet the Feebles was a really mean spirited
film and it was interesting to discover that. Of course,
it was borne out of a great conflict that he
had been trying to get another project off the ground
and had been frustrated and ended up doing Meet the Feebles.
And you can feel, yeah, the anger in that film,
(25:14):
which is very weird for Peter Jackson because he's not
an angry filmmaker, but that film feels you know, you
you know what I'm saying. It means it's it's there's
something about that film. I know exactly what you mean.
It's really horrible. It's really it's really it's really just nasty.
It's made with love, is it? That's that's and there
we go and there that's hitting the nail on the head.
(25:37):
And if you compare that to say, yeah it is
and you know the George Romero Night They're Living Dead
and Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead movies,
those are made with with with absolutely love. And then
our Gento I think would be the same thing. You know, Argento,
if you talk about you know, his move from Jello
into horror and Suspiria front of us, all those things.
(25:57):
These are films that are made with by somebody who
your way of making the film. You can feel it,
you can feel it. And that's why partly I think
why Darry used to get so offended about his movies
being cut because he loved them. He loved the films,
and then he couldn't understand why somebody said, well, I
loved it, but I got to cut this bit off it.
You know. David Kronenberg once said that having your having
(26:17):
your film cut was like sending a child to school
and it being sent with a sent back with one
of its fingers cut off because they said, yeah, it
wasn't it was fine, but we didn't like that yet.
So anyway, there you go. It's a very Cronenberg image.
But so yeah, I think it's it is the film
made with a sense of celebration and love and you know,
you know, or adventurous and he's perfectly possible to make
(26:39):
a nihilistic film, but without it being mean spirited. I
think mean spirited, you know, is the thing that I
don't like. That's it. You've got it. I sound so sanctimonious. No, no,
I completely agree. I do think it's It is as
silly as it may sound, it is if you make
anything with love, you can take The Exocist is made
with love. It's fucking amazing. You can feel there. Yeah,
(27:00):
I get why you love The Exorcist. And then yeah,
I don't have to name all the films not maybe
we love that you can't feel it, you could sell.
What is the best action film you've ever seen? Well?
I love Point Break? I mean I just love Point Break.
I mean I know, I know it's a kind of
it's you know, it's immediately you are in hot fuzz territory.
But you know you've seen Bad Boys too, You've seen
(27:22):
point On which one you want to watch first? Have
you ever shot a gun in the year? We're going? Ah?
But the point is Point Break is one of those
movies like die Hard, that you go into it your
expectation is never going is not what the film is. Okay, So,
I mean I knew that I liked Bigelow, but Point
Break was like, wow, you know, this is a surfing
movie and Keano Reeves apparently just jumped out of a
(27:45):
plane without a parachute, and the you know the chase sequence,
you know when they're doing the thing, and then you
see how they did it at the camera with the
thing and the hoop on the end of a following
that film barrels at such a pace. It's absolutely breathtaking.
And I also remember seeing die Hard for the first
time because people have said to me die Hard is
really good. And I wasn't a Bruce Willis fan. I
didn't know Moonlighting from a Hole in the Ground, and
(28:07):
you know, i'd heard that it was, you know, cowboys
and Indians in the Towering Inferno. And then you go,
it's so good. It's so good. It's so good. And um,
I mean obviously it's you know, it's got great script
and great performances and Rickman is wonderful. But just as
an action movie, there is a piece of action cinema.
It's great. But I think Point Break has got the
edge because Point Break is a film which you know,
(28:29):
it's land, sea and sky. It's like how many terrains
can you run? And it's like all of the yeah
it is. It's the surf and turf with you know,
with with a bird, you know, with a surf, turf
and a buff. Anyway, yeah, good, you can have it
(28:50):
of all the films that exist, if you had to,
which film do you think you could have made? And way? Well,
you know to start with the provider. Yet, as I've
said to you before, Brett, I couldn't make a film
that you couldn't make a film. You have it that
I couldn't make a film because I couldn't make a film.
