September 12, 2024 • 39 mins
The new podcast Forgive Me For I Have Followed builds on Netflix’s Dancing for the Devil, delving into the personal stories of those affected by Robert Shinn, Shekinah Church, and 7M Films. Shinn founded Shekinah Church in LA over two decades ago, before establishing 7M Films, and is named in a civil lawsuit alleging abuse and "cult-like" behavior.
In the premiere episode, co-host and former member Kailea Gray shares her personal perspective. Joined by co-host and Dancing for the Devil Executive Producer Jessica Acevedo, Kailea reflects on her and her now-husband's involvement with the church, how their lives have changed, and their journey moving forward.
*The following is based on actual events. Certain composite and representative materials and characters have been used for dramatic purposes.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
We're sitting in the pews and we're watching this man,
and we're like, this looks like someone who's guilty and
is panicking. This doesn't look like somebody who People are
making baseless claims off of.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi. I'm Jess Cosavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix
documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the Seven M TikTok Cult.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
And I'm Khalia Gray, current social media marketing consultant and
former member of seven M Films and Chicina Church.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to Forgive Me For I Have Followed. On this series,
we're embarking on a gripping journey into the hidden and
harrowing truths behind high controlled groups and shedding light on
stories from those whose lives and careers have been impacted
by it.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Through powerful, in depth interviews with former members and new,
chilling first hand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and
extremely necessary perspectives.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is more than an exploration.
It's a platform highlighting untold stories and driving for the
possibility of healing. And with that said, let's dive into
the show. Chicaina Church is a southern California based religious
(01:26):
organization founded by Robert Schin in the nineteen nineties. This
religious group's focus was to raise up leaders and follow
the Gospel for prosperity. As the years went on and
the church expanded its outreach, allegations of isolation, abuse, and
defraud arose. A couple of years ago, Robert and his
wife Hannah started seven M Films, a talent management company
that helped primarily TikTok dancers grow their careers while inviting
(01:49):
them to Chakaina Church, and in twenty twenty two, an
Instagram live from one of the member's family pushed this
church into the limelight even further. In the summer of
twenty twenty four, after the release of the Netflix DOCKU
series Dancing for the Devil, the seven M TikTok Call
Chicaina Church and seven M have faced significant public scrutiny.
The series alleges that their CEO, Robert Shin, ran a
(02:11):
cult through seven M Films in Chicino Church, where he
claims he no longer serves as pastor, However, it has
been speculated he remains on the pulpit. Shin is accused
of sexual harassment, fraud, and forced labor by former church
members and TikTok dancers under his management company. In this
premiere episode, we are going to start from my co
host Kaliah Gray's perspective as she provides a personal account
(02:33):
of her involvement with the church and seven M Films.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Here's Khalia, I'm going to take you through my story
and how my pandemic romance became my husband.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
We had hopes of moving to la and we did it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I thought hanging out with influencer friends was something I
would be doing all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I went to a.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Dinner party where all of a sudden, Bibles rippled out.
I moved into a house that I thought was a
deal and started making contact with my friends.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
My boyfriend and I were going to a church with
our friends.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
We had assigned seats, we had separate study groups, and
we were making a life for ourselves. But then I
kept noticing some things about the leader of the church, Robert.
Robert Schin, or the self proclaimed man of God.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
We'll be mentioned a lot in the podcast, and we'll talk.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
More about him later, but what you need to know
for now is a lot of the control and manipulation
is believed to have stemmed from Robert and his teachings.
We're going to pick up months after that, when I
was first meeting Jessica, producer of the docuseries and my
co host, for the first time in a fush shop
in Vegas, after I had left the church and friends behind.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Who stayed here is jess just first and foremost was
sitting here right now. It is like kind of crazy
to just think that a little over a year ago,
I flew to Vegas to see my family and piggybacked
the opportunity to meet with you, and I just remember
I felt like, so, well, one, let me go back.
(03:52):
I think that when we saw that you guys had
gotten out of the church, I think there was all
of these questions whether or not it was real, or
whether or not it was something that was just like
being put out there to throw us off. And so
we just had our guard up, and me in particular
going to meet with you, I know, we had like
signed NDAs, like we were both very much like, yeah,
what's going to happen? And so we met in a
(04:14):
little shopping center in public, as you should do when
you meet with a stranger, and I was really nervous,
So I think I ordered a drink and we just
got to chatting. And I think that that conversation, which
I thought was maybe going to be forty five minutes,
I remember we were going for hours and Kevin was
like hitting you up, being like are you okay?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
What's happening? So yeah, just to be here today and
like now be doing a podcast together and co hosting
this is such a full circle moment. Yeah, so thank
you for going on this journey with us.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I really appreciate first opportunity to tell the story with
the series. And I think going back to like when
we did first meet, Kevin might have had a job
in Vegas and he has family over there too, so
we were visiting family and everything was really confusing at
that point because we had just left. It really was
like Okay, after having people who I like trusted for
the last year or so of my life really come
(05:09):
to realize they're not people that I should trust.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's all.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was like, Okay, I don't know who to believe
and what's the truth. What is just like people that
want to take an opportunity to like have a story
and run with it, because then there's also like you know,
you hear those like horror stories of like not necessarily
horror stories, but people who make other documentaries that are like,
we just want to sell a story versus like, we
really want you to be able to tell your story.
(05:32):
So I think that was like what added to it.
But once we like sat down, like you said, I've
thought it was like a thirty forty five minute conversation,
but we sat at the fush shop and like you said,
look at.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Us now, one conversation has turned into a whole podcast.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
When we initially met last year, I'd say we were
probably like seven or eight months into the production process.
So when we had connected, of course it's like, one,
is it true? Did they actually leave? And second, it
was something that's so rare in documentary filmmaking that you
actually have the opportunity to sit down and talk with
people in real time as they're experiencing something, versus reflecting
(06:10):
on a time that they had been sarious right and
experienced it, which is still very very powerful. But I
think that's what made it so unique and maybe scary
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
It's even scary to think about because now it's like
where there's people who are saying that they've left and
having those same conversations where it's.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Like, did you really leave or is this a ploy?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So it's crazy that we're still in today's time having
to deal with the same feeling with people who were
involved and potentially still are involved.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
We are alive.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
So today is my sister's birthday and we're not allowed
to contact her and it's it's really sad because we're
blocked on absolutely everything and we really don't know why. However,
she's involved in she's got some kind of control over
(07:05):
her that is making her afraid of something.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Melanie Wilking, sister to one of the seven M dancers
Miranda Derek, went live on Instagram with her parents in
twenty twenty two. Miranda is still believed to be a
part of seven M Management and this Instagram live was
an attempt from her family to get a response from
the general public and Miranda. This was rapidly shared and
went viral and was the catalyst that exposed Chicina and
seven M Management. So how did Robert respond to that
(07:33):
Instagram live?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
There was more public attention drawn to it. One of
the things he had said was like, oh, so we're
going to disband the name of seven m Everyone's going
to put their own emails in their bios, so it
looks like we're not really a thing anymore. It looks
like we've disbanded, but really, behind the scenes, this is
what we're going to actually be doing. That's why I'm
really skeptical when I hear people saying like, no, we've left,
because I'm like, that was part of his plan essentially,
(07:58):
even when we were there, Like Okay, go and see
your family members, go and hang out with people, so.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
It doesn't look like you're involved.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It looks like you're separated from us, so you can,
you know, still have your career and you can still
like get brand deals, you could still make money, which is.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Interesting because I think since the doc was released, it's
fifty to fifty some people have really leaned in and
are like fully loyal. I know, I've been unfollowed by
a couple of the dancers that are still in there.
And then there's other people like Miranda who's come out
and done like a public statement about it, which for
me personally, I'm not fully sure she's actually seen the documentary.
(08:35):
Just based on her response, I'm like, it's an interesting
response based on someone that may have seen it, because
it really is coming from a place of love and
it's not meant to be destructive in any sort of way.
