August 20, 2024 • 28 mins
Charley reflects on his unique and almost decade-long relationship between Flags for the Flagless and the University of Arizona Athletic Department, and how together they find a patriotic and emotional way to honor deceased and fallen heroes and their families with a very special flag tradition.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
For most of you listening today, know that the last
few of my podcasts have been pretty inspirational and a
few have even covered some history, while others have given
you some insight as to how a family who has
had someone serve in the military, you know how that
family reflects upon the American flag after that level one
(00:28):
has passed away. Today, I want to tell you a
story which is about opportunity and community and how these
two things come together to make one of the best partnerships,
in my opinion, in all of collegiate athletics.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
If you listen to.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Some of my previous podcast you know the background out
of my organization, they're already aware. Then what really brings
all of these flag events together is that I'm constantly
looking for opportunities within my community bring more American flags
to be placed. I'm not just always looking within my community,
though I'm doing so along my travels right I'm looking
(01:09):
for opportunities to connect a flag with a new home
or a new location. Some of these locations I've made
it a point to make sure that a flag goes up,
while at other times it just so happens to come about.
You know, when I connect with someone or connect with
the right folks. There's flags going up that I didn't
anticipate or didn't identify. So opportunity plays a big role
(01:33):
in this. You know, there's often times where I may
not know right away what I might do with multiple
flags which are donated to me, or what I'll do
with a rather large.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Flag that someone has given me.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I just know that the opportunity for their use it'll
only be a matter of time. I just need to
keep my eyes and my ears open and an opportunity
I know will present itself. And a good example of
this is a flag which was recently gifted to me.
It's a rather large one. It's twelve feet high by
fourteen feet long, which is a pretty good sized flag.
(02:13):
You know, I currently have no plans on how it'll
be utilized, but I know that in time, an opportunity
will present itself. I'm not going to turn down and
offer just because I may not know what I'm going
to do with it. But I know that if I'm
patient and wait, that flag and I will find its purpose.
So having provided you now with some of you know,
(02:35):
some more background on how I operate when being presented
with flags that I don't know how to be utilized
right away.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I want to take you back to July of twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
It was in July twenty fifteen when I had a
large event which I spoke of in a previous podcast,
where I had put together thirteen groups to raise up
thirteen different flags all the same time around Tucson. We
have listened to that previous podcast. It's how Barbie's Flag,
and it has to do with this particular event I'm
referring to, which is one July fourth that year. With
(03:09):
the ample media coverage that particular flag event generated, I
was started to get some contacts and people reaching out
to me, people from all over Tucson who I didn't
know yet, all of whom shared the same story. These
families that contacted me told me that they had an
American flag which was given to them by the US
government because a family member of THEIRS who once had
(03:32):
served in the military had now passed away. These families
would tell me that the flag, which was given to
them in honor of their family member, was now either
just sitting in a closet gathering dust, or it was
put away an addresser drawer in an empty bedroom where
no one would see them. You know, these flags were
given to families when maybe their grandpa served during the
(03:55):
nineteen forties, or a brother who served in Vietnam, or
someone's husband who had once served in the South Pacific.
Those folks were now gone and all these families had
left now was this American flag which was given to them.
These families had read about my program and various media outlets,
and then they approached me and had the same idea,
(04:18):
and that was that they would like to donate their
family member's casket flag to me so that it will
fly again, it'll be seen by others to remember that
their loved one who served the military will not be forgotten.
All these folks would tell me that the family member
who this flag represents, they would want their flag to
(04:40):
be out. They would want it up flying or be seen.
They wouldn't want it to be put away somewhere and forgotten.
About these flags which I speak of, The flags which
various families wanted to donate are often referred to as
casket flags or coffin flags. These particular flags are always
made of cotton and they measure five and a half
(05:01):
feet tall by nine feet long. Oftentimes these flags are
used to cover the caskets of those family members who
served in the military.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And have now passed away.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
These flags are then removed from atop the casket, folded
into a triangle, and then given to the next of
kin as their family members laid to rest. So you
could say that oftentimes these particular flags are the last
thing to touch these veterans, these loved ones before they
are buried. Very important to recognize the significance of these
(05:36):
coffin flags in their triangle fold when you see them
firmly starch cotton flag folded into a triangle. If you
look around, you'll notice that the symbol or image of
a folded triangle flag is being used currently by very
large nonprofit organization. And you would also see that at
(05:57):
times TV sport commentators have worn a folded flagpin on
their lapels during the broadcast of some big sporting event.
There's also a relatively new song entitled Folded Flag by
Aaron Lewis, which is pretty good, if I must say,
if you listen closely to the words of that song,
it sums up pretty much when I'm explaining here, so
(06:19):
I will always you know when I'm out and about
if I have to wear a soup coat or a jacket,
I have a folded flag pin and I wear it
on my lapel. And it's my way to recognize those
who served, who have come before us, who are now gone,
a silent tribute in my mind, if you will, for
all those who have come before us. To me and
(06:41):
many others, these flags are a representation of their loved ones.
