October 8, 2021 • 38 mins
On this episode, David speaks with two pioneering women to discuss equality in the workplace. David is joined by Shelley Zalis. She is known as the “chief troublemaker,” a pioneer for online research, movement leader, and champion of gender equality. She is an internationally renowned entrepreneur, speaker, mentor, mother, and founder and CEO of The Female Quotient. Today, as CEO of The Female Quotient, Zalis works with Fortune 500 companies to advance gender equality across industries. Also joining in the conversation is Gina Glantz, who in her own bio says she is a serial organizer/shit stirrer/campaign tech innovator/grandmother. She is the founder of GenderAvenger, a non-profit dedicated to ensuring women are always part of the public dialog because women’s voices count.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm David Grosso, and you're listening to follow the profit
women in the Workplace. At every business and political conference
you attend, they'll probably be a panel about more women
in government, business, entertainment and more. But still a lot
of places aren't really putting in the work to bridge
(00:22):
the gap between men and women. Our guests today are
two powerful women, one of which I've met in real life,
not just on the Internet, who are working together to
put women in these leadership roles. Joining me our Gina Glance,
She's the founder of Gender Avenger, and Shelley Zalis, the
CEO of the Female Quotient. Let's talk about how we
can get more women on the path to profit. How
(00:45):
are you, ladies doing very well? Thank you so good.
So so Gina, let's start with you. How are your
organizations working to help, you know, reduce the gender gap
that we see? Well, we define the gender gap as
public presence because in this country, we define power through
(01:05):
public presence, and we want to see women in leadership
in business. We want to see women on stages, we
want to see women on zoom calls, we want to
see women on the best of lists, and the combination
of the female quotients and Shelly and Gender Avenger is
(01:25):
the perfect marriage to bring that mission forward because Gender
Avenger involves individuals who take action by using tools that
allow them to point out to organizations if they have
good gender balance or not. And I'll let Shelley talk
(01:46):
about female quotent and how it can affect the behavior,
the attitudes, and the actions of the business community. Well,
I've seen you on stage, Shelley, that's something you do yourself.
What Gina is talking about. I've seen you on stage,
I've seen you in video. Tell us about the female quotation. Well,
I mean, the female quotion is all about changing the
equation and closing the gaps. And you know, when you
(02:09):
think about bringing awareness to a problem, I mean it
really starts with that. You create the tally and you
create the awareness. And you know what we say is
you can't treasure what you can't measure. So first you
call it out and then you got to close it
and you've got to create accountability for it. And I
(02:30):
think that that's really what it's all about. You've got
to make the invisible visible, and once visible, you have
a choice do you want to do something or not?
And once you make a commitment to do something. You
can't just talk about it, but you've got to take action.
And that's all about. So one of the things that
we're seeing is these days on college campuses, it's it's
(02:51):
like a tsunami of women, right, But in the highest
echelons of power, we still don't see a lot of women.
Is there are time laps? Here? Is this cultural especially
in politics if we want to get into that, well,
it's above um, you know, history is filled with the
old boys club. So when you are choosing speakers, who
(03:15):
do you call you call your pals, and who are
your pals, and who are the people at the same
level as you And so people don't do the work
to find the women who have perhaps equal job titles
or certainly equal talent and backgrounds to be on that stage.
(03:36):
So I think there's a sort of a long history
that has only begun to change over the last you know,
a few years. Shelley, what do you think about that? Well,
I mean, I think that we're at a flipping point
and it just takes you know, the rules, the rules
(03:58):
need to change and whether there was a boys club
now you know, we started as a girl's lound. There
was a boys club, the opposite of boys club as
a girl's lound. You just gotta flip the script. And
once you flip it, that's the flipping point. That's when
you change the equation. When you put more women in
positions of power, then we have a responsibility to bring
(04:20):
more women to the table. When you bring more women
to the table, then more women start coming in. You
open the gates, you close the old door of inequity,
you open the new door of equality. And that's the
flipping point. And I think once you do that, that's
where change happens. Like why was it that way? Just
because it was? But why does it have to be
(04:42):
that way? No reason. So once you create this new opportunity,
you take it, and once you take it, that becomes
the new way. It doesn't have to be the way
it was. It just means no one ever started this
new thing, and Gina started this new thing, and that
new thing becomes the new norm. And it's not that complicated.
(05:07):
So I think that, you know, we always say a
woman alone has power, but collectively we have impact, and
we're impacting change and we're just creating the new way.
And then all of a sudden, you say Wow, look
at this. It's a room filled with women. It's the
stage with women. And once you start seeing women, if
you could see her, you could be her. And once
(05:28):
you see her and say, oh wow, that's kind of normal,
and that becomes the new normal. It's no longer an exception.
And the more women you see on stage, the more
women you see in politics, the more women you see
as doctors and lawyers on television in these roles with
speaking parts, you say, oh, of course, why not? And
(05:49):
that becomes the new why yes? And that's increasingly increasingly
Either is um awareness of the importance of sharing the stage.
So the of the population on the globe is represented
(06:11):
at least by on the stage um and you know
by not only you know, women were at large, but
women of color, women of different ages. And that that
is what Gender Adventure has been about, pointing out two
leaders where they are failing to include the voices, then
(06:34):
the perspectives and the ideas of our world population. So
so this is interesting, right, if you haven't noticed, I'm
a guy, right, So when you're when you're talking to dudes, right,
how do you how do you make them feel like
they should care about this issue? Because It's one of
those things like, oh, you know, like that's great, you know,
(06:55):
go you, But why does it? Why should it matter
to me you as an individual or you as a
leader within an organization. You as a leader within an organization,
it is a factor in your reputation. We once discovered
a conference by a major financial institution where the stage
(07:15):
had more Michaels than women. That was a headline in
the local paper. That is not helpful if you're trying
to recruit women to your wealth management program, right, so
you know, there's a very practical business reputation reason to
do this. In addition, I think, in particular, one hopes
(07:41):
young men understand this completely because they have shared the
classrooms with women, right, they have shared city councils with women.
They have a different perspective than certainly people who are
my age, but even people or Selly's age, right, have
a somewhat different perspective. Yes, Shelly, why should why? Why
(08:03):
why should we care? I know I've read studies that
you know, a board room with more women assume less risk,
because one of the things as men that we do
is kind of miscalculate risk in our brains. But above that,
why should we care. Well, let's just talk about financial performance.
