July 27, 2021 • 36 mins
In the season two finale of Food Court with Richard Blais Richard is faced with two old friends with a score to settle. Food writers, critics and podcast hosts Jennifer Zyman (The Food that Binds) and Mara Davis (Sounds Delicious) are here to argue which is better? The old standby; buffalo wings or the scrappy upstart; lemon pepper wings. Two cities enter, but only one will leave victorious.... which one will it be??
**NOTE** Apologies for the audio issues this week but mostly I'd like to thank Spectrum for the most unstable internet connection in all the land
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Creamy, Creamy food Court. Food Court, food Court with rich Blaze?
Are you in the food Court? Court with rich Blase?
(00:25):
Food Welcome to the food Court. A production of I
Heart Radio. Food Court is now in session. We are back.
I am your host and judge Richard Blaze, And this
is the podcast where I get to tell you if
(00:45):
you're right or wrong about your weird food opinions. And
let me tell you, I have gotten really really good
at it. I could tell people they're right or wrong
all day. It is just a special gift. You are
welcome and joining us in the court. We have two
stalwarts of the Atlanta food scene who recently launched their
own food podcast, We All go way back. The first
(01:08):
is the host of The Food That Binds. It's Jennifer Zeman.
Thanks for having me. Is going on? Jennifer? What are you?
What are you up to? It's a it's a little
people can't see us because this is just audio, but
it does look a little, a little dark and cavernous.
Over there. I'm in a room hiding from my children
where the acoustics are the best, and it is a
bit dark. But I I've just been doing my thing.
(01:30):
I'm still writing for Atlanta magazine Eater bon Apetite Kitchen,
and then I started this podcast kind of in the
middle of the pandemic because I wasn't doing restaurant criticism
anymore and it was an opportunity to talk to chefs
about their origin stories or superhero origin stories. Oh, I
love that. I love a good origin story. Yeah, as
(01:52):
a critic, right, and like it's we've always sort of
we've had many critics on this on this podcast. Like
the question is always like is that sort of something
that's fading away? But as you mentioned, during the pandemic,
you can't critique anything right now. And then you also
don't want to be a hater because people are suffering. Yes,
I would rather lift people up today, but I don't
know if I won't go back to criticism. I feel
(02:14):
like Sasha was just on my pod, and you know,
we both still think that it's a very useful service. Yes, no,
it is. It keeps people cooking good food and sort
of knowing they need to keep cooking good food. Right.
So yeah, I've always been even though I've I've sometimes disagreed,
even probably with your own personal critique. I'm sure I
(02:34):
comment I do appreciate. I don't I don't quite remember, Okay,
I remember everywhere. But it's good to see you, and
and thank you for hiding from your children and escaping,
escaping to the food court and here to tell Jennifer
she's very, very wrong. It is the host of Sounds Delicious.
It's Maria Davis. Hi Richard. It's so good to see you.
(02:54):
I mean, it's so funny to see you because I
remember when you used to come on my radio show
back in the day, when you were making Fua Graw
milkshakes and you were the toast of the town in Atlanta,
and everybody's like his this rigid place, and then you
open your own restaurant like you were like the the thing.
(03:15):
And look at you now like TV host, podcaster, author.
I mean, I feel like I knew you when you know,
like I just remember you. It's so so now the
only way I can even get close to you is
on a zoom call. This is is a weird world.
I was gonna say, from from toast of the town
(03:36):
with Fua Graw milkshakes to you know, sitting in my
own personal kitchen podcasting, we've all we've all come a
long way. Haven't we now, Mavera, I have to, like,
I have one question that always when when when I'm
chatting with you, and it just I was reminded right there,
of course in the moment, like do you have to
work on this golden voice that you have? Like you
have just this golden voice? Is it something that you
(03:57):
that you practice. You're so sweet to say that and
thank you very much. I am a broadcaster, but because
the radio business basically isn't really a thing so much anymore,
I'm doing more podcasting. But I actually had a lisp
growing up, and I got rid of I was in
(04:18):
speech therapy early early on, and I had to do
things to correct my accents in speaking to like I
would say like I grew up in South Florida, which
is basically New York, and I would say things like
one eight hundred to to to and so I had
(04:39):
to learn how to say things like hundred or w
or in the South they say what why? So I
do work on things like that, and I am definitely
aware of that when I'm in a broadcasting setting. But
podcasting is so much freer, and I think if you're
(04:59):
too broadcast hasty, I don't know it doesn't always work,
but yeah, I work on my voice. Yeah. I mean
there's been a lot of smoky drinking nights that have
gotten it this low. So in that case, yes, therapy works.
Well that's the I was gonna say. That's that's good
practice right there, And I'm here for the first iteration
of By the way, yes, yes, I still don't do
(05:24):
that anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah no, but I but
I think I feel like we gotta we gotta bring
that back. All right. Listen, now I've heard the two
of you have a beef about chicken. That's right. You
see what I did there. I zig when you thought
I was gonna zag. Listen, we did wings before that time.
It was boneless versus bone in wings. If you could
(05:45):
even believe that, that was a debate. So I'm gonna
ask both of you real quick to weigh in on
that previous Food Court episode. Boneless or bone in wings?
Bone for sure, that's where the flavor comes from. All right,
all right, that was a quick emphatic bone and bone
bone in We can agree on that. I mean, boneless
wing is just stupid. It's a manufactured thing. It's not
(06:07):
even the thing, Like what do you that's like frankin Chicken.
I don't want anything to do with that. No, well,
listen as probably both would not be surprised. As the
creator of the Fua grab milkshake, I did rule in
favor of the boneless chicken wing, which is both setting
you up for a very very interesting debate today and
(06:28):
now I will be honest, and this is a good
point to sort of talk about how things happen in
the food court. One, it's my court that's important. But
to this battle is really just about your debate. This
is not about my personal opinions, which would perhaps be
bone and chicken. Of course, now today's fight, it's not
about the bones. It is about the flavor. Before we
(06:49):
get into all that, let's get to know each other
a little bit. Jennifer, you're based in Atlanta. What are
your favorite things in the Atlanta food scene right now?
And I want to say, like in the recovering food scene,
but I can only say that from California, Atlanta has
been recovering a little bit longer than California. What's going
on in the Atlanta food scene? I mean a lot.
There's a lot of people opening great chef driven restaurants,
(07:10):
like Jordan's Smelt, who is the former Summa of Cakes
and Ale just to open this beautiful French inspired book
and wine store slash restaurant with his wife in Buckhead,
Like things like a really perfect French omelet with creme
fresh and cavier on top of the great glass of
bield cards, someone like really, you know that what you
want to eat for dinner in the summer. And then
(07:32):
you know, just in terms of our international cuisine has
not stopped. We are I can't imagine how many restaurants
we have now. There must be like twenty Korean barbecue
is still huge. I mean a lot of people don't
know this about Atlanta, but it is our immigrant food
scene that is the best thing. Our Mexican, our Korean,
(07:53):
our Thaie, our Siswan can really get it all here.
And and it really never stopped because you know, these
people couldn't stop. This was there, This is there, This
is how they pay their bills. And the pivots and
pushing people, like I said on my podcast a lot
that the pandemic is really like a control all delete,
you know, for the food scene, and it also pushed
(08:15):
a lot of timelines forward. M Well Well Well said
now I have to put you on the spot as
a writer. We're talking about a wine book restaurant, which
blows my mind. You got a perfect French almond with
caviarn bill kart salmon. What do you read with that?
What's the pairing? Then? If you're the bookstore, what's the
what's the book pairing with with that dish? I mean, actually,
(08:37):
it's a really great place to go with friends. So
I wasn't reading. I do anticipate going back because they
are open for lunch, and I can definitely consider myself
going and reading so many books right now, I'm reading
Ashley Ford Somebody's Daughter, which was a big Oprah pick.
