August 29, 2024 • 45 mins
The trial, the plea, and the ripple effects over generations for the survivors.
Want to dive deeper? Follow @flashpoint_podcast on Instagram.
For new releases and updates follow @tenderfoot.tv on social media. Subscribe to Tenderfoot+ for early access to episodes, ad-free listening, and exclusive bonuses - https://tenderfoot.tv/plus/.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Flashpoint is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free,
but for ad free listening, early access and exclusive bonuses,
subscribe to tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot com or on
Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You're listening to Flashpoint, a production of tenderfoot TV and
association with iHeartMedia. The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast.
This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be
suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Hello, You'll have reached to VI Israel and the Watchman
Outreach Ministries. If you would like to speak to aafter
game and please press three locome by the pounds. Fine,
(01:09):
good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Me I help you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hey, mister Gamon, my name is Cole. I was looking
to get more information about your church.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Oh okay, yes, sir, I'd be happy to talk to you. Cole.
How did you find out about us?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So my story is interesting and how I found out
about your church. My mother when she was really young,
when she was seventeen, she got pregnant with me. She
was actually.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Second married at that time. She was not okay.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
She was scheduled actually to have an abortion with me,
and oh wow, the abortion clinic that she was scheduled
to have the abortion in was bombed the day before
by Eric Rudolph.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Okay, well, Cole, I am, first of all, I praised
the name of Jesus Christ that you are in this world.
What a what a deliverance, I mean, what a sad
thing that had to happen for you to get here.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
But my goodness, Now, is your mother still living?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
She is, she is, We're very close.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Oh that's as marvelous. I bet she is grateful that
you're not. You're not the victim of an abortion.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Oh my goodness, you know, I really want to I
want you to know cold that I'm I'm honored to
be talking with you.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
See.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Eric Rudolph was just a very young kid when he
came through here. His mother was a widowed lady with
another brother. They had absolutely nothing.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Some friend told him, you know, that they could stop
here and probably get some help.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
Eric was a very well mannered, he was very bright,
gunk kid, and you know, we never heard one word
again until we heard of this very very alarming story.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Out of you know, out of the South late in
the nineteen nineties. That was pretty amazing. We were just,
you know, we were aghast.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
See, we've never, at any time in our history advocated
any kind of violence. We would never endorse that. We
would just simply find that to be rebolting. So we
never you know, we never in any way ever advanced
the ideas that Eric picked up. We don't know where
he got those ideas.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Let me put it this way, Cole, I would not
deny for one.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Moment that I'm very very much opposed to abortion, I'm
opposed to race mixing, and I am opposed to homosexuality.
Now what am I supposed to Knowing that he's alleged
to a bomb, abortion plenty, a homosexual bar, and a
place where they were racially mixed. I don't know where
(04:08):
he picked up all those ideas, but those are all
ideas that I personally, Cole, I can open the Bible
and show you where abortion is wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
It's murder.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Race mixing is wrong, It's against God's law. We believe
that God doesn't want any race to intermingle and change
their nature and their original design that God gave them.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It's bizarre to me that Dan Gamon doesn't see his
part in Eric Rudolf's development. In my opinion, he's probably
in denial as far as Gamon's concerned. Sure they shared ideologies,
but that's where the connection ends. Eric Rudolph was, after
all a lone wolf, right.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
And with regard to homosexuality, I need not mention to
you that the Bible is very anti homosexuality. God even
destroyed the whole city named Thodom and Gomorrah of homosexuals.
So all three of those are terrible, horrible sins, and
you know, they became the point of Eric's frustration to
(05:15):
exercise this kind of violence. And that's where I disagree
wholeheartedly with him, that he made a tragic mistake when
he went off the deep end and used violence. When
we teach God's word, his word is very clear, and
we can do it in a very Christian manner, and
that's where it stops. We don't carry it any further
(05:36):
than that.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Well, Cole, I've got an appointment I have to keep,
so I'm going to run. But you know, I want
to thank you for calling me, and I want you
to just if you don't mind.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Just remember this one little thought that I'm going to
say when I end this call.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Cole. I'm not sure what caused you to want to
call this number and talk to me, but I'm wondering if.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
There was a higher power that was directing you, and
will call that higher power the God who created of
an an earth. You might want to think about coming
to visit us and learn more about us before you.
You know, weigh in heavily on judging. And don't you
find it a little bit interesting that your life was
(06:29):
spared from a bullish and clinic. Isn't that amazing that
you came within one day.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Of not being here.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I have a really hard time believing that Dan Gamon
had no direct connection to Eric Rudolf or what motivated
him to become a terrorist. But here's the thing. I
do know these so called lone wolves, somewhere down the line,
they're always part of a pack, whether they know it
or not. I can't say precisely when and where Eric
(07:03):
Rudolf began to think of himself as an operative in
a movement, a soldier in the army of God. But
at a certain point he knew damn well what he
was doing, why he was doing it, and how it
would be perceived. He said it point blank after his
capture quote. The hope was that my actions would push
(07:27):
other pro lifers and patriots to bridge the gap between
their rhetoric and their actions. These attacks were not part
of some personal vendetta against abortionists, homosexuals, or government agents.
They were acts of war aimed at damaging, undermining, and
ultimately overthrowing the liberal establishment in America. When I heard
(07:50):
they were bringing the Summer Olympics to Atlanta, I thought
it would make the perfect target. Episode seven, When Ideas
(08:16):
Become Actions.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
This morning, at four point thirty in the morning, an
alert Murphy police officer noticed something unusual going on behind
the Valley Village shopping center here in Murphy. He investigated,
He called for backup, and ultimately arrested Eric Robert Rudolph
at about four point thirty am this morning.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
The trial of Eric Rudolph, set to determine the consequences
for his acts of terror, was originally scheduled for August fourth,
two thousand and four. Federal Judge Lynnwood Smith delayed the
start by a year, stating the sheer volume of discovery
that still must be organized and assimilated by Defense Council
is staggering.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
As you know, he's charged in connection with the bombings
of the Centennial Park, the Sandy Ridge Professional Center office building,
and the double bombings of the other Side Lounge in
midtown Atlanta. The death of a police officer in Alabama resulted,
also the death of a person in Atlanta, and about
(09:22):
one hundred and fifty injuries resulted from these bombings.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Despite the strong evidence connecting him to these horrifying crimes,
he still had a right to a full thread of defense.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
Richard to this day is one of my best friends.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
This again is former US Attorney Doug Jones. His term
as US attorney had ended by the time of Rudolph's capture,
but he still attended many of the proceedings.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
I just know the way Richard Jeffy handles his clients.
He doesn't make judgments own people at all, and his job,
he understands, as a defense lawyer, is to get to
know the client, get to know the cases put the
government to their burden. He believes that every client, regardless
(10:12):
of the circumstance, deserves the top notch defense. He can
endure their trust regardless and I can assure you without
having sat through any of their conversations or without Richard
talking to me about it. They didn't talk about the politics.
Richard let him know that he was his advocate, and
(10:35):
that probably let him know that the political aspect of this,
while the government may do X, it doesn't matter to him.
He has a job and he wants to know everything
about the client. He wants to understand the facts, and
he just has that mannerism as good as any lawyer
that I've ever seen that does criminal defense work.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
It took me months to nail down a time to
speak with Richard Jaffey, but I finally made the drive
to Birmingham to sit down with him. With the ac
blasting on a hot summer day, we settled into what
would have been the dining room in a two story
Tudor style home that had been converted into his law office.
