July 10, 2025 • 28 mins
Reggie's time as a sports editor at the Grambling student newspaper suggested he had it all in front of him. He was a gifted rider with a ton of talent and street smarts. But after a violent encounter at the school, Reggie got on a bus, which was a two-day ride home, and something in his head snapped.
When he got to Oakland, his family met him at the bus station. And the person who walked off the bus left them stunned.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
In the fall of nineteen ninety seven, Janeene Jefferson scored
a pair of tickets to watch the NBA's Golden State
Warriors play a home game at nearby Oakland Arena. She
invited her big brother, Reggie Payne to tag along. Reggie
was back in OpenD after having abruptly left Grambling State University,
and his mood had been pretty.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Sour and his mental health cratering.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Perhaps it was the naive hope of a concerned sister,
but Janeen thought the game might just maybe lift his spirits.
This was two decades before the Warriors would add future
Hall of Famer Steph Curry and launch into the franchise's
golden era. At the time, they were bottom of the
league junk pile that would wind up finishing nineteen and
(00:48):
sixty three. But even if he would be rooting on
a roster of forgettable non legends like a Donal Foyle
and Jeff Grayer, for Reggie sports was everything did harmlessly enough.
The crowd was into it. The trials Spreewell, one of
Golden seats few standouts, was putting up numbers and the
rhythms of the game served as a soothing soundtrack for Reggie.
(01:11):
But then, just as he was easing into the actions
before him, something snapped, and snapped hard. Reggie began yelling
at the players at the bench, at the coaches, at
the refs. His shouts grew in intensity, amplifying past the
usual fan heckling.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
They turned louder and darker and meaner.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So he was so charged up at the Warriors game
he was like, you'll fucking.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
This just going off streaming at the players.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
At the players, of course, like you yell at the
players at the game, but the bipolar it intensified at times.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Ten those sitting nearby inside the arena began to notice.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Then security. Finally Janine had to pull Reggie out of
the building. We had to leave.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
This was Reggie's new life. One moment we're all good,
the next we might be heading to jail. A new,
unrecognizable darkness was rising in him, and it were to
only get worse. This is Finding Sexy Sweat, a podcast
where me, Jeff Pearlman, and my colleague Rick Jervis attempt
(02:23):
to retrace the life of our longtime friend and fellow
journalist Reggie Payne.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Better known by his rap name sexy sweat to.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Try and learn how our life paths differed so sharply
and why Reggie met such an untimely death after being
handcuffed on the living room floor of his parents' home
in Sacramento. This is episode four Homecoming. If you've been
following this podcast, you know that we've traced Reggie's steps
(02:53):
from his upbringing in Oakland housing projects, through his glaring
optimism and hope in high school and later at Grambling
State University, to the realization that he was going to
be a father of twenty two.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
And this is when the Reggie we knew as a
fellow journalism intern and doormay at Tennessee State University, the
one who bounded around with optimism and swagger, the aspiring rapper,
this is when he starts to be replaced by something
much darker.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
And the crazy thing is, we don't one hundred percent
know what set it off. It's impossible to say for sure.
Ask his family members, and they point to the time
a group of Grambling football players allegedly jumped him at
a party on campus. Rick and I had trouble corroborating
that story, but his family firmly believed Reggie's account of it.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
That's when his behavior shifted drastically. Even two thousand miles away,
family members sensed Reggie's unraveling. His phone calls home, once
a source of delight for his parents and sisters, became
increasingly moro's nonsensical. He complained about people crawling on his
roof or breaking into the Traylor where he lived off campus.
(04:02):
He claimed that someone had come into his trailer, opened
a bag of potato chips, and then resealed it. His
words were panicky, breathless. His sister Crystal recalled his erratic
behavior when we met with the family in their Sacramento home.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
He had started calling, but he'd be like, Crystal, where's Mama,
And I'm like, she's not here. He's like, tell I
think somebody came on my trailer.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
The phone calls came repeatedly, hour after hour, day after day,
so like.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Over the course of maybe not even two weeks, he
would call like Crystal, Mama, like no, she not hear this.
He's like all right, and then he a call right
like look about this one. I'm like, dude, why did
you keep calling? And it'll be like something else, like
I think some about it was on my trailer roof,
like like I'm matching the stuff. Like I'll have Mama
call when you get back.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
After the barrage of panic's phone calls, his family had
heard enough, especially Reggie's mom Harriet.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
Like, Reggie, you need to get your behind home. You
come home now.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Reggie first tried going to the apartment of his girlfriend, Tia,
but she was eagerly put off by his behavior and
was busy caring for their son, Lil Reg who is
then three. She refused to let him into her apartment.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Ultimately, Reggie followed his mother's advice, packed his stuff and
booked a one way Greyhound bus ticket to Oakland, the
Grambling State campus, once radiating with friendships and promise, had
turned into sneering shadows. Reggie was thinking about the football
team incident as he climbed on the bus that day.
Here's what he said in his memoir.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
The days after my jumping, I was isolated, embarrassed, and lonely,
which to this day I think played with my psyche.
Getting jumped or crowded as they say Louisiana on a
black campus. Dude, what did people think of me? What
could I do? Get a gun and shoot up the
(06:02):
football door. No, that wouldn't be a wise decision. I
didn't know what to expect next. I must say this
somewhere close to Dallas, Texas, the satin, the rear of
the greyhound. I felt my head snap.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
In the last episode we described where Reggie said happened
on that greyhound bus, he literally felt his mind snap.
While working on this podcast, I've thought about that a
decent amount.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You're at an age where you.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Think everything is going to go great and your life
is ahead of you. And here's Reggie and one second
he's a new father and he has all these dreams
of becoming a sports writer, and you know, the next minute,
he's on a greyhound bus. His brain feels like it's imploding.
