June 25, 2024 • 15 mins
Charley recounts the tale of a unique flag that traveled across the country to bring healing to two communities devastated by similar tragedies. He reflects on Joanne Thompson's extraordinary efforts to deliver this simple yet powerful symbol, aimed at restoring shattered spirits and fostering enduring bonds of compassion.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
So today I want to talk about a flag that
I sent across the country back in twenty and fifteen.
That's when the flag was actually sent across the country
to Charleston, South Carolina. But the story really started back
in twenty and eleven, and that was in January of
(00:25):
two thousand. January eighth of twenty eleven, when here in Tucson,
it was a Saturday, we had a mass shooting at
a local grocery store here and a representative of the
House of Representatives, Gabby Giffords, was.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Shot in the head.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
There were six people killed as well as a nine
year old young girl they name of Christina Taylor Green.
You know, the Safe Way, the location where took place
is very close to where I live, and I had
been at that safe Way and visited on numerous occasions, so.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I was really familiar with the area where it took place.
And it hit hard.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
You know, you think of mass shootings or casualty shootings
throughout the country and you can kind of distance yourself
or you know, because you haven't been there, don't You
don't know what it's like. You just read about it
and you move on. But in this particular case, you know,
I had been into this location. I was familiar with it,
so it struck a chord with me, you know. And
(01:33):
Gabby Giffords was loved by many here in the States,
especially Tucson.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
She survived, but there were some news.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Reports that came out that she had been murdered, that
she was dead. It wasn't until probably about a month later,
maybe maybe two to three weeks a month later, that
they finally came out and said she's alive, but you know,
she's severely disabled. Tragic, tragic event, first time anything on
(02:02):
that level had happened.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We had a white male, twenty two years old, mental
health problems, who fired thirty two rounds into a crowd,
just randomly, but he was particularly trying to assassinate Gabby Giffords.
It was just hard to wrap your head around. It
was tough time for a long time for many of
us here in Tucson. So that's where it started. And
(02:28):
I didn't note at the time until June seventeenth of
twenty and fifteen. At this point in my career, i'd
been a top for fourteen years and I had just
had the one year anniversary of flags for the flagless
right June fourteenth of twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
My first flag went up.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Here in Tucson, and now here it is June seventeenth,
twenty fifteen. One year later, we have a twenty one
year old white male who went into a house of
worship in Charleston, South Carolina, and he killed nine people
after he had sat with them during a Bible study.
(03:11):
And at the time, it was the deadliest mass shooting
at a place of worship in the world. And that
was that emmanual African Methodist Episcopal Church. They shortened it
down to the Ame Church is what that is called.
And if you recall, I mean the nation was the
whole nation was torn up over that, right, we had
(03:33):
a young white male, again very similar Touson go in
mental health issues and just started randomly.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Shooting and killing people. So a couple of days later,
as I was driving home from work one night, you know,
it was all over the radio.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Everybody was talking about what had happened in Charleston, and
I wanted to do something. You know, it was a
terrible thing. And I reflected back on twenty eleven and
how Tucson felt and what we had gone through through
with the shooting of Gabby Gifford's and here Charleston, in
my mind, was suffering, you know, from a similar incident.
(04:09):
It was tough, tough for them, tough for us, and
just the.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Way I am.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I wanted to help somehow, and I didn't know how,
but because the only thing I had to give that
I could show, you know, thanks or the support, was
an American flag. When I got home that night, I
didn't know anything about the Ame Church, didn't know how popular,
(04:36):
how many locations, And I just went online and I
looked up, you know, local Ame churches, and the only
one in southern Arizona was right here in Tucson.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So the next day I get up, go to work,
and while I'm on patrol, I stopped at that Ame church,
much like I did with the very first flag, with
the intent of not looking to talk to anyone in particular,
but just to give an idea of what I wanted
to do, how I wanted to help. Could they help me?
Could they make this happen? And when I walked in
(05:10):
the office, there was a young a young girl sitting
behind the desk. She introduced herself as Viv. Viv was
her name, VIVI a big smile, young girl, eager to help.
And I told her what I had started with my
foundation a year ago, and you know, I would like
to donate a flag or somehow get a flag to
(05:30):
your sister church in Charleston.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
She said, well, that's.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Really not for me to make that decision, right, We'll
have to talk to some some local people here in
the church and see what we can do. So she said,
someone be in touch with you, okay. So I went
back to work, went back to patrol, and a day
or two later, I got a phone call from a
woman who introduced herself as Joanne Thompson. Joanne Thompson was
(05:58):
a steward of the local Ame church and she agreed
to meet with me. She said, sure, let's meet and
let me hear what you have to say. And you
know what your proposal is, to send a flag to Charleston.