It's their loved one's spirit embodied in these flags. As
a family member now symbolized by this folded flag, these
flags are only given because someone else now died who
had once served in our nation's milk Harry. So when
(07:02):
people started to reach out wanting to donate their family
member's flags to me, I understood the significance of this,
and I was very humbled when this started to happen.
When people reach out to me and they want to
donate a flag like this, I always meet them in person.
I'll sit, I'll talk, I'll ask questions about their loved one.
(07:25):
Sometimes the first question I'll ask is you know why me,
why do you want to give up this particular flag
which represents your loved one.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Then I'll ask more questions.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
You know, you know where was, where was this family
member born, what branch of service were they end they
serve overseas? What did they do for work after they
left the military? You know, and where are they buried?
You know, I wanted to learn. I do want to
learn about this family member. These folks are giving up,
you know, the flag that represents their family member. I
don't take that lightly, and so I try to gather
(07:55):
as much information about that person as I can. You know,
what did they do for work, what brought them to Tucson,
if if they were in Tucson, you know, and so
forth and so on. So I just it's a very
meaningful experience to meet with these people and find out
more about a person who all I never met and
never knew anything about. But I learned so much about
(08:16):
their family and you know, what this person did for
them and for our country. So I want to learn
about this person, this family member, to understand, you know,
what they meant to others, what kind of person were they.
It's a difficult time for every every family member, but
they know that I will find a way to keep
the remembrance of their family member alive.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
They know.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
My mission is to get the American flagged up and
out in public places any place which I'm able to do,
and I knew I could not and I wouldn't let
these families down. So again this goes back to you know,
I didn't have a plan on what to do with
these flags once they started coming in, but I knew
that the opportunityould present itself if I just kept my
(09:01):
eyes and ears open. I knew that the flags needed
to be used in a way that was a was
a show of respect to the family and the service
member who was no longer with us. So these flags
were always on my mind no matter where I went.
So as I went about my days towards the end
of twenty fifteen, I find myself tending quite a few
(09:23):
University of Arizona home football games. You know, being an
alumni and living here in Tucson, there's never really a
shortage of tickets to a Wildcats home football game. It's
always a good time to attend. You know, may not
be the best or one of the top teams contending often,
but it's always a good time nonetheless. But it was
(09:44):
while attending these home football games in twenty fifteen when
it was then that I felt I had found a
connection an opportunity to put these casket flags which were
donated to me to use. Now, I know you wouldn't
(10:06):
think that a collegiate stadium would be a fitting place
for a casket flag, but I felt my idea could work.
I just needed to find a way, or I needed
to find the right person that I could contact and
ask if they could help my idea become a reality.
So within a few months after the end of the
football season, I met, strictly by chance, person who I
(10:31):
felt could take my idea to the next level to
take the casket flags which I had and utilize them
at u of a home football games. He believed in
the American flag and he knew the importance of our
military veterans.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
That person's name is James Francis.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
James Francis had contacted me and mentioned that he wanted
to donate ten American flags to my organization.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Absolutely I would accept these flags.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I asked them if you lived here in town, you know,
here in Tucson, and if so, where and you know
how could we meet? So we met early one weekend morning,
and as we met, introduced ourselves. That day and always
I asked questions so I asked, James, you know what
did he do?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
What do you do for work here in Tucson.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
James tells me that he works in the athletics department
at the University of Arizona. Even as I tell the story,
I see this light bulb, this cartoonish light bulb going
off in my head, like this bubble over my head
that this bulb goes off. And it was then, right
(11:41):
then that I realized the opportunity which I had been
waiting for to put the casket flags I had to use.
I explained to James about all the casket flags which
were donated to me and my families, who wanted these
flags to be flown again, seen again, who didn't want
their loved ones who served to be forgotten about.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
He understood already as to what the significance of these
flags were, so there was no need for me to
go into great detail about what they symbolized, what they meant.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
When I had talked to James.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I mentioned that while attending You have A football games
this past season, that I noticed that there was an
American flag flown over the large scoreboard in the south
end zone at every home football game.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
The flag, which.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Everyone stood and faced when the national anthem was played.
So I posed my question, my idea to James Francis,
which was, would the athletics department at the University of
Arizona be willing to fly a different families casket flag
atop the scoreboard at these home football games in remembrance
(12:48):
of those who served and who are no longer with us.
So I was prepared, like always, you know, I didn't
know what has really response would be. I don't know
what he would say, but you know, I guess I
had a little ammunition, if you will, you know, in
case he came back with a ham or a ha
(13:10):
or you know. I but I was prepared for a
follow up, and I felt I had a good idea.
But believe it or not, not everyone agrees with my
great ideas that I've come to find out.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
But I thought I had a good idea.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And it's not often I need to convince people that
my flag ideas are good. But I'm always always prepared
for that no or yeah, I'll get back to you,
or some hesitation. But there was no need for a
follow up. Once James gave me his answer right then,
right there, right on the spot as he donated his
(13:43):
flags to me. He says, Charlie, not only will the
athletics department do it, I will make sure that the
family who attends the games has four tickets, a parking pass,
and will be on the field for the national anthem.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I'm like, Jane, are you kidding me? Just like that?
