June 27, 2024 • 34 mins
Long before BTS there was BSB and in this episode, K&C take on a song that should really RIP. Is this boy band smash actually larger than life or is it better off dead?
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Good morning, give it a chance, Give it a chance,
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, good morning,
Give it a You want to give it a chance,
Give it a chance, give it a chance.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Just give it.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to chancey aka, give it a chance. I'm switching
it now. It's chancy, Like yeah, yeah, it's chancy. And
we say like, oh, it's also called give it a chance.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, no, dowdy poopoo change.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
We need a name for like our diehard listeners, you know,
like how Lady Gaga has like monsters, and Nicki Minada has.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Barbies, Aaron Rodgers has truthers?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes, what's what is our? What's ours?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Chancers?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Tiny chancers?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hold tiny chance?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's nice, so nice way to start a chancy.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That song doesn't need a chancy.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
No, it needs a Grammy.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I think I give it down about a Grammy. Most
of you critics can't even stomachly, let alone stand me.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So we're starting with two bangers classics. But I'm really
excited to jump into this one, you know, because it's
I have a lot of feelings towards it, and you
actually you'll probably relate to this because you are a
touring musician for now. But I wonder, like, you know,
(01:32):
when you look at the crowd, you know, like, do
you ever say, like, you know, all you people, can't
you see like how your love's affecting my reality?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Do you ever say that?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I say it to them nightly, all seventy of them,
every night.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And when you're down, the only people that can make
it right are them, because that's what makes them larger
than life.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, that's true. That is what makes them larger than life.
What's cool about this is this fall right in a
sweet spot yep, in my this is where our age
difference makes a critical difference. And when this happened, we'll
get into it. But this is exactly when I was
like totally out on anything like this in like the
(02:22):
most aggressive collegiate way. And so I don't even know
which one this is, but I know it's either like
it's not mister ansink, it's not what your friends think,
or it's like backstreams, or it's like ninety eight. Okay, Okay,
so yeah ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's not O town.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Sounds some new kids on the block. It's Chinese food
makes me slick.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You know, all they're like the you know, I was
a lot reference these bands. Yeah bands, So this is
Backstreet Boys larger than life and where if you're not
driving a vehicle right now, then you should probably watch
the music video.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
But all right, I am gonna call it up.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
But you I'm going to tell you Kevin skip like
the first twenty seconds because there's an intro and.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I'm not I'm gonna do I'm gonna do it on
a streaming service of my choice.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Oh good, good, Okay, no video, got it?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
All right? Yeah, I don't have that kind of you
know capacity.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
Okay, ready, well, right, Backstreet Boys.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Away?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Damn yeah, damn, I know complicated.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
There's a lot to unpack. There's actually more to unpack,
is this Max Martin?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Oh, good question.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I don't do you have any Steve Martin? If the credit, yeah,
I think it's Martin Lawrence, that'd be amazing. Christian London,
Max Martin, Oh yeah, big Max, Big Max?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Oh it is Max?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah Max?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Same Kristin London.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
No, there's there's I have composition and lyrics. Brian Littrell
spree well, Brian Latrell's pretty well. Christian London, who I
think also very famous Nordic filmmaker, and then Max Martin,
who's like, you know, yeah a ka Max Martin aka
Christian London.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I know, I was wondering, like if some people do that,
there's there's so much there's Honestly, I'm gonna I'm gonna just.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Give you my thesis statement.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think it's a good song that grosses me out. Great,
it's such a fan what do you call lip service?
Like it's so it's so grossly like it's just it's
it's discussing on a bunch of reasons. One it's actually
actually I mean, I should be starting positive, but I
(04:47):
need to get this out of the way because there's
so much I like about it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Okay, there are no rules, there are no rules to chances.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So the the way I feel is this. I think
it's like the music is great, the lyrics, like the
the like the melodies, but the song about it's about
how like they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for
their fans, right, which just kind of it just grosses me.
It just kind of grosses me out, like it's you
could say that, but to put it in a song
(05:15):
feels really weird and then that second verse where it's
like looking at the crowd and I see your body sway.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Right, Their audience is children.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Legit, littrell spree, well, legit, children legit.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Like little girl, So looking at the crowd and I
see your body sway, come on, wishing I could thank
you in a different way.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I mean, that's the one that leapt off the page
to me too, Case, if we're talking.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Straight, Yeah, girl, that's the one.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It's really funny to say yeah in the middle of
this particular.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Part of the Honestly, I wish I could thank you
in a different way.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I wish you could thank me a different way too.
I've been wishing that for I mean, I'm trying to
give that a chance, reap, but that's not what we're
here to talk about, unless our listeners would like a chancellers,
if you want us to talk about the way Case
would like to thank me a right, Dinah, Dial nine
one one.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Honestly, I I think, like, all right, So there's that
thing where there's a thing that we're like little girls
or like little kids want to be older, and so
maybe they're trying to swing and be like I'm saying
it to an older fan but it's so complicated because
their audience was just to see of children women children.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, well, what's what's interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
About children women?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Which was that? That was that? That that's you know,
very very famous book and movie Children Women by Good Girl.
I do think that, uh, you know, I think what's
the the entire history of this kind of fandom, whether
whether it's Backstreet Boys, whether it's you know, new Kids
on the Block, whether it's Elvis, whether it's the first
(07:01):
two years the Beatles, whatever, which is whether it's po M,
you know, whether it's Pod, whether it's BD, BVD, Bell BIV, devo, belbe.
That's eminem. Yeah, like finding things like that to pronounce
(07:24):
that way to find the rhyme, although right now I
can't do it. But this entire what's the weird like
thin ice upon which this entire exchange is predicated is
basically this we're getting into. This is an amazing way
to get into an a f of chancey. I like
the range. It's predicated on the very very very tricky
(07:45):
and specious idea that effectively, very newly let's just be straight,
very newly pubescent people fall in a kind of fantasy
quote like a project and what's it called a parasocial
is the word that gets used now about fan artist
relationship into this space where it's like what Bop magazine is,
(08:09):
Tiger Beat, all of these things, it's basically like their
first major crush or like kind of like external love interest.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And capitalizing on it and like correct exploiting it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, And I think that part of the like why
it grosses you out is that there's a whole sort
of sociological phenomenon to dig into there that's like, really,
there's a lot there. It's layered and it's a little tricky.
