March 24, 2020 • 29 mins
Restaurateurs Jon Shook and Vinny Dotolo (known as Jon and Vinny) firmly believe that blue cheese is better than ranch dressing. Podcaster and writer Courtney Kocak could not disagree more. The debate is fierce but no matter what Judge Richard Blais decides there are going to be a whole lot of listeners who disagree.
NOTE- Jon and Vinny would like their Los Angeles listeners to know that Jon and Vinny's Fairfax and Brentwood as well as Kismet Rotisserie are open and doing takeout and delivery during this quarantine. Try some delicious pizza with your social distancing!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Creamy, Creamy food Court, food Court, food Court with Shirt Blase,
Argue with the food Court. Court with Shurt Blase. Food
(00:32):
Here we go. Hey everyone, welcome to food Court. A
production of I Heart Radio. Food Court is now in session.
I love doing that. I'm the Honorable Richard Blaze, am
I don't know, maybe not presiding. This is your podcast
where I settle all of your food debates once and
for all. You are welcome world. This had to be done.
This is serious business, and it's incredibly serious today. I'm
(00:55):
a chef and I've competed, judge or hosted nearly every
food show. So I've decided that makes me qualified to
preside over this court specifically today. Joining us in court,
we have a little something different this week. We have
two guys who have been a team since um, pretty
much forever. Right, I've none killing it, killing the game
(01:19):
since ninety nine. I've known you guys for what I'm
gonna say, ten years. It's got to be at least
ten years. And I'm in high school. Smack talk is happening. Uh,
and you guys are kind of literally never apart, right,
I mean, I'm sure, I mean, I mean we're but
you know, we always even if one of us there,
(01:39):
we always build it as both of us there. It
is okay to James Beard Award winners, a huge part
of the Los Angeles restaurant renaissance. It's John Shook and
Vinnie Titlo. Thanks for having us. I want to call
you judge by the way, I like it. Yes, I
was wearing the robe. Jud Yes, Okay, it's gonna It's
gonna happen. Okay. Uh and of but listen because this
(02:01):
is a twist. John and Vinny you're arguing though even
there's two of you, you're arguing the same side today,
so you will be participating as a team. This has
never happened in the food court. So it's time to
introduce the brave soul who is willing to take on
these two Los Angeles Empire restaurateurs. It's Los Angeles based writer, podcaster,
(02:22):
all around renaissance woman. It's Courtney Kossak. Hello, I'm down
my writing partner. I write comedy with a a lady
named Sophia Alexandra, and I am also with her all
the time, so I feel like I should have had
her here to go against you guys. Yeah, Well, while
we're on. Then while we're on the topic, Jasmine Blaze,
you know, writes a lot of my stuff as well,
(02:42):
and she's not here. So I feel you Courtney, like,
I get it. You guys like a little lost right now.
I should have Richard on my team. Well, the politics
will hold on. That's the judge. Camp be on your team.
Water in the court, Water in the court. Yes, I
have to remain unbiased. A matter of fact, let's get
that right out of the way right now. I might
have some opinions on the topics that we're getting into today,
but during the proceeding I will remain unbiased and my
(03:06):
verdict will depend only on your debate. So let's get
into what the topic is today. You'll be facing off
in an age old argument of blue cheese versus ranch dressing.
I can't even believe you guys are willing to debate firm.
(03:26):
That's insane. It is underdog where I mean we are.
Don't underestimate blue cheese. That it's a very chefy take.
I mean, does it get more American than ranch dressing?
Does it get maybe more on American than blue cheese?
I don't know, but this debate is very American. That's
what it's all about. It's red, white, and blue, see
(03:47):
what it's Do you have any opinions on that too?
I don't like, like, do you spell blue cheese with
the EU or do you go you okay? Alright, alright,
so that's good. It's pretentious. The other way it's pretentious.
We try to drop all the pretense in the in
the blue Cheese has gotten a lot of just bad
raps about it, you know, but I think it's you know,
(04:08):
it's very delicious. Okay, So before we get into this
heated debate, John and Vinny, tell us a little bit
about what you got going on right now. What's what's
the newest restaurant that you're opening up or a project
that you're doing. We just opened uh kist Rotistory with
Sarahimison and Sarah Kramer or just yesterday literally opened that
with them, and they're sort of you know, dropping some
(04:29):
rotissory chicken and lots of good sort of you know,
Middle Eastern vegetables, and it's really delicious protein and veg.
Everyone loves chicken. That you're in the chicken business. I
am in the chicken business, Courtney. You are not in
the chicken business. I do not believe I'm not in
the chicken business. What are you got going on right now?
What are some of your favorite things in the food world?
(04:51):
In the food world, you guys. I actually my boyfriend's
a restaurant tour so I go to his places. He
has Cafe Bertie and Highland Park, so kind of almost
well in the your in the boyfriend. Yeah, and is
that considered a band aid or not a band aid? Wait,
he wanted to say that he's such a big fans
(05:12):
of you guys. Thank you. Yeah, there you go. Look
at this like it's it's gonna be a heated debate,
but we're getting some of the pleasantries out right off
the bat. What are you going? What's going on with you?
In the in the comedy, in the podcast world. In
the podcast world, I have a podcast called Private Parts Unknown.
It's about loving popular It is just slamming popular um.
And we have recently taken trips to Helsinki in Mexico City,
(05:36):
and we're going to Tokyo next month. I need food
rex for Tokyo. If you guys have been, we just
came back. We're over there just recently. Video it's almost
it's too much. It's overwhelming. There, there's so many good
things to get into. I think the thing that you
know kind of always get you as an American. You
think the sushi is gonna be like the star of
the show. But that's just like doesn't even scratch the
(05:57):
surface into all the other cool things that the Jaese
culture is doing in in Japan. Yeah, I think like
the acuatory stuff is cool. This the soba stuff is
really interesting. Just all those things. You know, obviously the
ram and stuff, but the raman's gotten so good in
America that special be in we had delicious rama. I
just I think that. I mean, yeah, I think going
to those like the soba is one of the ones
(06:19):
that really stood out to us this last trip. Maybe
that's the next thing. Maybe maybe we need to get
into this. Okay, listen, the pleasant trees. This is it's
being too pleasant right now. To be honest, this has
to be ready, John and Vinny, you're ready. So in
a sentence or two, John and Vinny, you have brought
to the food courts. I think that ranches sort of
(06:40):
the vanilla of dressing. You know, it's so crazy. We
hadn't even talked about it. I feel the exact same.
