February 13, 2025 • 33 mins
Sometimes a seasoned bus driver will miss a stop.
Sometimes a master baker will burn a pie.
And even iconic rappers make weak ass songs that everyone hates.
Kevin and Casey discuss the worst Nas song ever to be recorded. Is this song unsung or or should it be un-rappped?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Come morning, give it a chance. Give it
a chance. Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Go morning, give it a you want to give it
a chance, Give it a chance, give it a chance.
Just give it. Hi, Kevin Devine, Hi, case ready for
(00:22):
another omar?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I am so ready. I you know, I just want
to tell everybody Casey and everybody else listening. They are
doing just everywhere around me today. But the giant saw
circular saws that they put in the ground and Fourth
Avenue in Brooklyn is getting a fucking.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Rock old fashioned construction.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yes, so if you hear it, honestly, get over it.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Get over it.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
We bring this to you live from the streets of Philadelphia. Sorry,
it's not true.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
What we in Brooklyn is called Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well where I am in Brooklyn South b K right. Hm,
it's close. Like I'm closer to Philly than I am
to you, than a.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Lot of people, than a lot of people, then a
lot of people. You're closer to Philadelphia than I I
mean Philadelphia. That know, a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thank you, and I do appreciate the corrections.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Call your janet because we're in for it. Today.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Wait a minute, call my Janet, call your Janet because
we're in for it today.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Oh that's not a time. Sorry, Okay, I know everything
seems like a hint.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I actually am speaking to Janet after the our taping today.
Let's know, how about wow, I should.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Tell you you have this? Do you? First? You have
this therapy sash.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yes, musical therapy session, and then we also are therapy
sessions are like we conduct a musical, we sing back
and forth, we do Hamilton, yeah mostly Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Speaking of Hamilton, we are tackling a song in the
category of rap, which is Hamilton is one of the
greatest raps of all day.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
No one has ever been more excited to hear that, Manuel, Miranda.
But you just said that's codifying lin Manuel. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So when when you think of the greats of rappers? Uh,
because I want you. I want to just set it
up like a similar sort of two or two episodes
ago a Revolution number nine, where this is a very
good artist with a with a song that people think
is the worst of their catalog. So I want to see,
just like, who are some if not your favorite, but
(02:27):
just who the world thinks are sort of the top.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Rap rappers I mean, who who does the world think
of the top rappers right now?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
All times?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Okay, it's Kendrick all time. I guess people would say,
like Biggie Jay Z to Park. If it was like
O G Status, I guess people would say like, oh, man, No,
for me, it's run DMC. For me, it's the then
public enemy. For me it's and then some people it's like, oh,
for me, it's that Snead O'Connor song on Universal Mother.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's it. That's all we're doing.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I kidding, we could do that, we wanted to do so. Yeah.
And then like I guess, you know. And then of course,
in the early two thousands, controversial but undeniable, you got
Slim Shady Eminem feuding with ic P. So I got
something of them in there in Saint Clown Pass, Clint Eastwood, Gorillas.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I might you meant actually like.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Glow Rilla.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Wow, look at you stretching the person that you have
not mentioned. But I think is you know you you
you talked about their contemporaries, is nas Oh God, of course, yeah, no, No,
I think like might be.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
The best of all time, right records exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You hit upon the category really well, like you hit
all the people that I would I would also put
up there, and I think, NOAs is this? You know,
like I think a lot of people are like, he's
the when he did it the best, he did it
the best? Yes, yes, And then you know, I think
some people feel like some of his work is tapered
off and some of our newer records are actually kind
(04:09):
of cool or like there's there's songs on it that
are really fun. So he's always kind of stayed relevant
and like a favorite for certain people. But there's one song.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I know what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I do is it?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I know I can. It's not be what I want
to be, which I kind of like that song. I
think it's sweet. I think so okay, but it's not
that song. Okay, what is it?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So this is sort of like going out of our usual,
like it's a song that everybody knows. I don't think
people know.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
This song, but everybody knows NAS.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Everyone knows NAS, and I think that this is It's
So I listened to like just the opening of it,
and I turned it off immediately because I was like,
I gotta talk to Kevin about this.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I can't even listen to this any further until I.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Speak to Kevin. Yeah, that's and that's exactly how I felt.
And I don't even want to continue talking right now
because I want us to listen to it and to
dive in. Is that did I give a good precursor
you lest you turned them out?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'm I'm out and I'll see you next week. No, Yeah,
that's that's a great. It's a great. It's a great.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
It's a great. Okay, So, without further ado, this song
is called big Girl by nos.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
All right, so I guess I gotta look that up.
Is it g I R L?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It is the traditional spelling?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
All right?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Both?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
All right?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Seek sexy s got whoa you?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Big?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Good? First of all, to anyone that did play along
as we ask you to and go and listen to that,
I kind of want to issue an apology. I hope
you were not in a public space. I hope you
were not like at your job. We probably should have
said an s F dub.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Also, at the bottom, it says you know when you
read it along with the words, when you read the
lyrics along with the the track on the streaming platform
of my choice. At the bottom it says report a
concern and I was like, yeah, I will report several
I'm concerned case. I don't know where you want to start.
I know Nostradamus was a controversial moment for Nas. This
(06:15):
was kind of like the Nayber. This is like the
bottom of the trough for him in the first part
of his career, before the jay Z Beef, Big Nights things.
He comes back with Ether, He's like thought of as
it's like, you know, woke him back up. This is
I don't know, homie. The floor is yours, the world
is yours. Like another no, wow, But you're really good, dude.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
I know.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It's not just Kurt. It's not just Elliott, it's not
just Janet, it's not just Leonard, it's not just Shanade.
It's also like I have deep, deep cuts.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah. So yeah, So I always kind of have a
problem and it's not just being you know, an elder now,
but like I've always sort of like had an issue
with like when songs get too sexual and I feel
that way with like songs like put it in my
Mouth and like I remember being like the first time
(07:07):
I heard it, being like, oh that's funny, and then
like I can't ever put this song on. Kanye does
this a lot. Kanye goes like like one track on
every album he does one where it's just like overly
sexual and I don't really know who that's for, Like
it's just not really my cup. But uh Nas is
often a very good lyricist that makes really good choices,
(07:32):
and I kind of think that his choices in this
are really I don't know, lame. Like there's even like
the second verse, there's a section where I'm so bored,
Like it's it's like even his delivery is just like
and then when went to the zoo went then I
took you girl, and I took you to poo, took
you to the nice thing, like it was just like
(07:52):
his delivery is like quiet.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like you take it to the zoo, like he lost,
I do like that, take it to the ice cream you.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Don't eat daar and get your rice dream but blizz Yeah,
but like well that almost speaks to in that section
like a loss of conviction right like and even him
and himself, he was like what do I even kind
of do it just like mumbling through it, dude. I look,
(08:32):
our show is called give it a Chance, Yes, right,
m hm, So what I will say here is given
that we have covered in the past on our program
some questionable to not even questionable proficiency with respect to
what might be loosely categorized as hip hop delivery. Wise, right,
(08:55):
this is garbage. But it is even in the passage
you identify, which is a little bit of an autopilot
delivery passage. This dude's so good at you know, the
sort of like mechanical part of hip hop, the like
syllabic construction, the like how things the interior rhyme, the
how did things fall with they're supposed to fall it
(09:15):
even when it's like one part autopilot another part like
abject nonsense and yeah, like over sexualized. It's like we
were having a conversation actually off Chancey about you brought
up a lyric that I love from a band. We
were talking about a record, des Parcedos, that Paola record.
