September 13, 2021 • 37 mins
Former Trump campaign spokesman and communications strategist Jason Miller joins David to discuss his new venture, Gettr. Gettr launched in July and looks to become a true alternative social media platform for conservatives who have grown tired of Facebook and Twitter's silencing of conservative voices, like that of former President Donald Trump.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm David Grosso, and you're listening to follow the profit.
My guest today is a pretty interesting guy. He's best
known as the chief spokesperson and former president of Donald Trump,
so I'm sure he has a lot to say, and
he's now the founder of getting which is an alternative
social media platform. How you doing Jason, David, I'm doing
(00:23):
it well. Good be with you. So for those who
don't know what is Getter and why do we need
other social media platforms? Absolutely so. Get Her is a
free speech social media platform that we launched on July
four this year, so a little over two months old,
already over two million users, million in the US, million outside.
And as we've seen so much censorship coming up in
(00:46):
social media and what I believe is political discrimination that's
coming out, I want to make sure that there's more
competition in the social media space, that there's something where
people were we have smart, sensible moderation and policies, but
we also need to make sure that we have our
free speech rights protected and that there aren't different standards
(01:06):
that are applied to people based on, say, their political affiliation. Yeah,
how do you balance that? Because this is a really
difficult balancing act. Right, we want for people to express themselves,
but we also don't want situations where we're getting spammed
by some some pretty gnarly stuff while we're online. Yeah. Now,
and you know what, I spent a lot of time
(01:28):
dealing with moderation. So they're going kind of for folks
who may or may not have kind of the granular
detail on this. So for most folks in the Western world,
free speech rights really extend about to the point where
you start to infringe on somebody else's free speech or
become say illegal or hurtful type commentary. And so in
(01:48):
our policies we make it very clear that we don't
put up with any illegal acts or threats to commit
illegal acts, or pornography or say, you know, ISIS or
terrorist type behaviors. That's that's actually a difference between say
US and Twitter, as the Taliban would not be allowed
to be on our platform, but they are on there
on Twitter. Um. But so what we have is both
(02:10):
an AI system that is set up artificial intelligence that
goes in say, for example, someone wanted to try to
post a beheading video or something like that, we'd catch
that and stop it right away. But then also we
have human moderators to go through to make sure that
things are being interpreted as in the right context. I'll
give you an example. This is a little bit in
the weeds, but folks might find it interesting. An entire
(02:31):
conference call and brought the team together because the picture
of a gentleman who posted effectively like ten sandwiches on
top of each other higher than his head while he's
at the table with a fork in one hand and
knife on the other got picked up because of the
knife in his hand. And obviously it was a gentleman
who just was really, really really hungry. You know, he's
been goofy as far as a photo it was putting on.
(02:52):
So we'll hold on the guy. Clearly it's a butter knife.
Clearly is not like, you know, threatening to do anything.
Why do you get picked up? And we actually went
through and we have that literally six different gradations of
knife imagery, and so what we decide is this should
have been the AI should have picked it up. There
was only a butter knife and not something where seemed
to be doing harm or not near someone's throat or
something like that. We want to look. We're never going
(03:14):
to get it right. A hundred percent at a time,
But we want to be sensitive and we want to
protect people. Obviously, if someone did have a knife to
the throat, that's not imagery that we would want on there.
But at the same time, we want to make sure
that we're doing after action reviews to make sure not
being too strict within so there's a balance. But again,
the kind of the value proposition I think with Getter
is that we're never going to go in censor or
(03:36):
deep platform people for speaking their political beliefs, and I
think that is with so much of the divide that's
going on in the country right now, I want to
make sure that people have a place where they always
know that their free speech right it's gonna be protected,
whether on the right or the left. And quite frankly,
a lot of the free speech debates uh in the
US and in recent even longer history have been pursued
(03:58):
by those who reviewed on the on the political left.
And so the pendulum is going to swing back, and
I want to make sure that what it does, all
of my friends on the left have a place where
they can go. No, they're not going to have big
tech to on the way they can or can't think Yeah,
so everything kind of already happened together, right, You already
got spammed, you already had data issues and whatnot. What
(04:20):
have you learned so far? Because it seems like it's
not easy to operate in the sense that you're doing.
You're at the nexus of some of the most controversial
stuff on earth, which is Donald Trump and social media
all in one little cocktail. Do you want to try
anything harder? Jason, Yeah, exactly. Maybe maybe juggling chainsaws or
(04:41):
you know, trying to across the Grand Canyon on a
on a tight rope. You know, those those might be
my uh, you know for next summer activities that if
I can get through this one. Um. But now it's
a look, it's it's a fight. I think that's worth having. Um.
I think that. I think also I think there's just
a lack of excitement in general with a lot of
social media platforms that are out there right now. And
I very much believe that if you go and tell people, hey,
(05:04):
you're not allowed to have this this belief anymore, or
if you're going to go and try to, you know,
chop off seventy million people in the country and say
we don't want to be part of the conversation, Well,
guess what, they're still going to have their opinions. They're
just going to go and keep themselves and becoming more
frustrated and more angry, or the country further is further
divided from my opinion I'm trying to do. I want
to make sure that everyone has a place where they
(05:26):
can come to and I think with some of the
cool features and different things we're doing together, I hope
you start attracting more people from the left. I think
our international presence, the fact that we have half of
our user base outside the Countrol already is a big
differential from other upstart platforms in the past. I mean literally,
I'll tell you this. Yesterday on that after the news
(05:47):
of my being held against my will, I guess you
could say in Brazil we had fifty thousand sign ups
just from Brazil alone, our second biggest sign up day
ever after July four when we kicked off. And so
this thing is on. This thing is catching on like
wildfire all around the planet. So how do we get here, Jason,
Because you've been in politics for a long time, whether
(06:07):
you're from the left or the right, Let's take off
the labels here, Why do we live in a world
where we're afraid of people saying certain things and that
we're offended at everything? Good question. So I think we're
and I'm going to put it a little bit more
specific to the digital space to try to avoid um,
people just saying you know, hey, I'm on the left,
(06:27):
I'm on the right. Um. And then you know, people
auto actually just put on their blue or red jerseys
and then the conversation kind of gets nowhere. So what
some folks might know and some folks might not, is
it back in the nineties, back when we had blogs
and a O L and you have that real weird
noise when you're getting on the internet. Um, they went
past they would pass the essentially the governing rules for
(06:49):
how the internet and social media are are covered. So
they have this thing called Section to thirty which allows
social media platforms to essentially not be held liable for
content that's that's put on there as long as they're
not going in in uh say, voicing editorial type things
and are the ones who are who are picking everything
that happens. And so that way, your your platform, not
(07:11):
a publisher. So a publisher would be again that could
be like the New York Times, you know, like you
know New York Times Online or Washington Posts where they're
liabel and on the hook for every letter, every character
that comes out, because that's that's what they're doing. They're
help liabel. It's different. They can have opinion, do these things.
And I think at a certain point that I think
(07:32):
these social media companies decided that they were going to
be the ones who were the arbiters of what is
real and what is not real. And I'll give you
an example on a couple of things. There's some things
Obviously you're gonna have people on both sides and go
and say crazy things at a certain point. But let
me just give you, like just some of the signs.
There were a lot of instances last year, is say,
(07:54):
COVID nineteen was starting to rage and to take off
where you had some of the social media companies are saying, well,
you can't go and say definitively that the virus is
from a lab and wuhan that's being being to the
people in China. I'm slightly over generalizing, but I'm making
this uh acknowledging that and people get put into time out,
digital time out, so to speak. Well, you know, shocker,
(08:16):
We did find out that the virus, not saying it's
man made necessarily, we don't know that for sure, but
it did come from a lab in Wuhan. That's pretty
much well accepted. Science changes the way that we I mean,
I'm someone who's vaccinated, but I'm old enough to remember
I was told that if you've got the one shot
of the vaccination or two shots, if you've got to
save Maderna, that you're fine, that you're protecting its COVID. Well,
(08:37):
then we find out like we're not necessarily, you're gonna
have to be getting jobs for for a while. So
science changes, we learn more, facts change. Uh, And I
think that we have to be real careful. Say, if
you're social media company, when you decided to start coming
and playing judge during executioner with the truth, Uh, you've
got to be careful and something because especially when it
(08:57):
comes to political opinions. Um, you know, one person's truth
is another person's falsey and vice versa, and you've got
to really be careful. Hey, are you committed to making
sure you have free speech? Are you committed to making
sure people believe what you believe? I think that's a
key distinction, which one what we do versus some of
the other platforms. So how do we draw that line though,
because it's hard, right, because you have some some personalities
(09:19):
on your platform that say things that some people would
consider extremely false, including myself. You know, I don't agree
with everyone everything that everyone says, and you know, I
don't think there's anything dangerous about expressing an opinion, but
other people definitely think that, and in fact, that's mainstream
thought these days, right, But that's that's dangerous to say that,
(09:39):
that's disinformation, that's making the world not a better place.