Speaker 8 (11:16):
My faith in the justice system today is certainly not
what it was when I started practicing law, which was
forty five years ago. I think that when the power
of government manifests itself, if there aren't people, mainly lawyers,
(11:36):
willing to stand up and protect the helpless and those
individuals that don't have power, then the democracy as we
know it will completely evaporate.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Richard's colleagues often refer to him as Atticus Finch, the
protagonist from Taquilla Mockingbird. In the novel Atticust defends a
black man falsely accused of rape in the small town
of may coom, Alabama, during the Great Depression. As is
the case for many lawyers in the South, the character
of Atticus Finch served as an influence in Richard's decision
(12:14):
to become a defense attorney to do the work of
representing marginalized or seemingly guilty defendants.
Speaker 8 (12:21):
In representing both the apparently innocent and the apparently guilty,
our ethical responsibilities to provide the most zealous representation we're
capable of are the same. The scariest thing is to
represent someone that is apparently or obviously innocent and where
(12:44):
there is a significant lack of proof, in knowing that
if we have to go to trial and we lose,
it's basically hard to forget.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I asked Jaffe how the opportunity to represent Rudolph even
came to him.
Speaker 8 (13:00):
Well, I was in the federal courtroom of Judge Lindwood Smith,
an excellent judge, and I was representing, along with my team,
a lawyer charged with witness tampering, and we were arguing
over discovery when suddenly the assistant of Judge Smith came
(13:26):
up to him and whispered in his ear. He recessed
abruptly and came back, and then we learned that Eric
Rudolph had been arrested.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Eric Rudolph was staring down a potential death penalty sentence.
At this point, of the fifty people he had defended
who were facing the death penalty, none had been executed.
Speaker 8 (14:05):
To represent somebody for a federal death penalty crime, the
court is obligated to a point what's called learned counsel,
and that means someone who is skilled in death penalty,
federal death penalty work and trained.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Jeffy recalls his friend and colleague, Bruce Gardner, nudging the
judge as at that time Alabama had only one such
qualified lawyer.
Speaker 8 (14:32):
So we finished the hearing in the case was continued,
and Bruce walked up to Judge Smith and said, you
don't need to keep looking for another lawyer. The best
person in the country you could appoint is sitting right
over there, pointing to me. I'm unabashedly against the death penalty.
(14:53):
The death penalty doesn't work, meaning it's provably not a
deterrent to others. It's also inhumane, super expensive, five times
as expensive to try someone for a death penalty case
then house them for their entire life, even if their teens.
Speaker 9 (15:21):
Take me through the first.
Speaker 8 (15:22):
StAst well, the first day is when Judge Smith said
he was appointing me as the lead lawyer, and he
instructed me to go over and meet with Eric at
the Jefferson County Jail. And his concern was whether Eric
would accept me being Jewish, and he also wondered how
(15:44):
I would interface with Eric and how I would feel
about it.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Eric Rudolph is a loud and proud anti Semite, a
Holocaust denier who called the television the electric Jew. Richard
Jeffey is a Jewish man. I asked him how he
was able to navigate that.
Speaker 8 (16:03):
I went over and met with Eric at the Jefferson
County Jail. He wasn't in the normal cell with others.
He had his own block practically, and he was watching
himself on TV. When I walked in and introduced myself
and we had a very nice discussion. It wasn't that long,
(16:23):
less than an hour, and he basically said that was
a long time ago. I've evolved since then. That was
what I said many years ago, is not how I
feel and who I am today. And I went back
and reported that Judge Smith the second day he was here,
that was the arraignment, and the arraignment's really a formality
(16:47):
where someone pleads not guilty or guilty. They couldn't plead
guilty if they wanted to. It's a formality in that sense,
but from a legal perspective, the judge gets a formal
not guilty plea and explains the rights of the particular
defendant and the process. There was so much media there
(17:10):
that I couldn't really get in even though I got
there early. Neither I nor my team could get in
the courthouse because it was just that crowded.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Doug Jones was also at the arraignment.
Speaker 7 (17:23):
I called the US Marshall said I really want to
get in that courtroom. So I was able to sit
in the jury box, and you could just from my standpoint,
it was a cold.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Look.
Speaker 7 (17:37):
There was just something and I've told people since that
time that you just don't see a soul behind those
dark eyes of his, that he was proud of what
he did. Do you just know he had a mission.
He was proud of what he did, and he would
do it over if he had to.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I asked Richard Jaffee what his first impressions were of
Eric Rudolph.
Speaker 8 (18:03):
Well, Eric had been in hiding for five and a
half years, so he really hadn't had a meaningful conversation
with anyone, and every single day he was in hiding
was a day that he was solely focused on surviving.
(18:24):
So suddenly he's instead of having the ability to watch
the FBI because he had three different camps that he constructed,
he was now confined in a jail cell, facing the
death penalty. Imagine the culture shock he was experiencing. The
(18:46):
interesting thing is that when he was arrested, he gave
his real name after he initially didn't. And I had
the feeling, and based on some of my discussions with him,
that he was just kind of tired of that life.
I can't imagine what it'd be like trying to survive,
to sleep there and wake up there and find food
(19:11):
and not injure yourself without medical treatment, and always be
wondering am I going to get caught? And will I
be killed on site? But I never found Eric to
be remorseful when it came to the subject of abortion,
because he felt that strongly about it that in fact,
(19:36):
to him, it was war, and Eric believed that in
war the rules are different, and that this was an
attack on babies, on people, and that he was called
to take action to do something about it. Obviously, if
(19:59):
everyone un thought that way, we would have no society,
we would have no civilization, we have no existence because
we'd all be killing each other. But Eric felt that
strongly about the situation.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Both Jaffie and Jones ultimately reached the same conclusion in
their thinking and in their impressions of Rudolph. They believed
he was on a mission, one that he felt strongly about,
and he carried out that mission without remorse. But as
the prosecutor, Doug Jones's singular job would have been to convict,
(20:42):
to paint the portrait of a monster, while as a
defense attorney, Jaffe's job, in addition to calling the evidence
into question, was to find the beating heart inside this
human being and present it to the jury. That is,
without question, the most effective way to avoid a sentence.
Speaker 8 (21:02):
My focus was to get to know him, not to
challenge him and build up a rapport and a respect
and clearly one hundred percent I did because when there
was a conflict between the two factions of teams, Eric
chose me and my team.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
This was an extremely high profile case, but aside from that,
it was only different from other cases by virtue of
the fact that it was a death penalty case. And
death penalty cases are notoriously hard to win in any prosecution,
even if the defendant has essentially been found guilty in
the court of public opinion. The burden of proof in
(21:46):
this case required clear and convincing evidence, and it also
required a unanimous verdict. The possibility of a hung jury
was a very real scenario.
Speaker 8 (21:58):
So there were different scenarios in play, and as a lawyer,
you don't reach any conclusions. And I think that's one
of the problems that sometimes law enforcement gets into, is
what we call rush to judgment. The perfect example is
Richard Jewel. So as lawyers, the last thing we wanted
(22:21):
to do was exclude any hypothesis that was reasonable.
Speaker 10 (22:32):
So I went down a federal courthouse along with the
other victims of other bombings.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
At a certain point in the process, victims from each
of the bombings were brought in to provide personal statements
about the crimes. They included Atlanta radio host Rob Stadler,
who was at the Sandy Springs clinic bombing with his
twin girls.
Speaker 10 (22:52):
There was a gentleman who was a first responder, and
he showed me the shrapnel that's still in his leg.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
The victims were given the chance to read these statements
to the courtroom and Eric Rudolph directly. Victim statements are
a necessary part of the judicial process to allow the
victims to describe the impacts of the crimes, which assists
the judge and sentencing. Rob at first was hesitant to
provide one. He was ready to be done with that
chapter of his life. But he was told that nobody
(23:23):
else from the Sandy Springs bombing was willing to give
a victim statement, so he took on that responsibility.
