February 24, 2022 • 53 mins
This week, Jamie sits down with musicians Margaret Glaspy and Emily King. Yes -- the Emily King responsible for the Good Friend theme song! They discuss the meaning of the song ‘Good Friend’, the loneliness of making art and their favorite songs about friendship.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If there's something, I'll get it if I'm a good friend. Hi, everybody,
it's Jamie Lee Curtis. You're listening to the Good Friend Podcast,
presented to you by I Heart Radio. It's a podcast
(00:22):
about friendship, sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly,
the triumphs of friendship, the immense connection and emotion of friendship,
the laughter and occasionally the tears. We explore it all
in an unscripted, very free form way with many, many
(00:42):
different guests, some I'm very close friends with, some I've
never met. And I hope that you will take away
from it something that connects you to your friends, and
that the ideas that we talk about can maybe be
taken into your own friendships. So sit back, or take
a walk, or however you listen. I hope you enjoy
(01:03):
it and stay tuned a locative. I'm a good friend.
Hi everyone, it's Jamie Lee Curtis, and be here listening
to the Good Friend Podcast. It's good, I know. But
but what we were talking about is that my natural
(01:24):
joy register for two singers is very high, even though
I kind of have that deeper voice in the truth
is um. We were just talking about the fact that
for the listener. By the way, I think I have one,
so I I like to refer to my listener. Just
you know, my feeling is better too. I always underplay,
(01:47):
so I'm gonna say that to my listener. Um. When
we began talking here, my little dog, when I got
very excited when I saw Emily King and Margaret glass By.
When I saw them because I'm seeing them, you're not
because this is a podcast, not a video podcast. I
(02:08):
my voice went really high. It was like and my
dog immediately jumped up and was like, where are we going?
Are we going? What are we doing? Are we going somewhere?
So forgive me everyone. Um, I'm very happy to have
my friends here, my good friends, even though even though
I have never met one of them, so good, it's
(02:30):
so special for me. It's always both in the same room.
It's like so surreal and so fun. It's really really
And that's Margaret Margaret who I do know, Margaret who
I do know, who recently got married, and and Emily,
who I don't know. Um, But for the uninitiated listener, Um,
(02:52):
none of this would happen or would have happened. I
don't think I would have thought of doing a podcast
if it were not for Emily King what because it
was her song that you've already been listening to isn
the intro. It was her song good Friend that so
(03:15):
wildly gave us the title of our podcast. It gave
the idea for the podcast. Um, And so I wanted
to just publicly acknowledge that and thank you Emily for
oh my gosh, thank you that such a you know,
you just never knows listening And it was just such
(03:37):
a blessing out of the blue to hear from you
that day. And I didn't believe it was you. I
gotta say, I thought I was being scammed. I pulled
my friend. I said, this is not her. She wouldn't
do and you know, I think it's just a I
(03:59):
learned something that day, because you really you seem like
the kind of person that leads with your heart and
puts fear aside. And so that was a little lesson
for me, like why not just reach out to somebody
out of the blue, Thank you, well, thank you? And
the other funny connect the dot here, which is why
we are doing a three way And I mean that people,
(04:22):
I'm listening for my listener. I mean that in the
triumvirate way, not that other way. That word right exactly
which one triumvirate that's right. Triumvirt is the triangle, the
three of us, three paneled people. But yeah, that other
(04:46):
thing I've never done, by the way, I mean, you
know what I figured, I Heart Radio will be very
happy if I throw out once in a while something
like wait, what she's never done a three way, and
then it'll make it onto page six. Yeah, we gotta
keep it, yes, a little bit. And my but the
(05:08):
Margaret Blasphy connection of the triumvirate is that Margaret and
I are friends through our husband's um. Margaret's partner husband
is Julian Lage. My husband, Christopher Guest is. Julian is
a virtuo so maestro of the guitar um. He's a
(05:29):
spectacular musician, um songwriter. He's fantastic dude. And my husband,
Christopher Guest is also a musician and a fantastic and he,
you know, very much admires Julian. And so, just as
a weird acide, Chris came to visit me when I
(05:50):
was shooting knives out in Boston only because I mentioned
to him that at the Berkeley College of Music, where
he used to be a board member. Julian was doing
a concert at the college the weekend. This was going
to visit, and I swear to you it was not
(06:11):
a conjugal visit. It was a a orchestral visit. And
so Chris came in. We had never he had never
met Julian. We went to Berkeley, Chris, you know, and
Julian did that mind mild the way musicians do, and
we became friendly, and Margaret and Julian were dating, and
(06:32):
they came out and stayed at our home and we um.
Margaret and I became instant friends around music and ideas
and women. And then I'm following both of you on
the socials and there was a picture of the two
of you, and I was like, what you know each other?
(06:55):
And that's why, that's why, for the listener we are
here together as to try am for it is that
this was a friendship. The show was born from Emily
and here I have a deep friendship with a new
deep friendship with Margaret. So that's the long preamble I'm
gonna start. And now we're a band, And now we're
a band. I'm not sure you want me in the band.
(07:18):
Because I don't I know that we want you, Jamie.
You know what I do. I could like drum something.
I think you do it all, do it all? No,
I don't know, I could maybe you know that's tambourine, though,
was just so I don't know anyway, I want to
ask you start with a question. Was there a specific
(07:39):
friend that you wrote that song for? Emily? Well, there
might have been in the moment, but I do remember
it was an ode to everybody who's helped me in
my life, which you know, I think one of the
myths of show business is that you get your big
break from from agents or managers or people that are
you know, behind the scenes. But from my experience, all
(08:03):
of my sort of blessings have been from other singers,
other musicians, UM. And so it was sort of an
ode to all those people who call you and say, hey,
do you want to come on tour with me? And
I'm like, yes, I really please. UM And just those
moments where you know people can really just like the
(08:23):
call from you. I mean, it's just all these little
Christmas mornings, you know, so that I don't know if
it was a specific person long story unless no, it's
an interesting story, Um, Margaret, how do you respond to
the idea of a good friend? Like this song is
so clear, Like I remember the first time I heard
(08:46):
it was like, oh MG, that is I actually added
in ft the oh m f G. But you know,
I remember when I first heard it. But just the
idea of a good friend? What does that in Like,
what does that do to you when you say the
word good friend? I think it similarly to Emily, like
(09:07):
in her reference to just saying the thought of a
good friend is it feels like support, feels like support,
and it feels like inspiration, and it feels like a
communal feeling for me, Um, I know that even with Emily,
Like I have memories Emily. I don't know if you
remember this, but I'm not Emily for a really long time,
(09:27):
and We've kind of been in and out of each
other's lives forever and kind of when I came to
New York when I was probably like I don't know,
I think I came to New York I was thirty two.
Now I would run into Emily and I looked up
to her so much, and she would often, you know,
in hearing my music, say if you need anything, I'm
here for you and I got you and being in
(09:51):
the New York scene and kind of you know, just
like hustling so hardcore time in a way that I think, um,
I don't know, I think it's I think the New
York scene is really specific and very different than other
like every scene is, I think for music, Um, but
(10:11):
in New York is especially hard. It's really hard on
you and you're you know, you've got the highest rent
anyone could pay. You've got you know, kind of like
the least amount of clubs in a way to like,
it's it's hard for everybody to pay their rent. So
there's less and less studios and less and less venues,
and so there's only so many places to do your thing.
And I think that what you know, friendship has meant
(10:35):
to me is support in a way that maybe even
feels at times unorthodox. It's not necessarily you know, the
person that I'm talking to every day, but the person
that I just kind of know understands me and understands
what I'm doing and my mindset. Um, that feels really
supportive to me and like a good friend truly. So
(10:57):
I've always felt that from Emily that's a special bond.
I think I am. It's just it's not about whether
you're constantly chatting or constantly knowing every detail of one
another's lives. It's more about just like I know, I
know what's up, yeah, understand what you're going through or
(11:17):
what you're what's on your plate, just because I feel
like you have an intuition with me, Like I don't know,
you just come or like into my mind, into my
life at these moments, like you know, just last week
or just you know a couple of months ago when
you called me, and I was in this crazy transition.
(11:40):
And I do feel like our jobs are to be
alone a lot of the time, and we're always trying
to figure out our emotions so that we can make
them songs and that type of thing. But but there
is this. It feels like an unconditional love. It really does,
Like you know, and what am I? This is friendship?
(12:06):
Like playing I don't know how many years ago this was.