So in a way, it's an impossible question to answer,
(29:11):
because all the films that I love I couldn't have made,
and all the films I don't like I couldn't have
made either, not because I would have done them better,
because I would have done them worse. I have always
said to people, Look, if I criticize your film, please
understand that it's coming from somebody who couldn't have made
the film. You know, I couldn't have made over sex
Rugsuckers from Mars. I mean, I really couldn't have made
even that low level. But of all the films, do
(29:31):
you mean, which one would I like to have made?
I guess what the question is and is what's the
sort of film that you think represents? Maybe it's another
way of saying, like, what film do you relate to? Like?
Have you I've seen a film accasing whether that a
funk I could have written that, as in I couldn't
have written away sensibility. Why they're like, that's well, I think,
(29:52):
you know, I think that, Yeah, okay, I think in
that case the answer again, I'm sorry to do the
old hits, but I'm an old man and I'm not
changing my mind about much anymore. I think Jeremy is
the film that felt like, you know, because bear in mind,
when I saw Jeremy, I was I was twelve. I
think you know. I saw it on a double bill
would Breakout Past, and it was a supporting film, and
I didn't know it ending about it, and then it
(30:13):
broke my heart in a thousand pieces. And then I
never saw it again for thirty years, but I remembered
every single thing about it. And I think that the
reason is it's that have you ever seen that film
Velvet gold Mine Todd Haynes, Yeah, Todd Haynes film. And
there's a bit in it when I think it's Christian Bale,
I mean Christian Bale and I batman Christian Bale. Yes,
(30:36):
he's watching the television and he sees in the in
the conceit of the film, he basically sees Bowie or
something like Bowie on the telly and he jumps up
and he goes, that's me, that's me. And he's some
you know, he's like a kid in flat but he
looks at it, he goes, that's me. And although it
clearly isn't him, it's you know, because he's in a
(30:56):
front room watching it tellly and this is some glam
rocker on on on the talent. But when I saw Jeremy,
it was like somebody had you know, that's me. And
because it isn't me. But I don't live in New York.
I don't go to Juilliard. You know, I was never
in that I was too you know, I was young.
I was never in that position. I'd never been in
love and had my heartbroken, although I did feel like
(31:17):
I was in love and had my heartbroken by the film.
And then years later, year decades later, when I became
friends with Alan Jones, it turned out that Alan, I love.
Alan's great and it turned out that he absolutely loved
Jeremy in the same way. Now, Alan and I are
very different people. Our lives are very different, our histories
(31:38):
are very different, our ages are very different. You know,
I mean Alan was, you know, he was. Alan's always
been this kind of a joke about Alan is. You know,
if in any sort of thing, like any film you
ever see about punk rock, Okay, if you moved the
camera slightly to the left, there's Alan. And in this
new film Wake Up Punk, he's actually in it. And
of course he's in Great Rock and Roll Swindle. And
he was working at Sex with um you know, Westwood
(31:59):
and Claren and he was friends with all that stuff.
And then he was he's the star of the Tensee C.
He's the roller skating star of the Tensee C music
video whatever it meant many beats per minute, it is.
And he was to you know, so we've had very
different lives, but we both saw Jeremy and when that's
me and and it demolts Rest. And then years later
I interviewed Robbie Benson about it. Robbie Benson went on
(32:22):
to be a famous performer, and he was, he's the
voice of Beast in Beauty and the Beast. Yes, yeah, yeah,
And I said, the thing about the film is that,
you know, it's like it's like falling in love. It's
exactly like falling in love. And he said, well, of course,
you know what I mean, and who was the co star?
We were falling in love. Actually in that film, what
you see is, you know, he's realized that you just
(32:43):
you must have such such warm memories of it. He said, no,
it was quite horrible to make, really, And then he
told me that it was these stories about just what
a really really difficult, like really properly unpleasant experience it
was to make a film which is full of innocence
and joy and and and I kept I kept thinking,
(33:04):
please stop, I don't want to know. It was, you know,
fallings out with the directors in the cinema to anyway,
you know, but it goes to show, you know. I
remember talking to Terry Gilliam once about Baron Munchhaus, and
of course famously Baron Munchaus had this incredibly painful birth.