So how do we balance this? I mean, this is
directly pinning half of the population against the f Yeah, well,
I think part of it. Let's go back to the
very beginning, kind of the the underpinning, so to speak,
of what free speech is about, and the kind of
the north star we have. And again I'll admit, we're
(10:02):
not going to get it right every single time, you know,
do our best to try to, but it's going to
be a growing process that your free speech rights should
extend up until the point where they're either infringing on
someone else's free speech rights or until it's pushing into
illegal behavior or say the threatening behavior towards hurting someone.
And so if someone's offering up their political viewpoint or
(10:23):
their personal experiences, say dealing with UH, with the medical
issues or COVID or things like that, where people want
to talk about, here's what I think how we should
be approached a certain issue. And you know, and it's
not all politics. It's not get or it's not just
everything all all politics. Obviously that's where a lot of
the passion is. Admittedly right now is in kind of
the right of center space. Like I said, I hope
(10:43):
to continue broadening and get a lot more folks on.
So we do have folks like Jorge Moss at all
from the UFC and Gina Karano from the Mandalorian although
she's still Mandalorian and she get booted, but anyway, she's
I'm glad she's on our platform, but I'm not UM,
as I said when she joined the platform. You know, uh, Gina,
you know thinks or being the biggest badass and multiple galaxy.
So it's cool to have her on UM, but we
(11:06):
you know, we want to make sure that really your rights,
your ability go and talk about what as long as
you're not infringing on someone else's rights or threatening some
kind of illegal behavior. Uh. And so we do have
we do have a moderation policy. We do tell folks
were not going to put up with any racial or
religious epithets. We're not going to allow you to go
(11:26):
threatened illegal behavior docs people or things like that. And
we've had that from day one. Now obviously we've improved
on some of those, uh systems since we started, as
I kind of gave you that a little bit example earlier.
But that north star is your rights extend up to
the point where they start to infringe on somebody else's rights.
The ability or the right for you to punch me
stops at the bridge of my nose, as I believe
(11:47):
the saying goes. So let's talk about the go ahead now.
I was gonna say, look, you know, and the courts
have been pretty clear on them. You uh, you know
the proverbial you cannot walk into a crowded movie theater
and fire. Uh. You know, if you go into a
restaurant and hurl a racial epithet um, you know, odds
are you know it won't just be legal. Ramifications are
probably gonna get knuckle sandwich of your own. Um, And
(12:10):
so that's but now I think your analogy is a
little better. So I'm to steal that music at the
future if you don't mind, of course. I mean the
best ideas are stolen. Let's talk about the most famous
(12:31):
case of d platform ing, which is of course, former
President Trump. And you've made it very clear. I've watched
a lot of your interviews. You've been a good sport.
You sit with all types of media and talk about
your platform. Right, You've been not so quiet about trying
to get President Trump on your platform. How's that going?
And what can you comment about that. I'm working it.
I'm the biggest squeaky will that there has ever been.
(12:53):
And so I saw President Trump last night when visited
him at Bedminster, and worked on him for another half hour.
We we not yet have smoke coming out of the Vatican,
but I'm continuing to work it, and I'm optimistic about
the direction that's going. But here's the thing, Um, I
think that we have a great piece of technology, and
then we have a lot of fun, cool people that
(13:13):
are on the platform. Um. And as I start noticing,
I spent a lot of time on just go I
care about the user experience. I can convince people to
go and check out the platform, but if it's not
fun that people don't wake up and say, hey, let
me check out what's going on and get her, then uh,
then it's just it's not worth it. So I very
much invested in trying to make sure that it's a fun,
uh user friendly type type platform. I am really impressed
(13:37):
with the way that the conversation. Now again, it's not
just on politics. I mean it's a lot about life. Uh.
It's people who are seeing people from other countries, and
you know, for you know, I know many people in
the media A lot of times I want to go
and say that anyone who say, you know, right of
center populist, you know, there must be some kind of
uh you know, inward looking troglodyte that you know doesn't
(13:57):
interact with people from other countries and in different cultures.
And I got to tell you, I've interacted with people
from other countries more in the past two months, uh
than I probably have ever in my life. Um. It's
you know, it's great to know the people all around
the world that really appreciate free speech. Um, you know,
whether they're secretly doing it via VPN from China, or
someone who's in the democracy that should have better free
(14:20):
speech rights like Brazil, or even the people who you
know are good folks across the pond in the UK.
And so I love kind of this back and forth
and the fact that people are excited about a free
speech platform. So let's talk about the back and forth
a lot of times on Twitter. Half the fun is
seeing people who are different, you know, fight with each other,
right we we we tend to like stories where there's tension.
(14:42):
How are you going to bring that tension if you're
disproportionately attracting conservatives? Well, again, that's real. Right now, a
lot of the passion is in the right of center space.
But we're making a strong effort to try to both
hire some people to recruit more leftist center folks, but
then also try, excuse me, trying to get more people
kind of athletes and entertainers, people like that, when we
(15:03):
put together some some deals or partnerships to try to
bring them on board. But in the meantime, here's what
I can do. I can go and attract people who
quite frankly, don't build themselves as being political minded. Maybe
they're just more to two different things, and politics is
not what they drive. There might be people from different countries, uh,
not necessarily. You know, people who wake up in Japan
(15:24):
don't build themselves as republicans or democrats. Um. You know,
people who wake up and Brazil don't brand themselves as
tories or labor. Each country is going to have kind
of their own approach. What I can do is I
can expand or international profile, and I can bring in
a lot of people who maybe aren't that big into
politics at all. And over time, I think is the uh, look,
(15:45):
we're probably one big kind of explosive event away from
the pendulum starting to swing back. So say, for example, look,
it wasn't that long ago, for example, you know, whether
be gay rights or women's rights, or you know, going
back more forty years ago. Uh, you know, forty two
years ago where African Americans had a different set of
First Amendment rights, or they were especially certain areas of
(16:05):
the country there their first Amen was a lot different
from uh, from white folks First Amendment. UM. And so
it's the pendulum swings and impacts everyone across across the country. UM.
And again, at a certain point, the pendulum will swing
back a lot of that passion. Now we'll go back
to the We'll go back to say, you know, the
center or left of center, depending on you know, kind
(16:26):
of how you define yourself in the spectrum, and we'll
be here ready to get them all signed up together.
So tell me about the monetization model. You have some
pretty interesting ways that you're going to monetize this platform.
Of course, this podcast is called follow the Profit, So
what is the profit model for the future of Gether? Yeah?
So this this is really exciting and when I'm not
(16:48):
in a detention center of Brazil, this is what I
spent all my time really thinking of and how to
go and put together. Um. So, one of the key
differentials between US and say Facebook or Twitter is we
will never sell or share any user data. This is
a big one. This is right off the top of
you look at Facebook and Twitter, whether it's in their
their early papers when they're going public and they said
(17:09):
we were essentially data companies. We're gonna make money from
selling user data. Um And that's that's their business models,
what they're doing. It's something that I can tell you
a lot of folks, not just in the US, but
around the world are vehemently opposed to. So we've decided
to stake out that space and say we'll never sell
or share your data. The first aspect of monetization that
(17:29):
will come up will be online appreciation, online tipping. That
will be coming up probably say probably say it's coming
up probably about four to six weeks. I think we're
out where say, if you're a follow the money, or
if it's going to follow the profit, or if you're
someone who has a YouTube show or someone who is
(17:49):
a different kind of content creator where people can either
offer say tips or I know they do bits on
things like Twitch, things like that where you can go
and essentially give you know, or we see that decentralization
of a lot of this from say sub stack or Patreon,
a number of these different models. We think that will
help recruit a lot of content creators to come to
the platform therefore bring a lot of their followers. So,
(18:12):
and obviously we'll do it in a model where we
charge much less than than say Apple or or even
Rumble or anything else that's out there. Because it is
a platform, you can do it for a lot less.