I think it was maybe ten years ago. Playing a
gig in Brooklyn and there's like ten people there, and
two of those people are Margaret and Jenna, but songwriter,
(12:26):
and you know, when you're in like an empty sort
of audience and your instinct is to go back into
the back of the room, and there you guys are
like in the front, clapping and smart like and just
beating me this. I mean, I can't even describe what
it means to to an artist who's on stage and
you're insecure and all this stuff, and to see people
(12:49):
that you really respect giving you this love I mean, yeah,
and get choked up because that's really what it's about. Yeah. Yeah,
I think that there's like a to just put a
cap on that. I feel like there is when you
said that musicians is like your job is to be
alone a lot, and at the same time it realized
so much on collaboration, and I think that, Um, at
(13:13):
times it's been hard to keep friends because because you're
never around, you're never in the same place, and anybody
that wants to rely on you in a physical sense
of like be there, it's you're not going to be
you know, you're I'm in Belgium right now, I can't
come to baby shower or whatever it might be. Um,
(13:33):
it can be hard to keep kind of maybe more
traditional friendships in that sense, and so you learn quickly
you know who you can rely on in a different
way I think more psychologically. So that's been definitely I
think what I see and good friends that I have,
and and honestly, i'd probably ventured to say I don't
(13:54):
have a whole lot of mainly good friends. Um, I
have a circle of people that really I feel like
understand me and I understand them. And I've come to
think realized that as I get older, probably I think
what you just talked about was telepathy. You know, there is.
It's interesting because of course there are people who are
(14:17):
good friends who, as you said, call five times a day,
who say, you know, I'm okay, I'll talk to you
after lunch. When you talk to them after lunch, and
then it's like okay, I'm gonna walk the dog. I'll
call you later. And there is that maybe two emeshed
connection with another person that sometimes comes out of a
(14:38):
more quote Titian life, a more day in day out
school runs coffee clotch. You know, those shows like The
View and The Talk were invented to represent the woman
kind of collective, the woman coffee clutch of people having
conversations over a cup of coffee, and of course now
(15:00):
it's turned into a very adversarial construct so that you
get the opposite opinions and people are supporting their opposite opinions,
which to me isn't I mean, they're wonderful shows and
the people on them. I'm not trying to get political here.
I'm simply saying that I think that was born out
(15:21):
of a need that women have, but particularly women to
gather together. And you can have that with other moms
who you're in school with. I mean many people who
listen to podcasts their moms and they'll be sitting there going, yeah,
that's what I do. My friends and I we take
a coffee run, or we do a challenge. You know,
I'm going to do ten thousand steps today after after
(15:43):
drop off, and that's how they talk. But artists, when
I'm so happy about talking to the two of you
as artists, is that artists are inherently lonely. Are art
is lonely? The creation of art? You know, there's this
(16:05):
wonderful quote um that I will butcher, so I'm not
going to butcher it. But it's from Steinbeck. It's from
east of Eden, and it talks about that creation only
comes from the individual mind of a man. Uh. He
said a man, I'm going to a woman. But that
nothing great was invented by nothing great was created by
(16:30):
two people. But the seed, the spark, the moment of
creation comes from one person, even if it's a reaction
to another person, there is one person and then immediately
can get built on. But that is the loneliness of
the mind of a man or a woman, the human
(16:52):
It is the loneliness and art comes from that. And
so it's so interesting to me that you both have
brought up that perspective already. It's a new perspective we
have not heard here on the Good Friend podcast. It's
a juxtaposition because I feel often shamed like I should
be more outgoing with friends and and um. But then
(17:18):
I find my inner art instincts is like, okay, you
need to be okay with just sitting here right now
and and be open to the muse and um. But
specifically during this pandemic, I learned to appreciate socializing a
lot more. How important that is just hearing, you know,
(17:42):
seeing Margaret's main pop up on my phone, or just
like you know, having some interruption between those moments where
you it's not it's not a happy place to create.
Most of the time. It's it's a you're either you know,
below the surface of the water or you're just kind
(18:02):
of floating there, but you're not necessarily like on the wave.
Like this is great. Usually when I'm really excited about
an idea, it stinks. Again. It's art. There is no
it's art. That art has no uh you know, there's
(18:26):
no recipe. It's it's art and it's the magic of it.
And um, I just think it was such an interesting perspective.
We'll be right back with more good friend after this
quick break, so stick around, friend. I don't know what
(18:56):
I was going to tell you, Emily, is that Julian
and Margaret are new friends of ours. You know, we
are creating new memories together. Um, we both we the
four of us are very fond of each other. You know.
The the dude sort of went off and did dude things.
The chicks went off and did chick things, And there
(19:18):
was a moment where, um, I don't even think you
were you engaged at that point, Margaret, I don't think
you were. I don't think you were even engaged at
that point, and they were sitting you were, remember, because
I got that cake for Julian that was our anniversary
of us dating, right right, Okay, So my point is
(19:41):
for the uninitiated listener. So, um, Julian and Margaret were
sitting in our kitchen, um which Chris claims has like
fabulous acoustics, and they and they had met at Berkeley. Now,
you guys are as good as friends as a couple.
You guys are good friends. You were friends before correct?
(20:06):
Mm hm oh, she's looking Margaret's like we are we Oh,
Julia and I yea friends for since we met. We
were always best friends. And then we started dating, probably
like six years into knowing one another. Wow. Right, it
is the way to go. I agree with you. And
but here's what happened, Emily. I think you will be um.
(20:28):
You'll see where I'm going. So they played a song,
so I you know, am Jamie and so they said
they met in college. And I was like, okay, and
you weren't just like mad for her like right away?
And he was like no, and I'm They played a
song at the kitchen table, and the way they looked
(20:49):
at each other and I said to him in that room,
I said, you mean you played that on and looked
at her the way you are looking at her right now,
when you were younger and in college, and you didn't
(21:13):
just lean in and grab her face her a beautiful kiss. No.
And I remember I took off my engagement ring, my
wedding ring, and I handed it to him, and it
was like, Julian, Julian, I'm the old lady here, just here,
(21:33):
here you go. He's been encouraging Julian to put a
ring on it. I think, all right, did you do
the Beyonce song? You turn on the like Sirie play
Beyonce and then he didn't dance. Okay. I have never
told Siri to do anything. I don't help that function either,
(21:53):
but other people have it so cool, I know. But
guess what. Siri is not a good friend. You know,
Siri is not a good friend because you know, Siri
does thing. She listens and then betrays you and then
betrays you exactly. Um. Anyway, my point was simply that
(22:17):
what I remembered about that moment was simply that here
you were telling me that you guys were good friends
in college and that but you weren't romantic friends. You
were good friends. You were best friends, and you made
music together and you create you know, you were creative
(22:39):
people together. And what I kept saying is, how is
it possible, Like I don't understand. I think that, I think, yeah,
I think that. I think that really for Julian and I,
it was really like it was so obvious that we
had a crush, like a massive crush in one another,
(23:00):
I think in a lot of ways. But but I
think that at the same time, there are these things
I think you come into in life where it's like,
you know, that's this is a deep you know, this
isn't like friends that are past thing or fleeing, et cetera.
This is something bigger, I think than us. And to
(23:20):
kind of I think tamper with it felt funny. So
it was kind of like once we were in we
knew we were it was going to be something big
in our lives. I think we both intuited that in
a big way, and so it I think that we
both and we've totally talked about that in retrospective, like
(23:40):
of course, I you know, of course, I think we've
been in love all along, but to really like as
young people especially no you know, we're like nineteen years old,
really young, um, and kind of seeing one another and
going like whoa life right, like, we're going to go
through lots of experiences. I feel like it's such a
(24:02):
blessing that he and I were able to have our
our young lives and have experiences and then and then
come together and and you know, have like a union
and have a relationship and be each other's truly each
other's best friends and each other's partners. Was I feel
so lucky for that, And I feel lucky that we
(24:24):
were able to do it when the time was right
and not rush into it when we're kids, you know,
and then kind of pressure put pressure on ourselves for
everything to be kind of in a row. It felt
really um. I think at the time it felt frustrating
because it's such a crush on Julian forever, and then
I was like, what the what's going on here? Come on?
(24:44):
But then in retrospect, I go like, thank god, we
were able to kind of just do our thing and
be young and you know, go through the like college
years and all this awkward stuff, and then you know,
when we're actually adult that can actually see it for
what it is, you know, be kind of stewards of
that kind of love was really special. So yeah, and
(25:07):
you had time to develop your craft. And yeah, totally
like I was geez man, I was working side jobs,
I was babysitting, I was doing all this. I was
hustling really intense um and in New York City as
a twenty one year old, you know, like it's intense.
It's really intense and hard on your body. And I
(25:27):
didn't have time. I have time to like, you know,
really be in a relationship. And he didn't either. You know,
he was joining his hardest working man I know, honestly,
he's he really he hits it hard. And so I
think both of us were in a phase where we
were just really wanting to kind of initiate our relationship
(25:48):
to being a professional, you know, and being a working
person in the world. And I could not imagine trying
to really be in a real relationship and and go
through things you have to go through in order to
just like get a job, you know, as a musician.
