October 24, 2025 • 47 mins
This week, Azzi and Ashanti are joined by basketball icon Sue Bird, and it’s giving legend energy from the jump. They swap UConn stories — yes, the CD games, the pantyhose era, all of it — and talk about how much the game (and the world) has changed since Sue’s college days.
Sue opens up about leadership, what confidence really looks like, and how to handle the pressure that comes with being that girl on and off the court. Azzi and Ashanti even force Sue to rate some of her classic fits throughout the years.
Check out Sue's Podcasts!
A Touch More- https://www.atouchmore.com/
Bird's Eye View- https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/birds-eye-view-with-sue-bird/id1812530040
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of fut Around
and find out. I'm here with my girl a shanty Ashanti.
What's up, hey.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Girl, Nothing, just enjoying life as you usually. I actually
got to see your first game, so I was super
excited about that. We went up to the mohegan Son,
I got to hang out with your family, and I
got to watch you play hit five threes in seven minutes.
But and yet ultimately you call one and I was
(00:31):
just I had a great time.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
So thank you for that, And how did it feel?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thanks for coming. It was a lot of fun. I mean,
it wasn't the prettiest. It was our first, our first
game against you know, a real team, but it was
a lot of fun. I thought it was a great
I don't know, I mean, it was also kind of
weird starting so early. You usually don't have like our
scrimmage until this week, and it's closed, there's no fans,
(00:55):
so to be out there the first time playing against
someone in front of a big crowd, it was a
little different. But it was definitely fun, definitely a good
learning experience for all of us. I enjoyed it, and
it was so nice to see you, to see my family.
I see my brother and some other family friends. But
I'm curious for you, what was the experience like for
you Sitting with my family, Yo, they seemed like a
(01:15):
little a little more team that game. Plus my grandparents
weren't there.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You know what, I will say, it definitely did give
a little bit more tame based on, like, you know,
the things that we've talked about. But it was so
much fun. So first of all, I want to say,
your fan base is amazing. I was waiting online, waiting
on the door to open, and a couple of people
came up and they were telling me how they love
you and they loved the podcast, and I was just like,
(01:41):
you have like the best fans in They're so so sweet.
And then so now I'm waiting in the front of
line with your family and we're like laughing and joking
and people love them too, so that was like it
was crazy. And then we get there and we're like,
of course cheering for you and talking and interacting with
the other Yukon parents, and then I ended up actually
staying at the cottage, so that was like the whole
(02:04):
experience was amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Your parents super dope, their friends.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I was like, I was blown away by their hospitality
and like, I don't know, I can't.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I couldn't ask for a better first game experience.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
That was the first time I've got to like watch
you as I know you and in person, and so
overall ten out of ten I loved every second of
it and I was laughing the whole time. So your
family is crazy and a lot of.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Fun they are.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Then just wait until you go to a real game,
a gamble game, and my grandparents are here, Pop is there.
Everything gets raised a couple of notches.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, I definitely will be at a couple games this season,
so I'm looking forward to the experience.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So you have a media day coming up in New
York City. I saw on I think like Yukon or
someone released it where it said you and Sarah Strong
are going to represent Yukon Dot at Masson Square Garden.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yes, I actually have a pretty busy week coming up.
But first on the list is biggest mediaday in New York.
This will be which actually crazy to think. I think
I've been to all of them, so it's been my
fifth one. Sarah and I are going down with Coach Gon.
Have a nice fun car ride together. Hopefully get some
some sort of good food before you leave.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, definitely, ort girl, you know me, you get you
some Oh we eaty healthy because you know my first
now I'll say, is pizza.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I know my tummy's gonna hurt.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
No, no, no, don't switch off.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And I'm wearing a dress in a few days, so
I'm like, you know, I can't be bloated if I'm
about to put a tight dress on.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
So that's fair, that's fair. I'm excited for you to
be down in New York. I think if you're gonna
eat food, stick to healthy. There's still some good healthy stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
There's a lot of good healthy options. There's a lot
of good options period in New York.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Thank you. I like to say so myself.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I'll let you know what I eat, Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Let me know how the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I wish I could go support, but I'm supporting from
Afar always.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You're like, don't go, don't go. No, I got you.
And then you have what is it called on the
twenty third, Yeah, when.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
We have our championship dinner. So we have dinner. I
think there'll be some donors, some other people and all
my parents are going nice, and I believe they'll be
like a couple of panels. I know I'm doing a panel.
I think Sarah will be on a panel, maybe with me. Actually,
I know Page will beyond one, Coach will beyond one,
and then we get to see our rings or we
get to have our rings, but this will be our
(04:37):
first time seeing them in person. We got to help
Dupper clock or the seniors help design them, but that
was months ago, so I honestly kind of forget what
we what we picked out. So I'm so excited to
see them. I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I'm excited for you. That's amazing and you guys earned it,
so good stuff. I'm like, it's gonna be I'm so excit.
I'll have to call you after to show you. Absolutely,
please FaceTime me. I want to be blinded. I actually
want to tell you first, to show you my fit.
It's not like, yeah, it's not it's nothing like crazy
or special. But it is a dress.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Oh yes, is it pink?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It's like the only colored dress I have my closets,
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
As you should. But yes, I want to see no fit.
I want to see the shoes.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I want to know the look you're going with I'm
tapped in, I'm invested.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Okay perfect. I might even do my makeup myself that night.
If we decide to get crazy, please.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Just FaceTime me. Just put me on the side.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I'm gonna look nothing like your makeup. I need a
lesson from you on how to do makeup.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I learned on YouTube. YouTube.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's how I'm learning. YouTube and teammates.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
YouTube and teammates. You know, you always have the girls
who are always pening the makeup on before the game.
I used to just watch is it just be like hmm,
can you do that to me?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Please?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So I'm like right next to Jan and I'm like,
Janna helps like this a blush go here, a little higher,
a little lower, like actually blended, Like okay, do this facts.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Shout out to the teammates, Shout out to YouTube university.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm excited for you. This is everything that you deserve.
You're gonna look amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So thank you. Oh and then we have another Expishion
game on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
You do on the twenty six, and you know what
I could go?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
You could?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I could.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I am available Sunday. Me thinking through my schedule before
I commit, I think I can. I will get back
to you later this week. But I would love to
go if there's a ticket available.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well, I would love to see you there.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And it's like, oh and guess what's ready?
Speaker 4 (06:41):
My No, I'm scared.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
You say that for a real game.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Okay, So you want me like a real game.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Okay, So you're the first game I'm able to go
to that's like a on schedule game. I'll wear it
very perfect, perfect, okay, normal, normal clothes or maybe like
merch like you know.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I was gonna say, normal doesn't exist in your closet.
You always it's a fit regardless.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Appreciate you saying that, girl, But okay, the first official
game that I go to out were the custom fit.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Okay, I'm kind of scared. I'm excited for a little nervous.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
No worry, it's not gonna be too crazy. Would I
would not embarrass you, But yeah, I mean I think
that's it. I'm excited for our guests. We have a
special guest coming on highly anticipated we do.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I'm also excited Sue Bird will be joining us and
I can't wait to talk to her. I know that
you guys are gonna love this, and so are we
It's gonna be great. We have such an incredible guest today,
Sue Bird. Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So this is kind of a full circle moment because
what was that April when we're at the Deep Blue
Summit and you're on a panel together and we kind
of tease the pod a little bit. You asked me
I was gonna planning on having a podcast, and I
was like, you just gotta putt around and find out.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
And here we are.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I know, congrats.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
I don't want to start by asking you questions, but
how's it going you like in podcast life?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I am. I feel like I've gotten a little bit
more comfortable with each episode, So it's been it's been
a learning process.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Awesome. Love that for you.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
What are some similarities that you found between preparing for
Basstball and we're preparing for media?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Not that many.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
I mean, I guess like the definition of preparation is
the same, right, You're just like getting ready for something.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
It's tough to say. I would say.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
The thing I like about media, especially when it's live,
is once you're done playing, you know you're not going
to find out for a long time. But it's hard
to get your juices going right the way like a
game or like a championship game, Like it's hard to
get going in that way.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
But Live TV has like a little bit of that.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
So like when D and I do our show during
the Final four, it's like you get the nervous energy again.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
So I like, I like that part of it.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I'll never forget watching you guys what championship I forget
what game it was South Carolina was playing, but watching
you guys do that at the Final four, just the
chemistry you guys have, but just how much fun do
you guys have doing it. It's I feel like that's
how it should be. Every time people are talking and
like you're watching a game, it's just so fun to
(09:29):
listen to.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah, yeah, we have a good time. We have a
good time. You know, you never know what's going to
come out of D's mouth. Neither do I. That's the
fun of it.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You Know.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
What I think I like is every year it's kind
of taken on like a different iteration of itself. Like
the first year, we were making it up as we went.
We had those red Solo cups. Everyone was trying to
guess what was in it. We were having a good time,
and then last year we definitely went more into like
basketball conversations, like we were paying attention way more to
(10:00):
the game than we ever had previously, not just because
Yukon was in it.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
I promise, it was something we wanted to do.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
So it's been fun to kind of each year recreate
something that you're already doing.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, that's so cool. Okay, So recently we had coach
Oria on our podcast and there were a lot of
comments on social media after about how he joined our
pod before yours, and I was curious to know what
your response was to that, but also like why is
that Why hasn't.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
He joined your pod? Well, he hasn't been invited. Oh okay,
that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
So for the podcast, I do by myself bird's eye
view that right now is like only players. I think
eventually actually only like WNBA players, And I think eventually
I'll start to like branch out go the coaching route
college players maybe like that kind of a thing, But
right now it's just WNBA players. So he doesn't, you know,
(10:58):
the man never played. He doesn't fit as far as
it touch more goes. You know, Meghan and I talked
about it. We want to get CD on before we
get anybody on.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
CD keeps turning us down.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
No, she did say that the other day. She was like,
who wants to hear what I have to say? I
was like, CD everyone, but he doesn't want to hear
what you have to say.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Everybody, you know everything. We've been there for everything.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
She's also never when CD comes on, then maybe we'll
throw the invite out to coach.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm crying, Okay, you got to keep pushing. I'll keep like, yeah,
Connor for me, not that I hold any power over.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Nobody does. So.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
On the pod, uh, we asked you know a question
about an I L and it came up whether you
know you guys would leave. What do you think if
you if an IL existed when you played, do you
think you would have still stayed at Yukon?
