August 12, 2021 • 43 mins
Today Jamie speaks with her newest good friend, Michelle Yeoh. They discuss honoring lost friends, being your own friend, and how to deal with turmoil in friend groups.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's something I'll get if I'm a good friend. Hi everybody,
it's Jamie Lee Curtis and you're listening to the Good
Friend Podcast, presented to you by I Heart Radio. It's
a podcast about friendship. We talk about everything, We cry,
(00:24):
we laugh, we think about what it really means to
be a good friend. And I have conversations with some
of my best friends, some people I've never met, and
sort of everything in between. So I hope by the
end of it that you have a really good sense
(00:47):
of what friendship means to me and the people that
I consider friends. And I hope you can take those
same ideas into your own friendship groups, and I hope
you enjoy it. I don't know idea on lo im
a good friend. Guess what we're going to start rolling.
(01:07):
That's how easy this is. And by the way, we're
not on camera. It's just no, no, no. Can you imagine,
Uh if I was that person? Can you imagine if
I was that person? Was like surprise, UM, okay, here
I go watch this. Welcome to my listener. I like
to say that I have one listener because then I
(01:29):
feel like I'm not alone in the in the airspace. Um.
But I also try not to have so much hubris
that I think I have thousands. So to my listener,
I am so delighted, so delighted um to be talking
today to my newest good friend, Michelle Yo, who I'm
(01:55):
not even gonna describe who or what she is and
does apt We worked together recently and I did a
rap which when you say Michelle, I say yo, Michelle Yo.
Michelle Yo. Sorry, I know I can't help myself. Welcome
(02:15):
to the Good Friend Podcast, my friend, Thank you, my friend.
It's a real privilege. And Anna, well, of course I'm
going to ask you. You represent what is good about
friendship because you have such passion for your friends and family.
(02:36):
I think you have a bigger passion for your friends
and family than anybody I've spoken to. You're so fierce
and like delighted by them. It sounds like you're talking
about you. That's how I feel about you. You You
put yourself out there without any reservation and say it
(02:57):
for what it is. And that's why I loved you.
From the first text message you sent you yes and
you asked me to run away with you. Well, I
was so delighted we got to be in a movie
that we won't even discuss here because we don't know
when it's going to come out, and that way we
don't even And it's not this isn't about movies. It's
(03:17):
about how you connect with people. Um. You, since I
have met you, you have been around the world four
times and have worried of my life. Yes, And that's
what I want to start with, is the story of
your life. First of all, how do you maintain friendship
(03:38):
when you travel and work as much as you do.
I think when you have when you make a friend,
it's a mutual understanding connection, a bond that doesn't have
fixed rules that must do certain things in a certain way.
I think it's an understanding. It's a non judgmental is
(04:01):
just free love. And I have always been very, very
lucky to meet and become really good friends with people
like that. It's like with you, we don't talk all
the time, but we know, and we've not met for
so long, but the bond is like you know, there
(04:23):
is a true connection and if you call, I will
be there. And that's with all my friends since I've
known since school or um really dear friends and family
in Hong Kong and around the world, that they know that,
even though I don't see them all the time or
I'm not calling them and texting them and you know,
(04:44):
writing them mail all the time, anytime when we are
in the same area or if something. I think that's
when you know who are your friends, not when you're
having a great times, when there is need and there
is when you know that you're unhap p and they
know it too and they are there for you. So
I think that's for me has always been what my
(05:06):
friends are very very dear in that way. I'm very
a little bit emotional today because I just came off
watching a concert, a live concert in Hong Kong, and
it's remembering a dear friend actor singer who died April first,
(05:27):
almost like eighteen years ago. And in the same year
I lost one of my best friends, Anita MOOI. So
watching the whole event taking place and then showing photos
of movies that they did together, and it was heartbreaking,
very knot sound, but it's such a good feeling as well,
(05:47):
of course, because friendship doesn't die. Yeah, that is true.
I think that is the most precious thing that we had,
that moment that we had that good times to get ever,
and they will just stay with you forever. You now
have me thinking about so many people. I'm sorry, I
(06:08):
was gonna call you and say maybe we should do
this some of the time. I'm sorry, but just thinking
about so many friends of mine, right, And I missed
them so much, and I wish they could be a
part of my life today and know my family and
know how much they meant to me. It's so it's
(06:31):
so powerful what you just said. But they are they
will always be in your heart. I mean, I every
time I get I remember them my reminisce and you know,
we start crying and laughing and but celebrating as well
because we had those moments together and they will always
stay with us and they will always be precious. So
(06:54):
I'm very thankful that, you know, even though they didn't
continue the journey for a much longer period of time,
what we had will always be very special. Right. Yeah. Wow,
Friendship never dies, it just it's it goes on. Yeah.
(07:15):
And and you know, I think in the conception of
this podcast, because it was conceived at the beginning of
COVID and the separations that we were starting to feel,
I don't think I think this is the first time
in all of the interviews that I've done where the
idea of lost friends, um has come up in such
(07:38):
a real way, and I want to honor them in
a way, in a weird way from what you just
came from. Is now going to open a whole new
aspect of thinking about people who are gone, And yet
I am so much better because of knowing them, right
(08:03):
we can we should never forget them, you know, because
there will always be a part of who we are
and how we have evolved as a person. So well,
thank you for bringing them into the podcast, because they
have as much a voice as the you know people
(08:24):
that I'm here now, right, Um, where did you grow
up in Malaysia? So? I was born in Epo, small
mining city in Malaysia, and uh, it's a very multiracial society.
I was there until I was sixteen and then I
went on to England to study. So I grew up
(08:46):
in the tropical climates of Malaysia and as a child.
You know, we make friendship bonds. I mean obviously most people.
When you say good friend, you start thinking about friends
from your past. And here's an example where you and
I are new friends. We only met a couple of
(09:06):
years ago, right, and only had a creative nugget together
and then and then gone, and yet the feelings remained
so so powerful. Um, but when you were young, did
you did you stay in the same place? Did you
have Do you still have childhood friends? I still have
(09:29):
a few, but most of my school friends, people that
I grew up with, they are scattered all over the world.
There in Australia and you know, many many different places.
So there's a handful where we do stay in touch.
And when I do go back to EPO, sometimes we
have an alumni and if I'm there at the right time,
(09:49):
I get to see them and they are very very sweet.
They you know, they write to me and say, oh,
we're having this get together. Are you in tow? A
lot of the times I'm not, but I'm grateful that
they still remember and they will still, you know, put
me in the loop to say, come join us. How
old were you when you started performing? Oh in Hong Kong?
(10:13):
I w I was? I think I was like twenty three.
I started in eighty four five in Hong Kong. So
that's why Hong Kong has a really special place in
my heart. That place is like a second home to
me because I spent so many great, great years and
I love Hong Kong and the friendships. I guess because
(10:34):
I'm trying to just get a sense of how long
you were in a place before you started becoming a
world traveler, Like, did did you get to root? Did
you get to root in Hong Kong? I think I did.
