May 19, 2022 • 52 mins
This week Jamie sits down to talk with her dear friend Janis Hirsch. They discuss how to preserve long-term friendships, the complicated world of high school, and reveal how they were brought together by a parking spot.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If there's something don't already illative. I'm a good Friend.
Hi everybody, It's Jamie Lee Curtis and you're listening to
the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you by my Heart Radio.
It's a podcast about friendship. We talk about everything, We cry,
(00:24):
we laugh, we think about what it really means to
be a good friend. And I have conversations with some
of my best friends, some people I've never met, and
sort of everything in between. So I hope by the
end of it that you have a really good sense
(00:47):
of what friendship means to me and the people that
I consider friends. And I hope you can take those
same ideas into your own friendship groups. And I hope
you enjoy it, don't. I'm a good friend. Good morning, Janice,
I my darling girl. How are you, my darling girl?
(01:10):
We we are, we are well today. My guest for
the uninitiated listener is my wonderful friend, Janice hirsch Um.
This is probably Janice the most sort of official uh
intro I have done that. That was sort of it. Um.
(01:30):
We've we've sort of rolled into these a bit. But
you were so early, Darling, like I'm always earlier you
and I what I heard you text me this morning.
I was still I was finishing my toilette. Oh my, yes,
luckily this is on you know, audio of or we
could all be wondering about said toilette. And what time
(01:53):
did you hear from me? Yeah? And I was already
I was, I was out of the shower. Believe me,
I was. I was clean. Oh well, that's also helpful
to know. Um. The earlier guest was our friend Lisa
bern Bach, and we did discuss you, and there was
(02:13):
a little bit of doling ng so we may fall
into that for the listener. Um, it is our mating song.
That's exactly right. That's what it is. It's somehow peels
away any artifice between us, even though it sounds artificial.
(02:34):
The truth is when we say doling doling um, it
is like a warbl ng um morning bird going hello,
are you out there? And then as soon as we
hear a doling, we're in it. Um. Do you have
other friends at five forty in the morning or am
(02:55):
I in that small not even in New York? No? No, uh,
you're it, baby girl. You're it's oh that laugh. I
love your lips. Well, I mean it makes me laugh. Janice.
Uh is a writer? Uh, Janice is a very funny writer.
(03:18):
Or how do you? I mean, that's so weird? How
do you say that? Do you say you're a comedy writer?
Do you write comedy? What? What? How would you describe
the self? Don't I say I'm the world's oldest female
sitcom right? That I'm not young, pi se but I'm
young at hot? Yes, I think I think you have
a very young hots um. So you are a sitcom writer?
(03:42):
You write sitcoms? Right? I mean? I I write other things.
I am trying to peddle a memoir that I wrote,
and I'm writing another book, and I've written, I've rewritten movies,
and I've worked on theater. But my house is because
I write. Yes, I used to refer to the patio.
Is the fish called wanda patio? Right, It's like naming
(04:05):
the temple. It's like naming the fountain at the temple. Yes, exactly. Well.
And for people listening who may not understand what a
freelance um person in the arts is, it's the word freelance,
as far as I'm concerned, means unemployed. You know, it's
a it's a kind of cushion. I am saying, I
(04:27):
consider myself to be like a migrant worker, and I
go with their oranges, And so I do I have
in the past. I'm sort of not in the business
right now, but I have written and produced TV series
and I've never done one from year one to year
(04:48):
twelve or whatever, but I've been on you know, I've
written and produced The Nanny Square Pegs was my first
one out here, but the Nanny and Fraser and Murphy Brown,
which was extraordinary job and will and grace and and
a lot of things that you've never heard of but
that were actually the most fun ever. So, yeah, and
(05:09):
you and I met, Yeah, right, Um, we met because
we lived in the same building. So that's the first
question really about friendship, which is, you know, in my experience,
you you sometimes grow where you're planted, and here we
were both planted in this extraordinary building. Why don't you
(05:29):
describe kind of set the stage of where we met
and how we met. Um, we met the year I
thought I had it made, which was when I bought
an apartment in the Colonial House, which was built in
the late twenties that was on the Historic Register or something,
and it was just a fabulous building. What was it?
(05:51):
Six stories? Yes, yes, six stories, and walls as as
you know, as thick as my thighs, and and just
it was Betty Davis lived upstairs, and Jamie and Carol
Kane lived below me, and it was just a real
amount of it was Hollywood. It was. It was an
(06:14):
old Hollywood enclave in the middle of West Hollywood, um,
just south of Sunset Boulevard, and it had great location,
it had great history. And we met, I think we
just met like at the building where we introduced. I'm
(06:34):
trying to remember. No, I parked in your parking spot
on my first day. The rule of Hollywood is really
thou shalt not parking someone else's parking spot. And I
was taking the keys from my build for my first
day of my apartment. And I pulled in and they
let me in and I pulled into a spot I
(06:54):
didn't know, and then you pulled in. You had your
Did you have a convertible Mustang? I might just have
had you had convertible, yeah, And and I went, oh,
my god, am I on your spot? And you went, yeah,
but it's okay, what are you doing? And I told you,
and you were so nice to me because it really.
I parking drama is Hollywood drama. And because I parked
(07:19):
in your spot, you were so kind and nice and
you were still living upstairs on the top floor in
that great apartment, and I was moving on to the
second floor, and that's how we met. That was it.
It's interesting because when people meet obviously we can't, you know,
articulate when we're going to meet each other. There is
(07:40):
something spectacular when you meet someone, particularly where you're living.
And I'm sure people can relate to this where you go, oh,
I've been waiting for you, you know, it felt that way.
There was something about our senses of humor. It was
simply that feeling when you're living somewhere. I too was
sort of new in the building and Chris and I
(08:02):
were I don't even think had I met Chris yet. No,
I don't know if you've met Chris, but you certainly
weren't living with them, right, which happened, as you know,
so very quickly, so that we would have been living
together in the apartment. So yes, So it it has
that lovely um meet cute of you know, two women
in a hallway. I'm sure I've borrowed sugar. I'm sure,
(08:25):
I borrowed sugar. We kept our doors open. We kept
our doors open. And it's so it's so funny to
hear you say that, because that's how I felt about
just meeting you and going, oh wow. And I I
that I retired what I wore. I retired that sweater
because I thought, okay, this, this is as lucky as
(08:47):
this sweater is ever gonna get me, so I don't
want to taint it. It's met Jamie in a garage
and I retired it. It was a pink boat neck.
It was really nice. I love this metaphor though, of
keeping the doors open. You know we I Unfortunately we
live in a society now where that isn't done. It's
(09:08):
just the combination of many factors have now required us
all to be um safety first, in a in a
not a good way. Um. And it was a time
where you could leave your door open in our building.
Obviously there was a security aspect of the building, and
there was a sweet older man who sat who sat
(09:32):
at the watch. But but just let's explore that for
a second, this idea of keeping your doors open in friendship.
What has been your experience about how open and how
quickly or why you would close doors on that friendship.
That's just interesting to me. I rarely, I had rarely
lost a friend. Um. I mean there's sometimes you know,
(09:55):
when when when a girl friendship just doesn't work and
you don't know what it's always been, you know. I
think every woman has had that, and I certainly have
happily not too much. But if I get that vibe
and if somebody's my friend, I don't what. I'd love
to see them a lot, sure, but I don't need
to to know that they're still my friend. I don't
(10:16):
need reassurance. I I contacted you. We hadn't talked probably
in a year or two, and I needed help, and
I contacted you, and in the split second that you
got my text, you were on the case. And that,
to me is what keeping the doors open. It's not
(10:36):
you didn't call me, I didn't I never see you.
Those if somebody calls and says I never see you,
how can you see so and so you don't see me,
that's I close the iron door. You know, I can't
have that. But just knowing that that friend is there
when you need them, that's that what's it for you?
That's what it is For me, it's that it's it's
(10:57):
the ease of it. Obviously, I will have explored friendship,
you know, after doing thirty interviews with friends talking about friendship,
and there are some common themes that are are starting
to emerge. And for me, ease uh is is a
(11:18):
is a crucial word because we are all trying to
manifest our destiny. Every person listening, every person I'm speaking to,
we are all on the hustle. There's no one who
is lying around. You know. My mother used to refer
to it as um in the pejorative of those women
(11:40):
who would lie around and have grapes peeled for them.
Now was that out of Roman times or something? You know?
I think was that of the Marx Brothers movie. I
don't know, but yet where someone would be peeling the
skin off, the offending skin off the grape so that
you would only get the lovely, juicy meat of the grape,
whatever the f it meant. I don't know those people.
