ep 37-Thoughts on NFL Rooney Rule proposal, most controversial calls in NFL history, and what Michael Jordan and Dean’s brother have in common

Thoughts on NFL Rooney Rule proposal, most controversial calls in NFL history, and what Michael Jordan and Dean’s brother have in common

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Good Calls with Dean Blandino, a production of
I Heart Radio. Hey what's up? Dean Blandina. Welcome to
another episode of Good Calls as always, joined by Travis
Hansen and Joe Madrid. Quick quick introductions. No pleasant trees,

(00:23):
Let's get right to it. No pleasant trees, alright? You
know does that? That's who's the producer that always does that,
the Big ten when we uh, we check in Fox,
foxes whatever. We check in with um with the talent,
which is Matt Milan, and who's Kevin Kevin Coogler. We

(00:44):
check in with Matt and Kevin. And I know Matt
Milan going back years from when he was with the
NFL with the Lions in the NFL Competition Committee. We
always like to check in. And Bart's like, okay, all
right enough with the pleasant trees. So looks and I
never know if he's serious or not. Either he's I mean,
he's not doing in the meat way, but I think
he's kind of I think it's become like a thing
now and uh, but let's go, let's get right into it. Um,

(01:08):
let's talk a little, let's talk a little NFL obviously,
this was this was big news, UM, the the proposed
changes and UH additions, I guess to the Rooty rule.
We talk about minority hiring in the NFL, and and
so UM you know this this is a significant the
potential for this, the NFL proposals that will be put

(01:29):
forth to membership and voted on UM A lot of
discussion around minority hiring. You think about the minority head
coaches in the NFL, there are only four, UM who
were the four right, Mike Tomlin, Brian Flores, Anthony Lynn,
and Ron Ribert. You think about gms in the NFL,
only two minority gms Andrew Berry with with Cleveland and

(01:52):
Chris Greer with with Miami. So obviously when you talk
about those numbers not not very good. The NFL has
not done a great job in this year and never
had a never had a black team president. UM. And
and I think this is something that you know, my
former colleague Troy Vincent at the NFL has this is
a big, big thing for him, and I know he's

(02:14):
been working tirelessly on this. And and so I'm interested
in what you guys think because I've read so much
about this and I get it. I get what the
NFL is trying to do. But when you start, when
you start incentivizing teams UM to make minority hirings with
draft positions, all right, you're talking about moving up if

(02:35):
you hire a minority head coach or my minority GM,
you're moving up draft positions. In the third round, it
was something like three picks for a head coach and
ten picks for a GM six I think for a
head coach, ten GM UM compensatory fourth round picks if
you lose UM, if you lose a minority in terms
of to another team. So so I've heard mixed reactions

(02:59):
and the one reaction that that kind of that kind
of resonated with me. There were two that jumped out.
I don't know if you saw if you saw Anthony
Lynn's comments, Um, you know Anthony Lynda had coach of
the Chargers, who's who is like we mentioned one of
the minority head coaches. You know, he said, sometimes, um,
you can do the wrong, wrong thing when you're trying

(03:20):
to do the right thing. And I think that was
that that kind of hit me. And then and then
Lewis Riddick. Lewis Riddick from from ESPN, who who has
worked in front office before who has interviewed recently for
GM GM positions and hasn't been able to secure a position.
And he was even more outspoken and he said it

(03:40):
was it was actually, um, you know, it was demeaning
in a way. It was insulting in a way to
an African American candidate to say that I was no
longer being considered on my own merits. I was being
considered because of the potential rewards and and it's kind
of you know, this is a tough spot. It's a

(04:01):
tough thing. What what do you guys, just at first glance,
what do you think? Um, you know about this? I
have to think that that these guys being like, you know,
head coaches and athletes and you know, former athletes and
now going into coaching, like you don't want to feel
like you're getting something and getting something extra because of
who you are, Like, oh, okay, well you get to

(04:22):
shoot your free throws a little bit closer than than
you than these other guys. You got to shoot your
your shots a little bit closer. Like you don't want that,
you want working on How long are you working on that? Analogy? Travis,
I actually just came up with it Now, I didn't
know you were going to bring thing about the free
throw analogy. You're like, what could be what could be
a good way, you know, to to to elaborate on this.

(04:42):
I'm just trying to dumb it down so Joe will
understand that's all. Well it we definitely do we do?
You know? So like you don't these guys, Yeah, did
you hear Joe? I can't even hear him. This might
cut down you to them in the middle of your
bad analogy, but yeah, so you just have to think

(05:04):
that these guys don't want to have to feel like
they're getting, you know, something out of the deal because
of that. And to me it's it's like, yeah, like
Lynn said, you you you definitely want to have you
don't want to have that kind of you don't want
you don't want to have that kind of thing on that. Yeah,
I think. Look, but I think if this and and

(05:27):
you know the Fritz Pollar, the Fritz Pollo alliance, which
which works you know Cyrus Mary and and and Rob
Graves now at that alliance that they work in this
space and working with the NFL for a long time
in terms of minority hiring and the bottom line is
is that when you talk about a league that is
that I don't know what the actual percentages, but when

(05:48):
you talk about a league that is that is a
majority African American on the field, and then you look
at the numbers in front office positions, Um, that's an issue.
And and you can't force people meeting the owners to hire,
you know, someone that they don't want to hire. But
how do we create an environment where where where African
Americans and other minorities are getting these opportunities And I

(06:12):
think anything Lynn mentioned, you know, and Lewis Riddick mentioned,
you know, getting having more opportunities for these minority candidates
to get in front of owners in a social setting,
you know, whether it's at a league meeting or a
leak sanctioned event where they can in a more of
a relaxed atmosphere get to know these people. Because the
bottom line is you're gonna hire someone you're comfortable with,

(06:34):
and can you get truly comfortable with someone meeting them
for the first time and having a two or three
hour interview, you know, it's versus someone that I know,
someone that I've been around, someone that I've had an
interaction with and that's why we end up seeing this cycle,
this recycling of coaches, you know, this carousel, and you
look at head coaches that have been around that that
you know, they weren't successful at one organization and then

(06:57):
they get a reboot in another, and it seems that
most of it, most of them are white head coaches
or white gms. And and how do you how do
you create you know, a more inclusive pipeline. And that's
something you know, it's a challenge, and it's something that
I think this proposal, if this further is the conversation,

(07:18):
and this creates more thoughtful and more thoughtful approach to this.
And maybe it's not this rule, but maybe this this
conversation leads to something that people can agree upon or
people that doesn't involve draft picks. I don't know, I
don't know what the answer is. Um, if we knew
the answer, then that we wouldn't have this issue. You know,
we've dealt with it. We've dealt with on the officiating

(07:39):
side and hiring practices and and minority officials, female officials.
That's why we're gonna bring that question up. Do you
think this has anything to do with opening up the
minority candidates for females as well, not just no question.
And I'll tell you listen if you think the NFL
has been behind in terms of minority, in terms of
African American hirings in front office, they are way behind

(08:01):
when it comes to female When I'm sitting in a
in an in an executive vice president meeting UM at
the NFL, and I look around and there are one,
maybe two women in the room and there's thirty people
in the room. Um, there are when you limit yourself,
And that's the thing. Yes, we want to hire the
best people. We want people to be hired on their
own merits, not how they look. But the thing is,