We literally haven't talked about this at all, but vanilla
is the most popular, It is the most generic. This
is what I would say about ranch. It's always dressed
the same blue cheese. She could dress a lot of
(07:00):
different ways. Okay, we're gonna get a chance to get
into why you love blue cheese. Basically, John and Vinny
Courtney are calling ranch basic af I think is what
the kids would say. Courtney, what's your take on ranch dressing?
Real quick? One sense, Ranch dressing is amazing. It's comfort food.
It's like chicken noodle soup, except it's vegetarian. It's like
(07:21):
being breastfed directly from a cow. It's so good. It
is so good. That's glue cheese. It's just pretentious. Let's
cheese is also from a cow. This is great. Okay,
here we go before we get into it from other animals.
Water in the court, Water in the court, and you
will have time to debate, and we're gonna get into
that right now. But I like this. This is a
(07:42):
there's a high low sort of game happening right here.
Blue cheese first, ranch dressing it before we get into
the debate here at food court I have a quick
little trivia around before the oral arguments. The winner of
the trivia around gets to decide the order that you present.
So let's test your knowledge. John and Vinny. Test your buzzer.
So you know what sound is you It is the
(08:03):
the prize fighter bell. The bell it's it's it's aproximate.
And Courtney, your sound buzzer. You want to bring that
to the mic. It is, oh, the classic game show buzzer. Okay,
so Courtney, the game show buzzer. John and Vinny, you
have the ringside bell. Here we go with the trivia.
Everyone ready, Okay, you'll ring your bell if you want
to answer first, fill in the blank. A lot of
(08:25):
people think the number one condiment in America is catch up,
but the number one condiment is actually okay, that's Courtney,
It is not ranch. The for the win mayonnaise is correct,
John and Vinny as a team gets one point for
the first That was kind of a trick. That is
(08:45):
a trick question. Is a trick question? How did you
know that so quickly? Is being a restaurant? Oh my gosh,
is it in everything at your restaurant? What's funny about
hates mayonnaise, but he loves a Oli, so it's like
he just doesn't like the name. I don't like. I
don't you know what the thing about it is that
can really pick up that like really cheap oil flavor. Yes,
and I really hate that. It really drives me crazy.
(09:08):
So I like like a handmade mayonnaise or mayonnaise that
you buy like a Helmon's or Best Foods that then
it's got a lot of the Mississippi that's the vanilla,
but not if you're flavoring it. Jos Blaze is not here.
Have you ever had a mayonnaise sandwich? Oh my god,
you're from Florida, Florida. It tells you. It tells you everything.
(09:34):
Once you reveal the Florida car, it tells Yeah, it
really gives it. I will remain unbiased. Okay, here we go.
Question to John and Viney are at one point. Now
this one is personal and uh, we all know each other,
but you don't know me incredibly well. So I'll be
surprised if you know this. What is my favorite classic
salad dressing? My favorite? Okay Caesar? Oh oh okay, Courney, Um, okay, listen,
(10:03):
Actually we're going back to the booth for the review.
Producer Crystal is telling me that it was said over
here on this side. Then he said, thousand and a
thousand island dressing. You stand a good way. There's Caesar
kind of guy. And by the way, there's the punch
back on the Florida comment. There strike me as a
(10:25):
thousand island dresser. You're Atlanta, right, it's gonna catch up
in it. It's spread. It's big mac sauce kind of right.
It's the secret in and out there. It is right exactly,
it's the spread. Okay, here we go. Question three, but
here's the things question. Can we debate those fries are garbage? Uh?
(10:50):
And it seems like you all want to come back,
which is we'll get deep into this. Okay, listen. Question three, Corny,
don't worry this one now is going to be worth
double the points. Actually no, you know what, no, triple
the point because you need it. You're down two points.
So if you get this one right, you will get
the advantage. Everyone ready. Question three, where was the actual
hidden Valley ranch located? Courtney, Alaska? Oh? This is yes,
(11:15):
here we go California. Okay, this isn't It was in California.
Could you want to be more specific? Damn it? I
know it's it's central. It's central coast, central coastral coast,
take a shot. Does it have to be a city north?
It's outside of San Luis, s Abisspo. Okay, yes, I
(11:36):
think it's than that. Okay, no, no one gets the answer. Yeah. Actually, uh, Courtney,
the guy was from Alaska, so you get you're going
to get a point just for knowing that the gentleman
whose name was Steve, I believe? Am I making that up?
Okayrab Fisherman a city in California, Santa Barbara. So it
(12:06):
just didn't seem right to me. Yeah, there we go,
John and Vinny you have the advantage. Will you like
to present your argument first? Would you like to be
the home team and have Courtney present? Let Courtney present
her vanilla dressing? Okay, well, I just wanted to let
you guys win the trivia. So he disappointed with the debate,
Courtney has set you up. She is going to get
(12:28):
the chance to present for So here's how this round
is going to work. You will have three minutes to
present your case. In this first round, it's only positives. Courtney,
why you love ranch? Dressing. Why Ranch dressing is the
condiment of choice that makes it hard. I was mostly
prepared to slam well, I knew you would be, and
(12:49):
you will get your chance and a two minute rebuttal
after John and Vinney have their three minutes to talk
about why they love blue She's dressing. Uh, Courtney, are
you ready? Yes, she's ready. But before we get into that,
we have a word from one of our many fabulous sponsors,
(13:11):
and we're back. Okay, Courtney, you have three minutes on
the clock to present to the world why you love
Ranch dressing. Your time starts now. Okay, you guys. Ranch
has been the best selling dressing since Okay, so of
Americans say it's their favorite. The next one is Italian.