It's fantastic, shout out. It's it's an Ashley Ford book,
(08:58):
and we're enjoying an omelet with it. Mara, what about
you when you're not eating omelets and drinking champagne and
reading books? What are some of your strong opinions about
the Atlanta food scene right now? There's so much to
choose from in Atlanta, obviously, I mean, we're just such
a great food town. But the biggest observation I have
right now it is hard to get in all the
(09:18):
good restaurants you have to plan ahead because there's definite
desire for people to get out. Everybody wants to get
back into it. And some of the hot restaurants, like
if you look at something like you know, the Eater
or thirty eight or like the top rated restaurants, you
gotta plan ahead. One thing that is I scratched my
(09:39):
head a lot at the just over abundance of food halls.
There's just so many food all there's like a food
hall on every corner, and that's just can be good
and bad. And then I also think there's a there's
a lot more vegetarian and vegan. It's exciting to see,
like we've heard a lot about the Slutty Vegan and
(10:02):
she's just kind of opening locations all over town. I
see Jen's making a face and I love that and listen,
I like, I have mixed feelings about it, but I
love the hype about it. It may not be worth
standing in line for an hour about it, but the
fact that it's just blowing up all over town. People
(10:24):
seem to be very excited about that, and it's exciting
to see, you know, restaurants doing well. I'm I've talked
to a lot of restaurant tours who have killed it
in the pandemic. One in particular, there's a pizza place
in my neighborhood. Gents to Rooney Napoli and talk to
the owner and he has said, you know that business
has never been better as far as like the takeout game.
(10:45):
So I think that of Atlanta restaurants had their best
the best year ever. Wow. That that is. That is impressive.
And another trend is like I think high end restaurants
are doing more casual things, like the restaurant Aria is
introducing a burger, which seems like a super simple basic thing,
but it's been like off the chart successful and I
(11:07):
think we've we've all learned that like what what do
we want? We want comfort? Yeah, I think that that's
something that the pandemic right forced on restaurants that were
used to doing you know, super intimate plated food and
now they're putting a short rib in a to go
container and realizing that that's you know, more delicious than
(11:27):
a lobster salad and a martini glass. Sorry, that's a
shout out to Aria from twenty years ago on the
menu and it's still on the menu. That's me just
proving my Atlanta root. Yeah strong, They're Okay, Mara, listen,
you've you've brought a case to the food court today.
Can you lay it out for our audience in one
sentence or so? Lemon pepper wings scarlet, tangy, smoky, finger
(11:51):
licking perfection. Okay, So you are saying that lemon pepper
wings potentially the only way to eat wings. So good.
I mean, I'm not wanting to say no to a wing,
but if I had to choose, I'll listen. I'll give
it to Mara that they're in Atlanta institution. Lemon pepper
(12:12):
what who watches Atlanta on FFX? It's a hit Donald
Glover who doesn't love him? But I'm a classicist meeting.
I tend to get emotionally attached to the first time
I eat something. And the first time I had a
wing was a classic Buffalo wing, you know, like Buffalo,
New York. Like one of the first places I lived
(12:34):
when I moved to this country because I'm an immigrant,
was you know, right up in New York. And it
is just there's something special about it. Love lemon pepper,
but lemon pepper has a different salinity than Frank's red hot,
which we'll get into. Yes, okay, we'll look at that.
A podcast pro and a debate expert as well, pulling
(12:54):
back not revealing her argument right there. Okay, it's lemon
pepper wings first, traditional buffalo wings. By the way, this
this is just totally an aside one of the things
I love, and a mystery of Atlanta to me forever
has been. This is true, and we don't we we
can cover this, we don't. It's a mystery. Every once
in a while in Atlanta, you will and this maybe
(13:15):
other cities, but I lived in Atlanta and I've not
seen it in other cities. We both know. Yeah, Chicken
of Atlanta. The Instagram account Instagram account full on Instagram
handle called chicken Bones of Atlanta. There's also tumble Weaves
of Atlanta because sometimes you will find a weave on
the street in Atlanta too, but it is mostly wingbones,
(13:36):
spent wing bone. Every once in a while you can
find a scarted chicken wing bone or two in the
streets of Atlanta. That'd be a fun scavenger hunt. Actually,
it's it's it's especially it's especially challenging for those of
us who have dogs, because that is where you find
them most of the time. And so it's just and
and I gotta say, I mean, like you do see them.
(13:59):
It is really bizarre. You just you do see it. Well,
now you also see masks, masks, weaves, and chicken wings.
All right, there, there's the there's the trilogy right there.
Let's get into it. It's lemon pepper wings versus buffalo wings.
But before I hear your arguments here in my food court,
we love to have a quick trivia around before the
(14:21):
oral arguments. The winner of the trivia around gets to
decide the order in which you will present your case.
So let's see who is really good at some trivia.
All right, Jennifer, what sound will you be making to
buzz in today? Because I'm from Mexico, I'm gonna go
with a Mexican greet though the I love this, they're marrow.
(14:44):
What about you? You're going up against the Mexican That
was a horrible version of that. I'll just say what what? Okay?
Al right, here we go. Question one, lemon pepper is
the most popular wing sauce in what you s city? What?
All right? Mary Davis chiming in Atlanta. The answer is,
(15:06):
you would think that Atlanta would be the answer, because
this is such an Atlanta themed episode, and you would
be correct to think that Maria Davis. All right, that
was the easy one. Coming in with one point, there's
two questions remaining, Jennifer, You're still in the game. In
a cruel twist of irony, the number one wing sauce
at Buffalo Wild Wings is not Buffalo. What is the
(15:29):
most popular? Hint? It's sweet. It's a sweet flavor. Jennifer's
em Terry Aki was a good, good educated guest, but
it is not Tarayaki. We can still guess again if
you'd like, Oh, I can whoever wants to chime in again?
Is there a multiple choice? Well, first of all, you
(15:50):
have to do the sound barbecue, alright, The answer is
honey barbecue. This court is a reward ating the point
to Jennifer Zeman. She got the barbecue right. Buffalo isn't
even in the top three though, Jennifer, which is rounded
out by spicy garlic and parmesan garlic parmesan. There we
(16:15):
go shout out to Phogo to show that made me hungry,
by the way, Like, alright, so now it's all tied up.
Usually I have to sort of like, do some odd
napkin math to make question three even happen? Question three
it's multiple choice. The winner gets to determine who presents
first in the debate, which rapper brings up lemon pepper
wings and at least thirteen songs. This has been a
(16:40):
lot of a lot of a lot of work that
went into Crystal's work here to to figure out that
this rapper mentioned lemon pepper wings in thirteen songs. It's
honestly impressive. The multiple choice options are a Snoop dogg
be NICKI Minaj see Rick Ros Jennifer Zeman. Before we
even got through the multiple choice, is Rick Ross? Good job?
(17:03):
Good job? Honestly that was I didn't even finish the
multiple choice. You knew you're a Rick Ross man. I'd
like to rap music's same same, So there it is
Rick Ross thirteen times. He's so obsessed with lemon pepper
wings that he owns at least thirty wingstop locations. Did
you know that? That's why I knew that. I did
(17:23):
not know that. But that is impressive, alright. That means,
Jennifer Zeman, you have two points. Mary, you have one point.
Do you want to present first? Or second. Second. All right,
Jennifer Zeman will take the home team baseball approach. She
will present second. Marrow will go first, and before we
get into our arguments, let's take a quick break. Al Right,
(17:49):
we are back into recap in the food court today.