But there's that line about sort of like the world
(09:36):
at large where they talk about it's a locker room
of CFOs making racist jokes, which is like a great
picture of exactly the people. You're like, fucking stop ruining
everything anyway, And if you don't like that, Chances, you know,
love it. Or leave it. But I will just say
there is like in that there's this like you know,
(09:57):
interior rhyme, syllabic construction. How do you kind of like
deliver the message the best way A dude like Nas
could do that shit in his sleep, right, the construction
of words and how to get that raft across the river.
It just so happens that in this instance he's using
those skills for the forces of evil and that hyper
sexualized thing. That's why I brought the this Parsadoes thing up.
It's locker room bullshit, like who the fuck cares if
(10:21):
you're I could see being like fourteen or something and
being like, whoa he said she creamed your jeans?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
The problem is Nas wasn't fourteen when he wrote this,
and neither is. I mean, perhaps there's an argument that
we made in the case of Kanye, there's other shit
going on there that's about, like, I don't know, some
sort of arrested development, some sort of there's mental health
things in the picture there. But I also think part
of some of these subcultures is actually any like male
(10:50):
dominated sub or not subculture is like machismo, right, like
showing yourself to be this like, and part of that
is like some sort of fucking belt notch pelt wearing
conquest thing. The thing I'm confused about this is if
that indicates I'm always like it's such a bummer, If
that actually resonates as sexy, yeah, but also that maybe
(11:11):
that sounds like I'm shaming people and everyone can get
off on it.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Of course we touched upon that with Butterfly right and
give Butterfly over. This is that there's an enthusiasm rapping.
It's better rapping, much better rapping, and people who earned
it now there's there's a there's an enthusiasm with them
and with most like fourteen year olds who rap like
this where they're just discovering it and they're like the thing,
(11:34):
the chancey I'll give it is that they're having fun
doing it, and that's infectious. Like eminem when he's like
when he was younger and he was like, you know
the stuff that he's saying, which I feel like he's
still does some of it, some of it he doesn't.
He's like young and he's having fun and that's infectious, right,
Like youth is so infectious. None of this feels like
he's having fun with it. And even like the moments
(11:55):
where like you're you. I am impressed with some of
his yeah, like you said, like his rhyming or just
even his flows, but it seems like he's not even
committing to it, so like why did like why make it?
Like it feels like a demo that he was like,
I guess we'll put it out.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I think the difference between someone like Eminem at the
in like nineteen ninety nine, especially those first two records
where it's really leaning heavily into the like shock thing,
and the first record is funnier than the second record.
I think it's by the second record, like more psychodrama
starts to enter the picture with Eminem, but none of
that stuff. Even when he's talking about sex, it's like
(12:30):
cartoonish and in some ways like part of the joke,
like he's kind of like I don't think, I don't know.
I kind of don't know much of Eminem's music after
like two thousand and two, except for the songs everybody
knows well, the ubiquitous singles. I don't know any full
album of his. Like my mom will randomly send our
family text thread like song of the day, and it's
(12:51):
usually like you know Buffy, Saint Marie or Joni mitchell Er.
And then every once in a while it's like an
odd curve ball from like Recovery by Eminem, No Way
to God, and.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
She's like the way your mom will send a like
song of a Day, and it is it has been
on multiple occasions, a deep Eminem cut.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
From later in his career, and it's it's non singles.
It's usually something like she sent us a song that
was like him rapping about his friend Proof that died.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I know that song and I love that song. I
can't believe your mom knows that song. It's called Difficult. Yeah,
it's so good.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
It's so funny because.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Like it's made me cry. Your mom knows that song.
I've told friends to be like can you listen to
the song? And they won't do it. Your mom? I could.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I could like talk and text my mouth. Yeah yeah,
you could walk up to her at the first chance
he open. We're gonna have which you know we'll talk
about on our next step. But no, I have no
idea what that is. I just made the first Oh yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
You can go on tour with Kevin's mom and live Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Twenty thousand seat venue. See if you can get a ticket.
They don't sell out right away. But yeah, no. So
the reason I bring that up and my mom, you know,
just shout out to Path of Vine is just to say,
it's the eminem thing I've never felt for all of
his myriad flaws and failings or things that you could
criticize like anybody, and he's got his the sexualization thing
(14:16):
in his music. Maybe later he tries like act like
sexy in a song, and I'm sure that would be
really embarrassing to listen to, like that character trying to
be sexy. But I think where he gets like, yeah,
first of all, there's the youthful sort of insustions of it,
but there's also just like it's not trying to be hot,
he's like trying to He's like making it into some
kind of like almost grotesque joke. The difference here is
(14:39):
it's like it's that same it's the same thing. I'm
not interested in in fucking rock music like Buck Cherry
or what seems cool to me when I was nine
years old about the Sunset Strip bands that by the
time I was thirteen years old was like, oh no,
that's like by the time you'd had any kind of
like conversation with a girl that was like a pu
(15:00):
us into person two and you were like, oh, actually,
like this is really fucking lame. What's confusing to me
about this that I'd love to get into with you.
There's so much happening lyrically that is capital be berserk
(15:25):
and it'll touched upon it capital C confusing. I can
start anywhere you want, or I could let you set
the table for that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The elephant in the room is you're a big girl now,
which is like a thing you say to it to
me like a to a child, like a like a
young girl. That's just like you're a big girl. Now,
you can wash your hands, you're a big girl. Now,
you could go potty. And now he's saying like you're
a big girl. Now you could have sex and it's.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Like fully grown with your hormones now. That's the second
lyric of the.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Song also has like a song on a later album,
like a few albums after this, where it's just like
about daughters and like having a daughter and it's like
actually a pretty good song and but like it's so
confusing me, don't Yeah, that's it. That's that's the one
that NAS does featuring Ed litt Ed. Yeah, he thre down,
(16:17):
he hasn't noticed, he's been gone since.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah the third sheer.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's right right on red right, it's right on murder
murder of Ed read red one. Uh he he he
has been quiet, but.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Sorry I threw you up. NAS has a song about
daughters a few albums later, talking to a little to
a woman this way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
So it's it's like it's like it's also like who
told him that he could sing? It's like when it's
actually like what you know, you know when Eminem sings
and it's just like, you know, it's it's so odd,
Like there's certain rappers that Kanye does it too, although
Kanye like auto tunes of the time now, but there's
been times he didn't and you're like, okay ah, but yeah,
(17:05):
you're a big girl now.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's almost like master p or something.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It's like singing yeah may say.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah. I feel like that's kind of the vibe that's
happening here because Eminem's kind of like it's a chorus
and I'm saying it now, right, you know, that's at
least he's got like there's like a melody.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, but he does like a high end low for it.