(13:35):
Only ten of Americans say that's their favorite. And also,
I'm guessing of Americans would freak out if they got
some surprise blue cheese in their salad. Ranch is made
out of all the same ship as blue cheese, minus
the mold, which I think makes it far superior, because
why would you add mold to anything that's just insane? Yeah,
(13:59):
let me see, blue cheese is garbage. Blue cheese is garbage. Yeah, Yeah,
it's so creamy, but it has a kick. It goes
with pretty much everything. You could even put it on,
say your pizza fellas. I don't know. I bet a
lot of people would be into that. Yeah. I said
(14:21):
this earlier, but it is the ultimate comfort food. I
feel like you could get over a breakup with ranch dressing.
You could get over the death of a loved one
with enough ranch dressing. What else is amazing about It's front.
It's really popular in the Midwest, So I feel like
eating ranch dressing probably makes you nicer as a person
(14:45):
that tracks. Right, Um oh, they're over here trying to
make notes and talk. This is both We didn't even
talk about this at all. I mean, you'll have your time,
You'll have your touch time, Okay, continue to profess your love.
Oh my god. Yeah, okay. So going back to the
(15:08):
surprise element, I once got blue cheese in my dressing.
I thought it was ranch, and it came and it
was blue cheese, and it made me so suspicious of
all salads. It basically made me swear off salads because
I was like, if I am going to get this
trash on my iceberg lattus, I just don't want it. So,
(15:31):
oh my god, forty seconds. This is so crazy. Um,
Ranch is amazing. I don't even I think that's that's it.
I'm going to rest my case. Okay, there we go,
Courtney resting her case using only two minutes and thirty seconds.
(15:51):
But that's how much? Is there anything else to say?
A lot of great points there, John and Vinnie. It
makes you nicer, which is one that I is gonna
It's gonna be hard to combat. Now, you guys, you'll
have three minutes to talk about your love of blue
cheese dressing again using only positives. Are you ready for
your three minutes? I'm ready. Okay, here we go. Your
(16:12):
three minutes to talk about blue cheese dressing starts now,
your honor. I do want to say I do like
Ranch dressing. But like she said, the Americans have voted
for Ranch, also voted for Trump, right, So let's just start.
So that's what I wanted to begin. The other thing
(16:32):
that I would say about Ranch is it's really only
one note. It's a basic dressing, right. Can you use
it on everything? You probably can? But that's what makes
blue cheese special. Americans. They look for guidance blue cheese,
which was popular for many many years. Your parents love
blue cheese dressing. Ranch was introduced after blue cheese dressing.
(16:55):
So what happened there is kids weren't introduced to blue
cheese dressing at a younger age anymore. They started getting
introduced to mayonnaise. And that's why ranch is so popular
because it's basically like seasoned mayonnaise where blue cheese dressing.
When you make blue cheese dressing, there's so many different
ways that it can be made. It could be made
(17:16):
like an oil and vinegar based blue cheese dressing, it
could be made of creamy blue cheese dressing, and then
we just get into all the different varieties of blue
cheese that are out there, right, there's all different kinds
of blue cheese. Obviously, a lot of people were commonly
having maytag blue cheese, which unfortunately is no longer around.
I don't know if you are familiar with the maytag plant,
(17:37):
but that's no longer exists. But because of that, it's
opened up a lot of doors for a lot of
new blue cheeses, which have given a lot of different
notes to blue cheese dressing. So, you know, while ranch
is great, blue cheese just has so many more looks
and opportunities that a kid approached to somebody, Wow, ranch
(17:57):
is just kind of just common, you know. It's like
I'm was like, just like I said, it's flavored mayonnaise.
So then you got anything you want to add to it?
I would. I would say that blue cheese has complexity,
like John said, it has complexity that ranch doesn't have.
It provides more flavor than than a ranch does. I
(18:19):
almost forgot about blue cheese until you sent the email
saying that you wanted and then I said, oh my god,
where I've been missing blue cheese my whole life. Said
that's what's been wrong with our restaurants. We need to
bring it back. And I think part of what's amazing
about food is like there's always kind of this evan flow.
Just blue cheese went out of style for a little while,
(18:42):
but girl, you better watch out. You gotta see it
on the food, and we like you really like there's
certain things that that each dressing goes well with. But
I think blue cheese compare well with other high end things.
I think ranch brings things down very and if you're
drinking wine, very low class. If you're drinking wine, That's
(19:05):
where I was going with it. You knew it. It's
like the Yellowtail. You're drinking yellowtail wine and having fries. Ranch,
you're having blue cheese dressing with the cheese with a steak. Okay, uh,
some really amazing points on both sides, cheese and fruit.
The boys you're getting into sort of some of the
negatives there at the end, really sort of going on
(19:25):
the attack. And you have both given me lots to
think about. I mean, one surprising thing, Jona Vinny to
tell me that you forgot about blue cheese. I don't
know if that serves your case. Well, Courtney, not being
able to fill up a three minute block is also
a little bit concerning there. Uh. Now, I didn't totally
forget about it, but I didn't better in the same
(19:48):
way that I do now after just thinking about blue
cheese verse ranch. And that's really what happened. So if
the food court uh inspired an audition of your menus
that that could possibly sway that, No, I will not
sway me. I cannot be swayed. Literally, like two weeks
ago before you sent this email, I was like, man,
(20:09):
you know what has been missing? I was like, just
a good spinach salad with some fresh pear and a
nice blue cheese dressing in some candy walnuts. I was like,
m and I literally put it on a menu and
then you sent this emailing. You really need to take
a full life assessments that I have ranch all the
(20:32):
time in my life. And that's you know, kind of
what happens. Okay, order in the court. It's getting heated. Courtney,
you have two minutes now for your rebuttal. This is
where you get to tell the guys why blue cheese
dressing sucks. Are you ready? I am so ready. Your
two minutes start now. Okay, blue cheese is forgettable. That
(20:52):
is the best case scenario. I smoke so much weed
and I could never be high enough to want to
eat blue a cheese, which is crazy, you guys. It
tastes like feet. It's like if you wear the same
socks for a month and then you try to eat them.