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Like left early? I mean not in early, like each year. Yeah,
you can transmit to a different school. And I also
want to know your thoughts about if DT would have leaven.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
To Nah, I don't think we would have left. I
don't think we would have left. I'm a big believer.
Like when your team is good, all the money's coming,
all the accolades are coming. Everything's coming when your team
is good. So like whatever you might get if you
left to go on your own, I feel like if
you stay and you win, which obviously we know that
(12:29):
that my era, like we went out champions, like you're
just gonna get just as much. So I don't think
we would have left. But yeah, I mean, you know,
stores would have had to figure it out.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
They would have to come. It would have been sponsored
by like.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Deep Dough and tads, they would have had to figure
that out. Really funny, they have the fundraise. I basically
I basically kept Deep Dough afloat. Let's be honest, hand literally,
I've actually never had Deep Dough.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
You've never had Deep Dough.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
What's It's like a calzone spot, but they have like
I can't even like a ton of different cal zones,
and you know they deliver after midnight.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
So that is what it is.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
So when you were looking for colleges that you wanted
to go to, what other schools were you considering?
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Yeah, so the only two other schools that I visited
were Stanford and Vanderbilt.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Nice.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Yeah, I know, Vanderbilt feels like so random for people now,
but will give Shay a shout out.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
They're on the they're on the come up, they're coming back.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
So those were my my three final schools at the time.
You got to go way back.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Like I was a big fan of Jeneazy, so Stanford
to me was like, oh, this is where you go
to be like the best point guard, you know. So
that really stuck out, and I remember tar Vanderverer kind
of recruited me to be a point guard Vanderbilt. Interestingly enough,
Jim Foster was there, who's actually coach Yama's like one
of his close friends, possibly.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Even like a mentor.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
At one point they were kind of recruiting me to
be a two, which thinking about that now is like crazy,
but yeah, they were recruiting me to be a two.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
And then Ukom was kind of like you know how
they are. They're like, hey, this is who we are.
If you like it, cool, come on over.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
If not, all good, So they were playing hard to
get a little bit, and clearly I was attracted.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
To that the exact same way. I think that's so incredible,
the exact same way. If you come here great, If
you don't, I know, you look forward to meeting you.
People always ask about like what keeps them, what makes
them great?
Speaker 5 (14:35):
And I'm like the fact that they have literally been
the same for I don't even know how many years
they've been there, like thirty, forty years, this is, yeah,
this is forty two, forty one. Oh yeah, fortyeth was
last year. Forty one years, They've literally been the same.
It's it's really incredible that they haven't gotten and I
don't say this in a negative way, but that they
(14:56):
haven't gotten bored or like complacent.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Doing you know and being great and doing what works. Yeah,
it's impressive.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Coach reminds us all the time that he's like, well
now it's a it's a little bit different before it was.
Have you guys ever won No, I've won eleven, So like,
I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for you.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
I don't believe him when he says that. I'm like,
it's a little bit for you.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Come on, like you like it too. He does like
he was having fun. Yeah, he was having fun after
last year. Also, he wasn't just like, oh you guys
enjoy Nah, he's enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Do you remember your visit?
Speaker 4 (15:33):
How you of course, Oh, tell us about it, of course,
you know, there's not really much to tell, you know.
You you know, you have a host. Shay Ralf was
my host. Is that correct? I think that's correct.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
But you spend time with everybody, you're never you know,
because we kind of I'm sure you guys are the same.
You roll pretty tight, and so you're with the whole team.
They're taking you to some classes, like oh, this is
what your day would be like. You go to practice,
you watch him practice. I was there with I went
on my visit with this other player, Lindsay Amasaki and
(16:08):
then Asia Jones, so it was like the three of
us on our visit and I remember at the end
of it, you know, you go to coach's house. That's
the last stop, so your visit's over, and then you
go to his house for like whatever breakfast lunch before
you take off, and that's when he like takes you
into like a private room and he has his like
this is his final play. You know, he's like, all right,
(16:29):
this is it. Like we were saying, what do you think?
And I didn't commit on the spot. Some some players
fall into that. I didn't fall into that. I didn't
commit but when Asia and I were saying goodbye, she
was she kind of looked at me. She's like, I
think I'm coming here?
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Are you coming here? And I was like, yeah, I'm
probably coming here.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
That's funny. What is your favorite CD memory? Oh?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
God, CD memory? I don't know if I my favorite,
I can't tell you on camera. How sad is that?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Wait?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Actually want to change up? What's your favorite CD memory?
From being a player and to being an alum to
being alum man? My favorite ones are aren't She'll kill
me if I tell? Okay, our really approved favorite?
Speaker 5 (17:11):
Yeah, well, we definitely we played. This is like my
least favorite. We played in the pantyhose era. Everybody knows
about the pantyhose era. When you know a lot of
times we have to dress up when we go out
to dinner or when we travel or whatever the case,
and if you wore a skirt or a dress or
any kind of you know, leg revealing outfit, she forced us.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
To wear pantyhose.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
It was like a rule.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
So that's my least favorite memory. I know that rule
no longer exists. So you're welcome, because we must have.
Thank you, Thank you, pioneer anytime you went through it,
so I didn't have to yep, exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, so that's my least favorite.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
So, I mean, we all had like clear nail polish
on deck because there was no way these things weren't running,
you know, like that's like the hack if they run.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Okay, Actually I have heard that. I was what I said,
I don't even know what you're talking about, but I
have that before.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Man, I'm really dating myself here. God.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
My favorite, I think just like, oh, there was one
where let me think about a favorite guys, this is tough.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
They're all embarrassing for her. Let me think, let me think,
let me think.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
I don't know if I have any that aren't embarrassing,
she'll kill me. So I'm just gonna leave that panty hose.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah no, that's perfect because we got to keep her
and your good graces so she can come on your bad.
So exactly, did you guys have CD games?
Speaker 5 (18:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, yeah, oh so this has been going on for
like all forty one years.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Actually, you know, one of my favorite CD memories is
we were in the NCAA tournament. I want to say
we were in Pittsburgh. It was like a regional and
so this is actually one of my favorites. She did
a scavenger Hunt game that was honestly like so elite.
She gave us disposable cameras and we had to like
(18:56):
go around the city and get different pictures with different
It was like go find two people with a mullet.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
It was like all this we had to go.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
One of them was I'll never forget this because we
were walking distance to the arena. It was like, go
take a picture with someone from another team that like
we were about to play in the regional.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
It was like one of the like most legit elite
scavenger Hunt games I've ever played. And then basically we
got it all developed and we had to like put
it on this like map and then obviously you know whoever.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Got the most points. But yeah, oh she's been doing
games and like morning walks and all that.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah. Oh yeah, for forever, I'm gonna have to request
a fun scavenger hunt game that sounds like a good one.
It really was.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah, you had like teams of you know, two or
three people each, so it's a couple of teams and
you just like took over the city trying to find
like all this different stuff.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
It was really fun.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Wow, I'm so impressed. I don't have to talk about her.
Talk to her about this later.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
CDs games are legendary, like everyone talks.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
They truly like, I wish everyone could experience at least
one CD game.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
So that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
CD needs to take this on the road, you know,
after Yukon, whenever she's done, because I want to play. Okay,
So Sue, let's talk about your transition from Yukon into
the pros. What was some of the hardest lessons you
learned in transitioning from college to the WNBA.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, just the losing right away.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
You're losing way more than you ever lost in your
whole life, probably, and that's a learning lesson.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
I remember, I've told this story before.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
It's like we lost our very first game, and I'm
like coming to the locker room like mad.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
I'm like, what the fuck? You know all this stuff?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
So I'm coming to the locker room like pissed off,
not throwing shit, but like I'm mad, and I look
around and everybody else on my team is just like, yo,
where you want to go to dinner tonight, Like life
just moves on, and very quickly you realize you can't
get like crazy with the losses because there's just going
to be so many any of them, and if you
let them get to you, you'll never be able to
(21:03):
play the next game. So that was probably the biggest adjustment.
I felt like Yukon does get you ready, Like you're
going to be ready physically, you're going to be ready mentally.
Of course, there's different adjustments, like you know, everybody's older.
You're playing against like legit grown ass women now who
are old or smarter. They know how to like manipulate
(21:24):
you out there. So there's like adjustments there, but those
ones you just like figure out as you go. The
one that was really hard was the losing. The losing
was tough.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, I was gonna say, what advice do you have
for az as she's going to start beginning her transition
to the pros.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, enjoy this last season.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
You know, I feel like there's there are a couple
moments where it's cliche to say, like make sure you're
soaking it all in, but this is one of those
moments where you know it's your last right.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Sometimes we don't know what's going to happen. You know,
what's your last year.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
So I think you can definitely take a couple of
moments here and there and just kind of look around
and enjoy it all because it's interesting. Like I would say,
when I look back on college, it's some of the
best years of my life.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
So much fun. You don't have to worry about anything.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
I mean, you have to worry about school a little bit,
but you don't have to worry about anything else. But
like your teammates, basketball, your friends, you get to have fun.
It's really nothing like it. And at the same time,
once you become a pro, you don't really crave college
years because.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
You're a kid.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
You're now like an adult and there's something really exciting
about that. So I think for you and your adjustment,
just you don't have to don't think about it yet.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
It's going to come. It's going to come.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
You don't have to worry about it. You're already prepared
for it. You're going to be preparing for it this
whole year, so really just enjoy now.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That's definitely my main goal is to enjoy everything about
this year and my teammates, the coaches. Like you said,
there is stuff you need to worry about, but we
really truly aren't in a little bubble here and can't
take that for granted.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Yeah, it's nice. It's a nice life.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So sue back to your you know you're getting ready
to go play professionally, I think you were not If
you weren't the first you were one of the first
classes who were preparing to play in the w because it.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Was brand new.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
So what was that like?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And I want to know more about, like the mindset
before knowing that the w was an option versus when
the league.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Opened up.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
Yeah, so the WNBA started in my junior year of
high school, and so I think my class.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
You make a good point.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
My class was one of the first classes to choose
a college, like knowing that there was a WNBA, so
it's like, oh, what's going to help me get there?
