David And Severn

Meet David Suzuki and Severn Cullis-Suzuki, the father-daughter duo who opened Raffi’s eyes to the greatest crisis of our time.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you think it's time to sing Baby Bluka together?
I do have one gripe I want to tell Rafie.
I just spent a week with my grandchildren in Victoria.
They're two twins three and a half, and I showed

(00:23):
them a video of Raffie singing Baby Bluga and my God.
They played that so many times it became what do
they call it? An earworm? And that's you know. I
love this song, but too much is too much? So
the complaint is the song is too good and unforgettable. Okay.

(00:49):
This is David Suzuki and his daughter Severn Cullis Suzuki.
There a father daughter power duo. CBC viewers voted David
as one of greatest Canadians of all time, Wayne Gretzky,
Alexander Graham Bell and David Suzuki impressive company. He's been

(01:10):
a scientist and broadcaster for over fifty years and an
outspoken advocate for climate action since the nineteen nineties, and
Severn is an environmentalist in her own rank. When she
was twelve, she spoke at a conference of global leaders,
calling out adults for destroying the planet and challenging them

(01:32):
to do better. Thirty years later, A video of the
speech has more than thirty two million views on YouTube.
She's like the original Greta Tuneberg. David and Severn are
Canadian activist royalty. They also happened to be Raphi's former neighbors.
Back in the eighties, Raffie was already beginning to think

(01:54):
about his legacy. Could he give his audience something more
than just sweet, gentle songs. Then a radio program on
the CBC would shake Raffi to his core. It was
called It's a Matter of Survival and it was hosted
by David Suzuki. I'm David Suzuki. We have just over

(02:15):
ten years until the end of the century. Those ten
years will determine if and how we will exist on
this planet. You will make that decision. It's a matter
of survival. Both David and Severn would inspire the next

(02:38):
phase of Ralphie's career. They taught him what respectful love
between a parent and a child truly looked like, where
respect means telling them the truth about our world. The
thing is, the truth is messy. It can be overwhelming
for adults. So how do we talk to our children
about the world without scaring the crap out of them,

(02:59):
and how do we keep hope alive for ourselves and
our kids when the urge to give up is so strong.
I'm Chris Garcia and this is Finding Raffie, a ten
part series from My Heart Radio and Fatherly in partnership
with Rococo Punch about the life, philosophy, and the work

(03:22):
of Raffie, the man behind the music. We did our
first program for television on global warming. I realized that
global warming we called it then, was a real threat.

(03:42):
I called it in my script a slow motion catastrophe.
I knew that we had to get going on it immediately,
so I interviewed a hundred and forty experts and scientists
around the world and put together five part radio series
on CBC called it a matter of s bival. To economists,
growth is the main reason governments, industries, and societies exist.

(04:07):
If our economy fails to grow, we call it a
recession or a setback. A society that says enough, we've
got enough, We've got more than enough, let's just stay
at this level is simply inconceivable. Yet global warming says
if we continue to grow, we may die. When Ralphie

(04:36):
heard this, he got chills. He says it affected every
cell of his being, and he became frightened for the
future of his niece, his nephew, his young fans, and
the world they would inherit. He felt compelled to act.
Turns out he wasn't the only one moved by it
in Canada. I have to say that the radio is

(04:56):
still a very powerful medium of communication. That was especially
so back in the eighties, and it got over sixteen
thousand letters, and the outpouring of the letters said, look,

(05:18):
I heard your show. You scared the hell out of me.
I agree with what you're saying, but what can I do?
It's a matter of survival. Marked a shift in David's
career from scientists to climate activist. David didn't have all
the answers his listeners were asking for, but he wanted

(05:41):
to find some. He also wanted to learn more about
the root of the problem, so in he and his
wife Tara Cullis, who Severns mother, started the David Suzuki Foundation,
and its first couple of years, David and Tara were
basically funding the whole operation themselves. Then Raphie stepped into help.

(06:01):
He was two blocks away from us, and he called
actually and said David tar could I could I see
you for a minute or two? And we were so involved. Gee,
Raffie love to see it, but we're just going flat
out right now. Could we put it off for well?
He called again, could I come and see you again?

