December 10, 2019 • 28 mins
On growing up in the USSR. On loneliness and magic. On seeing and being seen.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Hey everyone, it's Carvel and before we get into this episode,
(01:04):
I want to ask you a favor. Throughout this series,
we've talked a lot about how Fred Rogers has helped
show us how to make the world a kinder place,
a better place. But now we want to hear from you.
We want to hear a story about when someone in
your life showed you what it means to be a helper.
Maybe it's someone in your family, or someone in your community,
(01:27):
or someone that you haven't seen since you were a kid,
but that you still think about something they did to
help you. Whoever they are, wherever they are, however they're helping,
we want to hear about it. So give us a
call at three three six five one five zero five
to nine. Again, that's three three six five one five
zero five to nine, and tell us a story about
(01:48):
someone who has shown you how to be a helper
and we might just play it on an upcoming episode. Again,
that number is three three six five one five zero
five two nine, Or you can tweet your story with
the hashtag finding Fred. Okay, now let's start the show
with a Nasha Studio. That sounds studio. Well, that's very
(02:11):
much like the place we make our television visits. It's
and Mr Rogers is in Moscow. Here would you like
to play? Of course I would. I'd love to touch
a piano wherever I go by. The Soviet Union has
(02:48):
just begun opening up dialogue with the US, and that
somehow landed Mr Rogers on the set of good Night,
Little Ones, the USSRS longest running children's pro graham. Back then,
there was no television except for one channel that was
played in Russian, which I could understand mostly the news propaganda,
and then there was a childhood program that played at
(03:10):
night that I also couldn't understand. Kristof Putzel was an
American kid living in Moscow at the time. Both my
parents were journalists. They were assigned to cover what ended
up being the collapse of the Soviet Union. My parents
job was to make sense of a place that didn't
(03:30):
make a lot of sense, where information was controlled. Kristof's
father was the bureau chief for the Associated Press. His
mother was the deputy bureau chief for Time magazine. They
moved to Moscow in and took seven year old Kristof
and his sister along with them. My parents had told
me that the biggest toy store in the entire Soviet
(03:51):
Union was across the street from our house. This was
the way they tempted me to go there and agreeeded
this whole thing as a seven year old. And let
me tell you, it's the first time ever gone to
a toy store anyway. It's nothing I wanted to buy,
because there was nothing on the shelves. Um. There was
I think shoes, some clothes, and a couple of tin
toy things and some really complicated models that I think
(04:12):
we're for adults. And that was it. This is the
biggest toy store seven It's nothing I wanted. I'm Carlo
Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast about Fred
Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in partnership with
(04:34):
Transmitter Media. We often talk about how adaptable kids are,
but Kristoff says, the move to Moscow was really hard. Frankly,
I was pretty depressed. Um, you just have to understand
just how hard Russia was in the eighties, especially for
(04:58):
a kid, you know, at being so cold, dark, no
access to stuff. Um. Sometimes friends would record like tapes
that cassette tapes and then mail them and I would
listen to their voices. We didn't live in an embassy.
We lived in a square foot apartment my mom, my dad,
and my sister, myself and our Golden retriever, only golden
(05:19):
retriever in the entire civic Union. People thought that it
was a lion. Our apartment was bugged because the KGB
always kept a close eye on them, and they would
follow us anytime we were going outside of the city.
They would constantly try to attempt to set up my
parents to see if they were actually spies, and always
(05:40):
monitored whatever stories they're working on. There was always somebody
watching and nothing to watch on TV, no familiar cultural
touchstones like Sesame Street or three to one contact. So
I would watch the same VHS tapes over and over
and over again that people would mail from the US.
(06:00):
They would just tape whatever was on TV and mail it.
We'd get it three, four or five months later, if
we got it at all. And those were like gold
I like you, Yes, I do, I like you. And
on a few of those precious VHS tapes were old
episodes of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. Certainly do I'm glad you
(06:27):
were with me on my swing. So Mr Rogers in
Moscow was big news, and Christoph's parents managed to get
word to Fred telling him about their depressed kid. And
for Fred Rogers, a note about a sad child was
like the bat signal. There was one day when my
parents told me to make sure I was home for dinner,
(06:49):
which I always was, but I remember being weird. They're like,
now there's a special dinner tonight. I just remember a
knock on the door and I'd sort of gotten used
to being let owned by surprises of them trying to
like cheer us up in communist Moscow, you know. And
I opened the door and there's Mr Rodgers in his
(07:09):
card again and the blue shoes, and my jaw apparently
just dropped. I remember just being awe struck. I didn't
understand why Mr Rogers was at my door. I grew
up watching Mr Rogers. I knew every character, I knew
I'd probably had seen every episode at least for that
time frame. Um, And so there I was, and he
(07:31):
walks in the door, and he gets down to my
eye level and shakes my hand and introduces himself as
Fred Rogers and asked what my name was, and I
don't even know if I could get the words out
of my mouth because Mr Rodgers in the apartment, and um,
(07:52):
it was just him on his own and just by himself.