Like you don't need to Absolutely, he says.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
We'll work out the logistics prior to the season starting,
but absolutely, let's do this. I accepted the flags which
he had brought for me that day, gave him my thanks,
and I went back home and I immediately started reaching
out to some of the families who had gifted me
one of their loved ones flags. I would explain to
the family that this was a silent nod, if you will,
(14:28):
by the UFA Athletics department. There would be no big
media publicity by the university, nothing to be shown up
on the scoreboard during the game, and no form of
acknowledgment over the stadium's public address system. I'm able now
to send the tickets to these families via electronic devices.
Right before COVID, we used to get hard tickets, and
(14:50):
now COVID has made that a thing of the past.
So everything now is done digitally, so I'm able to
send these tickets now to the family members and I
often get a respon on back. And one of the
questions often asked of me by the families who are
given the game tickets for game day is if I'll
be there in attendance with them, I'll be at the game.
(15:11):
And my response from day one has always been no,
I won't be there. I won't be attending.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
They'll ask me why not, why I won't be going,
and I tell them it's simple.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I tell them that for this program, with this agreement
that I have with the UA, this partnership between the
U of A and Flags for the flag Liss, it's
about the flag. It's about their family member. It's for
the families who attend to be able to look at
that flag above the scoreboard with you know, forty thousand
people looking at that same flag and singing the national anthem.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It's not meant for.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Me to attend a game or about me this particular moment,
this this moment in time or their history. It's about
them and their loved one. It's a moment I feel
that should be for the family. Some way for me
to get into a game or be a part of
what I feel is a private moment between family members
(16:08):
in retrospect. So I don't go to these games, and
let me just break down to you how this works.
So there are really two parts on game days where
the family can be present. The first part is that
they're able to be present when the flag is raised
early in the mornings on game day.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Right, So sometimes game kickoffs are four or five six o'clock.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Sometimes early on because the heat, and so we'll often
raise the flag up over the scoreboard around nine am
that morning. The family meets me and my buddy Mike Haregrowth,
who is head of facilities at the athletics department, and
we go on the field and the family can watch us.
Mike goes up inside the scoreboard, the very top and
(16:53):
he raises the flag up.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
What's cool about this is that there's no one around.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
There's no media, there's no fans, there's no players, nothing,
no camera crew, nothing. It's just it's really quiet at
that time around the stadium. And like I said, there's
no band, no, it's just the family and their flag.
And then they're watching it go up for the first
time you know families who have you know, some senior
(17:23):
age folks.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I've had some families who've.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Had a ninety year old grandfather, you know, who's maybe
a little uneasy on their feet, or they can't walk
too well, and they're worried about going to the game
because of all the people. And go, no problem. Meet
me at the field at nine am the morning of
the game. Grandpa will be escorted right to the field
and can walk on. No one's there, right, you know
(17:49):
glot of times, well, you know, my grandpa and my grandma,
they're in bed by four o'clock, so that anything after two,
no problem. Again, it goes back to when I started
my program. I wanted it so that when I approached
a business, or I approached anyone who had an empty flagpole,
that I could provide all the services needed so that
(18:11):
they wouldn't have to do anything. It'd be very difficult
to say, no, I don't want this flag I don't
want this flagpole. Re So, if you're telling me grandpa's
a little old or grandma or someone's little LUNs, no problem.
You can come at nine am, not a soul around,
and you could be there quietly to watch this flag
go up. Now you don't have to go to the game.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
The second part of this is that right before kickoff
on the day of the game or the night of
the family is greeted by a member of the athletics department.
It's usually a young intern, and they're escorted from their
seats down onto the playing field.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
There the family is present for the national.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Anthem and when the players come out of the tunnel
when on the field, right, and if you've ever seen
like most football, big sporting, it's right, there's fireworks, there's a.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Lot of hooplaw. So the families really enjoy that part.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Right, you're on the field when a team comes running
out of the tunnel, they're right there, the sound of
the fire's going off, and then they're on the field
for the national anthem. And so you know, I'm not there.
I mean, I can picture in my mind what it
must look like or feel like. But I've reached out
to some of the folks in the athletics department who
(19:28):
are on the field with the family when the anthem
takes place, and I say, you.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Know, what's it like.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
What's the reaction either for you or the family, And
they told me you know, Charlie and let the family
have as privacy because oftentime the family is so emotional
and most are crying by being a part of this moment.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And as I mentioned before, oftentimes.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
You'll have forty to fifty thousand people all standing and
looking at their loved one's flag and seeing our nation,
our niche anthem. As you can imagine, it's a very
very moving moment for the family. So once the anthem
is concluded, the family will remain on the field just
after the kickoff and they are escorted back to their
(20:15):
seats where they can sit and enjoy the rest of
the game. And I too, have spoken with some of
the families after they've attended a game and asked them
how it went right. I always want to make sure logistically,
did it go okay? Did people show up where they
were supposed to be? Was it everything I explained to you,
or you know how you thought. They've all had the
(20:36):
same response. And that's when we looked upon that flag.