It's like it's like seems so like affected and panned,
like oh yeah, you know, it's like thickened. This is
so odd and yeah, masterpiece of good comp for it.
But I don't know where this song is supposed to
play because it's like not totally a club song. It's like,
(17:47):
are you just like was he like, oh my my
friends are going to listen to this in their car.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's too lyrical to be a club song. And the
chorus is too weak, like like not like us is
a club song and it's very lyrical, but the chorus
is so simple, so repetitive, and the beat is so
infectious and undeniable that you can sneak in like you know,
Bob Dylan esque nineteen sixty five tumbling, fucking snowballing lyrical stuff.
(18:16):
And then if the chorus comes back to it, they're
not like us, repeat it over and over again, and
like also if so happens that if you put any
thing in a song where everyone in the club stops
and goes a minor, like everyone will get there. There's hooks,
there's hooks. There's not a hook in this song to
speak of, Like every time the chorus came back, I
was like, in fact anti chancy from a structural song perspective.
(18:38):
When the chorus started again at the end, I audibly
set out loud, oh no, like usually the chorus you like,
you're like, oh, the chorus is bad.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
No, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
The chorus comes here, and I'm like, oh god, because
also the whole Daddy's little girl thing. Look again, not
to people get into that ship, get into it, whatever
you want to get into. I have the right. I
reserve the right to be like that is perfectly fine.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But you say, but you say, don't call me daddy.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, when I'm when I'm in the midst of.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
What, all right, this is your time?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
All right, fine, this is my time. Fine. In musical therapy, no,
I'm just saying, like when I'm doing s S sex stuff,
I'm always like sort of like whisper singing, like don't come.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
In Betty like that kind of I know that about you.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So though a wisp and I'll send to our fans
is like, I'm a fucking verge, dude.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You're on the verge, though you're.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I'm a verge on the verge. And so I don't know,
be into whatever you're into. This is to me, it's
this is gross, this is this is like too much.
I don't want to be hearing about a borton the
next Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yes, which actually you just made it sound even cooler,
like I was kind of more into it there.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Well, yeah, I'm brought into a lot of like high
end hip hop sessions to kind of punch things.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Up, like I know that, I know that about you.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Like you should say nowadays.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Sorry you wrote that, right, you just wrote the nowadays part.
You were like what about it started with nowadays and
then Eminem took it from there.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Well, it was like nowadays the already wants to talk
if ever color is gray, and I was like, favorite
color is gray. It is like pretty abstract, and I
was like, I think we should change it, like what
if it was like nowadays everybody wants to talk with
they got something to say, and and I was like
that is pretty good, and doctor Dre was like print
it and then I got.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
It and your mom was there and like.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
My mom was there and she was like I love
recovery and I'm like we didn't even make that yet.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
This is exact kid, but you will. I still can't
get over that your mom sends like deep track eminem
songs from late in this catalog, and that's I can't
believe that song that she one of the songs she
sent is a song that I genuinely love that song,
that difficult song. Like there's parts in it where he's
just like he's talking about how he like has gifts
(21:03):
that he put in Proof's casket and he's.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Oh, yeah him, Well, I get chilled. Real it's it's
it is. It's very, very finally drawn and relatable, which
can actually be a bridge back to this experience there
was when I was I was a journalism student. I
went to Fordham University in New York, and there was
a teacher there shout out to Fordam, what's up that
(21:30):
I just guess I also love shouting out a sporting
program I never once engaged with ever, and I don't
think I might have gone to one basketball game up
in the Bronx. Oh there's your ticks, dog, show me
them tics. But yo, so also line disease season coming
(21:52):
up as things that those ticks you definitely need to
show me them tics if in fact get on follow
us on Instagram? Is it at give it a chance? Pods?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
And if you have any ticks, if you have any
fear of life? These both of us are certified doctors,
and we will take a look at them tick.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Pics, the t pics. I will even take a fucking
bull's eye.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yo, honestly, no, but seriously, seriously, there was a teacher
at Fordham and he used to say specificity breeds believability.
And I will say that that is true and that
this song is too specific and I believe every word
(22:40):
and I fucking hate it because what is being depicted?
Can you please walk me through what happens in the
verse where there's a fight, That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, that whole section. I was like, so, I like
got distracted. I was so bored by it.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
But what even I actually from a narrative active, I
want to know what actually happens? Like does he I'm
confused because he he gets in a fight with the
girl and another girl. The girl is fighting another girl
and he holds that girl so the other girl can
(23:19):
hit the girl. Do you do you know what I'm
talking about?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So you could jab her? Yeah? The only thing left
to do was to grab her so you could jab
her get a cheap shot.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
What's going on there?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Now here come the cops. Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting
tactic for sure. That good secificity right, like you're right
like about the specificity. Like a better version of this
is there's that that Wu Tang song where he says,
Queen Queen Bees ease the guns in, meaning like it's
(23:49):
easier to like bring a like you know, if you
need to just bring a gun into a club when
you you know, you give it to your Queen Bees. Yes,
and she brings Queen Bees the guns in. And specificity
of that is like crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Is that ghost face? Who is?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I think it's Inspected Deck.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Okay, well, I mean it's yeah. Also also high end.
I just saw a thing recently, because I do keep
up thirty years posthumous, but I do keep up. Inspected
Deck was apparently on a Tupac song.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Did you saw that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I know that was this is too good. You can't
be on here And the verse was great, The verse
was great.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, he I think I'd say that's in the first
verse of that song Triumph he Inspected Deck says it,
And yeah, I forgot the lyric, he says black wou jackets,
which he also is like not only saying that like
they're like the kind of jacket they're wearing, but also
shouting out merch. I know, well it's queen beesies and
guns and it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Maybe my favorite thing, which is about before, I remember
Wu Tang Clans like a band. I remember the I
remember where I was the first time I heard the
first song heard by them was method Man and where
I was. It was Halloween nineteen ninety three and I
was at a party in bay Ridge and it was
the first time I ever got drunk. And I remember
(25:08):
like not knowing how to drink, drinking a what was
like a sixteen like a tall boy of Crazy Horse,
small liquor that someone was able to get from. And
we were on an overpass in Bay Ridge and went
to a party where I didn't know anyone with my
one friend and he was going to names Daniel Loriano,
shout out to Daniel Loreano, and he was going to
(25:29):
meet up with this he was had a crush on
this girl and we went to name I don't remember, okay, okay,
I think it was actually Lil Susie who sang take Me,
take Me in You. She was in my class on
an I seventy five shout out to Paulo.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I don't even I'm lost, so lost, take me back
to the party.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah. Yeah, So I at the party, I had to
lay down on the floor in this kid's bathroom and
his mom came and knocked on the door and was like,
who are you? And I was laying on the floor
and I was like, I'm Daniel's friend Kevin, and she like,
get out of here. And I went outside and got
pelted with eggs like it's passing min elloween, drunk hanging
onto a fence. So my career drinking started in a
(26:09):
really great spot. But I do remember being on the
floor an M E t h O D man playing
and being like, oh my god, this song's really cool.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
How could you even so your association with it is
still positive? Well, good, Yeah, that speaks to the song.