(08:24):
when you hire from one group and everybody looks the
same and everybody thinks the same, and everybody has the
same experience, you are limiting yourself. You're limiting your You're
limiting the ideas and the potential by bringing people from
different backgrounds that look different, that that that have a
different perspective. And that's the thing. The NFL has such

(08:45):
a long way to go in this area. And I
think you know they're they're certainly behind. You look at
the NBA. I think they're behind. Um. The NBA baseball
has its challenges. Um, you know, certainly the NHL. I
mean that is a is a predominantly white sport and
uh and so. But again it is a this is
a significant issue. And I know the league. This is

(09:06):
not a this is not something they just threw together
at the last minute. This was this was thought out.
But I think when you start talking about award in
draft picks now, it starts to get into that. You know,
if I'm if I'm a minority candidate, I think I'm
gonna take the same approach as a Lewis Riddick and say, hey,
are you are you talking to me? Or are you

(09:26):
gonna hire me? Um, you know, with that being a
factor versus am I the best person for the job?
I don't know. I'm not a minority. I've never walked
in those shoes. But but I can understand that point.
And it's it's just such a it's such a polarizing
you know, reminds it reminds me of back in like
what was it when they're like, you know, we guys

(09:47):
start hiring some Italian Americans and that's how that's how
you got the job. Glad you brought that up. Joe,
because I feel like my people, you know, it's a
very it's it's it's not an been discrimination, but it's
a very like accepted. It's like it's like an in
the closet discrimination. Italian Americans have been have been discriminated against.

(10:09):
What we watch movies? What are we portrayed as? Right? Mobsters?
I just watched Molly's game, Right, what are we? What
are we? What are we most known for? Our Italian
food and pizza and all these things? You know, I'm
glad you brought that up, Joe. The fight continues for

(10:29):
for me and my Italian American friends. Anything else you
want to add to that, Joe, you brought that one up.
I'm just saying, you know, we're not a mobsters, And
I mean it worked out well for for the hiring
of the Italian Americans. I mean, you're you've done a
pretty good job over there. I did. In ninety four,

(10:50):
I did get the opportunity to intern with the National
Football League. The only reason I got that opportunity is
because the girl that worked in HR went to Hopster
of University. I went to Hofstra. She didn't know me,
but she saw Hofstro on my resume. And she put
my resume on top. So right there. I still don't
understand how you can say, but you can't say huge,

(11:15):
huge hosts. You just you should be saying hofstro there's
it's not it's h oh. I can say h o
h u is huge. It just is you grant. I'm sorry,
it's just the way it is. Let's move on, Travis talking.
Let's give us a run down the I. I briefly
looked at the Major League Baseball sixty seven page UM

(11:40):
health and Safety I guess proposal. That's really interesting and
it was pretty in depth, like health and Safety protocol,
it's kind of what it was, and it was. It
was everything from like just no spinning, UM, more severe
penalties for for fights. They don't want to have brawls. Obviously,

(12:02):
you get a bunch of people in in a group
that you have a higher chance of of of spreading
the virus if someone were to have it. UM. You
have people that in the dugouts have to wear masks uh,
team officials. UM. But anyways to get to the point
where they could start playing or see people back on
the fields, we're talking like mid June possibly in the yeah,

(12:24):
in the in the proposal, and this would be bringing
like fifty players to either their home ballparks or Florida
Arizona facilities. This is all still yet to be worked out. Um,
they're like some of the things I saw like people
could be uh forced to not take showers. So here's yeah,

(12:45):
here's the deal. And and this is gonna be talking
about major league baseball players. And most most mazorally baseball
players played the miners and and so they know what
it's like. And this it feels like a return more
to minor league baseball, where there's there's no showering at
the at the stadium. You're either sharing at home or
at the at the hotel, so you go right from

(13:08):
the game to the hotel or back home. Um, no
post game buffets, Um, you talk about players are gonna
be would be in the stands six ft apart. Um,
no sunflower seeds, no, none of that. High five No,
no high fives. No. You talked about the bench clearing brawls,
and certainly there would be. You know, it's hard to say, hey,
no bench clearing brawls because somebody gets emotional, somebody reacts.

(13:32):
They obviously are going to have very very very severe
penalties for bench clearing brawls, almost to the point where
they're almost going to, you know, eliminate them with with
the fear of these penalties. Well, and think about who
this protecting. What was the being what was the major
storyline of the off season, the Astros cheating and all
you you heard about all these guys were gonna get beaned,

(13:53):
like Bregman and Altobe, Like, if those guys are getting bet,
there's no retaliation talking about the Astros not that. Look,
I don't want to I don't want to diminish this
to too, but let's just talk about if anyone benefited
from COVID nineteen. That's what I'm saying, man, I mean,
they have benefited from people, will you know, it will

(14:14):
take a while for people to be like, oh yeah,
those they cheated one of won a World Series. But
this was the story going into the season. They were
gonna be they were vilified, they were gonna be villains
on the road, they were gonna be booed, they were
gonna be beaned. And now I mean they basically gotta
pass and it's not gonna be fansom the stands there.

(14:35):
It's interesting, but but it is the whole thing is
just fascinating in terms of like, you can't you're trying
to legislate contact, right, physical contact, you're trying to to
keep that at a minimum. And when you talk about
all of these sports, I mean, obviously baseball you wouldn't

(14:55):
consider it a contact sport, but you're gonna have plays
where you're gonna have a runner on first base, the
first base is not able to hold him on our collisions. Yeah,
I don't even think about that, right, like you have
to hold that runner on. Is there gonna be no leads? Right?
Plays at second base or under still this place, there's
gonna be contact. You can't take that away. And forget

(15:18):
about football. You can't. Obviously football is a contact sport.
Hockey is a contact sport. Basketball, there's there's contact throughout.
So you're not gonna be able to play these sports
without contact. And that's why some of the players that
I'm reading, they said, look, we get it, the testing,
we get we'll go through all the testing protocols, but
once we're cleared, let's make it as normal as possible. Right,

(15:42):
Because because I don't have it, you don't have it,
why can't we just you know why can't we have
sunflower receipts and it's it goes to the video you
sent us Travis today, I was crying, go on Twitter,
it's Nasau County. This Nasau County official, NASA County tennis ball.
Just looking up Nassau County tennis ball protocol. And I

(16:04):
grew up in Nassau County, which is which is on
Long Island. There's two counties, There's Nasa and Suffolk. Suffolk
is further east. Nassau is right next to New York City.
And she's standing in front of a of a tennis facility,
you know, outdoor tennis courts, with two cops in face masks,
and she's explaining the rules regarding tennis batting back on

(16:25):
the court, getting back on the court. And she starts
off good because she was referring to them as tennis balls.
And then you know, somebody was talking to her saying,
all right, Lisa, refer to them as tennis balls, right,
don't say, and she immediately goes into balls and she's like,
you can kick someone else's balls, but you can't touch them.
And it's like and she can't even keep a straight face. Well,

(16:47):
you hear all the media and all the people that
are attending the event like laughing and giggling in the
two offensives behind her. You can't see their faces, but
you can see they're like bodies, like convulsion, as if
they're laughing. What are we doing? We're sitting in a
room coming up with these rules, spending time. When Joe
and I are gonna go play tennis and I'm gonna

(17:09):
pick up I'm gonna touch his balls and he's gonna
touch my balls. And that's it. And we're talking about
tennis balls and were we've always been talking about phone.
When Joe and I play tennis, we touch each other's balls. Okay,
it's and and and this is I was gonna together.
Who's gonna police that? Every Friday night? It's in seeing