But maybe when the artist doesn't do the requisite wink
(08:39):
wink work to appropriately tuck their part of that dynamic
when they basically say in the second verse, like I
know that my audience as effectively tweens, but wow, I'd
love to thank you in a different way.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
You lay and seeing your body sway is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
It's like it's it's crazy direct, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
You know the other the first lyric with the very
first layers.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
That we're starting here, this is so good. Yes, I know.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Firstly, because I may run and hide when you're screaming
my name, and that's to that's to sort of that's
to acknowledge that, like there's this thing where like the
fans are there and they sit like ever since the
Beatles have to run away from from children women, yes,
and and so they're acknowledging like, oh, cops.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Are coming by the way right now to stop this.
Like I don't know if the listeners can hear outside,
they're like, that's enough. Children, women talk?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
What do you call them? Girls?
Speaker 4 (09:35):
No wayles?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
What I call my dog? I call my dog good girl.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So I may run and had when you're screaming my
name up. But let me tell you now, there are
prices to fame, all right. It's really it's it's really
like it's it's it's not only gross in the in
this weird way with where with with like.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I must started playing it again. Yeah, yes, you know
what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's also kind of like just lame that they like
they ran out of ideas and they're like, I guess
you one could say like they're like the Devil's advocate,
is that they're this is like a real thing they
have to deal with and they're writing a song about it. Okay,
well sure, until you start to think them in a
different way.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Well correct, and I also think for me, I like that.
But this is the point of this show. People. If
you don't want serious exit Gesis of Christian London, don't
fucking come to Chancy. Dog. That's what happens on Chancy,
and the chancers know that. The chancers definitely know that,
and they know the earth is flat, dog.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Tiny chancers know the earth is flat.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
And when you come here for breaking down.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Christy, yes, now, but listen. The thing about this lyric
for me the song lyrically, and it's a little inside baseball.
Sometimes a song writer calls the whole song the lyric,
not just like one lyric and the song like. The
thing about the lyric to me is it's inconsistencies are
as such. This song starts with them complaining in a
(11:07):
way about the parasocial relationship between them and fans, but
then very quickly pivots to literally saying the fans keep
them alive, fans with stature that is larger than measurable life.
But the first part of the song is basically like
(11:28):
get away from me. They're prices to this. Look. I
might be a god to you, I get it, but
there are prices to that godlike role I have to
play and frankly the one who exacts that price tax
man and get the fuck away from me, give me
a chancy to have min in life. But at the
same time, thank you, rely everything you literally give me everything.
(11:50):
I'd love to come in the crowd and smooth you.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
The crowd and smooth you in a in a weirder way.
(12:14):
The part that I don't get is the that like
larger than life is literally like they like had a
board of phrases and they were like, Okay, larger than
life sounds good. Let's do larger than life and write
a song about it. It's it's like, it's such a
strange disconnect, Like all you people, can't you seek and stay?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Oh here.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I love the fact in our reality every time we're down,
you could make it right. Every time we're sad, you
can make it right by buying our records and coming
to see us live. And that's what makes you larger
than life itself.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Which is honestly in a way now that you've led
us here with that was that was professorial and it's
and it's uh and it's breaking apart. The thing is
in a weird way, whether this was intentional or not.
And look, Max Martin, I do these little like and
it's very boutique and and and you know, so it
exists in my little corner of the playground. There's like
we do these songwriting workshops. We've been doing since like
(13:06):
twenty twenty one in COVID with this little company, and
some other artists do it too, and it's effectively like
one on one conversation. Sometimes people workshop a song or whatever.
But in like setting the table for it, I always
talk about, like, how all of this stuff and we've
talked about it on this show. It couldn't be more subjective?
What is more subjective than what people like in art
and entertainment? Nothing like it couldn't And that there are
(13:30):
sort of like polls to that experience. And in my
mind it's like, I know, there's like Leonard Cohen, and
there's Max Martin, and I there's a lot of other
things too, But I know, like I know where my
taste leads me. But does that mean that the where
my taste leads me is objectively better? Of course it doesn't.
There's a billion people that would totally disagree with that assessment.
(13:51):
In fact, more people would disagree with where my taste
leads me on that specific question than not that being said,
Like I don't want to think maybe he did do
this on purpose. In a way, it is a tacit
acknowledgment of the power. They are larger than life to
the Backstreet Boys because the minute the fan goes away,
the band goes away, like the band ceases to exist
(14:15):
when the audience stops caring about it.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I want to hear that song, and I think if
they're like legit, like we disappear without you, Like that's
like that's a crazy pbstential existential idea of an artist,
like we do not cease to exist if you every
when you look away, we're gone forever.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And that's like it feels like they might be giants
like where my eye where your eyes don't go?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know, yes, like little kids, object permanence or whatever,
like does that exist if I don't look at it?
But I will tell you this, yes, audience.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Like basically like we don't exist. We die if you
turn this off, so give us everything and well thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Differently, yeah, I would love listen. I want to be
very clear to our audience, right, now I would.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
We hear your body sway as you listen to a
weird podcast, right, I'm I'm down for a pause, a pause.
I'm down with the sickness, but I'm also down for
a pause.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Run I am. I think I think that that's what,
But we can pivot to the pause run I think
from that because look, that is a layer cake. The
lyric is whether it's like convoluted, confusing or like layered,
it really does take a turn around that all of
our time spent in flashes of lights, there are prices
(15:45):
to fame. Yeah, it's the Beatlemania thing. Yeah, that sets
up what sounds to me like a negative experience one
is having where they feel, you know, a prison can
be a prison, even if the bars are made of gold,
kind of a thing. And then so it's interesting because
the whole theme of the song is in a weird way,
like I do think there's a tension between where they
(16:07):
start and where they go, and that makes where they
go a little bit more interesting to me. Of course,
accepting for the second verse, which is frankly unacceptable, there's
no there's no explicating that in a way that's just
like not like you know it would be kind of
a little like cool, as if we like get a
little wink wink, not not at the crowd, and it's
like no, no, no, no, that's not cool. I notice that's
(16:27):
not cool. But I do think it's like they are
getting it something like when you said it grosses you're
out that they write a song about like the way
this is executed on many levels, including the basic premise
of the song. I do think there is something to
be said for the acknowledgment. Like I remember there's a
guy in my band we were whether we are a collective.
(16:50):
The band is such a collective, like thirty people have
been in out over ten years, but there's one tour
or on my basis, my friend Jay, he was like,
we're watching a crowd watch a band we were on
tour with, and he'd been in bands for thirty years,
and he like was like, hey, I just realized something.
This has nothing to do with us. The entire thing
(17:10):
is like what's happening out there? And I knew what
he meant by that. It's in exchange, and I think
he was actually saying that as an overcorrection to kind
of level the field. But so much of artistic entertainer.
