A Full Cast Reading of Emperor Julian’s Symposium of the Caesars

THE SYMPOSIUM OF THE CAESARS. Written by the Roman emperor Julian.

Translated from the ancient Greek and directed by Jeremy Swist. Recorded by Jeremy Swist and fellow cast members. Recordings engineered by Christopher Swist at Evenfall Studio in Spofford, New Hampshire, USA. Produced in loving memory of Lawrence P. Swist. Find further details on the production here.

DRAMATIS PERSONAE in order of appearance:

Jeremy Swist as EMPEROR JULIAN
Liv Albert as the EMPEROR’S COMPANION
Christopher Polt as SILENUS
Toph Marshall as APOLLO and HELIOS
Emma Pauly as DIONYSUS
Marios Koutsoukos as ZEUS
Aneirin Pendragon as HERMES
Fiona Radford as LADY JUSTICE
Katherine Lu Hsu as HERACLES
Peta Greenfield as ROMULUS-QUIRINUS
Jay Bregman as CRONUS
Princess O’Nika Auguste as POSEIDON
Lea Niccolai as JULIUS CAESAR
Meg Finlayson as ALEXANDER THE GREAT
Draken Garfinkel as OCTAVIAN AUGUSTUS
Alberto Quiroga-Puertas as TRAJAN
Mark Masterson as MARCUS AURELIUS
Charlotte Naylor Davis as CONSTANTINE
Daniel Munn as JESUS

SETTING
The imperial palace of Antioch, on a mid-December evening in the year 362 of the Common Era, the 1,115th year from the founding of Rome. 

Attributions and licensing information for music used in the podcast can be found here: mythsbaby.com/sources-attributions.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Oh hi there, This is let's talk about MIT's baby
kind of and I'm your host live again kind of. Today,
I am here with a very special episode. Like you
heard with yesterday's early conversation with Jeremy Swist, we are
bringing you a dramatic reading of the Emperor Julian's work
what Jeremy's called the Symposium of the Caesars for his

(00:45):
new translation. Like we mentioned there a year ago, Jeremy
raised his idea with me and I was thrilled to
be the one to host this incredibly cool project. It
is a full cast recording of Julian's work, this mythological
conversation of gods, Roman emperors, a Greek leader and others. Basically,

(01:06):
Julian imagined a time when all the dead rulers of Rome,
their first king, Romulus and Alexander, the great handful of
others had to fight over who was the best leader
as judged by the gods of Olympus. Needless to say,
it's fun. You can find more about the production at
the link in the episode's description, and the full cast

(01:27):
list is there too. The setting is the Imperial Palace
of Antioch on a mid December evening in the year
three sixty two of the Common Era, the one thousand,
one hundred and fifteenth year from the founding of Rome.

(01:59):
This this is a full cast reading of Emperor Julian's
Symposium of the Caesars, presented. Bye, let's talk about Mitt's baby.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
My dearest friend. The Saturnalia is upon us. It is
the season when the god Cronus has us all let
loose and kid around. But I'm no good at that,
you know, making people laugh or smile. I'm worried I'll
just end up making a fool of myself.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
Oh, Caesar, is there anyone out there so boring and
stuck up that they worry over how to kid around?
In my opinion, kidding around should relax your mind and
save you from having to worry about anything.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, you're right to assume that, But I've got a
different take on the matter. I mean, cracking jokes, making
fun of people. I'm just not born to do satire.
But for Krona's sake, we still have a tradition to follow.
So in the spirit of kidding around, how about this,

(03:16):
I'll tell you a myth, one that might have plenty
worth hearing.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Oh that would be so delightful.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know me.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
I'm a fan of any myth, but especially the ones
that really get it right, because I think about them
the same way you and our mutual friend Plato do.
Plato's myths have much to take seriously.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Zeus, Yes, ain't that the truth?

Speaker 1 (03:40):
So what kind of myth is it?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Well, it's not one of Yesov's fables or any of
the sagas some long ago. No, this is one I
learned straight from Hermes himself. Now, whether you'd call it
something he completely made up, or literally true, or a
mixture of true and fiction, well that'll be evident in

(04:03):
the telling of it.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
Well, you sure introduced it like a real storyteller and
a fine rhetorician too. Okay, never mind what genre it is,
Get on with the story.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Lend me your ears. Then it was the Saturnalia, and
King Romulus was welcoming all the gods to a sacrificial feast,
but he also invited the emperors of Rome. There were
couches furnished for all the gods way up in outer space,
or as Homer puts it, on Olympus, where the gods

(04:34):
have their unshakable abode for all time. Now, legend has
it that Queeriness arrived there sometime after Heracles did. And
by Queeriness I mean the name we should all call
Romulus by if we believe what he told us after
becoming a god. Anyway, that's where the party was arranged
for the gods. The emperors, meanwhile, had to dine in

(04:57):
the lower atmosphere, just within the orbit of the moon.
They were kept in orbit by the lightness of the
bodies they wore a clothes, but also by the Moon's gravity.
Now the supreme gods had the four most exquisite couches.
Cronus's couch was made of ebony that dazzled with so
much divine radiance within its blackness that no one could

(05:19):
look directly at it. It contained such an abundance of
light that it would have the same effect on your
eyes as I imagine it would if you stared directly
into the disk of the sun. As for Zeus's couch,
it sparkled more than silver and shone brighter than gold.
Not even Hermes really knew what to compare it to electrum, perhaps,

(05:43):
or some other metal. Next to these gods sat mother
and daughter goddesses on golden thrones. Hera next to Zeus,
Rhea next to Cronus. Even Hermes himself couldn't describe their beauty.
It was beyond words, he claimed, only to the mind,
and no easy task for speech to say or ears

(06:05):
to hear. There will never be so talented an orator
who could compass the magnitude of beauty appropriate to a
vision of the gods. Now, the other gods had special
furniture as well, either a throne or a couch, depending
on their rank, and they never fought over them. Instead.
I think Homer got it exactly right and heard it

(06:26):
straight from the muses themselves when he said that each
and every god sits steadfast and secure on the throne
their decreed to sit upon, and even when they stand
up at their father Zeus's arrival, they neither disrupt and
alter their assigned seats, nor steal them from one another. No,
each god knows their proper place in the circle of

(06:47):
heavenly throne. Among these gods sat the satyr Siliness. By
the looks of him, he was quite enamored of the
pretty young god seated beside him, Dionysus, who was the
spitting image of their father Zeus. Silena sat there in
the guise of a foster father and mentor, and gratified

(07:07):
this gracious God's fondness for laughter and kidding around by
constantly cracking jokes and trying to be funny. As soon
as the party was ready for the Caesars as well,
the first Caesar entered, Julius Caesar, a man driven by
ambition to vie with Zeus himself for absolute power. Silenus

(07:27):
took one look at him and said.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Look out, Zeus, this fellow here is lusting for power
and plotting to usurp even your throne. See how mighty
and good looking he is. Though I must admit he
resembles me with that bald head of his.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
Though the gods were more or less ignoring him, Silenus
kept this kind of humor going. When Octavian Augustus entered next.
Octavian resembled a chameleon, changing into all sorts of colors,
now the palest white, now red, now a smoky, cloudy
shade of black. At first, he surrendered himself to Aphrodite

(08:05):
and the graces, and pretended that his eyes shot rays
of light like those of mighty Helius, the sun god.
So disdainful was he of anyone meeting his gaze. Silenus, however,
gazed at him.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
Wow, what kind of motley monstrosity is this? I wonder
what sort of mischief he has in store for us?