(17:32):
and I understand extraordinary times, but I don't know what
to to go back to the MLB in in the balls,
like they're gonna use balls like one time, like if
if a ball is if a groundball is in play,
you know multiple people are going to touch the ball
and that ball is going to be out, Like so
what is it like half a half of what's the
lifetime of a ball? Like half of I mean, there's

(17:53):
a there's a pretty good I mean, there's pretty good
turnover anyway, um during games. But I gotta imagine this
is gonna be like you can't think about a football game.
You can't. You're bringing new footballs in at certain times,
but you have hurry up offenses, you have things where
you can't just shuffle out of football. If if you know,

(18:14):
after every play a basketball people are people are gonna
touch balls. It's just gonna happen. When what are you
gonna do with all those baseballs now? If you're just
throwing them off the side before they became practice balls
and now you're not gonna use them for practice balls either, Right?
I think you have to use the balls as much
as possible, Travis, And indeed you have to have to

(18:36):
use Can we on a serious note, like what kind
of an umpire is going to enforce a no spitting
ruin baseball? Well, that that's the thing, Like what what
are they gonna do? Like what's the penalty? That's so ridiculous?
This is just so overdone exactly, And then that's what
I mean, and no one knows, like no one knows
for sure, like we still can we let them play,

(18:56):
and we don't know. I'm believing. I don't follow it
as much. I'm not an expert by any means, but
there's no one, no one knows exactly the right protocol,
and so I get it. So we're trying to be
as cautious as possible, but it's I don't know. At
some point, at some point we have to say, okay,

(19:18):
let's let's compromise. The people with with the you know,
the weak immune systems, the people that are in that
that that range, that are that are at most risk.
Those people need to stay in Those people need to
stay protected, and everybody else has to make their own decisions. Yeah,
these are world class athletes. The flu is not trying
to kill him. Michael Jordan played with the flu. Dean No,

(19:41):
we'll get into that. Started into that Travis talk. Okay,
what else? What else is going on? I know NASCAR
got big ratings. I didn't watch. I'm not a Nascar
I've never been, but where the ratings significantly up from
what they normally are. I didn't follow that. I just
I know they were big and more happy within Fox
about it, but you didn't watch it. I didn't catch

(20:04):
it either. I thought that was part of your you
guys did know? I mean, yeah, I probably probably should
have watched it, just you know, to be a company guy.
I was. I was hanging out with the family. We
went to the beach actually, which leads me into the
next story of Newsome. Governor Newsoman California starting to open
things up. Um and he says that that sports could

(20:25):
be played in the state of California as early as
um early June, so in the next few weeks, obviously
without spectators. But yeah, we were out at the beach
on Sunday and and it was it was crazy to
see half the people had masks, half didn't have masks.
Who Travis, if you're I mean, I commend you to
go on to the beach with you, your wife and
your eight kids. How what was the breakdown? Did all

(20:46):
eight of your kids nobody was wearing masks? So the
older ones bear wearing masks. I have two kids in
neither wore masks. We didn't wear masks. Um. We kept
our distance from people. I didn't spit at all, Um,
it didn't. I didn't play with any balls, no, no
beach balls, no volleyballs. Which with the crazy thing about
the volleyball. Is they took the nets down at the beach.

(21:07):
I was that some people can't even play. I don't
know if they've done that at all the beaches, obviously
because I haven't been at the beaches, but that, to
me was was pretty eye opening. That's my favorite way
to play because the boom. But you know, it is
it is interesting. I think California when you think about
professional sports returning, California is a key state. Um, there's

(21:31):
no I mean I was looking at it. California has right,
five baseball teams, four NBA teams, three hockey teams, and
three football teams. No other state has that number. So
so it is key to returning for all of these leagues.
And you know it's it's this is you think about
here in l A County. I think Light County is

(21:53):
going to be one of the last counties to start
to you know, to get back to normal because of
the density of the population and a number of you
know what what they're considering a standard for reopening. But
there are Look, I think we're I think there's some
light at the end of the tunnel. I think that's
we've all been waiting for. I gotta I got a
text message from my the guy that cuts my hair,
that they're going to be opening up, Um, you know

(22:15):
in a in a couple of weeks. You're you're looking
at you know, you could have churches, and you could
have gyms, and you could have all these other things
opening up obviously with revised with revised rules and guidelines.
But I think we're starting to see a little bit
of a light at the end of the tunnel. So
hopefully that means that, you know, the trend is going
in the right direction and uh, and we'll get back

(22:35):
to some sense of normalcy soon. Yeah. So then next
I'll move to the NHL and and the story that's
out there. Obviously, there's a lot of work to be
done here, and that's what the sources stress. There's a
lot of a lot of work to be done, but
they could they could open back up with the twenty
four team playoff format, which to me was kind of cool, like,
this is kind of what we talked about right away

(22:56):
when it first first happened with the pandemic. Is okay, well,
let's just craft the regular season. Let's just let's just
get going back up in June or something and just
do playoffs, So that's kind of what the NHL is
looking at, Like, how would you feel about that? Yeah,
you know, I think it's interesting. I did read that
they were talking about. I think the players Association would

(23:16):
like to play some regular season games before the playoffs,
And I think that makes sense just because think about
playoff hockey, like that's that's another level and you now
you're taking two two and a half months off and
then throwing your body right into that type of intensity.
I think for safety reasons, I think it would make
sense to at least least play a couple of games.

(23:37):
You know, each team play a couple of games, you know,
finish off the standings. But you know, a twenty four
team playoff that that that excites the ship out of
me because I don't care. Look, NHL playoffs to me
is one of the most exciting sports, you know, sporting
environments ever. And and so you're gonna have twenty four

(24:01):
teams um out of twelve from each conference. However they
figure it out, that's exciting to be after two and
a half months of no hockey. So so I'm I'm
excited to hear about it. I do think, you know,
I'd be tough for those players to jump right into
a playoff environment with with after having two and a
half months off. Yeah, you gotta have some kind of
training camp to get these guys back in shape. So,

(24:22):
thinking about these games being played without fans, and hockey
and basketball being home home field advantage, you know, to
the to the end degree, those are the sports that
are probably means the most like, how is that? How
would that even play out with no fans there? Like
it just would it would be weird. I know, Kevin
Harvick who won the NASCAR race, he said it was
it was. It was really just kind of surreal, like

(24:43):
all of a sudden, you're like you win the race
and you're trying to celebrate and you're looking around, but
you know, fans aren't yelling for you, your teammates can't
come near you, like you know, it's it's it's we
talked about with the UFC and not having that. And
then you start to think about, like Joe, the betting lines,
like are you going to see it's Vegas going to
have to adjust betting lines, especially in certain sports like

(25:05):
the NBA won that home court advantage is more prevalent,
you know, I think you're gonna see the betting lines,
you know, adjust it'll be very similar to the beginning
of the of all the seasons. Then three or four
they kind of they start to figure it out, but
you don't know, you know, who's working out, who's sitting
at home meeting pizza. I mean, dude, come in big

(25:26):
time out of shape. So it's definitely gonna be interesting
to see how that all plays out. NBA Travis, what's
the latest on that. Yeah, so the NBA is talking, um,
they could get going pretty soon. You know, obviously they
need some time to get get things going with talk
about getting uh everyone to about seventy games. That's like