Speaker 10 (23:30):
So it was my turn to talk, and I spent
most of the time speaking on behalf of the others
who were there, the first responders and the federal relations, etc.
And spoke how they did such a great job after
it happened. But I looked at Rudolph and I said,
(23:52):
you know what I'm going to do, Eric, after this,
I'm going to go home. I'm going to pick up
my girls and we're going to do homework. I go,
that's a privilege. You're never going to have the privilege
of having your own family, and I don't feel sorry
for you. It was really interesting at the end when
(24:13):
they shackled him and took him out. That was the
first time that I saw an expression of fear. He
made his own help. Now he's going to have to
live in it.
Speaker 11 (24:32):
I still remember being on the back row.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Former US Attorney Kent Alexander, the lead law enforcement officer
for the Olympic Park bombing who was no longer on
the case, was also there in the courtroom.
Speaker 11 (24:44):
I didn't just sit on the back row, but I
sat on top of the back of the bench because
I wanted to eyeball Eric Rudolf. I really wanted to
see who this guy was, and he was remarkably unimpressive
at that point. He was pale as could be. He
was overwakes kept feeding him in the jail in Birmingham.
He just to me looked like this troll. I kept
(25:05):
expecting to hear something or see something, though I knew
it's rare that defendants say anything other than not guilty
and you go from there. But for me, it was
important to be there just by way of closure. That
also was the last time I saw Richard Jewel, who
was there with his wife Dana. I ran into them
right outside the courtroom. Even then, a lot of the
(25:26):
agents were starting to back away from him as if
he had done something wrong because there was a lot
of bad blood during the process, with his defence team
criticizing the FBI. But I thought it was fitting that.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Richard was there.
Speaker 11 (25:42):
He said, I've been waiting a long time for this day,
such a long time. He had to sit in a
remote room with his wife to watch everything on video.
His wife told me that she was happy because she
really thinks he would have just jumped over the bench
and attacked the guy, because for him'd say it was
a life altering experience. This bombing would be unbelievable understatement.
(26:05):
It ultimately took a lot of years off his life
because he died at age forty four of a heart attack.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Emily Lyons, the nurse who bore the full force of
the bombing at the Alabama abortion clinic, also attended some
of the proceedings and had the chance to get a
look at Rudolph beforehand outside the courtroom.
Speaker 12 (26:25):
The closest I ever got to him. We were in Huntsville,
and we were standing in a room with a door
that had two pieces of glass up at the top,
like a swing door. And they brought him back through
the hallway. And when he passed in from those windows,
he turned and looked at me. There was no expression, nothing,
It was just blackness avoid in his eyes. He didn't care,
(26:50):
He didn't I don't think he knew who I was,
but sure he could just tell.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Emily lost one eye with the other severely damaged. Her
hand was mangled, and a gaping wound in her abdomen
required the removal of ten inches of her intestines. Most
of the flesh was blown off her legs and hands.
She suffered severe burns, a shattered leg, and shrapnel and
nails remain embedded in her body. Confined to a wheelchair.
(27:24):
Ever since the bomb, Emily has endured unimaginable pain and suffering.
Yet when she heard that Eric Rudolf was captured, she
had one immediate response. She wanted to confront him face
to face.
Speaker 12 (27:39):
And I got to tell him in court what I thought.
I let him know that he didn't win that day.
He wanted people to die. But you didn't silence me.
You thought you were going to do me in that day,
but you were mistaken, and you're never going to see
the light of day like I will. I'll be able
(28:01):
to see. I'll be able to do things that you
will never be able to do again. I can enjoy
a good dinner somewhere.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I will.
Speaker 12 (28:12):
You didn't kill me, and you didn't silence me. You
did the complete opposite. You made my voice up hear.
You made my brain be more active with the issue.
Judge didn't like it. Lawyer didn't either, But I told
him I had more guts of my little peaky than
he did in his whole body. He didn't look at me,
(28:35):
he didn't respond.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Rudolph was facing death. It's what the victims wanted. There
was clear evidence linking him to each of these bombings.
There was the phone call recording placed to nine one one,
the bomb threat at the Olympics that multiple witnesses identified
as Eric Rudolph is.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
A Mom, the car harm.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
There were the directional plates that were used at both
the Olympics and the Sandy Springs Clinic. Prosecutors had the
coffee cup with the license plate tag Jeff Tickle wrote
down that matched Rudolph's truck, the same truck that had
bomb residue left on the steering wheel, the same bomb
residue that was found inside Rudolph's trailer, the same trailer
he quickly fled from, emptying his drawers and leaving the
(29:25):
front door open in the middle of winter. Investigators also
discovered that Rudolph purchased a paperback under the alias Z
Randolph titled Ragner's Homemade Detonators that was shipped to his
po box in Topton, the very book that gave specific
instructions on how to build the detonator that was used
to kill Officer Sanderson. And Maame Emily lyons. This seems
(29:49):
like a lot, but in court it's all considered circumstantial evidence.
And Richard Jaffey understood this well. Did surprise you when
(30:14):
the prosecution approached you with a plea deal?
Speaker 8 (30:16):
The fact that it was floated to me. That was
the first of three different discussions I had with the
government on pleat And the bottom line is I think
they recognized that only at that time, sixteen percent of
federal death penalty cases ended up in death. And while
(30:38):
they had a pretty strong the strongest of any of
the cases against Eric, they recognized that it was a
circumstantial evidence case and it only took one juror to
hang it up and prevent it a guilty verdict. And
even if they got a guilty verdict, it only took
one juror to stop a death sentence.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
In other words, Rudolph had very effectively covered his tracks.
Even with all the evidence that surface after his capture
in a court of law and with a jury of
his peers, it still wasn't an open shutcase. Prosecutors needed
a confession.
Speaker 8 (31:21):
And I made it clear in the first discussion that
I would get back to them after speaking to Eric,
and I did, and I made it clear that if
there was going to be a plea, it would have
to be what we call a global resolution, meaning every
single case, the potential state case is the Atlantic cases,
in the Birmingham cases to a life sentence.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
So Jeffy had to bring this news to Eric Rudolph
and pose the offer, an offer that would spare his life,
an offer from the very government he was hell bent
on overthrown with his actions.
Speaker 8 (31:57):
I had developed a really good relationship with Eric, but
we never ever discussed plea. It never came up. It
was never something that was in play. So my concern
is that if I discussed it with him, which I
was ethically bound to do, then he might lose confidence
(32:21):
and get shocked and think that we thought that we
couldn't successfully defend him here in Birmingham. So I was
braced for a pretty vociferous reaction, but instead it was
a subdued Eric. And when I asked him ultimately, so
(32:41):
it comes down to this, do you want to live?
And his voice softened and he went, yes, I want
to live. That certainly surprised me, but I can tell
you that having represented thousands of people and had this
discussion with fouls of people, there are plenty of people
(33:02):
that just aren't completed and are going to think the
lawyer's lost confidence in the case. But Eric was pragmatic
enough and knew the case well enough that he was
able to make what quite honestly was a wise decision.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
As part of the plea agreement to avoid the death sentence,
Rudolph gave up the location of a massive arsenal of
dynamite he had stored deep in the woods, This dynamite
was linked to a December nineteen ninety six robbery of
more than three hundred and forty pounds of nitroglycer and
dynamite in Asheville, North Carolina. By ATF's estimates, only about
(33:43):
thirty pounds of the three hundred and forty pounds of
dynamite had been used in Rudolph's bombings, which meant there
was a lot more dynamite that still needed to be secured.