Speaker 2 (08:27):
This was Silenus's reaction. But then Apollo intervened.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
Cut the crap, Silenus.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
All I need to do is hand him over to
Zeno of kidiom here, and before you know it, I'll
have him turned into pure gold. Hey, Zeno, come over
here and give my foster child some TLC.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
The philosopher did as he was told, and just like
Zamolxus began mumbling magic spells over him. All it took
was a few stoic maxims, and Octavian was transformed into
a man of sound judgment and self discipline. Then Tiberius
rushed in third in order. He wore a fierce and

(09:08):
dignified expression and looked at once like a man of
both modesty and soldierly dignity. But when he turned around
to assume his throne, you could see all manner of
bodily mutilation, burns, bruises, blisters, scabs, scars and sores, all
of it grilled onto his backside by his licentious and

(09:28):
sadistic behavior. Silenus couldn't help but notice.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Dear stranger, you sure look stranger than before.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
But Silenus seemed to be taking things more seriously than before,
and Dionysus cut onto.

Speaker 6 (09:43):
This, what's the matter, daddy? Why so serious?

Speaker 3 (09:49):
This old geezer here gave me quite a shock, so
much that I've lost control of myself and become possessed
by Homer's muse?

Speaker 7 (09:56):
Are you afraid Tiberius here will drag you along the
ground by the ear?

Speaker 4 (10:00):
Here?

Speaker 8 (10:01):
He did that to one of his school teachers once.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Oh, let him go cry his way home to that
little island of his then, and torture that poor fisherman instead.

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Silenus and Dionysus kept on trading allusions to Tiberius's time
on Capri until a malignant monster came onto the scene,
Gaius Caligula. None of the gods could bear to look
at him, not before Lady Justus herself handed him over
to the furies, who launched him straight into the pit
of Tartarus. Silenus had nothing to say about him, but

(10:35):
when Claudius showed up, then Silenus began reciting some lines
from Aristophanes Knights fawning on Claudius instead of the original
character Demos. Then he looked back at Queriness.

Speaker 3 (10:48):
That was a real faux pas on your part, Queeriness
inviting Claudius to the party without his freedman Narcissus and Palace.
But still send them an invitation, and if you like,
send one to his wife Messalina as well. Without them.
Claudius is just a lackey in this drama, a virtual
stage prop.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
While Silenus kept talking, Nero made his entrance, decked in
laurel and strumming a guitar. Silenus gave Apollo a knowing look, I.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
See you have a challenger in our midst.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
King. Apollo faced his challenger.

Speaker 5 (11:23):
I will rip that laurel crown right off his head.
He models himself on me, but not completely, and he's
a cheap imitation at that.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
And just like that, Nero was stripped of his crown,
and before he knew it was swallowed by the Cocitus River.
Following this, a motley crew came crashing in the likes
of vindex galba Otho and Vitellius. Silenus had a severe reaction.

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Oh where in the world. Did you gods find this
swarm of monarchs? These monsters don't even spare you temples
from going up in smoke.

Speaker 4 (12:02):
Don't you see? I'm choking to death.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Zeus looked over at his brother Serapis, pointed out Vespasian,
and uttered the following commands.

Speaker 9 (12:13):
Syrap Is quick sent forth, that's Smikrinis from Egyptus, and
put that fire out. Then give these orders to his sons,
Titos and Domitianos. Let the older on frolic with afrodd Pandimus,
and the younger being prisoned like those in the Brazen
Bull of Sikelia.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Nerva arrived next, a man who, despite his years, maintained
his good looks, since even old age can radiate with
its own beauty. He was the nicest guy you'd ever meet,
and a most honest businessman. Even Silenus showed him respect
and kept quiet. Hermes asked him, why you.

Speaker 8 (12:53):
Really have nothing to say about Nerva.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
I do have this to say, but it's an accusation
against you, you gods. You let that bloodthirsty monster Dimitian
reign fifteen years, but nerve up barely one. It's out
of proportion, I tell.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
You Zeus refuted these charges.

Speaker 9 (13:12):
Silinos, you will drop that accusation when you see all
the good emperors. I will bring in after him.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Right on cue in marched Trajan, shouldering the spoils of
the Dacians and Parthians. When Silenus beheld this site, he
wished to be heard, but not seen.

Speaker 3 (13:31):
Keep your guard up, Lord Zeus, don't let your precious
gainy me leave your sight.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Next after Trajan came Hadrian, an austere looking fellow with
a long beard. He was a check of all trades,
especially the fine arts. As he strolled in, he kept
gazing at the heavens and prying into their secrets. Silenus,
meanwhile kept gazing at Hadrian.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
What's this sophist up to? You think he's up here
looking for Antinous? Someone go tell him his little boy
toys not here and put an end to his bullshitting.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
Antoninus Pious entered next, a man more moderate in his
politics than in his sex life. He too caught Silenus's eye.

Speaker 4 (14:14):
The stinginess of this guy.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
He looks like the type of geezer who'd save on
Cuban seeds by cutting them in half.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
After Antoninus, a tag team of brothers came trotting in
Marcus Abelius and Lucius Verus. This put Silenus in a
terrible bind because he just didn't have it in him
to make any jokes at their expense, especially Marcus, although
he could have made a big deal of how he
screwed up when it came to his son Commitus and
his wife Faustina. You see, Marcus took Faustina's death way

(14:46):
harder than he should have, especially since Faustina was hardly
a decent woman. Likewise, Marcus failed to foresee how combatists
would drag the empire down with him. This was despite
the fact that Marcus's distinguish son in law, Pompeianus, would
have done a much better job being in charge of
the empire, an even better job than Marcus in looking

(15:07):
after commodists. Silenus could have given Marcus quite a hard
time about all of this, but the emperor's personal qualities
were so impressive that he was too ashamed to do so.
As for Commodists himself, Silenus thought him so worthless that
even ridicule would be a waste. Besides, Commodist was already
spiraling down to earth try as he might to keep

(15:30):
up with the heroic souls. He was a terrible flyer.
Next came Pertinax. He had barely joined the party and
was already complaining about his assassination. Lady Justus felt bad
for him.

Speaker 10 (15:43):
Don't you worry, Pertinax. I'll make sure your murderers won't
have the last laugh. But you're not so innocent either.
If I'm not mistaken, you were in on the conspiracy
against Marcus's boy.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Next up was Septimius Severus. This iron fisted gentleman was
brimming with all manner of cruelty. Silenus was too frightened
to mock him.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I'll keep my mouth shut about him. He's not very
nice and wouldn't let me get away with it.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Severus's two sons, Caracalla and Gaeta, were about to sneak
in after him when King Minos stopped them at the
door to check their credentials. He sent Caracalla away to
pay for his crimes, but gave Getta a pass. Then
he sent Macrinus off to the same place as Caracalla
on the charge of murdering Caracalla. Likewise, that teenager from

(16:37):
Amesa Eligabolis got a one way ticket as far away
as possible from the God's holy realm. His Syrian cousin Alexander,
on the other hand, sat down in the cheap seats
furthest back, upset over his assassination and crying for his
royal mother Julia mammea. Silenus added insult to injury, What a.