So we met and I explained to her, you know
what my thought was. You know how torn up Tucson was,
(06:20):
how upset we were, how devastated we were with the
shooting in twenty eleven. I saw a lot of similarities
in Charleston with the shooting there, and I wanted to
let them know that Tucson supported them. Tucson had been
through a similar situation and I want to show support somehow,
(06:40):
and my thought was to get a flag back to
Charleston somehow. So she said, well, I'm going to have
to run this up my organization, my leadership, and see
what they say, right, she said, I have talked to
the local leadership, who will then have talked to the
state leadership, who will then have to talk to the
(07:03):
leadership out of South Carolina. You know, make sure everyone's
on board with this, she said, you know, if it's
if it's a go, It just so happens that I'll
be going back to Charleston in two weeks for a conference.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
That was already slated to schedule.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
It was supposed to take place at the church, but
because of the tragedy that took place there, we're gonna
hold the conference on an off site location. But you know,
if my bosses or the organization says it's a go,
I could take the flag.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Back with me to Charleston.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
She's like, let me find out, you know, let me
run this by my superiors and I'll let you know.
I said, perfect, because that'll give me time to get
the flag, get a shadow box. You know, it's a
flag and a case maybe a walnut wood frame, got
a glass front on it, secure in the back.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I want to get the flag in a.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Nice shadow box that shouldn't go to Charleston, that it's
presented and ready for him. Sure enough, a couple of
days later, Joanne got back to me and said, Yep,
it's a go. The organizations crossed, you know, between Tucson
(08:18):
and Charleston. Said yes, it's a go, and I'll be
going back here next week. So just get me the
flag and I'll take it. I said, okay. So I
got the flag, put it in the shadow box, and
I wanted to put an inscription. I wanted to put
something on the front of that glass, on the front
of that flag shadow box, to let the folks know
(08:41):
in Charleston you know who it was from, where it
came from, and the connection between Tucson.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And Charleston, and that they're supported.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So on the front of the glass I had inscripted
given to A. M. E. Church, Charleston, South Carolina, and
it said August twenty fifteen from Flags for the Flag List, Tucson, Arizona.
And then on the bottom. In a different font. On
the bottom of the glass, I had written cities joined
(09:12):
by tragedy, our future, joined by hope and love.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Charleston, we stand with you.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So I took that flag and I met with joe
Anne at her church and I presented to her. There
was a one news station was present. A local newspaper
reporter was also there, just to kind of record.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It, and I left.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I wished her safe travels, gave her the flag, and
went on my way. And it's funny even now, I
still think about what the thoughts that I had were
when I was leaving. You know, I'm like, how is
she going to get this big, bulky, triangle sized box
through TSA are they and give her a hard time?
(10:02):
How is she going to put it under her seat?
How is she going to put it in the over it?
Just I'm a detailed guy, right, and that's just my
background what I've been doing for so long, So just
little details like that.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I was like, this.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Poor woman is going to be struggling and she's going
to have to carry it through and then she has
a layover blow. And I had that thought for the
last nine years until I met with Joanne recently, and
I asked her, you know, I said, you know, I
never asked you how did it go? How to go
going through security? Did you have to put it on
(10:38):
the belt and get X rayed and all that stuff?
And she says she looked at me and she said, Charlie,
I never took a plane. I took the Greyhound bus.
I took the bus from Tucson to Kansas City, and
then I went from Kansas City to Charleston. And I
(11:00):
kept that flag on my lap the entire time. I
was like, I couldn't believe it. Right here, I was
so naive to think, Oh, everyone everyone takes a plane, right,
everyone just canna get on a plane and travel cross country.