He doesn't know what's going on with his kid, he
doesn't know what's going out with Tea, and everything feels
like it's collapsing. Of all the lows he went through,
(06:56):
that might be the lowest singular moment.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
I had to be such a rough spot to like being.
I've had sort of mental anxiety. I've had like anxiety attacks.
Like those things tended to happen to me later in life,
like in my thirties maybe forties, and I feel like
I guess I was better equipped to deal with them then.
I can't imagine being, you know, this twenty two to
twenty four year old kid again, with your whole life
(07:20):
in front of you, and then seeing all that collapse
because of this thing happening. It just must have been unbearable, really,
Like if you think about it, he had already been
home once. Remember he had come home, he had taken
some time off, then he came back to Grambling and
he was determined to like get his degree and live
(07:41):
out his actual dream. And then this happens, and then
this is much more significant. This is a real sort
of mental collapse at this point.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I mean, he didn't even know what was going on.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Like, so you're him, You already feel like a disappointment,
and meanwhile you have these sort of undiagnosed mental health
attacks and you know what it is. You don't know
how to deal with it. You don't know what's up,
what's down, what's left, what's right.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You feel like something's wrong with you.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You know that something's wrong with you, but you don't
have the coping tools, the medication, therapy, anything to deal
with it.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So you're just drowning and you're returning home.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Yeah, I must have been terrifying.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Reggie's time as a sports edit the Grambling Student newspaper
suggested he had it all in front of him.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
He was a gifted writer with a ton of talent
and street smarts. But now he was on a two
day bus ride home. When he got to Oakland, his
family met him at the bus station.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
And the person who walked off the bus left them stunned.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Usually, when Reggie came home on break from Grambling, it
was a cause of celebration for his family and the
Lockwood Village Projects in general. Once they threw him an
actual party, praising the local kid who was growing into a.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
But in May nineteen ninety six, the family drove downtown
to the Greyhound bus terminal and we're speechless at the
regie who stepped off the bus.
Speaker 6 (09:12):
When he got to the Greyhound bus station.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
We were like what the He was like very thin.
It was like, okay, you was calling trip and we
knew something wasn't right. But he came home he was
like a freaking skeleton.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I've had a bunch of homecomings with my kids by
now I have two kids, and you always hope that
wherever they're coming back from from camp or from college
or some trip, you always hope that they're going to,
you know, step off the plane or step off the
bus or get out of the car, and they're going
to look good and they're gonna be excited, and they're
going to have this sort of pep in their step
because they just had this adventure and they had this
thing happened in their life. And I think you you
(09:47):
kind of think when your kid is coming back from college,
it's going to be the same. And even if you
know that, you know there's it's not going great, you
shoult of hope if nothing else, your kid gets off
the bus and he's content and sound minded and at
least feeling somewhat good about himself.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And that is definitely not what they got here.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Yeah, you only want the best for all your children, right,
Like you're constantly trying to protect them. You constantly want
them to go through life in a healthy, sane way.
And here they are, you know, showing up to this
Greyhound bus station and out comes this son of yours.
You're only an oldest son, and he's just a shut
(10:30):
of himself, right, he just looks so different. It's just
a nightmare scenario for any parent.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
They obviously knew heading to the bus station that something
had been off, and they knew it hadn't been an
easy road for him, but I think seeing him there
in the flesh, it was just significantly worse than they.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
Could have imagined.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
You know one thing I think about as a parent
that I don't think people realize until they become parents.
You would always rather it be you than them. Like
once you become a parent, you would always trade places
with your kid and their misery. Like if your kid
breaks a leg and is really struggling. I'm not even
just making this up. I'm sure you've seen it too,
Like you'd rather you break your leg. My kids, you know,
there've been issues with whatever anxiety, and I'd rather that
(11:13):
be me, Like and I'm sure Reggie's parents showing up
with the bus station, they'd rather be them. Like the
last thing you want to see in the world, hands down,
as a parent, is your kids hurting in such a profound,
profound way. And the worst bird is knowing there's really
nothing you can do about it, that you are just
there and your witness to it and your witness to
your kid crumbling apart. But there's nothing you can really
(11:35):
do about it. That is the worst freaking thing in
the world. And I've experienced it, and I'm sure you've
experienced it too.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
What is it like to watch some sort of unravel? Oh,
it's it's it's very hard. It's heartbreaking, heart breaking.
Speaker 8 (11:48):
It was bad days when you can't good damn.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
But what does that what would a bad day look
like like?
Speaker 6 (11:53):
What does that mean? Set out burst? We got a
good moments? Good moment's good in the neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Like some of the younger kids who used to like
show his baseball cars to r to licrockers, so.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
He would want to run down and light fight him,
chase them.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
They like Ridge.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
It's me like they would never write him back, they would.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Never like seeing him up or nothing.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Everybody knew it wasn't the same Rede.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
According to the family, Reggie moved back into his old
room in their apartment at Lockwood Village, but he was
a physical, mental, and emotional husk of his old self.
His girlfriend, Tia was back with their son in southern California,
a seven hour drive south from Reggie's home in Oakland.
He was two classes Shy of graduating from Grambling, Reggie
(12:44):
enrolled at the College of Alameda, just a few miles
away from their apartment.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Six credits.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
That's all he needed to get that coveted diploma to
separate himself from the majority of the people growing up
in the housing project where he lived. Ambitions still flickered
inside of.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
Him, but his mind had other plans.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
People in the neighborhood quickly noticed Reggie had been the
crown prince of sixty nine Village, the superstar who elevated
himself on pure street smarts, focus and talent, destined for greatness.
And now everybody was liked, like, you know, I'd come
home as the music is this.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Time it was like having the reds, y'all like somebody.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
That's what they say in the community. It's just like,
first of all, they go, they know he's on drugs.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
This is around the time Reggie went to that disastrous
Golden State Warriors game. After that, Reggie's condition only grew worse.