That is just absolutely disgusting. And can I just say,
(21:13):
people who say that they like blue cheese, first of all,
I don't even believe them. I think that they just,
you know, are trying to signal to the rest of
us that they're better than us. But people that blue
that like blue cheese, I think they also like the
smell of their own farts. Um, especially the people that
smell it. B l e U. That's not even how
(21:35):
you smell blue. Yeah, it's uh, it's not even loose
like feta. I can I could go with a cheese
like feta, but it's it's like cold, moldy soup. Um. Oh,
this is the best, you guys. So the origin of
blue cheese, it was invented on accident by a drunken cheesemaker.
(21:59):
And it's like a drunken hookup where you had a kid.
It's like that never should have happened. That was not
part of the plan, whereas ranch was invented by a
sweet plumber in Alaska. Oh oh my god. And the
top one of the top search results when you google
blue cheese is why does blue cheese tastes like vomit?
Do you know how many people have to type that
(22:22):
into Google for it to rank that high. There is
a very strong consensus that blue cheese tastes like vomits.
I don't even know if I need more time. Oh
you know what, People eat blue cheese with buffalo wings,
and that's because the buffalo wings burn their mouth. They
burn the taste buds temporarily, so you can tolerate that
(22:44):
in your mouth. Courtney Kossak coming in hot with perhaps
so far on season one of Food Court, the most
vicious rebuttal. She did a lot of Research's seen all
her papers. There's a lot of research cases being presented
with zero research. That's not a good get high enough
(23:06):
to crave it. Elitist feet and farts all came out,
and that John and Vinnie, you now have your two minutes.
Your time starts now. I'm just gonna start by saying
that Ranch only only goes with things that are trashy.
And I just want to go back to comment. I
(23:28):
smoke weed all the time, and I'm telling you the
weed she gets probably is not that good because my
weed makes you want to eat anything and everything. You
eat paper, right, And don't kid me that she hasn't
sat in a bathtub and farted, took the bubble and
bit it. You're wrong. Pre human in the world has
(23:50):
done that. So if you're complaining that defeat smell you
don't want enjoy, but then don't take a bath that
defart bubble. He's eating paper, he's smelling bubbles. You still
got a minute left but I am going to say that,
Like I said, I think I think ranch only only
only goes with trashy food. Yeah, and now that I've
(24:12):
got all my out of the way, I think Vinnie's
totally steaks. You could eat blue cheese with a good steak.
The internet eat blue cheese with good wine, she said,
the Internet. You know what, blue cheese fell out of
popularity before the Internet was even around, and we're bringing
it back, right, And people look at Vinnie and I
to help set trends in the culinary world, like you said,
(24:32):
and we're coming here battling about blue cheese because it's
it's lost interest with these younger, trashier kids that that
Instagram and eat fart bubbles in the afternoon. Okay, so
they only eat what other people eating post pictures of.
But I would say that if you like to smoke weed,
which you commented, weed has such unique smell to it,
(24:55):
a very interesting nose on it, right, mustie cheese, which
that's where I was going with it, Vin, Okay, And
I just would say that it's way more complex like
we are. Oh my god, there it is. The vicious
rebuttals on both ends, the versatility of blue cheese, versatility
(25:16):
and high end, high end. Most people couldn't afford blue
cheese because of the cost of the actual cheese that
went into it, and that's why ranch became popular. Okay,
you've had your time. You've had, You've had, You've had
your time, John and Vinny Courtney. You have presented to
the food court and incredibly difficult producer crystals. Ask if
(25:36):
I need a minute to come up with the answer
some really really valid points. Basically, John and Vinny, Uh,
letting Courtney know that ranch is trashy and for the
basic you've presented a high low case. Um, you let
me know that blue cheese can go high low. It
could be for steaks, it could be for wings. It's versatile. Uh,
(25:57):
it's coming back. It's gonna be trendy. Courtney, your rebuttal
was epic. I mean it will. It will replay in
my ears for a long time. That blue cheese smells
like farts feet. It's a bad hook up. You can't
get high enough to want to have blue cheese. I
have some serious thoughts personally on whether blue cheese or
(26:18):
ranch dressing is more delicious. But this court is all
about the arguments that have been presented, and I have
a decision America. The condiment today that is going to
take home the wind and nothing else except bragging rights
for this moment is ranch dressing. I have spoken. Ranch
(26:45):
dressing is winning. Because Courtney, your rebuttal, you will be
There is a bailiff, Christopher, the bailiff. You will take
John and Vinnie out of here. I am the honorable judge.
I am not trash. What an epic row down, guys,
You're gonna come back, come back. I mean it was close.
Let's be honest, it was super super close. I do
(27:06):
want blue cheese right now. I like the smell of
my own farts. I guess is what I'm saying. Uh, Courtney,
what do you have going on here? What's what you'r?
You have many podcasts? I have many podcasts. Check out
The Bellas podcast is a show I produced with the
Bella Twins and Yeah, Private Parts unknown as Popping and
the Tokyo apps are gonna be amazing. So that's gonna
(27:26):
be amazing. People can find you at Courtney Kosak on
Instagram and Twitter. Oh hell yeah, well they you guys.
I'm starting to post bikini picks, so head on over
you will there be will there be ranch dressing making
an appearance on the ground, probably if you're lucky. There
you go, John and Vinney. You guys are just continue
to build your empire here in Los Angeles. And we
(27:48):
like California. Man, there you go. You like California. Nice.
So the newest project it is the rotisserie. Yeah, we
got the rotisserie. We have a John and Vinny's in
construction right now down into South l a down Baldwin
Hills area. Hopefully get to come on right at the
end of the summer. And the question is right there heights,
there's pizza. John, do you do you let people dip
pizza in ranch dressing? You sell ranch as a side?
(28:11):
We do? And I think that officially closes this class.
We said we like ranch a lot. I mean you
don't want to, you know, blue cheese, not with pizza.
