July 1, 2025 • 51 mins
Debt can be a scary word, really. It keeps you up at night, brings on the stress, and makes everything feel heavier. But you’re not alone. Once upon a time, Jen and Jill were there too. So in this episode, they’re once again sharing how they got through it and reminding you that it is possible.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
What to do if you have more debt than you
make in a year.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life here your
hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my
name is Jill, and today we are talking about a
thing that so many of us struggle with, is having
more debt than the amount we earn in a year.
I was there when I started paying off debt. We
had seventy eight thousand dollars of debt and we did
(00:44):
not earn seventy eight thousand dollars in a year, but
we got it paid off in two years, and we're
going to talk about how we did that.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, same same I had thirty three thousand dollars in
just student loan debt and I did not make that
in a year. And that can be extra overwhelming when
you've got a lower income and more debt than you
make in a year, because it feels like an extra
hurdle to have to get over of. I already don't
(01:19):
make a ton of I'm very much living paycheck to paycheck.
Where am I going to find this money to pay
off the debt. But we're here to tell you that
it is possible, and we're going to give you some
hope and encouragement in this episode.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
But first, this episode is brought to you by our
Annual Finance Planner. I found that I had about twenty
different sheets, docs, and notes on my phone for everything
from the wellness checks that I get included with my
healthcare sharing or my health insurance, to the things I
(01:54):
have to do to maintain my home annually, my car
every fifty sixty thousand miles, my travel rewards cards, the
benefits that each had when I signed up, when I
have to cancel the card I want to get next,
all of these things. So what we did is that
we made an Annual finance Planner spreadsheet so you can
(02:16):
have all of those lists in one place, so you
can check it out at Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash planner.
If if you're listening to a previous episode and you
want to get our spending planner at that url, you
are out of luck because we've changed that to frugalfriendspodcast
dot com slash budget. But if you go to Frugal
(02:39):
friendspodcast dot com slash planner. You're going to see this
annual finance planner that we created and if you want
to use the code Summer fifty, you could even get
fifty percent off of it.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, so frugal friendspodcast, dot com, slash planner. Check it
out and orgies your life.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, it's so fun. I love having everything all in
one place like that.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yes, so this summer we typically every summer we do
a summer slow down where we will play more frequent
reruns of some of our most downloaded episodes from two
plus years ago, and this is one of them. You
guys loved this episode and we are replaying it for you.
(03:26):
It aged very well. So if you've been with us
for less than two years, this is going to be
brand new to you. But it's always good to have
a reminder if you have been with us, So we
hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Let's do it. Let's get into these articles. The first
one comes from CNBC and it's titled how to Stop
Obsessing over your debt according Next Expert. And I again,
I love the normalization in here. I think we don't.
(04:00):
I don't realize how much other people are thinking about
their finances. I know certainly for those in debt, it
can become all consuming, and so this was just helpful
to see some of the statistics of what most other
Americans are experiencing as it relates to their finances and
(04:22):
hopefully help you feel validated in that but then not
leave you there. Find ways to not feel as though
you're obsessing. But they reference a study, a twenty nineteen
study that came from the Ascent Just Meets Your Criteria Gen.
One thousand and seven people were just the minimum hold
(04:44):
in this research study, and they found that when it
comes to how often people are mulling over their bills,
looking at it, thinking about it, I don't know, doing
stuff with it, twenty eight percent said they think about
the money they oh every single day, followed by twenty
percent who think about their debt almost every day and
(05:07):
another twenty percent who do so several times a week.
That's a lot of mental and emotional space that this
is taking up. And I mean, finances are a part
of our daily lives. Like we think about food every day,
we probably think about some aspect of relationships every day.
It would make sense that something related to finances would
(05:28):
cross our minds. But I think they're pointing to specifically
the bills, the debt, and then the stress and overwhelm,
and it's not it didn't go so far as to
say like how long, how much of the day this
takes up, But if you've got debt on top of
just normal financial decisions that you're making, then it's probably
(05:49):
taking quite an emotional toll and you're not alone in that, which, yeah,
I think all of that is super helpful to recognize.
And so they're going into ways now to how do
we alleviate some of this stress and overwhelm and the
amount of times, the frequency throughout the day that we're
(06:09):
thinking about this, And the first tip that they give
is to realize that debt is often a part of life.
And I don't know that i've ever read this in
an article before, this kind of permission to say debt
will be there. It's not to say, oh well, then
just don't worry about it and collect more debt. Like
(06:31):
I think we're all on a very similar page of
we don't want this, but I think sometimes when we
have this really shameful attitude about it, or we feel
really guilty about the debt that we've taken on, we
can cause more overwhelm and strain to our mental and
emotional health and what's necessary, and so kind of taking
(06:51):
this more neutral approach, this more kind of radical middle
acceptance of debt is just a part of life. For
most of us. We got to take out student loans,
for most of us, we got to go with a
mortgage when we're buying a house, Like there are these
debts that are just a part of life. In today's
(07:12):
landscape with buying vehicles, taking out a car payment is
becoming more and more normalized. So I also really think
this is a helpful concept, even related to bigger part
like all of life. I think there's this myth about
self sufficiency and like extreme independence. I think that really
(07:34):
there is kind of an alongside, like we can't be
completely self sufficient in any aspect of life. We always
need help and support and some level of dependence. There
can be a healthy dependence, but I think that there's
a little bit of a myth of being completely independent,
(07:54):
meaning you need no one and nothing, And so I
think kind of putting debt on under that category of
sometimes this the support of a lender, a helping hand
is necessary, and man, that takes a lot of shame
out of it.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm pretty sick of the narrative that debt
is the enemy. That like we believe, debt is neutral.
There is no good or bad debt, And there is
debt that limits your financial opportunity, and there is debt
that can aid in financial opportunity, And the same debt
(08:34):
can be either of those, so you can use it.
You can use debt alone to purchase a house or
a car that is very helpful to gaining wealth and
security and financial freedom. You can take out a loan
for a house or a car that is very detrimental
(08:55):
to reaching financial freedom or building wealth. So there is
no good or bad debt. So I'm sick of this
narrative that debt is the enemy. Debt is a part
of life, and I think once we realize that, then
you don't have to live in the extremes of oh
I live completely debt free, or oh I can't live
(09:17):
completely debt free, so I might as well just take
out debt for everything and take out as much of
it as I want when you are When you are
done living in those extremes, then you can think critically
about the role that debt plays in your life.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So well, said.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yes, and then you've got this picture of Susie Orman
right underneath where she's like pointing and she's like, throw
away your financial to do list.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Oh man, oh my gosh, hot takes. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, Susie, hope your new book goes well.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
All right.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Number two is consider how much debt you actually have.
And so again on this continuation of the idea, there
is no good or debt is neutral. Debt is a tool.
I mean, a hammer is a tool. It's great when
you're hammering in a nail. It's horrible when you're like
(10:09):
hammering your thumb because you missed the nail.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
So it's the same tool renovation, right, bash or a sponsor.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The hammer is not evil because you hit your thumb
with it. So you need to consider how much debt
a you actually have and be what you actually need.
So I spent a lot of time feeling shame and
guilt when I had debt because I was under this
(10:37):
narrative that debt is the enemy, and I let debt
into my life. I opened the door for the enemy essentially,
So that gave me like a lot of guilt and
shame when I was paying off debt. But I think
if I could have reframed, if I had the perspective
that I have now, I could have really thought more
critically about it and said, Okay, how much how much
(10:58):
debt do I have? Which of these debts are limiting
me in my financial growth, and so what needs to
be taken care of? And I would have made the
same decision that I made to pay off all of
our student loans to pay off our car. I would
have made the same decision. I don't regret paying off
(11:20):
all of those, but I would have felt a lot
less miserable about myself as a person because of having
that debt. So I would say the article is saying,
it's not that you shouldn't be concerned about carrying debt,
but just concerned about how much you have. I think
(11:40):
it's really just a call to look at what you
could do without the debt. Think about your values, think
about your deeper why, think about your family, your friends,
all the things you could be doing without the debt,
and let that be the guide for why you pay
it off. Not because the debt itself is the enemy.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yes, the deeper reason, and often we can connect to
that deeper reason more than something that could feel arbitrary,
just this number on a screen or a piece of paper.
Number three I really love, which is ask yourself whether
you're making progress. If you're doing everything reasonably possible given
(12:21):
your circumstances to becoming debt free, then this could be
some level of permission to not continually obsess over money.
