July 7, 2022 • 34 mins
Today’s administrators, educators and staff have a long list of job requirements when it comes to educating our youth, but how do we ensure that students first have access to quality education?
In this episode, we sit with Eli Capilouto, President of the University of Kentucky and Gordon Matchett, CEO of Take a Hike Foundation, as they explain how they are tackling a variety of issues that plague education access in their institutions. Both share how focusing on the needs of educators and creating safe spaces that are inclusive of all students is the key to ensuring a bright - and safe - future for everyone.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Well, hello there, and welcome back today. I want to
talk about something that's both very important and very top
of mind right now. Education. I know we all know
that cliche saying it takes a village to raise a child,
But what happens when the village and charge of raising
the kid is flawed or even broken. Nobody could disagree
(00:29):
with the fact that teachers and staff today have it
really tough. They're expected to educate students, a monumental task
on its own, get them ready for college, make sure
they've got transferable skills for that first job. But they're
also asked to do more under immense pressure, virtual learning
(00:50):
during a pandemic, remotely supporting over twenty kids adequately. Add
to that laundry list the idea that education ers now
have the job of keeping their students safe from violence.
It's unfortunate that the drills of my youth, where we
hit under a desk or just walked onto the playground
(01:12):
and lined up according to height, that that safety measure
is nowhere near enough today. Now, as you know by now,
this show is all about leveraging our collective power to
influence change. Our two guests today, they are testaments to
this both are well aware of the odds, and yet
they choose to go against them to build safe spaces
(01:34):
for students to achieve their goals, regardless of where they
come from. Joining us today is Eli Cappeludo, President of
the University of Kentucky. He's the university's twelfth president and
has led a two point eight billion dollar transformation of
the campus that's aimed at enriching the living learning experience
of his students by strengthening the research infrastructure. He's a
(01:57):
huge believer in the university's capacity to teach, heal, and
serve through partnerships with various philanthropic and private partners, and
much like President Kappeluto, our second guest, Gordon Matchett, is
focused on fostering spaces where students feel safe enough to
reach their best potential. He's the CEO of Take a Hike,
(02:18):
an organization that partners with public school districts to engage
vulnerable youth and mental health and well being programs in
alternate education classrooms in Canada. Two great guests, One big topic.
That's how we do it here less divan Welcome class.
(02:43):
Good to have you here. I want to start with
what you see as the key to a successful educational
experience for a student, President Cappoluto, what are the key
ingredients here? Well, that you maximize your experience by understanding
(03:04):
at a deeper level who you are, and that you
find your meaning and purpose. We certainly know those expressions
about being able to bear any burden if your hy
is sufficient. I think college is a wonderful time to
explore yourself and opportunities to have that life of meaning
(03:26):
and purpose. How you may treat a community. I want
to follow up on that because so much of the
trend that I perceive an education is about individual focus, personalization, customization,
and being your best self, individual self as opposed to
collective self. So can you add a little flavor to
(03:48):
what the diagnosis of a community? What does that practically
look like and how does that affect how you educate
your students. So I think one understands that in tackling
us area is problem, there's not just one factor. So
what are these determinants of a healthy community? Education, safe water,
(04:10):
safe streets, good nutrition, mental well being. There is not
one lever to pool. I like to say that there
are micro interventions to have a macro effect. So understanding
the complexity of a community. Today, we are one of
(04:30):
eight universities in the country that has a RAID on
a contiguous campus. The depth and breadth of disciplines you
need to answer the serious questions of our day. So
something we like to maximize is that experience of working
with others that have competencies and perspectives that you may
(04:51):
not have. I knew there's a reason you're on this
podcast because we're all about that multidisciplinary collaboration being that
fourth multiplier. And this is how you've designed your whole school.
We've heard this word experience a lot, Gordon, and uh,
I think I know part of the answers to your
question about what makes for successful experience. Given the title
of your group take a hike, can you just share
(05:14):
a bit of the value of that exposure to an
experience in nature and how that fits into how your
program works and why you consider it an essential part
of the educational experience. Yeah. So we use nature as
a hook as a way to get students in. It
captures their attention, it's something that excites them, a place
(05:36):
to learn. We also experience the healing properties nature, but
most importantly, we use it as a place to build
relationships with yourself, with your peers, with your adults, and
a really strong connection to school and community. Something that
I was super surprised to find out is that school
connected us is the number one indicator of youth mental health.
This is even more important than family connectedness. And so
(05:58):
what we want to do is we want to get
these kids that have typically been isolated from school not attending.
We want to get them back in and we want
to get them forming relationships. We want to get them
forming deep community within their classroom so they can then
go out and find community outside of the classroom. It's
really about making sure that their desire to learn is ignited,
(06:19):
but it's also about making sure they've got the social, emotional,
and mental health skills to really succeed in school and life.
And what are some of the challenges the students in
your program in particular are facing. God, yeah, I am.
I always hate answering this question because it also I
know it puts our It puts our kids in a
in a deficit light. And really, when I look at them,
(06:42):
they're smart kids. They've got to be smart kids to
deal with everything they've been facing in life. They just
haven't find the right environment to thrive in. And I
see that when they have the right environment, they thrive,
they shine. They go from never attending to always attending,
to getting you know, really happy gariades, to being on
the Principles list. So, these are the kids that have
(07:05):
experienced some violence in the home. They might have experienced
some mental health concerns in the home. They're often finding
themselves with some mental health concerns. They are coping with
self harm, isolation, anti social behaviors. You know, they've had
a really hard hand dealt to them. And so by
the time they get to the University of Kentucky, Mr President,
(07:26):
how do you handle engaging with such a diverse range
of students when they get to your door, different types
of school systems, different financial circumstances, different possibly traumatic backgrounds.