We have two food writers and podcasters and friends here
to throw down about chicken wings, the most popular wing
sauce in New York, Buffalo wings verse, the most popular
wing sauce in Georgia, Buffalo verse, lemon pepper wings. And
away we go. The way this works is that each
of you will have three minutes to state your case.
During this three minutes, lay it all out for me.
(18:12):
In those three minutes. Do not spend the first three
minutes talking about why your opponent is wrong. Save that
for the two minute rebuttal round that will go next.
Jennifer and Mara, are we all clear on the rules?
I'm ready? Okay, Mary, you will have your first three
minutes to let us know why lemon pepper wings rain supreme.
Your three minutes starts. Now, let's just start with lemon
(18:35):
pepper really originates here in Atlanta. Lemon pepper wing and
those of us who live in Atlanta, we like to
say this a lot. Atlanta influences everything and when it
comes to food, especially with bar food, and particularly here
in Atlanta, this is strip club food. Let's not get
(18:58):
it twisted. A lemon pepper wing really got its fire
from Magic City, the notorious strip club in Atlanta. People
will even break COVID protocols to get the lemon pepper wings.
You've heard about lemon pepper Lou Williams from the Clippers,
he went to Magic City because he had to have
(19:18):
that tasty tang of the lemon pepper wing. And you
can do so many things with the lemon pepper wing.
It can be smoked, it can be fried, it can
be wet, it can be a drumming, it can be
a flat You are going to be excited about this.
The lemon pepper wing has been featured on f X
show Atlanta. They even had to change the name of
(19:42):
the wing because of the show because that was a
combo of a buffalo and a lemon pepper, which is great.
But there is something about a lemon pepper wing that
is truly it just you just really want more. Now, Listen,
I got no problem with a buffalo wing. I like
a buffalo wing, but they can be kind of slimy.
(20:03):
You never know what you're really getting. They've been overused.
We've just seen it now. It's like in like Vegan
Burger's buffalo style buffalo sauce, buffalo wraps. It's kind of
been just like, you know, they've really done too much
it with it with a lemon pepper. Even though you
could put lemon pepper on fish or on vegetables, you
(20:26):
think lemon pepper, you go straight to the wings. Where
that's going to pop out on a menu to me
more than oh they have buffalo wings, so totally basic.
M Okay, there it is. Wrapping it up with some
time left on the clock, Mary Davis letting us know.
(20:46):
And first of all, props for lemon pepper Lou Williams.
I don't know if that's an official nickname now, but
I'm going for it. I think that that was maybe
the NBA quarantine story of the whole year, right, all right?
Is it? Is there a more iconic food? I mean
you people will go to people will go to great
lengths for that lemon pepper wing. And so therefore I
(21:08):
feel like I have strong standing in this court. I
have a lot of respect for Jennifer. Her food knowledge
and depth is it goes very very deep. But I
think in this case, you know, we're in we're in
one Richard, Okay, we're not, you know with the Buffalo
(21:29):
Wing where it's suddenly exciting, you know, I like to
be current. Alright, alright, mar we we we appreciate this,
and this court has allowed you to extend your time
by an extra two minutes. There so I will note
that the last forty five seconds of that will be
stricken from the records. Jennifer's even you now have three
minutes fun though, um so, I mean it's not really
(21:53):
like I mean, I wouldn't call it a product of
the eighties. The Buffalo Wing was actually created in sixty
four and upstate New York at a family establishment by
a mom who was trying to you know, feed her
kid and had some leftover stuff, which I love. I
love using what you have to me that really like
you know, takes it up. But like I said, I'm
a classic person. I don't believe that food, like classic
(22:15):
foods become stayed, Like are we going to just stop
eating cheeseburgers because those have been happening forever, Like, are
we gonna start like doing it on a different like
like a hot dog bun, because we've been doing it
on a hot amburg. I don't think so. But when
it comes to wings, there is the heat factor which
we failed to mention. And I like spice. Like I said,
(22:37):
I'm a child of two Jewish Mexicans from Mexico City,
born and raised I was. I was actually born in
Brazil and every night on the table growing up there
was some sort of salsa. The hotter the better, So
for me, I like a hot wing there. I like
a spicy wing. And the cool thing about buffalo sauce
(22:58):
is that you can take it get in so many
different directions with the heat level. It can be super
super hot, but it can be super super mild, and
there's just a lot of different facets of it. And
when Frank's red hot mixes with melted butter and and
it's it is tossed on a wing that is well done.
(23:19):
Because I don't know where you're eating wings, Mara, but
if they're slimy, I'm really sorry, because a good wing
could be super super crispy. It should be so crispy
that when the sauce is put on the wing, it
will stay crispy in transit to your home. And then furthermore,
I like a the sauce. You like at the sauce.
(23:40):
I like at the sauce. I like at the sauce.
I like a delck at the sauce off of my
I like it when I put the wing the way
the sauce looks. When I dip the wing in blue cheese,
because I'm I'm blue cheese. My kids eats ranch. It's painful.
They love ranch and everything. My daughter dips her pizza
and ranch. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go,
just like her playroom. I'm not going in there, you know,
(24:01):
But I love the way it looks. And then the
red ring happens, and then you do it in the
mix of the blue cheese and the buffalo, for me
is otherworldly. Add a little bit of the celery crunch,
and for me, it's just it's texture. And and also
with lemon pepper, because a lot of lemon pepper varieties
(24:22):
have a lot of added salt, the salinity is really intense.
I'm like a not bragging, but I'm a super taster.
I can really taste things like after my daughter and
quitting smoking, so as a chain smoker for like eighteen years,
my taste buds are so extreme that I can't even
eat flaming hot cheetohs anymore, which I used to really love.
It's really sad. But with lemon pepper, my palette gets
(24:46):
fatigued faster than it does with buffalo. So I will
take two of my daughter's lemon pepper wings, but I
always order buffalo hot extra. This cord chiming in on
Jennifer Zeman. It is a bad battle of sweets verse spicy.
It is a battle of the strip club dish versus
(25:07):
a distion vented by a mom at a at a bar.
Fair enough, fair enough, Okay, it is spice for sweet.
Lots of great visual came up there, Salinity comes up
a little bit. And I'm not bragging, but I'm a
super taster. Anytime someone says I'm not bragging, you are, Jennifer.
But that's okay, no worries. First round is in the books.
(25:29):
I have to say, it's pretty close. We have two
minutes now for the second round. Mary, you get to
let Jennifer know why buffalo wings are not that great.
Your two minutes starts now. Well, I have so much
great respect for Jennifer, and this is hard because we're friends,
but I just feel like the buffalo is so played out.
(25:50):
And I agree. I do love a well done wing,
and I always asked for it well done. It's got
to be crispy. But it's also the heat level. There's
so many other things that I could get with a
heat that packs a punch of buffalo. It just it
really sticks with you, and when it's not done right,
it can really be a miss. And it's it's yes,
(26:12):
I mean it's a classic. But the lemon pepper, I think,
is just coming into its own Richard. We are just
like in the golden age of the lemon pepper, where
people are starting to use this on more products. People
are discovering lemon pepper that that they may not have
(26:32):
been fascinated by this and so, and how can we
make this even more pop culture thing? That the fact
that it's on television shows and people want to experiment,
they want to come to Atlanta to try it, they
want to make it their own. I just think if
you want to be cool and you're ordering wings, you're
ordering lemon purple wings. All right, Mary Davis, I have
(26:57):
a couple of quick questions for you here. One. I mean,
you're on a trip to Atlanta, you've never been there before.
You're gonna go see the Atlanta Braves, You're gonna go
to the World of Coke, and you're saying you have
to go get a lemon pepper wing. It's that iconic
in the city. I would agree with that, yes, but
don't go to what did you say, the World of
Coke and the Brave Stadium. I'm throwing out some tourist destinations.
