September 15, 2020 • 40 mins
Esther @choibites chats with Samantha McVey, host of feminist podcast Stuff Mom Never Told You. At seven years old, Samantha came to the United States from Korea as an adoptee to a small, predominately white town in the mountains of northern Georgia. She unpacks some of the difficult adjustments and hardships she faced being a part of a community where she not only looked different than everyone else, but she also initially couldn't even speak the language of her new family. Samantha talks about her identity as a Korean adoptee, racism, trauma, healing and her search for her "people."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
I have triggering foods, like I will take something and
it brings back such a sensory memory for me that
it's shocking. It sets me back to like it takes
my breath away because I realized there's this moment of
this and not realizing it until I have to sit
there and process through and be like, Okay, this is
why this takes familiar Welcome to get down with kay Town.
(00:26):
I'm your host esther Choy. Hey guys, there's one topic
I've wanted to cover for a bit, and we'll probably
cover it a few times throughout this series. It's Korean adoptees.
I mean, it's inevitable to talk about as many of
my friends are Korean adoptees, and it's a topic that
we can't stray away from. Here's why. Over the past
six decades, at least two hundred thousand Korean children have
(00:49):
been adopted into families in more than fifteen countries, with
majority being the US. Obviously, I've known this personally through
tons of friends and just being myself. It's impossible not
to know. When I studied abroad at soul At Women's
University for a semester in college, I've met a ton
of Korean adoptees from all over the world who is
(01:11):
also starting abroad hoping for a connection to South Korea
and to either look for their birth families or figure
out their identity and connect with other adoptees. I've heard
some incredible stories and even now, if you just research
online about the long history of Korean adoptees, it goes
very deep now that I think about it. Probably why
(01:33):
I have so many friends that are Korean adoptees is
because most of this happened in the seventies and eighties,
which is pretty much my generation, hence my age group.
Especially when you go to Korea, there are now tons
of adoptees that are living in Soul, thousands from all
over the world. I mean, it's pretty incredible. Today I'm
(01:54):
here in Atlanta to hear one particular story a Korean
adoptee herself a fell. The host that I heart media
Samantha McVeigh. Hi, Hi, Samantha Sis. Samantha is the host
of the show Stuff Mom Never Told You. And before
we dive into the topic, Samantha, can you briefly tell
(02:14):
our listeners what your show is about? Absolutely? Yes, I
am a host with Stuff Mom Never Told You with
any Reese and our show is all about feminism and
intersectionality of what feminism is and telling stories and telling
ideas behind different concepts, from topics about bisexuality and how
it affects women to talking about b d s M
(02:35):
and women in that industry, as well as we talked
about trauma and the me to air and what that
looks like today doing a full scale UM conversation between
the beginning, which is having we had a woman come
in and tell her story of victim come and tell
her story. Then we had a researcher come and talk
about rape kits, than we had an investigator talking about
what it looks like to have empathetic interviewing all the
(02:56):
way into having an episode with us being live with
a therapist UM talking about our own trauma. So we've
had a gamut of different things and then we can talk. Also,
we talked about women in movies, UM, badass women in movies,
whether they are the heroes or the anti heroes, and
we will talk let's see we have features about but
clause with women feature or those who identify as women
(03:19):
or non binary were very inclusive and we just want
to talk about the subjects of today and how that
is still important that we have these conversations. So that's
what my shows about. Amazing, So you go from being
lighthearted to like very deep. I mean, I feel like
today's topic will be a pretty deep one, right, just
because I mean, because it is thinking about the history
(03:41):
of the whole era of adoption and why it happened.
Do you know the history of why there's so many adoptees, right, So,
according to one of the conversations and the organizations that
I was adopted from, which was Whole International Um, they
had a beginning where the woman who created this specific
(04:02):
orphanage and she's created orphanage during the war. During the
Korean War, there was a lot of babies that were
produced through listit affairs. We can say, however whatnot. And
due to that, there were a lot of mixed race babies,
so interracial children, and due to that, they were not
accepted into the family, whether it had to do with
(04:22):
honor system, whether it's just an acceptance of being dishonored
through how they came about. So it's like cultural and
Korean right, So because of that, there was a lot
of children literally abandoned on the streets and a little um.
Somehow all of those uh produced again children that had
no homes, and this woman who was I guess had
(04:43):
come over there at that point in time doing mission
trips or whatever whatnot, um decided that she felt like
this was her calling to raise these children, and she
ended up adopting herself. I think like eight children, is
it eight? Yes? Yes, one with eleven um eight children.
So because of that level, that's where then they have
course had the sad stories on the different news shows
(05:06):
and media, and that's how I was adopted. Essentially, my
mom watched the TV show with this highlighting this woman
and what her works were, and then going from there
she decided, yeah, that her calling was to have to
adopt a child, a child from Korea, and that was
her intent as a mother, I guess. And you're not
talking about your birth mother obviously, you know about your
(05:27):
mother that raised you. Yes, growing up in the South,
it's a Southern accent. I have definitely have an accident, right,
a Noncrean name but with a Korean face, and you
have a very specific visual identity, rightly, right? How was that? So?
I think there's a lot of different factors because growing
up and in that time frame, I knew I was different,
(05:50):
but being told that I'm accepted because I'm with a
specific type of family that had notoriety, essentially in that
small community, I was kind of protected. So even though
in Atlanta right here, so I was actually further from Atlanta,
about an hour and a half north in the mountains
of Georgia. We are at the foothills of the Appalachian Trail. Like, yeah,
(06:11):
that that's how far up um very small town. Literally,
the only person of color in that town, especially in
that school, outside of some of the immigrant families coming
from Guatemala or Mexico who were already kind of but
in terms of Asian, you're the only one one at
that point in time, only one with an Asian face. Yes,
(06:31):
especially in the schools in my generation. I think there
were other people there that I just didn't know about,
didn't you know, have any connections to until later in life. Um.
I think there was one other girl who came in
in my middle school time frame, and she was half Filipino,
and I met her and I was like, oh, hey, hey,
what's up. And that looked and then the other parts
that was there was a shame factor in having someone
similar to me because I desperately needed to feel like
(06:53):
I need to be white to fit in. So it's
a whole different like breakdown. And honestly, it was until
probably the last ten years that I really and have
been struggling with trying to find my identity as an
Asian woman, trying to figure out what that is for
me and um, trying to figure that out in the
world that I grew up in, especially today's politics, is
(07:14):
very obvious that myself and my family are two sides.
Before we dive into that, we want to start from
the beginning. How old were you when you were so,
I was turning seven when I came into the US,
you were essentially an older child. Yes, Um, I was
placed in the orphanage when I was four five. I
(07:34):
lived there for a couple of years. Uh. And before that,
your birth mother, I was actually with my grandmother birth grandmother,
so I was pretty quickly whatever issues may have been
gone down from what I understand, my mother and my
father biological mother and father divorced, uh and she got remarried.
