MARCUS FREEMAN: Meeting the Moment

Raised in a family of hard work, sacrifice, love, and respect prepared Notre Dame’s 36 year old first year head coach for the opportunity of a lifetime.How this New Era coach is pursuing a championship and balancing massive new responsibilities while he and his wife raise six kids.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to season five of Fowler. Who You Got? I
hope your summer was fun and fulfilling. Mine certainly was.
But what's got me excited now? Football season is here,
and who I've got for the season's first episode is
the first football coach guest we have ever had, the
first year coach of the Fighting Irish, Marcus Freeman. Now

(00:29):
to call him a fast rising star in the profession
is understating it. At age thirty six, after just one
season at Notre Dame, Marcus was promoted from defensive coordinator
to head coach of the world's most famous college football
program when Brian Kelly suddenly left for l s U
right before the bowl game. We'll talk about what will
define success for his team and for him, what being

(00:52):
a new age players coach means to him, about growing
up in a household of hard work, discipline, sacrifice, love
and respect, and how he's balancing massive new responsibilities well
he and his wife, Joanna are raising six kids. At
the end of our conversation, another first, Marcus turned the
tables and interviewed me. Marcus, I'm so grateful for your

(01:16):
time and so much to cover, but I want to
start with meeting the moment, because so many of us
have moments to meet in our lives, and in some
ways they define the course of our lives. If you
have a moment as massive as the chance to prove
yourself as worthy of being named head coach and Notre Dame,
but what kind of qualities that you have helped you

(01:40):
be able to meet that moment? In your conversations with
father John Jenkins, the president of Notre Dame and Jack Swarbrick,
the athletic director, to put you in the position to
have this opportunity, person, I wish I could tell you
it was one thing. Uh, you know, I don't know
exactly what it was. I kind of go back and
you reflect and you look at your journey and in

(02:00):
um I tell coaches all the time because everybody's looking
for that magical formula, what is it? What do you
have to do to put yourself in that position? Man?
And I think there's two things. You gotta work really hard, right,
You gotta work really hard where you're at, no matter
what you're doing. But I think you have to make
good decisions. And you don't know sometimes what exactly are
those good decisions until you can go back and reflect.

(02:23):
You know, I wanted to be the best g I
could be when I was at Ohio State, and I
wanted to be the best linebackers coach at Kinst State
and Purdue, and I go to Cincinnati and you work
really hard and you're focus, and then you always look
at those opportunities that present themselves and you you justify
whatever the reasoning is to yourself. Um, and I hope
that it's a reflection of hard work. You you try

(02:46):
to continue to gain knowledge, and you know you can
try to continue to grow, but you make really good decisions.
Well you're get nowhere, you funk the test if you're
not prepared. Obviously preparation what you went through you have done,
and then you have to have the presentation of that
and you have to have the instincts probably to know
what is the right thing in the moment, because as

(03:07):
a thirty six year old guy who's not been a
head coach before, that's not the model higher for Notre
Dame as a head coach, at least historically has not been.
So you have to convince people to trust you, to
believe in you, and take a risk, because let's face it,
you were a little bit of a risky higher just
because the resume doesn't look the same as some other guys.

(03:28):
A lot of it, that's a lot of bit of Yeah.
You know, I hope every day I was here, um,
and maybe even before I was here, I was on
a job interview, you know, I hope that no matter
when somebody was observed in Marcus Freeman, that they said, Okay,
this is a man at some point and some day
could could lead this program. And part of that is

(03:50):
loving our players. Part of that is again as I
said earlier, work entireslely but trying to do the best
job I can. It is the deepest a coordinator of
this place, treating people with respect and and um, hopefully
those actions speak for themselves in terms of being able to,
you know, not win the interview, but tell a story
about who Marcus Freeman is wild here. You believe in

(04:11):
self talk. You say you gain energy from self talk.
I don't know if it's out loud or it's just
inside your head. What were the self talks like before
you go into these these crucial job interviews, these opportunities
where you can cement it or let's be honest, like
all of us, you could blow it in the in
those moments, what self talks did you have? Well, I

(04:33):
think it goes for me. It will always run back
to preparation, and so moments before and in days, before,
hours however long it is that you have to prepare,
You prepare, you prepare for, you prepare. But then when
you go into that job interview to meet, you have
to be yourself. You have to be the same person
that got you into this chair. But you have a

(04:53):
sense of confidence when you feel prepared. I always tell
everybody try to mention young people. Preparation is confident, So
it doesn't guarantee success, but it provides you that foundation
to believe in yourself while still being humble. Humility and
confidence balance. I think it's an interesting thing. So finally, Marcus,
you get to share with your team what you've known
for about a day and a half, which is you're

(05:14):
gonna be the next head coach at the most world
famous football program there is Notre Dame. They're told to
report for a team run and then there's the big
reveal and man, that video is just pure goal for
any of this that love and appreciate sports, And you
get to like bounce into the room and kind of
bounce into their arms. And very few of us will

(05:34):
get to experience that kind of a moment. Take us
through it. Oh. I remember, probably about five minutes before
I walked in there, I addressed um, the entire football staff,
everybody that is involved with our football program, and you know,
told him how humble and honor I am to be

(05:55):
the leader. And then I remember we're walking back way,
the back way through the tunnel, um to go into
the locker room at Notre Dame Stadium, and uh, you
know there was there was to say, There wasn't butterflies,
I would be lying. And you know, as I heard
Coach Bayliss our strength coach kind of a dressing the group,
you know, I know my heart was beating and I

(06:16):
wish I could go back and do it all over again, right.
I just wish you can wake up every day and
relive that moment. But um, I just knew when that
door open, UM, I wanted to embrace them. You know,
I didn't want to say a speech. I didn't want to,
you know, all of a sudden say hey, here's the
new culture, here's what we're gonna do. I just wanted
to embrace those guys because those are your players. Those

(06:37):
it's you know, there's this misconception that you don't get
your guys until you recruit them. No, the minute your
name had coached, those are your guys, and so the
ability to to embrace them, to be with them. My
family was there in the background. Um, it was a
surreal feeling that I'll never forget. Yeah, that's that is
an unforgettable video which I would encourage people to seek
out on YouTube if you haven't seen it. Look, most

(07:00):
people who come in as new coaches inherit problems inherent
rebuilding situations. They don't INHERIT eleven and one teams with
a solid corps of leaders and veterans. And you did
get that amazing opportunity nevertheless in Notre Dame. Yet you
also had a team that felt to some degree, to
verying degrees, angry hurt by Brian Kelly's departure. He made

(07:25):
a position for himself. Players have a hard time sometimes
coming to grips with that stuff, so there needed to
be some I would think healing and mending done right
away on the spot, with the Bowl game coming up
and some seniors playing their last game in Notre Dame. Well,
I wanted to make this about the seniors. I wanted
to make it about Notre Dame because it it's really

(07:46):
easily to associate a football program with a head coach, Um,
but it's to me, it's about the program, and it's
about these kids, and it's about the seniors that have
been here four or five years and really um bled
for this program. And so that's what I wanted to
make sure that this vocal the focus was is that, Hey,
we wanted to finish that bowl game as as champions.