But did you also know the hall of notes sample?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
No? And that when I heard it, then yeah, then
that thing.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Is not that M E T h O D. It's
like there's a hall of notes. I didn't know until
maybe a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
But I don't think I knew that till right now.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, this is a song that's called like E D
H O D It's like wow, and it's a Hall
and Oats thing. He also there's a thing where he's
talking about it where he didn't even know all these references,
but he knew he was making them. That's like, hey,
you get off that my cloud right, stones right, stones right.
So there's that, and then there's like there's a bunch
(27:01):
of things like references he's making in it that he's
just like pulling from all these different places that he
doesn't even they're cool. They're really cool.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I found it hard. It's hard to find. Oh you
remember he says that there too. But I do want
to say at the end of all of it, what
I was starting and then I got off track by
my own shit Wu Tang you brought about merch Black
Wu Jackets. One of the coolest things about them is
that they were like a DIY outfit when they first
started like fucking selling merch out of the trunk of
(27:31):
their car at their shows. Like it'd literally be like
come outside, open the trunk and there's like all the
Wu Tang shit. I always thought that was so and
it's funny. Maybe because of growing up on Staten Island,
they were like the cultural export you were most proud of, right,
Like everybody was like we got Wu Tang, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And being there at the moment where it was still
still what we have, that's still the thing we have.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
It's like and then being but also like being there
when there was this punk rock hardcore scene happening. It
was like the two things that anybody that I was
around was like stoked on was like that scene and
Wu Tang was like state Nyland's like badge of honor.
It's true or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So I really loved this era in a lot of
ways of hip hop. But there's a thing that came
up a lot that would always bother me. And it's
a fake harpsichord and this song has like loads of
it and the call and so like the beat's not bad,
Like the high hats are really repetitive, which is like
kind of but I understand what he's doing, Like matching
(28:41):
his vocals to the high hats is like really smart
and it's something that that rapper Twista does all the time,
who's like a fast rap rapper, And I think he's
going for like a fast rap thing in this cussive.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, yeah, he like won he wasn't he like the
Guinness Book of World Records Fastest Rapper at some point
twist yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
For that sounds right, but this is him trying that.
But also, but I there's a lot of like every
every album, like there's like a May song. There's like
a May song on one of his albums that has
like this sort of the the chords underneath are with
like some sort of Rhodes kind of Worlitzer, nice piano,
but then they drop in this like fake harpsichord that
(29:19):
is just like meant to be like regal but sexy,
and it's like give me a clav or something. But
like the harpsichord is just like especially since it's so
kind of fake and sounding, it's so distracting.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Well, I think that was a transitional time in production.
It feels like where totally the technology was jumping and
advancing in leaps, but we were on our way to
where we are now. Where like like I was listening
to there's some song I don't know that Edie asks
to listen to. It's like, oh my fellas, I can't
remember the guy's name, but it's like some super like
(29:53):
hyped up beat clubs song that she heard on I'm sure,
like you know kids YouTube or someone's short it from
Roadblock or whatever the hell it is club maybe the
club she was out at the club, but like she
was trying to tell. She was like telling me, like
all the instruments, like, oh, I like the way that
piano pieces. I like that that kickdrum. It sounds good
with that kick drum. And I think all of this
(30:14):
was played live, And I was like, I think it's
very cool. I would be very surprised if literally anything
on this was played live because it's just all and
that's not a criticism. It's just we live when we
live and now what when we live now? And I
use some of these things too, even in my own
very modest, pedestrian explorations in my own music, like we
can fine tune shit in the box. Yeah, it's all
(30:36):
computer stuff. This was the moment where that was like
I remember this was like around this was like around
the time that we were starting to record music ourselves
in our little band in studios, and I remember it
was like not tape, but it wasn't pro tools really
yet it was like a d It was called these
tapes like VCRs, but it was like VCR tapes rather.
(30:57):
Is that what like the Miracle demos were done Miracle
of eighty six probably the first record under my name
was done on that too. I don't think we get
a record in pro tools till like two thousand and
two or three. But that's all just to say. I
think that some of the MIDI stuff, the direct to
computer stuff, the like, some it was just like kind
(31:17):
of shitty sounding, yeah yeah, really like cheap sound.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, MIDI used to have such a negative connotation to it,
where now it sounds a lot better. Similarly, like I
was listening to that going back to eminem that and
fifty patiently waiting song oh.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah yeah, patiently waiting for a.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Track to explode on. But it starts with this bad
horn that's like and it sounds so cheap now that
like I want them to like redo it because it
could sound so good and it's still good, Like there's
this I will I'm going to I've just I feel
on your to do list. Yeah, I just feel bad,
(31:56):
Like they got a lot going on right now.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I listen, I have to bounce into two minutes and
five seconds. I have a hard out, so I'm just
making sure like because that's how must zoom we have
left zoom juice.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
We're running out of zoom juice.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
No, dude, I gotta listen. The reason I've just just
sort of like like all over the place about the
songs because like I got a date with this big girl, like.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Right after this big girl.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Now she's like sixty eight now, but it's gonna be nice.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Give me it. Let's just hit some chances like it.
Let's hit some let's end positive, say some positive things
about it.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
He's a great rapper who can in his sleep wrap
circles around probably ninety eight percent of people who do
the thing he does, which is always worth acknowledging. And
this song is a product of and victim of the
time in which it was produced. Damn right case.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
I think that was really positive and nice. Yeah, I
think that I agree with in terms of like you
could tell he's beyond competent, know like he knows exactly
why he's doing these things. Like his the lyrics I
don't love, but I like his structure of it, Like
if you you know the rhymes within rhymes and that
(33:10):
stuff like we talk about a big fan of it,
knows how to do it. Just the subject matters.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Really not my cup, No, dude, it shouldn't be your cup.
It should be nobody cup. And I ain't shaming when.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I say it, but that cup is do do the
cup really over pc
Speaker 2 (33:34):
A
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance. Come morning, give it a chance. Give it
a chance. Give it a chance, Give it a chance.