(27:18):
Those are things I would not recommend. Maybe the World
of Cokes, okay, but I would say go walk the
belt Line, go get some Jack's Pizza and wings. And
of course would you argue, Mara, I'm gonna I'm gonna
hand you this one here, that black pepper brings some
spice to the game. Oh yeah, you can. You know,
(27:38):
you can pepper the hell out of them. I mean
you could do a big black peppercorn. You can elevate
this and you know, go all in different directions with this.
You could do lemon. I mean, like like there's just
a lot with the flavor palette that you could do
and make them spicy. But I'm not all about the
(27:59):
spice when it comes to wings. Like you know that
show Hot Wings. I know people really love it. I mean,
people want to outdo each other with all the you know,
torture they can inflict on themselves. I'm not into that.
I'm not into torture. I'm into enjoyment. Now, Mary, you
don't might not know this, but there's a famous chef
in southern California who had a dish on his menu
(28:21):
right now that is black lime black pepper crusted fish
inspired by the lemon pepper wing. I'm that chef. See that.
Uh you know it's it's and you so, so it's
transcended the wing like this combination, right is led to
other great things. Jennifer watching out, I'm feeling good about this, Richard. Richard,
(28:43):
It's like coming and were coming around on me here
and I know they're my fellow buffalo wing lovers out
there that supports me, and that's all that matters. Right,
So Mary is letting us know that this is all
about pop culture, that the buffalo wing might be a
little basic. Jennifer Seman, what do you have to say
about that? Your two minutes starts. Now. Again, I don't
think there's anything wrong with basics. I mean, there's a
(29:04):
lot of classic foods that I love to eat. I
love a good slice of New York pizza. I don't
need that to be and reinvented. I'm very happy with
the way that is. But for me, wings are an
experiential thing, which is what I was talking about, And
I feel like you miss out on the contrast of
that cream nous from whatever you're dipping it in and
(29:24):
the tang nous. It's a different type of tang with
buffalo sauce versus lemon pepper. But again, like Mara said,
it's very trendy, you know, and like there's nothing wrong
with food trends. They're fun. My daughter and I make
that baked feta tomato pasta from TikTok. But like, in
terms of things that I crave, I'm gonna crave a
(29:45):
buffalo wing over a lemon pepper. I enjoy eating it more.
I find sometimes lemon pepper wings if they are not
wet enough, meaning the butter sauce, the butter lemon sauce
that they actually used to dress it. If they're not wet,
it off. They can really tear up your mouth, you know,
I'm in it can really tear up your mouth. And
especially if you're getting your wings extra crisp, not having
(30:06):
that liquid to soften, just those sharp edges can can
be the difference between a great wing and a wing
that's gonna you know, take you the dentist. All right,
there we go. That is the end of our debate
for now. Both competitors here in the court giving me
lots to think about the lemon pepper wing verse the
(30:27):
buffalo wing. Jennifer's eman basically letting us all know that
lemon pepper wings they can be dangerous. They can be
physically dangerous. That is a lot to think about. And
that's what I'm gonna do right now. I'm going to
retire to my chambers to think long and hard about
this verdict, and I'll be back right after this break
(30:55):
back the court today it is Jennifer'sman versus Mara Davis.
This has been a tough one. This is the battle
of chicken wing flavors, lemon pepper being represented by Mara
and traditional buffalo being represented by Jennifer. I had to
confer a little bit with Crystal on this one, and
I will have to strike from the arguments any of
(31:17):
the with blue cheese or with ranch or with celery.
This debate is not about the dipping of the wings. Uh.
If you can go back to Food Court episode two
where blue cheese and ranch dressing were debated and blue
cheese one no, sorry, ranch dressing one. M I remember
all of my verdicts, which proves again that I based
(31:39):
my decisions only on my not my personal opinions, but
on the debate that happens today. This is about the
sauce and the wings themselves. Lemon pepper verse Buffalo, Maara
Davis throwing it down, maybe inspired by the strip club
Lou Williams got thrown out. There, lots of pop culture
references FX Atlanta, Donald Glover, It's sweet, it's sweet. The
(32:01):
black pepper does bring some spice, but it's all about
pop culture, alright. This is the belt line of chicken wing.
This is not going to the tourist attraction, right. This
is like, you want the real deal, you go get
some lemon pepper wings. Jennifer's emen on the other hand, Oh,
this was created by a mom, not at a strip club. Everyone.
This is about heat, not sweet and then really getting
(32:23):
into sort of you know, hey, maybe lemon pepper wings
are too salty. Buffalo wings are an experience there. There's
a contrast their visual and the great rebuttal commentary that
lemon pepper wings are dangerous, which is debatable, but that's
what this is, and I have a verdict. I am
going to rule in favor of the buffalo chicken wing.
(32:47):
Ah oh, I thought I lost with that menu item.
Will never I will give you one. This has never happened.
But but Mary, I'm going to give you a quick
one or two sentence attempt at an appeal here. I
think that is so totally basic of you to go
(33:07):
with a buffalo chicken wing. Why don't you go to
Jimmy Buffett's Margariteaville and have a great dinner, enjoy yourself. Wow. Wow,
narrative is not taking the attempt at the appeal, instead
throwing the chicken wing bones into the air to be
found somewhere and walking out of court. A controversial verdict today.
(33:31):
Thank you so much for hanging out with us. That
was a that was a fun battle. I mean, you know,
I think the the the contrasting of the flavors I
think that's where it comes down to. I like it.
I am basic. You are right, Mara and you and
you also said it right from the top. These are
both delicious dishes. Can you can we not split two
dozen wings and get him half and half? Well that's
why lemon pepper what exists and lemon pepper mixed together. No,
(33:54):
you're breaking this down for people who are not aficionados.
Lemon pepper wet means you're combining the Yes, it was
actually the dish that Glover talked about on Atlanta. It
didn't exist at the time, so it used to be
called like the fester at JR Crickets, and so then
they changed it to lemon pepper wet because of the show. Okay,
real quick, judge me. I like to comb fee my
(34:15):
chicken wings first before frying. Yeah, yeah, suvi comfete anything. Yeah,
marriage is not talking to me. I am totally talking
to you. But you guys are getting like so like
deep cut like the CD wings. I'm like, I call
nerd nerds and I freaking ordered them, or I go
to a bar and I eat them and I want
(34:36):
my wings. I really like them smoked and lemon pepper,
so I like him at a barbecue. Yeah, I'll be
honest with you. I I want to go eat lemon
pepper wings right now. I have no interest in going
to eat some buffalo wings. I know, but like, see,
this is where it's kind of ridiculous. Richard, You're like, oh,
buffalo wings, Jennifer, you win. But yeah, when this is over,
(34:58):
I want lemon pepper wings. Yeah. Listen, it's and I
just did. It's it's about the debate, Mara. And all
I'm saying is our spinoff podcast Against My Better Judgment,
is launching in the fall. Thank you so much for
bringing your case to the food court. I am Richard Blaze.
I hope you both had fun. I hope everyone out
there had fun. For more, Jennifer check out her podcast
(35:18):
The Food That Binds and on Instagram and Twitter at
Jennifer zeeman z y m A n. And you can
find Mara on her Sounds Delicious podcast and on social
media at Mara Davis. Thank you so much for this
is a blast from the past, but we have to
do it again. Let's make sure it's not another five
years before we get together. Thank you so much, Richard.
Thanks awesome, and listen everyone. This was our season two finale,
(35:43):
but we'll be back this fall with more amazing guests
and even more ridiculous arguments. So stay tuned and you
can follow the show on Instagram at food Court pod
for fun discussions, some polls, and maybe even some trolling arguments.