If you are throwing any additional bonuses or unexpected income
towards debt repayment, if you are cutting back in one
(12:43):
specific area of life or going out to eat or
entertainment in order to put more money towards debt, even
if it's small, or you just have a plan of
some sort, this could give the freedom that's necessary to
be able to let yourself rine and the fact that
you're making progress, which can definitely limit the amount that
(13:06):
we are thinking about it, the amount of space. Not
to say we're not going to have thoughts about it,
but if we know, no, I'm doing something towards this,
it doesn't mean that I'm experiencing debt freedom immediately, but
progress is happening. That can have a profound impact on
the level of obsession that we experience. And they give
(13:27):
examples of a mortgage payment obviously we could apply this
to any other type of debt payment, but they reference
that if your mortgage payment is twelve hundred dollars a
month and you just add an additional one hundred per
month to the payment, make sure it goes to the principle,
then you would be making an extra payment on your
house essentially by the end of the year, And just
(13:48):
that one hundred dollars extra per month could shave off
four years of payments and thousands of interest over the
lifetime of that loan, which is massive, like months to month,
probably wouldn't feel like a whole lot extra coming out
of your bank account, but you are doing more than
just the bare minimum, which we can rest in that
(14:11):
we're not always going to be able to do everything,
and I love why. That's why they say within your
means and with what's reasonable. Having that plan in place,
knowing that you're making progress can really cause some of
that piece to enter in and weigh less obsession.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Absolutely, And so the fourth and final one of how
to limit this obsession and overallhelm with a big, big
number on your debt is consider the why behind your debt.
And so we think about the why behind why we
want to pay off debt. That is something we talk
about a lot, but in that we often forget the
(14:55):
why behind our debt, and that can cause us to
feel really bad about it, a lot of guilt about it.
And this was something that I experienced, like very very critically.
I mean, I felt so dumb and my debt was
just student loans and I had four thousand on a
(15:17):
car that I paid off very quickly. The bulk of
it was student loans, and I felt so dumb for
taking out these loans. And when I looked back and
thought about why why did I take out student loans?
It wasn't like I was impulse buying a degree. I
(15:37):
was doing something that I was studying, something that I
wanted to do that I don't regret studying or doing
that led me to where I am in my life
right now, And all the great things that I have
right now are by some degree a direct result of
getting that degree. Yeah, and so nothing me regrets taking
(16:02):
out that money and getting that degree.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah. I love this question because this is another one
that's not talked about. I wish I had this article
during my debt free journey. There's so much that I
just had to kind of come up with on my
own of how to muddle through. And this probably did exist,
I just I don't know. I wasn't looking for it.
But this question of putting meaning to the debt, not
(16:27):
just meaning to the future financial goals, can really help
us to feel again the removal of shame. I think
so much of the obsession with the debt can be
very integrally connected with whether or not we feel guilt
or shame over it, and we just want that gone,
like we want the guilt and shame gone. But we
can get rid of the guilt and shame far before
(16:49):
the debt is actually paid off as we begin to
implement some of these mindset shifts. And yeah, I think too,
we can choose whether or not we value that. I
think oftentimes I knew the why for the debt, and
I was upset at the why, Like I got upset
with myself for going to college, like that was a
waste of money and now I'm still not making more
(17:11):
than what I owe back in debt. But that was
a mindset choice, like I chose to not value my education,
so I even needed to back up from there. I'm
speaking to my past self to have valued that because
maybe I didn't feel the value of my education in
that moment, but fifteen years later I am. Fifteen years later,
(17:32):
I'm very glad that I got my bachelor's and then
my master's and there was a reason and a benefit
to that debt. I just yeah, I think valuing it
and attaching a level of meaning to it that's going
to be helpful rather than a hindrance. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And if that's not your story, maybe you actually don't
love your degree, or maybe your debt is more consumer.
I would still challenge you to think about the seasons
and the events in your life that were a direct
result of those experiences that were provided by this quote
unquote debt.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, they're still learning. That's happening even if you're in
debt because you just wanted to go on all of
the vacations. Value those memories, find ways to attach meaning
to that, and then learn from it. How do I
want to now spend my vacations in the future that
aren't going to feel so overwhelming or all consuming?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Oh beautiful. I'm so glad these articles are being written. Yes, Okay,
So this next article comes from Oh the Maley Fool,
and it's talking about five tips to lower your debt
to income ratio. If anyone has applied for a loan,
mortgage trying to buy a car, this suddenly becomes very important.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So the first article was more of like, okay, what
do we do with the psychoge ramifications of having more
debt than we earn in a year? And this one
is more of the practical aspects of Okay, what happens
to me financially if I have a really high debt
to income ratio. So we're gonna go over these tips
(19:18):
just to give a little practical info.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yes, kick us off, Jen.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
All right, So the first one, if you have a
high debt to income ratio, and let me just first,
let's figure out how to calculate our debt to income ratio,
which was also called a DTI, which is actually very
important when getting a mortgage, but can be in other
(19:46):
ways just in life. So let's say you earned six
thousand dollars a month before taxes. That's what we're going
to use in the DTI is the gross income, so
that's six thousand per month, and then you calculate all
of your monthly debts, so that's mortgage or rent, they
will include rent in their auto loan, credit cards, personal loans, hoa, fees, alimony,
(20:13):
child support, all of that, and say that adds up
to twenty five hundred. So to calculate your DTI, you
divide twenty five hundred by six thousand, so debt divided
by income gross income, and then multiply by one hundred.
So twenty five hundred divided by six thousand is point
(20:35):
four to one six times one hundred. That's forty one
point six percent. So the ideal debt to income is
let's see, I think it's about thirty thirty six percent
is the quote unquote acceptable ratio. Anything higher and lenders
(20:55):
begin to worry. If you're in a fifty percent DTI,
you will not be able to get a mortgage unless
you have some creative financing strategy. So you've got to
stay below fifty, which, for in our example, if you
earn six thousand before taxes and your debts are three thousand,
(21:16):
so just five hundred dollars more, then you've really very
limited as to what you can do if you're trying
to buy a house. So we are trying to stay
below thirty six percent debt to income ratio. So if
you find yourself, I would say anywhere above thirty percent,
(21:36):
it should be your goal kind to really work on this,
especially if you're trying to buy a house, and the
first way you would do that is to pay down
high balances. And I would say, look, just pay down balances, honestly,
because they're not differentiating between type of debt. This is
not like your credit score where they're taking into consideration
(21:59):
types of debt. They are simply looking just at balances.
So pay down any balance and so then you will
get closer to that thirty six or below percent DTI.
It's going You're going to reduce it with every balance
you pay down.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Right, I appreciate this perspective because if your amount of
debt is more than what you earn in a year,
then we're not going to get it gone super quickly.
And so this is more of that reduction model aimed
at eventually becoming debt free. But for many of us,
we're going to carry a mortgage for a good part
(22:40):
of our working lives, and so what is the important
thing to focus on. This would be kind of one
of those first steps, like when we talk about the
financial picture as a whole and creating an emergency fund
is one of the first steps. Similarly, when it comes
to our debt, looking at our debt to income ratio
and lowering that is going to be one of the
(23:02):
first steps. And combined with that, number two is lower
your interest on debt. We talk about this a ton.
Some of the ways that you can do that, I mean,
first of all, would be to look at paying down
first your highest interest debts. That will cause you to
not have to pay as much of that interest. It's
(23:23):
a good place to start. It means you're also getting
rid of debt. They also reference I had not thought
of this before, but to call your lender and ask
for a reduction in the interest. Right, if you've been
working with that particular financial institution for a while, and
if you've been paying regularly and on time, they may
(23:43):
want to keep you enough as a customer to lower
that rate because they know you could transfer that loan elsewhere.
So those are a couple. I mean again, first of all,
just paying off your highest interest debts, calling around and
asking it for lower rates would be a really great idea. Again,
to lower that debt to income ratio.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, it does say consider getting a personal loan or
a credit card to lower these. But I think the
main reason you would focus on lowering your DTI is
to get a house, and they don't want to see
you opening anything new in the last six months, So
I wouldn't agree with that advice. But I would say
(24:24):
normally we're neutral on debt avalanche versus debt snowball to
pay off debt, I would say, if your goal is
to get a house pretty soon, to go more with
the debt avalanche because you're going to be able to
lower your debt balance a little quicker. It doesn't give
you the psychological thrill that the snowball will. But we're
looking to make a decision that will be largely based
(24:46):
on math, and so this would be the time to
use a math tool to get that down lower. So
this would be a place where we would favor the
avalanche over the snowball. Is to put credit cards on ice,
and so.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
They aren't affordably.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
They are literally saying some people have found that freezing
their credit cards in a literal block of eye provides
them with the time they need to talk themselves out
of unnecessary purchases. So you can do that, But I think,
especially now that most of our credit cards are saved
on our computer, this becomes less advantageous, and I think
(25:29):
just locking them so you can go into Chase, Bank
of America, whatever and lock the card. It shouldn't impede
any recurring payments that come out, but any like new payments,
any anythings like that, but double check with your bank.
