November 14, 2024 • 27 mins
The director of the documentary series joins the show to discuss his experience in bringing the story of Shekinah Church and 7M to life. He explains why it was crucial to present the narrative from the perspective of former members. He also shares the cinematic influences that shaped the visual style of the series. Derek talks about how the documentary aims to support individuals facing similar struggles and describes the significant effort his team made, including traveling to Korea, to capture an emotional conversation between the Lee sisters.
Forgive Me For I Have Followed continues the exploration from Netflix’s hit Dancing for the Devil documentary series by delving deeper into the personal stories of those affected by Robert Shinn, Shekinah Church, and 7M Films. We will focus on the experiences of victims and their families, address urgent questions raised in the documentary, and gather insights from former members and dancers. Our goal is to uncover strategies for combating abuse and ensuring that controlling, cult-like communities are held accountable for their actions.
*The following is based on actual events. Certain composite and representative materials and characters have been used for dramatic purposes.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
There would it be no audience, There would be no
success without you trusting us, without you being brave enough
to be vulnerable on camera and share your story. So
the fact that you feel like we did it right,
we did it with respect and reverence for you, and
that it felt redemptive for you, and that to me
means more than anything.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm
Jessica Osibeto, executive producer of the Netflix series Dancing for
the Double The Seven M TikTok Cult. This documentary series
explored the story of Robert Chin, the La based Chakaina
Church and Seven M Films. Chin founded Chakina Church over
two decades ago before establishing seven M Films and is
named in a civil lawsuit alleging abuse and cult like behavior.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And I'm Cleah Gray, former member of Chakina Church and
Seven M Films.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
In this episode, we sit down with Derek Doodein, the
director of the Netflix documentary Dancing for the Devil the
Seven M TikTok Cult. Derek shares his journey and bringing
the story of Kind and seven M to life, emphasizing
the importance of telling it from the perspective of former members.
He also discusses the cinematic influence that shape the visual
style of the series.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Derek explains how the documentary aims to support those facing
similar struggles and highlights the significant efforts his team undertook,
including a trip to Korea to capture an emotional conversation
between the Lease sisters.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It was really good to see him. I feel like
I hadn't seen him in a while. When you're used
to seeing someone every single day for two years and
then you don't see them for a month or two,
it just feels like a really, really long time. So
I'm so thankful to have had the opportunity to catch
up now.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Our conversation with Derek Donan, director of Dancing for the Devil.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Derek, welcome and thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Stoked to be here, ladies, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
We haven't spoken since the documentary came out.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I know you have a lot of other projects going
on right now, so I really appreciate you carving this
time out for us. One of the things I wanted
to know was what initially drew you to the seven
M documentary.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
When that initial Rolling Stone story broke, it spread like wildfires.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
You know, you were living it Clea And on our side,
I'm always.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Looking for projects that have a lot of heart, that
feel urgent, that are unfolding in real time if and
when possible, and this sort of ticks those boxes. And
then it was very quickly announced that HBO was doing it,
and Chrissy Tagan was involved, There's a whole other film team,
and so you know, I didn't even really think that
it could be a possibility. But little did I know
that Jess in the background had already been working on it.
(02:44):
And so when it came to me through Jess and Netflix,
it felt like something I could really sink my teeth into.
It felt like there was an opportunity to travel into
the genre in a way that felt fresh. These projects,
from what I have seen, tend to focus on the
cult leader, and you know, Robert has a similar playbook,
(03:04):
and it didn't feel like he needed any more shine.
And so it was like, let's give the audience the
context that's necessary to understand the journey of the subjects,
but really center the victim stories and let the experience
of what it feels like to come out of a
group like this and to lose somebody into a group.
You know that that felt like a fresh perspective and
one that was unresolved, you know, one that I felt like,
(03:26):
through our filmmaking process, perhaps we could help some of
the people as they go through their journey and we
could see a real transformation happening in real time in
front of the screen.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
And that's a rare opportunity.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I can't imagine having done this project with anyone else
but you, Derek, and I'm so thankful. And I know
there was a lot of challenges for us along the
way because we were dealing with all of this in
real time. What challenges and rewards did you feel that
you experienced the most well filming and the process of making.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
This trying to understand the complexities of what everyone was
going through in real time. There were so many different
people going through so much. Really sort of experiencing trauma
in real time, processing their trauma in real time and
asking somebody to do that on camera for an audience
of millions of people is a really sensitive, delicate ask,
(04:21):
and it's one that we took very seriously. And so
there were so many conversations that we were having with
each other with the subjects, with subjects who aren't even
in the show, behind the scenes all the time, really
just trying to understand where they were and whether we
felt okay, whether they felt okay sharing their story. I
think often going through this process can be cathartic, It
(04:44):
can help healing.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
I've seen it before.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
But we didn't ever want to put somebody in a
position that compromised their mental health, their safety, their integrity,
and so that was a constant conversation and concern of ours,
you know, so trying to navigate those bigger picture things
with the ever changing nature of the story, fears of
any sort of retaliation what Robert and people in the
(05:09):
church might be thinking or doing to us or the subjects,
in addition to just making sure we're.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
There right with cameras in all the right moments.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And often it was just a you know, three person crew, right,
and so we didn't have you know, tons of support
when it came to.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Planning and executing these shoots. So it was really just the.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Small team of us that were wearing all the hats.
I mean, that's like you know, typical and doc filmmaking,
and we had to stay on schedule. You know and
deliver a show, and we didn't know what the ending
was going to be, right. We were hopeful, you know,
Miranda would get out, right, Nick would get out, but
we weren't sure, and so we had to sort of
always plan around with contingencies and all the while do
so centering the subjects well being and still come out
(05:49):
with something that we were really proud of.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
When we talk about not knowing where the story was going,
it's not just about the end. In the third episode
when we started this process, you guys were still in there.