So that really does track.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Something that he has alluded to in some of his
sermons is like, well, when you're going against us, you're
going against God's children. So that's like you're going against
God directly. And so the way that he has presented
the rest of the world, I think to the people
in the congregation, it's like, I understand why you may
feel that way, because this man is like really telling
(09:09):
you to be scared of everybody else. I think it's
really just like the fear of like I'm going against
the heavens if I decide to do this, or even
just dislike concept of like loyalty.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I think that's something else that he may play on,
especially with like the men.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's like, Wow, that's your friend and your friends online
talking about you like that.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's crazy, because that's some things that we've heard.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Like even regarding Miranda's parents, even hearing them tell their
story from their side, it was easier to twist it
to be like, well, you don't really know them, so
let me tell you about them. Even Miranda being like, no,
that's not my truth. This is actually my side of
the story. So for me, I was like, well, I
know Miranda, so I'm gonna trust what Miranda is saying.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
When all of that was going down and her family
had went live, like Kylie had openly spoke about how
it affected Miranda. How is the response for you guys
from your side and knowing her and what's being said
about her pas parents.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Before I go on to tell you how Miranda reacted,
just mentioned Kylie.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
She was one of the dancers who was part of
seven M around the same time as me. You'll hear
more on this later this season.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
She could see, along with all of us, the impact
of the Wilkings live in the pews and in the pulpit.
It would be Robert in the pulpit, and we had
our unofficial official seats, so it was kind of like
a seating chart. There were like just you knew you
would sit here, and that's where you would sit every
time we would come in. But Miranda and I sat
near each other. It was actually Kevin me Miranda Beatash
(10:33):
and that's where our our unofficial official seats were. So
as Robert was talking I'm sitting next to Miranda and
she's affirming everything that he's saying, like, yeah, that's you know,
that's exactly it. So I think that's why I felt like, Okay,
he must have had the conversation with Miranda and he's
echoing like what she has.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Said, right, which is understandable, like you would just if
you're sitting next to a person and they're.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, fully agreeing like halleluvia, Amen, praise the Lord. Yes,
that's it and.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Asukay, yeah, than that person's obviously.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
It's their story. It's they must be Miranda's story with
her parents, and I think just.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Other times I've heard her mention it is like in
meetings and like they really really building up the story
of like my parents wanted to control me and they're
upset that they're not getting money from me anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
How did you get involved in seven M Films and
the Chicaina Church.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah, so, Kevi and I met in Sacramento. He had
moved back after being in.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
LA for a few years with his career, and he
had gotten a call from his longtime friend. Beatash James,
also known as Beatash, is an acclaimed dancer from LA
with a distinguished background in crunk. James was prominently featured
in seven m Content with My Husband Concrete and Aubrey,
who you'll hear more from in an upcoming episode, and
(11:49):
his wife is Miranda Wilking of the estranged Woking sisters,
featured in Dancing for the Devil. Beadash, who is to
the best of our knowledge, still involved with the church,
and he was there while when we were there the
whole time. But Beidash had given Kevin a call and
had said, you should come.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Out to LA.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I have a lot of like opportunities and things going
on that I want you to be a part of.
And this isn't out of the ordinary for their relationship,
as it's been told to me by Kevin, Like there's
been plenty of times where they call each other like, Hey,
I have this job come through and come check it out,
or I want you to be a part of this.
So it was very much like in the realm of
things that they've done in the past that have been
like lucrative really for their careers. As soon as we
(12:31):
got to La, you know, we went to go see
what Bidash was talking about, and he had showed Kevin
all of the people that he was involved with and
all the content that they were making and the brand
deals that they were getting, and was saying like, I
really want.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You to be a part of this group.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And this is at the time when all of these
other content houses and content groups were really big.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
A content house is designed to offer productive environment for influencers,
enabling them to create content for their audiences while also
growing their profiles and through collaborations with other members of
the house. In turn, they typically come together with a
unified goal of widening their reach, having fun together, and
hopefully profiting off of it. So James called you guys
(13:13):
in so content houses are not uncommon, and so for
him to say, hey, here's all the people that we
have and here's what a living doing, then you're like, oh,
there's no red flags at that point.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, at that first point, and we were just visiting.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So Kevin and I had a hotel and we were
going and hanging out with the different people I'm just
now being introduced to, like his LA friends, because we
had only been together a few months before we had
made that trip. Oh you know, it was it was
still because we were like a pandemic love story. So
that's like end of twenty twenty. We met by the
beginning of twenty twenty one. It was when we had
moved to LA and so on that trip, after he
(13:48):
got acquainted with everyone there, we had got invited to
like a dinner And I know I told this on
the documentary, but I really thought it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Was just like a dinner party.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Like I was like, Oh, we're gonna dress, We're gonna
go like have lunch on a rooftop in.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
LA, Like That's what I had.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
In my brain, Like, Oh, I'm meeting your LA influencer friends,
Like okay, Like so that's the type of dinner party
I'm like prepared for. The dinner party was like at
Robert's house. It was like with the pastor it really
even when we first got there, like I was thinking, oh,
somebody's birthday, Like it must be like okay, this is like.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
We walked in nice house. I am meeting like the
other dancers who were involved, And.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
How is the energy was it just like a lot
of the people that you had already met, the dancers,
and like since is it light or is it more
of like a.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It was very lighthearted, like it's a great house. We
were mingling we kind of all sat down. I didn't
notice a change, like a shift in the atmosphere until
Robert had said, okay, now pull out your bibles. I said, oh,
and everyone at the time they had like a Bible
app and that's where they pulled out their Bibles on
their phones. And I was like, I definitely don't have
(14:55):
a Bible app on my phone. And that was my
first like when I had first realized that there was
like a spiritual religious undertone to Kevin. No. He was
invited to a Bible study with them. The night before
we went and had dinner, and then the next night
was like, oh from the Bible said. He's like, oh,
we got invited to do a dinner party. And I
was like, okay, cute, like let's go have dinner. But
(15:16):
I didn't know that any Like I really just thought
it was, yeah, going to be a dinner party.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
And then when we went.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I imagine too, he probably didn't associate that it was
going to turn into No.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I think he also dine to a Bible study exactly.
He also thought I was just like, oh, dinner party
and no.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We all said around and I did. I remember like
when Robert.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Was there and I was like, but he was introduced
to me as like Isaiah's dad, so it's like.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Oh, it's his house.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
So that's probably why we're all having dinner here in
his really beautiful house.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And Isaiah at the time, was he filming content with
you guys. You guys hadn't filmed with him yet, because Isaiah,
for those that don't know, is Robert's son, and Isaiah
would film most of the content for the dancers at
that time, So you guys hadn't collaborated at that point.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Kevin had.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
He had Isaiah had shot a music video for Kevin
like a year or so prior, so Kevin was already
acquainted with Isaiah, and like I think Isaiah had also
shot for Kevin and be Dash. They did like this
really viral it concept like the clown the horror clown film.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And it's actually a piece of that is in the documentary,
which is You Brought Up World of Dance and the
James and Kevin or be Dash and Kevin Concrete, We'll
say all the names. Yeah, it's such a good piece.
That's the other thing is Isaiah's extremely talented and the
(16:34):
videos that they were putting out there were at a
different level in the caliber was really really great that
I just totally get why that would be enticing that
comfort level going into the dinner, being like I know
these people, I trust these people, I've worked with these people.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Exactly because almost everyone at that dinner table Kevin had
known previously been friends with for years, like not just
like oh I've known them last year, Like this is
like ten plus years of like breaking bread with these people.
Like that's why you said, Like the level of comfortability,
it was new to me, but I could see the familiarity. Yeah,
between all of the dancers really makes perfect sense. We'll
(17:15):
be right back after the break.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Welcome back. We're breaking down Kalia's experience with seven M
and the Chicina Church.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
We're talking about me.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's right. So what was your initial impression of seven
M Chkaina going into the dinner flash forward, meeting more people,
getting invited I would imagine to a service, What was
your initial impression?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
See, my initial impression was really at the dinner, and
I think we got introduced rather quickly because that first
dinner that we went to, we had told the people
were thinking about moving to La where we're actually looking
at an apartment tomorrow. We were trying to get a
feel of like, Okay, what's the price range, what's something
that we could afford, Where would we want to live.