Hubris is about this almost like edified god, like in
the culture. You know, it's like our royalty if you
get to a certain level, and even just the exchange
(17:33):
that happens anywhere where like one person's facing one way
in a room and everyone else is facing the other
way watching them do something, there is something about that
that is there's this layered and so I do think
that it's ancient. Yes, it's ancient, and it's like there's
something in it that it's very easy to go wrong,
(17:56):
to become an egomaniacal kind of like power dynamic nightmare,
but it's also easy to kind of forget. I think
what happens when people get lost in that is that
one of two things seem to happen. One is they
don't exist without an audience in the way that that
existence is defined. The other thing is that like it
(18:16):
then curdles into some weird awards show bullshit where effectively
people are like thanking their audience for enabling them to
live these lives outside of you know what normal people
get to exist in so in weird way by telling
the audience you're larger than life, at least they're paying
a kind of lip service to inverting that. I agree
(18:39):
that I don't hear very often in songs, and I'll
shut up. I'll say this. This is a high compliment
for me. The whole song made me think about there's
a bridge to a song on from a Basement on
the Hill the Elliott the Postumous Elliot Smith record. There's
a song called Memory Lane. I can't believe I'm connecting
these two things. This is ever in history. But the
(19:00):
ridge goes and he was not a very like I
feel like he was always singing in code. The feeling
was in there, but he was like Hi, he was
intentionally high at shell games a lot with what he
was saying and his feelings. And one of the things
he says, though it's so direct, the bridge to that
song is he goes, if it's your decision to be
open about yourself, be careful or else, and then he repeats,
(19:22):
be careful or else. And this is like this confessional sound.
It's got people think he's a confessional singer songwriter. And
he's talking about the expense of that with your audience,
with the press, even with the people that your colleagues,
collaborators with. And to me, this is crazy. But the
first verse of this song is effectively them saying, if
(19:43):
it's your decision to get up and do this thing
we do, there's a cost to it. And I don't
know that's there's there's something in there that I'm like, hey,
for an enormous pop band to touch that. So are you?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Are you saying that a lot of Elliot Smith's songs
were ghost written by Christian London.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I'm saying most. I'm actually saying I think Christian London
is a student for Elliott Smith. One thing people know
about e Smith is that once he was nominated for Oscar,
he began to write songs for Backstreet.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
So Christian is Max Martin and Elliott Smith.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
One of the core planks of QAnon is actually the
Elliott Smith is Christian London. And it's just a thing
people don't talk about outside of chancey.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Tiny chancers do they no chances?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So I also want to This is something that I
really like when when bands do this, and I've brought
up before that I thought that I've brought this up
as a missed opportunity and Backstreet Boys hits this here
but not enough.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's the part where it goes.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And that makes you lader and that yeah, yeah, but
like honestly three times and I like that, but.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I wish they'd changed it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I actually think if I was a DJ, I would
I would move move these songs together.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
He'd be like, and.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That makes you, dude, and that makes you harder, better, faster.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Stronger, hour hot.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Right, I would do that transition right.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Good, really good.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I'm giving it all up to DJ.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
That's really good.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Everyone just had to like hear me seeing that DJ transition.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
But if you needed to do it, sometimes you have
to get through something, you have to process it. Do.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I think that the music in this is very good.
As soon as I turned it on, I was like,
I'm enjoying. I enjoy this, and I literally thought like,
is this another one where I'm like, I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
It's a good song.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
But then I just remembered what the lyrics are about
and that second verse. But like I have a I
have a lie.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I like a sort of.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I think it's just it's nostalgic for me in my era,
Like you were talking about our different ages, slightly different.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I'm sixty one in case he's eighteen.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
And I just graduated high schools and I.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Have emphysema and.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
I'm the captain and the wrestling team.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
How do we become friends? We're a modern back to
the future. Uh, I think that. I think that that
all right.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
So what this reminds me of and I have an
affection for this stuff is growing up in Staten Island,
New York, the children women, I was friends with, the girls,
I was friends with love this, and I was a
kid that wasn't great at like turning girls into girlfriends.
(22:37):
I could only get them to be my friends. And
I was like, I'll take it because I get to
be friends with girls and I like that. Yeah, I
think I've learned. I learned so much with that, and
it was I'm happy for it. I'm happier for it.
Just you know, in the relationships I have and have
continued to have platonically.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Well it actually kind of like teaches you how to
be platonically and actually the legitimately to make platonic friendships
across like sexual preference or whatever, you know, which is
I think an important thing.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
If if I had my drugs, i'd be back, you know,
at the time, I'd be kissing girls on the lips.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
But you would have been you would have been thanking
them in a different way.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
But when I was that age, but the.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Now really riding the line here.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Sweat ruin sweating as I say, children women, Chris. It
sounds like something that like a senator from the like
from the past would say my shot, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, or from right now, depending on where you are
in the country.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
So those friends, we they love this music, and it's
the same reason why like I have an affection for
like the Moo, like the movies and TV that are
like like from Dawson's Creek to Two Friends to Titanic,
like you know, they love that, and there's a reason
they loved it. And I liked that they loved it,
and I have nostalgia for that, and you know, and
(24:17):
and this is not I. I also grew up loving
you know, punk bands and rock bands, and like I
was a instant. I was a quote unquote rocker, which
was like a difference from yeahstream but Odell loved this
stuff because it was I remember going. Also, I think
I've we've talked about this a little bit, but like
(24:39):
I liked TRL.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, I mean, how could you not that was like
a cultural ubiquity if you were I even sorry, I
didn't mean.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
No, no, Please, I want to know because because I
think the thing that I liked the most, and and
please if I if I said to stop me. But
it was so funny that you'd have Backstreet Boys and
corn and like Tom Tom bum bum song like.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
All Elliott Smith played on t r L.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I didn't know that looked this up.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It was. It was like in a trend, that transitional
moment where it was Carson Dally. It was early. It
was when Goodwill Hunting was out, and it was when
Misery was like a very minor quote hit, like it
wasn't really being played on MTV or on the radio
very much, but it was. It was the Oscar nominated
song for a hugely successful movie that was very much
(25:30):
like a zeitgeist moment that was like, you know, look
that movie blew up to two people that are still
like enormously famous, powerful, celebritized people today. Anyway, he's he's
on there and it's nuts because he's sitting next to
Carson Dally.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
And Fred Durst exactly exactly a different way exactly, and
he sang that and that's on Basement on the Hill too.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You know, she really checked there's a lot of stuff
on that record people should hear about, but no, t
R O. Well, I think if you were especially I'm
forty four, how old are you, I'm thirty eight, So yeah,
that's exactly. I mean when you that was I would
imagine it was almost appointment viewing, Like you would come
home from school and like transition into whatever your evening
was going to be, and that would be on in
(26:16):
the background while you were doing whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And it exposed you to all different stuff. So if
you if you were like a Corn fan or olymp biscuit,
you you would watch. You'd have no choice but to watch,
like you know, not only boy bands, but like R
and B was on there, like you know, like or
like Destiny's Child that stuff is right.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
A Mesados like totally yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Wow, And but it was like oh but also actually
you know Enrique Iglesia, so like it really had all
different kinds of genre on this thing. And now it's like,
I think it's so easy to go down your path.