(25:46):
five or seven games for some teams. UM. Decision for
from from Commissioner Silver will come in the next few weeks.
And one of the reports was saying the teams are
implored to to get back out there and being kind
of a playoff, um playoff race to finish the season,
and he was he's employed these teams um to play
because Steve Kerr, who is the coach of the Warriors,

(26:09):
who had a ton of injuries to start the year
and are at the very bottom of the West. They
don't even want to finish the games, Like what's the
incentive for teams to come back to play five or
seven games? So so that's like the NHL is kind
of following that guideline, like, okay, those teams are out
of it, why even bring them back? Put them at risk?
The less people that are are you know, playing and
at risk, and you know, less people are gonna get

(26:31):
it's like to stay at home for for them is
coming into play as well. No, it's but then you
think about competitive impact in terms of you know, draft
position and okay, our draft position was based on sixty games.
Their draft position was based on fifty five games. You know,
it's so so many variables. It's it's really crazy to think,
you know, and they their heads must be spinning. Yeah,

(26:52):
these meetings must be crazy, like you have to think
about everything and stuff that you've never even thought. Of course,
it's it's it's crazy and you're and this is, like
I said, we're not going to see anything like this.
Hopefully we don't. We haven't seen anything in our lifetime
and hopefully we won't ever again. Um let's uh, let's
go to break. When we come back, we're gonna talk

(27:16):
the most controversial calls in NFL history. I need a list.
We'll go down the list next on good calls. All right,

(27:36):
we're back on good calls. Yo. Your background was LLOLLO CPBL.
Yeah did that for you? Is that? Is that your background? There? Well,
the Taiwanese baseball the rat the ratsu Can Monkeys are

(27:58):
still in first. That's travisis team. Um there, you know,
still think they got like a six or seven game
lead right now. Um So there's sixteen and six there dominating.
Yeah there that they're they've been. There's the don prominent team.
Like we said, they're the Patriots of the Chinese Professional
Baseball League. Um. So we were talking about Monday morning quarterback. Um,

(28:24):
I guess this was what two weeks ago? When did
they have a couple of weeks ago they tweeted out
like it's you know, they sent out a video. Is
this the worst blown call of all time? Um? And
and that just got us thinking like, hey, Dean, you're
the rules guy. Let's let's put together the real list.
So and so, as I was thinking about this, UM,

(28:46):
the list I came up with is not necessarily a
blown call list. It's it's a controversial or or impactful
call list and like, look, blown calls. There are calls
that I've seen in my career and officiating where it's
like you you would think there was a third grader
out there or or who making that call, but they

(29:07):
weren't like impactful. You know, it was it was a
week six game with ten minutes to go in the
second quarter and you look at it and you go, what,
what the heck were they looking at? Um? So, so
there's blown calls like that, and then there's calls that
everybody's is going to run that. There's controversial calls, whether
you whether it's debatable um whether it was a missed call.

(29:28):
But I think you know, was the fail Mary. Yes,
So when you think about the fail Mary, the fail
Mary was two thousand twelve. That was during that was
during the lockout when the officials were locked out the
first couple of weeks of this season. And uh and
it was literally it was the last play of the lockout,

(29:50):
of the lockout because that was Monday night. It was
um it was Seattle and Green Bay. It was green
Bay at Seattle. So you're on the West coast, So
think about that. That play happens um after midnight Um,
now what when we East coast time, right well after

(30:13):
midnight East coast time, so you're into Tuesday morning, now
we we were that time was was probably the most um,
I don't even know, turbulent time in my career at
the NFL. It was. You know, we had had a
lockout in two thousand one. Um, we we only missed.

(30:34):
You know, we had a couple of preseason games with
replacement officials. Um. And and you know then nine eleven
happened and the officials came back two weeks later. So
and those officials were the better college officials worked during
that lockout in the NFL. This lockout, the better college

(30:54):
officials did not work. These officials were your lower tier
college officials. Some some lower level college officials. Why was
that was the other guys are already locked up with
college football. No. Here, here's what happened the first go around.
The college officials that worked during the lockout, we're basically
looked at as um for lack of a better term, scabs.

(31:19):
They were ostracized in the in the officiating community. The
NFL officials felt betrayed that they were standing for what
they believed in for a better deal and these officials,
we were by working, we're hindering that process. So those
officials received a lot of backlash and many of them
felt that if you talk to them, they felt that, um,

(31:42):
they were they were not given opportunities to get to
the NFL because they worked during the lockout. So when
when we went into that lockout, and I wasn't the
head of officiating, but I know what went into finding
the replacement officials, and they the NFL purposely did not
go after or the top college officials. They didn't want

(32:03):
to put them in that position, so they went for
lower level officials. But this was this was the powers
that we didn't understand. You can't just put anybody out there.
And we knew we knew that, um, you know, myself,
a couple of other people in within the department, we
knew this was not gonna work. We knew you could

(32:24):
get by maybe a week, maybe even two weeks, but eventually,
if you throw people out there that are not used
to the speed, the intensity and not just that football's
football holding is holding, Um, you could get by, but
managing an NFL game, TV, all the external things right,

(32:45):
all of that, all of that process can be overwhelming.
When you talk about somebody whose experiences maybe Division two,
maybe Division three, where some games are televised, some aren't,
maybe even high school where majority of games are not televised,
that whole the outside stuff became so overwhelming. So we
knew eventually, UM, the ship was going to hit the fan.

(33:08):
And it hit the fan that game that Monday night. Um,
it was a stressful time we were. We remember going
to games and I was in the replay booth where
they had set to the on field officials, and I
was basically helping them through the process of NFL rules,
helping them enforce penalties. And I've never felt more, um
exhausted at the end of the game, and through no

(33:29):
fault of these officials. These officials were put in a
position to foul. You can't take. That's like taking I
know Joe thinks that if he had five inches he
could be an NFL title, But that's like taking Joe
or myself or you and throwing us out there in
the middle of an NFL game and saying, Okay, you're
the life tackle block you know, block that defensive ent

(33:51):
like we would fail. And that's what they were putting.
They were put in that position, and and obviously the
fail Mary. Look, there were a couple of prob was
with that play. It was offensive, fast affairance. Golden Date
clearly pushed Sam Shields um in the back to even
have a chance to make that catch. Then they went
up and it's some people say, what, Look, it was

(34:13):
a simultaneous catch, it's an interception. Um, it should have
been ruled an interception on the field. UM. It would
have been tough to overturn and replay just because it
was tough to see the football. I think had the
replay official had the wherewithal the think big picture, big
picture change it making an interception, um, you know, And

(34:34):
and Green Bay wins the game and we don't have
all this controversy. But literally, we were talking before that week,
before that game that once a deal got done, it
was going to take two weeks minimum to get the
regular officials back. That play happened Monday night into Tuesday morning.
They were back Thursday night. That's how impactful that play was.
So it's definitely one of the top, you know, missed calls,

(34:57):
certainly controversial calls in his three UM so here's my list.
And then I did this in chronological order and so
the immaculate reception. All right, So this was Raiders Steelers,
This was the NFC divisional game in ninety two. Was
the last play of the game. And everybody's seen the
video of the pictures. Um you know, Bradshaw scrambles, throws

(35:18):
the ball, it deflects off either Jack Tatum or Frenchie Fuqua.
Franco Harris catches it out of the air and runs
it in for a game when he touchdown as time expires. So,
but a lot of people don't remember that. There was
a controversy about that play because at that time the
rules said you couldn't if a passed touched an offensive player,

(35:41):
it couldn't then touch a second offensive player if if
it tipped, if a receiver tipped to pass, another receiver
couldn't catch it. So if that ball is touched by
Frenchie Fuqua, then Harris catching it is a foul. And
to this day we still don't know who touched it first.
It looked was like it hit off Tatum, the Raiders

(36:02):
the Raiders player. But there was a long, long, long
conversation after that play, fifteen minutes or so, the crew
talking about Art mcnallely who was the head of officials
at the time. He was in the press box and ultimately, UM.
There was no replay at that time, but there was
a long discussion and ultimately they went with touchdown. But
that that was definitely a significant, a significant controversial play.