So that definitely went intoto my thought process. But yeah,
prior to that, it was the Olympics, Like, it was
the national team, Like that's what you were dreaming about.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
I think I was.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
I already mentioned Jen a Z she was on that
ninety six Atlanta team. So if you rewind they did
like a full year long tour where they like, I mean,
they were all over the globe literally, but they did
a college tour. They played a bunch of college teams
and I went to one of the games. My AU
coach took me and a couple of my teammates and
I remember seeing gen Ez. So it's called like nineteen
(24:17):
ninety five. I'm like fourteen years old, and I remember
seeing gene Z being like, oh, we look alike.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Like this could be me, you know, and yeah, that
was my ce it be it.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
And there was no WNBA though, so I was just
kind of like, Okay, I want to get a college scholarship.
Yukon had just won the national championship in ninety five,
so they're all over TV.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
They're kind of on my map.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I'm starting to get recruit obviously, I'm being recruited in
this moment. I'm like early days of high school. So
I'm just like, I want to get a college scholarship.
And wow, the Olympics would be the ultimate dream because
even though I heard of players going overseas, like, no
fourteen year old is like I can't wait to get
to Europe. That's like none, none of that, so you're
(24:59):
just kind kind of like yeah, so you're just this
is what you're thinking about, this is what you're doing.
And then, like I said, sophomore junior or rolls around,
WNBA starts the ABL had started to but I don't
I don't.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Really remember watching it that much.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
I definitely remember watching the WNBA, and then that became
like the new thing, right, like the new dream, the
new goal. And there was definitely conversations when we were
in college, like Nikisha.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Sales, Rita Williams.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
They would come back to school a lot and like
terrorize us in practice, terrorize us.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
It was like a terror two man press. We couldn't
even get the ball over half court.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
But they would talk to us a lot about like
becoming a professional being in the WNBA, like what to expect,
and it was really helpful to have older players like
a lum to talk to.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Listen, you and DT go all and come back and
show Easy and her team what's up.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Oh gosh, that's so amazing. Though. I feel like that
just shows like the Yukon sisterhood, like how thing at
least for us, like having all of you guys. We
might not talk to all of you but we know
that we have you as a resource to talk to
and go to. You guys, I'll have or like have
lived our currently living our dream. So yeah, you'll see
when you get older too.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
It's like you're going to be so available for any
player that ever want to hit you up, and then
they'll never hit you up.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
And that's okay.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
That was literally made this summer I texted too, and
that I never circle by now any time.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
It's okay. I totally get it.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
I was the same way with old you know, like
only when they like shared, like share their wisdom, it's like, oh,
it's amazing, but I never you know, it's hard to
be like, hey, can you help me with this?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
So I totally get it.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I definitely will. I will text you at some point soon,
but I don't want to follow you. I don't want
to bother you.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You're not bothering me. You're not bothering me. I mean,
you're figuring it out on your own, too, but go
ahead trying.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
I'm gonna say, well, since I have you here now,
I might as well ask you a couple of questions. Well, first,
I feel like the thing that I'm focusing most on
right now, is as everyone knows, being a leader using
my voice. It doesn't come supernaturally to me. And there's
times where things won't be going well in practice and
(27:15):
I'm like, oh, like maybe we should huddle, and I'm like,
well what would I say? And I'm like, oh, maybe
I won't do it. How do I? Like, I just
need to rip the band aid off and do it,
Like I it's like something that's like holding me back.
So I guess I'm wondering did leading, I mean your
point guard, but did leading and using your voice being
both like did that come naturally to you? Or did
you have any you know, apprehensions at first, and if so,
(27:38):
how did you get over that? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
No, it did not come supernaturally to me.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
I think I was I'm kind of like an introvert extrovert,
like I got a little bit of both going and
I'm definitely the type where it takes me a second.
I like to like dip my toe in the water.
I'm not the type to jump in. Luckily, to be honest,
coach Aryama really helped me with that. He just kind
of I think he saw that I had these like
(28:04):
two personas or no, I'm sorry, I think he saw
that I was struggling to find my persona as a
leader on the court, so he knew who I was
off the court, and he was basically helping me. Or
what he did at the time was like develop these
two personas until they became one, so kind of like
bringing me out of my shell on the court, encouraging
me to do that, sometimes gently, sometimes not so gently
(28:27):
as he does, but I think that helped, like understanding
like Okay, I can kind of create something that is
me because sidebar, The biggest advice I can give you
in terms of being a leader is you have to
do it your way. It can't be you know, whatever
whoever you've played with that you would define as like
leaders you cannot copy, you cannot mimic. You can learn,
(28:49):
and you can maybe steal, but it has to be
authentic to you because there is nothing worse than when
a player like you know, calls a huddle and you're
like you, no, this isn't right, Like it doesn't feel right,
and you can sense it right when somebody's trying too hard.
So you don't want to be like a try hard
in terms of leadership. So if your leadership to be
(29:10):
honest is you know, kind of like the quiet moments
or leading by example.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
That's okay. But if you're on a team where maybe
you might need to do more, like you're the older.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Player now, the vet you're experienced, then you have to
try to see if you can pull pull yourself out
of your own shell to to develop this other persona.
And honestly, it's like anything, it's like you're intimidated at first,
and then you'd finally just like make yourself do it
and you're like, well, that wasn't even that bad, and
then it becomes with practice more natural. So you just
(29:42):
got to get over that first hump, because I promise
you it's not even it's not even that hard or
not even that bad, and it's going to become who
you are the more you do it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, and it'll be worth it. That's why I keep
trying to tell myself, is this temporary discomfort, like that'll go,
but it's going to be worth it in the long run.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Do you remember anything like while you're preparing for your
senior year, what you did, what your mindset was like.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
So I was really lucky because my junior year we
had an incredibly talented team Setlana Brusseimova che ral. For
the seniors, there are all Americans. My class obviously is juniors.
D's class is if they just finish their freshman year,
but we lose, we lose in the final four. So
going into my senior year, we had that motivation. I mean,
(30:28):
you know what it's like, right when you lose in
the final four, It's like that's all you're thinking about.
It's driving everything. So I feel like I was, like
I said, I feel like I was lucky because it
was my last year. We fucking lost in the in
the semifinals to Notre Dame, and that is just fueling everything.
So we were just like mission like revenge, redemption, I
(30:49):
in the prize. Nothing was going to get in the
way of that. And so I think there it's always
a challenge to go back to back. So I feel
like that's that's a little bit of a difference. But
I don't see why you can't channel some of that
energy because it is your final year.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
This is a new group.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
I think the biggest advice I could give you in
terms of trying to go back to back, and this
is someone who if you don't count Russia, I never
went back to back my whole career. I did in
Russia a couple times, but never in the US. So
the hardest part don't try to don't try to replicate
what you did the year before.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Don't be like, yo, guys, last year we did this
or last year was like that.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Nope, you got to like last year is last year
and everybody has to You have to like, you have
to form this year's identity.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
So you got to push last year to the side.
So that'll be my biggest advice.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Uh oh, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Okay, So, Sue, I want to know more about how
you balanced your private life and your public life.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
When did you notice, like fans.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Or people start to take an interest in what you
had going on off the court?
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Man, like immediately they're always interested, always trying to guess,
always trying, I mean easy you know about this, always
trying to figure it out, always trying to like, Oh,
you're wearing a T shirt?
Speaker 4 (32:08):
What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (32:11):
What is this?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
What does this shows jeans on today? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
So this was all through college and into I mean, so.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
I will say listen, obviously a little different. There was
no social media.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
When I was in college, there wasn't really even social media,
like probably like half my career there was no social media,
so it's it was the access was different, but but
people like came up to you more in person and
like would like just straight up ask questions, so like
that was happening. There's always like assumptions also, so people
(32:45):
are like always reading into stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
It's definitely a part of it. And I think the
management is, you know, just.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Understanding that and really you know, remembering once you like
put something out into the world, you can't get it back.
But also I think living again authentically bring up that
word again, like it is super important to being like
your full self, your full self as a person and
then since we're talking about basketball a little bit, your
(33:11):
full self as a player. Like I found that when
I was doing that. And by the way, I didn't
come out publicly. I was like out to everybody in
my life probably by the time I was twenty three,
so everybody in my life knew, I mean, friends, family, teammates,
the Storm organization. I had to come out to coach
and CD, so like that was I literally came out.
(33:33):
Well everybody not had to let me take that back.
It wasn't like I had to. I wanted to be like,
this is who I am, this is who I'm dating,
or this is who I am, and this is It
was important for me, but I didn't actually say it
publicly until I was like thirty seven years old.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Wow, I know, it's kind of a trip.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
And even at thirty seven, I noticed a difference by
saying it publicly, So there was something really rewarding about it.
But once you're out publicly, now you're inviting you and
more people to try to to you know, guess or
say shit or exactly. So you gotta just you can't listen.
You can't listen to those opinions. But yeah, once you
(34:11):
put something out there, you can't get it back either,
So you gotta That's to me, like the management. You
want to be yourself, but always with the understanding that
once it's out there, you can't get it back.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
So that's the juggle, that's the balance, that's the management.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Deciding what you keep for yourself and what you give
to the world.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
It's tough.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Now.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I'm like, is there something I wish I could take back? Nah,
I don't know. Megan and I are like, well, she
was so out.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
She was like, so gay, I was guilty by She's like,
I was gay adjacent, but she was gay gay?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
Oh my god, yeah she was gay? Yeah, gay adjacent?
What's that made me gay?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Okay, Sue, thank you for that. So a couple of
not random, but like off of basketball topics.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I want to know. So you broke your nose five times?
Which one hurt the most?
Speaker 4 (35:08):
Honestly all of them.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
I think the first one though, because it really I
knew immediately that it was broken, and so not only
did it hurt, You've been hitting the nose right.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
I mean, it's unavoidable.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Not only did it hurt, yeah, not only did it hurt,
I was like, oh my, I was like, oh no,
you know what I mean, like the reality of my
literally feeling my bone like off to the side, the
shock of that, the combination.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
So first one, for sure.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Do you have a favorite pass from your career?