I think it was the first time in my life
where I felt seen by an adult, like when he
got down to my eye level, introduced himself and looked
(08:13):
me in the eye. Of course, I've had adults introduced
themselves to me a million times up to that point
and asked me what my name was, But the way
that he looked at me, I felt like you saw me.
Then he came into the living room and we sat
(08:34):
down and he opened up his suitcase. He had a
suitcase with him. I feel like it was a briefcase,
but it must have been bigger than that. Um. And
he opens it up and they're all the puppets. I
had never put together that Mr Rodgers did the voices.
I didn't, And so suddenly they were talking and I
had King Friday and um and actually owl in my
(08:59):
on my couch. This is a real moment for a child,
you know. And UM, I think what just really struck
me about it was how normal it felt. I mean,
not normal. What's the word. Um, it's while it felt surreal,
it felt like I was in I was in the
land of make believe. Suddenly my couch suddenly turned into
(09:21):
that in my apartment, and um, it was just like
the show. I mean, he was wearing the same stuff.
This isn't a like since it set. It wasn't like
backstage he was. He had the cardigan on and the
blue shoes. Like I mean, first of all, I'm just
really struck by the kind of person you have to be,
(09:44):
the kind of self possession you have to have to
just walk into some strangers houses and spend the evening
with them, like we don't, Like, we don't know. I
don't know how to do that. I'm like, like, ostensibly
my job is to be charismatic in public, and I
still don't. I don't know if I would know how
to just go into someone's house with nothing but myself
(10:06):
and his suitcase of puppets to spend the evening with
them and their family. I have kids, and oftentimes I
think about the ways in which illusions are created for
them and also shattered for them. And so it's a
tailor as old as time that like the kid has
someone that they they have idolized, and television. Then they
(10:28):
meet them and then the person is not who they
thought they were and they're crushed. And you had the
opposite experience. You you sort of thought this guy was fine,
and then you meet him and you find out that
he's exactly who as good as he says he is.
But I wonder if you ever felt let down. Later.
Mom one time took me to the set of Sesame
Street because she was working on a story for Time magazine.
(10:48):
And I went and I was horrified because Big Bird
was walking around without the top, you know, just the legs,
and the muppets were all like, you know, like lying
there like corpses, and and they'd warned my mom, they said,
you know, credit, they said, we don't usually encourage children
to come here. And it was a little jarring. Um,
(11:10):
But that wasn't the case with Mr Rodgers. More from
Christoph in just a moment. Teething can be a real
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(11:55):
A n d s dot com. Slash Kind claims based
on traditional homeopath a practice not accept the men coll evidence,
not ft evaluated. Hi. I'm Ebony Money and I'm Ricked
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the global conservation organization behind the world famous San Diego
Zoo and Safari Park, and together we're excited to announce
(12:17):
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(12:37):
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otter dot Ai. Mr Rogers visit has stuck with Christoph.
(13:47):
It's not just that Mr Rogers got down on one
knee and looked him in the eye, or that he
got to play with King Friday and X the Owl
it's the kindness of Mr Rogers, the effort Fred made
in the midst of a busy trip to help a kid,
like I mean, just think about this for a second.
He went all the way across town in a city
(14:10):
he didn't know, which is a hard place to get around,
to meet a family that he didn't know, just because
he heard that there were some kids that were kind
of having a tough time. So why do you think
he did that. It's a really good question. I think
that he heard that there were some kids that grew
(14:32):
up watching the show and we're having I think a
tough time. There wasn't a whole lot of stuff to
look forward to, and then it would be amazing if
he would meet them, And he apparently just jumped at
the opportunity. And so of course, you know, um, you
can imagine a number of people that might want to
meet Fred Rodgers or I don't know, maybe no one
asked him. Yeah, he just came and did it, and
he spent real time. He like sat on the couch
(14:54):
and did a whole puppet show and I played with them,
like I got the hold. I mean that was crazy.
I mean I got to old the King and the
owl and the cat and like like uh. And then
he had dinner with us, and then we drove him
back to the American Embassy where he was staying, and
so I sat in the back seat of our station wagon.
It was one of the only subarus in the entire
(15:15):
Soviet Union. And we sat in the backseat and I
just sat there with Mr Rogers as we drove him
across town and drove him to the front of marrin Ambazy. Oh.
And he was asking questions because he didn't know anything
about Moscow. So when we're driving, he was asking questions
about what's this, what's this? I knew the answers like.