Go morning, give it a you want to give it
a chance, Give it a chance, give it a chance.
Just give it. Hi, Kevin Devine, Hi, case ready for
(00:22):
another omar?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
I am so ready. I you know, I just want
to tell everybody Casey and everybody else listening. They are
doing just everywhere around me today. But the giant saw
circular saws that they put in the ground and Fourth
Avenue in Brooklyn is getting a fucking.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Rock old fashioned construction.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yes, so if you hear it, honestly, get over it.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Get over it.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
We bring this to you live from the streets of Philadelphia. Sorry,
it's not true.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
What we in Brooklyn is called Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well where I am in Brooklyn South b K right. Hm,
it's close. Like I'm closer to Philly than I am
to you, than a.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Lot of people, than a lot of people, then a
lot of people. You're closer to Philadelphia than I I
mean Philadelphia. That know, a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thank you, and I do appreciate the corrections.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Call your janet because we're in for it. Today.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Wait a minute, call my Janet, call your Janet because
we're in for it today.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Oh that's not a time. Sorry, Okay, I know everything
seems like a hint.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
I actually am speaking to Janet after the our taping today.
Let's know, how about wow, I should.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Tell you you have this? Do you? First? You have
this therapy sash.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yes, musical therapy session, and then we also are therapy
sessions are like we conduct a musical, we sing back
and forth, we do Hamilton, yeah mostly Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Speaking of Hamilton, we are tackling a song in the
category of rap, which is Hamilton is one of the
greatest raps of all day.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
No one has ever been more excited to hear that, Manuel, Miranda.
But you just said that's codifying lin Manuel. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So when when you think of the greats of rappers? Uh,
because I want you. I want to just set it
up like a similar sort of two or two episodes
ago a Revolution number nine, where this is a very
good artist with a with a song that people think
is the worst of their catalog. So I want to see,
just like, who are some if not your favorite, but
(02:27):
just who the world thinks are sort of the top.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Rap rappers I mean, who who does the world think
of the top rappers right now?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
All times?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Okay, it's Kendrick all time. I guess people would say,
like Biggie Jay Z to Park. If it was like
O G Status, I guess people would say like, oh, man, No,
for me, it's run DMC. For me, it's the then
public enemy. For me it's and then some people it's like, oh,
for me, it's that Snead O'Connor song on Universal Mother.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
That's it. That's all we're doing.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
I kidding, we could do that, we wanted to do so. Yeah.
And then like I guess, you know. And then of course,
in the early two thousands, controversial but undeniable, you got
Slim Shady Eminem feuding with ic P. So I got
something of them in there in Saint Clown Pass, Clint Eastwood, Gorillas.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I might you meant actually like.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Glow Rilla.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Wow, look at you stretching the person that you have
not mentioned. But I think is you know you you
you talked about their contemporaries, is nas Oh God, of course, yeah, no, No,
I think like might be.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
The best of all time, right records exactly exactly.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You hit upon the category really well, like you hit
all the people that I would I would also put
up there, and I think, NOAs is this? You know,
like I think a lot of people are like, he's
the when he did it the best, he did it
the best? Yes, yes, And then you know, I think
some people feel like some of his work is tapered
off and some of our newer records are actually kind
(04:09):
of cool or like there's there's songs on it that
are really fun. So he's always kind of stayed relevant
and like a favorite for certain people. But there's one song.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I know what you're doing.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I do is it?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I know I can. It's not be what I want
to be, which I kind of like that song. I
think it's sweet. I think so okay, but it's not
that song. Okay, what is it?
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So this is sort of like going out of our usual,
like it's a song that everybody knows. I don't think
people know.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
This song, but everybody knows NAS.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
Everyone knows NAS, and I think that this is It's
So I listened to like just the opening of it,
and I turned it off immediately because I was like,
I gotta talk to Kevin about this.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I can't even listen to this any further until I.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Speak to Kevin. Yeah, that's and that's exactly how I felt.
And I don't even want to continue talking right now
because I want us to listen to it and to
dive in. Is that did I give a good precursor
you lest you turned them out?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'm I'm out and I'll see you next week. No, Yeah,
that's that's a great. It's a great. It's a great.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
It's a great. Okay, So, without further ado, this song
is called big Girl by nos.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
All right, so I guess I gotta look that up.
Is it g I R L?
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It is the traditional spelling?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
All right?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
Both?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
All right?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Seek sexy s got whoa you?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Big?
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Good? First of all, to anyone that did play along
as we ask you to and go and listen to that,
I kind of want to issue an apology. I hope
you were not in a public space. I hope you
were not like at your job. We probably should have
said an s F dub.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Also, at the bottom, it says you know when you
read it along with the words, when you read the
lyrics along with the the track on the streaming platform
of my choice. At the bottom it says report a
concern and I was like, yeah, I will report several
I'm concerned case. I don't know where you want to start.
I know Nostradamus was a controversial moment for Nas. This
(06:15):
was kind of like the Nayber. This is like the
bottom of the trough for him in the first part
of his career, before the jay Z Beef, Big Nights things.
He comes back with Ether, He's like thought of as
it's like, you know, woke him back up. This is
I don't know, homie. The floor is yours, the world
is yours. Like another no, wow, But you're really good, dude.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
I know.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
It's not just Kurt. It's not just Elliott, it's not
just Janet, it's not just Leonard, it's not just Shanade.
It's also like I have deep, deep cuts.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Yeah. So yeah, So I always kind of have a
problem and it's not just being you know, an elder now,
but like I've always sort of like had an issue
with like when songs get too sexual and I feel
that way with like songs like put it in my
Mouth and like I remember being like the first time
(07:07):
I heard it, being like, oh that's funny, and then
like I can't ever put this song on. Kanye does
this a lot. Kanye goes like like one track on
every album he does one where it's just like overly
sexual and I don't really know who that's for, Like
it's just not really my cup. But uh Nas is
often a very good lyricist that makes really good choices,
(07:32):
and I kind of think that his choices in this
are really I don't know, lame. Like there's even like
the second verse, there's a section where I'm so bored,
Like it's it's like even his delivery is just like
and then when went to the zoo went then I
took you girl, and I took you to poo, took
you to the nice thing, like it was just like
(07:52):
his delivery is like quiet.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Like you take it to the zoo, like he lost,
I do like that, take it to the ice cream you.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Don't eat daar and get your rice dream but blizz Yeah,
but like well that almost speaks to in that section
like a loss of conviction right like and even him
and himself, he was like what do I even kind
of do it just like mumbling through it, dude. I look,
(08:32):
our show is called give it a Chance, Yes, right,
m hm, So what I will say here is given
that we have covered in the past on our program
some questionable to not even questionable proficiency with respect to
what might be loosely categorized as hip hop delivery. Wise, right,
(08:55):
this is garbage. But it is even in the passage
you identify, which is a little bit of an autopilot
delivery passage. This dude's so good at you know, the
sort of like mechanical part of hip hop, the like
syllabic construction, the like how things the interior rhyme, the
how did things fall with they're supposed to fall it
(09:15):
even when it's like one part autopilot another part like
abject nonsense and yeah, like over sexualized. It's like we
were having a conversation actually off Chancey about you brought
up a lyric that I love from a band. We
were talking about a record, des Parcedos, that Paola record.