Maybe on a fancy Yeah that's funny unless you're insane,
fair enough, and there we go. Food Court is a
production of I Heart Radio. I'm Richard Blaze. My producer
is Crystal. Food Court was created by our executive producer,
(28:33):
Christopher Hasiotis. The rest of my food Court clerks are
Gabrielle Collins, David Wasserman, and Jasmine Blaze. Theme songs by
Jason Nay Smith. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows, and until next episode,
stay Spurts Clothes with
Creamy, Creamy food Court, food Court, food Court with Shirt Blase,
Argue with the food Court. Court with Shurt Blase. Food
(00:32):
Here we go. Hey everyone, welcome to food Court. A
production of I Heart Radio. Food Court is now in session.
I love doing that. I'm the Honorable Richard Blaze, am
I don't know, maybe not presiding. This is your podcast
where I settle all of your food debates once and
for all. You are welcome world. This had to be done.
This is serious business, and it's incredibly serious today. I'm
(00:55):
a chef and I've competed, judge or hosted nearly every
food show. So I've decided that makes me qualified to
preside over this court specifically today. Joining us in court,
we have a little something different this week. We have
two guys who have been a team since um, pretty
much forever. Right, I've none killing it, killing the game
(01:19):
since ninety nine. I've known you guys for what I'm
gonna say, ten years. It's got to be at least
ten years. And I'm in high school. Smack talk is happening. Uh,
and you guys are kind of literally never apart, right,
I mean, I'm sure, I mean, I mean we're but
you know, we always even if one of us there,
(01:39):
we always build it as both of us there. It
is okay to James Beard Award winners, a huge part
of the Los Angeles restaurant renaissance. It's John Shook and
Vinnie Titlo. Thanks for having us. I want to call
you judge by the way, I like it. Yes, I
was wearing the robe. Jud Yes, Okay, it's gonna It's
gonna happen. Okay. Uh and of but listen because this
(02:01):
is a twist. John and Vinny you're arguing though even
there's two of you, you're arguing the same side today,
so you will be participating as a team. This has
never happened in the food court. So it's time to
introduce the brave soul who is willing to take on
these two Los Angeles Empire restaurateurs. It's Los Angeles based writer, podcaster,
(02:22):
all around renaissance woman. It's Courtney Kossak. Hello, I'm down
my writing partner. I write comedy with a a lady
named Sophia Alexandra, and I am also with her all
the time, so I feel like I should have had
her here to go against you guys. Yeah, Well, while
we're on. Then while we're on the topic, Jasmine Blaze,
you know, writes a lot of my stuff as well,
(02:42):
and she's not here. So I feel you Courtney, like,
I get it. You guys like a little lost right now.
I should have Richard on my team. Well, the politics
will hold on. That's the judge. Camp be on your team.
Water in the court, Water in the court. Yes, I
have to remain unbiased. A matter of fact, let's get
that right out of the way right now. I might
have some opinions on the topics that we're getting into today,
but during the proceeding I will remain unbiased and my
(03:06):
verdict will depend only on your debate. So let's get
into what the topic is today. You'll be facing off
in an age old argument of blue cheese versus ranch dressing.
I can't even believe you guys are willing to debate firm.
(03:26):
That's insane. It is underdog where I mean we are.
Don't underestimate blue cheese. That it's a very chefy take.
I mean, does it get more American than ranch dressing?
Does it get maybe more on American than blue cheese?
I don't know, but this debate is very American. That's
what it's all about. It's red, white, and blue, see
(03:47):
what it's Do you have any opinions on that too?
I don't like, like, do you spell blue cheese with
the EU or do you go you okay? Alright, alright,
so that's good. It's pretentious. The other way it's pretentious.
We try to drop all the pretense in the in
the blue Cheese has gotten a lot of just bad
raps about it, you know, but I think it's you know,
(04:08):
it's very delicious. Okay, So before we get into this
heated debate, John and Vinny, tell us a little bit
about what you got going on right now. What's what's
the newest restaurant that you're opening up or a project
that you're doing. We just opened uh kist Rotistory with
Sarahimison and Sarah Kramer or just yesterday literally opened that
with them, and they're sort of you know, dropping some
(04:29):
rotissory chicken and lots of good sort of you know,
Middle Eastern vegetables, and it's really delicious protein and veg.
Everyone loves chicken. That you're in the chicken business. I
am in the chicken business, Courtney. You are not in
the chicken business. I do not believe I'm not in
the chicken business. What are you got going on right now?
What are some of your favorite things in the food world?
(04:51):
In the food world, you guys. I actually my boyfriend's
a restaurant tour so I go to his places. He
has Cafe Bertie and Highland Park, so kind of almost
well in the your in the boyfriend. Yeah, and is
that considered a band aid or not a band aid? Wait,
he wanted to say that he's such a big fans
(05:12):
of you guys. Thank you. Yeah, there you go. Look
at this like it's it's gonna be a heated debate,
but we're getting some of the pleasantries out right off
the bat. What are you going? What's going on with you?
In the in the comedy, in the podcast world. In
the podcast world, I have a podcast called Private Parts Unknown.
It's about loving popular It is just slamming popular um.
And we have recently taken trips to Helsinki in Mexico City,
(05:36):
and we're going to Tokyo next month. I need food
rex for Tokyo. If you guys have been, we just
came back. We're over there just recently. Video it's almost
it's too much. It's overwhelming. There, there's so many good
things to get into. I think the thing that you
know kind of always get you as an American. You
think the sushi is gonna be like the star of
the show. But that's just like doesn't even scratch the
(05:57):
surface into all the other cool things that the Jaese
culture is doing in in Japan. Yeah, I think like
the acuatory stuff is cool. This the soba stuff is
really interesting. Just all those things. You know, obviously the
ram and stuff, but the raman's gotten so good in
America that special be in we had delicious rama. I
just I think that. I mean, yeah, I think going
to those like the soba is one of the ones
(06:19):
that really stood out to us this last trip. Maybe
that's the next thing. Maybe maybe we need to get
into this. Okay, listen, the pleasant trees. This is it's
being too pleasant right now. To be honest, this has
to be ready, John and Vinny, you're ready. So in
a sentence or two, John and Vinny, you have brought
to the food courts. I think that ranches sort of
(06:40):
the vanilla of dressing. You know, it's so crazy. We
hadn't even talked about it. I feel the exact same.