(12:03):
I've never met one of those people. I meet hustlers,
I meet women who are workers, I meet men who
are workers. I once did an event, environmental event where
I was presenting. I think it was a pita event
and I it was at Paramount and I was presenting,
(12:25):
and you know, I went with Annie and um she
was and continues to be a very committed animal rights
activist and women's issue activist. And I remember we showed
up and they have, of course the v I P
parking lots, so the thing, and we parked. Then this
young woman walked up and she said, Hi, I'm your handler,
(12:47):
because you know, they assigned people to escort me, like
I couldn't figure out where the stage was, the backstage area,
and then get briefed and then you know, get you
to the stage so you can do your presentation in
front of the sense of people that are there. And
of course, the minute she and I started talking, I
found out who she was and she was an emergency
(13:09):
She was a I see you burn nurse in a
pediatric burn center who was volunteering her time. And I
just remember starting to weep. I am a bit of
a criert, and I thought, oh my god, this woman
(13:34):
doing this volunteer job takes care of children in a
pediatric burn unit all day long, and probably was had
a family of her own and dishes to do and
all the rest of it. So That's what I'm talking
about here is I think people are extraordinary, and I
(13:58):
think we see that in each other. And I certainly
saw that in you. You grew up in Los Angeles. No,
I grew up in Trenton, New Jersey. Look at you,
Look at me, Look at me at Trentonian. Is that
where the darling comes from? At the darling could come
a little bit. It's a little from New York, A little,
it's a little it's just a little. As my grandmother
(14:20):
would say Jay, because she didn't want to say Jewish
or Jewey, which was her work. That she would go,
he's a little jay, It's a little Jay. That was it? Okay?
And did you from childhood? I mean you are such
an open I mean you're leaning in right now. You're right,
(14:42):
I am right, you are You're a leaner in r
Are you that person from the beginning? I think so?
I think I was. You know, I had told me
when I was ten months old, so I was, you know,
not moving around a or whatever. But I never I
(15:02):
never heard that word. The word polio was never mentioned
in my house. Once I was watching TV and my
mother heard the you know, like the Early Show, and
my million dollar movie, and my mother heard the music
and said, what are you watching? And I said, I
don't know. It's called Sunrise at Campobello. And she knew
it was about Roosevelt when he got polio, and she said,
come on, let's go to Corvette's. And she dragged me
(15:24):
out of that house. So I never knew that then
anything was different. I knew that I observed more. I
knew that I I just had to use my presence
more than I could use my physical self to be
involved with friends and conversation. But I never I was
(15:45):
never other, And and I think that that's made me
somebody who wants to be involved. You know, I want
to do what I can't do there I can do here.
And it's not it just makes it more fun. It's
just life is better that way. That's all. Life is
better that way. Something good friend. We'll be right back
(16:09):
with more good friend after this quick break, so stick around.
I don't friend. I don't. I love the phrase I
was never another. You know, I was another because I
was the I mean by the way, I mean hardly
(16:31):
uh you know, dramatic other, Please nobody. It was not
a capital. Oh it's a little a little tiny, but
you know, the fame of my parents followed me everywhere,
and I did grow up with kind of a sense
of wondering, are these people interested? Because of course that's what.
(16:55):
So the reason I bring it up is, were you
the girl that had polio? Did that file? Did that
proced you in conversations and friends and school? No. I
never even realized it was a thing until college, because
everybody knew me. I mean, like the days that I
(17:17):
would forget my crutches and I would leave them at
home and my mother would get me to school and
I don't hang out my cratches and she would just
go then wait here, and she just would let me
out at the bottom of the steps and drive home
to get them, because she'd be annoyed with me, like
like like your mother would be annoyed if you forgot
your lunch, you know, or your shoes, and people would go,
(17:39):
are you all right? I go, yeah, I just and
then my mother to drive by and throw him at
the car window in a drive home. It was the
most normal thing. I mean, I you know, I hated
dodgeball day, don't get me wrong, but but it was
never ever a thing. It I did pe but like
(18:01):
When we played field hockey, I was the goalie and
they put me in all the pads and then two
of the bigger girls carried me out because I couldn't
walk in all those pads, and they just would prop
me up in the goalie thing. And then so that
I wouldn't have to actually do anything, I would dig
holes with my hockey stick so that if the girls
were running towards me, they'd fall down. They twist their
(18:21):
ankle before they got to me, because I thought, I'm
not gonna what am I gonna do defend a ball.
I don't I don't want to get hit in the
ed with hockey buck, So that's what I would do.
But it was never that's all it was. It was
just like because when I had to do special Jim
during the like when there was I don't know, track days,
it was me the pregnant girls and the girls with
(18:44):
mono and the girls with nose jobs, and we would
just play sorry that we play board games. That was
special Gym, but otherwise I was in regular Jim. And
your early friendships, um, I still am friends with my friend,
my best friend since nursery school, Jennie Jennie Darling Holland.
I've still friends with her. Um. Her middle name is Darling,
(19:06):
her last name is Darling, Darling, Darling. But for her,
for me, it was always she was the family and
Peter Pant the Darling family. UM, but it was you know,
I still have those friends. I mean, although I went
to my high school reunion and I thought, well, this
is the last time. I mean, God bless them, but
(19:26):
I but anyway, I'm glad. Trenton's a good place to
be from. But I'm friendly. If I had friends, I
had friends. Have you had relationships that you've had to
walk away from political because of politics? Not close friends? Um,
There's there was one guy again from from from my
high school days who we post vitriol and I just
(19:51):
that I don't need this on my Facebook. But there's
one person who await watches leader of mine FORUMA and
I have actually had joint discussions where I don't agree,
but I which shall call me and she'll say that
was really rude, and and then I right, you're right.
I mean it made me think. She's made me think so,
(20:14):
but isn't that what friends Shouldn't friends make us think?
I think? I guess I'm there's an Eel doctoral quote.
It's not specifically about friendship, but it says and I'm
going to you know, butcher it so please. This is
I'm not reading this, I'm remembering it or misremembering it,
which is I guess the word we use when we
(20:35):
say things we regret, misremembered whatever you say wrong, yes, um.
And the quote is when things go unexamined for a
long enough time, certain things happen. They become mythological, they
become very very powerful, They create conformity, and they in
(20:59):
tim date and to me, that's where the calcified um
uh mind thought uh opinions went and we couldn't have conversations.
We can't or it was very difficult. Um. So to me,
(21:23):
the whole idea is to be able to go, Okay,
I am, I want to hear. I want to As
you said, I would like to hear even if I
agree or disagree. And I'm not trying to be a Pollyanna.
I'm not trying to be in the center here. So
that listeners who are politically different or think politically different
(21:46):
than I think or you think, will turn this off
because all of a sudden we're denouncing their ideas. But
that's not the case. I I am very close to
some people who have very different political ideas than I do.
(22:06):
And I never knew, I mean until recently, you never
knew how people felt because you didn't talk about it.
So if they were a friend before, they're going to
be a friend after, you know. And if as long
as there's respect and as long as we listen, you know,
as long as I can say, well, what explained it
to me? You know, then I can. Then that's all
(22:29):
I can do, and that maintains a friendship, that's fine.
What do you take to your friends? Like, you're married, yes,
and you have children's I do have a I have
a child, and I have a stepdaughter yes. Um, So
how how much do you take to your friends? Like
(22:49):
in the I guess, the you know, pie chart of
friendship said the word pie chart of friendship? In the
pie chart of friendship? How much do you rely on
your friends? I have a best friend whom I talked to,
My friend Marris, who I talked to every day. Um,
(23:11):
and with texting it's become easier. Do I see her
a lot? Not really? I mean she it's not like
she lives far away, especially with COVID. But you know,
she's she's a professional, she has a life, she's a therapist.
I have a life, but were we can just be.
We can tell each other the silliest things, but we
can also I can also talk about things that I
(23:32):
feel shame about, or I can What I also love
about friends is that you get to go you say
I need to talk, and then whoever needs to go first,
and you can either have parallel conversations or you can
say I need advice and I need help. And so
those are two. Those are both things that I can
(23:54):
get from friends. And and there are friends that I
can say, no, no, I don't want advice. Now, I
just need to tell you this so that you know
where I am and so that I get it out
and I can hear, because I don't always know what
I'm thinking till I say it, until you know, put
it in words, get it out of my head and
into my mouth. And if I can do that with
a friend, then that's then they're my friend. If I
(24:16):
if we can talk about funny stuff, talk about real
stuff sometimes just talk and sometimes just listen. Wow, Well
there's my pull quote. Thank you from the mouth of
a writer. Um, I mean that's perfectly articulated. The combo
of needs and the filters that somehow are close close
(24:40):
friends have in an instant can shift from listening to
advice giving to talking at the same time, to parallel conversations. Um.
I I have some friends who can't not say how
(25:01):
it relates to them. Like whatever I say, the first
words out of their mouths are, well, you know I
had this, when I did this, that happened to me
and I I understand the need in a way of saying, oh,
(25:25):
me too, me too, in a way for them to
try to say to me that I am that I
am you too. But it's in a way it feels
like they haven't listened to me. Uh that that their
need to immediately affirm what I'm saying in their own
(25:46):
experience has somehow. UM. I'm not asking if they've it's
not I didn't ask have you ever had that experience it?