Speaker 4 (16:57):
Big dumb baby you are.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
You had all the power in the world and you
couldn't control your own family. You turned the imperial treasury
into your mommy's private bank account, and not even your
best friends could convince you to share any of it. Nope,
it just all went into her privy purse.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
But lady justus let the boy Alexander off the hook.

Speaker 10 (17:20):
Don't you worry, lad None of those truly responsible for
these crimes will avoid what's coming to them.

Speaker 11 (17:27):
On my watch.

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Then Galianis came waltzing in after his father Valerian, but
in a very different style of dress. Valerian was wearing
the chains of his Persian captivity, while Galianis not only
dressed like a woman, but walked like one too. Silenus
quoted Euripides Phoenician women at Valerian, Who's.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
That helmed in the hair of white horses, who leads
from the front of his kingdom's forces.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Then he quoted the iliad at Galianis, who was.

Speaker 4 (18:00):
All decked out in gold and made up like a girl.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Zeus rescinded both their party invitations. Following this duo was
a second Claudius, Claudius Gothicus. The gods took one look
at him and liked what they saw. So magnanimous was
he that the gods unanimously authorized the right to rule
for him and his that is my dynasty, and considered
it justified that the descendants of a man so devoted

(18:26):
to Rome as he should remain in power for many generations. Meanwhile,
Aurelian was making a mad dash towards the venue, thinking
he could outrun those trying to haul him before King Minos.
There are a host of murder charges filed against him,
and he had poor excuses for avoiding all these indictments.
But Helius, the son God, whose my master as well

(18:48):
as his, had bailed Aralian out on all sorts of
occasions before and even now, in the presence of all
the gods, Helius remained his advocate.

Speaker 5 (18:57):
Aurelian already faced justice or have you all forgotten what
the Delphic oracle said on the matter. If they reap
what they've sown, then justice has served.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Probus came along next, in a reign of not even
seven years. This man rebuilt seventy cities and ruled quite
even handedly. But for all this he suffered at the
hands of godless criminals. Still, Probus was duly honored for
all his achievements, especially when his assassins were brought to justice.
You would think Silenus wouldn't try to make fun of him,

(19:30):
but despite many of the gods trying to shut him up,
he wouldn't listen.

Speaker 3 (19:36):
No, we should make an example out of him now
so everyone coming in after him can be more sensible,
don't you know, Probus, When doctors prescribe bitter medicine, they
tend to sweeten.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
It with something.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
But you were way too harsh, too rigorous, never cutting
anyone some slack. Sure it wasn't right that you were assassinated,
but it wasn't unexpected either. You can't get horses to
do what you want unless you indulge them a bit
and give them something they like. Same goes for cows
and mules. People work that way too. Again, think like

(20:13):
a doctor and their patience. If you can't convince them
to undergo minor treatments, they surely won't let you do
major surgery on them.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Dionysus was amazed at this.

Speaker 6 (20:25):
What's gotten into you?

Speaker 4 (20:27):
Daddy? You're sounding like a philosopher. Who do you think
it was that made you a philosopher? Kiddo?

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Don't you know that Socrates won first prize in philosophy
in his own day for being just like me? Or
do you think your brother Apollo made the whole thing
up about him? Besides does everything I say have.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
To be funny? I can be serious too.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Their conversation went on like this. When Carus tried crashing
the party along with his sons Karinas and Numerian, Lady
Justice promptly bounced them from the establishment. Then Diocletian pulled
up with his entourage Maximian, Galerius and my grandpa Constantius Chlorus.
They entered with arms interlocked and elegantly choreographed, not as equals,

(21:14):
but with Diocletian at the center and the rest around
him like an armed escort. And whenever one of them
got too far ahead of him, he roped them back
in making them stay in their lane. But Diocletian eventually
got tired of this, so he took everything off that
he was carrying from his shoulders and handed it all
over to them, then walked like a free man. The

(21:35):
gods were impressed with Diocletian for the harmony he forged
between these men, so they gave him a first class seat,
far ahead of most of his fellow emperors. But then
Maximian started misbehaving badly, and Silenus, rather than doing him
the honor of roasting him, simply denied him admission to
the Emperor's Club. And for good reason. It wasn't just

(21:56):
that Maximian was sexually perverted in every way imagineable. It's
that he kept meddling in everything and could be trusted
by no one. He was the one in the quartet
always singing off key. Lady Justice wasted no time and
made him leave the hall. I have no clue where
in the world he went after that. I forgot to
ask Hermes for those details. Despite this, that fine tuned

(22:21):
quartet started transposing itself into a jarring and disharmonious cacophony.
Lady Justice had to break this band up, stopping Galerious
in Maxim and Daiya from even laying hands on the
doors to this hall of heroes. Licinius somehow made it
as far as the coat room before King Minos booted
him out for playing so badly out of tune. Of

(22:43):
all these, only Constantine managed to find his way inside.
He sat quietly for a while waiting for his sons.
Then Constantine the Second, Constantious the Second, and Constans all
came in and joined him. But it was access denied
for Magnetius his paul were sound only in appearance, but
not reality. The gods could see right through him and

(23:05):
knew that nothing he accomplished came from good intentions, so
they sent him packing. Now, at long last, the festivities

(23:41):
were ready to begin. For their part, the gods were
fully satisfied, and there wasn't a thing they lacked. Still,
Hermes thought it proper to make this company of heroes
below them prove their worth. Zeus had the same idea. Besides,
Queerness had already been begging the gods to let him
one of them up to sit next to him, but

(24:02):
Heracles took issue with this request.

Speaker 10 (24:05):
I won't stand for this Queerness, tell me why didn't
you invite my dear Alexander to the party.

Speaker 12 (24:14):
Fine, I'll ask Zeus himself, Zeus, if you're thinking of
elevating any of these guys to our level, then get
Alexander to show up. If we're putting everyone to the test,
then why not let someone better than all.

Speaker 6 (24:29):
Of them compete?

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Zeus agreed, Heracles was right, so Alexander came on in
to join the heroic company. However, neither Julius Caesar nor
anyone else would give up their seat for him. Alexander
did find an MPCT eventually, one conveniently vacated by Carakella,
and sat down. Karakala had claimed it, but got ejected

(24:53):
for murdering his brother Gheta. When Silena saw this, he
tried to make Queerness look foolish.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
No, Queerness, let's see if any of your Romans is
a match for this.

Speaker 13 (25:03):
One Greek Jupiter be my witness. There's been plenty romans
no worse than him. True, my descendants admired him so
much that he's the only foreign leader they call the grate,
and they meant it. But just because they call him
the great doesn't necessarily mean that they thought him greater

(25:25):
than any Roman leader in their own day. Sure you
could blame that on chauvinism, but it's probably true. However,
we'll only know for sure when we've put them all
to the test.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Queerness started blushing when he said this. He was clearly
nervous at the thought of his posterity only taking second place.
At this point, Zeus posed a question to his fellow gods, how.

Speaker 9 (25:51):
Sal we proceed s we throw open the competition to everyone,
or do we follow the procedure of athletic trials, where
the athletes defeats another even in a single mass, is
ranked above all the athletes the loser had beaten previously
by virtue of being ranked below the present loser, and
disregarding that these previous losers never competed against the winner.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
The gods voted unanimously for the second former procedure, as
it made much more sense. So Hermie summoned the three
greatest warriors to enter the lists, Julius, Caesar, Octavian, and Trajan.
There seemed to be no objections to this until King
Cronus took a long look at Zeus and exclaimed, this

(26:36):
is preposterous.

