March 10, 2022 • 57 mins
Today, Jamie talks to Cassandra Grey and Samantha Ronson, who are friends and partners. Cassandra and Samantha talk about how they met, discuss having family members as friends and talk about knowing when it’s to let friends go. Plus Samantha gives Jamie headphone wearing tips!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If there's something native. I'm a good friend. Hi, everybody,
it's Jamie Lee Curtis. You're listening to the Good Friend Podcast,
presented to you by I Heart Radio. It's a podcast
(00:22):
about friendship, sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly,
the triumphs of friendship, the immense connection and emotion of friendship,
the laughter and occasionally the tears. We explore it all
in an unscripted, very free form way, with many, many
(00:42):
different guests, some I'm very close friends with, some I've
never met. And I hope that you will take away
from it something that connects you to your friends, and
that the ideas that we talk about can maybe be
taken into your own friendships. So sit back, or take
a walk, or however you listen. I hope you enjoy
(01:03):
it and stay tuned. A locative and a good friend.
This is starting very formally, that it will be the
first formal introduction that I've done. Normally, we're just laughing. Um, Hello,
everyone listening. I keep wanting to say watching, but it's
(01:24):
not watching, it's listening. It's called a podcast. I'm getting
I'm new at this. I'm sixty three, doesn't matter, you see,
I'm I'm an old dog learning new tricks. Welcome to
the podcast good Friend, where we discuss all things friendship, good, bad, ugly, complicated, easy.
A lot of people have talked about ease in friendships. UM,
(01:46):
my guests today officially or Samantha ronson and UM, I
was going to call you Violet Gray, which is just
me like, maybe I'll call you Violet from now on. Um,
Cassandra Gray. Who are my friends and who are friends themselves?
And special friends? This is that what we call it.
(02:07):
I'm I'm asking you. This is you're the guest. I'm
the you know, I'm the official asker and you're the
apparently official answer. Or yes, I would say that that
is correct. We are we are friends. I would even
say best friends and uh and also significant others and
(02:32):
emergency contacts. Yes, that's the commitment. Is the emergency contact?
Do you have it listed under ICE in your phone? No? Oh? Okay,
So just so the uninitiated listener knows, you know, if
you put your significant other emergency contact in your phone
(02:52):
under I C in case of emergency, Um, that's so,
And somebody opens your phone or can get to your
phone without having to know who to look for. They
look for ice. So my husband is under in my phone.
Is ice ice ice? Ice? Baby? Yeah? Sure? Too cold,
(03:13):
too cold. I know. I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. Um,
you know I'm wearing earphones. You're not. And Samantha Ronson,
besides being my friend, is also professionally, as the kids say,
a DJ, do you have like a DJ name? Yes,
DJ Samantha Ronson, that's your DJ names. Yeah, I never
(03:36):
came up with anything clever. I'm down with DJ Samantha Ronson.
But you are a DJ by trade, by profession, and
you wear earphone So I've seen you do this thing
which I'm about to now do. You guys can't see
it who are listening, But I'm about to flip them
down for a second, and then I'm also doing the
(03:58):
thing where you take one of them off the ear.
That's what I do. I'm new at this. This is
the sound of your phones. I've never worn your phones.
I always found it was a sort of affectation for
women my age walking with earphones on, and so it's
been very interesting for me to wear them. Um, I
do get into the sound of my own voice. You
(04:21):
wear them, well, thank you. It's not good with short hair.
I'm finding I'm just saying, I don't know. My bangs
don't know what to do, you know what I mean.
Because there's a thing it's like a headband, So my
bangs kind of get Well, here's what you have to do. Okay,
don't bring them on from the front like a headband,
bringing from them back. Okay. Um, as you said your
(04:43):
best friends, how did you meet as friends? Cassandra, We
met um in a town called New York City. Who
heard about it when I was living in l A
And I was there on business with my assistant who
(05:04):
is or is friendly with Samantha, and we she she
we were staying at the Bowery Hotel. And at the
time I was very happily married and very much in
love with my husband, and Um, yet I had a crush,
(05:25):
so much so that I told my husband about it
because I had never had a crush on a girl before,
so it was it was a memorable first encounter for
that reason. And then yeah, we didn't. We saw each
other a few more times in passing over the next
(05:47):
five years. And then I would say we saw each
other a few times in that in the next few months,
we just happened to run into each other and then
we I don't remember seeing you for these of yours. Yeah.
So and then, um, you hired me to DJ your
husband's birthday party. Two. It wasn't just passing. You gave
(06:07):
me a large amount of money. This is true. We
ran into each other a few times, and then I
hired her to d J Brad who was my husband,
my late husband, his birthday his I won't to think
it was maybe fifty five birthday. Surprise birthday. Oh, my
(06:30):
husband said he would leave me if I were through
a surprise party. We actually vowed in our marriage ceremony
that we vowed never to give each other a surprise party. Yeah,
I got. I actually was able to surprise him, and
it was pretty pretty wild because there was a lot
of people there right like maybe I don't know, I
(06:50):
didn't count, but yeah, and then it's pretty romantic. And
that we came back into each other's lives after my
husband passed away, and we were both in the same
place at the same time, fairly remarkably because either neither
(07:11):
of us wanted to be in this place, which was
um a Make a Wish Foundation gala event downtown in Hollywood,
and I'm sorry in Hollywood for the kind of cool kids.
I felt like it was cool kids. It was like
a hipster Make a Wish Foundation gala that um I
(07:35):
was asked to DJ, and I like every now and
then my manager was like, you need to DJ at
party where you actually get paid. You can't just DJ
charities because I don't know how to say no. But
it's also a beautiful service. I mean, I understand there's commerce,
but it's also beautiful service to be able to create
(07:56):
that environment for a charitable organization. But sometimes I'd like
to be asked to, like be able to get involved,
like for real, not just come DJ. So I actually
said no more than once to this event because I've
been on the road. I wasn't sure if I was
going to be in town and then and then, as
it turned out, we were off the road and my
(08:18):
friend called me up and say, uh, hey, can you DJ.
I'm part of this thing, And I was like, okay,
of course, I'll totally do this, and so can you
say no to the kids? Yeah? And once I knew
what because a lot of times people have a charity event,
it's not really a charity, like by the end of
the galla and all that stuff. You're like, oh, did
(08:40):
any money actually go to these things or just so
you guys can throw a party and have your name.
There's some of them where you're like, that's a little
suspect and um, so I wasn't really sure what when
you hear like it's a fashion show and it's a thing,
I was just like, Okay, this isn't a real deal.
But what my friend called me up and explained exactly
what it was, I was like, okay, yeah, I know
I have to do jay this. And then I got
(09:03):
there and I was just you during the beginning of it,
and I turned around at one point I was we
were in like the banquet area, nobody was there yet,
and I turned around and Cassandra was standing next to
the turntable as I was like, yeah, So I was,
you know, newly widowed, heart, heartbroken, shattered, clinically depressed, and
(09:30):
my shrink said, you have to leave the house. You
have to go places, just leave the house. So normally
I wouldn't go to an event in Hollywood. Uh, at
any point in my life, I agreed to go. The
same friend that that called Samantha, he's got he's a
(09:51):
guy called Drew Elliott. Our mutual friend from from New
York called me also and wanted to wanted to get
me out of the house, so I can't. It's so
old my I tried to cancel. Anyway. The point is
is that I got there, she got there. Neither of
us wanted to be there. As soon as I got there,
it was a room full of hipsters, and I was
(10:11):
very uncomfortable, and my friend Drew said here, I'm gonna
I'm gonna put you back here until the event starts
where you'll be more comfortable. And it was in this
back room where the only other person that was there
was Samantha. Yeah, it's interesting to me that you know,
I've been married thirty six years and I interviewed Chris
(10:34):
on this very podcast with his lifelong best friend. But
I could have interviewed my husband, because you're right, if
if the relationship is anything, is that your friends. You know,
as as we get older and as everything changes, it
is the friendship that that stays connecting us. It's not
(10:56):
as much the physical life or your interest change, but
the friendships stays um And so it's interesting. I'm happy
to be talking to two people somewhat in a newish relationship.
It's a couple of years. Three years three plus, yes,
three plus, Okay, you're almost through high school. My longest
relationship by probably three years. Okay, Well so before this
(11:25):
relationship in friendships, Samantha, you are a twin, and you
have a fairly big family. It seems like you have
a big, close knit family. Yeah, so I don't really
have a lot of friends family exactly. But when you
were little and creating friendships, you know, we all make
(11:46):
friends in school and stuff. What happened with you early
on in life? I know, and we we've spoken of
this a little bit, just outside of this conversation, that
you and your twin twins by nature, are friends. Yeah.
I mean Charlotte was actually more social than I was.
(12:07):
She she we went to different, different schools, so she
had her little click of girls, and um, I was
kind of always a bit of a loner and a reader,
the nice way of putting in. I was just like
a nerd and I stayed at home and read books,
and Charlotte had her friends. And you know, in any
(12:29):
other world or any movie that that would have been
like I would, I would have been bullied, and she
would have bullied me. But I think the only reason
I survived high school is because she was cool and
had my back. So even though we didn't really hang
out that much and I was definitely annoying to her,
she was so incredibly loyal that I think to this
(12:49):
day she could literally like hit me in the face
with like a two by four and I'd be like,
but she was so nice to me. A h school, Well,
high school, by the way, I think, is a real
to It's brutal. For most people, high school is just brutal,
or it's the greatest time of their lives and they
chase that high school feeling for the rest of their lives.
(13:12):
I it was the nightmare. For me, it was a nightmare.