Food Court is a production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Richard Blaze. My producer is Krystal Bakmahi. Food Court was
created by our executive producer, Christopher Hasciotis. The rest of
(36:06):
my food Court clerks are Jonathan Dressler, David Wasserman, and
Jasmine Blaze. The theme song is by Jason Ne Smith.
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Creamy, Creamy food Court. Food Court, food Court with rich Blaze?
Are you in the food Court? Court with rich Blase?
(00:25):
Food Welcome to the food Court. A production of I
Heart Radio. Food Court is now in session. We are back.
I am your host and judge Richard Blaze, And this
is the podcast where I get to tell you if
(00:45):
you're right or wrong about your weird food opinions. And
let me tell you, I have gotten really really good
at it. I could tell people they're right or wrong
all day. It is just a special gift. You are
welcome and joining us in the court. We have two
stalwarts of the Atlanta food scene who recently launched their
own food podcast, We All go way back. The first
(01:08):
is the host of The Food That Binds. It's Jennifer Zeman.
Thanks for having me. Is going on? Jennifer? What are you?
What are you up to? It's a it's a little
people can't see us because this is just audio, but
it does look a little, a little dark and cavernous.
Over there. I'm in a room hiding from my children
where the acoustics are the best, and it is a
bit dark. But I I've just been doing my thing.
(01:30):
I'm still writing for Atlanta magazine Eater bon Apetite Kitchen,
and then I started this podcast kind of in the
middle of the pandemic because I wasn't doing restaurant criticism
anymore and it was an opportunity to talk to chefs
about their origin stories or superhero origin stories. Oh, I
love that. I love a good origin story. Yeah, as
(01:52):
a critic, right, and like it's we've always sort of
we've had many critics on this on this podcast. Like
the question is always like is that sort of something
that's fading away? But as you mentioned, during the pandemic,
you can't critique anything right now. And then you also
don't want to be a hater because people are suffering. Yes,
I would rather lift people up today, but I don't
know if I won't go back to criticism. I feel
(02:14):
like Sasha was just on my pod, and you know,
we both still think that it's a very useful service. Yes, no,
it is. It keeps people cooking good food and sort
of knowing they need to keep cooking good food. Right.
So yeah, I've always been even though I've I've sometimes disagreed,
even probably with your own personal critique. I'm sure I
(02:34):
comment I do appreciate. I don't I don't quite remember, Okay,
I remember everywhere. But it's good to see you, and
and thank you for hiding from your children and escaping,
escaping to the food court and here to tell Jennifer
she's very, very wrong. It is the host of Sounds Delicious.
It's Maria Davis. Hi Richard. It's so good to see you.
(02:54):
I mean, it's so funny to see you because I
remember when you used to come on my radio show
back in the day, when you were making Fua Graw
milkshakes and you were the toast of the town in Atlanta,
and everybody's like his this rigid place, and then you
open your own restaurant like you were like the the thing.
(03:15):
And look at you now like TV host, podcaster, author.
I mean, I feel like I knew you when you know,
like I just remember you. It's so so now the
only way I can even get close to you is
on a zoom call. This is is a weird world.
I was gonna say, from from toast of the town
(03:36):
with Fua Graw milkshakes to you know, sitting in my
own personal kitchen podcasting, we've all we've all come a
long way. Haven't we now, Mavera, I have to, like,
I have one question that always when when when I'm
chatting with you, and it just I was reminded right there,
of course in the moment, like do you have to
work on this golden voice that you have? Like you
have just this golden voice? Is it something that you
(03:57):
that you practice. You're so sweet to say that and
thank you very much. I am a broadcaster, but because
the radio business basically isn't really a thing so much anymore,
I'm doing more podcasting. But I actually had a lisp
growing up, and I got rid of I was in
(04:18):
speech therapy early early on, and I had to do
things to correct my accents in speaking to like I
would say like I grew up in South Florida, which
is basically New York, and I would say things like
one eight hundred to to to and so I had
(04:39):
to learn how to say things like hundred or w
or in the South they say what why? So I
do work on things like that, and I am definitely
aware of that when I'm in a broadcasting setting. But
podcasting is so much freer, and I think if you're
(04:59):
too broadcast hasty, I don't know it doesn't always work,
but yeah, I work on my voice. Yeah. I mean
there's been a lot of smoky drinking nights that have
gotten it this low. So in that case, yes, therapy works.
Well that's the I was gonna say. That's that's good
practice right there, And I'm here for the first iteration
of By the way, yes, yes, I still don't do
(05:24):
that anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah no, but I but
I think I feel like we gotta we gotta bring
that back. All right. Listen, now I've heard the two
of you have a beef about chicken. That's right. You
see what I did there. I zig when you thought
I was gonna zag. Listen, we did wings before that time.
It was boneless versus bone in wings. If you could
(05:45):
even believe that, that was a debate. So I'm gonna
ask both of you real quick to weigh in on
that previous Food Court episode. Boneless or bone in wings?
Bone for sure, that's where the flavor comes from. All right,
all right, that was a quick emphatic bone and bone
bone in We can agree on that. I mean, boneless
wing is just stupid. It's a manufactured thing. It's not
(06:07):
even the thing, Like what do you that's like frankin Chicken.
I don't want anything to do with that. No, well,
listen as probably both would not be surprised. As the
creator of the Fua grab milkshake, I did rule in
favor of the boneless chicken wing, which is both setting
you up for a very very interesting debate today and
(06:28):
now I will be honest, and this is a good
point to sort of talk about how things happen in
the food court. One, it's my court that's important. But
to this battle is really just about your debate. This
is not about my personal opinions, which would perhaps be
bone and chicken. Of course, now today's fight, it's not
about the bones. It is about the flavor. Before we
(06:49):
get into all that, let's get to know each other
a little bit. Jennifer, you're based in Atlanta. What are
your favorite things in the Atlanta food scene right now?
And I want to say, like in the recovering food scene,
but I can only say that from California, Atlanta has
been recovering a little bit longer than California. What's going
on in the Atlanta food scene? I mean a lot.
There's a lot of people opening great chef driven restaurants,
(07:10):
like Jordan's Smelt, who is the former Summa of Cakes
and Ale just to open this beautiful French inspired book
and wine store slash restaurant with his wife in Buckhead,
Like things like a really perfect French omelet with creme
fresh and cavier on top of the great glass of
bield cards, someone like really, you know that what you
want to eat for dinner in the summer. And then
(07:32):
you know, just in terms of our international cuisine has
not stopped. We are I can't imagine how many restaurants
we have now. There must be like twenty Korean barbecue
is still huge. I mean a lot of people don't
know this about Atlanta, but it is our immigrant food
scene that is the best thing. Our Mexican, our Korean,
(07:53):
our Thaie, our Siswan can really get it all here.
And and it really never stopped because you know, these
people couldn't stop. This was there, This is there, This
is how they pay their bills. And the pivots and
pushing people, like I said on my podcast a lot
that the pandemic is really like a control all delete,
you know, for the food scene, and it also pushed
(08:15):
a lot of timelines forward. M Well Well Well said
now I have to put you on the spot as
a writer. We're talking about a wine book restaurant, which
blows my mind. You got a perfect French almond with
caviarn bill kart salmon. What do you read with that?
What's the pairing? Then? If you're the bookstore, what's the
what's the book pairing with with that dish? I mean, actually,
(08:37):
it's a really great place to go with friends. So
I wasn't reading. I do anticipate going back because they
are open for lunch, and I can definitely consider myself
going and reading so many books right now, I'm reading
Ashley Ford Somebody's Daughter, which was a big Oprah pick.