I sometimes just need to say something yes and not
have it editorialized and not have it, um co opted.
(26:08):
You don't want to co opted. I just want to
be able to say my truth. There's an old Hollywood joke.
I will tell it very quickly. Oh please tell us
a Hollywood joke. There's an old Hollywood joke. There was
a but it's a it's allegedly a true story. There
was a manager named Abby Greschler who who looked like
he had been embombed thirty years before he was born.
(26:29):
I mean, he just it was not so. Apparently he
had a poker game at Hillcrest Country Club every week
and and and he showed up at the game one
day and one of the poker players said, I don't
know if I can play today. Um My my wife
just filed for divorce. And the other one said, you
know what's funny, because I don't think I can play
(26:50):
poker today because my son was in a terrible, terrible
car accident and we just don't know if he's going
to make it. And the other one said, oh god,
you know, and I don't know if I can play
because my best friend and business partner ran off with
every penny I have. And allegedly Abby Gretschler said, yeah, well,
(27:12):
did you hear what happened to me today? David Jansen
died that you know, It's like, yes, there there is
a bit of the filling of the shoe box with
stuff and sometimes I feel that I need something. I
need you to hold it. I need you to hold
(27:36):
this moment that I'm sharing with you without any additional
connect the dot to it. I found that, I even say,
because I have that too. And when I say here's
what I want from the following you to say, oh
you poor thing, and then move on, I just that's
(27:58):
what I need. I need oh you poor saying oh
my god, it must be horrible that did and and
and then we move. And I do that to myself.
You know, I give myself whenever there's something terrible that's happened.
I give myself twenty four hours to wallow where I
beat my chest and scream at the sky, wind me, God,
wind me. And then I got okay, and then I
move on. But I need to wallow. And if I'm
(28:20):
wallowing with a friend, then that's all I want. Oh you,
And now I just asked for it. Well, and that's
I think that's maturity. I think that comes with um
knowing what we want. I didn't know, you know, I
I have this um. I have a philosophy that many
(28:41):
people I don't know what they want. Oh it's not philosophy,
it's a it's an observation. I think there are a
lot of people, maybe people listening who don't know what
they want, who haven't really found out who they are,
and whatever age, there are people in my age who
can say that to me, and then they're very people.
I guess young people listen to podcasts, so perhaps there's
(29:03):
a younger type person here. In case there's a younger
person here. But I believe life. I look at life
as the game of Guess who, which is You find
out sort of what you don't want, and by finding
out what you don't want, you find out what you want.
(29:24):
So instead of being able to go like I don't
know who I am, I don't know what I want?
I go okay, Um, do you wanna live in an apartment? No? Okay?
And you start flipping down so maybe you don't want
to live in a big city. No okay, big city
out And before you know it, what is left? Like
(29:45):
the I Guess Parker Brothers game Guess Who, or it's
somebody's game, whoever the GameMaker is, I'm sorry, but I've
just given you a plug. So whatever, um you end
up in the game of Guess who, you have a
character that the other person is playing and you have
to guess who it is, and so you ask questions
like do they wear glasses? Do they wear a hat?
(30:08):
Are they a man or a woman? Um? And as
you flip down the affirmatives or negative, so, no, they
don't wear a hat. You flip everybody down wearing a hat.
By the end of it, you have it has emerged
out of this sea of people who the person is.
And I think you can find that about yourself the
(30:29):
same way. And it it really does take away the
onus I think off of feeling like you have to
know who you are and friends can help us do that.
It's a really wonderful sounding board to say, well, what
don't you want and you try it, and you try
I've tried stuff and I thought, well, this has gotten
(30:52):
me this far. This has been great, but now I
want to try something else. This you know, I've loved it,
may star of it, and now I want to move
on to the next thing, you know, And and to
have a friend give you permission and to say great, yeah,
because you haven't sounded happy in the last three months
of that job or that relationship. That's a nice that's
(31:16):
a nice friendship. That's a good that's listening to a
good friend who doesn't tell you right away, who doesn't
tell you while you're in it. You hate your job,
why don't you just quit? Who listens to you? And
then when you say I think I hate my job, Yeah,
I think you do too. You know, that's just a difference,
but it's I don't say that as much with my
(31:38):
romantic partner. You know, I really do rely on my
mostly in this case for me female friends. I do
have a couple of dudes who I'm friends with um
and you know, we certainly talked to each other often.
I also have found and although it didn't happen with
(31:59):
us because we we were friends out of this sort
of commonality of place, which gave us a sort of nest.
We were nested together, and our friendship grew and broadened
from that nesting so that when we left that nest,
both of us we had that relationship. But I do
(32:23):
feel with friendships that I I go there for that
specific thing with my friends, my girlfriends, I I I
have to work out my conflict um, my betrayals, my
my personal dramas. But I do think I think hard times.
(32:47):
You know the song hard times come again no more.
This show was born out of hard times. This show
was born out of watching friends struggle and showing up
for each other. And it really was born from that. This,
this whole conversation was born out of being there for friends.
(33:08):
What was your experience with the isolation in the COVID
of it all, M Visa VI your friendships and and
what was what happened like? What did you see? What
was your observation. You're a writer, a wonderful writer. What
was your observation of friendships and people during that? I
missed a hug, I did say to a friend in
(33:31):
the eighty six year old friend of mine who I
see at the farmer's market and and we both have
gone two weeks since our last since our second vaccine,
And I said to her, can I please have a hug?
Because I missed that. But I kept up with all
my friends I missed. I missed just going out and
(33:51):
sitting at King's Road coffee shop and and just blabbering
about what happened in the day. I pick up the phone,
I get picked up you know the t and text
them I really I needed my friends. And it's funny
because it has been hard. This has been a hard COVID.
(34:11):
My husband had some major problems, but I was also
having some physical problems. You know, it's funny you you
get a disease and then all these years later, it's
sort of sort of it's like, don't get it, Like
just don't get polio um because eventually it'll bite you
in the ass. And so I started falling apart a
little bit and two days ago, and I've been and
(34:34):
I've been dealing with it. But two days ago, my
best friend was at the orthopedies where I go, and
she goes to a different doctor there, and she saw
my doctor and she introduced herself and she said, well,
you know, you're Janie Hirsh's doctor, and she loves you.
And he just and he said, I can't even say
(34:56):
it because I feel so arrogant, but I mean, he
just went, she's she's a superstar, she's a warrior, she's
my hero. She's the strongest woman I know. And and
he meant it physically, I know, because I do work,
but just hearing that from a friend, it's like it
(35:17):
was like going my it was like the quarantine went
into it went to a chiropractor and finally got adjusted
and all the bones cracked and fit into place then
and I went, Okay, that's the best take over. That's
my takeaway, and that you know, what doesn't kill you
makes you stronger, and I'm stronger, and that somebody else
(35:38):
saw it, saw my hard work. I mean, I'm tearing
up now. It just meant the world and hearing my
best friend tell me that. So yeah, I I it
was hard not seeing people. It was hard not hugging people.
But I would have died if I didn't keep in touch.
(36:02):
I'm a good friend. We'll be right back with more
good friend. After this quick break, I want to go
back to high school. And high school for many people
was challenging. You know, it's the it's the it's it's
(36:25):
the gender splitting time. It's the um you know, our
obsessions with what we look like, and you know, the
the beginnings of our sexual awakenings, and um, the haves
and have not, the Betties and Veronica's of the world.
(36:46):
As for for the uninitiated, I always everyone assumed I
was a Veronica because you know, I was the daughter
of famous people and I, uh, you know, had some
supposed wealth and privilege, not by the way supposed wealth
and privilege. Sorry everyone in this day today, I had
wealth and privilege, I didn't feel like it. I lived
(37:07):
on a dirt road with you know, great danes and
a golf cart, so it did not feel to me. Um.
You know, big black widow spiders in the in the road,
I tarantulas crawling over my foot at breakfast. I mean
this is it was not um a more fancy Instagram life.
(37:27):
It was a fairly country life. But I did have
um privilege. But I always just wanted to be Betty,
just a regular girl, just a regular girl with regular
parents and a regular little house and stuff. But I
guess my point is simply those friendships and when everyone
is exploring the same thing at the same time, and
(37:50):
everyone is judging themselves against each other. You know, in
recovery we say compare and despair. Impare yourself to someone else,
you're gonna be despairing that same second. Um. I sat
in bed the other night and watched Chris was out
of town, and I found myself sitting, you know, kind
(38:14):
of for the first time in the day. It's not moving.
I'm a doer. Everybody I liked. I like to do
you and I and puffing into the conversation because you're
out walking a hill. I'm walking or I'm I'm yes,
I'm I'm that girl. I mean if I think, I
think people by this point kind of have figured that out.
(38:35):
I'm a little bit of a dua. Um. But I
was watching. I was. I don't know how I got
on reels whatever that is. It's in an Instagram thing
where it's like little movies. And first of all, there
are so many videos of fabulous dancers. There's so many
videos of fabulous talents. Um. If you go on Instagram
(39:01):
and follow photographers, I'm a photographer, it's nothing but brilliant.