(08:08):
Unfortunately didn't. We didn't we didn't win that game. But
I think the process from the minute I was named
head coach to um that bowl game was just to
let's focus on the present, focus on the seams, focused,
focus on finishing this season off the right way, and
you know what we're going to change. We're gonna change,
We're gonna do the things that I believe it takes
to have success. Um. We're not going to erase Brian

(08:31):
Kelly right here. He did amazing things for this program
in eleven years. And as you said, you take over
a team that finished last season before the bowl game
number five in the country and so UM, it's unbelievable
where this program is at. And and but now it's
my opportunity to lead this program to in a way
that that I feel as best to my leadership style

(08:53):
and to UM the type of kids that we have.
And so I'm gonna trust the things in the way
I led to get me here. I'm going to continuously
try to learn UM ways to enhance the way I
as a leader, and uh, we'll see what results come
from that. Let's talk about your leadership style. When the
players have a player's only meeting and seven captains go

(09:15):
to the a D and say we want coach Freeman
and you are the player's choice. Players coach sort of
the layer as a label that comes along with that,
along with someone who's as young as you are now.
Players coach means different things in college ball, the NFL,
the NBA, old school college football coaches don't necessarily consider
players coach a compliment. I know you have your own

(09:38):
spin on that. What is players coach to? Well, it's
not the definition that Lou Holtz dead. And the first
time I met the hold Um, I remember the first
thing he said was, Marcus, I can tell you one
thing my players would never call me a players coach,
And I said, oh, coach, you know, and I just
started laughing. Um, but here's what I hope it it.

(10:02):
I embrace being a players coach in my terms right,
and that there is no great coaches without great players.
And I tell these guys and I hope not just
through my words, but through my action, and said, I'm
a teammate. I'm a teammate, I'm the captain. I get it.
I set the standards, I hold people accountable. I'm the
guy that has to continue to evaluate our standards and
different things that are gonna help us achieve our goals.
But I'm in the fight with you. There is no

(10:25):
one person that's more important than another. And when we
have success, I want to be the first one that
stance because of you, and we have failures, I'm gonna
be the first one to say, what didn't I do
as an individual to make sure that we had a
chance to have success. And that's what I hope those
around me too. I hope our players do the same thing.
I hope our coaches do the same thing. And so
I am a player's coach. Um, I love them, I

(10:47):
respect them, but my job is to help him reach
their goals too, And in order to do that, you're
gonna have to be very demanding. You're gonna have to
make sure that, um, you hold every person in this
organization to the standards that you set and so um
that to me is part of my role. You know what.
My part of my role is to make sure that
they reached their current goals and their future goals. So

(11:07):
how can I make sure that I do everything in
my power to help them become national champions, help them
developed the NFL football players, but also help them learn
um different opportunities that they could take advantage of while
they're here that will help them in life after football.
And so all those different things in compass to me
what the players coaches, you've expressed that you have a
lot to learn and you're gonna make mistakes. We all

(11:28):
know that's a part of any growth curve, especially a
job it is extremely demanding, like like head coach at
Notre Dame, and that you need to learn from those mistakes.
At what point can you hope to get to a
place in this growth curve where mistake avoidance isn't the
top thing and you can just kind of let it

(11:49):
go and try to be as close to perfect as
you can be. I mean that that's a high bar,
but we all go through periods where I just I
don't want to make this mistake, I don't want to
screw this up. And that that's a tough place to
kind of navigate through, isn't it. Yeah, it definitely is.
And um, I think you're always in a place where
you're trying to avoid mistakes, you know, and that, um,

(12:11):
but I think a part of it is is how
can you prepare as hard as you can to learn
some of those things that you don't have to learn um,
post game right or post experience. And so that's gaining
knowledge from other people that have done it, gaining knowledge
from those that have wisdom to give you in in
you know, really learning from other individual success and so mistakes,

(12:33):
and that's something that I really, um, I try to do.
But the mistakes are gonna happen. It's about learning from
it's about growing from them in amount, not making them
twice and not making too many of them. Yeah. No,
we never stopped making mistakes or trying to avoid them,
but I think that sometimes we're just the top of
mind is don't make a mistake. You don't want you

(12:54):
don't want your players to be like that in the field.
You can't go out in the field and worry about
you don't make a mistake. And that's just out the
way to succeed in football or anything else. So I
hear what you're saying. The big finish, I think a
big part is looking back reevaluate and say what didn't
we do or what did we do that's going to
help us in the future. That's something that we have

(13:16):
to continuously do, right and that you know, I'm not
looking at the Oklahoma State bleeding up to their saying
what mistakes can I make? You know, with the negative mindset,
and but when you look back and say, Okay, what
things can we learn from that game, from that process
of preparation? Right the game and so many different examples,
and we gotta be able to go back and reflect.
You want to be able to do that after wins, right,

(13:38):
those are the best times that you can go back
and reflect and learn from those um those moments after victories.
But you don't want him defeat. I think you have
to do it too. I want to talk about your background.
It's a background where you were shown from day one.
I guess hard work, discipline, commitment, and sacrifice. Your dad
was in the Air Force, I think for twenty six years. Um,
your mom arrived from Korea as an immigrant and seventy

(14:00):
six and had to work. I heard you say, three
different jobs. So describe what you saw from them and
how that made you feel as a kid, and how
you've carried that fourth into adulthood and as a coach. Yeah. Still,
my father was forty three, um when my mother had me,
and he was retired, and um, he was a coach.