We literally haven't talked about this at all, but vanilla
is the most popular, It is the most generic. This
is what I would say about ranch. It's always dressed
the same blue cheese. She could dress a lot of
(07:00):
different ways. Okay, we're gonna get a chance to get
into why you love blue cheese. Basically, John and Vinny
Courtney are calling ranch basic af I think is what
the kids would say. Courtney, what's your take on ranch dressing?
Real quick? One sense, Ranch dressing is amazing. It's comfort food.
It's like chicken noodle soup, except it's vegetarian. It's like
(07:21):
being breastfed directly from a cow. It's so good. It
is so good. That's glue cheese. It's just pretentious. Let's
cheese is also from a cow. This is great. Okay,
here we go before we get into it from other animals.
Water in the court, Water in the court, and you
will have time to debate, and we're gonna get into
that right now. But I like this. This is a
(07:42):
there's a high low sort of game happening right here.
Blue cheese first, ranch dressing it before we get into
the debate here at food court I have a quick
little trivia around before the oral arguments. The winner of
the trivia around gets to decide the order that you present.
So let's test your knowledge. John and Vinny. Test your buzzer.
So you know what sound is you It is the
(08:03):
the prize fighter bell. The bell it's it's it's aproximate.
And Courtney, your sound buzzer. You want to bring that
to the mic. It is, oh, the classic game show buzzer. Okay,
so Courtney, the game show buzzer. John and Vinny, you
have the ringside bell. Here we go with the trivia.
Everyone ready, Okay, you'll ring your bell if you want
to answer first, fill in the blank. A lot of
(08:25):
people think the number one condiment in America is catch up,
but the number one condiment is actually okay, that's Courtney,
It is not ranch. The for the win mayonnaise is correct,
John and Vinny as a team gets one point for
the first That was kind of a trick. That is
(08:45):
a trick question. Is a trick question? How did you
know that so quickly? Is being a restaurant? Oh my gosh,
is it in everything at your restaurant? What's funny about
hates mayonnaise, but he loves a Oli, so it's like
he just doesn't like the name. I don't like. I
don't you know what the thing about it is that
can really pick up that like really cheap oil flavor. Yes,
and I really hate that. It really drives me crazy.
(09:08):
So I like like a handmade mayonnaise or mayonnaise that
you buy like a Helmon's or Best Foods that then
it's got a lot of the Mississippi that's the vanilla,
but not if you're flavoring it. Jos Blaze is not here.
Have you ever had a mayonnaise sandwich? Oh my god,
you're from Florida, Florida. It tells you. It tells you everything.
(09:34):
Once you reveal the Florida car, it tells Yeah, it
really gives it. I will remain unbiased. Okay, here we go.
Question to John and Viney are at one point. Now
this one is personal and uh, we all know each other,
but you don't know me incredibly well. So I'll be
surprised if you know this. What is my favorite classic
salad dressing? My favorite? Okay Caesar? Oh oh okay, Courney, Um, okay, listen,
(10:03):
Actually we're going back to the booth for the review.
Producer Crystal is telling me that it was said over
here on this side. Then he said, thousand and a
thousand island dressing. You stand a good way. There's Caesar
kind of guy. And by the way, there's the punch
back on the Florida comment. There strike me as a
(10:25):
thousand island dresser. You're Atlanta, right, it's gonna catch up
in it. It's spread. It's big mac sauce kind of right.
It's the secret in and out there. It is right exactly,
it's the spread. Okay, here we go. Question three, but
here's the things question. Can we debate those fries are garbage? Uh?
(10:50):
And it seems like you all want to come back,
which is we'll get deep into this. Okay, listen. Question three, Corny,
don't worry this one now is going to be worth
double the points. Actually no, you know what, no, triple
the point because you need it. You're down two points.
So if you get this one right, you will get
the advantage. Everyone ready. Question three, where was the actual
hidden Valley ranch located? Courtney, Alaska? Oh? This is yes,
(11:15):
here we go California. Okay, this isn't It was in California.
Could you want to be more specific? Damn it? I
know it's it's central. It's central coast, central coastral coast,
take a shot. Does it have to be a city north?
It's outside of San Luis, s Abisspo. Okay, yes, I
(11:36):
think it's than that. Okay, no, no one gets the answer. Yeah. Actually, uh, Courtney,
the guy was from Alaska, so you get you're going
to get a point just for knowing that the gentleman
whose name was Steve, I believe? Am I making that up?
Okayrab Fisherman a city in California, Santa Barbara. So it
(12:06):
just didn't seem right to me. Yeah, there we go,
John and Vinny you have the advantage. Will you like
to present your argument first? Would you like to be
the home team and have Courtney present? Let Courtney present
her vanilla dressing? Okay, well, I just wanted to let
you guys win the trivia. So he disappointed with the debate,
Courtney has set you up. She is going to get
(12:28):
the chance to present for So here's how this round
is going to work. You will have three minutes to
present your case. In this first round, it's only positives. Courtney,
why you love ranch? Dressing. Why Ranch dressing is the
condiment of choice that makes it hard. I was mostly
prepared to slam well, I knew you would be, and
(12:49):
you will get your chance and a two minute rebuttal
after John and Vinney have their three minutes to talk
about why they love blue She's dressing. Uh, Courtney, are
you ready? Yes, she's ready. But before we get into that,
we have a word from one of our many fabulous sponsors,
(13:11):
and we're back. Okay, Courtney, you have three minutes on
the clock to present to the world why you love
Ranch dressing. Your time starts now. Okay, you guys. Ranch
has been the best selling dressing since Okay, so of
Americans say it's their favorite. The next one is Italian.