The dancer were still in there, right, Alicia was still
in there.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
So we were.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Really in the beginning molding as we were very hopeful
of what could potentially happen. But that idea that you
were a part of this from the beginning, I mean
we were, Derek how lot months in before that happened.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I feel like, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
With other projects, is this the first one that you've
had to deal with like a project in real time?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Like this the first I think in a series.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And I got to give Netflix a little credit for
believing in us and believing that we will find our
way because you see it sometimes in feature docs where
I think there's a little less schedule pressure and you
have a little bit more malleability in the budget and schedule,
but you don't see it as much in series. Typically,
executives like to know what the ending's going to be,
(06:48):
and I've pitched stuff where they're like, we love the story,
but it's too uncertain. We don't know what's going to happen,
and we can't bank on anything, and so we're.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Going to pass.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And so you have to have them believe that one
way or the other we would be able to resolve
the story for the audience. I actually think in a
lot of ways it drove some of the success of
the show, and that the audience felt like they were
coming into it feeling like they could participate in some
way and try and affect some change. Sadly, we still
haven't seen much, but we're hopeful.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
In the lawsuit, that's very true. And also speaking of
the success, it did so well. The documentary was what
number one for however many weeks on Netflix?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, more than two weeks.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, I know, especially being on the other end, like
how difficult it was for one us to confront these
very fresh things and just like the pain associated with
having to cut ties with people that many of us
have known for.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Years and leaving a very.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Dangerous environment, I would say, And for you guys to
have to deal with like our emotions and the things
that we were processing, and to still put out a
work that you put out, how well put together, how
beautifully thought out. I feel like a lot of our
story we're told in a great light. It really felt
like a redemption story for us. So thank you guys.
It has helped us and a lot of the other people,
even the ones who didn't go on camera, they really
(08:09):
appreciated the fact that it was out for the world
to see.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
There would be no audience, there would be no success
without you trusting us, without you being brave enough to
be vulnerable on camera and share your story. So the
fact that you feel like we did it right, we
did it with respect and reverence for you, and that
it felt redemptive for you, that to me means more
than anything any award, any numbers, any success of the show.
That we honored you and in your story means the most.
(08:34):
So yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Absolutely agree and with this process as well, Khalia. You know,
there was a lot of decisions that were being made
obviously in real time, and it was shifting, and the
timeline was also much longer than I think we anticipated.
So Derek a lot of times was picking up the
camera and he was running in and we're picking up
additional interviews because it is something that was so honest
(08:56):
and real, and with that obviously comes struggles with when
opportunities come up. And one of the things that I
wanted to talk a little bit about was Derek when
we traveled to Korea with the Lee sisters. So for
those that haven't seen the documentary, the Lee sisters are
Melanie Lee and Priscilla Lee, who also goes by Alisha
(09:17):
Priscilla Lee. They were both a big focus of the
documentary and the earlier days of Chicaina or as sometimes
as Kale and I referenced Chakaina one point zero.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Can you share a.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Little bit, Derek about why that was so important for
us to travel to Korea to capture the Lee sisters
together and what that heart wrenching moment was like of
the reconciliation between the two.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, and it should be worth noting for the audience
that that conversation in case there's any confusion, because we
don't explicitly say it in the show that the conversation
between Mel and Priscilla at the tea house that happened
in Korea on the trip to Korea, and it was
one that we knew was coming, we just didn't know
when it was going to happen. There's the scene where
(10:06):
they sit down in the back of Mel's house to talk,
and we had sort of anticipated that being the conversation
where the damn breaks open and they start sharing all
of these experiences and emotions and things that had happened
over the last ten years where they hadn't been in touch.
It was one of the first times that they were
really sort of coming together to try and do that,
and as you see in the show, it was really
(10:28):
awkward and it was a learning process for me. I
think as a filmmaker. I think coming into this, there
was this perception that, you know, when you get out
of something like this, that you're just so happy to
have your freedom and to reconnect with your family, and
that you can sort of start the process very quickly
of returning to normal, And I think seeing that conversation
(10:48):
really showed me how hard it can be and how
long of a road it is. To repair those relationships
and to repair yourself. So we knew that conversation, and
I imagine more have happened since we knew what conversations
like that were coming, and we were having conversations separately
with Mel and Priscilla as to whether they'd had any
conversations like that, whether they were starting to feel more comfortable,
(11:09):
because we wanted to be there, and so it didn't
happen by accident.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
It wasn't planned. We didn't go there to have it,
but we figured.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It was hard to do in Los Angeles in the
environment that they were in because when they were getting
together often it was so that Priscilla could babysit. They
weren't going to have that conversation in front of Mel's daughter,
in front of her family, like it felt like it
had to be something very personal. And so when this
trip came up, and when they said we're going to
go back and try and sort of confront our parents
(11:38):
and go back to where this all started, Justin and
I looked at each other like, that's where this is
going to happen, right away from the pressures of daily life.
And I think where a lot of the trouble started.
I think that sort of led them to be in
a vulnerable enough place to where when someone like Robert
came knocking, it felt like a really good idea to
them at the time. I think that all started from
their upbringing in Korea and a lot of the instability
(12:00):
they had at home with their parents, and they wanted
to go confront their parents. So it felt really important
to just be there for that and be by their
side for the entirety of that trip if we could.
The fact that, again that both of them allowed us
to be there for something that was really challenging and vulnerable,
I'm just really grateful for that, and I think it
inspired and moved a whole lot of people.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
After the break, we continue our conversation with Derek Doning.