Rudolph stockpile was hidden in the woods of the Nanahalo Forest,
buried at five different sites. When federal authorities found it,
(34:03):
it was unstable, ready to blow with even a hint
of a spark. Agents destroyed the dynamite through a series
of somewhat controlled detonations that rattled the surrounding areas and
left a lasting imprint on the National Forest forever marked
Eric Rudolph slept here.
Speaker 13 (34:25):
I mean, obviously, when the Centennial Park bombing happened during
the Olympics, people were stunned. I mean, this was supposed
to be an event that showcased Atlanta, and it clearly
left a scar behind, and then you had years of
uncertainty about who actually did People thought it was Eric Rudolf,
but was unclear and until he was captured and then
ultimately decide to plead guilty, and that'll happen today.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
On April fourteenth, two thousand and five, Eric Rudolph pleaded guilty,
confessing to his crimes, clarifying his motives and articulating his
ideology of hatred in an eleven page confession.
Speaker 14 (35:01):
When it was Rudolph's turn to speak, he ranted like
a madman, claiming he was fighting for life by attacking
an abortion mill.
Speaker 11 (35:09):
Rudolph says he the Olympics went terribly rawing never intended
to hurt anybody. If you've seen a mock up at
the bomb, that's laughable. Of course, he intended to hurt people,
but I think he didn't get the kind of positive
reinforcement he expected from the Olympics.
Speaker 14 (35:24):
His sentencing hearing was emotionally riching. Survivors of his clinic
bombing finally got the opportunity to lash out at Rudolph.
Speaker 10 (35:31):
I was not happy about it. I wanted a trial.
I wanted all the evidence to come out. He probably
would not have taken the stand, but I wanted to
hear the preponderance of evidence against him. But I understand
from where the prosecutors were coming from, although I was
not happy with them, but they were just doing their job.
(35:54):
But I wanted to see a trial and we were
all denied that.
Speaker 14 (36:00):
Andy Sanderson's widow understands why prosecutors agreed to the plea deal.
The deal spared Rudolph's life, even though he took her
husband's look.
Speaker 15 (36:10):
I leave Eric Rudolph's final punishment in God's hands. And
I looked him in the face in that court Remus
the one time I did, and I said that to him.
That's the only thing I said to him. That's the
only thing I ever care to say to it.
Speaker 14 (36:23):
Staring him dead in the eye. Emily Lyons blasted Eric Rudolf,
calling him a failure and a coward who had spent
his life in prison rather than risk death.
Speaker 12 (36:33):
In my opinion, he got off easy. He killed people,
he planned it. How much more premeditated murder do you
need to get a death penalty? That's what I wanted.
I wanted to be able to sit in the road
before the window like you always see on TV, and
(36:54):
be the face that he sees before he does. That's
where I wanted to be be able to sit there
and watch him die as he stood there and watched
Sandyda says he stood there and tried to kill me.
Speaker 9 (37:18):
They're very secretive about who's even brought to Colorado for that. Facility.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
ADX Florence is a federal supermax in Florence, Colorado. It
houses inmates that are deemed the most dangerous and capable
of extreme violence, including El Chapo, the Unibomber, the OKC bomber,
one of the Boston Marathon bombers, and the Shoe bomber.
It's where Eric Rudolph was sent.
Speaker 9 (37:45):
It's the most secure prison in the United States, and
it's full of the worst in the United States.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Everything is made of concrete, the walls, the floor, the desk,
the sink, your bed, and inmates are fine to their
cells for twenty three hours a day. You're truly shut
off from the world.
Speaker 9 (38:05):
No one's ever escaped, and I don't think mister Rudolph
will have any ability to and I don't think he'll
be communicating with anybody from there either.
Speaker 10 (38:14):
January sixteenth, and I call it Family Survival Day because
our entire family survived, and I do once in a
while get on the Internet and look up details about supermacs,
just to kind of get an idea of what he's
going through. I mean, he gets one hour of outside.
(38:40):
But it's interesting when they go into their courtyard. Apparently
things are so covered up you don't see the sky.
You basically walk around and whatever, and then you go
back in and the only window you have in that
cell this is a skinny little thing. And even then
(39:03):
they say, when you look out of those windows, you
can't see anything.
Speaker 12 (39:12):
My parents were sitting behind me and my sister and
my daughter, because I wanted them to see the person
who did this to me.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Emily Lyons is describing the last time she saw Eric
Rudolf in the courtroom.
Speaker 12 (39:29):
My parents were close to ninety at that point. They
were brought up in a small town. You know, nobody
went around killing people. I wanted for them to know
that there are people out there like that, to let
them know that this isn't just an isolated event.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Emily's right. Eric Rudolf is not nicely an event. He's
a relentless presence, part of a relentless movement, an echo
in our minds and in our daily lives. His actions
are inescapable permanent life altering and understanding him is not
(40:13):
about empathy. It's about confronting and holding uncomfortable and contradictory truths.
But regardless of the motivation, how does a person arrive
at that conclusion? What activates them? How the fuck does
someone go from I don't agree with you too, I'm
going to kill you. Why do you think he did
(40:35):
what he did?
Speaker 12 (40:39):
I think Herdoff did all this because of what he
had been brought up in the religion, the skinhead part
of his existence, radical ideas that he obtained early on.
He just continued on that. It's like talking to about
(41:00):
a closed mind. He was closed mind. All he had
in his head was hatred, religious oddities, things that most
normal people don't have. But he just had it drilled
in for so long that there want anything else to
think about. This is it. There's no other no other thought,
(41:24):
no other opinion, no other action. This is it. This
is the way the world is. We're going to fix that.
Kill them, kill them all.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Someone who holds these convictions, who could commit such acts
of extraordinary evil, That's not normally someone I'd ever want
to talk to. But this isn't normal. This is where
we're at and I have to try. The Supermax in
Florence is the highest security prison in the United States,
(41:57):
but they do allow for communication via letters to inmates,
including Eric Rudolph. Dear mister Rudolph. My name is Cola Cassio.
(42:21):
I was born on May twentieth, nineteen ninety seven. There's
no way you can know this, but my mom was
scheduled to have an abortion at the Sandy Springs abortion
clinic on January seventeenth, the day after you bombed it.
She was just seventeen years old at the time, and
ultimately she decided not to terminate her pregnancy. I was
(42:42):
born four months later. Truth be told, I don't support
what you did, but at the same time, I only
exist because of your actions, and I think about this
a lot. I'm very curious about you and the things
that motivate you to plant and detonate those bombs. I'm
also curious to know what you would say to me
(43:03):
after hearing my story. If it's at all possible, I
would like to speak with you, sincerely, col A Cassio.
(43:32):
Flashpoint is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeartMedia.
I'm your host, Cola Cassio, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay
are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. Flashpoint was created, written,
and executive produced by Doug Mattica and myself on behalf
of seven nine ninety seven. Lead producer is Alex Vespustad,
(43:57):
along with producers Jamie Albright and Meredith. Our Associate producer
is Wit Lucasio. Editing by alex Espostat with additional editing
by Liam Luxon and Sidney Evans. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.
Artwork by Station sixteen, original music by Jay Ragsdale mixed
(44:20):
by Dayton Cole. Thank you to Orrin Rosenbaum and the
team at Uta Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group.
Special thanks to Angela q, Tylie Revive, Mattica and Tim Livingston.
For more podcasts like Flashpoint, search Tenderfoot TV on your
favorite podcast s app or visit us at tenderfoot dot tv.
(44:44):
Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of Flashpoint.
This series is released weekly ssolutely free, but for ad
free listening, early access and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe
(45:06):
to Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts or at tenderfootplus dot com,
Flashpoint is released weekly and brought to you absolutely free,
but for ad free listening, early access and exclusive bonuses,
subscribe to tenderfoot Plus at tenderfootplus dot com or on
Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
You're listening to Flashpoint, a production of tenderfoot TV and
association with iHeartMedia. The views and opinions expressed in this
podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast.