(14:21):
He he was our youth league coach. Um, you know,
but he was tough. He's a tough guy, very um,
discipline oriented, was was a firm believer. And you just
outwork your competition. You love your family, You treat people
with respect, but you you're you're never outworked. And um
sometimes his leadership wise was by example. And he woke

(14:41):
me and my brother up early in the morning and
while he was finishing his workouts, we were running in
place and uh, you know, our workouts began finished and
so placed in the room there and I heard I
heard you say the dad had a weight bench in
the dining room. That is a snapschat that says a
lot about the family. It's actually, uh, we're gonna do

(15:02):
a there's a stegment on college game day that I
think they're gonna try to get back and show up
a picture of it. I'm sure there's some evidence around
he he says, it wasn't as as strict as as
I make it seem to be. But um, I beg
to differ. I know how I remember it, you know,
versus how he may remember it. And and but then
you look at my mother, you know, and and she

(15:26):
to me spoke good English. But now that you go back,
sometimes you say, hey, it might have been broken English.
And and um, but she just worked tiresly and she
loved her family, and she would remember go to work.
She was probably here on her way to work or
leaving shortly after. We were up at five thirty working out.
And you know, on weekend she had another job with

(15:47):
her Korean friends, and then a night job being a custodian.
And I remember when she came home, she would always
cook an American meal for my father and sometimes for us,
me and my brother, and then she would make a
Korean mail for her and you know, me, I was.
I was bigger back then, and so I would probably
some of the American meal and some of the Korean
male and that's how I got to where I was.

(16:08):
But the sacrifice, the sacrifice you would make, the selflessness
that she had, the love she had for her family
is something I always remember. Yeah, you said that she
made everyone feel important, and that's something you tried to
carry across. I like a My Angelo quote where people
will remember primarily how you made them feel more even
than what you did or what you said to them.

(16:30):
And obviously you had to make people feel comfortable in
yourself to get this job. College football coach probably manages
more people than any other coaching job in the world
that I can think of, just because the roster sizes
double that of the NFL, etcetera. How do you strive
to make everyone on that group in that organization feel important? Well,

(16:52):
I think it starts with treat people with respect. And
you can be demanding, you can be clear on expectations,
you can address issue us um with honesty and openness,
and still treat people with respect. You know, please and
think I stay at all the time to our staff
saying please and thank you. UM it shouldn't be a
reminder that I have to give to others, but it's

(17:13):
something that we have to do, you know, to be
respectful of others. And that's just the way I was raised,
you know. Now, I think the other part of it
is being very clear on your standards and very clear
on it what you expect. And to other part is
we have to meet right now. Being fresh, Brian new
we have to meet constantly so everybody understands exactly what

(17:33):
the expectations are. We cannot assume I cannot assume everybody
knows exactly what I want. We have to meet daily
to make sure we're on the same page. We address
any issues that may arose from the day before, and
everybody's clear on the responsibilities, and so that's something I've
been doing. It's probably a little bit different than when
coach Kayla was here, being here eleven years, you know,

(17:53):
his expectations were very clear, you know, and and everybody
knew exactly what he expected. Whereas with me, I think
being new to being the first year head coach, we
all have to meet day. We have to make sure
we we visit what happened the day before, we're on
the same page. On what's going to happen today and
where we are moving forward. You're an excellent college football
player at Ohio State, four year letterman, three years as

(18:16):
a starter at linebacker, among the top tacklers, and the
team you go to the league give it a chance.
But then your career suddenly ends with a physical with
the Indianapolis Colts when they discover an enlarge valve in
your heart, and right away your dreams of playing football
are taken away instantly. How does that shape how you
are as a coach and how you relate to young
people who believe that football will last forever. Yeah, I

(18:39):
think you know. The biggest thing is is I remember
back to when I was playinger or be even before
I was college. My only focus was on playing the
game at the highest level, trying to go to the NFL,
trying to win national championships. You didn't think about life
after football, because I think there was this misconception that hey,

(19:00):
if you start to think about life after football, you're
not gonna give yourself the best chance to have success.
And I tell our players off, that's a crazy wind thing, right,
And then you can work tiresly, you can do everything
in your power to make sure you're the most successful
football player you can be. But it's a shame if
you don't utilize this network and utilize this degree and
utilize the opportunities you have while you're here. And so

(19:22):
I spend enormous amount of time of telling them it's okay,
use it. It's encouraged use your network because at some moment,
it's a guarantee the game of football is gonna be over,
and it's not it's scary to kind of try to
figure out what you're gonna do after football when it's
already over. You know, utilize this opportunity to kind of
figure out what passions you have, what connections you have

(19:45):
that can help you in that transition when you're done.
And so I love being head coach here because you're
able to offer so many different opportunities for these young
guys to have um opportunities connect with other people, to
connect with the network, especially this older day net work,
and kind of just figure out at different times, um,
what passions you might have outside of football. We're not

(20:05):
going to cheat football now, We're not going to cheat that.
We have no way to to maximize who we are
as a football team. If we do that, but there's
time that you can truly um network and figure out.
But that transition terms of think, that's you're passionate about
you Ohio State because your dad grew up in Columbus
and as a huge Ohio State fan I've read wasn't

(20:27):
even able to afford go into games, but that didn't
lessen his passion. But the buck eyes, you know you're
growing up in the state of Ohio. That's it's a
powerful seductive thing. So you go to Ohio State and now,
in one of those scripts that sports provides, it's even
crazier than anything a writer could come up with. You
have your first regular season game at Notre Dame back

(20:48):
in the Horseshoe in Columbus against Ohio State, where you
also began as a g a where Jim Trestle was
your coach remains a mentor. I mean, the story kind
of writes itself, man, I mean, you're trying to win
a game. But for those of us that set up
these plot lines, it's incredible, really, and I'm gonna let

(21:10):
you all in the media run with that plot line
and to make a great story because I know that's important.
Fortunate for me. I get to try to control the
narrative in this building, and and that's what I'm gonna
do and tell these players and make sure everybody in
this program I understands this is about Notre Dame and
this is about this football program getting a chance to