This is forgive me for I have followed. We'll be
right back.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Now
back to our conversation with Derek Doninge.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I know for me and a couple of the other
dancers that the big moment for us in the documentary
was when they served Robert his papers.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
That was the one that we all got a call
was like, did you see the part when they ran
in the restaurant and served the papers.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Those big moments in the documentary really just made it
so moving and so powerful, And I think I just
also wanted to know, are there any other specific moments
in the victim's journey that reallysated with you, as like
the filmmaker, the director.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So much of it, I mean, even filming the dancing
with y'all, I think was really special for me.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
That was new because it felt.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Like a way to explore emotion in a context outside
of an interview setting and this is your language, right,
and to capture a feeling on film that's unspoken, I
think is really rare. And the fact that we were
able to do that, I was really proud of those sequences.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
It wasn't just for style.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
We all felt from the beginning that that was going
to be a way to tell the story, and I
think we were able to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I cannot listen to Francis in the Light see her
out without getting emotional because of that sequence that was
edited so beautifully at the end of episode three. That
was this compilation of the dancers and all this emotion,
and every time the song comes on, I just I
feel it all. I can see the visual so perfect,
(14:00):
and I think it was just this moment that for us,
having gone through this process for two years and building
the relationships and friendships with people, and to have a
little bit of a positive, uplifting moment or something that
felt hopeful, regardless of whether the result was what we
wanted it to be, just a huge testament to you.
(14:23):
And I know that you spent a lot of time
making sure that that scene was done right, and so
huge kudos to you on really implementing that emotion that
those dance sequences were meant to bring out in the
way that you could storytell.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
It was really beautifully.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Done and really well edited from you and the editing team.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
So that a couple of things.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
One with the dancers, Cleay, you'll remember this, like we
were throwing curveballs everybody like that. You know, everyone I
think has the music that they're used to dancing to,
and I know Kevin can just dance at anything, but
I was like, I'm going to just throw some weird
shit at John and see how I But it was
more of like I want to capture some of the
emotion that I've been feeling when I listened to your
story and while I'm in the edit room, and I
(15:07):
want to see if that stirs up anything in the
way that you move your body and if you're going
to react to that in any kind of different way,
And we would talk about this is where this dance
might go, right, this is how we might use it.
These are some of the things that you said in
your interview that this footage might cover, So think about
some of that as you're dancing.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And so that was part of it, and that.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Scene that you were talking about specifically at the end
of the show, Jess, we cut that early on because
that was cut to mel dancing in the ring, which
was one of the first things we shot, and so
we got excited about the footage and we edited it
to that song very early, and we wanted to end
episode one with it, and people were looking at it like, guys,
this is the end of your whole show.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
You can't put this in episode one. This has to
be the end of the show. So we kind of
knew were.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Like, okay, okay, and I was just I was like excited,
So I wanted to put it earlier, and so we
kind of knew, like, this is an emotional thing that
we know we can build to regardless of what happens,
we know that there's this cathartic moment that we hope
we can earn, and ultimately we did.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
But yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I mean, I agree in that music has always held
a special place in my heart and I'm glad that
we found a place for it and that it resonated
so much.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So powerful Khalia. When it came to the dance sequences,
we actually had a shoot kind of a test for
the network, because it is unique when you're pitching that
these dance sequences are going to help us with the storytelling.
It was it was different for them, So we did
that as a test, and we actually did it right
after Mel's interview, and so there was a lot of
(16:37):
emotion happening and she was just such a trooper and
we ran out into a street in downtown and it's
pouring rain, and she was just a champ. And when
he said that we edited at early for the audience.
It was kind of our test shoot, and then we
realized how incredibly powerful it was.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And also just from like a stylistic standpoint, I think
when we are envisioning the dancing early on in the
conceptual phases, we were originally budgeting for like bigger, like
music video style shoots, almost with like bigger crew, more lights,
you know, something that was more choreographed. And then when
we did that test, we were like, oh, no, this
(17:18):
is right. We can keep the small team. We don't
need to put a lot of money on the screen,
so to speak. We don't need it to look and
feel big. It's better if it's raw and emotional and
the audience can feel that rawness. Let the lights be
in the shot, you.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Know what I mean. Let the camera just rove around and.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Let the lights be in the shot, find locations that
really speak to the emotion of the moment and the scene,
and let the dancing shine and the emotion shine.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
And that was empowering because it allowed us to i think,
shooting more.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Of it than we had originally conceived, and for it
to become more of the cinematic language.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
And yeah, proud of that.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
When we returned the conclusion of our conversation with Derek,
this is forgive me for I have followed.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Here's the conclusion of our conversation with Derek DONI. Were
there any films or cinematic styles that influence Dancing for
the Devil.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
You know, I'm sort of all over the map stylistically
when it comes to influences, and I tend to work
with filmmakers who straddle both worlds, scripted and unscripted as
much as possible. Obviously, Jess and her company they do
a lot of scripted work. Our lead editor, Parker cut
scripted movies. He cut sings saying this really beautiful eighty
twenty four film that just came out. The dps that
(18:39):
I like to work with come from both worlds as well,
so I tend to try and bring that language into
what we do in documentary.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
As raw and real as it is, it's also entertainment.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Saw some people saying on Twitter that some of those
scenes felt like they could have been scenes from a
scripted movie, and I'm proud of that, right Like, I
think that's by design. Even if we don't have the
crew and the resources, we really are careful about how
we frame everything and what the language of this is
going to be. This is something where we wanted to
feel really intimate and personal and that we were in
(19:11):
your life and experiencing it alongside you.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
That's something else too. I appreciated about you, Derek was
that you were always willing to like shift and evolve.
And again with the dancing for example, originally we had
like a fogger when we were filming with Kevin, and
when Kevin is doing what he does, which he's so
incredibly talented. You know, we're in this kind of dirt
area in downtown Los Angeles and he's just kicking up
(19:36):
the dirt as he's moving and Derek, I remember you
kind of shifting and being like, I want to capture
this because this is authentic and it's real, and it
was creating the vision of what we thought we would
want to get with a smoker, which is that.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
What is that called hazer? That's the word.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Hazer there it is. But no, it was memorable for
me that scene when Kevin's dancing in the dirt, and
I do have to just say, Derek, thank you so
much because I learned so much from you in this process,
like the patients that you have in verite and letting
a scene just play out and like he was saying,
he would just set up the sticks and just let
(20:12):
it run. And for me, I'm very thankful because I
learned so much from you and how you are as
a filmmaker, you getting in there, which were very similar
in this way. You are running sound, you're running camera,
you're in the edit, you're doing it all. And being
able to see someone's vision come to life and it
be received the way that it did just made me happy.