And typically within Critorian traditions, stepchildren do not stay with
(08:00):
stoually not with a mother. You can't even be a
legal like citizen without having like a father's name, right,
So at that point I was given to the care
of my grandmother, who at that point in time did
keep me for a couple of years and raised me
for a couple of years, but found it too hard
and too stressful, and so then I was placed in
an orphanage at that point in time that had connections
um with the international adoption agency. So you were at
(08:22):
at the orphanage for at least three years before you
found a family to adopt you, But two to three
years I'm gonna estimate, because honestly, those time frames are
so smeared in my head that I can't quite remember
all of the yes, just because some of our listeners
might not know. Obviously, as an older child trying to
(08:43):
get adopted, you were one of the lucky ones, very
very love absolutely because there are thousands and thousands of
children that were in these orphanages, and if you're older,
it's just you had no chances. The time with in
the orphanage was actually traumatic, not necessary. Well, actually there
was several things, but a lot of that also had
to do with the fact that the older children that
(09:03):
were there were very angry and very aggressive and very
territorial and rightly so. Also with the fact that there's
a lot of mishaps that happened and obviously a lot
of abuse, yes, and then that would be a conversation
to have. But like things that are opened up, and
then the older you get, the more likely you're going
(09:24):
to succumb to that environment. Anyway, So growing up, as
the small amount of time that I did, it made
absolute sense that these these these girls were really really
angry girls, and so a dramatic part of my growing
up was trying to figure out how to survive that
in itself. So I was I think the entire time
(09:45):
that I was there, I think I was the third
person to be adopted, and every single one of us,
I think, were adopted out of the country, mostly in
the US. And you got adopted into your American family,
And did you have any siblings? Uh? There, So again
that's kind of one of those conversations. I remember an
older brother, but I can't quite place anything. Okay, So
(10:07):
in my actually I do have three older siblings today
they you are biological children to my adopted family. So
I'm the youngest, but between myself and the youngest sibling,
who was my brother, were only seven months apart. Okay,
so you gotta adopted into this family, and how was
it growing up with your family? So obviously there's a
lot of good, a lot of bad. I think for
(10:28):
the first year, I was just trying to communicate from
what my was told, and I do remember a lot
of things happening, but my mother always lost it a
few times because the fighting between myself and the younger
brother were so intense, and because there's no way to
communicate with me what was happening. It was a whole
kind of a breakdown, especially due to communication. So it
(10:50):
was a really interesting time. There was a lot of
conversations for me and trying to figure out how to
fit in, especially to a family that's already been establish
before I got there. So were the youngest, Yes, I
was the youngest, and they've already been established for this
past seven years as this family. Okay, I can't not
ask this question, but why did they decided to adopt? Right? So,
my mom, for whatever reason, knew without a doubt, after
(11:13):
I guess watching this that she would adopt an older
child that was always her intent, knowing that that was
one of the biggest needs. So that's incredible. Yeah, So
it really was the look of the draw because essentially,
when it comes down to it, she had wanted to
adopt before I was born. Um, but because they were
so young, and because all of these things, they were
advised to foster first. So for a while they fostered
(11:36):
over a hundred kids, I want to say, before they
adopted me in the US American American children. Yes, um.
And so when everything kind of fell into places when
I was actually at the orphanage, and then why did
he decide on a Korean child? Was it that commercial
one of that specific talking about miss Holt and her mission,
that was a very reason that they felt like they
(11:57):
should adopt. It wasn't necessarily, um, about just a child.
It was about a Korean child from this UH organization essentially.
That's it's crazy how that works actually, right. Okay, So
(12:21):
growing up in the mountains of Georgia as the only
Asian faced kid. Can you go a little bit deeper
on that. So it was a lot of one of you.
Like I said, I was one of the lucky ones
that I got accepted in because my family was sort
(12:42):
of known, um, I's adorable. Look at me. Come on,
And I was gonna say, if you see my little
pictures from way back when, yeah, I'm too cute not
to like come on guys. But yeah, no, they It
was not that hard for me to find make friends. Uh.
And I think a lot of that had to do
with kind of not a fetishism necessarily, but in a
(13:03):
kind of curiosity of hey, she's different, you look different,
let's talk to you. Maybe you're They were intrigued by you. Yes, yes.
And also you have to remember I still spoke Korean
while I started kindergarten. Used to do you still speaks Korean?
Now I don't, so I got lost. I even took
three semesters of Korean trying to relearn, and I cannot
(13:26):
grasp that language. To the point mild teacher bless her heart,
who came from Soul to teach at the university, and
I said, bless your heart, can we talk about how southern?
That was, right, I just said it. But she came
to from South Korea to teach at the University of Georgia,
and she gave me excuses. She's like, you're an adoptee,
I get it whatever, And I was like, m She's like,
when you know you're a baby, and I was like, no, seven,
(13:47):
she goes. She just she was really kind of shocked,
and I was like, I don't I don't get it.
I've been trying to learn and I'm just struggling. So
and I was literally the second worst in that class
outside of a white girl. Did you just like block
it from your memory? A lot of it and a
lot of it has to do with trauma and a
lot and like I've had therapy upon therapy, therapy is
(14:10):
good for you, just in case you'all need to know.
It is great. Get it, do it. Upon trying to
figure out what is this? Why am I like this?
Why can't I go past this hurdle? Because even when
I speak, even though I had that Southern accents, there's
moments that I trip up on words because of the
Korean dialect is very different from so like the elden
eld in the RS. I still mix that up even
though I haven't spoken Korean and over thirty years, it's
(14:33):
some kind of like hidden day in your brain. But
I'm amazing when it comes to Spanish, I can pick
sure up. But yeah, like I can pick things up
pretty quickly on other languages, just not Korean. That definitely
has to do with some sort of a lot of traumatic.
So a lot of that, to say is growing up.
And my parents and I have talked about lots of
times I should have gone to therapy. I didn't. I
(14:55):
was doing okay um, And I did like I said,
I just did really well. I always grew up understanding
that I should be grateful and that not necessarily that
you know, anyone told me I owed anything, but feeling
like I owed something because I was one of the
fews that left. I was one of one of the
few that was old enough to remember all the why
oh thank god this happened. But yeah, I think growing
(15:19):
up was really interesting because I did. I had to
try to find myself in a place where no one
knew how. I had no mentors, I had no one
to talk to you, I didn't know exactly what it
felt like, and not realizing that I wasn't white um
and that yes I would sit and watch TV and
sit and watch things that the real world outside of
(15:40):
my small town that I'm like, man, I wish I
could have that, but I didn't have that access and
being like, man, it would be easier if I was white.
I remember coming home being teased by dumb kids, as
we know, and my mom again bless their hearts, telling me, oh,
they're just jealous, when actually they're racist. And I just
didn't understand that what we're of kind of things that
(16:01):
they were saying, Oh, you know, the whole Chinese he
has all of those things coming at me with slanted eyes,
coming at me, screaming like yeah yeah, and pretending like
I don't know English. Um. It got really weird as
I was growing up dating because I remember, again predominantly white.
(16:24):
There were no black people in my community, not growing up,
not not at all. Um. And I remember someone talking
we came to Atlanta to do uh competition of sorts.
This dude we were all like just frossing at the
mouth over him. He was a beautiful, beautiful black boy.
We were just like black man. We were like, yes,
(16:44):
he has beautiful let's go talk to him. And of
course our white guy friends were racist as hell talking
about all these things about them. And I'm getting offended
because I'm like, hey, right, like I'm are just like
treating you like you were, and then when I would
say something. I remember there was this girl who was
(17:07):
trying to be one of the boys, was like, you know,
I don't believe in interracial relationships either, and she's like,
there's just something something, And I kind of looked at
her because a week before she was trying to send
me up with her cousin, and I went, you do
know that I'm not white, and if I date your cousin,
that's interracial. When she had to kind of stopped talking,
her first face turned red. But in understanding that I
(17:28):
don't fit in this, I don't fit in that, and
I am definitely a model minority in their eyes and
without them knowing what that is. But you were like confused. Yeah,
so a lot of confusion, trying to grow up understanding
that this is wrong. The way my family my friends
are talking about black people is completely wrong, but in
their minds is just oh, you know, we're just talking
to her friends. That whole like modern racism and the
(17:52):
microaggressions that are there that I'm I'm seeing it because
I'm very aware I'm not white, and and it's kind
of one of those things that, yeah, and growing up
and trying to be trying to hide like that's that
was part of the things, like shrinking away not only
as a woman, but as purchase. Yeah, oh, absolutely absolutely,
(18:12):
And I will say like again, I definitely grew up
knowing that my parents love me and support me and
see them at see me as a daughter, and I
love him to death, but growing up and becoming very
aware that we were slowly separating that I no longer
believe the same things because my experiences were different from
them already. Whether I'm getting looked at because I'm coming
(18:33):
in with a white family, I'm getting looked at with
questions when I'm you know, about my name. Even so,
it was as a whole interesting dynamic to try to
adjust and then coming into my adulthood and trying to
be an advocate and trying to be someone who's socially
conscious and trying to speak awareness about womenim color and intersectionality,
(18:54):
as well as the fact that I realized as an
Asian woman, I'm privileged as well, even though I'm ill
one of the ones that are affected, I'm more privileged
in that scope of things, and trying to come out
and have a conversation about what does this look like
in reality and what does this look like for an
advocate and then not and then feeling shame because I
(19:15):
can't find my identity and I don't know my identity myself.
That's probably the reason why you decided to do social work,
and that's how you came across your profession and why
you're such an advocate, and probably your goal is to
be a spokesperson for these topics and issues. Can you
talk a little bit about how you decided, Okay, this
(19:37):
is like what I'm gonna do. I think growing up,
I didn't know what I could do, and I just
knew that I couldn't. It wasn't the norm. I'm not
the teacher, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a doctor,
any of those things. Um From my family, the education
was not the forefront. Not not that they discouraged it.
