February 1, 2022 • 31 mins
When fame and fortune aren't enough, Raffi commits to protecting his innocent audience.
Guests in this episode:
- Susan Linn, psychologist, author of Consuming Kids, and founder of Campaign for Commercial-Free Childhood
- Michael Creber, Grammy-nominated musician and composer
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
There, hey, thank you, thank you very much. Would you
wonderful singers all take a deep breath in with me
like this and let it out the year's night. Ronald
Reagan is president. Shows like Miami, Vice and Lifestyles of
the Rich and Famous debut, We devour self help books
(00:29):
and play Madonna's material Girl on a loop once again.
Let's all take a deep breath in together and quiet.
That's the eighties are overflowing with extravagance and excess power suits,
mcmansion's and Wall Street brokers, with slick back hair and
(00:50):
cell phones the size of a dictionary. I want you
to sit back in your chairs for this next song,
and all of you close your eyes and you can
just hear my voice singing this song for you. I'll
wait till all of you are ready. And Raffie, he's
(01:11):
in his thirties. He's become the sought after children's musician
Thanks so Long. His first three albums were huge hits.
He has a national distribution deal his own record label,
and he's packing out concert halls thanks for the clouds.
So he's making real money. He buys a comfortable house
(01:36):
with a big yard for his dog bundles fancy restaurants
and fine wine become part of his daily life. Raffie
has it all. Thanks so Lord, ands for all, Thanks
(01:56):
for all come. So why does he feel like something's missing?
I'm Chris Garcia and this is Finding Raffie, a ten
(02:18):
part series from My Heart Radio and Fatherly in partnership
with Rococo Punch about the life, philosophy, and the work
of Raffie, the man behind the music. I was brought
to a place of wonderment. I mean I had everything
I've ever wanted in life, including being married to the
(02:39):
the cheerleader from Arrival High School. I had a successful
career now. Ralphie wrote Thanks a Lot in ninety at
a time when he and his wife deb were literally
living the dream. And listening to the song, you can
hear so many emotions. Rafie is reflective and vulnerable, maybe
(03:03):
even a little sad. I didn't want to just keep
doing more of the same, because I'm not that kind
of person. I'm not a well, let's do more of
the same now. I'm not like that. I'm a person
who grows with experience and then wonders what's next. So
I remember in meditation, praying to the divine saying, You've
given me everything I've ever wanted. What can I do
(03:25):
for you? How might I proceed in a way that
feels like service? I remember that moment and then, as
if in an answer, I was guided towards writing a
little song about a wee white whale on the goal
and all the goodness that came from that song and
(03:49):
that album, And I still listen to that album on
occasion I'm blown away, how beautiful. I'd like to sing,
Davy bluego with you, hump bam ba ba ba ba
ba ba baaa, Baby Baluga in the deep blue sea,
(04:11):
you swim so wild, and you swim so free heaven
above and see below, and a little white whale along
the gold, Baby Blue got Oh, Baby Baluga is the water.
Baby Belugat was an overnight sensation. It's still one of
(04:34):
Raphae's most famous songs. He wrote it as a tribute
to Cavna, a beluga whale he'd seen at the Vancouver
Public Aquarium. I remember doing a my first cross Canada
promotion tour of an album. Was was for Baby Blue Gut.
I remember being in Edmonton, Alberta uh and I had
(04:54):
eight interviews and one day that was whoa. That was
a lot. So I have sensed that there was something special,
but you couldn't know until the years passed how big
it was going to be. You couldn't imagine. Then you
curl up, snug in your water, b the moon is shine.
That song fast forwarded Raffie stardom. It connected with parents
(05:16):
and their kids, an audience who was craving really good music.
Suddenly everyone wanted a piece of Raffie, and advertisers wanted
a piece of his fans and a little white way
along the gold. You're just a little white way along
the gold. Ralphie says. He was asked to play some
(05:43):
famous venues, places like Madison Square Garden. It was a
sign he'd hit the big time. But rather than join
the likes of Bruce Springsteen and the Rolling Stones, Ralphie
said no because the audience would be full of very
very young children in a very huge environment, not the
(06:03):
best environment for them, let alone me as a performer
trying to reach them. Rapie couldn't stomach the fact that
his face would be projected on massive screens just so
kids sitting in the nosebleeds could catch a glimpse of him. Well,
I'm talking about a musical performance in a hockey rink
(06:24):
in front of twenty people. Come on, I guess who
was like, it's not my idea of a good time. Yeah,
especially I feel like with a crowd that young, it
might be it might be difficult for everyone. That's exactly.
And Chris, it's not even a concert hall. I don't
even have a good acoustics. Come on, you know everything
about it would be a challenge. Why would I throw
(06:45):
myself into that? To me, my music for children and
families has always been about the music, about the feelings,
qualities and the songs that play in the minds and
hearts of the very young. Raphie always put his fans first,
(07:06):
and as his audience grew, he found that he needed
to protect them even more. This is the rugged New
g I Joe Adventure Team, Dane Joy Danger, Hide the
Way Out. Here comes a Mathematics the Car with a Brain.