(20:35):
And I know it wasn't always easy for us because
it was so real and there was a lot of
emotion and feelings and timelines and all of that still
comes into place. But thank you for just being a
great partner in this process and teaching me.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Yeah, yeah, thank you. And it goes both ways for me.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
It's like, you know, it's always about finding collaborators that
will fight for the integrity of the thing we're trying
to do, and you had that your company and Dirty
Robber as well. It's like, we're not a big team,
we're really really small, and so it's just essential that
we all are on the same page about what we're
trying to create and what we're trying to say, and
(21:14):
that we're not going to let it out of our
hands until we get there. And often that means a
lot of failure and trying things and knowing that you know,
we're going to learn more from the stuff that's not
working than the stuff it is, and that's just part
of the process and trusting that process. And you're talking
about those like three hour Verita scenes that we're filming.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Often I'll just set.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Up the camera and I'll like, I'll walk away for
a while, you know, I'll just get my shot because
I don't want it to feel like we're in there
manipulating what's really happening. It's about trusting that we're going
to get the coverage in the three hours, and ultimately
that three hours is going to be cut down into
three minutes or less. And so yeah, I learned a
lot too, And I'm really really grateful for our team,
(21:53):
but mostly for Ukallea, mostly for y'all for again just
trusting us, because it would have been a lot easier.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
To say no. You know, it would have been a
lot of years say I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Doing this healing on my own without you, who I
just met like that, That would have been a much
easier response.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Honestly, a little bit in hindsight, I could say saying
yes was the easier option because I was.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Able to like move in community and kind.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Of be thrust into a place where I had to
confront the things now versus later down the line.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
But that's scary. Was that scary for you?
Speaker 5 (22:25):
It was scary at the time.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I think there was a moment when Aubrey was like
we in a cult, like even be able to admit that,
and then like I think a week later I met Jessica,
things were happening rapidly.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
So for me, it really helped my healing.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Process to be able to like accept like, this is
what I went through, this is my story to tell,
and this is what I want to do moving forward,
and like even coming and being able to create this
podcast for me is such an amazing opportunity to work
through the issues that came up, you know, while filming,
while going through the Chicaina and seven M situation. So
I do appreciate having this as an outlet and the
(23:00):
fact that I said yes to take it up.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
I'm like so grateful that I did.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Because it's been able to help not only me, but
other people in this situation and situations really similar to it.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I know when I'm trying to process something, the easy
thing to do is to move past it. I like
tend to put a lot of my energy into my work,
into my family, and I think your instinct is to
just kind of say, I'll get to that later, Like
here's the thing I know I'm good at, you know,
like making the movies or being a dad or whatever. Right,
and so yeah, to say yes to something that you
(23:32):
know is going to force you to confront a lot
of these tough truths is the hardest thing to do.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
So incredible, brieverin strength that it took to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Thank you, absolutely agree and for you, Derek, after creating
the documentary series, what words of encouragement or advice would
you like to offer any individual who might be involved
in a cult like environment or a high controlled group.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
I mean, hopefully watching this you can take from the
strength of Cleia and Kevin, Aubrey, Kylie, mel Priscilla, everybody,
even the parents you know who, many of whom are
still living this nightmare right that they were able to
find the strength to leave and that they're thriving outside
of the group. You know, I think so much of
(24:19):
what we see in the show and what I experienced
is that there's this incredible fear that if you leave,
terrible things are going to happen, because that's what's instilled
into you, that all of this proceved success that you
might be having is going to go away, the money
that you think you're earning is going to go away.
The terrible things are going to happen to your family
that you're going to go to hell. You know that
(24:39):
God will not look down on you favorably anymore. You know,
hopefully if you're in a relationship that's in a cycle
of abuse, you can also find strength in this.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It doesn't have to be a high control group. It
could be one person who sort of has control over
you that you can find the strength and the victims
in our show that we're able to walk away and
still find joy and happy and rediscover themselves and their
passions and their joy for life that you can do
the same thing. I'm still moved and inspired by the
(25:08):
courage y'all showed in doing that, and now seeing what
y'all are doing is like incredible. You know, you've really
come so far just the time that we were filming
and now beyond that, it just continues to grow. As
you've said at the beginning, like this story is not
over and that's life, right, these things live with us
and we continue to grow and evolve and change, and
seeing how far y'all have come is like it's sinsane.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
That was my hope making mess that people could take
from some of that strength and be inspired in their
own lives.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
As we talked about in this episode, the stories not done.
There are still people that are under the control of
this organization that are still a part of Chokina in
seven M and there's a lot that's happening behind the scenes.
There is multiple lawsuits happening. The parents are still very
much fighting for their daughter. We know that law enforcement
(26:07):
is looking into this, so we can only say so
much on the podcast because there is so much happening actively.
We don't want to stop providing a platform for people
to come forward when they are ready to share their
experience and for the audience. If you have additional questions
or you want to engage with us in this conversation
about seven M and Shakaina, please do send us an
(26:30):
email at Forgive Me pod at gmail dot com, and
we hope that in one of our episodes we can
help answer some of those questions that we receive.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
If you found this conversation valuable. Please subscribe, rate, and
leave a review. Your support helps us reach more listeners
and share these very important stories.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
We wish Derek all the best in his future projects
cannot wait to work with him again. We are truly
grateful for his remarkable work on this project and for
taking the time to chat with us today. If you
haven't watched Dancing for the Devil, the Seven and Them
TikTok Cult yet, be sure to check it out streaming
now on Netflix. This has been Forgive Me For I
Have Followed. We'll be back next week.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is a production from
WV Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael tore podcast Network,
hosted by me Khalia Gray and me Jess cosobetto Forgive
Me For I Have Followed is produced by Aaron Burlson
and Sophie Spencer Zabos. Our executive producers are Khalia Gray, myself,
Wilmar Balderama, Leo Klam and Aaron Burlison at WV Sound.