They did not. They were so proud for the things
(19:57):
that I've done. But my parents, them elves, didn't go
to college and so it's not one of those things
that they think it's priority. Not all of the siblings
went to college and everybody's great and fine, as in fact,
those who didn't go to college and make more money
than me when I was a social work and I
was very upset about this. It's like, I don't understand.
But I came in to college knowing that the one
(20:20):
thing I needed to do was help and whatever that
looked like. The one thing I had to do is
I had to give back, and I had to give
back to those who couldn't do it for themselves. Again,
I came up growing up knowing that I owed something.
You always had that feeling of wanting to give back. Yes,
I always had the feeling that I had to. That
was kind of elliott because it was just an obligation.
(20:42):
This is what I know. The truth is, and the
truth of this is I am lucky. There are others
and they need help to It's kind of one of
those things. And going into social work, my passion has
always been working for children and women. Obviously, it's kind
of the thing that I grew up doing. I worked
as a child abuse investigator for a couple of years
and then I work. I've worked as a placement specialists,
(21:05):
which gets treatment to kids who are in the juvenile system.
So it's definitely something that I have always been very
very passionate about, and no, I knew nothing else in
my life honestly coming into this world knowing that I
had to fight for something because again, I've seen too
many people who can't fight for themselves or are not
(21:27):
able to speak for themselves. And so it's kind of
one of those things that I have this privilege. Now
I'm going to use it. I have to use it.
How about your identity? That is the question, because that's
(21:50):
the most important thing because right now, how do you
identify yourself? Have you try to go back and figure
out your identity because this is like always a thing
with a lot of my Korean and optive friends. It's
always about like going back and figuring out your identity,
and that's and then that's a really big question for me.
It's kind of I'm very analytical obviously. I think that's
(22:11):
part of being social work all all the time, analyzing everything,
which my friends and family love, by the way, Um,
but yeah, I just kind of keep going back in
I don't know how to be what I am. A
lot of that has to do it. There's a little
bit of hostility when it comes down to every race.
It doesn't matter. So it's kind of like I'm not white,
(22:32):
but I'm supposed to be grateful for the opportunities that
the white people gave me. I'm Asian, but yet I've
never grown up, grown up and don't understand Asian culture
as well as I should. Maybe a little angry too, right.
And then the minute I say that I'm I can't
speak Korean. I I was graced by white people, I've
been dismissed. Immediately They're like, oh, you're, oh, okay, And
(22:53):
that's kind of in that conversation. And then even in like,
obviously I'm not black, so I'm not part of that
community yet either, so you know, it is what it is. Yeah,
it really has been a question of Okay, So I'm
sitting here talking about taking your identity, being your voice
and being bigger and representing something and then you can't.
(23:13):
So it's kind of like, I but I don't know
what that looks like. And even when it comes down
to when I am grateful of the opportunities that I
have been, I'm better that I can't understand what my
ethnicity is about. I'm a little bit of that. And
my parents, again, they tried, but being isolated in a
(23:34):
small count town in the mountains, there's nothing they could do.
They think they did. They did. They took me to
a picnic that was hosted by the adoption agency and
it was apparently a great success, but because it was
so far away and they had so many children, it
was a one time thing and they really did try.
But because of that, I lost that, And of course
again with that came the shame factor of I don't
(23:54):
want to be Asian. I know what I really want
to be is white, because I'm inundated in this culture
that says this is the best way to be in
Let's be honest. Yeah, great, that would be awesome. Why
it is great? Right now? Right? Um? And that's kind
of one of those conversations that I'm like, I don't
know what to do with myself because I don't know
what I can represent fully without feeling like I'm faking ship.
(24:18):
So that was when you were growing up. But what
about like right now? And have you ever tried to
go back to your Korean identity? So right now? Like again,
I tried in college and draw like I'm going to
learn Korean. I want to. I want to be a
part of this conversation. I want to I want to
know about myself. Um, and even now again as an adult.
I dig deep, but a lot of the problems for
(24:40):
me is the trigger and the PTSD that comes from
the trauma that has happened in Korea makes me very
very anxious and to the point that it stops me
so even like trying to research, because I went through
about of researching my own name, my own history, like
it came out with nothing. But I have this fear
of going like I I have a conversation and thought
process like I should try this, But also there is
(25:03):
that level of I should be grateful. Why am I
looking into this? But being grateful and wanting to know
what your history is and what your background is like
two different things, right it is? And you know what,
like a lot of my Korean adoptive friends, there's there's
I wouldn't say two kinds, but like two different um
I guess thought process are two different types of people.
(25:25):
There's some that are like super eager that go to
Korea find out and figure out like where the family
and meet the family and go through this whole process
which is very personal and emotional and almost like invasive
emotionally think about it. And then there's this other side
that probably grew up. I mean it has nothing to
(25:48):
do with like how they grew up, but they just
they just clam up and they just can't. Like there's
there's one particular friend that even at the thought of
like Korean culture, she starts falling. And you know what
I mean literally because I think I've gone beyond that
because that's where I was. And again, this has a
lot to do just memories of things that were traumatic.
(26:08):
Again for me, I do have a lot of trauma
based in Korea. I had a lot of trauma based
in the orphanation I have, and a lot of trauma
based on an abusive biological family. So there was definitely
there's a lot of negativity and that like anxiousness that
comes over me. That's what kind of does put a
barrier for me to try to go over there. I
mean there's still parts of my head I'm like this
(26:29):
could help, but this could be like all right, So
there's this whole level of where do I want to go,
how do I think about And again, therapies wonderful people
UM and that's one of the big things that I
have to talk through a lot because I've went through
probably three or four therapists UM intensive therapist trying to
get to that root of the PTSC and the triggering
(26:52):
because obviously social work I would get triggered often often
because of similar stories to my families or clients, and
trying to unpack that has been such a problem in general,
and like the way it has affected me emotionally and mentally,
all of that that is it is it's terrifying for
(27:13):
me to try to figure out that truth. Knowing that
I can't learn Korean because there's some type of mental
block trying to protect me from something also pushed it back, like, oh, ship,
do I really really want to know? Because the things
that I do remember are not pretty there because you
were an older child, we have like these specific types
of memories connected to the Korean culture. But also obviously
(27:35):
there's this draw right right, you can't escape that. It's true,
like it's everything when it comes to Korean culture. I
will tell you even with food, Um, I have triggering foods,
Like I will taste something and it brings back such
a sensory memory for me that it's shocking, like it
sets me back to like it takes my breath away
(27:57):
because I realized, holy fuck, I remember this moment of
this and not realizing it until I have to sit
there and process through and be like, Okay, this is
why this stays familiar, This is why this and I
stayed away from it from for a long time because
because it was trauma, because I like what I'm like
if I take the wrong step. Of course, again it's
I've come like I'm about to be forty this year,
(28:19):
who um coming into that. I've grown a lot and
learned a lot, and I have found steps to calm
myself to backtrack in those moments. Um, But it does.
It's a it's a fear factor of what the hell
am I to walk into? What memory is about to open?
Because I've had moments even in college, even like five
years ago, where I'm laid out and I can't I
(28:42):
can't be touched, don't talk to me, don't look at me.
So it's just like a whole different level of what
am I willing to face? What can I face right now? Emotionally?
What am I willing to face socially because again it
feels like it's a betrayal to my adopted family to
a certain extent um. And then what am I willing
to face as a professional, like as a social worker
(29:03):
then and now as a person who speaks for hopefully
an identity for completely but with representing of a community
in itself. So it's kind of like, oh, ship, here
we go. What do we do? It's just like taking
it one step at a time, right, And it is
it's a whole level of Okay, what am I ready
to face? Essentially breaking down what's what? And I will
(29:26):
with the new administration. There's a lot of things that
I have to impact in that and even the conversation
about the adoptees and the immigration status and looking at
that and where people being sent back to their you know,
actual countries they're born where they were born from even
though they've never lived there, and stuff like that. But
(29:47):
it's just like, oh my god, there's so many things
that's just and it just impacts. Yeah, it is, and
it's again filling like what the hell? How do I help?
How my hair? Why am I hair's personal story for you?