Now make a much night? No. I remember they used
(07:27):
to be television shows on Saturday morning for kids. They're
often cartoon shows or other you know, and often you
couldn't tell the commercial from the show itself. Highly exploitative
of the young child who is not old enough to
(07:48):
know the pitch aimed at their innocent minds. The primary
goal of advertising and marketing is to train kids to
become consumers. Basically, the corporate world discovered children as not
(08:11):
just a viable market, but a really big market. Susan
Lynn knows all about this. She teaches psychiatry at Harvard
Medical School, and she spent her career researching the harmful
effects marketing has on kids. Marketing to children is a
factor in so many of the problems facing children today,
(08:31):
childhood obesity, eating disorders for coach, sexuality, youth violence, family stress.
Susan says children have always been marketed to through their televisions,
but before the eighties, there were federal guidelines prohibiting how
kids were targeted with ads. They were considered too young
to understand the difference between commercials and entertainment. But as
(08:54):
Raphae was reaching peak success, that all changed. The GET
administration deregulated children's television, and according to Susan, all hell
broke loose and it became fine to create a program
for the sole purpose of selling toys. So that just
changed everything. That's how we got shows like g I.
(09:17):
Joe and My Little pony half hour infomercials masquerading as
children's entertainment. Raphie had an audience of young kids, and
he couldn't stand marketing to them that way. When we
think of a young child's impressionable mind, respecting that young
child for the whole person that young children are, why
(09:41):
would anyone who cares about this young audience, who treats
them with respect, who holds them with respect for their dignity,
Why would anyone seek to exploit their innocence, their naivete
These were the beginning seeds of Ralphie would later call
child honoring, a philosophy he would fully embrace years later.
(10:06):
He felt that kids should be respected as whole human
beings and that they shouldn't be marketed to. You know,
we who want to give young children our best in
all our interactions, in all our capacities, are relationships with them.
Our job is to do that with respect. It's just
(10:27):
that simple. You would no longer exploit your own children
from monetary gain than you what somebody else's. Isn't that right?
In essence, the childhood years should be full of creativity
and exploration. Ralphie would later go on to author a
book about this philosophy. It included a chapter written by Susan.
(10:47):
This is gonna sound simplistic, but I believe the children
are people, and they're not teeny tiny adults and little bodies.
Their minds are growing and developing. They're deserving of dignity,
and they're deserving of kindness. They're deserving of opportunities for
self expression. And Raphi shares those beliefs, and consumerism ran
(11:12):
head on into those beliefs. Children are inundated, Our lives
are intundated with commercials. We know that. But to try
and take the most basic steps to minimize that exposure
to commercial brands is a good thing. And we can
all do it, especially those of us who are successful. Right,
(11:33):
especially us, we're making enough money. If we don't say no,
who will? I mean, really, all of us should. We
shouldn't be in it for to to earn an income
via exploitation. That is not okay, But soon Ralphie would
(11:56):
have to put his philosophy to work. Before him, children's
music wasn't really seen as its own distinct genre. Ralphie
felt like kids weren't taken seriously, and what passed for
children's entertainment was just a bunch of noise. Children's entertainment
(12:18):
in some circles used to be viewed as a magician
who put on a magic show. And he would say,
I'm going to count to three and you're gonna say
aberca dabra, And he'd go one to three and then
people go abricadabra. He'd say louder, and then they'd say
louder louder. Kind of said to myself, what the heck
is that? I'm not doing that? You know? So, if
(12:39):
I'm not doing that, what am I doing? Okay? I'm
singing songs? Which songs? Am I singing songs that children
can make their own that they can join me in?
Ralphie stood out. His success put a spotlight on his
young audience, new listeners who were hungry for good music,
and advertisers were paying attention. As Ralphie's fame grew, he
(13:03):
held fast onto his values, even if there was a cost. Sure,
I knew I was probably saying goodbye to millions of
dollars of potential revenue, but so what, That's not what
my music makings about. Rafie had a big Hollywood moment.
(13:43):
His song Raining Like Magic was featured in the movie
fern Gully, The Last Rainforest. It was an animated film
starring Tim Curry and Robin Williams. The story is about
a fairy who tries to save a rainforest from laggers.
It was Raffi's first time singing in a film. The
movie spoke to Raffie. He thought anyone who saw the
(14:07):
film would demand that rainforests be protected. It was a
cause he'd grow to care about deeply. It felt like
a no brainer. A few years later, Raffie says he
got another call from Hollywood. This time the offer was
more complicated. Dream Works, the powerhouse known for Shrek and
(14:29):
Kung Fu Panda, had an idea. They wanted to make
an animated movie about Baby Beluga, raff He's hit song.
It was the kind of deal that would splash Raffie's
beloved whale on screens all over the world. It had
the potential to turn him into an international star and
make Raffie crazy rich. We asked two questions. Would the
(14:58):
film be directly advertised two kids via fast food outlets
in every other form of direct advertising? Well, the answer
was yes. And would would there be a whole host
of cheap plastic made characters from the show sold probably
through fast food outlets. Again, yes, well, that's all we
(15:20):
needed to hear. Turning down an offer of a Baby
Bluegot film from the makers of Shrek was easy. It
took no time. But you said yes to the Fern
Gully movie. How are those different? Well, only my song
Reigning like Magic is in the Fern Gully movie. That's
(15:43):
what I said yes to, So that's understandable. Um, the
Baby Blue movie is entirely different in that that's that
would be a film inspired by a song that I wrote.
