December 5, 2022 • 37 mins
World Cup analysis and storytelling straight from the TV studio in Doha. Fun, face-paced conversation with the US Soccer legend and broadcaster: the pride of playing for your country, how soccer connects the globe, and forecasting the future of the USMNT.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
I do get a little crazy, nervous, anxious, excited. I
sometimes play the reverse psychology pessimistic game as a sports fan,
and I'm sure a lot of you can relate to that.
It's so different from what I do for a living,
which is a world of neutrality, where you don't just
try your best to be neutral calling a game. You
(00:29):
actually learn over time to have zero emotional attachment to
the outcome. Viewers don't always believe that, but I promise
you it's It's the same checklist every time. You want
a close, competitive game, you want some nice plays to
call for the viewers to enjoy, and you want no
serious injuries from the players. That's the same every time.
(00:49):
And I love my job, but there's something about stepping
away from neutrality and just being a fan and being
heavily emotionally invested. For me, there's just a few things.
At the top of the list is Colorado Avalanche hockey,
Chelsea soccer, and of course the US national men's and
women's soccer team when it comes to big international competitions
(01:11):
like the World Cup. So I record this the morning
after the US has been eliminated in the round of
sixteen by the Netherlands a little deflated. It did happen
during CFB Championship Saturday, when I was about to go
on the air, so the disappointment was buffered. A day
later I could process it. It's a semi qualified success
(01:33):
this World Cup in Qatar for the US. They lost
to a superior team, but the way they lost poor
defending lapses in marking was a little bit of a bummer,
which is why I am so excited to say that
I've got Alexei Lallis as my guest now. Before I
(01:54):
worked with Alexei covering the twenty ten World Cup in
South Africa, and before he went on to success with Fox, Yes,
Alexei was a great, proud, tough, passionate player for the
U S national team, central defender who would score some
strategic goals, usually with his head off that wild mane
of red hair for which he became globally known. So
(02:19):
Alexei was good enough to come on board, share some
old stories, evaluate the US performance, and at the end
we look ahead to the next World Cup, of course,
which the U S will co host with Canada and
Mexico for years from now. He did this just before
going on the set for Vox to set up the
next round of games. So it's the shortest ever episode
(02:40):
of this podcast, but it's jam packed with good info,
good stories, and great to connect with. Mail buddy Alexei
lalas part of this podcast. By the way, it was
hijacked by his colleague, my former colleague and my buddy
Rob Stone. You'll get it when it happens. But in
the meantime, UH storytelling an analysis with Alexei Lallas from Qatar. Alexei,
(03:03):
I am grateful for your time, every minute of it,
and Qatar is accounted for, so it's great to see
your smiling face in the afternoon their morning. Here we'll
tell some stories, will wind the clock back, but I
want to start with what is top of mind for
US soccer fans, and that's your reaction to the World
Cup Round of sixteen, you know, getting out of the
group but following to the Netherlands. I want to ask
(03:25):
you as an analyst, but first someone to ask you
as a as a passionate fan of US soccer, as
a former great who wore that shirt. So not what
do you think about it, but what are you feeling
about it? So the day after elimination yeah, because there's
there's two different you know process is there, right, So
what I think and what I feel about it. You
know what I feel about it is. Look, I've been
(03:45):
around a long time, you know, from back in the
nine back in the previous century, running around, and I've
seen the growth of this sport, and so I feel proud, um,
but I also feel that stuff was left on the table.
And I also feel, for lack of a better word,
it always gets me worried that you know as well
as I do, that people come into this soccer tent
(04:05):
every four years and it's wonderful because we get a
chance to spread the gospel. But you know, then they
leave and the impression that they get is really really
important because it leads to the credibility um and it
ultimately leads to more popularization of the sport. And I
hope that they saw a team that when we know
we all gravitated to it. But I hope that they
(04:26):
saw a team like me that they can be be
proud of. But we also know we're in the American
culture and it's about winning. And while most of the
things when it comes to America, we are number one,
and when we are winners at you know, unlike our
women's national team, our men's national team has not been there.
And so I worry that people either leave the tent
or go away from the tent for a little bit,
thinking that we haven't made progress. But we have made progress,
(04:50):
and I think that this ultimately maybe the time will
be looked at as a step forward. And it's not
about moral victories. I I don't want that anymore. But
this was a very young team. This is a team
also with an eye. So that's that's partly in my head,
you know, and that's how I how I feel about it,
you know how I think about it. You know, I'd
give Gregg Berhalter in this team a B solid B
(05:11):
B plus in terms of what they did going undefeated
in group stage and you know, a very difficult group,
playing really well against England. They just picked the worst
possible moment to have a stinker of a game against Holland,
and still it was there. There was a gift and
we didn't bite the hand, uh and take it right
out of that that Dutch hand. And you know, the
Dutch are a good team and they all they needed
(05:31):
is a couple of chances the ruthlessness that you saw
of the Dutch is something that this team hopefully will
develop over the next four years. Yeah, that's all. Well
put what's tough among other things for US sports fans
of crass but soccer is this sort of like not
knowing how to react about it? Is round of sixteen
good enough? Well? I mean I think the players felt
(05:52):
like there was more. You felt like there was more,
you know, perhaps, And this is this is the story
of the World Cup for so many nations, the what ifs,
would shoulda could have? Had you beaten Wales, had you
won the group, you don't play Holland in the round sixteen,
you have an easier match. I think it would have
been Senegal, right, so, but but they didn't take those chances.
They didn't win the group, and they made it hard.
(06:13):
And it seems like US soccer only knows one way,
and it's the hard way, right, And it's been that
way since Europe Layer. Yeah, it's you know, it's this weird,
purgatory type of place that we we inhabit right now
because yeah, we got out of the group. Well service
First off, qualifying for a men's World Cup is nothing new.
We have done that That's why it was such a
you know, a massive failure four years ago, but it
(06:35):
was kind of an anomaly. And so you get back
to the World Cup and you know, we we were
happy to get back to the World Cup, but it's
something that we've done. Getting out of the group is
also something that we have done consistently, um, but getting
out of that round of sixteen, we've only done that once,
back into in two thousand and two where we were
then we went on which was which was wonderful. And
so you're in this moment where you look back at
(06:56):
history and said, well, we had done better in previous
World Cups, and yet are we more advanced? I mean,
just within this cycle. I think that it's night and
day when it comes to how far this group has
come from that incredible failure of not qualifying for the
two thousand and eighteen World Cup, and it certainly bodes
well for the future. But I think where you know,
a little hesitation is from from me and others is too.
(07:17):
I mean, it's not an a type of effort because
you didn't find a way to win that game, and
that was a winnable game against the Dutch, and you
know they finished their chances. The United States didn't finish
their chances and doing things that we have done as
a soccer play nation for a while. And they're not
And I said it on air, these aren't these involved
type of uh soccer tactics that take decades and decades
(07:42):
to figure out. You follow your men in the box.
I mean, it doesn't matter whether you watch soccer or not.
That's a problem marking men in sports, marking your opponent
in sports, that's you know, that's a constant anywhere. So
that was a little bit disappointing, and not that we lost,
but kind of how we last exactly As a defender
and and as an analyst, when you and you have
three goals conceded and each time the defenses looking around
(08:05):
at each other like what happened? Where were you? I
mean that that does not look good. And I think
that you're right. It was a bad time to follow
asleep against an opponent unlike some of those in the
group stage who can really hurt you. And they made
us pay, and we made Holland look better than they are.
Perhaps who knows, maybe they'll go on and make a run.
I know you've fancied them a little bit as as
a contending team. But that's the one thing is at
(08:26):
the end of the day, um, you know you're not
gonna get many chances, you have to grab them. We
didn't early. But but when you look at the result
of a goal and the team was looking around each
other like, wait a minute, we broke down that that's
what was a little deflating to see. Yeah, and it's
it's you know, it's wide open men in the box
and clear cut chances and and again you know there
(08:47):
there are coaches out there, youth coaches, anybody that's coached
long enough. You talk about being able to watch your
being able to see the ball and being able to
see the man. These are fundamental, basic type of principles
of soccer. And so I think that's you know, that's
where where it's disappointing. Having said all of that, you
know that it was you know, we've we've seen this
before in World Cups, where you know, people come together
(09:08):
and as you know, especially in this day and age,
very little brings us together as a nation. And to
see these, you know, people in their classrooms because this
is the World Cup where it was actually happening during school,
which is something that was unique. So to see the
classrooms and the and the cool teachers and the cool
schools that kind of embraced it and used it even
as lesson plans than all that kind of stuff. And
(09:29):
everybody's screaming and young people in airplanes and obviously the
bars and the fan fests and all that. That was
pretty cool to just see that happen. And sometimes you're
in kind of this this bubble of a World Cup,
and now with this technology age that we live in,
we can see what's happening back home, and um, you know,
I don't have fow move to, you know, because I
get to do the best job in the world here.