(21:31):
go play a great opponent in Ohio State. What better
way to see where we're at as a football program
to play a team like that week one? And that's
the beauty. We're going back. I've been going back studying
last year and um we it took us a little
bit of time, but we were a much better team
towards the end of the season in terms of what

(21:52):
we were going and how we were executing. And you
can't start slow versus opponent like Ohio State. And so
we have to prepare and we have to make sure
in training camp this team is ready to go September three.
And so listen, I love because there's no lack of
motivation for these guys in training camp these days. That's
gonna be hot and it's gonna be hard to listen. Hey, guys,
all we gotta do is show you who who we're
playing September three, and that motivation will be there. So

(22:15):
I'll let the story be about Marcus Freeman going back
to Ohio State UM from the media point of view,
But I can't wait to take this football team into Columbs,
Ohio and go compete against a team that's one of
the best in the country. Well, the story is about
a lot of things, but that you can't ignore that fast. Listen.
You strike me as someone who's worked hard to know
themselves very well. But it's a brand new experience to

(22:36):
run out not as an insistent coach that as a
g A, but as the guy in front of the
team into the horse shoe. Have you envisioned that. Do
you have an expectation from yourself how that's gonna feel.
I would hope it doesn't feel that much different than
it was in in Arizona for the bowl game, you know,

(22:57):
And that's the best part about it. I've in it
as an opponent Ohio State. When we're at Cincinnati, I
know it's the assistant coach wh I've done it there.
I know where the away locker room is. I ran
out my first game versus Oklahoma State in Fiesta vot
So there's should that the focus for me should be
preparation and what matters to help us have a chance

(23:18):
to be victorious in this game. And so um, again,
it's not September three. I don't know what the emotions
will be um when I get there, but I just
tell myself, I've already ran out as the head coach.
I've already done that. I've already been to Ohio State
as an assistant coach on the opposing team. And so
let's focus on the things that really matter, and that's
to making sure this team is really to execute well

(23:40):
an x Ohio State coast. Of course, as Jim trust
Soll won a championship there, and you you've talked about
him being an important mentor to you and you're learning
things from him. I guess I get either the blame
or the credit for for dubbing him Senator Trestle because
of the way he used to hold those press conferences
in a tie in a sweater of ass with an
American flag and Ohio flag, and you used to deflect

(24:01):
questions and try to answer as blandly as possible, which
a lot of coaches do. And so I felt that
he was he was Senator Trestle. And I know you're
a different person than that. But you've taken a lot
from him, I don't. I don't see your style though
in dealing with all the peripheral stuff of a program
being quite the same as him. Yeah, listen, he's still

(24:24):
the same way. I still asking questions and he gives
me every answer except for the answer then I'm looking for,
you know. And it's like he doesn't do every certain
thing except for Hey, if I asked him about a
media or I asked him about you know, a scrimmage,
He'll give me every answer to step for the answer
that I'm really looking for. But um, I love him.
He's the best. And uh, you know, Chris. For me,

(24:46):
I gotta be who I am. That's the one thing
I've learned more than anything is be who you are. Now.
You have to be smart in terms of the things
you say. You know. I've learned that at an early
stage of being a head coach that you know, you
don't want to give anybody added motivation, you know, and
you've got to be very um intentional about what you
say because it can be twisted and you know, kind

(25:09):
of put out in other ways that that individuals see
is good for them, you know, And so um, I
think you learn every day. You're learning every day. I'm
going to be who I am. I want to be
authentic because if I'm not, I think people will see
right through it. But um, you've got to be calculated
in the messaging and the things that you do. Say

(25:30):
no doubt you always impressed me as a player and
as an assistant coach, and I thought of you when
you did get the head coaching job is about the
same time that I was trying to juggle calling four
games in eleven days and the time management challenge. Listen,
I'm old, but I think you always have to figure
ways to improve and enhance your time management, Like until
your last day on Earth, How in the world have

(25:51):
you had to adjust and grow on the fly Marcus?
In terms of time manage. Where you go from being
a daily concern is stop the other team's offense. That's
what you do as a defensive coordinator to suddenly being
the guy at Notre Dame and the amount of people
pulling at you for time and the demands it grows exponentially.

(26:12):
How did you keep your head clear in the static
as quiet as possible? And how do because it's still ongoing? Yeah,
I want I had to learn to use the Google calendar. UM.
I've never had a calendar before. I never had to
put things on the calendar, and now I have to
use that to give me reminders of what I've agreed to,
what I have coming up, what's important. UM. But but

(26:33):
right now for me Christmas, I look back on this year. UM,
I've said yes to a lot of different things, and
it's been very intentional because I have to figure out
what truly needs my time and what doesn't. Right when
it comes to football time, when comes to training camp,
I'm gonna trust me, I'm gonna be all in its
football football. But I've said yes to a lot of
different things that you get um asked to do as
the head coach of this this prestigious program. And so

(26:56):
I did that very intentionally. So now after this year,
you can go can reflect and say, Okay, these are
the things that are truly important to making sure that
your players have success. Ultimately, that's why I'm in this year.
Every day I come into work, it's making sure that
I'm doing everything in my power to make sure this
program and these players have as much opportunity to have
success as they can. And so UM, part of that

(27:17):
of saying yes with a lot of people. Part of
that is is UM being in the office and and
and having a pulse for my team. You know, this
is July and and a lot of people are supposed
to be off and on vacation, and we have family time.
We went on Disney cruise, which people say, oh, you
took a vacation. I said, I was out of the office.
I wasn't on vacation at six kids on a cruise ship.
But um, and my wife has been great, she's been amazing. UM,

(27:42):
she's saying, go go go figure it out. UM. The
one thing you're not gonna do is fail because you
didn't put enough effort into it. But I hope after
this year I can go back and reflect and say, Okay,
here's where I can have, UM an opportunity to maybe
spend more family time or opportunity to really be respectful
of my time in terms of my family, in terms

(28:04):
of this football program and what's necessary. So time management
is an everyday learning process. Um. You know, you have
to try to be organized, but try to organize in
terms of what's important and what's not. Six kids in
a cruise ship sounds like a reality show name that's
that's a whole another podcast on that. Mark. Hey, let's
talk about you know you you've talked about the drive

(28:27):
to be prepared, and that takes planning, and I know
you're a planner and that's one of the things that
that Jim Trussell was so superbaut and still is. But
you've also talked about presents. So for busy people out
here who juggle lots of things, including your family, how
do you play it off the preparation versus the presence
where you're not looking ahead, you're right in the moment um,
whether it's to a player or one of your kids

(28:49):
or your wife. No, it's an everyday battle. It's an
everyday battle, and uh as you go because part of
it being an organized and being a leader is thinking ahead.
How can I make sure I'm prepared for next week
when the coaches get back, or how can I be
prepared for week one and versus week three, versus week six?