And when I learned that the way the film would
be marketed would be exploitative of young children and their families,
(16:08):
I said no. Trying to understand what it means, um
for you to exploit your audience for commercial gain, Like,
what where is the line I don't do it for you?
I don't. I don't do it. You don't do it never?
How can you even ask that? Of course, I don't,
I don't. I've never done it. I wasn't accusing you
of it at all. Ever, you know, No, No, I don't,
I don't do it. I've never done it. I don't.
(16:31):
That's not what I'm about. I can't and I will
not participate in ventures that would do that. But you
felt comfortable with providing a song to friend Gully that
was okay, Well, yeah, why wouldn't it be, well you
you wrote a great song for it. But and at
the same time it was fern Gully was marketed directly
(16:54):
to kids and had a pizza hut meal. Um, you know,
no not. I wasn't aware of any of that at
the time. In fact, if you look at what year
it was, I think you know that there wasn't even
a conversation. So you know, if my understanding these things
(17:16):
grew along the decades, then good for me. But no, no,
those things weren't even discussed at the time. At the time,
I was happy to be contributing a song to a
film that was, you know, looking at the devastation of
um forest ecologies and so on, and and if indeed
(17:42):
it was marketed in ways that were not what I
would choose, I'm sorry about that. But I wasn't even
aware of some of that at the time. Maybe it's
hard to look back and have to dissect why you
made the decisions you did, And I get it. I'm
(18:04):
an entertainer. It's impossible to understand the ripple effects of
every decision you make, and yet every decision you make
is scrutinized by the public. But to the people around Raffie,
he did live what he preached. Michael Kreeber is a
(18:25):
musician and composer and a longtime collaborator with Raffie. To
you can say, it's integrity, you know, his message, what
he believes in is what he does, and that's the
best word for it. I can I can find he
has integrity and he comes from a profound caring, you know,
for kids and for the planet and the issues that
(18:49):
are close to his heart. Psychologists Susan Lynn was also
paying attention to Raffie's decisions. Taking a stand against commercialism
was actually it might have been in the best interests
of his soul, but it wasn't in the best interest
of his pocketbook. That's impressive to me. You know, he
(19:10):
could have made a lot more money if he had,
you know, done the Baby Bluga movie and commercialized it.
There aren't a lot of artists who have done that.
Raphie was trying to change the world by turning down
one movie or endorsement deal at a time. But it
was kind of like David against Goliath because the advertising
(19:31):
industry was busy teaching kids how to nag their parents
more effectively. It's called pastor power. They found that it
was helpful if kids had reasons why they wanted something,
like one example they use is g Mom, I really
want Barbie's dream house because Barbie and Ken want to
get married and raise the family. And then they identified
(19:55):
persistence nagging, which is gimme, gimme, gimme, gim to give me.
And one of an organization that worked around consumption did
a study and found that there were ten and eleven
year old kids who are nagging fifty times for one thing,
and nagging is exhausting. All your parents listening right now,
(20:18):
you know exactly what Susan is talking about. And Susan says,
nagging effects how kids develop, undermining their critical thinking and
emotional stability. Starting a baby off when their brains are
just beginning to make connections, and when we know that
habits and behaviors can be formed in early childhood, and
(20:40):
to start them off, turning to screens for stimulation and
for soothing instead of learning how to self soothe or
to turn to other people or or the the outside
world for a stimulation and for soothing. That works very
well for the corporation, the toy industry, the media industry,
(21:03):
and today the tech industry, but not so well for
for babies and young children. It's the opposite of Raffi song,
Thanks a lot, Thanks so long, Thanks for the sun
and sky. That's a celebration of nature and the world
(21:24):
around us. It's about gratitude and wonderment. But Susan says,
advertising not only interrupts children's development, but it also takes
advantage of our human flaws, and marketers count on selfishness.
They count on me first, they count on taking care
of yourself, and then they count on being able to
(21:46):
convince people that they need whatever product in order to
take care of themselves. Altruism is not part of commercial culture. Thanks,
thanks for them night, Thanks a lot, Thanks for the stars.
(22:10):
So what you're presenting when you present music or art
to any audience is about the art. It's about the
music and it's not to be confused or muddied by
something else that you have no business associating with. It
(22:32):
right for any audience of any age, especially for young children,
because they're learning about how the world works, how the
adults in their lives are conducting themselves. Thanks for the
people everywhere, Thanks a lot, Thanks for all and for
(23:18):
One of Raffie's most beloved events was the International Children's
Festival in Vancouver. It's the longest running kids arts festival
in the world. At its height, nine children and their
parents gathered for music, theater, and puppetry that highlighted kids
creativity and exploration, and for years, Raffie was the headliner
(23:40):
of the event. They used to keep increasing the size
of the tent that I would perform in the Raffi Tent,
as they called it, because of the demand for shows.