But when you look at the film, it's light and delicate, funny,
you know. So yeah, so yeah, but Jeremy, I think
(33:25):
would be the film even though I never had any
of those experiences. I'm not that boy, you know, I didn't.
I don't live that life and never did. But like
Jeremy speaks to me on a on a profound level
I felt. I felt the same way when I saw
a ladybirds like, I'm Ceranian and obviously there we go.
I met Searcheronian for the first time on Monday. She
was in the beer Fi. I'd done a show and
she was in the beer Fi and she was sitting
(33:47):
there and and somebody said she was talking to somebody
I know, And I did the think that I kind
of went over and I and I sat down. I
you know, I studiously didn't, you know, And I just says, Hi, Searcha.
I'm like, she's, oh, hi, Hi, nice to meet me.
And I said, oh, you know, you know Brendan Gardner,
the you know, the dialect coach. But oh yeah, I
love Brendan. I said, oh, he's a good friend of mine.
You know, what are you doing? I was literally just
(34:10):
trying to get look, I'm you know, we know similar people.
She's so she's so great in everything. She really is.
She's fantastic. This is an interesting one. And I don't
know if you have an answered. What is the film
you have pretended to like to impress people? Wow? What
(34:31):
is the film I've pretended to like? Well, I will
confess that I pretended to like Citizen came before I
saw it, so it was a huge it was a
huge relief when I actually did see it and I
thought it was good. It's quite good. Yeah, yeah, you're say, yeah, nobody,
of course. And the great joy of it is is
that it's funnier than than you expect. And so you know,
(34:53):
you go in thinking, here we go, a great movie
you ever made? Oh god, and then of course it's
it's funny and it's satirical and news on the up
and all that stuff, which I which I really loved.
I remember I reviewed a film once. The title of
it may come back to me years later. I think
it was called Last Images of the Shipwreck. I think
that's what it was called. And I reviewed it for
(35:14):
Time Out. And sometime later Alan Frank, who was a
fellow film critic, he was doing something, he was doing
some cataloging. He said, he said, I read your review
of the Last Images of the Last Images of the Shipwreck,
and I went, oh, wow, yeah, it's like twenty years ago.
I mean, he said, yeah. He said, that was the
best example of somebody pretending to like a film that
(35:35):
I've ever read. So evidently, according to you know, to
an ounce a third party, and I'm more inclined to
believe it. Evidently I was pretending to like that because
it made me seem clever, but it literally said, yeah,
it's the best example of somebody pretending to like a
film I've ever read. Well, I think if I'd rather
(35:58):
a critic pretended to like, say they think that exactly exactly. So,
what is the film you've never seen that you think
it's mad? You've never seen it? There's an academic game,
you know, Linda, my wife is a professor of film,
And there's an academic game which is a kind of
(36:18):
game of a Dare game, which is the book that
you should have read that you haven't read, that you've
been teaching for twenty years, and it's kind of you know,
it starts at something fairly obscure, and then each each
person who admits has to has to crank it closer
to the what you mean you've never read Janeair, You
know what you mean, you've never read Emma. It's like
that kind of level of thing. But the film I'm
(36:40):
astonished that I haven't seen. I've never seen Wild Horse, Hank,
that is mad? What's the film you know what that
is no what is wild Horse Hank? Wild Horse Hank
is a Linda Blair film and I've never seen it.
And it's her favorite film that she made. Then, that
(37:00):
is really And I love Linda Blair. I think she's
she's great and I've never seen it. And the reason
I've never seen it is because when I was in
my Linda Blair completest period in which I'm trying to
get everything she'd ever done, it, wild Horse Sank was
just not available. But she said it's the one of
all her films, it's the one she loves the most.
And I interviewed her. I interviewed her, and I think
I lied. I think I said, oh, yes, I love
(37:23):
it too, because I wanted to impress her. What I mean,
you've got to track that down there. What is the
film that you love that you don't expect anyone else
to like? Well, Jeremy is a very good example. I won't.