(29:10):
And And you have to think ahead as the leader
because everybody needs a calendar, everybody needs a vision. But
part of being a great leader is being in the
moment and being around your players and being around your staff.
And figuring out what's important for today. So I don't
have a great answer for that. I know it's it's both.
You have to as a leader always look ahead and

(29:33):
always playing, but also in order to be really effective,
you gotta make sure you're accomplishing once you need for
that day. You and your wife Joanna have have six kids,
four boys, two girls ranging from three to fifteen. Under
the roof there for at the time being anyway and
your Vinnie Siena, Gino, Nico Capri and Rocko strong theme
there somebody loves Italy. But listen, I mean being a

(29:56):
dad to six. That's a number, right. It's a concept
that not not having any kids that I can't even
wrap my head around. But it's not six. It's six individuals, right,
who are different people. Despite some share DNA, they have
very different personalities. I would imagine they have different needs
from a dad at different stages in their life. How
do you make that work? Man? How do you possibly

(30:18):
give everything? Because you people will say, hey, listen, if
everything is a priority, then nothing is a priority, Right's right,
That's right. And it's it's really tough because because when
you have six, you're and you're a football coach. When
you have the chance to get home or a chance
to be around your family and bring your family here,
you want them, all right, You just want to be
be around them all But as you said, they're all different,

(30:39):
they all have different needs, and so you have to
be intentional, um, with the little time that you have
that you can spend with them, you have to be intentional.
My fifteen year old needs different attention in a different
father than my three year old, you know. And so
an example is how can I, hey, bring the fifteen
year old here to work, to get a work out,
Come get a work I'll be around you. I'll have

(31:01):
a chance to talk with you, connect with you late
at night after we get to the little kids to bed.
The three year old Ryan, he can be the most needy,
but his time might be when he comes to the
mom and Dad's bet, right. And and and that's something that
we've always said, no kids allowing our bet with the
three year old. He's the baby, he's always allowed. And
then we got we got the nine year old, the
nine year old boy with gino. You know, he's a

(31:22):
thicker kid. He's a thicker kid, um, And so I
make him take the dog on walks with me. So
if I can ever take the dog on the wall,
that's me in Geno's time. And so I keep saying,
there's you have to be intentional in terms of being
a parent to him all but given every individual kid
in their own time. Man, I admire that that that

(31:42):
has to be a daily challenge. But it seems like
you and your wife are up to it. You know.
One of the things that have impressed me is that
you went around and spoke to every living Notre Dame
X football coach, which seems like, okay, no brain here,
but not many people would have maybe the humility or
the wisdom to do that. One of them is to,
of course, is Taryn Willingham, who recruited you when you
were considering strongly to go to Notre Dame. You said

(32:05):
he reminded you of his dad. What did you take
from his conversation, because obviously he was the first black
head coach at Notre Dame in any sport, so has
a perspective there that maybe um was valuable to you. Yeah.
I think every person you've talked to, every former coach
that have been here, coaches that maybe haven't been here,

(32:26):
they all give you third knowledge. They all give you
their advice, you take what you want right and and
you know, Coach Willingham gave me a lot of different um,
you know, examples from when he was here and why
they didn't have success or why they did have success. Ultimately,
the thing I got from him is you have to
make sure your staffs the line. You have to make

(32:46):
sure that um, everybody outside of your players. You're gonna
spend time to your players. I'll take care of your play,
but everybody outside of your players has to be on
the same page. And you have to be clearing communication
and um. That's something that I remember taking for him
in our conversation, amongst many other things that I'll leave
between and him, but it was a very important conversation

(33:07):
to have. It helped me learned some lessons maybe that
I didn't know before talking to him. But I think
the the overwhelming theme that every person that I've talked
to has given me see who you are doing your way.
Here are some things that I did that I would
maybe read do or I wouldn't do. You have to

(33:27):
do things your way. And I take all that advice
I get and I said, okay, this I might have
two pages of notes. This is the thing I got
from him that I'm going to try to incorporate, and
it's something from every person I talked to. Yeah, that
powerful sense of self and the need to be yourself
I think serves us all well, but even more so
when you are a representative. You are a representative by

(33:50):
taking this job of not just a lot of coaches
in all sports, a lot of people who have felt
rightfully so under represented, and so the responsibility, the pride
that goes along with that, but also the responsibility. And
you're just sort of begetting your journey as head coach.
But I'd be surprised if you haven't gotten letters of
communications from people saying, coach, you are representing so much

(34:16):
your feelings on that it's it's real, it's real. And
the things that you've just said that all those things
that happened, all those communications have happened. Um. I've got
a reminder from a coach yesterday that I highly respected.
He said, you have the single most important minority head
coaching job in all sports, and it was something you

(34:36):
just go, Okay, Now that's a reminder, right, We all
need reminders. What is my daily motivation? Every day to
wake up and to come and work and work as
hard as I can. It's for these players. It's to
help them reach the goals. And I say that, Chris,
because yeah, I gotta work hard, man, I gotta understand it.