It was just amazing. I would do like eight shows
in one week or ten sometimes. But all that changed
in two thousands. Out of the blue, suddenly I was
(24:02):
informed that oh yeah, uh, a car company was gonna
have its cars on the lock of the festival. I thought,
what the heck is this? I pulled out so fast.
I was really stunned and shocked, and well, I felt hurt.
I felt personally hurt that they do this. He didn't
(24:27):
want anything to do with that, so he wanted the
music to speak for yourself and the messages to come
through on their own without you know, commercialism attached to it.
Musician Michael Creeper says he never saw Raffie waver from
his beliefs, and together they played some impressive gigs like
Broadway and Radio City Music Hall. Yeah, Broadway, it was
(24:47):
a big deal. That was thrilling. And to play all
that beautiful music with these kids. He had a great choir,
and the choir was assembled from the children of all
these luminaries around New York like people he contacted. Everybody
is super friendly. This was a pretty heavy time. They
teamed up with Phil Ramone, a legendary producer who'd work
(25:09):
with Billy Joel, Paul Simon, and Elton John. But even
with all the attention the Hollywood stars, the media, spotlight,
and the pressures that come with it, Michael says, Rafie
was never tempted to commercialize his music. He's shown that
there's a respectful way to treat that audience. That's really
the key word, you know, It's a respectful way. We're
(25:31):
not trying to take advantage you to make them buy stuff.
He's a man of principle that to me is a
very high principle. And when he talked about it. He's
very passionate about it, and he says, you know, I
just reaching not believed marketing two kids. It's not gonna
happen with my stuff because it's you know, it's not fair.
They're they're too vulnerable that they were exposed to millions
(25:53):
of images as we know of day and night, day
and night, most of it very shallow and commercial. It's
people are selling you stuff, right, so why why give
them more um and call it something to do with Rappi.
He didn't want anything to do with that. Michael admits
that walking away from lucrative gigs, and especially ones that
really mean something to you is not so simple. Of course,
(26:16):
it's hard, and I think the entertainment energy is gigantic.
You know, if people are going to offer you money
to endorse their product, or they're going to say we'll
put on a big concert, it's just that our logal
will be there. It makes it harder, right, for sure,
it's harder. But maybe this is where Ralph he had
an advantage. Michael says Rafi had built a loyal following
(26:37):
before powerful advertisers came calling, and he gambled that his
fans would show up at his concerts and buy his albums,
even if he didn't commercialize his name. No, I don't
know if those traces were easy for him, but he
would know that I can sell records from their merit.
I can do concerts because I'm a great entertainer. They
(26:57):
will come, you know. So I think he knew that
and therefore was able to resist some of the commercialism.
I understood that I had to protect this music. I
did what I needed to do to protect the artistic integrity,
which basically meant that I was going to be in
(27:18):
charge of how that album got sold and how it
got advertised. It would never be advertised to kids, and
it never was. As the promo posted that I designed
said a delightful new children's recording. That's all that's said
in the front cover. All I Really Need is a
(27:41):
song in my heart. If you listen to enough of
Raffie's music, you start to hear the messages the seeds
Raffi was planting. Take Raffi song All I Really Need
(28:01):
creen were drinking. Ralphie wrote it at a time when
he had the big house in the flush bank account,
a time when he was feeling uneasy with the pressure
to make money off his audience by serving them up
to advertisers. This was Ralphie's protest song, his way of
(28:30):
pushing back against greed and commercialism. As Michael Creeper says,
Ralphie's music is sort of like an onion. Peel back
each layer and you find deeper meaning. The song sounds simple,
but the message is pretty um. They're very universal messages
and they're they're actually very profound messages when you think
about it. All I really need is well, what is it?
(28:53):
You know? Okay, well I need to eat and I
need I needed love. Kind of a paragon of integrity
to do what he does, because if you slip up
and it's sort of, well, probs, just another commercial guy,
but he's not. He cares about what he's talking about,
what he's thinking about. Not everybody that has that kind
of guts to do it. It's quite a bit of
(29:14):
weight in your shoulders. You know. All of this is
just an expression of love, respectful love. That's all it is,
respectful love and action. We can all do it. Raphie's
refusal to market two Kids was his first big awakening,
but what came next would make him stop performing altogether.
(29:56):
Next time. On Finding Raffie, we did our first program
for television on global warming. I realized that global warming,
we called it then, was a real threat. I called
it in my script a slow motion catastrophe. I knew
(30:16):
that we had to get going on it immediately. And
we heard about this meeting and thought, wow, you know
there's going to be all of these old men sitting
around talking about our future. Somebody should be there to
represent what's truly at stake. Finding Raffie is a production
(30:50):
in My Heart Radio and Fatherly, in partnership with Rococo Punch.
It's produced by Katherine Finalosa, Meredith Hannig, and James Trout.
Productionists since from Charlotte Livingston. Alex French is our story consultant.
Our senior producer is Andrea swahe Emily Foreman is our editor.
Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Raphae's music is courtesy
(31:13):
of Troubadour Music Special thanks to Kim Layton at Troubadour.