And how can I represent my people? But who are
might be people anyway? Right? Right? Damn? Yeah, So it's
a whole it's a whole thing. And I think again, um,
(30:10):
one of the big more important things for me is
a get self care and you know, you're not talking
about all the things that could lay me out. And
I say that, you know, in the minute, like depressive personality,
I try to commit suicide, you know, a couple of
times as a child, because I was so freaking confused
about the trauma that I was in doing and the
(30:31):
triggering that was happening, that I didn't understand what was happening,
and my parents didn't either, and they didn't know, you know,
they're very religious people, really hoping that we could pray
it away and that just didn't happen, obviously, And with
that growing up and being okay, this is not weakness
and trying to like recover from Okay, I'm I'm okay,
this has gotten me. It's gotten me. I'm I can
(30:52):
feel this, let me, let me feel this, and then
let me go through this. And it's a whole different
process of like, Okay, I can't deal with this right now,
a step back, or I can't deal with this right now,
but I need help, I need people in my life,
and this is a whole and just embracing all of
those elements, right and you know what, for what it's worth,
(31:12):
the prayers did work, because look, at you now, You're amazing,
Thank you all. She's my first friends coming for me.
So not to like bring you back into like crazy
memory who I'm like, oh my gosh, am I gonna
trigger you. I mean all jokes aside. Obviously you still
love cream, right, so freaking good. But I of course
(31:39):
made you your favorite cream, didn't chap cha? This is
the only reason I said yes, Oh come on, I mean,
of course your bubbly personality. Of course you haven't even
met me before. They were like, there's a chef who
she can cook something? Yeah, okay, okay, and you don't
have to tell you anything else. So chapter, what is
(32:00):
your memory on chop J When did you have it
for the first time? That's a good question because I
don't know. We don't even I don't know. I will
tell you. This was a food that I ate and
I was familiar, Like I was like, okay, I remember this,
I remember this taste, yes, yes, And I'm like, I
remember what this taste is like. And it was a
nice memory. It was one of those like, man, I
(32:21):
wish I could remember all the food that I us see,
like the only members I really have is um that
the like being yeah, as well as uh tons and
tons of kimch. It's also very like iconic Korean dish
at that time, during like the seventies and eighties. Um
(32:42):
it was it was like a special dish that like
the children really love. Yes, I loved it. I remember
being so excited eating that. Did you eat? Do you
eat it? Now? I don't know, so I haven't gotten
that because typically when I'm at the Korean restaurants, I
usually go for like bogol gee because I love all
of that and all of the kimchi. But yeah, it's
it's funny because I was telling Marcy, my producer, about
(33:03):
this dish that you chose chop chi. Chop Chi is
obviously a very traditional Korean dish, but no Koreans actually
like it as their like favorite dish. Like growing up,
growing up, I hated chop ti. A lot of Korean
people don't like white chop tip, but a lot of
white people and a lot of Americans love chop It's
(33:27):
like their favorite Korean thing. And I know for a fact,
if I make this for Americans, it's it's all pleaser.
It's like their favorite thing ever American. When it comes
to that, I'm like yes, please, I will eat that.
These are the things that I like, and I love
the last nettles. I mean it's great. It's it's sweet,
it's salty, it has all of those elements like well balanced,
very American palette fits right probably, which was I was like, oh,
(33:49):
I'm cool with this, okay. So chap chay is one
of those dishes. It's a party food, you know, you
make it on like New Year's Day, for someone's birthday.
It's celebration. It's my birthday. It is your birthday too,
not at all, but I'm eating it pretending like it's
my birthday. Chop Ta is a glass noodle dish. It's
made with sweet potatoes and there's a ton of vegetables
(34:10):
that's like saltad and it's in like it's dressed in soy,
sesame oil, some sugar. So it's like sweet and salty.
It's delicious and it's super healthy too. It smells so okay,
go for it. Oh my god, you're sitting here talking
about talking now we're eating, y'all. Y'all just watching. It's
(34:30):
not that creepy. It's my favorite thing in the world.
I love watching people eat. Oh my god. I'm so
happy right now, I'm talking about my mouthful. M hm. Also,
you don't know this about me, but when I get
really happy and start eating, I usually start dancing and humming.
(34:52):
So I'm trying to trying to resist from whatever the
fuck get food. I can't be that girl like people
make fun of me because I get really said. And
you know what, I don't usually eat with my guests,
but I'm gonna eat with you. I'm real glad you are,
(35:15):
because that's that feels weird to me. Also, slurping is
a great thing. Mmm. You know, because I grew up
in the American culture of slopping is not a great thing. Yeah,
you're not supposed to because it's considered rude, right right.
And then yeah, in Asian culture, it's all about the slurping.
(35:35):
It's important to slurp because it's bringing the flap area.
I don't know how to do that. I'm not gonna
lie without actually like just spinning out the food, So
I'm not gonna try sure a moment right now. Okay,
I'm gonna try slurping the food, and if it all
falls out, I'm gonna start crying. Wait at it, You're
(35:57):
natural that was not unnatural. Don't lie to me, ester.
What do you think? Do you like it? Oh? I know?
I love it because everything. I'm not going to cravey
this for days. I'm going to go to all the
Buford market places. And it's funny that you said, like
when people make this dish, they make like a ship
ton of it, because I didn't. I mean, I was
trying to make a small portion, but I think it's
(36:18):
impossible to make a small portion of chopped tip, and
I made this like crazy bowl of it. And obviously
all the leftovers are at Jess and Chad's place, and
they're gonna be the most excited people forever. I mean,
if you haven't encountered this dish, I feel like it's
a gateway Korean dish to like all Korean foods, because
(36:40):
it's just it's just so good. It's it's like, there's
no way in hell I can make this, but it
feels so simple, and now you have to make it.
That's a challenge cooking Korean food. I'm sure that's going
to be another level level of mental One of the
memories I do have growing up my grandmother, my biologues
with grandmother owned a restaurant. Wow smells, and that's that's
(37:06):
why you have so much connection that absolutely because I
don't I didn't realize it then, but yeah, I remember
it was like a restaurant, bar kept with type of
thing that she had, and I was always in the back,
hiding away from the adults, but smelling everything, probably tasting.
So that was that's probably why you have such a
connection to It isn't absolutely. As we're eating this, I
(37:29):
definitely am having a moment of like, yeah, this is familiar,
but for it, it's definitely one of those moments of
like this is a disconnect on the each side of
like this is a different life, so it feels disconnected
and trying to figure out where the fund did this
memory come from? Where what was it? So it's an
interesting aspect for sure, because as you know before you
(37:50):
met me, I love food and I'm very excited about
all the foods um. So part of that to me
is really interesting that I have a connection, an emotional connection,
because I'm not I have heard that about chefs. It's
all about it's all about it's always about a specific
memory that brings you back to home and what that is.
(38:12):
And for me, that's how I cook too, And a
lot of my food is obviously very traditional and it's
a memory and it's a connection to my heritage. And
I'd love to unravel one dish at a time with you,
if you if you'd like, Even if that brings out tears,
I'm gonna say, I'm going to do this as like
future episodes, and you're just gonna cook be more food
and I'm gonna cry into it. Yeah, man, someone flying
(38:35):
in New York, I'm going the food. Well, you have
to visit me in New York, and I would love
to do this with you, and you know, go deeper. Yeah, absolutely,
I think anything, especially when it comes to race, especially
when it comes to trauma, any of that, there's so
many faces to a person's story and the level of
what it is, and then trying to understand each other
(38:56):
on different levels. It might not be the same reasoning
or same past experiences, with the feelings and emotions are
very similar and very very reminiscent of each other, and
I think that's really important. And this is just a
surface level. And remember in the beginning of this episode,
I literally said, this is a topic that I wanted
to cover and It's probably going to happen multiple times
(39:17):
in my series because this is just the first time,
and there's too many layers for us to cover in
what thirty forty minutes. There's always a part two of
part three, at a part four exactly. And again, everybody
story is very, very different, whether it was a baby
coming along and trying to find themselves and finding their
family or not. So Yeah, Samantha, thank you so much
(39:39):
for sharing your story. How can we find you and
your podcast? Yes again, it's Stuff Mom Never Told You.
We are with I Heart formally of how stuff works.