What are you doing to provide a sort of an
inclusive learning environment for this full range of humans. So
a little picture of our campus population. We have a
(07:49):
hundred and schwanne counties in Kentucky. Students from all of those,
all fifty states and a hundred countries. So this is
a wonderful opportunity for the these in our sections of
life that Gordon talked about that are so important. We
recognize that we would never be able to hire enough
counselors to individually work with each student. The support that
(08:17):
I think Gordon has described that they can get from
one another is enormous. So we've tried to have living
learning experiences that bring our students together to be with
individuals who have a different story, a different identity. Often
we come from communities where everyone looks like us. At
(08:40):
the University of Kentucky, we have students who come from communities.
If you go from east to west, the life expectancy
can change by ten years. We have in one part
of our state a traditional fossil fuel industry in coal
that has a whole host of challenges. At the other
(09:01):
end of our state, we're building one of the most
modern battery plants. We have an enormous set of supports
around students that go beyond, you know, traditional counseling, and
we have a community that cares. You know, we have
a group of seventy eight people that meet once a
week use all kinds of information we garner from faculty, advisors, counselors,
(09:26):
and so forth to wrap around services to our students.
We're at a time where we have to be high
tech and hot touch on the use of technology to
reach out to students at at all times of the
day and night. One thing that comes to mind when
I whenever I hear university is cost. The price tags
(09:48):
seem to be moving at an extraordinary clip. In fact,
they are moving at an extraordinary clip. How do you
make sure that students can afford to remain in school?
Thank you for raising the question that has been a
top priority for us, using lots of data analytics to
(10:09):
determine why students succeed or not. And keep in mind
we've got thirty one thousand students. You have to customize
your interventions. It's not one size fits all. So we
used our data analytics to determine, you know, what are
those key factors that seemed to hold our students back.
(10:31):
And one that surfaced was that gap in unmet financial need,
which is really the the total cost of attendance and
how much you have in scholarships, grants and loans. We
found that once you close that to less than five
thousand dollars annually, the retention rates and graduation rates go
(10:55):
up dramatically. So we have built programs ours is referred
to as leads, and we target these students and we're
immediate in our responses. It can be in the middle
of a semester that we see these financial challenges along
with the immediate support comes with a financial wellness curriculum.
(11:20):
How can you learn about wise management of your finances?
What debt you undertake? Of our students graduate with no debt.
The average debt of students who do take out loans
is around thirty thou dollars. We watch those figures closely.
(11:41):
I'm happy to say to our financial aid has increased
significantly and it goes most to those in the lower
income groups. Of our students come from families whose average
annual income is just twenty dollars. Mm hmm. Gordon, I'm
gonna give you a chance to brag a bit about
(12:02):
take a hike in terms of the impact you've noticed
this program having on the students who are enrolled. Do
you have examples or stories you could share? Yeah, I
see so many education programs today that are really smart
about using something to hook kids. Take a hike. We've
(12:24):
used the outdoors to hook kids. But I see trades
culinary programs, hairstyling, art, sport technology programs. We find ways
that cook kids, that get them excited and interested in
learning and then bring them in And for kids that
have experienced vulnerabilities, these hooks are a really great way
to start to build those relationships and form friendships. When
(12:46):
we look at kids that have experienced some extreme trauma
in their lives, that have experienced some vulnerability. When kids
get reconnected, they want to start talking and they want
to start talking to adults that care about them. And
we can't expect that of teachers in the school system.
They are too busy doing too many other things. And
that's why I take a hike has embedded a registered
(13:07):
clinical counselor in the classroom, and so this is the
same person that when I go to see my therapist.
It's the same qualifications, and this person is there for
the kids all day, every day. We've got one counselor
for every twenties youth that we see. They start with
really seemingly innocuous conversation. You know, they might help a
kid with math homework, and all of a sudden, the
(13:29):
child starts to say, I hate math, and this is
why I hate math. And then they go for a
walk and it gets a deeper and deeper conversation until
they're finally starting to unpack some of these really really
meaningful events in their lives that are holding them back.
We get kids reconnected back to school. But when we
get them connected back, then we've got the place for
those kids that are experiencing vulnerabilities to really open up
(13:52):
and share and that's where we see these huge differences
happen in their lives. Does that cover the kind of
the mchin of the program and if not, is there
a a walk through what is a student experience of
the Take a Hike program? On a weekly basis, they're
in classroom four days a week throughout on the land
one day a week learning on and from the land.
(14:13):
Every single day starts with a circle where we get
the kids together in a circle. We asked them a
thought provoking question, uh, something that will help them open
up be vulnerable with their peers, and then we asked
them to give a number between one and ten about
how they're feeling that day. It's a really great way
for us to check in and we can watch numbers
change throughout the day, So that's kind of what the
day starts like. They'll be academic instruction, just like in
(14:36):
any other classroom. And then there's that interaction with the
mental health clinician. Some days it will just be a
casual conversations helping you out with math. The mental health
clinician gets to see issues that happened in the classroom
arise and gets to watch them in real time. So
that's part of what happens and take a hike. But
then there's that finer stuff that happens in between the scenes.
(14:56):
It's a ground kids actually starting to develop relationship ups
with each other, starting to find out that they're adults
in their lives that care about them, and being able
to go from you know, never going to school to
having this adult that comes and sees them at their
house and says, hey, what can I do to get
you back into school? We really miss you, we really
care about you, and showing up in their first day
(15:18):
with their hoodie on, not wanting to engage. And then
on the last day of school, they're around a campfire,
they've got their hoodies down and they're looking around at
a group of twenty other kids that they've made friends with.
They've never had friends before in their lives. This is
what take a high because it's about it's about building
that community, and it's about being able to show up
(15:38):
and find that place of belonging in a really mentally
healthy way. You're listening to a podcast called Force Multiplier,
Action meets Impact. Now. I'm sure you've grown to expect
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Join us today. Hey, I'm still Baritune Day, your host
for Force Multiplier, but I'm checking in with you with
a little different energy because if you're listening, you like
the show, and if you like the show, you might
like my other show, How to Citizen, where we take
(17:27):
citizen as a verb and find out from people practicing
the ways we can shape our community by showing up,
investing in relationships, understanding power, and valuing our collective selves.