It's fantastic, shout out. It's it's an Ashley Ford book,
(08:58):
and we're enjoying an omelet with it. Mara, what about
you when you're not eating omelets and drinking champagne and
reading books? What are some of your strong opinions about
the Atlanta food scene right now? There's so much to
choose from in Atlanta, obviously, I mean, we're just such
a great food town. But the biggest observation I have
right now it is hard to get in all the
(09:18):
good restaurants you have to plan ahead because there's definite
desire for people to get out. Everybody wants to get
back into it. And some of the hot restaurants, like
if you look at something like you know, the Eater
or thirty eight or like the top rated restaurants, you
gotta plan ahead. One thing that is I scratched my
(09:39):
head a lot at the just over abundance of food halls.
There's just so many food all there's like a food
hall on every corner, and that's just can be good
and bad. And then I also think there's a there's
a lot more vegetarian and vegan. It's exciting to see,
like we've heard a lot about the Slutty Vegan and
(10:02):
she's just kind of opening locations all over town. I
see Jen's making a face and I love that and listen,
I like, I have mixed feelings about it, but I
love the hype about it. It may not be worth
standing in line for an hour about it, but the
fact that it's just blowing up all over town. People
(10:24):
seem to be very excited about that, and it's exciting
to see, you know, restaurants doing well. I'm I've talked
to a lot of restaurant tours who have killed it
in the pandemic. One in particular, there's a pizza place
in my neighborhood. Gents to Rooney Napoli and talk to
the owner and he has said, you know that business
has never been better as far as like the takeout game.
(10:45):
So I think that of Atlanta restaurants had their best
the best year ever. Wow. That that is. That is impressive.
And another trend is like I think high end restaurants
are doing more casual things, like the restaurant Aria is
introducing a burger, which seems like a super simple basic thing,
but it's been like off the chart successful and I
(11:07):
think we've we've all learned that like what what do
we want? We want comfort? Yeah, I think that that's
something that the pandemic right forced on restaurants that were
used to doing you know, super intimate plated food and
now they're putting a short rib in a to go
container and realizing that that's you know, more delicious than
(11:27):
a lobster salad and a martini glass. Sorry, that's a
shout out to Aria from twenty years ago on the
menu and it's still on the menu. That's me just
proving my Atlanta root. Yeah strong, They're Okay, Mara, listen,
you've you've brought a case to the food court today.
Can you lay it out for our audience in one
sentence or so? Lemon pepper wings scarlet, tangy, smoky, finger
(11:51):
licking perfection. Okay, So you are saying that lemon pepper
wings potentially the only way to eat wings. So good.
I mean, I'm not wanting to say no to a wing,
but if I had to choose, I'll listen. I'll give
it to Mara that they're in Atlanta institution. Lemon pepper
(12:12):
what who watches Atlanta on FFX? It's a hit Donald
Glover who doesn't love him? But I'm a classicist meeting.
I tend to get emotionally attached to the first time
I eat something. And the first time I had a
wing was a classic Buffalo wing, you know, like Buffalo,
New York. Like one of the first places I lived
(12:34):
when I moved to this country because I'm an immigrant,
was you know, right up in New York. And it
is just there's something special about it. Love lemon pepper,
but lemon pepper has a different salinity than Frank's red hot,
which we'll get into. Yes, okay, we'll look at that.
A podcast pro and a debate expert as well, pulling
(12:54):
back not revealing her argument right there. Okay, it's lemon
pepper wings first, traditional buffalo wings. By the way, this
this is just totally an aside one of the things
I love, and a mystery of Atlanta to me forever
has been. This is true, and we don't we we
can cover this, we don't. It's a mystery. Every once
in a while in Atlanta, you will and this maybe
(13:15):
other cities, but I lived in Atlanta and I've not
seen it in other cities. We both know. Yeah, Chicken
of Atlanta. The Instagram account Instagram account full on Instagram
handle called chicken Bones of Atlanta. There's also tumble Weaves
of Atlanta because sometimes you will find a weave on
the street in Atlanta too, but it is mostly wingbones,
(13:36):
spent wing bone. Every once in a while you can
find a scarted chicken wing bone or two in the
streets of Atlanta. That'd be a fun scavenger hunt. Actually,
it's it's it's especially it's especially challenging for those of
us who have dogs, because that is where you find
them most of the time. And so it's just and
and I gotta say, I mean, like you do see them.
(13:59):
It is really bizarre. You just you do see it. Well,
now you also see masks, masks, weaves, and chicken wings.
All right, there, there's the there's the trilogy right there.
Let's get into it. It's lemon pepper wings versus buffalo wings.
But before I hear your arguments here in my food court,
we love to have a quick trivia around before the
(14:21):
oral arguments. The winner of the trivia around gets to
decide the order in which you will present your case.
So let's see who is really good at some trivia.
All right, Jennifer, what sound will you be making to
buzz in today? Because I'm from Mexico, I'm gonna go
with a Mexican greet though the I love this, they're marrow.
(14:44):
What about you? You're going up against the Mexican That
was a horrible version of that. I'll just say what what? Okay?
Al right, here we go. Question one, lemon pepper is
the most popular wing sauce in what you s city? What?
All right? Mary Davis chiming in Atlanta. The answer is,
(15:06):
you would think that Atlanta would be the answer, because
this is such an Atlanta themed episode, and you would
be correct to think that Maria Davis. All right, that
was the easy one. Coming in with one point, there's
two questions remaining, Jennifer, You're still in the game. In
a cruel twist of irony, the number one wing sauce
at Buffalo Wild Wings is not Buffalo. What is the
(15:29):
most popular? Hint? It's sweet. It's a sweet flavor. Jennifer's
em Terry Aki was a good, good educated guest, but
it is not Tarayaki. We can still guess again if
you'd like, Oh, I can whoever wants to chime in again?
Is there a multiple choice? Well, first of all, you
(15:50):
have to do the sound barbecue, alright, The answer is
honey barbecue. This court is a reward ating the point
to Jennifer Zeman. She got the barbecue right. Buffalo isn't
even in the top three though, Jennifer, which is rounded
out by spicy garlic and parmesan garlic parmesan. There we
(16:15):
go shout out to Phogo to show that made me hungry,
by the way, Like, alright, so now it's all tied up.
Usually I have to sort of like, do some odd
napkin math to make question three even happen? Question three
it's multiple choice. The winner gets to determine who presents
first in the debate, which rapper brings up lemon pepper
wings and at least thirteen songs. This has been a
(16:40):
lot of a lot of a lot of work that
went into Crystal's work here to to figure out that
this rapper mentioned lemon pepper wings in thirteen songs. It's
honestly impressive. The multiple choice options are a Snoop dogg
be NICKI Minaj see Rick Ros Jennifer Zeman. Before we
even got through the multiple choice, is Rick Ross? Good job?
(17:03):
Good job? Honestly that was I didn't even finish the
multiple choice. You knew you're a Rick Ross man. I'd
like to rap music's same same, So there it is
Rick Ross thirteen times. He's so obsessed with lemon pepper
wings that he owns at least thirty wingstop locations. Did
you know that? That's why I knew that. I did
(17:23):
not know that. But that is impressive, alright. That means,
Jennifer Zeman, you have two points. Mary, you have one point.
Do you want to present first? Or second. Second. All right,
Jennifer Zeman will take the home team baseball approach. She
will present second. Marrow will go first, and before we
get into our arguments, let's take a quick break. Al Right,
(17:49):
we are back into recap in the food court today.
We have two food writers and podcasters and friends here
to throw down about chicken wings, the most popular wing
sauce in New York, Buffalo wings verse, the most popular
wing sauce in Georgia, Buffalo verse, lemon pepper wings. And
away we go. The way this works is that each
of you will have three minutes to state your case.
During this three minutes, lay it all out for me.