(06:22):
We were too busy, and finally he said, look, I'll
drop by your house and just drop off in an envelope.
And it was an envelope with a check for fifty
dollars and that was really for a struggling organization. It
was a huge aid to get us started at that
early age. So Raffie was there and uh, I can

(06:45):
never thank Raffie enough for that help. So do you
pick up the phone quickly or answer the door quicker
when he calls now? Because he said just substantial Yes, No,
he's turned out to be a friend. That's amazing and
several Do you remember the quesion that it's a matter
of survival had on you as as a kid. Well,
I was a young child at the time, and I

(07:08):
was really impacted by the activism that my parents were
involved with with indigenous peoples at the time. So our
family actually were able to travel down to southern Para
in Brazil and to a kaya Pol village and spent
some time there, and for myself, I was about eight
or nine years old, it was just this life changing

(07:29):
experience to be in a place where the people lived
in the rainforest and still lived with the rhythms of
the natural world. It just absolutely blew my mind. And
when we left the village of oak Ri, which was
this Kayapol village, I could see out of our tiny
little plane that the forest was on fire, and that

(07:53):
had such a huge impact on me. It was about
so it was all kind of you happening at the
same time. And uh, I was a child, but I've
been very lucky to always have been raised with a
feeling that I have a voice and I have to
use it. So let me let me take it from here.

(08:14):
Seve just giving you parents the point of view. She
was an activist from very early on, but after the
Amazon experience she started this group of of young girls
called echo the Environmental Children's Organization. So she came into
me in in uh nineteen said Dad, Dad, I hear

(08:38):
there's going to be this big meeting in Brazil. Are
you going? I said no, no, she's She said, well,
I think Echoed should go down there, I said, save,
it's going to be a huge meeting. It's going to
be a circus. I think you used the term gone show.
It'll be a gone show. So I was I was
very very discouraging of her. You know, I admit that

(09:01):
was a stupid thing on my part, but I was thinking, gosh,
what are these children gonna do down in this place?
After the break seven David and the big meeting in
Brazil Summit was held in Rio de jan Arrow. It

(09:28):
was created by the u N so countries could work
together on issues like reducing pollution and finding alternatives to
fossil fuels. Young Severn and her friends were determined to go.
And we heard about this meeting and thought, wow, you
know there's going to be all of these old men
sitting around talking about our future. Somebody should be there

(09:53):
to represent what's truly at stake. So they started fundraising. Well,
you know, I got a hand it to your said,
she went out and hustled. I think it was four
dollars And Raffie was a big supporter of us. Raffie
was a major donor to that. Yeah, that's incredible because

(10:14):
he speaks about the summit in Rio. It was a
huge deal for him, and he says it was a
turning point in his career. Do you remember him being
there and feeling a support at the conference? He was, absolutely.
He was with us every day. I mean he was
part of the gang. We were the crew. I have

(10:36):
some awesome photos of him with us all and he
was he was one of us. Being associated with him,
I always think helped him as well. I mean he
saw things in a really profound way through that experience
with the young kids. Even though David thought the conference

(10:58):
was just a quote unquote gong show. Key and Tara
went to and any time they attended a meeting or
a speech in Rio, they brought along Severn and her friends,
always encouraging them to share their thoughts and beliefs. The
head of UNICEF heard Severn speak, he was impressed. The

(11:19):
next thing they knew, Severn had an invitation to speak
to the entire conference. This was it, the moment Severn
and her friends had waited for. But would these high
powered global leaders really listen to or care about the
words of a twelve year old girl. So then, of
course it was this frantic Oh we gotta uh, you know,

(11:41):
you've got this chance. What are you gonna say? And
I remember saying to Seth, Now, Seth, this is what
you've got to say. And you turned to me and said, Dad,
I know what I want to say. I knew exactly
what I was doing and why I was there at school,
even in kindergarten. You teach us how to be had
in the world. You teach us to not to fight

(12:05):
with others, to work things out, to respect others, to
clean up our mess, not to hurt other creatures, to share,
not be greedy. Then why do you go out and
do the things you tell us not to do? What
an incredibly powerful statement. Seven you were twelve years old.