So we had mentioned that at the dinner table, and
(18:02):
Robert had said, like, oh, I actually have a home
for you that you can rent two bedrooms out of
this five six bedroom home and I'll only chart only
twenty two hundred a month, which is like, for LA,
that makes sense. I think a lot of people are like,
that's so high. I'm like, it is, but in LA,
that's actually a really good deal. But he said, and
(18:23):
I'll just let you go in no credit check, Like
you could pay the pro rated rent for the rest
of the month and then twenty two hundred and you
could fit right in and you could start shooting content
with everybody basically, And so we were like, okay, that
would cut out a lot of process for us if
we could just get right into a place and start working,
which is what after a big gap of like especially
(18:44):
Kevin not being able to get as many jobs and
like he was starting to get more brand deals. So
even before we had left to La, we had worked
on a couple of things, but like even just having
help with that and being amongst his friends whom he
usually does business with, that.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
He's known for a long time.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I see the potential here, Like there's so many talented
people just in this room who are like experts in
their crafts.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And that was a content house.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So when we had first moved in, the house was
actually occupied by other church members. Their names are Marilyn
and David and their family. They had at the time
two kids. They were living in that house first, and
they had told us Robert and the other mentors.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh and for those that don't know, the mentors are
believe to be part of a system to further cement
control over the members of the church. In seven m
we'll touch more on that on further episodes.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
The people write under Robert at that time was Daniel
and Shirley, And so we met Daniel and Shirley.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And Daniel's a mentor.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Daniel is a mentor under Robert was a mentor.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Robert's right hand man at the time, like that was
his go to his co captain.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
And so that was the day that I met Shirley
and Daniel. The day we moved in, which was I
think the very next day. We went to go check
it out and like see if, like, you know, are
we going to really move in here?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So the day after the dinner you went to check
out the house, which I guess I did. I haven't
heard the story so linearly like, which is like this
is all making perfect sense.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I would imagine if you're up in the air on
where you want to live and then all of a
sudden someone's like, well, here tomorrow, I'll just show you
this house. Go take a look, and you go take
a look, and then you meet you know people and
yes you are aware at that point that they're part
of the church, or.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yes they had said it's all other church members live upstairs.
But you have the two downstairs bedroom and like two
bath it's like a two bedroom, two bath. It felt
like our own private wing of the house because it's
like right in right on the right hand side, and
we have the two bedrooms, the bathroom, and like the
hallway closet, which in LA that's like clutch it's and
the rest of the house is huge, and like even
(20:48):
at the dinner table, like the other dancers were saying, well,
we shoot a lot of our content there, so we're like, oh,
perfect we'll be in the house that people come to
make the content at. But it wasn't necessarily a content house, yes,
because there was still a family that lived there at
the time, And actually originally I was helping watching Marylyn's
daughter because she was still a baby at the time.
(21:08):
Kylie is another one of the dancers that was a
part of seven M in Chakaina, and that was something
the church members had presented to me.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
First. Shirley and Daniel, the mentors, were like.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Well, the house that she moved into, Marylyn actually really
needs up with a babysitter. We can pay you X
amount to help watch the baby while she's at work.
She works from home, so I would watch the baby
downstairs in the mornings and Marylyn would be upstairs doing
her work. And that was kind of like the first
two months that we were in seven M. So it
was like a house off the bat, a little side
(21:39):
job gig of babysitting. And I love kids, great with kids.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I have kids.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, So I was like, oh, wow, right off the bat,
we have things.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
To do in La Yeah, which is so great.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So getting started going in, having a place to live,
having a side gig at this point is Kevin shooting
content with people.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Right away, they were already talking about, oh, what videos
they wanted to shoot. I think when I first joined,
people were still kind of getting their feeling on how
we were going to operate, like as seven MS specifically.
That was one of the things that was kind of
held over the heads was like, I know Kylie was
not a part of seven M yet, but like, oh,
if she worked hard enough and she showed like her
(22:21):
commitment level to like what we have going on over here.
Because Kylie had other things going on at the time
that seven M I think felt like it's taking your
time away from what we're doing over here. We don't
know if we can trust you because you have too
much going on. So it was very much that's why
you're not in seven M is because your commitment level
isn't high enough and we're doing things every day.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Like that was the air that was.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Kind of It really was presented to us as a
church first, like especially with like the Bible study, and
you know, Kevin and I both have history with Christianity.
So even the house that we moved into, it was
like they had told us think of this as like
an extension of the church. Like the seven M is
here to help us build the church.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
What was your role in seven M.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
When I we had first joined the church and later
on seven M the management company. I was in school
for social media marketing, That's what like I was taking
classes for.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I was doing it online.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And Kevin and I went to lunch with like Robert
and a few of the mentors of the church, and
he had like said, oh, have you ever like thought
about filming? And I was like, Yo, it's actually I
filmed Kevin all the time, and like I don't mind
being behind a camera. And that was something that Robert
was saying, was like, you know, we have like a
lot of talent, a lot of dancers, but we need
more like videographers, like you know, if you're down for
(23:39):
I want to set you up with his son Isaiah Reno,
who was another member of seven M and Chicana, so
they can help teach you the ropes and get you
behind a camera and that way you can help like
contribute basically to the operations. And so I think even
being introduced to these people, I was like, Wow, they
showed me how much like possibility there was, Like, oh,
(23:59):
you can really create a career off of something that
you're passionate about. And I think that was an alien
concept to me. And so after, like you know what,
maybe I will take up filming and just learn how
to film and get mentored in film by Isaiah because
what he does has been incredible.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
He does really a really good job.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And I learned how to film, so I would film
some of their brand deals. And then I also was
part of their operations when we would do big what
we would call it content days, where all the dancers
would get together and we would film like fifty to
seventy videos in a day or two, and I would
help them organize like the times, the schedules, getting everybody's
music ahead of time, because it really was like a
(24:39):
high production. And so I really helped like assistant direct
basically with Isaiah, just making sure we're on schedule and
the dancers are ready for their numbers and calling people
who are next.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
How long is a content day?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Typically it would be like a whole day event. We'd
start early and go into the night.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
She's a producer, Yeah, yeah, she's already done it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
It's on a resume, yeah, it is, honestly, No, that
was my role.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So you're you're shooting this content, you're being mentored, you're
learning this new craft. You're going to church services, Bible studies,
men and women Bible studies are different, or men's groups
women's groups. How does that? How does that all work?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So from my experience, in the time that I was
in Chicina, there was a men's Bible study, there was
a women's Bible study, and there were two church services,
one on Sunday, one on Wednesday, and then I forget
which day of the week, but there was another Bible
study meeting that was more like Inner Circle as far
as like the dancers go. And so at first Kevin
(25:43):
and I were going to all of them, and then
after the first couple of weeks, Kevin and I were
like disinvited from the super secret Inner Circle dancers meeting. Interesting,
what do you know why Kevin didn't want to go
one day and then it was like, Okay, you're revoked.
And for Kevin and I it really helped because those
nights that we didn't have to go to that super
(26:04):
secret meeting, like we were able to just go on
date nights, go to Elta Hano's in Hollywood and just
be outside and hang out and hindsight, I'm really grateful
we weren't there, but also maybe I would have seen
more red flags if we were at the super secret
meeting the whole time. But the part that helped it
not feel like it was four or five days a week, like, oh,
you're going constantly, because it's like we're still with a
(26:26):
group of you know, people whom we considered friends, right,
and a lot of the times for like the women's meeting,
or we're going over like work, things we're talking about
like ideas that we have and things that we've done,
and the accomplishments that like the team has made, like
oh we got to do this and this happened, Yay,
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Like, so you're going to this women's group with all
these women, did you experience any sort of red flags?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Oh in those meetings?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Or when did you experience the first kind of something's
not right here?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Honestly, the first one where I really was like me,
really pause and ponder was when Marilyn, my roommate at
the time, had decided to leave and she was explaining
to me a little bit of her story and how
she felt like the church wasn't happy or you know,
That's the first thing that kind of gave me pause.
(27:17):
Another red flag of mine this is when Marilyn was
still there, was I had heard Robert talking to his
other son, like he has his son Isaiah Shin and
then he had another son that was living there at
the time. And I was like in one of the
offices that they have on like the property where they
filmed some of the things, and I heard Robert ya
(27:39):
yelling at his like ripping his son a new one
over something that at the time I thought was like
so minor. And I was sitting there and I was like,
I know he can't hear me, because I'm like, like,
he doesn't know why I'm here listening. But I just
heard him talk to him so recklessly, and I was like,
that's a totally different person than I see on the pulpit. Yeah,
And that also gave me like, a hm, is this
(28:00):
how he is behind those doors? And then also there
were things like some of the things that Robert would
say on the pulpit, They're like, oh, your donations are
going to be used because we're giving church, so we
like to give our money to other churches, and we
want to do this this and that and so like
I was like, okay, like that makes sense. So it
sounds like what we're supposed to be donating to for charity,
to help other people out. And like I remember thinking,
(28:21):
like I wonder if like our money is going where
he says it's going. Is that really like what's happening?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I think?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
And then the things started to add up. The live
came out. But what really like shook us. That was
our big moment, and it was talked about on the
documentary is when like Daniel his right hand man, and
Chloe his daughter, who were married or are married, left
the church and we were like, that is your co
captain and your child and they're up and leaving and
(28:50):
not saying a word to anyone and just disappeared off
the face of the earth. What happened and what was
going on to cause them to have And Daniel had
dedicated with thirty plus years of his life to this church.