I was like, oh, that's um you know, that's the
monument to your your gagar And he was like, oh,
(15:36):
that's interesting. Or do you like space? I was like, yeah,
I like space. I remember just wanting, like always fantasizing
about friends coming so I could tell them about what
this place was like. And I'd be like, I know
this looks weird, but look at this. This is you know, look, yes,
it's normal to see like an entire army going down
the street, you know, like, oh yeah, we see tanks
all the time. Oh yeah, they parade these missiles around constantly,
(15:59):
like I know it looks now, but that's what life
is here. And it never happened because no one ever
came to visit. And I got to give that towards
Mr Rodgers. He must have known that just by him
being there this was had suddenly transformed Moscow, a place
that I hated as a child, into the most magical
(16:21):
place I've ever been. And then got to ride to
Moscow with Mr Rogers and point out all this stuff.
I mean, I still look back at that, it's like
it was just magical when I was a kid. As
odd as it sounds, I did the exact same thing
(16:41):
I imagined Ricky Ricardo for some reason, time traveling from
the nineteen fifties to my childhood in the eighties and
letting me explain everything to him Walkman and pac Man
and Prince. I think now that that was a cure
for a kind of loneliness that I felt. That Kristoff
(17:02):
felt that maybe a lot of kids feel this world
is so big and so many things are happening to
us all the time, and we feel sometimes like we're
little helpless creatures in the midst of all of it.
So maybe it's just really nice to think that there's
someone somewhere who cares what you like, specifically you are
(17:24):
seeing and experiencing. That's the gift that Fred Rogers gave
to christof that night, and maybe that's the gift he
gave to all of us. You know. I have this really,
this weird question that's been on my mind. I was thinking,
I think a lot about good people and what makes
a good person, and so much of what Fred Rogers
(17:46):
was about was about ways and systems and methods for
being a good person, and I I keep returning to
Wise and everyone like that. I want to ask you, first,
do you think of yourself as a good person? I do,
but I think it's taken a lot of time and
struggle and experiences with not always being the best person,
(18:10):
interactions with not always the best people, but then also
the experience of having genuine connection, uh and experiences with
people that consider really good and I think that has
helped me become a better person and someone I'm still
trying to be um because I guess I wonder, I mean,
(18:31):
I I have this obvious question, which is why isn't
everyone like Fred Rogers? Like? Why? Why like I assume
that you don't think of yourself as being capable of
being what he was or doing what he does not
I guess I want to know what you feel like
in your own life stands in your way. It's a
really good question. I don't know, you know, like why
(19:00):
I think that I just might not have the patience
that he had for people? You know, I think just
the um at least not always, you know. I think
I have my moments, and I've certainly been inspired by
him and this memory, and I love what I do
for a living. But for someone to be like that
all the time, to have everyone who's ever had an
(19:21):
interaction with you to just feel seen and heard while
also like embraced and almost hugged in a way, even
if he wasn't doing that physically, I doubt that the
people in my life would say that I'm like that,
you know, um uh, But what gets in my way?
(19:47):
You know? I guess that I think, um, probably cynicism,
you know. I think I've struggled a lot with this
question of like what is like just unconditional love and
how do you practice that even with everybody? Yeah, So
I'm working on a podcast right now about my relationship
with one of the world's most wanted terrorists. And I
(20:09):
had a connection with this guy who was wanted by
you know, everyone in the world pretty much, the CIA,
the State's Department, the FBI, the African Union. He had
a five million do I bound you on his head
and I was the only one I knew where he was.
And he would call me in the middle of the
night just to chat because he just wanted to connect
with another human being towards the end, and while he
(20:30):
was hoping I could help keep him alive. When I
couldn't do that, we would just talk and it started
just a great scoop for me. But then came this
person that I couldn't help but start caring about. And
that gets really confusing, you know, especially when it's somebody
that has done terrible things, you know, or supposedly done
(20:52):
terrible things, or that's supposed to be an enemy, or
somebody that you hate, or somebody that deserves to be killed. UM.
And I find all human beings, um people, Everyone you
know is worthy of being listened to and being and
(21:14):
spoken to. It doesn't mean taking all their b s.
It doesn't mean, like you know, set yourself up to
be abused or or or taken advantage of. UM. But
I think everyone, all any of us just want us
to be loved and to be heard and to be
seen and UM. And I think that your presence is
(21:37):
the greatest gift you can give somebody. I just think
that's what I believe. It's just actually learning how to
be genuinely present, Like in that moment that he came
down and sat and just like looked me in the eye,
asked me a genuine question and then just don't feel
like he felt he needed to be anywhere else. That's presence.
And I feel like when you can give that to
(21:57):
another human, that's the best gift you can give somebody.
And I think what keeps us, and right a second,
speak myself, what keeps us from doing that is it's
just really hard to be present, you know. I think
that we our minds are scattered with our wants of
what we think we want, what our desires are, with
the ways that we think we're going to get it,
our relationship to the world, how we think the world
perceives us. UM. We care a lot about a lot
(22:20):
of stuff that usually isn't relevant. And I think that's
what gets in the way I want to. I want
to ask you, um about the world as it currently stands.