Johanne had to raise money. She had to find some
(11:20):
sponsors to donate money so that she could even attend
this conference. She raises the money and she gets on
a Greyhound bus and she travels across the country with
this flag on her lap. And she says, you know,
I remember now, this is Joanne telling me. There was
a gentleman who got on the bus in Kansas City
(11:43):
and he sat next to me, and he introduced himself
and he said he was a vet and yeah. He said,
so you know, what's the deal with the flag?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
And she told him the story, right, it's coming from
two songs going to be delivered to Charleston, and that
it was you know, a local law enforcement officer started
this project and goes on and she says that he said,
I'm thankful that there are people like this in this
country that do things like that, she said. She says,
I'll never forget that. Joanne said that she got Charleston
(12:16):
and she presented this flag up on stage in front
of two hundred other members of the AME conference and
she explained to them the idea behind it, how it
got there, the tragedy that Tucson had gone through, that
we want to show support for Charleston, And she says,
(12:38):
after she was done explaining the story presenting it to
the organization, she said that pretty much everybody in the
crowd was crying. You know that other people had suffered
the same fate and we were thinking of them, right,
So it was a pretty emotional moment. The next year,
(13:00):
her took a trip to Charleston with her family, and
my sister knew that I had donated a flag to
the AME Church in Charleston, and she wanted to go
by and see if she could see it, see it
where they had placed it. And she told me that
she when she went to the church that it was
(13:21):
still so recent after the shooting that they weren't they
were not letting the general public into the church.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It was still closed off.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
She explained who she was, she explained who her brother was,
She explained her connection to the American flag, which should
be inside the church. So wherever she talked to said, well,
come on in. We'll put you here in this office
and someone will be with you. In a few minutes,
they'll come back and talk to you. And my sister said,
about ten minutes later, so a couple of people walked
(13:53):
in and they were carrying this flag that I had
sent back to Charleston.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
That it made it that it was there and that
it completed its journey.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
And you know, I've never been to Charleston, I've never
been to South Carolina, and I hope someday that I
can go back and see this flag. And I think,
you know, when I get to the Amy Church there
and I see the flag, I think in my head,
(14:22):
like I usually do, is I'll have some sort of
short conversation with this flag, you know, and I'll tell
her I know that her her trip was long, it
wasn't easy, but that she made it home where she
was needed, and that she'll remain here and she'll be
(14:44):
seen by so many and loved by so many, that
her new home will be her final resting place.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So that's the story of a flag that made it.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
From Tucson, Arizona, to Charleston, South Carolina by a bus
held on the lap of a woman.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Who is so proud and happy to be a part
of it.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
That it's just, you know, one of many stories, but
very impactful for me and certainly for I hope the
people of Charleston.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of Flags
for the Flagless. This episode was produced by Charlie Foley,
Doug Levy, and Jason Wykel. To listen to Charlie's newest episodes,
please download and subscribe through your favorite podcast service, and
if you like the show enough, leave a review. Your
thoughts would greatly be appreciated. Flags for the Flagless United
(15:42):
Stories of America is proudly produced and distributed by the
eight Side Network.
So today I want to talk about a flag that
I sent across the country back in twenty and fifteen.
That's when the flag was actually sent across the country
to Charleston, South Carolina. But the story really started back
in twenty and eleven, and that was in January of
(00:25):
two thousand. January eighth of twenty eleven, when here in Tucson,
it was a Saturday, we had a mass shooting at
a local grocery store here and a representative of the
House of Representatives, Gabby Giffords, was.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Shot in the head.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
There were six people killed as well as a nine
year old young girl they name of Christina Taylor Green.
You know, the Safe Way, the location where took place
is very close to where I live, and I had
been at that safe Way and visited on numerous occasions, so.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I was really familiar with the area where it took place.
And it hit hard.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
You know, you think of mass shootings or casualty shootings
throughout the country and you can kind of distance yourself
or you know, because you haven't been there, don't You
don't know what it's like. You just read about it
and you move on. But in this particular case, you know,
I had been into this location. I was familiar with it,
so it struck a chord with me, you know. And
(01:33):
Gabby Giffords was loved by many here in the States,
especially Tucson.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
She survived, but there were some news.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Reports that came out that she had been murdered, that
she was dead. It wasn't until probably about a month later,
maybe maybe two to three weeks a month later, that
they finally came out and said she's alive, but you know,
she's severely disabled. Tragic, tragic event, first time anything on
(02:02):
that level had happened.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
You know.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
We had a white male, twenty two years old, mental
health problems, who fired thirty two rounds into a crowd,
just randomly, but he was particularly trying to assassinate Gabby Giffords.
It was just hard to wrap your head around. It
was tough time for a long time for many of
us here in Tucson. So that's where it started. And
(02:28):
I didn't note at the time until June seventeenth of
twenty and fifteen. At this point in my career, i'd
been a top for fourteen years and I had just
had the one year anniversary of flags for the flagless
right June fourteenth of twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
My first flag went up.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Here in Tucson, and now here it is June seventeenth,
twenty fifteen. One year later, we have a twenty one
year old white male who went into a house of
worship in Charleston, South Carolina, and he killed nine people
after he had sat with them during a Bible study.