For him to just up and leave, that isn't just
going to be for no reason. And then more things
started coming out after Daniel and Chloe left, I really
saw the switch.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
And Robert because he starts tweaking on.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
The podium like it's just like like it was to
where like we are looking around at each other and
we're like.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Is he okay? Is he okay?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Because I thought the allegations were fake.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
But the way you're acting right now, you're acting like
a guilty person.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
That's when the panic said in That.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Is really the good word to use, because we're sitting
in the pews and we're watching this man and we're like,
this looks like someone who's guilty and is panicking. This
doesn't look like somebody who people are making baseless claims
off of. Otherwise I would have been like, no, there's
really no merit to this, but that's not what Robert
had said.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Like he just really was freaking out, and we're like, huh,
this is getting deranged. We'll be right back after the break.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Welcome back. We're breaking down Coalia's experience with seven M
and the Kina Church. I still have so many questions
for Daniel and Chloe.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Of like wife, so many questions for Daniel and Chloe.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I get like, what was it what was that moment
that made them say I'm out, Yeah, I'm done, Which
is kind of the next question I have for you.
It is like, what was that moment that you and
Kevin were like, this isn't for us. We need to
reassess our situation and we need to get out of this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
So when Daniel and Chloe had left, it really made
us kind of sit and review because again, these are
people that are like closest to him, his right hand man,
his daughter, and for me, I really thought about like
how am I being treated here?
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And while the mentors never spoke to me any.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Type of crazy way, I was also feeling like at
the end of the day, I don't feel good after
spending a lot of time with these people, because especially
my position where it was like I'm around the dancers,
but I'm not like a dancer myself.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I'm not an influencer. I'm not a public figure.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I kind of help with behind the scenes and I
help with production and like that's all like fine and dandy,
but like I think part of that separation too of like, well,
you're not what they are and wrapped up in like, well,
I don't think God has this calling on your life.
You're not meant to be in front of the camera,
Like you don't have what it takes to be in
front of the camera.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
I think I've never seen your hair, because you have
the most fabulous hair and absolutely stunning. So she deserves
if she wanted to be in front of the camera,
she could be in front of the camera, and the
camera she chooses not to.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
And I think that was really like the feeling of
it too.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
And like even with like social media them telling me, like,
you know, that's not what God has called on your life.
You don't have to be on social media because I
don't think God has that for you. And so even
like at the time, I was like building my TikTok
following and I think I had like fifty thousand followers, like,
and I was starting to get somewhere, and it was like, oh, well,
maybe this is just a distraction from like the path
I feel like I should be walking with God. Yeah,
(31:56):
I had deleted all of my social media accounts.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, because they said it wasn't your calling and m hmm.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And that's where like that influence comes in of like
it's just going to be a distraction for you, Like,
oh but if if that's what you want to do,
but you'll you'll go to hell, like you know what
I mean, Like it's whatever you want to do, but
that's not how you get to heaven.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, you know. Daniel and Chloe leave, and then.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I start going over how I've been treated in the church.
Things aren't adding up, and then I think about like
how I've heard how other people have been spoken to.
And then like all of the dancers had gotten together,
like Kevin and some of the other dancers, they were
filming a video that.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Day, and they kind of were all like.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Testing the waters with each other, and they're like, so
does Robert seem like he's panicking to you?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Like does he see does something seem off?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I think that was like the exact words that were
asked was like does something seem off to you guys?
And then it's just like the dam broke. And then
they all started talking and sharing their stories. And then
I got together with two of the other dance members
who decided to leave, and like as like the girl
or the women, the girls, we started like sharing stories
and I heard about how like their mentor would treat
them and it would be insane, like the body shaming,
(33:05):
the this and that, and like the direct like first
hand accounts of like where they were with their mentor
versus like where I was with Sureley, who was my mentor,
I was like, she never speaks to me like that,
and the intensity I think of what they were put through,
and we start like comparing things side by side and
we're like, this is not a safe situation.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I think we really need.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
To leave and take anybody with us that we can
because nobody should be.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Here right now.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, in that conversation. Were James and Miranda a part
of that at the time or.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
The initial conversation.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
No, But I think once the first few people who
were talking realized like, hey, I think we should leave, Like,
let's really decide to get out of here because this
is dangerous. This caused a lot of emotional distress and
once like we had decided that. Kevin especially brought it
to all of his friends at the time, who he
felt like were his brothers, but you know, as of
(34:00):
it's not that case. But he brought it to James
and Chez and all of the dnswers had gotten together
at one point to talk about, like, Hey, let's really
sit and reflect here, like this is not safe.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, there was so much coming out at that time
that I would imagine it's a little bit overwhelming. And
then obviously like you're trying to decide what is you know,
what's real, what's not, what's accurate, what's not, And then
you're basing it on the experience that you have. And
some are more extreme than others, right, which we heard
in the dock. You know, some people talk more about theirs,
(34:30):
which would love to kind of dive deeper into.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Later, But I think that's wade it so hard for
us who is hearing all of these stories and what
people like in the public were saying like, oh, you
guys are doing this to you and they're doing that
to you, and me being like, no, they're not. Like
some of the things to me felt outlandish at the
time because and I took it with a grain of
salt because I was like, oh, I didn't have that
personal experience, so it must not be true. But like,
come to find out that is really not the case.
(34:55):
There's a lot of times where someone treats you one way,
but they treat somebody else a completely different way. I
think we were still being like initiated because again we
weren't part of the inner circle.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Like it was still very much like let's take.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Them out to dinner, let's do this, this and that,
Like we're still being felt like courted, and like while
we were going to the sermons, like there was just
a lot that we weren't invited to, like, but there
was a lot of money that was lost. There was
a lot of like separation between me and like my
friends and family that now that I sit and like
look back on, I'm like, oh, that's time that I
really lost under what I thought was something that was
(35:30):
going to be good for me spiritually mentally, but it
just turns out it really wasn't.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
There was so many ulterior motives.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, which I'm so sorry. So with this podcast, what
do you hope to accomplish with it? What do you
hope people take away.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I'm hoping to give more people who were affected by
this group a platform, especially if they feel like they
haven't been able to speak in the past, or they
even didn't want to speak in the past, but they
want to now. I'm hoping they have like the opportunity
to tell their story and you know, hopefully heal from
it and within that like kind of give a warning
to other people who might be listening that like it
(36:06):
can happen to anybody.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I know.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
It feels like, oh, I'll never be around the situations,
but like we've seen this same story with just different
wrapping paper on it. It's not always like Jesus and God.
That makes it a cult, right, So I'm really hoping
to help like tell these stories that I think need
to be told and help some healing come from like
a really dark and dangerous situation that a lot of
us were in.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
So on that same note, I really want to know, like,
what do you hope to get out of this podcast?
Speaker 4 (36:34):
You know?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I think having done the documentary, it's about continuing the story,
continuing to have a space that people can feel they
can share their story, not be judged by it, have
some healing in that process, and hopefully continue this story
to expose this organization and this person and these people,
(36:55):
to maybe reunite families, to maybe shake people out of situation.
Or maybe it's like not even shaken out of it.
Maybe it's like they want to get out and they
don't know how, And maybe listening to this podcast, whether
that be inside Chakaina or seven M or another controlled
environ might say like wait, I can relate to that,
I've experienced something like that and maybe helped them.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
So yeah, yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I really do. I really do care about you, and
I'm so thankful that we had that time in the
Fush shop. And I have so much respect for you
because I think going through that process and filming with
you over the year that we were doing this, like
the amount of information and the detail that you provided
was so helpful to just better understand the inner workings,
but also more importantly for people to understand that anyone
(37:43):
can fall into this, Like you are obviously a very educated,
smart woman that is street savvy as well. I think
I leaned in because I was like, I kind of
feel like I'm similar to her, and if she was
able to fall into something like this, then really anyone is.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
What would make someone work their ass off to buy
a house and then give it all up for a
promise to get closer to God.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
More on that next week with my former housemate Marilyn.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
We'll be back soon, and thank you for listening to
Forgive Me For I Have Followed.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is a production from
wv Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael Tore podcast Network,
hosted by me Khaliah.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Gray Can Me Jess Coosobetto Forgive.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Me for I Have Followed is produced by Aaron Burlson
and Sophie Spencer's zabos Our.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Executive producers are Khalia Gray, Myself, Warmer Balderama, Leo Klam
and Aaron Burlison at WV Sound.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. See you
next week, See you next week,
We're sitting in the pews and we're watching this man,
and we're like, this looks like someone who's guilty and
is panicking. This doesn't look like somebody who People are
making baseless claims off of.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hi. I'm Jess Cosavetto, executive producer of the hit Netflix
documentary series Dancing for the Devil, the Seven M TikTok Cult.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
And I'm Khalia Gray, current social media marketing consultant and
former member of seven M Films and Chicina Church.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Welcome to Forgive Me For I Have Followed. On this series,
we're embarking on a gripping journey into the hidden and
harrowing truths behind high controlled groups and shedding light on
stories from those whose lives and careers have been impacted
by it.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Through powerful, in depth interviews with former members and new,
chilling first hand accounts, the series will illuminate untold and
extremely necessary perspectives.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is more than an exploration.