A few days of normal, Reggie would be quickly followed
by erratic behavior. His family could no longer hope he'd
just snap out of it. They started considering seeking outside help.
Speaker 7 (13:54):
He would walk around.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
He would he would just walk around, like spitting on
the floor.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
That's not Reggie.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
We already knew something's not right. But we got him
here and he's gonna be okay. I'm all flattened, my
gun up. He's gonna be fine.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
You know.
Speaker 6 (14:10):
Then he's spitting on the floor. No, we have to
go somewhere. Rig you have to get some help.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Do you think he knew when he was hong when
he's spitting on the floor and all that stuff is
going on, do you think he knew something was wrong
with him?
Speaker 6 (14:26):
Like was he aware that he something was broken in him?
Speaker 9 (14:30):
I don't think he realized it, like this is not me,
you know. I think he felt like I'm still Reggie.
I'm still sexy, sweat, you know, still mean, because he
would say, I'm not crazy. Y'all'd have one crazy you
know it ain't me. So no, he didn't.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
He didn't realize that was there, like mental health wise,
sort of a low moment or an incident that you
remember where you were like this has reached a point
that is unsustainable.
Speaker 9 (15:00):
It wasn't one particular moment. He was just not himself
no more.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
How long a.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
Pretty pretty quick, like maybe a couple of weeks. I'm
on the.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Table of the hall.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
My mom sent me to the place I've always known
as a crazy house.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Reggie's referring to the John George Psychiatric Hospital, an eighty
bed impatient facility in nearby Alameda. According to its website,
John George is a quote world class patient and family
center system of care affiliated with the University of California.
Our mission here at John George Psychiatric Hospital is simple
(15:48):
but powerful, caring, healing, teaching, serving all.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
But it wasn't a place without its challenges. All sorts
of patients showed up at the hospital, many in distress
her dangerous states of mental anxiety. In nineteen ninety eight,
a year after Reggie's visit, California's Division of Occupational Safety
and Health investigated John George after fielding complaints about violent
workplace assaults, mostly patient's assaulting.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
Staff.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
Employee number one had calmed a male mental health patient
and was walking away from him when he assaulted her
from behind.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Alamna County Psychiatric Hospital Titan security Friday after a veteran
doctor was killed on the job and a patient she
had been evaluating was arrested on suspicion of murder.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Numerous other investigations and citations followed. In two thousand and three,
a patient attacked and killed one of the hospital's doctors
during an examination.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
But for his family, the hospital was an important, though
difficult step toward getting Reggie better. About a week after
the ill fated Warriors game, Harriet drove Reggie to John
George and had him admitted for inpatient treatment.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
It's unknown for us decisely what Reggie saw or felt there,
but we get a few clues from his book. He
starts chapter fifteen with the ominous line John George is
not the place to be, trust me.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
And he was diagnosed there for the first time. Yeah,
as bipowlar So we weren't able to find any records
from Reggie's time at John George, but his family told
us he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
He would go on to spend ten days at the hospital.
He was prescribed to medications navane and antipsychotic medication used
to treat the symptoms of schizophrenia, and kogentin, then primarily
prescribed with other medications to treat symptoms of Parkinson's disease.
But in this case to address movement problems that can
arise as side effects from antipsychotic medications taken together. Side
(17:49):
effects can include confusion, hallucinations, drowsiness, and dry mouth. Reggie's
mother visited him every day at the hospital.
Speaker 9 (17:57):
We would could sit in the TV row TV usually
some sports or something.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
I wouldn't say very long. I think it was very
short visits, you know.
Speaker 9 (18:08):
I think John George was good for him and he
got set.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Up with some good counselors. Outside of that.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
During his stay at the psychiatric hospital, Reggie also met
a woman admitted for her own mental struggles. The two
of them connected, huddling in emotional sessions and opening up
to one another. Reggie later mentioned this woman to his family,
telling them he had met this quote nice young lady
who was having a hard time, and said he wished
he could see her again, just to see how she
(18:40):
was doing. He never did, but whoever this person was,
she left a lasting, searing impression on Reggie.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
To that young lady, if you ever read this, I'll
always remember us crying together, your beautiful soul. I hope
your life got better.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
After ten days of John George, Reggie was released now
armed with a diagnosis and medication to combat his paranoia
and anxieties.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
At first, he seemed much improved.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
There were sparks of the old Reggie, cracking jokes, complaining
about the Raiders quarterback flirting with pretty women as they
stroll past his porch.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
But the meds also took their toll, causing Reggie to
be sluggish and mentally foggy. His sexy, sweat, bravado, and
wit had mostly vanished.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Like many people struggling with mental illness, Reggie's life became
a battle between not wanting to over medicate or slipping
back into symptoms if the meds were skipped.
Speaker 6 (19:38):
That's when he came out of John George is that
when he got the job at the newspaper not very
long after, he never gave up. He would always try
to get a job.
Speaker 9 (19:49):
He kept busy, kept doing something, kept doing something.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
So after he got out of the hospital, Reggie was
still determined to finish his degree and become a working
journal and find a career for himself in this industry.
And I actually, looking back, I find it very very admirable.
I never faced any of those hardships. And it's hard
enough making it as a journalist. And here's Reggie just
busting his ass, busting his ass, everything falling apart around him,
(20:16):
and he's still going for it.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It's very admirable.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
I mean, at this point, he's still struggling with his
mental illness. He's still trying to go to therapy and
taking medications, but he's also making this two mile commute
across the Title Canal to actually attend classes at the
College of a lot of media. He's not giving up
on his dream, and after a few months he actually
gets it.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
In late nineteen ninety seven, he started covering sports as
a new reporter for the San Leandro Times, a daily
newspaper in the Bay Area. Reggie was psyched. It had
been a difficult journey, but here he was, at long
last being paid to cover sports.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
You'd write mainly about.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Local stuff, high school games, small colleges.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Reggie seemed to be back on track.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
In his brief time at the newspaper, he was churning
out regular copy and he relished being back in journalism.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
This is what he was born to do and he.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
Was doing it.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
Sadly, it wouldn't last.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
As his family leaves through Reggie's medical records and photos.