As everyone was standing facing the flag and singing the
national anthem, I could see visions of my family member
kind of fading in and out of the flag itself.
They said it was it's almost like a slideshow taking place.
(20:58):
You know, you're looking at the flag and as the
wind is you know, blowing it, you get these different
visions of your family member.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
You know, it's like this slide show going across the flag, and.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
They just tell me how wonderful it was to be
part of such a special moment noneor of their loved one.
And it's as if their family members seeing atop the
scoreboard not necessarily the American flag, you know, they say
it's like this blur of the American flag of their
family member going back and forth when they're looking at it.
(21:36):
So when the season is over, I collect the flags
which flew the previous season and they're all noted so
I know which game they were part of. And oftentimes
I'll take those flags and I'll put them inside a
shadow box, which I've explained previously. You know, a shadow
box is a hard wooden you know, walnut or cherry
(21:57):
wood case glass front. You put the flag again sealed
the back shadow box, and I'll put a tab on
the front. You know that I'll say, you know, this
flag flew over Arizona Stadium on such and such a
date in honor of you. Know, staff, sergeant, corporal, private, whoever,
and what branch of service they were in. I've taken
(22:18):
these flags and I've put them in banks.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
There are some banks in town that have them in
their lobby.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I've given them to doctors that I know to put
up in their offices for the public to see. And
even the local Starbucks has asked me for one to
place inside. I guess they have like a veteran's location
here in town, so they wanted one of these flags
for their Starbucks location. So when families donate their flags
(22:46):
to me, they're doing so in hopes of having this
flag fly someplace it could be seen by many, or
put to you some way so that their loved one
will be out and about and display if you will,
you know, like I said previously, not sitting in their
claws that are a closed drawer someplace. By taking them
in the shadow boxes, placing them out in about in
the community, that's.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
What people want.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
That's what people were expecting, and I try to give
that to them. As far as I'm aware of this,
the University of Arizona is the only university in the
country that does such a thing that I'm aware of.
Been wrong before. But nowhere have I seen anywhere any
place where an organization lies a different American flag.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
In honor of.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Veterans, veterans who have passed on and have the families
on them. It may happen, may happen maybe for one
game or spect. This has been going on now for
eight years, nine years. I've been doing this, so it's
pretty cool, you know. That's why I say it's probably
one of the best partnerships in collegiate athletic because it
(24:00):
could be the only partnership that I'm aware of that
does this, you know, and I would like to see
It'd be cool if it could go across the country.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
In some way. You know.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
In my mind, it costs the universities absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yet the impact on the family.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And on the community who is involved with the program
that can't be measured, you know, that impact that they have.
And again I remind you that all this came about,
like most most things which have happened in my life
over the past ten years, because someone shared the appreciation
and respect of the American flag that I had and
(24:42):
they knew that they could help. James Francis was some
of the community who I had never met before twenty fifteen.
Yet because of his love of country, the respect he
has for the military community, and see an article about
an organization that shared the same values, we have a partnership,
Like Noah, there a partnership in my mind that is
impact countless people such.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
A meaningful way.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
At the end of each football season, I sit down
and I write a note to James and Mike, kind
of old school like that, if you will.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
When it comes to handwritten.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Notes, you know, I to this day I still write
a handwritten Christmas card, or I'll write a thank you
note often almost every time if I can, and then
not one of those computer generated ones where I'll just write, Hey,
Merry Christmas. Art like, I will put pen to paper
and I will write a thank you note. At the
end of every season, I write a thank you note
(25:35):
to each of them because they're you know, James isn't
necessarily there to see all the facets of what's happening.
You know, he makes it work, and he he makes
sure people are where they're supposed to be. But I
want to try to convey to both of them my
gratitude for them having the faith in me to put
this together.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
But more importantly, I.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Want to remind them of the impact this collaboration has
had on so many different people throughout the season. James
doesn't see it, but it's there. James and the athletics
department University provide the tickets and trusting me to find
the families and community members to attend and take part
(26:14):
in these memorable moments.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And I just want both of them.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
To know how important it is what they do and
how thankful the guests are who attend these games.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
If you want to engage with me outside of the podcast,
head over.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
To my social media page on Facebook and that's Flags
for the Flag Lists. You could see some more stories,
some more photos that I've taken over the years. Yeah,
and join in on the group if you have any comments,
any questions, if you've got a story about a flag
or a family member who served.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Let me know.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
You know, if we could form a partnership of some sort,
that'd be great. But if you want to get a
hold of me, you can find me at Flags for
the Flagless on Facebook and I'll look forward to hearing
from you until next time.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Thank you, Thank you for joining us on this episode
of Flags for the Flagless. This episode was produced by
Charlie Foley, Doug Levy, and Jason Wykeel To listen to
(27:36):
Charlie's newest episodes, please download and subscribe through your favorite
podcast service, and if you like the show enough, leave
a review.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Your thoughts would greatly be appreciated.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Flags for the Flagless United Stories of America is proudly
produced and distributed by the Eight Side Network
For most of you listening today, know that the last
few of my podcasts have been pretty inspirational and a
few have even covered some history, while others have given
you some insight as to how a family who has
had someone serve in the military, you know how that
family reflects upon the American flag after that level one
(00:28):
has passed away. Today, I want to tell you a
story which is about opportunity and community and how these
two things come together to make one of the best partnerships,
in my opinion, in all of collegiate athletics.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
If you listen to.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Some of my previous podcast you know the background out
of my organization, they're already aware. Then what really brings
all of these flag events together is that I'm constantly
looking for opportunities within my community bring more American flags
to be placed. I'm not just always looking within my community,
though I'm doing so along my travels right I'm looking
(01:09):
for opportunities to connect a flag with a new home
or a new location. Some of these locations I've made
it a point to make sure that a flag goes up,
while at other times it just so happens to come about.