And like the last thing he did on television was
a public service announcement after nine eleven m that was
(22:41):
the last time we saw him on TV. Uh and
he died soon after that. And when I watched that footage,
I often feel like I'm watching a person who has
ultimately been outmatched by just the huge well of capacity
of for badness among people. And when I look at
the world today, it does seem like so much of
(23:05):
that badness has like gained energy and momentum and focus
and force and push. And I wonder, your journalist, your
job is to investigate all, to investigate the human condition
via our individual stories and the stories we pursue. And
I wonder, how do I even frame this question? Do
you think A? Do you think his impact can be felt?
(23:29):
And B do you think it's enough? God dense questions? Um,
I think that it's up to us. Two. I think
(23:52):
it's up to us to allow his impact to be felt.
And what I mean by that is, look, eventually, we
can't be relying on Fred Rogers, especially after he's dead.
We have to be Fred Rodgers. I mean, we're grown up,
you know, like I'm about to be forty. I was
(24:12):
watching Mr Rogers a kid. It's time for me to
be Mr Rogers, you know, it's time for all of us,
me Mr Rogers, especially now. It is crazy because if
we don't, then we we we really are up Ship's Creek,
you know, like we we are in a time right
now where people are so cynical and scared and frankly
(24:34):
acting bananas, all of us. Whether you want to blame
the people that are making you bananas or your bananas
or whatever it is, um uh, I think we all
just need those quiet moments of reflection, and it's our
job to embody it. I mean, look, we can't. That's
another reason, like we can't. We can't idealize him either
in a sense where like you know, he's gone. What
(24:57):
we have to do is take his teachings and try
to embody the ourselves so so you know, we can
evolve and become one of our our own version of
that love that he was able to embody, because that
is what I think the world could really use right now.
And we can't be looking for a savior or or
I think be just sad over one like, hey, there
(25:19):
was one guy that was really good at this once,
Like why go and hang out with a kid you've
never met her family? And you know in Russia, um
who's having a tough time because because you can, because
you have the he had the ability to. Christof still
(25:44):
has a photo of that night. There's Fred on the
couch with X the owl and there's Christoph beaming. When
you genuinely learn how to listen and you're genuinely interested
in somebody just because they're them, not because of any
(26:06):
other reason that I think I got from just that interaction,
I think that's what stayed with me. Screw Moscow next time.
(26:26):
When Fred tells us that we are special, he meant
that there's something deep down inside each of us, not
to some of us, but each of us without which
humanity cannot survive. Finding Fred is produced by Transmitter Media.
Our team is Dan O'donald, Jordan Bailey, and Mattie Foley.
(26:47):
Our editor is Sarah Nicks. The executive producer for Transmitter
Media is Greta Cohne. Executive producers that fatherly are Simon
Isaacs and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team at I
Heart Media, and also thanks to Christoph u Sol. Our
show is mixed by Rick Kwan, music by Blue Dot
Sessions and Alison Layton Brown. If you like what you're hearing,
rate the show, review the show, and tell a friend
(27:10):
I'm Carvel Wallace, thank you for listening. Teething can be
a real nightmare for your little ones. Highlands Naturals Baby
oral pain relief tablets can help ease the pain. It's gentle,
natural active ingredients like camemeo and arnica soothe your baby's mouth,
(27:32):
and gums made with ingredients derived from plant minerals and
other sources free of harsh chemicals. You can count on
Highlands for serious pain relief for your teething baby. Highlands
is a kinder way to care for teething. Visit Highlands
dot com, slash kind that's h y l A n
d s dot com. Slash Kind claims based on traditional
homeopath practice, not accept the medical evidence, not FT evaluated.
(27:52):
If you work in I T, you'll want to check
out change Makers, a podcast profiling I T industry leaders.
We dive deep into i T profiles and learn what
it takes to drive large scale i transformations for successful businesses.
Visit change makers dot fresh works dot com. Hi, I'm
Ebony Money and I'm Rick Schwartz and we're here from
(28:14):
the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, the global conservation organization
behind the world cham of San Diego Zoo and Safari Park,
and together we're excited to announce the podcast Amazing Wildlife.
Here incredible stories about wildlife and the global efforts to
save it as we explore the connection between humans, wildlife,
and the environment. Listen to Amazing Wildlife on the I
(28:37):
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Teething can be a real nightmare for your little ones.
Highlands Naturals Baby oral pain relief tablets can help ease
the pain. It's gentle, natural active ingredients like camemel and
arnica suit your baby's mouth, and gums made with ingredients
derived from plant minerals and other sources free of harsh chemicals.
You can count on Highlands for serious pain relief for
your teething baby. Highlands is a kinder way to care
(00:21):
for teething. Visit Highlands dot com. Slash kind that's h
y L A n d S dot com. Slash Kind
claims based on traditional homeopathrocratic is not accept The medical
evidence not ft evaluated. Do you suffer from zoom fatigue?