Check it out at how to citizen dot com or
wherever you get your podcast. Do you have any partnerships
(17:50):
formally with sort of higher education third level education institutions
going in BC? We are British Columbia, where the province
where I live in Canada, we have lots of partnerships
where we're able to get um youth and of experienced vulnerabilities,
some opportunities to look into what university life is like.
One of my favorite programs is the Trade Sampler program
(18:11):
that we have here, and so this takes kids that
are interested in some type of trades program and they
spend their last year of high school where they're actually
going into the college to be able to learn some
of the trade skills. Well, Gordon doesn't doesn't know this,
but he's going to be opening up a satellite campus
in Kentucky. We have plenty of places for magnificent hikes.
(18:34):
We just need more caring people like Gordon. I am
so impressed that he's willing to take these individuals who
suffer trauma, who are hurting, who oftentimes we give up on,
and turn their lives around. So Gordon, thank you. Well
I'll take that as an official limitation. It is President Cappeluto.
(18:58):
You gave this really high impact commencement speech recently talking
about careers and further education. But really what struck me
as the encouragement you offered to these graduating students to
find or build community. And I'm hearing this theme come
up between both of you, Eli and Gordon, about your
(19:18):
engagement with the community, about extending the reach of the
educational experience beyond the classroom, and about inviting support from
beyond the school institution, from businesses, from neighbors, from governments.
So what does it look like to you for someone
to to give back, to build community and to extend
that relationship and that learning experience beyond the school or
(19:40):
the campus. Well, I think if we remain connected this
era that we're going through now, which is to fund
too often by divudge. When we have any kind of disagreements,
we have a better chance of bridging those. I think
if one and vest in the common goods of community
(20:02):
are one is a part of that, we have a
better chance of understanding one another at deeper levels. So
certainly we want our students to succeed individually and be
competent in many ways to do so. But it's time,
I think, to reinvest oneself in community. And you can
(20:26):
do that through so many opportunities school board service today.
You know, in the United States we've got a lot
of conflict in school boards now. People may want to
stay away from them. We need another generation to step
forward to solve those problems. You can do so in
your faith community. They're a variety of ways to engage.
(20:48):
We want to prepare our students to do so effectively.
And with meaning and purpose? How do you handle the
expectations that we continue to pour onto our educators. We
want you all to be safety officers, counselors, serrogate parents,
also occasionally teach curriculum, befriend the students, be ambassadors. It
(21:15):
feels like we're asking more. Is that your experience of it?
And uh? If so, how are you handling it? You know,
we have all these people who come here every day
to serve our students and our commonwealth, and we have
to pause and say, if they're going to take care
of our students and take care of our entire commonwealth,
(21:36):
we need to take care of them. So, um, we
have done a variety of sort of interventions to give
our employees tom and support to carry these burdens that
I think you so comprehensively describe that we're asked to
(22:00):
do today. So in need Tom away, You need familyly
policies that are supportive. You need pay in graces, you
need a competitive wage. All those things that we've tried
to address and I think been successful. Still more work
to do. Yeah, Gordon, how are you all handling the
(22:23):
increased expectations on our educators? I find that the educators
and the adults that we see coming in to take
a hike, they have these increased expectations of themselves and
they get into the line of work that they're in
because they really want to make a difference in people's lives.
And so, of course it's about making sure we have
all of those things that President Capa Luto has talked about,
(22:45):
that fair pay, the good leave, time, the benefits programs.
But we're also finding that we've been introducing something that's
unique within the school system here in BC in Canada,
and it's around to focus on the adults in the classroom.
They're so much research that shows the healthier the adults
in the classroom, the healthier the youth in the classroom.
I've really shifted my thinking from my job is to
(23:09):
care about youth to my job is to care about
the people that care about the youth, because that's where
I'm going to have the most impact, is to make
sure that the people who are they're taking care of
those youth that needed every day they need the love
to That is a positive reinforcement. Gordon, I like that
very very much, and it just keeps escalating in a
good way. It does we We also have sometimes an
(23:32):
increasing mismatch between the preparations that schools are offering to
their students and what the workforce requires. We want more
educated workers to power to economy, and I'm wondering if
the relationship between business leaders and corporate partners and educational
institutions is that something that's also evolving in terms of
(23:52):
that the handoff. You know, we've got Gordon handing off
to President Cappelutto, But President Cappelutto, how's that handoff going
into the workforce in our There any changes that you're
promoting in that relationship. I think to be able to
offer our students internships, co ops, experiential learning is essential.
We've made tremendous strides there. We certainly have more to do.
(24:16):
I do believe a silver lining of COVID is how
can we use the technology to make more opportunities available.
You know, traditionally we've educated students in sixteen or eighteen
weeks semesters. They may take a break in the summer.
Everyone wants to take an internship coop at that time
(24:37):
is pretty crowded. Well, now, why can't we have an
on campus experience? Shift that to a online learning experience
away from campus, while someone also has a co opera
internship experience. So I think the technology is going to
empower us to offer even more or of that kind
(25:01):
of career life preparation. Gordon, do you have anything to
add on on this kind of preparation for life beyond school. Yeah,
that's a lot of what Take a Hike does is
we really want to see kids be really successful in
whatever way they define success. And for us, it's about
making sure that they've got those skills to be really
good human beings, to to find friendships, to build relationships,
(25:24):
to have a family. If that's what they choose to do,
then there's also that career part that is important to us.
We often find ourselves handing off to President Cappolluter to
take it on from there, and I can see here
doing a good job of it. You also talked about
corporations and and how we're handing off to them, but
(25:44):
I want to talk about how they're given back as well.