It's just I think for quite a while, Apple's kind
of a little bit of a highway robbery with what
they've been able to charge, So we'll charge we'll take
much less off the top than what other essentially hosts
(18:35):
are going to do. That would be kind of the
initial phase Ralscope. We will start working on some advertising
after the first of the year. The reason why I
put that off it's kind of want to make sure
that the platform UH diversifies more and we get people
from a kind of a broader audience, both domestic and
internationally before we start doing ads, as we can make
sure that it's you know, like I can tell you
if I opened up for advertising right now, I'd be
(18:57):
full and have great advertising, but it would you know,
it would be very much you know, campaign ads are
different people um chiming in that have a you know,
pretty pretty similar worldview, and I don't think it'd be
as fond attract as brought of a reach of advertisers.
But the big prize, and again this is going to
the follow the profit is we ultimately want to launch
(19:17):
get or pay UH not just purely is a marketplace
competitor to say, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Google Pay, Ali Pay,
we Chat pay, and go kind of all the way
down the list, because there's a massive, massive chunk not
just in the US but around the world that is
not being reached out to or UM trying to be
brought into the electronic payments UH and the way that
(19:41):
certain parts of the country are, certain parts of the
world already are, but even going beyond that, I think
as we start looking and we have some very specific
ideas of thought out, we're putting together teams and building
toward it. UM some different aspects of working in blockchain
when he gets into the lending space, so that you
have a lot of people again not just in the US,
but around the world. You know what, I don't want
to have invest in companies that where everything goes through China,
(20:05):
everything goes through the CCP. I want to know that
this is gonna, These are gonna people to support freedom
and democracy. Want to make sure that I'm not getting
again the highway robbery. I'm not paying way too much
to certain online payment processing systems that again in my opinion,
or take way too high of the fee. A lot
(20:25):
of these things can be done a lot cheaper to
provide value and savings to customers, but also to make
sure that if there's someone who very strongly believes that,
say they're concerned again about you know, China or some
of the uh, some of the other international concerns, that
they don't have to go and invest money in or
spend money with those places. So a lot of the
(20:47):
ideas I'll lead back to this competition, Right, you want
to compete in the sense that you want to offer
alternatives because you feel like this area is right for disruption.
Tell me a little bit about that, because you're you're
not only talking about modern can you're talking about payments.
You're talking about just an alternative ecosystem where people are crazy. Yeah,
I mean, look, it's when we talk about right American
(21:08):
and Blue America. And by the way, almost every country
on the planet has has their own version of a
you know, red or blue America. You know, people might
define themselves differently, the parties might be different, uh, the
ideologies might be different. But then, like I mean, it's
with information now, you don't have to be told to
just think one thing. You can you have your your
al the car options for for consuming news and social
(21:30):
media and stuff. But there are especially as the h
A lot of this is kind of an extension what
we've seen over the last ten twenty years, maybe even
thirty years in the US, we're starting moving towards different societies,
not so much based on party, but really kind of
based on this UH, these kind of the global elites
(21:50):
versus the the hourly wage earners UH. And different people
define it in different ways. And whether that's Brexit passing
or President Trump winning or UH President ball Snara winning,
or we saw the yellow vest UH protests in France,
there were people are impact in different ways. You have
a large part of the world quite frankly, nobody's reaching
(22:11):
out to them and saying we want to go and
bring you to electronic payment for forms. We want to
go and make things cheaper and easier and more accessible
for you. You kind of have folks who are in
the bigger cities, more urban areas, a lot of them
younger her, participating in one economy UM. And then you
have other folks who very much function in a different economy.
(22:34):
And I think that's one of the untold stories of
say COVID with the shutdowns for example, that I think
will come out in future years when people look and say,
you know what, it's kind of easy to hang out
in the basement if your salaried worker. Uh, and just
hook up your zoom call and uh, you know, we
can catch up on Netflix until there's you realize there's
only one season, uh, Tiger King, and then you're super
(22:55):
bummed out. But if you're safe, for example, if you're
like you know mild man who's a welder grown up
in Seattle. Guess what he wasn't on salary? You know,
it's either you show up and you work and you
get early wage or you don't. And uh, people get impacted.
People are impacted by by COVID in different ways. So
it's kind of example of just yeah, people from all
(23:15):
walks of life, but a big chunk of our country,
big chunk of the world, nobody is reaching out and said,
we want to bring this technology to you, we want
to bring these payment platforms to you, we want to
give you, give you some of these abilities, and I
hope to fill that void. So let's talk about politics
(23:39):
a little bit, and it this parlays into what you
just said disaffected voters. Right, do you think it's the
end of Trump is um here? Or are you pushing
him to run in Well, of course I am, and
I kind of wear it on my sleeve. And I'm
a big Trump supporter. I told him that last night
when I saw him. Um, So I don't make any
any bones about that, but I think that, um, you know,
(24:01):
I think one of the things we saw with President
Trump there wasn't just look and I know a lot
of folks have have their own opinion to do. I
don't think there's anyone who's truly in the middle. I
think you like him or you don't like him. Um,
but I do think that there's uh, he's really other
than probably Jackson, uh, you know, probably the first president
who truly was a real outsider. And I think one
(24:23):
of the things we saw was just how hard the
swamp fights back and uh, you know it used to
be in Washington that uh you know, you get Democrat.
Republican says I want to spend eighty million. Democrats says
I want to spend a hundred million. They compromise and
spend a hundred fifty million. Right, let's just hey, we'll
just spend all the money. That's kind of the way
it's been done. But when you really start to try
to make changes, uh to Washington, then it's like who
(24:46):
moved my cheese? Okay, well, guess what this impacts a
couple hundred thousand people, So, you know, try to move
the cheese of a couple hundred thousand people, they fight
back and they start shooting Attie. And I still think
we have a way to go to to close that
gap about how certain folks the in the country, their
their wealth is growing these uh massive levels. You have
other folks who really haven't seen true wage growth in
(25:08):
two or three decades. Well, you're talking to someone in
the middle. I'd like to correct you, Jason. I you
will see nothing of me saying something good or bad
about President Rum, So you're actually talking to someone who
doesn't feel strongly either way. I guess it's more of
I'm I see it as a symptom of what you're
talking about, which is disaffected voters, disengagement, uh, lack of
(25:31):
economic you know, opportunity in many parts of our country
and the world, and that's why we're seeing these populous
insurgencies around the world. And I don't think it's anywhere
close to ending, as you just suggested, So what can
we do? Well, I would say, yeah, And if I
made it sound like it's it was close to ending, uh,
then I misspoke or maybe I wasn't as clear as
(25:53):
as I should have been. And I think when I
think we still have quite a ways to go. Um
and and again this this isn't just an issue in
the US. US, and this is you know, we're seeing
a lot of We're seeing protests and things pop up
all over the world. So I would agree that where
there's still a ways to go. It's why I still
think that we need. I think there's still some course
corrections when it comes to the economy and other things
that really, uh, you know, particularly in the US, I
(26:16):
think we uh, you know, as much I hate to
go back and say, you know, where's my ross Parrow
was right? T shirt, Uh you know, like ross Parrow
was right, you know, I mean when he talked about
the great sucking sound. And you can go to literally
towns in Ohio and um in Michigan and Pennsylvania that
Trump ended up winning in twos sixteen. They can trace
a lot of that back to that one particular trade deal,
(26:38):
for example. So I do think that there's I think
for too long our country said that, uh, the same
manufacturing jobs are bad, not bad, but we don't have
to have those. We'd rather have the cheap flat screen
rather than have the manufacturing jobs. Again, that's oversimplification, but
you know, you extrapolated out by a couple of decades
and we find ourselves where we kind of don't even
(26:59):
make anything, which that weakness was exposed the beginning of COVID.
It's a massive problem, everything from rare earth minerals to
supply shortages across the world. And it seems like we've
created a nightmare for ourselves. But it doesn't seem like
four years of Trump as I'm solved that problem. It
seems like that's just a pattern that continues innovated. You know,
(27:22):
I'd pushed back a little bit on that and say
that I think there are I think there's certain parts
of continued both on some of the domestic policy. I
think the way that President Trump had the way he
changed the trade dynamic. So uh, look, prior to to
President Trump, trade wasn't even issue. I mean, in fact,
to the extent that trade did come up is very
(27:44):
much more the say, Capital Washington, D c. Type Republicans
saying that we need to have absolutely unbridled free trade.