(34:59):
I have to have success. I want to have success
for that next way that the representation of others. But
I come to work in the way I'm going to
have successes to server players is to work tiresly to
help them reach their goals. As I said earlier, what's
one of their goals to be national champions. So every
day I come in the office, how can I do

(35:20):
whatever it takes to make sure this program is it's
close to that level that we can win every game
we play, right? How can I make sure we put
the people around them that help them develop the NFL
football players, because that's what they all want to do,
that's their goals, right. How can I make sure that
we're doing things to help prepare them for life after football,
because that's something Maybe some of them have goals of

(35:42):
that right now, but they will at something. Right Maybe
not all of them think about that right now, but
they will at some point. So that is my motivation, Chris,
is that I want to make sure these guys have
success now, in the present and long throughout their life.
And and that's all that's always in the forefront of
my heads. I kind of yeah, I mean I can,
I can hear the Priday, and I can also understand

(36:04):
that that must be a daunting feeling. You know, I've
been at this a long time. I've had conversations with
lots of black head coaches over over three decades of time,
and and many have had very different opinions. But one
of the themes that does come through is that part
of being unrepresented and not getting opportunities is that giving
the same chance to rebuild, which you don't have to

(36:25):
do thankfully, or completely change around an incredibly difficult situation,
or be given the patients to sort through those things,
or be given a second chance if that doesn't work
out the first place is frankly not the same for
minority coaches and hasn't been, and and there are lots
of facts to back that up. Um where are you

(36:47):
with that worked tirely to try to make sure I
have as much success as I can as fast as
I can, right, and then I'm in a unbelievable situation
as as we've talked about earlier, where this program is
and and um, I believe I have every resource to
make sure that we continue to excel. And so that's

(37:09):
my focus on how do we continue to enhance? How
can we continue to get better? You know what, one day,
I'm sure I am going to look back and say, Okay,
maybe this was something different I could have done to
help or maybe you know what, I'm not a last
half MP guy, right, I look at this and that
we have everything in these walls that we need to

(37:33):
be successful. If we're not successful, I'm gonna look at
myself and say, what didn't I do to make sure
we have success? And I'm just speaking about Marcus Fringer.
I'm not speaking about anybody else. What didn't I do
to make sure we have success? And so that's to me,
my focus verstans to make sure that I believe we
have everything in our power, everything we need to be

(37:53):
the most successful program in the country. So our job,
my job is to make sure we find a way
to to that. Something you said and my preparation hit me,
and you talked about leadership obviously being high on the
list for your players, and that is true a lot
of places for a lot of coaches. But you said
leadership by example isn't enough. That made me pause and think.

(38:14):
I like to think that I've done things pretty decent
over my career, but I haven't maybe been enough of
the vocal leaders to other people. It's been, Hey, I
will try to set the example and do what I
can do. You want people to do more than that,
And I think it's useful for people who are involved
in all walks of life. Leadership by example, to you
is only a part of it, it seems, and I

(38:36):
and I use that in terms of our players, and
that when we think of a leader by example, we
think about a guy that does usually performs really well, right,
He's usually a really good performer. Um, but he doesn't
say anything. And so I'm not saying you have to
be the raw, raw motivational guy. That's not what I'm saying.

(38:56):
I'm saying it's everybody in our football programs um to
hold each other accountable to our standards. And so if
you see somebody not doing but not performing up to
our standards, if there's greatest example, if they're supposed touch
the line, they don't touch the line. If they're supposed
to turn right, they don't talk, but you don't say anything,

(39:18):
then you're just letting that become the new standard. And
so that's what I'm trying. When I say those things
leadership by example, I'm talking about the guys that don't
say anything, the guys that allow others to under achieve
and underperformed. And we can't have that because it's everybody's job,
from the secretary to the head coach, to the straight coach,
to the starting tight end to the scouting guy, to say,

(39:38):
you know what, this is a family. If you underachieve
or you don't do what it's expected, hey man, I
want to call you. Hey touch the line, you know,
or or hey finished through whatever it is that we're
looking for, whatever the standard that has been said, we
all have to hold each other accountable. And if you
don't right, which we said, Hey, that's the leader by extample.
You're not the guy that says anything that you're allowing

(40:00):
us all to underperform. You talked a lot and lived it,
putting others before self. You'd like your players to do
that too, And many would say, hey, yeah, good luck
with the generation Z because this generation is selfish, This
generation is soft. This generation is concerned about their own
success and not the collective. It's a bad rap. I've

(40:21):
done talks and posts about this. But it's also a
generation that that it isn't enough to just tell them
what to do and don't give them the reasons behind
it and say, hey, it's all about the name in
the front of the jersey and not the back, because
that's not how they've grown up, that's not their framework
for their existence. How challenging, Marcus is it to get
a bunch of guys to put others before themselves. Well,

(40:43):
for me, the challenges to get them to care about
each other. That's where it starts for me. Let's get
them to care and get them to choose to love
each other. And that is an everyday mission of mine
is too. How do I get these guys to make
the choice to love each other? And I believe the
love is a choice and you have to choose to
love your teammate. And how can I put you in

(41:04):
situations or give you examples where this is going to
help this program have success, which in turn will help
you have individual success. Team success comes first. With team
success comes an individual success. But we have to get
them to care first. We've got to get them to
truly choose to love each other every day, choose to
love each other, choose to be a team, choose to
care about each other. And then all of a sudden

(41:26):
you'll say, Okay, it's about team, because I will get
mine when I we have team success, I will get
my individual success. Man. That's powerful that It reminds me
of a study I saw done where they talked about
the qualities that defines success for combat soldiers whose lives
are on the line every day, and what is important
for them, and what ranked ahead of courage and bravery

(41:50):
and strength and toughness was love. Love was the number
one thing that was important because if they didn't have
love for the guy next to them, they couldn't do
their job. And it was more about at than it
was the bravery to jump in a grenade. Right. That
that is so powerful. I couldn't agree with you more.
That is exactly the point I'm trying to hit with
these players in this program is that if we don't

(42:11):
love each other, if we don't choose to love each o,
doren't care about each other. The opponent doesn't matter because
we're not going to sacrifice when we need it most.
You've called yourself a dynamic recruiter, um. Others have said relentless.
You've hired seven new coaches to add to a staff.
You want all them to be dynamic recruiters. Have that
tremendous early return success on that. This is a different

(42:33):
kind of recruiting though, I mean being a relentless recruiter
now in the era of free agency via the transfer
portal N I L means a different thing because it's
a three seven thing um above board and below board.
But what what do you in the context of this
current climate. What is a relentless dynamic recruiter mean hard work?