It's a platform highlighting untold stories and driving for the
possibility of healing. And with that said, let's dive into
the show. Chicaina Church is a southern California based religious
(01:26):
organization founded by Robert Schin in the nineteen nineties. This
religious group's focus was to raise up leaders and follow
the Gospel for prosperity. As the years went on and
the church expanded its outreach, allegations of isolation, abuse, and
defraud arose. A couple of years ago, Robert and his
wife Hannah started seven M Films, a talent management company
that helped primarily TikTok dancers grow their careers while inviting
(01:49):
them to Chakaina Church, and in twenty twenty two, an
Instagram live from one of the member's family pushed this
church into the limelight even further. In the summer of
twenty twenty four, after the release of the Netflix DOCKU
series Dancing for the Devil, the seven M TikTok Call
Chicaina Church and seven M have faced significant public scrutiny.
The series alleges that their CEO, Robert Shin, ran a
(02:11):
cult through seven M Films in Chicino Church, where he
claims he no longer serves as pastor, However, it has
been speculated he remains on the pulpit. Shin is accused
of sexual harassment, fraud, and forced labor by former church
members and TikTok dancers under his management company. In this
premiere episode, we are going to start from my co
host Kaliah Gray's perspective as she provides a personal account
(02:33):
of her involvement with the church and seven M Films.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Here's Khalia, I'm going to take you through my story
and how my pandemic romance became my husband.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
We had hopes of moving to la and we did it.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I thought hanging out with influencer friends was something I
would be doing all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
I went to a.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Dinner party where all of a sudden, Bibles rippled out.
I moved into a house that I thought was a
deal and started making contact with my friends.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
My boyfriend and I were going to a church with
our friends.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
We had assigned seats, we had separate study groups, and
we were making a life for ourselves. But then I
kept noticing some things about the leader of the church, Robert.
Robert Schin, or the self proclaimed man of God.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
We'll be mentioned a lot in the podcast, and we'll talk.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
More about him later, but what you need to know
for now is a lot of the control and manipulation
is believed to have stemmed from Robert and his teachings.
We're going to pick up months after that, when I
was first meeting Jessica, producer of the docuseries and my
co host, for the first time in a fush shop
in Vegas, after I had left the church and friends behind.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
Who stayed here is jess just first and foremost was
sitting here right now. It is like kind of crazy
to just think that a little over a year ago,
I flew to Vegas to see my family and piggybacked
the opportunity to meet with you, and I just remember
I felt like, so, well, one, let me go back.
(03:52):
I think that when we saw that you guys had
gotten out of the church, I think there was all
of these questions whether or not it was real, or
whether or not it was something that was just like
being put out there to throw us off. And so
we just had our guard up, and me in particular
going to meet with you, I know, we had like
signed NDAs, like we were both very much like, yeah,
what's going to happen? And so we met in a
(04:14):
little shopping center in public, as you should do when
you meet with a stranger, and I was really nervous,
So I think I ordered a drink and we just
got to chatting. And I think that that conversation, which
I thought was maybe going to be forty five minutes,
I remember we were going for hours and Kevin was
like hitting you up, being like are you okay?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
What's happening? So yeah, just to be here today and
like now be doing a podcast together and co hosting
this is such a full circle moment. Yeah, so thank
you for going on this journey with us.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I really appreciate first opportunity to tell the story with
the series. And I think going back to like when
we did first meet, Kevin might have had a job
in Vegas and he has family over there too, so
we were visiting family and everything was really confusing at
that point because we had just left. It really was
like Okay, after having people who I like trusted for
the last year or so of my life really come
(05:09):
to realize they're not people that I should trust.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
That's all.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
I was like, Okay, I don't know who to believe
and what's the truth. What is just like people that
want to take an opportunity to like have a story
and run with it, because then there's also like you know,
you hear those like horror stories of like not necessarily
horror stories, but people who make other documentaries that are like,
we just want to sell a story versus like, we
really want you to be able to tell your story.
(05:32):
So I think that was like what added to it.
But once we like sat down, like you said, I've
thought it was like a thirty forty five minute conversation,
but we sat at the fush shop and like you said,
look at.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Us now, one conversation has turned into a whole podcast.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
When we initially met last year, I'd say we were
probably like seven or eight months into the production process.
So when we had connected, of course it's like, one,
is it true? Did they actually leave? And second, it
was something that's so rare in documentary filmmaking that you
actually have the opportunity to sit down and talk with
people in real time as they're experiencing something, versus reflecting
(06:10):
on a time that they had been sarious right and
experienced it, which is still very very powerful. But I
think that's what made it so unique and maybe scary
at the same time.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
It's even scary to think about because now it's like
where there's people who are saying that they've left and
having those same conversations where it's.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Like, did you really leave or is this a ploy?
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So it's crazy that we're still in today's time having
to deal with the same feeling with people who were
involved and potentially still are involved.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
We are alive.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
So today is my sister's birthday and we're not allowed
to contact her and it's it's really sad because we're
blocked on absolutely everything and we really don't know why. However,
she's involved in she's got some kind of control over
(07:05):
her that is making her afraid of something.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Melanie Wilking, sister to one of the seven M dancers
Miranda Derek, went live on Instagram with her parents in
twenty twenty two. Miranda is still believed to be a
part of seven M Management and this Instagram live was
an attempt from her family to get a response from
the general public and Miranda. This was rapidly shared and
went viral and was the catalyst that exposed Chicina and
seven M Management. So how did Robert respond to that
(07:33):
Instagram live?
Speaker 1 (07:35):
There was more public attention drawn to it. One of
the things he had said was like, oh, so we're
going to disband the name of seven m Everyone's going
to put their own emails in their bios, so it
looks like we're not really a thing anymore. It looks
like we've disbanded, but really, behind the scenes, this is
what we're going to actually be doing. That's why I'm
really skeptical when I hear people saying like, no, we've left,
because I'm like, that was part of his plan essentially,
(07:58):
even when we were there, Like Okay, go and see
your family members, go and hang out with people, so.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
It doesn't look like you're involved.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
It looks like you're separated from us, so you can,
you know, still have your career and you can still
like get brand deals, you could still make money, which is.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Interesting because I think since the doc was released, it's
fifty to fifty some people have really leaned in and
are like fully loyal. I know, I've been unfollowed by
a couple of the dancers that are still in there.
And then there's other people like Miranda who's come out
and done like a public statement about it, which for
me personally, I'm not fully sure she's actually seen the documentary.
(08:35):
Just based on her response, I'm like, it's an interesting
response based on someone that may have seen it, because
it really is coming from a place of love and
it's not meant to be destructive in any sort of way.
So that really does track.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
Something that he has alluded to in some of his
sermons is like, well, when you're going against us, you're
going against God's children. So that's like you're going against
God directly. And so the way that he has presented
the rest of the world, I think to the people
in the congregation, it's like, I understand why you may
feel that way, because this man is like really telling
(09:09):
you to be scared of everybody else. I think it's
really just like the fear of like I'm going against
the heavens if I decide to do this, or even
just dislike concept of like loyalty.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
I think that's something else that he may play on,
especially with like the men.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's like, Wow, that's your friend and your friends online
talking about you like that.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
That's crazy, because that's some things that we've heard.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Like even regarding Miranda's parents, even hearing them tell their
story from their side, it was easier to twist it
to be like, well, you don't really know them, so
let me tell you about them. Even Miranda being like, no,
that's not my truth. This is actually my side of
the story. So for me, I was like, well, I
know Miranda, so I'm gonna trust what Miranda is saying.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
When all of that was going down and her family
had went live, like Kylie had openly spoke about how
it affected Miranda. How is the response for you guys
from your side and knowing her and what's being said
about her pas parents.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Before I go on to tell you how Miranda reacted,
just mentioned Kylie.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
She was one of the dancers who was part of
seven M around the same time as me. You'll hear
more on this later this season.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
She could see, along with all of us, the impact
of the Wilkings live in the pews and in the pulpit.