Speaker 14 (26:39):
Well, I can see in this contest a military emperors,
but not a single philosopher. I like philosophers no less
than soldiers. Let's put Marcus Urelius in the running.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Marcus answered Cronus's summons and showed up bearing the weight
of his gravitas. His sunken eyes and furrowed brow showed
the signs of overwork. Still, he beamed with indescribable beauty,
but not the kind that comes from cosmetics and fussing
over one's looks. He let his beard grow super long,
and his clothes were plain and modest due to his

(27:15):
ascetic eating habits. His luminous body was fully transparent. It
shone like the most pure and perfect light. Once Marcus
made his way into the Holy of Holies, Dionysus had
a question for King Cronus and Father Zeus.

Speaker 15 (27:31):
Hey, dead dead dead.

Speaker 7 (27:33):
Dead dea da de, and you too, Grandpa, Is it
ever appropriate that we gods have anything short of total perfection?

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Zeus and Cronus shook their heads.

Speaker 7 (27:46):
Well, then let's complete the ensemble by adding a hedonist
to the mix.

Speaker 2 (27:53):
Zeus objected to this proposal.

Speaker 9 (27:56):
We cannot break our laws by admitting a man who
rejects as his models.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
So Dionysus offered a compromise.

Speaker 6 (28:05):
Fine, then how.

Speaker 7 (28:07):
About the profane contestants stand just outside the sanctuary. If
you can make that accommodation, then I propose we call
up a man who, while not totally unlike the military
emperor's competing, is more of a slave to sensual delights.

Speaker 8 (28:27):
So come up here as far as the gates constantine.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
The gods agreed to Dionysus's proposal, but the question still
remained what form should the competition take. Hermes suggested the following.

Speaker 8 (28:44):
I think each contestant should give a speech, one after
the other, and offer an account of their career. Then
the gods will vote for the winner.

Speaker 2 (28:54):
Apollo didn't think this was such a good idea.

Speaker 5 (28:57):
That's not how we gods conduct examinations and make judgments.
This should be about what's true, not what's rhetorically persuasive.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Zeus, however, found a way to satisfy both his sons
while also keeping the party going into overtime.

Speaker 9 (29:13):
I see no reason we cannot let them deliver spieces.
We will time them with a water clock. Then after
that we will have a question and answer period where
we can put their ideas to the test.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Dionysus poured a couple cheap shots.

Speaker 6 (29:30):
Don't use a.

Speaker 7 (29:31):
Water clock tree Janner Alexander might think it's full of nectar,
and chug it all and there will be none left
for the other contestants.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
The Sidon called Dionysus out on this.

Speaker 7 (29:43):
Excuse me, but it's not my water but your beverage that.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
Those two are fond of Dionysus.

Speaker 7 (29:52):
You should be more worried about your vineyards than my springs.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
That's not some sense into Dionysus. So they shut up
and turn their attention back to the contestants. Since Hermes
had begun sounding the keynote.

Speaker 8 (30:08):
Now let the games begin and store the finest prizes.
It's time to go all in and not be temporizers.
Now heed my proclamation, You kings of yesteryear, who mastered
many nations in wars of sharpened spears, Now your sharpened
minds are key to victory. Intelligence decides your present rivalry.

(30:30):
Great wisdom, some suppose, is best in livelihood, to others
harming foes and doing friends much good. Still others lust
for pleasure is earned by their employment, its food and sex.
They treasure which brings their eyes enjoyment, and wearing jeweled
rings and clothes so soft and loose to them are
blessed things. But who will win?

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Ask Zeus. After Hermes delivered this keynote, the contestants drew lots.
By some lucky coincidence, Julius Caesar, the man who loved
being number one and everything, got to speak first. However,
this made him so insufferably arrogant that Alexander nearly boycotted
the whole contest. Thankfully, Heracles gave him the pep talk

(31:13):
and got him to stick around. In any case, Alexander
ended up getting to speak second. But after that, each
contestant just happened to draw lots in the chronological order
of their respective reigns. Octavian, then Trajan, followed by Marcus
and Constantine last, and so Julius Caesar led it off.

Speaker 6 (31:34):
Jove and the fellow gods.

Speaker 16 (31:36):
I was happily born after a host of great men
in the greatest city on Earth, Roma, who reigns over
so many more cities than any before her, that any
other city would rejoice in winning second place. For what
other city with a population of only three thousand that
its founding conquered the ends of the earth in under sixes.

(32:01):
All other nations produced so many valiant soldiers and law
givers who honors the gods as we do. And I,
born in so great and so marvelous a city, managed
to surpass the achievements of not only my contemporaries, but
also those of her whole history. And I know it

(32:22):
to be a fact that none of my fellow citizens
would ever even challenge my claim to first place. But
if Alessandro here has the nerve to do so, tell
me which of his achievements could he ever compare to
mine his conquest of Persia? I suppose ha, if only
he saw how many victories I racked up against Pompeo,

(32:46):
How could Alessandro possibly think that Dariuto was a more
formidable general than Pompeo? To Which of them did the
most valiant army pledge their loyalty, even the best fighters.
Formally that Darius command the carry made up only a
tiny fraction of Pompeo's forces.

Speaker 6 (33:06):
But Pompeo also commanded the men.

Speaker 16 (33:09):
From Europa, who made every Asiatico that brought war to
their doorstep turn tailor run and out of the Europe,
he commands the bravest soldiers, I mean the men of Illyria,
Gallia and Italia. But speaking of Gallia, shall we compare
Alessandro's Balkan campaigns to my wholesale conquest of Gallia. Alessandro

(33:35):
crossed the river Danubia once I bridged the River Reno twice.
And then there's my campaigns in Germania. Alessandro never faced
any of those nations, but I challenged the Arioisto. Furthermore,
I was the first Romano bold enough to sail the
outer sea.

Speaker 6 (33:55):
Now, perhaps this acting itself is.

Speaker 16 (33:57):
No gay marvel, but it is the boats that deserves admiration.
And in this I even outdid myself when I was
the first to jump down from my sheep. I haven't
even mentioned the tribes of Elvetzia, or Spana or Gallia,
where I subjected more than three hundred cities and no
fewer than two million people to the dominion of Roma.

(34:21):
And I have yet to tell you the most impressive
of my achievements and those involving the greatest risk, namely
that I was forced to overcome in battle my fellow
invincible and indomitable citizens of Roma. Or would you prefer
to judge us by the number of battles we fought.
I thought three times as many battles as those so

(34:44):
called historians of his claim Alessandro thought, surely they exaggerate.
Or how about the number of prisoners taken? I not
only subjugated the majority of Asia, but over Ropa as well.
When Sandro traveled to a Jito to go sideeseing, I
mastered the country while I was master of ceremonies. Now,

(35:08):
would you like to judge how either of us showed
mercy to the vanquish That even my enemies received pardons
from me and lady just tas and knows how that
repaid me for that. With Alessandro, on the other hand,
not even his friends were safe from home, let alone
his enemies. What's that, Alessandro? You think you can still

(35:32):
claim victory over me? What you and all the others
simply forfeit the contest right now? Or will you force
me to describe the cruelty with which you treated the
Tabanni in contrast to the clemency with which I treated
the Alvezzi.