Our executive producers are Jessica Albert and John Parotti at
Rococo Punch, Ty Trimble, Mike Rothman and Jeff Eisenman at
Fatherly and Me Chris Garcia, thank you for listening.
There, hey, thank you, thank you very much. Would you
wonderful singers all take a deep breath in with me
like this and let it out the year's night. Ronald
Reagan is president. Shows like Miami, Vice and Lifestyles of
the Rich and Famous debut, We devour self help books
(00:29):
and play Madonna's material Girl on a loop once again.
Let's all take a deep breath in together and quiet.
That's the eighties are overflowing with extravagance and excess power suits,
mcmansion's and Wall Street brokers, with slick back hair and
(00:50):
cell phones the size of a dictionary. I want you
to sit back in your chairs for this next song,
and all of you close your eyes and you can
just hear my voice singing this song for you. I'll
wait till all of you are ready. And Raffie, he's
(01:11):
in his thirties. He's become the sought after children's musician
Thanks so Long. His first three albums were huge hits.
He has a national distribution deal his own record label,
and he's packing out concert halls thanks for the clouds.
So he's making real money. He buys a comfortable house
(01:36):
with a big yard for his dog bundles fancy restaurants
and fine wine become part of his daily life. Raffie
has it all. Thanks so Lord, ands for all, Thanks
(01:56):
for all come. So why does he feel like something's missing?
I'm Chris Garcia and this is Finding Raffie, a ten
(02:18):
part series from My Heart Radio and Fatherly in partnership
with Rococo Punch about the life, philosophy, and the work
of Raffie, the man behind the music. I was brought
to a place of wonderment. I mean I had everything
I've ever wanted in life, including being married to the
(02:39):
the cheerleader from Arrival High School. I had a successful
career now. Ralphie wrote Thanks a Lot in ninety at
a time when he and his wife deb were literally
living the dream. And listening to the song, you can
hear so many emotions. Rafie is reflective and vulnerable, maybe
(03:03):
even a little sad. I didn't want to just keep
doing more of the same, because I'm not that kind
of person. I'm not a well, let's do more of
the same now. I'm not like that. I'm a person
who grows with experience and then wonders what's next. So
I remember in meditation, praying to the divine saying, You've
given me everything I've ever wanted. What can I do
(03:25):
for you? How might I proceed in a way that
feels like service? I remember that moment and then, as
if in an answer, I was guided towards writing a
little song about a wee white whale on the goal
and all the goodness that came from that song and
(03:49):
that album, And I still listen to that album on
occasion I'm blown away, how beautiful. I'd like to sing,
Davy bluego with you, hump bam ba ba ba ba
ba ba baaa, Baby Baluga in the deep blue sea,
(04:11):
you swim so wild, and you swim so free heaven
above and see below, and a little white whale along
the gold, Baby Blue got Oh, Baby Baluga is the water.
Baby Belugat was an overnight sensation. It's still one of
(04:34):
Raphae's most famous songs. He wrote it as a tribute
to Cavna, a beluga whale he'd seen at the Vancouver
Public Aquarium. I remember doing a my first cross Canada
promotion tour of an album. Was was for Baby Blue Gut.
I remember being in Edmonton, Alberta uh and I had
(04:54):
eight interviews and one day that was whoa. That was
a lot. So I have sensed that there was something special,
but you couldn't know until the years passed how big
it was going to be. You couldn't imagine. Then you
curl up, snug in your water, b the moon is shine.
That song fast forwarded Raffie stardom. It connected with parents
(05:16):
and their kids, an audience who was craving really good music.
Suddenly everyone wanted a piece of Raffie, and advertisers wanted
a piece of his fans and a little white way
along the gold. You're just a little white way along
the gold. Ralphie says. He was asked to play some
(05:43):
famous venues, places like Madison Square Garden. It was a
sign he'd hit the big time. But rather than join
the likes of Bruce Springsteen and the Rolling Stones, Ralphie
said no because the audience would be full of very
very young children in a very huge environment, not the
(06:03):
best environment for them, let alone me as a performer
trying to reach them. Rapie couldn't stomach the fact that
his face would be projected on massive screens just so
kids sitting in the nosebleeds could catch a glimpse of him. Well,
I'm talking about a musical performance in a hockey rink
(06:24):
in front of twenty people. Come on, I guess who
was like, it's not my idea of a good time. Yeah,
especially I feel like with a crowd that young, it
might be it might be difficult for everyone. That's exactly.
And Chris, it's not even a concert hall. I don't
even have a good acoustics. Come on, you know everything
about it would be a challenge. Why would I throw
(06:45):
myself into that? To me, my music for children and
families has always been about the music, about the feelings,
qualities and the songs that play in the minds and
hearts of the very young. Raphie always put his fans first,
(07:06):
and as his audience grew, he found that he needed
to protect them even more. This is the rugged New
g I Joe Adventure Team, Dane Joy Danger, Hide the
Way Out. Here comes a Mathematics the Car with a Brain.