And it's the same thing obviously with politics, but like
you get into this sort of helping you.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Get into that more. I don't think there's a discourse
out there in the world about the world of politics.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, we're gonna give politics a chance.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, Honestly, most of what we want to talk
about on the show is just to give politics. I'm chancy,
so all right.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So my thought is this that a lot of times
with these songs, when I hear them, I roll my eyes.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
This one I.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Get excited because I want to turn to my friends
and go listen to the second verse and totally you
know what I mean, Like, I think that that will
be my takeaway.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
The second versus is definitely going to be a big
part of the takeaway. Second verse almost completely overshadows everything
else that's.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Happening, and verse worse than the first.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Where's the fred Durs?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, but I think that this ultimately, I will also
say that when this comes on, aside from that little
yuckiness the ick as the kids say, I think.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That the music like don't Don't Dan you On.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Like it doesn't have that seems sort of like you know,
in the past we talked about feeling hella good, it
doesn't have that just overly repetitive. It's got the sweet
spot of like, oh, this is like a really simple
melody that I dig and I like where it goes.
I like the pre chorus. I like the chorus. The
(28:23):
verses scare me. The bridge. The bridge is okay.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Bridges a little. Yeah, the bridge, I was gonna say,
the bridge is a little. I think one thing really
basically what this song bears out is from a structural
Max Martin is like, uh, you know, switch whatever, Swedish engineering,
it's like perfect, it's it's it's.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
A it's a diceon vacuum.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yes, and he and that is not I don't mean
that as a pejorative thing, like it's not it's not
easy to do that, especially to do like that'siculous and
presumptuous for me to say that. Not only is it
not easy, there's a reason why this person has been
like the sought after collaborator and songwriter for kind of
(29:09):
like a couple generations of major pop and it's because
the construction and execution are unassailable. And I think what
he really understands at this level of pop dance songwriting
is like, the bridge is negotiable. The bridge can kind
of be some like weird aqueous space where like you
(29:29):
have singers, these are performers, you can kind of let
them like vocalize in some weird way in the background
and just kind of like he kind of abstracts things
for ten seconds in the bridge and just brings us
right back to what we really want. Is like an
amp and up double chorus. But you need, you do
need something to get there. And I've meaning to say this.
I know we're near. This is like just something about construction.
(29:52):
There's about literal construction. I want to talk about the BQE.
There's a story that I've loved that about songwriting where
Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen are both they're driving together.
This is a real story, Like Leonard Cohl starts like
a joke. It started. There's a few yes, and there's
and you don't know what it is. There's a few
(30:12):
of them that start like a joke with them, and
but one of them is they're driving and just like
a woman comes on the radio and Dylan turns to
Leonard Cohen when the bridge comes on and goes they're
driving in silence listening and Dylan goes, pretty sturdy bridge.
When the bridge to that song comes on, dirty Bridge,
(30:33):
and Leonard Cohen goes, it's it's a good bridge. Bob
and Bob goes, you can drive a truck over that bridge. Wow,
it's total asshole, just an unforgiven, just unforgivable asshole. But
apparently he also says to me in that same conversation,
you know you're my number one songwriter, Leonard, and Leonard says,
well where are you? And he says, mom, number zero.
(30:55):
That's great, but I'm prey. I always think of that
when we talk about bridges.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Story the construction is I love a bridge. I love
a bridge.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well, to me, the bridge is the secret weapon. And
I remember talking to colleague the bridge. To me, for
a bridge to exist, it's got to be almost like
the best part of the song. It's like a bridge
almost has to be otherwise. I almost feel like or
it's got to be special in some way.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
The bridge is a challenge, and I think songs like
this show you that it's a challenge because he didn't
nail the bridge and it's it's fine, it's a they
just used it as a quick little break to get
back in. Yes, I think that. Yeah, I think you're right,
Like I love I love when a pop song it's
got like a great bridge, like sometimes like a Miley
Cyrus will just have like a great bridge somewhere, and
(31:43):
I love when that.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Happens, and I think that the same is true. Like
and also, by the way, when you were talking about
like it's funny I grew up, I was grew up
in Brooklyn and Staten Island, but the real formative of
like eleven to seventeen was Staten Island also and very
similar experiences. And I feel like the that thing about
like I like punk, I liked rock, I was a
(32:05):
rocker or whatever, but I also like loved pop music.
And the thing is it's because it's all pop music.
Guns n' Roses is pop music. It's just a dirtier yeah,
but like it's all pop music. And I think the
thing with what I love about Like even we've talked
about Elliott Smith a few times in this I think
it's because in a way, I actually think he is
also an immaculate constructionist like Max Smartin, just in a
(32:28):
totally different direction. And the bridge to something like his
song Waltz Number two XO, that bridge is incredible. It's
like an incredible And it's also like he nailed the assignment.
It was like this thing where it was like but
it's a pop song. It's just a pop song that
might have been on the radio in nineteen sixty seven
or something like that and it happened to be in
(32:49):
nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
But that's so true.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Someone like Max Martin, it's just like he both understands
I feel like what maybe what I feel like with
this is he might have gotten up to the bridge
and been like, this is just I don't have it
for this, so we're going to do this.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
But you know what actually fixes it a lot, and
we didn't really talk about this is if you want
to hit song, you have to start with like a
blood curdling laugh, like a werewolf kind of which is
also that he does that on They have that kind
of laugh on that song that's like Everybody, which is
like got like a Halloween vibe. Oh yeah, but it's
(33:24):
funny that they brought back that laugh for this song.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Well it's a little like plant and Payoff, you know.
And by the way, if you don't know what that is,
you can buy a sid Field screenwriting. But yes, yeah,
he wants to bring it back. It's a little it's
like a brand thing. It is an identify a tag,
a tag, a skin tag.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, skin tag in a producer skin tag. Yeah yeah,
well Heavy, I think we did it. I think our
tiny chancers are so excited. They're already back. They're ready
to get the Earth flat.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Going and thank us in the most different of ways.