I would say if that was one place that I
got to root. In fact, I stayed in Hong Kong,
probably more than I did in Malaysia, but I'm Malaysian national. Um.
(10:59):
I stayed in Hong Kong. I got married in Hong Kong, um,
and I started my career in Hong Kong. So a
lot of the great things of my life happened in
Hong Kong. My first god daughter is in Hong Kong.
Three of my four my god children are in Hong Kong.
So my great friends in Hong Kong. I like my
(11:20):
brothers and sisters. We are like family. We don't see
each other as being with siblings. So I have an
extended family in Hong Kong, which is really really special. Something.
I'm a good friend. We'll be right back with more
good friend after this quick break. So stick around friend.
(11:47):
I don't know you and I share not a god child,
but we both have the great honor of being named
godmother too our friends children. And that has been since
(12:10):
my first adult friend when I was nineteen and she
was twenty one. UM, when she had her first child,
she named me the godmother, and then throughout my life
I have been given the gate honor. And I agree
(12:30):
with you, it is an honor. It is a real
privilege that somebody would trust you with the child. Yes,
you take great, great pride in your godchildren, and I
watch you. I do, I do. I am so proud
of them. And you know d D. She is such
a savvy businesswoman. Um, she's into eco friendly garments and
(12:55):
all that. So you know, I watched her with great
I've known since she was like three. So and now
to see how you know a full bloom, gorgeous woman.
It's you take pride. You're right. I am so proud
when I see them. And as for I have six
god children, so I'm very, very blessed. I have great
friends who entrust them to me. But I always think,
(13:17):
you know, they have such a full life. I'm only
there when they need someone, so they know they can
call me yeah. Yeah, but I have great friends who
then gave you this privilege, privilege, And you know, I
don't think people just name just anybody like. I think
(13:38):
it talks to the level of your depth of friendship
with your friends who have named you the godmother. I
think it's a it's a designation of a very special
teer of friendship. How do you I have been on
the receiving end of your friendship. UM, I see you
(14:00):
when you work. I have had the great fun of
watching you be the head person on the work. And
for my listener, I think I have a listener. Um,
I'd like to think that my listener doesn't know that
much about the film industry that when you get your
(14:23):
daily um assignment of the work that's going to be
made that day, and everyone knows what time they have
to show up at work and what work you're going
to do from the movie. Uh, there are numbers assigned
to people's names. And there's a phrase that we use,
(14:45):
which is being number one on the call sheet mean
that you are the star of the work that it is.
It is pivoting off of you and the work we
did together. You were and are the matriarch of the piece.
It is your. I think that the essence of you
(15:07):
that is then sort of sprinkled around people is such
an open like you're such a fun person to work with. Um,
So I'm curious about you sprinkling your fairy dust in
your work and and the level of expansion of your
(15:31):
level of friendship in your work with people. And I
mean you. I mean I don't need to you know,
google you and to be able to talk about the
work you've done. It's been all over the world, in
many languages and many cultures, in many genres, and there
is an essence of you. I don't care if you're
(15:54):
playing some badass, you know, mean tight matriarch or you know,
crazy weirdo whatever, a weirdo I thought you said widow.
I was thinking a crazy widow. It's kind of a yeah.
But is that just your natural sense of your place
(16:19):
in the universe. I bet you He're that way with
every flight attendant that comes near you. Yes, yeah, you
sound like you're talking about yourself. That's exactly how what
I thought of you when you came on this. You
breathed in and you just exude this great warmth and
generosity of spirit and you just embraced everyone. And that
(16:41):
is how I hope people perceive of me as well,
because I think one of the main things is we
truly love what we do. We choose to be where
we are, we choose who we talk to. We are
very blessed and lucky because we come to a certain
stage in our lives where I think we don't take
(17:01):
any more bs because it's like, dude, I've heard it
before so many times. It's like water of the ducks back,
you know, It's like they don't even bother to go
down that track because it's not gonna get you where anywhere.
If you're honest and sincere with me, you will get
it double e back from me. So that's all I
ask for people. I will always put my heart out
(17:22):
there in hope that I always believe that's good in people.
And that's how I want the environment that I'm working
in to be like, because there's already so much messed
up things out there in the world. If I can
at least contribute towards my own working environment, that is
what we need to do. Because when we are happy,
(17:43):
I believe we transmit that happiness because we can come
into the set, be like piste off and dark and gloomy,
and within minutes or seconds it will just spread, like
everybody will go Okay. Number one is not in a
good mood, you know, Jamie is not talking to anybody's
(18:03):
just stay clear of that, you know. I think it
is up to us to step up as well. If
you want good vibes coming to you, I think we
we have to be the first one to give it out.
And with me, with my family, with my friends, I hope,
I really sincerely hope that's what I do all the time.
He's like, life is so under predictable. I've always knew
(18:26):
that for a very long time. Things that I guarantee.
We are born and we will die, we will age,
and we will die, and we don't know when that's
going to happen. So I learned to stop saving for
a rainy day, you know, saving the my most best
dressed or something for the next best No, because if
I want flowers, you know, I would send those flowers
(18:49):
to myself because I believe I deserve them, and that's
if that's what I want, that's gonna make me happy
for the day. And I think every day we deserve
to find something that makes us happy, and then we
can pay forward. We will make somebody else happy and
be happy that we did that. So life is very simple.
I try to keep it as simple as possible and
(19:11):
live it to the fullest as well. Well. Friendship is
simple from our earliest childhoods of reaching our hand out
to somebody else and saying do you want to be
my friend? And then holding their hand and going over
(19:31):
to a little area that's just between the two of
you and making a fort and playing dolls. You know,
whatever the interchange is, it starts with that openness, of gesture,
of generosity of spirit. I think we get beaten by
adolescence and you know, the machinations of adolescence and the
(19:58):
hierarchy a friendship where all of a sudden people pair
off in ways you feel outside of a group. I
just don't think as young children there is that. I
think we're open and we shut down with life is hard.
But I agree with you one hundred percent about how
(20:20):
you approach your work, your day, the privilege of it
and the paying it forward. That we're the luckiest people
on earth to be able to creative life, to be
able to make a living in a creative industry. Uh
to be women over forty Uh is working in an
industry which is agist and you know, misogynistic. And here
(20:44):
we are. We met, even though we play adversaries in
the movie. But what fun? Oh my god, you taught
me so it was fun. It was fun again for
my listener. Michelle and I did a movie. I'll even
say the name of it. It's called Everything Everywhere, All
at Once, and it's a multiverse martial arts family drama
(21:10):
y um. And I couldn't explain it to you any
more than that. But Michelle and I play adversaries who
then become advocates in a very funny and weird my god.
So I won't say anything. I won't say anymore except
that when it is being released, I will obviously stories
(21:37):
to tell. We will have a few stories to tell. Um.