Speaker 5 (35:44):
I think my favorite pass ever is probably the one
over my head. That one gets a lot of play,
gets a lot of love. I don't even know where
it came from, but I remember seeing like my teammates
reactions and that was probably the best part.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Iconic.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
Yeahine, iconic and now Marine Johannes is just like doing
it all over the place.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
That's make it up easy.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Fuck.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Okay, So now it is time for fun and games.
So leave a couple get fun games lined up. The
first one, we're gonna have you draft your dream Yukon team.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Oh you're trying to get me, trying to get me
to go viral. You see how this works? My my,
what do you mean by dream? Just like what I
think is the best.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
I guess you can take it. However, because I have
two answers. I have two answers like coach gave his
team to win, or like what is the team to win?
Or is the team to have fun?
Speaker 5 (36:43):
I would go like, I mean, this could be both.
This could be both. These teams are fun and both
these teams could win. I'm just gonna give it to you.
So I do think if I had to ride or
die just like one time, you're throwing us out there
one time, and I got to pick four others, I'm
going with my senior year, so me swin to meet
Asia Diana, Like hard to argue that starting five, But
(37:04):
I think if I had to go like all time
great and you know usually I don't like picking myself,
but I'll pick myself. I'll pick Diana Maya Stewie and
Tina Charles, and I think that would be probably both
fun and really difficult to be. Yeah, I feel like
you can't go wrong with who's yours, just like all
the players you played with.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I mean, if I'm gonna pick a team, I'm gonna
pick yeah, like I'm gonna ride with my dogs. But
like I said, you can't go wrong with any any
you kind of love ever.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Okay. So so for the next game, we're gonna play
fun or done.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
We are going to rank some draft outfits, some outfits
throughout the years, Okay, okay, And for the listeners, we'll
do our best to describe. But make sure y'all check
us out on YouTube to see the pictures. All right,
So that's the first one.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Do you want me to describe it? Well, you get
to decide whether this is a fun or so meaning
like fud as a draft day.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
This is draft day. This is a fud.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Okay, fire, I.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
Agree, all draft pictures, all draft pictures by default, are fudds, okay,
because it's like even when they're bad, they're good.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
We love a business casual, ready for work.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Oh this is I always say, this is a The
top and the pants are from Express. She got I
did have I did have a jat a blazer like
a suit. It matched the pants and you know, in
a last second decision, right before my name was called,
I decided to get rid of it. And I feel
like it's the best thing that could have happened. I
really would have been like straight up business casual.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
So this gave it. I leaned a little more cash,
which I think helped help this stay a fud and
not become a Dutch.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
I think he's still cute.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Yeah, my toes are out. Listen, my toes are out.
We got some Steve maddens on.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Tiffany in a sleeveless gray and white or is that
black and white stripes kind of vibe.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Yeah, it had like it was a stretchy material.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
It's like it looks comfy.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Yes, yeah, and shout out to that to the chair.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Okay, all that chair is given chair? What else from
a Kia? Oh?
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Probably this is?
Speaker 5 (39:16):
This is This is literally right after I got drafted. Okay,
you gotta take all your little portrait pics.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Oh it was a fud.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Why describe.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I could wear that now to jump.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
So I could wear this now, maybe without the necklace
and maybe those are actually shorts.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Oh they're not connected, Brice, I got zoom.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah, I could pull this off now twenty fourteen.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
That's not so bad.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
Where does this outfit from? God, it might be from
like Max Maara or like BCBG or like something like that.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
If I had to guess.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
So it's shorts and a top, a black and white top.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
And I think it was connected. I think it's like
one like a jump yeah, like a jumper romper situation.
But it was shorts.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
It did look like a skirt or a dress, but
it's shorts, okay. And I think D still has that blazer.
I think D still rocks that blazer.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I'm crying. Necklace and all greatlace.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Oh that's a deep V.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Deep's a deep showing the necklaces.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
The necklaces are legit and and credit to Andrew Bernstein.
Andy Bernstein, he is a great photographer. I've known him
like almost my entire playing career. So shout out to Andy.
He took a good flick.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Okay, Andy, all right, this next one.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Whoa, this is a dud? Okay, this is a dud.
I don't even know like what's happening some times.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Look how little you are, how young you are.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
I feel like, yeah, the word to describe so many
of these is just cute, Like yes, so cute.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah, she has this. I don't even know how to
describe this material. What's this, sue?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
It's like I don't know, like a lacey Okay, you
give me a little sexy business.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You better go ahead that buckle.
Speaker 5 (41:23):
Buckles are coming back. My favorite thing is when I
see I'm just gonna love this.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Sorry, guys, blue jeans with a lacy white top, okay.
Speaker 5 (41:32):
And what like does that necklace act as a shield? Also,
just like take it off and what is going on?
So this is yeah, we've entered dud category.
Speaker 4 (41:45):
This is a dud.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
But I was just gonna say, I love how I'm
seeing like styles from kind of like this. If I
have to guess, is like early two thousands are starting
to come back. I see a lot about buckles these days.
I'm just saying, not that nucklace.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Snow here we go?
Speaker 4 (42:03):
Oh girl, how do you feel about this?
Speaker 1 (42:07):
This was?
Speaker 4 (42:09):
You know, I have a really I have like one
of those memories I don't forget anything. This was like
a shoot.
Speaker 5 (42:14):
These aren't my clothes. I was putting these clothes, okay,
which is fine. It's you know, basic black and white striped.
Probably the same jeans as the picture before. They're giving
blue jeans.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
You some shoes.
Speaker 5 (42:31):
I can't see the shoes. I can't see. Oh, those
are Nikes. I think this was a Nike shoot. So
those are some air Force ones. The shoes were usually
on point.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Is yes, if you zoom to the top, yeah, this
was this is back in the day.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
You know, those are air Force And if you zoom
up on the top, there's like a little Nike check
on the top. Right.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
Yeah, the shirt's Nike.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yes, I was.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
I was doing listen. I was just like doing my contract.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
But seriously fudded up for that, Like, would you put
that on?
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Yo? The Air Force ones? Yes, this is a fun
This is a fun Yes, I would have it on now,
per se.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
The shirt given Beetle juice.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Uh, Beetle Juice is classic, So it's classic, yo.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
The things this is what I had to do to
get a gold medal. This is what I had to
do to get a gold medal. I didn't have a
say I said, are you serious? This was for the
London Olympics.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Do you have the one where I have the hat on?
Speaker 5 (43:39):
Oh, you know, there's one where I have the whole
hat on. I'm like, you know, I forget the names
of those soldiers.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
But okay, so we represent heavy.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yes, it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
The coat looks heavy, you know, and I'm like, the
scarf is you know, listen the coat. Wait, what are
the names of these soldiers. It's just the King's Guard.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Oh, the King's Guard.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
Yeah, they like guard the palaces. Oh, I like outside
of Buckingham Palace. Yeah, so they're like the King's Guard
outside of Buckingham Palace. You do these these photo shoots
when you're headed to the Olympics where they just have
you to do a bunch of different stuff. And so
this was before the London Olympics. They had us all
put this coat on and then you know, they had
to let let everybody know I was still American, so
(44:21):
they put this scarf on me. I don't know, it's
just this is listen, it's a fud because it's funny
buds and for funny in this Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (44:36):
My pictures through the years are so ridiculous and so
funny and so tragic, and yet it would have been
worse if there were camera phones, so I can't even complain.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
If social media, it would have been worse.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
But it's okay because thoule now fire and you get
to pick what you want to wear and you don't
have to do this again.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
And some of us coming back, like you said, so.
Speaker 5 (45:02):
I should have kept friends, except apparently that that striped
Nike shirt. You guys are saying that one's out.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, So the last little thing is gonna be
quick one two. Happy belated birthday.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
From me asy and foot around the foot around, find
out pod quick story. We share a friend. Her name
is Alex Taylor.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
She does Hoop York City, which is a woman's collective
and it's it was started to have give women a
safe place to play where it's just all women. It's
been around since twenty eighteen. And you guys have you know,
developed a friendship. I don't know if you remember the
conversation you had with Alex at Deep Blue launch party,
but she had this shirt originally and the woman on
(46:02):
it was just, in your words, a bootleg coop YC
logo but now it's you. Happy birthday. It's you and
we all have one and you are going to have
one delivered to your house. So happy birthday and we
love you.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
Oh that is so sweet, yo. I just wore that
the other.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Day and now you've got to give you an updated
one and it's going to be me yes, because the
advice you gave was, you know, give a real athlete
on there, and what better athlete than you?
Speaker 5 (46:36):
So we love that.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
Thank you guys so much, and obviously shout out to Alex.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Thank you so much for listening and tuning in to
today's podcast. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to
futt Around and find Out wherever you get your podcasts,
and we'll see you.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Guys next week.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Futt Around and find Out is a production of iHeart
Women's Sports and Unanimous Media. Executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Eric Peyton, Charlotte Sumter Brugette, and Stephen Curry. Co executive
producer is Kleana Maria Cutney. Producers are Mike Coscarelli and
co producers are Kurt Redmand, Maya Howard, and Jacquelin Schoeninger.
This podcast is edited by Mike Costcarelli and hosted by
(47:14):
me Azy Fudd and a Shawnty Plummer
Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of fut Around
and find out. I'm here with my girl a shanty Ashanti.
What's up, hey.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Girl, Nothing, just enjoying life as you usually. I actually
got to see your first game, so I was super
excited about that. We went up to the mohegan Son,
I got to hang out with your family, and I
got to watch you play hit five threes in seven minutes.
But and yet ultimately you call one and I was
(00:31):
just I had a great time.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
So thank you for that, And how did it feel?
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Thanks for coming. It was a lot of fun. I mean,
it wasn't the prettiest. It was our first, our first
game against you know, a real team, but it was
a lot of fun. I thought it was a great
I don't know, I mean, it was also kind of
weird starting so early. You usually don't have like our
scrimmage until this week, and it's closed, there's no fans,
(00:55):
so to be out there the first time playing against
someone in front of a big crowd, it was a
little different. But it was definitely fun, definitely a good
learning experience for all of us. I enjoyed it, and
it was so nice to see you, to see my family.