But there's that line about sort of like the world
(09:36):
at large where they talk about it's a locker room
of CFOs making racist jokes, which is like a great
picture of exactly the people. You're like, fucking stop ruining
everything anyway, And if you don't like that, Chances, you know,
love it. Or leave it. But I will just say
there is like in that there's this like you know,
(09:57):
interior rhyme, syllabic construction. How do you kind of like
deliver the message the best way A dude like Nas
could do that shit in his sleep, right, the construction
of words and how to get that raft across the river.
It just so happens that in this instance he's using
those skills for the forces of evil and that hyper
sexualized thing. That's why I brought the this Parsadoes thing up.
It's locker room bullshit, like who the fuck cares if
(10:21):
you're I could see being like fourteen or something and
being like, whoa he said she creamed your jeans?
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Right?
Speaker 2 (10:29):
The problem is Nas wasn't fourteen when he wrote this,
and neither is. I mean, perhaps there's an argument that
we made in the case of Kanye, there's other shit
going on there that's about, like, I don't know, some
sort of arrested development, some sort of there's mental health
things in the picture there. But I also think part
of some of these subcultures is actually any like male
(10:50):
dominated sub or not subculture is like machismo, right, like
showing yourself to be this like, and part of that
is like some sort of fucking belt notch pelt wearing
conquest thing. The thing I'm confused about this is if
that indicates I'm always like it's such a bummer, If
that actually resonates as sexy, yeah, but also that maybe
(11:11):
that sounds like I'm shaming people and everyone can get
off on it.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Of course we touched upon that with Butterfly right and
give Butterfly over. This is that there's an enthusiasm rapping.
It's better rapping, much better rapping, and people who earned
it now there's there's a there's an enthusiasm with them
and with most like fourteen year olds who rap like
this where they're just discovering it and they're like the thing,
(11:34):
the chancey I'll give it is that they're having fun
doing it, and that's infectious. Like eminem when he's like
when he was younger and he was like, you know
the stuff that he's saying, which I feel like he's
still does some of it, some of it he doesn't.
He's like young and he's having fun and that's infectious, right,
Like youth is so infectious. None of this feels like
he's having fun with it. And even like the moments
(11:55):
where like you're you. I am impressed with some of
his yeah, like you said, like his rhyming or just
even his flows, but it seems like he's not even
committing to it, so like why did like why make it?
Like it feels like a demo that he was like,
I guess we'll put it out.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
I think the difference between someone like Eminem at the
in like nineteen ninety nine, especially those first two records
where it's really leaning heavily into the like shock thing,
and the first record is funnier than the second record.
I think it's by the second record, like more psychodrama
starts to enter the picture with Eminem, but none of
that stuff. Even when he's talking about sex, it's like
(12:30):
cartoonish and in some ways like part of the joke,
like he's kind of like I don't think, I don't know.
I kind of don't know much of Eminem's music after
like two thousand and two, except for the songs everybody
knows well, the ubiquitous singles. I don't know any full
album of his. Like my mom will randomly send our
family text thread like song of the day, and it's
(12:51):
usually like you know Buffy, Saint Marie or Joni mitchell Er.
And then every once in a while it's like an
odd curve ball from like Recovery by Eminem, No Way
to God, and.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
She's like the way your mom will send a like
song of a Day, and it is it has been
on multiple occasions, a deep Eminem cut.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
From later in his career, and it's it's non singles.
It's usually something like she sent us a song that
was like him rapping about his friend Proof that died.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
I know that song and I love that song. I
can't believe your mom knows that song. It's called Difficult. Yeah,
it's so good.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
It's so funny because.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Like it's made me cry. Your mom knows that song.
I've told friends to be like can you listen to
the song? And they won't do it. Your mom? I could.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I could like talk and text my mouth. Yeah yeah,
you could walk up to her at the first chance
he open. We're gonna have which you know we'll talk
about on our next step. But no, I have no
idea what that is. I just made the first Oh yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
You can go on tour with Kevin's mom and live Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Twenty thousand seat venue. See if you can get a ticket.
They don't sell out right away. But yeah, no. So
the reason I bring that up and my mom, you know,
just shout out to Path of Vine is just to say,
it's the eminem thing I've never felt for all of
his myriad flaws and failings or things that you could
criticize like anybody, and he's got his the sexualization thing
(14:16):
in his music. Maybe later he tries like act like
sexy in a song, and I'm sure that would be
really embarrassing to listen to, like that character trying to
be sexy. But I think where he gets like, yeah,
first of all, there's the youthful sort of insustions of it,
but there's also just like it's not trying to be hot,
he's like trying to He's like making it into some
kind of like almost grotesque joke. The difference here is
(14:39):
it's like it's that same it's the same thing. I'm
not interested in in fucking rock music like Buck Cherry
or what seems cool to me when I was nine
years old about the Sunset Strip bands that by the
time I was thirteen years old was like, oh no,
that's like by the time you'd had any kind of
like conversation with a girl that was like a pu
(15:00):
us into person two and you were like, oh, actually,
like this is really fucking lame. What's confusing to me
about this that I'd love to get into with you.
There's so much happening lyrically that is capital be berserk
(15:25):
and it'll touched upon it capital C confusing. I can
start anywhere you want, or I could let you set
the table for that.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
The elephant in the room is you're a big girl now,
which is like a thing you say to it to
me like a to a child, like a like a
young girl. That's just like you're a big girl. Now,
you can wash your hands, you're a big girl. Now,
you could go potty. And now he's saying like you're
a big girl. Now you could have sex and it's.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Like fully grown with your hormones now. That's the second
lyric of the.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Song also has like a song on a later album,
like a few albums after this, where it's just like
about daughters and like having a daughter and it's like
actually a pretty good song and but like it's so
confusing me, don't Yeah, that's it. That's that's the one
that NAS does featuring Ed litt Ed. Yeah, he thre down,
(16:17):
he hasn't noticed, he's been gone since.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Yeah the third sheer.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's right right on red right, it's right on murder
murder of Ed read red one. Uh he he he
has been quiet, but.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Sorry I threw you up. NAS has a song about
daughters a few albums later, talking to a little to
a woman this way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
So it's it's like it's like it's also like who
told him that he could sing? It's like when it's
actually like what you know, you know when Eminem sings
and it's just like, you know, it's it's so odd,
Like there's certain rappers that Kanye does it too, although
Kanye like auto tunes of the time now, but there's
been times he didn't and you're like, okay ah, but yeah,
(17:05):
you're a big girl now.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
It's almost like master p or something.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
It's like singing yeah may say.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeah. I feel like that's kind of the vibe that's
happening here because Eminem's kind of like it's a chorus
and I'm saying it now, right, you know, that's at
least he's got like there's like a melody.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, but he does like a high end low for it.