In your travels and making friends with people, obviously, since
I've known you, you have been to Australia, You've been
to I've been to Australia, and then I went back
to Malaysia, and then you were in Paris. Since in
(21:57):
Paris also went to Switzerland, I went to Finland, I
went to Qatar Um then I went back to Malaysia
and now I'm here in Belfast and are you there
for a period of time? Yes, because of the quarantine
and the it's hard. It's hard to make a movie
at this time. I think we all really have to
be very collaborative. Um, I have, it's not I'm doing
(22:21):
this movie with for Paul Fie, I adore wonderful. It
will be so funny and so fun It's called the
School of Good and Evil And yeah, I know exactly right, um,
and you know what it was. It's because of him.
He's it's just a cameo. I have maybe six days,
(22:42):
seven days shoot, but over a period of five weeks.
Normally I would have gone back to Paris, right, But
you can't, because I can. But I will come back
and be quarantined. But I think, you know, for the
well being of everyone, I should not shouldn't be so
selfish and just stay here and it will be more
isolated and be contained in the bubble. And you know what,
(23:05):
when I finished Quarantine, when I get out there, Laurie
will be Poulpeeks wife, Laurie will be here. There will
be so many amazing people to hang out with, so
on set and I'm looking forward to that. I also
have noticed because to my listener, I follow, um Michelle
yo In in the social media's. Um, what I also
(23:29):
love is your appreciation for nature. Yes, you're you're constantly outside.
You're constantly exploring nature. Uh, every city you're in, every
every place you can go for work, you hike, you walk,
you find the water. I have found that nature is
(23:52):
as good as a friend as people. Often nature can
be even a better friend sometimes. Um. And I've noticed
that about you without us knowing each other. Well, UM,
I've noticed that about you. Has that been your since
you were young? Have you had that affinity toward nature? Yes,
(24:14):
I would I would say yes because my dad was
a very out well he was he loved to see,
he was a very naughty boy. He was official. He
loved fishing, he loved being out in the ocean. So
ever since we were we were a little we would
go with him on the boats and you know, fishing villages.
And then also you know, he had an orchard, so
(24:37):
we were always amongst trees and walking. So nature for
me is a gift. It truly is God's gift for us.
And you remember we had that saying when we were
making the film together, that our feet must always be
planted firmly on the ground. That's where our that's where
we can grow our roots. And when we feel the
(24:59):
earth on the ground on that's when you're really truly
connected to who you are and the planet. That why
we're doing so much to protect this place is our planet.
So I've always and I mean when I'm walking, I'm
just not looking at the sky and looking for like
the little flower or the little bird or little things
(25:20):
that I could walk the same path and find something different.
And I think that for me is the beauty of
the world. And that's why I love traveling. I don't
have I don't I've lived out of the suitcase. I
must say for the last maybe eighteen years now, I
haven't stopped traveling. Um. But it it comes to a
point where you feel very lonely because you know, I
(25:43):
spend a lot of time on my own as well.
For example, now I'm in quarantine for the next ten days,
so I am basically on my own. And I think
what you must learn to do is to please enjoy
your own company, you have to start from within. And
when I go for these long walks, I talked to her,
but it sounds like a crazy woman, and say I
(26:05):
talked to myself. I think sometimes when we speak, like
with my best golf, with my best friends, what we
do is open a nice bottle of wine and we
say we didn't need a psychiatrists. We just need our
good friends who sit there with us, you know, one
on one or just a couple of really really good friends,
and you know, speak our hearts out because there's no judgment.
(26:28):
It's just honesty. It's just letting go, freeing ourselves. And
I think that's a lot of the times. Walking for
me helps me get that. And the other thing I
really get is from a really great friend of good friends,
you know, my sisters or my bros. We just sit
there and we talk to each other. So that for
me is like my friendship to nature and my friendship
(26:51):
to put a human being. But you also talked about
your friendship to yourself. Yeah, treeting yourself. You mentioned about
to my listener. Um. I happened to be able to
see Michelle at the beginning of our podcast, and she
had some beautiful flowers behind her, and I asked about
because I knew she had just traveled to a new city,
(27:13):
and she mentioned that they were sent from Jean her beau,
but you also said you could send them to yourself,
and you would order beautiful flowers for yourself. I think
somebody who spends as much time on their own as
you do by the nature of your job. Your job
(27:35):
means you travel to other places. I'm about to travel
for a couple of months and we're shooting, you know,
in another country, and I'm going to be alone a lot.
You know, I too, take very good care of myself.
And I think you brought it up that to be
(27:57):
a friend to yourself and treat yourself like a good
friend is as important as other people. And I think
we forget that. Yeah, we think that we have to
do for others rather than ourselves. And I just thought
we could explore that for a minute. Because because you
(28:18):
travel so much, I know you go out in nature,
as you just described that you find in nature friendship
and and discovery and all of the beautiful aspects I
actually do find by myself. You know why, because I
think it's very important. It's not about being selfish. I
(28:41):
think there's a big difference when you say you love yourself,
but it doesn't mean that when you love yourself, you
just have to do everything that you want and disregard
everybody else. I think what you have to do is
love who you are and when you because if you're
not a happy person, you're not going to be able
to be happy with anybody. You know. It's like you
(29:03):
know some people who are very aggressive. I think first
you have to search within yourself and find that inner peace,
because it's all about your inner peace first. And for me,
walking helps me to breathe. And a lot of the
times when we're angry, when we're frustrated, we hold our
breath and we keep holding it and and we implode,
(29:25):
and then one day it's just going to explode, and
I feel so sorry for whoever is around you at
that time. So what I'm trying to say is I
didn't come easily. It's come over a period of time.
It's come over, you know. Being a Buddhist and also
learning about other religions and listening to what they have
to say is at the end of the day, if
(29:46):
you don't have the inner peace, it's very hard to
be able to maintain a calm mind and an open
mindness to be able to relate to other people. And
if you look around and you see all the things
that's happening around you, you sometimes just have to take
a step back and go it's okay. I think this
(30:08):
COVID thing, this pandemic, has really made it forces to
take a step back and say, leave the baggages that
we don't need behind, because we have to step forward
to a new new era where you know, we have
to live differently. We have to be a different person.
(30:28):
We have to learn to take care of ourselves so
that we can take care of others and our planet.
Otherwise we will have no future. And I think we
can only do that together. But first we have to
start with it. And I think with all my good friends,
that's how we've always maintained that bond is because we've
always been very honest with each other. So we don't
(30:50):
have expectations where why haven't you called me for? You know?
It's it. They're they're fine. If I go back to
Hong Kong suddenly and I pick up the phone and
I go, hey girl, those guys, I'm I'm back, and
someone will say, okay, I'm throwing you a dinner battle.
We'll all just like come together. So which for me
is such a blessing that you have friends. I don't
(31:13):
have expectations of them where they have to do things
to be my friend. And I think it works the
other way around because they know they have my love
and respect all the time. If there's something don't already,
I know I'll get. If I'm a good friend, We'll
be right back with more good friend after this quick break.