You know, when I connect with someone or connect with
the right folks. There's flags going up that I didn't
anticipate or didn't identify. So opportunity plays a big role
(01:33):
in this. You know, there's often times where I may
not know right away what I might do with multiple
flags which are donated to me, or what I'll do
with a rather large.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Flag that someone has given me.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I just know that the opportunity for their use it'll
only be a matter of time. I just need to
keep my eyes and my ears open and an opportunity
I know will present itself. And a good example of
this is a flag which was recently gifted to me.
It's a rather large one. It's twelve feet high by
fourteen feet long, which is a pretty good sized flag.
(02:13):
You know, I currently have no plans on how it'll
be utilized, but I know that in time, an opportunity
will present itself. I'm not going to turn down and
offer just because I may not know what I'm going
to do with it. But I know that if I'm
patient and wait, that flag and I will find its purpose.
So having provided you now with some of you know,
(02:35):
some more background on how I operate when being presented
with flags that I don't know how to be utilized
right away.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
I want to take you back to July of twenty fifteen.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
It was in July twenty fifteen when I had a
large event which I spoke of in a previous podcast,
where I had put together thirteen groups to raise up
thirteen different flags all the same time around Tucson. We
have listened to that previous podcast. It's how Barbie's Flag,
and it has to do with this particular event I'm
referring to, which is one July fourth that year. With
(03:09):
the ample media coverage that particular flag event generated, I
was started to get some contacts and people reaching out
to me, people from all over Tucson who I didn't
know yet, all of whom shared the same story. These
families that contacted me told me that they had an
American flag which was given to them by the US
government because a family member of THEIRS who once had
(03:32):
served in the military had now passed away. These families
would tell me that the flag, which was given to
them in honor of their family member, was now either
just sitting in a closet gathering dust, or it was
put away an addresser drawer in an empty bedroom where
no one would see them. You know, these flags were
given to families when maybe their grandpa served during the
(03:55):
nineteen forties, or a brother who served in Vietnam, or
someone's husband who had once served in the South Pacific.
Those folks were now gone and all these families had
left now was this American flag which was given to them.
These families had read about my program and various media outlets,
and then they approached me and had the same idea,
(04:18):
and that was that they would like to donate their
family member's casket flag to me so that it will
fly again, it'll be seen by others to remember that
their loved one who served the military will not be forgotten.
All these folks would tell me that the family member
who this flag represents, they would want their flag to
(04:40):
be out. They would want it up flying or be seen.
They wouldn't want it to be put away somewhere and forgotten.
About these flags which I speak of, The flags which
various families wanted to donate are often referred to as
casket flags or coffin flags. These particular flags are always
made of cotton and they measure five and a half
(05:01):
feet tall by nine feet long. Oftentimes these flags are
used to cover the caskets of those family members who
served in the military.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
And have now passed away.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
These flags are then removed from atop the casket, folded
into a triangle, and then given to the next of
kin as their family members laid to rest. So you
could say that oftentimes these particular flags are the last
thing to touch these veterans, these loved ones before they
are buried. Very important to recognize the significance of these
(05:36):
coffin flags in their triangle fold when you see them
firmly starch cotton flag folded into a triangle. If you
look around, you'll notice that the symbol or image of
a folded triangle flag is being used currently by very
large nonprofit organization. And you would also see that at
(05:57):
times TV sport commentators have worn a folded flagpin on
their lapels during the broadcast of some big sporting event.
There's also a relatively new song entitled Folded Flag by
Aaron Lewis, which is pretty good, if I must say,
if you listen closely to the words of that song,
it sums up pretty much when I'm explaining here, so
(06:19):
I will always you know when I'm out and about
if I have to wear a soup coat or a jacket,
I have a folded flag pin and I wear it
on my lapel. And it's my way to recognize those
who served, who have come before us, who are now gone,
a silent tribute in my mind, if you will, for
all those who have come before us. To me and
(06:41):
many others, these flags are a representation of their loved ones.
It's their loved one's spirit embodied in these flags. As
a family member now symbolized by this folded flag, these
flags are only given because someone else now died who
had once served in our nation's milk Harry. So when
(07:02):
people started to reach out wanting to donate their family
member's flags to me, I understood the significance of this,
and I was very humbled when this started to happen.