Over of purchase decisions are made by women. I mean,
(08:25):
let's just talk about dollars and cents. I mean, so
bottom line, it's not only the right thing to do,
it's the right thing to do for business. So at
the end of the day, that is truth. And so
I think that I'm just going to go with the
first thing is about consciousness. I'm going to say it
(08:47):
might not even be something that people think about. Let's
make the unconscious conscious and so why should gender quality
is not a female issue. It's a social and economic issue,
and so it might not be what people passion too.
When you have a stage filled with men, people might not.
People say, oh, well, there's no women that are experts available.
(09:12):
I'm sorry. There are plenty of women that are topics.
But if you're looking for a CEO, we have a
lack of female CEOs. We know the numbers, right, But
if you look for topic experts, we have over eighty
five hundred women that are topic experts across the board.
(09:34):
So look for topic experts. We will be able to
fill any slot in any category on any topic in
any country that you were looking for. So no excuse.
If you're looking for an excuse, you can find one.
But if you were looking for a topic expert, we
have more qualified women then you could possibly need to
(09:57):
fill any slot at inn conference on any stage. So
let's talk about the labor market as it pertains to women.
There's one big difference between men and women on the
labor market is which, you know, I'm not going to
(10:18):
physically give birth to a child, you know, to produce
you know, years out of the labor market or sometimes
you know, women are presented with a choice to choose
one or the other. So this is a hot button issue,
of course, and I'd like for you both to speak
to it how a lot. And I've heard this in
the world, like, well, the gender gap is because women
(10:40):
leave the workplace because they're, you know, trying to have kids.
Tell me about that, Gino, you're already shaking your head here.
You know, I just can't believe, you know, women leave
the workplace because they're trying to have kids. Um, I
don't think that's right. I do think that we've been
(11:01):
very slow to respond than things like parental leave. You know,
it was when Congress passed a law that there had
to be unpaid parental leave, and it's all these years
later and we haven't moved to pay parental leave, and
so we haven't you know, sort of leveled that playing
field because most often it is women who take time
(11:26):
after birth to spend time with their newborns and their children.
You know, this is both a matter of public policy,
but it's also a matter of how we conduct business
in this country. What is it about a two or
three month absence that makes, you know, corporate leaders think
(11:48):
that that person can't come back and succeed do well
step back. So it's a cultural issue, I think, as
well as a policy issue. I'm sure Shelley has more
to say on it. Yeah, I mean, listen, I think
that if we want to attract and retain our best
talent and not are available talent, we need to really
(12:09):
think about caregiving. And our best leaders today proven our caregivers,
and we are losing our best talent to caregiving and
men and women, and we really need to to think
about that. And when we look at millennials today, we
need to start thinking about shared responsibility at home and
(12:31):
by default caregivers are still predominantly women. But if we
think about all over the world. And if you look
at our best leaders today are women, and the best
qualities of leaders today and the invisible skills which we
need to make more visible are a motive, caring, passionate.
(12:53):
Those are the best qualities of leaders today, the human
elements and the ones that we don't reward, the ones
that we don't you know, we don't make visible. And
when you look at the qualities of leadership, those are
the ones that we need to recognize, and those are
the ones that we're losing. Two. And so if we
(13:16):
think about parental leave and looking at rewarding those qualities
of leadership and thinking about how we can reinforce those
policies in the workplace for men and for women, and
when men do take parental leave, they are more um,
(13:37):
they're better leaders in general. And millennials today are all
taking maternity paternity parental leaf and sharing that responsibility because
they both want dual incomes. They want to figure out
how to share that responsibility at home. So it is
such an important um thing for beeds to get right
(14:01):
because we also see so many people opting out a
fortune five hun companies today and starting their own businesses.
And we're gonna see more and more, more and more
of that happening ifies. Don't get this right. You know.
Another part of this um is because we when we
all could get together, focused on conferences and in person conferences.
(14:26):
And you know, one of the key features of successful
conferences involving young women is that they provide childcare. Right.
It's if you're invited to a conference and there's some
kind of childcare available, then that makes it easier for
(14:47):
that family to participate. So, you know, these are um
kind of ways in which you can take into account
the different lives that women lead and men lead and
balance them in order to have women gained greater access
(15:12):
to the public dialogue. So let's talk about women having
it all? You know, about ten years ago, that was
always the conversation, right, because the birth rate keeps on
dropping in this country and obviously, you know, we're dependent
on women to reproduce, you know, and you know kind
of bring up the next generation. So can women have
it all? Is there is there a crux in the
(15:32):
road that they have to choose between child rearing and career.
What are your thoughts on that, ladies, Well, I think
women can have it all their way, So no such
thing is balanced. I think it's all about integration. One life,
many dimensions. You gotta you know, integrate, pick and choose
at different you know, points of life. I call it
(15:54):
life stage integration. And uh, you know, I think that
all companies need to allow everyone to have uh, you know,
life stage accommodation. They need to life stage accommodate if
they truly want to have um and happy and successful companies.
(16:15):
I think that employees are the most important element of
of a company. And I think that, you know, David,
you bring up and bring up that question, and it
makes you know, why are women expected to have it all?
What should have it all mean? For a man? Should
it mean having time with his children, having chime with
(16:36):
his spouse? That doesn't seem to be part of the equation.
It's always false to women to figure out, you know,
how she can figure out her career, not to the
leaders who want her talent, or the conference organizers or
even the zoom call you know, coordinators, to think about
(16:57):
the different lives we lead and how to make that
access possible. And I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I
get this pushback, And what's funny as time goes on,
I get this pushback more and more. I feel like
it's incumbent on me as an interviewer to ask these
questions because it is a very important point. And this
(17:19):
all leads back to culture that we've had to witness
cultural changes to really change the conversation. You bring up
an excellent point. No one ever asked me if I
could have it all right. It's just assumed that, like, oh, well,
you're a young man, just go out and get them tiger, right.