(03:11):
And at the time, it was the deadliest mass shooting
at a place of worship in the world. And that
was that emmanual African Methodist Episcopal Church. They shortened it
down to the Ame Church is what that is called.
And if you recall, I mean the nation was the
whole nation was torn up over that, right, we had
(03:33):
a young white male, again very similar Touson go in
mental health issues and just started randomly.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Shooting and killing people. So a couple of days later,
as I was driving home from work one night, you know,
it was all over the radio.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Everybody was talking about what had happened in Charleston, and
I wanted to do something. You know, it was a
terrible thing. And I reflected back on twenty eleven and
how Tucson felt and what we had gone through through
with the shooting of Gabby Gifford's and here Charleston, in
my mind, was suffering, you know, from a similar incident.
(04:09):
It was tough, tough for them, tough for us, and
just the.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Way I am.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
I wanted to help somehow, and I didn't know how,
but because the only thing I had to give that
I could show, you know, thanks or the support, was
an American flag. When I got home that night, I
didn't know anything about the Ame Church, didn't know how popular,
(04:36):
how many locations, And I just went online and I
looked up, you know, local Ame churches, and the only
one in southern Arizona was right here in Tucson.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So the next day I get up, go to work,
and while I'm on patrol, I stopped at that Ame church,
much like I did with the very first flag, with
the intent of not looking to talk to anyone in particular,
but just to give an idea of what I wanted
to do, how I wanted to help. Could they help me?
Could they make this happen? And when I walked in
(05:10):
the office, there was a young a young girl sitting
behind the desk. She introduced herself as Viv. Viv was
her name, VIVI a big smile, young girl, eager to help.
And I told her what I had started with my
foundation a year ago, and you know, I would like
to donate a flag or somehow get a flag to
(05:30):
your sister church in Charleston.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
She said, well, that's.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Really not for me to make that decision, right, We'll
have to talk to some some local people here in
the church and see what we can do. So she said,
someone be in touch with you, okay. So I went
back to work, went back to patrol, and a day
or two later, I got a phone call from a
woman who introduced herself as Joanne Thompson. Joanne Thompson was
(05:58):
a steward of the local Ame church and she agreed
to meet with me. She said, sure, let's meet and
let me hear what you have to say. And you
know what your proposal is, to send a flag to Charleston.
So we met and I explained to her, you know
what my thought was. You know how torn up Tucson was,
(06:20):
how upset we were, how devastated we were with the
shooting in twenty eleven. I saw a lot of similarities
in Charleston with the shooting there, and I wanted to
let them know that Tucson supported them. Tucson had been
through a similar situation and I want to show support somehow,
(06:40):
and my thought was to get a flag back to
Charleston somehow. So she said, well, I'm going to have
to run this up my organization, my leadership, and see
what they say, right, she said, I have talked to
the local leadership, who will then have talked to the
state leadership, who will then have to talk to the
(07:03):
leadership out of South Carolina. You know, make sure everyone's
on board with this, she said, you know, if it's
if it's a go, It just so happens that I'll
be going back to Charleston in two weeks for a conference.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
That was already slated to schedule.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
It was supposed to take place at the church, but
because of the tragedy that took place there, we're gonna
hold the conference on an off site location. But you know,
if my bosses or the organization says it's a go,
I could take the flag.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Back with me to Charleston.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
She's like, let me find out, you know, let me
run this by my superiors and I'll let you know.
I said, perfect, because that'll give me time to get
the flag, get a shadow box. You know, it's a
flag and a case maybe a walnut wood frame, got
a glass front on it, secure in the back.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
I want to get the flag in a.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Nice shadow box that shouldn't go to Charleston, that it's
presented and ready for him. Sure enough, a couple of
days later, Joanne got back to me and said, Yep,
it's a go. The organizations crossed, you know, between Tucson
(08:18):
and Charleston. Said yes, it's a go, and I'll be
going back here next week. So just get me the
flag and I'll take it. I said, okay. So I
got the flag, put it in the shadow box, and
I wanted to put an inscription. I wanted to put
something on the front of that glass, on the front
of that flag shadow box, to let the folks know
(08:41):
in Charleston you know who it was from, where it
came from, and the connection between Tucson.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
And Charleston, and that they're supported.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
So on the front of the glass I had inscripted
given to A. M. E. Church, Charleston, South Carolina, and
it said August twenty fifteen from Flags for the Flag List, Tucson, Arizona.
