June 12, 2024 • 30 mins
Jamie Rich is a telehealth abortion provider for out of state patients.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, listeners, it's me Jane Murrie, one of the producers
of this finally a show. Our finale is coming up
for this season next week. I can't believe it. This
is the weirdest thing that anyone's ever let us make.
So I want to shout out Leah Pictures and iHeart
for giving us the go ahead to make real old
(00:21):
fashioned audio documentaries. We wanted to rerun this episode from
a few weeks ago, featuring an abortion provider. She prescribes
people miff A, Prestone and the associated drugs needed for
medical abortion. But of course, now we all know this
is in front of the Supreme Court, so it's important listening.
(00:42):
Please quote unquote enjoy and we'll see you next week
with our final episode.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
So it's around six point thirty and I'm just getting
ready to start my day. I'm going to have two
very excited dogs who are ready to go outside and
see what other kind of animals may have come through
our property overnight. Anything from something big like bears and
elk to something small like a fox or even a squirrel.
This morning, I'm going to go ahead and text my
(01:12):
son and just tell them to have a great day
about the time the dogs come back in, I know
that my daughter's going to give me a call. I'm
really lucky that she calls me every morning on her
way to work. And as soon as all that's done,
then I'm going to jump in and start working and
see what the day brings.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
This is finally a show about an abortion provider for
over twenty five years. Jamie Rich is a nurse with
the Satanic Temple's first ever telehealth abortion clinic.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
My name is Jamie. I am an OBGYN nurse practitioner.
I'm lucky enough that I get to work from home
in northwestern Colorado and I provide telehealth services to people
in New Mexico. I can remember at four or five
someone asking me what do you want to be when
you grow up, and my answer has always been I
(02:11):
want to be a nurse. It never changed, it never wavered.
I never wanted to be a doctor. I feel like
the philosophy of care is just a little bit different.
Nursing looks more at the holistic patient, not just oh,
the person who has a breast slump or the person
who needs surgery. But there are many other layers to
a person, from their mental health to their socioeconomics to
(02:33):
possibly their religious or spiritual beliefs, what's going on in
the home that is impacting the way that they're able
to take care of themselves, and so on, and so
different philosophy of care that just worked better with my
beliefs and how I wanted to take care of people.
I grew up in kind of a conservative family. My
dad was Catholic, my mom was not Catholic, but was
(02:53):
pretty religious. And you know, like birth control and premarital sex,
you don't talk about that because that doesn't happen until
you're older, married, and you don't worry about that. And
so I think a little bit was that normal kind
of teenage rebellion. I'm going to figure out who I am.
I'm going to figure out what my beliefs are and
where I want to go and what I want to do.
And to my parents' credit, they were like, you know what,
(03:13):
if that's what you want to do, that's what you
want to do, that is great. And so my husband,
right when I graduated from college, we got married, we
were still married, was a photojournalist. He stayed here in
Colorado and I went to Los Angeles, moved up here
to where I am now and started working for Planned Parenthood.
The community is supportive, or if they're not supportive, then
(03:35):
it's basically whatever you know, don't you do what you
want to do. I'm not going to interfere, but I'm
not going to support it either. So I left Plant
Parenthood a little over a year ago. Before I left
Planned Parenthood, though, I had been approached by some folks
who were starting TST Health, which is the telehealth that
I'm working for now to provide abortion services to folks
(03:56):
in New Mexico. TST Health is the Satanic Temple Health,
which then provides the care to the Samuel Alito's Mother's
abortion clinic.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
So get your abortion today and the name of sam
you all Alito's mom.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You can find out more on our website. And you
know Alito obviously on the Supreme Court definitely not pro choice,
definitely very conservative, has voted against religious and reproductive rights.
And I think it is intentionally a little bit provocative
to get people talking about it and to get people
(04:35):
to hopefully do some research, find out what is and
what it isn't, and be able to make decisions again
based on facts. The telehealth laws within New Mexico are
a little easier to manage. New Mexico was kind of
a safe haven. You know, they're surrounded by Arizona and
(04:55):
Texas and pretty close to Oklahoma and all of those
states that are not friendly to women or abortion services,
and so New Mexico kind of made sense in terms
of where we could provide services and hopefully get some
people who didn't have any other option to get into
New Mexico to be able to access care. There's been
(05:17):
a few articles in the paper against having abortion services
and against TST Health, but that also tells people where
to access care as well. New Mexico, where we're providing service,
does not have abortion restrictions, and so we're not fighting
that fight here. But the Satanic Temple is in process
of legally trying to get care provided in some other
(05:39):
states where it is not so friendly. So TST Health
is a component of TST, which is the Satanic Temple.
At this point, it's a startup. It's less than a
year old. We actually have only been seeing patients since
February of twenty twenty three. In some of these states
that are very unfriendly or who have essentially banned abortion,
they are us using religion, especially Christianity religion to state
(06:03):
that this is something that goes against God and should
not happen. And so what TST. The Satanic Temple is
doing is saying, you know that this is these are
our religious tenets and our religious beliefs, and by you
restricting or outright banning abortion, is that you are infringing
upon my religious convictions. The mission of the Satanic Temple
(06:25):
is to encourage benevolence and empathy, you know, to really
advocate for practical, common sense, factual based information really really
important for this group. They oppose in justice like taking
away rights for women who want to have abortion as
part of their healthcare, trans rights, LGBTQ rights, those kind
of things. And so that's really the overarching kind of
(06:48):
mission statement of the Satanic Temple and making sure that
decisions that are being made, whether that's at a local
government level or at the upper levels of the United
States government, that those decision are based on facts and
based on science and not based on a religion that
is not based in science or based in facts, and
is you know, and excludes certain people because for whatever reason,
(07:13):
the fundamental tenets of the Satanic Temples, so there are
seven of them. The ones that we tend to use
the most for an abortion ritual or for folks who
are interested in having some type of a ritual with
their procedure is that one's body is inviolable, subject to
one's own will alone, bodily autonomy, belief should conform to
(07:33):
one's best scientific understanding of the world. So, in other words,
we are providing care that is based on the best practices,
on scientific evidence on twenty five plus years in the
United States, more than that in other countries, on how
this is safe and effective. So those are the two
that we tend to use the most. The tenants also
(07:53):
talk a little bit about compassion and empathy towards people,
trying to understand people, not judgingtruggle for justice, you know,
and not having certain groups marginalized. Freedom of others should
be respected. In other words, I may believe this, you
may believe that doesn't make one of us more right
on the other person wrong, or anything like that, but
(08:14):
that you know, as people, we all have different beliefs
and different views, and that that should be celebrated. We
talk about people are fallible. You know, if you make
a mistake, then you should once you recognize that, own
up to your mistakes, move forward, try not to do
that again again. You know, get the information that you
need to be able to move forward and make better decisions.