You can find us on the interwebs That Moms Stuff
on Twitter as well as Stuff Mom Never Told You
on Instagram and on Facebook. Yea, yea, come see us
(40:00):
and that's our show. Thanks for listening. If you like
what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a five
star review. Get Down with Kaytown is a production of
I Heart Radio and was created by our executive producer,
Christopher Hasiotis and me as to Troy follow me on
all sociare Media at toy Bites and I'd also like
to thank our producer, editor and mixer Marcy to Pina
(40:21):
for more podcasts from i heart Radio, visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
I have triggering foods, like I will take something and
it brings back such a sensory memory for me that
it's shocking. It sets me back to like it takes
my breath away because I realized there's this moment of
this and not realizing it until I have to sit
there and process through and be like, Okay, this is
why this takes familiar Welcome to get down with kay Town.
(00:26):
I'm your host esther Choy. Hey guys, there's one topic
I've wanted to cover for a bit, and we'll probably
cover it a few times throughout this series. It's Korean adoptees.
I mean, it's inevitable to talk about as many of
my friends are Korean adoptees, and it's a topic that
we can't stray away from. Here's why. Over the past
six decades, at least two hundred thousand Korean children have
(00:49):
been adopted into families in more than fifteen countries, with
majority being the US. Obviously, I've known this personally through
tons of friends and just being myself. It's impossible not
to know. When I studied abroad at soul At Women's
University for a semester in college, I've met a ton
of Korean adoptees from all over the world who is
(01:11):
also starting abroad hoping for a connection to South Korea
and to either look for their birth families or figure
out their identity and connect with other adoptees. I've heard
some incredible stories and even now, if you just research
online about the long history of Korean adoptees, it goes
very deep now that I think about it. Probably why
(01:33):
I have so many friends that are Korean adoptees is
because most of this happened in the seventies and eighties,
which is pretty much my generation, hence my age group.
Especially when you go to Korea, there are now tons
of adoptees that are living in Soul, thousands from all
over the world. I mean, it's pretty incredible. Today I'm
(01:54):
here in Atlanta to hear one particular story a Korean
adoptee herself a fell. The host that I heart media
Samantha McVeigh. Hi, Hi, Samantha Sis. Samantha is the host
of the show Stuff Mom Never Told You. And before
we dive into the topic, Samantha, can you briefly tell
(02:14):
our listeners what your show is about? Absolutely? Yes, I
am a host with Stuff Mom Never Told You with
any Reese and our show is all about feminism and
intersectionality of what feminism is and telling stories and telling
ideas behind different concepts, from topics about bisexuality and how
it affects women to talking about b d s M
(02:35):
and women in that industry, as well as we talked
about trauma and the me to air and what that
looks like today doing a full scale UM conversation between
the beginning, which is having we had a woman come
in and tell her story of victim come and tell
her story. Then we had a researcher come and talk
about rape kits, than we had an investigator talking about
what it looks like to have empathetic interviewing all the
(02:56):
way into having an episode with us being live with
a therapist UM talking about our own trauma. So we've
had a gamut of different things and then we can talk. Also,
we talked about women in movies, UM, badass women in movies,
whether they are the heroes or the anti heroes, and
we will talk let's see we have features about but
clause with women feature or those who identify as women
(03:19):
or non binary were very inclusive and we just want
to talk about the subjects of today and how that
is still important that we have these conversations. So that's
what my shows about. Amazing, So you go from being
lighthearted to like very deep. I mean, I feel like
today's topic will be a pretty deep one, right, just
because I mean, because it is thinking about the history
(03:41):
of the whole era of adoption and why it happened.
Do you know the history of why there's so many adoptees, right, So,
according to one of the conversations and the organizations that
I was adopted from, which was Whole International Um, they
had a beginning where the woman who created this specific
(04:02):
orphanage and she's created orphanage during the war. During the
Korean War, there was a lot of babies that were
produced through listit affairs. We can say, however whatnot. And
due to that, there were a lot of mixed race babies,
so interracial children, and due to that, they were not
accepted into the family, whether it had to do with
(04:22):
honor system, whether it's just an acceptance of being dishonored
through how they came about. So it's like cultural and
Korean right, So because of that, there was a lot
of children literally abandoned on the streets and a little um.
Somehow all of those uh produced again children that had
no homes, and this woman who was I guess had
(04:43):
come over there at that point in time doing mission
trips or whatever whatnot, um decided that she felt like
this was her calling to raise these children, and she
ended up adopting herself. I think like eight children, is
it eight? Yes? Yes, one with eleven um eight children.
So because of that level, that's where then they have
course had the sad stories on the different news shows
(05:06):
and media, and that's how I was adopted. Essentially, my
mom watched the TV show with this highlighting this woman
and what her works were, and then going from there
she decided, yeah, that her calling was to have to
adopt a child, a child from Korea, and that was
her intent as a mother, I guess. And you're not
talking about your birth mother obviously, you know about your
(05:27):
mother that raised you. Yes, growing up in the South,
it's a Southern accent. I have definitely have an accident, right,
a Noncrean name but with a Korean face, and you
have a very specific visual identity, rightly, right? How was that? So?
I think there's a lot of different factors because growing
up and in that time frame, I knew I was different,
(05:50):
but being told that I'm accepted because I'm with a
specific type of family that had notoriety, essentially in that
small community, I was kind of protected. So even though
in Atlanta right here, so I was actually further from Atlanta,
about an hour and a half north in the mountains
of Georgia. We are at the foothills of the Appalachian Trail. Like, yeah,
(06:11):
that that's how far up um very small town. Literally,
the only person of color in that town, especially in
that school, outside of some of the immigrant families coming
from Guatemala or Mexico who were already kind of but
in terms of Asian, you're the only one one at
that point in time, only one with an Asian face. Yes,
(06:31):
especially in the schools in my generation. I think there
were other people there that I just didn't know about,
didn't you know, have any connections to until later in life. Um.
I think there was one other girl who came in
in my middle school time frame, and she was half Filipino,
and I met her and I was like, oh, hey, hey,
what's up. And that looked and then the other parts
that was there was a shame factor in having someone
similar to me because I desperately needed to feel like
(06:53):
I need to be white to fit in. So it's
a whole different like breakdown. And honestly, it was until
probably the last ten years that I really and have
been struggling with trying to find my identity as an
Asian woman, trying to figure out what that is for
me and um, trying to figure that out in the
world that I grew up in, especially today's politics, is
(07:14):
very obvious that myself and my family are two sides.
Before we dive into that, we want to start from
the beginning. How old were you when you were so,
I was turning seven when I came into the US,
you were essentially an older child. Yes, Um, I was
placed in the orphanage when I was four five. I
(07:34):
lived there for a couple of years. Uh. And before that,
your birth mother, I was actually with my grandmother birth grandmother,
so I was pretty quickly whatever issues may have been
gone down from what I understand, my mother and my
father biological mother and father divorced, uh and she got remarried.
And typically within Critorian traditions, stepchildren do not stay with
(08:00):
stoually not with a mother. You can't even be a
legal like citizen without having like a father's name, right,
So at that point I was given to the care
of my grandmother, who at that point in time did
keep me for a couple of years and raised me
for a couple of years, but found it too hard
and too stressful, and so then I was placed in
an orphanage at that point in time that had connections
um with the international adoption agency. So you were at
(08:22):
at the orphanage for at least three years before you
found a family to adopt you, But two to three
years I'm gonna estimate, because honestly, those time frames are
so smeared in my head that I can't quite remember
all of the yes, just because some of our listeners
might not know. Obviously, as an older child trying to
(08:43):
get adopted, you were one of the lucky ones, very
very love absolutely because there are thousands and thousands of
children that were in these orphanages, and if you're older,
it's just you had no chances. The time with in
the orphanage was actually traumatic, not necessary. Well, actually there
was several things, but a lot of that also had
to do with the fact that the older children that
(09:03):
were there were very angry and very aggressive and very
territorial and rightly so. Also with the fact that there's
a lot of mishaps that happened and obviously a lot
of abuse, yes, and then that would be a conversation
to have. But like things that are opened up, and
then the older you get, the more likely you're going
(09:24):
to succumb to that environment. Anyway, So growing up, as
the small amount of time that I did, it made
absolute sense that these these these girls were really really
angry girls, and so a dramatic part of my growing
up was trying to figure out how to survive that
in itself. So I was I think the entire time
(09:45):
that I was there, I think I was the third
person to be adopted, and every single one of us,
I think, were adopted out of the country, mostly in
the US. And you got adopted into your American family,
And did you have any siblings? Uh? There, So again
that's kind of one of those conversations. I remember an
older brother, but I can't quite place anything. Okay, So
(10:07):
in my actually I do have three older siblings today
they you are biological children to my adopted family. So
I'm the youngest, but between myself and the youngest sibling,
who was my brother, were only seven months apart. Okay,
so you gotta adopted into this family, and how was
it growing up with your family? So obviously there's a
lot of good, a lot of bad. I think for
(10:28):
the first year, I was just trying to communicate from
what my was told, and I do remember a lot
of things happening, but my mother always lost it a
few times because the fighting between myself and the younger
brother were so intense, and because there's no way to
communicate with me what was happening. It was a whole
kind of a breakdown, especially due to communication. So it
(10:50):
was a really interesting time. There was a lot of
conversations for me and trying to figure out how to
fit in, especially to a family that's already been establish
before I got there. So were the youngest, Yes, I
was the youngest, and they've already been established for this
past seven years as this family. Okay, I can't not
ask this question, but why did they decided to adopt? Right? So,
my mom, for whatever reason, knew without a doubt, after
(11:13):
I guess watching this that she would adopt an older
child that was always her intent, knowing that that was
one of the biggest needs. So that's incredible. Yeah, So
it really was the look of the draw because essentially,
when it comes down to it, she had wanted to
adopt before I was born. Um, but because they were
so young, and because all of these things, they were
advised to foster first. So for a while they fostered
(11:36):
over a hundred kids, I want to say, before they
adopted me in the US American American children. Yes, um.