So I I I think that's a common said here.
A common theme that I'm hearing is that high school
friendships UM, as much as little kid friendships UM, are important.
High school and college those really formative years where you
start to become who you are. You're much less the
(13:36):
imprint of your parents, and you're much more some beginning
of individuality, your own mind. You're being opened by education, literature,
books will you know cracked you open what about you, Cassandra,
when you were little. What was your sort of friend
(13:56):
connections when you were little. Well, I don't know. I
don't know that we've ever really talked about my childhood
much with you to Jamie, but I I had I
had a very unconventional childhood. I knew that my mother
left my father when I was a baby, so it
was me and my brother and she um remarried and
(14:17):
I had a step brother, so I had two older brothers,
and we moved around like gypsies um for the first
twelve years of my life. So every couple of years
we we moved and we lived in we lived on
a farm in the Smoky Mountains, we lived on an
(14:39):
Indian reservation and a t P and um. So by
nature moving around so much, I started to make friends
and then I would have to say goodbye to the friend,
which was sort of okay when I was very young,
and really became a problem, you know, when I was
(14:59):
sort of eight, nine, ten, I would be heartbroken because
I would have I would make a close friend, and
then we would have to leave and I would never
see them again. Um. And you know, from from what
I remember, I just wanted to hang out with my brothers.
So I think that's my first relationship with with a
(15:22):
friend would be my My two brothers were my were
my friends, you know when they let me so. So yeah,
so I and then in high school. Speaking of high school,
I went to live with my father, who always lived
in San Francisco, where I was originally from, was born,
and he lived in the same house. I spent holidays
(15:43):
and summers there, So that's sort of um, you know,
where I grew up, and I went to live with
him in high school and went I was homeschooled my
entire life until I was sport team and then went
to high school. Was my first school experience, so you
weren't around a lot of school children obviously. If you
(16:06):
were homeschooled, you as you said, you had your brothers
and Samantha, you had your twin and then other siblings.
I also, by the way, I had an elder sister,
my sister Kelly, and for all intents and purposes, she
was my best you know, we were total opposites, and
(16:27):
yet she was my ally, you know. She When you're
in a family structure and you have close siblings, they
are your friends. I mean, even if they are required
to be your friends because you are just by nature
related to each other. I have a lot of friends
who have siblings that they're not close with and don't
consider them friends, and I'm we're lucky if we have that. Yes,
(16:50):
I can answer it. I have a theory about this. Okay,
let's hear it the show about friendship, babe. I think
you're either close with your parents or you're close with
your siblings, and I find I find that most of
my obviously you can be a bit of both, but
most of my friends who had like dysfunctional families growing
(17:12):
up are super close with their siblings. Most and my
friends who had like the mom that like made the
cookies and all that, aren't necessarily as close with theirs.
I mean my parents, my parents were always gone, so
we have nanny's. But uh, I feel like my friends
who like Who's like, who are close with their moms
(17:36):
aren't necessarily their siblings. Do you reach out to your friends?
I mean, are your friends the first? I mean, it's
interesting because you're in a relationship and your friends, so
you guys go to each other for a lot of
the stuff that a lot of people go outside of
their romantic you know, in most anal relationship, they go
(18:01):
outside of it to find what they need from various
people in various areas of their life outside of their unit.
So it's interesting how much do you guys bring each other.
I mean, I don't really if if I couldn't tell
you a friend that I've spoken to really in the
(18:21):
last year. I mean I have Annabelle, my my younger sister,
and Charlotte Mark. I have people that that I love
that I have been friends with over the years that
you know, for maybe birthday birthday things. I've never really
been the best friends perfect. So what you're saying is
your family are your friends? Yeah, what about you, Cassandra,
(18:44):
You know, because I don't have a lot of family.
I really I have a few chosen members of my family,
and I have a very close friendship twenty year long
friendship with a woman called Carol. She's super, super smart.
She was a journalist and one of Peter Jennings for
(19:06):
a long time, and then her husband also died and
her best friend at the same time in a plane crash.
And she then wrote a memoir that was really great
book and then um New York Times bestseller. Now you're
you're like the good like support color commentary, Samantha, you
(19:29):
you have the good. You come in with all of
the salient details and information. Where did you meet Carol? So, yeah, Carol,
I met in New York City when I was living there,
and I kind of picked her up at a party
and it was after party to a movie premiere, and
I started talking to her, loved her and wanted to
(19:52):
really impress her and steal the deal. And at the time,
I used to play sort of the coolest thing about
me was that I played um high stakes poker and
in a game with all men, I was the only
female player. So I took her downtown to her uptown
to a to a poker game where we stayed there
(20:13):
until one o'clock in the morning, and then I had
one of the other poker players, um take her home
in his may back. Yeah, you know, we have we
have kind of parallel lives because she also lost her
husband to cancer and it was a you know, a
(20:34):
similar sort of five year battle, um like I had
with my husband and had She had just left her
husband maybe a couple of years before I met her,
and she had never had that um you know, she
was she was very serious career, very early on super
(20:55):
nerd um and married and never had that kind of, um,
carefree New York and your twenties kind of experience. So
you recognize quickly that she could have that with me. Yeah,
we had a lot of fun together. I didn't know
you played poker. By the way, do you still play?
(21:18):
I don't. I don't play anymore, my choice, not by law.
You haven't been like well, I'm imagining you know, guys
in you know, police uniforms saying like you're not allowed
to do that here. Yeah, at first it was very glamorous,
like like I described, and then it turned into me
(21:40):
playing um video poker until you know not sometimes nine
in the morning, and that could have been you know,
substances involved in that experience no longer glamorous and uh yeah,
so I haven't played poker and about I guess fifteen years. Wow,
(22:01):
this is new information I'm processing. I'm counting cards right now.
I'm trying to figure it out. Um No, but I
am friends with people who play poker. Um. And I
played in one poker game at someone's home where I
was staked. Um. They needed somebody to fill the table.
(22:22):
Somebody had gotten ill. I stepped in, and I I'm
not a good card player. I'm my sister Kelly is
like like total killer and you play Hearts with her,
she will viscerate you. And I'm just I like see
things and I'm like, oh I have like I got you.
You guys know me a little bit. I am hardly.
(22:44):
I don't have a good like oh, nothing's going on face,
I understand, But in that world, I'm not. I'm and
I'm And by the way, I don't have any game theory.
I'm not good with numbers. I am not good with
games like that at all. I don't like Crossroot, but
I'm like, not that person. But it I agreed to
sit in on this game, and I didn't know what
(23:04):
the f I was doing, not a clue. And I
remember a lot of high powered, very wealthy people in
my industry were there. And as I decided to emulate
my husband, who's very quiet, very serious, and doesn't he
has the greatest poker face you've ever seen in your life.
(23:26):
So I decided to just sort of be Chris guest.
And I showed up at this house and I ran
into somebody, somebody ran a studio or something, and they
were like, hey, Jamie, wow I played and I just
looked at him without smiling and went, yeah, just a
little nothing. I didn't say a word. And then I
walked up to the house. There were other people there,
and again people were like, wow, Hi, Jamie, I mean
(23:49):
people I worked with. I mean it was you know,
and I just smiled very little, like a little thin smile. Hi.
And I didn't even know where you're supposed to sit.
And I watched that the guy before me flipped over
a card and that determines your seat at the table.
(24:10):
So as soon as I knew where his seat was,
I did the math, a little bit of math and
figured out which seat I had, and then I just
didn't move, and I, you know, in the second hand,
I went all in. I've made a huge bet and
(24:31):
what happened, which was amazing. I went all in on
my second hand and the guy sitting across from me,
And I've learned this later that apparently the the worst
thing in a poker game is to not know someone
because you just don't know there tells you don't know
(24:52):
anything about them. And I didn't give up anything. I
sat there, and you know me, I'm really friendly I'm like,
really affectionate. And I sat there and I just thinn
smiled him, and this guy stared at me for the
longest time, and then you know, obviously I think he
(25:14):
I think he he folded at that point. Anyway, by
the end of the break where you combine the two
tables to one table, to the final table, I was
the chip leader at my table and I made the
fatal poker error. I called home. I called home, and
(25:37):
I was in a closet. I was like, Hi, I'm winning,
Oh my god, I'm winning. And all I heard was this,
what time will you be home? No enthusiasm, No, I'm
excited for you, honeyway to go, babe, none of it.
It was when will you be home? And I was like,
(25:58):
I don't know. I mean, I could make it all
the way up the table. And I hung up the
phone and you know, went to the table and gone
in two rounds to two rounds, I was gone. But
it was that's my poker story. I've never played again.
I'm not a poker player. I don't have a poker face.
(26:19):
Go go, I don't have a poker face. I just
I'm who I am. Something from a good friend We'll
be right back with more good friend after this quick break,
so stick around. Don't already a friend, I don't friendship.
(26:45):
So we've also been exploring now as the conversations have happened,
you know, friendships that have needed to either be amended
or let go of. And as we get older, we
are starting to understand that there are often times in
our adult lives where we have to let go of people,
(27:06):
that friendships become toxic, friendships become dangerous. Do you guys
have any experience with that? Samantha was just about to
say something. You know, when you're a kid and your
parents like put you in a plate, and you don't
necessarily you parallel play. Yeah, I realized that most of
my twenties and thirties I was just parallel playing. Like
(27:27):
all my friends were basically based on the fact that
we were all in the same place at the same time,
like either our parents for friends or this one, and
we just known each other forever. And then you're like, oh, wait,
just because we've known each other forever doesn't mean we
have to stay friends, Like doesn't mean we even like
each other or have anything in common. And then you
(27:50):
know what really killed I would say like sevent those
superficial friendships was social media and the last, I would say,
six years of politics and being so disappointed in so
many people who were too worried about their brand to
speak up or saying a thing. Social media has changed
(28:13):
a lot of friendships for me. You know, it's like
you remember that poloid campaign, like watch what develops, you know,
it develops narcissism, and you start to see like all
these people are like, oh, oh, oh, okay, this is
what you're interested in, this is this is what feeds
your soul or this this is the kind of thing
that you care about. Great. Cool, I'm happy for you.