It would be Robert in the pulpit, and we had
our unofficial official seats, so it was kind of like
a seating chart. There were like just you knew you
would sit here, and that's where you would sit every
time we would come in. But Miranda and I sat
near each other. It was actually Kevin me Miranda Beatash
(10:33):
and that's where our our unofficial official seats were. So
as Robert was talking I'm sitting next to Miranda and
she's affirming everything that he's saying, like, yeah, that's you know,
that's exactly it. So I think that's why I felt like, Okay,
he must have had the conversation with Miranda and he's
echoing like what she has.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Said, right, which is understandable, like you would just if
you're sitting next to a person and they're.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, fully agreeing like halleluvia, Amen, praise the Lord. Yes,
that's it and.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Asukay, yeah, than that person's obviously.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
It's their story. It's they must be Miranda's story with
her parents, and I think just.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Other times I've heard her mention it is like in
meetings and like they really really building up the story
of like my parents wanted to control me and they're
upset that they're not getting money from me anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
How did you get involved in seven M Films and
the Chicaina Church.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Yeah, so, Kevi and I met in Sacramento. He had
moved back after being in.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
LA for a few years with his career, and he
had gotten a call from his longtime friend. Beatash James,
also known as Beatash, is an acclaimed dancer from LA
with a distinguished background in crunk. James was prominently featured
in seven m Content with My Husband Concrete and Aubrey,
who you'll hear more from in an upcoming episode, and
(11:49):
his wife is Miranda Wilking of the estranged Woking sisters,
featured in Dancing for the Devil. Beadash, who is to
the best of our knowledge, still involved with the church,
and he was there while when we were there the
whole time. But Beidash had given Kevin a call and
had said, you should come.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
Out to LA.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I have a lot of like opportunities and things going
on that I want you to be a part of.
And this isn't out of the ordinary for their relationship,
as it's been told to me by Kevin, Like there's
been plenty of times where they call each other like, Hey,
I have this job come through and come check it out,
or I want you to be a part of this.
So it was very much like in the realm of
things that they've done in the past that have been
like lucrative really for their careers. As soon as we
(12:31):
got to La, you know, we went to go see
what Bidash was talking about, and he had showed Kevin
all of the people that he was involved with and
all the content that they were making and the brand
deals that they were getting, and was saying like, I
really want.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You to be a part of this group.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
And this is at the time when all of these
other content houses and content groups were really big.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
A content house is designed to offer productive environment for influencers,
enabling them to create content for their audiences while also
growing their profiles and through collaborations with other members of
the house. In turn, they typically come together with a
unified goal of widening their reach, having fun together, and
hopefully profiting off of it. So James called you guys
(13:13):
in so content houses are not uncommon, and so for
him to say, hey, here's all the people that we
have and here's what a living doing, then you're like, oh,
there's no red flags at that point.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, at that first point, and we were just visiting.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So Kevin and I had a hotel and we were
going and hanging out with the different people I'm just
now being introduced to, like his LA friends, because we
had only been together a few months before we had
made that trip. Oh you know, it was it was
still because we were like a pandemic love story. So
that's like end of twenty twenty. We met by the
beginning of twenty twenty one. It was when we had
moved to LA and so on that trip, after he
(13:48):
got acquainted with everyone there, we had got invited to
like a dinner And I know I told this on
the documentary, but I really thought it.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Was just like a dinner party.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Like I was like, Oh, we're gonna dress, We're gonna
go like have lunch on a rooftop in.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
LA, Like That's what I had.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
In my brain, Like, Oh, I'm meeting your LA influencer friends,
Like okay, Like so that's the type of dinner party
I'm like prepared for. The dinner party was like at
Robert's house. It was like with the pastor it really
even when we first got there, like I was thinking, oh,
somebody's birthday, Like it must be like okay, this is like.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
We walked in nice house. I am meeting like the
other dancers who were involved, And.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
How is the energy was it just like a lot
of the people that you had already met, the dancers,
and like since is it light or is it more
of like a.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
It was very lighthearted, like it's a great house. We
were mingling we kind of all sat down. I didn't
notice a change, like a shift in the atmosphere until
Robert had said, okay, now pull out your bibles. I said, oh,
and everyone at the time they had like a Bible
app and that's where they pulled out their Bibles on
their phones. And I was like, I definitely don't have
(14:55):
a Bible app on my phone. And that was my
first like when I had first realized that there was
like a spiritual religious undertone to Kevin. No. He was
invited to a Bible study with them. The night before
we went and had dinner, and then the next night
was like, oh from the Bible said. He's like, oh,
we got invited to do a dinner party. And I
was like, okay, cute, like let's go have dinner. But
(15:16):
I didn't know that any Like I really just thought
it was, yeah, going to be a dinner party.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
And then when we went.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I imagine too, he probably didn't associate that it was
going to turn into No.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
I think he also dine to a Bible study exactly.
He also thought I was just like, oh, dinner party
and no.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
We all said around and I did. I remember like
when Robert.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Was there and I was like, but he was introduced
to me as like Isaiah's dad, so it's like.
Speaker 3 (15:36):
Oh, it's his house.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
So that's probably why we're all having dinner here in
his really beautiful house.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
And Isaiah at the time, was he filming content with
you guys. You guys hadn't filmed with him yet, because Isaiah,
for those that don't know, is Robert's son, and Isaiah
would film most of the content for the dancers at
that time, So you guys hadn't collaborated at that point.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Kevin had.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
He had Isaiah had shot a music video for Kevin
like a year or so prior, so Kevin was already
acquainted with Isaiah, and like I think Isaiah had also
shot for Kevin and be Dash. They did like this
really viral it concept like the clown the horror clown film.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
And it's actually a piece of that is in the documentary,
which is You Brought Up World of Dance and the
James and Kevin or be Dash and Kevin Concrete, We'll
say all the names. Yeah, it's such a good piece.
That's the other thing is Isaiah's extremely talented and the
(16:34):
videos that they were putting out there were at a
different level in the caliber was really really great that
I just totally get why that would be enticing that
comfort level going into the dinner, being like I know
these people, I trust these people, I've worked with these people.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Exactly because almost everyone at that dinner table Kevin had
known previously been friends with for years, like not just
like oh I've known them last year, Like this is
like ten plus years of like breaking bread with these people.
Like that's why you said, Like the level of comfortability,
it was new to me, but I could see the familiarity. Yeah,
between all of the dancers really makes perfect sense. We'll
(17:15):
be right back after the break.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Welcome back. We're breaking down Kalia's experience with seven M
and the Chicina Church.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
We're talking about me.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's right. So what was your initial impression of seven
M Chkaina going into the dinner flash forward, meeting more people,
getting invited I would imagine to a service, What was
your initial impression?
Speaker 1 (17:42):
See, my initial impression was really at the dinner, and
I think we got introduced rather quickly because that first
dinner that we went to, we had told the people
were thinking about moving to La where we're actually looking
at an apartment tomorrow. We were trying to get a
feel of like, Okay, what's the price range, what's something
that we could afford, Where would we want to live.
So we had mentioned that at the dinner table, and
(18:02):
Robert had said, like, oh, I actually have a home
for you that you can rent two bedrooms out of
this five six bedroom home and I'll only chart only
twenty two hundred a month, which is like, for LA,
that makes sense. I think a lot of people are like,
that's so high. I'm like, it is, but in LA,
that's actually a really good deal. But he said, and
(18:23):
I'll just let you go in no credit check, Like
you could pay the pro rated rent for the rest
of the month and then twenty two hundred and you
could fit right in and you could start shooting content
with everybody basically, And so we were like, okay, that
would cut out a lot of process for us if
we could just get right into a place and start working,
which is what after a big gap of like especially
(18:44):
Kevin not being able to get as many jobs and
like he was starting to get more brand deals. So
even before we had left to La, we had worked
on a couple of things, but like even just having
help with that and being amongst his friends whom he
usually does business with, that.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
He's known for a long time.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I see the potential here, Like there's so many talented
people just in this room who are like experts in
their crafts.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
And that was a content house.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
So when we had first moved in, the house was
actually occupied by other church members. Their names are Marilyn
and David and their family. They had at the time
two kids. They were living in that house first, and
they had told us Robert and the other mentors.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Oh and for those that don't know, the mentors are
believe to be part of a system to further cement
control over the members of the church. In seven m
we'll touch more on that on further episodes.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
The people write under Robert at that time was Daniel
and Shirley, And so we met Daniel and Shirley.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
And Daniel's a mentor.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Daniel is a mentor under Robert was a mentor.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Robert's right hand man at the time, like that was
his go to his co captain.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
And so that was the day that I met Shirley
and Daniel. The day we moved in, which was I
think the very next day. We went to go check
it out and like see if, like, you know, are
we going to really move in here?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So the day after the dinner you went to check
out the house, which I guess I did. I haven't
heard the story so linearly like, which is like this
is all making perfect sense.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
I would imagine if you're up in the air on
where you want to live and then all of a
sudden someone's like, well, here tomorrow, I'll just show you
this house. Go take a look, and you go take
a look, and then you meet you know people and
yes you are aware at that point that they're part
of the church, or.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yes they had said it's all other church members live upstairs.