But somehow with women the conversation. But it seems like
every year that conversation seems to be morphing a little bit. Well,
(17:43):
there new generations living different lives. I think, you know,
the future is brighter because they live in a much
more diverse world. They live in a world that has
much greater gender inclusion. Um, you know, so my children
and grandchildren are growing up in the world where I
(18:05):
hope Shelly and I are contributing to. They are seeing
a world that they want to live in. When where
they share stages, one where there's a path to power,
when there where there's an acceptance. Look, you know you
talk about you know guys and how they feel, Well, yeah,
there's going to be a shared power. You know, there's
(18:29):
there's kind of accustomed to having, and then there are
women who belong there too, and so, uh, you know,
sometimes there's a feeling of why not me? Yeah, Shelley,
have things Have things gotten a lot better? Shelley? Tell
me what in your career, what have you seen as
time has gone on, the cultural changes? Well, you know,
(18:52):
I was just gonna say, Gine and I are a
generation apart, and Gine and I actually had this conversation
because in Gina's generation, she and her husband did have
the conversation about both of them, you know, working not working,
and it was interesting the conversation that they had. So
she can talk about that. My husband and I, Um,
(19:14):
he's a bud doctor. He's a colorrectal surgeon. Actually, you know,
my mother, my my father was a doctor and my mother,
um did not work when she was raising us. Um
she did afterwards when we all were out of the house.
I mean she was doing fundraising and things like that.
But when I was you're gonna have children, I actually
(19:35):
did not think I was gonna work. I was going
to stay at home. And my husband, whose mother was
a single parent, my husband looked at me and said, no,
I think you should work because my mother worked, and
I think you're gonna want to work. So I did work.
But it was a conversation my children, they you know,
they with their with their you know, partners, they both
(19:59):
decide if they're gonna work. They're gonna both you know,
parents are going to work because they want to be
dual income, and they are negotiating how that's going to work.
They're both taking when they have children, they're gonna take
parental leave, and they're gonna do you know, six months.
Their jobs each give them six months parental leave, so
they're gonna take six months each of them, and then
(20:20):
six months so that buys them a year so that
by the time their child is a year old, their
child will go to school. So they are already negotiating that.
That is a completely different generation than my generation. So
I am seeing how they are navigating their um their paths.
(20:41):
Completely different generation. Shocking to me. I met my my
friends when I was, you know, becoming a parent. None
of my friends in my circles really we're working. So
it's a very interesting transition right now. And then my year,
of course, my husband was told, oh, everyone was so
(21:03):
sad for him because he had this crazy wife who
was always off working. How could he stand it? No,
So at least we've moved Shelley a little bit. Yes,
I see the time shifting, and I see women today,
you know that are just entering into the workforce all
(21:28):
um planning to if you know, if they can to work,
and a lot of companies really thinking about um caregiving
and how they are gonna work around these policies. And
we as a female quotion working on advising companies on
you know, caregiving policies and how to most effectively work
(21:49):
towards helping men and women with this you know, gen
Z millennial generation most effectively ensure that women, you know,
and thrive in the workplace. So one of the things
(22:12):
I'm staring at right now is the Hollywood sign here
in Los Angeles. Have a perfect view of it from
where I'm standing right now. And that's a sector we've
seen a lot of change in recently, so specifically because
of the me too scandals that have rockt the industry.
You know, it seems like entertainment and politics are always
really really delayed, and it seems like those are the
two biggest forces in our society for change, but they
(22:35):
seem to be the most resistant to change. So we
just got our first female VP. We stood on I
have a lot of female studio heads here in Hollywood.
What can we do to spark change besides preach at
these people like, hey, you should be doing this, We
should be doing a lot of stuff. But it doesn't
seem like people actually want to change. So I'm just
(22:55):
going to do it from the narrow gender adventure perspective.
You know, as you know, if you can't measure it,
you can't treasure it. It's not only true for the
women who are watching the stage, but the men who
are in leadership who are watching the stage. If women
are given the opportunity to be on those public stages,
(23:19):
to lead on those zoom calls, they become candidates for
higher office for you know, higher status within the business.
You can't be invisible and move up and once you're visible,
So we often say as conference organizers, you don't put
(23:39):
the same three women CEOs on stage. Look at the cmos,
look at the CFOs. You know there are powerful, intriguing, provocative,
you know, entertaining women who don't have to have that
top title, and once they are seen often enough, some
people are gonna person could be the CEO. Her performance
(24:04):
within the organization, and now I've seen her performance in
the public and so I'd like to think that in
a small way, what we are doing by promoting and
pushing forward women onto the public stages and into the
public dialogue, it is helping recognition of what women can
be UM in our society. How about yeah, listen, I
(24:29):
think that UM measurement is very important, visibility very important,
but action is where a change happens. And so I
think that you need all of those things, but you
also need to be in positions of power. So just
putting women and men that are conscious leaders in positions
(24:53):
of power, you've got to also activate the change. So
just putting people in these positions is one thing, but
you also have to be in those positions and do
something and create the changes that are going to create
the actions that are going to be UM the things
that make the difference. So you know, when you look
(25:14):
at the gaming business, you look at UM the entertainment business,
if you still have the people that are the leadership
in those positions that are unwilling two change the culture,
change the rules, change the game, then nothing will happen.
(25:38):
It's such a good point, Chilly, because you know, one
of the excuses we often hear is will our president
is a woman. I don't care. You've got four men
on stage. I don't care if your president is a woman. Right,
So that's a lot of substitute there isn't gonna you know,
we were just trying to a huge group of people
(25:59):
and and I said, you know, we have choices, and
so it's not just about sitting at the table and
occupying a seat. What are you going to do Once
you have that, you have a responsibility and you need
to use it. It's the same when we talk about
having the choice of where you're gonna put your money.
(26:19):
If you're gonna do a media by you have a
choice of where you place your media. If you truly
want to put your money, um in women's sports, because
we know that only four percent of media spend goes
to women's sports. If you want to change the equation
for women's sports, where you're gonna put your dollars, you
(26:41):
have that choice. If you are the one spending your money,
do you want to put it in men's or in
women's You can be the you're if you're the media
spender and you're making that decision. Where do you want
to put your money? You have the choice, and so
we have the tools. We have the gen your Venture Talent.
(27:01):
We have the Speaker Equity Assessor, we have the Advancing
Equality Calculator, we have the f Q Equity Index. We
have the tools that will tell you where you are,
where you have gaps. Then you have a choice. Do
you want to fill them? Do you want to close them?
Do you want to buy media here? There? There? Do
(27:25):
you want to put women behind the screen? Do you
want to put women behind the camera. You have the choice.
You have the accountability, you have the responsibility. Do you
want to just fill the seat and be an empty
suit or do you want to make the right choice
up to you. Don't point your finger at someone else.