I just think it's it was crazy. It was a
(26:09):
crazy time, for sure. Something. I'm a good friend. We'll
be right back with more good friend after this quick break.
(26:31):
You both are our musicians, and you know, I'm married
to one. And the term is gigging, you know, you
gig all the time everywhere your you tour. You you know,
we're Chris's friends with Loud and Wayne right, and I
mean there's a dude who just as on the road
and there it must be very hard. So, Emily, when
(26:51):
you're touring and you tour a lot, when you have
an album and then you're supporting it, you and you tour,
how do you, I mean, are you able to hold
on to friendships? You know? I asked. I interviewed Amy
klobuchar Um, Senator. I call her Amy on the show,
but I would say to her officially, I interviewed Senator
(27:14):
Amy clobachar and because I was fascinated, how how is
she hold on to anything? She runs the universe right?
And how does she stay how does she find out
about your sick dog? Like no, because that's what good
friends do with each other. How does she do that?
(27:35):
I'm curious you, Emily, have been able to maintain I
mean you said it like people have to know I'm
off doing my thing right. Either that or or you
get them into the show. Yes, but um, but when
all else failed, you hire them. I mean to say
(27:58):
I feel guilty, but on many of my dear friends
are my band members and and and I think that's
been sort of a lesson that I've learned, is you
want to be surrounded with people that you love and
that encourage you, and you just it's just good vibes.
When you're on the road that long, you literally it's
like having five roommates that you just see every single day.
(28:22):
And so I feel fortunate because I think the touring
has really bonded me with with a handful of really
dear friends that I don't think we would have had
that experience otherwise, Um, you know, you cry together. It's
been it's just so hard on the road that you
just you just fall into each other's arms and and uh.
(28:44):
And that's kind of how bonds are made. I think
actors do the opposite. They bond and then they and
then they go right then you never see people again. Sad.
It's sad, but it's very much the way of the
movie business. Whereas in the music business, as you said,
(29:04):
you have a band, you rehearse, you work something, you
you create, you then practice it and then you perform
it for often a year at a time. Right, that's right,
But it's easy to lose touch I mean, I've not
been great about keeping in touch, and that's always on
my year's resolution list, and I I do. This might
(29:28):
be a cop out, but there is that intuition and
we're always thinking of each other and we're always sending
love and I sometimes I'll think of someone and they'll
just pop up on my phone and I was like,
they caught my way, you know, they caught it, and uh,
but it. It has been one of the places I've
I've made my closest friends is on the road, because
(29:48):
it's hard to maintain those things when you're always traveling.
And we didn't have face time when Margaret, when I
met you, I don't know what what kind of did
we have back then? Don't? And then you make making
new friends is like when you talk about your new
friendship that I'm so in love with that concept because
(30:10):
I mean, it's possible, right to make new friends along
the way. I mean, there's so many there's so many
people say, well, you just gotta keep you know that
that one guy that you shared your cupcake with in
third grade, that's your true friend, that guy. Right time
equals friendship time equals the longer you know somebody, the
(30:32):
better friends you are, but sometimes it's like, yeah, it's
not necessarily true, but there is, there's there, there is
something to knowing someone out of your life. It's very
special obviously. Yeah, feel like those connections. It's like saying that,
it's like saying that, you know, the Internet is so quick, right,
I think humans are quicker. I think we're much quicker,
(30:56):
you know, like the I you know, humans are you know, elepathic,
et cetera, Like we know what's up very quickly, and
Google is like it's encyclopedia. It's not it's not like
there isn't this kind of intuition that I think humans have.
So I think you're right. I don't think that just
because you've known someone forever, um doesn't necessarily mean that
(31:18):
you have like a connection that Yeah, that is as
true as others for sure. It's like it's like puppies
or dogs when they just there they are their friends,
you know, just so fast, no questions asked. I'm I'm
a big, big proponent, and certainly my listener knows this,
(31:40):
so they're probably tired of me talking about it, but
that's okay. Um is the calcification around relationships that hardened,
you know, rigid, hardened shell around calcifications come when things
just you, it just builds up and before you know it,
(32:03):
something that had fluidity and movement feels very um, obligatory
and feels very m It feels dead. To be perfectly honest,
I think there's deadness to relationships. And I am talking
(32:25):
about kind of the metamorphosis that the whole idea. I mean,
I'm sixty um two, you know, I am trying almost
yearly to shed ideas and people and things because this
is my life, this is mine. I have to emerge
(32:50):
a new to be able to have creative ideas, to
be able to look at something anew. And I I
worry in friendships that sometimes those old old friends for
people are the rock that holds them together, the that
that is exactly what they want. And then other people,
(33:12):
I think, do feel um contained by it in a
way that doesn't feel good and it needs to get
cracked open to let the light in, to let the
air in, to let something new happen. Um. Do you yeah? Now?
Go on? Do you find I'm trying? Um? Do you
(33:41):
think it's okay to release a friendship? You know that
is not stimulating one person because one person is, you know,
walking up this way and the other person is just
sitting there and you're like, aren't you coming? And they're like, no,
I'm good here. I mean, is it okay to let go? Yeah?
(34:04):
Or is that wrong? Because that's struggle. I think I
think that's life. I think that's the beautiful evolution. The
evolutionary nature of human beings is that we can move
on and move past things, and that we aren't calcified,
and that we aren't rigid. That we are we we
(34:26):
are flexible. We can change our mind. Oh you know,
you can change your mind over and over again. You
can be reborn again. You have a new idea, and
sometimes those relationships are old ideas. Margaret is sitting there
(34:52):
even though you're the listener doesn't know this because we're
looking at each other, even though the listener isn't Margaret
has sort of got this beautiful smile on her face,
and she's sort of nodding gently into a nice rhythm.
I want to know what the song is that she's
not into, because there's some rhythm, you know, some musical
note going on in her but beautiful. It's a beautiful
(35:13):
I think it. I think who said that I think
it was Actually Jillian's mom was just so one of
such a wonderful person. She said, and it maybe a quote,
but you come into this world alone and you leave alone.
And I think that it's just you know, comment what
you're saying, Jamie. It's so I feel like I remember
(35:34):
that sometimes, so right I am, even though it can
feel like it even when and I feel like Julian
and I remember this all the time. It almost hurts
to feel like you you grow into one another, that
two people can be one person. And I think with
friendships sometimes I even think of that too, that that
person is an extension of myself and it's not true.
(35:58):
You know, it's like I am just alone. I'm alone
in my body and in my mind and my heart.
It's okay, and that that kind of evolution. I think
when I start to recognize that I am, I did
come into this world alone, and I will leave alone,
it's to clarify sometimes that, um, yeah, tomorrow is not promised.
(36:24):
What am I going to do today? You know? And
will I do it with with? You know? Will I?
Will I engage in things that don't inspire me or
spread things to other people that don't inspire other people.
I could be the dead weight and somebody else's life.
Who knows understanding that? Like it's that like just what
you're saying. The metamorphosis, I think is had heavy, it's deep.
(36:47):
I think it's a it's like a constant, be here
now kind of situation. Absolutely, that's it's hard hard quote
quote dependency as the word. I just walking down the
street and heard someone in passing say codependency. I said,
you talk, You are talking to me. You know that's
(37:09):
New York than I was going to say over here,
someone's conversation in that way, just one or two words
like codependency. If you live out in southern California, you
walk down the street, they say gluten free air one. Yeah,
you know, there's no code that. I don't think people
(37:30):
run out And what did that say to you? It's
it's absolutely something that I have, uh, you know, an
addiction to. And I've been with someone for many, many
years and you know, we it's like you, it's the morning, afternoon,
(37:52):
night communications, it's the good night before bed. And when
I missed that. When I don't have that, oh my gosh,
break down, just feel utterly alone. And I didn't really
realize that about myself unto yesterday. But um, it's hard
(38:13):
to beat. I usually have the distraction of travel and
shows and performances. You're just you're an artist and you're
a performer. Yeah, just having people around you know, and
that would feed feed this insatiable ego. But again, you're
(38:35):
an artist, you're a performer. To perform, it just makes
a lot of sense. That feels out of place just
to be in your househol dayly, Oh my gosh, bizarre,
it's very bizarre. But but you're right about the um.
And I'm reading, you know, I'm reading books and Jamie,
you sent me some beautiful books and it's really helping
(38:58):
me because I have another one. I'm not the only one.
Oh really, thank you. I will be sending one on
in about an hour. Oh so sweet. No, really, there's
that intuition because you I just can't believe the timing,
you know. It's this has been like the hardest year
for many people, and I am in that boat for sure.
(39:22):
But spring is springing. Spring is springing, and you have
good friends around you. You have people who you can
be who you are and where you are and feeling
what you feel, and you know that people do care
about you and will listen or not or bear witness
(39:44):
to it, um, you know, or play music with you,
just to know that's that. Margaret, we did that last week.