Utter dot ai is here to help use auter dot
ai to get automatic meeting notes. You can even step
away from the meeting and catch up any time. Get
started for free at auter dot ai or download in
(00:43):
the app stores. That's otter dot ai. Do you suffer
from zoom fatigue? Utter dot ai is here to help
use auto dot ai to get automatic meeting notes. You
can even step away from the meeting and catch up
any time. Get started for free at auter dot ai
or download in the app stores. That's otter dot Ai.
Hey everyone, it's Carvel and before we get into this episode,
(01:04):
I want to ask you a favor. Throughout this series,
we've talked a lot about how Fred Rogers has helped
show us how to make the world a kinder place,
a better place. But now we want to hear from you.
We want to hear a story about when someone in
your life showed you what it means to be a helper.
Maybe it's someone in your family, or someone in your community,
(01:27):
or someone that you haven't seen since you were a kid,
but that you still think about something they did to
help you. Whoever they are, wherever they are, however they're helping,
we want to hear about it. So give us a
call at three three six five one five zero five
to nine. Again, that's three three six five one five
zero five to nine, and tell us a story about
(01:48):
someone who has shown you how to be a helper
and we might just play it on an upcoming episode. Again,
that number is three three six five one five zero
five two nine, Or you can tweet your story with
the hashtag finding Fred. Okay, now let's start the show
with a Nasha Studio. That sounds studio. Well, that's very
(02:11):
much like the place we make our television visits. It's
and Mr Rogers is in Moscow. Here would you like
to play? Of course I would. I'd love to touch
a piano wherever I go by. The Soviet Union has
(02:48):
just begun opening up dialogue with the US, and that
somehow landed Mr Rogers on the set of good Night,
Little Ones, the USSRS longest running children's pro graham. Back then,
there was no television except for one channel that was
played in Russian, which I could understand mostly the news propaganda,
and then there was a childhood program that played at
(03:10):
night that I also couldn't understand. Kristof Putzel was an
American kid living in Moscow at the time. Both my
parents were journalists. They were assigned to cover what ended
up being the collapse of the Soviet Union. My parents
job was to make sense of a place that didn't
(03:30):
make a lot of sense, where information was controlled. Kristof's
father was the bureau chief for the Associated Press. His
mother was the deputy bureau chief for Time magazine. They
moved to Moscow in and took seven year old Kristof
and his sister along with them. My parents had told
me that the biggest toy store in the entire Soviet
(03:51):
Union was across the street from our house. This was
the way they tempted me to go there and agreeeded
this whole thing as a seven year old. And let
me tell you, it's the first time ever gone to
a toy store anyway. It's nothing I wanted to buy,
because there was nothing on the shelves. Um. There was
I think shoes, some clothes, and a couple of tin
toy things and some really complicated models that I think
(04:12):
we're for adults. And that was it. This is the
biggest toy store seven It's nothing I wanted. I'm Carlo
Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast about Fred
Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in partnership with
(04:34):
Transmitter Media. We often talk about how adaptable kids are,
but Kristoff says, the move to Moscow was really hard. Frankly,
I was pretty depressed. Um, you just have to understand
just how hard Russia was in the eighties, especially for
(04:58):
a kid, you know, at being so cold, dark, no
access to stuff. Um. Sometimes friends would record like tapes
that cassette tapes and then mail them and I would
listen to their voices. We didn't live in an embassy.
We lived in a square foot apartment my mom, my dad,
and my sister, myself and our Golden retriever, only golden
(05:19):
retriever in the entire civic Union. People thought that it
was a lion. Our apartment was bugged because the KGB
always kept a close eye on them, and they would
follow us anytime we were going outside of the city.
They would constantly try to attempt to set up my
parents to see if they were actually spies, and always
(05:40):
monitored whatever stories they're working on. There was always somebody
watching and nothing to watch on TV, no familiar cultural
touchstones like Sesame Street or three to one contact. So
I would watch the same VHS tapes over and over
and over again that people would mail from the US.
(06:00):
They would just tape whatever was on TV and mail it.
We'd get it three, four or five months later, if
we got it at all. And those were like gold
I like you, Yes, I do, I like you. And
on a few of those precious VHS tapes were old
episodes of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. Certainly do I'm glad you
(06:27):
were with me on my swing. So Mr Rogers in
Moscow was big news, and Christoph's parents managed to get
word to Fred telling him about their depressed kid. And
for Fred Rogers, a note about a sad child was
like the bat signal. There was one day when my
parents told me to make sure I was home for dinner,
(06:49):
which I always was, but I remember being weird. They're like,
now there's a special dinner tonight. I just remember a
knock on the door and I'd sort of gotten used
to being let owned by surprises of them trying to
like cheer us up in communist Moscow, you know. And
I opened the door and there's Mr Rodgers in his
(07:09):
card again and the blue shoes, and my jaw apparently
just dropped. I remember just being awe struck. I didn't
understand why Mr Rogers was at my door. I grew
up watching Mr Rogers. I knew every character, I knew
I'd probably had seen every episode at least for that
time frame. Um, And so there I was, and he
(07:31):
walks in the door, and he gets down to my
eye level and shakes my hand and introduces himself as
Fred Rogers and asked what my name was, and I
don't even know if I could get the words out
of my mouth because Mr Rodgers in the apartment, and um,
(07:52):
it was just him on his own and just by himself.