I see my brother and some other family friends. But
I'm curious for you, what was the experience like for
you Sitting with my family, Yo, they seemed like a
(01:15):
little a little more team that game. Plus my grandparents
weren't there.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
You know what, I will say, it definitely did give
a little bit more tame based on, like, you know,
the things that we've talked about. But it was so
much fun. So first of all, I want to say,
your fan base is amazing. I was waiting online, waiting
on the door to open, and a couple of people
came up and they were telling me how they love
you and they loved the podcast, and I was just like,
(01:41):
you have like the best fans in They're so so sweet.
And then so now I'm waiting in the front of
line with your family and we're like laughing and joking
and people love them too, so that was like it
was crazy. And then we get there and we're like,
of course cheering for you and talking and interacting with
the other Yukon parents, and then I ended up actually
staying at the cottage, so that was like the whole
(02:04):
experience was amazing.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Your parents super dope, their friends.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I was like, I was blown away by their hospitality
and like, I don't know, I can't.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I couldn't ask for a better first game experience.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
That was the first time I've got to like watch
you as I know you and in person, and so
overall ten out of ten I loved every second of
it and I was laughing the whole time. So your
family is crazy and a lot of.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Fun they are.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Then just wait until you go to a real game,
a gamble game, and my grandparents are here, Pop is there.
Everything gets raised a couple of notches.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Well, I definitely will be at a couple games this season,
so I'm looking forward to the experience.
Speaker 4 (02:45):
I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
So you have a media day coming up in New
York City. I saw on I think like Yukon or
someone released it where it said you and Sarah Strong
are going to represent Yukon Dot at Masson Square Garden.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yes, I actually have a pretty busy week coming up.
But first on the list is biggest mediaday in New York.
This will be which actually crazy to think. I think
I've been to all of them, so it's been my
fifth one. Sarah and I are going down with Coach Gon.
Have a nice fun car ride together. Hopefully get some
some sort of good food before you leave.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, definitely, ort girl, you know me, you get you
some Oh we eaty healthy because you know my first
now I'll say, is pizza.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I know my tummy's gonna hurt.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
No, no, no, don't switch off.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
And I'm wearing a dress in a few days, so
I'm like, you know, I can't be bloated if I'm
about to put a tight dress on.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
So that's fair, that's fair. I'm excited for you to
be down in New York. I think if you're gonna
eat food, stick to healthy. There's still some good healthy stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
There's a lot of good healthy options. There's a lot
of good options period in New York.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Thank you. I like to say so myself.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I'll let you know what I eat, Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
Let me know how the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I wish I could go support, but I'm supporting from
Afar always.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
You're like, don't go, don't go. No, I got you.
And then you have what is it called on the
twenty third, Yeah, when.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
We have our championship dinner. So we have dinner. I
think there'll be some donors, some other people and all
my parents are going nice, and I believe they'll be
like a couple of panels. I know I'm doing a panel.
I think Sarah will be on a panel, maybe with me. Actually,
I know Page will beyond one, Coach will beyond one,
and then we get to see our rings or we
get to have our rings, but this will be our
(04:37):
first time seeing them in person. We got to help
Dupper clock or the seniors help design them, but that
was months ago, so I honestly kind of forget what
we what we picked out. So I'm so excited to
see them. I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I'm excited for you. That's amazing and you guys earned it,
so good stuff. I'm like, it's gonna be I'm so excit.
I'll have to call you after to show you. Absolutely,
please FaceTime me. I want to be blinded. I actually
want to tell you first, to show you my fit.
It's not like, yeah, it's not it's nothing like crazy
or special. But it is a dress.
Speaker 3 (05:15):
Oh yes, is it pink?
Speaker 1 (05:18):
It's like the only colored dress I have my closets,
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
As you should. But yes, I want to see no fit.
I want to see the shoes.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I want to know the look you're going with I'm
tapped in, I'm invested.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Okay perfect. I might even do my makeup myself that night.
If we decide to get crazy, please.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Just FaceTime me. Just put me on the side.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I'm gonna look nothing like your makeup. I need a
lesson from you on how to do makeup.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
I learned on YouTube. YouTube.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That's how I'm learning. YouTube and teammates.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
YouTube and teammates. You know, you always have the girls
who are always pening the makeup on before the game.
I used to just watch is it just be like hmm,
can you do that to me?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Please?
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So I'm like right next to Jan and I'm like,
Janna helps like this a blush go here, a little higher,
a little lower, like actually blended, Like okay, do this facts.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Shout out to the teammates, Shout out to YouTube university.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I'm excited for you. This is everything that you deserve.
You're gonna look amazing.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
So thank you. Oh and then we have another Expishion
game on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
You do on the twenty six, and you know what
I could go?
Speaker 1 (06:20):
You could?
Speaker 3 (06:20):
I could.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
I am available Sunday. Me thinking through my schedule before
I commit, I think I can. I will get back
to you later this week. But I would love to
go if there's a ticket available.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well, I would love to see you there.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And it's like, oh and guess what's ready?
Speaker 4 (06:41):
My No, I'm scared.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
You say that for a real game.
Speaker 4 (06:46):
Okay, So you want me like a real game.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Okay, So you're the first game I'm able to go
to that's like a on schedule game. I'll wear it
very perfect, perfect, okay, normal, normal clothes or maybe like
merch like you know.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I was gonna say, normal doesn't exist in your closet.
You always it's a fit regardless.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
Appreciate you saying that, girl, But okay, the first official
game that I go to out were the custom fit.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Okay, I'm kind of scared. I'm excited for a little nervous.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
No worry, it's not gonna be too crazy. Would I
would not embarrass you, But yeah, I mean I think
that's it. I'm excited for our guests. We have a
special guest coming on highly anticipated we do.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
I'm also excited Sue Bird will be joining us and
I can't wait to talk to her. I know that
you guys are gonna love this, and so are we
It's gonna be great. We have such an incredible guest today,
Sue Bird. Welcome to the pod.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So this is kind of a full circle moment because
what was that April when we're at the Deep Blue
Summit and you're on a panel together and we kind
of tease the pod a little bit. You asked me
I was gonna planning on having a podcast, and I
was like, you just gotta putt around and find out.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
And here we are.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
I know, congrats.
Speaker 5 (08:12):
I don't want to start by asking you questions, but
how's it going you like in podcast life?
Speaker 1 (08:16):
I am. I feel like I've gotten a little bit
more comfortable with each episode, So it's been it's been
a learning process.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Awesome. Love that for you.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
What are some similarities that you found between preparing for
Basstball and we're preparing for media?
Speaker 4 (08:30):
Not that many.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
I mean, I guess like the definition of preparation is
the same, right, You're just like getting ready for something.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
It's tough to say. I would say.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
The thing I like about media, especially when it's live,
is once you're done playing, you know you're not going
to find out for a long time. But it's hard
to get your juices going right the way like a
game or like a championship game, Like it's hard to
get going in that way.
Speaker 4 (08:57):
But Live TV has like a little bit of that.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
So like when D and I do our show during
the Final four, it's like you get the nervous energy again.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
So I like, I like that part of it.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I'll never forget watching you guys what championship I forget
what game it was South Carolina was playing, but watching
you guys do that at the Final four, just the
chemistry you guys have, but just how much fun do
you guys have doing it. It's I feel like that's
how it should be. Every time people are talking and
like you're watching a game, it's just so fun to
(09:29):
listen to.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
Yeah, yeah, we have a good time. We have a
good time. You know, you never know what's going to
come out of D's mouth. Neither do I. That's the
fun of it.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
You Know.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
What I think I like is every year it's kind
of taken on like a different iteration of itself. Like
the first year, we were making it up as we went.
We had those red Solo cups. Everyone was trying to
guess what was in it. We were having a good time,
and then last year we definitely went more into like
basketball conversations, like we were paying attention way more to
(10:00):
the game than we ever had previously, not just because
Yukon was in it.
Speaker 4 (10:03):
I promise, it was something we wanted to do.
Speaker 5 (10:06):
So it's been fun to kind of each year recreate
something that you're already doing.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah, that's so cool. Okay, So recently we had coach
Oria on our podcast and there were a lot of
comments on social media after about how he joined our
pod before yours, and I was curious to know what
your response was to that, but also like why is
that Why hasn't.
Speaker 4 (10:27):
He joined your pod? Well, he hasn't been invited. Oh okay,
that makes sense.
Speaker 5 (10:37):
So for the podcast, I do by myself bird's eye
view that right now is like only players. I think
eventually actually only like WNBA players, And I think eventually
I'll start to like branch out go the coaching route
college players maybe like that kind of a thing, But
right now it's just WNBA players. So he doesn't, you know,
(10:58):
the man never played. He doesn't fit as far as
it touch more goes. You know, Meghan and I talked
about it. We want to get CD on before we
get anybody on.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
CD keeps turning us down.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
No, she did say that the other day. She was like,
who wants to hear what I have to say? I
was like, CD everyone, but he doesn't want to hear
what you have to say.
Speaker 4 (11:21):
Everybody, you know everything. We've been there for everything.
Speaker 5 (11:24):
She's also never when CD comes on, then maybe we'll
throw the invite out to coach.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
I'm crying, Okay, you got to keep pushing. I'll keep like, yeah,
Connor for me, not that I hold any power over.
Speaker 4 (11:40):
Nobody does. So.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
On the pod, uh, we asked you know a question
about an I L and it came up whether you
know you guys would leave. What do you think if
you if an IL existed when you played, do you
think you would have still stayed at Yukon?
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Oh my god?
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Like left early? I mean not in early, like each year. Yeah,
you can transmit to a different school. And I also
want to know your thoughts about if DT would have leaven.
Speaker 5 (12:07):
To Nah, I don't think we would have left. I
don't think we would have left. I'm a big believer.
Like when your team is good, all the money's coming,
all the accolades are coming. Everything's coming when your team
is good. So like whatever you might get if you
left to go on your own, I feel like if
you stay and you win, which obviously we know that
(12:29):
that my era, like we went out champions, like you're
just gonna get just as much. So I don't think
we would have left. But yeah, I mean, you know,
stores would have had to figure it out.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
They would have to come. It would have been sponsored
by like.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
Deep Dough and tads, they would have had to figure
that out. Really funny, they have the fundraise. I basically
I basically kept Deep Dough afloat. Let's be honest, hand literally,
I've actually never had Deep Dough.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
You've never had Deep Dough.