When people reach out to me and they want to
donate a flag like this, I always meet them in person.
I'll sit, I'll talk, I'll ask questions about their loved one.
(07:25):
Sometimes the first question I'll ask is you know why me,
why do you want to give up this particular flag
which represents your loved one.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Then I'll ask more questions.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
You know, you know where was, where was this family
member born, what branch of service were they end they
serve overseas? What did they do for work after they
left the military? You know, and where are they buried?
You know, I wanted to learn. I do want to
learn about this family member. These folks are giving up,
you know, the flag that represents their family member. I
don't take that lightly, and so I try to gather
(07:55):
as much information about that person as I can. You know,
what did they do for work, what brought them to Tucson,
if if they were in Tucson, you know, and so
forth and so on. So I just it's a very
meaningful experience to meet with these people and find out
more about a person who all I never met and
never knew anything about. But I learned so much about
(08:16):
their family and you know, what this person did for
them and for our country. So I want to learn
about this person, this family member, to understand, you know,
what they meant to others, what kind of person were they.
It's a difficult time for every every family member, but
they know that I will find a way to keep
the remembrance of their family member alive.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
They know.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
My mission is to get the American flagged up and
out in public places any place which I'm able to do,
and I knew I could not and I wouldn't let
these families down. So again this goes back to you know,
I didn't have a plan on what to do with
these flags once they started coming in, but I knew
that the opportunityould present itself if I just kept my
(09:01):
eyes and ears open. I knew that the flags needed
to be used in a way that was a was
a show of respect to the family and the service
member who was no longer with us. So these flags
were always on my mind no matter where I went.
So as I went about my days towards the end
of twenty fifteen, I find myself tending quite a few
(09:23):
University of Arizona home football games. You know, being an
alumni and living here in Tucson, there's never really a
shortage of tickets to a Wildcats home football game. It's
always a good time to attend. You know, may not
be the best or one of the top teams contending often,
but it's always a good time nonetheless. But it was
(09:44):
while attending these home football games in twenty fifteen when
it was then that I felt I had found a
connection an opportunity to put these casket flags which were
donated to me to use. Now, I know you wouldn't
(10:06):
think that a collegiate stadium would be a fitting place
for a casket flag, but I felt my idea could work.
I just needed to find a way, or I needed
to find the right person that I could contact and
ask if they could help my idea become a reality.
So within a few months after the end of the
football season, I met, strictly by chance, person who I
(10:31):
felt could take my idea to the next level to
take the casket flags which I had and utilize them
at u of a home football games. He believed in
the American flag and he knew the importance of our
military veterans.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
That person's name is James Francis.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
James Francis had contacted me and mentioned that he wanted
to donate ten American flags to my organization.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Absolutely I would accept these flags.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I asked them if you lived here in town, you know,
here in Tucson, and if so, where and you know
how could we meet? So we met early one weekend morning,
and as we met, introduced ourselves. That day and always
I asked questions so I asked, James, you know what
did he do?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
What do you do for work here in Tucson.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
James tells me that he works in the athletics department
at the University of Arizona. Even as I tell the story,
I see this light bulb, this cartoonish light bulb going
off in my head, like this bubble over my head
that this bulb goes off. And it was then, right
(11:41):
then that I realized the opportunity which I had been
waiting for to put the casket flags I had to use.
I explained to James about all the casket flags which
were donated to me and my families, who wanted these
flags to be flown again, seen again, who didn't want
their loved ones who served to be forgotten about.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Got it.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
He understood already as to what the significance of these
flags were, so there was no need for me to
go into great detail about what they symbolized, what they meant.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
When I had talked to James.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
I mentioned that while attending You have A football games
this past season, that I noticed that there was an
American flag flown over the large scoreboard in the south
end zone at every home football game.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
The flag, which.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Everyone stood and faced when the national anthem was played.
So I posed my question, my idea to James Francis,
which was, would the athletics department at the University of
Arizona be willing to fly a different families casket flag
atop the scoreboard at these home football games in remembrance
(12:48):
of those who served and who are no longer with us.
So I was prepared, like always, you know, I didn't
know what has really response would be. I don't know
what he would say, but you know, I guess I
had a little ammunition, if you will, you know, in
case he came back with a ham or a ha
(13:10):
or you know. I but I was prepared for a
follow up, and I felt I had a good idea.
But believe it or not, not everyone agrees with my
great ideas that I've come to find out.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
But I thought I had a good idea.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
And it's not often I need to convince people that
my flag ideas are good. But I'm always always prepared
for that no or yeah, I'll get back to you,
or some hesitation. But there was no need for a
follow up. Once James gave me his answer right then,
right there, right on the spot as he donated his
(13:43):
flags to me. He says, Charlie, not only will the
athletics department do it, I will make sure that the
family who attends the games has four tickets, a parking pass,
and will be on the field for the national anthem.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
I'm like, Jane, are you kidding me? Just like that?