(09:49):
But it was kind of cool to see all of
these people celebrating this game back in a country and
culture that you know, we're constantly pushing that boulder up
the hill and it you know, it made my old
stock heart very very happy to see that happening. Absolutely,
I agree, and I can say it from this set
of the Atlantic, the energy was there. And roll Lett's
remember too, it's not easy to progress in the World Cup.
(10:12):
We have one reaction, but but for Germany, for Belgium,
from Mexico, it's an unqualified disaster to be stopped in
group stage. I talk about it in college football. You know,
if if people want a comparison, Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma
not winning their division, not winning their conference, not contending it,
and and that is different because it happens every four years.
(10:35):
And Germany have struggled. So we did something those soccer
powers and much more talented teams didn't do. So yeah,
sixteen teams went home. And you know, look, we've I've
watched Olympics, I've worked Olympics. You you know, you've you've
seen it and worked it. And you know, sometimes when
you see these sports like where it comes down to
you know, ten seconds is the entire you know, synopsis
(10:57):
and uh and career and you're judged on you It
blows your mind sometimes to see that. Obviously soccer is
a little longer in terms of a game, but it
but it still does come down two minutes And is
it right? Is it fair to judge athletes just on
those moments? It doesn't matter, you know, Soccer isn't fair.
In life isn't fair. This is the way the way
that it is. And ultimately Greg Berhalter is the coach
(11:18):
knows this, and these players know that this can be
defining and that we left a little bit on the
table just means that we have, you know, still still
some ways to go. But you know, as the saying goes,
you've come a long way, baby, and soccer certainly has.
And this isn't me being Pollyanna, This isn't me asking
for blind faith out there when it comes to our
(11:38):
soccer teams or just our soccer in general. It's just
maybe some perspective that I've gotten over the years and
seeing how, you know, how the game has played, how
the game is coached, I mean, how even how it's
how it's broadcast, and how that has evolved, you know,
and the world over here in this incredible set for
Fox over here, and you know we've seen over the
years how it's been that broadcast. Then bringing it to
(12:01):
you know, a country and culture that's really really unique
because it's not just about the U. S team. It's
about all of these different teams and are melting pot
that is the United States in the United States and
all this incredible diversity that we have, you know, giving
people their teams and it's not always the the US team,
but ultimately giving them a steady diet of soccer. And
you know, as you mentioned, I still got another two
(12:22):
weeks here and and we've been through this where the
home team goes out and right, and there's this deflating
of the balloon, right, but you gotta pick it up.
And as pros were right back in here today and hell,
you know we got we got France and Embobe here
that I get to call. So I'm incredibly fortunate privilege
to be able to do this messy still in the
tournament where and all of that still in the tournament.
(12:44):
It just goes on and on and on. And if
you really if you got excited about the US team
playing soccer in the World Cup, there's plenty more you
will fall in love with this game. And there's plenty
more as this World Cup goes on, and you know
is coming to and that's gonna be a fun. That's
gonna be a fun and you're both on and off
the field for what it means for soccer in the
United States and to to to a certain stent in
(13:04):
Canada and Mexico. We'll circle back, I want to finish
with that as we look ahead to the next World Cup.
But let's spend back. You and I sat next to
each other in Pretoria, South Africa, for a situation somewhat
similar to the U. S Iran game. They had to
be at Algeria to go through, to not go through.
It had been a disaster. Algeria a very beautiful opponent,
but it wasn't happening, and they had had chances, Us
(13:26):
had had chances. And we're sitting there in this not
a very glamorous stadium, kind of an old stadium, not
one of the show place venues in South Africa, and
we are preparing for a post mortem. Right It's the
last game in the group stage. If they don't get
the win, they go home. It's gonna be crushing. I
can feel the emotion from you next to me. I
(13:46):
didn't play, but obviously I'm emotionally invested. And all of
a sudden, that that goal that landed Donovan scores. He
had Andreas Cantor as a guest in the podcast. He
talked about calling it in Spanish. I've talked to, obviously,
lots of folks who have experience, and you said ten seconds,
and that was a ten seconds change the World Cup, change,
the life of Donovan and so many other players. But
(14:07):
but that emotional ride, we we were we were deflated, depressed,
and then there were literally tears of joy I think
from you after Donovan scot and we won the group.
It was nuts, it was not And you know, listen,
I had so much fun, you know, working with you
and others, and I learned so much from you. And
obviously I've I've continued on and and you know, being
with Fox and working World Cups, Men's and women's and
(14:29):
stuff like that. But you know, TV is something that
I have been so fortunate to come into and to
learn from the likes of you and and other greats,
whether it was ESPN and at Fox, and continue on
and to see you guys work and to understand what
goes on and how the sausage is made. Um, it
was incredibly changing in terms of the way that I
(14:51):
did did my job. And then you know, to be
talking about a game that I love at at a
World Cup in these incredible moments, and to experience that
emotion now not as a player, but talking about it
and you know, hopefully being able to in a you know,
a to be able to articulate and to be able
to tell the story in in you know, hopefully an
(15:14):
interesting and entertaining type of way. Um. You know, talk
about coming a long way. I've come along a long
way since then, but a lot of the foundation that
I still use today with stuff that I learned with
you and others and others there. It literally changed the
way that I that I do my job because I
understood how it was done. But you never you never
lose that love and that, you know, the beauty that
(15:36):
comes from the game, the passion that you have, the
emotion that comes out, and and it's you can't control
it con apologize for one second about having the wrong emotion.
Fans look to you for that. That's a moment where
they could say, Alexei Lallas, I remember him playing, but
he's one of us too, because you're allowed to care
in the World Cup and that kind of a moment, Alexei,
(15:57):
where we weren't calling it, We're just watching it and
then getting ready to react to it. But that kind
of a thing where where careers change on a dime
because at one ball put in the net just in
the nick of time, and I thought that was a
beautiful woman. I've talked about that where you know, hey,
it's okay to get choked up. Yeah, we have to
have some distance, and you've become this wise stage, you know,
(16:20):
delivering perspective. It only comes over time. I think that's
that's sort of your your role in a in a
knee jerk, no context reaction, short attention span world, that's
what you're there to sort of counter, I think, in
your role. But in that moment in ship, I mean
that we were prepared to do a post mortem and
it was a celebration that was fun. And don't don't
(16:41):
never lose the rawness and the heart that you bring
to it. Man, I am preciate. I can't. I mean,
even if I tried, I couldn't. I I couldn't do it.
And and sometimes you know when when all the crap
is flying around and you know you're you're incredible at
being able to still get the job done with all
the craziness sometimes that live sports bring. And that's why
(17:01):
I know you love live sports. I love live sports,
and there's there's nothing like it. And it is becoming
actually more and more unique and valuable as we go
on in this in this world that seems to be
packaged to end and already kind of predestined live sports
are where it's at because you don't know what is
going to happen, and you need people like yourself to
(17:22):
be able to steer the ship and make sure that
people stay on course, but also, like you said, to
recognize the emotion, recognize the moment and what the moment needs,
and to to paint a picture. And you know, ultimately,
you know, you're you're an artist in your own right
in the way that you do things. And I like
to think we're all kind of painting this picture. Sometimes
it's a better picture than other pictures, and sometimes we
(17:43):
get it right, sometimes we don't, But you know, we
are living it, and the people are watching us living it,
and we are for the time being, they're still using
human beings, and as long as they do, you know,
we're gonna have emotion and passion involved in what we do. Yeah,
I mean, technology calls off size, but humans will always
describe the action on the field. Yeah, you're very kind.
(18:03):
I mean, I learned so much from you and from
this collection of global rock stars that we assembled in
South Africa and other World Cups. But I think that's
where we kind of first brought ESPN resources to Bear,
and then you had Rude Hullett, and you had Steve McManaman,
and you had Jurgen Klinsman, and you had Roberto Martinez
a lot of soccer brain power. But all these nations represented.
(18:25):
All these dudes were, you know, multi millionaires who had
global brands because of their success on the field. You're
representing America to an American audience. But but in the
global game, what was that like? You know, sitting there
with with that collection of personalities who, by the way,
did their job all day and night and then went
out and enjoyed South Africa as only they could. I mean,
(18:46):
for me, that was like a life changing moment. Incredibly
proud to be the host of that coverage. I will
always put that very very near the top of the resume.