This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be
suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Hello, You'll have reached to VI Israel and the Watchman
Outreach Ministries. If you would like to speak to aafter
game and please press three locome by the pounds. Fine,
(01:09):
good afternoon.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
Me I help you.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Hey, mister Gamon, my name is Cole. I was looking
to get more information about your church.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
Oh okay, yes, sir, I'd be happy to talk to you. Cole.
How did you find out about us?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
So my story is interesting and how I found out
about your church. My mother when she was really young,
when she was seventeen, she got pregnant with me. She
was actually.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Second married at that time. She was not okay.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
She was scheduled actually to have an abortion with me,
and oh wow, the abortion clinic that she was scheduled
to have the abortion in was bombed the day before
by Eric Rudolph.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 5 (01:54):
Okay, well, Cole, I am, first of all, I praised
the name of Jesus Christ that you are in this world.
What a what a deliverance, I mean, what a sad
thing that had to happen for you to get here.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
But my goodness, Now, is your mother still living?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
She is, she is, We're very close.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
Oh that's as marvelous. I bet she is grateful that
you're not. You're not the victim of an abortion.
Speaker 5 (02:29):
Oh my goodness, you know, I really want to I
want you to know cold that I'm I'm honored to
be talking with you.
Speaker 4 (02:38):
See.
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Eric Rudolph was just a very young kid when he
came through here. His mother was a widowed lady with
another brother. They had absolutely nothing.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Some friend told him, you know, that they could stop
here and probably get some help.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
Eric was a very well mannered, he was very bright,
gunk kid, and you know, we never heard one word
again until we heard of this very very alarming story.
Speaker 4 (03:08):
Out of you know, out of the South late in
the nineteen nineties. That was pretty amazing. We were just,
you know, we were aghast.
Speaker 5 (03:18):
See, we've never, at any time in our history advocated
any kind of violence. We would never endorse that. We
would just simply find that to be rebolting. So we
never you know, we never in any way ever advanced
the ideas that Eric picked up. We don't know where
he got those ideas.
Speaker 4 (03:42):
Let me put it this way, Cole, I would not
deny for one.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Moment that I'm very very much opposed to abortion, I'm
opposed to race mixing, and I am opposed to homosexuality.
Now what am I supposed to Knowing that he's alleged
to a bomb, abortion plenty, a homosexual bar, and a
place where they were racially mixed. I don't know where
(04:08):
he picked up all those ideas, but those are all
ideas that I personally, Cole, I can open the Bible
and show you where abortion is wrong.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
It's murder.
Speaker 5 (04:18):
Race mixing is wrong, It's against God's law. We believe
that God doesn't want any race to intermingle and change
their nature and their original design that God gave them.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
It's bizarre to me that Dan Gamon doesn't see his
part in Eric Rudolf's development. In my opinion, he's probably
in denial as far as Gamon's concerned. Sure they shared ideologies,
but that's where the connection ends. Eric Rudolph was, after
all a lone wolf, right.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
And with regard to homosexuality, I need not mention to
you that the Bible is very anti homosexuality. God even
destroyed the whole city named Thodom and Gomorrah of homosexuals.
So all three of those are terrible, horrible sins, and
you know, they became the point of Eric's frustration to
(05:15):
exercise this kind of violence. And that's where I disagree
wholeheartedly with him, that he made a tragic mistake when
he went off the deep end and used violence. When
we teach God's word, his word is very clear, and
we can do it in a very Christian manner, and
that's where it stops. We don't carry it any further
(05:36):
than that.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Well, Cole, I've got an appointment I have to keep,
so I'm going to run. But you know, I want
to thank you for calling me, and I want you
to just if you don't mind.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
Just remember this one little thought that I'm going to
say when I end this call.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Cole. I'm not sure what caused you to want to
call this number and talk to me, but I'm wondering if.
Speaker 5 (06:05):
There was a higher power that was directing you, and
will call that higher power the God who created of
an an earth. You might want to think about coming
to visit us and learn more about us before you.
You know, weigh in heavily on judging. And don't you
find it a little bit interesting that your life was
(06:29):
spared from a bullish and clinic. Isn't that amazing that
you came within one day.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Of not being here.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
I have a really hard time believing that Dan Gamon
had no direct connection to Eric Rudolf or what motivated
him to become a terrorist. But here's the thing. I
do know these so called lone wolves, somewhere down the line,
they're always part of a pack, whether they know it
or not. I can't say precisely when and where Eric
(07:03):
Rudolf began to think of himself as an operative in
a movement, a soldier in the army of God. But
at a certain point he knew damn well what he
was doing, why he was doing it, and how it
would be perceived. He said it point blank after his
capture quote. The hope was that my actions would push
(07:27):
other pro lifers and patriots to bridge the gap between
their rhetoric and their actions. These attacks were not part
of some personal vendetta against abortionists, homosexuals, or government agents.
They were acts of war aimed at damaging, undermining, and
ultimately overthrowing the liberal establishment in America. When I heard
(07:50):
they were bringing the Summer Olympics to Atlanta, I thought
it would make the perfect target. Episode seven, When Ideas
(08:16):
Become Actions.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
This morning, at four point thirty in the morning, an
alert Murphy police officer noticed something unusual going on behind
the Valley Village shopping center here in Murphy. He investigated,
He called for backup, and ultimately arrested Eric Robert Rudolph
at about four point thirty am this morning.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
The trial of Eric Rudolph, set to determine the consequences
for his acts of terror, was originally scheduled for August fourth,
two thousand and four. Federal Judge Lynnwood Smith delayed the
start by a year, stating the sheer volume of discovery
that still must be organized and assimilated by Defense Council
is staggering.
Speaker 6 (09:02):
As you know, he's charged in connection with the bombings
of the Centennial Park, the Sandy Ridge Professional Center office building,
and the double bombings of the other Side Lounge in
midtown Atlanta. The death of a police officer in Alabama resulted,
also the death of a person in Atlanta, and about
(09:22):
one hundred and fifty injuries resulted from these bombings.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Despite the strong evidence connecting him to these horrifying crimes,
he still had a right to a full thread of defense.
Speaker 7 (09:35):
Richard to this day is one of my best friends.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
This again is former US Attorney Doug Jones. His term
as US attorney had ended by the time of Rudolph's capture,
but he still attended many of the proceedings.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
I just know the way Richard Jeffy handles his clients.
He doesn't make judgments own people at all, and his job,
he understands, as a defense lawyer, is to get to
know the client, get to know the cases put the
government to their burden. He believes that every client, regardless
(10:12):
of the circumstance, deserves the top notch defense. He can
endure their trust regardless and I can assure you without
having sat through any of their conversations or without Richard
talking to me about it. They didn't talk about the politics.
Richard let him know that he was his advocate, and
(10:35):
that probably let him know that the political aspect of this,
while the government may do X, it doesn't matter to him.
He has a job and he wants to know everything
about the client. He wants to understand the facts, and
he just has that mannerism as good as any lawyer
that I've ever seen that does criminal defense work.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
It took me months to nail down a time to
speak with Richard Jaffey, but I finally made the drive
to Birmingham to sit down with him. With the ac
blasting on a hot summer day, we settled into what
would have been the dining room in a two story
Tudor style home that had been converted into his law office.