(08:35):
And then the last one just talks about all of
these tenets are used kind of as an overarching principles
as to inspire nobility and action and thought. And I
think that that's really great way of saying that to
be compassionate and to continue to learn, and to continue
to grow, and to continue to help provide justice to
those groups that may be marginalized, that we should be
(08:57):
looking at the written and spoken word and using all
of these tenets to be kinder, gentler and learn more
and continue to move forward in this world. Some people
are actually member, active ongoing members of the Satanic Temple,
or they have a friend who is who tells them
about it. There are so many things that the Satanic
(09:20):
Temple does. It's a group of folks who believe in
facts and believe in science and believe in bodily autonomy
who are getting together and trying to make a difference
in their communities. I think when people hear the Satanic Temple,
they're thinking, oh my gosh, they're worshiping Satan. I tell
you really cannot make this stuff up.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
This group pledges to provide quote religious medication.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Abortion care and not how they identify themselves as not
believing in a literal Satan. But when you associate yourself
with Satan at all, Satan is the father of lies,
So how are we supposed to believe that that's even true?
Gather together to stand as one unified voice against this
(10:04):
demonic spirit that is trying to invade.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Our petitioning for access to abortion, and what they say
is to quote, continue performing voluntary abortions as part of
its religious rituals. And to me, that is a huge ordeal.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
You know that they're sacrificing and all of these horrible
things that you hear about with Satan worship, and that's
not what this is at all. I mean, I think
some people probably would be concerned with the name the
Satanic Temple, although this health clinic part of it is
TST Health, which I think sometimes people don't know what
it is until they've actually gotten into the paperwork. But
(10:40):
once they get in the paperwork, I think they realize that,
you know, this is a really professional organization. We are
dedicated to providing the highest standard of care that you know,
everything that we're asking is very clear and has a
purpose and is very medically focused. They can always ask
as many questions as they'd like to about our training
and you know how everything got started, and you know
(11:01):
what we're doing for quality control. And I haven't had
anybody who made an appointment who has said this is
kind of strange or whatever. It's mainly thanks so much
for being available. This is you know, you made this
much easier for me and I can do this on
my own time, and it's been a great service. I
have a daughter and a son. My daughter is a
(11:23):
high school English teacher, also in a small town in Colorado.
So this is really funny. Actually it's a funny story.
So my daughter was in college and she did a
semester abroad and it was the semester you know that.
It was during the time when Trump got elected, and
I can remember a few days before the election, I
(11:44):
said to her, if Trump gets elected, you're going to
have to stay where you are, and she's like, okay,
and kind of laughed it off. And then of course
he got elected, and so she called me and she
was crying and she's like, I can't believe this happened.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
One.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I don't want to stay here. I really want to
come home. And I'm part of the Satanic Temple too.
I joined because you know, I just I just thought
it was a good thing to do. And I'm like, well,
good for you. That's great. I don't know anything about it,
but you know, that's that's wonderful. What are you doing?
She goes, I don't really do anything because there's nothing
here that I can do with them, but I just
wanted to do that as a protest. I was like,
that's great, that's fine. I think it's really funny. When
(12:22):
she was in middle school, the school approached me and
asked if I would teach their sex ed class, and
I was like, sure, absolutely, And so my daughter actually
sat down and did all the flash cards and all
of the handouts for the sex said class for her
middle school class. And then my son I also did
his sex head class, and he was great with it,
and you know, made sure he participated to make his
(12:42):
friends participate. You would look at him and just you know,
make a judgment of looks pretty conservative. You know, he's
kind of a I don't know, like a cowboy kind
of rancher, mechanic kind of looking kid, and that's that's
what he does first full time work. But he's probably
(13:03):
the most liberal of all of us. There were a
few times that it was probably uncomfortable for them, you know,
that they had friends or family who weren't real keen.
You know, it was not a secret where I worked
and what I did that weren't too keen on that,
but they they handled it well. Funny story, I was
(13:25):
going into work and I had my daughter with me,
who at the time was in college, so she wasn't little.
But even then we have talked about this from the
get go with both both my children. But my daughter
was with me, and the protester yelled that the angel
of death was behind me and that my daughter was
going to suffer because of it, and it just we
both looked at each other, my daughter and I and
(13:47):
we both walked in course, you know, we do not
engage with people like that, and we both walked in
and we said, good, we are gonna you know, She's like, mom,
You're going to continue doing what you do. And I'm like, yes,
i am. She goes me too, you know, I'm going
to continue to be you know, outspoken and an advocate
for whoever needs me with this work. I was just thinking,
(14:10):
you know, I know that people who are our anti
choice really do say, you know, how do you live
with yourself? How can you do this? And I guess
my response to that is how can I not? This? Again,
is essential healthcare. This is providing a very safe service
to folks who need it for whatever the reason is,
(14:31):
and again no different than anything else. And so I
couldn't live with myself if I didn't provide the care
that I feel is appropriate and necessary for the people
I see. TST Health is not a temple or a
gathering place for folks who have the beliefs of the
Satanic temple. However, we do incorporate those tenets with the
(14:51):
patients that we see to whatever extent that they would
like to go through any type of a ritual with
their abortion care. I'm going to read what the TST
Health site says about the abortion ritual. So it serves
as a protective right. Its purpose is to cast off
unwanted feelings that a patient may be experiencing due to
choosing to have a legal and medically safe abortion. The
(15:14):
ritual is designed to alleviate stressors and empower the patient
to be guided by the Satanic Temple's third and fifth
tenants when pursuing their decision. The ritual serves to assist
in affirming their decision and to ward off the effects
of unjust persecution, which can cause one to stray from
the paths of scientific reasoning and free will, and those
third and fifth tenants. One of those is bodily autonomy.