(27:46):
You have the power. Do you want to use it
or not? So I like, okay, you can ask you
canna ask me a question, Gina, you're gonna turn the
tables here. I was just going to to uh ask
for a moment for a p s A for what
Shelley has referred to as the but you're listening audience
(28:12):
or viewing audience can know what the tally is, and
the tally is an app called the Gender Avenger Tally
where you could tally you know, the three of us
or anything on stage. You simply put in the number
of men, the number of women, the number of women
of color, the number of non binary individuals, and the
(28:34):
app will create a pie chart showing the ratios, and
you can put in the hashtag of the event, the
snarky little headlines, uh, if there aren't enough women, there
aren't enough women of color, and then you can send
that out through Twitter, through Facebook, through Instagram, or just
(28:56):
in case you work for the organization, you can actually
send it anonymously and the Gender Avenger will make sure
the hashtag is real and we'll post it on Twitter
and Facebook. So it's a way to get attention. It's
a very easy thing to do. You can do you're
on a zoom call um and get the attention of
the people who are in the kind of leadership positions
(29:18):
that Chili is talking about, who can take action and
make the change or change their behavior going forward. Well,
that's really fascinating. So you're trying to leverage social media
to bring more awareness and initiate change. So sometimes you
know what if sometimes the person and so obviously archetypes matter,
(29:41):
seeing women on stage, seeing women in positions of power,
seeing women on film playing roles that are not you know,
tropes or stereotypes from the past. But sometimes a guy
could be a better advocate for women than another woman.
Can we talk about that? Because we see that a lot, right,
We always see and the and I see this being
a member of a minority community. A lot of times
(30:02):
when we see that person up in power, they we
we interpret that they got up to that point by
kind of like rejecting their own group, like, well, it's
just for me, but not for anyone else, So tell
me about that. Sorry you feel that way. We see
that a lot. It's pretty it's actually, unfortunately a lot
more common than we care to admit. Uh, well, I
(30:27):
you know, um, I think we have to increase the
presence of women and by doing that, you'll automatically solve
that problem. I mean, you know, and why should men
be advocates? Because if you want to be part of
a greater conversation, if you want to demonstrate the value
(30:49):
you put on women's voices, this is the opportunity. Um.
You know, we have often engaged men in our work.
And one of my favorite stories is a major retired
at the time, founder of a fortune five business, was
invited to speak someone was starting a new organization and
(31:12):
this man called up the organizer and said, well, who's
going to be on stage with me? Because if there
aren't women on stage, I'm not coming because I'm committed
to that. Well maybe, you know, a huge difference, and
there are men who will do that, who when they're
invited to speak, they will ask who else is going
(31:33):
to be speaking? And if there's not balance, gender balance
and racial balance, you know, then they say, I'm you know,
find somebody else. And you'd be surprised how the organizers
who wanted that first person don't hustle around and find
other people. And you know what, we we so believe
in all of us supporting each other. And you know,
(31:57):
one of the things that we called we call we
for we that we're all in this together. And it
is really especially in the workplace, that it's not about
you know, men bringing women up, for women just bringing
women up. It really is about the power of the
(32:17):
collective that all of us are working together. That's what
equality is all about. That um, we all support one another,
because that's what this should be. It's not about a
uh an inequality or that we are just pushing women
to the top because we we should be seen because
(32:41):
we've been Um, we're weak, and we want to be
seen because we're all necessary in in the equation. We
all bring amazing value to the table, and we all
should be supporting one another. So we call it we
for weight. Great explanation, So I want to ask one
(33:04):
more question before I leave you, ladies, what is it
going to take for us to have a female president
in this country? As we know, many countries across the world,
especially industrialized countries and even you know, developing countries have
had female presidents. But for some reason over here in
North America, United States, Canada and Mexico have never had
(33:25):
a female president. What is it going to take to
get there? I don't know. I just hope it happens,
you know, before I die. You want to see you, Gina,
I want to see So the prospects aren't that hot,
but nevertheless, you know, um, it's hard to predict what
(33:45):
it will take, you know, um, And whatever you thought
of Hillary Clinton, if you look back at that campaign,
the kind of sexist coverage and the kind of attitudes
to her that were so different in the reporting um
and the measuring of her campaign than for men um. So,
you know, as there are more women who are governors,
(34:07):
as there are more women who are senators, you know,
perhaps voters get used to women's leadership in the political world.
That will pave the way. I was just gonna say,
you know, I um. I was talking to Rosie Rio's
the former treasure the United States, and Rosie was was
(34:29):
telling me that. You know, I was walking through the
Office of Treasury in the White House one day and
I saw this wall of all of the treasurers of
the United States since like I don't remember what year
it started, almost all female, right, no, not almost all.
(34:53):
And I said, oh my god, I had no idea
that all of the treasurers United States since nineteen It
is something. I was just gonna look up what year
it started with Roosevelts. I don't know something. I said,
how is this possible? She goes, well, it all started
with one of the presidents, like way back when brought
on the first female treasure of the United States, and
(35:16):
then from that day on all of them were female.
So that's what it will take once we have the
first female president United States, which hopefully will be in
the next election, I predict the rest we'll all be
female by starting, and that's what it's going to take.
(35:41):
It will just become the new norm. So we just
got a break the code and once we do the
flipping point, the rest will follow. Well, there's a lot
of a track record around the world and specifically the
King of Angela merkel Over in Germany and how successful
(36:03):
her tenure was and how recognized her leadership style was,
so it doesn't seem like all hope is out, and
especially since we have a current VP who is a female,
Kamala Harris. For the Democrats out there, hopefully cross your fingers,
and for the Republicans out there, I think we're seeing
more and more female leadership. And I think, like you
ladies have mentioned this whole interview, until you see it,
(36:25):
you can't really imagine it. And that's how culture works.
So just you know, the f the FQS answer is
why not, Like it's just there is no reason why not.
So once you start, you just keep going snowball. Well,
I for one, would be more than happy to vote
for a female based on her of course postures and
(36:47):
you know her plan for America. But in the meantime,
I would love to have a female boss. So here's
to hoping for change in the near future. On that note,
Gina and Shelly, thank you for joining me today to
talk about this very important issue. Thank you for having us.
Thank you so much, and Gina, here's to you so exciting.
(37:12):
So thanks to all of you for joining me for
this episode. To follow the profit, I'd like to thank Gina,
Glance and Shelley Zals for joining me today. You know,
women in the workplace is a really important issue and
I'm happy we had some time to hash this out.
We appreciate their inside on women and the barriers they
still face every single day. It's never been an easy
climb and there's a lot of work to be done.