I asked them whether they ever got glimpses of the
old Reggie after his stay at John George.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Oh, yeah, there would be moments. There would be times
when he's like.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Himself, but I'd to keep eye on that, never know
when it's gonna change. Nothing about this perspective to me,
he never never been the same to me, not in
one moment.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
No, that's the only thing that gave me comfort in
him not being here, because he's never been the same
to me.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
All accounts, Reggie's stay at John George helped him mentally,
but the next two decades were a deepening struggle. He
was let go from the San Leandro Times, essentially bringing
an end to his journalism career. He started getting help
at Turning Point Community Programs, a mental health treatment center,
but he misvisits or common to angry and belligerent one visit,
then calm and cooperative the next. He struggled to find
(22:22):
a job, surviving on disability benefits.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
More meds were prescribed.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
During one visit to Turning Point in September of twenty fifteen,
his psychiatrist noted Reggie had been diagnosed as having schizo
effective disorder a combination of schizophrenia and a moved disorder
such as depression or bipolar disorder. He told him he
was bombarded at night by voices in his left ear,
sometimes of black celebrities like R Kelly. He admitted to
(22:50):
smoking weed and drinking two to three beers a night
before bed. When asked if he'd ever had a head injury,
Reggie recounted the time at Grambling he got jumped by
a group of flayers.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Reggie swore by that incident, though Jeff and I had
trouble confirming it through friends or former football players.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Reggie continued visiting Turning Point. Things seemed to only get worse.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
During another visit in August of twenty eighteen, he told
the psychiatrist he sleeps only three to four hours a night,
quote because of the voices in his head, and that
he had been admitted to a psychiatric hospital three times
in recent months.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
He rarely left his house. The list of meds read
like a pharmacy exam.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Clonazepam, thiophyxine, Abilify for panel law, Latuda, and prozac.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
In other words, he was really struggling, truly. He also
was diagnosed with diabetes and began receiving dialysis. The combination
of bad physical and mental health overwhelmed Reggie. His state
of mind started to slide.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
Right, if you were to surmise what he was like
at his best compared to what he was like later on,
Like how would you compare contrast who he was that
week became It's.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
Like you're locked in there so in your eyes sometimes
I see you want to come out, but you can't.
So I know he struggled with like who I am?
And he said that a lot, like I'm a gregular man,
I'm a writer. You can't take that for me, like
nobody wants to. But he was so smart that he
understood that, Like shit you thought. I think that's what
(24:37):
he struggled with, Like I want to be myself, but
I think he realized that I am different.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Now, Like if you asked the question for the part
of him to have realized he was different.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Did I have a weird question for him? So, like
emostionally in my curent about sports, right, and there's always
something really haunt him about the athlete.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Who is supposed to be great and doesn't be hungry,
and he's haunted his whole life by this everyone. He
was always the phenom in high school and he went
to college and he threw ninety eight but then he
blew out his arm and I was working it right
or else To me in a way that feels like raggy,
like gram Late, Holy shit, this guy's going to gram
(25:21):
lay journalism, internship, freedom for them, all this stuff.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
And it seems like it's really it just seems crushing.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
He probably thought he was meant for something, ye or
am I overstatedent?
Speaker 6 (25:34):
No? No, he was meant for greatness. He was great.
He knew he was great, he knew he.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Was a ship.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
That was a struggle, like not being able to get
to that over that heel you right there, you right there,
you teetering and you're teetering and then you just keep.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Yeah and then you see everyone else going on a way. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Did he talk about that about not being able to
reach those heights and didn't work for Never?
Speaker 6 (26:01):
Never just openly said, I mean most.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I heard about that is like he could have been young, Yeah,
that could have been me.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
What did he say about Puss.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
I'm actually curious about when when he would talk about
us to you all, like what he did.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
He's just they're successful.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I mean, you talk about what you do, you know,
and what Jeff does, and he wouldn't stay on.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
It very long.
Speaker 8 (26:28):
Well we knew that we do, but watching, yeah, and
probably even afraid to like reach out to Jack.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Yeah, he didn't have anything great to tell you.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Voices in his head, paranoia, anxiety, insomnia, all of it
would come roaring back, and this time it would lead
him and his family to unthink about tragedy. Next time
on Finding Sexy Sweat, And then all of a.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
Sudden, the music was playing and you'd get on the
floor and you just starting.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
To get hidi, and you could tell, and I could tell.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I'm like, you know, Rich, let's just, you know, let's
go get.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Some fresh air because he's sweating at this point too.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Calm the fuck down.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
If you don't comb your hair.
Speaker 10 (27:17):
Still, I try to hold out, we can fix this,
but then I see, no, m something's not right.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Finding Sexy Sweat is a production of School of Humans
and iHeart Podcasts. This episode was reported, written and hosted
by Jeff Pearlman and Rich Jervis, who was produced by
Gabby Watts with production support from Etily's Prez Zaron Burnett
is our story editor. Jesse and Eiswanger scored and mixed
the episode. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Elsie Crowley, and
(27:51):
Brandon Barr. Please leave the show a review and you
can follow along with the show on Instagram at School
of Humans.
In the fall of nineteen ninety seven, Janeene Jefferson scored
a pair of tickets to watch the NBA's Golden State
Warriors play a home game at nearby Oakland Arena. She
invited her big brother, Reggie Payne to tag along. Reggie
was back in OpenD after having abruptly left Grambling State University,
and his mood had been pretty.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Sour and his mental health cratering.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Perhaps it was the naive hope of a concerned sister,
but Janeen thought the game might just maybe lift his spirits.