(36:25):
And then the rule changed in eight So it wasn't
just because of that play, but in ninety eight the
double touch rule went away, and now it's the rule
that we all know, so that it can be touched
by a receiver and UH, and the second player could
could catch it. UM. The next one was the Holy
Roller the Chargers Raiders. This was early in the season
and it was the last player the game, Ken Stable

(36:47):
or either fumbled or threw it. UM. The ball was
muffed forward, UM, Dave Christensen falls on it in the
end zone and the Raiders win. And this did lead
to a rule change. UM. Where this was before the
two minute fumble rules, when now we say that inside
two minutes, if if a player fumbles, then only he

(37:07):
can advance it. So had that rule been in place,
it would have it wouldn't have counted. And so that
rule did change in nineteen seventy nine. So that was
whenever whenever play leads to a rule change. It's certainly
controversal loves that fourth quarter fumble rules. Yeah, the fourth
down fumble two minute. So yeah, the fourth down fumble

(37:27):
rule was in place, but it only applied in nine,
only applied inside the defensive team's tenure um, and so
that that did expand the rule. I don't know, go
back if you get a chance to go back and
look at this video, because I think from a judgment perspective,
this might have been the worst blown call in a
big situation. This was the seventy nine a f C

(37:49):
title game and Oiler's fans who will remember it. Steelers
fans will remember it. Finally, but Mike Renfrow, Oilers are
down seventeen ten third quarter, their drive in Renfro catches
the past clearly in bounds in the end zone at
the end line, and it's ruled incomplete no replay. They
don't score, they end up losing. This is this, from

(38:10):
a judgment perspective, is probably one of the worst blown
calls um in a big situation. So YouTube Mike Renfro
no catch and uh, and you'll see what I mean.
Was not a good year for for officiating and officiating controversies. Um,
I was glad to League office at the time. We

(38:32):
had Thanksgiving Day, Right, we all remember Steelers Lions, Phil Luckett,
Jerome Bettis, did he call tails? Did he call heads?
This was a this was crazy when it happened. Um,
I remember watching it and I was like, and what
just happened? Bettis says he called tails. Luckett said he
luck It And I know Phil Luckett, Phil luck It

(38:54):
is one of the nicest people on the planet. Phil Luckett.
Um has adopted two young girls from Russia, from impoverished
towns in Russia. And Phil Lucky and his wife Phil
like it isssault of the earth human being was ripped
to shreds because of because of situations that he was

(39:16):
involved in and Phil Lucky and look, I believe I'm
there talked to Jerome Bettis about it. But I believe
Phil Lucky when he tells me he heard he heard
betttert change his here, Bettter change his his his decision.
He said head tails. And there has been enhanced audio
that would that would kind of lend itself to that

(39:36):
to that idea. But the bottom line is people heard
tales luck It said heads. It went tails, and uh,
and the lines end up getting the ball and winning
the game. So so that was definitely controversial. UM. Later
that year, Phil luck At refereeing, not his call, but Seahawks, Jets,

(39:57):
Benny Test have already touchdown. That wasn't fourth down, Jets,
so down thirty Um tested, Bernie sneak up the middle.
Officials rule touchdown, He's clearly short. No replay, Jets win
the game. Seahawks end up going eight and they missed
the playoffs, and Dennis Erickson and the entire staff is fired.

(40:18):
That play was probably the last straw when it came
to replay, and replay was re implemented back in the
following year, and I think not just that play only
because of that play, but it was definitely the last,
the last straw, and that was and looked the kind
of a footnote. The headlines been on that play was

(40:38):
that Ernie France, Ernie France, um is a good friend
of mine. Ernie France, no one, no one feels worse
when an official makes an incorrect call like that that
costs the team a game. Ernie France went into deep
depression after that play. He he he stopped talking to people.

(40:59):
He went into isolation. He was and this is a
guy that was one of the better officials worked Super Bowls,
went out to have a great career worked replay UM
work super Bowls as a replay official. He went into
depression after that play, and he took it upon himself.
And that's the sometimes we forget about the the human
element of his and no one feels worse UM And

(41:22):
it was the officiating community and the family that had
to bring him out of it. Um to get him
back because he felt he just he felt awful and
it was and it was a big, big deal. This
wasn't me feeling bad and then you know, shaking it off.
It was he went into a deep, deep depression and
it took a while for him to get out of that.
So you know, it's just one of those deals where

(41:43):
it's just it's just so tough and uh. And thankfully
replay came back in nine and and you know, we
didn't have situations like that later that year. Right Packers
is wild card game people don't remember. Everybody remembers the
Steve Young passed the Terrell Owens to win the game
right between three defenders, one of the great iconic plays

(42:05):
in the history of the NFL. Well, four plays earlier,
Jerry Rice fumbled, the Packers were covered, and the officials
ruled Rice down. No replay, game continues, Niners win. If
there was replay, that would have been reversed to a
fumble and uh, and the Packers would have won. So
so history changed there. Obviously, replay came back the next year,

(42:28):
um the wild card game, Right Titans Bills. The Music
City Miracles still debated to this day. Frank Whitchick throwing
the past back to Kevin Dyson. Look for it and
and it does. I agree it looks forward, but if
you go by the rule and it's the point of
where the ball is released to where it's first touched,

(42:50):
you cannot say that it is clearly forward. And it
was ruled backward. And think about the rule back then
and the illegal forward pass. If the officials would have
ruled the play illegally forward, then the play would have
been dead as soon as Dyson caught the ball, and
so replay would not have been able to do anything

(43:11):
about that. So kudos to that crew for letting it go.
Replay looked at it, and that was my replay official.
My first year I was a video operator. I worked
for the replay official, Bob Wilson. We worked all the
year together and um, you know, I was basically the
assistant to the replay official. We didn't work together in
the playoffs. That was his game. I was destined because

(43:34):
I was really good. I was destined for bigger things.
I worked the Super Bowl that year, thank you very much.
But anyway, so I'm sitting at home. I'm sitting at
home watching that play, praying for my partner to get
it right. And I was like, oh my god, I've
been with him all year and now they have this
play and I can't be there with him and up.
But that was definitely People still debate that call. Um

(43:57):
you know this, Uh you know in two thousand twenty
UM NFC championsh game, the bird of manual play right
changed the rule. Uh that that was forty seven seconds left.
Bucks are down eleven six, and in the Champions game
against the Rams um they completed past the bird of
manual would have been a first day one would have
put them in Rams territory. They're driving, replay stops, the

(44:19):
game reverses, it's incomplete by rule. It was the correct
ruling because at that time, if any part of the
ball touched the ground, it was the incomplete passed. It
was a very technical application of the rule, but it
was the correct application. The rule changed after that to
say that if the player ball touched the ground and
the player had control of it, it was still a catch.