It's like it's like seems so like affected and panned,
like oh yeah, you know, it's like thickened. This is
so odd and yeah, masterpiece of good comp for it.
But I don't know where this song is supposed to
play because it's like not totally a club song. It's like,
(17:47):
are you just like was he like, oh my my
friends are going to listen to this in their car.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It's too lyrical to be a club song. And the
chorus is too weak, like like not like us is
a club song and it's very lyrical, but the chorus
is so simple, so repetitive, and the beat is so
infectious and undeniable that you can sneak in like you know,
Bob Dylan esque nineteen sixty five tumbling, fucking snowballing lyrical stuff.
(18:16):
And then if the chorus comes back to it, they're
not like us, repeat it over and over again, and
like also if so happens that if you put any
thing in a song where everyone in the club stops
and goes a minor, like everyone will get there. There's hooks,
there's hooks. There's not a hook in this song to
speak of, Like every time the chorus came back, I
was like, in fact anti chancy from a structural song perspective.
(18:38):
When the chorus started again at the end, I audibly
set out loud, oh no, like usually the chorus you like,
you're like, oh, the chorus is bad.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
No, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
The chorus comes here, and I'm like, oh god, because
also the whole Daddy's little girl thing. Look again, not
to people get into that ship, get into it, whatever
you want to get into. I have the right. I
reserve the right to be like that is perfectly fine.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
But you say, but you say, don't call me daddy.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Yeah, when I'm when I'm in the midst of.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
What, all right, this is your time?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
All right, fine, this is my time. Fine. In musical therapy, no,
I'm just saying, like when I'm doing s S sex stuff,
I'm always like sort of like whisper singing, like don't come.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
In Betty like that kind of I know that about you.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
So though a wisp and I'll send to our fans
is like, I'm a fucking verge, dude.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You're on the verge, though you're.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
I'm a verge on the verge. And so I don't know,
be into whatever you're into. This is to me, it's
this is gross, this is this is like too much.
I don't want to be hearing about a borton the
next Michael Jordan.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yes, which actually you just made it sound even cooler,
like I was kind of more into it there.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Well, yeah, I'm brought into a lot of like high
end hip hop sessions to kind of punch things.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Up, like I know that, I know that about you.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Like you should say nowadays.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Sorry you wrote that, right, you just wrote the nowadays part.
You were like what about it started with nowadays and
then Eminem took it from there.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Well, it was like nowadays the already wants to talk
if ever color is gray, and I was like, favorite
color is gray. It is like pretty abstract, and I
was like, I think we should change it, like what
if it was like nowadays everybody wants to talk with
they got something to say, and and I was like
that is pretty good, and doctor Dre was like print
it and then I got.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
It and your mom was there and like.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
My mom was there and she was like I love
recovery and I'm like we didn't even make that yet.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
This is exact kid, but you will. I still can't
get over that your mom sends like deep track eminem
songs from late in this catalog, and that's I can't
believe that song that she one of the songs she
sent is a song that I genuinely love that song,
that difficult song. Like there's parts in it where he's
just like he's talking about how he like has gifts
(21:03):
that he put in Proof's casket and he's.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Oh, yeah him, Well, I get chilled. Real it's it's
it is. It's very, very finally drawn and relatable, which
can actually be a bridge back to this experience there
was when I was I was a journalism student. I
went to Fordham University in New York, and there was
a teacher there shout out to Fordam, what's up that
(21:30):
I just guess I also love shouting out a sporting
program I never once engaged with ever, and I don't
think I might have gone to one basketball game up
in the Bronx. Oh there's your ticks, dog, show me
them tics. But yo, so also line disease season coming
(21:52):
up as things that those ticks you definitely need to
show me them tics if in fact get on follow
us on Instagram? Is it at give it a chance? Pods?
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
And if you have any ticks, if you have any
fear of life? These both of us are certified doctors,
and we will take a look at them tick.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Pics, the t pics. I will even take a fucking
bull's eye.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yo, honestly, no, but seriously, seriously, there was a teacher
at Fordham and he used to say specificity breeds believability.
And I will say that that is true and that
this song is too specific and I believe every word
(22:40):
and I fucking hate it because what is being depicted?
Can you please walk me through what happens in the
verse where there's a fight, That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Yeah, that whole section. I was like, so, I like
got distracted. I was so bored by it.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
But what even I actually from a narrative active, I
want to know what actually happens? Like does he I'm
confused because he he gets in a fight with the
girl and another girl. The girl is fighting another girl
and he holds that girl so the other girl can
(23:19):
hit the girl. Do you do you know what I'm
talking about?
Speaker 1 (23:21):
So you could jab her? Yeah? The only thing left
to do was to grab her so you could jab
her get a cheap shot.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
What's going on there?
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Now here come the cops. Yeah, yeah, that's an interesting
tactic for sure. That good secificity right, like you're right
like about the specificity. Like a better version of this
is there's that that Wu Tang song where he says,
Queen Queen Bees ease the guns in, meaning like it's
(23:49):
easier to like bring a like you know, if you
need to just bring a gun into a club when
you you know, you give it to your Queen Bees. Yes,
and she brings Queen Bees the guns in. And specificity
of that is like crazy.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Is that ghost face? Who is?
Speaker 1 (24:05):
I think it's Inspected Deck.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Okay, well, I mean it's yeah. Also also high end.
I just saw a thing recently, because I do keep
up thirty years posthumous, but I do keep up. Inspected
Deck was apparently on a Tupac song.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Did you saw that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (24:19):
I know that was this is too good. You can't
be on here And the verse was great, The verse
was great.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, he I think I'd say that's in the first
verse of that song Triumph he Inspected Deck says it,
And yeah, I forgot the lyric, he says black wou jackets,
which he also is like not only saying that like
they're like the kind of jacket they're wearing, but also
shouting out merch. I know, well it's queen beesies and
guns and it's incredible.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Maybe my favorite thing, which is about before, I remember
Wu Tang Clans like a band. I remember the I
remember where I was the first time I heard the
first song heard by them was method Man and where
I was. It was Halloween nineteen ninety three and I
was at a party in bay Ridge and it was
the first time I ever got drunk. And I remember
(25:08):
like not knowing how to drink, drinking a what was
like a sixteen like a tall boy of Crazy Horse,
small liquor that someone was able to get from. And
we were on an overpass in Bay Ridge and went
to a party where I didn't know anyone with my
one friend and he was going to names Daniel Loriano,
shout out to Daniel Loreano, and he was going to
(25:29):
meet up with this he was had a crush on
this girl and we went to name I don't remember, okay, okay,
I think it was actually Lil Susie who sang take Me,
take Me in You. She was in my class on
an I seventy five shout out to Paulo.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
I don't even I'm lost, so lost, take me back
to the party.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah. Yeah, So I at the party, I had to
lay down on the floor in this kid's bathroom and
his mom came and knocked on the door and was like,
who are you? And I was laying on the floor
and I was like, I'm Daniel's friend Kevin, and she like,
get out of here. And I went outside and got
pelted with eggs like it's passing min elloween, drunk hanging
onto a fence. So my career drinking started in a
(26:09):
really great spot. But I do remember being on the
floor an M E t h O D man playing
and being like, oh my god, this song's really cool.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
How could you even so your association with it is
still positive? Well, good, Yeah, that speaks to the song.