(25:53):
So this is a very good strategy if you need
some extra barriers to going into debt.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yes, the next tip for lowering your debt to income
ratio is to implement a twenty four hour rule. And
I will argue that this is a great one for
all of us. This is just a little frugal principle
of being patient, giving ourselves margin and space in between
(26:24):
wanting to purchase something and actually purchasing that item. But
particularly when we are in debt payoff mode, not spending
additional money that we don't need to spend is going
to be really helpful. It's going to free up a
lot of those finances to be able to put as
much money towards the debt as possible. And so with
(26:46):
the twenty four hour rule, it's if you want to
purchase anything, and I would add anything that's outside of
what you have to buy your food, your bills, your
housing and transportation, things that you you have planned for
to spend on things above and beyond that. This is
really interrupting impulse spending. It's just one of those things
(27:09):
that we can implement a rule for ourselves to wait
the twenty four hours, allow ourselves time to think through
do I actually want to purchase that thing that I
just saw in the store. Is it actually going to
solve a problem improve my life? Is it a necessary thing?
Or would it be more advantageous for me to put
(27:31):
whatever money I was just about to spend on that
item towards my debt or again, for those who are
even debt free, towards any other financial goal. They give
the example of like being out shopping with a friend
and seeing a really lovely buffet table that would fit
perfectly in your dining room, and it's already been discounted
several times. That is where it would get me like, oh,
(27:53):
and it's on sale and it's calling my name and
it's perfect, and they're like things have been on sale
a lot. It doesn't mean that you have to buy them,
and it doesn't mean that you have to buy it
right away. You can give it twenty four hours consider it.
And if you've given it twenty four hours and you
still think that's a great thing. Great. Most of the time, though,
(28:13):
when we create space in between something that feels like
it's drawing us in and calling our name, when we're
no longer right in front of that giving ourselves that time,
most likely we're not going to end up buying it,
and we can make better decisions with our money. It's
really this kind of training ground for that.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yes, So there is a free Chrome extension that I
love for this, and it's called icebox. It's by Finder
dot com and you can just go in and google
ice box, buy finder dot com and you'll get the
page straight to the Google Chrome extension. I don't think
(28:53):
it has any other extensions for any other browsers, but
if you use Chrome, it's so wonderful. It replaces buy
now but on popular e commerce stores with a put
it on ice button, and you get to decide how
long that cool off period. So they call it how
(29:13):
long the cool off period is, and so you could
say twenty four hours. I want it to go into
my ice box for twenty four hours before I'm able
to purchase it. So you put it on ice, and
then the countdown starts, it goes into your ice box,
and then twenty four hours later that button changes back
to an ad to cart.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
But people love putting stuff on ice, putting your credit
cards and your freezer, putting purchases. Yeah, fictitional ice box
on the computer.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So yes, after that cooling period, you can decide if
you still want it or you can discard it. And
I think it's wonderful you kind of course turn it off.
It's not going to limit you, you know, if you
do need something in an emergency, but most things are not.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
The nice thing about putting spending on ice is that
then we can put our debt on fire. There's an
equal and opposite reaction.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's That's a good one, Jill.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Thanks cool. What's the next one?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
All right? The next on this article is to take
on a side hustle you can enjoy.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I like that second bit, yeah, right, that you enjoy?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yes, So there we all work hard, right, like nobody's
over here trying to scam the system, no matter how
many people try and say, millennials are not working and
trying to scam the system. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I am trying to retire my Jill.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
You have your you. I try and save you in
these episodes, and then you go straight off and you're like,
I would like to incriminate myself more. Anyways, I really
do believe that everybody listening to the show and beyond
we really are trying to make the most of the
(31:10):
limited life we've been given. And so while yes, I
think we do, some of us are in a position
to do more work than others. Like if you are single,
if you have no kids, you are in a unique
time in your life to be able to do more
than those of us who have multiple children, who are
(31:33):
kicking us in the organs inside of our bodies.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
There's just one in there.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
There's not one.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
She's got one outside of her that maybe sometimes kicks here.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
No, Okay, thankfully he's not a kicker. But so, yeah,
you are in a unique season of life. And even
if maybe you do have kids and you maybe find
some time, you don't want to spend that time miserable.
So let's look for side hustles we can enjoy that
are actually profitable. So I'm not talking about like crocheting,
(32:04):
hats in Florida and selling them at the farmer's.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Market, although the malifool is talking about that, not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, I'm not for that. I don't like crafts as
a side hustle personally.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Others might love it and go for it.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Okay, so you might, yeah, you might love it, but
it's probably not going to be lucrative enough and it's
going to turn your hobby into a stress pot. So
let's just think about things that will make us money
and we can enjoy them. Maybe it's not our greatest passion,
but we enjoy them. And so we've been doing a
(32:43):
side hustle series where we are highlighting a lot of
different side hustles that are inexpensive or free to start,
that do make money, that have a high potential for
growing into actual full businesses, but can be done as
side hustles and are enjoyable. So definitely check out our
(33:04):
side hustle series for that. But do find something that
maybe is not your passion but is not miserable. And
that's my definition of enjoy.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
It's not miserable, but it's okay, wow, Well, I mean
I've got something that is definitely not miserable.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
And is more than okay, and I super enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Oh my gosh. If I could get paid for just this,
it would be the dream. But it's not super profitable.
Speaker 6 (33:40):
The Bill of the week, that's right, it's time for
the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe.
Speaker 6 (34:02):
Your car died, and you're happy to not.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
That bills blow bills, Bill Clay, this is the Bills
up the Week.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Hi, Jen and Jill.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
My name is Amanda.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
I'm from the Dallas Sport work area, and I want
to tell you about a bill that I think is
really fabulous. We started getting these bills in twenty twenty one.
So in the summer of twenty twenty one, we had
to switch utility companies. And my husband said that he
had a brilliant idea that was going to save us
(34:34):
a lot of money. And I was really excited because
I love saving a lot of money. And he said,
we're going to switch to an energy plan that allows
for us to use energy during the night for free,
so that's from eight pm to six am. And he said,
we're going to do a lot of stuff that requires
energy during that time. So we're going to charge our
(34:56):
electric vehicle, we're going to do our laundry, we're going
to run the swasher, and we're only going to run
the air conditioner at night.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
So it sounds like it might be torture, especially in
the Dallas Fort Worth.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Area, but we cool our entire house down to about
sixty five degrees at night, and then we just try
really hard to keep the doors closed for the most
part if we're going to be home. And we have
taken our monthly electric bill down from an average of
one hundred and twelve dollars a month to sixty dollars
a month just by using some of our heating elements
(35:34):
that draw out of electricity and our AC only at night.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Wow, so many layers to this. I love seeing like
the nighttime like usage thing. I didn't realize you could
get it for free at night. That's crazy. Also, yes,
the idea of not running the AC in Dallas scares me.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Your electric company did not see you come in.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
They did see you come in.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Didn't anticipate Amanda over here not using her a seed
during the day.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
But oh my gosh, cutting it by what is that
fifty bucks a month.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
I'm shocked actually at your electric bill even pre like
doing all of these changes. Yeah, sixty eight dollars for
an electric bill is insane.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
That so low is fantastic, So well done, and usually
well done for your husband. Who when my husband comes
to me and says something like that, I have a
great idea for the way we can save money, it's
usually an immediate no from Meuse.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You just know, like some sort of radical idea.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
All of our groceries from the dumpster, every single one
of them, uh huh No. But yours actually had an
idea and you got on board and it worked out.
So congrats Amanda.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well don if you all listening, have some story about
not using your utilities even when you really really are
quite hot.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Night laundry, you're doing.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Night laundry, you're doing you're doing night dishes.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
If you're doing night laundry, give us a call, like
on the nightline.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
It's the same line. It's still the same line, but
you can call it nightline. Oh you know the drill
for over Friends podcast dot com, slash bill. Leave us
your night time or daytime bill, and now it's time
for pew.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
All right, today's lightning round question, how did you overcome
the overwhelm of having more debt than you earn in
a year?
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Jill, I overcame it by it all. Yeah, I mean, honestly,
that is the ultimate overcome and it does feel really amazing.
But many of you know that I had about they're no, okay,
there was thirty six thousand of student loan debt. It
was about fifty six thousand dollars of debt that took
(38:19):
us seven years to pay off. So that was that
was a decent amount of time, and it had to
do with not making that much income in a year,
even household income, and so it really was doing this
thing for the long haul, which took a lot of
(38:39):
intentionality in taking hold of my thoughts not letting them
run wild. There is a concept within mental health therapy
of compartmentalizing various things, various things that might be stressful
or anxiety producing or overwhelming, and giving ourselves space to
(38:59):
thing about it, but then also identifying when, okay, that's
enough time and space that I've given my thoughts too,
And I'm going to even imagine visualize putting that topic
in a box and putting it on the bookshelf. It's
still there. I can revisit it whenever I want. I
can take it out, look at it, open up the box,
(39:22):
but then it's going to go back on the shelf.