This was two decades before the Warriors would add future
Hall of Famer Steph Curry and launch into the franchise's
golden era. At the time, they were bottom of the
league junk pile that would wind up finishing nineteen and
(00:48):
sixty three. But even if he would be rooting on
a roster of forgettable non legends like a Donal Foyle
and Jeff Grayer, for Reggie sports was everything did harmlessly enough.
The crowd was into it. The trials Spreewell, one of
Golden seats few standouts, was putting up numbers and the
rhythms of the game served as a soothing soundtrack for Reggie.
(01:11):
But then, just as he was easing into the actions
before him, something snapped, and snapped hard. Reggie began yelling
at the players at the bench, at the coaches, at
the refs. His shouts grew in intensity, amplifying past the
usual fan heckling.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
They turned louder and darker and meaner.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
So he was so charged up at the Warriors game
he was like, you'll fucking.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
This just going off streaming at the players.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
At the players, of course, like you yell at the
players at the game, but the bipolar it intensified at times.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Ten those sitting nearby inside the arena began to notice.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Then security. Finally Janine had to pull Reggie out of
the building. We had to leave.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
This was Reggie's new life. One moment we're all good,
the next we might be heading to jail. A new,
unrecognizable darkness was rising in him, and it were to
only get worse. This is Finding Sexy Sweat, a podcast
where me, Jeff Pearlman, and my colleague Rick Jervis attempt
(02:23):
to retrace the life of our longtime friend and fellow
journalist Reggie Payne.
Speaker 5 (02:27):
Better known by his rap name sexy sweat to.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Try and learn how our life paths differed so sharply
and why Reggie met such an untimely death after being
handcuffed on the living room floor of his parents' home
in Sacramento. This is episode four Homecoming. If you've been
following this podcast, you know that we've traced Reggie's steps
(02:53):
from his upbringing in Oakland housing projects, through his glaring
optimism and hope in high school and later at Grambling
State University, to the realization that he was going to
be a father of twenty two.
Speaker 5 (03:03):
And this is when the Reggie we knew as a
fellow journalism intern and doormay at Tennessee State University, the
one who bounded around with optimism and swagger, the aspiring rapper,
this is when he starts to be replaced by something
much darker.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
And the crazy thing is, we don't one hundred percent
know what set it off. It's impossible to say for sure.
Ask his family members, and they point to the time
a group of Grambling football players allegedly jumped him at
a party on campus. Rick and I had trouble corroborating
that story, but his family firmly believed Reggie's account of it.
Speaker 5 (03:39):
That's when his behavior shifted drastically. Even two thousand miles away,
family members sensed Reggie's unraveling. His phone calls home, once
a source of delight for his parents and sisters, became
increasingly moro's nonsensical. He complained about people crawling on his
roof or breaking into the Traylor where he lived off campus.
(04:02):
He claimed that someone had come into his trailer, opened
a bag of potato chips, and then resealed it. His
words were panicky, breathless. His sister Crystal recalled his erratic
behavior when we met with the family in their Sacramento home.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
He had started calling, but he'd be like, Crystal, where's Mama,
And I'm like, she's not here. He's like, tell I
think somebody came on my trailer.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
The phone calls came repeatedly, hour after hour, day after day,
so like.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Over the course of maybe not even two weeks, he
would call like Crystal, Mama, like no, she not hear this.
He's like all right, and then he a call right
like look about this one. I'm like, dude, why did
you keep calling? And it'll be like something else, like
I think some about it was on my trailer roof,
like like I'm matching the stuff. Like I'll have Mama
call when you get back.
Speaker 5 (04:51):
After the barrage of panic's phone calls, his family had
heard enough, especially Reggie's mom Harriet.
Speaker 6 (04:58):
Like, Reggie, you need to get your behind home. You
come home now.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Reggie first tried going to the apartment of his girlfriend, Tia,
but she was eagerly put off by his behavior and
was busy caring for their son, Lil Reg who is
then three. She refused to let him into her apartment.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Ultimately, Reggie followed his mother's advice, packed his stuff and
booked a one way Greyhound bus ticket to Oakland, the
Grambling State campus, once radiating with friendships and promise, had
turned into sneering shadows. Reggie was thinking about the football
team incident as he climbed on the bus that day.
Here's what he said in his memoir.
Speaker 7 (05:40):
The days after my jumping, I was isolated, embarrassed, and lonely,
which to this day I think played with my psyche.
Getting jumped or crowded as they say Louisiana on a
black campus. Dude, what did people think of me? What
could I do? Get a gun and shoot up the
(06:02):
football door. No, that wouldn't be a wise decision. I
didn't know what to expect next. I must say this
somewhere close to Dallas, Texas, the satin, the rear of
the greyhound. I felt my head snap.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
In the last episode we described where Reggie said happened
on that greyhound bus, he literally felt his mind snap.
While working on this podcast, I've thought about that a
decent amount.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
You're at an age where you.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Think everything is going to go great and your life
is ahead of you. And here's Reggie and one second
he's a new father and he has all these dreams
of becoming a sports writer, and you know, the next minute,
he's on a greyhound bus. His brain feels like it's imploding.
He doesn't know what's going on with his kid, he
doesn't know what's going out with Tea, and everything feels
like it's collapsing. Of all the lows he went through,
(06:56):
that might be the lowest singular moment.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
I had to be such a rough spot to like being.
I've had sort of mental anxiety. I've had like anxiety attacks.
Like those things tended to happen to me later in life,
like in my thirties maybe forties, and I feel like
I guess I was better equipped to deal with them then.