(15:35):
The other, the fifth one is talks about the scientific
and best practices and utilizing the best knowledge that we
have or care. Some folks want to participate in some
type of a ritual, even if it's I have chosen
to do this, this is right for me, this is
right for my body. I am firm and clear in
my decision. It could be as simple as that which
we do want everyone to be able to verbalize to
(15:56):
us that this is their decision that they want, that
they're not being coerced in any way. Or it could
be that they may actually take one of the seven
tenants from the Satanic Temple and actually say those out
loud prior to taking their medication or when they take
their medication. So the patient that we're seeing today. We
(16:17):
ask if she would be willing to come onto the
podcast just so that everyone can kind of hear the process,
the consent process, how we explain everything to the patient,
my part of the visit, the provider part of the visit,
and she said that she's more than willing to do that.
So we just got a message from our support person
just that the patient has joined and so we are
(16:39):
going to join the call as well. It's a video
call perfect.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
So before we get started, I'll just tell you a
little bit about me, So Jessica.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I will be going over the process with you in
a little bit about the medication, so.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
What to expect and all of that.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Go over quite a bit of information, so I at
any point you need me to stop or repeat myself,
just let me know.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The medical.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
The way that telehealth works is that they can fill
out the paperwork online. Wherever they are doesn't matter. We
get it, no big deal. When they do their telehealth
visit with me, which is a video visit kind of
face to face, we each get to see each other
and talk to each other and you know, hopefully get
a little bit of a connection they need to physically
be in new Mexico, whether that's one foot over the
(17:34):
line from Texas or wherever they just have to physically
be in New Mexico. Some patients really stick in your
mind because they had to travel two thousand miles and
you know, they had to get childcare, and many of
them have traveled, but a lot of them we have
seen have actually been in New Mexico and they're in
small little towns. I the reason I was really excited
(17:56):
to work with TST Health is that through their membership
and through donors, the only cost to the patients who
are accessing is the cost of the medication, which is
about eighty dollars. Other places it's anywhere from six hundred
to you know, twelve hundred dollars for a medication abortion.
And so especially for folks who maybe need to travel,
(18:20):
folks who are in some of these really tiny towns
in New Mexico that socioeconomically are not stellar, this is
a really affordable, great way to access abortion care if
they need that service.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Medication, and we send you to pregnancy tests. So the
first medication that you will be taking, it's called if
a persona is just one pill.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Oh, I think we lost her. Hey, Jesse, I think
we lost her. I think we did.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Okay, perfect,
thank you.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Technology already so the person that you.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Take so medication abortion is safe and effective for someone
who is eleven weeks pregnant or less, someone who maybe
had a wanted pregnancy and for whatever reason, it's not
a normal pregnancy. We don't tend to find that out
until you know, sometimes fifteen, sixteen, even twenty weeks into pregnancy,
(19:25):
and so that the person who's in that situation would
have to have a surgical or an in office abortion
procedure determinate a pregnancy that is abnormal. The prescriptions for
the abortion pill and for the other medications that we
prescribe along with that go through a mail order pharmacy,
and so if they're in New Mexico, it can come
(19:47):
to their house, it can go to a po box,
it can go wherever they need it to do. If
they don't live in New Mexico, they can either wait
for that package because we can overnight it, or they
can do mail forwarding from a physical address and then
it'll forward it to their home. The reason that we
do the mail order is that most pharmacies do not
(20:07):
carry the medications for medication abortion. There are two main medications.
One is called mithipristone are you for eighty six? The
French abortion pill. Those are all names that have been
used and when it was first approved for use in
the United States back in two thousand and one, there
were some very strict guidelines in that as a provider,
(20:29):
I had to contract with the manufacturer. They had to
verify that I really knew what I was doing and
that I knew how to prescribe it, knew how to
take care of it, and I gave the patient that
all the right stuff and I could take care of them.
And as we have found, you know, cause it was
it had been legal in European Union for much longer
than that. We had all their safety data and then
we had all this data from the United States as well,
(20:51):
and we realized, wow, it is pretty safe. And so
even though I'm still contracted with the manufacturer to say
that I can prescribe it, pharmacies do not carry it.
It's crazy that yeah, it's just crazy to have to
jump through all these hoops for a medication that is
super safe and should be available when someone needs it.
(21:14):
You kind of want to be like, why can't you
understand how important this is? And just because you don't
believe in it doesn't mean you should take that access
away from someone else. You know, I may not believe
in I don't know having a root canal, but I
would never take that away from someone else. It just
astounds me that still in this day and age, we
(21:37):
are taking things away from a certain group of people,
whether that's you know, people of color, whether that's people
who you know are assigned female at birth who can
get pregnant and we're taking away their abortion access or
their birth control access or whatever it is. It's just
I'm kind of dumbfounded by it all. I try not
(21:58):
to get in arguments about it because I feel like
if someone is that has those beliefs so entrenched that
they're not willing to listen, Just like I'm willing to
listen as long as what you're telling me is factual
and again based on not just feelings but on actual
facts and what's going on, I'm willing to listen. But
(22:18):
if someone is so entrenched in it's it's wrong because
you know, the Bible says it's wrong or whatever, then
I'm not going to get in an argument. And so
there are some people I don't want to talk about
it with. You know that I know what their beliefs are,
and so we just we won't talk about it, or
you know, like in large family gatherings, I may say, okay,
everyone listen, we are not talking about these five things.