But what was that like for you to sit in
that desk with that characaustic here and then go off
go off into the night with them to right? Yeah,
I mean, it's it's so much fun because obviously you
see these players and they are acts players and what
(19:07):
they have done on the field, and you associate moments
in your life. Sometimes you might have played against them
or idolized them growing up and watched them, and then
you you get to know them as people and obviously
as colleagues working, and there is a great equalization process
process that happens because while you might have the cachet
of what you've done on the field, ultimately now you're
(19:28):
in the TV world and you've got to bring it
again and to see how some do and some don't,
and some like it, some dope, some don't. I mean, look,
I am so fortunate to be able to do what
I do. I get you know, players sometimes asked me
about it all the time, and I said, listen, if
you can find a jumping off point, um, great, because
your career might not end when you want it. But
(19:49):
I'm so fortunate because I've found something that excites me
as much and even in certain ways even more jacks
me up than playing. In terms of television, it's not
for every some people. You know, it's easy from the couch,
we all, we all know that. But when you when
you find something like that, you hold onto it and
you know they can pry it from my cold dead hands.
(20:10):
And listen, they're coming, all the young and are coming
right now. But to be able to work with all
of these legends and understand how they think about the
game and to get their insight, especially when they're good
on television, because it's one thing to be good in
the bar, it's another thing actually be good on television.
That's awesome. That's us. And now we have more and more,
especially of these American legends. You know, here a Fox,
I'm working with Landon Donovan and Contempse and Reesa do
(20:31):
and these types of players that have been there and done.
You know, we were just talking about the Landon Donovan
moment that is iconic, and now I'm sitting next to
him and he's talking about what he sees on the field,
and so it's it's wonderful that, you know, I'm kind
of the the old guy, the old I don't know
if I'm a sage or anything, but I'm the old guy.
But to see it happen. And then the international aspect
(20:52):
of the game that I know you love and I
love because you know, it's there're very few sports out
there that have this international aspect of it. Tennis maybe
to us certain extent um, but it means that you
have all these different you know, countries and cultures coming
together and sometimes that is reflected in the broadcast that
you do um, and it's cool. It's cool to see
how they think about the game. It's also a wonderful
(21:13):
moment when they experienced American television for the first time
and the reality says, you know, and you you see
the wheels starting to spin as they figure out, Wow,
I'm not in Kansas anymore. And this is maybe a
very very different type of broadcast, daily schedule and performance
that I'm used to, and and broadcast executive behavior some
of the guys. I don't think we're used to the
(21:34):
intensity of some of the cast of characters we had.
You know, you mentioned the global nature. I hope fans
listening and fans who watch on their couch in this
country do get a chance to go abroad and experience,
whether it's a US game or a World Cup or
Champions League final, or or a Premier League game or
something where you see culture is coming together and this
(21:56):
shared language of soccer. It's been said it's somewhat trite
in my ends of some people, but it's so real
and I get chills thinking about the moments around the
world where where you're in a bar in the northern
part of Chile, you know, watching them play Argentina. There's
so many examples of that, and it's such a beautiful,
you know, menu of experiences to have that people open
(22:17):
themselves up. And I'm glad you talked about the global
nature of it because that that is so rich and
it's so unique. Yes, there's tennis, but that's not the
same as an individual sport versus watching your country out
there running around. I mean, look, I always tell the
story of when I was a kid. I used to
go out and I grew up in the suburbs of Detroit,
grew up with you know, slurprites and MTV and you know,
(22:38):
going to see rats played down at the Kobol Hall
or Joe Louis Arena or whatever. And you know, I
would go out when I was a kid and I
would jug on my ball on my sidewalk in front
of my house here in suburban Detroit, and it always,
you know, it wasn't lost on me. You've been a
young age that there's a kid on the other side
of the world that I have absolutely nothing in common
(22:59):
with sept this game. And that always fascinated me because look,
I grew up in all the different sports. I was
huge I actually played more hockey growing up in soccer,
and it's the law and Detroit obviously in in Michigan,
but the fact that this was an international game that
really really appealed to me. Look, I I am incredibly
uh you know, privileged and happening fortunate to come from
(23:20):
what I feel is the greatest country in the world,
in the United States. But I also recognized that, you know,
we are citizens of the world and that world play
soccer and that connection that this game brings. I think
it's it's wonderful from an international perspective, but it's also domestically.
You know, when people gravitate towards this team and towards
this tournament and towards this sport, a lot of times
(23:40):
it's that there's this feeling that we are connected, we
are something bigger than just the United States, and not
all our sports are able to do that, and maybe
this is the unique sport that is able to able
to do that. And it doesn't mean you have any
less uh pride or affinity for the country or your phone.
As a matter of fact, you can celebrate that country
within the context of this game that the rest of
(24:00):
the world is also celebrating. I hope people listening will
understand that before they were watching you on TV, you
were running around playing and it was more than just
the red hair and the beard. I mean, I want
to ask you what it felt like, Alexei to wear
the U S shirt. You're talking about the background you
came from, your your love of soccer at a young age.
But to get to the pinnacle of soccer in the
U S and to wear that shirt and to score
(24:23):
a goal against Argentina in a win in Copa America,
to score a goal against England and a victory at
International and then to put on those crazy stonewashed blue
denim looking stars and stripes kits in nten ninety four,
controversial to this day, loved by some, reviled by many.
But to put that shirt on and you want to
(24:44):
say Hi, Chris Bowler, Rob Stone, Oh my goodness, Rob
Stone is stunner. I wish people can't see this who
are listening, But Robson has jumped into the front one.
What this one is? Yeah, they're they're clean, they're clean.
What's going on? And you're sharing earbuds over in Qatar?
(25:05):
That is that is team love, Lily. He just asked
me about the denim kip back in the nineteen hundreds,
it was it was incredible. Yes, so yeah, I was
running around with a whole lot more hair back then.
It was. It was wonderful. But we've come a long,
long long way. Working Are we doing something? We're doing
a podcast? Thank you for a podcast? Pod pod what? Yes?
(25:29):
They It doesn't even there's no real real tape the
way you used to do back and when you are
ready ESPN, you know, running tapes all over the place.
It isn't even involved. It's a it's a fledgling thing.
Just a few of us have these podcasts. It's just
starting out. But but yeah, thanks for jumping people tops
and eleven people you know, I mean, and just they
just communicate back and forth. The people want to download.
(25:52):
It's cold downloading download automatically like Napster down like Napster.
The automatically appears on their the mobile phones, not that
the rotary phones that we're talking about. That are you guys?
Are you guys punchy already? I sent some punchiness from
working together whatever. You're already in a sixteen? How come
(26:12):
I wasn't invited to this? Why you gotta go with
the big time. You didn't you didn't return my text, Rob, Yeah,
all right, right, Chris Fowler and I go way wait,
give a story before I'm gonna give you this. This
guy's family raised Golden Retrievers, and I got a beautiful
Golden Retriever of puppy that I gave to my mom because, um,
(26:35):
we had two previous Golden's who were not doing well.
And so this dog, this dog we named Higgins, um
gotten from the Stone family, bravely put in a little
cage and flew in a plane from Connecticut to Colorado.
Gave my mom years of joy. Was there her companion.
She began to struggle with Alzheimer's and but helped the
quality of her life. So thank you to Robin the
(26:58):
Stone family for the gift of a Golden Retriever. You
didn't expect that in our kitchen, beautiful beautiful Golden retriever.
So has has LEXI tried tend on Prime Time heading
the Boder Yet we haven't. We haven't talked about that
(27:18):
piece of college football news, and I'm not sure we will.
But I went on the Horny Frog. So the Horny Frog.
This thing, it's unbelievable. It's like I'm talking to a
guy who played at Newcastle and has no idea what
universities are. And you want the Rutgers University for crying
a Big ten. The Rutgers are in the Big ten conference.
They they got us for our education, not our football, evidently.
(27:42):
But I love you, but you've give them the ear
bed we got. We gotta get back to sucker a
little bit here. What I'm doing, I gotta I gotta
go work here. He's been telling me your time is precious, man,
keep it doing your You're an awesome job. I'm allowed
to say I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you.
All right, I got, I got, I got two minutes,
I got two minutes really big, you know what that's got.
(28:03):
I'm gonna don't worry. I'm gonna watch this thing off.