I can't imagine being, you know, this twenty two to
twenty four year old kid again, with your whole life
(07:20):
in front of you, and then seeing all that collapse
because of this thing happening. It just must have been unbearable, really,
Like if you think about it, he had already been
home once. Remember he had come home, he had taken
some time off, then he came back to Grambling and
he was determined to like get his degree and live
(07:41):
out his actual dream. And then this happens, and then
this is much more significant. This is a real sort
of mental collapse at this point.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
I mean, he didn't even know what was going on.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
Like, so you're him, You already feel like a disappointment,
and meanwhile you have these sort of undiagnosed mental health
attacks and you know what it is. You don't know
how to deal with it. You don't know what's up,
what's down, what's left, what's right.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
You feel like something's wrong with you.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
You know that something's wrong with you, but you don't
have the coping tools, the medication, therapy, anything to deal
with it.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So you're just drowning and you're returning home.
Speaker 5 (08:18):
Yeah, I must have been terrifying.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Reggie's time as a sports edit the Grambling Student newspaper
suggested he had it all in front of him.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
He was a gifted writer with a ton of talent
and street smarts. But now he was on a two
day bus ride home. When he got to Oakland, his
family met him at the bus station.
Speaker 5 (08:36):
And the person who walked off the bus left them stunned.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Usually, when Reggie came home on break from Grambling, it
was a cause of celebration for his family and the
Lockwood Village Projects in general. Once they threw him an
actual party, praising the local kid who was growing into a.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
But in May nineteen ninety six, the family drove downtown
to the Greyhound bus terminal and we're speechless at the
regie who stepped off the bus.
Speaker 6 (09:12):
When he got to the Greyhound bus station.
Speaker 3 (09:14):
We were like what the He was like very thin.
It was like, okay, you was calling trip and we
knew something wasn't right. But he came home he was
like a freaking skeleton.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
I've had a bunch of homecomings with my kids by
now I have two kids, and you always hope that
wherever they're coming back from from camp or from college
or some trip, you always hope that they're going to,
you know, step off the plane or step off the
bus or get out of the car, and they're going
to look good and they're gonna be excited, and they're
going to have this sort of pep in their step
because they just had this adventure and they had this
thing happened in their life. And I think you you
(09:47):
kind of think when your kid is coming back from college,
it's going to be the same. And even if you
know that, you know there's it's not going great, you
shoult of hope if nothing else, your kid gets off
the bus and he's content and sound minded and at
least feeling somewhat good about himself.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
And that is definitely not what they got here.
Speaker 5 (10:10):
Yeah, you only want the best for all your children, right,
Like you're constantly trying to protect them. You constantly want
them to go through life in a healthy, sane way.
And here they are, you know, showing up to this
Greyhound bus station and out comes this son of yours.
You're only an oldest son, and he's just a shut
(10:30):
of himself, right, he just looks so different. It's just
a nightmare scenario for any parent.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
They obviously knew heading to the bus station that something
had been off, and they knew it hadn't been an
easy road for him, but I think seeing him there
in the flesh, it was just significantly worse than they.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
Could have imagined.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
You know one thing I think about as a parent
that I don't think people realize until they become parents.
You would always rather it be you than them. Like
once you become a parent, you would always trade places
with your kid and their misery. Like if your kid
breaks a leg and is really struggling. I'm not even
just making this up. I'm sure you've seen it too,
Like you'd rather you break your leg. My kids, you know,
there've been issues with whatever anxiety, and I'd rather that
(11:13):
be me, Like and I'm sure Reggie's parents showing up
with the bus station, they'd rather be them. Like the
last thing you want to see in the world, hands down,
as a parent, is your kids hurting in such a profound,
profound way. And the worst bird is knowing there's really
nothing you can do about it, that you are just
there and your witness to it and your witness to
your kid crumbling apart. But there's nothing you can really
(11:35):
do about it. That is the worst freaking thing in
the world. And I've experienced it, and I'm sure you've
experienced it too.
Speaker 6 (11:40):
What is it like to watch some sort of unravel? Oh,
it's it's it's very hard. It's heartbreaking, heart breaking.
Speaker 8 (11:48):
It was bad days when you can't good damn.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
But what does that what would a bad day look
like like?
Speaker 6 (11:53):
What does that mean? Set out burst? We got a
good moments? Good moment's good in the neighborhood.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Like some of the younger kids who used to like
show his baseball cars to r to licrockers, so.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
He would want to run down and light fight him,
chase them.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
They like Ridge.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
It's me like they would never write him back, they would.
Speaker 6 (12:14):
Never like seeing him up or nothing.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
Everybody knew it wasn't the same Rede.
Speaker 5 (12:21):
According to the family, Reggie moved back into his old
room in their apartment at Lockwood Village, but he was
a physical, mental, and emotional husk of his old self.
His girlfriend, Tia was back with their son in southern California,
a seven hour drive south from Reggie's home in Oakland.
He was two classes Shy of graduating from Grambling, Reggie
(12:44):
enrolled at the College of Alameda, just a few miles
away from their apartment.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Six credits.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
That's all he needed to get that coveted diploma to
separate himself from the majority of the people growing up
in the housing project where he lived. Ambitions still flickered
inside of.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
Him, but his mind had other plans.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
People in the neighborhood quickly noticed Reggie had been the
crown prince of sixty nine Village, the superstar who elevated
himself on pure street smarts, focus and talent, destined for greatness.
And now everybody was liked, like, you know, I'd come
home as the music is this.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Time it was like having the reds, y'all like somebody.
Speaker 6 (13:27):
That's what they say in the community. It's just like,
first of all, they go, they know he's on drugs.
Speaker 5 (13:34):
This is around the time Reggie went to that disastrous
Golden State Warriors game. After that, Reggie's condition only grew worse.
A few days of normal, Reggie would be quickly followed
by erratic behavior. His family could no longer hope he'd
just snap out of it. They started considering seeking outside help.
Speaker 7 (13:54):
He would walk around.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
He would he would just walk around, like spitting on
the floor.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
That's not Reggie.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
We already knew something's not right. But we got him
here and he's gonna be okay. I'm all flattened, my
gun up. He's gonna be fine.