(18:12):
In those three minutes. Do not spend the first three
minutes talking about why your opponent is wrong. Save that
for the two minute rebuttal round that will go next.
Jennifer and Mara, are we all clear on the rules?
I'm ready? Okay, Mary, you will have your first three
minutes to let us know why lemon pepper wings rain supreme.
Your three minutes starts. Now, let's just start with lemon
(18:35):
pepper really originates here in Atlanta. Lemon pepper wing and
those of us who live in Atlanta, we like to
say this a lot. Atlanta influences everything and when it
comes to food, especially with bar food, and particularly here
in Atlanta, this is strip club food. Let's not get
(18:58):
it twisted. A lemon pepper wing really got its fire
from Magic City, the notorious strip club in Atlanta. People
will even break COVID protocols to get the lemon pepper wings.
You've heard about lemon pepper Lou Williams from the Clippers,
he went to Magic City because he had to have
(19:18):
that tasty tang of the lemon pepper wing. And you
can do so many things with the lemon pepper wing.
It can be smoked, it can be fried, it can
be wet, it can be a drumming, it can be
a flat You are going to be excited about this.
The lemon pepper wing has been featured on f X
show Atlanta. They even had to change the name of
(19:42):
the wing because of the show because that was a
combo of a buffalo and a lemon pepper, which is great.
But there is something about a lemon pepper wing that
is truly it just you just really want more. Now, Listen,
I got no problem with a buffalo wing. I like
a buffalo wing, but they can be kind of slimy.
(20:03):
You never know what you're really getting. They've been overused.
We've just seen it now. It's like in like Vegan
Burger's buffalo style buffalo sauce, buffalo wraps. It's kind of
been just like, you know, they've really done too much
it with it with a lemon pepper. Even though you
could put lemon pepper on fish or on vegetables, you
(20:26):
think lemon pepper, you go straight to the wings. Where
that's going to pop out on a menu to me
more than oh they have buffalo wings, so totally basic.
M Okay, there it is. Wrapping it up with some
time left on the clock, Mary Davis letting us know.
(20:46):
And first of all, props for lemon pepper Lou Williams.
I don't know if that's an official nickname now, but
I'm going for it. I think that that was maybe
the NBA quarantine story of the whole year, right, all right?
Is it? Is there a more iconic food? I mean
you people will go to people will go to great
lengths for that lemon pepper wing. And so therefore I
(21:08):
feel like I have strong standing in this court. I
have a lot of respect for Jennifer. Her food knowledge
and depth is it goes very very deep. But I
think in this case, you know, we're in we're in
one Richard, Okay, we're not, you know with the Buffalo
(21:29):
Wing where it's suddenly exciting, you know, I like to
be current. Alright, alright, mar we we we appreciate this,
and this court has allowed you to extend your time
by an extra two minutes. There so I will note
that the last forty five seconds of that will be
stricken from the records. Jennifer's even you now have three
minutes fun though, um so, I mean it's not really
(21:53):
like I mean, I wouldn't call it a product of
the eighties. The Buffalo Wing was actually created in sixty
four and upstate New York at a family establishment by
a mom who was trying to you know, feed her
kid and had some leftover stuff, which I love. I
love using what you have to me that really like
you know, takes it up. But like I said, I'm
a classic person. I don't believe that food, like classic
(22:15):
foods become stayed, Like are we going to just stop
eating cheeseburgers because those have been happening forever, Like, are
we gonna start like doing it on a different like
like a hot dog bun, because we've been doing it
on a hot amburg. I don't think so. But when
it comes to wings, there is the heat factor which
we failed to mention. And I like spice. Like I said,
(22:37):
I'm a child of two Jewish Mexicans from Mexico City,
born and raised I was. I was actually born in
Brazil and every night on the table growing up there
was some sort of salsa. The hotter the better, So
for me, I like a hot wing there. I like
a spicy wing. And the cool thing about buffalo sauce
(22:58):
is that you can take it get in so many
different directions with the heat level. It can be super
super hot, but it can be super super mild, and
there's just a lot of different facets of it. And
when Frank's red hot mixes with melted butter and and
it's it is tossed on a wing that is well done.
(23:19):
Because I don't know where you're eating wings, Mara, but
if they're slimy, I'm really sorry, because a good wing
could be super super crispy. It should be so crispy
that when the sauce is put on the wing, it
will stay crispy in transit to your home. And then furthermore,
I like a the sauce. You like at the sauce.
(23:40):
I like at the sauce. I like at the sauce.
I like a delck at the sauce off of my
I like it when I put the wing the way
the sauce looks. When I dip the wing in blue cheese,
because I'm I'm blue cheese. My kids eats ranch. It's painful.
They love ranch and everything. My daughter dips her pizza
and ranch. I'm letting it go. I'm letting it go,
just like her playroom. I'm not going in there, you know,
(24:01):
But I love the way it looks. And then the
red ring happens, and then you do it in the
mix of the blue cheese and the buffalo, for me
is otherworldly. Add a little bit of the celery crunch,
and for me, it's just it's texture. And and also
with lemon pepper, because a lot of lemon pepper varieties
(24:22):
have a lot of added salt, the salinity is really intense.
I'm like a not bragging, but I'm a super taster.
I can really taste things like after my daughter and
quitting smoking, so as a chain smoker for like eighteen years,
my taste buds are so extreme that I can't even
eat flaming hot cheetohs anymore, which I used to really love.
It's really sad. But with lemon pepper, my palette gets
(24:46):
fatigued faster than it does with buffalo. So I will
take two of my daughter's lemon pepper wings, but I
always order buffalo hot extra. This cord chiming in on
Jennifer Zeman. It is a bad battle of sweets verse spicy.
It is a battle of the strip club dish versus
(25:07):
a distion vented by a mom at a at a bar.
Fair enough, fair enough, Okay, it is spice for sweet.
Lots of great visual came up there, Salinity comes up
a little bit. And I'm not bragging, but I'm a
super taster. Anytime someone says I'm not bragging, you are, Jennifer.
But that's okay, no worries. First round is in the books.
(25:29):
I have to say, it's pretty close. We have two
minutes now for the second round. Mary, you get to
let Jennifer know why buffalo wings are not that great.
Your two minutes starts now. Well, I have so much
great respect for Jennifer, and this is hard because we're friends,
but I just feel like the buffalo is so played out.
(25:50):
And I agree. I do love a well done wing,
and I always asked for it well done. It's got
to be crispy. But it's also the heat level. There's
so many other things that I could get with a
heat that packs a punch of buffalo. It just it
really sticks with you, and when it's not done right,
it can really be a miss. And it's it's yes,
(26:12):
I mean it's a classic. But the lemon pepper, I think,
is just coming into its own Richard. We are just
like in the golden age of the lemon pepper, where
people are starting to use this on more products. People
are discovering lemon pepper that that they may not have
(26:32):
been fascinated by this and so, and how can we
make this even more pop culture thing? That the fact
that it's on television shows and people want to experiment,
they want to come to Atlanta to try it, they
want to make it their own. I just think if
you want to be cool and you're ordering wings, you're
ordering lemon purple wings. All right, Mary Davis, I have
(26:57):
a couple of quick questions for you here. One. I mean,
you're on a trip to Atlanta, you've never been there before.
You're gonna go see the Atlanta Braves, You're gonna go
to the World of Coke, and you're saying you have
to go get a lemon pepper wing. It's that iconic
in the city. I would agree with that, yes, but
don't go to what did you say, the World of
Coke and the Brave Stadium. I'm throwing out some tourist destinations.
(27:18):
Those are things I would not recommend. Maybe the World
of Cokes, okay, but I would say go walk the
belt Line, go get some Jack's Pizza and wings. And
of course would you argue, Mara, I'm gonna I'm gonna
hand you this one here, that black pepper brings some
spice to the game. Oh yeah, you can. You know,
(27:38):
you can pepper the hell out of them. I mean
you could do a big black peppercorn. You can elevate
this and you know, go all in different directions with this.