(27:29):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
See you next week, See you next week,
There would it be no audience, There would be no
success without you trusting us, without you being brave enough
to be vulnerable on camera and share your story. So
the fact that you feel like we did it right,
we did it with respect and reverence for you, and
that it felt redemptive for you, and that to me
means more than anything.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. I'm
Jessica Osibeto, executive producer of the Netflix series Dancing for
the Double The Seven M TikTok Cult. This documentary series
explored the story of Robert Chin, the La based Chakaina
Church and Seven M Films. Chin founded Chakina Church over
two decades ago before establishing seven M Films and is
named in a civil lawsuit alleging abuse and cult like behavior.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
And I'm Cleah Gray, former member of Chakina Church and
Seven M Films.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
In this episode, we sit down with Derek Doodein, the
director of the Netflix documentary Dancing for the Devil the
Seven M TikTok Cult. Derek shares his journey and bringing
the story of Kind and seven M to life, emphasizing
the importance of telling it from the perspective of former members.
He also discusses the cinematic influence that shape the visual
style of the series.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Derek explains how the documentary aims to support those facing
similar struggles and highlights the significant efforts his team undertook,
including a trip to Korea to capture an emotional conversation
between the Lease sisters.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It was really good to see him. I feel like
I hadn't seen him in a while. When you're used
to seeing someone every single day for two years and
then you don't see them for a month or two,
it just feels like a really, really long time. So
I'm so thankful to have had the opportunity to catch
up now.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
Our conversation with Derek Donan, director of Dancing for the Devil.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Derek, welcome and thank you so much for joining us today.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
Stoked to be here, ladies, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (01:58):
We haven't spoken since the documentary came out.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I know you have a lot of other projects going
on right now, so I really appreciate you carving this
time out for us. One of the things I wanted
to know was what initially drew you to the seven
M documentary.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
When that initial Rolling Stone story broke, it spread like wildfires.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
You know, you were living it Clea And on our side,
I'm always.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Looking for projects that have a lot of heart, that
feel urgent, that are unfolding in real time if and
when possible, and this sort of ticks those boxes. And
then it was very quickly announced that HBO was doing it,
and Chrissy Tagan was involved, There's a whole other film team,
and so you know, I didn't even really think that
it could be a possibility. But little did I know
that Jess in the background had already been working on it.
(02:44):
And so when it came to me through Jess and Netflix,
it felt like something I could really sink my teeth into.
It felt like there was an opportunity to travel into
the genre in a way that felt fresh. These projects,
from what I have seen, tend to focus on the
cult leader, and you know, Robert has a similar playbook,
(03:04):
and it didn't feel like he needed any more shine.
And so it was like, let's give the audience the
context that's necessary to understand the journey of the subjects,
but really center the victim stories and let the experience
of what it feels like to come out of a
group like this and to lose somebody into a group.
You know that that felt like a fresh perspective and
one that was unresolved, you know, one that I felt like,
(03:26):
through our filmmaking process, perhaps we could help some of
the people as they go through their journey and we
could see a real transformation happening in real time in
front of the screen.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
And that's a rare opportunity.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
I can't imagine having done this project with anyone else
but you, Derek, and I'm so thankful. And I know
there was a lot of challenges for us along the
way because we were dealing with all of this in
real time. What challenges and rewards did you feel that
you experienced the most well filming and the process of making.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
This trying to understand the complexities of what everyone was
going through in real time. There were so many different
people going through so much. Really sort of experiencing trauma
in real time, processing their trauma in real time and
asking somebody to do that on camera for an audience
of millions of people is a really sensitive, delicate ask,
(04:21):
and it's one that we took very seriously. And so
there were so many conversations that we were having with
each other with the subjects, with subjects who aren't even
in the show, behind the scenes all the time, really
just trying to understand where they were and whether we
felt okay, whether they felt okay sharing their story. I
think often going through this process can be cathartic, It
(04:44):
can help healing.
Speaker 4 (04:45):
I've seen it before.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
But we didn't ever want to put somebody in a
position that compromised their mental health, their safety, their integrity,
and so that was a constant conversation and concern of ours,
you know, so trying to navigate those bigger picture things
with the ever changing nature of the story, fears of
any sort of retaliation what Robert and people in the
(05:09):
church might be thinking or doing to us or the subjects,
in addition to just making sure we're.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
There right with cameras in all the right moments.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
And often it was just a you know, three person crew, right,
and so we didn't have you know, tons of support
when it came to.
Speaker 4 (05:24):
Planning and executing these shoots. So it was really just the.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Small team of us that were wearing all the hats.
I mean, that's like you know, typical and doc filmmaking,
and we had to stay on schedule. You know and
deliver a show, and we didn't know what the ending
was going to be, right. We were hopeful, you know,
Miranda would get out, right, Nick would get out, but
we weren't sure, and so we had to sort of
always plan around with contingencies and all the while do
so centering the subjects well being and still come out
(05:49):
with something that we were really proud of.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
When we talk about not knowing where the story was going,
it's not just about the end. In the third episode
when we started this process, you guys were still in there.
The dancer were still in there, right, Alicia was still
in there.
Speaker 5 (06:03):
So we were.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Really in the beginning molding as we were very hopeful
of what could potentially happen. But that idea that you
were a part of this from the beginning, I mean
we were, Derek how lot months in before that happened.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I feel like, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
With other projects, is this the first one that you've
had to deal with like a project in real time?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Like this the first I think in a series.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
And I got to give Netflix a little credit for
believing in us and believing that we will find our
way because you see it sometimes in feature docs where
I think there's a little less schedule pressure and you
have a little bit more malleability in the budget and schedule,
but you don't see it as much in series. Typically,
executives like to know what the ending's going to be,
(06:48):
and I've pitched stuff where they're like, we love the story,
but it's too uncertain. We don't know what's going to happen,
and we can't bank on anything, and so we're.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
Going to pass.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
And so you have to have them believe that one
way or the other we would be able to resolve
the story for the audience. I actually think in a
lot of ways it drove some of the success of
the show, and that the audience felt like they were
coming into it feeling like they could participate in some
way and try and affect some change. Sadly, we still
haven't seen much, but we're hopeful.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
In the lawsuit, that's very true. And also speaking of
the success, it did so well. The documentary was what
number one for however many weeks on Netflix?