And so when everything kind of fell into places when
I was actually at the orphanage, and then why did
he decide on a Korean child? Was it that commercial
one of that specific talking about miss Holt and her mission,
that was a very reason that they felt like they
(11:57):
should adopt. It wasn't necessarily, um, about just a child.
It was about a Korean child from this UH organization essentially.
That's it's crazy how that works actually, right. Okay, So
(12:21):
growing up in the mountains of Georgia as the only
Asian faced kid. Can you go a little bit deeper
on that. So it was a lot of one of you.
Like I said, I was one of the lucky ones
that I got accepted in because my family was sort
(12:42):
of known, um, I's adorable. Look at me. Come on,
And I was gonna say, if you see my little
pictures from way back when, yeah, I'm too cute not
to like come on guys. But yeah, no, they It
was not that hard for me to find make friends. Uh.
And I think a lot of that had to do
with kind of not a fetishism necessarily, but in a
(13:03):
kind of curiosity of hey, she's different, you look different,
let's talk to you. Maybe you're They were intrigued by you. Yes, yes.
And also you have to remember I still spoke Korean
while I started kindergarten. Used to do you still speaks Korean?
Now I don't, so I got lost. I even took
three semesters of Korean trying to relearn, and I cannot
(13:26):
grasp that language. To the point mild teacher bless her heart,
who came from Soul to teach at the university, and
I said, bless your heart, can we talk about how southern?
That was, right, I just said it. But she came
to from South Korea to teach at the University of Georgia,
and she gave me excuses. She's like, you're an adoptee,
I get it whatever, And I was like, m She's like,
when you know you're a baby, and I was like, no, seven,
(13:47):
she goes. She just she was really kind of shocked,
and I was like, I don't I don't get it.
I've been trying to learn and I'm just struggling. So
and I was literally the second worst in that class
outside of a white girl. Did you just like block
it from your memory? A lot of it and a
lot of it has to do with trauma and a
lot and like I've had therapy upon therapy, therapy is
(14:10):
good for you, just in case you'all need to know.
It is great. Get it, do it. Upon trying to
figure out what is this? Why am I like this?
Why can't I go past this hurdle? Because even when
I speak, even though I had that Southern accents, there's
moments that I trip up on words because of the
Korean dialect is very different from so like the elden
eld in the RS. I still mix that up even
though I haven't spoken Korean and over thirty years, it's
(14:33):
some kind of like hidden day in your brain. But
I'm amazing when it comes to Spanish, I can pick
sure up. But yeah, like I can pick things up
pretty quickly on other languages, just not Korean. That definitely
has to do with some sort of a lot of traumatic.
So a lot of that, to say is growing up.
And my parents and I have talked about lots of
times I should have gone to therapy. I didn't. I
(14:55):
was doing okay um, And I did like I said,
I just did really well. I always grew up understanding
that I should be grateful and that not necessarily that
you know, anyone told me I owed anything, but feeling
like I owed something because I was one of the
fews that left. I was one of one of the
few that was old enough to remember all the why
oh thank god this happened. But yeah, I think growing
(15:19):
up was really interesting because I did. I had to
try to find myself in a place where no one
knew how. I had no mentors, I had no one
to talk to you, I didn't know exactly what it
felt like, and not realizing that I wasn't white um
and that yes I would sit and watch TV and
sit and watch things that the real world outside of
(15:40):
my small town that I'm like, man, I wish I
could have that, but I didn't have that access and
being like, man, it would be easier if I was white.
I remember coming home being teased by dumb kids, as
we know, and my mom again bless their hearts, telling me, oh,
they're just jealous, when actually they're racist. And I just
didn't understand that what we're of kind of things that
(16:01):
they were saying, Oh, you know, the whole Chinese he
has all of those things coming at me with slanted eyes,
coming at me, screaming like yeah yeah, and pretending like
I don't know English. Um. It got really weird as
I was growing up dating because I remember, again predominantly white.
(16:24):
There were no black people in my community, not growing up,
not not at all. Um. And I remember someone talking
we came to Atlanta to do uh competition of sorts.
This dude we were all like just frossing at the
mouth over him. He was a beautiful, beautiful black boy.
We were just like black man. We were like, yes,
(16:44):
he has beautiful let's go talk to him. And of
course our white guy friends were racist as hell talking
about all these things about them. And I'm getting offended
because I'm like, hey, right, like I'm are just like
treating you like you were, and then when I would
say something. I remember there was this girl who was
(17:07):
trying to be one of the boys, was like, you know,
I don't believe in interracial relationships either, and she's like,
there's just something something, And I kind of looked at
her because a week before she was trying to send
me up with her cousin, and I went, you do
know that I'm not white, and if I date your cousin,
that's interracial. When she had to kind of stopped talking,
her first face turned red. But in understanding that I
(17:28):
don't fit in this, I don't fit in that, and
I am definitely a model minority in their eyes and
without them knowing what that is. But you were like confused. Yeah,
so a lot of confusion, trying to grow up understanding
that this is wrong. The way my family my friends
are talking about black people is completely wrong, but in
their minds is just oh, you know, we're just talking
to her friends. That whole like modern racism and the
(17:52):
microaggressions that are there that I'm I'm seeing it because
I'm very aware I'm not white, and and it's kind
of one of those things that, yeah, and growing up
and trying to be trying to hide like that's that
was part of the things, like shrinking away not only
as a woman, but as purchase. Yeah, oh, absolutely absolutely,
(18:12):
And I will say like again, I definitely grew up
knowing that my parents love me and support me and
see them at see me as a daughter, and I
love him to death, but growing up and becoming very
aware that we were slowly separating that I no longer
believe the same things because my experiences were different from
them already. Whether I'm getting looked at because I'm coming
(18:33):
in with a white family, I'm getting looked at with
questions when I'm you know, about my name. Even so,
it was as a whole interesting dynamic to try to
adjust and then coming into my adulthood and trying to
be an advocate and trying to be someone who's socially
conscious and trying to speak awareness about womenim color and intersectionality,
(18:54):
as well as the fact that I realized as an
Asian woman, I'm privileged as well, even though I'm ill
one of the ones that are affected, I'm more privileged
in that scope of things, and trying to come out
and have a conversation about what does this look like
in reality and what does this look like for an
advocate and then not and then feeling shame because I
(19:15):
can't find my identity and I don't know my identity myself.
That's probably the reason why you decided to do social work,
and that's how you came across your profession and why
you're such an advocate, and probably your goal is to
be a spokesperson for these topics and issues. Can you
talk a little bit about how you decided, Okay, this
(19:37):
is like what I'm gonna do. I think growing up,
I didn't know what I could do, and I just
knew that I couldn't. It wasn't the norm. I'm not
the teacher, I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a doctor,
any of those things. Um From my family, the education
was not the forefront. Not not that they discouraged it.
They did not. They were so proud for the things
(19:57):
that I've done. But my parents, them elves, didn't go
to college and so it's not one of those things
that they think it's priority. Not all of the siblings
went to college and everybody's great and fine, as in fact,
those who didn't go to college and make more money
than me when I was a social work and I
was very upset about this. It's like, I don't understand.