(13:35):
Only ten of Americans say that's their favorite. And also,
I'm guessing of Americans would freak out if they got
some surprise blue cheese in their salad. Ranch is made
out of all the same ship as blue cheese, minus
the mold, which I think makes it far superior, because
why would you add mold to anything that's just insane? Yeah,
(13:59):
let me see, blue cheese is garbage. Blue cheese is garbage. Yeah, Yeah,
it's so creamy, but it has a kick. It goes
with pretty much everything. You could even put it on,
say your pizza fellas. I don't know. I bet a
lot of people would be into that. Yeah. I said
(14:21):
this earlier, but it is the ultimate comfort food. I
feel like you could get over a breakup with ranch dressing.
You could get over the death of a loved one
with enough ranch dressing. What else is amazing about It's front.
It's really popular in the Midwest, So I feel like
eating ranch dressing probably makes you nicer as a person
(14:45):
that tracks. Right, Um oh, they're over here trying to
make notes and talk. This is both We didn't even
talk about this at all. I mean, you'll have your time,
You'll have your touch time, Okay, continue to profess your love.
Oh my god. Yeah, okay. So going back to the
(15:08):
surprise element, I once got blue cheese in my dressing.
I thought it was ranch, and it came and it
was blue cheese, and it made me so suspicious of
all salads. It basically made me swear off salads because
I was like, if I am going to get this
trash on my iceberg lattus, I just don't want it. So,
(15:31):
oh my god, forty seconds. This is so crazy. Um,
Ranch is amazing. I don't even I think that's that's it.
I'm going to rest my case. Okay, there we go,
Courtney resting her case using only two minutes and thirty seconds.
(15:51):
But that's how much? Is there anything else to say?
A lot of great points there, John and Vinnie. It
makes you nicer, which is one that I is gonna
It's gonna be hard to combat. Now, you guys, you'll
have three minutes to talk about your love of blue
cheese dressing again using only positives. Are you ready for
your three minutes? I'm ready. Okay, here we go. Your
(16:12):
three minutes to talk about blue cheese dressing starts now,
your honor. I do want to say I do like
Ranch dressing. But like she said, the Americans have voted
for Ranch, also voted for Trump, right, So let's just start.
So that's what I wanted to begin. The other thing
(16:32):
that I would say about Ranch is it's really only
one note. It's a basic dressing, right. Can you use
it on everything? You probably can? But that's what makes
blue cheese special. Americans. They look for guidance blue cheese,
which was popular for many many years. Your parents love
blue cheese dressing. Ranch was introduced after blue cheese dressing.
(16:55):
So what happened there is kids weren't introduced to blue
cheese dressing at a younger age anymore. They started getting
introduced to mayonnaise. And that's why ranch is so popular
because it's basically like seasoned mayonnaise where blue cheese dressing.
When you make blue cheese dressing, there's so many different
ways that it can be made. It could be made
(17:16):
like an oil and vinegar based blue cheese dressing, it
could be made of creamy blue cheese dressing, and then
we just get into all the different varieties of blue
cheese that are out there, right, there's all different kinds
of blue cheese. Obviously, a lot of people were commonly
having maytag blue cheese, which unfortunately is no longer around.
I don't know if you are familiar with the maytag plant,
(17:37):
but that's no longer exists. But because of that, it's
opened up a lot of doors for a lot of
new blue cheeses, which have given a lot of different
notes to blue cheese dressing. So, you know, while ranch
is great, blue cheese just has so many more looks
and opportunities that a kid approached to somebody, Wow, ranch
(17:57):
is just kind of just common, you know. It's like
I'm was like, just like I said, it's flavored mayonnaise.
So then you got anything you want to add to it?
I would. I would say that blue cheese has complexity,
like John said, it has complexity that ranch doesn't have.
It provides more flavor than than a ranch does. I
(18:19):
almost forgot about blue cheese until you sent the email
saying that you wanted and then I said, oh my god,
where I've been missing blue cheese my whole life. Said
that's what's been wrong with our restaurants. We need to
bring it back. And I think part of what's amazing
about food is like there's always kind of this evan flow.
Just blue cheese went out of style for a little while,
(18:42):
but girl, you better watch out. You gotta see it
on the food, and we like you really like there's
certain things that that each dressing goes well with. But
I think blue cheese compare well with other high end things.
I think ranch brings things down very and if you're
drinking wine, very low class. If you're drinking wine, That's
(19:05):
where I was going with it. You knew it. It's
like the Yellowtail. You're drinking yellowtail wine and having fries. Ranch,
you're having blue cheese dressing with the cheese with a steak. Okay, uh,
some really amazing points on both sides, cheese and fruit.
The boys you're getting into sort of some of the
negatives there at the end, really sort of going on
(19:25):
the attack. And you have both given me lots to
think about. I mean, one surprising thing, Jona Vinny to
tell me that you forgot about blue cheese. I don't
know if that serves your case. Well, Courtney, not being
able to fill up a three minute block is also
a little bit concerning there. Uh. Now, I didn't totally
forget about it, but I didn't better in the same
(19:48):
way that I do now after just thinking about blue
cheese verse ranch. And that's really what happened. So if
the food court uh inspired an audition of your menus
that that could possibly sway that, No, I will not
sway me. I cannot be swayed. Literally, like two weeks
ago before you sent this email, I was like, man,
(20:09):
you know what has been missing? I was like, just
a good spinach salad with some fresh pear and a
nice blue cheese dressing in some candy walnuts. I was like,
m and I literally put it on a menu and
then you sent this emailing. You really need to take
a full life assessments that I have ranch all the
(20:32):
time in my life. And that's you know, kind of
what happens. Okay, order in the court. It's getting heated. Courtney,
you have two minutes now for your rebuttal. This is
where you get to tell the guys why blue cheese
dressing sucks. Are you ready? I am so ready. Your
two minutes start now. Okay, blue cheese is forgettable. That
(20:52):
is the best case scenario. I smoke so much weed
and I could never be high enough to want to
eat blue a cheese, which is crazy, you guys. It
tastes like feet. It's like if you wear the same
socks for a month and then you try to eat them.