(31:45):
How do you handle conflict? What kind of conflict like
friend conflict, conflict between friends? Because I agree with you,
by the way, I'm sixty I'm gonna be. I don't
even know how old I am. I believe what year
is it? And we're in two thousand and one one,
(32:08):
so I'm sixty I'm sixty three in November. Oh wow,
you don't so I'm sixty three in November. And I'm
in that point where, like you said, that feeling of
expectation of people to be able to have somebody be like,
(32:28):
well you haven't called me. You know, I'm at the
point where I say, this is who I am. I
am so happy to be with you when we are together.
I am not able to carry you when I am
(32:49):
off doing something else. Right, you say it to them, right,
I try to. Yes, I've learned that I had with
some many of them understand. I have some great friends
who they're so thoughtful. Everywhere they go they come back
and they buy gifts and things like that. From the
word girl, I say, do not extract me to do this.
(33:11):
I don't even have time to do anything like that.
So I think it's a precedence. You you start, and
then once they get the hang of it, they're like, yeah,
she's like that. So either you accept the fact she's
like that, or you turn around and say, I guess
I'll have to find another friend. The ones who have
(33:31):
stayed throughout the years with me, no and understand she's
like that, and they've come to terms with it. But
I'm sure the people who love you understand that's who
you are. And if I want to continue this great
relationship and friendship and love that we have for each other,
(33:52):
this is how it has to be. Yes, I I think.
I think. I think that is a growing understanding. I do.
I do think there are people who get very possessive
um and there are some people who I refer to
as vampires who basically say you are my life force
(34:16):
and I need your life force to exist. And I
find that to be a big concern because I think
it shows some very displaced attachment and disordered friendship. And
at that point I usually kind of gently try to
(34:37):
take a step away, step back. When I was younger, younger, yeah,
I empowered them, you know, because you you want to
take care of your friend, and it's, um, it's a
bad relationship. It doesn't get better because it's like you said,
you don't call them vampires for nothing, right, And unfortunately,
(34:58):
the more you empower them, the more they become, you know,
attached to you, and they will keep they keep pushing
away everybody else so that they can possess you in
that way. So as now you learn to take a
step back and go, okay, not going there, because I
(35:20):
have a life that encompasses so many other things. If
you are going to behave like this, you can be
a friend, but you're not going to be a close friend.
I think this is there's some relationships or friendships that
has been like that. I think the biggest difficulty sometimes
I have is when they're a conflict between the friends.
(35:42):
You know, you come back and then you go, what
what do you mean this? And my my two they
the group has sort of dispersed into and then you
go no, and you know you have to accept it
as well, because this is uh development, this is how
they have evolved, and you are not the savior. You
(36:05):
cannot come in and say, let me fix the problem.
I'm gonna mend the pipes. It's not gonna happen. Right.
They're adults. They're not like little kids where you can say, okay,
give up back the toy and blah blah blah. Well,
just hug and kids and we can mend matters when
their children. When you are adults, full grown men and women,
you will have to resolve things. And if I cannot
(36:28):
see you collectively, if I have to split up to
see and spend time, I will do so because I
have to respect whatever is happening in their lives as
well as they respect mine. So that's I think for
me that sometimes it's the most difficult. It's interesting that
is the second thing that has never come up in
(36:50):
this in these many conversations, is how do you deal
with friends who are not the conflict with you, at
the conflict between them where you love both and you
don't choose right, you don't choose and you don't also
betray the other's confidence, and you become a you know,
(37:14):
I think integrity. Um. I call it being the vault.
You know, being a vault, being someone who when you
tell me something, it doesn't leave me. That is such
a long learned process because of course, when we're teenagers
(37:35):
and we tell secrets and then they get out and
we and we feel betrayed by the secret teller, that
that person becomes what we call a gossip or a tattler,
or that you can't trust them with information. I know,
Chris and I have an adult friend and I'll if
(37:57):
something's going on and I'll say something. He'll say, well,
don't mention it to so and so, because everyone will know.
And I think about that, and I think, wow, that's
a heavy truth to say about someone that you can't
trust them not to speak of something that you bring
(38:21):
to them in a trusting way. And so it's interesting
because I've I we haven't discussed or explored this idea
at all of that conflict, and you're right, it's as
uncomfortable and you're trying to honor both and trying to
(38:43):
you know, help both through it. I have found recently
in a couple of situations that I've said to someone,
you know, you're in conflict with this person, this person,
this person, and this person. What's the common denominator? Like,
(39:04):
you know that moment where you have to look in
the mirror. You're looking at the problem and the solution,
because the solution to the problem is your acknowledgement of
your constant conflict with everyone else. And then you also
have the ability and humility to be able to look
(39:24):
at it and go, oh, yeah, exactly, m right, Okay,
so I'm the problem, and then you can fix it
because if you actually look at it and say, okay,
it's something in me, there's plenty of ways to explore that.
So that's such an interesting point because of course, if
you're the person who leaves and goes off and does
(39:47):
your work as you do so well by the way,
when you come back and you you come into a
friend group and there's conflict, it's such an interesting thing
to navigate with good friends. I think we really just
learned not to take sides. You know. It's like if
you if you're if you're great friends with a couple
(40:10):
and that's problem in the marriage, It's like we always say.
We do not take sides, We do not throw fuel
on the fire. We just listen, and you know, hopefully
when they Sometimes when you say something out loud, you
can hear how ridiculous you are, or maybe that's not
such a big problem and why you're making such a
big deal out of it. But it's not for me
(40:31):
to tell you that. It's you have to hear yourself.
So I think sometimes for me with my friends, it's
about listening to each other. You know, when you say
it out, maybe you hear your own answer. You'll hear
what you're trying to. You know, what you're bitching about,
so maybe there is nothing too bitch about. We call
that a sounding board. I will be here to receive,
(40:54):
and you will hear. I will listen, but you will here,
but you will hear yourself. And in that sounding board
often you're right. The answer comes to you in your silence,
the receiver and just the bearing witness, and then often
(41:16):
they can work out something because we have a saying.
You know, like you drive yourself to a corner and
you don't know how to get out of the corner.
You're just bumping yourself left and right because you're stuck
in that corner. So what we do is we just
turn you around and change the point of view, and
now you have nothing but opportunity exactly. Yeah, right, yeah,
(41:40):
I think that's what That's what my friends and we
try and do for for each other. It's just be
there and turn us around when we're stuck in the corner.
It's like a good dancing partner. Keep you on your toes,
but keep turning you around. I love you, Michelle Yo.