Speaker 5 (12:59):
What's It's like a calzone spot, but they have like
I can't even like a ton of different cal zones,
and you know they deliver after midnight.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
So that is what it is.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
So when you were looking for colleges that you wanted
to go to, what other schools were you considering?
Speaker 5 (13:22):
Yeah, so the only two other schools that I visited
were Stanford and Vanderbilt.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Nice.
Speaker 5 (13:30):
Yeah, I know, Vanderbilt feels like so random for people now,
but will give Shay a shout out.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
They're on the they're on the come up, they're coming back.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
So those were my my three final schools at the time.
You got to go way back.
Speaker 5 (13:41):
Like I was a big fan of Jeneazy, so Stanford
to me was like, oh, this is where you go
to be like the best point guard, you know. So
that really stuck out, and I remember tar Vanderverer kind
of recruited me to be a point guard Vanderbilt. Interestingly enough,
Jim Foster was there, who's actually coach Yama's like one
of his close friends, possibly.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
Even like a mentor.
Speaker 5 (14:02):
At one point they were kind of recruiting me to
be a two, which thinking about that now is like crazy,
but yeah, they were recruiting me to be a two.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
And then Ukom was kind of like you know how
they are. They're like, hey, this is who we are.
If you like it, cool, come on over.
Speaker 5 (14:17):
If not, all good, So they were playing hard to
get a little bit, and clearly I was attracted.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
To that the exact same way. I think that's so incredible,
the exact same way. If you come here great, If
you don't, I know, you look forward to meeting you.
People always ask about like what keeps them, what makes
them great?
Speaker 5 (14:35):
And I'm like the fact that they have literally been
the same for I don't even know how many years
they've been there, like thirty, forty years, this is, yeah,
this is forty two, forty one. Oh yeah, fortyeth was
last year. Forty one years, They've literally been the same.
It's it's really incredible that they haven't gotten and I
don't say this in a negative way, but that they
(14:56):
haven't gotten bored or like complacent.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Doing you know and being great and doing what works. Yeah,
it's impressive.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Coach reminds us all the time that he's like, well
now it's a it's a little bit different before it was.
Have you guys ever won No, I've won eleven, So like,
I'm not doing this for me, I'm doing this for you.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
I don't believe him when he says that. I'm like,
it's a little bit for you.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
Come on, like you like it too. He does like
he was having fun. Yeah, he was having fun after
last year. Also, he wasn't just like, oh you guys
enjoy Nah, he's enjoying it.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Do you remember your visit?
Speaker 4 (15:33):
How you of course, Oh, tell us about it, of course,
you know, there's not really much to tell, you know.
You you know, you have a host. Shay Ralf was
my host. Is that correct? I think that's correct.
Speaker 5 (15:47):
But you spend time with everybody, you're never you know,
because we kind of I'm sure you guys are the same.
You roll pretty tight, and so you're with the whole team.
They're taking you to some classes, like oh, this is
what your day would be like. You go to practice,
you watch him practice. I was there with I went
on my visit with this other player, Lindsay Amasaki and
(16:08):
then Asia Jones, so it was like the three of
us on our visit and I remember at the end
of it, you know, you go to coach's house. That's
the last stop, so your visit's over, and then you
go to his house for like whatever breakfast lunch before
you take off, and that's when he like takes you
into like a private room and he has his like
this is his final play. You know, he's like, all right,
(16:29):
this is it. Like we were saying, what do you think?
And I didn't commit on the spot. Some some players
fall into that. I didn't fall into that. I didn't
commit but when Asia and I were saying goodbye, she
was she kind of looked at me. She's like, I
think I'm coming here?
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Are you coming here? And I was like, yeah, I'm
probably coming here.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
That's funny. What is your favorite CD memory? Oh?
Speaker 4 (16:49):
God, CD memory? I don't know if I my favorite,
I can't tell you on camera. How sad is that?
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Wait?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Actually want to change up? What's your favorite CD memory?
From being a player and to being an alum to
being alum man? My favorite ones are aren't She'll kill
me if I tell? Okay, our really approved favorite?
Speaker 5 (17:11):
Yeah, well, we definitely we played. This is like my
least favorite. We played in the pantyhose era. Everybody knows
about the pantyhose era. When you know a lot of
times we have to dress up when we go out
to dinner or when we travel or whatever the case,
and if you wore a skirt or a dress or
any kind of you know, leg revealing outfit, she forced us.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
To wear pantyhose.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
It was like a rule.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
So that's my least favorite memory. I know that rule
no longer exists. So you're welcome, because we must have.
Thank you, Thank you, pioneer anytime you went through it,
so I didn't have to yep, exactly.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Yeah, so that's my least favorite.
Speaker 5 (17:46):
So, I mean, we all had like clear nail polish
on deck because there was no way these things weren't running,
you know, like that's like the hack if they run.
Speaker 1 (17:54):
Okay, Actually I have heard that. I was what I said,
I don't even know what you're talking about, but I
have that before.
Speaker 4 (18:00):
Man, I'm really dating myself here. God.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
My favorite, I think just like, oh, there was one
where let me think about a favorite guys, this is tough.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
They're all embarrassing for her. Let me think, let me think,
let me think.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
I don't know if I have any that aren't embarrassing,
she'll kill me. So I'm just gonna leave that panty hose.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah no, that's perfect because we got to keep her
and your good graces so she can come on your bad.
So exactly, did you guys have CD games?
Speaker 5 (18:29):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Yeah, yeah, oh so this has been going on for
like all forty one years.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
Oh for sure.
Speaker 5 (18:34):
Actually, you know, one of my favorite CD memories is
we were in the NCAA tournament. I want to say
we were in Pittsburgh. It was like a regional and
so this is actually one of my favorites. She did
a scavenger Hunt game that was honestly like so elite.
She gave us disposable cameras and we had to like
(18:56):
go around the city and get different pictures with different
It was like go find two people with a mullet.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
It was like all this we had to go.
Speaker 5 (19:03):
One of them was I'll never forget this because we
were walking distance to the arena. It was like, go
take a picture with someone from another team that like
we were about to play in the regional.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
It was like one of the like most legit elite
scavenger Hunt games I've ever played. And then basically we
got it all developed and we had to like put
it on this like map and then obviously you know whoever.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Got the most points. But yeah, oh she's been doing
games and like morning walks and all that.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah. Oh yeah, for forever, I'm gonna have to request
a fun scavenger hunt game that sounds like a good one.
It really was.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
Yeah, you had like teams of you know, two or
three people each, so it's a couple of teams and
you just like took over the city trying to find
like all this different stuff.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
It was really fun.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Wow, I'm so impressed. I don't have to talk about her.
Talk to her about this later.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
CDs games are legendary, like everyone talks.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
They truly like, I wish everyone could experience at least
one CD game.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
So that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
CD needs to take this on the road, you know,
after Yukon, whenever she's done, because I want to play. Okay,
So Sue, let's talk about your transition from Yukon into
the pros. What was some of the hardest lessons you
learned in transitioning from college to the WNBA.
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, just the losing right away.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
You're losing way more than you ever lost in your
whole life, probably, and that's a learning lesson.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
I remember, I've told this story before.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
It's like we lost our very first game, and I'm
like coming to the locker room like mad.
Speaker 4 (20:39):
I'm like, what the fuck? You know all this stuff?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
So I'm coming to the locker room like pissed off,
not throwing shit, but like I'm mad, and I look
around and everybody else on my team is just like, yo,
where you want to go to dinner tonight, Like life
just moves on, and very quickly you realize you can't
get like crazy with the losses because there's just going
to be so many any of them, and if you
let them get to you, you'll never be able to
(21:03):
play the next game. So that was probably the biggest adjustment.
I felt like Yukon does get you ready, Like you're
going to be ready physically, you're going to be ready mentally.
Of course, there's different adjustments, like you know, everybody's older.
You're playing against like legit grown ass women now who
are old or smarter. They know how to like manipulate
(21:24):
you out there. So there's like adjustments there, but those
ones you just like figure out as you go. The
one that was really hard was the losing. The losing
was tough.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Yeah, I was gonna say, what advice do you have
for az as she's going to start beginning her transition
to the pros.
Speaker 4 (21:41):
Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, enjoy this last season.
Speaker 5 (21:44):
You know, I feel like there's there are a couple
moments where it's cliche to say, like make sure you're
soaking it all in, but this is one of those
moments where you know it's your last right.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
Sometimes we don't know what's going to happen. You know,
what's your last year.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
So I think you can definitely take a couple of
moments here and there and just kind of look around
and enjoy it all because it's interesting. Like I would say,
when I look back on college, it's some of the
best years of my life.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
So much fun. You don't have to worry about anything.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
I mean, you have to worry about school a little bit,
but you don't have to worry about anything else. But
like your teammates, basketball, your friends, you get to have fun.
It's really nothing like it. And at the same time,
once you become a pro, you don't really crave college
years because.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
You're a kid.
Speaker 5 (22:28):
You're now like an adult and there's something really exciting
about that. So I think for you and your adjustment,
just you don't have to don't think about it yet.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
It's going to come. It's going to come.
Speaker 5 (22:37):
You don't have to worry about it. You're already prepared
for it. You're going to be preparing for it this
whole year, so really just enjoy now.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
That's definitely my main goal is to enjoy everything about
this year and my teammates, the coaches. Like you said,
there is stuff you need to worry about, but we
really truly aren't in a little bubble here and can't
take that for granted.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
Yeah, it's nice. It's a nice life.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
So sue back to your you know you're getting ready
to go play professionally, I think you were not If
you weren't the first you were one of the first
classes who were preparing to play in the w because it.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Was brand new.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
So what was that like?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
And I want to know more about, like the mindset
before knowing that the w was an option versus when
the league.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Opened up.
Speaker 5 (23:22):
Yeah, so the WNBA started in my junior year of
high school, and so I think my class.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
You make a good point.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
My class was one of the first classes to choose
a college, like knowing that there was a WNBA, so
it's like, oh, what's going to help me get there?