Speaker 8 (11:16):
My faith in the justice system today is certainly not
what it was when I started practicing law, which was
forty five years ago. I think that when the power
of government manifests itself, if there aren't people, mainly lawyers,
(11:36):
willing to stand up and protect the helpless and those
individuals that don't have power, then the democracy as we
know it will completely evaporate.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Richard's colleagues often refer to him as Atticus Finch, the
protagonist from Taquilla Mockingbird. In the novel Atticust defends a
black man falsely accused of rape in the small town
of may coom, Alabama, during the Great Depression. As is
the case for many lawyers in the South, the character
of Atticus Finch served as an influence in Richard's decision
(12:14):
to become a defense attorney to do the work of
representing marginalized or seemingly guilty defendants.
Speaker 8 (12:21):
In representing both the apparently innocent and the apparently guilty,
our ethical responsibilities to provide the most zealous representation we're
capable of are the same. The scariest thing is to
represent someone that is apparently or obviously innocent and where
(12:44):
there is a significant lack of proof, in knowing that
if we have to go to trial and we lose,
it's basically hard to forget.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
I asked Jaffe how the opportunity to represent Rudolph even
came to him.
Speaker 8 (13:00):
Well, I was in the federal courtroom of Judge Lindwood Smith,
an excellent judge, and I was representing, along with my team,
a lawyer charged with witness tampering, and we were arguing
over discovery when suddenly the assistant of Judge Smith came
(13:26):
up to him and whispered in his ear. He recessed
abruptly and came back, and then we learned that Eric
Rudolph had been arrested.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Eric Rudolph was staring down a potential death penalty sentence.
At this point, of the fifty people he had defended
who were facing the death penalty, none had been executed.
Speaker 8 (14:05):
To represent somebody for a federal death penalty crime, the
court is obligated to a point what's called learned counsel,
and that means someone who is skilled in death penalty,
federal death penalty work and trained.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
Jeffy recalls his friend and colleague, Bruce Gardner, nudging the
judge as at that time Alabama had only one such
qualified lawyer.
Speaker 8 (14:32):
So we finished the hearing in the case was continued,
and Bruce walked up to Judge Smith and said, you
don't need to keep looking for another lawyer. The best
person in the country you could appoint is sitting right
over there, pointing to me. I'm unabashedly against the death penalty.
(14:53):
The death penalty doesn't work, meaning it's provably not a
deterrent to others. It's also inhumane, super expensive, five times
as expensive to try someone for a death penalty case
then house them for their entire life, even if their teens.
Speaker 9 (15:21):
Take me through the first.
Speaker 8 (15:22):
StAst well, the first day is when Judge Smith said
he was appointing me as the lead lawyer, and he
instructed me to go over and meet with Eric at
the Jefferson County Jail. And his concern was whether Eric
would accept me being Jewish, and he also wondered how
(15:44):
I would interface with Eric and how I would feel
about it.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
Eric Rudolph is a loud and proud anti Semite, a
Holocaust denier who called the television the electric Jew. Richard
Jeffey is a Jewish man. I asked him how he
was able to navigate that.
Speaker 8 (16:03):
I went over and met with Eric at the Jefferson
County Jail. He wasn't in the normal cell with others.
He had his own block practically, and he was watching
himself on TV. When I walked in and introduced myself
and we had a very nice discussion. It wasn't that long,
(16:23):
less than an hour, and he basically said that was
a long time ago. I've evolved since then. That was
what I said many years ago, is not how I
feel and who I am today. And I went back
and reported that Judge Smith the second day he was here,
that was the arraignment, and the arraignment's really a formality
(16:47):
where someone pleads not guilty or guilty. They couldn't plead
guilty if they wanted to. It's a formality in that sense,
but from a legal perspective, the judge gets a formal
not guilty plea and explains the rights of the particular
defendant and the process. There was so much media there
(17:10):
that I couldn't really get in even though I got
there early. Neither I nor my team could get in
the courthouse because it was just that crowded.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Doug Jones was also at the arraignment.
Speaker 7 (17:23):
I called the US Marshall said I really want to
get in that courtroom. So I was able to sit
in the jury box, and you could just from my standpoint,
it was a cold.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Look.
Speaker 7 (17:37):
There was just something and I've told people since that
time that you just don't see a soul behind those
dark eyes of his, that he was proud of what
he did. Do you just know he had a mission.
He was proud of what he did, and he would
do it over if he had to.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I asked Richard Jaffee what his first impressions were of
Eric Rudolph.
Speaker 8 (18:03):
Well, Eric had been in hiding for five and a
half years, so he really hadn't had a meaningful conversation
with anyone, and every single day he was in hiding
was a day that he was solely focused on surviving.
(18:24):
So suddenly he's instead of having the ability to watch
the FBI because he had three different camps that he constructed,
he was now confined in a jail cell, facing the
death penalty. Imagine the culture shock he was experiencing. The
(18:46):
interesting thing is that when he was arrested, he gave
his real name after he initially didn't. And I had
the feeling, and based on some of my discussions with him,
that he was just kind of tired of that life.
I can't imagine what it'd be like trying to survive,
to sleep there and wake up there and find food
(19:11):
and not injure yourself without medical treatment, and always be
wondering am I going to get caught? And will I
be killed on site? But I never found Eric to
be remorseful when it came to the subject of abortion,
because he felt that strongly about it that in fact,
(19:36):
to him, it was war, and Eric believed that in
war the rules are different, and that this was an
attack on babies, on people, and that he was called
to take action to do something about it. Obviously, if
(19:59):
everyone un thought that way, we would have no society,
we would have no civilization, we have no existence because
we'd all be killing each other. But Eric felt that
strongly about the situation.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Both Jaffie and Jones ultimately reached the same conclusion in
their thinking and in their impressions of Rudolph. They believed
he was on a mission, one that he felt strongly about,
and he carried out that mission without remorse. But as
the prosecutor, Doug Jones's singular job would have been to convict,
(20:42):
to paint the portrait of a monster, while as a
defense attorney, Jaffe's job, in addition to calling the evidence
into question, was to find the beating heart inside this
human being and present it to the jury. That is,
without question, the most effective way to avoid a sentence.
Speaker 8 (21:02):
My focus was to get to know him, not to
challenge him and build up a rapport and a respect
and clearly one hundred percent I did because when there
was a conflict between the two factions of teams, Eric
chose me and my team.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
This was an extremely high profile case, but aside from that,
it was only different from other cases by virtue of
the fact that it was a death penalty case. And
death penalty cases are notoriously hard to win in any prosecution,
even if the defendant has essentially been found guilty in
the court of public opinion. The burden of proof in
(21:46):
this case required clear and convincing evidence, and it also
required a unanimous verdict. The possibility of a hung jury
was a very real scenario.
Speaker 8 (21:58):
So there were different scenarios in play, and as a lawyer,
you don't reach any conclusions. And I think that's one
of the problems that sometimes law enforcement gets into, is
what we call rush to judgment. The perfect example is
Richard Jewel. So as lawyers, the last thing we wanted
(22:21):
to do was exclude any hypothesis that was reasonable.
Speaker 10 (22:32):
So I went down a federal courthouse along with the
other victims of other bombings.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
At a certain point in the process, victims from each
of the bombings were brought in to provide personal statements
about the crimes. They included Atlanta radio host Rob Stadler,
who was at the Sandy Springs clinic bombing with his
twin girls.
Speaker 10 (22:52):
There was a gentleman who was a first responder, and
he showed me the shrapnel that's still in his leg.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
The victims were given the chance to read these statements
to the courtroom and Eric Rudolph directly. Victim statements are
a necessary part of the judicial process to allow the
victims to describe the impacts of the crimes, which assists
the judge and sentencing. Rob at first was hesitant to
provide one. He was ready to be done with that
chapter of his life. But he was told that nobody
(23:23):
else from the Sandy Springs bombing was willing to give
a victim statement, so he took on that responsibility.