Thank you for being such a good friend. I've missed
(42:01):
you too. I am so lucky to call you a
good friend. We the me and my listener on the
good Friend Podcast, we are lucky to have you be
a guest. And for my listener, you've been listening to
the good Friend Podcast. My guest today is Michelle Yo,
(42:21):
and I remind you all to stay safe and God
bless you all and stay tuned or come back or
however you listen. Thank you Michelle for being here. Good
(42:44):
Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production
of my Heart Radio. Our theme song good Friend is written, produced,
and performed by Emily King. Don't already I know I'll
(43:06):
get it from a good friend if there's something I
don't already I know I'll get it from a good friend.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
There's something I'll get if I'm a good friend. Hi everybody,
it's Jamie Lee Curtis and you're listening to the Good
Friend Podcast, presented to you by I Heart Radio. It's
a podcast about friendship. We talk about everything, We cry,
(00:24):
we laugh, we think about what it really means to
be a good friend. And I have conversations with some
of my best friends, some people I've never met, and
sort of everything in between. So I hope by the
end of it that you have a really good sense
(00:47):
of what friendship means to me and the people that
I consider friends. And I hope you can take those
same ideas into your own friendship groups, and I hope
you enjoy it. I don't know idea on lo im
a good friend. Guess what we're going to start rolling.
(01:07):
That's how easy this is. And by the way, we're
not on camera. It's just no, no, no. Can you imagine,
Uh if I was that person? Can you imagine if
I was that person? Was like surprise, UM, okay, here
I go watch this. Welcome to my listener. I like
to say that I have one listener because then I
(01:29):
feel like I'm not alone in the in the airspace. Um.
But I also try not to have so much hubris
that I think I have thousands. So to my listener,
I am so delighted, so delighted um to be talking
today to my newest good friend, Michelle Yo, who I'm
(01:55):
not even gonna describe who or what she is and
does apt We worked together recently and I did a
rap which when you say Michelle, I say yo, Michelle Yo.
Michelle Yo. Sorry, I know I can't help myself. Welcome
(02:15):
to the Good Friend Podcast, my friend, Thank you, my friend.
It's a real privilege. And Anna, well, of course I'm
going to ask you. You represent what is good about
friendship because you have such passion for your friends and family.
(02:36):
I think you have a bigger passion for your friends
and family than anybody I've spoken to. You're so fierce
and like delighted by them. It sounds like you're talking
about you. That's how I feel about you. You You
put yourself out there without any reservation and say it
(02:57):
for what it is. And that's why I loved you.
From the first text message you sent you yes and
you asked me to run away with you. Well, I
was so delighted we got to be in a movie
that we won't even discuss here because we don't know
when it's going to come out, and that way we
don't even And it's not this isn't about movies. It's
(03:17):
about how you connect with people. Um. You, since I
have met you, you have been around the world four
times and have worried of my life. Yes, And that's
what I want to start with, is the story of
your life. First of all, how do you maintain friendship
(03:38):
when you travel and work as much as you do.
I think when you have when you make a friend,
it's a mutual understanding connection, a bond that doesn't have
fixed rules that must do certain things in a certain way.
I think it's an understanding. It's a non judgmental is
(04:01):
just free love. And I have always been very, very
lucky to meet and become really good friends with people
like that. It's like with you, we don't talk all
the time, but we know, and we've not met for
so long, but the bond is like you know, there
(04:23):
is a true connection and if you call, I will
be there. And that's with all my friends since I've
known since school or um really dear friends and family
in Hong Kong and around the world, that they know that,
even though I don't see them all the time or
I'm not calling them and texting them and you know,
(04:44):
writing them mail all the time, anytime when we are
in the same area or if something. I think that's
when you know who are your friends, not when you're
having a great times, when there is need and there
is when you know that you're unhap p and they
know it too and they are there for you. So
I think that's for me has always been what my
(05:06):
friends are very very dear in that way. I'm very
a little bit emotional today because I just came off
watching a concert, a live concert in Hong Kong, and
it's remembering a dear friend actor singer who died April first,
(05:27):
almost like eighteen years ago. And in the same year
I lost one of my best friends, Anita MOOI. So
watching the whole event taking place and then showing photos
of movies that they did together, and it was heartbreaking,
very knot sound, but it's such a good feeling as well,
(05:47):
of course, because friendship doesn't die. Yeah, that is true.
I think that is the most precious thing that we had,
that moment that we had that good times to get ever,
and they will just stay with you forever. You now
have me thinking about so many people. I'm sorry, I
(06:08):
was gonna call you and say maybe we should do
this some of the time. I'm sorry, but just thinking
about so many friends of mine, right, And I missed
them so much, and I wish they could be a
part of my life today and know my family and
know how much they meant to me. It's so it's
(06:31):
so powerful what you just said. But they are they
will always be in your heart. I mean, I every
time I get I remember them my reminisce and you know,
we start crying and laughing and but celebrating as well
because we had those moments together and they will always
stay with us and they will always be precious. So
(06:54):
I'm very thankful that, you know, even though they didn't
continue the journey for a much longer period of time,
what we had will always be very special. Right. Yeah. Wow,
Friendship never dies, it just it's it goes on. Yeah.
(07:15):
And and you know, I think in the conception of
this podcast, because it was conceived at the beginning of
COVID and the separations that we were starting to feel,
I don't think I think this is the first time
in all of the interviews that I've done where the
idea of lost friends, um has come up in such
(07:38):
a real way, and I want to honor them in
a way, in a weird way from what you just
came from. Is now going to open a whole new
aspect of thinking about people who are gone, And yet
I am so much better because of knowing them, right
(08:03):
we can we should never forget them, you know, because
there will always be a part of who we are
and how we have evolved as a person. So well,
thank you for bringing them into the podcast, because they
have as much a voice as the you know people
(08:24):
that I'm here now, right, Um, where did you grow
up in Malaysia? So? I was born in Epo, small
mining city in Malaysia, and uh, it's a very multiracial society.
I was there until I was sixteen and then I
went on to England to study. So I grew up
(08:46):
in the tropical climates of Malaysia and as a child.
You know, we make friendship bonds. I mean obviously most people.
When you say good friend, you start thinking about friends
from your past. And here's an example where you and
I are new friends. We only met a couple of
(09:06):
years ago, right, and only had a creative nugget together
and then and then gone, and yet the feelings remained
so so powerful. Um, but when you were young, did
you did you stay in the same place? Did you
have Do you still have childhood friends? I still have
(09:29):
a few, but most of my school friends, people that
I grew up with, they are scattered all over the world.
There in Australia and you know, many many different places.
So there's a handful where we do stay in touch.
And when I do go back to EPO, sometimes we
have an alumni and if I'm there at the right time,
(09:49):
I get to see them and they are very very sweet.
They you know, they write to me and say, oh,
we're having this get together. Are you in tow? A
lot of the times I'm not, but I'm grateful that
they still remember and they will still, you know, put
me in the loop to say, come join us. How
old were you when you started performing? Oh in Hong Kong?
(10:13):
I w I was? I think I was like twenty three.
I started in eighty four five in Hong Kong. So
that's why Hong Kong has a really special place in
my heart. That place is like a second home to
me because I spent so many great, great years and
I love Hong Kong and the friendships. I guess because
(10:34):
I'm trying to just get a sense of how long
you were in a place before you started becoming a
world traveler, Like, did did you get to root? Did
you get to root in Hong Kong? I think I did.