But did you also know the hall of notes sample?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
No? And that when I heard it, then yeah, then
that thing.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Is not that M E T h O D. It's
like there's a hall of notes. I didn't know until
maybe a couple of years ago.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
But I don't think I knew that till right now.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, this is a song that's called like E D
H O D It's like wow, and it's a Hall
and Oats thing. He also there's a thing where he's
talking about it where he didn't even know all these references,
but he knew he was making them. That's like, hey,
you get off that my cloud right, stones right, stones right.
So there's that, and then there's like there's a bunch
(27:01):
of things like references he's making in it that he's
just like pulling from all these different places that he
doesn't even they're cool. They're really cool.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I found it hard. It's hard to find. Oh you
remember he says that there too. But I do want
to say at the end of all of it, what
I was starting and then I got off track by
my own shit Wu Tang you brought about merch Black
Wu Jackets. One of the coolest things about them is
that they were like a DIY outfit when they first
started like fucking selling merch out of the trunk of
(27:31):
their car at their shows. Like it'd literally be like
come outside, open the trunk and there's like all the
Wu Tang shit. I always thought that was so and
it's funny. Maybe because of growing up on Staten Island,
they were like the cultural export you were most proud of, right,
Like everybody was like we got Wu Tang, that's cool.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
And being there at the moment where it was still
still what we have, that's still the thing we have.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
It's like and then being but also like being there
when there was this punk rock hardcore scene happening. It
was like the two things that anybody that I was
around was like stoked on was like that scene and
Wu Tang was like state Nyland's like badge of honor.
It's true or whatever.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
So I really loved this era in a lot of
ways of hip hop. But there's a thing that came
up a lot that would always bother me. And it's
a fake harpsichord and this song has like loads of
it and the call and so like the beat's not bad,
Like the high hats are really repetitive, which is like
kind of but I understand what he's doing, Like matching
(28:41):
his vocals to the high hats is like really smart
and it's something that that rapper Twista does all the time,
who's like a fast rap rapper, And I think he's
going for like a fast rap thing in this cussive.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
Yeah, yeah, he like won he wasn't he like the
Guinness Book of World Records Fastest Rapper at some point
twist yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
For that sounds right, but this is him trying that.
But also, but I there's a lot of like every
every album, like there's like a May song. There's like
a May song on one of his albums that has
like this sort of the the chords underneath are with
like some sort of Rhodes kind of Worlitzer, nice piano,
but then they drop in this like fake harpsichord that
(29:19):
is just like meant to be like regal but sexy,
and it's like give me a clav or something. But
like the harpsichord is just like especially since it's so
kind of fake and sounding, it's so distracting.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Well, I think that was a transitional time in production.
It feels like where totally the technology was jumping and
advancing in leaps, but we were on our way to
where we are now. Where like like I was listening
to there's some song I don't know that Edie asks
to listen to. It's like, oh my fellas, I can't
remember the guy's name, but it's like some super like
(29:53):
hyped up beat clubs song that she heard on I'm sure,
like you know kids YouTube or someone's short it from
Roadblock or whatever the hell it is club maybe the
club she was out at the club, but like she
was trying to tell. She was like telling me, like
all the instruments, like, oh, I like the way that
piano pieces. I like that that kickdrum. It sounds good
with that kick drum. And I think all of this
(30:14):
was played live, And I was like, I think it's
very cool. I would be very surprised if literally anything
on this was played live because it's just all and
that's not a criticism. It's just we live when we
live and now what when we live now? And I
use some of these things too, even in my own
very modest, pedestrian explorations in my own music, like we
can fine tune shit in the box. Yeah, it's all
(30:36):
computer stuff. This was the moment where that was like
I remember this was like around this was like around
the time that we were starting to record music ourselves
in our little band in studios, and I remember it
was like not tape, but it wasn't pro tools really
yet it was like a d It was called these
tapes like VCRs, but it was like VCR tapes rather.
(30:57):
Is that what like the Miracle demos were done Miracle
of eighty six probably the first record under my name
was done on that too. I don't think we get
a record in pro tools till like two thousand and
two or three. But that's all just to say. I
think that some of the MIDI stuff, the direct to
computer stuff, the like, some it was just like kind
(31:17):
of shitty sounding, yeah yeah, really like cheap sound.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah, MIDI used to have such a negative connotation to it,
where now it sounds a lot better. Similarly, like I
was listening to that going back to eminem that and
fifty patiently waiting song oh.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah yeah, patiently waiting for a.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Track to explode on. But it starts with this bad
horn that's like and it sounds so cheap now that
like I want them to like redo it because it
could sound so good and it's still good, Like there's
this I will I'm going to I've just I feel
on your to do list. Yeah, I just feel bad,
(31:56):
Like they got a lot going on right now.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
I listen, I have to bounce into two minutes and
five seconds. I have a hard out, so I'm just
making sure like because that's how must zoom we have
left zoom juice.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
We're running out of zoom juice.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
No, dude, I gotta listen. The reason I've just just
sort of like like all over the place about the
songs because like I got a date with this big girl, like.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Right after this big girl.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Now she's like sixty eight now, but it's gonna be nice.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Give me it. Let's just hit some chances like it.
Let's hit some let's end positive, say some positive things
about it.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
He's a great rapper who can in his sleep wrap
circles around probably ninety eight percent of people who do
the thing he does, which is always worth acknowledging. And
this song is a product of and victim of the
time in which it was produced. Damn right case.
Speaker 1 (32:48):
I think that was really positive and nice. Yeah, I
think that I agree with in terms of like you
could tell he's beyond competent, know like he knows exactly
why he's doing these things. Like his the lyrics I
don't love, but I like his structure of it, Like
if you you know the rhymes within rhymes and that
(33:10):
stuff like we talk about a big fan of it,
knows how to do it. Just the subject matters.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Really not my cup, No, dude, it shouldn't be your cup.
It should be nobody cup. And I ain't shaming when.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I say it, but that cup is do do the
cup really over pc
Speaker 2 (33:34):
A
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