She called me and I went over there and just
like we I just love one of my parents. He
is talking about music with someone who who I truly
(40:05):
respect their opinion and also like they love music so much,
and it's just such a joy. It's like we're eating
cake or just listening to songs and we're like psyche
and like this is why I love this, you know,
And and that's way better than about what you don't
have or what you want. Well, Margaret and I had that.
(40:27):
Thank you, by the way. And I'm not a musician,
and yet I love music and have listened to music.
Music has been the most important aspect of my sort
of creative life is music, even though I'm not a musician. Um.
Although I did play in Seawan Cassidy's first band, Yeah
(40:50):
I did. I played rhythm guitar, and I'm not buying it. Well,
I'm just letting you know. I did play rhythm on
Cities first band in seventh grade. I did have a
little Fender amp and you know a little um, but
my point is um. Margaret and I we started talking
(41:14):
about songs and how messaging and how time and place
changes how you look at something, and you know, the
sexual exploitation of women, and we started talking about We
started like it felt like we were writing music together,
(41:35):
even though I'm we're not writing music together, because I'm
also like, it's cheerleading. I think friendship is a lot
of cheerleading. It's very much what you said at the
beginning of our conversation was you guys sitting at her
feet or them sitting at your feet as you performed,
and you look down there they are, and they're cheering
(41:58):
their friend. Artists collaborating, you know. Person. Yeah, and we
had that. Margaret and I started jamming about songs that
were written. The Beatles song, well, she was just seventeen,
you know what I mean. The way she looked was
(42:19):
way beyond compare. You know what I mean, This is
a seventeen year old girl, and in the time, nobody
thought twice about it anymore than my milkshake brings all
the boys to the yard. Really, um, okay, But what
was interesting was then from Margaret to sing them with
(42:41):
that from a point of view that was very different.
What was the other one, Margaret, You're much too younger,
Oh right, And so I have goose bumps. I have
goose bumps on both my arms because it was only sixty.
There's a lot of songs that are like that. I've
(43:02):
just you know, it's like a it's kind of like
a what is it. It's it's almost like a little
spectacle that like the point of the song feels like
the spectacle of being in love within an under underage girl,
which was very prominent in the music business of course. Yeah,
(43:23):
um Elvis, mm hmm, Jerry Lee Lewis, And I mean
I'm pulling those out of my ass, you know what
I mean. Like, I'm just like, it's not like I
have off the top of your head. Yeah, I would
ask you went in. See, that's why we're good collaboration,
I know, but that's how it felt. And see, it
(43:46):
was so interesting because we didn't know each other and
I was a sixty two year old woman. I've not
really looked through that lens of how young women were
objectified by music in a way. That is something to
bring up in a world today where we now bring
up all sorts of aspects of things, right, And I
(44:10):
just remember that moment, Margaret. I'll never forget that moment.
And of course, and you just sort of start singing
songs and you're I'm like, oh my god, really, but
it's just there. It felt to me like we were
writing songs even though we weren't. Yeah, yeah, I would
imagine it's the same creative sort of trigger that makes
(44:31):
you want to express your thoughts, you know, just music
is there to help help that. But I think that's
it's so interesting that to to as music as a
reflection of society at the time that we're in. You know,
they were being honest for that time, you know, and
and people haven't changed, but maybe they're less honest because
(44:56):
they know that they have to be politically correct. But um,
you know, it's it's interesting because when something is wrapped
in a happy such a happy feel and tempo, you
kind of forget what it's about. Yeah. Yeah, I remember
being that was like you know, oldies, like in the
minivan growing up as a kid, and I was belting
(45:17):
out those songs as like a sixteen year old. Yeah,
you know, like it's pretty meta in a lot of ways,
just to think about these were things that I loved
and I love those musicians, the performances, etcetera. And the
messages are terrible and it's didn't I mean our history, etcetera, America,
pop culture, etcetera. Is written with this obviously, but just
(45:41):
to start to contextualize it. And I remember that to
Jamie of just us kind of having this backlog of
fascination and um kind of attention to these really kind
of particular nuances about music and songs, um and how
dated and how sexist and bizarre they were. It was
(46:06):
a really interesting collaboration with you to really talk about
it and also just to know like I don't know
you really that well yet, and and all of a
sudden we're getting to the bottom of something really quick.
It was amazing. It was really amazing. Well before I
leave or lose, you both to the hustle. And by
the way, you're looking at a hustler. I you know,
(46:29):
when I was traveling around the world selling the Halloween movie,
and it was you know, it was planes, cars, like
it was like in out on in out on in
out on in out all around the world. I would like,
wherever we were, whatever we were doing, I was going
(46:49):
do do do do do do do do do? I
so love a good hustle because I'm a hard worker.
I loved to hospital and you know, this show is
an example. Like I was like, I've never done but
it's like, you know what it's we're in a lockdown.
(47:10):
I missed my friends. This song blows my mind. How
about I do a show called good Friend Boom done so?
But because it was born from a song, and of
course there's so many songs about friendship. And I will
tell you I was a girl away at boarding school
my senior year of high school. I was away at
(47:31):
a boarding school in Connecticut. Too long of a story
to explain why. And you know, I would listen to
Joni Mitchell's Blue and I would sob missing California because
I'm born and raised girl from California and there I
was in in it so and I think about Carol
King's You've Got a Friend and songs about friendship of
(47:54):
how what that does to you? And this show was
born from a song MHM that said there's something I
need I don't already have. I get it from a
good friend. I get something from from people, and so
I just wasn't going to ask you both if there
was a song besides good Friend that I know it's
(48:15):
putting you on the spot a tiny bed, and I've
already blown it by saying Carol King's You've got a friend?
But is there? I mean, it's just music is astonishing
to me, and the way it can communicate a feeling
in your soul, yeah, about someone? And is there anything
that pops into either one of your heads about that?
(48:36):
I know it's got a weird thing to ask, but no,
it's beautiful that it's one of my favorite sentiments because
it is so universal. You know, it doesn't have to
be passionate love which comes and goes, but it's just
it's that more settled, like the saviors that we have.
(48:56):
And um, I mean I'll just be quarantine and say
lean on me, Phil even don't even don't I mean
sometimes don't even. I could cry listening to It's just
(49:17):
so easy da um. But yeah, I mean that's my favorite.
I feel like I want to name off some Margaret
songs because I mean, young Love that's one of my
favorite songs ever. And I don't know if that's just
about I mean, I think I could be about friendship.
(49:40):
I feel I feel lucky do have been in quarantine
with Like obviously, quarantine has been very very hard. I
mean for so so many people, for so many different reasons. Um,
and I feel incredibly blessed to have been in quarantine
with someone I can call my best friend and that
(50:01):
that song captures that for me in writing that song
that you're talking about, Emily, Um, because it's totally like
you know, about my my love for my best friends.
That's just what it is. Yeah, a safe place that
we can fight in as we can cry and too.
(50:22):
And that was what what happened. We had to stay
in the house, we had to be able to you know,
exist in tight quarters. And I feel so blessed that
it was okay. You know, I think for a lot
of people that's a test. That's the trust me for me,
(50:44):
the musically, the things that come up for me for good,
you know, good friends. I can't think of a particular song,
but there's artists to me that I feel like when
I listened to them, I think of my friends and
that's for me. Joni mitchell Is was really that's all
my childhood and it's funny, Jamie, you're saying like, you're
a girl from California, so am I. And I think
(51:06):
that California was when I moved out to Boston and
I was in on the East Coast, and it was
cold and old and intense and intellectual and different than
I had experienced as a child, being you know, in
the trees and running through the fields and being a
super country girl. When I listened to California, I it's
(51:29):
similarly weep, weep and ball um. And then I would say,
listening to Aretha Franklin, I think just connects. It reminds
me what's important, and it connects me to my musician
friends in my heart and soul. I listened to Aretha, Um,
I think of my dearest often my dearest female friends
(51:54):
that are in the music industry, and I just I
feel like I'm gonna be okay, It's all gonna be
all right. So well, we're going to be all right
because we get through it together as friends. And I
could not be more delighted that this triumvirate of new
and old friends came together in this way today to
(52:18):
just you know, be with my listener and so with Julian.