Speaker 10 (23:30):
So it was my turn to talk, and I spent
most of the time speaking on behalf of the others
who were there, the first responders and the federal relations, etc.
And spoke how they did such a great job after
it happened. But I looked at Rudolph and I said,
(23:52):
you know what I'm going to do, Eric, after this,
I'm going to go home. I'm going to pick up
my girls and we're going to do homework. I go,
that's a privilege. You're never going to have the privilege
of having your own family, and I don't feel sorry
for you. It was really interesting at the end when
(24:13):
they shackled him and took him out. That was the
first time that I saw an expression of fear. He
made his own help. Now he's going to have to
live in it.
Speaker 11 (24:32):
I still remember being on the back row.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Former US Attorney Kent Alexander, the lead law enforcement officer
for the Olympic Park bombing who was no longer on
the case, was also there in the courtroom.
Speaker 11 (24:44):
I didn't just sit on the back row, but I
sat on top of the back of the bench because
I wanted to eyeball Eric Rudolf. I really wanted to
see who this guy was, and he was remarkably unimpressive
at that point. He was pale as could be. He
was overwakes kept feeding him in the jail in Birmingham.
He just to me looked like this troll. I kept
(25:05):
expecting to hear something or see something, though I knew
it's rare that defendants say anything other than not guilty
and you go from there. But for me, it was
important to be there just by way of closure. That
also was the last time I saw Richard Jewel, who
was there with his wife Dana. I ran into them
right outside the courtroom. Even then, a lot of the
(25:26):
agents were starting to back away from him as if
he had done something wrong because there was a lot
of bad blood during the process, with his defence team
criticizing the FBI. But I thought it was fitting that.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Richard was there.
Speaker 11 (25:42):
He said, I've been waiting a long time for this day,
such a long time. He had to sit in a
remote room with his wife to watch everything on video.
His wife told me that she was happy because she
really thinks he would have just jumped over the bench
and attacked the guy, because for him'd say it was
a life altering experience. This bombing would be unbelievable understatement.
(26:05):
It ultimately took a lot of years off his life
because he died at age forty four of a heart attack.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Emily Lyons, the nurse who bore the full force of
the bombing at the Alabama abortion clinic, also attended some
of the proceedings and had the chance to get a
look at Rudolph beforehand outside the courtroom.
Speaker 12 (26:25):
The closest I ever got to him. We were in Huntsville,
and we were standing in a room with a door
that had two pieces of glass up at the top,
like a swing door. And they brought him back through
the hallway. And when he passed in from those windows,
he turned and looked at me. There was no expression, nothing,
It was just blackness avoid in his eyes. He didn't care,
(26:50):
He didn't I don't think he knew who I was,
but sure he could just tell.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Emily lost one eye with the other severely damaged. Her
hand was mangled, and a gaping wound in her abdomen
required the removal of ten inches of her intestines. Most
of the flesh was blown off her legs and hands.
She suffered severe burns, a shattered leg, and shrapnel and
nails remain embedded in her body. Confined to a wheelchair.
(27:24):
Ever since the bomb, Emily has endured unimaginable pain and suffering.
Yet when she heard that Eric Rudolf was captured, she
had one immediate response. She wanted to confront him face
to face.
Speaker 12 (27:39):
And I got to tell him in court what I thought.
I let him know that he didn't win that day.
He wanted people to die. But you didn't silence me.
You thought you were going to do me in that day,
but you were mistaken, and you're never going to see
the light of day like I will. I'll be able
(28:01):
to see. I'll be able to do things that you
will never be able to do again. I can enjoy
a good dinner somewhere.
Speaker 4 (28:11):
I will.
Speaker 12 (28:12):
You didn't kill me, and you didn't silence me. You
did the complete opposite. You made my voice up hear.
You made my brain be more active with the issue.
Judge didn't like it. Lawyer didn't either, But I told
him I had more guts of my little peaky than
he did in his whole body. He didn't look at me,
(28:35):
he didn't respond.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Rudolph was facing death. It's what the victims wanted. There
was clear evidence linking him to each of these bombings.
There was the phone call recording placed to nine one one,
the bomb threat at the Olympics that multiple witnesses identified
as Eric Rudolph is.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
A Mom, the car harm.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
There were the directional plates that were used at both
the Olympics and the Sandy Springs Clinic. Prosecutors had the
coffee cup with the license plate tag Jeff Tickle wrote
down that matched Rudolph's truck, the same truck that had
bomb residue left on the steering wheel, the same bomb
residue that was found inside Rudolph's trailer, the same trailer
he quickly fled from, emptying his drawers and leaving the
(29:25):
front door open in the middle of winter. Investigators also
discovered that Rudolph purchased a paperback under the alias Z
Randolph titled Ragner's Homemade Detonators that was shipped to his
po box in Topton, the very book that gave specific
instructions on how to build the detonator that was used
to kill Officer Sanderson. And Maame Emily lyons. This seems
(29:49):
like a lot, but in court it's all considered circumstantial evidence.
And Richard Jaffey understood this well. Did surprise you when
(30:14):
the prosecution approached you with a plea deal?
Speaker 8 (30:16):
The fact that it was floated to me. That was
the first of three different discussions I had with the
government on pleat And the bottom line is I think
they recognized that only at that time, sixteen percent of
federal death penalty cases ended up in death. And while
(30:38):
they had a pretty strong the strongest of any of
the cases against Eric, they recognized that it was a
circumstantial evidence case and it only took one juror to
hang it up and prevent it a guilty verdict. And
even if they got a guilty verdict, it only took
one juror to stop a death sentence.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
In other words, Rudolph had very effectively covered his tracks.
Even with all the evidence that surface after his capture
in a court of law and with a jury of
his peers, it still wasn't an open shutcase. Prosecutors needed
a confession.
Speaker 8 (31:21):
And I made it clear in the first discussion that
I would get back to them after speaking to Eric,
and I did, and I made it clear that if
there was going to be a plea, it would have
to be what we call a global resolution, meaning every
single case, the potential state case is the Atlantic cases,
in the Birmingham cases to a life sentence.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
So Jeffy had to bring this news to Eric Rudolph
and pose the offer, an offer that would spare his life,
an offer from the very government he was hell bent
on overthrown with his actions.
Speaker 8 (31:57):
I had developed a really good relationship with Eric, but
we never ever discussed plea. It never came up. It
was never something that was in play. So my concern
is that if I discussed it with him, which I
was ethically bound to do, then he might lose confidence
(32:21):
and get shocked and think that we thought that we
couldn't successfully defend him here in Birmingham. So I was
braced for a pretty vociferous reaction, but instead it was
a subdued Eric. And when I asked him ultimately, so
(32:41):
it comes down to this, do you want to live?
And his voice softened and he went, yes, I want
to live. That certainly surprised me, but I can tell
you that having represented thousands of people and had this
discussion with fouls of people, there are plenty of people
(33:02):
that just aren't completed and are going to think the
lawyer's lost confidence in the case. But Eric was pragmatic
enough and knew the case well enough that he was
able to make what quite honestly was a wise decision.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
As part of the plea agreement to avoid the death sentence,
Rudolph gave up the location of a massive arsenal of
dynamite he had stored deep in the woods, This dynamite
was linked to a December nineteen ninety six robbery of
more than three hundred and forty pounds of nitroglycer and
dynamite in Asheville, North Carolina. By ATF's estimates, only about
(33:43):
thirty pounds of the three hundred and forty pounds of
dynamite had been used in Rudolph's bombings, which meant there
was a lot more dynamite that still needed to be secured.