So that definitely went intoto my thought process. But yeah,
prior to that, it was the Olympics, Like, it was
the national team, Like that's what you were dreaming about.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
I think I was.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
I already mentioned Jen a Z she was on that
ninety six Atlanta team. So if you rewind they did
like a full year long tour where they like, I mean,
they were all over the globe literally, but they did
a college tour. They played a bunch of college teams
and I went to one of the games. My AU
coach took me and a couple of my teammates and
I remember seeing gen Ez. So it's called like nineteen
(24:17):
ninety five. I'm like fourteen years old, and I remember
seeing gene Z being like, oh, we look alike.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Like this could be me, you know, and yeah, that
was my ce it be it.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
And there was no WNBA though, so I was just
kind of like, Okay, I want to get a college scholarship.
Yukon had just won the national championship in ninety five,
so they're all over TV.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
They're kind of on my map.
Speaker 5 (24:39):
I'm starting to get recruit obviously, I'm being recruited in
this moment. I'm like early days of high school. So
I'm just like, I want to get a college scholarship.
And wow, the Olympics would be the ultimate dream because
even though I heard of players going overseas, like, no
fourteen year old is like I can't wait to get
to Europe. That's like none, none of that, so you're
(24:59):
just kind kind of like yeah, so you're just this
is what you're thinking about, this is what you're doing.
And then, like I said, sophomore junior or rolls around,
WNBA starts the ABL had started to but I don't
I don't.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
Really remember watching it that much.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
I definitely remember watching the WNBA, and then that became
like the new thing, right, like the new dream, the
new goal. And there was definitely conversations when we were
in college, like Nikisha.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
Sales, Rita Williams.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
They would come back to school a lot and like
terrorize us in practice, terrorize us.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
It was like a terror two man press. We couldn't
even get the ball over half court.
Speaker 5 (25:37):
But they would talk to us a lot about like
becoming a professional being in the WNBA, like what to expect,
and it was really helpful to have older players like
a lum to talk to.
Speaker 3 (25:48):
Listen, you and DT go all and come back and
show Easy and her team what's up.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Oh gosh, that's so amazing. Though. I feel like that
just shows like the Yukon sisterhood, like how thing at
least for us, like having all of you guys. We
might not talk to all of you but we know
that we have you as a resource to talk to
and go to. You guys, I'll have or like have
lived our currently living our dream. So yeah, you'll see
when you get older too.
Speaker 5 (26:13):
It's like you're going to be so available for any
player that ever want to hit you up, and then
they'll never hit you up.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
And that's okay.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
That was literally made this summer I texted too, and
that I never circle by now any time.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
It's okay. I totally get it.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
I was the same way with old you know, like
only when they like shared, like share their wisdom, it's like, oh,
it's amazing, but I never you know, it's hard to
be like, hey, can you help me with this?
Speaker 4 (26:38):
So I totally get it.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I definitely will. I will text you at some point soon,
but I don't want to follow you. I don't want
to bother you.
Speaker 4 (26:46):
You're not bothering me. You're not bothering me. I mean,
you're figuring it out on your own, too, but go
ahead trying.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
I'm gonna say, well, since I have you here now,
I might as well ask you a couple of questions. Well, first,
I feel like the thing that I'm focusing most on
right now, is as everyone knows, being a leader using
my voice. It doesn't come supernaturally to me. And there's
times where things won't be going well in practice and
(27:15):
I'm like, oh, like maybe we should huddle, and I'm like,
well what would I say? And I'm like, oh, maybe
I won't do it. How do I? Like, I just
need to rip the band aid off and do it,
Like I it's like something that's like holding me back.
So I guess I'm wondering did leading, I mean your
point guard, but did leading and using your voice being
both like did that come naturally to you? Or did
you have any you know, apprehensions at first, and if so,
(27:38):
how did you get over that? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:41):
No, it did not come supernaturally to me.
Speaker 5 (27:44):
I think I was I'm kind of like an introvert extrovert,
like I got a little bit of both going and
I'm definitely the type where it takes me a second.
I like to like dip my toe in the water.
I'm not the type to jump in. Luckily, to be honest,
coach Aryama really helped me with that. He just kind
of I think he saw that I had these like
(28:04):
two personas or no, I'm sorry, I think he saw
that I was struggling to find my persona as a
leader on the court, so he knew who I was
off the court, and he was basically helping me. Or
what he did at the time was like develop these
two personas until they became one, so kind of like
bringing me out of my shell on the court, encouraging
me to do that, sometimes gently, sometimes not so gently
(28:27):
as he does, but I think that helped, like understanding
like Okay, I can kind of create something that is
me because sidebar, The biggest advice I can give you
in terms of being a leader is you have to
do it your way. It can't be you know, whatever
whoever you've played with that you would define as like
leaders you cannot copy, you cannot mimic. You can learn,
(28:49):
and you can maybe steal, but it has to be
authentic to you because there is nothing worse than when
a player like you know, calls a huddle and you're
like you, no, this isn't right, Like it doesn't feel right,
and you can sense it right when somebody's trying too hard.
So you don't want to be like a try hard
in terms of leadership. So if your leadership to be
(29:10):
honest is you know, kind of like the quiet moments
or leading by example.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
That's okay. But if you're on a team where maybe
you might need to do more, like you're the older.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
Player now, the vet you're experienced, then you have to
try to see if you can pull pull yourself out
of your own shell to to develop this other persona.
And honestly, it's like anything, it's like you're intimidated at first,
and then you'd finally just like make yourself do it
and you're like, well, that wasn't even that bad, and
then it becomes with practice more natural. So you just
(29:42):
got to get over that first hump, because I promise
you it's not even it's not even that hard or
not even that bad, and it's going to become who
you are the more you do it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, and it'll be worth it. That's why I keep
trying to tell myself, is this temporary discomfort, like that'll go,
but it's going to be worth it in the long run.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
Definitely.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Do you remember anything like while you're preparing for your
senior year, what you did, what your mindset was like.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
So I was really lucky because my junior year we
had an incredibly talented team Setlana Brusseimova che ral. For
the seniors, there are all Americans. My class obviously is juniors.
D's class is if they just finish their freshman year,
but we lose, we lose in the final four. So
going into my senior year, we had that motivation. I mean,
(30:28):
you know what it's like, right when you lose in
the final four, It's like that's all you're thinking about.
It's driving everything. So I feel like I was, like
I said, I feel like I was lucky because it
was my last year. We fucking lost in the in
the semifinals to Notre Dame, and that is just fueling everything.
So we were just like mission like revenge, redemption, I
(30:49):
in the prize. Nothing was going to get in the
way of that. And so I think there it's always
a challenge to go back to back. So I feel
like that's that's a little bit of a difference. But
I don't see why you can't channel some of that
energy because it is your final year.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
This is a new group.
Speaker 5 (31:03):
I think the biggest advice I could give you in
terms of trying to go back to back, and this
is someone who if you don't count Russia, I never
went back to back my whole career. I did in
Russia a couple times, but never in the US. So
the hardest part don't try to don't try to replicate
what you did the year before.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
Don't be like, yo, guys, last year we did this
or last year was like that.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
Nope, you got to like last year is last year
and everybody has to You have to like, you have
to form this year's identity.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
So you got to push last year to the side.
So that'll be my biggest advice.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
Uh oh, I'm excited.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Okay, So, Sue, I want to know more about how
you balanced your private life and your public life.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
When did you notice, like fans.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Or people start to take an interest in what you
had going on off the court?
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (31:57):
Man, like immediately they're always interested, always trying to guess,
always trying, I mean easy you know about this, always
trying to figure it out, always trying to like, Oh,
you're wearing a T shirt?
Speaker 4 (32:08):
What does that mean?
Speaker 5 (32:11):
What is this?
Speaker 4 (32:11):
What does this shows jeans on today? What does that mean?
Speaker 3 (32:14):
So this was all through college and into I mean, so.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
I will say listen, obviously a little different. There was
no social media.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
When I was in college, there wasn't really even social media,
like probably like half my career there was no social media,
so it's it was the access was different, but but
people like came up to you more in person and
like would like just straight up ask questions, so like
that was happening. There's always like assumptions also, so people
(32:45):
are like always reading into stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
It's definitely a part of it. And I think the
management is, you know, just.
Speaker 5 (32:51):
Understanding that and really you know, remembering once you like
put something out into the world, you can't get it back.
But also I think living again authentically bring up that
word again, like it is super important to being like
your full self, your full self as a person and
then since we're talking about basketball a little bit, your
(33:11):
full self as a player. Like I found that when
I was doing that. And by the way, I didn't
come out publicly. I was like out to everybody in
my life probably by the time I was twenty three,
so everybody in my life knew, I mean, friends, family, teammates,
the Storm organization. I had to come out to coach
and CD, so like that was I literally came out.
(33:33):
Well everybody not had to let me take that back.
It wasn't like I had to. I wanted to be like,
this is who I am, this is who I'm dating,
or this is who I am, and this is It
was important for me, but I didn't actually say it
publicly until I was like thirty seven years old.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Wow, I know, it's kind of a trip.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
And even at thirty seven, I noticed a difference by
saying it publicly, So there was something really rewarding about it.
But once you're out publicly, now you're inviting you and
more people to try to to you know, guess or
say shit or exactly. So you gotta just you can't listen.
You can't listen to those opinions. But yeah, once you
(34:11):
put something out there, you can't get it back either,
So you gotta That's to me, like the management. You
want to be yourself, but always with the understanding that
once it's out there, you can't get it back.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
So that's the juggle, that's the balance, that's the management.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Deciding what you keep for yourself and what you give
to the world.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
It's tough.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Now.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
I'm like, is there something I wish I could take back? Nah,
I don't know. Megan and I are like, well, she
was so out.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
She was like, so gay, I was guilty by She's like,
I was gay adjacent, but she was gay gay?
Speaker 4 (34:42):
Oh my god, yeah she was gay? Yeah, gay adjacent?
What's that made me gay?
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Okay, Sue, thank you for that. So a couple of
not random, but like off of basketball topics.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
I want to know. So you broke your nose five times?
Which one hurt the most?
Speaker 4 (35:08):
Honestly all of them.
Speaker 5 (35:10):
I think the first one though, because it really I
knew immediately that it was broken, and so not only
did it hurt, You've been hitting the nose right.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
I mean, it's unavoidable.
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Not only did it hurt, yeah, not only did it hurt,
I was like, oh my, I was like, oh no,
you know what I mean, like the reality of my
literally feeling my bone like off to the side, the
shock of that, the combination.