Don't you worry? All right? But the feeling of wearing
the shirt, even though the shirt was funky and representing
your country, and you know, back in the day they
would have called it building a brand, but you were
just doing what I did with exuberance and energy, and
the look didn't hurt either. But man, to take me
back to that that feeling of reap in your country. Yeah,
(28:27):
never has so much been done with a modicum of
talent and uh, you know, a lot of hair and
a goatee and a guitar. Um. Look to your point,
I grew up in the eighties and I grew up
watching you know, MTV, and you know, the um the
aesthetic was very, very important, and I incorporated that into
(28:47):
I mean, I've always considered myself an entertainer. You know,
you you rehearse, which is basically practiced, right, you take
it out on stage, which is basically the field. You
go in front of an audience, which is basically the crowd.
You put on a costume which is your uniform, and
then you perform. And you want that type of interaction.
You want to be seen, You want to be noticed,
and you want to do whatever act it is that
(29:08):
you do to the best of the best of your ability.
But you add the the other part of it, which is,
you know, the opportunity to represents your country, and it
is it is not lost on me. Um. You know
how few of us get that opportunity and incredible privilege
And there is nothing like putting on that jersey, walking
out on that field, putting your hand over your heart
(29:30):
and singing that national anthem and hearing the reaction from
the people, and you know, the score at a certain
point doesn't matter um to a certain extent, because you
are representing everything that we hold dear as a country
on the international stage. And I'll never forget that. I
(29:50):
never took it for granted so many times that that
I did it. If I could continue to do it,
I would. And it still gets me each and every
time when I see, you know, these young men and
the his own women go out there and represent our
country and within that Then to your point, I think
we talked about it earlier, the potential for their lives
to change. I mean, I'm sitting here in Dohak guitar
(30:10):
talking to Chris Fowler here on on zoom because of
the World Cups. It changed my life forever. I lived
the power of what a World Cup continue to an individual.
My life was never the same. And I love that I'm,
you know, talking about the World Cups now and that
there are players that in this World Cup, there will
be players in the World Cup in the US where
their life is going to change. It's a it's a
(30:32):
wonderful and amazing thing, and very few of us get
that opportunity. You talked about sports competition as performance, and
just the same way that another dear friend and colleague,
John mckinnur talks about it. He always felt like being
on the court was like performing, And like you, he's
a musician. His passion I think for music is almost
as strong as it is for tennis. And he views
(30:53):
it the same way, and and it makes me wonder though.
But you, you're perhaps being too modest. Although some of
your fame and notoriety came from the look these long
flowing red locks in the beard, there was the quality
of your play there, the intensity that you brought, the
physicality that you brought to it. You're not sitting here
telling me that if you'd had a red crew cut
(31:13):
and no beer, that you wouldn't have been Uh one
of the stories of the night before World Cup in
your life would have change? Would you? No? I mean,
I'd like to think that I had a little uh
skill and ability when in talent when it comes to
the actual playing of the game. But you know, the
the package is important, and just because you recognize it,
(31:34):
you know when I when I say that I'm an
entertainer sometimes, you know, that's not a pejorative, that is
an actual understanding of the theater that this that sports
is and can be. And I know sometimes people cringe
at that, but I leaned into it. I recognized it.
(31:55):
And in no way did that mean that anything that
I did, or the thing is that I wore, the
way that I looked was was not authentic or credible
or honest. I was incredibly comfortable in this costume and
in this persona and in this brand that I was creating,
and it, uh, you know, it worked for me. Yeah.
I think that some people do get offended when they
(32:16):
view it as as as theater or entertainment, and that's
it's nonsense. I mean, you the more year around it,
more you understand, Yes, it doesn't. You should not get
in the way of being a team guy, of competing,
of trying to be ahead in the scoreboard. But it
never did for you. And I think you recognize before
a lot of people that hey, you know, whether it's
just you know, being yourself or being yourself times x,
(32:38):
or you know, building a brand, whatever it is, it
worked for you beautifully and it continues too. So no,
don't ever apologize for that. UM is gonna wrap it up.
I gotta go to work, my man. People, last thing,
I know your time is valuable. UM. It's our shortest
episode ever, but I'm very very gratefully making time spin ahead.
We we talked briefly about the World Cup, which the
U S will co host with Canada and Mexico, not
(33:01):
just for the U S team, but what it's going
to be like to have the World Cup back on
US soil and a very different climate than the last
time that we hosted it hopefully. Yeah. I mean, look,
this is a wonderful ramp rate up to this incredible platform, uh,
to help change the sport and again move it forward. UH.
And it is a very very different scene than it
(33:22):
was back in the Women's World Cup, two very seminal
moments in terms of the perception of the sport. And
so the world is coming back to a U S.
And like we said of Canada and Mexico, that has
fundamentally changed. The United States is a soccer nation. Okay,
we don't have to apologize, UM, you know, we we
can shed our insecurities and our inferiority complexes when it
(33:43):
comes to what we are, and you know, we have
a supporters culture, we have a knowledge you know, I
think the American soccer fan is as knowledgeable and maybe
more knowledgeable than others, just out of necessity. And it's
all coming back to the United States. And keep in mind,
the Night four World Cup was the most successful World
Cup ever in terms of crowds, in terms of the
(34:04):
money that it generated. And this is gonna blow it
out of the water in twenty six and it's gonna
be it's gonna be wonderful. Because look, I'll leave you
with this story. So back in weeks before the World Cup,
I got on a plane and I sat in the
middle seat because that's what we did, right, And I
had in my US pullo on and I sat down
next to an older woman and she turned to me
said what she said, what do you do? I said,
(34:24):
to play soccer. She said, well, what's your job? I
said about play soccer, And she said, what do you
do for money? I said, I play soccer. And two
weeks later, I'm in front of a billion people at
the World Cup. Now that lady might have seen it
a couple of weeks later, but the reality is that
it's a whole generation that has grown up with soccer
is part of their sports palt and that's wonderful and
(34:45):
that's progress, that's evolution. And so this World Cup is
coming back in twenty six. It's gonna be bigger and
better than anything that we've seen. But it's coming back
to a US that is a soccer nation and has
plenty of culture, um and plenty of plenty of them
ocean and passion for this game. It's unique. It's American,
as I said, never ever apologize for that, whether you
(35:06):
don't ever apologize for calling it soccer or or any
of the other stuff that we yell and scream about it.
It's our own version of soccer. But it's a it's
the game obviously, it's played around the world, and we're
going to invite everybody into that tent once again, and
hopefully that ten's just gonna get bigger and bigger, and
hopefully a US team that will not be the youngest
of the World Cup in four years. These players can
learn and grow from the experience playing abroad and and
(35:27):
certainly building that enthusiasm and in that World Cup. Alexie,
I think you joined me around a six team, won't
be good enough. Not in four years, not with more development.
I think they're gonna be higher expectations and hopefully higher
level of performance from the home team. When that happens,
we should expect more from our home team. We should
expect more from these young players that have been given
every opportunity and resources halfway and with that comes to
(35:49):
higher expectations, and I think that they can live up
to it. This is a team that believes that they
are destined for greater things. And that's good. I mean,
whether that sports or anything. You want more for your
I guess children that I can call them, but they
are really you know. I mean, we took it as
far as we could, and this is a new generation
that believes that they can do great things and much
better things than we ever did. And that's progress, and
(36:10):
that's all that I ever wanted. All right, get back
to our keep up the great job. I'll be watching him.
Very grateful for your time for Squeeze and gets in
from Qatar and sharing some old stories and bringing back
some very nice memories for me. Appreciate Alexei. You're the best,
my friend. Thank you so much, And just like that,
away Alexei went. We stopped the recording. I turned on
the TV a few minutes later and there he was
(36:32):
on the set with the team talking about France versus Poland.
So I'm very grateful for his time. This episode obviously
was a sprint, but his schedule is so busy. Covering
a World Cup is just about unlike anything else in
TV sports. He were in the same hotel room for
about forty days and he has got a ways to go.
December eighteen is the World Cup final. Next time we've
(36:55):
got the season five finale episode. I'm so excited about this.
It's a year in the making. James Clear author of
the global bestseller Atomic Habits, and he is such a
smart guy. James is really in the forefront of self improvement,
developing good habits, kicking bad habits, becoming more productive, doing
(37:20):
more with less time, and a lot more so. Whether
or not you've read Atomic Habits, and I recommend that
you do, you'll get a lot out of this episode.