Now make a much night? No. I remember they used
(07:27):
to be television shows on Saturday morning for kids. They're
often cartoon shows or other you know, and often you
couldn't tell the commercial from the show itself. Highly exploitative
of the young child who is not old enough to
(07:48):
know the pitch aimed at their innocent minds. The primary
goal of advertising and marketing is to train kids to
become consumers. Basically, the corporate world discovered children as not
(08:11):
just a viable market, but a really big market. Susan
Lynn knows all about this. She teaches psychiatry at Harvard
Medical School, and she spent her career researching the harmful
effects marketing has on kids. Marketing to children is a
factor in so many of the problems facing children today,
(08:31):
childhood obesity, eating disorders for coach, sexuality, youth violence, family stress.
Susan says children have always been marketed to through their televisions,
but before the eighties, there were federal guidelines prohibiting how
kids were targeted with ads. They were considered too young
to understand the difference between commercials and entertainment. But as
(08:54):
Raphae was reaching peak success, that all changed. The GET
administration deregulated children's television, and according to Susan, all hell
broke loose and it became fine to create a program
for the sole purpose of selling toys. So that just
changed everything. That's how we got shows like g I.
(09:17):
Joe and My Little pony half hour infomercials masquerading as
children's entertainment. Raphie had an audience of young kids, and
he couldn't stand marketing to them that way. When we
think of a young child's impressionable mind, respecting that young
child for the whole person that young children are, why
(09:41):
would anyone who cares about this young audience, who treats
them with respect, who holds them with respect for their dignity,
Why would anyone seek to exploit their innocence, their naivete
These were the beginning seeds of Ralphie would later call
child honoring, a philosophy he would fully embrace years later.
(10:06):
He felt that kids should be respected as whole human
beings and that they shouldn't be marketed to. You know,
we who want to give young children our best in
all our interactions, in all our capacities, are relationships with them.
Our job is to do that with respect. It's just
(10:27):
that simple. You would no longer exploit your own children
from monetary gain than you what somebody else's. Isn't that right?
In essence, the childhood years should be full of creativity
and exploration. Ralphie would later go on to author a
book about this philosophy. It included a chapter written by Susan.
(10:47):
This is gonna sound simplistic, but I believe the children
are people, and they're not teeny tiny adults and little bodies.
Their minds are growing and developing. They're deserving of dignity,
and they're deserving of kindness. They're deserving of opportunities for
self expression. And Raphi shares those beliefs, and consumerism ran
(11:12):
head on into those beliefs. Children are inundated, Our lives
are intundated with commercials. We know that. But to try
and take the most basic steps to minimize that exposure
to commercial brands is a good thing. And we can
all do it, especially those of us who are successful. Right,
(11:33):
especially us, we're making enough money. If we don't say no,
who will? I mean, really, all of us should. We
shouldn't be in it for to to earn an income
via exploitation. That is not okay, But soon Ralphie would
(11:56):
have to put his philosophy to work. Before him, children's
music wasn't really seen as its own distinct genre. Ralphie
felt like kids weren't taken seriously, and what passed for
children's entertainment was just a bunch of noise. Children's entertainment
(12:18):
in some circles used to be viewed as a magician
who put on a magic show. And he would say,
I'm going to count to three and you're gonna say
aberca dabra, And he'd go one to three and then
people go abricadabra. He'd say louder, and then they'd say
louder louder. Kind of said to myself, what the heck
is that? I'm not doing that? You know? So, if
(12:39):
I'm not doing that, what am I doing? Okay? I'm
singing songs? Which songs? Am I singing songs that children
can make their own that they can join me in?
Ralphie stood out. His success put a spotlight on his
young audience, new listeners who were hungry for good music,
and advertisers were paying attention. As Ralphie's fame grew, he
(13:03):
held fast onto his values, even if there was a cost. Sure,
I knew I was probably saying goodbye to millions of
dollars of potential revenue, but so what, That's not what
my music makings about. Rafie had a big Hollywood moment.
(13:43):
His song Raining Like Magic was featured in the movie
fern Gully, The Last Rainforest. It was an animated film
starring Tim Curry and Robin Williams. The story is about
a fairy who tries to save a rainforest from laggers.
It was Raffi's first time singing in a film. The
movie spoke to Raffie. He thought anyone who saw the
(14:07):
film would demand that rainforests be protected. It was a
cause he'd grow to care about deeply. It felt like
a no brainer. A few years later, Raffie says he
got another call from Hollywood. This time the offer was
more complicated. Dream Works, the powerhouse known for Shrek and
(14:29):
Kung Fu Panda, had an idea. They wanted to make
an animated movie about Baby Beluga, raff He's hit song.
It was the kind of deal that would splash Raffie's
beloved whale on screens all over the world. It had
the potential to turn him into an international star and
make Raffie crazy rich. We asked two questions. Would the
(14:58):
film be directly advertised two kids via fast food outlets
in every other form of direct advertising? Well, the answer
was yes. And would would there be a whole host
of cheap plastic made characters from the show sold probably
through fast food outlets. Again, yes, well, that's all we
(15:20):
needed to hear. Turning down an offer of a Baby
Bluegot film from the makers of Shrek was easy. It
took no time. But you said yes to the Fern
Gully movie. How are those different? Well, only my song
Reigning like Magic is in the Fern Gully movie. That's
(15:43):
what I said yes to, So that's understandable. Um, the
Baby Blue movie is entirely different in that that's that
would be a film inspired by a song that I wrote.