You could do lemon. I mean, like like there's just
a lot with the flavor palette that you could do
and make them spicy. But I'm not all about the
(27:59):
spice when it comes to wings. Like you know that
show Hot Wings. I know people really love it. I mean,
people want to outdo each other with all the you know,
torture they can inflict on themselves. I'm not into that.
I'm not into torture. I'm into enjoyment. Now, Mary, you
don't might not know this, but there's a famous chef
in southern California who had a dish on his menu
(28:21):
right now that is black lime black pepper crusted fish
inspired by the lemon pepper wing. I'm that chef. See that.
Uh you know it's it's and you so, so it's
transcended the wing like this combination, right is led to
other great things. Jennifer watching out, I'm feeling good about this, Richard. Richard,
(28:43):
It's like coming and were coming around on me here
and I know they're my fellow buffalo wing lovers out
there that supports me, and that's all that matters. Right,
So Mary is letting us know that this is all
about pop culture, that the buffalo wing might be a
little basic. Jennifer Seman, what do you have to say
about that? Your two minutes starts. Now. Again, I don't
think there's anything wrong with basics. I mean, there's a
(29:04):
lot of classic foods that I love to eat. I
love a good slice of New York pizza. I don't
need that to be and reinvented. I'm very happy with
the way that is. But for me, wings are an
experiential thing, which is what I was talking about, And
I feel like you miss out on the contrast of
that cream nous from whatever you're dipping it in and
(29:24):
the tang nous. It's a different type of tang with
buffalo sauce versus lemon pepper. But again, like Mara said,
it's very trendy, you know, and like there's nothing wrong
with food trends. They're fun. My daughter and I make
that baked feta tomato pasta from TikTok. But like, in
terms of things that I crave, I'm gonna crave a
(29:45):
buffalo wing over a lemon pepper. I enjoy eating it more.
I find sometimes lemon pepper wings if they are not
wet enough, meaning the butter sauce, the butter lemon sauce
that they actually used to dress it. If they're not wet,
it off. They can really tear up your mouth, you know,
I'm in it can really tear up your mouth. And
especially if you're getting your wings extra crisp, not having
(30:06):
that liquid to soften, just those sharp edges can can
be the difference between a great wing and a wing
that's gonna you know, take you the dentist. All right,
there we go. That is the end of our debate
for now. Both competitors here in the court giving me
lots to think about the lemon pepper wing verse the
(30:27):
buffalo wing. Jennifer's eman basically letting us all know that
lemon pepper wings they can be dangerous. They can be
physically dangerous. That is a lot to think about. And
that's what I'm gonna do right now. I'm going to
retire to my chambers to think long and hard about
this verdict, and I'll be back right after this break
(30:55):
back the court today it is Jennifer'sman versus Mara Davis.
This has been a tough one. This is the battle
of chicken wing flavors, lemon pepper being represented by Mara
and traditional buffalo being represented by Jennifer. I had to
confer a little bit with Crystal on this one, and
I will have to strike from the arguments any of
(31:17):
the with blue cheese or with ranch or with celery.
This debate is not about the dipping of the wings. Uh.
If you can go back to Food Court episode two
where blue cheese and ranch dressing were debated and blue
cheese one no, sorry, ranch dressing one. M I remember
all of my verdicts, which proves again that I based
(31:39):
my decisions only on my not my personal opinions, but
on the debate that happens today. This is about the
sauce and the wings themselves. Lemon pepper verse Buffalo, Maara
Davis throwing it down, maybe inspired by the strip club
Lou Williams got thrown out. There, lots of pop culture
references FX Atlanta, Donald Glover, It's sweet, it's sweet. The
(32:01):
black pepper does bring some spice, but it's all about
pop culture, alright. This is the belt line of chicken wing.
This is not going to the tourist attraction, right. This
is like, you want the real deal, you go get
some lemon pepper wings. Jennifer's emen on the other hand, Oh,
this was created by a mom, not at a strip club. Everyone.
This is about heat, not sweet and then really getting
(32:23):
into sort of you know, hey, maybe lemon pepper wings
are too salty. Buffalo wings are an experience there. There's
a contrast their visual and the great rebuttal commentary that
lemon pepper wings are dangerous, which is debatable, but that's
what this is, and I have a verdict. I am
going to rule in favor of the buffalo chicken wing.
(32:47):
Ah oh, I thought I lost with that menu item.
Will never I will give you one. This has never happened.
But but Mary, I'm going to give you a quick
one or two sentence attempt at an appeal here. I
think that is so totally basic of you to go
(33:07):
with a buffalo chicken wing. Why don't you go to
Jimmy Buffett's Margariteaville and have a great dinner, enjoy yourself. Wow. Wow,
narrative is not taking the attempt at the appeal, instead
throwing the chicken wing bones into the air to be
found somewhere and walking out of court. A controversial verdict today.
(33:31):
Thank you so much for hanging out with us. That
was a that was a fun battle. I mean, you know,
I think the the the contrasting of the flavors I
think that's where it comes down to. I like it.
I am basic. You are right, Mara and you and
you also said it right from the top. These are
both delicious dishes. Can you can we not split two
dozen wings and get him half and half? Well that's
why lemon pepper what exists and lemon pepper mixed together. No,
(33:54):
you're breaking this down for people who are not aficionados.
Lemon pepper wet means you're combining the Yes, it was
actually the dish that Glover talked about on Atlanta. It
didn't exist at the time, so it used to be
called like the fester at JR Crickets, and so then
they changed it to lemon pepper wet because of the show. Okay,
real quick, judge me. I like to comb fee my
(34:15):
chicken wings first before frying. Yeah, yeah, suvi comfete anything. Yeah,
marriage is not talking to me. I am totally talking
to you. But you guys are getting like so like
deep cut like the CD wings. I'm like, I call
nerd nerds and I freaking ordered them, or I go
to a bar and I eat them and I want
(34:36):
my wings. I really like them smoked and lemon pepper,
so I like him at a barbecue. Yeah, I'll be
honest with you. I I want to go eat lemon
pepper wings right now. I have no interest in going
to eat some buffalo wings. I know, but like, see,
this is where it's kind of ridiculous. Richard, You're like, oh,
buffalo wings, Jennifer, you win. But yeah, when this is over,
(34:58):
I want lemon pepper wings. Yeah. Listen, it's and I
just did. It's it's about the debate, Mara. And all
I'm saying is our spinoff podcast Against My Better Judgment,
is launching in the fall. Thank you so much for
bringing your case to the food court. I am Richard Blaze.
I hope you both had fun. I hope everyone out
there had fun. For more, Jennifer check out her podcast
(35:18):
The Food That Binds and on Instagram and Twitter at
Jennifer zeeman z y m A n. And you can
find Mara on her Sounds Delicious podcast and on social
media at Mara Davis. Thank you so much for this
is a blast from the past, but we have to
do it again. Let's make sure it's not another five
years before we get together. Thank you so much, Richard.
Thanks awesome, and listen everyone. This was our season two finale,
(35:43):
but we'll be back this fall with more amazing guests
and even more ridiculous arguments. So stay tuned and you
can follow the show on Instagram at food Court pod
for fun discussions, some polls, and maybe even some trolling arguments.
Food Court is a production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Richard Blaze. My producer is Krystal Bakmahi. Food Court was
created by our executive producer, Christopher Hasciotis. The rest of
(36:06):
my food Court clerks are Jonathan Dressler, David Wasserman, and
Jasmine Blaze. The theme song is by Jason Ne Smith.
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.