(22:41):
You can talk about anything else you want, not those
five things, because it doesn't do any good to argue.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Once you receive the medications and once you start taking them, okay.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So to make sure that you do have them.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, ky, Alicia. My name's Jamie. I'm one of the
nurse practitioners with TST Health. How are you?
Speaker 4 (23:14):
I'm good, thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
So, once you receive your medicine, you just want to
decide when you want to take it. I know just
told you. The first medicine you're going to take is
the mifipristone that stops the pregnancy from developing any farther
without any major side effects or problems at all. And
then since you're going to be taking your other medicine buckley,
which is in between your cheek and your gum, you're
going to wait twenty four to forty eight hours after
(23:39):
you take that first medicine to finish this process with
the medication abortion. So whenever that timing works out best
for you, when you're ready to take your second set
of medicines, you're going to first take your nausea pill,
which is called on dancetron or zofran. It dissolves on
your tongue. You're going to take that. Then you're going
(23:59):
to take one of your prescription ibuprofen pills, and you're
gonna wait thirty minutes let those medicines get in your
system and start working. The next thing that you're gonna
take then is you're gonna take your four mesa prostal pills.
You're gonna put two here and two here in between
your cheek and your gum, and you're gonna leave them
there for thirty minutes, swallow down whatever's left, and then
(24:21):
the process will get started. It usually starts fairly quickly
after you swallow those down. So that's why I want
you to take that other medicine before you take your
mesa prostal pills. Okay, so most people feel better within
twelve hours. You should definitely feel better within twenty four hours.
If you don't, or if at any point you're worried
(24:42):
or concerned, that's when you want to call our on
call nurse. As Jess said, we do have somebody who's
on call twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.
So if you have questions, that's when you want to
give us a call. We are here to support you
kind of before, during, and after, So make sure if
you need us, let us know.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Chap just confirming that you're okay doing these standardship.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
There's such a wide range of folks who access abortion care,
whether that's through TST Health or anywhere else for that matter.
And yes there are the teenagers who you know, got
pregnant accidentally, didn't know or didn't care about birth girl whatever,
all the way up to you know, the fifty one
year old woman who thought she was going through menopause
(25:25):
and oh crud, and I'm now pregnant and my children
are already grown, or I never wanted to have children
in the first place, or whatever the situation is. Through
TST Health, we don't see anyone who is under seventeen,
partially just because of you know, some minor abuse reporting
in those kind of things. So we do see some
older teenagers that's been a very very small percentage of
(25:48):
who we seen. I see a lot of people who
are in their twenties, mid to late twenties. We see
a lot of people who are in their late thirties,
and we've even seen a few people who are in
their mid to late forties. And so I can't say
that there's one demographic of who we see because we
have seen the entire gamut of folks. Some patients do
stand out. I was so proud of this young woman
(26:11):
who I didn't even know, but she was in college
unintentionally pregnant. She had all of these plans for her future,
which she was able to share some with me, and
she's probably going to be running the world someday, and
pregnancy did not come into her plan. And so she
filled out her paperwork. She wanted to talk about birth control.
(26:33):
She was concerned about timing because she needed some she
lived in the dorm, she needed a time when her
roommate wasn't there, and she had some privacy. So we
worked around her schedule. And that's the other beauty about
TST health is that we can work around somebody's schedule. Okay,
you know this was my roommate has a class from
six to nine pm Mountain time. Can you please? Can
(26:54):
we please? I'm like, absolutely, what time works for you.
We went through the whole process. She had downloaded all
over form. She had all of these questions. We got
all of those questions answered. You know, she was firm
and clear in her decision and didn't have family that
she could turn to because of their beliefs, but her
partner was supportive, and she had a friend who was
supportive and had someone to help her kind of go
(27:15):
through this process. And it was just it was wonderful
to see this person is taking charge of their life.
They know what they need, They've gotten the facts, they
know how to take care of themselves. They reached out
and they got the care that they needed. We were
able to connect and do that, and she can have
children at the time of her choosing. You know, we
(27:39):
see people at some of their worst moments and to
be able to say I hear you, and it's okay,
and I can help you and let's talk about this
to when maybe somebody else in their lives doesn't want
to talk about it, or they didn't get any support,
or they didn't nowhere else to go and it's just
it's a wonderful career. Okay, great, Well, thank you so much,
(28:08):
really appreciate it. Take care of yourself, and again, please
reach out if you need us, because that's what we're
here for.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Thank you guys so much.
Speaker 5 (28:15):
I really appreciate it, and I just want to say,
this is a great organization.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
You guys are doing great things for people. Well, thank you,
Thank you guys very much.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you so much. And like I said, take care
of yourself and please let us know if you need
anything from us.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
All right, bye, bye bye. There's no way that I
could do the work that I'm doing without the support
of my family. You know, not only my partner of
thirty five years, but you know my kids as well,
who have their own set of beliefs and values, and
(28:51):
everyone is just so supportive and has enabled me to
do what I do and for that I'm really grateful.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I've talked to a lot of people who are looking
at a nursing career or a nurse practitioner career, or
you know, want to go into sexual and reproductive health
or even specifically want to go into abortion care. And
it's been the biggest honor and privilege to do what
I do, and I wouldn't change a thing, and it's
(29:19):
so awesome. Hard, but awesome. Yes, I am tearing up
because it's just it's the best thing ever. As I'm
finishing up my workday, I just kind of review and
make sure that everything that was on my to do
list today got done, or if it didn't, I just
(29:42):
move it over to tomorrow. I turn out the light
and leave my little office here in my house, and
once I'm out in the living room, I usually pour
a drink and touch base and connect with my partner. Okay, buppies,
let's go outside. It's about nine thirty and I'm getting
(30:03):
ready to.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Go to bed.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Usually let the dogs out for one last little romp
around the yard.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Good Night,
Hey, listeners, it's me Jane Murrie, one of the producers
of this finally a show. Our finale is coming up
for this season next week. I can't believe it. This
is the weirdest thing that anyone's ever let us make.