And when I learned that the way the film would
be marketed would be exploitative of young children and their families,
(16:08):
I said no. Trying to understand what it means, um
for you to exploit your audience for commercial gain, Like,
what where is the line I don't do it for you?
I don't. I don't do it. You don't do it never?
How can you even ask that? Of course, I don't,
I don't. I've never done it. I wasn't accusing you
of it at all. Ever, you know, No, No, I don't,
I don't do it. I've never done it. I don't.
(16:31):
That's not what I'm about. I can't and I will
not participate in ventures that would do that. But you
felt comfortable with providing a song to friend Gully that
was okay, Well, yeah, why wouldn't it be, well you
you wrote a great song for it. But and at
the same time it was fern Gully was marketed directly
(16:54):
to kids and had a pizza hut meal. Um, you know,
no not. I wasn't aware of any of that at
the time. In fact, if you look at what year
it was, I think you know that there wasn't even
a conversation. So you know, if my understanding these things
(17:16):
grew along the decades, then good for me. But no, no,
those things weren't even discussed at the time. At the time,
I was happy to be contributing a song to a
film that was, you know, looking at the devastation of
um forest ecologies and so on, and and if indeed
(17:42):
it was marketed in ways that were not what I
would choose, I'm sorry about that. But I wasn't even
aware of some of that at the time. Maybe it's
hard to look back and have to dissect why you
made the decisions you did, And I get it. I'm
(18:04):
an entertainer. It's impossible to understand the ripple effects of
every decision you make, and yet every decision you make
is scrutinized by the public. But to the people around Raffie,
he did live what he preached. Michael Kreeber is a
(18:25):
musician and composer and a longtime collaborator with Raffie. To
you can say, it's integrity, you know, his message, what
he believes in is what he does, and that's the
best word for it. I can I can find he
has integrity and he comes from a profound caring, you know,
for kids and for the planet and the issues that
(18:49):
are close to his heart. Psychologists Susan Lynn was also
paying attention to Raffie's decisions. Taking a stand against commercialism
was actually it might have been in the best interests
of his soul, but it wasn't in the best interest
of his pocketbook. That's impressive to me. You know, he
(19:10):
could have made a lot more money if he had,
you know, done the Baby Bluga movie and commercialized it.
There aren't a lot of artists who have done that.
Raphie was trying to change the world by turning down
one movie or endorsement deal at a time. But it
was kind of like David against Goliath because the advertising
(19:31):
industry was busy teaching kids how to nag their parents
more effectively. It's called pastor power. They found that it
was helpful if kids had reasons why they wanted something,
like one example they use is g Mom, I really
want Barbie's dream house because Barbie and Ken want to
get married and raise the family. And then they identified
(19:55):
persistence nagging, which is gimme, gimme, gimme, gim to give me.
And one of an organization that worked around consumption did
a study and found that there were ten and eleven
year old kids who are nagging fifty times for one thing,
and nagging is exhausting. All your parents listening right now,
(20:18):
you know exactly what Susan is talking about. And Susan says,
nagging effects how kids develop, undermining their critical thinking and
emotional stability. Starting a baby off when their brains are
just beginning to make connections, and when we know that
habits and behaviors can be formed in early childhood, and
(20:40):
to start them off, turning to screens for stimulation and
for soothing instead of learning how to self soothe or
to turn to other people or or the the outside
world for a stimulation and for soothing. That works very
well for the corporation, the toy industry, the media industry,
(21:03):
and today the tech industry, but not so well for
for babies and young children. It's the opposite of Raffi song,
Thanks a lot, Thanks so long, Thanks for the sun
and sky. That's a celebration of nature and the world
(21:24):
around us. It's about gratitude and wonderment. But Susan says,
advertising not only interrupts children's development, but it also takes
advantage of our human flaws, and marketers count on selfishness.
They count on me first, they count on taking care
of yourself, and then they count on being able to
(21:46):
convince people that they need whatever product in order to
take care of themselves. Altruism is not part of commercial culture. Thanks,
thanks for them night, Thanks a lot, Thanks for the stars.
(22:10):
So what you're presenting when you present music or art
to any audience is about the art. It's about the
music and it's not to be confused or muddied by
something else that you have no business associating with. It
(22:32):
right for any audience of any age, especially for young children,
because they're learning about how the world works, how the
adults in their lives are conducting themselves. Thanks for the
people everywhere, Thanks a lot, Thanks for all and for
(23:18):
One of Raffie's most beloved events was the International Children's
Festival in Vancouver. It's the longest running kids arts festival
in the world. At its height, nine children and their
parents gathered for music, theater, and puppetry that highlighted kids
creativity and exploration, and for years, Raffie was the headliner
(23:40):
of the event. They used to keep increasing the size
of the tent that I would perform in the Raffi Tent,
as they called it, because of the demand for shows.
It was just amazing. I would do like eight shows
in one week or ten sometimes. But all that changed
in two thousands. Out of the blue, suddenly I was
(24:02):
informed that oh yeah, uh, a car company was gonna
have its cars on the lock of the festival. I thought,
what the heck is this? I pulled out so fast.