Like you don't need to Absolutely, he says.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
We'll work out the logistics prior to the season starting,
but absolutely, let's do this. I accepted the flags which
he had brought for me that day, gave him my thanks,
and I went back home and I immediately started reaching
out to some of the families who had gifted me
one of their loved ones flags. I would explain to
the family that this was a silent nod, if you will,
(14:28):
by the UFA Athletics department. There would be no big
media publicity by the university, nothing to be shown up
on the scoreboard during the game, and no form of
acknowledgment over the stadium's public address system. I'm able now
to send the tickets to these families via electronic devices.
Right before COVID, we used to get hard tickets, and
(14:50):
now COVID has made that a thing of the past.
So everything now is done digitally, so I'm able to
send these tickets now to the family members and I
often get a respon on back. And one of the
questions often asked of me by the families who are
given the game tickets for game day is if I'll
be there in attendance with them, I'll be at the game.
(15:11):
And my response from day one has always been no,
I won't be there. I won't be attending.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
They'll ask me why not, why I won't be going,
and I tell them it's simple.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
I tell them that for this program, with this agreement
that I have with the UA, this partnership between the
U of A and Flags for the flag Liss, it's
about the flag. It's about their family member. It's for
the families who attend to be able to look at
that flag above the scoreboard with you know, forty thousand
people looking at that same flag and singing the national anthem.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It's not meant for.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Me to attend a game or about me this particular moment,
this this moment in time or their history. It's about
them and their loved one. It's a moment I feel
that should be for the family. Some way for me
to get into a game or be a part of
what I feel is a private moment between family members
(16:08):
in retrospect. So I don't go to these games, and
let me just break down to you how this works.
So there are really two parts on game days where
the family can be present. The first part is that
they're able to be present when the flag is raised
early in the mornings on game day.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Right, So sometimes game kickoffs are four or five six o'clock.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
Sometimes early on because the heat, and so we'll often
raise the flag up over the scoreboard around nine am
that morning. The family meets me and my buddy Mike Haregrowth,
who is head of facilities at the athletics department, and
we go on the field and the family can watch us.
Mike goes up inside the scoreboard, the very top and
(16:53):
he raises the flag up.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
What's cool about this is that there's no one around.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
There's no media, there's no fans, there's no players, nothing,
no camera crew, nothing. It's just it's really quiet at
that time around the stadium. And like I said, there's
no band, no, it's just the family and their flag.
And then they're watching it go up for the first
time you know families who have you know, some senior
(17:23):
age folks.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
I've had some families who've.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Had a ninety year old grandfather, you know, who's maybe
a little uneasy on their feet, or they can't walk
too well, and they're worried about going to the game
because of all the people. And go, no problem. Meet
me at the field at nine am the morning of
the game. Grandpa will be escorted right to the field
and can walk on. No one's there, right, you know
(17:49):
glot of times, well, you know, my grandpa and my grandma,
they're in bed by four o'clock, so that anything after two,
no problem. Again, it goes back to when I started
my program. I wanted it so that when I approached
a business, or I approached anyone who had an empty flagpole,
that I could provide all the services needed so that
(18:11):
they wouldn't have to do anything. It'd be very difficult
to say, no, I don't want this flag I don't
want this flagpole. Re So, if you're telling me grandpa's
a little old or grandma or someone's little LUNs, no problem.
You can come at nine am, not a soul around,
and you could be there quietly to watch this flag
go up. Now you don't have to go to the game.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Right.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
The second part of this is that right before kickoff
on the day of the game or the night of
the family is greeted by a member of the athletics department.
It's usually a young intern, and they're escorted from their
seats down onto the playing field.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
There the family is present for the national.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
Anthem and when the players come out of the tunnel
when on the field, right, and if you've ever seen
like most football, big sporting, it's right, there's fireworks, there's a.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Lot of hooplaw. So the families really enjoy that part.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Right, you're on the field when a team comes running
out of the tunnel, they're right there, the sound of
the fire's going off, and then they're on the field
for the national anthem. And so you know, I'm not there.
I mean, I can picture in my mind what it
must look like or feel like. But I've reached out
to some of the folks in the athletics department who
(19:28):
are on the field with the family when the anthem
takes place, and I say, you.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Know, what's it like.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
What's the reaction either for you or the family, And
they told me you know, Charlie and let the family
have as privacy because oftentime the family is so emotional
and most are crying by being a part of this moment.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And as I mentioned before, oftentimes.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
You'll have forty to fifty thousand people all standing and
looking at their loved one's flag and seeing our nation,
our niche anthem. As you can imagine, it's a very
very moving moment for the family. So once the anthem
is concluded, the family will remain on the field just
after the kickoff and they are escorted back to their
(20:15):
seats where they can sit and enjoy the rest of
the game. And I too, have spoken with some of
the families after they've attended a game and asked them
how it went right. I always want to make sure logistically,
did it go okay? Did people show up where they
were supposed to be? Was it everything I explained to you,
or you know how you thought. They've all had the
(20:36):
same response. And that's when we looked upon that flag.