It reminded me how brilliant the world is and how
wonderful it is that there are these portals to now
see people's brilliance. But it also made me um again
compare and despair. I I kind of was like, oh,
I don't. And so I think that whole idea of
(39:23):
comparing yourself to others is a big component of all
of our developments and friends in particularly in high school,
and your experience, which is so interesting to me a
woman who a young woman with polio. UM that wasn't
to take away for you that that mothering that the
(39:45):
quote disease or the or the the physical. Yeah, and
that wasn't your experience. No, my experience was that I was, um,
you know, I had zits and then and I know
the horror and the fact that you know, I had
(40:05):
I wasn't obees. But the only time my mother, and
she didn't really hit me, but she sort of slapped me,
was when I couldn't fit into a size six team
kilt in the Young New Yorker shop at Lord and Taylor,
and she was and then boomed and then took me
out for a cheese steak because she felt bad. So
there was no mixed message, but it was it was
(40:26):
always about that. It was always about normal teenage girls stuff,
you know, or the fact that I you know, like
I my seat in junior junior year English was I
had to drag my desk into the hallway because I
was a little disruptive in class, so I'd have to
raise my hand and sort of peer around the doorway
(40:46):
and just say, could I I know that answer about
what we did? You know that kind of thing. So
I but that was that's who I was. It was
never even the times because in elementary school and in
junior high school I had surgery, so I was out
for a while, but it was never about you know,
(41:07):
like when I came back and there are a lot
of stairs. But then other than that, somebody, well somebody
would get to Um. I could assigned someone to carry
my books in elementary school down the stairs, and then
in high school, I just kept one book at home,
one of the textbooks, and then I kept one in
the teacher's cabinet or on our desk so that I
would just take it. So you know, it was dealt with. Ye. No,
(41:30):
it was never an issue. So before I lose you,
lose you before I before I let you go so
that I can go do more doing because you know,
I'm um, let's just talk about your work for a minute.
And there was um and this has this has you know,
it has to do with friendship. Obviously, we work with people,
(41:52):
we become Have you made friends in your writer's rooms?
For the uninitiated listener, are a particular animal in comedy there, uh,
you know, it's a pecking order. It's a little bit
like a water trough and the jungle and all of
the different animals coming to that same water trough, you know,
(42:15):
vying for the water. UM. In this case, it's for
the jokes for the comedy. UM. And you recently or
in the last five years or so had a situation
being a woman in the writer's room and how that
was affected. So this is kind of wanting the listeners
to be able to hear your story of that particular incident.
(42:37):
But more than that, didn't around that incident, did you
have friends who supported you during it? I'd say on
the shows, because there were never a lot of women.
I mean, on Murphy Brown there were a lot of women,
but at certain shows and now it's much different. But
(43:00):
back when I was starting UM, but I always made
at least one friend, and I've maintained those. I mean,
and I'm friendly with everybody else, but but I make
a wolfman friend because you need somebody to just be
able to go to the ladies room and cry with.
So I've maintained those women friendships and I've made a
(43:21):
lot of great guy friends through that. UM. There was
only one show where I didn't really have a friend,
and that felt bad. That was a that was a
bad experience. Uh. And it was just the nature of
the beast who the people were on the show and whatever.
(43:42):
I don't know, but whatever I was on. Yeah, when
I was on gary Shambling show, um, I was the
only woman in the room. And one day it was
not a welcoming group. It was very much comics are
different than writers in the way that they really want
to fight to get on and it's a it's a
(44:05):
much more competitive you know, I killed in comedy and
that's you know, it's it's more more brutal. And I
was pitching to Gary. I was sitting across the desk
from Gary, and then a couple of guys walked in
behind me, because god forbid, I should be able to
talk to the boss without everybody else being in there.
And then I felt a tap tap, tap tap on
(44:25):
my shoulder, and I turned and there was a flaccid
penis on my shoulder, you know, which basically I guess
if you I guess if you plucked a parrot, that's
what it would look like, and then and then rendered it,
put it in a coma, that's what it would look like.
Or but it was just like you go, the first
line is that looks like a that looks like a penis,
(44:47):
only smaller because you try to make a joke and
then you just think, I'm gonna burn this blouse. I'm
gonna I can't wait to set this blouse on fire.
And the guy's laughed and that it was not sexual.
This this guy I was not coming onto me. He
was it was he didn't for a laugh. And did
any of your friends were any of the people in
(45:11):
that group of people that you were working with? Did
you feel any of them were friends with you? They
want they didn't know that that. I wrote about it
um at the beginning of Me Too. I wrote about
it in the Hollywood Recorder, and most of the guys
(45:33):
wrote me or called me and said, that wasn't me?
Was it? If I had known, I wouldn't. It was
so unconscious. They were all there, but they all but
they just want I would never do that. And even
the woman who who figured out and sussed up that
it was her father and I said that, she said,
oh my god, I can't believe it. I said, nice
(45:54):
people do really stupid things sometimes. I'm sure I have
heard people. Don't worry it happened. I'm not saying your
father is not a good guy. I'm just saying you
did a stupid thing, but it did make everybody, the
guys I gonta laugh, so give him a point for that,
you know, But I couldn't. I didn't want to think
I can ever see a parrot again. By the way,
well clothes, make sure they're furry. Well there's some wild
(46:18):
parrots that fly around where I live, and I think
I'm gonna be um frightened. Now, yes, you don't want
them landing on your shoulder. The only other thing I
wanted to bring up was so again for people listening,
another theme has come up kind of over and over again,
(46:38):
which is the separations and friendships, and it's again not
out of big stories and you know, strife and real
struggle with each other in a break and a like
severing of the friendship and then the making of the
way back, which of course does happen. Um, what I
just remembered because you're so funny was and we we
(47:02):
we can talk about it because it doesn't really matter
because it didn't sell, so who cares? Right, So there
was a situation Listener where UM, my husband's my mother
in law, UM was very you know, dying when she
was near the end of her death her life and
(47:24):
UM she passed away, and Chris needed to handle those,
you know, the family obligations of burial and cremation, and
and he called a number out of the telephone book
and the person said, yes, of course, we handle all
(47:46):
of things. Come on over, and they gave He gave
them an address and it was in Santa Monica, and Chris,
you know, wrote it down and went over to this address.
And he remember he called me and said, I don't
think this is the right place because it's a street.
It's like a you know, a suburban street. And he
(48:08):
went up to the house and knocked on the door
and there was this young guy with a young woman
and a baby on her hip, and it was he
was the mortician, she was the what was right, He
was the funeral director, she was the mortician. They were
it was a family business. And I remember Chris told
(48:28):
me this, and I, as I am a doer and
an idea girl, like it popped into my head like
a poph that's a TV show. And I swear to
the listener, I went, oh my god, that's a TV show.
I need to call Janice. And I called you and
(48:49):
I told you that story, and in we hadn't talked
in five years. We hadn't talked in ten years, and
it was like boom, and we went off and we
created a show called Family Business about a young family
who were going to take over the family mortician business
(49:12):
as a sitcom, and we took it out and tried
to sell it, which is what people do, and we
didn't get to sell it. Um. But that experience of
having not spoken to each other in a long time
and then having this creative uh energy together, um was breathtaking.
(49:35):
It was the best writing experience of my life. Every
day after we would talk and we would talk about
the story, and you tell me what you thought about
during the night, and I tell you, And then I
went to every day the script got better, It got
funnier and smarter and deeper and better. And I have
never had an experience like that. And I will always
(49:57):
be grateful for that one. That I mean, it was
heartbreak CBS had bought it and then didn't choose to
make it. But boy was that a great That was
the best. It was the best writing experience in my life.
For that question, well, um, And it came out of
an old friendship, It came out of a mutual admiration
for each other. It came out of respect for each other.
(50:21):
You know, I, as you know, married a funny guy.
I know a few funny people. And when that idea popped, like, um, um,
what is that gum that explodes in your mouth? You
know that sum yet a sport gum, which is like,
there's another name for it, which I'm not going to
(50:41):
tell you on my heart radio just because it would
be inappropriate. But you know what, we all know what
I'm saying. Um. When that occurred, the person that popped
in my mind with it was you. And you are
a good friend. You're a good old friend. And I
(51:03):
am grateful that you came here today to talk to me.
I love you, and I am grateful for your friendship.
And I know you're there. And I don't need to
know you're here right in front of my face. I
just need I know that you're there and if I
need you, you're there. And I just I love you.
I love you. I love you. I love you. I
(51:24):
couldn't love you more if you were made, if you
were made of dark chocolate and only two weight Watchers points.
That's what I'll say, and I'm going to end with
I love you because I know you're there and I
don't need you here, and that to me is the
great gift that you gave me today. Thank you, so
stay safe everyone, and God bless you all bye. Good
(52:01):
Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production
of I Heart Radio. Our theme song, good Friend is written, produced,
and performed by Emily King. Don't already allat It from
(52:22):
a good friend? Don't already at it from a good Friend.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
If there's something don't already illative. I'm a good Friend.