I think it was the first time in my life
where I felt seen by an adult, like when he
got down to my eye level, introduced himself and looked
(08:13):
me in the eye. Of course, I've had adults introduced
themselves to me a million times up to that point
and asked me what my name was, But the way
that he looked at me, I felt like you saw me.
Then he came into the living room and we sat
(08:34):
down and he opened up his suitcase. He had a
suitcase with him. I feel like it was a briefcase,
but it must have been bigger than that. Um. And
he opens it up and they're all the puppets. I
had never put together that Mr Rodgers did the voices.
I didn't, And so suddenly they were talking and I
had King Friday and um and actually owl in my
(08:59):
on my couch. This is a real moment for a child,
you know. And UM, I think what just really struck
me about it was how normal it felt. I mean,
not normal. What's the word. Um, it's while it felt surreal,
it felt like I was in I was in the
land of make believe. Suddenly my couch suddenly turned into
(09:21):
that in my apartment, and um, it was just like
the show. I mean, he was wearing the same stuff.
This isn't a like since it set. It wasn't like
backstage he was. He had the cardigan on and the
blue shoes. Like I mean, first of all, I'm just
really struck by the kind of person you have to be,
(09:44):
the kind of self possession you have to have to
just walk into some strangers houses and spend the evening
with them, like we don't, Like, we don't know. I
don't know how to do that. I'm like, like, ostensibly
my job is to be charismatic in public, and I
still don't. I don't know if I would know how
to just go into someone's house with nothing but myself
(10:06):
and his suitcase of puppets to spend the evening with
them and their family. I have kids, and oftentimes I
think about the ways in which illusions are created for
them and also shattered for them. And so it's a
tailor as old as time that like the kid has
someone that they they have idolized, and television. Then they
(10:28):
meet them and then the person is not who they
thought they were and they're crushed. And you had the
opposite experience. You you sort of thought this guy was fine,
and then you meet him and you find out that
he's exactly who as good as he says he is.
But I wonder if you ever felt let down. Later.
Mom one time took me to the set of Sesame
Street because she was working on a story for Time magazine.
(10:48):
And I went and I was horrified because Big Bird
was walking around without the top, you know, just the legs,
and the muppets were all like, you know, like lying
there like corpses, and and they'd warned my mom, they said,
you know, credit, they said, we don't usually encourage children
to come here. And it was a little jarring. Um,
(11:10):
But that wasn't the case with Mr Rodgers. More from
Christoph in just a moment. Teething can be a real
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A n d s dot com. Slash Kind claims based
on traditional homeopath a practice not accept the men coll evidence,
not ft evaluated. Hi. I'm Ebony Money and I'm Ricked
Schwartz and we're here from the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance,
the global conservation organization behind the world famous San Diego
Zoo and Safari Park, and together we're excited to announce
(12:17):
Amazing Wildlife, a new show from my Heart Radio that
will connect you more deeply to wildlife, our work at
the San Diego Zoo and our conservation efforts around the globe.
As the ambassador of our alliance, I'm excited to share
our stories of the thousands of plants and animals in
our parks and conservation hubs worldwide. Our work spans six continents,
(12:37):
so don't forget your passport. And as a senior editor,
I'll be bringing you stories from wildlife care specialists, veterinarians,
and researchers. Together we'll learn more about the wildlife you
love and discover plants and animals you've never heard of before.
We hope you've gained a new appreciation of plants and
animals through our conversations as we explore the connection between humans, wildlife,
(12:59):
and the environ. Listen to Amazing Wildlife on the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
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otter dot Ai. Mr Rogers visit has stuck with Christoph.
(13:47):
It's not just that Mr Rogers got down on one
knee and looked him in the eye, or that he
got to play with King Friday and X the Owl
it's the kindness of Mr Rogers, the effort Fred made
in the midst of a busy trip to help a kid,
like I mean, just think about this for a second.
He went all the way across town in a city
(14:10):
he didn't know, which is a hard place to get around,
to meet a family that he didn't know, just because
he heard that there were some kids that were kind
of having a tough time. So why do you think
he did that. It's a really good question. I think
that he heard that there were some kids that grew
(14:32):
up watching the show and we're having I think a
tough time. There wasn't a whole lot of stuff to
look forward to, and then it would be amazing if
he would meet them, And he apparently just jumped at
the opportunity. And so of course, you know, um, you
can imagine a number of people that might want to
meet Fred Rodgers or I don't know, maybe no one
asked him. Yeah, he just came and did it, and
he spent real time. He like sat on the couch
(14:54):
and did a whole puppet show and I played with them,
like I got the hold. I mean that was crazy.