(12:26):
What is it like to hear that? Now? I can
remember exactly what that was like delivering that speech. And
even though I've I've heard it many times since in
the last twenty nine years, it's been a really long time.
I I'm still very connected to the emotion that I
had during that time. And yeah, it's just it all

(12:51):
floods back. You've grown up, say you love us, but
I challenge you, please make your actions reflect your words.
Thank you. Seven got a standing ovation. And I remember
at the end of the talk, of course, I was

(13:12):
scared stiff, you know, like when Sev got up to
give it and I was blown away by the way
she did it. But when she sat down again, the
first person to run up and shake her hands was
Al Gore, and Al said, that is the best speech
at anyone's given it this meeting. Didn't he say that
to you? So he did? And uh and then he

(13:33):
shook my hand and sat down, and then you whispered, Hey,
do you know who that is? And I was like,
uh no, he's like he's Al Gore, he's a senator.
He's really good. I can't imagine sitting there and watching
my child, my young child, get up there and getting

(13:54):
a standing ovation like that. That must have been you.
I can't imagine the pride you had in that moment. David.
Oh yeah, my chest about exploded. That was that was
pretty exciting. And So, David, what drew you to environmentalism? Like,

(14:17):
more specifically, I'm curious to know what compelled you to
make a shift from scientists to a vocal advocate for
the health of the planet. Well, you know, I I
never saw myself as an environmentalist. That it's all my life.
My great joy has been out camping and fishing. I'm
an avid fisherman. You know, I'm a third generation Canadian.

(14:41):
In when Japan attack Pearl Harbor, the Japanese Canadians were
considered enemy aliens and all of our possessions were confiscated
and we were shipped to camps for three years after
the war. And where we were shipped was even the
heart of the Rocky Mountains. That's really where my bonding,

(15:05):
I guess, with the natural world. It's just who I
am was based on those experiences in nature. In David's
fifty plus year career as a broadcaster, he's interviewed hundreds
of people around the globe, including leading experts on the
climate crisis, and in those fifty years, he says, one

(15:25):
of the most important lessons he's learned is what's at
the core of ecological destruction, the disconnection between humans and nature.
He remembers interviewing a leader of the indigenous height Of
tribe about clear cut logging and I said, look, when
the trees are all cut down, you'll still be here.
Why are you opposing the logging? And his answer was, well,

(15:50):
of course, when the trees are gone, we'll still be here.
But then, well, I guess we'll be like everybody else.
Now that may seem like what what the heck as
he's saying, but as I reflected on that, it was
such a profound inside into a different way of seeing
our relationship with the world. What he was saying in

(16:11):
that simple statement, when the trees are gone, will just
be like everybody else, was that the Hida don't see
themselves as ending at their skin or their fingertips. That
to be hida means to be connected with the land.
That the air, the water, the soil, that the trees,
the birds and the fish. All of that is what

(16:34):
makes the Hida who they are. And when you destroy
a part of that, you basically you you diminish the Hida.
They've lost a critical part of who they are. And
for me, that was the beginning of my education of
genuine environmentalism was to see the world through indigenous eyes,

(16:57):
which is what is desperately uh Severn. From what I understand,
you also have a deep connection to the indigenous communities
of Canada. Um, can you tell me about that and
how it's changed the way you see the world For me,
I Um, I moved to hidea guay. I'm married to

(17:17):
hide a person and have had you know, have have
my heide of family, have two wonderful little boys. And
it's been an absolute privilege for me to be an
immigrant to high to Guay, to live on hide of land,
in a hide of family, in a hidea way. And
following the lead of my husband who was working very

(17:40):
hard to learn his language and to um, you know,
to really fully realize his his heritage and his identity
as a as a hide of person, I started learning
Hida as well and discover this incredible magic and the
magic as a perspective a worldview. Whenever you speak a

(18:04):
different language, and perhaps Chris, you know you might, um
you speak your heritage language. Um you know that you suddenly,
you know, have a bit of transformation. You become a
bit of a different person, and um you can see
the world you love, see the world in a different way.
And there's a beautiful indigenous academic, scholar, teacher, writer, Robin

(18:28):
while Kimmerer who talks about the import of language and
how it really shapes how we treat nature and how
we treat each other. If we didn't refer to nature, um,
you know, animals, plants, natural things as it this kind
of lifeless, kind of um, you know, sanitized, objectified things,

(18:52):
we would have a very different relationship with the world
around us. So through language we really frame the value
is of our society. And right now, as we're heading
into further into this bottleneck for human survival, we need
to call upon all the creativity that's accessible to humanity,

(19:13):
all the diverse ways of being in this world in
order to navigate and make it through. And indigenous peoples
and world views and languages are going to be key
to that. A bottleneck of human survival that sounds terrifying.
How can I get over my existential dread and tell