(37:32):
And I'd like to thank our producers. Of course, they're
very talented and they work hard to make this happen,
Robin Scott, as well as our executive producers New Gingrich
and Debbie Myers. I'm your host, David Grosse. If you're
enjoying the show, please give us five stars and give
us a review so that others can learn what the
show is all about follow the profit as a production
of Gingridge through six and I heart Radio. For more
podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
(37:55):
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Part of
the Gingwich three sixty network
I'm David Grosso, and you're listening to follow the profit
women in the Workplace. At every business and political conference
you attend, they'll probably be a panel about more women
in government, business, entertainment and more. But still a lot
of places aren't really putting in the work to bridge
(00:22):
the gap between men and women. Our guests today are
two powerful women, one of which I've met in real life,
not just on the Internet, who are working together to
put women in these leadership roles. Joining me our Gina Glance,
She's the founder of Gender Avenger, and Shelley Zalis, the
CEO of the Female Quotient. Let's talk about how we
can get more women on the path to profit. How
(00:45):
are you, ladies doing very well? Thank you so good.
So so Gina, let's start with you. How are your
organizations working to help, you know, reduce the gender gap
that we see? Well, we define the gender gap as
public presence because in this country, we define power through
(01:05):
public presence, and we want to see women in leadership
in business. We want to see women on stages, we
want to see women on zoom calls, we want to
see women on the best of lists, and the combination
of the female quotients and Shelly and Gender Avenger is
(01:25):
the perfect marriage to bring that mission forward because Gender
Avenger involves individuals who take action by using tools that
allow them to point out to organizations if they have
good gender balance or not. And I'll let Shelley talk
(01:46):
about female quotent and how it can affect the behavior,
the attitudes, and the actions of the business community. Well,
I've seen you on stage, Shelley, that's something you do yourself.
What Gina is talking about. I've seen you on stage,
I've seen you in video. Tell us about the female quotation. Well,
I mean, the female quotion is all about changing the
equation and closing the gaps. And you know, when you
(02:09):
think about bringing awareness to a problem, I mean it
really starts with that. You create the tally and you
create the awareness. And you know what we say is
you can't treasure what you can't measure. So first you
call it out and then you got to close it
and you've got to create accountability for it. And I
(02:30):
think that that's really what it's all about. You've got
to make the invisible visible, and once visible, you have
a choice do you want to do something or not?
And once you make a commitment to do something. You
can't just talk about it, but you've got to take action.
And that's all about. So one of the things that
we're seeing is these days on college campuses, it's it's
(02:51):
like a tsunami of women, right, But in the highest
echelons of power, we still don't see a lot of women.
Is there are time laps? Here? Is this cultural especially
in politics if we want to get into that, well,
it's above um, you know, history is filled with the
old boys club. So when you are choosing speakers, who
(03:15):
do you call you call your pals, and who are
your pals, and who are the people at the same
level as you And so people don't do the work
to find the women who have perhaps equal job titles
or certainly equal talent and backgrounds to be on that stage.
(03:36):
So I think there's a sort of a long history
that has only begun to change over the last you know,
a few years. Shelley, what do you think about that? Well,
I mean, I think that we're at a flipping point
and it just takes you know, the rules, the rules
(03:58):
need to change and whether there was a boys club
now you know, we started as a girl's lound. There
was a boys club, the opposite of boys club as
a girl's lound. You just gotta flip the script. And
once you flip it, that's the flipping point. That's when
you change the equation. When you put more women in
positions of power, then we have a responsibility to bring
(04:20):
more women to the table. When you bring more women
to the table, then more women start coming in. You
open the gates, you close the old door of inequity,
you open the new door of equality. And that's the
flipping point. And I think once you do that, that's
where change happens. Like why was it that way? Just
because it was? But why does it have to be
(04:42):
that way? No reason. So once you create this new opportunity,
you take it, and once you take it, that becomes
the new way. It doesn't have to be the way
it was. It just means no one ever started this
new thing, and Gina started this new thing, and that
new thing becomes the new norm. And it's not that complicated.
(05:07):
So I think that, you know, we always say a
woman alone has power, but collectively we have impact, and
we're impacting change and we're just creating the new way.
And then all of a sudden, you say Wow, look
at this. It's a room filled with women. It's the
stage with women. And once you start seeing women, if
you could see her, you could be her. And once
(05:28):
you see her and say, oh wow, that's kind of normal,
and that becomes the new normal. It's no longer an exception.
And the more women you see on stage, the more
women you see in politics, the more women you see
as doctors and lawyers on television in these roles with
speaking parts, you say, oh, of course, why not? And
(05:49):
that becomes the new why yes? And that's increasingly increasingly
Either is um awareness of the importance of sharing the stage.
So the of the population on the globe is represented
(06:11):
at least by on the stage um and you know
by not only you know, women were at large, but
women of color, women of different ages. And that that
is what Gender Adventure has been about, pointing out two
leaders where they are failing to include the voices, then
(06:34):
the perspectives and the ideas of our world population. So
so this is interesting, right, if you haven't noticed, I'm
a guy, right, So when you're when you're talking to dudes, right,
how do you how do you make them feel like
they should care about this issue? Because It's one of
those things like, oh, you know, like that's great, you know,
(06:55):
go you, But why does it? Why should it matter
to me you as an individual or you as a
leader within an organization. You as a leader within an organization,
it is a factor in your reputation. We once discovered
a conference by a major financial institution where the stage
(07:15):
had more Michaels than women. That was a headline in
the local paper. That is not helpful if you're trying
to recruit women to your wealth management program, right, so
you know, there's a very practical business reputation reason to
do this. In addition, I think, in particular, one hopes
(07:41):
young men understand this completely because they have shared the
classrooms with women, right, they have shared city councils with women.
They have a different perspective than certainly people who are
my age, but even people or Selly's age, right, have
a somewhat different perspective. Yes, Shelly, why should why? Why
(08:03):
why should we care? I know I've read studies that
you know, a board room with more women assume less risk,
because one of the things as men that we do
is kind of miscalculate risk in our brains. But above that,
why should we care. Well, let's just talk about financial performance.
Over of purchase decisions are made by women. I mean,
(08:25):
let's just talk about dollars and cents. I mean, so
bottom line, it's not only the right thing to do,
it's the right thing to do for business. So at
the end of the day, that is truth. And so
I think that I'm just going to go with the
first thing is about consciousness. I'm going to say it
(08:47):
might not even be something that people think about. Let's
make the unconscious conscious and so why should gender quality
is not a female issue. It's a social and economic issue,
and so it might not be what people passion too.