Speaker 6 (35:48):
You burned people's cities to the ground.

Speaker 16 (35:51):
I rebuilt cities burnt down by their own citizens, Was
he really so hard for you to control ten thousand
Gracchi when I held my own against one hundred and
fifty thousand Galley. I could go on like this, and
there have plenty more to say about myself and Alessandro here,

(36:11):
but I was simply too busy to have much practice
in ordertory. So please forgive me if I say no more.
Judge me equally for both what I've said and why
I have not said. If you judge me fairly, you
will surely grant me first place.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Caesar actually wanted to say more, but Alexander, who had
barely contained himself so far, now reached the breaking point
and launched all his pent up rage and rivalrous energy
into the following speech.

Speaker 17 (36:41):
Zeus and fellow gods, how long must I keep quiet
and put up with this outrageous person?

Speaker 8 (36:46):
Can't you see?

Speaker 17 (36:47):
There's no end to him praising himself and slandering me.
He should have dispensed doing either of these things. And
even though I think they're equally annoying, it was even
more unnecessary that he vinified my own achievements, despite the
fact that he modeled his.

Speaker 8 (37:03):
Whole career upon my own.

Speaker 17 (37:05):
The nerve of this man so utterly shameless that he
goes around lampooning his own idols.

Speaker 6 (37:11):
Have you forgotten, Caesar.

Speaker 17 (37:13):
How you broke down weeping whenever you read a history
of my exploits. It was Pompey that inflated your ego.
Pompey a man puffed up by his countryman, but in
reality and nobody he triumphed over Africa. You say, hardly
an accomplishment only made famous by the Consoles kissing his ass.
Then there's the war against Spartacus that wasn't even fought

(37:36):
against real men, just a host of worthless slaves. And besides,
it was really Crassus and Gellius who put down that revolt,
Pompey simply etched his name on it. And what about
Armenia and that whole part of the world. Lucullis earned
that victory, but Pompey got the triumph, and so the
people of Rome kept on idolizing him and gave him

(37:58):
the title Pompy there as if he were greater than
anyone who came before him. Tell me what did Pompey
ever accomplish that was on par with Marius the Scipios
or Camellus, who's now sitting beside Cornus over there, for
resurrecting his city when it had all but fallen. None
of those men ever took credit for someone else's achievements.

Speaker 6 (38:18):
If they did, it.

Speaker 17 (38:19):
Would be like if some bloke came along and put
a coat of paint on a public monument that was
built and funded by other people, and then put his
name on it. That's exactly what Pompey did, putting his
name on other people's achievements, when it's the architects and
laborers themselves who deserve the most prestigious titles. So it's
hardly surprising you defeated Pompey. He was no lion but

(38:41):
a mangy fox scratching his itches. The only thing he
had going for him was Lady Fortune standing beside him
for so long. No sooner did she abandon him than
he was swiftly defeated. And not only that, you overcame
him without an iota of military expertise. That's bloody obvious
from the fact that you lost the Battle of Durrakium

(39:01):
to him after you ran shorter provisions. Don't you know
that's the worst miscalculation a general can make or pomp.
He had to do after that was fight a war
of attrition and avoid pitched battles. But either because he
was an incompetent idiot or because he had no control
over the citizens under his command, he failed to press
his advantage. In the end, it wasn't your superior strategy

(39:25):
that defeated him, but his own strategic errors. The Persian
armies that fell to my valor, on the other hand,
were all around handsomely provisioned and experienced. But claiming to
be the best man and best ruler shouldn't be just
about achievements.

Speaker 8 (39:40):
But about just achievements.

Speaker 17 (39:43):
In attacking Persia, I was seeking justice on behalf of Greece,
and if I waged war against any Greeks, it was
not my intention to do them harm, but to stop
those Greeks who are preventing me from crossing over to
Persia and avenging them. You vanquished Gauls and Germans. You
said that was all a prelude to declaring war on
your own country. Could there be anything less righteous or

(40:06):
more abominable than that? But let's return to the topic
of those ten thousand.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
Greeks you called despicable.

Speaker 17 (40:13):
Have you forgotten that you Romans had descended from Greeks
that had colonized most of Italy. I've known this for
a fact, but now I'm starting to question it.

Speaker 6 (40:23):
Now, let's talk about your next.

Speaker 17 (40:24):
Door neighbors, a little confederation of Greeks called the Aetolian League,
you know, the ones you Romans put so much effort
into making your friends and allies. Went for whatever reason
you waged war on them. Later on, how much blood
and treasure did you spend trying to force them into submission?
And that was at a time when Greece was already
reaching old age, you could say, and against a tiny

(40:47):
region that hardly anyone in Greece had heard of during
the classical period. But if you barely succeed against the Aetolians,
imagine how you fare in battle if Greece was at
its peak and united against you. Remember how Piis of
Epirus made you cower in fear when he crossed the Adriatic.
Then how dare you try to diminish my wholesale conqueress

(41:09):
of the Persian Empire when you've spent over three hundred
years fighting the Parthians who ruled but a small fraction
of Persian territory across the Tigris, and yet you still
haven't reduced it to a province.

Speaker 8 (41:21):
And what's stopping you.

Speaker 17 (41:23):
I'll tell you what's stopping you. It's those Persian mounted archers.
Just ask Mark Antony about them, you know, the one
who learns everything about generalship from you. Meanwhile, it took
me not even a decade to breeze through those lands
and conquer my way to the heart of India, and
you think you have the goal to challenge me. I've

(41:45):
been marshaling field army since I was a wee lad,
and while the praises of historians will never match the
magnitude of my achievements, the memory of them will live
on as long as life itself. In that respect, I've
matched the labours of the only king I serve, the
only model I imitate, I mean, the invincible hero Heracles.

(42:06):
And only my ancestor Achilles can rival me in that respect,
since he emulated Heracles as well, in so far as
a mere human can follow in the footsteps of a god.
As for the rest of you, gods, I think I've
told you enough as I ought in defense of myself
against Caesar's accusations, though it were better to just ignore him.
But if I did commit any act of cruelty, it

(42:28):
was entirely against.

Speaker 15 (42:29):
Those who deserved it.

Speaker 17 (42:31):
Most often these were repeat offenders, but also those who
didn't follow protocol. And besides, even when the circumstances demanded it,
I still came to regret it later on. We all
make mistakes, but it's in the spirit of remorse that
saves us by making us all the wiser. But as
for those who made it their aim to continually piss
me off, I think I had every right to show

(42:54):
no mercy.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Alexander spoke more like a soldier than Caesar did, but
it was time for Poseidon's lackey to pass the water
clock onto the next contestant, Octavian. Poseidon, however, allotted Octavian
less water than for Caesar and Alexander, who both went
over their time limit. But Poseidon was also still mad
at Octavian for his hubris, for his claim that he

(43:19):
would defeat Sextus Pompey quote in spite of Neptune end quote.
Octavian acknowledged this, and in his quick thinking, decided to
streamline his speech by not talking about other people.