(28:34):
Just you do that over there, and I'm gonna do
me over here. And I think a lot of my
friendships when I especially when I stopped drinking too, when
I wasn't just going to bars and hanging out, and
when I was done deejaying, I was actually just going home,
I realized like, oh, yeah, we weren't friends. You were
just like there, we were just in the same place
(28:55):
for so long that we just it's like this like
some patico or whatever it is you or you're just
like you know, and and I realized that most of
my friendships were just not really putting the time into
Once I moved like to the west side of l A.
And oh my friends were in Hollywood, and I would say,
(29:17):
like maybe two or three ever made that trip. M hm,
Well that says a lot, you know, I mean, it
says a lot. And parallel play is actually a great
way of describing it, because I do think people kind
of get on parallel tracks and they that they're not intersecting.
And I think, really, when you say the word good friend,
a good friend crosses from the east side of l
(29:39):
A to the west side. It's just what they do.
It's what people show up for each other. We we
know each other, the three of us, and it's called
showing up for each other. You have to. It's not
possible to have a friendship with somebody if you're not
showing up. If you're just as you said, in a
parallel universe, that it is not connection, that's not that's nothing.
(30:03):
That's just a lot. Yeah. I heard a on a
another podcast because now I listened to podcasts because it's
a new way of getting information, which I find interesting. Um.
It was called Life Examined, and they had this fantastic.
I wish I knew the woman's name. Forgive me for
not saying it. Um. She's a scientists, an englishwoman, and
(30:27):
she was studying the generation that I raised my daughter.
And you guys are younger, and Jules is a young
boy seven eight years old, and you know my my
youngest Ruby is now just had birthday. So I don't
(30:50):
have young people, but I raised my kids in a
generation where I like to refer to it as the
good climbing Brandon general tion, where parents would sit at
the park and the child would climb the structure, and
both parents on the sidelines were like, good climbing, Buddy,
(31:10):
good climbing Brandon. Way to go, come here, high five,
give it up you yeah, win, I win a chicken dinner.
And it was insane the way we filled them with
this omnipotence that they were the king of the universe.
And this woman has done a study talking about the
(31:31):
most that this generation is the depressed generation. It's a
it's a big, big problem of depression and loneliness. And
I think they refer to it as the loneliest generation.
Even though we have all the social media that you
just talked about you have all of the billions of people,
(31:53):
and yet people are lonely. And she was describing that
when she did studies and she interviewed this generation and said,
what is the word to describe you? One word? It
was not friendly, loving, generous, thoughtful. The word that was
(32:18):
most used was unique, all about the eye, the uniqueness
of and I thought that was very telling. And it's
difficult to make a friendship if you're focused on your
uniqueness and not focused out into the universe, which is
what I didn't know we were doing because I was
(32:41):
from the generation whose parents didn't pay attention to them.
And by the way, I perfectly fine parents. Don't let me.
I'm not going to slag off my parents here on
my podcast and be like, oh, they're horrible, you know
what I mean. They were parents, but they didn't pay attention.
They didn't know my friends names. I mean, one of
my best girlfriends to my mother, you know, five years
(33:02):
before my mother died, she would go up to and
go ahn it it's Debbie Oppenheimer, Jamie's best friend. I mean,
you know, my parents just didn't know my people. And
so I think our generation, my generation. Again, I'm older
than you, guys, was to say, I'm going to pay
attention to everything. I'm gonna watch every move you make.
(33:23):
I'm going to look at every drawing you make and say, oh,
look at that drawing. And it's just it was too
much of a reaction to my upbringing. And now I
think because I've seen you guys as parents, and I've
also seen this new generation where I think people are
(33:44):
starting to look outwards. What you were talking about Smith
about social media, where if people are so afraid of
their brand and they can't be open because they're afraid
of losing something, then that's that's not friendship. Yeah. So
I just remember when I was a kid. I feel
(34:04):
like I just started making ashtrays because at least get
used the things I made in art class, because otherwise
my mother was like, oh, it's great, you hold onto that.
My mother wasn't like, oh, you're gonna be an artist
when you grow up. She was like, yeah, when I
started making ashtrays, they got used. But I feel like
(34:25):
some of the some of these kids these days, they
just like I tweeted it the other day that I
was like, some of you all don't have siblings, and
it shows like someone needs to bully somebody. Do you
know what I mean? The only way that you like
Otherwise all these people think that they're like the smartest,
the funniest, the prettiest, the greatest, the And you're like,
(34:46):
someone needs to tell you, like somebody that loves you
needs to tell you that, Like that's not it. But
only your siblings can tell you hip because you know
they love you. You know it's coming from a nice place.
They're not just trying to like destroy you. But like,
maybe you're not Patassa, Maybe you're not the next you know, Einstein,
(35:08):
Maybe you're just you. And I think we kind of
that's what That's what friendship is, is telling you with
kindness and love, no something I'll get. If I'm a
good friend, We'll be right back with more good friend
After this quick break. We know each other. We have
(35:38):
now met each other, the three of us and other people,
and we are starting to really explore all those friendships.
It's how we know each other. And I used to
like honestly walk up to people and go, will you
be my friend? I have um people know I'm in recovery,
(35:58):
and you know, when I was early in recovery, and
I would see all of these best friends, you know,
celebrating each other and talking about how they used to
get wasted together and now they don't, and you know
how happy they all are. And there were a couple,
not a couple, not a romantic couple, but just a
best friends couple who both two women, who had both
(36:21):
gotten sober, and I was so lonely and didn't know
how to make friends in that in recovery. Um. I
don't know if it was I felt separate because I
was famous, and whatever it was, whatever was there, I was.
(36:41):
And I actually called them both and said, can we be?
Can I be friends with you guys? Which is to
me the sort of delicate underbelly of friendship that is
so crucial, which is why I think we all feel
very close to each other there, even though we all
(37:02):
haven't known each other that long. I feel like you
guys are my good friends. And it's because of that vulnerability, um,
which I think comes which is a component of friendship. Um,
what would you think of that? Cassan, let me just
throw this in there, but no, no, you throw anything
(37:22):
you want. I just she was looking kind of pensive,
so I didn't know it felt like she had something
to say, but go I was thinking this the other day,
separate from this podcast situation, like how grateful I am
that I get to be your friend. Like you're honestly
like one of the kindest, most generous, caring, thoughtful, Like
(37:46):
you know, like every now and then I'll just, you know,
open the mailbox and there's something from your address. And
I opened it up and it's it's a nameplate of
my new dog. That like, I mean, they need to
have a nameplate on their great but they don't, and
they do, Samantha, But but exactly, like you're just always
(38:07):
so kind and so sweet and so thoughtful and like
you know things that it's and you have a full life.
You're busy, You're you have a home, you have all this,
you have this new my hand and your business, you're
doing this podcast, You're you're literally one of the busiest
person people. You're one of the busiest people I know,
(38:29):
and you find the time to do that. I am
doing absolutely fall And I comparely, I gave Cassandra a
card for for Valentine saying and she's like, yo, you
didn't write anything on it. I was like, real nice, sup,
Do you know what I mean? Like nothing but time
on my hands, and there you are, just juggling plates
(38:49):
and okay, okay, well, I'll edit all that I want.
But I'm saying, that's very sweet of you. But it's
because I've also shown you my delicate underbelly, because I
have extended my hand to you and said, will you
be my friend? When we first met, I walked up
(39:09):
to you and hugged you. I was terrified. You were terrified.
That's fine, but it's kind of you just a hug whatever,
that's fine, and I understand that now and now I
approach much more carefully. And now we can't hug anyway.
We can't even look at each other. I'm surprised that
we've we still know each other, because you know the restrictions.
(39:31):
But to me, it's that delicate underbelly. It's that real
sense of you know, I marry people, and I have
married people, and I use the marriage ceremony that Chris
and I were married under written by a woman from
(39:53):
the Judson Church in New York, a woman named Lee
Hancock is no longer here um, but she was reverend
and she married us. And in the ceremony she says,
you have chosen each other to combat the loneliness of
human existence, that you have come together to do that,
(40:13):
to combat it, to be each other's out, you know,
to be an ally. And so I do feel that
the loneliness of human existence, the vulnerability of human beings
is really ultimately what is connecting us all, even though
as you said, we're all sort of busy and have
ideas and talents. Really it is that. So that's to me,
(40:34):
the real connective tissue here, Cassandra, what are you going
to say you had an idea? Well, I think that
recovery that we have in common, and really the ability
to be vulnerable and open and trust each other is
(40:56):
what creates that long lasting bond. As long as you
have that trust, like that whole thing of you know,
trust makes everything simpler and you're not trying to navigate
like what do you want from me? And what am I?
What is the transaction here? And it's about we authentically
(41:23):
want connection and just to be able to really be seen.