I would say if that was one place that I
got to root. In fact, I stayed in Hong Kong,
probably more than I did in Malaysia, but I'm Malaysian national. Um.
(10:59):
I stayed in Hong Kong. I got married in Hong Kong, um,
and I started my career in Hong Kong. So a
lot of the great things of my life happened in
Hong Kong. My first god daughter is in Hong Kong.
Three of my four my god children are in Hong Kong.
So my great friends in Hong Kong. I like my
(11:20):
brothers and sisters. We are like family. We don't see
each other as being with siblings. So I have an
extended family in Hong Kong, which is really really special. Something.
I'm a good friend. We'll be right back with more
good friend after this quick break. So stick around friend.
(11:47):
I don't know you and I share not a god child,
but we both have the great honor of being named
godmother too our friends children. And that has been since
(12:10):
my first adult friend when I was nineteen and she
was twenty one. UM, when she had her first child,
she named me the godmother, and then throughout my life
I have been given the gate honor. And I agree
(12:30):
with you, it is an honor. It is a real
privilege that somebody would trust you with the child. Yes,
you take great, great pride in your godchildren, and I
watch you. I do, I do. I am so proud
of them. And you know d D. She is such
a savvy businesswoman. Um, she's into eco friendly garments and
(12:55):
all that. So you know, I watched her with great
I've known since she was like three. So and now
to see how you know a full bloom, gorgeous woman.
It's you take pride. You're right. I am so proud
when I see them. And as for I have six
god children, so I'm very, very blessed. I have great
friends who entrust them to me. But I always think,
(13:17):
you know, they have such a full life. I'm only
there when they need someone, so they know they can
call me yeah. Yeah, but I have great friends who
then gave you this privilege, privilege, And you know, I
don't think people just name just anybody like. I think
(13:38):
it talks to the level of your depth of friendship
with your friends who have named you the godmother. I
think it's a it's a designation of a very special
teer of friendship. How do you I have been on
the receiving end of your friendship. UM, I see you
(14:00):
when you work. I have had the great fun of
watching you be the head person on the work. And
for my listener, I think I have a listener. Um,
I'd like to think that my listener doesn't know that
much about the film industry that when you get your
(14:23):
daily um assignment of the work that's going to be
made that day, and everyone knows what time they have
to show up at work and what work you're going
to do from the movie. Uh, there are numbers assigned
to people's names. And there's a phrase that we use,
(14:45):
which is being number one on the call sheet mean
that you are the star of the work that it is.
It is pivoting off of you and the work we
did together. You were and are the matriarch of the piece.
It is your. I think that the essence of you
(15:07):
that is then sort of sprinkled around people is such
an open like you're such a fun person to work with. Um,
So I'm curious about you sprinkling your fairy dust in
your work and and the level of expansion of your
(15:31):
level of friendship in your work with people. And I
mean you. I mean I don't need to you know,
google you and to be able to talk about the
work you've done. It's been all over the world, in
many languages and many cultures, in many genres, and there
is an essence of you. I don't care if you're
(15:54):
playing some badass, you know, mean tight matriarch or you know,
crazy weirdo whatever, a weirdo I thought you said widow.
I was thinking a crazy widow. It's kind of a yeah.
But is that just your natural sense of your place
(16:19):
in the universe. I bet you He're that way with
every flight attendant that comes near you. Yes, yeah, you
sound like you're talking about yourself. That's exactly how what
I thought of you when you came on this. You
breathed in and you just exude this great warmth and
generosity of spirit and you just embraced everyone. And that
(16:41):
is how I hope people perceive of me as well,
because I think one of the main things is we
truly love what we do. We choose to be where
we are, we choose who we talk to. We are
very blessed and lucky because we come to a certain
stage in our lives where I think we don't take
(17:01):
any more bs because it's like, dude, I've heard it
before so many times. It's like water of the ducks back,
you know, It's like they don't even bother to go
down that track because it's not gonna get you where anywhere.
If you're honest and sincere with me, you will get
it double e back from me. So that's all I
ask for people. I will always put my heart out
(17:22):
there in hope that I always believe that's good in people.
And that's how I want the environment that I'm working
in to be like, because there's already so much messed
up things out there in the world. If I can
at least contribute towards my own working environment, that is
what we need to do. Because when we are happy,
(17:43):
I believe we transmit that happiness because we can come
into the set, be like piste off and dark and gloomy,
and within minutes or seconds it will just spread, like
everybody will go Okay. Number one is not in a
good mood, you know, Jamie is not talking to anybody's
(18:03):
just stay clear of that, you know. I think it
is up to us to step up as well. If
you want good vibes coming to you, I think we
we have to be the first one to give it out.
And with me, with my family, with my friends, I hope,
I really sincerely hope that's what I do all the time.
He's like, life is so under predictable. I've always knew
(18:26):
that for a very long time. Things that I guarantee.
We are born and we will die, we will age,
and we will die, and we don't know when that's
going to happen. So I learned to stop saving for
a rainy day, you know, saving the my most best
dressed or something for the next best No, because if
I want flowers, you know, I would send those flowers
(18:49):
to myself because I believe I deserve them, and that's
if that's what I want, that's gonna make me happy
for the day. And I think every day we deserve
to find something that makes us happy, and then we
can pay forward. We will make somebody else happy and
be happy that we did that. So life is very simple.
I try to keep it as simple as possible and
(19:11):
live it to the fullest as well. Well. Friendship is
simple from our earliest childhoods of reaching our hand out
to somebody else and saying do you want to be
my friend? And then holding their hand and going over
(19:31):
to a little area that's just between the two of
you and making a fort and playing dolls. You know,
whatever the interchange is, it starts with that openness, of gesture,
of generosity of spirit. I think we get beaten by
adolescence and you know, the machinations of adolescence and the
(19:58):
hierarchy a friendship where all of a sudden people pair
off in ways you feel outside of a group. I
just don't think as young children there is that. I
think we're open and we shut down with life is hard.
But I agree with you one hundred percent about how
(20:20):
you approach your work, your day, the privilege of it
and the paying it forward. That we're the luckiest people
on earth to be able to creative life, to be
able to make a living in a creative industry. Uh
to be women over forty Uh is working in an
industry which is agist and you know, misogynistic. And here
(20:44):
we are. We met, even though we play adversaries in
the movie. But what fun? Oh my god, you taught
me so it was fun. It was fun again for
my listener. Michelle and I did a movie. I'll even
say the name of it. It's called Everything Everywhere, All
at Once, and it's a multiverse martial arts family drama
(21:10):
y um. And I couldn't explain it to you any
more than that. But Michelle and I play adversaries who
then become advocates in a very funny and weird my god.
So I won't say anything. I won't say anymore except
that when it is being released, I will obviously stories
(21:37):
to tell. We will have a few stories to tell. Um.