Hi everybody, It's Jamie Lee Curtis and you're listening to
the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you by my Heart Radio.
It's a podcast about friendship. We talk about everything, We cry,
(00:24):
we laugh, we think about what it really means to
be a good friend. And I have conversations with some
of my best friends, some people I've never met, and
sort of everything in between. So I hope by the
end of it that you have a really good sense
(00:47):
of what friendship means to me and the people that
I consider friends. And I hope you can take those
same ideas into your own friendship groups. And I hope
you enjoy it, don't. I'm a good friend. Good morning, Janice,
I my darling girl. How are you, my darling girl?
(01:10):
We we are, we are well today. My guest for
the uninitiated listener is my wonderful friend, Janice hirsch Um.
This is probably Janice the most sort of official uh
intro I have done that. That was sort of it. Um.
(01:30):
We've we've sort of rolled into these a bit. But
you were so early, Darling, like I'm always earlier you
and I what I heard you text me this morning.
I was still I was finishing my toilette. Oh my, yes,
luckily this is on you know, audio of or we
could all be wondering about said toilette. And what time
(01:53):
did you hear from me? Yeah? And I was already
I was, I was out of the shower. Believe me,
I was. I was clean. Oh well, that's also helpful
to know. Um. The earlier guest was our friend Lisa
bern Bach, and we did discuss you, and there was
(02:13):
a little bit of doling ng so we may fall
into that for the listener. Um, it is our mating song.
That's exactly right. That's what it is. It's somehow peels
away any artifice between us, even though it sounds artificial.
(02:34):
The truth is when we say doling doling um, it
is like a warbl ng um morning bird going hello,
are you out there? And then as soon as we
hear a doling, we're in it. Um. Do you have
other friends at five forty in the morning or am
(02:55):
I in that small not even in New York? No? No, uh,
you're it, baby girl. You're it's oh that laugh. I
love your lips. Well, I mean it makes me laugh. Janice.
Uh is a writer? Uh, Janice is a very funny writer.
(03:18):
Or how do you? I mean, that's so weird? How
do you say that? Do you say you're a comedy writer?
Do you write comedy? What? What? How would you describe
the self? Don't I say I'm the world's oldest female
sitcom right? That I'm not young, pi se but I'm
young at hot? Yes, I think I think you have
a very young hots um. So you are a sitcom writer?
(03:42):
You write sitcoms? Right? I mean? I I write other things.
I am trying to peddle a memoir that I wrote,
and I'm writing another book, and I've written, I've rewritten movies,
and I've worked on theater. But my house is because
I write. Yes, I used to refer to the patio.
Is the fish called wanda patio? Right, It's like naming
(04:05):
the temple. It's like naming the fountain at the temple. Yes, exactly. Well.
And for people listening who may not understand what a
freelance um person in the arts is, it's the word freelance,
as far as I'm concerned, means unemployed. You know, it's
a it's a kind of cushion. I am saying, I
(04:27):
consider myself to be like a migrant worker, and I
go with their oranges, And so I do I have
in the past. I'm sort of not in the business
right now, but I have written and produced TV series
and I've never done one from year one to year
(04:48):
twelve or whatever, but I've been on you know, I've
written and produced The Nanny Square Pegs was my first
one out here, but the Nanny and Fraser and Murphy Brown,
which was extraordinary job and will and grace and and
a lot of things that you've never heard of but
that were actually the most fun ever. So, yeah, and
(05:09):
you and I met, Yeah, right, Um, we met because
we lived in the same building. So that's the first
question really about friendship, which is, you know, in my experience,
you you sometimes grow where you're planted, and here we
were both planted in this extraordinary building. Why don't you
(05:29):
describe kind of set the stage of where we met
and how we met. Um, we met the year I
thought I had it made, which was when I bought
an apartment in the Colonial House, which was built in
the late twenties that was on the Historic Register or something,
and it was just a fabulous building. What was it?
(05:51):
Six stories? Yes, yes, six stories, and walls as as
you know, as thick as my thighs, and and just
it was Betty Davis lived upstairs, and Jamie and Carol
Kane lived below me, and it was just a real
amount of it was Hollywood. It was. It was an
(06:14):
old Hollywood enclave in the middle of West Hollywood, um,
just south of Sunset Boulevard, and it had great location,
it had great history. And we met, I think we
just met like at the building where we introduced. I'm
(06:34):
trying to remember. No, I parked in your parking spot
on my first day. The rule of Hollywood is really
thou shalt not parking someone else's parking spot. And I
was taking the keys from my build for my first
day of my apartment. And I pulled in and they
let me in and I pulled into a spot I
(06:54):
didn't know, and then you pulled in. You had your
Did you have a convertible Mustang? I might just have
had you had convertible, yeah, And and I went, oh,
my god, am I on your spot? And you went, yeah,
but it's okay, what are you doing? And I told you,
and you were so nice to me because it really.
I parking drama is Hollywood drama. And because I parked
(07:19):
in your spot, you were so kind and nice and
you were still living upstairs on the top floor in
that great apartment, and I was moving on to the
second floor, and that's how we met. That was it.
It's interesting because when people meet obviously we can't, you know,
articulate when we're going to meet each other. There is
(07:40):
something spectacular when you meet someone, particularly where you're living.
And I'm sure people can relate to this where you go, oh,
I've been waiting for you, you know, it felt that way.
There was something about our senses of humor. It was
simply that feeling when you're living somewhere. I too was
sort of new in the building and Chris and I
(08:02):
were I don't even think had I met Chris yet. No,
I don't know if you've met Chris, but you certainly
weren't living with them, right, which happened, as you know,
so very quickly, so that we would have been living
together in the apartment. So yes, So it it has
that lovely um meet cute of you know, two women
in a hallway. I'm sure I've borrowed sugar. I'm sure,
(08:25):
I borrowed sugar. We kept our doors open. We kept
our doors open. And it's so it's so funny to
hear you say that, because that's how I felt about
just meeting you and going, oh wow. And I I
that I retired what I wore. I retired that sweater
because I thought, okay, this, this is as lucky as
(08:47):
this sweater is ever gonna get me, so I don't
want to taint it. It's met Jamie in a garage
and I retired it. It was a pink boat neck.
It was really nice. I love this metaphor though, of
keeping the doors open. You know we I Unfortunately we
live in a society now where that isn't done. It's
(09:08):
just the combination of many factors have now required us
all to be um safety first, in a in a
not a good way. Um. And it was a time
where you could leave your door open in our building.
Obviously there was a security aspect of the building, and
there was a sweet older man who sat who sat
(09:32):
at the watch. But but just let's explore that for
a second, this idea of keeping your doors open in friendship.
What has been your experience about how open and how
quickly or why you would close doors on that friendship.
That's just interesting to me. I rarely, I had rarely
lost a friend. Um. I mean there's sometimes you know,
(09:55):
when when when a girl friendship just doesn't work and
you don't know what it's always been, you know. I
think every woman has had that, and I certainly have
happily not too much. But if I get that vibe
and if somebody's my friend, I don't what. I'd love
to see them a lot, sure, but I don't need
to to know that they're still my friend. I don't
(10:16):
need reassurance. I I contacted you. We hadn't talked probably
in a year or two, and I needed help, and
I contacted you, and in the split second that you
got my text, you were on the case. And that,
to me is what keeping the doors open. It's not
(10:36):
you didn't call me, I didn't I never see you.
Those if somebody calls and says I never see you,
how can you see so and so you don't see me,
that's I close the iron door. You know, I can't
have that. But just knowing that that friend is there
when you need them, that's that what's it for you?
That's what it is For me, it's that it's it's
(10:57):
the ease of it. Obviously, I will have explored friendship,
you know, after doing thirty interviews with friends talking about friendship,
and there are some common themes that are are starting
to emerge. And for me, ease uh is is a
(11:18):
is a crucial word because we are all trying to
manifest our destiny. Every person listening, every person I'm speaking to,
we are all on the hustle. There's no one who
is lying around. You know. My mother used to refer
to it as um in the pejorative of those women
(11:40):
who would lie around and have grapes peeled for them.
Now was that out of Roman times or something? You know?
I think was that of the Marx Brothers movie. I
don't know, but yet where someone would be peeling the
skin off, the offending skin off the grape so that
you would only get the lovely, juicy meat of the grape,
whatever the f it meant. I don't know those people.