That's it, by Chancers
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Just giving ship
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it
a chance.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Good morning, give it a chance, Give it a chance,
Give it a chance, Give it a chance, good morning,
Give it a You want to give it a chance,
Give it a chance, give it a chance.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Just give it.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to chancey aka, give it a chance. I'm switching
it now. It's chancy, Like yeah, yeah, it's chancy. And
we say like, oh, it's also called give it a chance.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Yeah, no, dowdy poopoo change.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
We need a name for like our diehard listeners, you know,
like how Lady Gaga has like monsters, and Nicki Minada has.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Barbies, Aaron Rodgers has truthers?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Yes, what's what is our? What's ours?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Chancers?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Tiny chancers?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Hold tiny chance?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's nice, so nice way to start a chancy.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
That song doesn't need a chancy.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
No, it needs a Grammy.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I think I give it down about a Grammy. Most
of you critics can't even stomachly, let alone stand me.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
So we're starting with two bangers classics. But I'm really
excited to jump into this one, you know, because it's
I have a lot of feelings towards it, and you
actually you'll probably relate to this because you are a
touring musician for now. But I wonder, like, you know,
(01:32):
when you look at the crowd, you know, like, do
you ever say, like, you know, all you people, can't
you see like how your love's affecting my reality?
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Do you ever say that?
Speaker 1 (01:48):
I say it to them nightly, all seventy of them,
every night.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
And when you're down, the only people that can make
it right are them, because that's what makes them larger
than life.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah, that's true. That is what makes them larger than life.
What's cool about this is this fall right in a
sweet spot yep, in my this is where our age
difference makes a critical difference. And when this happened, we'll
get into it. But this is exactly when I was
like totally out on anything like this in like the
(02:22):
most aggressive collegiate way. And so I don't even know
which one this is, but I know it's either like
it's not mister ansink, it's not what your friends think,
or it's like backstreams, or it's like ninety eight. Okay, Okay,
so yeah ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
It's not O town.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Sounds some new kids on the block. It's Chinese food
makes me slick.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
You know, all they're like the you know, I was
a lot reference these bands. Yeah bands, So this is
Backstreet Boys larger than life and where if you're not
driving a vehicle right now, then you should probably watch
the music video.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
But all right, I am gonna call it up.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
But you I'm going to tell you Kevin skip like
the first twenty seconds because there's an intro and.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
I'm not I'm gonna do I'm gonna do it on
a streaming service of my choice.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Oh good, good, Okay, no video, got it?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
All right? Yeah, I don't have that kind of you
know capacity.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
Okay, ready, well, right, Backstreet Boys.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Away?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
Damn yeah, damn, I know complicated.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
There's a lot to unpack. There's actually more to unpack,
is this Max Martin?
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Oh, good question.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
I don't do you have any Steve Martin? If the credit, yeah,
I think it's Martin Lawrence, that'd be amazing. Christian London,
Max Martin, Oh yeah, big Max, Big Max?
Speaker 3 (03:51):
Oh it is Max?
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Yeah Max?
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Same Kristin London.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
No, there's there's I have composition and lyrics. Brian Littrell
spree well, Brian Latrell's pretty well. Christian London, who I
think also very famous Nordic filmmaker, and then Max Martin,
who's like, you know, yeah a ka Max Martin aka
Christian London.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
I know, I was wondering, like if some people do that,
there's there's so much there's Honestly, I'm gonna I'm gonna just.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
Give you my thesis statement.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think it's a good song that grosses me out. Great,
it's such a fan what do you call lip service?
Like it's so it's so grossly like it's just it's
it's discussing on a bunch of reasons. One it's actually
actually I mean, I should be starting positive, but I
(04:47):
need to get this out of the way because there's
so much I like about it.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Okay, there are no rules, there are no rules to chances.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
So the the way I feel is this. I think
it's like the music is great, the lyrics, like the
the like the melodies, but the song about it's about
how like they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for
their fans, right, which just kind of it just grosses me.
It just kind of grosses me out, like it's you
could say that, but to put it in a song
(05:15):
feels really weird and then that second verse where it's
like looking at the crowd and I see your body sway.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
Right, Their audience is children.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Legit, littrell spree, well, legit, children legit.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Like little girl, So looking at the crowd and I
see your body sway, come on, wishing I could thank
you in a different way.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
I mean, that's the one that leapt off the page
to me too, Case, if we're talking.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Straight, Yeah, girl, that's the one.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It's really funny to say yeah in the middle of
this particular.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
Part of the Honestly, I wish I could thank you
in a different way.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I wish you could thank me a different way too.
I've been wishing that for I mean, I'm trying to
give that a chance, reap, but that's not what we're
here to talk about, unless our listeners would like a chancellers,
if you want us to talk about the way Case
would like to thank me a right, Dinah, Dial nine
one one.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Honestly, I I think, like, all right, So there's that
thing where there's a thing that we're like little girls
or like little kids want to be older, and so
maybe they're trying to swing and be like I'm saying
it to an older fan but it's so complicated because
their audience was just to see of children women children.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, well, what's what's interesting.
Speaker 3 (06:36):
About children women?
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Which was that? That was that? That that's you know,
very very famous book and movie Children Women by Good Girl.
I do think that, uh, you know, I think what's
the the entire history of this kind of fandom, whether
whether it's Backstreet Boys, whether it's you know, new Kids
on the Block, whether it's Elvis, whether it's the first
(07:01):
two years the Beatles, whatever, which is whether it's po M,
you know, whether it's Pod, whether it's BD, BVD, Bell BIV, devo, belbe.
That's eminem. Yeah, like finding things like that to pronounce
(07:24):
that way to find the rhyme, although right now I
can't do it. But this entire what's the weird like
thin ice upon which this entire exchange is predicated is
basically this we're getting into. This is an amazing way
to get into an a f of chancey. I like
the range. It's predicated on the very very very tricky
(07:45):
and specious idea that effectively, very newly let's just be straight,
very newly pubescent people fall in a kind of fantasy
quote like a project and what's it called a parasocial
is the word that gets used now about fan artist
relationship into this space where it's like what Bop magazine is,
(08:09):
Tiger Beat, all of these things, it's basically like their
first major crush or like kind of like external love interest.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
And capitalizing on it and like correct exploiting it.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, And I think that part of the like why
it grosses you out is that there's a whole sort
of sociological phenomenon to dig into there that's like, really,
there's a lot there. It's layered and it's a little tricky.
But maybe when the artist doesn't do the requisite wink
(08:39):
wink work to appropriately tuck their part of that dynamic
when they basically say in the second verse, like I
know that my audience as effectively tweens, but wow, I'd
love to thank you in a different way.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
You lay and seeing your body sway is crazy.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
It's like it's it's crazy direct, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
You know the other the first lyric with the very
first layers.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
That we're starting here, this is so good. Yes, I know.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Firstly, because I may run and hide when you're screaming
my name, and that's to that's to sort of that's
to acknowledge that, like there's this thing where like the
fans are there and they sit like ever since the
Beatles have to run away from from children women, yes,
and and so they're acknowledging like, oh, cops.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
Are coming by the way right now to stop this.