But I came in to college knowing that the one
(20:20):
thing I needed to do was help and whatever that
looked like. The one thing I had to do is
I had to give back, and I had to give
back to those who couldn't do it for themselves. Again,
I came up growing up knowing that I owed something.
You always had that feeling of wanting to give back. Yes,
I always had the feeling that I had to. That
was kind of elliott because it was just an obligation.
(20:42):
This is what I know. The truth is, and the
truth of this is I am lucky. There are others
and they need help to It's kind of one of
those things. And going into social work, my passion has
always been working for children and women. Obviously, it's kind
of the thing that I grew up doing. I worked
as a child abuse investigator for a couple of years
and then I work. I've worked as a placement specialists,
(21:05):
which gets treatment to kids who are in the juvenile system.
So it's definitely something that I have always been very
very passionate about, and no, I knew nothing else in
my life honestly coming into this world knowing that I
had to fight for something because again, I've seen too
many people who can't fight for themselves or are not
(21:27):
able to speak for themselves. And so it's kind of
one of those things that I have this privilege. Now
I'm going to use it. I have to use it.
How about your identity? That is the question, because that's
(21:50):
the most important thing because right now, how do you
identify yourself? Have you try to go back and figure
out your identity because this is like always a thing
with a lot of my Korean and optive friends. It's
always about like going back and figuring out your identity,
and that's and then that's a really big question for me.
It's kind of I'm very analytical obviously. I think that's
(22:11):
part of being social work all all the time, analyzing everything,
which my friends and family love, by the way, Um,
but yeah, I just kind of keep going back in
I don't know how to be what I am. A
lot of that has to do it. There's a little
bit of hostility when it comes down to every race.
It doesn't matter. So it's kind of like I'm not white,
(22:32):
but I'm supposed to be grateful for the opportunities that
the white people gave me. I'm Asian, but yet I've
never grown up, grown up and don't understand Asian culture
as well as I should. Maybe a little angry too, right.
And then the minute I say that I'm I can't
speak Korean. I I was graced by white people, I've
been dismissed. Immediately They're like, oh, you're, oh, okay, And
(22:53):
that's kind of in that conversation. And then even in like,
obviously I'm not black, so I'm not part of that
community yet either, so you know, it is what it is. Yeah,
it really has been a question of Okay, So I'm
sitting here talking about taking your identity, being your voice
and being bigger and representing something and then you can't.
(23:13):
So it's kind of like, I but I don't know
what that looks like. And even when it comes down
to when I am grateful of the opportunities that I
have been, I'm better that I can't understand what my
ethnicity is about. I'm a little bit of that. And
my parents, again, they tried, but being isolated in a
(23:34):
small count town in the mountains, there's nothing they could do.
They think they did. They did. They took me to
a picnic that was hosted by the adoption agency and
it was apparently a great success, but because it was
so far away and they had so many children, it
was a one time thing and they really did try.
But because of that, I lost that, And of course
again with that came the shame factor of I don't
(23:54):
want to be Asian. I know what I really want
to be is white, because I'm inundated in this culture
that says this is the best way to be in
Let's be honest. Yeah, great, that would be awesome. Why
it is great? Right now? Right? Um? And that's kind
of one of those conversations that I'm like, I don't
know what to do with myself because I don't know
what I can represent fully without feeling like I'm faking ship.
(24:18):
So that was when you were growing up. But what
about like right now? And have you ever tried to
go back to your Korean identity? So right now? Like again,
I tried in college and draw like I'm going to
learn Korean. I want to. I want to be a
part of this conversation. I want to I want to
know about myself. Um, and even now again as an adult.
I dig deep, but a lot of the problems for
(24:40):
me is the trigger and the PTSD that comes from
the trauma that has happened in Korea makes me very
very anxious and to the point that it stops me
so even like trying to research, because I went through
about of researching my own name, my own history, like
it came out with nothing. But I have this fear
of going like I I have a conversation and thought
process like I should try this, But also there is
(25:03):
that level of I should be grateful. Why am I
looking into this? But being grateful and wanting to know
what your history is and what your background is like
two different things, right it is? And you know what,
like a lot of my Korean adoptive friends, there's there's
I wouldn't say two kinds, but like two different um
I guess thought process are two different types of people.
(25:25):
There's some that are like super eager that go to
Korea find out and figure out like where the family
and meet the family and go through this whole process
which is very personal and emotional and almost like invasive
emotionally think about it. And then there's this other side
that probably grew up. I mean it has nothing to
(25:48):
do with like how they grew up, but they just
they just clam up and they just can't. Like there's
there's one particular friend that even at the thought of
like Korean culture, she starts falling. And you know what
I mean literally because I think I've gone beyond that
because that's where I was. And again, this has a
lot to do just memories of things that were traumatic.
(26:08):
Again for me, I do have a lot of trauma
based in Korea. I had a lot of trauma based
in the orphanation I have, and a lot of trauma
based on an abusive biological family. So there was definitely
there's a lot of negativity and that like anxiousness that
comes over me. That's what kind of does put a
barrier for me to try to go over there. I
mean there's still parts of my head I'm like this
(26:29):
could help, but this could be like all right, So
there's this whole level of where do I want to go,
how do I think about And again, therapies wonderful people
UM and that's one of the big things that I
have to talk through a lot because I've went through
probably three or four therapists UM intensive therapist trying to
get to that root of the PTSC and the triggering
(26:52):
because obviously social work I would get triggered often often
because of similar stories to my families or clients, and
trying to unpack that has been such a problem in general,
and like the way it has affected me emotionally and mentally,
all of that that is it is it's terrifying for
(27:13):
me to try to figure out that truth. Knowing that
I can't learn Korean because there's some type of mental
block trying to protect me from something also pushed it back, like, oh, ship,
do I really really want to know? Because the things
that I do remember are not pretty there because you
were an older child, we have like these specific types
of memories connected to the Korean culture. But also obviously
(27:35):
there's this draw right right, you can't escape that. It's true,
like it's everything when it comes to Korean culture. I
will tell you even with food, Um, I have triggering foods,
Like I will taste something and it brings back such
a sensory memory for me that it's shocking, like it
sets me back to like it takes my breath away
(27:57):
because I realized, holy fuck, I remember this moment of
this and not realizing it until I have to sit
there and process through and be like, Okay, this is
why this stays familiar, This is why this and I
stayed away from it from for a long time because
because it was trauma, because I like what I'm like
if I take the wrong step. Of course, again it's
I've come like I'm about to be forty this year,
(28:19):
who um coming into that. I've grown a lot and
learned a lot, and I have found steps to calm
myself to backtrack in those moments. Um, But it does.
It's a it's a fear factor of what the hell
am I to walk into? What memory is about to open?
Because I've had moments even in college, even like five
years ago, where I'm laid out and I can't I
(28:42):
can't be touched, don't talk to me, don't look at me.
So it's just like a whole different level of what
am I willing to face? What can I face right now? Emotionally?
What am I willing to face socially because again it
feels like it's a betrayal to my adopted family to
a certain extent um. And then what am I willing
to face as a professional, like as a social worker
(29:03):
then and now as a person who speaks for hopefully
an identity for completely but with representing of a community
in itself. So it's kind of like, oh, ship, here
we go. What do we do? It's just like taking
it one step at a time, right, And it is
it's a whole level of Okay, what am I ready
to face? Essentially breaking down what's what? And I will
(29:26):
with the new administration. There's a lot of things that
I have to impact in that and even the conversation
about the adoptees and the immigration status and looking at
that and where people being sent back to their you know,
actual countries they're born where they were born from even
though they've never lived there, and stuff like that. But
(29:47):
it's just like, oh my god, there's so many things
that's just and it just impacts. Yeah, it is, and
it's again filling like what the hell? How do I help?
How my hair? Why am I hair's personal story for you?