We're seeing a lot of corporations and really wealthy philanthropists
really investing and take a Hike. We're actually not funded
by the government. Of the funding received last year for
the mental health clinicians and the out our activities we
do with our kids. It came from philanthropists, it came
from corporations that really want to see youth succeed. And
(26:10):
the importance of our donors. It's the money, yes, they
give that to us, but they're also lending the support
to the classroom when we're able to talk to kids
and say, you know, it's actually these people that care
about you and they're giving their funds because they want
to see you succeed. They see that there's more people
that care about them and it really does make that change.
(26:34):
We've also seen the way it makes a change in
our organization. We really borrowed the brains of our donors
and we've said, how do we develop a growth strategy,
how do we develop the organizational capacity so that we
can sustain significant investments and significant growth. And it's our
donors have been able to really encourage us to grow
and develop because they see the value that we provide
(26:55):
to the kids and they say more Canadian kids need
it kids and can Tucky needed. This is a good
point to keep building on that and learn about any
unexpected partnerships that you've forged or benefited from. That have
made a real difference in the success of your program. Gordon,
I'll start with you. We've recently begun forming relationships with
(27:16):
Indigenous communities. What we've been feeling is there's a really
strong connection between take a Hikes, focus on learning on
and from the land, community building and relationships with many
of the First Nations and Indigenous communities here in Canada.
We've just recently begun working with a First Nation here
on Vancouver Island and it's the first time we're ever
doing a First Nations or Indigenous focus program, and we're
(27:40):
excited for how this learning is going to change our organization.
We know that as much as we're going to be
able to offer the Indigenous communities, they're going to offer
so much back to us. We recognize the intergenerational trauma
that was caused by residential schools and that many of
these families have a hard time trusting education system because
(28:01):
of it, and we're really excited for our role in
being able to build bridges between Indigenous communities in the
school system. Thanks for that, Gordon, Uh. President Cappeluto is
clapping for you. Look at this. President Cappelutto, same question
to you about unexpected partnerships that have been of benefits
(28:21):
to your community. At the University of Kentucky, I'll tell
you one that's interesting to us that we just got
into a few years ago. Wasn't expected at all, But
we started to hear a lot about the sports and
game and I'd have to say I was an individual
leary of those kinds of activities. I thought that they
could be detrimental to one's mental health. For instance. Those
(28:45):
are the impressions I had when we recognized how quickly
that was growing. You know, when you visit a high
school a few years ago and they're proud of their
sports trophy that they, you know, just won as a
state champion. When you meet students who say that they
have maintained their connectivity with their younger siblings through the
(29:07):
games they have played online and all, and we said, gee,
we need to lean into this. So we have an
international partner that shares our values and GINGI. They offer
internships in Korea for our students. We have a gaming
facility that a private concern built for us in partnership,
(29:30):
and it's a multi use facility. So here we're building
community in a way that I never imagined. And uh,
probably don't fully understand yet, but it's work. It's working
in a new way to keep people connected. I love
that you can admit that. And uh, do I get
athletic credit for esports? That's my question that that is
(29:54):
outside of our athletics department. And in fact, I learned
about all of this when I served on the n
c A Board of Governors, and n c A considered
whether we would roll that in as a sort of
new sport, decided not to. But it's springing up on campuses.
(30:15):
That's amazing. To go to university and play games. I
did that, but I got no such credit. So I'm
glad that there's an adjustment that's happening. Well, we have
faculty engaged in this doing research on what are the
benefits and warning signals you see from these kinds of activities. Yes,
yes it's not all good, but clearly it's not all
(30:36):
bad either. That's very unexpected. I'd love to know one
thing that you want someone listening to this to know
about inclusivity and access to education and something you'd urge
them to do to contribute to that. President Capelutto, Well, Uh,
I think it takes courage to choose who one wishes
(31:02):
to associate with and learn from. So I think if
you can get yourself into a situation that offers you
a variety of perspectives, identities, stories, to develop a deeper
understanding in a place that promotes this in a safe
(31:23):
way is important. So for me, it's about finding that
place where you belong and it takes all of us
to do that. I am so astounded by what Gordon
is doing and salute him and others who labor in
those vineyards. Gordon, what's one thing you want someone listening
(31:46):
to this to know and to do? And the kids
we see it take a hiker often seen as those kids,
the one that's when you're walking down the street you
go to the other side of the street to avoid.
What I love for people to know is that they're
actually really smart kids. They're actually really caring kids. They
just need the right environment. They need some respect, They
(32:07):
need be treated as human beings. So instead across and
over the street, maybe stop and say hi. They are
worthy of care and respect as well, and they need
to find their way to the right environment might not
be take a hike for them, but somewhere that can
see them for their strengths, not for their deficits, somewhere
where they can succeed and UH find their place to belong. Well,
(32:28):
you've both given me, UH and our listeners a lot
to take away. And then the positive column here high tech,
high touch. I really like that connecting with each other,
with these selves, with the community around you, with the
land around you. That's right in line with a lot
of what we believe. So thank you both for the time,
(32:49):
for your contributions, and for investing in not just education
but our larger community. Really appreciate you both. Thanks for
having me. Thank you. I think a lot of us
can take some big lessons away from President Cappoluto and Gordon.
(33:09):
It's so important to protect the people at the front lines,
the educators, school teachers, counselors, making sure they have what
they need to nurture their own mental and physical health.
I also love the idea of trusting the process, meeting
students in spaces where they already gathered, be it through
technology or somewhere in nature, to adopt the lessons they
(33:32):
learned in the classroom. And even when we don't understand
these spaces fully or maybe feel uncomfortable, the ability to
lean into the unknown, this willingness to teach resilience, It's
just something we need to survive these volatile times. Are
(33:58):
you feeling inspired and want to check out more information
about the organizations we talked about in this episode. Learn
more about our guests and how you can support their
work by going to Salesforce dot org slash Force Multiplier.
Force Multiplier is a production of I Heart Radio and
Salesforce dot Org. Hosted by me Barrettune Day Thurston. It's
executive produced by Elizabeth Stewart, produced by Ivan Schien, edited
(34:22):
and mixed by James Foster, and written by Yvette Lopez.