That is just absolutely disgusting. And can I just say,
(21:13):
people who say that they like blue cheese, first of all,
I don't even believe them. I think that they just,
you know, are trying to signal to the rest of
us that they're better than us. But people that blue
that like blue cheese, I think they also like the
smell of their own farts. Um, especially the people that
smell it. B l e U. That's not even how
(21:35):
you smell blue. Yeah, it's uh, it's not even loose
like feta. I can I could go with a cheese
like feta, but it's it's like cold, moldy soup. Um. Oh,
this is the best, you guys. So the origin of
blue cheese, it was invented on accident by a drunken cheesemaker.
(21:59):
And it's like a drunken hookup where you had a kid.
It's like that never should have happened. That was not
part of the plan, whereas ranch was invented by a
sweet plumber in Alaska. Oh oh my god. And the
top one of the top search results when you google
blue cheese is why does blue cheese tastes like vomit?
Do you know how many people have to type that
(22:22):
into Google for it to rank that high. There is
a very strong consensus that blue cheese tastes like vomits.
I don't even know if I need more time. Oh
you know what, People eat blue cheese with buffalo wings,
and that's because the buffalo wings burn their mouth. They
burn the taste buds temporarily, so you can tolerate that
(22:44):
in your mouth. Courtney Kossak coming in hot with perhaps
so far on season one of Food Court, the most
vicious rebuttal. She did a lot of Research's seen all
her papers. There's a lot of research cases being presented
with zero research. That's not a good get high enough
(23:06):
to crave it. Elitist feet and farts all came out,
and that John and Vinnie, you now have your two minutes.
Your time starts now. I'm just gonna start by saying
that Ranch only only goes with things that are trashy.
And I just want to go back to comment. I
(23:28):
smoke weed all the time, and I'm telling you the
weed she gets probably is not that good because my
weed makes you want to eat anything and everything. You
eat paper, right, And don't kid me that she hasn't
sat in a bathtub and farted, took the bubble and
bit it. You're wrong. Pre human in the world has
(23:50):
done that. So if you're complaining that defeat smell you
don't want enjoy, but then don't take a bath that
defart bubble. He's eating paper, he's smelling bubbles. You still
got a minute left but I am going to say that,
Like I said, I think I think ranch only only
only goes with trashy food. Yeah, and now that I've
(24:12):
got all my out of the way, I think Vinnie's
totally steaks. You could eat blue cheese with a good steak.
The internet eat blue cheese with good wine, she said,
the Internet. You know what, blue cheese fell out of
popularity before the Internet was even around, and we're bringing
it back, right, And people look at Vinnie and I
to help set trends in the culinary world, like you said,
(24:32):
and we're coming here battling about blue cheese because it's
it's lost interest with these younger, trashier kids that that
Instagram and eat fart bubbles in the afternoon. Okay, so
they only eat what other people eating post pictures of.
But I would say that if you like to smoke weed,
which you commented, weed has such unique smell to it,
(24:55):
a very interesting nose on it, right, mustie cheese, which
that's where I was going with it, Vin, Okay, And
I just would say that it's way more complex like
we are. Oh my god, there it is. The vicious
rebuttals on both ends, the versatility of blue cheese, versatility
(25:16):
and high end, high end. Most people couldn't afford blue
cheese because of the cost of the actual cheese that
went into it, and that's why ranch became popular. Okay,
you've had your time. You've had, You've had, You've had
your time, John and Vinny Courtney. You have presented to
the food court and incredibly difficult producer crystals. Ask if
(25:36):
I need a minute to come up with the answer
some really really valid points. Basically, John and Vinny, Uh,
letting Courtney know that ranch is trashy and for the
basic you've presented a high low case. Um, you let
me know that blue cheese can go high low. It
could be for steaks, it could be for wings. It's versatile. Uh,
(25:57):
it's coming back. It's gonna be trendy. Courtney, your rebuttal
was epic. I mean it will. It will replay in
my ears for a long time. That blue cheese smells
like farts feet. It's a bad hook up. You can't
get high enough to want to have blue cheese. I
have some serious thoughts personally on whether blue cheese or
(26:18):
ranch dressing is more delicious. But this court is all
about the arguments that have been presented, and I have
a decision America. The condiment today that is going to
take home the wind and nothing else except bragging rights
for this moment is ranch dressing. I have spoken. Ranch
(26:45):
dressing is winning. Because Courtney, your rebuttal, you will be
There is a bailiff, Christopher, the bailiff. You will take
John and Vinnie out of here. I am the honorable judge.
I am not trash. What an epic row down, guys,
You're gonna come back, come back. I mean it was close.
Let's be honest, it was super super close. I do
(27:06):
want blue cheese right now. I like the smell of
my own farts. I guess is what I'm saying. Uh, Courtney,
what do you have going on here? What's what you'r?
You have many podcasts? I have many podcasts. Check out
The Bellas podcast is a show I produced with the
Bella Twins and Yeah, Private Parts unknown as Popping and
the Tokyo apps are gonna be amazing. So that's gonna
(27:26):
be amazing. People can find you at Courtney Kosak on
Instagram and Twitter. Oh hell yeah, well they you guys.
I'm starting to post bikini picks, so head on over
you will there be will there be ranch dressing making
an appearance on the ground, probably if you're lucky. There
you go, John and Vinney. You guys are just continue
to build your empire here in Los Angeles. And we
(27:48):
like California. Man, there you go. You like California. Nice.
So the newest project it is the rotisserie. Yeah, we
got the rotisserie. We have a John and Vinny's in
construction right now down into South l a down Baldwin
Hills area. Hopefully get to come on right at the
end of the summer. And the question is right there heights,
there's pizza. John, do you do you let people dip
pizza in ranch dressing? You sell ranch as a side?
(28:11):
We do? And I think that officially closes this class.
We said we like ranch a lot. I mean you
don't want to, you know, blue cheese, not with pizza.
Maybe on a fancy Yeah that's funny unless you're insane,
fair enough, and there we go. Food Court is a
production of I Heart Radio. I'm Richard Blaze. My producer
is Crystal. Food Court was created by our executive producer,
(28:33):
Christopher Hasiotis. The rest of my food Court clerks are
Gabrielle Collins, David Wasserman, and Jasmine Blaze. Theme songs by
Jason Nay Smith. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows, and until next episode,
stay Spurts Clothes with
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