It's not going to remain open. All the contents of
it sprawled everywhere, impacting and taking up space in other
aspects of my life. I think that was really helpful,
and we did talk about this in the articles, but
it was really helpful for me to know that I
had a plan having looked at it, knowing what the
(39:45):
debt is, how am I going to attack it? How
long do I think that's going to take? How much
money can I put towards it monthly, committing to myself
that if I do earn extra income, I'm going to
put this much more percentage towards And so there was
active effort happening. I was thinking about it quite a bit.
(40:05):
But I think over those seven years I did get
better and better at taking hold of those thoughts and
when they would be intrusive, reminding myself, I have a
plan for that, and the plan is going pretty decent.
This will be gone eventually, Okay, Thoughts in a box
on a shelf, I'm moving on.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
That's great. I love that.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
How about for you Jen?
Speaker 1 (40:27):
For me, it was it was really having the partnership
of my husband. And I know that we don't want
to say that a lot because we don't want to
isolate our single listeners. But I think there are a
lot of different tools you can use as a single person.
(40:49):
But I think if you are married or partnered, you
almost have no excuse if you have a partner on board,
Like there's just no excuse, like the team were aspect
of this is invaluable and you should take advantage of it.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
It goes both ways. I think sometimes you've got the
not getting on board, and that's a challenge of you know,
the couples. But when you are both on board, then
it's a benefit to be able to work together.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And I wasn't on board, and Travis really helped me
get on board. And one of the reasons I wasn't
on board was because of how big the debt was.
I put I put it off for years and years
because I had fifty thousand dollars of debt and I
was making probably about forty grand a year, and so
(41:39):
I just put it off and then and I said,
when I get a second income, you know, then I'll
pay it off. And then I was about to get
that and I was like, no, actually, I want to
live life now, like I've just been quote unquote broke
for so long, and so I wasn't going to do.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
It scope creep right, not lifestyle creep, scope creep good try.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So I was the partner that didn't want to get
on board, and it was it really took Travis reminding
me of the things that were going to be possible
if I did get on board, making it about me
and the things I wanted to do and accomplish, and
how much easier it would be if we just did
(42:20):
this one thing, how much easier everything else I wanted
would be. So he really made it about me, and
I love me. So that really got me on board.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
And so tip tip for anyone married to someone who
loves themselves thinking about them So.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
It was that that really helped. It was that support
and encouragement and knowing I would have somebody on my
team when things got hard, and that I did, he
followed through and was always there. That was really what
helped me overcome the overwhelm of seeing.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
That TeamWorks makes the dream work. So we were wrapping
up the Lightning Round with the things that helped us
to overcome the overwhelm, which yeah, is so interesting to
even still when we recorded it, we were both debt free,
(43:21):
but now we're even further away from it, and just
that reminder of what it takes, the grind that it
can feel to be in that place, but yet to
know that you're not alone, to know that there are
resources out there, to know that it can take time.
I mean, I know you share a lot of times
Jen about how you did it in two years. In
(43:43):
many ways that felt like way too fast, and for
Eric and I we did it in seven and that
often felt so laboriously slow. I just wanted to be
done with it, but it's what my circumstances could afford me. So, yeah,
everyone's story is going to be different, but we do
need to find what works for us to kind of
keep going, stay on track, not without breaks, but yeah,
(44:10):
to know that it is possible, but it might be
a long journey.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I think the important takeaway that I want to continue
to leave people with is that where you are now
is not where you have to be in the future.
I think we are we confine ourselves to our current status,
thinking I make sixty thousand dollars a year and I'm
(44:35):
capped out. That is where I am capt out at.
But it is absolutely not true. It may be a
cap for a certain job, maybe a cap for a
certain location, and we may not want to be at
a different job or a different location, But there's always
creativity that can happen to expand our opportunities. And thinking
(44:58):
that there's not is what limits so us. But opening
up and trying things, maybe not liking them, maybe failing,
just but trying things to earn more and pay off
debt faster is always worth it. It's always worth it.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Yeah, And what can happen on the other side of
debt freedom is really really amazing, you know. Then you
can find yourself in a place where you don't have
to focus on earning more. If that's not what you want,
then you could find yourself in a rewarding, potentially lesser
paying job like Those are the types of decisions we
can make when we don't have things like this weighing
(45:37):
us down. So thank you all so much for being here,
for listening, for reading our book by what you love
without going Broke. We wrote that book. You can get
it at buy what youlovebook dot com. And here's a
review to help you understand what that's about. From siopin
Doms five stars. I am so grateful that this book
(45:59):
found me in this particular season of life as someone
interested in personal finance. I've consumed an inordinate amount of
personal finance content. I've watched my personal finance knowledge and
needs evolve, and by way you Love without Going Broke
meets me exactly where I am better. Yet it provides
actionable insight to help me chart where I'd like to go.
(46:20):
Never punitive, but instead always curious. Gen and Jill's approach
to spending is refreshing and empowering. It provides a loving
path to identifying what we truly value and unpacking the
ways our spending may or may not be aligned in
a world with so much noise, be it influencers promoting
over consumption or personal finance educators praising deprivation, Yes, say it.
(46:42):
Jen and Jill introduce a radical middle that allows readers
to tune into what really matters. What a beautiful of you?
Oh my god, you get it?
Speaker 4 (46:51):
You?
Speaker 1 (46:52):
This is so true. Finding a radical middle between the
over consumption of advertising social media and the extremeism of
perfect personal finance is the sweet spot and everybody's radical
middle is different. And I'm just so I'm so pleased
(47:14):
to know that you got that. Thank you so please.
If you enjoyed the book, we would love to see
your review on Amazon. Even if you didn't buy it
from Amazon, you can still leave a review there, And
please subscribe on YouTube if you haven't already. It's so helpful,
and leave a comment with what you think of the
(47:37):
videos on Any video doesn't have to be relevant to
that video, just the most recent video. It's so helpful.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
See you next time. Bye.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Gorugle Friends is produced by Eric.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Sirianni Chenon on our YouTube channel. Do you have a
favorite video yet?
Speaker 1 (48:09):
I don't know. We are still trying things out right.
If you're a longtime listener, you've noticed some differences. We're
in a season of playing around. I think creators that
don't play get stale and quit. And we are both
so passionate about this topic and well, you know everything
(48:31):
we wrote the book on, right, we're still very passionate
about that, and we want to be doing this for
a long time, and we want to be doing it
in ways that still feel fresh and our meeting new audiences.
So we're playing around right now, and I don't know
if I have a favorite yet. I don't know if
(48:52):
we found our sweet spot. That's another reason we would
love to see your comments on YouTube, because we'd also
love to know, like your feeling.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
You in this ce that you'd want more of. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah, So I don't think I have a favorite. I
am loving finding like the Memorial Day episode we did
when we found the videos from social media, stitched those
together and did a like a commentary on it, kind
(49:25):
of gave the examples. Social media is our biggest barrier
when it comes to like reining in or spending because
it's always telling us to spend more, and I think
we always we will always need a reminder that this
is preying on your insecurity, This is praying on your
(49:46):
your goal, this is praying. This is what it's trying
to get you to spend money on by doing this.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
So yeah, oh, I mean, I gotta say I I
am loving the spending interventions. I'm not going to say yeah.
I mean I think that we we've got more to
learn with video. We are clearly podcasting experts, and we
know how to do that, but video we still feel
a little bit out of our elements. So it's still
us and I think that that's fun to be able
(50:13):
to see our reactions real time. And I hope that
our videos just get better and better. But as far
as content goes, I am really loving the spending interventions
and I really want people to love them too. Okay,
if they don't and they're just like nah, pivot, okay, fine,
but I still want people to like see it because
(50:36):
similar to you know, we just did this rerun on
paying Down Debt. That was a fairly successful series that
we did a couple of years ago on YouTube, was
the Debt Free Stories. We did ten episodes, not super
high video quality, but the content was really good and
helpful for people. And I think anytime we can share
(50:57):
stories of other people, ourselves and others see our experiences
in the stories of other people, it can give us
ideas and perspectives that we may not have come to
on our own. And so where you and I stop,
I think that's where I've loved our interviews. It's where
I love our interviews with experts as well as with
(51:20):
real people being able to dig into people's ninety day
transaction inventories. Helping individuals spend better can help the viewer
understand what they could be doing where they're like, oh, yeah,
I do that too. That makes sense to me. These
are the things that I'm personally really loving. But yeah,
(51:41):
we'll see what our audience is enjoying.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
I do love I do love doing that. So I
hope that we can do more in the future. I
hope people like it.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
We'll see. Go to YouTube, subscribe, tell us what you like.
What to do if you have more debt than you
make in a year.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to the Frugal Friends podcast, where you'll learn to
save money, embrace simplicity, and live a life here your
hosts Jen and Jill.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to Frugal Friends podcast. My name is Jen, my
name is Jill, and today we are talking about a
thing that so many of us struggle with, is having
more debt than the amount we earn in a year.