There shouldn't even be uh, you know, you shouldn't even
have a single dollar tariff going towards China, And I
think President Trump has really kind of gotten folks thinking through, Okay,
what does this mean, um if we if we don't
(28:05):
make anything here anymore, or what what has happened to
some of these uh, these towns and the mid Midwest
and the rust belt quite quite frankly all over especially
like manufacturing things like that all around the all around
the country that shut down over the last couple of decades.
So I think the image there's has changed. The importance
is now realized. I think with foreign policy, the fact
(28:26):
that getting America to stop being the world cop, I
think it's something that's much more accepted as being kind
of the mainstream as opposed to, hey, let's be the
global interventionist. I do think there's been a course correction
on that. So I do think there's some very and
look the other thing that point to Also, people used
(28:46):
to say, you know, Middle East piece, that's insane, that's crazy.
Who would ever think that's possible? Who would have thought
that President Trump would have done more on the Middle
East peace front than uh, any other president in US history.
Everything you're saying is correct. I mean, the narrative has
changed on those three issues, and you definitely are correct
on that. I guess with four years of Trump is um,
(29:08):
we still saw out of control spending. And you know
that would be my biggest critique of the era was that,
you know, a lot of positioning about fiscal conservatism was had,
but a lot of men was taken. So you know,
a problem in Washington. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't disagree with
you on that point at all. I think the I
(29:30):
think a lot of a lot of folks, including Trump
supporters people are not Trump supporters, would agree that that
someone's been a problem because I guess what a certain point,
that little thing called inflation catches up with you. Um,
and then you go and like whoa gases? How much
a gallant? Or you know, how much is it for
a loaf of bread? Or even you know, as people
(29:50):
saw it, here's the increase even on something like a
used car. So no, a certain point, printing money does
catch up with you. Yeah, and you know, it's hard
to fight back against spending proposals when the last administration
didn't really do anything about it, and congressional Republicans did
try to do something about it, Many many moons Ago
and seemed to have lost that gusto during the Trump administration.
(30:12):
And if you're wanting to know what expensive gases like,
you're on Sunset Bulevard in Los Angeles. It's in case
you wanted to go for that for premium, I drive
an OUTI so I gotta, I gotta. Okay, Um, So
where do we find out more about you? I mean,
you're this character that occasionally, you know, rises up and
we hear about you, mostly through ghet Her. Where else
(30:34):
can we find more about you? I saw you that
you are your good sport, you said with the New
York Times, he said, with all sorts of media outlets.
I guess you subscribed to the Trump is a maximum?
You know, all press is good. Where else can we
find you? Besides the show? Of course? Uh yeah, I
wouldn't go quite that far. The all press is good.
But I think I'm I'm a living example of that.
(30:56):
But look, I you know where I do disagree with
some of my conservative friends is that Uh look, you
know I do have it at New York Times, in
Washington Post and subscriptions. I even get The Economist coming
in hot every Saturday through the Uh you know, through
the mailbox here at home. But I think it's it's
important to to have a dialogue and different people are
gonna have different worldviews. UM. But if if you're not
(31:19):
at the table, you're not part of the conversation. And
so that that's kind of my approach on things is
that's what I'm trying to do with Getters that look,
if I'm if I'm too chicken, you know what, to
show up and talk to Kara Swisher. How is anyone
ever going to take me seriously? UH is running a
tech company and being someone who wants to compete with
the big boys, They're not going to UM. So I
think the Carrot Swisher interview UH with the New York Times,
(31:40):
I think would be a great place to go covered
a lot of the same topics that we did here. UM.
I also say you can follow me at Jason Miller
and d C on Getter. I do have the same
handle on Twitter, but you don't need to go to
Twitter anymore. Getters way more fun UM And I think
there's a couple of those are a couple of good
places that I think to UH. I think to to
give a start UM and it kind of gives you
(32:01):
a sense of the the approach and uh what we're
trying to do. I want this to be a platform
for everybody, and I want to make sure that, uh,
you know, when people start getting the you know, the
warning or you've been putting time out for uh twelve
hours and you're not sure why or what you said,
you know that if you didn't say anything that was
there was you know, illegal or infringing on someone else's
(32:23):
free speech rights, you know what, it's time to create
that gettor account. Yeah, maybe we should apply a warning
label to this interview because you know, that's how it
all started exactly now it's I mean, it's going back
to look. I mean, do you remember the first album
that you bought they had uh prontal explicit lyrics on it,
(32:43):
one of those labels. Of course I knew the FCC
chairman who put those on there. So what was but
what was your was like, what was the first album
you bought that had one of those labels on? You know,
I didn't buy a lot of albums. My brother, he
didn't have one album that didn't have that label. Every
(33:03):
single one of them had that label. I believe Nirvana
never Mind was one that stands out to me with
the baby. Of course he was recently in the news.
Oh wait, did Ivana have Okay, I don't remember Nirvana having,
you know, I remember for me it was it was
n w A. You know, like every every great white
kid in the suburbs. You know, I heard n w
A and I was like, and uh, you know, when
(33:23):
I'm in your neighborhood, you better duck. I mean it's
just uh, you know, loved n w A. So that's uh,
that's great. Remember that was the first one. And uh,
look there's but there's in all seriousness, there's different between
you know, putting on a label for kids and going
and saying that here's your opinion on uh, you know,
current current politics is uh maybe somehow discounted or needs
(33:45):
to have you know, this person isn't really telling the
truth when they believe that they're they're given their factual
opinion on something. Well, I think just talking to people
always help. So thank you for doing that, and thank
you for continuing the converse station, because I feel like
the problem with political discourse in this country is that
people don't sit down and actually listen to the other side.
(34:06):
So congrats on all your success and we look forward
to hearing more about you. Excellent. Well, stay safe out
there in California. Appreciate having me on the show. And
we've got to get your Getter account set up. Social
media it's something that's not going to go away easily.
You can deactivate your account, you can pretend it doesn't exist,
(34:29):
but really usage is going up. There's billions of people
around the world using social media and during the pandemic,
usage went up by percent. That's according to an estimate
by the company We are Social. And they gave another
statistic that really left me shocked was that the average
social media user spends one waking day every week on
(34:50):
social media, so it's coming to occupy a lot of
our time. And in fact, another statistic they gave that's
really important is that percent. So virtually everyone who's on
one social media platform is on another. And here's another
thing you need to know. Most social media is consumed
on mobile. Yes, you're not the only one using it
on your phone. And it doesn't seem like too long
(35:12):
ago that phones were new and we were still doing
everything on a desktop. Well, now mobiles everything. In fact,
it's the wave of the future for all business so
every organization, including social media platforms, have to really ponder
how is my content being viewed? And really the answer
is mostly on mobile and if they want to make money,
(35:33):
just like Gettor, just like Facebook, Twitter, everyone's thinking about this.
They have to think about their integration through of mobile
into their business model. And fundamentally everything's moving toward a
mobile centric world, especially with e commerce. We buy everything
online and the pandemic really rushed that transition and made
(35:55):
it a reality for all of us. So you might
be thinking social media is pretty annoying, and it actually
is pretty annoying. In fact, it's the plot line of
many movies we see these days. I watched He's All
That last night on Netflix, which is of course a
remake of She's All That, a nineties movie, and the
whole plot was about the main character being an influencer
(36:15):
on Instagram and getting sponsorships here in Los Angeles, And
really that's the world we live in. But like anything else,
things change and platforms will come and they will disrupt
the current platforms and a lot of these startups may
not go on, but they're gonna put up a good fight,
and like anything else in American society, competition is key
(36:36):
to moving things forward. I'm David Grasso. If you enjoyed
the podcast, please give me five stars so that others
could learn about this podcast. Thanks to all of you
for joining me as we all followed the provident. A
big thanks to Jason Miller of get Her. This was
an interview that I could have gone anyway, and Jason
was a great sport, so we really appreciate that. And
of course, censorship and cancel culture is a big concern
(36:59):
for a lot of Americans on the left and the right,
and alternative platforms see exactly what many see, which is
a business opportunity to give people an alternative ecosystem. So
I'd like to thank my hard working team, Rob Cheyenne Scott,
the rest of my staff, and our executive producers New
Gingrich and Gibbie Meyers Um David Grosso. If you haven't
(37:19):
noticed by now, if you'd like the show, give me
five stars and give us a review so that others
can learn what the show is all about. Follow The
Profit is a production of Gingridge three sixty and I
Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
get your Podcasts part of the game which
I'm David Grosso, and you're listening to follow the profit.