So we didn't even know that we were gonna be
with Julian today, so it's so good anyway, I'm I'm
just grateful and feel very yummy. I'm going to go
play music really loud. Yes, I'm going to think about
(52:40):
everything that you guys have said today. It was a
beautiful conversation and thank you. Thank you for bringing us together,
teaching me a new word. Yes, well, stay tuned as
the kids say so for the listener, um, stay safe
out there, God bless you and thank you for listening
to the good Friend podcast UM with my guests Emily
(53:03):
King and Margaret Blasphemy by Everybody good. Good Friend is
produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production of my
Heart Radio. Our theme song good Friend is written, produced,
(53:28):
and performed by Emily King. Already Nugative from a good Friend,
Don't already from a good Friend. For more podcasts from
(53:48):
my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
If there's something, I'll get it if I'm a good friend. Hi, everybody,
it's Jamie Lee Curtis. You're listening to the Good Friend Podcast,
presented to you by I Heart Radio. It's a podcast
(00:22):
about friendship, sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly,
the triumphs of friendship, the immense connection and emotion of friendship,
the laughter and occasionally the tears. We explore it all
in an unscripted, very free form way with many, many
(00:42):
different guests, some I'm very close friends with, some I've
never met. And I hope that you will take away
from it something that connects you to your friends, and
that the ideas that we talk about can maybe be
taken into your own friendships. So sit back, or take
a walk, or however you listen. I hope you enjoy
(01:03):
it and stay tuned a locative. I'm a good friend.
Hi everyone, it's Jamie Lee Curtis, and be here listening
to the Good Friend Podcast. It's good, I know. But
but what we were talking about is that my natural
(01:24):
joy register for two singers is very high, even though
I kind of have that deeper voice in the truth
is um. We were just talking about the fact that
for the listener. By the way, I think I have one,
so I I like to refer to my listener. Just
you know, my feeling is better too. I always underplay,
(01:47):
so I'm gonna say that to my listener. Um. When
we began talking here, my little dog, when I got
very excited when I saw Emily King and Margaret glass By.
When I saw them because I'm seeing them, you're not
because this is a podcast, not a video podcast. I
(02:08):
my voice went really high. It was like and my
dog immediately jumped up and was like, where are we going?
Are we going? What are we doing? Are we going somewhere?
So forgive me everyone. Um, I'm very happy to have
my friends here, my good friends, even though even though
I have never met one of them, so good, it's
(02:30):
so special for me. It's always both in the same room.
It's like so surreal and so fun. It's really really
And that's Margaret Margaret who I do know, Margaret who
I do know, who recently got married, and and Emily,
who I don't know. Um, But for the uninitiated listener, Um,
(02:52):
none of this would happen or would have happened. I
don't think I would have thought of doing a podcast
if it were not for Emily King what because it
was her song that you've already been listening to isn
the intro. It was her song good Friend that so
(03:15):
wildly gave us the title of our podcast. It gave
the idea for the podcast. Um, And so I wanted
to just publicly acknowledge that and thank you Emily for
oh my gosh, thank you that such a you know,
you just never knows listening And it was just such
(03:37):
a blessing out of the blue to hear from you
that day. And I didn't believe it was you. I
gotta say, I thought I was being scammed. I pulled
my friend. I said, this is not her. She wouldn't
do and you know, I think it's just a I
(03:59):
learned something that day, because you really you seem like
the kind of person that leads with your heart and
puts fear aside. And so that was a little lesson
for me, like why not just reach out to somebody
out of the blue, Thank you, well, thank you? And
the other funny connect the dot here, which is why
we are doing a three way And I mean that people,
(04:22):
I'm listening for my listener. I mean that in the
triumvirate way, not that other way. That word right exactly
which one triumvirate that's right. Triumvirt is the triangle, the
three of us, three paneled people. But yeah, that other
(04:46):
thing I've never done, by the way, I mean, you
know what I figured, I Heart Radio will be very
happy if I throw out once in a while something
like wait, what she's never done a three way, and
then it'll make it onto page six. Yeah, we gotta
keep it, yes, a little bit. And my but the
(05:08):
Margaret Blasphy connection of the triumvirate is that Margaret and
I are friends through our husband's um. Margaret's partner husband
is Julian Lage. My husband, Christopher Guest is. Julian is
a virtuo so maestro of the guitar um. He's a
(05:29):
spectacular musician, um songwriter. He's fantastic dude. And my husband,
Christopher Guest is also a musician and a fantastic and he,
you know, very much admires Julian. And so, just as
a weird acide, Chris came to visit me when I
(05:50):
was shooting knives out in Boston only because I mentioned
to him that at the Berkeley College of Music, where
he used to be a board member. Julian was doing
a concert at the college the weekend. This was going
to visit, and I swear to you it was not
(06:11):
a conjugal visit. It was a a orchestral visit. And
so Chris came in. We had never he had never
met Julian. We went to Berkeley, Chris, you know, and
Julian did that mind mild the way musicians do, and
we became friendly, and Margaret and Julian were dating, and
(06:32):
they came out and stayed at our home and we um.
Margaret and I became instant friends around music and ideas
and women. And then I'm following both of you on
the socials and there was a picture of the two
of you, and I was like, what you know each other?
(06:55):
And that's why, that's why, for the listener we are
here together as to try am for it is that
this was a friendship. The show was born from Emily
and here I have a deep friendship with a new
deep friendship with Margaret. So that's the long preamble I'm
gonna start. And now we're a band, And now we're
a band. I'm not sure you want me in the band.
(07:18):
Because I don't I know that we want you, Jamie.
You know what I do. I could like drum something.
I think you do it all, do it all? No,
I don't know, I could maybe you know that's tambourine, though,
was just so I don't know anyway, I want to
ask you start with a question. Was there a specific
(07:39):
friend that you wrote that song for? Emily? Well, there
might have been in the moment, but I do remember
it was an ode to everybody who's helped me in
my life, which you know, I think one of the
myths of show business is that you get your big
break from from agents or managers or people that are
you know, behind the scenes. But from my experience, all
(08:03):
of my sort of blessings have been from other singers,
other musicians, UM. And so it was sort of an
ode to all those people who call you and say, hey,
do you want to come on tour with me? And
I'm like, yes, I really please. UM And just those
moments where you know people can really just like the
(08:23):
call from you. I mean, it's just all these little
Christmas mornings, you know, so that I don't know if
it was a specific person long story unless no, it's
an interesting story, Um, Margaret, how do you respond to
the idea of a good friend? Like this song is
so clear, Like I remember the first time I heard
(08:46):
it was like, oh MG, that is I actually added
in ft the oh m f G. But you know,
I remember when I first heard it. But just the
idea of a good friend? What does that in Like,
what does that do to you when you say the
word good friend? I think it similarly to Emily, like
(09:07):
in her reference to just saying the thought of a
good friend is it feels like support, feels like support,
and it feels like inspiration, and it feels like a
communal feeling for me, Um, I know that even with Emily,
Like I have memories Emily. I don't know if you
remember this, but I'm not Emily for a really long time,
(09:27):
and We've kind of been in and out of each
other's lives forever and kind of when I came to
New York when I was probably like I don't know,
I think I came to New York I was thirty two.
Now I would run into Emily and I looked up
to her so much, and she would often, you know,
in hearing my music, say if you need anything, I'm
here for you and I got you and being in
(09:51):
the New York scene and kind of you know, just
like hustling so hardcore time in a way that I think, um,
I don't know, I think it's I think the New
York scene is really specific and very different than other
like every scene is, I think for music, Um, but
(10:11):
in New York is especially hard. It's really hard on
you and you're you know, you've got the highest rent
anyone could pay. You've got you know, kind of like
the least amount of clubs in a way to like,
it's it's hard for everybody to pay their rent. So
there's less and less studios and less and less venues,
and so there's only so many places to do your thing.
And I think that what you know, friendship has meant
(10:35):
to me is support in a way that maybe even
feels at times unorthodox. It's not necessarily you know, the
person that I'm talking to every day, but the person
that I just kind of know understands me and understands
what I'm doing and my mindset. Um, that feels really
supportive to me and like a good friend truly. So
(10:57):
I've always felt that from Emily that's a special bond.
I think I am. It's just it's not about whether
you're constantly chatting or constantly knowing every detail of one
another's lives. It's more about just like I know, I
know what's up, yeah, understand what you're going through or
(11:17):
what you're what's on your plate, just because I feel
like you have an intuition with me, Like I don't know,
you just come or like into my mind, into my
life at these moments, like you know, just last week
or just you know a couple of months ago when
you called me, and I was in this crazy transition.
(11:40):
And I do feel like our jobs are to be
alone a lot of the time, and we're always trying
to figure out our emotions so that we can make
them songs and that type of thing. But but there
is this. It feels like an unconditional love. It really does,
Like you know, and what am I? This is friendship?
(12:06):
Like playing I don't know how many years ago this was.