Our season five finale is coming up. As always, deeply
grateful for my co executive producer Jennifer Dempster and for
Octagon for editing the episode. We'll talk to you soon
(37:41):
for the season finale,
I do get a little crazy, nervous, anxious, excited. I
sometimes play the reverse psychology pessimistic game as a sports fan,
and I'm sure a lot of you can relate to that.
It's so different from what I do for a living,
which is a world of neutrality, where you don't just
try your best to be neutral calling a game. You
(00:29):
actually learn over time to have zero emotional attachment to
the outcome. Viewers don't always believe that, but I promise
you it's It's the same checklist every time. You want
a close, competitive game, you want some nice plays to
call for the viewers to enjoy, and you want no
serious injuries from the players. That's the same every time.
(00:49):
And I love my job, but there's something about stepping
away from neutrality and just being a fan and being
heavily emotionally invested. For me, there's just a few things.
At the top of the list is Colorado Avalanche hockey,
Chelsea soccer, and of course the US national men's and
women's soccer team when it comes to big international competitions
(01:11):
like the World Cup. So I record this the morning
after the US has been eliminated in the round of
sixteen by the Netherlands a little deflated. It did happen
during CFB Championship Saturday, when I was about to go
on the air, so the disappointment was buffered. A day
later I could process it. It's a semi qualified success
(01:33):
this World Cup in Qatar for the US. They lost
to a superior team, but the way they lost poor
defending lapses in marking was a little bit of a bummer,
which is why I am so excited to say that
I've got Alexei Lallis as my guest now. Before I
(01:54):
worked with Alexei covering the twenty ten World Cup in
South Africa, and before he went on to success with Fox, Yes,
Alexei was a great, proud, tough, passionate player for the
U S national team, central defender who would score some
strategic goals, usually with his head off that wild mane
of red hair for which he became globally known. So
(02:19):
Alexei was good enough to come on board, share some
old stories, evaluate the US performance, and at the end
we look ahead to the next World Cup, of course,
which the U S will co host with Canada and
Mexico for years from now. He did this just before
going on the set for Vox to set up the
next round of games. So it's the shortest ever episode
(02:40):
of this podcast, but it's jam packed with good info,
good stories, and great to connect with. Mail buddy Alexei
lalas part of this podcast. By the way, it was
hijacked by his colleague, my former colleague and my buddy
Rob Stone. You'll get it when it happens. But in
the meantime, UH storytelling an analysis with Alexei Lallas from Qatar. Alexei,
(03:03):
I am grateful for your time, every minute of it,
and Qatar is accounted for, so it's great to see
your smiling face in the afternoon their morning. Here we'll
tell some stories, will wind the clock back, but I
want to start with what is top of mind for
US soccer fans, and that's your reaction to the World
Cup Round of sixteen, you know, getting out of the
group but following to the Netherlands. I want to ask
(03:25):
you as an analyst, but first someone to ask you
as a as a passionate fan of US soccer, as
a former great who wore that shirt. So not what
do you think about it, but what are you feeling
about it? So the day after elimination yeah, because there's
there's two different you know process is there, right, So
what I think and what I feel about it. You
know what I feel about it is. Look, I've been
(03:45):
around a long time, you know, from back in the
nine back in the previous century, running around, and I've
seen the growth of this sport, and so I feel proud, um,
but I also feel that stuff was left on the table.
And I also feel, for lack of a better word,
it always gets me worried that you know as well
as I do, that people come into this soccer tent
(04:05):
every four years and it's wonderful because we get a
chance to spread the gospel. But you know, then they
leave and the impression that they get is really really
important because it leads to the credibility um and it
ultimately leads to more popularization of the sport. And I
hope that they saw a team that when we know
we all gravitated to it. But I hope that they
(04:26):
saw a team like me that they can be be
proud of. But we also know we're in the American
culture and it's about winning. And while most of the
things when it comes to America, we are number one,
and when we are winners at you know, unlike our
women's national team, our men's national team has not been there.
And so I worry that people either leave the tent
or go away from the tent for a little bit,
thinking that we haven't made progress. But we have made progress,
(04:50):
and I think that this ultimately maybe the time will
be looked at as a step forward. And it's not
about moral victories. I I don't want that anymore. But
this was a very young team. This is a team
also with an eye. So that's that's partly in my head,
you know, and that's how I how I feel about it,
you know how I think about it. You know, I'd
give Gregg Berhalter in this team a B solid B
(05:11):
B plus in terms of what they did going undefeated
in group stage and you know, a very difficult group,
playing really well against England. They just picked the worst
possible moment to have a stinker of a game against Holland,
and still it was there. There was a gift and
we didn't bite the hand, uh and take it right
out of that that Dutch hand. And you know, the
Dutch are a good team and they all they needed
(05:31):
is a couple of chances the ruthlessness that you saw
of the Dutch is something that this team hopefully will
develop over the next four years. Yeah, that's all. Well
put what's tough among other things for US sports fans
of crass but soccer is this sort of like not
knowing how to react about it? Is round of sixteen
good enough? Well? I mean I think the players felt
(05:52):
like there was more. You felt like there was more,
you know, perhaps, And this is this is the story
of the World Cup for so many nations, the what ifs,
would shoulda could have? Had you beaten Wales, had you
won the group, you don't play Holland in the round sixteen,
you have an easier match. I think it would have
been Senegal, right, so, but but they didn't take those chances.
They didn't win the group, and they made it hard.
(06:13):
And it seems like US soccer only knows one way,
and it's the hard way, right, And it's been that
way since Europe Layer. Yeah, it's you know, it's this weird,
purgatory type of place that we we inhabit right now
because yeah, we got out of the group. Well service
First off, qualifying for a men's World Cup is nothing new.
We have done that That's why it was such a
you know, a massive failure four years ago, but it
(06:35):
was kind of an anomaly. And so you get back
to the World Cup and you know, we we were
happy to get back to the World Cup, but it's
something that we've done. Getting out of the group is
also something that we have done consistently, um, but getting
out of that round of sixteen, we've only done that once,
back into in two thousand and two where we were
then we went on which was which was wonderful. And
so you're in this moment where you look back at
(06:56):
history and said, well, we had done better in previous
World Cups, and yet are we more advanced? I mean,
just within this cycle. I think that it's night and
day when it comes to how far this group has
come from that incredible failure of not qualifying for the
two thousand and eighteen World Cup, and it certainly bodes
well for the future. But I think where you know,
a little hesitation is from from me and others is too.
(07:17):
I mean, it's not an a type of effort because
you didn't find a way to win that game, and
that was a winnable game against the Dutch, and you
know they finished their chances. The United States didn't finish
their chances and doing things that we have done as
a soccer play nation for a while. And they're not
And I said it on air, these aren't these involved
type of uh soccer tactics that take decades and decades
(07:42):
to figure out. You follow your men in the box.
I mean, it doesn't matter whether you watch soccer or not.
That's a problem marking men in sports, marking your opponent
in sports, that's you know, that's a constant anywhere. So
that was a little bit disappointing, and not that we lost,
but kind of how we last exactly As a defender
and and as an analyst, when you and you have
three goals conceded and each time the defenses looking around
(08:05):
at each other like what happened? Where were you? I
mean that that does not look good. And I think
that you're right. It was a bad time to follow
asleep against an opponent unlike some of those in the
group stage who can really hurt you. And they made
us pay, and we made Holland look better than they are.
Perhaps who knows, maybe they'll go on and make a run.
I know you've fancied them a little bit as as
a contending team. But that's the one thing is at
(08:26):
the end of the day, um, you know you're not
gonna get many chances, you have to grab them. We
didn't early. But but when you look at the result
of a goal and the team was looking around each
other like, wait a minute, we broke down that that's
what was a little deflating to see. Yeah, and it's
it's you know, it's wide open men in the box
and clear cut chances and and again you know there
(08:47):
there are coaches out there, youth coaches, anybody that's coached
long enough. You talk about being able to watch your
being able to see the ball and being able to
see the man. These are fundamental, basic type of principles
of soccer. And so I think that's you know, that's
where where it's disappointing. Having said all of that, you
know that it was you know, we've we've seen this
before in World Cups, where you know, people come together
(09:08):
and as you know, especially in this day and age,
very little brings us together as a nation. And to
see these, you know, people in their classrooms because this
is the World Cup where it was actually happening during school,
which is something that was unique. So to see the
classrooms and the and the cool teachers and the cool
schools that kind of embraced it and used it even
as lesson plans than all that kind of stuff. And
(09:29):
everybody's screaming and young people in airplanes and obviously the
bars and the fan fests and all that. That was
pretty cool to just see that happen. And sometimes you're
in kind of this this bubble of a World Cup,
and now with this technology age that we live in,
we can see what's happening back home, and um, you know,
I don't have fow move to, you know, because I
get to do the best job in the world here.