My guest today is a pretty interesting guy. He's best
known as the chief spokesperson and former president of Donald Trump,
so I'm sure he has a lot to say, and
he's now the founder of getting which is an alternative
social media platform. How you doing Jason, David, I'm doing
(00:23):
it well. Good be with you. So for those who
don't know what is Getter and why do we need
other social media platforms? Absolutely so. Get Her is a
free speech social media platform that we launched on July
four this year, so a little over two months old,
already over two million users, million in the US, million outside.
And as we've seen so much censorship coming up in
(00:46):
social media and what I believe is political discrimination that's
coming out, I want to make sure that there's more
competition in the social media space, that there's something where
people were we have smart, sensible moderation and policies, but
we also need to make sure that we have our
free speech rights protected and that there aren't different standards
(01:06):
that are applied to people based on, say, their political affiliation. Yeah,
how do you balance that? Because this is a really
difficult balancing act. Right, we want for people to express themselves,
but we also don't want situations where we're getting spammed
by some some pretty gnarly stuff while we're online. Yeah. Now,
and you know what, I spent a lot of time
(01:28):
dealing with moderation. So they're going kind of for folks
who may or may not have kind of the granular
detail on this. So for most folks in the Western world,
free speech rights really extend about to the point where
you start to infringe on somebody else's free speech or
become say illegal or hurtful type commentary. And so in
(01:48):
our policies we make it very clear that we don't
put up with any illegal acts or threats to commit
illegal acts, or pornography or say, you know, ISIS or
terrorist type behaviors. That's that's actually a difference between say
US and Twitter, as the Taliban would not be allowed
to be on our platform, but they are on there
on Twitter. Um. But so what we have is both
(02:10):
an AI system that is set up artificial intelligence that
goes in say, for example, someone wanted to try to
post a beheading video or something like that, we'd catch
that and stop it right away. But then also we
have human moderators to go through to make sure that
things are being interpreted as in the right context. I'll
give you an example. This is a little bit in
the weeds, but folks might find it interesting. An entire
(02:31):
conference call and brought the team together because the picture
of a gentleman who posted effectively like ten sandwiches on
top of each other higher than his head while he's
at the table with a fork in one hand and
knife on the other got picked up because of the
knife in his hand. And obviously it was a gentleman
who just was really, really really hungry. You know, he's
been goofy as far as a photo it was putting on.
(02:52):
So we'll hold on the guy. Clearly it's a butter knife.
Clearly is not like, you know, threatening to do anything.
Why do you get picked up? And we actually went
through and we have that literally six different gradations of
knife imagery, and so what we decide is this should
have been the AI should have picked it up. There
was only a butter knife and not something where seemed
to be doing harm or not near someone's throat or
something like that. We want to look. We're never going
(03:14):
to get it right. A hundred percent at a time,
But we want to be sensitive and we want to
protect people. Obviously, if someone did have a knife to
the throat, that's not imagery that we would want on there.
But at the same time, we want to make sure
that we're doing after action reviews to make sure not
being too strict within so there's a balance. But again,
the kind of the value proposition I think with Getter
is that we're never going to go in censor or
(03:36):
deep platform people for speaking their political beliefs, and I
think that is with so much of the divide that's
going on in the country right now, I want to
make sure that people have a place where they always
know that their free speech right it's gonna be protected,
whether on the right or the left. And quite frankly,
a lot of the free speech debates uh in the
US and in recent even longer history have been pursued
(03:58):
by those who reviewed on the on the political left.
And so the pendulum is going to swing back, and
I want to make sure that what it does, all
of my friends on the left have a place where
they can go. No, they're not going to have big
tech to on the way they can or can't think Yeah,
so everything kind of already happened together, right, You already
got spammed, you already had data issues and whatnot. What
(04:20):
have you learned so far? Because it seems like it's
not easy to operate in the sense that you're doing.
You're at the nexus of some of the most controversial
stuff on earth, which is Donald Trump and social media
all in one little cocktail. Do you want to try
anything harder? Jason, Yeah, exactly. Maybe maybe juggling chainsaws or
(04:41):
you know, trying to across the Grand Canyon on a
on a tight rope. You know, those those might be
my uh, you know for next summer activities that if
I can get through this one. Um. But now it's
a look, it's it's a fight. I think that's worth having. Um.
I think that. I think also I think there's just
a lack of excitement in general with a lot of
social media platforms that are out there right now. And
I very much believe that if you go and tell people, hey,
(05:04):
you're not allowed to have this this belief anymore, or
if you're going to go and try to, you know,
chop off seventy million people in the country and say
we don't want to be part of the conversation, Well,
guess what, they're still going to have their opinions. They're
just going to go and keep themselves and becoming more
frustrated and more angry, or the country further is further
divided from my opinion I'm trying to do. I want
to make sure that everyone has a place where they
(05:26):
can come to and I think with some of the
cool features and different things we're doing together, I hope
you start attracting more people from the left. I think
our international presence, the fact that we have half of
our user base outside the Countrol already is a big
differential from other upstart platforms in the past. I mean literally,
I'll tell you this. Yesterday on that after the news
(05:47):
of my being held against my will, I guess you
could say in Brazil we had fifty thousand sign ups
just from Brazil alone, our second biggest sign up day
ever after July four when we kicked off. And so
this thing is on. This thing is catching on like
wildfire all around the planet. So how do we get here, Jason,
Because you've been in politics for a long time, whether
(06:07):
you're from the left or the right, Let's take off
the labels here, Why do we live in a world
where we're afraid of people saying certain things and that
we're offended at everything? Good question. So I think we're
and I'm going to put it a little bit more
specific to the digital space to try to avoid um,
people just saying you know, hey, I'm on the left,
(06:27):
I'm on the right. Um. And then you know, people
auto actually just put on their blue or red jerseys
and then the conversation kind of gets nowhere. So what
some folks might know and some folks might not, is
it back in the nineties, back when we had blogs
and a O L and you have that real weird
noise when you're getting on the internet. Um, they went
past they would pass the essentially the governing rules for
(06:49):
how the internet and social media are are covered. So
they have this thing called Section to thirty which allows
social media platforms to essentially not be held liable for
content that's that's put on there as long as they're
not going in in uh say, voicing editorial type things
and are the ones who are who are picking everything
that happens. And so that way, your your platform, not
(07:11):
a publisher. So a publisher would be again that could
be like the New York Times, you know, like you
know New York Times Online or Washington Posts where they're
liabel and on the hook for every letter, every character
that comes out, because that's that's what they're doing. They're
help liabel. It's different. They can have opinion, do these things.
And I think at a certain point that I think
(07:32):
these social media companies decided that they were going to
be the ones who were the arbiters of what is
real and what is not real. And I'll give you
an example on a couple of things. There's some things
Obviously you're gonna have people on both sides and go
and say crazy things at a certain point. But let
me just give you, like just some of the signs.
There were a lot of instances last year, is say,
(07:54):
COVID nineteen was starting to rage and to take off
where you had some of the social media companies are saying, well,
you can't go and say definitively that the virus is
from a lab and wuhan that's being being to the
people in China. I'm slightly over generalizing, but I'm making
this uh acknowledging that and people get put into time out,
digital time out, so to speak. Well, you know, shocker,
(08:16):
We did find out that the virus, not saying it's
man made necessarily, we don't know that for sure, but
it did come from a lab in Wuhan. That's pretty
much well accepted. Science changes the way that we I mean,
I'm someone who's vaccinated, but I'm old enough to remember
I was told that if you've got the one shot
of the vaccination or two shots, if you've got to
save Maderna, that you're fine, that you're protecting its COVID. Well,
(08:37):
then we find out like we're not necessarily, you're gonna
have to be getting jobs for for a while. So
science changes, we learn more, facts change. Uh, And I
think that we have to be real careful. Say, if
you're social media company, when you decided to start coming
and playing judge during executioner with the truth, Uh, you've
got to be careful and something because especially when it
(08:57):
comes to political opinions. Um, you know, one person's truth
is another person's falsey and vice versa, and you've got
to really be careful. Hey, are you committed to making
sure you have free speech? Are you committed to making
sure people believe what you believe? I think that's a
key distinction, which one what we do versus some of
the other platforms. So how do we draw that line though,
because it's hard, right, because you have some some personalities
(09:19):
on your platform that say things that some people would
consider extremely false, including myself. You know, I don't agree
with everyone everything that everyone says, and you know, I
don't think there's anything dangerous about expressing an opinion, but
other people definitely think that, and in fact, that's mainstream
thought these days, right, But that's that's dangerous to say that,
(09:39):
that's disinformation, that's making the world not a better place.