(44:42):
And so you know, and I've done you know, at
the Super Bowl, I've done presentations with Bird and Manuel.
He's just a great guy. And obviously that is, you know,
a very significant when you talk about that rule change,
it's one of the biggest rule changes in the history
of the NFL. Um the tough rule. Right, what can
we say about the tock everybody remembers the tuck rule.
Does the do you think the New England Dynasty happens

(45:06):
without the tuck rule? Who knows? Who knows? But that
game was over, right, Woodson Hits Brady comes off the edge,
Hits Brady rule, the fumble, Raiders recover in the snow
fairy tale ending for the Raiders, They're gonna move on.
Replay comes in walk Omen and they reverse it to
a pass, which it was by rule, and uh what happens?

(45:28):
Patriots go on tie the game. Minitary makes two of
the iconic fields, and in the NFL history ties the
game and then wins it in overtime in the snow
and uh and the and the dynasty is born. That
year they beat the Rams in the Super Bowl. So
um Amy Trask still to this day, who was the
president of the Raiders at the time, When still it's

(45:52):
like it happened yesterday. It's like it happened yesterday, two
thousand thirteen. I came in my first year, my first
order of business. But one of the rule changes we
put in was changing the tough rule uh to uh
to make that a fumble. So Radar fans, you you know,
if I were in charge of officiating, that would have
never happened. So there you go. This next one two,

(46:14):
this one to me might be at least in my
memory recent memory, the worst phone call um in terms
of the in terms of the the magnitude of the play.
And this was not so much judgment. It was the
misapplication of a rule. And you can live with judgment,
You can live with a bang bang play and an

(46:35):
official missing it. But when you miss apply a rule,
that in the officiating world, that is a big, big issue.
And this was at the end of the game. This
was Giants forty Niners, and I don't know if you
remember this game. This was one of the most wild
games in NFL history. The Giants led thirty fourteen with
about three minutes to go on the third quarter. The
Niners came all the way back and took the lead

(46:57):
with about a minute ago with the two long one's
touchdown went up thirty eight. There was a brawl after
after the two point try, with terrello Ones tackling a
Giants defender out of bounds. And there's a fight in
the middle of a playoff game, a run point game
in the fourth quarter. Go back and watch the highlights

(47:19):
of this game. It's insane. Giants get the ball back,
good return, They get in position for a field goal attempt.
They have a new holder, Trey Junkin, who they brought
out a retirement because they're their holder and their backup holder.
I'm not holder, I'm sorry snapper. They're long snapper, Trey Junkin.
Their long snapper was injured, their backup was injured. They

(47:41):
bring Trey Junkin out of retirement, and you'd already and
you already had a bad snap earlier in the game.
Bad snap the holder rolls out throws a pass down field.
Rich Cybert, who was downfield for the Giants, gets tackled.
No flag for passing if arrants they flagged the Giants

(48:01):
for an eligible downfield miss that the Rich Cybert was
Actually he's an offensive lineman, so he's wearing an offensive
lineman number. But he was on the end of the line.
He was in a tight end position, so he's eligible.
Report eligible, doesn't You don't have to have your your
report is eligible before the game. You report is eligible

(48:22):
in a field goal or so you do report is eligible.
He was in an eligible position and they just they
didn't realize he was eligible. Should have been offsetting penalties.
Giants should have had another opportunity to keep the field goal.
Gay Men's Niners win that. And I was at the
league office during that time. That was not good, especially
being in New York League office, being New York. Not

(48:45):
happy um And then the last two does Bryant right?
Obviously me and Dez and this player will be forever
lengthd um certainly one of the most controversial calls in
recent years because of the magnitude of play, and also
because Cowboy fans just can't get over it and uh,
and so this was the rule. He went to the ground,

(49:05):
he lost the ball. It was the correct application of
the rule, not because I was involved, because that was
the rule at the time. The rule has since changed.
But the magnitude to play four minutes ago, fourth quarter?
What have given the ball to the Cowboys first and
goal at the one. If they score, they go ahead.
And but if your Cowboys fans talk about it, that

(49:27):
was the Super Bowl and we cost them the Super
Bowl with that call. But anyway, and then right in
two thousand eighteen the NFC Championship games, I can't think
of a call that had a bigger impact that was
more controversial in recent years. Um that you know. I
don't think from a mechanic standpoint, it was look, it

(49:50):
was past difference. It was a missed call. I don't
think when you watch it at full speed, it was like,
oh my god, this is the worst call in history.
But it's definitely when you talk about the Saints get
that call. The Saints are going to the super Bowl, right,
they're down the ball on the next play the clock out.

(50:10):
When you think of it in that context, it's probably
the biggest decision at least recent years not making that call,
and uh and you know, and obviously it led to
a rule change. Rule change didn't work. Um when your
experiment for past and ferranture review and uh, yeah, So
so that's my list. I'm sure there were all there.

(50:31):
So hey, just you know, tweeted, tweeted us, let us
know if there are other calls that you think should
have made this list. But but that's where I am
on the list. I watched the rentro while we were
doing this. Definitely a catch. Oh well, I mean he's
clearly in best Yeah, he's second foot dragged easily. I mean,
and and that's that is that's a tough one man.

(50:53):
Imagine And that's why imagine a world without replay. Imagine
that happens in the championship game now, Yeah, and and
they call it incomplete and there's no ability to fix it. Yeah,
the world would end and Twitter would go crazy. It
would It would be insane. That's why people say replay.
You need replays. And I just think we need to

(51:14):
manage it better and make sure we're not make sure
we're not you know, going too far. Um, there was
there was another very controversial call that um, I was
not there but Joe was involved, and we we played pickup.
We used to play pickup basket and and Joe was Joe,

(51:34):
you were the recipient or you were the guy that fouled. No,
I was the one who got fouled you, Okay, the
way he says it, Joe was. Joe was apparently fouled
in a pickup game, called his own foul. There was
video of it, because Joe was video he had was okay,
pop Paulo was our friend. Paulo was, and there's video

(51:56):
of it. I watched the video. I didn't foul. I
definitely did not see it. He got my elbow. And
I never called fouls. I never, no, no, no, I
never called fouls. But I called that foul because I
was getting fouled all game. M m oh. So that

(52:18):
was a makeup and it was it was. It was
generally a foul I wouldn't call. But I was just like, look, dude,
you foul me all game. I gotta take this one
game point. Joe. This was the first time I ever
met you. Was like, you gotta see this video. Like
there's another video video in the cube. There's another video

(52:40):
that surface this week of I think we'll talk about
it soon. But another there's another controversial play in the
frisbee throwing game. All right, let's let's take a break.
When we come back, we're gonna finally put the last
dance to bed. Thank god. Next on Good Calls, all right,

(53:16):
we're back and the much anticipated, much discussed Much to
Do About Nothing documentary students about the Bulls. What in
the arrogance to say that we're gonna chronicle this season

(53:40):
and then when when I think that maybe my popularity
is waning a little bit, then will release it so
I can get back my face, I can get back
in the news. Well, apparently this was supposed to come
out like during the playoffs, when when Lebron was probably
leading the Lakers to the finals and possibly winning with
the third different each be because I need to be

(54:01):
But so I have not, and I'm on it. I'm
totally serious. I've not watched a minute of it. But
it's impossible to stay away from it if you're on
social media, if you you know, if you if you
go on sports websites like I do just to catch
up on stuff, it's impossible. So I've read, I've read stuff,
I've talked to people so after not watching the last dance,