(09:49):
But it was kind of cool to see all of
these people celebrating this game back in a country and
culture that you know, we're constantly pushing that boulder up
the hill and it you know, it made my old
stock heart very very happy to see that happening. Absolutely,
I agree, and I can say it from this set
of the Atlantic, the energy was there. And roll Lett's
remember too, it's not easy to progress in the World Cup.
(10:12):
We have one reaction, but but for Germany, for Belgium,
from Mexico, it's an unqualified disaster to be stopped in
group stage. I talk about it in college football. You know,
if if people want a comparison, Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma
not winning their division, not winning their conference, not contending it,
and and that is different because it happens every four years.
(10:35):
And Germany have struggled. So we did something those soccer
powers and much more talented teams didn't do. So yeah,
sixteen teams went home. And you know, look, we've I've
watched Olympics, I've worked Olympics. You you know, you've you've
seen it and worked it. And you know, sometimes when
you see these sports like where it comes down to
you know, ten seconds is the entire you know, synopsis
(10:57):
and uh and career and you're judged on you It
blows your mind sometimes to see that. Obviously soccer is
a little longer in terms of a game, but it
but it still does come down two minutes And is
it right? Is it fair to judge athletes just on
those moments? It doesn't matter, you know, Soccer isn't fair.
In life isn't fair. This is the way the way
that it is. And ultimately Greg Berhalter is the coach
(11:18):
knows this, and these players know that this can be
defining and that we left a little bit on the
table just means that we have, you know, still still
some ways to go. But you know, as the saying goes,
you've come a long way, baby, and soccer certainly has.
And this isn't me being Pollyanna, This isn't me asking
for blind faith out there when it comes to our
(11:38):
soccer teams or just our soccer in general. It's just
maybe some perspective that I've gotten over the years and
seeing how, you know, how the game has played, how
the game is coached, I mean, how even how it's
how it's broadcast, and how that has evolved, you know,
and the world over here in this incredible set for
Fox over here, and you know we've seen over the
years how it's been that broadcast. Then bringing it to
(12:01):
you know, a country and culture that's really really unique
because it's not just about the U. S team. It's
about all of these different teams and are melting pot
that is the United States in the United States and
all this incredible diversity that we have, you know, giving
people their teams and it's not always the the US team,
but ultimately giving them a steady diet of soccer. And
you know, as you mentioned, I still got another two
(12:22):
weeks here and and we've been through this where the
home team goes out and right, and there's this deflating
of the balloon, right, but you gotta pick it up.
And as pros were right back in here today and hell,
you know we got we got France and Embobe here
that I get to call. So I'm incredibly fortunate privilege
to be able to do this messy still in the
tournament where and all of that still in the tournament.
(12:44):
It just goes on and on and on. And if
you really if you got excited about the US team
playing soccer in the World Cup, there's plenty more you
will fall in love with this game. And there's plenty
more as this World Cup goes on, and you know
is coming to and that's gonna be a fun. That's
gonna be a fun and you're both on and off
the field for what it means for soccer in the
United States and to to to a certain stent in
(13:04):
Canada and Mexico. We'll circle back, I want to finish
with that as we look ahead to the next World Cup.
But let's spend back. You and I sat next to
each other in Pretoria, South Africa, for a situation somewhat
similar to the U. S Iran game. They had to
be at Algeria to go through, to not go through.
It had been a disaster. Algeria a very beautiful opponent,
but it wasn't happening, and they had had chances, Us
(13:26):
had had chances. And we're sitting there in this not
a very glamorous stadium, kind of an old stadium, not
one of the show place venues in South Africa, and
we are preparing for a post mortem. Right It's the
last game in the group stage. If they don't get
the win, they go home. It's gonna be crushing. I
can feel the emotion from you next to me. I
(13:46):
didn't play, but obviously I'm emotionally invested. And all of
a sudden, that that goal that landed Donovan scores. He
had Andreas Cantor as a guest in the podcast. He
talked about calling it in Spanish. I've talked to, obviously,
lots of folks who have experience, and you said ten seconds,
and that was a ten seconds change the World Cup, change,
the life of Donovan and so many other players. But
(14:07):
but that emotional ride, we we were we were deflated, depressed,
and then there were literally tears of joy I think
from you after Donovan scot and we won the group.
It was nuts, it was not And you know, listen,
I had so much fun, you know, working with you
and others, and I learned so much from you. And
obviously I've I've continued on and and you know, being
with Fox and working World Cups, Men's and women's and
(14:29):
stuff like that. But you know, TV is something that
I have been so fortunate to come into and to
learn from the likes of you and and other greats,
whether it was ESPN and at Fox, and continue on
and to see you guys work and to understand what
goes on and how the sausage is made. Um, it
was incredibly changing in terms of the way that I
(14:51):
did did my job. And then you know, to be
talking about a game that I love at at a
World Cup in these incredible moments, and to experience that
emotion now not as a player, but talking about it
and you know, hopefully being able to in a you know,
a to be able to articulate and to be able
to tell the story in in you know, hopefully an
(15:14):
interesting and entertaining type of way. Um. You know, talk
about coming a long way. I've come along a long
way since then, but a lot of the foundation that
I still use today with stuff that I learned with
you and others and others there. It literally changed the
way that I that I do my job because I
understood how it was done. But you never you never
lose that love and that, you know, the beauty that
(15:36):
comes from the game, the passion that you have, the
emotion that comes out, and and it's you can't control
it con apologize for one second about having the wrong emotion.
Fans look to you for that. That's a moment where
they could say, Alexei Lallas, I remember him playing, but
he's one of us too, because you're allowed to care
in the World Cup and that kind of a moment, Alexei,
(15:57):
where we weren't calling it, We're just watching it and
then getting ready to react to it. But that kind
of a thing where where careers change on a dime
because at one ball put in the net just in
the nick of time, and I thought that was a
beautiful woman. I've talked about that where you know, hey,
it's okay to get choked up. Yeah, we have to
have some distance, and you've become this wise stage, you know,
(16:20):
delivering perspective. It only comes over time. I think that's
that's sort of your your role in a in a
knee jerk, no context reaction, short attention span world, that's
what you're there to sort of counter, I think, in
your role. But in that moment in ship, I mean
that we were prepared to do a post mortem and
it was a celebration that was fun. And don't don't
(16:41):
never lose the rawness and the heart that you bring
to it. Man, I am preciate. I can't. I mean,
even if I tried, I couldn't. I I couldn't do it.
And and sometimes you know when when all the crap
is flying around and you know you're you're incredible at
being able to still get the job done with all
the craziness sometimes that live sports bring. And that's why
(17:01):
I know you love live sports. I love live sports,
and there's there's nothing like it. And it is becoming
actually more and more unique and valuable as we go
on in this in this world that seems to be
packaged to end and already kind of predestined live sports
are where it's at because you don't know what is
going to happen, and you need people like yourself to
(17:22):
be able to steer the ship and make sure that
people stay on course, but also, like you said, to
recognize the emotion, recognize the moment and what the moment needs,
and to to paint a picture. And you know, ultimately,
you know, you're you're an artist in your own right
in the way that you do things. And I like
to think we're all kind of painting this picture. Sometimes
it's a better picture than other pictures, and sometimes we
(17:43):
get it right, sometimes we don't, But you know, we
are living it, and the people are watching us living it,
and we are for the time being, they're still using
human beings, and as long as they do, you know,
we're gonna have emotion and passion involved in what we do. Yeah,
I mean, technology calls off size, but humans will always
describe the action on the field. Yeah, you're very kind.
(18:03):
I mean, I learned so much from you and from
this collection of global rock stars that we assembled in
South Africa and other World Cups. But I think that's
where we kind of first brought ESPN resources to Bear,
and then you had Rude Hullett, and you had Steve McManaman,
and you had Jurgen Klinsman, and you had Roberto Martinez
a lot of soccer brain power. But all these nations represented.
(18:25):
All these dudes were, you know, multi millionaires who had
global brands because of their success on the field. You're
representing America to an American audience. But but in the
global game, what was that like? You know, sitting there
with with that collection of personalities who, by the way,
did their job all day and night and then went
out and enjoyed South Africa as only they could. I mean,
(18:46):
for me, that was like a life changing moment. Incredibly
proud to be the host of that coverage. I will
always put that very very near the top of the resume.