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Yeah, more than two weeks.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Yeah, I know, especially being on the other end, like
how difficult it was for one us to confront these
very fresh things and just like the pain associated with
having to cut ties with people that many of us
have known for.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Years and leaving a very.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Dangerous environment, I would say, And for you guys to
have to deal with like our emotions and the things
that we were processing, and to still put out a
work that you put out, how well put together, how
beautifully thought out. I feel like a lot of our
story we're told in a great light. It really felt
like a redemption story for us. So thank you guys.
It has helped us and a lot of the other people,
even the ones who didn't go on camera, they really
(08:09):
appreciated the fact that it was out for the world
to see.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
There would be no audience, there would be no success
without you trusting us, without you being brave enough to
be vulnerable on camera and share your story. So the
fact that you feel like we did it right, we
did it with respect and reverence for you, and that
it felt redemptive for you, that to me means more
than anything any award, any numbers, any success of the show.
That we honored you and in your story means the most.
(08:34):
So yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Absolutely agree and with this process as well, Khalia. You know,
there was a lot of decisions that were being made
obviously in real time, and it was shifting, and the
timeline was also much longer than I think we anticipated.
So Derek a lot of times was picking up the
camera and he was running in and we're picking up
additional interviews because it is something that was so honest
(08:56):
and real, and with that obviously comes struggles with when
opportunities come up. And one of the things that I
wanted to talk a little bit about was Derek when
we traveled to Korea with the Lee sisters. So for
those that haven't seen the documentary, the Lee sisters are
Melanie Lee and Priscilla Lee, who also goes by Alisha
(09:17):
Priscilla Lee. They were both a big focus of the
documentary and the earlier days of Chicaina or as sometimes
as Kale and I referenced Chakaina one point zero.
Speaker 5 (09:29):
Can you share a.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Little bit, Derek about why that was so important for
us to travel to Korea to capture the Lee sisters
together and what that heart wrenching moment was like of
the reconciliation between the two.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, and it should be worth noting for the audience
that that conversation in case there's any confusion, because we
don't explicitly say it in the show that the conversation
between Mel and Priscilla at the tea house that happened
in Korea on the trip to Korea, and it was
one that we knew was coming, we just didn't know
when it was going to happen. There's the scene where
(10:06):
they sit down in the back of Mel's house to talk,
and we had sort of anticipated that being the conversation
where the damn breaks open and they start sharing all
of these experiences and emotions and things that had happened
over the last ten years where they hadn't been in touch.
It was one of the first times that they were
really sort of coming together to try and do that,
and as you see in the show, it was really
(10:28):
awkward and it was a learning process for me. I
think as a filmmaker. I think coming into this, there
was this perception that, you know, when you get out
of something like this, that you're just so happy to
have your freedom and to reconnect with your family, and
that you can sort of start the process very quickly
of returning to normal, And I think seeing that conversation
(10:48):
really showed me how hard it can be and how
long of a road it is. To repair those relationships
and to repair yourself. So we knew that conversation, and
I imagine more have happened since we knew what conversations
like that were coming, and we were having conversations separately
with Mel and Priscilla as to whether they'd had any
conversations like that, whether they were starting to feel more comfortable,
(11:09):
because we wanted to be there, and so it didn't
happen by accident.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
It wasn't planned. We didn't go there to have it,
but we figured.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It was hard to do in Los Angeles in the
environment that they were in because when they were getting
together often it was so that Priscilla could babysit. They
weren't going to have that conversation in front of Mel's daughter,
in front of her family, like it felt like it
had to be something very personal. And so when this
trip came up, and when they said we're going to
go back and try and sort of confront our parents
(11:38):
and go back to where this all started, Justin and
I looked at each other like, that's where this is
going to happen, right away from the pressures of daily life.
And I think where a lot of the trouble started.
I think that sort of led them to be in
a vulnerable enough place to where when someone like Robert
came knocking, it felt like a really good idea to
them at the time. I think that all started from
their upbringing in Korea and a lot of the instability
(12:00):
they had at home with their parents, and they wanted
to go confront their parents. So it felt really important
to just be there for that and be by their
side for the entirety of that trip if we could.
The fact that, again that both of them allowed us
to be there for something that was really challenging and vulnerable,
I'm just really grateful for that, and I think it
inspired and moved a whole lot of people.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
After the break, we continue our conversation with Derek Doning.
This is forgive me for I have followed. We'll be
right back.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed. Now
back to our conversation with Derek Doninge.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
I know for me and a couple of the other
dancers that the big moment for us in the documentary
was when they served Robert his papers.
Speaker 5 (12:44):
That was the one that we all got a call
was like, did you see the part when they ran
in the restaurant and served the papers.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Those big moments in the documentary really just made it
so moving and so powerful, And I think I just
also wanted to know, are there any other specific moments
in the victim's journey that reallysated with you, as like
the filmmaker, the director.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
So much of it, I mean, even filming the dancing
with y'all, I think was really special for me.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
That was new because it felt.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
Like a way to explore emotion in a context outside
of an interview setting and this is your language, right,
and to capture a feeling on film that's unspoken, I
think is really rare. And the fact that we were
able to do that, I was really proud of those sequences.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
It wasn't just for style.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
We all felt from the beginning that that was going
to be a way to tell the story, and I
think we were able to do that.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
I cannot listen to Francis in the Light see her
out without getting emotional because of that sequence that was
edited so beautifully at the end of episode three. That
was this compilation of the dancers and all this emotion,
and every time the song comes on, I just I
feel it all. I can see the visual so perfect,
(14:00):
and I think it was just this moment that for us,
having gone through this process for two years and building
the relationships and friendships with people, and to have a
little bit of a positive, uplifting moment or something that
felt hopeful, regardless of whether the result was what we
wanted it to be, just a huge testament to you.