I mean I got to old the King and the
owl and the cat and like like uh. And then
he had dinner with us, and then we drove him
back to the American Embassy where he was staying, and
so I sat in the back seat of our station wagon.
It was one of the only subarus in the entire
(15:15):
Soviet Union. And we sat in the backseat and I
just sat there with Mr Rogers as we drove him
across town and drove him to the front of marrin Ambazy. Oh.
And he was asking questions because he didn't know anything
about Moscow. So when we're driving, he was asking questions
about what's this, what's this? I knew the answers like.
I was like, oh, that's um you know, that's the
monument to your your gagar And he was like, oh,
(15:36):
that's interesting. Or do you like space? I was like, yeah,
I like space. I remember just wanting, like always fantasizing
about friends coming so I could tell them about what
this place was like. And I'd be like, I know
this looks weird, but look at this. This is you know, look, yes,
it's normal to see like an entire army going down
the street, you know, like, oh yeah, we see tanks
all the time. Oh yeah, they parade these missiles around constantly,
(15:59):
like I know it looks now, but that's what life
is here. And it never happened because no one ever
came to visit. And I got to give that towards
Mr Rodgers. He must have known that just by him
being there this was had suddenly transformed Moscow, a place
that I hated as a child, into the most magical
(16:21):
place I've ever been. And then got to ride to
Moscow with Mr Rogers and point out all this stuff.
I mean, I still look back at that, it's like
it was just magical when I was a kid. As
odd as it sounds, I did the exact same thing
(16:41):
I imagined Ricky Ricardo for some reason, time traveling from
the nineteen fifties to my childhood in the eighties and
letting me explain everything to him Walkman and pac Man
and Prince. I think now that that was a cure
for a kind of loneliness that I felt. That Kristoff
(17:02):
felt that maybe a lot of kids feel this world
is so big and so many things are happening to
us all the time, and we feel sometimes like we're
little helpless creatures in the midst of all of it.
So maybe it's just really nice to think that there's
someone somewhere who cares what you like, specifically you are
(17:24):
seeing and experiencing. That's the gift that Fred Rogers gave
to christof that night, and maybe that's the gift he
gave to all of us. You know. I have this really,
this weird question that's been on my mind. I was thinking,
I think a lot about good people and what makes
a good person, and so much of what Fred Rogers
(17:46):
was about was about ways and systems and methods for
being a good person, and I I keep returning to
Wise and everyone like that. I want to ask you, first,
do you think of yourself as a good person? I do,
but I think it's taken a lot of time and
struggle and experiences with not always being the best person,
(18:10):
interactions with not always the best people, but then also
the experience of having genuine connection, uh and experiences with
people that consider really good and I think that has
helped me become a better person and someone I'm still
trying to be um because I guess I wonder, I mean,
(18:31):
I I have this obvious question, which is why isn't
everyone like Fred Rogers? Like? Why? Why like I assume
that you don't think of yourself as being capable of
being what he was or doing what he does not
I guess I want to know what you feel like
in your own life stands in your way. It's a
really good question. I don't know, you know, like why
(19:00):
I think that I just might not have the patience
that he had for people? You know, I think just
the um at least not always, you know. I think
I have my moments, and I've certainly been inspired by
him and this memory, and I love what I do
for a living. But for someone to be like that
all the time, to have everyone who's ever had an
(19:21):
interaction with you to just feel seen and heard while
also like embraced and almost hugged in a way, even
if he wasn't doing that physically, I doubt that the
people in my life would say that I'm like that,
you know, um uh, But what gets in my way?
(19:47):
You know? I guess that I think, um, probably cynicism,
you know. I think I've struggled a lot with this
question of like what is like just unconditional love and
how do you practice that even with everybody? Yeah, So
I'm working on a podcast right now about my relationship
with one of the world's most wanted terrorists. And I
(20:09):
had a connection with this guy who was wanted by
you know, everyone in the world pretty much, the CIA,
the State's Department, the FBI, the African Union. He had
a five million do I bound you on his head
and I was the only one I knew where he was.
And he would call me in the middle of the
night just to chat because he just wanted to connect
with another human being towards the end, and while he
(20:30):
was hoping I could help keep him alive. When I
couldn't do that, we would just talk and it started
just a great scoop for me. But then came this
person that I couldn't help but start caring about. And
that gets really confusing, you know, especially when it's somebody
that has done terrible things, you know, or supposedly done
(20:52):
terrible things, or that's supposed to be an enemy, or
somebody that you hate, or somebody that deserves to be killed. UM.
And I find all human beings, um people, Everyone you
know is worthy of being listened to and being and
(21:14):
spoken to. It doesn't mean taking all their b s.