So how do we balance this? I mean, this is
directly pinning half of the population against the f Yeah, well,
I think part of it. Let's go back to the
very beginning, kind of the the underpinning, so to speak,
of what free speech is about, and the kind of
the north star we have. And again I'll admit, we're
(10:02):
not going to get it right every single time, you know,
do our best to try to, but it's going to
be a growing process that your free speech rights should
extend up until the point where they're either infringing on
someone else's free speech rights or until it's pushing into
illegal behavior or say the threatening behavior towards hurting someone.
And so if someone's offering up their political viewpoint or
(10:23):
their personal experiences, say dealing with UH, with the medical
issues or COVID or things like that, where people want
to talk about, here's what I think how we should
be approached a certain issue. And you know, and it's
not all politics. It's not get or it's not just
everything all all politics. Obviously that's where a lot of
the passion is. Admittedly right now is in kind of
the right of center space. Like I said, I hope
(10:43):
to continue broadening and get a lot more folks on.
So we do have folks like Jorge Moss at all
from the UFC and Gina Karano from the Mandalorian although
she's still Mandalorian and she get booted, but anyway, she's
I'm glad she's on our platform, but I'm not UM,
as I said when she joined the platform. You know, uh, Gina,
you know thinks or being the biggest badass and multiple galaxy.
So it's cool to have her on UM, but we
(11:06):
you know, we want to make sure that really your rights,
your ability go and talk about what as long as
you're not infringing on someone else's rights or threatening some
kind of illegal behavior. Uh. And so we do have
we do have a moderation policy. We do tell folks
were not going to put up with any racial or
religious epithets. We're not going to allow you to go
(11:26):
threatened illegal behavior docs people or things like that. And
we've had that from day one. Now obviously we've improved
on some of those, uh systems since we started, as
I kind of gave you that a little bit example earlier.
But that north star is your rights extend up to
the point where they start to infringe on somebody else's rights.
The ability or the right for you to punch me
stops at the bridge of my nose, as I believe
(11:47):
the saying goes. So let's talk about the go ahead now.
I was gonna say, look, you know, and the courts
have been pretty clear on them. You uh, you know
the proverbial you cannot walk into a crowded movie theater
and fire. Uh. You know, if you go into a
restaurant and hurl a racial epithet um, you know, odds
are you know it won't just be legal. Ramifications are
probably gonna get knuckle sandwich of your own. Um, And
(12:10):
so that's but now I think your analogy is a
little better. So I'm to steal that music at the
future if you don't mind, of course. I mean the
best ideas are stolen. Let's talk about the most famous
(12:31):
case of d platform ing, which is of course, former
President Trump. And you've made it very clear. I've watched
a lot of your interviews. You've been a good sport.
You sit with all types of media and talk about
your platform. Right, You've been not so quiet about trying
to get President Trump on your platform. How's that going?
And what can you comment about that. I'm working it.
I'm the biggest squeaky will that there has ever been.
(12:53):
And so I saw President Trump last night when visited
him at Bedminster, and worked on him for another half hour.
We we not yet have smoke coming out of the Vatican,
but I'm continuing to work it, and I'm optimistic about
the direction that's going. But here's the thing, Um, I
think that we have a great piece of technology, and
then we have a lot of fun, cool people that
(13:13):
are on the platform. Um. And as I start noticing,
I spent a lot of time on just go I
care about the user experience. I can convince people to
go and check out the platform, but if it's not
fun that people don't wake up and say, hey, let
me check out what's going on and get her, then uh,
then it's just it's not worth it. So I very
much invested in trying to make sure that it's a fun,
uh user friendly type type platform. I am really impressed
(13:37):
with the way that the conversation. Now again, it's not
just on politics. I mean it's a lot about life. Uh.
It's people who are seeing people from other countries, and
you know, for you know, I know many people in
the media A lot of times I want to go
and say that anyone who say, you know, right of
center populist, you know, there must be some kind of
uh you know, inward looking troglodyte that you know doesn't
(13:57):
interact with people from other countries and in different cultures.
And I got to tell you, I've interacted with people
from other countries more in the past two months, uh
than I probably have ever in my life. Um. It's
you know, it's great to know the people all around
the world that really appreciate free speech. Um, you know,
whether they're secretly doing it via VPN from China, or
someone who's in the democracy that should have better free
(14:20):
speech rights like Brazil, or even the people who you
know are good folks across the pond in the UK.
And so I love kind of this back and forth
and the fact that people are excited about a free
speech platform. So let's talk about the back and forth
a lot of times on Twitter. Half the fun is
seeing people who are different, you know, fight with each other,
right we we we tend to like stories where there's tension.
(14:42):
How are you going to bring that tension if you're
disproportionately attracting conservatives? Well, again, that's real. Right now, a
lot of the passion is in the right of center space.
But we're making a strong effort to try to both
hire some people to recruit more leftist center folks, but
then also try, excuse me, trying to get more people
kind of athletes and entertainers, people like that, when we
(15:03):
put together some some deals or partnerships to try to
bring them on board. But in the meantime, here's what
I can do. I can go and attract people who
quite frankly, don't build themselves as being political minded. Maybe
they're just more to two different things, and politics is
not what they drive. There might be people from different countries, uh,
not necessarily. You know, people who wake up in Japan
(15:24):
don't build themselves as republicans or democrats. Um. You know,
people who wake up and Brazil don't brand themselves as
tories or labor. Each country is going to have kind
of their own approach. What I can do is I
can expand or international profile, and I can bring in
a lot of people who maybe aren't that big into
politics at all. And over time, I think is the uh, look,
(15:45):
we're probably one big kind of explosive event away from
the pendulum starting to swing back. So say, for example, look,
it wasn't that long ago, for example, you know, whether
be gay rights or women's rights, or you know, going
back more forty years ago. Uh, you know, forty two
years ago where African Americans had a different set of
First Amendment rights, or they were especially certain areas of
(16:05):
the country there their first Amen was a lot different
from uh, from white folks First Amendment. UM. And so
it's the pendulum swings and impacts everyone across across the country. UM.
And again, at a certain point, the pendulum will swing
back a lot of that passion. Now we'll go back
to the We'll go back to say, you know, the
center or left of center, depending on you know, kind
(16:26):
of how you define yourself in the spectrum, and we'll
be here ready to get them all signed up together.
So tell me about the monetization model. You have some
pretty interesting ways that you're going to monetize this platform.
Of course, this podcast is called follow the Profit, So
what is the profit model for the future of Gether? Yeah?
So this this is really exciting and when I'm not
(16:48):
in a detention center of Brazil, this is what I
spent all my time really thinking of and how to
go and put together. Um. So, one of the key
differentials between US and say Facebook or Twitter is we
will never sell or share any user data. This is
a big one. This is right off the top of
you look at Facebook and Twitter, whether it's in their
their early papers when they're going public and they said
(17:09):
we were essentially data companies. We're gonna make money from
selling user data. Um And that's that's their business models,
what they're doing. It's something that I can tell you
a lot of folks, not just in the US, but
around the world are vehemently opposed to. So we've decided
to stake out that space and say we'll never sell
or share your data. The first aspect of monetization that
(17:29):
will come up will be online appreciation, online tipping. That
will be coming up probably say probably say it's coming
up probably about four to six weeks. I think we're
out where say, if you're a follow the money, or
if it's going to follow the profit, or if you're
someone who has a YouTube show or someone who is
(17:49):
a different kind of content creator where people can either
offer say tips or I know they do bits on
things like Twitch, things like that where you can go
and essentially give you know, or we see that decentralization
of a lot of this from say sub stack or Patreon,
a number of these different models. We think that will
help recruit a lot of content creators to come to
the platform therefore bring a lot of their followers. So,
(18:12):
and obviously we'll do it in a model where we
charge much less than than say Apple or or even
Rumble or anything else that's out there. Because it is
a platform, you can do it for a lot less.