So I want to shout out Leah Pictures and iHeart
for giving us the go ahead to make real old
(00:21):
fashioned audio documentaries. We wanted to rerun this episode from
a few weeks ago, featuring an abortion provider. She prescribes
people miff A, Prestone and the associated drugs needed for
medical abortion. But of course, now we all know this
is in front of the Supreme Court, so it's important listening.
(00:42):
Please quote unquote enjoy and we'll see you next week
with our final episode.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
So it's around six point thirty and I'm just getting
ready to start my day. I'm going to have two
very excited dogs who are ready to go outside and
see what other kind of animals may have come through
our property overnight. Anything from something big like bears and
elk to something small like a fox or even a squirrel.
This morning, I'm going to go ahead and text my
(01:12):
son and just tell them to have a great day
about the time the dogs come back in, I know
that my daughter's going to give me a call. I'm
really lucky that she calls me every morning on her
way to work. And as soon as all that's done,
then I'm going to jump in and start working and
see what the day brings.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
This is finally a show about an abortion provider for
over twenty five years. Jamie Rich is a nurse with
the Satanic Temple's first ever telehealth abortion clinic.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
My name is Jamie. I am an OBGYN nurse practitioner.
I'm lucky enough that I get to work from home
in northwestern Colorado and I provide telehealth services to people
in New Mexico. I can remember at four or five
someone asking me what do you want to be when
you grow up, and my answer has always been I
(02:11):
want to be a nurse. It never changed, it never wavered.
I never wanted to be a doctor. I feel like
the philosophy of care is just a little bit different.
Nursing looks more at the holistic patient, not just oh,
the person who has a breast slump or the person
who needs surgery. But there are many other layers to
a person, from their mental health to their socioeconomics to
(02:33):
possibly their religious or spiritual beliefs, what's going on in
the home that is impacting the way that they're able
to take care of themselves, and so on, and so
different philosophy of care that just worked better with my
beliefs and how I wanted to take care of people.
I grew up in kind of a conservative family. My
dad was Catholic, my mom was not Catholic, but was
(02:53):
pretty religious. And you know, like birth control and premarital sex,
you don't talk about that because that doesn't happen until
you're older, married, and you don't worry about that. And
so I think a little bit was that normal kind
of teenage rebellion. I'm going to figure out who I am.
I'm going to figure out what my beliefs are and
where I want to go and what I want to do.
And to my parents' credit, they were like, you know what,
(03:13):
if that's what you want to do, that's what you
want to do, that is great. And so my husband,
right when I graduated from college, we got married, we
were still married, was a photojournalist. He stayed here in
Colorado and I went to Los Angeles, moved up here
to where I am now and started working for Planned Parenthood.
The community is supportive, or if they're not supportive, then
(03:35):
it's basically whatever you know, don't you do what you
want to do. I'm not going to interfere, but I'm
not going to support it either. So I left Plant
Parenthood a little over a year ago. Before I left
Planned Parenthood, though, I had been approached by some folks
who were starting TST Health, which is the telehealth that
I'm working for now to provide abortion services to folks
(03:56):
in New Mexico. TST Health is the Satanic Temple Health,
which then provides the care to the Samuel Alito's Mother's
abortion clinic.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
So get your abortion today and the name of sam
you all Alito's mom.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
You can find out more on our website. And you
know Alito obviously on the Supreme Court definitely not pro choice,
definitely very conservative, has voted against religious and reproductive rights.
And I think it is intentionally a little bit provocative
to get people talking about it and to get people
(04:35):
to hopefully do some research, find out what is and
what it isn't, and be able to make decisions again
based on facts. The telehealth laws within New Mexico are
a little easier to manage. New Mexico was kind of
a safe haven. You know, they're surrounded by Arizona and
(04:55):
Texas and pretty close to Oklahoma and all of those
states that are not friendly to women or abortion services,
and so New Mexico kind of made sense in terms
of where we could provide services and hopefully get some
people who didn't have any other option to get into
New Mexico to be able to access care. There's been
(05:17):
a few articles in the paper against having abortion services
and against TST Health, but that also tells people where
to access care as well. New Mexico, where we're providing service,
does not have abortion restrictions, and so we're not fighting
that fight here. But the Satanic Temple is in process
of legally trying to get care provided in some other
(05:39):
states where it is not so friendly. So TST Health
is a component of TST, which is the Satanic Temple.
At this point, it's a startup. It's less than a
year old. We actually have only been seeing patients since
February of twenty twenty three. In some of these states
that are very unfriendly or who have essentially banned abortion,
they are us using religion, especially Christianity religion to state
(06:03):
that this is something that goes against God and should
not happen. And so what TST. The Satanic Temple is
doing is saying, you know that this is these are
our religious tenets and our religious beliefs, and by you
restricting or outright banning abortion, is that you are infringing
upon my religious convictions. The mission of the Satanic Temple
(06:25):
is to encourage benevolence and empathy, you know, to really
advocate for practical, common sense, factual based information really really
important for this group. They oppose in justice like taking
away rights for women who want to have abortion as
part of their healthcare, trans rights, LGBTQ rights, those kind
of things. And so that's really the overarching kind of
(06:48):
mission statement of the Satanic Temple and making sure that
decisions that are being made, whether that's at a local
government level or at the upper levels of the United
States government, that those decision are based on facts and
based on science and not based on a religion that
is not based in science or based in facts, and
is you know, and excludes certain people because for whatever reason,
(07:13):
the fundamental tenets of the Satanic Temples, so there are
seven of them. The ones that we tend to use
the most for an abortion ritual or for folks who
are interested in having some type of a ritual with
their procedure is that one's body is inviolable, subject to
one's own will alone, bodily autonomy, belief should conform to
(07:33):
one's best scientific understanding of the world. So, in other words,
we are providing care that is based on the best practices,
on scientific evidence on twenty five plus years in the
United States, more than that in other countries, on how
this is safe and effective. So those are the two
that we tend to use the most. The tenants also
(07:53):
talk a little bit about compassion and empathy towards people,
trying to understand people, not judgingtruggle for justice, you know,
and not having certain groups marginalized. Freedom of others should
be respected. In other words, I may believe this, you
may believe that doesn't make one of us more right
on the other person wrong, or anything like that, but
(08:14):
that you know, as people, we all have different beliefs
and different views, and that that should be celebrated. We
talk about people are fallible. You know, if you make
a mistake, then you should once you recognize that, own
up to your mistakes, move forward, try not to do
that again again. You know, get the information that you
need to be able to move forward and make better decisions.