I mean, in fact, like so much so that we
(37:44):
have three copies of Jeremy in my house and none
of my family have ever seen it. Really yeah, and
they can't and they can't they won't. I won't allow
them to see it because I couldn't deal with them
not liking it, and they think it's a very good
chance that they wouldn't like it, because I think there's
loads of things that were probably deeply wrong with it,
and so you know, I mean it's it's just I mean,
(38:06):
Simon won't watch it, and that's the joke because he
thinks the joke is funniest if he doesn't watch it.
But it's also entirely possible that he would watch it
and just think it's an absolute piece of trash. So
I can completely understand, Like if somebody said to me,
should I watch Jeremy two parts, One part of my
brain would go, yes, it's a lot it's me, and
then the other part of peopuld go no, I do
(38:28):
really know, yeah, because if they like Jeremy, they don't
like you. Oh yeah, And actually, but I think that's right.
I think there's a part of me that couldn't take
that level of judgment. You know, Yeah, it's too much. Yeah,
I don't know how you take with it anyone that
doesn't like a film that I loves my heart, I mean, yeah,
well I always used to make that joke about if
(38:49):
you don't like Mary Poppins, we won't be friends. And
I don't mean it as a joke. I mean, if
you know the person who I was talking about, the
studio head of the people that make you know, family entertainment,
but I thought was a man with a black hole
where his soul ought to be. I told him that
I cried. I told him that I cried every time
I watched Mary Poppins. And he said, well, you've just
made a fool of yourself. Ah, but I can't say.
(39:11):
I can't tell you who it was. I can't tell
you who it was. Okay, what's the film you would
show a lover? That's right, a lover A lover's brett.
Well to go back pre Linda, I really have lovers? Then, okay,
(39:31):
what is the film you would show a partner as
a test to see if you should be together? Mary Poppins. Great.
I mean, you're tying yourself up and knots it because
in a way, I'm kind of you know, it's like
I'm boringly predictable with these answers for Mary Poppins. I
do mean it. I genuinely mean it. It's like, if
you don't get Mary Poppins, we aren't going to get
(39:54):
on because so much of you know, so much of
of what what I believe in. It's Mary Bobbins. Yeah,
you know, Mary Bobbins is fucking amazing. It's just it's
just a joy. It's it's it's about everything that's good
in the world, and it's the best. It's the best
explanation of the financial crash I've ever seen on film,
(40:14):
and the songs are wonderful and it's just transcendent, and yeah,
it's it's you know, I'm sure we talked about it, right,
but yeah, yeah, you said, mister Bates is the one
that made me. It's lovely. It's lovely, which is why
did you have to make him so horrible? Yeah, it's
just great. What is the film that made you the
most uncomfortable? Martyrs did make me uncomfortable. The Last House
(40:39):
and the Left made me feel really really queasy, but
partly because Last House and Left was kind of a
test of that, how much do I actually believe in
free speech? Because I was, you know, I was involved
in defending it when we're trying to get it uncut
through the BBFC. And it's the thing that I had
always held was Last House and leftn't be released uncut
(41:01):
because it isn't a salacious piece of nastiness. It should
be released uncut because it's an important piece of salations nastiness.
You know, there are some people who say, well, lost
as to let this an exploitation movie is actually about
the reality of Vince. No, it's not. It's an exploitation movie.
It was originally called sex Crime of the Century. You know,
it's it's an exploitation movie. If you think it isn't,
you're kidding yourself. In the same way as if you
(41:22):
think that people defend films often by disavowing what they are, okay,
And the great example of me is Cruising, the William
Freaking film. Cruising would say, well, you know that film
is you know, it's got this really sort of salacious
mix of sex and violence in it, to which the
answer is yes, it has. And if you pretend that
that's not part of its appeal, then you're just lying
(41:43):
to yourself about the film. I mean, it might be
a you know, an existential murder mystery and all those
other things, but it's also got this incredibly tactile sleaziness
to it that actually is very very cinematic, and I
think it's an interesting film, but I partly think it's
an interesting film because it's got you know, all this
you know, it's stuff going on that's really kind of
you know, it's a film that feels like it's enjoying itself. Yeah,
(42:07):
you know, in the scenes in which it's apparently meant
to be not enjoying itself, you know what I mean.