I was there when I started paying off debt. We
had seventy eight thousand dollars of debt and we did
(00:44):
not earn seventy eight thousand dollars in a year, but
we got it paid off in two years, and we're
going to talk about how we did that.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, same same I had thirty three thousand dollars in
just student loan debt and I did not make that
in a year. And that can be extra overwhelming when
you've got a lower income and more debt than you
make in a year, because it feels like an extra
hurdle to have to get over of. I already don't
(01:19):
make a ton of I'm very much living paycheck to paycheck.
Where am I going to find this money to pay
off the debt. But we're here to tell you that
it is possible, and we're going to give you some
hope and encouragement in this episode.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
But first, this episode is brought to you by our
Annual Finance Planner. I found that I had about twenty
different sheets, docs, and notes on my phone for everything
from the wellness checks that I get included with my
healthcare sharing or my health insurance, to the things I
(01:54):
have to do to maintain my home annually, my car
every fifty sixty thousand miles, my travel rewards cards, the
benefits that each had when I signed up, when I
have to cancel the card I want to get next,
all of these things. So what we did is that
we made an Annual finance Planner spreadsheet so you can
(02:16):
have all of those lists in one place, so you
can check it out at Frugal friendspodcast dot com slash planner.
If if you're listening to a previous episode and you
want to get our spending planner at that url, you
are out of luck because we've changed that to frugalfriendspodcast
dot com slash budget. But if you go to Frugal
(02:39):
friendspodcast dot com slash planner. You're going to see this
annual finance planner that we created and if you want
to use the code Summer fifty, you could even get
fifty percent off of it.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Love that.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, so frugal friendspodcast, dot com, slash planner. Check it
out and orgies your life.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
Yeah, it's so fun. I love having everything all in
one place like that.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yes, so this summer we typically every summer we do
a summer slow down where we will play more frequent
reruns of some of our most downloaded episodes from two
plus years ago, and this is one of them. You
guys loved this episode and we are replaying it for you.
(03:26):
It aged very well. So if you've been with us
for less than two years, this is going to be
brand new to you. But it's always good to have
a reminder if you have been with us, So we
hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Let's do it. Let's get into these articles. The first
one comes from CNBC and it's titled how to Stop
Obsessing over your debt according Next Expert. And I again,
I love the normalization in here. I think we don't.
(04:00):
I don't realize how much other people are thinking about
their finances. I know certainly for those in debt, it
can become all consuming, and so this was just helpful
to see some of the statistics of what most other
Americans are experiencing as it relates to their finances and
(04:22):
hopefully help you feel validated in that but then not
leave you there. Find ways to not feel as though
you're obsessing. But they reference a study, a twenty nineteen
study that came from the Ascent Just Meets Your Criteria Gen.
One thousand and seven people were just the minimum hold
(04:44):
in this research study, and they found that when it
comes to how often people are mulling over their bills,
looking at it, thinking about it, I don't know, doing
stuff with it, twenty eight percent said they think about
the money they oh every single day, followed by twenty
percent who think about their debt almost every day and
(05:07):
another twenty percent who do so several times a week.
That's a lot of mental and emotional space that this
is taking up. And I mean, finances are a part
of our daily lives. Like we think about food every day,
we probably think about some aspect of relationships every day.
It would make sense that something related to finances would
(05:28):
cross our minds. But I think they're pointing to specifically
the bills, the debt, and then the stress and overwhelm,
and it's not it didn't go so far as to
say like how long, how much of the day this
takes up, But if you've got debt on top of
just normal financial decisions that you're making, then it's probably
(05:49):
taking quite an emotional toll and you're not alone in that, which, yeah,
I think all of that is super helpful to recognize.
And so they're going into ways now to how do
we alleviate some of this stress and overwhelm and the
amount of times, the frequency throughout the day that we're
(06:09):
thinking about this, And the first tip that they give
is to realize that debt is often a part of life.
And I don't know that i've ever read this in
an article before, this kind of permission to say debt
will be there. It's not to say, oh well, then
just don't worry about it and collect more debt. Like
(06:31):
I think we're all on a very similar page of
we don't want this, but I think sometimes when we
have this really shameful attitude about it, or we feel
really guilty about the debt that we've taken on, we
can cause more overwhelm and strain to our mental and
emotional health and what's necessary, and so kind of taking
(06:51):
this more neutral approach, this more kind of radical middle
acceptance of debt is just a part of life. For
most of us. We got to take out student loans,
for most of us, we got to go with a
mortgage when we're buying a house, Like there are these
debts that are just a part of life. In today's
(07:12):
landscape with buying vehicles, taking out a car payment is
becoming more and more normalized. So I also really think
this is a helpful concept, even related to bigger part
like all of life. I think there's this myth about
self sufficiency and like extreme independence. I think that really
(07:34):
there is kind of an alongside, like we can't be
completely self sufficient in any aspect of life. We always
need help and support and some level of dependence. There
can be a healthy dependence, but I think that there's
a little bit of a myth of being completely independent,
(07:54):
meaning you need no one and nothing, And so I
think kind of putting debt on under that category of
sometimes this the support of a lender, a helping hand
is necessary, and man, that takes a lot of shame
out of it.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm pretty sick of the narrative that debt
is the enemy. That like we believe, debt is neutral.
There is no good or bad debt, And there is
debt that limits your financial opportunity, and there is debt
that can aid in financial opportunity, And the same debt
(08:34):
can be either of those, so you can use it.
You can use debt alone to purchase a house or
a car that is very helpful to gaining wealth and
security and financial freedom. You can take out a loan
for a house or a car that is very detrimental
(08:55):
to reaching financial freedom or building wealth. So there is
no good or bad debt. So I'm sick of this
narrative that debt is the enemy. Debt is a part
of life, and I think once we realize that, then
you don't have to live in the extremes of oh
I live completely debt free, or oh I can't live
(09:17):
completely debt free, so I might as well just take
out debt for everything and take out as much of
it as I want when you are When you are
done living in those extremes, then you can think critically
about the role that debt plays in your life.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
So well, said.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Yes, and then you've got this picture of Susie Orman
right underneath where she's like pointing and she's like, throw
away your financial to do list.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Oh man, oh my gosh, hot takes. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, Susie, hope your new book goes well.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
All right.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Number two is consider how much debt you actually have.
And so again on this continuation of the idea, there
is no good or debt is neutral. Debt is a tool.
I mean, a hammer is a tool. It's great when
you're hammering in a nail. It's horrible when you're like
(10:09):
hammering your thumb because you missed the nail.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
So it's the same tool renovation, right, bash or a sponsor.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
The hammer is not evil because you hit your thumb
with it. So you need to consider how much debt
a you actually have and be what you actually need.
So I spent a lot of time feeling shame and
guilt when I had debt because I was under this
(10:37):
narrative that debt is the enemy, and I let debt
into my life. I opened the door for the enemy essentially,
So that gave me like a lot of guilt and
shame when I was paying off debt. But I think
if I could have reframed, if I had the perspective
that I have now, I could have really thought more
critically about it and said, Okay, how much how much
(10:58):
debt do I have? Which of these debts are limiting
me in my financial growth, and so what needs to
be taken care of? And I would have made the
same decision that I made to pay off all of
our student loans to pay off our car. I would
have made the same decision. I don't regret paying off
(11:20):
all of those, but I would have felt a lot
less miserable about myself as a person because of having
that debt. So I would say the article is saying,
it's not that you shouldn't be concerned about carrying debt,
but just concerned about how much you have. I think
(11:40):
it's really just a call to look at what you
could do without the debt. Think about your values, think
about your deeper why, think about your family, your friends,
all the things you could be doing without the debt,
and let that be the guide for why you pay
it off. Not because the debt itself is the enemy.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Yes, the deeper reason, and often we can connect to
that deeper reason more than something that could feel arbitrary,
just this number on a screen or a piece of paper.
Number three I really love, which is ask yourself whether
you're making progress. If you're doing everything reasonably possible given
(12:21):
your circumstances to becoming debt free, then this could be
some level of permission to not continually obsess over money.