And how can I represent my people? But who are
might be people anyway? Right? Right? Damn? Yeah, So it's
a whole it's a whole thing. And I think again, um,
(30:10):
one of the big more important things for me is
a get self care and you know, you're not talking
about all the things that could lay me out. And
I say that, you know, in the minute, like depressive personality,
I try to commit suicide, you know, a couple of
times as a child, because I was so freaking confused
about the trauma that I was in doing and the
(30:31):
triggering that was happening, that I didn't understand what was happening,
and my parents didn't either, and they didn't know, you know,
they're very religious people, really hoping that we could pray
it away and that just didn't happen, obviously, And with
that growing up and being okay, this is not weakness
and trying to like recover from Okay, I'm I'm okay,
this has gotten me. It's gotten me. I'm I can
(30:52):
feel this, let me, let me feel this, and then
let me go through this. And it's a whole different
process of like, Okay, I can't deal with this right now,
a step back, or I can't deal with this right now,
but I need help, I need people in my life,
and this is a whole and just embracing all of
those elements, right and you know what, for what it's worth,
(31:12):
the prayers did work, because look, at you now, You're amazing,
Thank you all. She's my first friends coming for me.
So not to like bring you back into like crazy
memory who I'm like, oh my gosh, am I gonna
trigger you. I mean all jokes aside. Obviously you still
love cream, right, so freaking good. But I of course
(31:39):
made you your favorite cream, didn't chap cha? This is
the only reason I said yes, Oh come on, I mean,
of course your bubbly personality. Of course you haven't even
met me before. They were like, there's a chef who
she can cook something? Yeah, okay, okay, and you don't
have to tell you anything else. So chapter, what is
(32:00):
your memory on chop J When did you have it
for the first time? That's a good question because I
don't know. We don't even I don't know. I will
tell you. This was a food that I ate and
I was familiar, Like I was like, okay, I remember this,
I remember this taste, yes, yes, And I'm like, I
remember what this taste is like. And it was a
nice memory. It was one of those like, man, I
(32:21):
wish I could remember all the food that I us see,
like the only members I really have is um that
the like being yeah, as well as uh tons and
tons of kimch. It's also very like iconic Korean dish
at that time, during like the seventies and eighties. Um
(32:42):
it was it was like a special dish that like
the children really love. Yes, I loved it. I remember
being so excited eating that. Did you eat? Do you
eat it? Now? I don't know, so I haven't gotten
that because typically when I'm at the Korean restaurants, I
usually go for like bogol gee because I love all
of that and all of the kimchi. But yeah, it's
it's funny because I was telling Marcy, my producer, about
(33:03):
this dish that you chose chop chi. Chop Chi is
obviously a very traditional Korean dish, but no Koreans actually
like it as their like favorite dish. Like growing up,
growing up, I hated chop ti. A lot of Korean
people don't like white chop tip, but a lot of
white people and a lot of Americans love chop It's
(33:27):
like their favorite Korean thing. And I know for a fact,
if I make this for Americans, it's it's all pleaser.
It's like their favorite thing ever American. When it comes
to that, I'm like yes, please, I will eat that.
These are the things that I like, and I love
the last nettles. I mean it's great. It's it's sweet,
it's salty, it has all of those elements like well balanced,
very American palette fits right probably, which was I was like, oh,
(33:49):
I'm cool with this, okay. So chap chay is one
of those dishes. It's a party food, you know, you
make it on like New Year's Day, for someone's birthday.
It's celebration. It's my birthday. It is your birthday too,
not at all, but I'm eating it pretending like it's
my birthday. Chop Ta is a glass noodle dish. It's
made with sweet potatoes and there's a ton of vegetables
(34:10):
that's like saltad and it's in like it's dressed in soy,
sesame oil, some sugar. So it's like sweet and salty.
It's delicious and it's super healthy too. It smells so okay,
go for it. Oh my god, you're sitting here talking
about talking now we're eating, y'all. Y'all just watching. It's
(34:30):
not that creepy. It's my favorite thing in the world.
I love watching people eat. Oh my god. I'm so
happy right now, I'm talking about my mouthful. M hm. Also,
you don't know this about me, but when I get
really happy and start eating, I usually start dancing and humming.
(34:52):
So I'm trying to trying to resist from whatever the
fuck get food. I can't be that girl like people
make fun of me because I get really said. And
you know what, I don't usually eat with my guests,
but I'm gonna eat with you. I'm real glad you are,
(35:15):
because that's that feels weird to me. Also, slurping is
a great thing. Mmm. You know, because I grew up
in the American culture of slopping is not a great thing. Yeah,
you're not supposed to because it's considered rude, right right.
And then yeah, in Asian culture, it's all about the slurping.
(35:35):
It's important to slurp because it's bringing the flap area.
I don't know how to do that. I'm not gonna
lie without actually like just spinning out the food, So
I'm not gonna try sure a moment right now. Okay,
I'm gonna try slurping the food, and if it all
falls out, I'm gonna start crying. Wait at it, You're
(35:57):
natural that was not unnatural. Don't lie to me, ester.
What do you think? Do you like it? Oh? I know?
I love it because everything. I'm not going to cravey
this for days. I'm going to go to all the
Buford market places. And it's funny that you said, like
when people make this dish, they make like a ship
ton of it, because I didn't. I mean, I was
trying to make a small portion, but I think it's
(36:18):
impossible to make a small portion of chopped tip, and
I made this like crazy bowl of it. And obviously
all the leftovers are at Jess and Chad's place, and
they're gonna be the most excited people forever. I mean,
if you haven't encountered this dish, I feel like it's
a gateway Korean dish to like all Korean foods, because
(36:40):
it's just it's just so good. It's it's like, there's
no way in hell I can make this, but it
feels so simple, and now you have to make it.
That's a challenge cooking Korean food. I'm sure that's going
to be another level level of mental One of the
memories I do have growing up my grandmother, my biologues
with grandmother owned a restaurant. Wow smells, and that's that's
(37:06):
why you have so much connection that absolutely because I
don't I didn't realize it then, but yeah, I remember
it was like a restaurant, bar kept with type of
thing that she had, and I was always in the back,
hiding away from the adults, but smelling everything, probably tasting.
So that was that's probably why you have such a
connection to It isn't absolutely. As we're eating this, I
(37:29):
definitely am having a moment of like, yeah, this is familiar,
but for it, it's definitely one of those moments of
like this is a disconnect on the each side of
like this is a different life, so it feels disconnected
and trying to figure out where the fund did this
memory come from? Where what was it? So it's an
interesting aspect for sure, because as you know before you
(37:50):
met me, I love food and I'm very excited about
all the foods um. So part of that to me
is really interesting that I have a connection, an emotional connection,
because I'm not I have heard that about chefs. It's
all about it's all about it's always about a specific
memory that brings you back to home and what that is.
(38:12):
And for me, that's how I cook too, And a
lot of my food is obviously very traditional and it's
a memory and it's a connection to my heritage. And
I'd love to unravel one dish at a time with you,
if you if you'd like, Even if that brings out tears,
I'm gonna say, I'm going to do this as like
future episodes, and you're just gonna cook be more food
and I'm gonna cry into it. Yeah, man, someone flying
(38:35):
in New York, I'm going the food. Well, you have
to visit me in New York, and I would love
to do this with you, and you know, go deeper. Yeah, absolutely,
I think anything, especially when it comes to race, especially
when it comes to trauma, any of that, there's so
many faces to a person's story and the level of
what it is, and then trying to understand each other
(38:56):
on different levels. It might not be the same reasoning
or same past experiences, with the feelings and emotions are
very similar and very very reminiscent of each other, and
I think that's really important. And this is just a
surface level. And remember in the beginning of this episode,
I literally said, this is a topic that I wanted
to cover and It's probably going to happen multiple times
(39:17):
in my series because this is just the first time,
and there's too many layers for us to cover in
what thirty forty minutes. There's always a part two of
part three, at a part four exactly. And again, everybody
story is very, very different, whether it was a baby
coming along and trying to find themselves and finding their
family or not. So Yeah, Samantha, thank you so much
(39:39):
for sharing your story. How can we find you and
your podcast? Yes again, it's Stuff Mom Never Told You.
We are with I Heart formally of how stuff works.
You can find us on the interwebs That Moms Stuff
on Twitter as well as Stuff Mom Never Told You
on Instagram and on Facebook. Yea, yea, come see us
(40:00):
and that's our show. Thanks for listening. If you like
what you heard, please subscribe and leave us a five
star review. Get Down with Kaytown is a production of
I Heart Radio and was created by our executive producer,
Christopher Hasiotis and me as to Troy follow me on
all sociare Media at toy Bites and I'd also like
to thank our producer, editor and mixer Marcy to Pina
(40:21):
for more podcasts from i heart Radio, visit the i
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