Like I don't know if the listeners can hear outside,
they're like, that's enough. Children, women talk?
Speaker 3 (09:33):
What do you call them? Girls?
Speaker 4 (09:35):
No wayles?
Speaker 3 (09:37):
What I call my dog? I call my dog good girl.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
So I may run and had when you're screaming my
name up. But let me tell you now, there are
prices to fame, all right. It's really it's it's really
like it's it's it's not only gross in the in
this weird way with where with with like.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
I must started playing it again. Yeah, yes, you know
what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's also kind of like just lame that they like
they ran out of ideas and they're like, I guess
you one could say like they're like the Devil's advocate,
is that they're this is like a real thing they
have to deal with and they're writing a song about it. Okay,
well sure, until you start to think them in a
different way.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Well correct, and I also think for me, I like that.
But this is the point of this show. People. If
you don't want serious exit Gesis of Christian London, don't
fucking come to Chancy. Dog. That's what happens on Chancy,
and the chancers know that. The chancers definitely know that,
and they know the earth is flat, dog.
Speaker 3 (10:40):
Tiny chancers know the earth is flat.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
And when you come here for breaking down.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Christy, yes, now, but listen. The thing about this lyric
for me the song lyrically, and it's a little inside baseball.
Sometimes a song writer calls the whole song the lyric,
not just like one lyric and the song like. The
thing about the lyric to me is it's inconsistencies are
as such. This song starts with them complaining in a
(11:07):
way about the parasocial relationship between them and fans, but
then very quickly pivots to literally saying the fans keep
them alive, fans with stature that is larger than measurable life.
But the first part of the song is basically like
(11:28):
get away from me. They're prices to this. Look. I
might be a god to you, I get it, but
there are prices to that godlike role I have to
play and frankly the one who exacts that price tax
man and get the fuck away from me, give me
a chancy to have min in life. But at the
same time, thank you, rely everything you literally give me everything.
(11:50):
I'd love to come in the crowd and smooth you.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
The crowd and smooth you in a in a weirder way.
(12:14):
The part that I don't get is the that like
larger than life is literally like they like had a
board of phrases and they were like, Okay, larger than
life sounds good. Let's do larger than life and write
a song about it. It's it's like, it's such a
strange disconnect, Like all you people, can't you seek and stay?
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Oh here.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I love the fact in our reality every time we're down,
you could make it right. Every time we're sad, you
can make it right by buying our records and coming
to see us live. And that's what makes you larger
than life itself.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Which is honestly in a way now that you've led
us here with that was that was professorial and it's
and it's uh and it's breaking apart. The thing is
in a weird way, whether this was intentional or not.
And look, Max Martin, I do these little like and
it's very boutique and and and you know, so it
exists in my little corner of the playground. There's like
we do these songwriting workshops. We've been doing since like
(13:06):
twenty twenty one in COVID with this little company, and
some other artists do it too, and it's effectively like
one on one conversation. Sometimes people workshop a song or whatever.
But in like setting the table for it, I always
talk about, like, how all of this stuff and we've
talked about it on this show. It couldn't be more subjective?
What is more subjective than what people like in art
and entertainment? Nothing like it couldn't And that there are
(13:30):
sort of like polls to that experience. And in my
mind it's like, I know, there's like Leonard Cohen, and
there's Max Martin, and I there's a lot of other
things too, But I know, like I know where my
taste leads me. But does that mean that the where
my taste leads me is objectively better? Of course it doesn't.
There's a billion people that would totally disagree with that assessment.
(13:51):
In fact, more people would disagree with where my taste
leads me on that specific question than not that being said,
Like I don't want to think maybe he did do
this on purpose. In a way, it is a tacit
acknowledgment of the power. They are larger than life to
the Backstreet Boys because the minute the fan goes away,
the band goes away, like the band ceases to exist
(14:15):
when the audience stops caring about it.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
I want to hear that song, and I think if
they're like legit, like we disappear without you, Like that's
like that's a crazy pbstential existential idea of an artist,
like we do not cease to exist if you every
when you look away, we're gone forever.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And that's like it feels like they might be giants
like where my eye where your eyes don't go?
Speaker 1 (14:42):
You know, yes, like little kids, object permanence or whatever,
like does that exist if I don't look at it?
But I will tell you this, yes, audience.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Like basically like we don't exist. We die if you
turn this off, so give us everything and well thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Differently, yeah, I would love listen. I want to be
very clear to our audience, right, now I would.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
We hear your body sway as you listen to a
weird podcast, right, I'm I'm down for a pause, a pause.
I'm down with the sickness, but I'm also down for
a pause.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Run I am. I think I think that that's what,
But we can pivot to the pause run I think
from that because look, that is a layer cake. The
lyric is whether it's like convoluted, confusing or like layered,
it really does take a turn around that all of
our time spent in flashes of lights, there are prices
(15:45):
to fame. Yeah, it's the Beatlemania thing. Yeah, that sets
up what sounds to me like a negative experience one
is having where they feel, you know, a prison can
be a prison, even if the bars are made of gold,
kind of a thing. And then so it's interesting because
the whole theme of the song is in a weird way,
like I do think there's a tension between where they
(16:07):
start and where they go, and that makes where they
go a little bit more interesting to me. Of course,
accepting for the second verse, which is frankly unacceptable, there's
no there's no explicating that in a way that's just
like not like you know it would be kind of
a little like cool, as if we like get a
little wink wink, not not at the crowd, and it's
like no, no, no, no, that's not cool. I notice that's
(16:27):
not cool. But I do think it's like they are
getting it something like when you said it grosses you're
out that they write a song about like the way
this is executed on many levels, including the basic premise
of the song. I do think there is something to
be said for the acknowledgment. Like I remember there's a
guy in my band we were whether we are a collective.
(16:50):
The band is such a collective, like thirty people have
been in out over ten years, but there's one tour
or on my basis, my friend Jay, he was like,
we're watching a crowd watch a band we were on
tour with, and he'd been in bands for thirty years,
and he like was like, hey, I just realized something.
This has nothing to do with us. The entire thing
(17:10):
is like what's happening out there? And I knew what
he meant by that. It's in exchange, and I think
he was actually saying that as an overcorrection to kind
of level the field. But so much of artistic entertainer.