(08:35):
And then the last one just talks about all of
these tenets are used kind of as an overarching principles
as to inspire nobility and action and thought. And I
think that that's really great way of saying that to
be compassionate and to continue to learn, and to continue
to grow, and to continue to help provide justice to
those groups that may be marginalized, that we should be
(08:57):
looking at the written and spoken word and using all
of these tenets to be kinder, gentler and learn more
and continue to move forward in this world. Some people
are actually member, active ongoing members of the Satanic Temple,
or they have a friend who is who tells them
about it. There are so many things that the Satanic
(09:20):
Temple does. It's a group of folks who believe in
facts and believe in science and believe in bodily autonomy
who are getting together and trying to make a difference
in their communities. I think when people hear the Satanic Temple,
they're thinking, oh my gosh, they're worshiping Satan. I tell
you really cannot make this stuff up.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
This group pledges to provide quote religious medication.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Abortion care and not how they identify themselves as not
believing in a literal Satan. But when you associate yourself
with Satan at all, Satan is the father of lies,
So how are we supposed to believe that that's even true?
Gather together to stand as one unified voice against this
(10:04):
demonic spirit that is trying to invade.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Our petitioning for access to abortion, and what they say
is to quote, continue performing voluntary abortions as part of
its religious rituals. And to me, that is a huge ordeal.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
You know that they're sacrificing and all of these horrible
things that you hear about with Satan worship, and that's
not what this is at all. I mean, I think
some people probably would be concerned with the name the
Satanic Temple, although this health clinic part of it is
TST Health, which I think sometimes people don't know what
it is until they've actually gotten into the paperwork. But
(10:40):
once they get in the paperwork, I think they realize that,
you know, this is a really professional organization. We are
dedicated to providing the highest standard of care that you know,
everything that we're asking is very clear and has a
purpose and is very medically focused. They can always ask
as many questions as they'd like to about our training
and you know how everything got started, and you know
(11:01):
what we're doing for quality control. And I haven't had
anybody who made an appointment who has said this is
kind of strange or whatever. It's mainly thanks so much
for being available. This is you know, you made this
much easier for me and I can do this on
my own time, and it's been a great service. I
have a daughter and a son. My daughter is a
(11:23):
high school English teacher, also in a small town in Colorado.
So this is really funny. Actually it's a funny story.
So my daughter was in college and she did a
semester abroad and it was the semester you know that.
It was during the time when Trump got elected, and
I can remember a few days before the election, I
(11:44):
said to her, if Trump gets elected, you're going to
have to stay where you are, and she's like, okay,
and kind of laughed it off. And then of course
he got elected, and so she called me and she
was crying and she's like, I can't believe this happened.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
One.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
I don't want to stay here. I really want to
come home. And I'm part of the Satanic Temple too.
I joined because you know, I just I just thought
it was a good thing to do. And I'm like, well,
good for you. That's great. I don't know anything about it,
but you know, that's that's wonderful. What are you doing?
She goes, I don't really do anything because there's nothing
here that I can do with them, but I just
wanted to do that as a protest. I was like,
that's great, that's fine. I think it's really funny. When
(12:22):
she was in middle school, the school approached me and
asked if I would teach their sex ed class, and
I was like, sure, absolutely, And so my daughter actually
sat down and did all the flash cards and all
of the handouts for the sex said class for her
middle school class. And then my son I also did
his sex head class, and he was great with it,
and you know, made sure he participated to make his
(12:42):
friends participate. You would look at him and just you know,
make a judgment of looks pretty conservative. You know, he's
kind of a I don't know, like a cowboy kind
of rancher, mechanic kind of looking kid, and that's that's
what he does first full time work. But he's probably
(13:03):
the most liberal of all of us. There were a
few times that it was probably uncomfortable for them, you know,
that they had friends or family who weren't real keen.
You know, it was not a secret where I worked
and what I did that weren't too keen on that,
but they they handled it well. Funny story, I was
(13:25):
going into work and I had my daughter with me,
who at the time was in college, so she wasn't little.
But even then we have talked about this from the
get go with both both my children. But my daughter
was with me, and the protester yelled that the angel
of death was behind me and that my daughter was
going to suffer because of it, and it just we
both looked at each other, my daughter and I and
(13:47):
we both walked in course, you know, we do not
engage with people like that, and we both walked in
and we said, good, we are gonna you know, She's like, mom,
You're going to continue doing what you do. And I'm like, yes,
i am. She goes me too, you know, I'm going
to continue to be you know, outspoken and an advocate
for whoever needs me with this work. I was just thinking,
(14:10):
you know, I know that people who are our anti
choice really do say, you know, how do you live
with yourself? How can you do this? And I guess
my response to that is how can I not? This? Again,
is essential healthcare. This is providing a very safe service
to folks who need it for whatever the reason is,
(14:31):
and again no different than anything else. And so I
couldn't live with myself if I didn't provide the care
that I feel is appropriate and necessary for the people
I see. TST Health is not a temple or a
gathering place for folks who have the beliefs of the
Satanic temple. However, we do incorporate those tenets with the
(14:51):
patients that we see to whatever extent that they would
like to go through any type of a ritual with
their abortion care. I'm going to read what the TST
Health site says about the abortion ritual. So it serves
as a protective right. Its purpose is to cast off
unwanted feelings that a patient may be experiencing due to
choosing to have a legal and medically safe abortion. The
(15:14):
ritual is designed to alleviate stressors and empower the patient
to be guided by the Satanic Temple's third and fifth
tenants when pursuing their decision. The ritual serves to assist
in affirming their decision and to ward off the effects
of unjust persecution, which can cause one to stray from
the paths of scientific reasoning and free will, and those
third and fifth tenants. One of those is bodily autonomy.