Rudolph stockpile was hidden in the woods of the Nanahalo Forest,
buried at five different sites. When federal authorities found it,
(34:03):
it was unstable, ready to blow with even a hint
of a spark. Agents destroyed the dynamite through a series
of somewhat controlled detonations that rattled the surrounding areas and
left a lasting imprint on the National Forest forever marked
Eric Rudolph slept here.
Speaker 13 (34:25):
I mean, obviously, when the Centennial Park bombing happened during
the Olympics, people were stunned. I mean, this was supposed
to be an event that showcased Atlanta, and it clearly
left a scar behind, and then you had years of
uncertainty about who actually did People thought it was Eric Rudolf,
but was unclear and until he was captured and then
ultimately decide to plead guilty, and that'll happen today.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
On April fourteenth, two thousand and five, Eric Rudolph pleaded guilty,
confessing to his crimes, clarifying his motives and articulating his
ideology of hatred in an eleven page confession.
Speaker 14 (35:01):
When it was Rudolph's turn to speak, he ranted like
a madman, claiming he was fighting for life by attacking
an abortion mill.
Speaker 11 (35:09):
Rudolph says he the Olympics went terribly rawing never intended
to hurt anybody. If you've seen a mock up at
the bomb, that's laughable. Of course, he intended to hurt people,
but I think he didn't get the kind of positive
reinforcement he expected from the Olympics.
Speaker 14 (35:24):
His sentencing hearing was emotionally riching. Survivors of his clinic
bombing finally got the opportunity to lash out at Rudolph.
Speaker 10 (35:31):
I was not happy about it. I wanted a trial.
I wanted all the evidence to come out. He probably
would not have taken the stand, but I wanted to
hear the preponderance of evidence against him. But I understand
from where the prosecutors were coming from, although I was
not happy with them, but they were just doing their job.
(35:54):
But I wanted to see a trial and we were
all denied that.
Speaker 14 (36:00):
Andy Sanderson's widow understands why prosecutors agreed to the plea deal.
The deal spared Rudolph's life, even though he took her
husband's look.
Speaker 15 (36:10):
I leave Eric Rudolph's final punishment in God's hands. And
I looked him in the face in that court Remus
the one time I did, and I said that to him.
That's the only thing I said to him. That's the
only thing I ever care to say to it.
Speaker 14 (36:23):
Staring him dead in the eye. Emily Lyons blasted Eric Rudolf,
calling him a failure and a coward who had spent
his life in prison rather than risk death.
Speaker 12 (36:33):
In my opinion, he got off easy. He killed people,
he planned it. How much more premeditated murder do you
need to get a death penalty? That's what I wanted.
I wanted to be able to sit in the road
before the window like you always see on TV, and
(36:54):
be the face that he sees before he does. That's
where I wanted to be be able to sit there
and watch him die as he stood there and watched
Sandyda says he stood there and tried to kill me.
Speaker 9 (37:18):
They're very secretive about who's even brought to Colorado for that. Facility.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
ADX Florence is a federal supermax in Florence, Colorado. It
houses inmates that are deemed the most dangerous and capable
of extreme violence, including El Chapo, the Unibomber, the OKC bomber,
one of the Boston Marathon bombers, and the Shoe bomber.
It's where Eric Rudolph was sent.
Speaker 9 (37:45):
It's the most secure prison in the United States, and
it's full of the worst in the United States.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Everything is made of concrete, the walls, the floor, the desk,
the sink, your bed, and inmates are fine to their
cells for twenty three hours a day. You're truly shut
off from the world.
Speaker 9 (38:05):
No one's ever escaped, and I don't think mister Rudolph
will have any ability to and I don't think he'll
be communicating with anybody from there either.
Speaker 10 (38:14):
January sixteenth, and I call it Family Survival Day because
our entire family survived, and I do once in a
while get on the Internet and look up details about supermacs,
just to kind of get an idea of what he's
going through. I mean, he gets one hour of outside.
(38:40):
But it's interesting when they go into their courtyard. Apparently
things are so covered up you don't see the sky.
You basically walk around and whatever, and then you go
back in and the only window you have in that
cell this is a skinny little thing. And even then
(39:03):
they say, when you look out of those windows, you
can't see anything.
Speaker 12 (39:12):
My parents were sitting behind me and my sister and
my daughter, because I wanted them to see the person
who did this to me.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Emily Lyons is describing the last time she saw Eric
Rudolf in the courtroom.
Speaker 12 (39:29):
My parents were close to ninety at that point. They
were brought up in a small town. You know, nobody
went around killing people. I wanted for them to know
that there are people out there like that, to let
them know that this isn't just an isolated event.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Emily's right. Eric Rudolf is not nicely an event. He's
a relentless presence, part of a relentless movement, an echo
in our minds and in our daily lives. His actions
are inescapable permanent life altering and understanding him is not
(40:13):
about empathy. It's about confronting and holding uncomfortable and contradictory truths.
But regardless of the motivation, how does a person arrive
at that conclusion? What activates them? How the fuck does
someone go from I don't agree with you too, I'm
going to kill you. Why do you think he did
(40:35):
what he did?
Speaker 12 (40:39):
I think Herdoff did all this because of what he
had been brought up in the religion, the skinhead part
of his existence, radical ideas that he obtained early on.
He just continued on that. It's like talking to about
(41:00):
a closed mind. He was closed mind. All he had
in his head was hatred, religious oddities, things that most
normal people don't have. But he just had it drilled
in for so long that there want anything else to
think about. This is it. There's no other no other thought,
(41:24):
no other opinion, no other action. This is it. This
is the way the world is. We're going to fix that.
Kill them, kill them all.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
Someone who holds these convictions, who could commit such acts
of extraordinary evil, That's not normally someone I'd ever want
to talk to. But this isn't normal. This is where
we're at and I have to try. The Supermax in
Florence is the highest security prison in the United States,
(41:57):
but they do allow for communication via letters to inmates,
including Eric Rudolph. Dear mister Rudolph. My name is Cola Cassio.
(42:21):
I was born on May twentieth, nineteen ninety seven. There's
no way you can know this, but my mom was
scheduled to have an abortion at the Sandy Springs abortion
clinic on January seventeenth, the day after you bombed it.
She was just seventeen years old at the time, and
ultimately she decided not to terminate her pregnancy. I was
(42:42):
born four months later. Truth be told, I don't support
what you did, but at the same time, I only
exist because of your actions, and I think about this
a lot. I'm very curious about you and the things
that motivate you to plant and detonate those bombs. I'm
also curious to know what you would say to me
(43:03):
after hearing my story. If it's at all possible, I
would like to speak with you, sincerely, col A Cassio.
(43:32):
Flashpoint is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeartMedia.
I'm your host, Cola Cassio, Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay
are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV. Flashpoint was created, written,
and executive produced by Doug Mattica and myself on behalf
of seven nine ninety seven. Lead producer is Alex Vespustad,
(43:57):
along with producers Jamie Albright and Meredith. Our Associate producer
is Wit Lucasio. Editing by alex Espostat with additional editing
by Liam Luxon and Sidney Evans. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan.
Artwork by Station sixteen, original music by Jay Ragsdale mixed
(44:20):
by Dayton Cole. Thank you to Orrin Rosenbaum and the
team at Uta Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group.
Special thanks to Angela q, Tylie Revive, Mattica and Tim Livingston.
For more podcasts like Flashpoint, search Tenderfoot TV on your
favorite podcast s app or visit us at tenderfoot dot tv.
(44:44):
Thanks for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of Flashpoint.
This series is released weekly ssolutely free, but for ad
free listening, early access and exclusive bonuses, you can subscribe
(45:06):
to Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts or at tenderfootplus dot com,
Host
Cole Locascio
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com