If you are throwing any additional bonuses or unexpected income
towards debt repayment, if you are cutting back in one
(12:43):
specific area of life or going out to eat or
entertainment in order to put more money towards debt, even
if it's small, or you just have a plan of
some sort, this could give the freedom that's necessary to
be able to let yourself rine and the fact that
you're making progress, which can definitely limit the amount that
(13:06):
we are thinking about it, the amount of space. Not
to say we're not going to have thoughts about it,
but if we know, no, I'm doing something towards this,
it doesn't mean that I'm experiencing debt freedom immediately, but
progress is happening. That can have a profound impact on
the level of obsession that we experience. And they give
(13:27):
examples of a mortgage payment obviously we could apply this
to any other type of debt payment, but they reference
that if your mortgage payment is twelve hundred dollars a
month and you just add an additional one hundred per
month to the payment, make sure it goes to the principle,
then you would be making an extra payment on your
house essentially by the end of the year, And just
(13:48):
that one hundred dollars extra per month could shave off
four years of payments and thousands of interest over the
lifetime of that loan, which is massive, like months to month,
probably wouldn't feel like a whole lot extra coming out
of your bank account, but you are doing more than
just the bare minimum, which we can rest in that
(14:11):
we're not always going to be able to do everything,
and I love why. That's why they say within your
means and with what's reasonable. Having that plan in place,
knowing that you're making progress can really cause some of
that piece to enter in and weigh less obsession.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Absolutely, And so the fourth and final one of how
to limit this obsession and overallhelm with a big, big
number on your debt is consider the why behind your debt.
And so we think about the why behind why we
want to pay off debt. That is something we talk
about a lot, but in that we often forget the
(14:55):
why behind our debt, and that can cause us to
feel really bad about it, a lot of guilt about it.
And this was something that I experienced, like very very critically.
I mean, I felt so dumb and my debt was
just student loans and I had four thousand on a
(15:17):
car that I paid off very quickly. The bulk of
it was student loans, and I felt so dumb for
taking out these loans. And when I looked back and
thought about why why did I take out student loans?
It wasn't like I was impulse buying a degree. I
(15:37):
was doing something that I was studying, something that I
wanted to do that I don't regret studying or doing
that led me to where I am in my life
right now, And all the great things that I have
right now are by some degree a direct result of
getting that degree. Yeah, and so nothing me regrets taking
(16:02):
out that money and getting that degree.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah. I love this question because this is another one
that's not talked about. I wish I had this article
during my debt free journey. There's so much that I
just had to kind of come up with on my
own of how to muddle through. And this probably did exist,
I just I don't know. I wasn't looking for it.
But this question of putting meaning to the debt, not
(16:27):
just meaning to the future financial goals, can really help
us to feel again the removal of shame. I think
so much of the obsession with the debt can be
very integrally connected with whether or not we feel guilt
or shame over it, and we just want that gone,
like we want the guilt and shame gone. But we
can get rid of the guilt and shame far before
(16:49):
the debt is actually paid off as we begin to
implement some of these mindset shifts. And yeah, I think too,
we can choose whether or not we value that. I
think oftentimes I knew the why for the debt, and
I was upset at the why, Like I got upset
with myself for going to college, like that was a
waste of money and now I'm still not making more
(17:11):
than what I owe back in debt. But that was
a mindset choice, like I chose to not value my education,
so I even needed to back up from there. I'm
speaking to my past self to have valued that because
maybe I didn't feel the value of my education in
that moment, but fifteen years later I am. Fifteen years later,
(17:32):
I'm very glad that I got my bachelor's and then
my master's and there was a reason and a benefit
to that debt. I just yeah, I think valuing it
and attaching a level of meaning to it that's going
to be helpful rather than a hindrance. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
And if that's not your story, maybe you actually don't
love your degree, or maybe your debt is more consumer.
I would still challenge you to think about the seasons
and the events in your life that were a direct
result of those experiences that were provided by this quote
unquote debt.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, they're still learning. That's happening even if you're in
debt because you just wanted to go on all of
the vacations. Value those memories, find ways to attach meaning
to that, and then learn from it. How do I
want to now spend my vacations in the future that
aren't going to feel so overwhelming or all consuming?
Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Oh beautiful. I'm so glad these articles are being written. Yes, Okay,
So this next article comes from Oh the Maley Fool,
and it's talking about five tips to lower your debt
to income ratio. If anyone has applied for a loan,
mortgage trying to buy a car, this suddenly becomes very important.
Speaker 4 (18:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
So the first article was more of like, okay, what
do we do with the psychoge ramifications of having more
debt than we earn in a year? And this one
is more of the practical aspects of Okay, what happens
to me financially if I have a really high debt
to income ratio. So we're gonna go over these tips
(19:18):
just to give a little practical info.
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yes, kick us off, Jen.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
All right, So the first one, if you have a
high debt to income ratio, and let me just first,
let's figure out how to calculate our debt to income ratio,
which was also called a DTI, which is actually very
important when getting a mortgage, but can be in other
(19:46):
ways just in life. So let's say you earned six
thousand dollars a month before taxes. That's what we're going
to use in the DTI is the gross income, so
that's six thousand per month, and then you calculate all
of your monthly debts, so that's mortgage or rent, they
will include rent in their auto loan, credit cards, personal loans, hoa, fees, alimony,
(20:13):
child support, all of that, and say that adds up
to twenty five hundred. So to calculate your DTI, you
divide twenty five hundred by six thousand, so debt divided
by income gross income, and then multiply by one hundred.
So twenty five hundred divided by six thousand is point
(20:35):
four to one six times one hundred. That's forty one
point six percent. So the ideal debt to income is
let's see, I think it's about thirty thirty six percent
is the quote unquote acceptable ratio. Anything higher and lenders
(20:55):
begin to worry. If you're in a fifty percent DTI,
you will not be able to get a mortgage unless
you have some creative financing strategy. So you've got to
stay below fifty, which, for in our example, if you
earn six thousand before taxes and your debts are three thousand,
(21:16):
so just five hundred dollars more, then you've really very
limited as to what you can do if you're trying
to buy a house. So we are trying to stay
below thirty six percent debt to income ratio. So if
you find yourself, I would say anywhere above thirty percent,
(21:36):
it should be your goal kind to really work on this,
especially if you're trying to buy a house, and the
first way you would do that is to pay down
high balances. And I would say, look, just pay down balances, honestly,
because they're not differentiating between type of debt. This is
not like your credit score where they're taking into consideration
(21:59):
types of debt. They are simply looking just at balances.
So pay down any balance and so then you will
get closer to that thirty six or below percent DTI.
It's going You're going to reduce it with every balance
you pay down.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
Right, I appreciate this perspective because if your amount of
debt is more than what you earn in a year,
then we're not going to get it gone super quickly.
And so this is more of that reduction model aimed
at eventually becoming debt free. But for many of us,
we're going to carry a mortgage for a good part
(22:40):
of our working lives, and so what is the important
thing to focus on. This would be kind of one
of those first steps, like when we talk about the
financial picture as a whole and creating an emergency fund
is one of the first steps. Similarly, when it comes
to our debt, looking at our debt to income ratio
and lowering that is going to be one of the
(23:02):
first steps. And combined with that, number two is lower
your interest on debt. We talk about this a ton.
Some of the ways that you can do that, I mean,
first of all, would be to look at paying down
first your highest interest debts. That will cause you to
not have to pay as much of that interest. It's
(23:23):
a good place to start. It means you're also getting
rid of debt. They also reference I had not thought
of this before, but to call your lender and ask
for a reduction in the interest. Right, if you've been
working with that particular financial institution for a while, and
if you've been paying regularly and on time, they may
(23:43):
want to keep you enough as a customer to lower
that rate because they know you could transfer that loan elsewhere.
So those are a couple. I mean again, first of all,
just paying off your highest interest debts, calling around and
asking it for lower rates would be a really great idea. Again,
to lower that debt to income ratio.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Yeah, it does say consider getting a personal loan or
a credit card to lower these. But I think the
main reason you would focus on lowering your DTI is
to get a house, and they don't want to see
you opening anything new in the last six months, So
I wouldn't agree with that advice. But I would say
(24:24):
normally we're neutral on debt avalanche versus debt snowball to
pay off debt, I would say, if your goal is
to get a house pretty soon, to go more with
the debt avalanche because you're going to be able to
lower your debt balance a little quicker. It doesn't give
you the psychological thrill that the snowball will. But we're
looking to make a decision that will be largely based
(24:46):
on math, and so this would be the time to
use a math tool to get that down lower. So
this would be a place where we would favor the
avalanche over the snowball. Is to put credit cards on ice,
and so.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
They aren't affordably.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
They are literally saying some people have found that freezing
their credit cards in a literal block of eye provides
them with the time they need to talk themselves out
of unnecessary purchases. So you can do that, But I think,
especially now that most of our credit cards are saved
on our computer, this becomes less advantageous, and I think
(25:29):
just locking them so you can go into Chase, Bank
of America, whatever and lock the card. It shouldn't impede
any recurring payments that come out, but any like new payments,
any anythings like that, but double check with your bank.