Speaker 7 (14:10):
You know.
Speaker 6 (14:10):
Then he's spitting on the floor. No, we have to
go somewhere. Rig you have to get some help.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Do you think he knew when he was hong when
he's spitting on the floor and all that stuff is
going on, do you think he knew something was wrong
with him?
Speaker 6 (14:26):
Like was he aware that he something was broken in him?
Speaker 9 (14:30):
I don't think he realized it, like this is not me,
you know. I think he felt like I'm still Reggie.
I'm still sexy, sweat, you know, still mean, because he
would say, I'm not crazy. Y'all'd have one crazy you
know it ain't me. So no, he didn't.
Speaker 6 (14:49):
He didn't realize that was there, like mental health wise,
sort of a low moment or an incident that you
remember where you were like this has reached a point
that is unsustainable.
Speaker 9 (15:00):
It wasn't one particular moment. He was just not himself
no more.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
How long a.
Speaker 6 (15:10):
Pretty pretty quick, like maybe a couple of weeks. I'm
on the.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Table of the hall.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
My mom sent me to the place I've always known
as a crazy house.
Speaker 5 (15:27):
Reggie's referring to the John George Psychiatric Hospital, an eighty
bed impatient facility in nearby Alameda. According to its website,
John George is a quote world class patient and family
center system of care affiliated with the University of California.
Our mission here at John George Psychiatric Hospital is simple
(15:48):
but powerful, caring, healing, teaching, serving all.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
But it wasn't a place without its challenges. All sorts
of patients showed up at the hospital, many in distress
her dangerous states of mental anxiety. In nineteen ninety eight,
a year after Reggie's visit, California's Division of Occupational Safety
and Health investigated John George after fielding complaints about violent
workplace assaults, mostly patient's assaulting.
Speaker 6 (16:14):
Staff.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
Employee number one had calmed a male mental health patient
and was walking away from him when he assaulted her
from behind.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
Alamna County Psychiatric Hospital Titan security Friday after a veteran
doctor was killed on the job and a patient she
had been evaluating was arrested on suspicion of murder.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Numerous other investigations and citations followed. In two thousand and three,
a patient attacked and killed one of the hospital's doctors
during an examination.
Speaker 5 (16:43):
But for his family, the hospital was an important, though
difficult step toward getting Reggie better. About a week after
the ill fated Warriors game, Harriet drove Reggie to John
George and had him admitted for inpatient treatment.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
It's unknown for us decisely what Reggie saw or felt there,
but we get a few clues from his book. He
starts chapter fifteen with the ominous line John George is
not the place to be, trust me.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
And he was diagnosed there for the first time. Yeah,
as bipowlar So we weren't able to find any records
from Reggie's time at John George, but his family told
us he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
He would go on to spend ten days at the hospital.
He was prescribed to medications navane and antipsychotic medication used
to treat the symptoms of schizophrenia, and kogentin, then primarily
prescribed with other medications to treat symptoms of Parkinson's disease.
But in this case to address movement problems that can
arise as side effects from antipsychotic medications taken together. Side
(17:49):
effects can include confusion, hallucinations, drowsiness, and dry mouth. Reggie's
mother visited him every day at the hospital.
Speaker 9 (17:57):
We would could sit in the TV row TV usually
some sports or something.
Speaker 6 (18:03):
I wouldn't say very long. I think it was very
short visits, you know.
Speaker 9 (18:08):
I think John George was good for him and he
got set.
Speaker 6 (18:12):
Up with some good counselors. Outside of that.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
During his stay at the psychiatric hospital, Reggie also met
a woman admitted for her own mental struggles. The two
of them connected, huddling in emotional sessions and opening up
to one another. Reggie later mentioned this woman to his family,
telling them he had met this quote nice young lady
who was having a hard time, and said he wished
he could see her again, just to see how she
(18:40):
was doing. He never did, but whoever this person was,
she left a lasting, searing impression on Reggie.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
To that young lady, if you ever read this, I'll
always remember us crying together, your beautiful soul. I hope
your life got better.
Speaker 5 (18:57):
After ten days of John George, Reggie was released now
armed with a diagnosis and medication to combat his paranoia
and anxieties.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
At first, he seemed much improved.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
There were sparks of the old Reggie, cracking jokes, complaining
about the Raiders quarterback flirting with pretty women as they
stroll past his porch.
Speaker 5 (19:18):
But the meds also took their toll, causing Reggie to
be sluggish and mentally foggy. His sexy, sweat, bravado, and
wit had mostly vanished.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
Like many people struggling with mental illness, Reggie's life became
a battle between not wanting to over medicate or slipping
back into symptoms if the meds were skipped.
Speaker 6 (19:38):
That's when he came out of John George is that
when he got the job at the newspaper not very
long after, he never gave up. He would always try
to get a job.
Speaker 9 (19:49):
He kept busy, kept doing something, kept doing something.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
So after he got out of the hospital, Reggie was
still determined to finish his degree and become a working
journal and find a career for himself in this industry.
And I actually, looking back, I find it very very admirable.
I never faced any of those hardships. And it's hard
enough making it as a journalist. And here's Reggie just
busting his ass, busting his ass, everything falling apart around him,
(20:16):
and he's still going for it.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It's very admirable.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
I mean, at this point, he's still struggling with his
mental illness. He's still trying to go to therapy and
taking medications, but he's also making this two mile commute
across the Title Canal to actually attend classes at the
College of a lot of media. He's not giving up
on his dream, and after a few months he actually
gets it.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
In late nineteen ninety seven, he started covering sports as
a new reporter for the San Leandro Times, a daily
newspaper in the Bay Area. Reggie was psyched. It had
been a difficult journey, but here he was, at long
last being paid to cover sports.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
You'd write mainly about.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
Local stuff, high school games, small colleges.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Reggie seemed to be back on track.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
In his brief time at the newspaper, he was churning
out regular copy and he relished being back in journalism.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
This is what he was born to do and he.