Speaker 18 (43:32):
Jupiter and fellow gods. I will refrain from getting my
hands dirty dragging others' achievements through the mud. I'll focus
my speech exclusively on my own. Much like the noble Alexander. There,
I took charge of the state as a mere teenager.
While I'm also a match from my father Caesar here

(43:54):
and that I campaigned successfully in Germania. Likewise, I got
pulled into to a series of civil wars, which I
concluded with a victory at Sea off Actium by Land.
I vanquished Brutus and Cassius at Philippi. While you could
call Pompey son sexist, amir side quest in my grand strategy.

(44:16):
But besides committing to battle, I also committed myself to
philosophy so firmly that I encouraged everyone to speak to
me as an equal, especially Athenodorus of Kanana. I never
resented his honest advice, but welcomed it, as it came
from a man I honored like a tutor, a father.
Even likewise, I counted Audius of Alexandria a dear friend

(44:40):
and constant companion, and some I cannot be charged with
a single offense against philosophy. As for my participation in
the civil wars that so often brought Rome to the
brink of ruin. I took it upon myself to manage
her affairs in such way that, by the grace of
you Gods, she will remain as resilient as forged steel.

(45:02):
How did I do it? Bistoically resisting the desire for
unlimited conquest. No I thought it all through for Rome's sake,
that she should only expand to the two boundaries that
nature had provided her, the Dnu ben Euphrdi's rivers. I mean,
once I had bent the Scythians and Thracians to my will,
I acknowledged that you Gods extended the length of my reign.

(45:23):
Not so that I could keep on fighting a continuous
series of wars. No, I devoted that time of peace
to legislation and to reforming a system that the lust
for warfare had broken. I accomplished this, I believe, because
I listened to a council advisors that was on par
with the best of any ruler before me. In fact,

(45:44):
if you would let me be so bold, I'll say
I had the best counselors of anyone who were ever
granted such power and The reason is that some of
those rulers let unnecessary warfare be the death of them,
prosecuting one campaign after another, like they're one of those
obnoxious individuals who like to go around pursuing people. Others

(46:04):
perished because they were consumed by luxurious living. Some even
while in campaign, even when they triumphed, they cared more
for debauchery and indulgence than for anything like honor and
glory or their own self preservation. It turns out, as
for my record in these matters, after a full review

(46:25):
of it, I don't think I'll rank low in this contest.
But it's really up to you God's, so I'm bound
to accept any result.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
After Octavian, it was Trajan's turn to have the floor.
Trajan was no incompetent orator, but he was lazy, intended
to have Lucius Surah write speeches for him. Even now,
he avoided giving a formal speech and instead tried parading
before the gods the insignia of his triumphs over Dasia
and Parthia, and shouting at them that if it weren't

(47:24):
for his old age, he would have finished the job
annexing Parthia. Silenus didn't find this excuse acceptable.

Speaker 3 (47:31):
What a silly man you are. You reigned for what
twenty years? Alexander over here only needed twelve. Don't complain
that you didn't have enough time when you spent so
much of an insensuous living.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
This biting comment got Trajan piping mad, and while he
was often too drunk to showcase his rhetorical abilities, this
time his enophilia didn't hold him back.

Speaker 19 (47:58):
Hobel Fellow Gotch came to power. The empire was weak,
you could even say it was hypnotized, possessed by the
titany of Domiciano, who would rather stay put in Roma
than punish Dathia for its outrageous But then I came
anome and became the only emperor determined enough to reduce
to a Roman province any territory on the far side

(48:21):
of the river Danubio. And to do so required me
to vanquish the Dathius, who were the greatest warriors who
ever lived. You see, the Dathius and unjust born, brave warriors.
They also hold in high regard the teachings of Thalmoxies,
and so they believed that they never actually die, but
transmigrate into other bodies therefore they are more willing to

(48:44):
die than others are to go on holiday. Despite this,
my conquest of Datia only took about five years to
complete in the eyes of all my subjects. Furthermore, I
gained the reputation as the most merciful of any monarch
who ever lived. That is a called hard fact that
no one, not even Julio Firsa here Kelly and I

(49:06):
was even reluctant to make war on Partia until the
instice is demanded it.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
And when they did.

Speaker 19 (49:12):
Demand it, I took action against them, and wasn't held
back by the fact that I had reached the age
when a souldier may be honorably discharged. Given this record
of my achievements, it is only right that you honor
me above all the other contestants more than any of them.
I should mercy to my subject's, terror to my enemies,

(49:35):
and reverence for Philosophia, who descended from you gods.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
That was trade in speech. He certainly seemed to have
outperformed all the others in regards to clemency, and the
gods made it clear that they respond especially well to
this quality. As Marcus Aurelius was getting ready to speak. Next,
Silenus was making side shatter with Dionysus.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
Ooh, here comes that stoic, for I wonder what kind
of wacky paradoxes and crazy theories he throw a hoss.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
Marcus kept his eyes fixed on Zeus and the rest
of the gods. He refused to give a speech.

Speaker 11 (50:13):
Zeus and fellow gods, is this contest really necessary? And
do I really have to give a speech? You all
know everything about me. If you didn't, then it would
be appropriate to tell you there's nothing you don't already know,
because nothing can be hidden from you. So judge me
as you see fit.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
This was a surprising development in which Marcus proved himself exceptional,
but especially for wisdom, which I would define as the
saying goes as knowing exactly when it's best to speak
and when to keep your mouth shut. So it was
finally Constantine's turn to give a speech. When he had
first entered the lists, he was full of confidence, but

(50:56):
now seeing how utterly his own achievements paled in compared
to all the others, really changed his perspective. To his credit,
he did overthrow a couple of usurpers, but Maxentius was
a wimp and hardly soldierly material, while Licinius was an
old geezer with chronic bad luck. Both were the scum
of the earth and cursed by the gods. Constantine's foreign policy,

(51:20):
on the other hand, was a total farce, since all
he did was throw money at the problem, buying off
any foreign threats. So rather than worry about this, Constantine
now turned his attention to Lady Luxury, who was hanging
out by the gates of the moon, far away from
the gods. Constantine really had the hats for her and

(51:41):
wouldn't stop staring at her. But even though the contest
no longer mattered to him, still he felt that he
had to say something for himself.

Speaker 15 (51:52):
I'm better than the rest of these blokes.

Speaker 20 (51:53):
And here's why Alexander only had to face Asiatic barbarians.
But I duped it out with Germans and even my
fellow Romans. So did Julius Caesar and Octavian. Yet when
they made war upon their own citizens, it was against
men of honor and nobility. I, on the other hand,
marched against the vileist.

Speaker 15 (52:12):
And most abominable Usurpers.

Speaker 20 (52:14):
And my act of bravery against Usurpers is also why
I'm a better choice than Trajan.

Speaker 15 (52:19):
Sure, he added territory to the empire, but I added
back at least as much.

Speaker 20 (52:24):
And I reckon that regaining lost territory is just as good,
if not better, than gaining it in the first place.
As for Marcus here, well, he disqualified himself by refusing
to say anything about himself.

Speaker 2 (52:37):
At this point, Salinus butted in with a question.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
But Constantine, aren't these achievements you're presenting us nothing but
gardens of Adonnas?