As everyone was standing facing the flag and singing the
national anthem, I could see visions of my family member
kind of fading in and out of the flag itself.
They said it was it's almost like a slideshow taking place.
(20:58):
You know, you're looking at the flag and as the
wind is you know, blowing it, you get these different
visions of your family member.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
You know, it's like this slide show going across the flag, and.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
They just tell me how wonderful it was to be
part of such a special moment noneor of their loved one.
And it's as if their family members seeing atop the
scoreboard not necessarily the American flag, you know, they say
it's like this blur of the American flag of their
family member going back and forth when they're looking at it.
(21:36):
So when the season is over, I collect the flags
which flew the previous season and they're all noted so
I know which game they were part of. And oftentimes
I'll take those flags and I'll put them inside a
shadow box, which I've explained previously. You know, a shadow
box is a hard wooden you know, walnut or cherry
(21:57):
wood case glass front. You put the flag again sealed
the back shadow box, and I'll put a tab on
the front. You know that I'll say, you know, this
flag flew over Arizona Stadium on such and such a
date in honor of you. Know, staff, sergeant, corporal, private, whoever,
and what branch of service they were in. I've taken
(22:18):
these flags and I've put them in banks.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
There are some banks in town that have them in
their lobby.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
I've given them to doctors that I know to put
up in their offices for the public to see. And
even the local Starbucks has asked me for one to
place inside. I guess they have like a veteran's location
here in town, so they wanted one of these flags
for their Starbucks location. So when families donate their flags
(22:46):
to me, they're doing so in hopes of having this
flag fly someplace it could be seen by many, or
put to you some way so that their loved one
will be out and about and display if you will,
you know, like I said previously, not sitting in their
claws that are a closed drawer someplace. By taking them
in the shadow boxes, placing them out in about in
the community, that's.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
What people want.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
That's what people were expecting, and I try to give
that to them. As far as I'm aware of this,
the University of Arizona is the only university in the
country that does such a thing that I'm aware of.
Been wrong before. But nowhere have I seen anywhere any
place where an organization lies a different American flag.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
In honor of.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
Veterans, veterans who have passed on and have the families
on them. It may happen, may happen maybe for one
game or spect. This has been going on now for
eight years, nine years. I've been doing this, so it's
pretty cool, you know. That's why I say it's probably
one of the best partnerships in collegiate athletic because it
(24:00):
could be the only partnership that I'm aware of that
does this, you know, and I would like to see
It'd be cool if it could go across the country.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
In some way. You know.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
In my mind, it costs the universities absolutely nothing.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Yet the impact on the family.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
And on the community who is involved with the program
that can't be measured, you know, that impact that they have.
And again I remind you that all this came about,
like most most things which have happened in my life
over the past ten years, because someone shared the appreciation
and respect of the American flag that I had and
(24:42):
they knew that they could help. James Francis was some
of the community who I had never met before twenty fifteen.
Yet because of his love of country, the respect he
has for the military community, and see an article about
an organization that shared the same values, we have a partnership,
Like Noah, there a partnership in my mind that is
impact countless people such.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
A meaningful way.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
At the end of each football season, I sit down
and I write a note to James and Mike, kind
of old school like that, if you will.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
When it comes to handwritten.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Notes, you know, I to this day I still write
a handwritten Christmas card, or I'll write a thank you
note often almost every time if I can, and then
not one of those computer generated ones where I'll just write, Hey,
Merry Christmas. Art like, I will put pen to paper
and I will write a thank you note. At the
end of every season, I write a thank you note
(25:35):
to each of them because they're you know, James isn't
necessarily there to see all the facets of what's happening.
You know, he makes it work, and he he makes
sure people are where they're supposed to be. But I
want to try to convey to both of them my
gratitude for them having the faith in me to put
this together.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
But more importantly, I.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Want to remind them of the impact this collaboration has
had on so many different people throughout the season. James
doesn't see it, but it's there. James and the athletics
department University provide the tickets and trusting me to find
the families and community members to attend and take part
(26:14):
in these memorable moments.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
And I just want both of them.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
To know how important it is what they do and
how thankful the guests are who attend these games.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
If you want to engage with me outside of the podcast,
head over.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
To my social media page on Facebook and that's Flags
for the Flag Lists. You could see some more stories,
some more photos that I've taken over the years. Yeah,
and join in on the group if you have any comments,
any questions, if you've got a story about a flag
or a family member who served.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Let me know.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
You know, if we could form a partnership of some sort,
that'd be great. But if you want to get a
hold of me, you can find me at Flags for
the Flagless on Facebook and I'll look forward to hearing
from you until next time.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Thank you, Thank you for joining us on this episode
of Flags for the Flagless. This episode was produced by
Charlie Foley, Doug Levy, and Jason Wykeel To listen to
(27:36):
Charlie's newest episodes, please download and subscribe through your favorite
podcast service, and if you like the show enough, leave
a review.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Your thoughts would greatly be appreciated.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Flags for the Flagless United Stories of America is proudly
produced and distributed by the Eight Side Network
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