But you have the two downstairs bedroom and like two
bath it's like a two bedroom, two bath. It felt
like our own private wing of the house because it's
like right in right on the right hand side, and
we have the two bedrooms, the bathroom, and like the
hallway closet, which in LA that's like clutch it's and
the rest of the house is huge, and like even
(20:48):
at the dinner table, like the other dancers were saying, well,
we shoot a lot of our content there, so we're like, oh,
perfect we'll be in the house that people come to
make the content at. But it wasn't necessarily a content house, yes,
because there was still a family that lived there at
the time, And actually originally I was helping watching Marylyn's
daughter because she was still a baby at the time.
(21:08):
Kylie is another one of the dancers that was a
part of seven M in Chakaina, and that was something
the church members had presented to me.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
First. Shirley and Daniel, the mentors, were like.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Well, the house that she moved into, Marylyn actually really
needs up with a babysitter. We can pay you X
amount to help watch the baby while she's at work.
She works from home, so I would watch the baby
downstairs in the mornings and Marylyn would be upstairs doing
her work. And that was kind of like the first
two months that we were in seven M. So it
was like a house off the bat, a little side
(21:39):
job gig of babysitting. And I love kids, great with kids.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I have kids.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, So I was like, oh, wow, right off the bat,
we have things.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
To do in La Yeah, which is so great.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So getting started going in, having a place to live,
having a side gig at this point is Kevin shooting
content with people.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Right away, they were already talking about, oh, what videos
they wanted to shoot. I think when I first joined,
people were still kind of getting their feeling on how
we were going to operate, like as seven MS specifically.
That was one of the things that was kind of
held over the heads was like, I know Kylie was
not a part of seven M yet, but like, oh,
if she worked hard enough and she showed like her
(22:21):
commitment level to like what we have going on over here.
Because Kylie had other things going on at the time
that seven M I think felt like it's taking your
time away from what we're doing over here. We don't
know if we can trust you because you have too
much going on. So it was very much that's why
you're not in seven M is because your commitment level
isn't high enough and we're doing things every day.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Like that was the air that was.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Kind of It really was presented to us as a
church first, like especially with like the Bible study, and
you know, Kevin and I both have history with Christianity.
So even the house that we moved into, it was
like they had told us think of this as like
an extension of the church. Like the seven M is
here to help us build the church.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
What was your role in seven M.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
When I we had first joined the church and later
on seven M the management company. I was in school
for social media marketing, That's what like I was taking
classes for.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I was doing it online.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
And Kevin and I went to lunch with like Robert
and a few of the mentors of the church, and
he had like said, oh, have you ever like thought
about filming? And I was like, Yo, it's actually I
filmed Kevin all the time, and like I don't mind
being behind a camera. And that was something that Robert
was saying, was like, you know, we have like a
lot of talent, a lot of dancers, but we need
more like videographers, like you know, if you're down for
(23:39):
I want to set you up with his son Isaiah Reno,
who was another member of seven M and Chicana, so
they can help teach you the ropes and get you
behind a camera and that way you can help like
contribute basically to the operations. And so I think even
being introduced to these people, I was like, Wow, they
showed me how much like possibility there was, Like, oh,
(23:59):
you can really create a career off of something that
you're passionate about. And I think that was an alien
concept to me. And so after, like you know what,
maybe I will take up filming and just learn how
to film and get mentored in film by Isaiah because
what he does has been incredible.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
He does really a really good job.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
And I learned how to film, so I would film
some of their brand deals. And then I also was
part of their operations when we would do big what
we would call it content days, where all the dancers
would get together and we would film like fifty to
seventy videos in a day or two, and I would
help them organize like the times, the schedules, getting everybody's
music ahead of time, because it really was like a
(24:39):
high production. And so I really helped like assistant direct
basically with Isaiah, just making sure we're on schedule and
the dancers are ready for their numbers and calling people
who are next.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
How long is a content day?
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Typically it would be like a whole day event. We'd
start early and go into the night.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
She's a producer, Yeah, yeah, she's already done it.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
It's on a resume, yeah, it is, honestly, No, that
was my role.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
So you're you're shooting this content, you're being mentored, you're
learning this new craft. You're going to church services, Bible studies,
men and women Bible studies are different, or men's groups
women's groups. How does that? How does that all work?
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So from my experience, in the time that I was
in Chicina, there was a men's Bible study, there was
a women's Bible study, and there were two church services,
one on Sunday, one on Wednesday, and then I forget
which day of the week, but there was another Bible
study meeting that was more like Inner Circle as far
as like the dancers go. And so at first Kevin
(25:43):
and I were going to all of them, and then
after the first couple of weeks, Kevin and I were
like disinvited from the super secret Inner Circle dancers meeting. Interesting,
what do you know why Kevin didn't want to go
one day and then it was like, Okay, you're revoked.
And for Kevin and I it really helped because those
nights that we didn't have to go to that super
(26:04):
secret meeting, like we were able to just go on
date nights, go to Elta Hano's in Hollywood and just
be outside and hang out and hindsight, I'm really grateful
we weren't there, but also maybe I would have seen
more red flags if we were at the super secret
meeting the whole time. But the part that helped it
not feel like it was four or five days a week, like, oh,
you're going constantly, because it's like we're still with a
(26:26):
group of you know, people whom we considered friends, right,
and a lot of the times for like the women's meeting,
or we're going over like work, things we're talking about
like ideas that we have and things that we've done,
and the accomplishments that like the team has made, like
oh we got to do this and this happened, Yay,
Praise the Lord.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Like, so you're going to this women's group with all
these women, did you experience any sort of red flags?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Oh in those meetings?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Or when did you experience the first kind of something's
not right here?
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Honestly, the first one where I really was like me,
really pause and ponder was when Marilyn, my roommate at
the time, had decided to leave and she was explaining
to me a little bit of her story and how
she felt like the church wasn't happy or you know,
That's the first thing that kind of gave me pause.
(27:17):
Another red flag of mine this is when Marilyn was
still there, was I had heard Robert talking to his
other son, like he has his son Isaiah Shin and
then he had another son that was living there at
the time. And I was like in one of the
offices that they have on like the property where they
filmed some of the things, and I heard Robert ya
(27:39):
yelling at his like ripping his son a new one
over something that at the time I thought was like
so minor. And I was sitting there and I was like,
I know he can't hear me, because I'm like, like,
he doesn't know why I'm here listening. But I just
heard him talk to him so recklessly, and I was like,
that's a totally different person than I see on the pulpit. Yeah,
And that also gave me like, a hm, is this
(28:00):
how he is behind those doors? And then also there
were things like some of the things that Robert would
say on the pulpit, They're like, oh, your donations are
going to be used because we're giving church, so we
like to give our money to other churches, and we
want to do this this and that and so like
I was like, okay, like that makes sense. So it
sounds like what we're supposed to be donating to for charity,
to help other people out. And like I remember thinking,
(28:21):
like I wonder if like our money is going where
he says it's going. Is that really like what's happening?
Speaker 3 (28:28):
I think?
Speaker 1 (28:28):
And then the things started to add up. The live
came out. But what really like shook us. That was
our big moment, and it was talked about on the
documentary is when like Daniel his right hand man, and
Chloe his daughter, who were married or are married, left
the church and we were like, that is your co
captain and your child and they're up and leaving and
(28:50):
not saying a word to anyone and just disappeared off
the face of the earth. What happened and what was
going on to cause them to have And Daniel had
dedicated with thirty plus years of his life to this church.
For him to just up and leave, that isn't just
going to be for no reason. And then more things
started coming out after Daniel and Chloe left, I really
saw the switch.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
And Robert because he starts tweaking on.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
The podium like it's just like like it was to
where like we are looking around at each other and
we're like.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Is he okay? Is he okay?