(12:03):
I've never met one of those people. I meet hustlers,
I meet women who are workers, I meet men who
are workers. I once did an event, environmental event where
I was presenting. I think it was a pita event
and I it was at Paramount and I was presenting,
(12:25):
and you know, I went with Annie and um she
was and continues to be a very committed animal rights
activist and women's issue activist. And I remember we showed
up and they have, of course the v I P
parking lots, so the thing, and we parked. Then this
young woman walked up and she said, Hi, I'm your handler,
(12:47):
because you know, they assigned people to escort me, like
I couldn't figure out where the stage was, the backstage area,
and then get briefed and then you know, get you
to the stage so you can do your presentation in
front of the sense of people that are there. And
of course, the minute she and I started talking, I
found out who she was and she was an emergency
(13:09):
She was a I see you burn nurse in a
pediatric burn center who was volunteering her time. And I
just remember starting to weep. I am a bit of
a criert, and I thought, oh my god, this woman
(13:34):
doing this volunteer job takes care of children in a
pediatric burn unit all day long, and probably was had
a family of her own and dishes to do and
all the rest of it. So That's what I'm talking
about here is I think people are extraordinary, and I
(13:58):
think we see that in each other. And I certainly
saw that in you. You grew up in Los Angeles. No,
I grew up in Trenton, New Jersey. Look at you,
Look at me, Look at me at Trentonian. Is that
where the darling comes from? At the darling could come
a little bit. It's a little from New York, A little,
it's a little it's just a little. As my grandmother
(14:20):
would say Jay, because she didn't want to say Jewish
or Jewey, which was her work. That she would go,
he's a little jay, It's a little Jay. That was it? Okay?
And did you from childhood? I mean you are such
an open I mean you're leaning in right now. You're right,
(14:42):
I am right, you are You're a leaner in r
Are you that person from the beginning? I think so?
I think I was. You know, I had told me
when I was ten months old, so I was, you know,
not moving around a or whatever. But I never I
(15:02):
never heard that word. The word polio was never mentioned
in my house. Once I was watching TV and my
mother heard the you know, like the Early Show, and
my million dollar movie, and my mother heard the music
and said, what are you watching? And I said, I
don't know. It's called Sunrise at Campobello. And she knew
it was about Roosevelt when he got polio, and she said,
come on, let's go to Corvette's. And she dragged me
(15:24):
out of that house. So I never knew that then
anything was different. I knew that I observed more. I
knew that I I just had to use my presence
more than I could use my physical self to be
involved with friends and conversation. But I never I was
(15:45):
never other, And and I think that that's made me
somebody who wants to be involved. You know, I want
to do what I can't do there I can do here.
And it's not it just makes it more fun. It's
just life is better that way. That's all. Life is
better that way. Something good friend. We'll be right back
(16:09):
with more good friend after this quick break, so stick around.
I don't friend. I don't. I love the phrase I
was never another. You know, I was another because I
was the I mean by the way, I mean hardly
(16:31):
uh you know, dramatic other, Please nobody. It was not
a capital. Oh it's a little a little tiny, but
you know, the fame of my parents followed me everywhere,
and I did grow up with kind of a sense
of wondering, are these people interested? Because of course that's what.
(16:55):
So the reason I bring it up is, were you
the girl that had polio? Did that file? Did that
proced you in conversations and friends and school? No. I
never even realized it was a thing until college, because
everybody knew me. I mean, like the days that I
(17:17):
would forget my crutches and I would leave them at
home and my mother would get me to school and
I don't hang out my cratches and she would just
go then wait here, and she just would let me
out at the bottom of the steps and drive home
to get them, because she'd be annoyed with me, like
like like your mother would be annoyed if you forgot
your lunch, you know, or your shoes, and people would go,
(17:39):
are you all right? I go, yeah, I just and
then my mother to drive by and throw him at
the car window in a drive home. It was the
most normal thing. I mean, I you know, I hated
dodgeball day, don't get me wrong, but but it was
never ever a thing. It I did pe but like
(18:01):
When we played field hockey, I was the goalie and
they put me in all the pads and then two
of the bigger girls carried me out because I couldn't
walk in all those pads, and they just would prop
me up in the goalie thing. And then so that
I wouldn't have to actually do anything, I would dig
holes with my hockey stick so that if the girls
were running towards me, they'd fall down. They twist their
(18:21):
ankle before they got to me, because I thought, I'm
not gonna what am I gonna do defend a ball.
I don't I don't want to get hit in the
ed with hockey buck, So that's what I would do.
But it was never that's all it was. It was
just like because when I had to do special Jim
during the like when there was I don't know, track days,
it was me the pregnant girls and the girls with
(18:44):
mono and the girls with nose jobs, and we would
just play sorry that we play board games. That was
special Gym, but otherwise I was in regular Jim. And
your early friendships, um, I still am friends with my friend,
my best friend since nursery school, Jennie Jennie Darling Holland.
I've still friends with her. Um. Her middle name is Darling,
(19:06):
her last name is Darling, Darling, Darling. But for her,
for me, it was always she was the family and
Peter Pant the Darling family. UM, but it was you know,
I still have those friends. I mean, although I went
to my high school reunion and I thought, well, this
is the last time. I mean, God bless them, but
(19:26):
I but anyway, I'm glad. Trenton's a good place to
be from. But I'm friendly. If I had friends, I
had friends. Have you had relationships that you've had to
walk away from political because of politics? Not close friends? Um,
There's there was one guy again from from from my
high school days who we post vitriol and I just
(19:51):
that I don't need this on my Facebook. But there's
one person who await watches leader of mine FORUMA and
I have actually had joint discussions where I don't agree,
but I which shall call me and she'll say that
was really rude, and and then I right, you're right.
I mean it made me think. She's made me think so,
(20:14):
but isn't that what friends Shouldn't friends make us think?
I think? I guess I'm there's an Eel doctoral quote.
It's not specifically about friendship, but it says and I'm
going to you know, butcher it so please. This is
I'm not reading this, I'm remembering it or misremembering it,
which is I guess the word we use when we
(20:35):
say things we regret, misremembered whatever you say wrong, yes, um.
And the quote is when things go unexamined for a
long enough time, certain things happen. They become mythological, they
become very very powerful, They create conformity, and they in
(20:59):
tim date and to me, that's where the calcified um
uh mind thought uh opinions went and we couldn't have conversations.
We can't or it was very difficult. Um. So to me,
(21:23):
the whole idea is to be able to go, Okay,
I am, I want to hear. I want to As
you said, I would like to hear even if I
agree or disagree. And I'm not trying to be a Pollyanna.
I'm not trying to be in the center here. So
that listeners who are politically different or think politically different
(21:46):
than I think or you think, will turn this off
because all of a sudden we're denouncing their ideas. But
that's not the case. I I am very close to
some people who have very different political ideas than I do.
(22:06):
And I never knew, I mean until recently, you never
knew how people felt because you didn't talk about it.
So if they were a friend before, they're going to
be a friend after, you know. And if as long
as there's respect and as long as we listen, you know,
as long as I can say, well, what explained it
to me? You know, then I can. Then that's all
(22:29):
I can do, and that maintains a friendship, that's fine.
What do you take to your friends? Like, you're married, yes,
and you have children's I do have a I have
a child, and I have a stepdaughter yes. Um, So
how how much do you take to your friends? Like
(22:49):
in the I guess, the you know, pie chart of
friendship said the word pie chart of friendship? In the
pie chart of friendship? How much do you rely on
your friends? I have a best friend whom I talked to,
My friend Marris, who I talked to every day. Um,
(23:11):
and with texting it's become easier. Do I see her
a lot? Not really? I mean she it's not like
she lives far away, especially with COVID. But you know,
she's she's a professional, she has a life, she's a therapist.
I have a life, but were we can just be.
We can tell each other the silliest things, but we
can also I can also talk about things that I
(23:32):
feel shame about, or I can What I also love
about friends is that you get to go you say
I need to talk, and then whoever needs to go first,
and you can either have parallel conversations or you can
say I need advice and I need help. And so
those are two. Those are both things that I can
(23:54):
get from friends. And and there are friends that I
can say, no, no, I don't want advice. Now, I
just need to tell you this so that you know
where I am and so that I get it out
and I can hear, because I don't always know what
I'm thinking till I say it, until you know, put
it in words, get it out of my head and
into my mouth. And if I can do that with
a friend, then that's then they're my friend. If I
(24:16):
if we can talk about funny stuff, talk about real
stuff sometimes just talk and sometimes just listen. Wow, Well
there's my pull quote. Thank you from the mouth of
a writer. Um, I mean that's perfectly articulated. The combo
of needs and the filters that somehow are close close
(24:40):
friends have in an instant can shift from listening to
advice giving to talking at the same time, to parallel conversations. Um.
I I have some friends who can't not say how
(25:01):
it relates to them. Like whatever I say, the first
words out of their mouths are, well, you know I
had this, when I did this, that happened to me
and I I understand the need in a way of saying, oh,
(25:25):
me too, me too, in a way for them to
try to say to me that I am that I
am you too. But it's in a way it feels
like they haven't listened to me. Uh that that their
need to immediately affirm what I'm saying in their own
(25:46):
experience has somehow. UM. I'm not asking if they've it's
not I didn't ask have you ever had that experience it?
I sometimes just need to say something yes and not
have it editorialized and not have it, um co opted.