I don't think that that friendship is real unless there
is that vulnerability and trust. Um. I've had a lot
of friendships or relationships that we're not built on trust
(41:50):
that you know, you you you spoke about cutting people
out of your of your lives or of your life,
and you know that's I'm also a person and I
know you as well, and Samantha certainly being a LEO
that really values loyalty. And I struggled with that for
(42:14):
a long time of how can I cut this person
off if I am loyal mhm um. And so I
would continue to engage in these sort of dysfunctional, unhealthy
relationships largely just because they were not built on trust,
and it was very you know that they're all very
(42:36):
transactional in an unhealthy way. And until I recognized that,
you know, cutting someone off or creating healthy boundaries don't
have trust or authentic connection is actually the most respectful
thing that you can do in that relationship. And that
(43:01):
conflict we we learned from. You know, I think I
had a I had a really close friend um that
passed away. I wasn't very good at saying no, so
I would often say yes to everything and then I
would flake just not show up or you know, canceled
(43:26):
the last minute or little things like that. And he
sat me down once and he said, you know, this
is this is this is not a real friendship. That
you don't value my time and that you are always
(43:47):
you know, not not showing up or flaking and it's
okay to say no, but say no. And and I
I always remember that because it's like that's the thing
about build being built on built on trust, Like you
can have healthy boundaries or you're not available for someone,
(44:11):
or you can't do something for someone, as long as
you are clear about it and why. And then I
think that you have this mutual respect that you can
rely on one another. And then I think, you know,
if if someone isn't isn't ready to have a healthy
relationship that is authentic or or you know they can
(44:35):
trust you, then you know you can. They may they
may come back around. But in my experience, it's it's
it's been really important to me to either create boundaries
or end relationships if they feel like, you know, unhealthy,
that we're sucking each other's energy. And I always say
(44:59):
the there's that that Oprah, you know, she she talks
a lot about how she's so concerned about the energy
that she puts out into the room, and then she
also realized that she needs to be very concerned with
the energy that she allows in her space. And her
orbit in her field, and that there's so many energy
(45:21):
suckers out there and you don't even really know why.
But I think with I think that you know, I
recognize that a lot. Now. I can recognize that pretty
quickly now versus before when I would have I had
a lot of you know, inauthentic relationships, friendships, business relationships,
(45:43):
and I just at a certain point I just wasn't
I didn't want to have that anymore. But yeah, I
mean I think that that's certainly the experience that I
know Samantha's had with you and I've had with you
and the other sort of friends that we have in comment. Yeah,
it's we really can can trust each other. And you know,
(46:07):
I get such energy from you and from Samantha, UM,
and I really recognize that, Like I can recognize that
you're around people often sometimes people you know that you
work with or that are your friends or family that
you're around all the time, and you know, taking the
(46:27):
time to say, hey, am I getting energy from this person?
Am I giving energy to this person? Um? Is just
life changing And it takes time. I mean that's you know,
I'm impatient, so I want everything, you know, I am
that and me. You know, I I saw Chris's picture,
(46:48):
I said, I'm going to marry him. And I married him,
like it's so fast, and you know it's thirty six
years later. I've started to go, oh, oh, interesting, that's
who you are. You know, I don't. I'm learning to
take time. I remember, you're gonna laugh at me. Um
but a Violet Gray approved person Michelle Peiffer. When Michelle
(47:13):
was a young actress, I did the same thing. I
called her because we were in competition. Not that I
ever got those jobs, but you know what I mean,
Like we were in competition always. Her name was always
on every casting sheet that I was ever up for. Always,
(47:34):
And I called her and said, can we be friends
so that we're not enemies, because I don't want to
hate you. And if I know you are not gonna
hate you if you get the part. If I don't
know you, you're gonna remain this unreachable foe and you're not.
(47:58):
You're I'm guest seeing You're a decent person. And I'm
getting you, know I I I maybe that's the beginnings
of even me starting a podcast was during COVID, you know,
where I was alone with my husband a lot. I
did start to really wonder about friendship and how important
(48:22):
it is to me to others. And you can't get
there without saying, here's my hand, will you hold it?
Will you allow me? And allow you in? And you
know I could say, you guys were like whatever, we
(48:45):
can all create the reasons why you wouldn't want to
be my friend. It's just human nature. We're gonna go
oh or not. You know, I don't like moisturizer enough
until now. Um, but do you know what I mean?
Like your run a beauty business. I'm I don't where
literally anything on my face, so I didn't think I
(49:06):
would be able. But you're so not somebody in the
beauty business. I mean, look at you. I mean that
I'm not. You aren't a painted person. You're not a
fake painted person. You I'm you know, you're in the
music business. I'm not. I listen to music every single
day from the moment I wake up till the moment
(49:29):
I go to sleep, there's music playing. But I'm not
a musician. I'm married a musician who practices his instrument,
you know, all day long, every day. And I would
be like, well, how could I relate? But the truth is.
I'm so completely relate to you, Samantha. We're all just
humans and what we do or or or it still
(49:50):
comes up. You sent me this is it, Jose Young Goazalez,
Leaf Cave or leaf. You sent me that. Uh loved it,
like you would gift the song as opposed to just
sending a link. I didn't know how to do any
of that. I've only now understand you can send it.
I seriously, I like to buy it same. I like
(50:13):
to support artists. I'd like to pay for it as well,
like you have my money. Um, but you know, you connect,
you know when you're a kid or you're an adolescent.
You know, we all bond over people we hate or things,
you know what I mean. They're like that that that
felt like so many of my friendships were like when
(50:33):
you're young and you're like a party, I hate her too,
let's be best friend and like and then news to say,
those those friendships don't necessarily last because maybe the only
thing you have in common is that you hate that
other person but you which is really just jealousy of
that other person probably or just some some you know,
(50:55):
attached thing about that other person, not justified. But but
when you make friendships with people over things that you
love or like in common, then that's generally a better
way to start a friendship because it's by putting sharing
light as opposed to darkness. And I feel like so
many friendships that I have when I was young were
(51:15):
like just based on like we both hate that person,
but like that's it, and that is not enough to
start a friendship. But you know, when you when you
said you wanted to be friends in the shelf fiber,
it's so much more fun to root for people. It's
you know, you you want to to have that. I
love having friends that that I can get excited for
(51:38):
and be happy for. There's there's enough in the world.
Like it's nice to just find the things that you
love in common. And that's really that's enough for me. Yeah,
I think my relationship with Carol is you know, not
to like rank different relationships in my life, but I
(52:00):
think it's it's it's such an important relationship that I
have this best friend that we can talk every day,
multiple times a day, and then sometimes go you know,
three or four months without talking, but we're always connected.
(52:22):
We've always been connected this this whole time, and I'm
so grateful for that relationship because you know, through throughout
everything she's just she's she's been there, and it doesn't
have the threat of a romantic relationship. You know, romantic
relationship there's always a threat of that person may not
(52:44):
be in love with you anymore and then they're gone.
So basically you write your friendship with Carola bobars Well,
it's just different, but it's like it's not as, it's
not as vulnerable because there's not that romantic piece, which
is a whole world of its own. Two. I was
talking about exposing that delicate underbelly. That's exposing a whole
(53:07):
other delicate underbelly of ourselves to someone else. Yeah, and
I think that, you know, a lot of a lot
of times I'll speak to two women usually, but men too,
and especially during the pandemic, where if they're not with someone,
they're so lonely and they think that they need, you know,
(53:28):
a romantic relationship versus a friendship. People don't seek out
friendships in the same way that they seek out this
romantic relationship that they think they should have. Jamie does, well,
Jamie's is an exception, but typically, I mean, you know,
I think that seek seeking out a friendship. Pursuing a
(53:50):
friendship is it's so it's so courageous and it can
be me so much more meaningful than a Roman antick relationship.
I mean like Bumble, you know, Bumble of course, Bumble
the dating app. I don't know, Well, there's a Lost
says of course, like yeah, James donal us. They advertise everywhere.
(54:16):
I mean, I don't know how you don't notice that. Okay,
So Bumble. You know there's a there's a handful of
dating sites, Tender, Bumble. Now I've heard about Tender, I've
heard about Matching, and Bumble has met. You know, they
have a division that is about finding friends, like it's
(54:36):
it's like BFF or something, which I thought was you know,
just telling of the time that we live in as people,
you know, young people particularly, I find that they're not
as set on okay I'm going to you know, grow
up and and and meet someone and fall in love
and get married. Um. You know, they value other platonic
(55:01):
relationships also as being ant So the algorithm that they
use is based on your likes and interests, and it's
very similar to the dating apps, except there's not sex involved.
It's I'm looking for a friend who I will then
build a friendship with. Wow, that's fascinating. I've never heard that. Um, well,
(55:22):
thank you ladies. I've enjoyed this so much I could
I could continue this for another couple of hours. Um,
but this is what this is about. It's exploring friendship,
you know, in all aspects, and you both have brought
such interesting insights. Both of you have completely dropped some
big thought bombs on us the listener, and I will
(55:44):
think about all of them, and UM, you know, it's
it's an undefined world about friendship and we're trying to
explore it and not define it but sort of give
it different aspects, and you guys have brought a really
interesting perspective to it. So on behalf of my listener.
I like to believe I have one, like I'm just
(56:06):
I try not to be like Hubricy and think like
I I got a lot of them. So I would
like to thank my one listener that I know of
for sure? Are you saying you're two listeners? So now
I have three, and so now we're strong. We're three strong.
But on behalf of my listeners. Um, thank you, Cassandra
Gray and Samantha Ronson for being good friends and God
(56:30):
bless everyone listening, and stay safe and make good choices,
don't and don't smoke cigarettes. There you go, all right
piece everybody. Good Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and
(56:57):
is a production of my Heart Radio. Our theme song,
good Friend is written, produced, and performed by Emily King.