(14:23):
And I know that you spent a lot of time
making sure that that scene was done right, and so
huge kudos to you on really implementing that emotion that
those dance sequences were meant to bring out in the
way that you could storytell.
Speaker 5 (14:38):
It was really beautifully.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Done and really well edited from you and the editing team.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
So that a couple of things.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
One with the dancers, Cleay, you'll remember this, like we
were throwing curveballs everybody like that. You know, everyone I
think has the music that they're used to dancing to,
and I know Kevin can just dance at anything, but
I was like, I'm going to just throw some weird
shit at John and see how I But it was
more of like I want to capture some of the
emotion that I've been feeling when I listened to your
story and while I'm in the edit room, and I
(15:07):
want to see if that stirs up anything in the
way that you move your body and if you're going
to react to that in any kind of different way,
And we would talk about this is where this dance
might go, right, this is how we might use it.
These are some of the things that you said in
your interview that this footage might cover, So think about
some of that as you're dancing.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
And so that was part of it, and that.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Scene that you were talking about specifically at the end
of the show, Jess, we cut that early on because
that was cut to mel dancing in the ring, which
was one of the first things we shot, and so
we got excited about the footage and we edited it
to that song very early, and we wanted to end
episode one with it, and people were looking at it like, guys,
this is the end of your whole show.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
You can't put this in episode one. This has to
be the end of the show. So we kind of
knew were.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Like, okay, okay, and I was just I was like excited,
So I wanted to put it earlier, and so we
kind of knew, like, this is an emotional thing that
we know we can build to regardless of what happens,
we know that there's this cathartic moment that we hope
we can earn, and ultimately we did.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
But yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
I mean, I agree in that music has always held
a special place in my heart and I'm glad that
we found a place for it and that it resonated
so much.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
So powerful Khalia. When it came to the dance sequences,
we actually had a shoot kind of a test for
the network, because it is unique when you're pitching that
these dance sequences are going to help us with the storytelling.
It was it was different for them, So we did
that as a test, and we actually did it right
after Mel's interview, and so there was a lot of
(16:37):
emotion happening and she was just such a trooper and
we ran out into a street in downtown and it's
pouring rain, and she was just a champ. And when
he said that we edited at early for the audience.
It was kind of our test shoot, and then we
realized how incredibly powerful it was.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
And also just from like a stylistic standpoint, I think
when we are envisioning the dancing early on in the
conceptual phases, we were originally budgeting for like bigger, like
music video style shoots, almost with like bigger crew, more lights,
you know, something that was more choreographed. And then when
we did that test, we were like, oh, no, this
(17:18):
is right. We can keep the small team. We don't
need to put a lot of money on the screen,
so to speak. We don't need it to look and
feel big. It's better if it's raw and emotional and
the audience can feel that rawness. Let the lights be
in the shot, you.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Know what I mean. Let the camera just rove around and.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Let the lights be in the shot, find locations that
really speak to the emotion of the moment and the scene,
and let the dancing shine and the emotion shine.
Speaker 4 (17:43):
And that was empowering because it allowed us to i think,
shooting more.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Of it than we had originally conceived, and for it
to become more of the cinematic language.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
And yeah, proud of that.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
When we returned the conclusion of our conversation with Derek,
this is forgive me for I have followed.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
Welcome back to forgive me for I have followed.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
Here's the conclusion of our conversation with Derek DONI. Were
there any films or cinematic styles that influence Dancing for
the Devil.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
You know, I'm sort of all over the map stylistically
when it comes to influences, and I tend to work
with filmmakers who straddle both worlds, scripted and unscripted as
much as possible. Obviously, Jess and her company they do
a lot of scripted work. Our lead editor, Parker cut
scripted movies. He cut sings saying this really beautiful eighty
twenty four film that just came out. The dps that
(18:39):
I like to work with come from both worlds as well,
so I tend to try and bring that language into
what we do in documentary.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
As raw and real as it is, it's also entertainment.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Saw some people saying on Twitter that some of those
scenes felt like they could have been scenes from a
scripted movie, and I'm proud of that, right Like, I
think that's by design. Even if we don't have the
crew and the resources, we really are careful about how
we frame everything and what the language of this is
going to be. This is something where we wanted to
feel really intimate and personal and that we were in
(19:11):
your life and experiencing it alongside you.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
That's something else too. I appreciated about you, Derek was
that you were always willing to like shift and evolve.
And again with the dancing for example, originally we had
like a fogger when we were filming with Kevin, and
when Kevin is doing what he does, which he's so
incredibly talented. You know, we're in this kind of dirt
area in downtown Los Angeles and he's just kicking up
(19:36):
the dirt as he's moving and Derek, I remember you
kind of shifting and being like, I want to capture
this because this is authentic and it's real, and it
was creating the vision of what we thought we would
want to get with a smoker, which is that.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
What is that called hazer? That's the word.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Hazer there it is. But no, it was memorable for
me that scene when Kevin's dancing in the dirt, and
I do have to just say, Derek, thank you so
much because I learned so much from you in this process,
like the patients that you have in verite and letting
a scene just play out and like he was saying,
he would just set up the sticks and just let
(20:12):
it run. And for me, I'm very thankful because I
learned so much from you and how you are as
a filmmaker, you getting in there, which were very similar
in this way. You are running sound, you're running camera,
you're in the edit, you're doing it all. And being
able to see someone's vision come to life and it
be received the way that it did just made me happy.