I was really stunned and shocked, and well, I felt hurt.
I felt personally hurt that they do this. He didn't
(24:27):
want anything to do with that, so he wanted the
music to speak for yourself and the messages to come
through on their own without you know, commercialism attached to it.
Musician Michael Creeper says he never saw Raffie waver from
his beliefs, and together they played some impressive gigs like
Broadway and Radio City Music Hall. Yeah, Broadway, it was
(24:47):
a big deal. That was thrilling. And to play all
that beautiful music with these kids. He had a great choir,
and the choir was assembled from the children of all
these luminaries around New York like people he contacted. Everybody
is super friendly. This was a pretty heavy time. They
teamed up with Phil Ramone, a legendary producer who'd work
(25:09):
with Billy Joel, Paul Simon, and Elton John. But even
with all the attention the Hollywood stars, the media, spotlight,
and the pressures that come with it, Michael says, Rafie
was never tempted to commercialize his music. He's shown that
there's a respectful way to treat that audience. That's really
the key word, you know, It's a respectful way. We're
(25:31):
not trying to take advantage you to make them buy stuff.
He's a man of principle that to me is a
very high principle. And when he talked about it. He's
very passionate about it, and he says, you know, I
just reaching not believed marketing two kids. It's not gonna
happen with my stuff because it's you know, it's not fair.
They're they're too vulnerable that they were exposed to millions
(25:53):
of images as we know of day and night, day
and night, most of it very shallow and commercial. It's
people are selling you stuff, right, so why why give
them more um and call it something to do with Rappi.
He didn't want anything to do with that. Michael admits
that walking away from lucrative gigs, and especially ones that
really mean something to you is not so simple. Of course,
(26:16):
it's hard, and I think the entertainment energy is gigantic.
You know, if people are going to offer you money
to endorse their product, or they're going to say we'll
put on a big concert, it's just that our logal
will be there. It makes it harder, right, for sure,
it's harder. But maybe this is where Ralph he had
an advantage. Michael says Rafi had built a loyal following
(26:37):
before powerful advertisers came calling, and he gambled that his
fans would show up at his concerts and buy his albums,
even if he didn't commercialize his name. No, I don't
know if those traces were easy for him, but he
would know that I can sell records from their merit.
I can do concerts because I'm a great entertainer. They
(26:57):
will come, you know. So I think he knew that
and therefore was able to resist some of the commercialism.
I understood that I had to protect this music. I
did what I needed to do to protect the artistic integrity,
which basically meant that I was going to be in
(27:18):
charge of how that album got sold and how it
got advertised. It would never be advertised to kids, and
it never was. As the promo posted that I designed
said a delightful new children's recording. That's all that's said
in the front cover. All I Really Need is a
(27:41):
song in my heart. If you listen to enough of
Raffie's music, you start to hear the messages the seeds
Raffi was planting. Take Raffi song All I Really Need
(28:01):
creen were drinking. Ralphie wrote it at a time when
he had the big house in the flush bank account,
a time when he was feeling uneasy with the pressure
to make money off his audience by serving them up
to advertisers. This was Ralphie's protest song, his way of
(28:30):
pushing back against greed and commercialism. As Michael Creeper says,
Ralphie's music is sort of like an onion. Peel back
each layer and you find deeper meaning. The song sounds simple,
but the message is pretty um. They're very universal messages
and they're they're actually very profound messages when you think
about it. All I really need is well, what is it?
(28:53):
You know? Okay, well I need to eat and I
need I needed love. Kind of a paragon of integrity
to do what he does, because if you slip up
and it's sort of, well, probs, just another commercial guy,
but he's not. He cares about what he's talking about,
what he's thinking about. Not everybody that has that kind
of guts to do it. It's quite a bit of
(29:14):
weight in your shoulders. You know. All of this is
just an expression of love, respectful love. That's all it is,
respectful love and action. We can all do it. Raphie's
refusal to market two Kids was his first big awakening,
but what came next would make him stop performing altogether.
(29:56):
Next time. On Finding Raffie, we did our first program
for television on global warming. I realized that global warming,
we called it then, was a real threat. I called
it in my script a slow motion catastrophe. I knew
(30:16):
that we had to get going on it immediately. And
we heard about this meeting and thought, wow, you know
there's going to be all of these old men sitting
around talking about our future. Somebody should be there to
represent what's truly at stake. Finding Raffie is a production
(30:50):
in My Heart Radio and Fatherly, in partnership with Rococo Punch.
It's produced by Katherine Finalosa, Meredith Hannig, and James Trout.
Productionists since from Charlotte Livingston. Alex French is our story consultant.
Our senior producer is Andrea swahe Emily Foreman is our editor.
Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. Raphae's music is courtesy
(31:13):
of Troubadour Music Special thanks to Kim Layton at Troubadour.
Our executive producers are Jessica Albert and John Parotti at
Rococo Punch, Ty Trimble, Mike Rothman and Jeff Eisenman at
Fatherly and Me Chris Garcia, thank you for listening.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.