A special thanks to our guests, President Eli Cappeludo and
Gordon Matchett. Listen to Force Multiplier on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast
Well, hello there, and welcome back today. I want to
talk about something that's both very important and very top
of mind right now. Education. I know we all know
that cliche saying it takes a village to raise a child,
But what happens when the village and charge of raising
the kid is flawed or even broken. Nobody could disagree
(00:29):
with the fact that teachers and staff today have it
really tough. They're expected to educate students, a monumental task
on its own, get them ready for college, make sure
they've got transferable skills for that first job. But they're
also asked to do more under immense pressure, virtual learning
(00:50):
during a pandemic, remotely supporting over twenty kids adequately. Add
to that laundry list the idea that education ers now
have the job of keeping their students safe from violence.
It's unfortunate that the drills of my youth, where we
hit under a desk or just walked onto the playground
(01:12):
and lined up according to height, that that safety measure
is nowhere near enough today. Now, as you know by now,
this show is all about leveraging our collective power to
influence change. Our two guests today, they are testaments to
this both are well aware of the odds, and yet
they choose to go against them to build safe spaces
(01:34):
for students to achieve their goals, regardless of where they
come from. Joining us today is Eli Cappeludo, President of
the University of Kentucky. He's the university's twelfth president and
has led a two point eight billion dollar transformation of
the campus that's aimed at enriching the living learning experience
of his students by strengthening the research infrastructure. He's a
(01:57):
huge believer in the university's capacity to teach, heal, and
serve through partnerships with various philanthropic and private partners, and
much like President Kappeluto, our second guest, Gordon Matchett, is
focused on fostering spaces where students feel safe enough to
reach their best potential. He's the CEO of Take a Hike,
(02:18):
an organization that partners with public school districts to engage
vulnerable youth and mental health and well being programs in
alternate education classrooms in Canada. Two great guests, One big topic.
That's how we do it here less divan Welcome class.
(02:43):
Good to have you here. I want to start with
what you see as the key to a successful educational
experience for a student, President Cappoluto, what are the key
ingredients here? Well, that you maximize your experience by understanding
(03:04):
at a deeper level who you are, and that you
find your meaning and purpose. We certainly know those expressions
about being able to bear any burden if your hy
is sufficient. I think college is a wonderful time to
explore yourself and opportunities to have that life of meaning
(03:26):
and purpose. How you may treat a community. I want
to follow up on that because so much of the
trend that I perceive an education is about individual focus, personalization, customization,
and being your best self, individual self as opposed to
collective self. So can you add a little flavor to
(03:48):
what the diagnosis of a community? What does that practically
look like and how does that affect how you educate
your students. So I think one understands that in tackling
us area is problem, there's not just one factor. So
what are these determinants of a healthy community? Education, safe water,
(04:10):
safe streets, good nutrition, mental well being. There is not
one lever to pool. I like to say that there
are micro interventions to have a macro effect. So understanding
the complexity of a community. Today, we are one of
(04:30):
eight universities in the country that has a RAID on
a contiguous campus. The depth and breadth of disciplines you
need to answer the serious questions of our day. So
something we like to maximize is that experience of working
with others that have competencies and perspectives that you may
(04:51):
not have. I knew there's a reason you're on this
podcast because we're all about that multidisciplinary collaboration being that
fourth multiplier. And this is how you've designed your whole school.
We've heard this word experience a lot, Gordon, and uh,
I think I know part of the answers to your
question about what makes for successful experience. Given the title
of your group take a hike, can you just share
(05:14):
a bit of the value of that exposure to an
experience in nature and how that fits into how your
program works and why you consider it an essential part
of the educational experience. Yeah. So we use nature as
a hook as a way to get students in. It
captures their attention, it's something that excites them, a place
(05:36):
to learn. We also experience the healing properties nature, but
most importantly, we use it as a place to build
relationships with yourself, with your peers, with your adults, and
a really strong connection to school and community. Something that
I was super surprised to find out is that school
connected us is the number one indicator of youth mental health.
This is even more important than family connectedness. And so
(05:58):
what we want to do is we want to get
these kids that have typically been isolated from school not attending.
We want to get them back in and we want
to get them forming relationships. We want to get them
forming deep community within their classroom so they can then
go out and find community outside of the classroom. It's
really about making sure that their desire to learn is ignited,
(06:19):
but it's also about making sure they've got the social, emotional,
and mental health skills to really succeed in school and life.
And what are some of the challenges the students in
your program in particular are facing. God, yeah, I am.
I always hate answering this question because it also I
know it puts our It puts our kids in a
in a deficit light. And really, when I look at them,
(06:42):
they're smart kids. They've got to be smart kids to
deal with everything they've been facing in life. They just
haven't find the right environment to thrive in. And I
see that when they have the right environment, they thrive,
they shine. They go from never attending to always attending,
to getting you know, really happy gariades, to being on
the Principles list. So, these are the kids that have
(07:05):
experienced some violence in the home. They might have experienced
some mental health concerns in the home. They're often finding
themselves with some mental health concerns. They are coping with
self harm, isolation, anti social behaviors. You know, they've had
a really hard hand dealt to them. And so by
the time they get to the University of Kentucky, Mr President,
(07:26):
how do you handle engaging with such a diverse range
of students when they get to your door, different types
of school systems, different financial circumstances, different possibly traumatic backgrounds.
What are you doing to provide a sort of an
inclusive learning environment for this full range of humans. So
a little picture of our campus population. We have a
(07:49):
hundred and schwanne counties in Kentucky. Students from all of those,
all fifty states and a hundred countries. So this is
a wonderful opportunity for the these in our sections of
life that Gordon talked about that are so important. We
recognize that we would never be able to hire enough
counselors to individually work with each student. The support that
(08:17):
I think Gordon has described that they can get from
one another is enormous. So we've tried to have living
learning experiences that bring our students together to be with
individuals who have a different story, a different identity. Often
we come from communities where everyone looks like us. At
(08:40):
the University of Kentucky, we have students who come from communities.