In your travels and making friends with people, obviously, since
I've known you, you have been to Australia, You've been
to I've been to Australia, and then I went back
to Malaysia, and then you were in Paris. Since in
(21:57):
Paris also went to Switzerland, I went to Finland, I
went to Qatar Um then I went back to Malaysia
and now I'm here in Belfast and are you there
for a period of time? Yes, because of the quarantine
and the it's hard. It's hard to make a movie
at this time. I think we all really have to
be very collaborative. Um, I have, it's not I'm doing
(22:21):
this movie with for Paul Fie, I adore wonderful. It
will be so funny and so fun It's called the
School of Good and Evil And yeah, I know exactly right, um,
and you know what it was. It's because of him.
He's it's just a cameo. I have maybe six days,
(22:42):
seven days shoot, but over a period of five weeks.
Normally I would have gone back to Paris, right, But
you can't, because I can. But I will come back
and be quarantined. But I think, you know, for the
well being of everyone, I should not shouldn't be so
selfish and just stay here and it will be more
isolated and be contained in the bubble. And you know what,
(23:05):
when I finished Quarantine, when I get out there, Laurie
will be Poulpeeks wife, Laurie will be here. There will
be so many amazing people to hang out with, so
on set and I'm looking forward to that. I also
have noticed because to my listener, I follow, um Michelle
yo In in the social media's. Um, what I also
(23:29):
love is your appreciation for nature. Yes, you're you're constantly outside.
You're constantly exploring nature. Uh, every city you're in, every
every place you can go for work, you hike, you walk,
you find the water. I have found that nature is
(23:52):
as good as a friend as people. Often nature can
be even a better friend sometimes. Um. And I've noticed
that about you without us knowing each other. Well, UM,
I've noticed that about you. Has that been your since
you were young? Have you had that affinity toward nature? Yes,
(24:14):
I would I would say yes because my dad was
a very out well he was he loved to see,
he was a very naughty boy. He was official. He
loved fishing, he loved being out in the ocean. So
ever since we were we were a little we would
go with him on the boats and you know, fishing villages.
And then also you know, he had an orchard, so
(24:37):
we were always amongst trees and walking. So nature for
me is a gift. It truly is God's gift for us.
And you remember we had that saying when we were
making the film together, that our feet must always be
planted firmly on the ground. That's where our that's where
we can grow our roots. And when we feel the
(24:59):
earth on the ground on that's when you're really truly
connected to who you are and the planet. That why
we're doing so much to protect this place is our planet.
So I've always and I mean when I'm walking, I'm
just not looking at the sky and looking for like
the little flower or the little bird or little things
(25:20):
that I could walk the same path and find something different.
And I think that for me is the beauty of
the world. And that's why I love traveling. I don't
have I don't I've lived out of the suitcase. I
must say for the last maybe eighteen years now, I
haven't stopped traveling. Um. But it it comes to a
point where you feel very lonely because you know, I
(25:43):
spend a lot of time on my own as well.
For example, now I'm in quarantine for the next ten days,
so I am basically on my own. And I think
what you must learn to do is to please enjoy
your own company, you have to start from within. And
when I go for these long walks, I talked to her,
but it sounds like a crazy woman, and say I
(26:05):
talked to myself. I think sometimes when we speak, like
with my best golf, with my best friends, what we
do is open a nice bottle of wine and we
say we didn't need a psychiatrists. We just need our
good friends who sit there with us, you know, one
on one or just a couple of really really good friends,
and you know, speak our hearts out because there's no judgment.
(26:28):
It's just honesty. It's just letting go, freeing ourselves. And
I think that's a lot of the times. Walking for
me helps me get that. And the other thing I
really get is from a really great friend of good friends,
you know, my sisters or my bros. We just sit
there and we talk to each other. So that for
me is like my friendship to nature and my friendship
(26:51):
to put a human being. But you also talked about
your friendship to yourself. Yeah, treeting yourself. You mentioned about
to my listener. Um. I happened to be able to
see Michelle at the beginning of our podcast, and she
had some beautiful flowers behind her, and I asked about
because I knew she had just traveled to a new city,
(27:13):
and she mentioned that they were sent from Jean her beau,
but you also said you could send them to yourself,
and you would order beautiful flowers for yourself. I think
somebody who spends as much time on their own as
you do by the nature of your job. Your job
(27:35):
means you travel to other places. I'm about to travel
for a couple of months and we're shooting, you know,
in another country, and I'm going to be alone a lot.
You know, I too, take very good care of myself.
And I think you brought it up that to be
(27:57):
a friend to yourself and treat yourself like a good
friend is as important as other people. And I think
we forget that. Yeah, we think that we have to
do for others rather than ourselves. And I just thought
we could explore that for a minute. Because because you
(28:18):
travel so much, I know you go out in nature,
as you just described that you find in nature friendship
and and discovery and all of the beautiful aspects I
actually do find by myself. You know why, because I
think it's very important. It's not about being selfish. I
(28:41):
think there's a big difference when you say you love yourself,
but it doesn't mean that when you love yourself, you
just have to do everything that you want and disregard
everybody else. I think what you have to do is
love who you are and when you because if you're
not a happy person, you're not going to be able
to be happy with anybody. You know. It's like you
(29:03):
know some people who are very aggressive. I think first
you have to search within yourself and find that inner peace,
because it's all about your inner peace first. And for me,
walking helps me to breathe. And a lot of the
times when we're angry, when we're frustrated, we hold our
breath and we keep holding it and and we implode,
(29:25):
and then one day it's just going to explode, and
I feel so sorry for whoever is around you at
that time. So what I'm trying to say is I
didn't come easily. It's come over a period of time.
It's come over, you know. Being a Buddhist and also
learning about other religions and listening to what they have
to say is at the end of the day, if
(29:46):
you don't have the inner peace, it's very hard to
be able to maintain a calm mind and an open
mindness to be able to relate to other people. And
if you look around and you see all the things
that's happening around you, you sometimes just have to take
a step back and go it's okay. I think this
(30:08):
COVID thing, this pandemic, has really made it forces to
take a step back and say, leave the baggages that
we don't need behind, because we have to step forward
to a new new era where you know, we have
to live differently. We have to be a different person.
(30:28):
We have to learn to take care of ourselves so
that we can take care of others and our planet.
Otherwise we will have no future. And I think we
can only do that together. But first we have to
start with it. And I think with all my good friends,
that's how we've always maintained that bond is because we've
always been very honest with each other. So we don't
(30:50):
have expectations where why haven't you called me for? You know?
It's it. They're they're fine. If I go back to
Hong Kong suddenly and I pick up the phone and
I go, hey girl, those guys, I'm I'm back, and
someone will say, okay, I'm throwing you a dinner battle.
We'll all just like come together. So which for me
is such a blessing that you have friends. I don't
(31:13):
have expectations of them where they have to do things
to be my friend. And I think it works the
other way around because they know they have my love
and respect all the time. If there's something don't already,
I know I'll get. If I'm a good friend, We'll
be right back with more good friend after this quick break.