When you have a stage filled with men, people might not.
People say, oh, well, there's no women that are experts available.
(09:12):
I'm sorry. There are plenty of women that are topics.
But if you're looking for a CEO, we have a
lack of female CEOs. We know the numbers, right, But
if you look for topic experts, we have over eighty
five hundred women that are topic experts across the board.
(09:34):
So look for topic experts. We will be able to
fill any slot in any category on any topic in
any country that you were looking for. So no excuse.
If you're looking for an excuse, you can find one.
But if you were looking for a topic expert, we
have more qualified women then you could possibly need to
(09:57):
fill any slot at inn conference on any stage. So
let's talk about the labor market as it pertains to women.
There's one big difference between men and women on the
labor market is which, you know, I'm not going to
(10:18):
physically give birth to a child, you know, to produce
you know, years out of the labor market or sometimes
you know, women are presented with a choice to choose
one or the other. So this is a hot button issue,
of course, and I'd like for you both to speak
to it how a lot. And I've heard this in
the world, like, well, the gender gap is because women
(10:40):
leave the workplace because they're, you know, trying to have kids.
Tell me about that, Gino, you're already shaking your head here.
You know, I just can't believe, you know, women leave
the workplace because they're trying to have kids. Um, I
don't think that's right. I do think that we've been
(11:01):
very slow to respond than things like parental leave. You know,
it was when Congress passed a law that there had
to be unpaid parental leave, and it's all these years
later and we haven't moved to pay parental leave, and
so we haven't you know, sort of leveled that playing
field because most often it is women who take time
(11:26):
after birth to spend time with their newborns and their children.
You know, this is both a matter of public policy,
but it's also a matter of how we conduct business
in this country. What is it about a two or
three month absence that makes, you know, corporate leaders think
(11:48):
that that person can't come back and succeed do well
step back. So it's a cultural issue, I think, as
well as a policy issue. I'm sure Shelley has more
to say on it. Yeah, I mean, listen, I think
that if we want to attract and retain our best
talent and not are available talent, we need to really
(12:09):
think about caregiving. And our best leaders today proven our caregivers,
and we are losing our best talent to caregiving and
men and women, and we really need to to think
about that. And when we look at millennials today, we
need to start thinking about shared responsibility at home and
(12:31):
by default caregivers are still predominantly women. But if we
think about all over the world. And if you look
at our best leaders today are women, and the best
qualities of leaders today and the invisible skills which we
need to make more visible are a motive, caring, passionate.
(12:53):
Those are the best qualities of leaders today, the human
elements and the ones that we don't reward, the ones
that we don't you know, we don't make visible. And
when you look at the qualities of leadership, those are
the ones that we need to recognize, and those are
the ones that we're losing. Two. And so if we
(13:16):
think about parental leave and looking at rewarding those qualities
of leadership and thinking about how we can reinforce those
policies in the workplace for men and for women, and
when men do take parental leave, they are more um,
(13:37):
they're better leaders in general. And millennials today are all
taking maternity paternity parental leaf and sharing that responsibility because
they both want dual incomes. They want to figure out
how to share that responsibility at home. So it is
such an important um thing for beeds to get right
(14:01):
because we also see so many people opting out a
fortune five hun companies today and starting their own businesses.
And we're gonna see more and more, more and more
of that happening ifies. Don't get this right. You know.
Another part of this um is because we when we
all could get together, focused on conferences and in person conferences.
(14:26):
And you know, one of the key features of successful
conferences involving young women is that they provide childcare. Right.
It's if you're invited to a conference and there's some
kind of childcare available, then that makes it easier for
(14:47):
that family to participate. So, you know, these are um
kind of ways in which you can take into account
the different lives that women lead and men lead and
balance them in order to have women gained greater access
(15:12):
to the public dialogue. So let's talk about women having
it all? You know, about ten years ago, that was
always the conversation, right, because the birth rate keeps on
dropping in this country and obviously, you know, we're dependent
on women to reproduce, you know, and you know kind
of bring up the next generation. So can women have
it all? Is there is there a crux in the
(15:32):
road that they have to choose between child rearing and career.
What are your thoughts on that, ladies, Well, I think
women can have it all their way, So no such
thing is balanced. I think it's all about integration. One life,
many dimensions. You gotta you know, integrate, pick and choose
at different you know, points of life. I call it
(15:54):
life stage integration. And uh, you know, I think that
all companies need to allow everyone to have uh, you know,
life stage accommodation. They need to life stage accommodate if
they truly want to have um and happy and successful companies.
(16:15):
I think that employees are the most important element of
of a company. And I think that, you know, David,
you bring up and bring up that question, and it
makes you know, why are women expected to have it all?
What should have it all mean? For a man? Should
it mean having time with his children, having chime with
(16:36):
his spouse? That doesn't seem to be part of the equation.
It's always false to women to figure out, you know,
how she can figure out her career, not to the
leaders who want her talent, or the conference organizers or
even the zoom call you know, coordinators, to think about
(16:57):
the different lives we lead and how to make that
access possible. And I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I
get this pushback, And what's funny as time goes on,
I get this pushback more and more. I feel like
it's incumbent on me as an interviewer to ask these
questions because it is a very important point. And this
(17:19):
all leads back to culture that we've had to witness
cultural changes to really change the conversation. You bring up
an excellent point. No one ever asked me if I
could have it all right. It's just assumed that, like, oh, well,
you're a young man, just go out and get them tiger, right.
But somehow with women the conversation. But it seems like
every year that conversation seems to be morphing a little bit. Well,
(17:43):
there new generations living different lives. I think, you know,
the future is brighter because they live in a much
more diverse world. They live in a world that has
much greater gender inclusion. Um, you know, so my children
and grandchildren are growing up in the world where I
(18:05):
hope Shelly and I are contributing to. They are seeing
a world that they want to live in. When where
they share stages, one where there's a path to power,
when there where there's an acceptance. Look, you know you
talk about you know guys and how they feel, Well, yeah,
there's going to be a shared power. You know, there's
(18:29):
there's kind of accustomed to having, and then there are
women who belong there too, and so, uh, you know,
sometimes there's a feeling of why not me? Yeah, Shelley,
have things Have things gotten a lot better? Shelley? Tell
me what in your career, what have you seen as
time has gone on, the cultural changes? Well, you know,
(18:52):
I was just gonna say, Gine and I are a
generation apart, and Gine and I actually had this conversation
because in Gina's generation, she and her husband did have
the conversation about both of them, you know, working not working,
and it was interesting the conversation that they had. So
she can talk about that. My husband and I, Um,
(19:14):
he's a bud doctor. He's a colorrectal surgeon. Actually, you know,
my mother, my my father was a doctor and my mother,
um did not work when she was raising us. Um
she did afterwards when we all were out of the house.