I think it was maybe ten years ago. Playing a
gig in Brooklyn and there's like ten people there, and
two of those people are Margaret and Jenna, but songwriter,
(12:26):
and you know, when you're in like an empty sort
of audience and your instinct is to go back into
the back of the room, and there you guys are
like in the front, clapping and smart like and just
beating me this. I mean, I can't even describe what
it means to to an artist who's on stage and
you're insecure and all this stuff, and to see people
(12:49):
that you really respect giving you this love I mean, yeah,
and get choked up because that's really what it's about. Yeah. Yeah,
I think that there's like a to just put a
cap on that. I feel like there is when you
said that musicians is like your job is to be
alone a lot, and at the same time it realized
so much on collaboration, and I think that, Um, at
(13:13):
times it's been hard to keep friends because because you're
never around, you're never in the same place, and anybody
that wants to rely on you in a physical sense
of like be there, it's you're not going to be
you know, you're I'm in Belgium right now, I can't
come to baby shower or whatever it might be. Um,
(13:33):
it can be hard to keep kind of maybe more
traditional friendships in that sense, and so you learn quickly
you know who you can rely on in a different
way I think more psychologically. So that's been definitely I
think what I see and good friends that I have,
and and honestly, i'd probably ventured to say I don't
(13:54):
have a whole lot of mainly good friends. Um, I
have a circle of people that really I feel like
understand me and I understand them. And I've come to
think realized that as I get older, probably I think
what you just talked about was telepathy. You know, there is.
It's interesting because of course there are people who are
(14:17):
good friends who, as you said, call five times a day,
who say, you know, I'm okay, I'll talk to you
after lunch. When you talk to them after lunch, and
then it's like okay, I'm gonna walk the dog. I'll
call you later. And there is that maybe two emeshed
connection with another person that sometimes comes out of a
(14:38):
more quote Titian life, a more day in day out
school runs coffee clotch. You know, those shows like The
View and The Talk were invented to represent the woman
kind of collective, the woman coffee clutch of people having
conversations over a cup of coffee, and of course now
(15:00):
it's turned into a very adversarial construct so that you
get the opposite opinions and people are supporting their opposite opinions,
which to me isn't I mean, they're wonderful shows and
the people on them. I'm not trying to get political here.
I'm simply saying that I think that was born out
(15:21):
of a need that women have, but particularly women to
gather together. And you can have that with other moms
who you're in school with. I mean many people who
listen to podcasts their moms and they'll be sitting there going, yeah,
that's what I do. My friends and I we take
a coffee run, or we do a challenge. You know,
I'm going to do ten thousand steps today after after
(15:43):
drop off, and that's how they talk. But artists, when
I'm so happy about talking to the two of you
as artists, is that artists are inherently lonely. Are art
is lonely? The creation of art? You know, there's this
(16:05):
wonderful quote um that I will butcher, so I'm not
going to butcher it. But it's from Steinbeck. It's from
east of Eden, and it talks about that creation only
comes from the individual mind of a man. Uh. He
said a man, I'm going to a woman. But that
nothing great was invented by nothing great was created by
(16:30):
two people. But the seed, the spark, the moment of
creation comes from one person, even if it's a reaction
to another person, there is one person and then immediately
can get built on. But that is the loneliness of
the mind of a man or a woman, the human
(16:52):
It is the loneliness and art comes from that. And
so it's so interesting to me that you both have
brought up that perspective already. It's a new perspective we
have not heard here on the Good Friend podcast. It's
a juxtaposition because I feel often shamed like I should
be more outgoing with friends and and um. But then
(17:18):
I find my inner art instincts is like, okay, you
need to be okay with just sitting here right now
and and be open to the muse and um. But
specifically during this pandemic, I learned to appreciate socializing a
lot more. How important that is just hearing, you know,
(17:42):
seeing Margaret's main pop up on my phone, or just
like you know, having some interruption between those moments where
you it's not it's not a happy place to create.
Most of the time. It's it's a you're either you know,
below the surface of the water or you're just kind
(18:02):
of floating there, but you're not necessarily like on the wave.
Like this is great. Usually when I'm really excited about
an idea, it stinks. Again. It's art. There is no
it's art. That art has no uh you know, there's
(18:26):
no recipe. It's it's art and it's the magic of it.
And um, I just think it was such an interesting perspective.
We'll be right back with more good friend after this
quick break, so stick around, friend. I don't know what
(18:56):
I was going to tell you, Emily, is that Julian
and Margaret are new friends of ours. You know, we
are creating new memories together. Um, we both we the
four of us are very fond of each other. You know.
The the dude sort of went off and did dude things.
The chicks went off and did chick things, And there
(19:18):
was a moment where, um, I don't even think you
were you engaged at that point, Margaret, I don't think
you were. I don't think you were even engaged at
that point, and they were sitting you were, remember, because
I got that cake for Julian that was our anniversary
of us dating, right right, Okay, So my point is
(19:41):
for the uninitiated listener. So, um, Julian and Margaret were
sitting in our kitchen, um which Chris claims has like
fabulous acoustics, and they and they had met at Berkeley. Now,
you guys are as good as friends as a couple.
You guys are good friends. You were friends before correct?
(20:06):
Mm hm oh, she's looking Margaret's like we are we Oh,
Julia and I yea friends for since we met. We
were always best friends. And then we started dating, probably
like six years into knowing one another. Wow. Right, it
is the way to go. I agree with you. And
but here's what happened, Emily. I think you will be um.
(20:28):
You'll see where I'm going. So they played a song,
so I you know, am Jamie and so they said
they met in college. And I was like, okay, and
you weren't just like mad for her like right away?
And he was like no, and I'm They played a
song at the kitchen table, and the way they looked
(20:49):
at each other and I said to him in that room,
I said, you mean you played that on and looked
at her the way you are looking at her right now,
when you were younger and in college, and you didn't
(21:13):
just lean in and grab her face her a beautiful kiss. No.
And I remember I took off my engagement ring, my
wedding ring, and I handed it to him, and it
was like, Julian, Julian, I'm the old lady here, just here,
(21:33):
here you go. He's been encouraging Julian to put a
ring on it. I think, all right, did you do
the Beyonce song? You turn on the like Sirie play
Beyonce and then he didn't dance. Okay. I have never
told Siri to do anything. I don't help that function either,
(21:53):
but other people have it so cool, I know. But
guess what. Siri is not a good friend. You know,
Siri is not a good friend because you know, Siri
does thing. She listens and then betrays you and then
betrays you exactly. Um. Anyway, my point was simply that
(22:17):
what I remembered about that moment was simply that here
you were telling me that you guys were good friends
in college and that but you weren't romantic friends. You
were good friends. You were best friends, and you made
music together and you create you know, you were creative
(22:39):
people together. And what I kept saying is, how is
it possible, Like I don't understand. I think that, I think, yeah,
I think that. I think that really for Julian and I,
it was really like it was so obvious that we
had a crush, like a massive crush in one another,
(23:00):
I think in a lot of ways. But but I
think that at the same time, there are these things
I think you come into in life where it's like,
you know, that's this is a deep you know, this
isn't like friends that are past thing or fleeing, et cetera.
This is something bigger, I think than us. And to
(23:20):
kind of I think tamper with it felt funny. So
it was kind of like once we were in we
knew we were it was going to be something big
in our lives. I think we both intuited that in
a big way, and so it I think that we
both and we've totally talked about that in retrospective, like
(23:40):
of course, I you know, of course, I think we've
been in love all along, but to really like as
young people especially no you know, we're like nineteen years old,
really young, um, and kind of seeing one another and
going like whoa life right, like, we're going to go
through lots of experiences. I feel like it's such a
(24:02):
blessing that he and I were able to have our
our young lives and have experiences and then and then
come together and and you know, have like a union
and have a relationship and be each other's truly each
other's best friends and each other's partners. Was I feel
so lucky for that, And I feel lucky that we
(24:24):
were able to do it when the time was right
and not rush into it when we're kids, you know,
and then kind of pressure put pressure on ourselves for
everything to be kind of in a row. It felt
really um. I think at the time it felt frustrating
because it's such a crush on Julian forever, and then
I was like, what the what's going on here? Come on?
(24:44):
But then in retrospect, I go like, thank god, we
were able to kind of just do our thing and
be young and you know, go through the like college
years and all this awkward stuff, and then you know,
when we're actually adult that can actually see it for
what it is, you know, be kind of stewards of
that kind of love was really special. So yeah, and
(25:07):
you had time to develop your craft. And yeah, totally
like I was geez man, I was working side jobs,
I was babysitting, I was doing all this. I was
hustling really intense um and in New York City as
a twenty one year old, you know, like it's intense.
It's really intense and hard on your body. And I
(25:27):
didn't have time. I have time to like, you know,
really be in a relationship. And he didn't either. You know,
he was joining his hardest working man I know, honestly,
he's he really he hits it hard. And so I
think both of us were in a phase where we
were just really wanting to kind of initiate our relationship
(25:48):
to being a professional, you know, and being a working
person in the world. And I could not imagine trying
to really be in a real relationship and and go
through things you have to go through in order to
just like get a job, you know, as a musician.
I just think it's it was crazy. It was a
(26:09):
crazy time, for sure. Something. I'm a good friend. We'll
be right back with more good friend after this quick break.