Speaker 15 (52:47):
What do you mean gardens of Adonis? I don't get
the reference.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
Well, Adonas was Aphrodite's boyfriend, you see, and women would
plant flowers in his memory by taking some pot shirts
and a little bit of soil into a planter, so
that as soon as they bloom, they start withering away.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Constantine finally got the joke, and what it said about
his whole career. What a shame. There was then a
period of silence. The contestants assumed the gods would now
vote for the winner, and it was only a matter
of time. But that wasn't yet what the gods had
in mind, since they still needed the contestants to spell
out the motives behind their achievements, rather than judging them

(53:28):
based on the achievements themselves. They well knew that Lady
Luck had a heavy hand in those achievements, and she
herself was there on the sidelines, heckling all the contestants.
The exception was Octavian, because he always gave her due credit.
But the gods didn't make her the referee in this competition. No,
they handed that job to Hermes, and it was time

(53:49):
for him to begin the question and answer around. He
began with Alexander.

Speaker 8 (53:55):
Alexander, what do you think is best in life? In
other words, what goal did you have in mind that
led you to do what you did, and, for that matter,
to have done to you?

Speaker 15 (54:07):
What was done to you?

Speaker 6 (54:08):
What is best in life?

Speaker 17 (54:11):
Victory? Victory over everything?

Speaker 8 (54:14):
And how certain are you that you achieved this?

Speaker 15 (54:18):
Very certain?

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Dionysus burst out laughing and let him have it.

Speaker 7 (54:25):
Can you even count how many times my daughters achieved
victory over you?

Speaker 2 (54:31):
By my daughter's Dionysus was alluding to wine grapes. In
other words, they were making fun of Alexander's drinking problem. Alexander, however,
had plenty of the logical maneuvers he learned from Aristotle.

Speaker 17 (54:42):
Up at sleeve, I did mean victory over inanimate objects.
This contest isn't about that. What I mean is victory
over all human beings and the whole animal kingdom for
that matter.

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Silenus pretended to be impressed.

Speaker 4 (54:58):
Oh the dialect City two can play at that game.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
Now tell me what category would you put yourself in?

Speaker 4 (55:07):
Inanimate objects or animate living things?

Speaker 15 (55:10):
Oh?

Speaker 17 (55:11):
Shut it, animate, sir, I was magnanimous, so much so
that I could swear I'd become a god, or was
even born one.

Speaker 3 (55:21):
All the same, Alexander, you were often defeated by yourself,
by your emotions, by pain, by any such thing that
overcame your wits and damaged your brain.

Speaker 17 (55:34):
Hold on, First of all, wouldn't you call conquering yourself
and being conquered by yourself the same thing? Second, my
whole argument is about victory over others, not myself.

Speaker 3 (55:47):
Oh you and your logic, how skillfully you call out
my bullshit. But anyway, remember that time you were wounded
while storming a city in India. You'd have been an
inanimate object if possessed hadn't been there to drag you
to safety. So tell me were you defeated by the
man who wounded you? Or did you defeat him?

Speaker 17 (56:08):
Yes, I defeated him. Him and that whole city are
for a successful siege.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Oh no, no, no, my divine Alexander, you most certainly
did not. You were lying in the dust like Hector
and the Iliad, pathetic and practically lifeless. No, it was
others who fought your battles and won your victories.

Speaker 17 (56:30):
Yes, but they were under my command.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
But how could you command any army when you were
practically being carried out for a funeral. Here's a snippet
of Euripides. You must surely know the Greeks have a
custom that should be corrected when enemy spoils by one's
troops are erected.

Speaker 2 (56:49):
Dionysus cut him off.

Speaker 6 (56:51):
Daddy time out.

Speaker 7 (56:53):
If you keep abusing Alexander like this, you might end
up like Clitus.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Alexander overheard this comment and was stunned into silence. Then
he turned deep red and burst into tears. This conversation
was over. Hermis then turned to Julius Caesar and asked
him the same question.

Speaker 8 (57:14):
Caesar, what was your goal in life?

Speaker 16 (57:18):
To be numerouno and never to be or even thought
to be numero due to anyone in my country.

Speaker 8 (57:27):
Would you mind clarifying that uno, and what exactly wisdom, eloquence, generalship,
political power.

Speaker 16 (57:37):
Ideally, I would have lied to be numerouno in everything,
in truth and in reputation, telling that I put the
greatest effort into being the most powerful citizen of Roma.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Silenez took over the discussion, and did you acquire such
great power?

Speaker 4 (57:56):
Yes?

Speaker 16 (57:56):
Absolutely, I practically became the master of Roma.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
So you did acquire such power, okay, But you were
powerless to make your citizens actually love you. It was
all an act, you playing the part of a generous benefactor,
and all of them shamelessly kissing your ass.

Speaker 16 (58:18):
You don't think I was beloved by the popolo Romano
when they drove Bruto and Cassio out of the city.

Speaker 4 (58:26):
Not when they assassinated you.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
What did the puppolo Romano do then? Oh right, they
elected them consuls. No, the people turned on them out
of love, not for you, but for money.

Speaker 4 (58:41):
As soon as.

Speaker 3 (58:41):
They heard the contents of your will read out, they
realized what a fine reward was offered for taking vengeance
on your assassins.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
This was the final word on Caesar So now Hermie
has posed the question to Octavian.

Speaker 8 (58:55):
Augustus, won't you please tell us what you think is
best in life?

Speaker 18 (59:00):
To be a good ruler?

Speaker 8 (59:02):
Define good? Even the most malicious rulers claim to be
good ones. Take those plague infested tyrants of Syracuse, for instance,
like Dionysius, or even worse Agathocles.

Speaker 18 (59:15):
You gods already know what I mean by good. You
remember when I prayed to you on behalf of my
grandson Gaius, as he was heading off to war, that
you grant him Caesar's courage, Pompey's cleverness, and my own
good fortune.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Silenus was added again.

Speaker 3 (59:33):
It sure is ironic that this doll manufacturer is listing
off all sorts of things that need the help of
real gods.

Speaker 18 (59:40):
Doll manufacturer, that sounds ridiculous. Why are you calling me that?

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Because, my dear Augustus, they manufactured dolls just like you
manufactured gods, starting with Caesar here, but he was only
the first.

Speaker 2 (59:57):
Octavian showed remarks for this and did not argue against it.
Hern Is now fixed his sights on Trajan.

Speaker 8 (01:00:06):
Trajan, what was your intention in doing the things that
you did?

Speaker 19 (01:00:11):
I strove to achieve the same goals as Alejandro here,
but with more control over myself.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
Silenus begged to differ more control.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Ha, you were just as self defeating as Alexander. He
mostly lost control of his temper, but you lost control
of yourself to something far less noble, I mean, the
most disgusting and scandalous pleasures.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Dionysus had had enough with Silenus.

Speaker 6 (01:00:39):
To hell with you, Daddy.

Speaker 7 (01:00:41):
You're constantly butting in too, make each contestant the butt
of your jokes and leaving them without a word in
their defense. Now you better be careful how you handle
Marcus here. The other contestants may have left an opening
to exploit with your satire, But Marcus strikes me as
that proverbial man in somonoity, built with four right angles

(01:01:02):
and zero wrong ones.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Hermes turned to face Marcus, what do.

Speaker 8 (01:01:09):
You think is best in life? Marcus? What's the end
to your means?

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Out of modesty? Marcus was a bit of a low
talker to take the gods as models. At first glance,
this scened not such a bad answer, but even the
best so far. In any case, Herms didn't want to
bother scrutinizing it. He knew Marcus would have an equally
clever response to any objection, and all the other gods
acquiesced in this, all except Silenus Dionysius.