Hubris is about this almost like edified god, like in
the culture. You know, it's like our royalty if you
get to a certain level, and even just the exchange
(17:33):
that happens anywhere where like one person's facing one way
in a room and everyone else is facing the other
way watching them do something, there is something about that
that is there's this layered and so I do think
that it's ancient. Yes, it's ancient, and it's like there's
something in it that it's very easy to go wrong,
(17:56):
to become an egomaniacal kind of like power dynamic nightmare,
but it's also easy to kind of forget. I think
what happens when people get lost in that is that
one of two things seem to happen. One is they
don't exist without an audience in the way that that
existence is defined. The other thing is that like it
(18:16):
then curdles into some weird awards show bullshit where effectively
people are like thanking their audience for enabling them to
live these lives outside of you know what normal people
get to exist in so in weird way by telling
the audience you're larger than life, at least they're paying
a kind of lip service to inverting that. I agree
(18:39):
that I don't hear very often in songs, and I'll
shut up. I'll say this. This is a high compliment
for me. The whole song made me think about there's
a bridge to a song on from a Basement on
the Hill the Elliott the Postumous Elliot Smith record. There's
a song called Memory Lane. I can't believe I'm connecting
these two things. This is ever in history. But the
(19:00):
ridge goes and he was not a very like I
feel like he was always singing in code. The feeling
was in there, but he was like Hi, he was
intentionally high at shell games a lot with what he
was saying and his feelings. And one of the things
he says, though it's so direct, the bridge to that
song is he goes, if it's your decision to be
open about yourself, be careful or else, and then he repeats,
(19:22):
be careful or else. And this is like this confessional sound.
It's got people think he's a confessional singer songwriter. And
he's talking about the expense of that with your audience,
with the press, even with the people that your colleagues,
collaborators with. And to me, this is crazy. But the
first verse of this song is effectively them saying, if
(19:43):
it's your decision to get up and do this thing
we do, there's a cost to it. And I don't
know that's there's there's something in there that I'm like, hey,
for an enormous pop band to touch that. So are you?
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Are you saying that a lot of Elliot Smith's songs
were ghost written by Christian London.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
I'm saying most. I'm actually saying I think Christian London
is a student for Elliott Smith. One thing people know
about e Smith is that once he was nominated for Oscar,
he began to write songs for Backstreet.
Speaker 4 (20:13):
So Christian is Max Martin and Elliott Smith.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
One of the core planks of QAnon is actually the
Elliott Smith is Christian London. And it's just a thing
people don't talk about outside of chancey.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Tiny chancers do they no chances?
Speaker 2 (20:28):
So I also want to This is something that I
really like when when bands do this, and I've brought
up before that I thought that I've brought this up
as a missed opportunity and Backstreet Boys hits this here
but not enough.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's the part where it goes.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
And that makes you lader and that yeah, yeah, but
like honestly three times and I like that, but.
Speaker 3 (20:51):
I wish they'd changed it.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
I actually think if I was a DJ, I would
I would move move these songs together.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
He'd be like, and.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
That makes you, dude, and that makes you harder, better, faster.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Stronger, hour hot.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
Right, I would do that transition right.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Good, really good.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
I'm giving it all up to DJ.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
That's really good.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
Everyone just had to like hear me seeing that DJ transition.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
But if you needed to do it, sometimes you have
to get through something, you have to process it. Do.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
I think that the music in this is very good.
As soon as I turned it on, I was like,
I'm enjoying. I enjoy this, and I literally thought like,
is this another one where I'm like, I'm wrong.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
It's a good song.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
But then I just remembered what the lyrics are about
and that second verse. But like I have a I
have a lie.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I like a sort of.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
I think it's just it's nostalgic for me in my era,
Like you were talking about our different ages, slightly different.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I'm sixty one in case he's eighteen.
Speaker 4 (21:55):
And I just graduated high schools and I.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Have emphysema and.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
I'm the captain and the wrestling team.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
How do we become friends? We're a modern back to
the future. Uh, I think that. I think that that
all right.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
So what this reminds me of and I have an
affection for this stuff is growing up in Staten Island,
New York, the children women, I was friends with, the girls,
I was friends with love this, and I was a
kid that wasn't great at like turning girls into girlfriends.
(22:37):
I could only get them to be my friends. And
I was like, I'll take it because I get to
be friends with girls and I like that. Yeah, I
think I've learned. I learned so much with that, and
it was I'm happy for it. I'm happier for it.
Just you know, in the relationships I have and have
continued to have platonically.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Well it actually kind of like teaches you how to
be platonically and actually the legitimately to make platonic friendships
across like sexual preference or whatever, you know, which is
I think an important thing.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
If if I had my drugs, i'd be back, you know,
at the time, I'd be kissing girls on the lips.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
But you would have been you would have been thanking
them in a different way.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
But when I was that age, but the.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Now really riding the line here.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Sweat ruin sweating as I say, children women, Chris. It
sounds like something that like a senator from the like
from the past would say my shot, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah, or from right now, depending on where you are
in the country.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
So those friends, we they love this music, and it's
the same reason why like I have an affection for
like the Moo, like the movies and TV that are
like like from Dawson's Creek to Two Friends to Titanic,
like you know, they love that, and there's a reason
they loved it. And I liked that they loved it,
and I have nostalgia for that, and you know, and
(24:17):
and this is not I. I also grew up loving
you know, punk bands and rock bands, and like I
was a instant. I was a quote unquote rocker, which
was like a difference from yeahstream but Odell loved this
stuff because it was I remember going. Also, I think
I've we've talked about this a little bit, but like
(24:39):
I liked TRL.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, I mean, how could you not that was like
a cultural ubiquity if you were I even sorry, I
didn't mean.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
No, no, Please, I want to know because because I
think the thing that I liked the most, and and
please if I if I said to stop me. But
it was so funny that you'd have Backstreet Boys and
corn and like Tom Tom bum bum song like.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
All Elliott Smith played on t r L.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
I didn't know that looked this up.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
It was. It was like in a trend, that transitional
moment where it was Carson Dally. It was early. It
was when Goodwill Hunting was out, and it was when
Misery was like a very minor quote hit, like it
wasn't really being played on MTV or on the radio
very much, but it was. It was the Oscar nominated
song for a hugely successful movie that was very much
(25:30):
like a zeitgeist moment that was like, you know, look
that movie blew up to two people that are still
like enormously famous, powerful, celebritized people today. Anyway, he's he's
on there and it's nuts because he's sitting next to
Carson Dally.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
And Fred Durst exactly exactly a different way exactly, and
he sang that and that's on Basement on the Hill too.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
You know, she really checked there's a lot of stuff
on that record people should hear about, but no, t
R O. Well, I think if you were especially I'm
forty four, how old are you, I'm thirty eight, So yeah,
that's exactly. I mean when you that was I would
imagine it was almost appointment viewing, Like you would come
home from school and like transition into whatever your evening
was going to be, and that would be on in
(26:16):
the background while you were doing whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
And it exposed you to all different stuff. So if
you if you were like a Corn fan or olymp biscuit,
you you would watch. You'd have no choice but to watch,
like you know, not only boy bands, but like R
and B was on there, like you know, like or
like Destiny's Child that stuff is right.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
A Mesados like totally yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Wow, And but it was like oh but also actually
you know Enrique Iglesia, so like it really had all
different kinds of genre on this thing. And now it's like,
I think it's so easy to go down your path.