(42:56):
It means out working other coaches, and that doesn't mean
aways me, you're gonna win, right there's that doesn't mean
always gonna win. But it's not gonna be because of
a lack of effort. And so, how can we make
sure that kid and that family knows who we are,
knows we're recruiting moren't anybody else because we care about
an authentic relationship. We have to get these players to

(43:18):
feel that these coaches and this coaching staff care about it.
Right on top of what this university provides for and
the opportunity that it offers him. Because we have to believe,
I believe, as the head coach and our assistants have
to believe that there is no greater opportunity for a
young person to come play for about the highest level,
get at the highest level of education in a network

(43:41):
that will truly open so many doors from You have
to believe that first, then you have to do the
things necessary to get that young person in his family
to understand that. Too many times until our staff all
the time don't just recruit the player. We have to
recruit this families, you know. And if you're recruiting my son,
guess what My job as his father's to help guide

(44:02):
him to make the right decisions. So we have to
have relationships with the families and and but it takes time.
That's not one conversation. And and that's to me when
I say relentless recruiters that we will not stop daily
of communicating in building a relationship with these young people.
I want you to tell me if you disagree with this,

(44:24):
but I've said this, and I do believe that because
the sport is so hot, heavy and because the same
team seemed to be competing for the championship every year.
There are really two groups of programs at the top
of the sport, and one of them states very clearly
and backs it up with dollars commitments. Whatever it takes.

(44:45):
I'm not saying breakthroughs, but within reason, whatever it takes
to win a championship, we will do. And we know
what the programs are because they're the same ones that
are battling for playoff positions. The other ones who believe
they're not going to go that far, they're not going
to state that would ever it takes, We're gonna have
a championship caliber football program L S G was or
whatever it takes program I don't know have Notre Dame

(45:08):
has been in the past. I think they would not
like that label, certainly, But but where do you see
the Irish in fitting into that or even if you
buy my my dichotomy, I believe Notre Dame's committed um
to supporting this football program to become national champions and

(45:29):
and that's my belief, And again that comes from a
guy that's been a head coach for seven and a
half months. And but I believe and I have a
strong belief and I hope everybody in our program believes
that Notre Dame has supported us and will continue to
support us to do everything it takes to win a
national championship. My job is continue to grow, figure it out, reevaluate,

(45:51):
look back and say, okay, do we have what it takes.
I believe right now and I feel like we have
the full support of this administration UM, our athletic director
are president, that they are committed to doing whatever it
takes that we need to win the national championship. And
Notre Damn has been in the playoff and has been
close other years, including last year in Cincinnati, UM coach

(46:11):
by Luke Vickl, who's the godfather of of your youngest child.
I mean, they had a tremendous season. They were in
the bracket of four. But to do it year in
year out, to be there competing and able to win
two playoff games, not just get in the bracket and
take home the trophy? Is it? Is it daunting to
try to chase down and keep up with the Alabama's

(46:35):
and the Clemsons and the Georgis and the Ohio States
in Oklahoma's et cetera. The teams that have dominated that
playoff bracket so far daunting. I don't know if I
would say, don, I would say, what is in your opinion,
what do you believe that it takes to get to
that level? And I think my opinion is it starts
with talent. It starts with continuing to get the best

(46:58):
players in the country that the fit Notre Dame, but
are the best football players in the country. And that's
what we have to continue to do and and we
every year. Every year, you got to say, okay, you're
not looking at your current roster as much as okay,
let's evaluate these high school or college portal guys and say, okay,
who are the best ones in the country through our

(47:20):
evaluation that fit Notre Dame that can help us win
a national championship. So it starts with recruit It starts
with getting the right players. The second part is to
continue to have a culture. Right is that's the buzzword,
But what is your culture and it and is your
culture strong enough to when your talent is there to

(47:41):
help you win a national champion So it's an everyday
focus on everyday struggle. But to me, that is our
formula to continue and to improve is continue to acquire
the best talent that we feel is out there through
our evaluations and convince them or or get them to
realize Noted Dame is the place they want to go

(48:02):
to school when they want to play college football at
And then too, we have to continue to enhance every day,
Enhance our culture, enhance this team, enhance this program. You
talked a lot about hoping that your players appreciate the
work they put in and also the wisdom that they're
gaining while in school and the wisdom they have the
potentially game because I don't want to sell like an

(48:22):
old person again, but you know, I think a lot
of people in college aids don't fully appreciate the opportunity
they have and don't and don't view education as a
really multifaceted, horizontal thing, and they think I'm gonna go
to class, listeners to the professor, whereas education can happen
I think much more effectively just bym learning from the
students that are around you, especially in a place like
Notre Name where there's just a lot of really impressive

(48:42):
people from varied backgrounds. What message do you drive home
to your players about it's tough for young people to
appreciate what you have and know that there's so much
value every single day of your college experience. Yeah, again,
I try to. I try to preach that message. But
that's what the head coach is supposed to do, right.
You're supposed to say it's important to go to the class.

(49:03):
You're supposed to say, hey, you're it's value, there's valuable
rewards and getting an education. But part of that also
is bringing in real life examples or showing them examples
of what the education at Notre Dame provides for them.
And so I often try to do that to remind
them the privilege they have to go to school here. Uh.

(49:24):
We had a week where it was discretionary. They didn't
have to work out this summer. Um. They were here
on campus. Um. And what I did was we we
invited people individuals that could remind our players that wasn't
the head coach of the privilege they have to go
to school here. Here's a real life example of a
person that went to school here, got an education here,

(49:46):
that's one of the most successful people in this world.
This is why you have to strain and go to
class and study and and do the things that it's
necessary to obtain this degree. Here's another example of a
guy working with a Notre Dame man that wasn't a
football player that you know what, they made a connection.
Now they're working together and now they're really successful businessman.
Here's Justin Tuck. We have Justin Tuck come back and um,

(50:07):
you know and say, okay, here's a person that did it.
He's done everything you wanted to. He's played great college football.
He was an NFL draft pick, super Bowl champ, all Pro,
all these things. Now he's a successful businessman. Let him
come back and tell you what the Notre Dame experienced
UM did for him. And so I think it's constant reminders.