It's just I think for quite a while, Apple's kind
of a little bit of a highway robbery with what
they've been able to charge, So we'll charge we'll take
much less off the top than what other essentially hosts
(18:35):
are going to do. That would be kind of the
initial phase Ralscope. We will start working on some advertising
after the first of the year. The reason why I
put that off it's kind of want to make sure
that the platform UH diversifies more and we get people
from a kind of a broader audience, both domestic and
internationally before we start doing ads, as we can make
sure that it's you know, like I can tell you
if I opened up for advertising right now, I'd be
(18:57):
full and have great advertising, but it would you know,
it would be very much you know, campaign ads are
different people um chiming in that have a you know,
pretty pretty similar worldview, and I don't think it'd be
as fond attract as brought of a reach of advertisers.
But the big prize, and again this is going to
the follow the profit is we ultimately want to launch
(19:17):
get or pay UH not just purely is a marketplace
competitor to say, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Google Pay, Ali Pay,
we Chat pay, and go kind of all the way
down the list, because there's a massive, massive chunk not
just in the US but around the world that is
not being reached out to or UM trying to be
brought into the electronic payments UH and the way that
(19:41):
certain parts of the country are, certain parts of the
world already are, but even going beyond that, I think
as we start looking and we have some very specific
ideas of thought out, we're putting together teams and building
toward it. UM some different aspects of working in blockchain
when he gets into the lending space, so that you
have a lot of people again not just in the US,
but around the world. You know what, I don't want
to have invest in companies that where everything goes through China,
(20:05):
everything goes through the CCP. I want to know that
this is gonna, These are gonna people to support freedom
and democracy. Want to make sure that I'm not getting
again the highway robbery. I'm not paying way too much
to certain online payment processing systems that again in my opinion,
or take way too high of the fee. A lot
(20:25):
of these things can be done a lot cheaper to
provide value and savings to customers, but also to make
sure that if there's someone who very strongly believes that,
say they're concerned again about you know, China or some
of the uh, some of the other international concerns, that
they don't have to go and invest money in or
spend money with those places. So a lot of the
(20:47):
ideas I'll lead back to this competition, Right, you want
to compete in the sense that you want to offer
alternatives because you feel like this area is right for disruption.
Tell me a little bit about that, because you're you're
not only talking about modern can you're talking about payments.
You're talking about just an alternative ecosystem where people are crazy. Yeah,
I mean, look, it's when we talk about right American
(21:08):
and Blue America. And by the way, almost every country
on the planet has has their own version of a
you know, red or blue America. You know, people might
define themselves differently, the parties might be different, uh, the
ideologies might be different. But then, like I mean, it's
with information now, you don't have to be told to
just think one thing. You can you have your your
al the car options for for consuming news and social
(21:30):
media and stuff. But there are especially as the h
A lot of this is kind of an extension what
we've seen over the last ten twenty years, maybe even
thirty years in the US, we're starting moving towards different societies,
not so much based on party, but really kind of
based on this UH, these kind of the global elites
(21:50):
versus the the hourly wage earners UH. And different people
define it in different ways. And whether that's Brexit passing
or President Trump winning or UH President ball Snara winning,
or we saw the yellow vest UH protests in France,
there were people are impact in different ways. You have
a large part of the world quite frankly, nobody's reaching
(22:11):
out to them and saying we want to go and
bring you to electronic payment for forms. We want to
go and make things cheaper and easier and more accessible
for you. You kind of have folks who are in
the bigger cities, more urban areas, a lot of them
younger her, participating in one economy UM. And then you
have other folks who very much function in a different economy.
(22:34):
And I think that's one of the untold stories of
say COVID with the shutdowns for example, that I think
will come out in future years when people look and say,
you know what, it's kind of easy to hang out
in the basement if your salaried worker. Uh, and just
hook up your zoom call and uh, you know, we
can catch up on Netflix until there's you realize there's
only one season, uh, Tiger King, and then you're super
(22:55):
bummed out. But if you're safe, for example, if you're
like you know mild man who's a welder grown up
in Seattle. Guess what he wasn't on salary? You know,
it's either you show up and you work and you
get early wage or you don't. And uh, people get impacted.
People are impacted by by COVID in different ways. So
it's kind of example of just yeah, people from all
(23:15):
walks of life, but a big chunk of our country,
big chunk of the world, nobody is reaching out and said,
we want to bring this technology to you, we want
to bring these payment platforms to you, we want to
give you, give you some of these abilities, and I
hope to fill that void. So let's talk about politics
(23:39):
a little bit, and it this parlays into what you
just said disaffected voters. Right, do you think it's the
end of Trump is um here? Or are you pushing
him to run in Well, of course I am, and
I kind of wear it on my sleeve. And I'm
a big Trump supporter. I told him that last night
when I saw him. Um, So I don't make any
any bones about that, but I think that, um, you know,
(24:01):
I think one of the things we saw with President
Trump there wasn't just look and I know a lot
of folks have have their own opinion to do. I
don't think there's anyone who's truly in the middle. I
think you like him or you don't like him. Um,
but I do think that there's uh, he's really other
than probably Jackson, uh, you know, probably the first president
who truly was a real outsider. And I think one
(24:23):
of the things we saw was just how hard the
swamp fights back and uh, you know it used to
be in Washington that uh you know, you get Democrat.
Republican says I want to spend eighty million. Democrats says
I want to spend a hundred million. They compromise and
spend a hundred fifty million. Right, let's just hey, we'll
just spend all the money. That's kind of the way
it's been done. But when you really start to try
to make changes, uh to Washington, then it's like who
(24:46):
moved my cheese? Okay, well, guess what this impacts a
couple hundred thousand people, So, you know, try to move
the cheese of a couple hundred thousand people, they fight
back and they start shooting Attie. And I still think
we have a way to go to to close that
gap about how certain folks the in the country, their
their wealth is growing these uh massive levels. You have
other folks who really haven't seen true wage growth in
(25:08):
two or three decades. Well, you're talking to someone in
the middle. I'd like to correct you, Jason. I you
will see nothing of me saying something good or bad
about President Rum, So you're actually talking to someone who
doesn't feel strongly either way. I guess it's more of
I'm I see it as a symptom of what you're
talking about, which is disaffected voters, disengagement, uh, lack of
(25:31):
economic you know, opportunity in many parts of our country
and the world, and that's why we're seeing these populous
insurgencies around the world. And I don't think it's anywhere
close to ending, as you just suggested, So what can
we do? Well, I would say, yeah, And if I
made it sound like it's it was close to ending, uh,
then I misspoke or maybe I wasn't as clear as
(25:53):
as I should have been. And I think when I
think we still have quite a ways to go. Um
and and again this this isn't just an issue in
the US. US, and this is you know, we're seeing
a lot of We're seeing protests and things pop up
all over the world. So I would agree that where
there's still a ways to go. It's why I still
think that we need. I think there's still some course
corrections when it comes to the economy and other things
that really, uh, you know, particularly in the US, I
(26:16):
think we uh, you know, as much I hate to
go back and say, you know, where's my ross Parrow
was right? T shirt, Uh you know, like ross Parrow
was right, you know, I mean when he talked about
the great sucking sound. And you can go to literally
towns in Ohio and um in Michigan and Pennsylvania that
Trump ended up winning in twos sixteen. They can trace
a lot of that back to that one particular trade deal,
(26:38):
for example. So I do think that there's I think
for too long our country said that, uh, the same
manufacturing jobs are bad, not bad, but we don't have
to have those. We'd rather have the cheap flat screen
rather than have the manufacturing jobs. Again, that's oversimplification, but
you know, you extrapolated out by a couple of decades
and we find ourselves where we kind of don't even
(26:59):
make anything, which that weakness was exposed the beginning of COVID.
It's a massive problem, everything from rare earth minerals to
supply shortages across the world. And it seems like we've
created a nightmare for ourselves. But it doesn't seem like
four years of Trump as I'm solved that problem. It
seems like that's just a pattern that continues innovated. You know,
(27:22):
I'd pushed back a little bit on that and say
that I think there are I think there's certain parts
of continued both on some of the domestic policy. I
think the way that President Trump had the way he
changed the trade dynamic. So uh, look, prior to to
President Trump, trade wasn't even issue. I mean, in fact,
to the extent that trade did come up is very
(27:44):
much more the say, Capital Washington, D c. Type Republicans
saying that we need to have absolutely unbridled free trade.