(25:53):
So this is a very good strategy if you need
some extra barriers to going into debt.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yes, the next tip for lowering your debt to income
ratio is to implement a twenty four hour rule. And
I will argue that this is a great one for
all of us. This is just a little frugal principle
of being patient, giving ourselves margin and space in between
(26:24):
wanting to purchase something and actually purchasing that item. But
particularly when we are in debt payoff mode, not spending
additional money that we don't need to spend is going
to be really helpful. It's going to free up a
lot of those finances to be able to put as
much money towards the debt as possible. And so with
(26:46):
the twenty four hour rule, it's if you want to
purchase anything, and I would add anything that's outside of
what you have to buy your food, your bills, your
housing and transportation, things that you you have planned for
to spend on things above and beyond that. This is
really interrupting impulse spending. It's just one of those things
(27:09):
that we can implement a rule for ourselves to wait
the twenty four hours, allow ourselves time to think through
do I actually want to purchase that thing that I
just saw in the store. Is it actually going to
solve a problem improve my life? Is it a necessary thing?
Or would it be more advantageous for me to put
(27:31):
whatever money I was just about to spend on that
item towards my debt or again, for those who are
even debt free, towards any other financial goal. They give
the example of like being out shopping with a friend
and seeing a really lovely buffet table that would fit
perfectly in your dining room, and it's already been discounted
several times. That is where it would get me like, oh,
(27:53):
and it's on sale and it's calling my name and
it's perfect, and they're like things have been on sale
a lot. It doesn't mean that you have to buy them,
and it doesn't mean that you have to buy it
right away. You can give it twenty four hours consider it.
And if you've given it twenty four hours and you
still think that's a great thing. Great. Most of the time, though,
(28:13):
when we create space in between something that feels like
it's drawing us in and calling our name, when we're
no longer right in front of that giving ourselves that time,
most likely we're not going to end up buying it,
and we can make better decisions with our money. It's
really this kind of training ground for that.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yes, So there is a free Chrome extension that I
love for this, and it's called icebox. It's by Finder
dot com and you can just go in and google
ice box, buy finder dot com and you'll get the
page straight to the Google Chrome extension. I don't think
(28:53):
it has any other extensions for any other browsers, but
if you use Chrome, it's so wonderful. It replaces buy
now but on popular e commerce stores with a put
it on ice button, and you get to decide how
long that cool off period. So they call it how
(29:13):
long the cool off period is, and so you could
say twenty four hours. I want it to go into
my ice box for twenty four hours before I'm able
to purchase it. So you put it on ice, and
then the countdown starts, it goes into your ice box,
and then twenty four hours later that button changes back
to an ad to cart.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
But people love putting stuff on ice, putting your credit
cards and your freezer, putting purchases. Yeah, fictitional ice box
on the computer.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
So yes, after that cooling period, you can decide if
you still want it or you can discard it. And
I think it's wonderful you kind of course turn it off.
It's not going to limit you, you know, if you
do need something in an emergency, but most things are not.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
The nice thing about putting spending on ice is that
then we can put our debt on fire. There's an
equal and opposite reaction.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
That's That's a good one, Jill.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
Thanks cool. What's the next one?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
All right? The next on this article is to take
on a side hustle you can enjoy.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
I like that second bit, yeah, right, that you enjoy?
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yes, So there we all work hard, right, like nobody's
over here trying to scam the system, no matter how
many people try and say, millennials are not working and
trying to scam the system. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
I am trying to retire my Jill.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
You have your you. I try and save you in
these episodes, and then you go straight off and you're like,
I would like to incriminate myself more. Anyways, I really
do believe that everybody listening to the show and beyond
we really are trying to make the most of the
(31:10):
limited life we've been given. And so while yes, I
think we do, some of us are in a position
to do more work than others. Like if you are single,
if you have no kids, you are in a unique
time in your life to be able to do more
than those of us who have multiple children, who are
(31:33):
kicking us in the organs inside of our bodies.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
There's just one in there.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
There's not one.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
She's got one outside of her that maybe sometimes kicks here.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
No, Okay, thankfully he's not a kicker. But so, yeah,
you are in a unique season of life. And even
if maybe you do have kids and you maybe find
some time, you don't want to spend that time miserable.
So let's look for side hustles we can enjoy that
are actually profitable. So I'm not talking about like crocheting,
(32:04):
hats in Florida and selling them at the farmer's.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Market, although the malifool is talking about that, not gonna lie.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, I'm not for that. I don't like crafts as
a side hustle personally.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
Others might love it and go for it.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Okay, so you might, yeah, you might love it, but
it's probably not going to be lucrative enough and it's
going to turn your hobby into a stress pot. So
let's just think about things that will make us money
and we can enjoy them. Maybe it's not our greatest passion,
but we enjoy them. And so we've been doing a
(32:43):
side hustle series where we are highlighting a lot of
different side hustles that are inexpensive or free to start,
that do make money, that have a high potential for
growing into actual full businesses, but can be done as
side hustles and are enjoyable. So definitely check out our
(33:04):
side hustle series for that. But do find something that
maybe is not your passion but is not miserable. And
that's my definition of enjoy.
Speaker 5 (33:18):
It's not miserable, but it's okay, wow, Well, I mean
I've got something that is definitely not miserable.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
And is more than okay, and I super enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Oh my gosh. If I could get paid for just this,
it would be the dream. But it's not super profitable.
Speaker 6 (33:40):
The Bill of the week, that's right, it's time for
the best minute of your entire week.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Maybe a baby was born and his name is Williams.
Maybe you've paid off your mortgage, maybe.
Speaker 6 (34:02):
Your car died, and you're happy to not.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Have to pay that bill anymore.
Speaker 6 (34:06):
That bills blow bills, Bill Clay, this is the Bills
up the Week.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Hi, Jen and Jill.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
My name is Amanda.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
I'm from the Dallas Sport work area, and I want
to tell you about a bill that I think is
really fabulous. We started getting these bills in twenty twenty one.
So in the summer of twenty twenty one, we had
to switch utility companies. And my husband said that he
had a brilliant idea that was going to save us
(34:34):
a lot of money. And I was really excited because
I love saving a lot of money. And he said,
we're going to switch to an energy plan that allows
for us to use energy during the night for free,
so that's from eight pm to six am. And he said,
we're going to do a lot of stuff that requires
energy during that time. So we're going to charge our
(34:56):
electric vehicle, we're going to do our laundry, we're going
to run the swasher, and we're only going to run
the air conditioner at night.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
So it sounds like it might be torture, especially in
the Dallas Fort Worth.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
Area, but we cool our entire house down to about
sixty five degrees at night, and then we just try
really hard to keep the doors closed for the most
part if we're going to be home. And we have
taken our monthly electric bill down from an average of
one hundred and twelve dollars a month to sixty dollars
a month just by using some of our heating elements
(35:34):
that draw out of electricity and our AC only at night.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Wow, so many layers to this. I love seeing like
the nighttime like usage thing. I didn't realize you could
get it for free at night. That's crazy. Also, yes,
the idea of not running the AC in Dallas scares me.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Your electric company did not see you come in.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
They did see you come in.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Didn't anticipate Amanda over here not using her a seed
during the day.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
But oh my gosh, cutting it by what is that
fifty bucks a month.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
I'm shocked actually at your electric bill even pre like
doing all of these changes. Yeah, sixty eight dollars for
an electric bill is insane.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
That so low is fantastic, So well done, and usually
well done for your husband. Who when my husband comes
to me and says something like that, I have a
great idea for the way we can save money, it's
usually an immediate no from Meuse.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You just know, like some sort of radical idea.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
All of our groceries from the dumpster, every single one
of them, uh huh No. But yours actually had an
idea and you got on board and it worked out.
So congrats Amanda.
Speaker 3 (37:01):
Well don if you all listening, have some story about
not using your utilities even when you really really are
quite hot.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Night laundry, you're doing.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Night laundry, you're doing you're doing night dishes.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
If you're doing night laundry, give us a call, like
on the nightline.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
It's the same line. It's still the same line, but
you can call it nightline. Oh you know the drill
for over Friends podcast dot com, slash bill. Leave us
your night time or daytime bill, and now it's time
for pew.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
All right, today's lightning round question, how did you overcome
the overwhelm of having more debt than you earn in
a year?
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Jill, I overcame it by it all. Yeah, I mean, honestly,
that is the ultimate overcome and it does feel really amazing.
But many of you know that I had about they're no, okay,
there was thirty six thousand of student loan debt. It
was about fifty six thousand dollars of debt that took
(38:19):
us seven years to pay off. So that was that
was a decent amount of time, and it had to
do with not making that much income in a year,
even household income, and so it really was doing this
thing for the long haul, which took a lot of
(38:39):
intentionality in taking hold of my thoughts not letting them
run wild. There is a concept within mental health therapy
of compartmentalizing various things, various things that might be stressful
or anxiety producing or overwhelming, and giving ourselves space to
(38:59):
thing about it, but then also identifying when, okay, that's
enough time and space that I've given my thoughts too,
And I'm going to even imagine visualize putting that topic
in a box and putting it on the bookshelf. It's
still there. I can revisit it whenever I want. I
can take it out, look at it, open up the box,
(39:22):
but then it's going to go back on the shelf.