Speaker 4 (35:38):
So first one, for sure.
Speaker 1 (35:41):
Do you have a favorite pass from your career?
Speaker 5 (35:44):
I think my favorite pass ever is probably the one
over my head. That one gets a lot of play,
gets a lot of love. I don't even know where
it came from, but I remember seeing like my teammates
reactions and that was probably the best part.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Iconic.
Speaker 5 (35:58):
Yeahine, iconic and now Marine Johannes is just like doing
it all over the place.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
That's make it up easy.
Speaker 5 (36:06):
Fuck.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Okay, So now it is time for fun and games.
So leave a couple get fun games lined up. The
first one, we're gonna have you draft your dream Yukon team.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
Oh you're trying to get me, trying to get me
to go viral. You see how this works? My my,
what do you mean by dream? Just like what I
think is the best.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
I guess you can take it. However, because I have
two answers. I have two answers like coach gave his
team to win, or like what is the team to win?
Or is the team to have fun?
Speaker 5 (36:43):
I would go like, I mean, this could be both.
This could be both. These teams are fun and both
these teams could win. I'm just gonna give it to you.
So I do think if I had to ride or
die just like one time, you're throwing us out there
one time, and I got to pick four others, I'm
going with my senior year, so me swin to meet
Asia Diana, Like hard to argue that starting five, But
(37:04):
I think if I had to go like all time
great and you know usually I don't like picking myself,
but I'll pick myself. I'll pick Diana Maya Stewie and
Tina Charles, and I think that would be probably both
fun and really difficult to be. Yeah, I feel like
you can't go wrong with who's yours, just like all
the players you played with.
Speaker 1 (37:25):
I mean, if I'm gonna pick a team, I'm gonna
pick yeah, like I'm gonna ride with my dogs. But
like I said, you can't go wrong with any any
you kind of love ever.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Okay. So so for the next game, we're gonna play
fun or done.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
We are going to rank some draft outfits, some outfits
throughout the years, Okay, okay, And for the listeners, we'll
do our best to describe. But make sure y'all check
us out on YouTube to see the pictures. All right,
So that's the first one.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
Do you want me to describe it? Well, you get
to decide whether this is a fun or so meaning
like fud as a draft day.
Speaker 4 (38:02):
This is draft day. This is a fud.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Okay, fire, I.
Speaker 5 (38:05):
Agree, all draft pictures, all draft pictures by default, are fudds, okay,
because it's like even when they're bad, they're good.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
We love a business casual, ready for work.
Speaker 5 (38:18):
Oh this is I always say, this is a The
top and the pants are from Express. She got I
did have I did have a jat a blazer like
a suit. It matched the pants and you know, in
a last second decision, right before my name was called,
I decided to get rid of it. And I feel
like it's the best thing that could have happened. I
really would have been like straight up business casual.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
So this gave it. I leaned a little more cash,
which I think helped help this stay a fud and
not become a Dutch.
Speaker 3 (38:47):
I think he's still cute.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Yeah, my toes are out. Listen, my toes are out.
We got some Steve maddens on.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Tiffany in a sleeveless gray and white or is that
black and white stripes kind of vibe.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
Yeah, it had like it was a stretchy material.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
It's like it looks comfy.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
Yes, yeah, and shout out to that to the chair.
Speaker 3 (39:10):
Okay, all that chair is given chair? What else from
a Kia? Oh?
Speaker 4 (39:15):
Probably this is?
Speaker 5 (39:16):
This is This is literally right after I got drafted. Okay,
you gotta take all your little portrait pics.
Speaker 4 (39:22):
Oh it was a fud.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Why describe.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I could wear that now to jump.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
So I could wear this now, maybe without the necklace
and maybe those are actually shorts.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
Oh they're not connected, Brice, I got zoom.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah, I could pull this off now twenty fourteen.
Speaker 3 (39:44):
That's not so bad.
Speaker 5 (39:45):
Where does this outfit from? God, it might be from
like Max Maara or like BCBG or like something like that.
Speaker 4 (39:54):
If I had to guess.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
So it's shorts and a top, a black and white top.
Speaker 4 (39:58):
And I think it was connected. I think it's like
one like a jump yeah, like a jumper romper situation.
But it was shorts.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
It did look like a skirt or a dress, but
it's shorts, okay. And I think D still has that blazer.
I think D still rocks that blazer.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
I'm crying. Necklace and all greatlace.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Oh that's a deep V.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Deep's a deep showing the necklaces.
Speaker 5 (40:31):
The necklaces are legit and and credit to Andrew Bernstein.
Andy Bernstein, he is a great photographer. I've known him
like almost my entire playing career. So shout out to Andy.
He took a good flick.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Okay, Andy, all right, this next one.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Whoa, this is a dud? Okay, this is a dud.
I don't even know like what's happening some times.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Look how little you are, how young you are.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
I feel like, yeah, the word to describe so many
of these is just cute, Like yes, so cute.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
Yeah, she has this. I don't even know how to
describe this material. What's this, sue?
Speaker 2 (41:13):
It's like I don't know, like a lacey Okay, you
give me a little sexy business.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
You better go ahead that buckle.
Speaker 5 (41:23):
Buckles are coming back. My favorite thing is when I
see I'm just gonna love this.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
Sorry, guys, blue jeans with a lacy white top, okay.
Speaker 5 (41:32):
And what like does that necklace act as a shield? Also,
just like take it off and what is going on?
So this is yeah, we've entered dud category.
Speaker 4 (41:45):
This is a dud.
Speaker 5 (41:47):
But I was just gonna say, I love how I'm
seeing like styles from kind of like this. If I
have to guess, is like early two thousands are starting
to come back. I see a lot about buckles these days.
I'm just saying, not that nucklace.
Speaker 3 (42:01):
Snow here we go?
Speaker 4 (42:03):
Oh girl, how do you feel about this?
Speaker 1 (42:07):
This was?
Speaker 4 (42:09):
You know, I have a really I have like one
of those memories I don't forget anything. This was like
a shoot.
Speaker 5 (42:14):
These aren't my clothes. I was putting these clothes, okay,
which is fine. It's you know, basic black and white striped.
Probably the same jeans as the picture before. They're giving
blue jeans.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
You some shoes.
Speaker 5 (42:31):
I can't see the shoes. I can't see. Oh, those
are Nikes. I think this was a Nike shoot. So
those are some air Force ones. The shoes were usually
on point.
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Is yes, if you zoom to the top, yeah, this
was this is back in the day.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
You know, those are air Force And if you zoom
up on the top, there's like a little Nike check
on the top. Right.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
Yeah, the shirt's Nike.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Yes, I was.
Speaker 4 (42:59):
I was doing listen. I was just like doing my contract.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
But seriously fudded up for that, Like, would you put
that on?
Speaker 5 (43:07):
Yo? The Air Force ones? Yes, this is a fun
This is a fun Yes, I would have it on now,
per se.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
The shirt given Beetle juice.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Uh, Beetle Juice is classic, So it's classic, yo.
Speaker 5 (43:26):
The things this is what I had to do to
get a gold medal. This is what I had to
do to get a gold medal. I didn't have a
say I said, are you serious? This was for the
London Olympics.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Do you have the one where I have the hat on?
Speaker 5 (43:39):
Oh, you know, there's one where I have the whole
hat on. I'm like, you know, I forget the names
of those soldiers.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
But okay, so we represent heavy.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
Yes, it wasn't.
Speaker 5 (43:50):
The coat looks heavy, you know, and I'm like, the
scarf is you know, listen the coat. Wait, what are
the names of these soldiers. It's just the King's Guard.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Oh, the King's Guard.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
Yeah, they like guard the palaces. Oh, I like outside
of Buckingham Palace. Yeah, so they're like the King's Guard
outside of Buckingham Palace. You do these these photo shoots
when you're headed to the Olympics where they just have
you to do a bunch of different stuff. And so
this was before the London Olympics. They had us all
put this coat on and then you know, they had
to let let everybody know I was still American, so
(44:21):
they put this scarf on me. I don't know, it's
just this is listen, it's a fud because it's funny
buds and for funny in this Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:35):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (44:36):
My pictures through the years are so ridiculous and so
funny and so tragic, and yet it would have been
worse if there were camera phones, so I can't even complain.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
If social media, it would have been worse.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
But it's okay because thoule now fire and you get
to pick what you want to wear and you don't
have to do this again.
Speaker 3 (45:00):
And some of us coming back, like you said, so.
Speaker 5 (45:02):
I should have kept friends, except apparently that that striped
Nike shirt. You guys are saying that one's out.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, yeah, So the last little thing is gonna be
quick one two. Happy belated birthday.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
From me asy and foot around the foot around, find
out pod quick story. We share a friend. Her name
is Alex Taylor.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
She does Hoop York City, which is a woman's collective
and it's it was started to have give women a
safe place to play where it's just all women. It's
been around since twenty eighteen. And you guys have you know,
developed a friendship. I don't know if you remember the
conversation you had with Alex at Deep Blue launch party,
but she had this shirt originally and the woman on
(46:02):
it was just, in your words, a bootleg coop YC
logo but now it's you. Happy birthday. It's you and
we all have one and you are going to have
one delivered to your house. So happy birthday and we
love you.
Speaker 3 (46:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (46:23):
Oh that is so sweet, yo. I just wore that
the other.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Day and now you've got to give you an updated
one and it's going to be me yes, because the
advice you gave was, you know, give a real athlete
on there, and what better athlete than you?
Speaker 5 (46:36):
So we love that.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
Thank you guys so much, and obviously shout out to Alex.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
Thank you so much for listening and tuning in to
today's podcast. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe to
futt Around and find Out wherever you get your podcasts,
and we'll see you.
Speaker 3 (46:51):
Guys next week.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Futt Around and find Out is a production of iHeart
Women's Sports and Unanimous Media. Executive producers are Jesse Katz,
Eric Peyton, Charlotte Sumter Brugette, and Stephen Curry. Co executive
producer is Kleana Maria Cutney. Producers are Mike Coscarelli and
co producers are Kurt Redmand, Maya Howard, and Jacquelin Schoeninger.
This podcast is edited by Mike Costcarelli and hosted by
(47:14):
me Azy Fudd and a Shawnty Plummer
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