Don't Already ate it from a good friend, Don't already
(57:21):
ate it from a good friend. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
If there's something native. I'm a good friend. Hi, everybody,
it's Jamie Lee Curtis. You're listening to the Good Friend Podcast,
presented to you by I Heart Radio. It's a podcast
(00:22):
about friendship, sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly,
the triumphs of friendship, the immense connection and emotion of friendship,
the laughter and occasionally the tears. We explore it all
in an unscripted, very free form way, with many, many
(00:42):
different guests, some I'm very close friends with, some I've
never met. And I hope that you will take away
from it something that connects you to your friends, and
that the ideas that we talk about can maybe be
taken into your own friendships. So sit back, or take
a walk, or however you listen. I hope you enjoy
(01:03):
it and stay tuned. A locative and a good friend.
This is starting very formally, that it will be the
first formal introduction that I've done. Normally, we're just laughing. Um, Hello,
everyone listening. I keep wanting to say watching, but it's
(01:24):
not watching, it's listening. It's called a podcast. I'm getting
I'm new at this. I'm sixty three, doesn't matter, you see,
I'm I'm an old dog learning new tricks. Welcome to
the podcast good Friend, where we discuss all things friendship, good, bad, ugly, complicated, easy.
A lot of people have talked about ease in friendships. UM,
(01:46):
my guests today officially or Samantha ronson and UM, I
was going to call you Violet Gray, which is just
me like, maybe I'll call you Violet from now on. Um,
Cassandra Gray. Who are my friends and who are friends themselves?
And special friends? This is that what we call it.
(02:07):
I'm I'm asking you. This is you're the guest. I'm
the you know, I'm the official asker and you're the
apparently official answer. Or yes, I would say that that
is correct. We are we are friends. I would even
say best friends and uh and also significant others and
(02:32):
emergency contacts. Yes, that's the commitment. Is the emergency contact?
Do you have it listed under ICE in your phone? No? Oh? Okay,
So just so the uninitiated listener knows, you know, if
you put your significant other emergency contact in your phone
(02:52):
under I C in case of emergency, Um, that's so,
And somebody opens your phone or can get to your
phone without having to know who to look for. They
look for ice. So my husband is under in my phone.
Is ice ice ice? Ice? Baby? Yeah? Sure? Too cold,
(03:13):
too cold. I know. I'm sorry, I couldn't help it. Um,
you know I'm wearing earphones. You're not. And Samantha Ronson,
besides being my friend, is also professionally, as the kids say,
a DJ, do you have like a DJ name? Yes,
DJ Samantha Ronson, that's your DJ names. Yeah, I never
(03:36):
came up with anything clever. I'm down with DJ Samantha Ronson.
But you are a DJ by trade, by profession, and
you wear earphone So I've seen you do this thing
which I'm about to now do. You guys can't see
it who are listening, But I'm about to flip them
down for a second, and then I'm also doing the
(03:58):
thing where you take one of them off the ear.
That's what I do. I'm new at this. This is
the sound of your phones. I've never worn your phones.
I always found it was a sort of affectation for
women my age walking with earphones on, and so it's
been very interesting for me to wear them. Um, I
do get into the sound of my own voice. You
(04:21):
wear them, well, thank you. It's not good with short hair.
I'm finding I'm just saying, I don't know. My bangs
don't know what to do, you know what I mean.
Because there's a thing it's like a headband, So my
bangs kind of get Well, here's what you have to do. Okay,
don't bring them on from the front like a headband,
bringing from them back. Okay. Um, as you said your
(04:43):
best friends, how did you meet as friends? Cassandra, We
met um in a town called New York City. Who
heard about it when I was living in l A
And I was there on business with my assistant who
(05:04):
is or is friendly with Samantha, and we she she
we were staying at the Bowery Hotel. And at the
time I was very happily married and very much in
love with my husband, and Um, yet I had a crush,
(05:25):
so much so that I told my husband about it
because I had never had a crush on a girl before,
so it was it was a memorable first encounter for
that reason. And then yeah, we didn't. We saw each
other a few more times in passing over the next
(05:47):
five years. And then I would say we saw each
other a few times in that in the next few months,
we just happened to run into each other and then
we I don't remember seeing you for these of yours. Yeah.
So and then, um, you hired me to DJ your
husband's birthday party. Two. It wasn't just passing. You gave
(06:07):
me a large amount of money. This is true. We
ran into each other a few times, and then I
hired her to d J Brad who was my husband,
my late husband, his birthday his I won't to think
it was maybe fifty five birthday. Surprise birthday. Oh, my
(06:30):
husband said he would leave me if I were through
a surprise party. We actually vowed in our marriage ceremony
that we vowed never to give each other a surprise party. Yeah,
I got. I actually was able to surprise him, and
it was pretty pretty wild because there was a lot
of people there right like maybe I don't know, I
(06:50):
didn't count, but yeah, and then it's pretty romantic. And
that we came back into each other's lives after my
husband passed away, and we were both in the same
place at the same time, fairly remarkably because either neither
(07:11):
of us wanted to be in this place, which was
um a Make a Wish Foundation gala event downtown in Hollywood,
and I'm sorry in Hollywood for the kind of cool kids.
I felt like it was cool kids. It was like
a hipster Make a Wish Foundation gala that um I
(07:35):
was asked to DJ, and I like every now and
then my manager was like, you need to DJ at
party where you actually get paid. You can't just DJ
charities because I don't know how to say no. But
it's also a beautiful service. I mean, I understand there's commerce,
but it's also beautiful service to be able to create
(07:56):
that environment for a charitable organization. But sometimes I'd like
to be asked to, like be able to get involved,
like for real, not just come DJ. So I actually
said no more than once to this event because I've
been on the road. I wasn't sure if I was
going to be in town and then and then, as
it turned out, we were off the road and my
(08:18):
friend called me up and say, uh, hey, can you DJ.
I'm part of this thing, And I was like, okay,
of course, I'll totally do this, and so can you
say no to the kids? Yeah? And once I knew
what because a lot of times people have a charity event,
it's not really a charity, like by the end of
the galla and all that stuff. You're like, oh, did
(08:40):
any money actually go to these things or just so
you guys can throw a party and have your name.
There's some of them where you're like, that's a little
suspect and um, so I wasn't really sure what when
you hear like it's a fashion show and it's a thing,
I was just like, Okay, this isn't a real deal.
But what my friend called me up and explained exactly
what it was, I was like, okay, yeah, I know
I have to do jay this. And then I got
(09:03):
there and I was just you during the beginning of it,
and I turned around at one point I was we
were in like the banquet area, nobody was there yet,
and I turned around and Cassandra was standing next to
the turntable as I was like, yeah, So I was,
you know, newly widowed, heart, heartbroken, shattered, clinically depressed, and
(09:30):
my shrink said, you have to leave the house. You
have to go places, just leave the house. So normally
I wouldn't go to an event in Hollywood. Uh, at
any point in my life, I agreed to go. The
same friend that that called Samantha, he's got he's a
(09:51):
guy called Drew Elliott. Our mutual friend from from New
York called me also and wanted to wanted to get
me out of the house, so I can't. It's so
old my I tried to cancel. Anyway. The point is
is that I got there, she got there. Neither of
us wanted to be there. As soon as I got there,
it was a room full of hipsters, and I was
(10:11):
very uncomfortable, and my friend Drew said here, I'm gonna
I'm gonna put you back here until the event starts
where you'll be more comfortable. And it was in this
back room where the only other person that was there
was Samantha. Yeah, it's interesting to me that you know,
I've been married thirty six years and I interviewed Chris
(10:34):
on this very podcast with his lifelong best friend. But
I could have interviewed my husband, because you're right, if
if the relationship is anything, is that your friends. You know,
as as we get older and as everything changes, it
is the friendship that that stays connecting us. It's not
(10:56):
as much the physical life or your interest change, but
the friendships stays um And so it's interesting. I'm happy
to be talking to two people somewhat in a newish relationship.
It's a couple of years. Three years three plus, yes,
three plus, Okay, you're almost through high school. My longest
relationship by probably three years. Okay, Well so before this
(11:25):
relationship in friendships, Samantha, you are a twin, and you
have a fairly big family. It seems like you have
a big, close knit family. Yeah, so I don't really
have a lot of friends family exactly. But when you
were little and creating friendships, you know, we all make
(11:46):
friends in school and stuff. What happened with you early
on in life? I know, and we we've spoken of
this a little bit, just outside of this conversation, that
you and your twin twins by nature, are friends. Yeah.
I mean Charlotte was actually more social than I was.
(12:07):
She she we went to different, different schools, so she
had her little click of girls, and um, I was
kind of always a bit of a loner and a reader,
the nice way of putting in. I was just like
a nerd and I stayed at home and read books,
and Charlotte had her friends. And you know, in any
(12:29):
other world or any movie that that would have been
like I would, I would have been bullied, and she
would have bullied me. But I think the only reason
I survived high school is because she was cool and
had my back. So even though we didn't really hang
out that much and I was definitely annoying to her,
she was so incredibly loyal that I think to this
(12:49):
day she could literally like hit me in the face
with like a two by four and I'd be like,
but she was so nice to me. A h school, Well,
high school, by the way, I think, is a real
to It's brutal. For most people, high school is just brutal,
or it's the greatest time of their lives and they
chase that high school feeling for the rest of their lives.
(13:12):
I it was the nightmare. For me, it was a nightmare.
So I I I think that's a common said here.
A common theme that I'm hearing is that high school
friendships UM, as much as little kid friendships UM, are important.