Speaker 3 (29:20):
Because I thought the allegations were fake.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
But the way you're acting right now, you're acting like
a guilty person.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
That's when the panic said in That.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Is really the good word to use, because we're sitting
in the pews and we're watching this man and we're like,
this looks like someone who's guilty and is panicking. This
doesn't look like somebody who people are making baseless claims
off of. Otherwise I would have been like, no, there's
really no merit to this, but that's not what Robert
had said.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Like he just really was freaking out, and we're like, huh,
this is getting deranged. We'll be right back after the break.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Welcome back. We're breaking down Coalia's experience with seven M
and the Kina Church. I still have so many questions
for Daniel and Chloe.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Of like wife, so many questions for Daniel and Chloe.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
I get like, what was it what was that moment
that made them say I'm out, Yeah, I'm done, Which
is kind of the next question I have for you.
It is like, what was that moment that you and
Kevin were like, this isn't for us. We need to
reassess our situation and we need to get out of this. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
So when Daniel and Chloe had left, it really made
us kind of sit and review because again, these are
people that are like closest to him, his right hand man,
his daughter, and for me, I really thought about like
how am I being treated here?
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And while the mentors never spoke to me any.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
Type of crazy way, I was also feeling like at
the end of the day, I don't feel good after
spending a lot of time with these people, because especially
my position where it was like I'm around the dancers,
but I'm not like a dancer myself.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I'm not an influencer. I'm not a public figure.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
I kind of help with behind the scenes and I
help with production and like that's all like fine and dandy,
but like I think part of that separation too of like, well,
you're not what they are and wrapped up in like, well,
I don't think God has this calling on your life.
You're not meant to be in front of the camera,
Like you don't have what it takes to be in
front of the camera.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
I think I've never seen your hair, because you have
the most fabulous hair and absolutely stunning. So she deserves
if she wanted to be in front of the camera,
she could be in front of the camera, and the
camera she chooses not to.
Speaker 3 (31:29):
And I think that was really like the feeling of
it too.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
And like even with like social media them telling me, like,
you know, that's not what God has called on your life.
You don't have to be on social media because I
don't think God has that for you. And so even
like at the time, I was like building my TikTok
following and I think I had like fifty thousand followers, like,
and I was starting to get somewhere, and it was like, oh, well,
maybe this is just a distraction from like the path
I feel like I should be walking with God. Yeah,
(31:56):
I had deleted all of my social media accounts.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Yeah, because they said it wasn't your calling and m hmm.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
And that's where like that influence comes in of like
it's just going to be a distraction for you, Like,
oh but if if that's what you want to do,
but you'll you'll go to hell, like you know what
I mean, Like it's whatever you want to do, but
that's not how you get to heaven.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, you know. Daniel and Chloe leave, and then.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
I start going over how I've been treated in the church.
Things aren't adding up, and then I think about like
how I've heard how other people have been spoken to.
And then like all of the dancers had gotten together,
like Kevin and some of the other dancers, they were
filming a video that.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Day, and they kind of were all like.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
Testing the waters with each other, and they're like, so
does Robert seem like he's panicking to you?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
Like does he see does something seem off?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I think that was like the exact words that were
asked was like does something seem off to you guys?
And then it's just like the dam broke. And then
they all started talking and sharing their stories. And then
I got together with two of the other dance members
who decided to leave, and like as like the girl
or the women, the girls, we started like sharing stories
and I heard about how like their mentor would treat
them and it would be insane, like the body shaming,
(33:05):
the this and that, and like the direct like first
hand accounts of like where they were with their mentor
versus like where I was with Sureley, who was my mentor,
I was like, she never speaks to me like that,
and the intensity I think of what they were put through,
and we start like comparing things side by side and
we're like, this is not a safe situation.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I think we really need.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
To leave and take anybody with us that we can
because nobody should be.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
Here right now.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
Yeah, in that conversation. Were James and Miranda a part
of that at the time or.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
The initial conversation.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
No, But I think once the first few people who
were talking realized like, hey, I think we should leave, Like,
let's really decide to get out of here because this
is dangerous. This caused a lot of emotional distress and
once like we had decided that. Kevin especially brought it
to all of his friends at the time, who he
felt like were his brothers, but you know, as of
(34:00):
it's not that case. But he brought it to James
and Chez and all of the dnswers had gotten together
at one point to talk about, like, Hey, let's really
sit and reflect here, like this is not safe.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, there was so much coming out at that time
that I would imagine it's a little bit overwhelming. And
then obviously like you're trying to decide what is you know,
what's real, what's not, what's accurate, what's not, And then
you're basing it on the experience that you have. And
some are more extreme than others, right, which we heard
in the dock. You know, some people talk more about theirs,
(34:30):
which would love to kind of dive deeper into.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
Later, But I think that's wade it so hard for
us who is hearing all of these stories and what
people like in the public were saying like, oh, you
guys are doing this to you and they're doing that
to you, and me being like, no, they're not. Like
some of the things to me felt outlandish at the
time because and I took it with a grain of
salt because I was like, oh, I didn't have that
personal experience, so it must not be true. But like,
come to find out that is really not the case.
(34:55):
There's a lot of times where someone treats you one way,
but they treat somebody else a completely different way. I
think we were still being like initiated because again we
weren't part of the inner circle.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Like it was still very much like let's take.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Them out to dinner, let's do this, this and that,
Like we're still being felt like courted, and like while
we were going to the sermons, like there was just
a lot that we weren't invited to, like, but there
was a lot of money that was lost. There was
a lot of like separation between me and like my
friends and family that now that I sit and like
look back on, I'm like, oh, that's time that I
really lost under what I thought was something that was
(35:30):
going to be good for me spiritually mentally, but it
just turns out it really wasn't.
Speaker 3 (35:33):
There was so many ulterior motives.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, which I'm so sorry. So with this podcast, what
do you hope to accomplish with it? What do you
hope people take away.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I'm hoping to give more people who were affected by
this group a platform, especially if they feel like they
haven't been able to speak in the past, or they
even didn't want to speak in the past, but they
want to now. I'm hoping they have like the opportunity
to tell their story and you know, hopefully heal from
it and within that like kind of give a warning
to other people who might be listening that like it
(36:06):
can happen to anybody.
Speaker 3 (36:07):
I know.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
It feels like, oh, I'll never be around the situations,
but like we've seen this same story with just different
wrapping paper on it. It's not always like Jesus and God.
That makes it a cult, right, So I'm really hoping
to help like tell these stories that I think need
to be told and help some healing come from like
a really dark and dangerous situation that a lot of
us were in.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
So on that same note, I really want to know, like,
what do you hope to get out of this podcast?
Speaker 4 (36:34):
You know?
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I think having done the documentary, it's about continuing the story,
continuing to have a space that people can feel they
can share their story, not be judged by it, have
some healing in that process, and hopefully continue this story
to expose this organization and this person and these people,
(36:55):
to maybe reunite families, to maybe shake people out of situation.
Or maybe it's like not even shaken out of it.
Maybe it's like they want to get out and they
don't know how, And maybe listening to this podcast, whether
that be inside Chakaina or seven M or another controlled
environ might say like wait, I can relate to that,
I've experienced something like that and maybe helped them.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
So yeah, yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (37:20):
I really do. I really do care about you, and
I'm so thankful that we had that time in the
Fush shop. And I have so much respect for you
because I think going through that process and filming with
you over the year that we were doing this, like
the amount of information and the detail that you provided
was so helpful to just better understand the inner workings,
but also more importantly for people to understand that anyone
(37:43):
can fall into this, Like you are obviously a very educated,
smart woman that is street savvy as well. I think
I leaned in because I was like, I kind of
feel like I'm similar to her, and if she was
able to fall into something like this, then really anyone is.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
What would make someone work their ass off to buy
a house and then give it all up for a
promise to get closer to God.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
More on that next week with my former housemate Marilyn.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
We'll be back soon, and thank you for listening to
Forgive Me For I Have Followed.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Forgive Me For I Have Followed is a production from
wv Sound, Dirty Robert and iHeartMedia's Michael Tore podcast Network,
hosted by me Khaliah.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Gray Can Me Jess Coosobetto Forgive.
Speaker 1 (38:31):
Me for I Have Followed is produced by Aaron Burlson
and Sophie Spencer's zabos Our.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Executive producers are Khalia Gray, Myself, Warmer Balderama, Leo Klam
and Aaron Burlison at WV Sound.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
music by Madison Davenport and Halo Boy.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. See you
next week, See you next week,
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Acevedo
Kailea Gray
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