(50:28):
It's not just the head coach speaking but giving them
real life examples that you know what, Okay, I gotta
go to class. Here's why, here's why I'm doing what
I do. You believe in in process of a result,
which I think is smart, the path being more important
than the destination. But this is a results based thing.
And you know a lot of smart coaches have said

(50:50):
you are what your record says you are. So if
you're allowed to talk to think about where the path
could lead and focus on the destination for yourself with
this program. What is the destination? What is the result
a Notre name that will make you feel like, hey,
this is successful for me, it's it's given these players

(51:12):
in this university what they want, and that's their twelfth
national championship, right, And that's to me, that's not why
I come to work every day, right, It's it's what
I want for this place, and it's what I want
for these players because that's why they chose the other day.
That's why I'm sure a lot of the noted name
chose me because there's the belief of of getting that

(51:34):
twelfth national championship and and so on, and so that
to me is something that we we don't shy away from.
We we want to be national champions. The process of
getting there is where we need to focus that and
to really focus on. But that's that's that's to me,
definitely a goal. If you get there, I'm sure it's
gonna be by doing it your way and being yourself

(51:56):
and and and doing it the right way. So it'll
be fascinating to see how this unfolds. Definitely fired up
for for the opening game and what's to what's to
come in your first full season as head coach. Any
any final thoughts or anything we haven't covered. No, this
has been great. Um dude, it's my sort And if
I was gonna pick your brain for a while, Hey, listen.
Nobody ever comes with questions, but this is better when

(52:19):
it's a conversation. I'll ask. I don't answer anything you want. Yeah,
I don't know just I mean from your experience or
where you started to where I guess here's the one
question I love to ask people are really successful in
the BILS, like yourself. If you can go back and
talk to thirty six year old Chris Fowler in in
you know, I don't know where were you at with

(52:39):
thirty six, but to where you're at now, what advice
would you give the thirty six year old Chris Powler
m hmm um, Well, I was already at ESPN for
a dozen years, and I think that you know, we
all go through phases, man, we I think that it
took me a while to figure out gratitude and acceptance
of what the universe deals with us and getting beyond

(53:01):
anger and frustration and resentment. Those are all human emotions,
they're all they're part of all of us, right, But
if you can practice acceptance, I think you can get
beyond that. And and I would tell myself that because listen,
I mean, there's a lot tougher businesses than this, but
this is not the easiest thing when it comes to, um,
you know, operating in a fish bowl. So that would
be one thing just to remind myself to be grateful.

(53:23):
But I think you're already there, man, I you don't
need any help being involved, especially where you are thirty
six years old, thank you. Um what about with you
and Kirk? I mean, how YouTube have grown together as
a partnership. You know, over how many years have YouTube
been in the booth ago? But blow you away. I
think there's gonna be year twenty seven on on fall Saturdays,

(53:45):
which would include game Day, uh, some Thursday games and
then ABC Prome. So it isn't then crazy that we
we we hit a point where we're we've done that
longer together than the players recovering it been alive by
quite a few years at this point. Wow, that's unbelievable.
How have you too, I mean, what intentional things that
YouTube have done over your career to help that cohesiveness

(54:07):
amongst the two of you. You like each other, you
share a passion for the sport. Fundamentally, that's what it is.
Um authenticity. I think that's the key behind game day
success fans. As you point out, players especially this generation
can sense and smell inauthenticity better than any generation. And
they're also they feel the freedom to express that when
they sense it, maybe more than other generations. So we

(54:29):
authentically love the sport, UM love being around it. UH
great affection for each other and that extends also to
Desmond Howard and the Corso and others who have been
a part of game Day when I was there. But
I think that you know, it's a tremendous amount of
trust and we we are sort of hardwired together at
this point. I know how he sees football. I think
he knows what I'm gonna do. So we we we

(54:51):
speak shocking a little about the matchup. We'll talk before
your game with all House said, I promise you, but
not as much as you might think, because, um, you know,
in inc and something that sort of innate takes over.
So and also just being open and honest and how
you communicate sometimes it is tough love. Um. We're very
different people. We have a shared passion for the sport,

(55:11):
but maybe the way we process that. I've never been
a player, so um, you know, his experience is going
to be different and deeper than mine in some ways.
But um, you know, I think we learned from each other,
respect each other, and also try to communicate as clearly
as we can't, even when the messages aren't that pleasant
to deliver or here you know, yeah, that's great, that's great.
How do you deal with time management? I was, I

(55:32):
was looking through it a couple weeks ago year over
the woman, and now you're here, and I mean, how
do you deal with your time demands? Man? You said
something very smart and I might prefer this. You try
to slow things down, you know, I've read some smart
people say you don't have too little time, You just
have too much. That's that's on your mind. So trying
to clear away some of the static and be in

(55:54):
the moment and figure out what is most important when
it's right in front of you, and what can get
shuffled a little bit farther back, what can spend less
time on? And also I think too that listen for
any job like yours or anything else, sometimes being the
best prepared It doesn't mean spending the most hours grinding
on my chart or your game tape. You know, it's

(56:15):
important to prepare that way, but ultimately, how you are
in front of your players on Saturday afternoon, and how
I am when I go and you know, with a
headset on in the booth, that's what's super important. I mean,
that's what at least in my that's what you're judged by.
So I could prepare like crazy if I have a
shitty show because my mind isn't in the right place
that I prepare well. So learning I think that that

(56:39):
sometimes the best preparation doesn't mean the most time grinding
on the details, but getting yourself in the proper frame
of mind to do the best job that you can.
That's I don't know if it is. I mean, I'm
just trying to you. You're a hell of an interviewer.
This has gone a fun direction, but I am respectful
of your time. That's good. That's really good. That's really good. No,

(57:02):
this has been great. This has been great. Obviously, respect
what you've done and uh followed your career. I told
you at the top Marcus. My wife Jennifer as a
co executive producer of this podcast and in researching this interview.
She told me this morning, I have a team to follow.
I'm a name fan, I'm a Marcus Freeman fan. So
take that that. Jennifer has really good judgment and instincts.

(57:25):
So you have a fan in my household from now on.
So thank you, thank you. This has been great. Now,
this has been great. Marcus Freeman has always impressed me
during my visits with him as a player and assistant coach,
and more so now as CEO of Notre Dame Football.
I love what his example represents about hard work and

(57:46):
preparation to be ready to meet your moment. And I
hope you're aspired up as I am for the Fighting
Irish against the buck Eyes in the Horseshoe. It kicks
off our ABC Saturday that football season September three. I'm
also fired up about season five of Foul Who. You
got another wide range of compelling guests and topics. I

(58:06):
enjoy every one of these conversations. I always learned a lot,
and I think you will too. As always, thanks to
my co executive producer Jennifer Dempster and editor Jason White Celtz.
I'll talk to you soon.