High school and college those really formative years where you
start to become who you are. You're much less the
(13:36):
imprint of your parents, and you're much more some beginning
of individuality, your own mind. You're being opened by education, literature,
books will you know cracked you open what about you, Cassandra,
when you were little. What was your sort of friend
(13:56):
connections when you were little. Well, I don't know. I
don't know that we've ever really talked about my childhood
much with you to Jamie, but I I had I
had a very unconventional childhood. I knew that my mother
left my father when I was a baby, so it
was me and my brother and she um remarried and
(14:17):
I had a step brother, so I had two older brothers,
and we moved around like gypsies um for the first
twelve years of my life. So every couple of years
we we moved and we lived in we lived on
a farm in the Smoky Mountains, we lived on an
(14:39):
Indian reservation and a t P and um. So by
nature moving around so much, I started to make friends
and then I would have to say goodbye to the friend,
which was sort of okay when I was very young,
and really became a problem, you know, when I was
(14:59):
sort of eight, nine, ten, I would be heartbroken because
I would have I would make a close friend, and
then we would have to leave and I would never
see them again. Um. And you know, from from what
I remember, I just wanted to hang out with my brothers.
So I think that's my first relationship with with a
(15:22):
friend would be my My two brothers were my were
my friends, you know when they let me so. So yeah,
so I and then in high school. Speaking of high school,
I went to live with my father, who always lived
in San Francisco, where I was originally from, was born,
and he lived in the same house. I spent holidays
(15:43):
and summers there, So that's sort of um, you know,
where I grew up, and I went to live with
him in high school and went I was homeschooled my
entire life until I was sport team and then went
to high school. Was my first school experience, so you
weren't around a lot of school children obviously. If you
(16:06):
were homeschooled, you as you said, you had your brothers
and Samantha, you had your twin and then other siblings.
I also, by the way, I had an elder sister,
my sister Kelly, and for all intents and purposes, she
was my best you know, we were total opposites, and
(16:27):
yet she was my ally, you know. She When you're
in a family structure and you have close siblings, they
are your friends. I mean, even if they are required
to be your friends because you are just by nature
related to each other. I have a lot of friends
who have siblings that they're not close with and don't
consider them friends, and I'm we're lucky if we have that. Yes,
(16:50):
I can answer it. I have a theory about this. Okay,
let's hear it the show about friendship, babe. I think
you're either close with your parents or you're close with
your siblings, and I find I find that most of
my obviously you can be a bit of both, but
most of my friends who had like dysfunctional families growing
(17:12):
up are super close with their siblings. Most and my
friends who had like the mom that like made the
cookies and all that, aren't necessarily as close with theirs.
I mean my parents, my parents were always gone, so
we have nanny's. But uh, I feel like my friends
who like Who's like, who are close with their moms
(17:36):
aren't necessarily their siblings. Do you reach out to your friends?
I mean, are your friends the first? I mean, it's
interesting because you're in a relationship and your friends, so
you guys go to each other for a lot of
the stuff that a lot of people go outside of
their romantic you know, in most anal relationship, they go
(18:01):
outside of it to find what they need from various
people in various areas of their life outside of their unit.
So it's interesting how much do you guys bring each other.
I mean, I don't really if if I couldn't tell
you a friend that I've spoken to really in the
(18:21):
last year. I mean I have Annabelle, my my younger sister,
and Charlotte Mark. I have people that that I love
that I have been friends with over the years that
you know, for maybe birthday birthday things. I've never really
been the best friends perfect. So what you're saying is
your family are your friends? Yeah, what about you, Cassandra,
(18:44):
You know, because I don't have a lot of family.
I really I have a few chosen members of my family,
and I have a very close friendship twenty year long
friendship with a woman called Carol. She's super, super smart.
She was a journalist and one of Peter Jennings for
(19:06):
a long time, and then her husband also died and
her best friend at the same time in a plane crash.
And she then wrote a memoir that was really great
book and then um New York Times bestseller. Now you're
you're like the good like support color commentary, Samantha, you
(19:29):
you have the good. You come in with all of
the salient details and information. Where did you meet Carol? So, yeah, Carol,
I met in New York City when I was living there,
and I kind of picked her up at a party
and it was after party to a movie premiere, and
I started talking to her, loved her and wanted to
(19:52):
really impress her and steal the deal. And at the time,
I used to play sort of the coolest thing about
me was that I played um high stakes poker and
in a game with all men, I was the only
female player. So I took her downtown to her uptown
to a to a poker game where we stayed there
(20:13):
until one o'clock in the morning, and then I had
one of the other poker players, um take her home
in his may back. Yeah, you know, we have we
have kind of parallel lives because she also lost her
husband to cancer and it was a you know, a
(20:34):
similar sort of five year battle, um like I had
with my husband and had She had just left her
husband maybe a couple of years before I met her,
and she had never had that um you know, she
was she was very serious career, very early on super
(20:55):
nerd um and married and never had that kind of, um,
carefree New York and your twenties kind of experience. So
you recognize quickly that she could have that with me. Yeah,
we had a lot of fun together. I didn't know
you played poker. By the way, do you still play?
(21:18):
I don't. I don't play anymore, my choice, not by law.
You haven't been like well, I'm imagining you know, guys
in you know, police uniforms saying like you're not allowed
to do that here. Yeah, at first it was very glamorous,
like like I described, and then it turned into me
(21:40):
playing um video poker until you know not sometimes nine
in the morning, and that could have been you know,
substances involved in that experience no longer glamorous and uh yeah,
so I haven't played poker and about I guess fifteen years. Wow,
(22:01):
this is new information I'm processing. I'm counting cards right now.
I'm trying to figure it out. Um No, but I
am friends with people who play poker. Um. And I
played in one poker game at someone's home where I
was staked. Um. They needed somebody to fill the table.
(22:22):
Somebody had gotten ill. I stepped in, and I I'm
not a good card player. I'm my sister Kelly is
like like total killer and you play Hearts with her,
she will viscerate you. And I'm just I like see
things and I'm like, oh I have like I got you.
You guys know me a little bit. I am hardly.
(22:44):
I don't have a good like oh, nothing's going on face,
I understand, But in that world, I'm not. I'm and
I'm And by the way, I don't have any game theory.
I'm not good with numbers. I am not good with
games like that at all. I don't like Crossroot, but
I'm like, not that person. But it I agreed to
sit in on this game, and I didn't know what
(23:04):
the f I was doing, not a clue. And I
remember a lot of high powered, very wealthy people in
my industry were there. And as I decided to emulate
my husband, who's very quiet, very serious, and doesn't he
has the greatest poker face you've ever seen in your life.
(23:26):
So I decided to just sort of be Chris guest.
And I showed up at this house and I ran
into somebody, somebody ran a studio or something, and they
were like, hey, Jamie, wow I played and I just
looked at him without smiling and went, yeah, just a
little nothing. I didn't say a word. And then I
walked up to the house. There were other people there,
and again people were like, wow, Hi, Jamie, I mean
(23:49):
people I worked with. I mean it was you know,
and I just smiled very little, like a little thin smile. Hi.
And I didn't even know where you're supposed to sit.
And I watched that the guy before me flipped over
a card and that determines your seat at the table.
(24:10):
So as soon as I knew where his seat was,
I did the math, a little bit of math and
figured out which seat I had, and then I just
didn't move, and I, you know, in the second hand,
I went all in. I've made a huge bet and
(24:31):
what happened, which was amazing. I went all in on
my second hand and the guy sitting across from me,
And I've learned this later that apparently the the worst
thing in a poker game is to not know someone
because you just don't know there tells you don't know
(24:52):
anything about them. And I didn't give up anything. I
sat there, and you know me, I'm really friendly I'm like,
really affectionate. And I sat there and I just thinn
smiled him, and this guy stared at me for the
longest time, and then you know, obviously I think he
(25:14):
I think he he folded at that point. Anyway, by
the end of the break where you combine the two
tables to one table, to the final table, I was
the chip leader at my table and I made the
fatal poker error. I called home. I called home, and
(25:37):
I was in a closet. I was like, Hi, I'm winning,
Oh my god, I'm winning. And all I heard was this,
what time will you be home? No enthusiasm, No, I'm
excited for you, honeyway to go, babe, none of it.
It was when will you be home? And I was like,
(25:58):
I don't know. I mean, I could make it all
the way up the table. And I hung up the
phone and you know, went to the table and gone
in two rounds to two rounds, I was gone. But
it was that's my poker story. I've never played again.
I'm not a poker player. I don't have a poker face.
(26:19):
Go go, I don't have a poker face. I just
I'm who I am. Something from a good friend We'll
be right back with more good friend after this quick break,
so stick around. Don't already a friend, I don't friendship.
(26:45):
So we've also been exploring now as the conversations have happened,
you know, friendships that have needed to either be amended
or let go of. And as we get older, we
are starting to understand that there are often times in
our adult lives where we have to let go of people,
(27:06):
that friendships become toxic, friendships become dangerous. Do you guys
have any experience with that? Samantha was just about to
say something. You know, when you're a kid and your
parents like put you in a plate, and you don't
necessarily you parallel play. Yeah, I realized that most of
my twenties and thirties I was just parallel playing. Like
(27:27):
all my friends were basically based on the fact that
we were all in the same place at the same time,
like either our parents for friends or this one, and
we just known each other forever. And then you're like, oh, wait,
just because we've known each other forever doesn't mean we
have to stay friends, Like doesn't mean we even like
each other or have anything in common. And then you
(27:50):
know what really killed I would say like sevent those
superficial friendships was social media and the last, I would say,
six years of politics and being so disappointed in so
many people who were too worried about their brand to
speak up or saying a thing. Social media has changed
(28:13):
a lot of friendships for me. You know, it's like
you remember that poloid campaign, like watch what develops, you know,
it develops narcissism, and you start to see like all
these people are like, oh, oh, oh, okay, this is
what you're interested in, this is this is what feeds
your soul or this this is the kind of thing
that you care about. Great. Cool, I'm happy for you.