I mean she was doing fundraising and things like that.
But when I was you're gonna have children, I actually
(19:35):
did not think I was gonna work. I was going
to stay at home. And my husband, whose mother was
a single parent, my husband looked at me and said, no,
I think you should work because my mother worked, and
I think you're gonna want to work. So I did work.
But it was a conversation my children, they you know,
they with their with their you know, partners, they both
(19:59):
decide if they're gonna work. They're gonna both you know,
parents are going to work because they want to be
dual income, and they are negotiating how that's going to work.
They're both taking when they have children, they're gonna take
parental leave, and they're gonna do you know, six months.
Their jobs each give them six months parental leave, so
they're gonna take six months each of them, and then
(20:20):
six months so that buys them a year so that
by the time their child is a year old, their
child will go to school. So they are already negotiating that.
That is a completely different generation than my generation. So
I am seeing how they are navigating their um their paths.
(20:41):
Completely different generation. Shocking to me. I met my my
friends when I was, you know, becoming a parent. None
of my friends in my circles really we're working. So
it's a very interesting transition right now. And then my year,
of course, my husband was told, oh, everyone was so
(21:03):
sad for him because he had this crazy wife who
was always off working. How could he stand it? No,
So at least we've moved Shelley a little bit. Yes,
I see the time shifting, and I see women today,
you know that are just entering into the workforce all
(21:28):
um planning to if you know, if they can to work,
and a lot of companies really thinking about um caregiving
and how they are gonna work around these policies. And
we as a female quotion working on advising companies on
you know, caregiving policies and how to most effectively work
(21:49):
towards helping men and women with this you know, gen
Z millennial generation most effectively ensure that women, you know,
and thrive in the workplace. So one of the things
(22:12):
I'm staring at right now is the Hollywood sign here
in Los Angeles. Have a perfect view of it from
where I'm standing right now. And that's a sector we've
seen a lot of change in recently, so specifically because
of the me too scandals that have rockt the industry.
You know, it seems like entertainment and politics are always
really really delayed, and it seems like those are the
two biggest forces in our society for change, but they
(22:35):
seem to be the most resistant to change. So we
just got our first female VP. We stood on I
have a lot of female studio heads here in Hollywood.
What can we do to spark change besides preach at
these people like, hey, you should be doing this, We
should be doing a lot of stuff. But it doesn't
seem like people actually want to change. So I'm just
(22:55):
going to do it from the narrow gender adventure perspective.
You know, as you know, if you can't measure it,
you can't treasure it. It's not only true for the
women who are watching the stage, but the men who
are in leadership who are watching the stage. If women
are given the opportunity to be on those public stages,
(23:19):
to lead on those zoom calls, they become candidates for
higher office for you know, higher status within the business.
You can't be invisible and move up and once you're visible,
So we often say as conference organizers, you don't put
(23:39):
the same three women CEOs on stage. Look at the cmos,
look at the CFOs. You know there are powerful, intriguing, provocative,
you know, entertaining women who don't have to have that
top title, and once they are seen often enough, some
people are gonna person could be the CEO. Her performance
(24:04):
within the organization, and now I've seen her performance in
the public and so I'd like to think that in
a small way, what we are doing by promoting and
pushing forward women onto the public stages and into the
public dialogue, it is helping recognition of what women can
be UM in our society. How about yeah, listen, I
(24:29):
think that UM measurement is very important, visibility very important,
but action is where a change happens. And so I
think that you need all of those things, but you
also need to be in positions of power. So just
putting women and men that are conscious leaders in positions
(24:53):
of power, you've got to also activate the change. So
just putting people in these positions is one thing, but
you also have to be in those positions and do
something and create the changes that are going to create
the actions that are going to be UM the things
that make the difference. So you know, when you look
(25:14):
at the gaming business, you look at UM the entertainment business,
if you still have the people that are the leadership
in those positions that are unwilling two change the culture,
change the rules, change the game, then nothing will happen.
(25:38):
It's such a good point, Chilly, because you know, one
of the excuses we often hear is will our president
is a woman. I don't care. You've got four men
on stage. I don't care if your president is a woman. Right,
So that's a lot of substitute there isn't gonna you know,
we were just trying to a huge group of people
(25:59):
and and I said, you know, we have choices, and
so it's not just about sitting at the table and
occupying a seat. What are you going to do Once
you have that, you have a responsibility and you need
to use it. It's the same when we talk about
having the choice of where you're gonna put your money.
(26:19):
If you're gonna do a media by you have a
choice of where you place your media. If you truly
want to put your money, um in women's sports, because
we know that only four percent of media spend goes
to women's sports. If you want to change the equation
for women's sports, where you're gonna put your dollars, you
(26:41):
have that choice. If you are the one spending your money,
do you want to put it in men's or in
women's You can be the you're if you're the media
spender and you're making that decision. Where do you want
to put your money? You have the choice, and so
we have the tools. We have the gen your Venture Talent.
(27:01):
We have the Speaker Equity Assessor, we have the Advancing
Equality Calculator, we have the f Q Equity Index. We
have the tools that will tell you where you are,
where you have gaps. Then you have a choice. Do
you want to fill them? Do you want to close them?
Do you want to buy media here? There? There? Do
(27:25):
you want to put women behind the screen? Do you
want to put women behind the camera. You have the choice.
You have the accountability, you have the responsibility. Do you
want to just fill the seat and be an empty
suit or do you want to make the right choice
up to you. Don't point your finger at someone else.