And it's the same thing obviously with politics, but like
you get into this sort of helping you.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Get into that more. I don't think there's a discourse
out there in the world about the world of politics.
Speaker 4 (27:10):
Yeah, we're gonna give politics a chance.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, yeah, Honestly, most of what we want to talk
about on the show is just to give politics. I'm chancy,
so all right.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
So my thought is this that a lot of times
with these songs, when I hear them, I roll my eyes.
Speaker 3 (27:25):
This one I.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Get excited because I want to turn to my friends
and go listen to the second verse and totally you
know what I mean, Like, I think that that will
be my takeaway.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
The second versus is definitely going to be a big
part of the takeaway. Second verse almost completely overshadows everything
else that's.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Happening, and verse worse than the first.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Where's the fred Durs?
Speaker 2 (27:49):
Yeah, but I think that this ultimately, I will also
say that when this comes on, aside from that little
yuckiness the ick as the kids say, I think.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
That the music like don't Don't Dan you On.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Like it doesn't have that seems sort of like you know,
in the past we talked about feeling hella good, it
doesn't have that just overly repetitive. It's got the sweet
spot of like, oh, this is like a really simple
melody that I dig and I like where it goes.
I like the pre chorus. I like the chorus. The
(28:23):
verses scare me. The bridge. The bridge is okay.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Bridges a little. Yeah, the bridge, I was gonna say,
the bridge is a little. I think one thing really
basically what this song bears out is from a structural
Max Martin is like, uh, you know, switch whatever, Swedish engineering,
it's like perfect, it's it's it's.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
A it's a diceon vacuum.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yes, and he and that is not I don't mean
that as a pejorative thing, like it's not it's not
easy to do that, especially to do like that'siculous and
presumptuous for me to say that. Not only is it
not easy, there's a reason why this person has been
like the sought after collaborator and songwriter for kind of
(29:09):
like a couple generations of major pop and it's because
the construction and execution are unassailable. And I think what
he really understands at this level of pop dance songwriting
is like, the bridge is negotiable. The bridge can kind
of be some like weird aqueous space where like you
(29:29):
have singers, these are performers, you can kind of let
them like vocalize in some weird way in the background
and just kind of like he kind of abstracts things
for ten seconds in the bridge and just brings us
right back to what we really want. Is like an
amp and up double chorus. But you need, you do
need something to get there. And I've meaning to say this.
I know we're near. This is like just something about construction.
(29:52):
There's about literal construction. I want to talk about the BQE.
There's a story that I've loved that about songwriting where
Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen are both they're driving together.
This is a real story, Like Leonard Cohl starts like
a joke. It started. There's a few yes, and there's
and you don't know what it is. There's a few
(30:12):
of them that start like a joke with them, and
but one of them is they're driving and just like
a woman comes on the radio and Dylan turns to
Leonard Cohen when the bridge comes on and goes they're
driving in silence listening and Dylan goes, pretty sturdy bridge.
When the bridge to that song comes on, dirty Bridge,
(30:33):
and Leonard Cohen goes, it's it's a good bridge. Bob
and Bob goes, you can drive a truck over that bridge. Wow,
it's total asshole, just an unforgiven, just unforgivable asshole. But
apparently he also says to me in that same conversation,
you know you're my number one songwriter, Leonard, and Leonard says,
well where are you? And he says, mom, number zero.
(30:55):
That's great, but I'm prey. I always think of that
when we talk about bridges.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Story the construction is I love a bridge. I love
a bridge.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
Well, to me, the bridge is the secret weapon. And
I remember talking to colleague the bridge. To me, for
a bridge to exist, it's got to be almost like
the best part of the song. It's like a bridge
almost has to be otherwise. I almost feel like or
it's got to be special in some way.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
The bridge is a challenge, and I think songs like
this show you that it's a challenge because he didn't
nail the bridge and it's it's fine, it's a they
just used it as a quick little break to get
back in. Yes, I think that. Yeah, I think you're right,
Like I love I love when a pop song it's
got like a great bridge, like sometimes like a Miley
Cyrus will just have like a great bridge somewhere, and
(31:43):
I love when that.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Happens, and I think that the same is true. Like
and also, by the way, when you were talking about
like it's funny I grew up, I was grew up
in Brooklyn and Staten Island, but the real formative of
like eleven to seventeen was Staten Island also and very
similar experiences. And I feel like the that thing about
like I like punk, I liked rock, I was a
(32:05):
rocker or whatever, but I also like loved pop music.
And the thing is it's because it's all pop music.
Guns n' Roses is pop music. It's just a dirtier yeah,
but like it's all pop music. And I think the
thing with what I love about Like even we've talked
about Elliott Smith a few times in this I think
it's because in a way, I actually think he is
also an immaculate constructionist like Max Smartin, just in a
(32:28):
totally different direction. And the bridge to something like his
song Waltz Number two XO, that bridge is incredible. It's
like an incredible And it's also like he nailed the assignment.
It was like this thing where it was like but
it's a pop song. It's just a pop song that
might have been on the radio in nineteen sixty seven
or something like that and it happened to be in
(32:49):
nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
But that's so true.
Speaker 1 (32:52):
Someone like Max Martin, it's just like he both understands
I feel like what maybe what I feel like with
this is he might have gotten up to the bridge
and been like, this is just I don't have it
for this, so we're going to do this.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
But you know what actually fixes it a lot, and
we didn't really talk about this is if you want
to hit song, you have to start with like a
blood curdling laugh, like a werewolf kind of which is
also that he does that on They have that kind
of laugh on that song that's like Everybody, which is
like got like a Halloween vibe. Oh yeah, but it's
(33:24):
funny that they brought back that laugh for this song.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Well it's a little like plant and Payoff, you know.
And by the way, if you don't know what that is,
you can buy a sid Field screenwriting. But yes, yeah,
he wants to bring it back. It's a little it's
like a brand thing. It is an identify a tag,
a tag, a skin tag.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yeah, skin tag in a producer skin tag. Yeah yeah,
well Heavy, I think we did it. I think our
tiny chancers are so excited. They're already back. They're ready
to get the Earth flat.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Going and thank us in the most different of ways.
That's it, by Chancers
Speaker 3 (34:04):
Just giving ship
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