(28:34):
Just you do that over there, and I'm gonna do
me over here. And I think a lot of my
friendships when I especially when I stopped drinking too, when
I wasn't just going to bars and hanging out, and
when I was done deejaying, I was actually just going home,
I realized like, oh, yeah, we weren't friends. You were
just like there, we were just in the same place
(28:55):
for so long that we just it's like this like
some patico or whatever it is you or you're just
like you know, and and I realized that most of
my friendships were just not really putting the time into
Once I moved like to the west side of l A.
And oh my friends were in Hollywood, and I would say,
(29:17):
like maybe two or three ever made that trip. M hm,
Well that says a lot, you know, I mean, it
says a lot. And parallel play is actually a great
way of describing it, because I do think people kind
of get on parallel tracks and they that they're not intersecting.
And I think, really, when you say the word good friend,
a good friend crosses from the east side of l
(29:39):
A to the west side. It's just what they do.
It's what people show up for each other. We we
know each other, the three of us, and it's called
showing up for each other. You have to. It's not
possible to have a friendship with somebody if you're not
showing up. If you're just as you said, in a
parallel universe, that it is not connection, that's not that's nothing.
(30:03):
That's just a lot. Yeah. I heard a on a
another podcast because now I listened to podcasts because it's
a new way of getting information, which I find interesting. Um.
It was called Life Examined, and they had this fantastic.
I wish I knew the woman's name. Forgive me for
not saying it. Um. She's a scientists, an englishwoman, and
(30:27):
she was studying the generation that I raised my daughter.
And you guys are younger, and Jules is a young
boy seven eight years old, and you know my my
youngest Ruby is now just had birthday. So I don't
(30:50):
have young people, but I raised my kids in a
generation where I like to refer to it as the
good climbing Brandon general tion, where parents would sit at
the park and the child would climb the structure, and
both parents on the sidelines were like, good climbing, Buddy,
(31:10):
good climbing Brandon. Way to go, come here, high five,
give it up you yeah, win, I win a chicken dinner.
And it was insane the way we filled them with
this omnipotence that they were the king of the universe.
And this woman has done a study talking about the
(31:31):
most that this generation is the depressed generation. It's a
it's a big, big problem of depression and loneliness. And
I think they refer to it as the loneliest generation.
Even though we have all the social media that you
just talked about you have all of the billions of people,
(31:53):
and yet people are lonely. And she was describing that
when she did studies and she interviewed this generation and said,
what is the word to describe you? One word? It
was not friendly, loving, generous, thoughtful. The word that was
(32:18):
most used was unique, all about the eye, the uniqueness
of and I thought that was very telling. And it's
difficult to make a friendship if you're focused on your
uniqueness and not focused out into the universe, which is
what I didn't know we were doing because I was
(32:41):
from the generation whose parents didn't pay attention to them.
And by the way, I perfectly fine parents. Don't let me.
I'm not going to slag off my parents here on
my podcast and be like, oh, they're horrible, you know
what I mean. They were parents, but they didn't pay attention.
They didn't know my friends names. I mean, one of
my best girlfriends to my mother, you know, five years
(33:02):
before my mother died, she would go up to and
go ahn it it's Debbie Oppenheimer, Jamie's best friend. I mean,
you know, my parents just didn't know my people. And
so I think our generation, my generation. Again, I'm older
than you, guys, was to say, I'm going to pay
attention to everything. I'm gonna watch every move you make.
(33:23):
I'm going to look at every drawing you make and say, oh,
look at that drawing. And it's just it was too
much of a reaction to my upbringing. And now I
think because I've seen you guys as parents, and I've
also seen this new generation where I think people are
(33:44):
starting to look outwards. What you were talking about Smith
about social media, where if people are so afraid of
their brand and they can't be open because they're afraid
of losing something, then that's that's not friendship. Yeah. So
I just remember when I was a kid. I feel
(34:04):
like I just started making ashtrays because at least get
used the things I made in art class, because otherwise
my mother was like, oh, it's great, you hold onto that.
My mother wasn't like, oh, you're gonna be an artist
when you grow up. She was like, yeah, when I
started making ashtrays, they got used. But I feel like
(34:25):
some of the some of these kids these days, they
just like I tweeted it the other day that I
was like, some of you all don't have siblings, and
it shows like someone needs to bully somebody. Do you
know what I mean? The only way that you like
Otherwise all these people think that they're like the smartest,
the funniest, the prettiest, the greatest, the And you're like,
(34:46):
someone needs to tell you, like somebody that loves you
needs to tell you that, Like that's not it. But
only your siblings can tell you hip because you know
they love you. You know it's coming from a nice place.
They're not just trying to like destroy you. But like,
maybe you're not Patassa, Maybe you're not the next you know, Einstein,
(35:08):
Maybe you're just you. And I think we kind of
that's what That's what friendship is, is telling you with
kindness and love, no something I'll get. If I'm a
good friend, We'll be right back with more good friend
After this quick break. We know each other. We have
(35:38):
now met each other, the three of us and other people,
and we are starting to really explore all those friendships.
It's how we know each other. And I used to
like honestly walk up to people and go, will you
be my friend? I have um people know I'm in recovery,
(35:58):
and you know, when I was early in recovery, and
I would see all of these best friends, you know,
celebrating each other and talking about how they used to
get wasted together and now they don't, and you know
how happy they all are. And there were a couple,
not a couple, not a romantic couple, but just a
best friends couple who both two women, who had both
(36:21):
gotten sober, and I was so lonely and didn't know
how to make friends in that in recovery. Um. I
don't know if it was I felt separate because I
was famous, and whatever it was, whatever was there, I was.
(36:41):
And I actually called them both and said, can we be?
Can I be friends with you guys? Which is to
me the sort of delicate underbelly of friendship that is
so crucial, which is why I think we all feel
very close to each other there, even though we all
(37:02):
haven't known each other that long. I feel like you
guys are my good friends. And it's because of that vulnerability, um,
which I think comes which is a component of friendship. Um,
what would you think of that? Cassan, let me just
throw this in there, but no, no, you throw anything
(37:22):
you want. I just she was looking kind of pensive,
so I didn't know it felt like she had something
to say, but go I was thinking this the other day,
separate from this podcast situation, like how grateful I am
that I get to be your friend. Like you're honestly
like one of the kindest, most generous, caring, thoughtful, Like
(37:46):
you know, like every now and then I'll just, you know,
open the mailbox and there's something from your address. And
I opened it up and it's it's a nameplate of
my new dog. That like, I mean, they need to
have a nameplate on their great but they don't, and
they do, Samantha, But but exactly, like you're just always
(38:07):
so kind and so sweet and so thoughtful and like
you know things that it's and you have a full life.
You're busy, You're you have a home, you have all this,
you have this new my hand and your business, you're
doing this podcast, You're you're literally one of the busiest
person people. You're one of the busiest people I know,
(38:29):
and you find the time to do that. I am
doing absolutely fall And I comparely, I gave Cassandra a
card for for Valentine saying and she's like, yo, you
didn't write anything on it. I was like, real nice, sup,
Do you know what I mean? Like nothing but time
on my hands, and there you are, just juggling plates
(38:49):
and okay, okay, well, I'll edit all that I want.
But I'm saying, that's very sweet of you. But it's
because I've also shown you my delicate underbelly, because I
have extended my hand to you and said, will you
be my friend? When we first met, I walked up
(39:09):
to you and hugged you. I was terrified. You were terrified.
That's fine, but it's kind of you just a hug whatever,
that's fine, and I understand that now and now I
approach much more carefully. And now we can't hug anyway.
We can't even look at each other. I'm surprised that
we've we still know each other, because you know the restrictions.
(39:31):
But to me, it's that delicate underbelly. It's that real
sense of you know, I marry people, and I have
married people, and I use the marriage ceremony that Chris
and I were married under written by a woman from
(39:53):
the Judson Church in New York, a woman named Lee
Hancock is no longer here um, but she was reverend
and she married us. And in the ceremony she says,
you have chosen each other to combat the loneliness of
human existence, that you have come together to do that,
(40:13):
to combat it, to be each other's out, you know,
to be an ally. And so I do feel that
the loneliness of human existence, the vulnerability of human beings
is really ultimately what is connecting us all, even though
as you said, we're all sort of busy and have
ideas and talents. Really it is that. So that's to me,
(40:34):
the real connective tissue here, Cassandra, what are you going
to say you had an idea? Well, I think that
recovery that we have in common, and really the ability
to be vulnerable and open and trust each other is
(40:56):
what creates that long lasting bond. As long as you
have that trust, like that whole thing of you know,
trust makes everything simpler and you're not trying to navigate
like what do you want from me? And what am I?
What is the transaction here? And it's about we authentically
(41:23):
want connection and just to be able to really be seen.