(20:35):
And I know it wasn't always easy for us because
it was so real and there was a lot of
emotion and feelings and timelines and all of that still
comes into place. But thank you for just being a
great partner in this process and teaching me.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Yeah, yeah, thank you. And it goes both ways for me.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
It's like, you know, it's always about finding collaborators that
will fight for the integrity of the thing we're trying
to do, and you had that your company and Dirty
Robber as well. It's like, we're not a big team,
we're really really small, and so it's just essential that
we all are on the same page about what we're
trying to create and what we're trying to say, and
(21:14):
that we're not going to let it out of our
hands until we get there. And often that means a
lot of failure and trying things and knowing that you know,
we're going to learn more from the stuff that's not
working than the stuff it is, and that's just part
of the process and trusting that process. And you're talking
about those like three hour Verita scenes that we're filming.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Often I'll just set.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Up the camera and I'll like, I'll walk away for
a while, you know, I'll just get my shot because
I don't want it to feel like we're in there
manipulating what's really happening. It's about trusting that we're going
to get the coverage in the three hours, and ultimately
that three hours is going to be cut down into
three minutes or less. And so yeah, I learned a
lot too, And I'm really really grateful for our team,
(21:53):
but mostly for Ukallea, mostly for y'all for again just
trusting us, because it would have been a lot easier.
Speaker 4 (21:58):
To say no. You know, it would have been a
lot of years say I'm.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Doing this healing on my own without you, who I
just met like that, That would have been a much
easier response.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
Honestly, a little bit in hindsight, I could say saying
yes was the easier option because I was.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
Able to like move in community and kind.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Of be thrust into a place where I had to
confront the things now versus later down the line.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
But that's scary. Was that scary for you?
Speaker 5 (22:25):
It was scary at the time.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
I think there was a moment when Aubrey was like
we in a cult, like even be able to admit that,
and then like I think a week later I met Jessica,
things were happening rapidly.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
So for me, it really helped my healing.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Process to be able to like accept like, this is
what I went through, this is my story to tell,
and this is what I want to do moving forward,
and like even coming and being able to create this
podcast for me is such an amazing opportunity to work
through the issues that came up, you know, while filming,
while going through the Chicaina and seven M situation. So
I do appreciate having this as an outlet and the
(23:00):
fact that I said yes to take it up.
Speaker 5 (23:01):
I'm like so grateful that I did.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Because it's been able to help not only me, but
other people in this situation and situations really similar to it.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I know when I'm trying to process something, the easy
thing to do is to move past it. I like
tend to put a lot of my energy into my work,
into my family, and I think your instinct is to
just kind of say, I'll get to that later, Like
here's the thing I know I'm good at, you know,
like making the movies or being a dad or whatever. Right,
and so yeah, to say yes to something that you
(23:32):
know is going to force you to confront a lot
of these tough truths is the hardest thing to do.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
So incredible, brieverin strength that it took to do that.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Thank you, absolutely agree and for you, Derek, after creating
the documentary series, what words of encouragement or advice would
you like to offer any individual who might be involved
in a cult like environment or a high controlled group.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
I mean, hopefully watching this you can take from the
strength of Cleia and Kevin, Aubrey, Kylie, mel Priscilla, everybody,
even the parents you know who, many of whom are
still living this nightmare right that they were able to
find the strength to leave and that they're thriving outside
of the group. You know, I think so much of
(24:19):
what we see in the show and what I experienced
is that there's this incredible fear that if you leave,
terrible things are going to happen, because that's what's instilled
into you, that all of this proceved success that you
might be having is going to go away, the money
that you think you're earning is going to go away.
The terrible things are going to happen to your family
that you're going to go to hell. You know that
(24:39):
God will not look down on you favorably anymore. You know,
hopefully if you're in a relationship that's in a cycle
of abuse, you can also find strength in this.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
It doesn't have to be a high control group. It
could be one person who sort of has control over
you that you can find the strength and the victims
in our show that we're able to walk away and
still find joy and happy and rediscover themselves and their
passions and their joy for life that you can do
the same thing. I'm still moved and inspired by the
(25:08):
courage y'all showed in doing that, and now seeing what
y'all are doing is like incredible. You know, you've really
come so far just the time that we were filming
and now beyond that, it just continues to grow. As
you've said at the beginning, like this story is not
over and that's life, right, these things live with us
and we continue to grow and evolve and change, and
seeing how far y'all have come is like it's sinsane.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
That was my hope making mess that people could take
from some of that strength and be inspired in their
own lives.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
As we talked about in this episode, the stories not done.
There are still people that are under the control of
this organization that are still a part of Chokina in
seven M and there's a lot that's happening behind the scenes.
There is multiple lawsuits happening. The parents are still very
much fighting for their daughter. We know that law enforcement
(26:07):
is looking into this, so we can only say so
much on the podcast because there is so much happening actively.
We don't want to stop providing a platform for people
to come forward when they are ready to share their
experience and for the audience. If you have additional questions
or you want to engage with us in this conversation
about seven M and Shakaina, please do send us an
(26:30):
email at Forgive Me pod at gmail dot com, and
we hope that in one of our episodes we can
help answer some of those questions that we receive.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
If you found this conversation valuable. Please subscribe, rate, and
leave a review. Your support helps us reach more listeners
and share these very important stories.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
We wish Derek all the best in his future projects
cannot wait to work with him again. We are truly
grateful for his remarkable work on this project and for
taking the time to chat with us today. If you
haven't watched Dancing for the Devil, the Seven and Them
TikTok Cult yet, be sure to check it out streaming
now on Netflix. This has been Forgive Me For I
Have Followed. We'll be back next week.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is a production from
WV Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael tore podcast Network,
hosted by me Khalia Gray and me Jess cosobetto Forgive
Me For I Have Followed is produced by Aaron Burlson
and Sophie Spencer Zabos. Our executive producers are Khalia Gray, myself,
Wilmar Balderama, Leo Klam and Aaron Burlison at WV Sound.
(27:29):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy. For more podcasts
from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 5 (27:42):
See you next week, See you next week,
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Acevedo
Kailea Gray
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