If you go from east to west, the life expectancy
can change by ten years. We have in one part
of our state a traditional fossil fuel industry in coal
that has a whole host of challenges. At the other
(09:01):
end of our state, we're building one of the most
modern battery plants. We have an enormous set of supports
around students that go beyond, you know, traditional counseling, and
we have a community that cares. You know, we have
a group of seventy eight people that meet once a
week use all kinds of information we garner from faculty, advisors, counselors,
(09:26):
and so forth to wrap around services to our students.
We're at a time where we have to be high
tech and hot touch on the use of technology to
reach out to students at at all times of the
day and night. One thing that comes to mind when
I whenever I hear university is cost. The price tags
(09:48):
seem to be moving at an extraordinary clip. In fact,
they are moving at an extraordinary clip. How do you
make sure that students can afford to remain in school?
Thank you for raising the question that has been a
top priority for us, using lots of data analytics to
(10:09):
determine why students succeed or not. And keep in mind
we've got thirty one thousand students. You have to customize
your interventions. It's not one size fits all. So we
used our data analytics to determine, you know, what are
those key factors that seemed to hold our students back.
(10:31):
And one that surfaced was that gap in unmet financial need,
which is really the the total cost of attendance and
how much you have in scholarships, grants and loans. We
found that once you close that to less than five
thousand dollars annually, the retention rates and graduation rates go
(10:55):
up dramatically. So we have built programs ours is referred
to as leads, and we target these students and we're
immediate in our responses. It can be in the middle
of a semester that we see these financial challenges along
with the immediate support comes with a financial wellness curriculum.
(11:20):
How can you learn about wise management of your finances?
What debt you undertake? Of our students graduate with no debt.
The average debt of students who do take out loans
is around thirty thou dollars. We watch those figures closely.
(11:41):
I'm happy to say to our financial aid has increased
significantly and it goes most to those in the lower
income groups. Of our students come from families whose average
annual income is just twenty dollars. Mm hmm. Gordon, I'm
gonna give you a chance to brag a bit about
(12:02):
take a hike in terms of the impact you've noticed
this program having on the students who are enrolled. Do
you have examples or stories you could share? Yeah, I
see so many education programs today that are really smart
about using something to hook kids. Take a hike. We've
(12:24):
used the outdoors to hook kids. But I see trades
culinary programs, hairstyling, art, sport technology programs. We find ways
that cook kids, that get them excited and interested in
learning and then bring them in And for kids that
have experienced vulnerabilities, these hooks are a really great way
to start to build those relationships and form friendships. When
(12:46):
we look at kids that have experienced some extreme trauma
in their lives, that have experienced some vulnerability. When kids
get reconnected, they want to start talking and they want
to start talking to adults that care about them. And
we can't expect that of teachers in the school system.
They are too busy doing too many other things. And
that's why I take a hike has embedded a registered
(13:07):
clinical counselor in the classroom, and so this is the
same person that when I go to see my therapist.
It's the same qualifications, and this person is there for
the kids all day, every day. We've got one counselor
for every twenties youth that we see. They start with
really seemingly innocuous conversation. You know, they might help a
kid with math homework, and all of a sudden, the
(13:29):
child starts to say, I hate math, and this is
why I hate math. And then they go for a
walk and it gets a deeper and deeper conversation until
they're finally starting to unpack some of these really really
meaningful events in their lives that are holding them back.
We get kids reconnected back to school. But when we
get them connected back, then we've got the place for
those kids that are experiencing vulnerabilities to really open up
(13:52):
and share and that's where we see these huge differences
happen in their lives. Does that cover the kind of
the mchin of the program and if not, is there
a a walk through what is a student experience of
the Take a Hike program? On a weekly basis, they're
in classroom four days a week throughout on the land
one day a week learning on and from the land.
(14:13):
Every single day starts with a circle where we get
the kids together in a circle. We asked them a
thought provoking question, uh, something that will help them open
up be vulnerable with their peers, and then we asked
them to give a number between one and ten about
how they're feeling that day. It's a really great way
for us to check in and we can watch numbers
change throughout the day, So that's kind of what the
day starts like. They'll be academic instruction, just like in
(14:36):
any other classroom. And then there's that interaction with the
mental health clinician. Some days it will just be a
casual conversations helping you out with math. The mental health
clinician gets to see issues that happened in the classroom
arise and gets to watch them in real time. So
that's part of what happens and take a hike. But
then there's that finer stuff that happens in between the scenes.
(14:56):
It's a ground kids actually starting to develop relationship ups
with each other, starting to find out that they're adults
in their lives that care about them, and being able
to go from you know, never going to school to
having this adult that comes and sees them at their
house and says, hey, what can I do to get
you back into school? We really miss you, we really
care about you, and showing up in their first day
(15:18):
with their hoodie on, not wanting to engage. And then
on the last day of school, they're around a campfire,
they've got their hoodies down and they're looking around at
a group of twenty other kids that they've made friends with.
They've never had friends before in their lives. This is
what take a high because it's about it's about building
that community, and it's about being able to show up
(15:38):
and find that place of belonging in a really mentally
healthy way. You're listening to a podcast called Force Multiplier,
Action meets Impact. Now. I'm sure you've grown to expect
ads baked into your podcast us, but we're going to
(16:01):
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Join us today. Hey, I'm still Baritune Day, your host
for Force Multiplier, but I'm checking in with you with
a little different energy because if you're listening, you like
the show, and if you like the show, you might
like my other show, How to Citizen, where we take
(17:27):
citizen as a verb and find out from people practicing
the ways we can shape our community by showing up,
investing in relationships, understanding power, and valuing our collective selves.