(26:08):
You don't want to co opted. I just want to
be able to say my truth. There's an old Hollywood joke.
I will tell it very quickly. Oh please tell us
a Hollywood joke. There's an old Hollywood joke. There was
a but it's a it's allegedly a true story. There
was a manager named Abby Greschler who who looked like
he had been embombed thirty years before he was born.
(26:29):
I mean, he just it was not so. Apparently he
had a poker game at Hillcrest Country Club every week
and and and he showed up at the game one
day and one of the poker players said, I don't
know if I can play today. Um My my wife
just filed for divorce. And the other one said, you
know what's funny, because I don't think I can play
(26:50):
poker today because my son was in a terrible, terrible
car accident and we just don't know if he's going
to make it. And the other one said, oh god,
you know, and I don't know if I can play
because my best friend and business partner ran off with
every penny I have. And allegedly Abby Gretschler said, yeah, well,
(27:12):
did you hear what happened to me today? David Jansen
died that you know, It's like, yes, there there is
a bit of the filling of the shoe box with
stuff and sometimes I feel that I need something. I
need you to hold it. I need you to hold
(27:36):
this moment that I'm sharing with you without any additional
connect the dot to it. I found that, I even say,
because I have that too. And when I say here's
what I want from the following you to say, oh
you poor thing, and then move on, I just that's
(27:58):
what I need. I need oh you poor saying oh
my god, it must be horrible that did and and
and then we move. And I do that to myself.
You know, I give myself whenever there's something terrible that's happened.
I give myself twenty four hours to wallow where I
beat my chest and scream at the sky, wind me, God,
wind me. And then I got okay, and then I
move on. But I need to wallow. And if I'm
(28:20):
wallowing with a friend, then that's all I want. Oh you,
And now I just asked for it. Well, and that's
I think that's maturity. I think that comes with um
knowing what we want. I didn't know, you know, I
I have this um. I have a philosophy that many
(28:41):
people I don't know what they want. Oh it's not philosophy,
it's a it's an observation. I think there are a
lot of people, maybe people listening who don't know what
they want, who haven't really found out who they are,
and whatever age, there are people in my age who
can say that to me, and then they're very people.
I guess young people listen to podcasts, so perhaps there's
(29:03):
a younger type person here. In case there's a younger
person here. But I believe life. I look at life
as the game of Guess who, which is You find
out sort of what you don't want, and by finding
out what you don't want, you find out what you want.
(29:24):
So instead of being able to go like I don't
know who I am, I don't know what I want?
I go okay, Um, do you wanna live in an apartment? No? Okay?
And you start flipping down so maybe you don't want
to live in a big city. No okay, big city
out And before you know it, what is left? Like
(29:45):
the I Guess Parker Brothers game Guess Who, or it's
somebody's game, whoever the GameMaker is, I'm sorry, but I've
just given you a plug. So whatever, um you end
up in the game of Guess who, you have a
character that the other person is playing and you have
to guess who it is, and so you ask questions
like do they wear glasses? Do they wear a hat?
(30:08):
Are they a man or a woman? Um? And as
you flip down the affirmatives or negative, so, no, they
don't wear a hat. You flip everybody down wearing a hat.
By the end of it, you have it has emerged
out of this sea of people who the person is.
And I think you can find that about yourself the
(30:29):
same way. And it it really does take away the
onus I think off of feeling like you have to
know who you are and friends can help us do that.
It's a really wonderful sounding board to say, well, what
don't you want and you try it, and you try
I've tried stuff and I thought, well, this has gotten
(30:52):
me this far. This has been great, but now I
want to try something else. This you know, I've loved it,
may star of it, and now I want to move
on to the next thing, you know, And and to
have a friend give you permission and to say great, yeah,
because you haven't sounded happy in the last three months
of that job or that relationship. That's a nice that's
(31:16):
a nice friendship. That's a good that's listening to a
good friend who doesn't tell you right away, who doesn't
tell you while you're in it. You hate your job,
why don't you just quit? Who listens to you? And
then when you say I think I hate my job, Yeah,
I think you do too. You know, that's just a difference,
but it's I don't say that as much with my
(31:38):
romantic partner. You know, I really do rely on my
mostly in this case for me female friends. I do
have a couple of dudes who I'm friends with um
and you know, we certainly talked to each other often.
I also have found and although it didn't happen with
(31:59):
us because we we were friends out of this sort
of commonality of place, which gave us a sort of nest.
We were nested together, and our friendship grew and broadened
from that nesting so that when we left that nest,
both of us we had that relationship. But I do
(32:23):
feel with friendships that I I go there for that
specific thing with my friends, my girlfriends, I I I
have to work out my conflict um, my betrayals, my
my personal dramas. But I do think I think hard times.
(32:47):
You know the song hard times come again no more.
This show was born out of hard times. This show
was born out of watching friends struggle and showing up
for each other. And it really was born from that. This,
this whole conversation was born out of being there for friends.
(33:08):
What was your experience with the isolation in the COVID
of it all, M Visa VI your friendships and and
what was what happened like? What did you see? What
was your observation. You're a writer, a wonderful writer. What
was your observation of friendships and people during that? I
missed a hug, I did say to a friend in
(33:31):
the eighty six year old friend of mine who I
see at the farmer's market and and we both have
gone two weeks since our last since our second vaccine,
And I said to her, can I please have a hug?
Because I missed that. But I kept up with all
my friends I missed. I missed just going out and
(33:51):
sitting at King's Road coffee shop and and just blabbering
about what happened in the day. I pick up the phone,
I get picked up you know the t and text
them I really I needed my friends. And it's funny
because it has been hard. This has been a hard COVID.
(34:11):
My husband had some major problems, but I was also
having some physical problems. You know, it's funny you you
get a disease and then all these years later, it's
sort of sort of it's like, don't get it, Like
just don't get polio um because eventually it'll bite you
in the ass. And so I started falling apart a
little bit and two days ago, and I've been and
(34:34):
I've been dealing with it. But two days ago, my
best friend was at the orthopedies where I go, and
she goes to a different doctor there, and she saw
my doctor and she introduced herself and she said, well,
you know, you're Janie Hirsh's doctor, and she loves you.
And he just and he said, I can't even say
(34:56):
it because I feel so arrogant, but I mean, he
just went, she's she's a superstar, she's a warrior, she's
my hero. She's the strongest woman I know. And and
he meant it physically, I know, because I do work,
but just hearing that from a friend, it's like it
(35:17):
was like going my it was like the quarantine went
into it went to a chiropractor and finally got adjusted
and all the bones cracked and fit into place then
and I went, Okay, that's the best take over. That's
my takeaway, and that you know, what doesn't kill you
makes you stronger, and I'm stronger, and that somebody else
(35:38):
saw it, saw my hard work. I mean, I'm tearing
up now. It just meant the world and hearing my
best friend tell me that. So yeah, I I it
was hard not seeing people. It was hard not hugging people.
But I would have died if I didn't keep in touch.
(36:02):
I'm a good friend. We'll be right back with more
good friend. After this quick break, I want to go
back to high school. And high school for many people
was challenging. You know, it's the it's the it's it's
(36:25):
the gender splitting time. It's the um you know, our
obsessions with what we look like, and you know, the
the beginnings of our sexual awakenings, and um, the haves
and have not, the Betties and Veronica's of the world.
(36:46):
As for for the uninitiated, I always everyone assumed I
was a Veronica because you know, I was the daughter
of famous people and I, uh, you know, had some
supposed wealth and privilege, not by the way supposed wealth
and privilege. Sorry everyone in this day today, I had
wealth and privilege, I didn't feel like it. I lived
(37:07):
on a dirt road with you know, great danes and
a golf cart, so it did not feel to me. Um.
You know, big black widow spiders in the in the road,
I tarantulas crawling over my foot at breakfast. I mean
this is it was not um a more fancy Instagram life.
(37:27):
It was a fairly country life. But I did have
um privilege. But I always just wanted to be Betty,
just a regular girl, just a regular girl with regular
parents and a regular little house and stuff. But I
guess my point is simply those friendships and when everyone
is exploring the same thing at the same time, and
(37:50):
everyone is judging themselves against each other. You know, in
recovery we say compare and despair. Impare yourself to someone else,
you're gonna be despairing that same second. Um. I sat
in bed the other night and watched Chris was out
of town, and I found myself sitting, you know, kind
(38:14):
of for the first time in the day. It's not moving.
I'm a doer. Everybody I liked. I like to do
you and I and puffing into the conversation because you're
out walking a hill. I'm walking or I'm I'm yes,
I'm I'm that girl. I mean if I think, I
think people by this point kind of have figured that out.
(38:35):
I'm a little bit of a dua. Um. But I
was watching. I was. I don't know how I got
on reels whatever that is. It's in an Instagram thing
where it's like little movies. And first of all, there
are so many videos of fabulous dancers. There's so many
videos of fabulous talents. Um. If you go on Instagram
(39:01):
and follow photographers, I'm a photographer, it's nothing but brilliant.