But what was that like for you to sit in
that desk with that characaustic here and then go off
go off into the night with them to right? Yeah,
I mean, it's it's so much fun because obviously you
see these players and they are acts players and what
(19:07):
they have done on the field, and you associate moments
in your life. Sometimes you might have played against them
or idolized them growing up and watched them, and then
you you get to know them as people and obviously
as colleagues working, and there is a great equalization process
process that happens because while you might have the cachet
of what you've done on the field, ultimately now you're
(19:28):
in the TV world and you've got to bring it
again and to see how some do and some don't,
and some like it, some dope, some don't. I mean, look,
I am so fortunate to be able to do what
I do. I get you know, players sometimes asked me
about it all the time, and I said, listen, if
you can find a jumping off point, um, great, because
your career might not end when you want it. But
(19:49):
I'm so fortunate because I've found something that excites me
as much and even in certain ways even more jacks
me up than playing. In terms of television, it's not
for every some people. You know, it's easy from the couch,
we all, we all know that. But when you when
you find something like that, you hold onto it and
you know they can pry it from my cold dead hands.
(20:10):
And listen, they're coming, all the young and are coming
right now. But to be able to work with all
of these legends and understand how they think about the
game and to get their insight, especially when they're good
on television, because it's one thing to be good in
the bar, it's another thing actually be good on television.
That's awesome. That's us. And now we have more and more,
especially of these American legends. You know, here a Fox,
I'm working with Landon Donovan and Contempse and Reesa do
(20:31):
and these types of players that have been there and done.
You know, we were just talking about the Landon Donovan
moment that is iconic, and now I'm sitting next to
him and he's talking about what he sees on the field,
and so it's it's wonderful that, you know, I'm kind
of the the old guy, the old I don't know
if I'm a sage or anything, but I'm the old guy.
But to see it happen. And then the international aspect
(20:52):
of the game that I know you love and I
love because you know, it's there're very few sports out
there that have this international aspect of it. Tennis maybe
to us certain extent um, but it means that you
have all these different you know, countries and cultures coming
together and sometimes that is reflected in the broadcast that
you do um, and it's cool. It's cool to see
how they think about the game. It's also a wonderful
(21:13):
moment when they experienced American television for the first time
and the reality says, you know, and you you see
the wheels starting to spin as they figure out, Wow,
I'm not in Kansas anymore. And this is maybe a
very very different type of broadcast, daily schedule and performance
that I'm used to, and and broadcast executive behavior some
of the guys. I don't think we're used to the
(21:34):
intensity of some of the cast of characters we had.
You know, you mentioned the global nature. I hope fans
listening and fans who watch on their couch in this
country do get a chance to go abroad and experience,
whether it's a US game or a World Cup or
Champions League final, or or a Premier League game or
something where you see culture is coming together and this
(21:56):
shared language of soccer. It's been said it's somewhat trite
in my ends of some people, but it's so real
and I get chills thinking about the moments around the
world where where you're in a bar in the northern
part of Chile, you know, watching them play Argentina. There's
so many examples of that, and it's such a beautiful,
you know, menu of experiences to have that people open
(22:17):
themselves up. And I'm glad you talked about the global
nature of it because that that is so rich and
it's so unique. Yes, there's tennis, but that's not the
same as an individual sport versus watching your country out
there running around. I mean, look, I always tell the
story of when I was a kid. I used to
go out and I grew up in the suburbs of Detroit,
grew up with you know, slurprites and MTV and you know,
(22:38):
going to see rats played down at the Kobol Hall
or Joe Louis Arena or whatever. And you know, I
would go out when I was a kid and I
would jug on my ball on my sidewalk in front
of my house here in suburban Detroit, and it always,
you know, it wasn't lost on me. You've been a
young age that there's a kid on the other side
of the world that I have absolutely nothing in common
(22:59):
with sept this game. And that always fascinated me because look,
I grew up in all the different sports. I was
huge I actually played more hockey growing up in soccer,
and it's the law and Detroit obviously in in Michigan,
but the fact that this was an international game that
really really appealed to me. Look, I I am incredibly
uh you know, privileged and happening fortunate to come from
(23:20):
what I feel is the greatest country in the world,
in the United States. But I also recognized that, you know,
we are citizens of the world and that world play
soccer and that connection that this game brings. I think
it's it's wonderful from an international perspective, but it's also domestically.
You know, when people gravitate towards this team and towards
this tournament and towards this sport, a lot of times
(23:40):
it's that there's this feeling that we are connected, we
are something bigger than just the United States, and not
all our sports are able to do that, and maybe
this is the unique sport that is able to able
to do that. And it doesn't mean you have any
less uh pride or affinity for the country or your phone.
As a matter of fact, you can celebrate that country
within the context of this game that the rest of
(24:00):
the world is also celebrating. I hope people listening will
understand that before they were watching you on TV, you
were running around playing and it was more than just
the red hair and the beard. I mean, I want
to ask you what it felt like, Alexei to wear
the U S shirt. You're talking about the background you
came from, your your love of soccer at a young age.
But to get to the pinnacle of soccer in the
U S and to wear that shirt and to score
(24:23):
a goal against Argentina in a win in Copa America,
to score a goal against England and a victory at
International and then to put on those crazy stonewashed blue
denim looking stars and stripes kits in nten ninety four,
controversial to this day, loved by some, reviled by many.
But to put that shirt on and you want to
(24:44):
say Hi, Chris Bowler, Rob Stone, Oh my goodness, Rob
Stone is stunner. I wish people can't see this who
are listening, But Robson has jumped into the front one.
What this one is? Yeah, they're they're clean, they're clean.
What's going on? And you're sharing earbuds over in Qatar?
(25:05):
That is that is team love, Lily. He just asked
me about the denim kip back in the nineteen hundreds,
it was it was incredible. Yes, so yeah, I was
running around with a whole lot more hair back then.
It was. It was wonderful. But we've come a long,
long long way. Working Are we doing something? We're doing
a podcast? Thank you for a podcast? Pod pod what? Yes?
(25:29):
They It doesn't even there's no real real tape the
way you used to do back and when you are
ready ESPN, you know, running tapes all over the place.
It isn't even involved. It's a it's a fledgling thing.
Just a few of us have these podcasts. It's just
starting out. But but yeah, thanks for jumping people tops
and eleven people you know, I mean, and just they
just communicate back and forth. The people want to download.
(25:52):
It's cold downloading download automatically like Napster down like Napster.
The automatically appears on their the mobile phones, not that
the rotary phones that we're talking about. That are you guys?
Are you guys punchy already? I sent some punchiness from
working together whatever. You're already in a sixteen? How come
(26:12):
I wasn't invited to this? Why you gotta go with
the big time. You didn't you didn't return my text, Rob, Yeah,
all right, right, Chris Fowler and I go way wait,
give a story before I'm gonna give you this. This
guy's family raised Golden Retrievers, and I got a beautiful
Golden Retriever of puppy that I gave to my mom because, um,
(26:35):
we had two previous Golden's who were not doing well.
And so this dog, this dog we named Higgins, um
gotten from the Stone family, bravely put in a little
cage and flew in a plane from Connecticut to Colorado.
Gave my mom years of joy. Was there her companion.
She began to struggle with Alzheimer's and but helped the
quality of her life. So thank you to Robin the
(26:58):
Stone family for the gift of a Golden Retriever. You
didn't expect that in our kitchen, beautiful beautiful Golden retriever.
So has has LEXI tried tend on Prime Time heading
the Boder Yet we haven't. We haven't talked about that
(27:18):
piece of college football news, and I'm not sure we will.
But I went on the Horny Frog. So the Horny Frog.
This thing, it's unbelievable. It's like I'm talking to a
guy who played at Newcastle and has no idea what
universities are. And you want the Rutgers University for crying
a Big ten. The Rutgers are in the Big ten conference.
They they got us for our education, not our football, evidently.
(27:42):
But I love you, but you've give them the ear
bed we got. We gotta get back to sucker a
little bit here. What I'm doing, I gotta I gotta
go work here. He's been telling me your time is precious, man,
keep it doing your You're an awesome job. I'm allowed
to say I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you.
All right, I got, I got, I got two minutes,
I got two minutes really big, you know what that's got.
(28:03):
I'm gonna don't worry. I'm gonna watch this thing off.