Speaker 3 (01:01:39):
I don't care what you told me. I'm not letting
this sophist get off scott free. Now tell me, Marcus,
why did you drink wine instead of nectar and eat
bread instead of ambrosia like we gods do.

Speaker 11 (01:01:52):
That's not what I meant by taking the gods as models.
It had nothing to do with my food and beverage choices.
Then again, I did nourish my body out of the
belief that your bodies too needed to be nourished by
the smoke of sacrifices. But maybe I was wrong in

(01:02:12):
that belief. And I suppose it's not with our bodies
but our minds that we should take the gods as models.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
This came out of left field and caught Silenas off guard.

Speaker 3 (01:02:24):
Okay, maybe your answer isn't totally off the mark, but
you still need to explain what you think.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
Taking the gods as models.

Speaker 11 (01:02:31):
Consists of have as few needs as possible yourself, and
help other people as many as you can as much
as you can.

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
You mean you were entirely without needs.

Speaker 11 (01:02:45):
I wasn't, but I suppose that old body of mine
did have a few.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
All Right, you went on that score. Well done, Marcus.
But I've got other ammunition in my arsenal. There's still
of your son Commodus and your wife Faustina. Having Faustina
deified highly inappropriate. Letting Commodus inherit the empire illogical.

Speaker 11 (01:03:11):
But the gods modeled those actions too. For Faustina's deification,
I can appeal to the words of Homer when he
said that a good and sensible husband loves and cherishes
his wife. As for making Commodus my heir, I can
make an.

Speaker 4 (01:03:27):
Excuse out of Zeus.

Speaker 11 (01:03:29):
Tell me what did he say in the Iliad when
he was giving aries a tongue lashing.

Speaker 9 (01:03:35):
Oh, it would have blasted you with thunderbolts long ago
if I didn't love you as my true born son.

Speaker 4 (01:03:43):
See.

Speaker 11 (01:03:45):
And besides, I had no idea Commodos would turn out
so rotten. You know how teenagers are with their violent
swings between virtue and vice. Had I seen him careening
down the path to no good, I wouldn't have put
any power in his hands, But as it turned out,
that power corrupted him. And again I was simply imitating

(01:04:06):
Achilles the way I treated Faustina, while Zeus was my
model for how I treated Commodus. And besides, I was
hardly doing anything unpresidented. It always has been the custom
for children to inherit their parents' property. It's what every
parent hopes for. And I was hardly the first emperor
to deify an empress. Faustina was but one of many

(01:04:29):
others who received such an honor. Maybe whoever established these
presidents hadn't really thought it through, but it just seems
wrong to exempt my closest family members from a practice
that's been around for so long. But the gods would
have already known all this, even if I didn't just
lose control of myself and go off the rails into

(01:04:51):
some lengthy defense speech after all, So please accept this apology,
Zeus and fellow gods. Instead of that one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
Marcus finally stopped talking, so hermis now let Constantine answer
the question, what.

Speaker 8 (01:05:07):
Do you think is best in life? Constantine?

Speaker 20 (01:05:11):
Maximizing profits, Make as much money as you can and
spend it on everything your heart desires, and spoil your
friends with it too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:19):
Silenus irrupted in laughter and came down on him hard.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
Oh Man, Constantine, you really let yourself go. You should
have gone into the banking business. But with that lifestyle
of yours, you're better off opening a candy store or
a beauty parlor. Your hair do and makeup already gave
that away, But now it's your very thoughts that find
you guilty as charged.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
There was another period of silence in which the gods
all cast their secret ballots. While many votes went to Marcus,
Zeus decided to deliberate with his father Cronus in private.
When they came out of this conclave, they tasked Hermie
with reporting the results.

Speaker 8 (01:06:02):
Gentlemen, while it's true that you showed up for competition,
we gods follow a different set of rules when it
comes to passing judgments. While the victor may celebrate, the
vanquished are no worse off. Therefore, we bid every one
of you to come up and sit beside the god
of your choice and live life like you've lived before,

(01:06:24):
under the guidance of a divine patron. Gentlemen, make your selection.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
As soon as Hermes ended this announcement, Alexander made a
bee line straight for Heracles. Then Octavian ran to Apollo,
while Marcus went in for a group hug with Zeus
and Cronus, but Julius Caesar was quite disoriented and kept
wandering in circles until mighty Aphrodite and Ares had enough
of this pitiful sight and called him over. Trajan hustled

(01:06:51):
in the same direction as Alexander and took his seat
next to him. Constantine, however, searched in vain for the
model of his own lifestyle among the gods, so he
turned his attention back to Lady Luxury and ran straight
into her tender embrace. She dressed him in a long
flowing coat of many colors and tricked him out with cosmetics.

(01:07:13):
Then she led him away to Lady Indulgence. Jesus was
also shacking up with her, and Constantine found him there,
preaching to the masses.

Speaker 21 (01:07:22):
Come to me, all you seducers, all you murderers, all
you defilers and perverts, Come to me, and be not afraid,
for I need only wash you with this here water,
and I will make you clean. Wallow and sin after sin,
and I will make you clean again, so long as

(01:07:44):
you beat your chests and bang your.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Heads Constantine greeted Jesus with a smile and summoned his
children to him. But as soon as Constantine the Second,
Constantious the Second, and Constans all departed from the Parliament
of the Gods, the furies descended upon them with a vengeance,
tormenting father and sons alike, no less for their rejection
of the true gods than for spilling the blood of

(01:08:08):
their own family. Zeus, however, granted them a reprieve from
their suffering in recognition of their dynastic forebears, Claudius Gothicus
and Constantius Chlorus. But Hermes reserved the last word for myself.

Speaker 8 (01:08:23):
Julian, I will grant you access to the special knowledge
of Father Mithrus. Obey his commandments. In so long as
you live, you'll be moored in a safe harbor by
a line that never phraates. And when the time comes
for you to set sail into the beyond, your highest
hopes will be fulfilled. For this God will stand by

(01:08:44):
your side as a navigator and a friend.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
Thank you all for listening. This was so much fun
to be a part of, even if I judged my
own acting skills listening back, It's okay I'm just thrilled
to have had a place for it, for Jeremy to
put this piece out into the world. I would love
to do more full cast recordings like this, like not
that I have the time to coordinate something so epic,
which is why it was really exciting that Jeremy wanted
to do it all. But Gods is it fun So

(01:09:28):
I mean, who knows in the meantime what a perfect
one off? This was honestly like a bunch of Roman emperors,
but they made it so great all the same. Let's
Talk about MIT's Baby is written and produced by me
Live Albert, though not in this case. MICHAELA. Smith is
the Hermes to My Olympians, better known as the assistant producer.
Laura Smith is the production assistant and audio engineer. This

(01:09:51):
special episode, though, was translated from the ancient Greek and
directed by Jeremy Swist. It was recorded by Jeremy Swist
and fellow AST members. Recordings were engineered by Christopher Swist
at even Fall Studios in Spofford, New Hampshire, US and
produced in loving memory of Laurence P.

Speaker 7 (01:10:10):
Swist.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
The podcast is part of the iHeart podcast Network. Listen
on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Help me
continue bringing you the world of Greek mythology and the
ancient Mediterranean by becoming a patron, where you will get
bonus episodes and more. Visit patreon dot com, slash myths Baby,
or click the link in this episode's description. I am
live and I love this shit.