(31:45):
How do you handle conflict? What kind of conflict like
friend conflict, conflict between friends? Because I agree with you,
by the way, I'm sixty I'm gonna be. I don't
even know how old I am. I believe what year
is it? And we're in two thousand and one one,
(32:08):
so I'm sixty I'm sixty three in November. Oh wow,
you don't so I'm sixty three in November. And I'm
in that point where, like you said, that feeling of
expectation of people to be able to have somebody be like,
(32:28):
well you haven't called me. You know, I'm at the
point where I say, this is who I am. I
am so happy to be with you when we are together.
I am not able to carry you when I am
(32:49):
off doing something else. Right, you say it to them, right,
I try to. Yes, I've learned that I had with
some many of them understand. I have some great friends
who they're so thoughtful. Everywhere they go they come back
and they buy gifts and things like that. From the
word girl, I say, do not extract me to do this.
(33:11):
I don't even have time to do anything like that.
So I think it's a precedence. You you start, and
then once they get the hang of it, they're like, yeah,
she's like that. So either you accept the fact she's
like that, or you turn around and say, I guess
I'll have to find another friend. The ones who have
(33:31):
stayed throughout the years with me, no and understand she's
like that, and they've come to terms with it. But
I'm sure the people who love you understand that's who
you are. And if I want to continue this great
relationship and friendship and love that we have for each other,
(33:52):
this is how it has to be. Yes, I I think.
I think. I think that is a growing understanding. I do.
I do think there are people who get very possessive
um and there are some people who I refer to
as vampires who basically say you are my life force
(34:16):
and I need your life force to exist. And I
find that to be a big concern because I think
it shows some very displaced attachment and disordered friendship. And
at that point I usually kind of gently try to
(34:37):
take a step away, step back. When I was younger, younger, yeah,
I empowered them, you know, because you you want to
take care of your friend, and it's, um, it's a
bad relationship. It doesn't get better because it's like you said,
you don't call them vampires for nothing, right, And unfortunately,
(34:58):
the more you empower them, the more they become, you know,
attached to you, and they will keep they keep pushing
away everybody else so that they can possess you in
that way. So as now you learn to take a
step back and go, okay, not going there, because I
(35:20):
have a life that encompasses so many other things. If
you are going to behave like this, you can be
a friend, but you're not going to be a close friend.
I think this is there's some relationships or friendships that
has been like that. I think the biggest difficulty sometimes
I have is when they're a conflict between the friends.
(35:42):
You know, you come back and then you go, what
what do you mean this? And my my two they
the group has sort of dispersed into and then you
go no, and you know you have to accept it
as well, because this is uh development, this is how
they have evolved, and you are not the savior. You
(36:05):
cannot come in and say, let me fix the problem.
I'm gonna mend the pipes. It's not gonna happen. Right.
They're adults. They're not like little kids where you can say, okay,
give up back the toy and blah blah blah. Well,
just hug and kids and we can mend matters when
their children. When you are adults, full grown men and women,
you will have to resolve things. And if I cannot
(36:28):
see you collectively, if I have to split up to
see and spend time, I will do so because I
have to respect whatever is happening in their lives as
well as they respect mine. So that's I think for
me that sometimes it's the most difficult. It's interesting that
is the second thing that has never come up in
(36:50):
this in these many conversations, is how do you deal
with friends who are not the conflict with you, at
the conflict between them where you love both and you
don't choose right, you don't choose and you don't also
betray the other's confidence, and you become a you know,
(37:14):
I think integrity. Um. I call it being the vault.
You know, being a vault, being someone who when you
tell me something, it doesn't leave me. That is such
a long learned process because of course, when we're teenagers
(37:35):
and we tell secrets and then they get out and
we and we feel betrayed by the secret teller, that
that person becomes what we call a gossip or a tattler,
or that you can't trust them with information. I know,
Chris and I have an adult friend and I'll if
(37:57):
something's going on and I'll say something. He'll say, well,
don't mention it to so and so, because everyone will know.
And I think about that, and I think, wow, that's
a heavy truth to say about someone that you can't
trust them not to speak of something that you bring
(38:21):
to them in a trusting way. And so it's interesting
because I've I we haven't discussed or explored this idea
at all of that conflict, and you're right, it's as
uncomfortable and you're trying to honor both and trying to
(38:43):
you know, help both through it. I have found recently
in a couple of situations that I've said to someone,
you know, you're in conflict with this person, this person,
this person, and this person. What's the common denominator? Like,
(39:04):
you know that moment where you have to look in
the mirror. You're looking at the problem and the solution,
because the solution to the problem is your acknowledgement of
your constant conflict with everyone else. And then you also
have the ability and humility to be able to look
(39:24):
at it and go, oh, yeah, exactly, m right, Okay,
so I'm the problem, and then you can fix it
because if you actually look at it and say, okay,
it's something in me, there's plenty of ways to explore that.
So that's such an interesting point because of course, if
you're the person who leaves and goes off and does
(39:47):
your work as you do so well by the way,
when you come back and you you come into a
friend group and there's conflict, it's such an interesting thing
to navigate with good friends. I think we really just
learned not to take sides. You know. It's like if
you if you're if you're great friends with a couple
(40:10):
and that's problem in the marriage, It's like we always say.
We do not take sides, We do not throw fuel
on the fire. We just listen, and you know, hopefully
when they Sometimes when you say something out loud, you
can hear how ridiculous you are, or maybe that's not
such a big problem and why you're making such a
big deal out of it. But it's not for me
(40:31):
to tell you that. It's you have to hear yourself.
So I think sometimes for me with my friends, it's
about listening to each other. You know, when you say
it out, maybe you hear your own answer. You'll hear
what you're trying to. You know, what you're bitching about,
so maybe there is nothing too bitch about. We call
that a sounding board. I will be here to receive,
(40:54):
and you will hear. I will listen, but you will here,
but you will hear yourself. And in that sounding board
often you're right. The answer comes to you in your silence,
the receiver and just the bearing witness, and then often
(41:16):
they can work out something because we have a saying.
You know, like you drive yourself to a corner and
you don't know how to get out of the corner.
You're just bumping yourself left and right because you're stuck
in that corner. So what we do is we just
turn you around and change the point of view, and
now you have nothing but opportunity exactly. Yeah, right, yeah,
(41:40):
I think that's what That's what my friends and we
try and do for for each other. It's just be
there and turn us around when we're stuck in the corner.
It's like a good dancing partner. Keep you on your toes,
but keep turning you around. I love you, Michelle Yo.
Thank you for being such a good friend. I've missed
(42:01):
you too. I am so lucky to call you a
good friend. We the me and my listener on the
good Friend Podcast, we are lucky to have you be
a guest. And for my listener, you've been listening to
the good Friend Podcast. My guest today is Michelle Yo,
(42:21):
and I remind you all to stay safe and God
bless you all and stay tuned or come back or
however you listen. Thank you Michelle for being here. Good
(42:44):
Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production
of my Heart Radio. Our theme song good Friend is written, produced,
and performed by Emily King. Don't already I know I'll
(43:06):
get it from a good friend if there's something I
don't already I know I'll get it from a good friend.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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