(15:35):
The other, the fifth one is talks about the scientific
and best practices and utilizing the best knowledge that we
have or care. Some folks want to participate in some
type of a ritual, even if it's I have chosen
to do this, this is right for me, this is
right for my body. I am firm and clear in
my decision. It could be as simple as that which
we do want everyone to be able to verbalize to
(15:56):
us that this is their decision that they want, that
they're not being coerced in any way. Or it could
be that they may actually take one of the seven
tenants from the Satanic Temple and actually say those out
loud prior to taking their medication or when they take
their medication. So the patient that we're seeing today. We
(16:17):
ask if she would be willing to come onto the
podcast just so that everyone can kind of hear the process,
the consent process, how we explain everything to the patient,
my part of the visit, the provider part of the visit,
and she said that she's more than willing to do that.
So we just got a message from our support person
just that the patient has joined and so we are
(16:39):
going to join the call as well. It's a video
call perfect.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
So before we get started, I'll just tell you a
little bit about me, So Jessica.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
I will be going over the process with you in
a little bit about the medication, so.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
What to expect and all of that.
Speaker 5 (17:00):
Go over quite a bit of information, so I at
any point you need me to stop or repeat myself,
just let me know.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
The medical.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
The way that telehealth works is that they can fill
out the paperwork online. Wherever they are doesn't matter. We
get it, no big deal. When they do their telehealth
visit with me, which is a video visit kind of
face to face, we each get to see each other
and talk to each other and you know, hopefully get
a little bit of a connection they need to physically
be in new Mexico, whether that's one foot over the
(17:34):
line from Texas or wherever they just have to physically
be in New Mexico. Some patients really stick in your
mind because they had to travel two thousand miles and
you know, they had to get childcare, and many of
them have traveled, but a lot of them we have
seen have actually been in New Mexico and they're in
small little towns. I the reason I was really excited
(17:56):
to work with TST Health is that through their membership
and through donors, the only cost to the patients who
are accessing is the cost of the medication, which is
about eighty dollars. Other places it's anywhere from six hundred
to you know, twelve hundred dollars for a medication abortion.
And so especially for folks who maybe need to travel,
(18:20):
folks who are in some of these really tiny towns
in New Mexico that socioeconomically are not stellar, this is
a really affordable, great way to access abortion care if
they need that service.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Medication, and we send you to pregnancy tests. So the
first medication that you will be taking, it's called if
a persona is just one pill.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Oh, I think we lost her. Hey, Jesse, I think
we lost her. I think we did.
Speaker 4 (18:52):
There you go.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you. Okay, perfect,
thank you.
Speaker 5 (18:59):
Technology already so the person that you.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Take so medication abortion is safe and effective for someone
who is eleven weeks pregnant or less, someone who maybe
had a wanted pregnancy and for whatever reason, it's not
a normal pregnancy. We don't tend to find that out
until you know, sometimes fifteen, sixteen, even twenty weeks into pregnancy,
(19:25):
and so that the person who's in that situation would
have to have a surgical or an in office abortion
procedure determinate a pregnancy that is abnormal. The prescriptions for
the abortion pill and for the other medications that we
prescribe along with that go through a mail order pharmacy,
and so if they're in New Mexico, it can come
(19:47):
to their house, it can go to a po box,
it can go wherever they need it to do. If
they don't live in New Mexico, they can either wait
for that package because we can overnight it, or they
can do mail forwarding from a physical address and then
it'll forward it to their home. The reason that we
do the mail order is that most pharmacies do not
(20:07):
carry the medications for medication abortion. There are two main medications.
One is called mithipristone are you for eighty six? The
French abortion pill. Those are all names that have been
used and when it was first approved for use in
the United States back in two thousand and one, there
were some very strict guidelines in that as a provider,
(20:29):
I had to contract with the manufacturer. They had to
verify that I really knew what I was doing and
that I knew how to prescribe it, knew how to
take care of it, and I gave the patient that
all the right stuff and I could take care of them.
And as we have found, you know, cause it was
it had been legal in European Union for much longer
than that. We had all their safety data and then
we had all this data from the United States as well,
(20:51):
and we realized, wow, it is pretty safe. And so
even though I'm still contracted with the manufacturer to say
that I can prescribe it, pharmacies do not carry it.
It's crazy that yeah, it's just crazy to have to
jump through all these hoops for a medication that is
super safe and should be available when someone needs it.
(21:14):
You kind of want to be like, why can't you
understand how important this is? And just because you don't
believe in it doesn't mean you should take that access
away from someone else. You know, I may not believe
in I don't know having a root canal, but I
would never take that away from someone else. It just
astounds me that still in this day and age, we
(21:37):
are taking things away from a certain group of people,
whether that's you know, people of color, whether that's people
who you know are assigned female at birth who can
get pregnant and we're taking away their abortion access or
their birth control access or whatever it is. It's just
I'm kind of dumbfounded by it all. I try not
(21:58):
to get in arguments about it because I feel like
if someone is that has those beliefs so entrenched that
they're not willing to listen, Just like I'm willing to
listen as long as what you're telling me is factual
and again based on not just feelings but on actual
facts and what's going on, I'm willing to listen. But
(22:18):
if someone is so entrenched in it's it's wrong because
you know, the Bible says it's wrong or whatever, then
I'm not going to get in an argument. And so
there are some people I don't want to talk about
it with. You know that I know what their beliefs are,
and so we just we won't talk about it, or
you know, like in large family gatherings, I may say, okay,
everyone listen, we are not talking about these five things.