Don't you worry? All right? But the feeling of wearing
the shirt, even though the shirt was funky and representing
your country, and you know, back in the day they
would have called it building a brand, but you were
just doing what I did with exuberance and energy, and
the look didn't hurt either. But man, to take me
back to that that feeling of reap in your country. Yeah,
(28:27):
never has so much been done with a modicum of
talent and uh, you know, a lot of hair and
a goatee and a guitar. Um. Look to your point,
I grew up in the eighties and I grew up
watching you know, MTV, and you know, the um the
aesthetic was very, very important, and I incorporated that into
(28:47):
I mean, I've always considered myself an entertainer. You know,
you you rehearse, which is basically practiced, right, you take
it out on stage, which is basically the field. You
go in front of an audience, which is basically the crowd.
You put on a costume which is your uniform, and
then you perform. And you want that type of interaction.
You want to be seen, You want to be noticed,
and you want to do whatever act it is that
(29:08):
you do to the best of the best of your ability.
But you add the the other part of it, which is,
you know, the opportunity to represents your country, and it
is it is not lost on me. Um. You know
how few of us get that opportunity and incredible privilege
And there is nothing like putting on that jersey, walking
out on that field, putting your hand over your heart
(29:30):
and singing that national anthem and hearing the reaction from
the people, and you know, the score at a certain
point doesn't matter um to a certain extent, because you
are representing everything that we hold dear as a country
on the international stage. And I'll never forget that. I
(29:50):
never took it for granted so many times that that
I did it. If I could continue to do it,
I would. And it still gets me each and every
time when I see, you know, these young men and
the his own women go out there and represent our
country and within that Then to your point, I think
we talked about it earlier, the potential for their lives
to change. I mean, I'm sitting here in Dohak guitar
(30:10):
talking to Chris Fowler here on on zoom because of
the World Cups. It changed my life forever. I lived
the power of what a World Cup continue to an individual.
My life was never the same. And I love that I'm,
you know, talking about the World Cups now and that
there are players that in this World Cup, there will
be players in the World Cup in the US where
their life is going to change. It's a it's a
(30:32):
wonderful and amazing thing, and very few of us get
that opportunity. You talked about sports competition as performance, and
just the same way that another dear friend and colleague,
John mckinnur talks about it. He always felt like being
on the court was like performing, And like you, he's
a musician. His passion I think for music is almost
as strong as it is for tennis. And he views
(30:53):
it the same way, and and it makes me wonder though.
But you, you're perhaps being too modest. Although some of
your fame and notoriety came from the look these long
flowing red locks in the beard, there was the quality
of your play there, the intensity that you brought, the
physicality that you brought to it. You're not sitting here
telling me that if you'd had a red crew cut
(31:13):
and no beer, that you wouldn't have been Uh one
of the stories of the night before World Cup in
your life would have change? Would you? No? I mean,
I'd like to think that I had a little uh
skill and ability when in talent when it comes to
the actual playing of the game. But you know, the
the package is important, and just because you recognize it,
(31:34):
you know when I when I say that I'm an
entertainer sometimes, you know, that's not a pejorative, that is
an actual understanding of the theater that this that sports
is and can be. And I know sometimes people cringe
at that, but I leaned into it. I recognized it.
(31:55):
And in no way did that mean that anything that
I did, or the thing is that I wore, the
way that I looked was was not authentic or credible
or honest. I was incredibly comfortable in this costume and
in this persona and in this brand that I was creating,
and it, uh, you know, it worked for me. Yeah.
I think that some people do get offended when they
(32:16):
view it as as as theater or entertainment, and that's
it's nonsense. I mean, you the more year around it,
more you understand, Yes, it doesn't. You should not get
in the way of being a team guy, of competing,
of trying to be ahead in the scoreboard. But it
never did for you. And I think you recognize before
a lot of people that hey, you know, whether it's
just you know, being yourself or being yourself times x,
(32:38):
or you know, building a brand, whatever it is, it
worked for you beautifully and it continues too. So no,
don't ever apologize for that. UM is gonna wrap it up.
I gotta go to work, my man. People, last thing,
I know your time is valuable. UM. It's our shortest
episode ever, but I'm very very gratefully making time spin ahead.
We we talked briefly about the World Cup, which the
U S will co host with Canada and Mexico, not
(33:01):
just for the U S team, but what it's going
to be like to have the World Cup back on
US soil and a very different climate than the last
time that we hosted it hopefully. Yeah. I mean, look,
this is a wonderful ramp rate up to this incredible platform, uh,
to help change the sport and again move it forward. UH.
And it is a very very different scene than it
(33:22):
was back in the Women's World Cup, two very seminal
moments in terms of the perception of the sport. And
so the world is coming back to a U S.
And like we said of Canada and Mexico, that has
fundamentally changed. The United States is a soccer nation. Okay,
we don't have to apologize, UM, you know, we we
can shed our insecurities and our inferiority complexes when it
(33:43):
comes to what we are, and you know, we have
a supporters culture, we have a knowledge you know, I
think the American soccer fan is as knowledgeable and maybe
more knowledgeable than others, just out of necessity. And it's
all coming back to the United States. And keep in mind,
the Night four World Cup was the most successful World
Cup ever in terms of crowds, in terms of the
(34:04):
money that it generated. And this is gonna blow it
out of the water in twenty six and it's gonna
be it's gonna be wonderful. Because look, I'll leave you
with this story. So back in weeks before the World Cup,
I got on a plane and I sat in the
middle seat because that's what we did, right, And I
had in my US pullo on and I sat down
next to an older woman and she turned to me
said what she said, what do you do? I said,
(34:24):
to play soccer. She said, well, what's your job? I
said about play soccer, And she said, what do you
do for money? I said, I play soccer. And two
weeks later, I'm in front of a billion people at
the World Cup. Now that lady might have seen it
a couple of weeks later, but the reality is that
it's a whole generation that has grown up with soccer
is part of their sports palt and that's wonderful and
(34:45):
that's progress, that's evolution. And so this World Cup is
coming back in twenty six. It's gonna be bigger and
better than anything that we've seen. But it's coming back
to a US that is a soccer nation and has
plenty of culture, um and plenty of plenty of them
ocean and passion for this game. It's unique. It's American,
as I said, never ever apologize for that, whether you
(35:06):
don't ever apologize for calling it soccer or or any
of the other stuff that we yell and scream about it.
It's our own version of soccer. But it's a it's
the game obviously, it's played around the world, and we're
going to invite everybody into that tent once again, and
hopefully that ten's just gonna get bigger and bigger, and
hopefully a US team that will not be the youngest
of the World Cup in four years. These players can
learn and grow from the experience playing abroad and and
(35:27):
certainly building that enthusiasm and in that World Cup. Alexie,
I think you joined me around a six team, won't
be good enough. Not in four years, not with more development.
I think they're gonna be higher expectations and hopefully higher
level of performance from the home team. When that happens,
we should expect more from our home team. We should
expect more from these young players that have been given
every opportunity and resources halfway and with that comes to
(35:49):
higher expectations, and I think that they can live up
to it. This is a team that believes that they
are destined for greater things. And that's good. I mean,
whether that sports or anything. You want more for your
I guess children that I can call them, but they
are really you know. I mean, we took it as
far as we could, and this is a new generation
that believes that they can do great things and much
better things than we ever did. And that's progress, and
(36:10):
that's all that I ever wanted. All right, get back
to our keep up the great job. I'll be watching him.
Very grateful for your time for Squeeze and gets in
from Qatar and sharing some old stories and bringing back
some very nice memories for me. Appreciate Alexei. You're the best,
my friend. Thank you so much, And just like that,
away Alexei went. We stopped the recording. I turned on
the TV a few minutes later and there he was
(36:32):
on the set with the team talking about France versus Poland.
So I'm very grateful for his time. This episode obviously
was a sprint, but his schedule is so busy. Covering
a World Cup is just about unlike anything else in
TV sports. He were in the same hotel room for
about forty days and he has got a ways to go.
December eighteen is the World Cup final. Next time we've
(36:55):
got the season five finale episode. I'm so excited about this.
It's a year in the making. James Clear author of
the global bestseller Atomic Habits, and he is such a
smart guy. James is really in the forefront of self improvement,
developing good habits, kicking bad habits, becoming more productive, doing
(37:20):
more with less time, and a lot more so. Whether
or not you've read Atomic Habits, and I recommend that
you do, you'll get a lot out of this episode.
Our season five finale is coming up. As always, deeply
grateful for my co executive producer Jennifer Dempster and for
Octagon for editing the episode. We'll talk to you soon
(37:41):
for the season finale,
Host
Chris Fowler
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