(26:31):
You both are our musicians, and you know, I'm married
to one. And the term is gigging, you know, you
gig all the time everywhere your you tour. You you know,
we're Chris's friends with Loud and Wayne right, and I
mean there's a dude who just as on the road
and there it must be very hard. So, Emily, when
(26:51):
you're touring and you tour a lot, when you have
an album and then you're supporting it, you and you tour,
how do you, I mean, are you able to hold
on to friendships? You know? I asked. I interviewed Amy
klobuchar Um, Senator. I call her Amy on the show,
but I would say to her officially, I interviewed Senator
(27:14):
Amy clobachar and because I was fascinated, how how is
she hold on to anything? She runs the universe right?
And how does she stay how does she find out
about your sick dog? Like no, because that's what good
friends do with each other. How does she do that?
(27:35):
I'm curious you, Emily, have been able to maintain I
mean you said it like people have to know I'm
off doing my thing right. Either that or or you
get them into the show. Yes, but um, but when
all else failed, you hire them. I mean to say
(27:58):
I feel guilty, but on many of my dear friends
are my band members and and and I think that's
been sort of a lesson that I've learned, is you
want to be surrounded with people that you love and
that encourage you, and you just it's just good vibes.
When you're on the road that long, you literally it's
like having five roommates that you just see every single day.
(28:22):
And so I feel fortunate because I think the touring
has really bonded me with with a handful of really
dear friends that I don't think we would have had
that experience otherwise, Um, you know, you cry together. It's
been it's just so hard on the road that you
just you just fall into each other's arms and and uh.
(28:44):
And that's kind of how bonds are made. I think
actors do the opposite. They bond and then they and
then they go right then you never see people again. Sad.
It's sad, but it's very much the way of the
movie business. Whereas in the music business, as you said,
(29:04):
you have a band, you rehearse, you work something, you
you create, you then practice it and then you perform
it for often a year at a time. Right, that's right,
But it's easy to lose touch I mean, I've not
been great about keeping in touch, and that's always on
my year's resolution list, and I I do. This might
(29:28):
be a cop out, but there is that intuition and
we're always thinking of each other and we're always sending
love and I sometimes I'll think of someone and they'll
just pop up on my phone and I was like,
they caught my way, you know, they caught it, and uh,
but it. It has been one of the places I've
I've made my closest friends is on the road, because
(29:48):
it's hard to maintain those things when you're always traveling.
And we didn't have face time when Margaret, when I
met you, I don't know what what kind of did
we have back then? Don't? And then you make making
new friends is like when you talk about your new
friendship that I'm so in love with that concept because
(30:10):
I mean, it's possible, right to make new friends along
the way. I mean, there's so many there's so many
people say, well, you just gotta keep you know that
that one guy that you shared your cupcake with in
third grade, that's your true friend, that guy. Right time
equals friendship time equals the longer you know somebody, the
(30:32):
better friends you are, but sometimes it's like, yeah, it's
not necessarily true, but there is, there's there, there is
something to knowing someone out of your life. It's very
special obviously. Yeah, feel like those connections. It's like saying that,
it's like saying that, you know, the Internet is so quick, right,
I think humans are quicker. I think we're much quicker,
(30:56):
you know, like the I you know, humans are you know, elepathic,
et cetera, Like we know what's up very quickly, and
Google is like it's encyclopedia. It's not it's not like
there isn't this kind of intuition that I think humans have.
So I think you're right. I don't think that just
because you've known someone forever, um doesn't necessarily mean that
(31:18):
you have like a connection that Yeah, that is as
true as others for sure. It's like it's like puppies
or dogs when they just there they are their friends,
you know, just so fast, no questions asked. I'm I'm
a big, big proponent, and certainly my listener knows this,
(31:40):
so they're probably tired of me talking about it, but
that's okay. Um is the calcification around relationships that hardened,
you know, rigid, hardened shell around calcifications come when things
just you, it just builds up and before you know it,
(32:03):
something that had fluidity and movement feels very um, obligatory
and feels very m It feels dead. To be perfectly honest,
I think there's deadness to relationships. And I am talking
(32:25):
about kind of the metamorphosis that the whole idea. I mean,
I'm sixty um two, you know, I am trying almost
yearly to shed ideas and people and things because this
is my life, this is mine. I have to emerge
(32:50):
a new to be able to have creative ideas, to
be able to look at something anew. And I I
worry in friendships that sometimes those old old friends for
people are the rock that holds them together, the that
that is exactly what they want. And then other people,
(33:12):
I think, do feel um contained by it in a
way that doesn't feel good and it needs to get
cracked open to let the light in, to let the
air in, to let something new happen. Um. Do you yeah? Now?
Go on? Do you find I'm trying? Um? Do you
(33:41):
think it's okay to release a friendship? You know that
is not stimulating one person because one person is, you know,
walking up this way and the other person is just
sitting there and you're like, aren't you coming? And they're like, no,
I'm good here. I mean, is it okay to let go? Yeah?
(34:04):
Or is that wrong? Because that's struggle. I think I
think that's life. I think that's the beautiful evolution. The
evolutionary nature of human beings is that we can move
on and move past things, and that we aren't calcified,
and that we aren't rigid. That we are we we
(34:26):
are flexible. We can change our mind. Oh you know,
you can change your mind over and over again. You
can be reborn again. You have a new idea, and
sometimes those relationships are old ideas. Margaret is sitting there
(34:52):
even though you're the listener doesn't know this because we're
looking at each other, even though the listener isn't Margaret
has sort of got this beautiful smile on her face,
and she's sort of nodding gently into a nice rhythm.
I want to know what the song is that she's
not into, because there's some rhythm, you know, some musical
note going on in her but beautiful. It's a beautiful
(35:13):
I think it. I think who said that I think
it was Actually Jillian's mom was just so one of
such a wonderful person. She said, and it maybe a quote,
but you come into this world alone and you leave alone.
And I think that it's just you know, comment what
you're saying, Jamie. It's so I feel like I remember
(35:34):
that sometimes, so right I am, even though it can
feel like it even when and I feel like Julian
and I remember this all the time. It almost hurts
to feel like you you grow into one another, that
two people can be one person. And I think with
friendships sometimes I even think of that too, that that
person is an extension of myself and it's not true.
(35:58):
You know, it's like I am just alone. I'm alone
in my body and in my mind and my heart.
It's okay, and that that kind of evolution. I think
when I start to recognize that I am, I did
come into this world alone, and I will leave alone,
it's to clarify sometimes that, um, yeah, tomorrow is not promised.
(36:24):
What am I going to do today? You know? And
will I do it with with? You know? Will I?
Will I engage in things that don't inspire me or
spread things to other people that don't inspire other people.
I could be the dead weight and somebody else's life.
Who knows understanding that? Like it's that like just what
you're saying. The metamorphosis, I think is had heavy, it's deep.
(36:47):
I think it's a it's like a constant, be here
now kind of situation. Absolutely, that's it's hard hard quote
quote dependency as the word. I just walking down the
street and heard someone in passing say codependency. I said,
you talk, You are talking to me. You know that's
(37:09):
New York than I was going to say over here,
someone's conversation in that way, just one or two words
like codependency. If you live out in southern California, you
walk down the street, they say gluten free air one. Yeah,
you know, there's no code that. I don't think people
(37:30):
run out And what did that say to you? It's
it's absolutely something that I have, uh, you know, an
addiction to. And I've been with someone for many, many
years and you know, we it's like you, it's the morning, afternoon,
(37:52):
night communications, it's the good night before bed. And when
I missed that. When I don't have that, oh my gosh,
break down, just feel utterly alone. And I didn't really
realize that about myself unto yesterday. But um, it's hard
(38:13):
to beat. I usually have the distraction of travel and
shows and performances. You're just you're an artist and you're
a performer. Yeah, just having people around you know, and
that would feed feed this insatiable ego. But again, you're
(38:35):
an artist, you're a performer. To perform, it just makes
a lot of sense. That feels out of place just
to be in your househol dayly, Oh my gosh, bizarre,
it's very bizarre. But but you're right about the um.
And I'm reading, you know, I'm reading books and Jamie,
you sent me some beautiful books and it's really helping
(38:58):
me because I have another one. I'm not the only one.
Oh really, thank you. I will be sending one on
in about an hour. Oh so sweet. No, really, there's
that intuition because you I just can't believe the timing,
you know. It's this has been like the hardest year
for many people, and I am in that boat for sure.
(39:22):
But spring is springing. Spring is springing, and you have
good friends around you. You have people who you can
be who you are and where you are and feeling
what you feel, and you know that people do care
about you and will listen or not or bear witness
(39:44):
to it, um, you know, or play music with you,
just to know that's that. Margaret, we did that last week.