Check it out at how to citizen dot com or
wherever you get your podcast. Do you have any partnerships
(17:50):
formally with sort of higher education third level education institutions
going in BC? We are British Columbia, where the province
where I live in Canada, we have lots of partnerships
where we're able to get um youth and of experienced vulnerabilities,
some opportunities to look into what university life is like.
One of my favorite programs is the Trade Sampler program
(18:11):
that we have here, and so this takes kids that
are interested in some type of trades program and they
spend their last year of high school where they're actually
going into the college to be able to learn some
of the trade skills. Well, Gordon doesn't doesn't know this,
but he's going to be opening up a satellite campus
in Kentucky. We have plenty of places for magnificent hikes.
(18:34):
We just need more caring people like Gordon. I am
so impressed that he's willing to take these individuals who
suffer trauma, who are hurting, who oftentimes we give up on,
and turn their lives around. So Gordon, thank you. Well
I'll take that as an official limitation. It is President Cappeluto.
(18:58):
You gave this really high impact commencement speech recently talking
about careers and further education. But really what struck me
as the encouragement you offered to these graduating students to
find or build community. And I'm hearing this theme come
up between both of you, Eli and Gordon, about your
(19:18):
engagement with the community, about extending the reach of the
educational experience beyond the classroom, and about inviting support from
beyond the school institution, from businesses, from neighbors, from governments.
So what does it look like to you for someone
to to give back, to build community and to extend
that relationship and that learning experience beyond the school or
(19:40):
the campus. Well, I think if we remain connected this
era that we're going through now, which is to fund
too often by divudge. When we have any kind of disagreements,
we have a better chance of bridging those. I think
if one and vest in the common goods of community
(20:02):
are one is a part of that, we have a
better chance of understanding one another at deeper levels. So
certainly we want our students to succeed individually and be
competent in many ways to do so. But it's time,
I think, to reinvest oneself in community. And you can
(20:26):
do that through so many opportunities school board service today.
You know, in the United States we've got a lot
of conflict in school boards now. People may want to
stay away from them. We need another generation to step
forward to solve those problems. You can do so in
your faith community. They're a variety of ways to engage.
(20:48):
We want to prepare our students to do so effectively.
And with meaning and purpose? How do you handle the
expectations that we continue to pour onto our educators. We
want you all to be safety officers, counselors, serrogate parents,
also occasionally teach curriculum, befriend the students, be ambassadors. It
(21:15):
feels like we're asking more. Is that your experience of it?
And uh? If so, how are you handling it? You know,
we have all these people who come here every day
to serve our students and our commonwealth, and we have
to pause and say, if they're going to take care
of our students and take care of our entire commonwealth,
(21:36):
we need to take care of them. So, um, we
have done a variety of sort of interventions to give
our employees tom and support to carry these burdens that
I think you so comprehensively describe that we're asked to
(22:00):
do today. So in need Tom away, You need familyly
policies that are supportive. You need pay in graces, you
need a competitive wage. All those things that we've tried
to address and I think been successful. Still more work
to do. Yeah, Gordon, how are you all handling the
(22:23):
increased expectations on our educators? I find that the educators
and the adults that we see coming in to take
a hike, they have these increased expectations of themselves and
they get into the line of work that they're in
because they really want to make a difference in people's lives.
And so, of course it's about making sure we have
all of those things that President Capa Luto has talked about,
(22:45):
that fair pay, the good leave, time, the benefits programs.
But we're also finding that we've been introducing something that's
unique within the school system here in BC in Canada,
and it's around to focus on the adults in the classroom.
They're so much research that shows the healthier the adults
in the classroom, the healthier the youth in the classroom.
I've really shifted my thinking from my job is to
(23:09):
care about youth to my job is to care about
the people that care about the youth, because that's where
I'm going to have the most impact, is to make
sure that the people who are they're taking care of
those youth that needed every day they need the love
to That is a positive reinforcement. Gordon, I like that
very very much, and it just keeps escalating in a
good way. It does we We also have sometimes an
(23:32):
increasing mismatch between the preparations that schools are offering to
their students and what the workforce requires. We want more
educated workers to power to economy, and I'm wondering if
the relationship between business leaders and corporate partners and educational
institutions is that something that's also evolving in terms of
(23:52):
that the handoff. You know, we've got Gordon handing off
to President Cappelutto, But President Cappelutto, how's that handoff going
into the workforce in our There any changes that you're
promoting in that relationship. I think to be able to
offer our students internships, co ops, experiential learning is essential.
We've made tremendous strides there. We certainly have more to do.
(24:16):
I do believe a silver lining of COVID is how
can we use the technology to make more opportunities available.
You know, traditionally we've educated students in sixteen or eighteen
weeks semesters. They may take a break in the summer.
Everyone wants to take an internship coop at that time
(24:37):
is pretty crowded. Well, now, why can't we have an
on campus experience? Shift that to a online learning experience
away from campus, while someone also has a co opera
internship experience. So I think the technology is going to
empower us to offer even more or of that kind
(25:01):
of career life preparation. Gordon, do you have anything to
add on on this kind of preparation for life beyond school. Yeah,
that's a lot of what Take a Hike does is
we really want to see kids be really successful in
whatever way they define success. And for us, it's about
making sure that they've got those skills to be really
good human beings, to to find friendships, to build relationships,
(25:24):
to have a family. If that's what they choose to do,
then there's also that career part that is important to us.
We often find ourselves handing off to President Cappolluter to
take it on from there, and I can see here
doing a good job of it. You also talked about
corporations and and how we're handing off to them, but
(25:44):
I want to talk about how they're given back as well.
We're seeing a lot of corporations and really wealthy philanthropists
really investing and take a Hike. We're actually not funded
by the government. Of the funding received last year for
the mental health clinicians and the out our activities we
do with our kids. It came from philanthropists, it came
from corporations that really want to see youth succeed. And
(26:10):
the importance of our donors. It's the money, yes, they
give that to us, but they're also lending the support
to the classroom when we're able to talk to kids
and say, you know, it's actually these people that care
about you and they're giving their funds because they want
to see you succeed. They see that there's more people
that care about them and it really does make that change.