(54:23):
here's my recap. Okay, So the bottom line is, look,
Michael Jordan's again, I'll preface this. They're great, the greatest
player in the history of the game, the greatest winner,
all that stuff. But he's an asshole. Right. The more
I read about this thing, he's an asshole, and people

(54:43):
give him a pass because well, he had to be
an asshole because he pushed. He pushed his teammates to win.
If Michael Jordan doesn't win six championships, he's just an asshole.
But now he's the greatest player. Other guys have won
Bill Russell one how many championships ten and eleven years?
He wasn't an Let's not Let's not give him a

(55:04):
pass for being, you know, anything less than an asshole.
That's it. When I read about right now, the flu
game is apparently bad pizza. Now, okay, so he ordered
he ordered a pizza, they didn't somehow he didn't make
it to dinner. He got he he threw a piss
a fist, he threw a hissy fit, ordered a pizza

(55:28):
late night in Utah, in Salt Lake, and then basically
spit on the pizza. So that no one else would
eat it. Right, this is this is the story. Do
you know what that that was admitted? He spit He
spit on the pizza to ensure that nobody would touch

(55:48):
his pizza. Mia Michael Jordan's spit on the pizza said
nobody else would touch the pizza because they didn't bring
they didn't they didn't tell him about dinner. He was
the only one that was going to eat that pizza.
And apparently he did that. Before he did that, had
on on a commercial shoot. He spit on like cinnamon

(56:08):
buns because he didn't want anybody to eat the cinnamon buns.
You know what else she used to do that? My
brother Okay, have you guys have talked to my brother, right,
would spit. If there was one size of pizza it left,
my brother would grab it and lick it, or he
would spit on it so that we wouldn't we wouldn't
eat the pizza. Okay. A couple of things my brother

(56:29):
used to do when we used to get into fights.
He would take something of mine. He would take a radio,
He would take my disc man, yes I had a discman. Okay.
He would take and he wouldn't throw it. He wouldn't
throw it to me, throw it at me. He would
throw it to me. I would have to catch it
because I don't want it to fall and break. He

(56:49):
would punch me in the face and run with my
hands worked my hands were occupied. Okay, that was the
other thing he used to do. The other thing, the
other thing he created was this alter ego called the Dragon.
I told you guys this story. Dragon. The Dragon was undefeated.
Whenever we were we were a year and a half apart.
We used to fight all the time. I was older.

(57:11):
I used to get the better of him, and so
we'd be fighting, wrestling. We used to put we used
to have like bare knuckle boxing, but put socks over
our you know, try to put socks over our hands
so it wouldn't cut. We would get in trouble because
we'd have cuts. So I'd be winning. He would freak out,
lose his mind, start shaking and slalling his arms uncontrollably,

(57:33):
and I would have to like stop and then and
then when I would get him back under control, he
would go what happened? What I blocked out for a second,
And I was like, what he goes? Oh, it was
the Dragon. You can't defeat the dragon. So every every
time he would do that right, he would win for
a second, and then I would get him back and
like a you know, head a headlock, and he the

(57:55):
dragon would go away and be like, oh, he's gone again.
So the dragon was on defeated. That's my brother. So
basically my brother is Michael Jordan's without six NBA titles.
That's it. That's my take, right, that's that's that's my
take on That's it. And the other thing about the
last dance, which I love that I read somebody read

(58:18):
like winners and losers. Somebody wrote an article about winners
and losers about this this documentary, and one of the
winners was Isaiah Thomas. Because Jordan's still hates Isaiah, called
him an asshole during the documentary, still hates Isaiah to
this day. Why does he hate Isaiah to this day?
Not because Isaiah was a prick, because Isaiah beat him,
because they couldn't. Isaiah beat him three out of four

(58:39):
playoff playoff matchups, and and and this is not I'm curious.
I'm gonna present this to you. I want you guys
to agree or disagree however you feel. Michael Jordan's Bulls.
If Michael Jordan's Bulls were playing in the eighties versus
the nineties, they don't win six titles and he's not
considered the player he is today. True or falls Oh,

(59:02):
they were considered a finesse team more than than than
a power team. Michael Jordan's Bulls beating the Lakers in
the eighties, the Pistons in the eighties, and the Celtics
in the eighties. Yes or no, No, they're not. He
caught He caught magic and bird at the end of
his career, right, he didn't the Pistons beat him up.

(59:23):
You know, he finally finally beat the Pistons at the end,
But the Pistons were at the end of their run.
He's not winning six championships against he was playing against.
He was playing against individual stars on not great teams.
Patrick Ewing, they beat the Knicks four times. I'm a
Nick fan, and look, if Michael Jordan's on the Knicks,
he'd beat my asshole. But guess what he wasn't Patrick

(59:46):
Ewing that the next best player on Ewing's Knicks was
probably John Starks. John Starks was bagging groceries in Oklahoma.
John Starks was the second best player on those Knicks teams.
When you look at the Lazers teams, they had Glide Jackson,
they had Jerome Kersey. They didn't have what the Lakers
and Celtics had, right, Barkley with the Sons naming the

(01:00:08):
other player on Barkley's Sons, right, Dan Marley, right, But
they didn't stocked in him alone. You didn't have these
these great teams and Jordan's Yes, Jordan didn't have Jordan
didn't have you know, the Celtics and Lakers of the eighties.
But he had a top twenty player, Scottie Pippen. He

(01:00:29):
had guys that, you know, Horace Grant, Steve Kirt, he
had guys that were great role players, Tony kuk coach,
all of those things. So that's it. I'm done. We get,
we get you don't like Michael Jordans. We're all aware. Anyway,
what are you guys watching anything good? You know, I

(01:00:50):
was watching that Michael Jordan documentary, just finished it today.
You know he kind of came off as a dick.
You said the winner, but the loser in that was
Scottie Pippen. You didn't mention that. He just looked like
a whiny little bit, so I mean obviously the team
across Um, you know, I think Steve Kerr. Anyways, I

(01:01:13):
watched I watched the other night, I watched The Wrong Missy,
the David Spade Netflix movie. Is that good? Pretty entertaining? Yeah,
the female lead was a little over the top at
times lovable at the same time. Um, I'd watch it.
I'd watch it again. You guys should check it out.
I'd recommend it. What makes her what makes her lovable? Travis,
She's just genuine. She just comes off and she just

(01:01:36):
is is who she is, and people love her for it. Okay,
that's good. Another hot take, Another hot take. Last Last
Kingdom on Netflix is better than Game of Thrones. Just
throwing it out there. Never watched Game of Thrones. I
mean I've read the books. I'm a big Game of
Thrones fan. Last couple of seasons we're not as great.

(01:01:57):
Last Kingdom is better than Game of Thrones. Watched. Last
isn't better than Breaking Bad because Breaking Bad it's just
a different You can't really get to apples and oranges,
So you like apples, then it's you know, or you
like oranges. It's not it's not apples ap um. And
also I've watched this other one in Netflix Trial by

(01:02:18):
Media really good. So trial media talks about these um,
these big time UM trials. Typically most of it's like
in the eighties. UM, I don't know if you remember
the Jenny Jones murder case when when the guy, the
guy went on Jenny Jones two, uh, confess his crush
on his friend, um, and he did it on his

(01:02:41):
show and it was and his friend was a guy,
and so the guy went on the show, his friend
confessed that he had a crush on him. The guy
felt embarrassed because, you know, a gay man was confessing
this crush. Obviously at that time, UM, you know a
little bit. You know, people were clearly not as progressive
as they are today. Was Harris end up shooting the guy?