She called me and I went over there and just
like we I just love one of my parents. He
is talking about music with someone who who I truly
(40:05):
respect their opinion and also like they love music so much,
and it's just such a joy. It's like we're eating
cake or just listening to songs and we're like psyche
and like this is why I love this, you know,
And and that's way better than about what you don't
have or what you want. Well, Margaret and I had that.
(40:27):
Thank you, by the way. And I'm not a musician,
and yet I love music and have listened to music.
Music has been the most important aspect of my sort
of creative life is music, even though I'm not a musician. Um.
Although I did play in Seawan Cassidy's first band, Yeah
(40:50):
I did. I played rhythm guitar, and I'm not buying it. Well,
I'm just letting you know. I did play rhythm on
Cities first band in seventh grade. I did have a
little Fender amp and you know a little um, but
my point is um. Margaret and I we started talking
(41:14):
about songs and how messaging and how time and place
changes how you look at something, and you know, the
sexual exploitation of women, and we started talking about We
started like it felt like we were writing music together,
(41:35):
even though I'm we're not writing music together, because I'm
also like, it's cheerleading. I think friendship is a lot
of cheerleading. It's very much what you said at the
beginning of our conversation was you guys sitting at her
feet or them sitting at your feet as you performed,
and you look down there they are, and they're cheering
(41:58):
their friend. Artists collaborating, you know. Person. Yeah, and we
had that. Margaret and I started jamming about songs that
were written. The Beatles song, well, she was just seventeen,
you know what I mean. The way she looked was
(42:19):
way beyond compare. You know what I mean, This is
a seventeen year old girl, and in the time, nobody
thought twice about it anymore than my milkshake brings all
the boys to the yard. Really, um, okay, But what
was interesting was then from Margaret to sing them with
(42:41):
that from a point of view that was very different.
What was the other one, Margaret, You're much too younger,
Oh right, And so I have goose bumps. I have
goose bumps on both my arms because it was only sixty.
There's a lot of songs that are like that. I've
(43:02):
just you know, it's like a it's kind of like
a what is it. It's it's almost like a little
spectacle that like the point of the song feels like
the spectacle of being in love within an under underage girl,
which was very prominent in the music business of course. Yeah,
(43:23):
um Elvis, mm hmm, Jerry Lee Lewis, And I mean
I'm pulling those out of my ass, you know what
I mean. Like, I'm just like, it's not like I
have off the top of your head. Yeah, I would
ask you went in. See, that's why we're good collaboration,
I know, but that's how it felt. And see, it
(43:46):
was so interesting because we didn't know each other and
I was a sixty two year old woman. I've not
really looked through that lens of how young women were
objectified by music in a way. That is something to
bring up in a world today where we now bring
up all sorts of aspects of things, right, And I
(44:10):
just remember that moment, Margaret. I'll never forget that moment.
And of course, and you just sort of start singing
songs and you're I'm like, oh my god, really, but
it's just there. It felt to me like we were
writing songs even though we weren't. Yeah, yeah, I would
imagine it's the same creative sort of trigger that makes
(44:31):
you want to express your thoughts, you know, just music
is there to help help that. But I think that's
it's so interesting that to to as music as a
reflection of society at the time that we're in. You know,
they were being honest for that time, you know, and
and people haven't changed, but maybe they're less honest because
(44:56):
they know that they have to be politically correct. But um,
you know, it's it's interesting because when something is wrapped
in a happy such a happy feel and tempo, you
kind of forget what it's about. Yeah. Yeah, I remember
being that was like you know, oldies, like in the
minivan growing up as a kid, and I was belting
(45:17):
out those songs as like a sixteen year old. Yeah,
you know, like it's pretty meta in a lot of ways,
just to think about these were things that I loved
and I love those musicians, the performances, etcetera. And the
messages are terrible and it's didn't I mean our history, etcetera, America,
pop culture, etcetera. Is written with this obviously, but just
(45:41):
to start to contextualize it. And I remember that to
Jamie of just us kind of having this backlog of
fascination and um kind of attention to these really kind
of particular nuances about music and songs, um and how
dated and how sexist and bizarre they were. It was
(46:06):
a really interesting collaboration with you to really talk about
it and also just to know like I don't know
you really that well yet, and and all of a
sudden we're getting to the bottom of something really quick.
It was amazing. It was really amazing. Well before I
leave or lose, you both to the hustle. And by
the way, you're looking at a hustler. I you know,
(46:29):
when I was traveling around the world selling the Halloween movie,
and it was you know, it was planes, cars, like
it was like in out on in out on in
out on in out all around the world. I would like,
wherever we were, whatever we were doing, I was going
(46:49):
do do do do do do do do do? I
so love a good hustle because I'm a hard worker.
I loved to hospital and you know, this show is
an example. Like I was like, I've never done but
it's like, you know what it's we're in a lockdown.
(47:10):
I missed my friends. This song blows my mind. How
about I do a show called good Friend Boom done so?
But because it was born from a song, and of
course there's so many songs about friendship. And I will
tell you I was a girl away at boarding school
my senior year of high school. I was away at
(47:31):
a boarding school in Connecticut. Too long of a story
to explain why. And you know, I would listen to
Joni Mitchell's Blue and I would sob missing California because
I'm born and raised girl from California and there I
was in in it so and I think about Carol
King's You've Got a Friend and songs about friendship of
(47:54):
how what that does to you? And this show was
born from a song MHM that said there's something I
need I don't already have. I get it from a
good friend. I get something from from people, and so
I just wasn't going to ask you both if there
was a song besides good Friend that I know it's
(48:15):
putting you on the spot a tiny bed, and I've
already blown it by saying Carol King's You've got a friend?
But is there? I mean, it's just music is astonishing
to me, and the way it can communicate a feeling
in your soul, yeah, about someone? And is there anything
that pops into either one of your heads about that?
(48:36):
I know it's got a weird thing to ask, but no,
it's beautiful that it's one of my favorite sentiments because
it is so universal. You know, it doesn't have to
be passionate love which comes and goes, but it's just
it's that more settled, like the saviors that we have.
(48:56):
And um, I mean I'll just be quarantine and say
lean on me, Phil even don't even don't I mean
sometimes don't even. I could cry listening to It's just
(49:17):
so easy da um. But yeah, I mean that's my favorite.
I feel like I want to name off some Margaret
songs because I mean, young Love that's one of my
favorite songs ever. And I don't know if that's just
about I mean, I think I could be about friendship.
(49:40):
I feel I feel lucky do have been in quarantine
with Like obviously, quarantine has been very very hard. I
mean for so so many people, for so many different reasons. Um,
and I feel incredibly blessed to have been in quarantine
with someone I can call my best friend and that
(50:01):
that song captures that for me in writing that song
that you're talking about, Emily, Um, because it's totally like
you know, about my my love for my best friends.
That's just what it is. Yeah, a safe place that
we can fight in as we can cry and too.
(50:22):
And that was what what happened. We had to stay
in the house, we had to be able to you know,
exist in tight quarters. And I feel so blessed that
it was okay. You know, I think for a lot
of people that's a test. That's the trust me for me,
(50:44):
the musically, the things that come up for me for good,
you know, good friends. I can't think of a particular song,
but there's artists to me that I feel like when
I listened to them, I think of my friends and
that's for me. Joni mitchell Is was really that's all
my childhood and it's funny, Jamie, you're saying like, you're
a girl from California, so am I. And I think
(51:06):
that California was when I moved out to Boston and
I was in on the East Coast, and it was
cold and old and intense and intellectual and different than
I had experienced as a child, being you know, in
the trees and running through the fields and being a
super country girl. When I listened to California, I it's
(51:29):
similarly weep, weep and ball um. And then I would say,
listening to Aretha Franklin, I think just connects. It reminds
me what's important, and it connects me to my musician
friends in my heart and soul. I listened to Aretha, Um,
I think of my dearest often my dearest female friends
(51:54):
that are in the music industry, and I just I
feel like I'm gonna be okay, It's all gonna be
all right. So well, we're going to be all right
because we get through it together as friends. And I
could not be more delighted that this triumvirate of new
and old friends came together in this way today to
(52:18):
just you know, be with my listener and so with Julian.
So we didn't even know that we were gonna be
with Julian today, so it's so good anyway, I'm I'm
just grateful and feel very yummy. I'm going to go
play music really loud. Yes, I'm going to think about
(52:40):
everything that you guys have said today. It was a
beautiful conversation and thank you. Thank you for bringing us together,
teaching me a new word. Yes, well, stay tuned as
the kids say so for the listener, um, stay safe
out there, God bless you and thank you for listening
to the good Friend podcast UM with my guests Emily
(53:03):
King and Margaret Blasphemy by Everybody good. Good Friend is
produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production of my
Heart Radio. Our theme song good Friend is written, produced,
(53:28):
and performed by Emily King. Already Nugative from a good Friend,
Don't already from a good Friend. For more podcasts from
(53:48):
my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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