(26:34):
We've also seen the way it makes a change in
our organization. We really borrowed the brains of our donors
and we've said, how do we develop a growth strategy,
how do we develop the organizational capacity so that we
can sustain significant investments and significant growth. And it's our
donors have been able to really encourage us to grow
and develop because they see the value that we provide
(26:55):
to the kids and they say more Canadian kids need
it kids and can Tucky needed. This is a good
point to keep building on that and learn about any
unexpected partnerships that you've forged or benefited from. That have
made a real difference in the success of your program. Gordon,
I'll start with you. We've recently begun forming relationships with
(27:16):
Indigenous communities. What we've been feeling is there's a really
strong connection between take a Hikes, focus on learning on
and from the land, community building and relationships with many
of the First Nations and Indigenous communities here in Canada.
We've just recently begun working with a First Nation here
on Vancouver Island and it's the first time we're ever
doing a First Nations or Indigenous focus program, and we're
(27:40):
excited for how this learning is going to change our organization.
We know that as much as we're going to be
able to offer the Indigenous communities, they're going to offer
so much back to us. We recognize the intergenerational trauma
that was caused by residential schools and that many of
these families have a hard time trusting education system because
(28:01):
of it, and we're really excited for our role in
being able to build bridges between Indigenous communities in the
school system. Thanks for that, Gordon, Uh. President Cappeluto is
clapping for you. Look at this. President Cappelutto, same question
to you about unexpected partnerships that have been of benefits
(28:21):
to your community. At the University of Kentucky, I'll tell
you one that's interesting to us that we just got
into a few years ago. Wasn't expected at all, But
we started to hear a lot about the sports and
game and I'd have to say I was an individual
leary of those kinds of activities. I thought that they
could be detrimental to one's mental health. For instance. Those
(28:45):
are the impressions I had when we recognized how quickly
that was growing. You know, when you visit a high
school a few years ago and they're proud of their
sports trophy that they, you know, just won as a
state champion. When you meet students who say that they
have maintained their connectivity with their younger siblings through the
(29:07):
games they have played online and all, and we said, gee,
we need to lean into this. So we have an
international partner that shares our values and GINGI. They offer
internships in Korea for our students. We have a gaming
facility that a private concern built for us in partnership,
(29:30):
and it's a multi use facility. So here we're building
community in a way that I never imagined. And uh,
probably don't fully understand yet, but it's work. It's working
in a new way to keep people connected. I love
that you can admit that. And uh, do I get
athletic credit for esports? That's my question that that is
(29:54):
outside of our athletics department. And in fact, I learned
about all of this when I served on the n
c A Board of Governors, and n c A considered
whether we would roll that in as a sort of
new sport, decided not to. But it's springing up on campuses.
(30:15):
That's amazing. To go to university and play games. I
did that, but I got no such credit. So I'm
glad that there's an adjustment that's happening. Well, we have
faculty engaged in this doing research on what are the
benefits and warning signals you see from these kinds of activities. Yes,
yes it's not all good, but clearly it's not all
(30:36):
bad either. That's very unexpected. I'd love to know one
thing that you want someone listening to this to know
about inclusivity and access to education and something you'd urge
them to do to contribute to that. President Capelutto, Well, Uh,
I think it takes courage to choose who one wishes
(31:02):
to associate with and learn from. So I think if
you can get yourself into a situation that offers you
a variety of perspectives, identities, stories, to develop a deeper
understanding in a place that promotes this in a safe
(31:23):
way is important. So for me, it's about finding that
place where you belong and it takes all of us
to do that. I am so astounded by what Gordon
is doing and salute him and others who labor in
those vineyards. Gordon, what's one thing you want someone listening
(31:46):
to this to know and to do? And the kids
we see it take a hiker often seen as those kids,
the one that's when you're walking down the street you
go to the other side of the street to avoid.
What I love for people to know is that they're
actually really smart kids. They're actually really caring kids. They
just need the right environment. They need some respect, They
(32:07):
need be treated as human beings. So instead across and
over the street, maybe stop and say hi. They are
worthy of care and respect as well, and they need
to find their way to the right environment might not
be take a hike for them, but somewhere that can
see them for their strengths, not for their deficits, somewhere
where they can succeed and UH find their place to belong. Well,
(32:28):
you've both given me, UH and our listeners a lot
to take away. And then the positive column here high tech,
high touch. I really like that connecting with each other,
with these selves, with the community around you, with the
land around you. That's right in line with a lot
of what we believe. So thank you both for the time,
(32:49):
for your contributions, and for investing in not just education
but our larger community. Really appreciate you both. Thanks for
having me. Thank you. I think a lot of us
can take some big lessons away from President Cappoluto and Gordon.
(33:09):
It's so important to protect the people at the front lines,
the educators, school teachers, counselors, making sure they have what
they need to nurture their own mental and physical health.
I also love the idea of trusting the process, meeting
students in spaces where they already gathered, be it through
technology or somewhere in nature, to adopt the lessons they
(33:32):
learned in the classroom. And even when we don't understand
these spaces fully or maybe feel uncomfortable, the ability to
lean into the unknown, this willingness to teach resilience, It's
just something we need to survive these volatile times. Are
(33:58):
you feeling inspired and want to check out more information
about the organizations we talked about in this episode. Learn
more about our guests and how you can support their
work by going to Salesforce dot org slash Force Multiplier.
Force Multiplier is a production of I Heart Radio and
Salesforce dot Org. Hosted by me Barrettune Day Thurston. It's
executive produced by Elizabeth Stewart, produced by Ivan Schien, edited
(34:22):
and mixed by James Foster, and written by Yvette Lopez.
A special thanks to our guests, President Eli Cappeludo and
Gordon Matchett. Listen to Force Multiplier on the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast
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