Speaker 6 (21:12):
Was doing it.
Speaker 5 (21:18):
Sadly, it wouldn't last.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
As his family leaves through Reggie's medical records and photos.
I asked them whether they ever got glimpses of the
old Reggie after his stay at John George.
Speaker 6 (21:33):
Oh, yeah, there would be moments. There would be times
when he's like.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
Himself, but I'd to keep eye on that, never know
when it's gonna change. Nothing about this perspective to me,
he never never been the same to me, not in
one moment.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
No, that's the only thing that gave me comfort in
him not being here, because he's never been the same
to me.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
All accounts, Reggie's stay at John George helped him mentally,
but the next two decades were a deepening struggle. He
was let go from the San Leandro Times, essentially bringing
an end to his journalism career. He started getting help
at Turning Point Community Programs, a mental health treatment center,
but he misvisits or common to angry and belligerent one visit,
then calm and cooperative the next. He struggled to find
(22:22):
a job, surviving on disability benefits.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
More meds were prescribed.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
During one visit to Turning Point in September of twenty fifteen,
his psychiatrist noted Reggie had been diagnosed as having schizo
effective disorder a combination of schizophrenia and a moved disorder
such as depression or bipolar disorder. He told him he
was bombarded at night by voices in his left ear,
sometimes of black celebrities like R Kelly. He admitted to
(22:50):
smoking weed and drinking two to three beers a night
before bed. When asked if he'd ever had a head injury,
Reggie recounted the time at Grambling he got jumped by
a group of flayers.
Speaker 5 (23:02):
Reggie swore by that incident, though Jeff and I had
trouble confirming it through friends or former football players.
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Reggie continued visiting Turning Point. Things seemed to only get worse.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
During another visit in August of twenty eighteen, he told
the psychiatrist he sleeps only three to four hours a night,
quote because of the voices in his head, and that
he had been admitted to a psychiatric hospital three times
in recent months.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
He rarely left his house. The list of meds read
like a pharmacy exam.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Clonazepam, thiophyxine, Abilify for panel law, Latuda, and prozac.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
In other words, he was really struggling, truly. He also
was diagnosed with diabetes and began receiving dialysis. The combination
of bad physical and mental health overwhelmed Reggie. His state
of mind started to slide.
Speaker 6 (24:03):
Right, if you were to surmise what he was like
at his best compared to what he was like later on,
Like how would you compare contrast who he was that
week became It's.
Speaker 8 (24:13):
Like you're locked in there so in your eyes sometimes
I see you want to come out, but you can't.
So I know he struggled with like who I am?
And he said that a lot, like I'm a gregular man,
I'm a writer. You can't take that for me, like
nobody wants to. But he was so smart that he
understood that, Like shit you thought. I think that's what
(24:37):
he struggled with, Like I want to be myself, but
I think he realized that I am different.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Now, Like if you asked the question for the part
of him to have realized he was different.
Speaker 6 (24:51):
Did I have a weird question for him? So, like
emostionally in my curent about sports, right, and there's always
something really haunt him about the athlete.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Who is supposed to be great and doesn't be hungry,
and he's haunted his whole life by this everyone. He
was always the phenom in high school and he went
to college and he threw ninety eight but then he
blew out his arm and I was working it right
or else To me in a way that feels like raggy,
like gram Late, Holy shit, this guy's going to gram
(25:21):
lay journalism, internship, freedom for them, all this stuff.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
And it seems like it's really it just seems crushing.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
He probably thought he was meant for something, ye or
am I overstatedent?
Speaker 6 (25:34):
No? No, he was meant for greatness. He was great.
He knew he was great, he knew he.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Was a ship.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
That was a struggle, like not being able to get
to that over that heel you right there, you right there,
you teetering and you're teetering and then you just keep.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
Yeah and then you see everyone else going on a way. Yeah.
Speaker 5 (25:56):
Did he talk about that about not being able to
reach those heights and didn't work for Never?
Speaker 6 (26:01):
Never just openly said, I mean most.
Speaker 4 (26:04):
I heard about that is like he could have been young, Yeah,
that could have been me.
Speaker 6 (26:09):
What did he say about Puss.
Speaker 5 (26:11):
I'm actually curious about when when he would talk about
us to you all, like what he did.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
He's just they're successful.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
I mean, you talk about what you do, you know,
and what Jeff does, and he wouldn't stay on.
Speaker 6 (26:26):
It very long.
Speaker 8 (26:28):
Well we knew that we do, but watching, yeah, and
probably even afraid to like reach out to Jack.
Speaker 6 (26:35):
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
Yeah, he didn't have anything great to tell you.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Voices in his head, paranoia, anxiety, insomnia, all of it
would come roaring back, and this time it would lead
him and his family to unthink about tragedy. Next time
on Finding Sexy Sweat, And then all of a.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
Sudden, the music was playing and you'd get on the
floor and you just starting.
Speaker 4 (27:06):
To get hidi, and you could tell, and I could tell.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
I'm like, you know, Rich, let's just, you know, let's
go get.
Speaker 6 (27:11):
Some fresh air because he's sweating at this point too.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Calm the fuck down.
Speaker 6 (27:16):
If you don't comb your hair.
Speaker 10 (27:17):
Still, I try to hold out, we can fix this,
but then I see, no, m something's not right.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
Finding Sexy Sweat is a production of School of Humans
and iHeart Podcasts. This episode was reported, written and hosted
by Jeff Pearlman and Rich Jervis, who was produced by
Gabby Watts with production support from Etily's Prez Zaron Burnett
is our story editor. Jesse and Eiswanger scored and mixed
the episode. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, Elsie Crowley, and
(27:51):
Brandon Barr. Please leave the show a review and you
can follow along with the show on Instagram at School
of Humans.
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