It's so I think it's it's a kind of very
revealing movie like that. So, but the times that I've
been I think in the case of The Last House,
I felt uncomfortable because I was going into bat for
it to make a case for it being released on cut,
and so I did have to watch it quite a
few times, and every time I watched it go, you know,
this is this is really nasty. It's a really nasty
(42:30):
from even where's Craven thought the same thing where he
thought it was about something. He thought it was important,
and I think it is important because in terms of
the evolution of horror, it is about something. But it's
also completely nasty. It's got these weird bits of slapstick
comedy in it, which just completely I said to Craven ones,
what's that about? It? Said, Well, I felt the audience
needed a break, really, you know so, so I think
(42:53):
that made me feel very, very uncomfortable. The things that
I usually feel most uncomfortable in though, films that try
to co opt me into into something that I don't
believe in, and I it most regularly happens in kind
of bro humor, which I don't find funny. I just
don't find it funny. And I hate the idea, you know,
(43:14):
with the Entourage thing was you know that they said, well,
it's every remember the thing is, it's every man's dream.
It's every boy's dream to everything it isn't It wasn't mine,
and I'm not alone. I know loads and loads of
men who don't have that dream. Not only do I
not have that dream, I would literally want to floss
my head if I if that dream ever got into mine.
And I hate the fact that the film is going
(43:35):
all right, ay, you know, we do really don't we?
And that makes me feel uncomfortable because I feel like
just sitting here watching this quietly rather than standing up
and being outrage. I once saw a play. It was
when I was at Managest University. It was some kind
of bit of agit prop and I think it was
maybe it was a break piece. I can't remember, but
(43:56):
there were these Regularly the actors would stand at the
front of the stage and say will you intervene? Will
you intervene? And that second time they did it, somebody
stood up and said yep, and they went and it
was like what the fuck? And it was just like, yeah,
they're good for you, good for you. Can we go
home now? Exactly what? Well, it's pretty Mary Poppins. What
(44:21):
is if you could show a child one film, what
would he Well? Poppins obviously, and I mean it's not
an if I did you know, I mean my my
daughter and I must have watched Mary Poppins one hundred
times in a Year's the age you started her child
and Mary Poppins's I think Georgia first saw it when
she was about three, Okay, I think that's about right.
(44:42):
Because it's got songs and an animation, you know, so
it's a it's a kind of it's a gateway drug.
And we had it on a on a DVD, but
it was a flipper. You had to get up and
turn the thing over. So it's exactly the moment when
she says, Michael stopped stravging, you know, because he's got
one foot in the gutter and one foot on the thing,
and then it would stop, and then you'd have to
get up and turn it over, and then there was
the tea party on the ceiling. But I told her
(45:04):
that was kind of like the intermission, so you couldn't
fall asleep, you know, you had to be awake to
turn the thing over. So we just watched it over
and over again. But it's it's it's so great because
she would see it as as a child and I
would see it as an adult, and we'd both be
enjoying it for completely different reasons. I think the Ghibli
films are similar. I think that you know, you can
watch things like Spirited Away. I mean, in fact I
(45:26):
did when my daughter was still quite young. I was
given a videotape of Spirited Away because they wanted to
do a piece about it on Radio four, and they'd
ask me what I thought about it. It's just before
the kind of you know, Ghibli became everything to everyone, yea.
And I sat and watched it with my daughter and
she loved it, and I was completely baffled by it.
(45:48):
I mean, the narrative which the bathhouses and the what
and the thing and the pardon you know. But she
just loved it, and I was, you know, and that
that gave me a way of going, well, it makes
sense on some fundamental level that's beyond narrative, you know.
I like that Ponyo Ponyo is the other great example
of that. Somebody, somebody catches a fish that just turns
(46:09):
into a person, but it doesn't really, it's sort of
still a fish. What's the film? I forgot what it's cool,
but I really really loved it, and you loved it too.
It's quite recent. What's it called Where the turtle is?
There's no red turtle? The turtle? And I really loved
that film and it's really beautiful and I don't get
any dat all. No, it's it's funnily enough. The bloke goes, hey, hey, yeah,
(46:35):
just arrives on the island and that's it. And I
was wondering, I have no experience of children seeing it.