(27:46):
You have the power. Do you want to use it
or not? So I like, okay, you can ask you
canna ask me a question, Gina, you're gonna turn the
tables here. I was just going to to uh ask
for a moment for a p s A for what
Shelley has referred to as the but you're listening audience
(28:12):
or viewing audience can know what the tally is, and
the tally is an app called the Gender Avenger Tally
where you could tally you know, the three of us
or anything on stage. You simply put in the number
of men, the number of women, the number of women
of color, the number of non binary individuals, and the
(28:34):
app will create a pie chart showing the ratios, and
you can put in the hashtag of the event, the
snarky little headlines, uh, if there aren't enough women, there
aren't enough women of color, and then you can send
that out through Twitter, through Facebook, through Instagram, or just
(28:56):
in case you work for the organization, you can actually
send it anonymously and the Gender Avenger will make sure
the hashtag is real and we'll post it on Twitter
and Facebook. So it's a way to get attention. It's
a very easy thing to do. You can do you're
on a zoom call um and get the attention of
the people who are in the kind of leadership positions
(29:18):
that Chili is talking about, who can take action and
make the change or change their behavior going forward. Well,
that's really fascinating. So you're trying to leverage social media
to bring more awareness and initiate change. So sometimes you
know what if sometimes the person and so obviously archetypes matter,
(29:41):
seeing women on stage, seeing women in positions of power,
seeing women on film playing roles that are not you know,
tropes or stereotypes from the past. But sometimes a guy
could be a better advocate for women than another woman.
Can we talk about that? Because we see that a lot, right,
We always see and the and I see this being
a member of a minority community. A lot of times
(30:02):
when we see that person up in power, they we
we interpret that they got up to that point by
kind of like rejecting their own group, like, well, it's
just for me, but not for anyone else, So tell
me about that. Sorry you feel that way. We see
that a lot. It's pretty it's actually, unfortunately a lot
more common than we care to admit. Uh, well, I
(30:27):
you know, um, I think we have to increase the
presence of women and by doing that, you'll automatically solve
that problem. I mean, you know, and why should men
be advocates? Because if you want to be part of
a greater conversation, if you want to demonstrate the value
(30:49):
you put on women's voices, this is the opportunity. Um.
You know, we have often engaged men in our work.
And one of my favorite stories is a major retired
at the time, founder of a fortune five business, was
invited to speak someone was starting a new organization and
(31:12):
this man called up the organizer and said, well, who's
going to be on stage with me? Because if there
aren't women on stage, I'm not coming because I'm committed
to that. Well maybe, you know, a huge difference, and
there are men who will do that, who when they're
invited to speak, they will ask who else is going
(31:33):
to be speaking? And if there's not balance, gender balance
and racial balance, you know, then they say, I'm you know,
find somebody else. And you'd be surprised how the organizers
who wanted that first person don't hustle around and find
other people. And you know what, we we so believe
in all of us supporting each other. And you know,
(31:57):
one of the things that we called we call we
for we that we're all in this together. And it
is really especially in the workplace, that it's not about
you know, men bringing women up, for women just bringing
women up. It really is about the power of the
(32:17):
collective that all of us are working together. That's what
equality is all about. That um, we all support one another,
because that's what this should be. It's not about a
uh an inequality or that we are just pushing women
to the top because we we should be seen because
(32:41):
we've been Um, we're weak, and we want to be
seen because we're all necessary in in the equation. We
all bring amazing value to the table, and we all
should be supporting one another. So we call it we
for weight. Great explanation, So I want to ask one
(33:04):
more question before I leave you, ladies, what is it
going to take for us to have a female president
in this country? As we know, many countries across the world,
especially industrialized countries and even you know, developing countries have
had female presidents. But for some reason over here in
North America, United States, Canada and Mexico have never had
(33:25):
a female president. What is it going to take to
get there? I don't know. I just hope it happens,
you know, before I die. You want to see you, Gina,
I want to see So the prospects aren't that hot,
but nevertheless, you know, um, it's hard to predict what
(33:45):
it will take, you know, um, And whatever you thought
of Hillary Clinton, if you look back at that campaign,
the kind of sexist coverage and the kind of attitudes
to her that were so different in the reporting um
and the measuring of her campaign than for men um. So,
you know, as there are more women who are governors,
(34:07):
as there are more women who are senators, you know,
perhaps voters get used to women's leadership in the political world.
That will pave the way. I was just gonna say,
you know, I um. I was talking to Rosie Rio's
the former treasure the United States, and Rosie was was
(34:29):
telling me that. You know, I was walking through the
Office of Treasury in the White House one day and
I saw this wall of all of the treasurers of
the United States since like I don't remember what year
it started, almost all female, right, no, not almost all.
(34:53):
And I said, oh my god, I had no idea
that all of the treasurers United States since nineteen It
is something. I was just gonna look up what year
it started with Roosevelts. I don't know something. I said,
how is this possible? She goes, well, it all started
with one of the presidents, like way back when brought
on the first female treasure of the United States, and
(35:16):
then from that day on all of them were female.
So that's what it will take once we have the
first female president United States, which hopefully will be in
the next election, I predict the rest we'll all be
female by starting, and that's what it's going to take.
(35:41):
It will just become the new norm. So we just
got a break the code and once we do the
flipping point, the rest will follow. Well, there's a lot
of a track record around the world and specifically the
King of Angela merkel Over in Germany and how successful
(36:03):
her tenure was and how recognized her leadership style was,
so it doesn't seem like all hope is out, and
especially since we have a current VP who is a female,
Kamala Harris. For the Democrats out there, hopefully cross your fingers,
and for the Republicans out there, I think we're seeing
more and more female leadership. And I think, like you
ladies have mentioned this whole interview, until you see it,
(36:25):
you can't really imagine it. And that's how culture works.
So just you know, the f the FQS answer is
why not, Like it's just there is no reason why not.
So once you start, you just keep going snowball. Well,
I for one, would be more than happy to vote
for a female based on her of course postures and
(36:47):
you know her plan for America. But in the meantime,
I would love to have a female boss. So here's
to hoping for change in the near future. On that note,
Gina and Shelly, thank you for joining me today to
talk about this very important issue. Thank you for having us.
Thank you so much, and Gina, here's to you so exciting.
(37:12):
So thanks to all of you for joining me for
this episode. To follow the profit, I'd like to thank Gina,
Glance and Shelley Zals for joining me today. You know,
women in the workplace is a really important issue and
I'm happy we had some time to hash this out.
We appreciate their inside on women and the barriers they
still face every single day. It's never been an easy
climb and there's a lot of work to be done.
(37:32):
And I'd like to thank our producers. Of course, they're
very talented and they work hard to make this happen,
Robin Scott, as well as our executive producers New Gingrich
and Debbie Myers. I'm your host, David Grosse. If you're
enjoying the show, please give us five stars and give
us a review so that others can learn what the
show is all about follow the profit as a production
of Gingridge through six and I heart Radio. For more
podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
(37:55):
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Part of
the Gingwich three sixty network
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com