It doesn't mean, like you know, set yourself up to
be abused or or or taken advantage of. UM. But
I think everyone, all any of us just want us
to be loved and to be heard and to be
seen and UM. And I think that your presence is
(21:37):
the greatest gift you can give somebody. I just think
that's what I believe. It's just actually learning how to
be genuinely present, Like in that moment that he came
down and sat and just like looked me in the eye,
asked me a genuine question and then just don't feel
like he felt he needed to be anywhere else. That's presence.
And I feel like when you can give that to
(21:57):
another human, that's the best gift you can give somebody.
And I think what keeps us, and right a second,
speak myself, what keeps us from doing that is it's
just really hard to be present, you know. I think
that we our minds are scattered with our wants of
what we think we want, what our desires are, with
the ways that we think we're going to get it,
our relationship to the world, how we think the world
perceives us. UM. We care a lot about a lot
(22:20):
of stuff that usually isn't relevant. And I think that's
what gets in the way I want to. I want
to ask you, um about the world as it currently stands.
And like the last thing he did on television was
a public service announcement after nine eleven m that was
(22:41):
the last time we saw him on TV. Uh and
he died soon after that. And when I watched that footage,
I often feel like I'm watching a person who has
ultimately been outmatched by just the huge well of capacity
of for badness among people. And when I look at
the world today, it does seem like so much of
(23:05):
that badness has like gained energy and momentum and focus
and force and push. And I wonder, your journalist, your
job is to investigate all, to investigate the human condition
via our individual stories and the stories we pursue. And
I wonder, how do I even frame this question? Do
you think A? Do you think his impact can be felt?
(23:29):
And B do you think it's enough? God dense questions? Um,
I think that it's up to us. Two. I think
(23:52):
it's up to us to allow his impact to be felt.
And what I mean by that is, look, eventually, we
can't be relying on Fred Rogers, especially after he's dead.
We have to be Fred Rodgers. I mean, we're grown up,
you know, like I'm about to be forty. I was
(24:12):
watching Mr Rogers a kid. It's time for me to
be Mr Rogers, you know, it's time for all of us,
me Mr Rogers, especially now. It is crazy because if
we don't, then we we we really are up Ship's Creek,
you know, like we we are in a time right
now where people are so cynical and scared and frankly
(24:34):
acting bananas, all of us. Whether you want to blame
the people that are making you bananas or your bananas
or whatever it is, um uh, I think we all
just need those quiet moments of reflection, and it's our
job to embody it. I mean, look, we can't. That's
another reason, like we can't. We can't idealize him either
in a sense where like you know, he's gone. What
(24:57):
we have to do is take his teachings and try
to embody the ourselves so so you know, we can
evolve and become one of our our own version of
that love that he was able to embody, because that
is what I think the world could really use right now.
And we can't be looking for a savior or or
I think be just sad over one like, hey, there
(25:19):
was one guy that was really good at this once,
Like why go and hang out with a kid you've
never met her family? And you know in Russia, um
who's having a tough time because because you can, because
you have the he had the ability to. Christof still
(25:44):
has a photo of that night. There's Fred on the
couch with X the owl and there's Christoph beaming. When
you genuinely learn how to listen and you're genuinely interested
in somebody just because they're them, not because of any
(26:06):
other reason that I think I got from just that interaction,
I think that's what stayed with me. Screw Moscow next time.
(26:26):
When Fred tells us that we are special, he meant
that there's something deep down inside each of us, not
to some of us, but each of us without which
humanity cannot survive. Finding Fred is produced by Transmitter Media.
Our team is Dan O'donald, Jordan Bailey, and Mattie Foley.
(26:47):
Our editor is Sarah Nicks. The executive producer for Transmitter
Media is Greta Cohne. Executive producers that fatherly are Simon
Isaacs and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team at I
Heart Media, and also thanks to Christoph u Sol. Our
show is mixed by Rick Kwan, music by Blue Dot
Sessions and Alison Layton Brown. If you like what you're hearing,
rate the show, review the show, and tell a friend
(27:10):
I'm Carvel Wallace, thank you for listening. Teething can be
a real nightmare for your little ones. Highlands Naturals Baby
oral pain relief tablets can help ease the pain. It's gentle,
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(27:32):
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d s dot com. Slash Kind claims based on traditional
homeopath practice, not accept the medical evidence, not FT evaluated.
(27:52):
If you work in I T, you'll want to check
out change Makers, a podcast profiling I T industry leaders.
We dive deep into i T profiles and learn what
it takes to drive large scale i transformations for successful businesses.
Visit change makers dot fresh works dot com. Hi, I'm
Ebony Money and I'm Rick Schwartz and we're here from
(28:14):
the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, the global conservation organization
behind the world cham of San Diego Zoo and Safari Park,
and together we're excited to announce the podcast Amazing Wildlife.
Here incredible stories about wildlife and the global efforts to
save it as we explore the connection between humans, wildlife,
and the environment. Listen to Amazing Wildlife on the I
(28:37):
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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