There shouldn't even be uh, you know, you shouldn't even
have a single dollar tariff going towards China, And I
think President Trump has really kind of gotten folks thinking through, Okay,
what does this mean, um if we if we don't
(28:05):
make anything here anymore, or what what has happened to
some of these uh, these towns and the mid Midwest
and the rust belt quite quite frankly all over especially
like manufacturing things like that all around the all around
the country that shut down over the last couple of decades.
So I think the image there's has changed. The importance
is now realized. I think with foreign policy, the fact
(28:26):
that getting America to stop being the world cop, I
think it's something that's much more accepted as being kind
of the mainstream as opposed to, hey, let's be the
global interventionist. I do think there's been a course correction
on that. So I do think there's some very and
look the other thing that point to Also, people used
(28:46):
to say, you know, Middle East piece, that's insane, that's crazy.
Who would ever think that's possible? Who would have thought
that President Trump would have done more on the Middle
East peace front than uh, any other president in US history.
Everything you're saying is correct. I mean, the narrative has
changed on those three issues, and you definitely are correct
on that. I guess with four years of Trump is um,
(29:08):
we still saw out of control spending. And you know
that would be my biggest critique of the era was that,
you know, a lot of positioning about fiscal conservatism was had,
but a lot of men was taken. So you know,
a problem in Washington. Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't disagree with
you on that point at all. I think the I
(29:30):
think a lot of a lot of folks, including Trump
supporters people are not Trump supporters, would agree that that
someone's been a problem because I guess what a certain point,
that little thing called inflation catches up with you. Um,
and then you go and like whoa gases? How much
a gallant? Or you know, how much is it for
a loaf of bread? Or even you know, as people
(29:50):
saw it, here's the increase even on something like a
used car. So no, a certain point, printing money does
catch up with you. Yeah, and you know, it's hard
to fight back against spending proposals when the last administration
didn't really do anything about it, and congressional Republicans did
try to do something about it, Many many moons Ago
and seemed to have lost that gusto during the Trump administration.
(30:12):
And if you're wanting to know what expensive gases like,
you're on Sunset Bulevard in Los Angeles. It's in case
you wanted to go for that for premium, I drive
an OUTI so I gotta, I gotta. Okay, Um, So
where do we find out more about you? I mean,
you're this character that occasionally, you know, rises up and
we hear about you, mostly through ghet Her. Where else
(30:34):
can we find more about you? I saw you that
you are your good sport, you said with the New
York Times, he said, with all sorts of media outlets.
I guess you subscribed to the Trump is a maximum?
You know, all press is good. Where else can we
find you? Besides the show? Of course? Uh yeah, I
wouldn't go quite that far. The all press is good.
But I think I'm I'm a living example of that.
(30:56):
But look, I you know where I do disagree with
some of my conservative friends is that Uh look, you
know I do have it at New York Times, in
Washington Post and subscriptions. I even get The Economist coming
in hot every Saturday through the Uh you know, through
the mailbox here at home. But I think it's it's
important to to have a dialogue and different people are
gonna have different worldviews. UM. But if if you're not
(31:19):
at the table, you're not part of the conversation. And
so that that's kind of my approach on things is
that's what I'm trying to do with Getters that look,
if I'm if I'm too chicken, you know what, to
show up and talk to Kara Swisher. How is anyone
ever going to take me seriously? UH is running a
tech company and being someone who wants to compete with
the big boys, They're not going to UM. So I
think the Carrot Swisher interview UH with the New York Times,
(31:40):
I think would be a great place to go covered
a lot of the same topics that we did here. UM.
I also say you can follow me at Jason Miller
and d C on Getter. I do have the same
handle on Twitter, but you don't need to go to
Twitter anymore. Getters way more fun UM And I think
there's a couple of those are a couple of good
places that I think to UH. I think to to
give a start UM and it kind of gives you
(32:01):
a sense of the the approach and uh what we're
trying to do. I want this to be a platform
for everybody, and I want to make sure that, uh,
you know, when people start getting the you know, the
warning or you've been putting time out for uh twelve
hours and you're not sure why or what you said,
you know that if you didn't say anything that was
there was you know, illegal or infringing on someone else's
(32:23):
free speech rights, you know what, it's time to create
that gettor account. Yeah, maybe we should apply a warning
label to this interview because you know, that's how it
all started exactly now it's I mean, it's going back
to look. I mean, do you remember the first album
that you bought they had uh prontal explicit lyrics on it,
(32:43):
one of those labels. Of course I knew the FCC
chairman who put those on there. So what was but
what was your was like, what was the first album
you bought that had one of those labels on? You know,
I didn't buy a lot of albums. My brother, he
didn't have one album that didn't have that label. Every
(33:03):
single one of them had that label. I believe Nirvana
never Mind was one that stands out to me with
the baby. Of course he was recently in the news.
Oh wait, did Ivana have Okay, I don't remember Nirvana having,
you know, I remember for me it was it was
n w A. You know, like every every great white
kid in the suburbs. You know, I heard n w
A and I was like, and uh, you know, when
(33:23):
I'm in your neighborhood, you better duck. I mean it's
just uh, you know, loved n w A. So that's uh,
that's great. Remember that was the first one. And uh,
look there's but there's in all seriousness, there's different between
you know, putting on a label for kids and going
and saying that here's your opinion on uh, you know,
current current politics is uh maybe somehow discounted or needs
(33:45):
to have you know, this person isn't really telling the
truth when they believe that they're they're given their factual
opinion on something. Well, I think just talking to people
always help. So thank you for doing that, and thank
you for continuing the converse station, because I feel like
the problem with political discourse in this country is that
people don't sit down and actually listen to the other side.
(34:06):
So congrats on all your success and we look forward
to hearing more about you. Excellent. Well, stay safe out
there in California. Appreciate having me on the show. And
we've got to get your Getter account set up. Social
media it's something that's not going to go away easily.
You can deactivate your account, you can pretend it doesn't exist,
(34:29):
but really usage is going up. There's billions of people
around the world using social media and during the pandemic,
usage went up by percent. That's according to an estimate
by the company We are Social. And they gave another
statistic that really left me shocked was that the average
social media user spends one waking day every week on
(34:50):
social media, so it's coming to occupy a lot of
our time. And in fact, another statistic they gave that's
really important is that percent. So virtually everyone who's on
one social media platform is on another. And here's another
thing you need to know. Most social media is consumed
on mobile. Yes, you're not the only one using it
on your phone. And it doesn't seem like too long
(35:12):
ago that phones were new and we were still doing
everything on a desktop. Well, now mobiles everything. In fact,
it's the wave of the future for all business so
every organization, including social media platforms, have to really ponder
how is my content being viewed? And really the answer
is mostly on mobile and if they want to make money,
(35:33):
just like Gettor, just like Facebook, Twitter, everyone's thinking about this.
They have to think about their integration through of mobile
into their business model. And fundamentally everything's moving toward a
mobile centric world, especially with e commerce. We buy everything
online and the pandemic really rushed that transition and made
(35:55):
it a reality for all of us. So you might
be thinking social media is pretty annoying, and it actually
is pretty annoying. In fact, it's the plot line of
many movies we see these days. I watched He's All
That last night on Netflix, which is of course a
remake of She's All That, a nineties movie, and the
whole plot was about the main character being an influencer
(36:15):
on Instagram and getting sponsorships here in Los Angeles, And
really that's the world we live in. But like anything else,
things change and platforms will come and they will disrupt
the current platforms and a lot of these startups may
not go on, but they're gonna put up a good fight,
and like anything else in American society, competition is key
(36:36):
to moving things forward. I'm David Grasso. If you enjoyed
the podcast, please give me five stars so that others
could learn about this podcast. Thanks to all of you
for joining me as we all followed the provident. A
big thanks to Jason Miller of get Her. This was
an interview that I could have gone anyway, and Jason
was a great sport, so we really appreciate that. And
of course, censorship and cancel culture is a big concern
(36:59):
for a lot of Americans on the left and the right,
and alternative platforms see exactly what many see, which is
a business opportunity to give people an alternative ecosystem. So
I'd like to thank my hard working team, Rob Cheyenne Scott,
the rest of my staff, and our executive producers New
Gingrich and Gibbie Meyers Um David Grosso. If you haven't
(37:19):
noticed by now, if you'd like the show, give me
five stars and give us a review so that others
can learn what the show is all about. Follow The
Profit is a production of Gingridge three sixty and I
Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
get your Podcasts part of the game which
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