I don't think that that friendship is real unless there
is that vulnerability and trust. Um. I've had a lot
of friendships or relationships that we're not built on trust
(41:50):
that you know, you you you spoke about cutting people
out of your of your lives or of your life,
and you know that's I'm also a person and I
know you as well, and Samantha certainly being a LEO
that really values loyalty. And I struggled with that for
(42:14):
a long time of how can I cut this person
off if I am loyal mhm um. And so I
would continue to engage in these sort of dysfunctional, unhealthy
relationships largely just because they were not built on trust,
and it was very you know that they're all very
(42:36):
transactional in an unhealthy way. And until I recognized that,
you know, cutting someone off or creating healthy boundaries don't
have trust or authentic connection is actually the most respectful
thing that you can do in that relationship. And that
(43:01):
conflict we we learned from. You know, I think I
had a I had a really close friend um that
passed away. I wasn't very good at saying no, so
I would often say yes to everything and then I
would flake just not show up or you know, canceled
(43:26):
the last minute or little things like that. And he
sat me down once and he said, you know, this
is this is this is not a real friendship. That
you don't value my time and that you are always
(43:47):
you know, not not showing up or flaking and it's
okay to say no, but say no. And and I
I always remember that because it's like that's the thing
about build being built on built on trust, Like you
can have healthy boundaries or you're not available for someone,
(44:11):
or you can't do something for someone, as long as
you are clear about it and why. And then I
think that you have this mutual respect that you can
rely on one another. And then I think, you know,
if if someone isn't isn't ready to have a healthy
relationship that is authentic or or you know they can
(44:35):
trust you, then you know you can. They may they
may come back around. But in my experience, it's it's
it's been really important to me to either create boundaries
or end relationships if they feel like, you know, unhealthy,
that we're sucking each other's energy. And I always say
(44:59):
the there's that that Oprah, you know, she she talks
a lot about how she's so concerned about the energy
that she puts out into the room, and then she
also realized that she needs to be very concerned with
the energy that she allows in her space. And her
orbit in her field, and that there's so many energy
(45:21):
suckers out there and you don't even really know why.
But I think with I think that you know, I
recognize that a lot. Now. I can recognize that pretty
quickly now versus before when I would have I had
a lot of you know, inauthentic relationships, friendships, business relationships,
(45:43):
and I just at a certain point I just wasn't
I didn't want to have that anymore. But yeah, I
mean I think that that's certainly the experience that I
know Samantha's had with you and I've had with you
and the other sort of friends that we have in comment. Yeah,
it's we really can can trust each other. And you know,
(46:07):
I get such energy from you and from Samantha, UM,
and I really recognize that, Like I can recognize that
you're around people often sometimes people you know that you
work with or that are your friends or family that
you're around all the time, and you know, taking the
(46:27):
time to say, hey, am I getting energy from this person?
Am I giving energy to this person? Um? Is just
life changing And it takes time. I mean that's you know,
I'm impatient, so I want everything, you know, I am
that and me. You know, I I saw Chris's picture,
(46:48):
I said, I'm going to marry him. And I married him,
like it's so fast, and you know it's thirty six
years later. I've started to go, oh, oh, interesting, that's
who you are. You know, I don't. I'm learning to
take time. I remember, you're gonna laugh at me. Um
but a Violet Gray approved person Michelle Peiffer. When Michelle
(47:13):
was a young actress, I did the same thing. I
called her because we were in competition. Not that I
ever got those jobs, but you know what I mean,
Like we were in competition always. Her name was always
on every casting sheet that I was ever up for. Always,
(47:34):
And I called her and said, can we be friends
so that we're not enemies, because I don't want to
hate you. And if I know you are not gonna
hate you if you get the part. If I don't
know you, you're gonna remain this unreachable foe and you're not.
(47:58):
You're I'm guest seeing You're a decent person. And I'm
getting you, know I I I maybe that's the beginnings
of even me starting a podcast was during COVID, you know,
where I was alone with my husband a lot. I
did start to really wonder about friendship and how important
(48:22):
it is to me to others. And you can't get
there without saying, here's my hand, will you hold it?
Will you allow me? And allow you in? And you
know I could say, you guys were like whatever, we
(48:45):
can all create the reasons why you wouldn't want to
be my friend. It's just human nature. We're gonna go
oh or not. You know, I don't like moisturizer enough
until now. Um, but do you know what I mean?
Like your run a beauty business. I'm I don't where
literally anything on my face, so I didn't think I
(49:06):
would be able. But you're so not somebody in the
beauty business. I mean, look at you. I mean that
I'm not. You aren't a painted person. You're not a
fake painted person. You I'm you know, you're in the
music business. I'm not. I listen to music every single
day from the moment I wake up till the moment
(49:29):
I go to sleep, there's music playing. But I'm not
a musician. I'm married a musician who practices his instrument,
you know, all day long, every day. And I would
be like, well, how could I relate? But the truth is.
I'm so completely relate to you, Samantha. We're all just
humans and what we do or or or it still
(49:50):
comes up. You sent me this is it, Jose Young Goazalez,
Leaf Cave or leaf. You sent me that. Uh loved it,
like you would gift the song as opposed to just
sending a link. I didn't know how to do any
of that. I've only now understand you can send it.
I seriously, I like to buy it same. I like
(50:13):
to support artists. I'd like to pay for it as well,
like you have my money. Um, but you know, you connect,
you know when you're a kid or you're an adolescent.
You know, we all bond over people we hate or things,
you know what I mean. They're like that that that
felt like so many of my friendships were like when
(50:33):
you're young and you're like a party, I hate her too,
let's be best friend and like and then news to say,
those those friendships don't necessarily last because maybe the only
thing you have in common is that you hate that
other person but you which is really just jealousy of
that other person probably or just some some you know,
(50:55):
attached thing about that other person, not justified. But but
when you make friendships with people over things that you
love or like in common, then that's generally a better
way to start a friendship because it's by putting sharing
light as opposed to darkness. And I feel like so
many friendships that I have when I was young were
(51:15):
like just based on like we both hate that person,
but like that's it, and that is not enough to
start a friendship. But you know, when you when you
said you wanted to be friends in the shelf fiber,
it's so much more fun to root for people. It's
you know, you you want to to have that. I
love having friends that that I can get excited for
(51:38):
and be happy for. There's there's enough in the world.
Like it's nice to just find the things that you
love in common. And that's really that's enough for me. Yeah,
I think my relationship with Carol is you know, not
to like rank different relationships in my life, but I
(52:00):
think it's it's it's such an important relationship that I
have this best friend that we can talk every day,
multiple times a day, and then sometimes go you know,
three or four months without talking, but we're always connected.
(52:22):
We've always been connected this this whole time, and I'm
so grateful for that relationship because you know, through throughout
everything she's just she's she's been there, and it doesn't
have the threat of a romantic relationship. You know, romantic
relationship there's always a threat of that person may not
(52:44):
be in love with you anymore and then they're gone.
So basically you write your friendship with Carola bobars Well,
it's just different, but it's like it's not as, it's
not as vulnerable because there's not that romantic piece, which
is a whole world of its own. Two. I was
talking about exposing that delicate underbelly. That's exposing a whole
(53:07):
other delicate underbelly of ourselves to someone else. Yeah, and
I think that, you know, a lot of a lot
of times I'll speak to two women usually, but men too,
and especially during the pandemic, where if they're not with someone,
they're so lonely and they think that they need, you know,
(53:28):
a romantic relationship versus a friendship. People don't seek out
friendships in the same way that they seek out this
romantic relationship that they think they should have. Jamie does, well,
Jamie's is an exception, but typically, I mean, you know,
I think that seek seeking out a friendship. Pursuing a
(53:50):
friendship is it's so it's so courageous and it can
be me so much more meaningful than a Roman antick relationship.
I mean like Bumble, you know, Bumble of course, Bumble
the dating app. I don't know, Well, there's a Lost
says of course, like yeah, James donal us. They advertise everywhere.
(54:16):
I mean, I don't know how you don't notice that. Okay,
So Bumble. You know there's a there's a handful of
dating sites, Tender, Bumble. Now I've heard about Tender, I've
heard about Matching, and Bumble has met. You know, they
have a division that is about finding friends, like it's
(54:36):
it's like BFF or something, which I thought was you know,
just telling of the time that we live in as people,
you know, young people particularly, I find that they're not
as set on okay I'm going to you know, grow
up and and and meet someone and fall in love
and get married. Um. You know, they value other platonic
(55:01):
relationships also as being ant So the algorithm that they
use is based on your likes and interests, and it's
very similar to the dating apps, except there's not sex involved.
It's I'm looking for a friend who I will then
build a friendship with. Wow, that's fascinating. I've never heard that. Um, well,
(55:22):
thank you ladies. I've enjoyed this so much I could
I could continue this for another couple of hours. Um,
but this is what this is about. It's exploring friendship,
you know, in all aspects, and you both have brought
such interesting insights. Both of you have completely dropped some
big thought bombs on us the listener, and I will
(55:44):
think about all of them, and UM, you know, it's
it's an undefined world about friendship and we're trying to
explore it and not define it but sort of give
it different aspects, and you guys have brought a really
interesting perspective to it. So on behalf of my listener.
I like to believe I have one, like I'm just
(56:06):
I try not to be like Hubricy and think like
I I got a lot of them. So I would
like to thank my one listener that I know of
for sure? Are you saying you're two listeners? So now
I have three, and so now we're strong. We're three strong.
But on behalf of my listeners. Um, thank you, Cassandra
Gray and Samantha Ronson for being good friends and God
(56:30):
bless everyone listening, and stay safe and make good choices,
don't and don't smoke cigarettes. There you go, all right
piece everybody. Good Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and
(56:57):
is a production of my Heart Radio. Our theme song,
good Friend is written, produced, and performed by Emily King.
Don't Already ate it from a good friend, Don't already
(57:21):
ate it from a good friend. For more podcasts from
my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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