(19:36):
my daughter about the fight for her future? More in
a minute. I really want to talk to you both
about climate activism today because to me, I see a
direct connection between Severn talking at the Earth's Summit and

(19:58):
Rio and Greta tunberg A resting the un seven years
later in what is it like for you both to
see kids leading the fight for climate action today? It's
very moving to me to see today's generation of young
people speak up, take to the streets, take the environmental

(20:20):
movement to the next level. It's also quite sad um
for me that you know, these kids have to deal
with it at the same time. You know, it was
always so, We always have depended on our young people
to be the warriors of society. And if you look
at revolutions around the world, they're always led by younger people,

(20:42):
the people who have the clear eyes for what's truly
at stake, and that the imagination and the hope and
the beauty in believing that things can be different. So
I think that this is a continuation of movements throughout
our human history. And I'm so proud of Greta. I'm
so proud of the thousands of other Greta's out there

(21:05):
who have been working for change. The first time that
I met Greta, the first thing I said to her was,
I am so sorry that you are having to do this,
you know, at her age. I feel that young people
should be out of exploring the world. You know, they're

(21:25):
edging out of the nest and they're making you relationships,
finding out things that they really like to do, the
things that matter, and that's what young people should be doing.
Mom and Dad should be the equal warriors on their behalf.
But of course what Greta has done and what Sev
did when she was young. She didn't see the world

(21:46):
in all of its complexity, and so that the simple
truths came out of their their their mouths. And the
power of the words of young people is it. It's
unalloyed by all of these other priorities that come and
impinge on It's simply a straightforward fact. And Greta's message

(22:10):
was so powerful that we learned science. And I listened
to scientists and they say, if we go on this way,
I have no future. Well, oh my god, what what
a powerful message. And as Sev says, thousands and thousands
of Greta's have sprung up all over the world. And gosh,

(22:30):
if we adults can't rally to that, if we don't
love our children and hear that message, then what kind
of a species are we? Okay? So I am a
dad now myself, and I know that at some point
I'm going to have to talk about all of this

(22:51):
with my daughter Sonny, Like, how, David, how do I
talk to her about this? How did you talk about
climate change with your kids? I remember when her younger
sister was up and coming and seven had gone on
to high school, and and Serrica had more or less
taken over echo and I said, hey, Serie, this is

(23:15):
a great project. You and your gang should do this.
And she said why should I? I hear what you
and mom are saying. It's too late, and I was
just blown away. I mean, here's this child listening to
us seven. It prompted her to be motivated to go
out and do something. Serrica heard all this and is thinking, well,

(23:37):
it's too late. Um. The big problem we face now,
and I'm hearing from many many parents of teenagers, is
that they're they're very severe uh psychological problems, are having
to send their kids for for help. And this is
the hard part is if we face the absolute truth

(24:02):
of what the scientists are saying, it's a pretty grim
It's a grim world. And I think we have to
focus on what we're doing at the local level. It
will be the sum total of what we are all trying.
What about you, Severn, how do you talk to your
kids about climate change? Two things when talking to my

(24:22):
kids about our ecological crisis. One is as a superhero
narrative or a narrative of um, you know, this dramatic
story that is unfolding, which is, you know, feels very
much like it's a battle between light and dark. It's

(24:44):
a battle for life, it's a battle for all that
we hold dear. And in that, you know, there is
a real need for all of us to use our voices.
We all have a voice, you know, my mom saying, hey,
why don't you, you know, talk to your friends and
see what they could do. You know, maybe together you
can do something. You know, and you know, we started

(25:06):
with the beach clean up. You know that seemed very
um small at the time with what we were learning about.
But then when you clean up an entire beach with
your friends, the feeling that you have is that you
can take on the world. It is so vital that
we do not model despair because we don't know the future.

(25:27):
We don't know the Greta's that are going to appear
to us in the future and who might transform the
playing field for the environmental movement. We have to keep
that open. And I think right now everybody wants to know,
how do you still stay optimistic or what keeps you
from despair? Or are you hopeful? Or is it too late?