And then on the bottom. In a different font. On
the bottom of the glass, I had written cities joined
(09:12):
by tragedy, our future, joined by hope and love.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Charleston, we stand with you.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So I took that flag and I met with joe
Anne at her church and I presented to her. There
was a one news station was present. A local newspaper
reporter was also there, just to kind of record.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
It, and I left.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
I wished her safe travels, gave her the flag, and
went on my way. And it's funny even now, I
still think about what the thoughts that I had were
when I was leaving. You know, I'm like, how is
she going to get this big, bulky, triangle sized box
through TSA are they and give her a hard time?
(10:02):
How is she going to put it under her seat?
How is she going to put it in the over it?
Just I'm a detailed guy, right, and that's just my
background what I've been doing for so long, So just
little details like that.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I was like, this.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Poor woman is going to be struggling and she's going
to have to carry it through and then she has
a layover blow. And I had that thought for the
last nine years until I met with Joanne recently, and
I asked her, you know, I said, you know, I
never asked you how did it go? How to go
going through security? Did you have to put it on
(10:38):
the belt and get X rayed and all that stuff?
And she says she looked at me and she said, Charlie,
I never took a plane. I took the Greyhound bus.
I took the bus from Tucson to Kansas City, and
then I went from Kansas City to Charleston. And I
(11:00):
kept that flag on my lap the entire time. I
was like, I couldn't believe it. Right here, I was
so naive to think, Oh, everyone everyone takes a plane, right,
everyone just canna get on a plane and travel cross country.
Johanne had to raise money. She had to find some
(11:20):
sponsors to donate money so that she could even attend
this conference. She raises the money and she gets on
a Greyhound bus and she travels across the country with
this flag on her lap. And she says, you know,
I remember now, this is Joanne telling me. There was
a gentleman who got on the bus in Kansas City
(11:43):
and he sat next to me, and he introduced himself
and he said he was a vet and yeah. He said,
so you know, what's the deal with the flag?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
And she told him the story, right, it's coming from
two songs going to be delivered to Charleston, and that
it was you know, a local law enforcement officer started
this project and goes on and she says that he said,
I'm thankful that there are people like this in this
country that do things like that, she said. She says,
I'll never forget that. Joanne said that she got Charleston
(12:16):
and she presented this flag up on stage in front
of two hundred other members of the AME conference and
she explained to them the idea behind it, how it
got there, the tragedy that Tucson had gone through, that
we want to show support for Charleston, And she says,
(12:38):
after she was done explaining the story presenting it to
the organization, she said that pretty much everybody in the
crowd was crying. You know that other people had suffered
the same fate and we were thinking of them, right,
So it was a pretty emotional moment. The next year,
(13:00):
her took a trip to Charleston with her family, and
my sister knew that I had donated a flag to
the AME Church in Charleston, and she wanted to go
by and see if she could see it, see it
where they had placed it. And she told me that
she when she went to the church that it was
(13:21):
still so recent after the shooting that they weren't they
were not letting the general public into the church.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
It was still closed off.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
She explained who she was, she explained who her brother was,
She explained her connection to the American flag, which should
be inside the church. So wherever she talked to said, well,
come on in. We'll put you here in this office
and someone will be with you. In a few minutes,
they'll come back and talk to you. And my sister said,
about ten minutes later, so a couple of people walked
(13:53):
in and they were carrying this flag that I had
sent back to Charleston.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
That it made it that it was there and that
it completed its journey.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
And you know, I've never been to Charleston, I've never
been to South Carolina, and I hope someday that I
can go back and see this flag. And I think,
you know, when I get to the Amy Church there
and I see the flag, I think in my head,
(14:22):
like I usually do, is I'll have some sort of
short conversation with this flag, you know, and I'll tell
her I know that her her trip was long, it
wasn't easy, but that she made it home where she
was needed, and that she'll remain here and she'll be
(14:44):
seen by so many and loved by so many, that
her new home will be her final resting place.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
So that's the story of a flag that made it.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
From Tucson, Arizona, to Charleston, South Carolina by a bus
held on the lap of a woman.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Who is so proud and happy to be a part
of it.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
That it's just, you know, one of many stories, but
very impactful for me and certainly for I hope the
people of Charleston.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of Flags
for the Flagless. This episode was produced by Charlie Foley,
Doug Levy, and Jason Wykel. To listen to Charlie's newest episodes,
please download and subscribe through your favorite podcast service, and
if you like the show enough, leave a review. Your
thoughts would greatly be appreciated. Flags for the Flagless United
(15:42):
Stories of America is proudly produced and distributed by the
eight Side Network.
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