It's not going to remain open. All the contents of
it sprawled everywhere, impacting and taking up space in other
aspects of my life. I think that was really helpful,
and we did talk about this in the articles, but
it was really helpful for me to know that I
had a plan having looked at it, knowing what the
(39:45):
debt is, how am I going to attack it? How
long do I think that's going to take? How much
money can I put towards it monthly, committing to myself
that if I do earn extra income, I'm going to
put this much more percentage towards And so there was
active effort happening. I was thinking about it quite a bit.
(40:05):
But I think over those seven years I did get
better and better at taking hold of those thoughts and
when they would be intrusive, reminding myself, I have a
plan for that, and the plan is going pretty decent.
This will be gone eventually, Okay, Thoughts in a box
on a shelf, I'm moving on.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
That's great. I love that.
Speaker 3 (40:25):
How about for you Jen?
Speaker 1 (40:27):
For me, it was it was really having the partnership
of my husband. And I know that we don't want
to say that a lot because we don't want to
isolate our single listeners. But I think there are a
lot of different tools you can use as a single person.
(40:49):
But I think if you are married or partnered, you
almost have no excuse if you have a partner on board,
Like there's just no excuse, like the team were aspect
of this is invaluable and you should take advantage of it.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
It goes both ways. I think sometimes you've got the
not getting on board, and that's a challenge of you know,
the couples. But when you are both on board, then
it's a benefit to be able to work together.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
And I wasn't on board, and Travis really helped me
get on board. And one of the reasons I wasn't
on board was because of how big the debt was.
I put I put it off for years and years
because I had fifty thousand dollars of debt and I
was making probably about forty grand a year, and so
(41:39):
I just put it off and then and I said,
when I get a second income, you know, then I'll
pay it off. And then I was about to get
that and I was like, no, actually, I want to
live life now, like I've just been quote unquote broke
for so long, and so I wasn't going to do.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
It scope creep right, not lifestyle creep, scope creep good try.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
So I was the partner that didn't want to get
on board, and it was it really took Travis reminding
me of the things that were going to be possible
if I did get on board, making it about me
and the things I wanted to do and accomplish, and
how much easier it would be if we just did
(42:20):
this one thing, how much easier everything else I wanted
would be. So he really made it about me, and
I love me. So that really got me on board.
Speaker 3 (42:30):
And so tip tip for anyone married to someone who
loves themselves thinking about them So.
Speaker 1 (42:39):
It was that that really helped. It was that support
and encouragement and knowing I would have somebody on my
team when things got hard, and that I did, he
followed through and was always there. That was really what
helped me overcome the overwhelm of seeing.
Speaker 3 (42:59):
That TeamWorks makes the dream work. So we were wrapping
up the Lightning Round with the things that helped us
to overcome the overwhelm, which yeah, is so interesting to
even still when we recorded it, we were both debt free,
(43:21):
but now we're even further away from it, and just
that reminder of what it takes, the grind that it
can feel to be in that place, but yet to
know that you're not alone, to know that there are
resources out there, to know that it can take time.
I mean, I know you share a lot of times
Jen about how you did it in two years. In
(43:43):
many ways that felt like way too fast, and for
Eric and I we did it in seven and that
often felt so laboriously slow. I just wanted to be
done with it, but it's what my circumstances could afford me. So, yeah,
everyone's story is going to be different, but we do
need to find what works for us to kind of
keep going, stay on track, not without breaks, but yeah,
(44:10):
to know that it is possible, but it might be
a long journey.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
I think the important takeaway that I want to continue
to leave people with is that where you are now
is not where you have to be in the future.
I think we are we confine ourselves to our current status,
thinking I make sixty thousand dollars a year and I'm
(44:35):
capped out. That is where I am capt out at.
But it is absolutely not true. It may be a
cap for a certain job, maybe a cap for a
certain location, and we may not want to be at
a different job or a different location, But there's always
creativity that can happen to expand our opportunities. And thinking
(44:58):
that there's not is what limits so us. But opening
up and trying things, maybe not liking them, maybe failing,
just but trying things to earn more and pay off
debt faster is always worth it. It's always worth it.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Yeah, And what can happen on the other side of
debt freedom is really really amazing, you know. Then you
can find yourself in a place where you don't have
to focus on earning more. If that's not what you want,
then you could find yourself in a rewarding, potentially lesser
paying job like Those are the types of decisions we
can make when we don't have things like this weighing
(45:37):
us down. So thank you all so much for being here,
for listening, for reading our book by what you love
without going Broke. We wrote that book. You can get
it at buy what youlovebook dot com. And here's a
review to help you understand what that's about. From siopin
Doms five stars. I am so grateful that this book
(45:59):
found me in this particular season of life as someone
interested in personal finance. I've consumed an inordinate amount of
personal finance content. I've watched my personal finance knowledge and
needs evolve, and by way you Love without Going Broke
meets me exactly where I am better. Yet it provides
actionable insight to help me chart where I'd like to go.
(46:20):
Never punitive, but instead always curious. Gen and Jill's approach
to spending is refreshing and empowering. It provides a loving
path to identifying what we truly value and unpacking the
ways our spending may or may not be aligned in
a world with so much noise, be it influencers promoting
over consumption or personal finance educators praising deprivation, Yes, say it.
(46:42):
Jen and Jill introduce a radical middle that allows readers
to tune into what really matters. What a beautiful of you?
Oh my god, you get it?
Speaker 4 (46:51):
You?
Speaker 1 (46:52):
This is so true. Finding a radical middle between the
over consumption of advertising social media and the extremeism of
perfect personal finance is the sweet spot and everybody's radical
middle is different. And I'm just so I'm so pleased
(47:14):
to know that you got that. Thank you so please.
If you enjoyed the book, we would love to see
your review on Amazon. Even if you didn't buy it
from Amazon, you can still leave a review there, And
please subscribe on YouTube if you haven't already. It's so helpful,
and leave a comment with what you think of the
(47:37):
videos on Any video doesn't have to be relevant to
that video, just the most recent video. It's so helpful.
Speaker 3 (47:45):
See you next time. Bye.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Gorugle Friends is produced by Eric.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Sirianni Chenon on our YouTube channel. Do you have a
favorite video yet?
Speaker 1 (48:09):
I don't know. We are still trying things out right.
If you're a longtime listener, you've noticed some differences. We're
in a season of playing around. I think creators that
don't play get stale and quit. And we are both
so passionate about this topic and well, you know everything
(48:31):
we wrote the book on, right, we're still very passionate
about that, and we want to be doing this for
a long time, and we want to be doing it
in ways that still feel fresh and our meeting new audiences.
So we're playing around right now, and I don't know
if I have a favorite yet. I don't know if
(48:52):
we found our sweet spot. That's another reason we would
love to see your comments on YouTube, because we'd also
love to know, like your feeling.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
You in this ce that you'd want more of. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:04):
Yeah, So I don't think I have a favorite. I
am loving finding like the Memorial Day episode we did
when we found the videos from social media, stitched those
together and did a like a commentary on it, kind
(49:25):
of gave the examples. Social media is our biggest barrier
when it comes to like reining in or spending because
it's always telling us to spend more, and I think
we always we will always need a reminder that this
is preying on your insecurity, This is praying on your
(49:46):
your goal, this is praying. This is what it's trying
to get you to spend money on by doing this.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
So yeah, oh, I mean, I gotta say I I
am loving the spending interventions. I'm not going to say yeah.
I mean I think that we we've got more to
learn with video. We are clearly podcasting experts, and we
know how to do that, but video we still feel
a little bit out of our elements. So it's still
us and I think that that's fun to be able
(50:13):
to see our reactions real time. And I hope that
our videos just get better and better. But as far
as content goes, I am really loving the spending interventions
and I really want people to love them too. Okay,
if they don't and they're just like nah, pivot, okay, fine,
but I still want people to like see it because
(50:36):
similar to you know, we just did this rerun on
paying Down Debt. That was a fairly successful series that
we did a couple of years ago on YouTube, was
the Debt Free Stories. We did ten episodes, not super
high video quality, but the content was really good and
helpful for people. And I think anytime we can share
(50:57):
stories of other people, ourselves and others see our experiences
in the stories of other people, it can give us
ideas and perspectives that we may not have come to
on our own. And so where you and I stop,
I think that's where I've loved our interviews. It's where
I love our interviews with experts as well as with
(51:20):
real people being able to dig into people's ninety day
transaction inventories. Helping individuals spend better can help the viewer
understand what they could be doing where they're like, oh, yeah,
I do that too. That makes sense to me. These
are the things that I'm personally really loving. But yeah,
(51:41):
we'll see what our audience is enjoying.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
I do love I do love doing that. So I
hope that we can do more in the future. I
hope people like it.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
We'll see. Go to YouTube, subscribe, tell us what you like.
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