It reminded me how brilliant the world is and how
wonderful it is that there are these portals to now
see people's brilliance. But it also made me um again
compare and despair. I I kind of was like, oh,
I don't. And so I think that whole idea of
(39:23):
comparing yourself to others is a big component of all
of our developments and friends in particularly in high school,
and your experience, which is so interesting to me a
woman who a young woman with polio. UM that wasn't
to take away for you that that mothering that the
(39:45):
quote disease or the or the the physical. Yeah, and
that wasn't your experience. No, my experience was that I was, um,
you know, I had zits and then and I know
the horror and the fact that you know, I had
(40:05):
I wasn't obees. But the only time my mother, and
she didn't really hit me, but she sort of slapped me,
was when I couldn't fit into a size six team
kilt in the Young New Yorker shop at Lord and Taylor,
and she was and then boomed and then took me
out for a cheese steak because she felt bad. So
there was no mixed message, but it was it was
(40:26):
always about that. It was always about normal teenage girls stuff,
you know, or the fact that I you know, like
I my seat in junior junior year English was I
had to drag my desk into the hallway because I
was a little disruptive in class, so I'd have to
raise my hand and sort of peer around the doorway
(40:46):
and just say, could I I know that answer about
what we did? You know that kind of thing. So
I but that was that's who I was. It was
never even the times because in elementary school and in
junior high school I had surgery, so I was out
for a while, but it was never about you know,
(41:07):
like when I came back and there are a lot
of stairs. But then other than that, somebody, well somebody
would get to Um. I could assigned someone to carry
my books in elementary school down the stairs, and then
in high school, I just kept one book at home,
one of the textbooks, and then I kept one in
the teacher's cabinet or on our desk so that I
would just take it. So you know, it was dealt with. Ye. No,
(41:30):
it was never an issue. So before I lose you,
lose you before I before I let you go so
that I can go do more doing because you know,
I'm um, let's just talk about your work for a minute.
And there was um and this has this has you know,
it has to do with friendship. Obviously, we work with people,
(41:52):
we become Have you made friends in your writer's rooms?
For the uninitiated listener, are a particular animal in comedy there, uh,
you know, it's a pecking order. It's a little bit
like a water trough and the jungle and all of
the different animals coming to that same water trough, you know,
(42:15):
vying for the water. UM. In this case, it's for
the jokes for the comedy. UM. And you recently or
in the last five years or so had a situation
being a woman in the writer's room and how that
was affected. So this is kind of wanting the listeners
to be able to hear your story of that particular incident.
(42:37):
But more than that, didn't around that incident, did you
have friends who supported you during it? I'd say on
the shows, because there were never a lot of women.
I mean, on Murphy Brown there were a lot of women,
but at certain shows and now it's much different. But
(43:00):
back when I was starting UM, but I always made
at least one friend, and I've maintained those. I mean,
and I'm friendly with everybody else, but but I make
a wolfman friend because you need somebody to just be
able to go to the ladies room and cry with.
So I've maintained those women friendships and I've made a
(43:21):
lot of great guy friends through that. UM. There was
only one show where I didn't really have a friend,
and that felt bad. That was a that was a
bad experience. Uh. And it was just the nature of
the beast who the people were on the show and whatever.
(43:42):
I don't know, but whatever I was on. Yeah, when
I was on gary Shambling show, um, I was the
only woman in the room. And one day it was
not a welcoming group. It was very much comics are
different than writers in the way that they really want
to fight to get on and it's a it's a
(44:05):
much more competitive you know, I killed in comedy and
that's you know, it's it's more more brutal. And I
was pitching to Gary. I was sitting across the desk
from Gary, and then a couple of guys walked in
behind me, because god forbid, I should be able to
talk to the boss without everybody else being in there.
And then I felt a tap tap, tap tap on
(44:25):
my shoulder, and I turned and there was a flaccid
penis on my shoulder, you know, which basically I guess
if you I guess if you plucked a parrot, that's
what it would look like, and then and then rendered it,
put it in a coma, that's what it would look like.
Or but it was just like you go, the first
line is that looks like a that looks like a penis,
(44:47):
only smaller because you try to make a joke and
then you just think, I'm gonna burn this blouse. I'm
gonna I can't wait to set this blouse on fire.
And the guy's laughed and that it was not sexual.
This this guy I was not coming onto me. He
was it was he didn't for a laugh. And did
any of your friends were any of the people in
(45:11):
that group of people that you were working with? Did
you feel any of them were friends with you? They
want they didn't know that that. I wrote about it
um at the beginning of Me Too. I wrote about
it in the Hollywood Recorder, and most of the guys
(45:33):
wrote me or called me and said, that wasn't me?
Was it? If I had known, I wouldn't. It was
so unconscious. They were all there, but they all but
they just want I would never do that. And even
the woman who who figured out and sussed up that
it was her father and I said that, she said,
oh my god, I can't believe it. I said, nice
(45:54):
people do really stupid things sometimes. I'm sure I have
heard people. Don't worry it happened. I'm not saying your
father is not a good guy. I'm just saying you
did a stupid thing, but it did make everybody, the
guys I gonta laugh, so give him a point for that,
you know, But I couldn't. I didn't want to think
I can ever see a parrot again. By the way,
well clothes, make sure they're furry. Well there's some wild
(46:18):
parrots that fly around where I live, and I think
I'm gonna be um frightened. Now, yes, you don't want
them landing on your shoulder. The only other thing I
wanted to bring up was so again for people listening,
another theme has come up kind of over and over again,
(46:38):
which is the separations and friendships, and it's again not
out of big stories and you know, strife and real
struggle with each other in a break and a like
severing of the friendship and then the making of the
way back, which of course does happen. Um, what I
just remembered because you're so funny was and we we
(47:02):
we can talk about it because it doesn't really matter
because it didn't sell, so who cares? Right, So there
was a situation Listener where UM, my husband's my mother
in law, UM was very you know, dying when she
was near the end of her death her life and
(47:24):
UM she passed away, and Chris needed to handle those,
you know, the family obligations of burial and cremation, and
and he called a number out of the telephone book
and the person said, yes, of course, we handle all
(47:46):
of things. Come on over, and they gave He gave
them an address and it was in Santa Monica, and Chris,
you know, wrote it down and went over to this address.
And he remember he called me and said, I don't
think this is the right place because it's a street.
It's like a you know, a suburban street. And he
(48:08):
went up to the house and knocked on the door
and there was this young guy with a young woman
and a baby on her hip, and it was he
was the mortician, she was the what was right, He
was the funeral director, she was the mortician. They were
it was a family business. And I remember Chris told
(48:28):
me this, and I, as I am a doer and
an idea girl, like it popped into my head like
a poph that's a TV show. And I swear to
the listener, I went, oh my god, that's a TV show.
I need to call Janice. And I called you and
(48:49):
I told you that story, and in we hadn't talked
in five years. We hadn't talked in ten years, and
it was like boom, and we went off and we
created a show called Family Business about a young family
who were going to take over the family mortician business
(49:12):
as a sitcom, and we took it out and tried
to sell it, which is what people do, and we
didn't get to sell it. Um. But that experience of
having not spoken to each other in a long time
and then having this creative uh energy together, um was breathtaking.
(49:35):
It was the best writing experience of my life. Every
day after we would talk and we would talk about
the story, and you tell me what you thought about
during the night, and I tell you, And then I
went to every day the script got better, It got
funnier and smarter and deeper and better. And I have
never had an experience like that. And I will always
(49:57):
be grateful for that one. That I mean, it was
heartbreak CBS had bought it and then didn't choose to
make it. But boy was that a great That was
the best. It was the best writing experience in my life.
For that question, well, um, And it came out of
an old friendship, It came out of a mutual admiration
for each other. It came out of respect for each other.
(50:21):
You know, I, as you know, married a funny guy.
I know a few funny people. And when that idea popped, like, um, um,
what is that gum that explodes in your mouth? You
know that sum yet a sport gum, which is like,
there's another name for it, which I'm not going to
(50:41):
tell you on my heart radio just because it would
be inappropriate. But you know what, we all know what
I'm saying. Um. When that occurred, the person that popped
in my mind with it was you. And you are
a good friend. You're a good old friend. And I
(51:03):
am grateful that you came here today to talk to me.
I love you, and I am grateful for your friendship.
And I know you're there. And I don't need to
know you're here right in front of my face. I
just need I know that you're there and if I
need you, you're there. And I just I love you.
I love you. I love you. I love you. I
(51:24):
couldn't love you more if you were made, if you
were made of dark chocolate and only two weight Watchers points.
That's what I'll say, and I'm going to end with
I love you because I know you're there and I
don't need you here, and that to me is the
great gift that you gave me today. Thank you, so
stay safe everyone, and God bless you all bye. Good
(52:01):
Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production
of I Heart Radio. Our theme song, good Friend is written, produced,
and performed by Emily King. Don't already allat It from
(52:22):
a good friend? Don't already at it from a good Friend.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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