(22:41):
You can talk about anything else you want, not those
five things, because it doesn't do any good to argue.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Once you receive the medications and once you start taking them, okay.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
So to make sure that you do have them.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, ky, Alicia. My name's Jamie. I'm one of the
nurse practitioners with TST Health. How are you?
Speaker 4 (23:14):
I'm good, thank you.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
So, once you receive your medicine, you just want to
decide when you want to take it. I know just
told you. The first medicine you're going to take is
the mifipristone that stops the pregnancy from developing any farther
without any major side effects or problems at all. And
then since you're going to be taking your other medicine buckley,
which is in between your cheek and your gum, you're
going to wait twenty four to forty eight hours after
(23:39):
you take that first medicine to finish this process with
the medication abortion. So whenever that timing works out best
for you, when you're ready to take your second set
of medicines, you're going to first take your nausea pill,
which is called on dancetron or zofran. It dissolves on
your tongue. You're going to take that. Then you're going
(23:59):
to take one of your prescription ibuprofen pills, and you're
gonna wait thirty minutes let those medicines get in your
system and start working. The next thing that you're gonna
take then is you're gonna take your four mesa prostal pills.
You're gonna put two here and two here in between
your cheek and your gum, and you're gonna leave them
there for thirty minutes, swallow down whatever's left, and then
(24:21):
the process will get started. It usually starts fairly quickly
after you swallow those down. So that's why I want
you to take that other medicine before you take your
mesa prostal pills. Okay, so most people feel better within
twelve hours. You should definitely feel better within twenty four hours.
If you don't, or if at any point you're worried
(24:42):
or concerned, that's when you want to call our on
call nurse. As Jess said, we do have somebody who's
on call twenty four hours a day, seven days a week.
So if you have questions, that's when you want to
give us a call. We are here to support you
kind of before, during, and after, So make sure if
you need us, let us know.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
Chap just confirming that you're okay doing these standardship.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
There's such a wide range of folks who access abortion care,
whether that's through TST Health or anywhere else for that matter.
And yes there are the teenagers who you know, got
pregnant accidentally, didn't know or didn't care about birth girl whatever,
all the way up to you know, the fifty one
year old woman who thought she was going through menopause
(25:25):
and oh crud, and I'm now pregnant and my children
are already grown, or I never wanted to have children
in the first place, or whatever the situation is. Through
TST Health, we don't see anyone who is under seventeen,
partially just because of you know, some minor abuse reporting
in those kind of things. So we do see some
older teenagers that's been a very very small percentage of
(25:48):
who we seen. I see a lot of people who
are in their twenties, mid to late twenties. We see
a lot of people who are in their late thirties,
and we've even seen a few people who are in
their mid to late forties. And so I can't say
that there's one demographic of who we see because we
have seen the entire gamut of folks. Some patients do
stand out. I was so proud of this young woman
(26:11):
who I didn't even know, but she was in college
unintentionally pregnant. She had all of these plans for her future,
which she was able to share some with me, and
she's probably going to be running the world someday, and
pregnancy did not come into her plan. And so she
filled out her paperwork. She wanted to talk about birth control.
(26:33):
She was concerned about timing because she needed some she
lived in the dorm, she needed a time when her
roommate wasn't there, and she had some privacy. So we
worked around her schedule. And that's the other beauty about
TST health is that we can work around somebody's schedule. Okay,
you know this was my roommate has a class from
six to nine pm Mountain time. Can you please? Can
(26:54):
we please? I'm like, absolutely, what time works for you.
We went through the whole process. She had downloaded all
over form. She had all of these questions. We got
all of those questions answered. You know, she was firm
and clear in her decision and didn't have family that
she could turn to because of their beliefs, but her
partner was supportive, and she had a friend who was
supportive and had someone to help her kind of go
(27:15):
through this process. And it was just it was wonderful
to see this person is taking charge of their life.
They know what they need, They've gotten the facts, they
know how to take care of themselves. They reached out
and they got the care that they needed. We were
able to connect and do that, and she can have
children at the time of her choosing. You know, we
(27:39):
see people at some of their worst moments and to
be able to say I hear you, and it's okay,
and I can help you and let's talk about this
to when maybe somebody else in their lives doesn't want
to talk about it, or they didn't get any support,
or they didn't nowhere else to go and it's just
it's a wonderful career. Okay, great, Well, thank you so much,
(28:08):
really appreciate it. Take care of yourself, and again, please
reach out if you need us, because that's what we're
here for.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Thank you guys so much.
Speaker 5 (28:15):
I really appreciate it, and I just want to say,
this is a great organization.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
You guys are doing great things for people. Well, thank you,
Thank you guys very much.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Thank you so much. And like I said, take care
of yourself and please let us know if you need
anything from us.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
Thank you guys.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
All right, bye, bye bye. There's no way that I
could do the work that I'm doing without the support
of my family. You know, not only my partner of
thirty five years, but you know my kids as well,
who have their own set of beliefs and values, and
(28:51):
everyone is just so supportive and has enabled me to
do what I do and for that I'm really grateful.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You know.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
I've talked to a lot of people who are looking
at a nursing career or a nurse practitioner career, or
you know, want to go into sexual and reproductive health
or even specifically want to go into abortion care. And
it's been the biggest honor and privilege to do what
I do, and I wouldn't change a thing, and it's
(29:19):
so awesome. Hard, but awesome. Yes, I am tearing up
because it's just it's the best thing ever. As I'm
finishing up my workday, I just kind of review and
make sure that everything that was on my to do
list today got done, or if it didn't, I just
(29:42):
move it over to tomorrow. I turn out the light
and leave my little office here in my house, and
once I'm out in the living room, I usually pour
a drink and touch base and connect with my partner. Okay, buppies,
let's go outside. It's about nine thirty and I'm getting
(30:03):
ready to.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
Go to bed.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Usually let the dogs out for one last little romp
around the yard.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Good Night,
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