(25:48):
Of course it's not too late, and now we have
to roll up our sleeves and get into the fight,
and especially as parents, as grandparents, we have to join
with our kids and help help them feel empowered because
that is what is going to carry us through. If
we give up now, well then we're absolutely giving up
on our kids. So we have to model that and

(26:11):
we have to we have to show them small things
to big things that we can all do. So I've
got one more question for each of you, and I'll
start with you Severn. What have you learned from your dad?
What have I learned from this guy? I've learned so much,
so much from this man who my whole life long

(26:34):
has always been a warrior for positive change in this world,
and I continue to learn from him. I'm now in
the position of executive director of the David Suzuki Foundation,
so clearly I believe in his vision and mission. And
it's also you know, it's not just the David Suzuki Foundation,
it's also the Tara Cullis Foundation, David's partner in everything,

(26:59):
um mom, and the two of them started this this
incredible organization. You know, back in when I was a kid,
when I was also you know, hey, I started my
own tiny organization, me and my buddies. Um. So I've
watched how they've always tried. They just never give up.

(27:19):
And even today, you know, I mean, Dad's always coming
up with new ideas for you know, hey we can
try this, well what about this? And now, as an
executive director of this organization that is adjacent to him
and his work, he's not on the board, he's not
legally associated, but he is still our our symbol or
our inspiration. He is constantly trying and to me, that

(27:44):
is just so inspiring and powerful. And you know, we
can never give up. And that's truly what I've learned
from David, and I'm grateful for that um that spirit
every day. But Sev, you have to also say you've
learned from my weaknesses and fallacies or well that way

(28:05):
we don't have time to talk about. So you know,
take the compliments well again. And David, what have you
learned from your daughter's saturing? Well, it's uh, it's just
she is part of my commitment into the future. When

(28:29):
she called to say, hey, Dad, I'm pregnant, my immediate
reaction was, gosh, you know, you've been in this game
a long time. You know how how serious the issues
are bringing a child. And I know that a lot
of young people today are facing this crisis of whether
to go on and have a child in a world

(28:51):
that is worsening every day, and her response blew me away.
She said, this is my movement to the planet. I
am committed to the future, and I'm going to do
everything I can. My child is my commitment to this
planet and the future. I feel any parent or grandparent

(29:22):
of young children, you're committed to that future, and you've
got no choice but to do everything you can for
your child or grandchild's future. Here's something my dad used
to say, which means always move forward, don't step back,

(29:50):
even to gain momentum. So we pushed forward in the
face of despair. This is coming from a man who
knew something about despair. He was abandoned by his father
at a young age, was a political prisoner who suffered
from PTSD, and yet he was a great man, husband
and dad. We talk a lot about the anxiety and

(30:16):
distress of generational trauma, but seldom do we talk about
generational grit and greatness, the spirit of survival, the despair
we overcome to continue our family lines, our planet, in
our species. It's these traits that I am hoping to
pass on to Sunny, just like my parents passed on
to me, and that David passed on to his children.

(30:40):
My conversation with David and Severn had me thinking a
lot about this, how hope starts at home and as
we navigate through the trauma of a global pandemic, the
climate crisis, and Chris Pratt as Mario, we need to
do as my dad said, we need to keep pushing forward.

(31:01):
After all, it's a matter of survival. Next time on

(31:28):
finding Raffie and the reason I tried it was I
felt so passionate about this planet that needed all of us.
At the same time, I felt it wasn't a five
year olds job to help the Amazon stay intact. You
know it's it's not a three year old job, right.
If we can show people around the world why nature

(31:49):
is valuable to their lives, then they're going to protect
it in their own enlightened self interest, which is the
best thing we can do. I don't think love alone
is enough to actually make anything stick. It's only one step.
You also have to value it if it's going to
be sticky over the long period of time. Finding Raffie

(32:15):
is a production of my heart radio and fatherly in
partnership with Rococo Punch. It's produced by Catherine Fendalosa, Meredith Hannig,
and James Trout. Production assistance from Charlotte Livingston. Alex French
is our story consultant. Our senior producer is Andrea swahe
Emily Foreman is our editor. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez

(32:37):
Crusado Raphis. Music is courtesy of Troubadour Music Special thanks
to Kim Layton at Troubadour. Seven speeches courtesy of the
United Nations. The clips from It's a Matter of Survival
our courtesy of the CBC, and you can learn more
about the David's Zuki Foundation at David Suzuki dot org.
Our executive producers are Jessica Albert and John Parotti at

(32:59):
Rococo Punch, Ty Trimble, Mike Rothman and Jeff Eisenman at
Fatherly and Me. Chris Garcia. Thank you for listening. H