(01:03:02):
And um? That So one episode was about that, Another
episode about um the Bernie Bernard Gets if you remember
the Bernard Guets story about shooting the four um young
black teenagers on the New York City subway. Um. And
I'm gonna get into the next one, which I think,
uh is the I forget his name. I think his
name is Ama Amadullo. He was an unarmed man that

(01:03:23):
was shot forty one times broy New York City police
officers in the Bronx. And and it's so all about
these cases and how the media impact the actual case.
So definitely check it out. Really well done. Okay, what's
that one called again? Tried by media? Um? And then

(01:03:43):
Joe you you mentioned this? What about So we've got
a three day weekend coming up? Now, you know, I
know the weekend looks a little bit different because of
of quarantine and all that, but but what are what
are three day weekend rules? What are you know? Are
there rules to a three day weekend? Can you start
a three day weekend on Thursday? Absolutely? I think you

(01:04:05):
should always extend the three day to a four day
my opinion. But then it's no longer. Then it's no
longer three day weekend. You're yeah, can it be called
a four day weekend? I think? And can you call
a weekend to me? Like, Okay, So I'm gonna I'm
gonna I'm gonna propose a rule. You can't refer to

(01:04:26):
a number of days as a weekend if it's the
majority of the week. Does that makes sense? Seven days
in the week. You can't have a four day weekend
because then it's the majority of the week. So a
weekend can only be two or three days, so we
have to call it a vacation. That then it becomes
a vacation. When does the three When does a three

(01:04:47):
day weekend become a vacation for when you had a
fourth day? Like it? You know, I mean, I'm not
a huge fan of it, but it actually makes sense,
so I'll go with it. Okay, Um, so three day weekend?
Do you have to Can you have a three d

(01:05:09):
weekend at home? Mmm? Not? These days we've been here
for you take off? Can you take off from work
and say you're gonna have a three day weekend and
not go somewhere? I think they call it a stay cation?
What I think they call that a staycation? So so

(01:05:29):
that's a stay cation. No, I think you still call
it a weekend because anytime you're not working and you're off,
that's considered. You know, you're off days. So we've been
on like day weekend, but we're still working from home.
So like your days are full of zoom calls, all
kinds of conference calls and things, my days are full. Okay,

(01:05:50):
So let's let's let's talk about then knowing what we
know now right now that you can do all these
things remotely, you can do all you know And because
I'm remember, I remember a time when you know, the
weekend was the weekend, there was an email, There wasn't
cell phones. You left work on Friday and if you

(01:06:12):
got a phone call, it was an emergency. Right that
went away with emails and you know, cell phones and
all that. Now has it changed? Have we have we
just up the annie with all these zoom calls and
everything else where? Will there ever be a day where
we're not doing something? You know what, what will an

(01:06:33):
employer feel bad about scheduling a zoom call, you know
after hours or on a Saturday, because now you have
to come into the office. But we're gonna have a
half hour session, you know? Is that what we're looking at?
I thought we were gonna end the show on a
high note. Now I'm just gonna be Now I'm down.
Now I'm really down. Dam you really broke it down there.
I just think this is gonna be You know, I

(01:06:55):
was talking to a couple of people, a couple of
Fox executives, and this, you know, this changes. It also
changes how we look at TV. There was a point
one of the things that that the production right, it
was okay, if you're gonna bring somebody in and do uh,
you know something on air, right, it was the lighting
had to be amazing, makeup all of those things the

(01:07:17):
production value. Now, what are we seeing. We're seeing zoom calls.
We're seeing people in their living rooms, in their dens,
in their bedrooms. There's no lighting, there's no and so
what I think we're learning about the consumer is that
they don't care what it necessarily looks like as long
as the content is there, right, it's entertaining. They're learning

(01:07:38):
something which is really interesting, which I think is going
to change. Um, you know, give us access to more
you know, to more guests. You know, you think about
the shows on Fox FS one, whether it's Colin or
Speak for Yourself or Undisputed, you know, when they have guests,
you know, just having a zoom call with no bells
and whistles. I think before there might might have been

(01:07:58):
a hesitancy. Now talking to some people at facts, they're
just gonna do it. And I think it's gonna give
us more access to more people. Yeah, a lot of
my day to day has to deal with putting those
Hall of famers we have almost every day on on screen,
and those shots don't always look great, kind of like
if we're looking at my video right now, you you
don't always have the best lighting, you don't always have

(01:08:20):
the best headroom, and you're not always centered in the shot,
and it doesn't And in the producers for that show,
we're like, yeah, let's do it that it looks good
as long as we can hear them, fine, let's do it.
The audio has become more important at this point, like
if the audio, Joe, do you hear that? Well, it's
not great. You know, we're doing the best we can. Know.

(01:08:41):
What I'm saying is audio has become more important. You're
becoming more valuable. I know what. Our audio sounds terrible
most of the time. Your stock just rose big time. Okay, yeah,
thank you, you're welcome. Let's bro, let's go to Brandon Blandino.
Guy is still using the club? Yes, did you actually

(01:09:08):
see what? I saw? A club walking down the street
in Santa Monica on Wilshire Bowl. I look and I
was like, what is it? What is that? That's the club?
Do you remember when the club was like the thing
that like late eighties, early nineties, everybody had a club.
It had First of all, the club had had to

(01:09:30):
had two uses. It was a lock your steering wheel
in case somebody broke into your car, and also you
could beat the ship out of that club. I'm so
glad you went there, because I didn't want to go there.
I was like, it was I don't think I don't
think the makers of the club realized that it was
a two use item. But it definitely became that bad thing.

(01:09:52):
When did why? When and why did the club stop
being a thing? Well, because did you see how easy
it is to disable him? What? It became like everyone
knew how to get rid of them. You just cut
It was like you take a song and you just
cut the steering. You know, I probably shouldn't be saying

(01:10:14):
this stuff. You know, well I get it, but I
didn't realize that that was the reason. I just thought
people just said it's not you know, the the the
alarm systems are more sophisticated. You have GPS trackers, you
have all these different things. Well it's probably all that too,
but everybody knew if you just take like a hacks
on and cut the steering wheel and it just pops
right off. Yeah, I mean yeah, but you just so.

(01:10:38):
I think the guy walking down the street with the
hacks On in his pocket might be it might be
somebody to keep an eye on. But I just remember
everybody had everyone had a club. That the club must
have been. I would be interesting to see at the
height of their the height of their popularity, what what
you know, what business kind of business they were doing,
because that was a big, big thing. I mean it
was like the first time you start, you were like,

(01:11:00):
oh my, that's that's genius. Can still my car? Nobody
now nobody's no, nobody uses it except this one guy
that lives in And what color was it was a
traditional rat or you have one of the colors? No
it was it wasn't red. It might have been just black. Huh.

(01:11:20):
And my maybe it was a knockoff. I remember I
had like a turquoise one. I don't know. Maybe it
was what's the knockoff called the flub? Who knows, but
get it. I'm sure there were plenty of knockoffs. I
don't know. On that note, Travis, this has been good

(01:11:42):
calls or Team Black, you know. Please follow me on
Twitter at gene Glandino and Instagram at team dop Blandio.
Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter, apples podcast, and
be sure to radar podcast on the heart Radio app
and on apple Wood Calls and zeene Blandino is a
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(01:12:04):
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.