Did you see that with your children? I wonder how
it plays. I have seen it with my children, because
I saw it. I loved it. I interviewed um, who's
the director. He gave me one of the original drawings
of the Turtle, which I have signed on my wall,
(46:56):
and then you know, and then I just showed it
to my family, my family, but they were older kids
at that point, but you know, but yeah, it's just
like you have to watch. This is the best thing ever. Yeah,
it's really, it's really something. Mark per Moode, you have
been wonderful, so wonderful. I've decided I'm gonna let you live,
but thank you. I might kill you again one day
(47:18):
in the future, so just before I do, there's a
will here, and you need to leave one DVD for
the people behind in case you happen to die again.
Just one DVD for any for anybody. Yeah, I feel
loved ones. Well, okay, I would leave Petite Mammal because
(47:41):
because it has out, it has I think one of
the most brilliant depictions of childhood and adulthood and the
bit when the mum says, you know, you're not responsible
for my sorrow. M It's just I mean, I just
think that filmed. It's just it's amazing, eighty two minutes
(48:03):
long and every piece of human life is in there. Yeah,
you know, so i'd say that, say that wonderful, that's wonderful.
I also think it's nice you've left for the future
where people will have no attention spans. You've left a
short film that was very thought mark. I really really
(48:23):
appreciate your time. I've loved doing this again. Thank you,
it's fun. Thank you for having me back. Bro. I
really appreciate I appreciate you. If there's anything you want
to table to listen, look out for a read, or anything,
please say yeah. Well, you know, I hope that people
will will listen to the podcast. I hope that they'll
they'll find us, you know, on the new podcast, and
as you said, not radically different show. Really, I mean
(48:46):
it's it's I mean, it's like things are changing. It's
a different thing. The people's popular front of Jude and
the popular people's front of jud It's that, you know,
it's that that level of divisiveness. But you know, I mean,
I would really like it if people listen, if people
found the podcast, and they appear to be doing so,
and that's lovely. But I don't ever take it for granted.
(49:06):
I do not take it for granted because Simon and
I would like to carry on doing it. We love
doing that show, and we can only carry on doing
it if people listen to it. So I know this
sounds needy and pleady, but you know, please download it. Yeah,
I think they. I think they will and I'm sure
if they're listening to this they already do. Mark made
God bless you. Thank for your God bless I would
(49:27):
thank your band stopped them recording. Thank you. That was
a real pleasure. Thank you. So that was episode two
hundred and one. Head over to the Patreon at patron
dot com forward slash Brett Goldstein for the extra twenty
minutes of chat, secrets and video with Mark. Don't forget
to get your tickets for the live show at the
Hackney Empire July second at hack the Empire dot co
dot uk or Placed dot co dot uk. So listen.
(49:51):
Last week I said that I was going to take
a break from the podcast. I had so many nice
messages from loads and loads of people, and I would
like you to know that they all meant and awful
lot to me. At the moments. Were very bad about
taking his break. But I'm going to take a little break.
But there will be more podcasts, I'm sure. So hold
on tight. Listen to old ones. If you miss him,
(50:13):
come see the live show. I appreciate you all and
I will speak to you soon. Thank you so much too,
Mark for giving me all his time. Thanks to creepy
spipeping the distracts some pieces of network. Thanks to Buddy
Pieces for producing it. Takes to Acost for using it.
Takes to Adam Richardson for the graphics. Lisallied him for
the photography. See you very soon, but in the meantime,
have a lovely week, and please, now more than ever,
(50:35):
be excellent to each other. Thank you. Crust uncrustam was
(51:04):
untrust was uncrustam
Host
Brett Goldstein
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Intentionally Disturbing
Join me on this podcast as I navigate the murky waters of human behavior, current events, and personal anecdotes through in-depth interviews with incredible people—all served with a generous helping of sarcasm and satire. After years as a forensic and clinical psychologist, I offer a unique interview style and a low tolerance for bullshit, quickly steering conversations toward depth and darkness. I honor the seriousness while also appreciating wit. I’m your guide through the twisted labyrinth of the human psyche, armed with dark humor and biting wit.